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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let

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Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode

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Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you

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Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. It's sports. We're doing touchdown

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Speaker 1: five yard penalty that the Angels have become the Mariners,

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Speaker 1: a body checking. Uh yep, this is the sports episode.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to It could happen here your favorite sportscast. I'm

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Speaker 1: not the host of this episode, but I'm talking for

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Speaker 1: some reason. Uh, James and Chris, why are we talking

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Speaker 1: about sports? To distract us from the crumbling of society

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Speaker 1: around us, but more specifically to talk about how sports

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Speaker 1: I used to laund other reputations of dictatorial regimes. And

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Speaker 1: I know Chris has got some interesting stuff on Balsonaro's

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Speaker 1: Brazil and sports. This is this is this has before that? Sorry, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I should measure this. This is okay, like this is

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Speaker 1: this is this is this is some wonderful pt era

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Speaker 1: of vintage crimes. Oh good stuff. Okay, I love a

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Speaker 1: Brazilian crime, no matter what the vintage. So I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to learn about how the NFL legitimizes the military police

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Speaker 1: state anyway. Um ye. And it's not even football, is it.

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Speaker 1: So multiple things they're doing wrong. I want to talk

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Speaker 1: first about like the original incidence of what we're going

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Speaker 1: to call sports washing, because everyone else calls it sports

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Speaker 1: washing too, So it's like using these big global mega

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Speaker 1: events to launder the reputation of a pretty reste of

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Speaker 1: all regime. So the o g instance of this is

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Speaker 1: the nineteen thirty six Olympics, which were held in Berlin.

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Speaker 1: You'll probably familiar with who was in charge in Berlin.

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Speaker 1: It was the Nazis. That's a spoiler, and the Anazis

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Speaker 1: were actually given the Olympics. The Olympics were given to

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Speaker 1: Biby Germany, which was considerably less ship than the Nazis,

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Speaker 1: but the Nazis took them on and they're really round

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Speaker 1: with them. And lots of the symbology that we associate

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Speaker 1: with the Olympics today, that the raising of flags during

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Speaker 1: the medal ceremony, the playing of national anthems. The parade

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Speaker 1: of flags are, the opening ceremony, the torch relay. The

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Speaker 1: torch relay goes from o g Olympia in Greece to

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Speaker 1: wherever the Olympics are being held. It's it's this big

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Speaker 1: ceremonial thing, right, that all of these things were created

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Speaker 1: by its guy called Carl D. M who was a Nazi,

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Speaker 1: to draw stronger links between the Nazi Party and the

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Speaker 1: ancient Greeks and position the Nazis the inheritors of this

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Speaker 1: classical legacy, right, and the civilized people in the barbaric world,

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Speaker 1: like the Greeks saw themselves. And obviously the Olympics, if

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Speaker 1: you aren't familiar, draws its legacy from a largely mythical

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Speaker 1: construct of a games that did actually happen in ancient Greek. Right,

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Speaker 1: so they claimed to be like a reconstruction of this

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Speaker 1: Greek tradition, except in the Greek truition everyone was naked,

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Speaker 1: which I think would make the Olympics much more watchable.

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Speaker 1: We could, yeah, it's that is. I would watch the

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Speaker 1: male gymnastics way more, not just naked but oiled. Yeah, honestly,

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Speaker 1: men's men's swimming would be a lot more interesting yes,

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Speaker 1: it would yep, naked Olympics, we can get behind. But

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Speaker 1: they didn't bring that back. Nazi didn't bring that back.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have some naked statues, but they weren't big

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Speaker 1: into nudity. But they fused a whole lot of fashy

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Speaker 1: eugenic shit. Right, So the reason that they started having

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Speaker 1: these medal tables was very much to reinforce their idea

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Speaker 1: of the superiority of one race over other races. Right.

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Speaker 1: Didn't really work out for them in the nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: six because Jesse Owens turned up and owned them lots

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Speaker 1: of different events and c into being of course of

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Speaker 1: black American sprinter and long jumper, and it didn't well.

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Speaker 1: The Natietics Olympics did exist to did help significantly in

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Speaker 1: laundering the Nazi image. They hit away a lot of

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Speaker 1: their bullshit, like they for instance, like all the Nazi

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Speaker 1: Party newspapers like weren't distributed for the time that foreigners

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Speaker 1: were in the country. Right, they hit away anti Semitic slogans.

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Speaker 1: They even had a Jewish woman on the German Olympic team,

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Speaker 1: because there was lots of sort of fluster and and

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Speaker 1: sort of they're like neoliberal liberal complaining I guess about like, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: you're being anti Semitic, or you shouldn't. Oh look there's

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Speaker 1: a Jewish person on your team. It's fine. You guys

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Speaker 1: are great. You guys aren't anti Semitic at all. It's good.

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Speaker 1: We're sorted. And the US did nearly boycott the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: but they decided not to, and that this guy called

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Speaker 1: every brandage who went on to be a p of

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Speaker 1: ship of some right now, So like this Olympics, I

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Speaker 1: guess set the tone for the use of these massive

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Speaker 1: events to put on a show to the world and

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Speaker 1: bring the world's press and show them what you want

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Speaker 1: them to see and hide the stuff that you don't

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Speaker 1: want them to see, which I think is a nice

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Speaker 1: transition to talking about Brazil. Yeah, so we'll talk sort

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Speaker 1: of about that effective it. Their sports has a second

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Speaker 1: sort of incredibly important internal political effect, which is that

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Speaker 1: when when when you have a sports thing that's large enough,

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Speaker 1: like when you have you know, like we have a

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Speaker 1: World Cup, you have the Olympics, show up, you have

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Speaker 1: even to something the super Bowl, like you what what

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Speaker 1: What it basically creates is this like like it basically

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Speaker 1: creates a temporary sort of state of state of exception

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Speaker 1: where just like the sort of sort of normal function

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Speaker 1: of society stops, right, and you know that this can

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Speaker 1: going this and going a number of different ways, like

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Speaker 1: I and anyone wh's ever lived in Philadelphia, like, okay,

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Speaker 1: there there's a version of this in Philly where like

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Speaker 1: after after the Eagles win, like for like fifteen hours,

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Speaker 1: there are no laws like or like when they just

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Speaker 1: killed like thirty people, yeah, well like a hundred, Yeah

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Speaker 1: it was a ye, yes, yeah, I think yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you got ahead of the sports for killing tons of people.

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Speaker 1: I think that likely to blame where the cops were sports.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, but that, but this, this is the

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Speaker 1: thing about sports, right, is that in order to sort

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Speaker 1: of like do security blah blah blah blah, blocks and etcetera,

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Speaker 1: in order to make sure the game's worked, you can

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Speaker 1: do fucking anything. Yes, right, justified. Its nasty as ship. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And you know what, one of one of the things,

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Speaker 1: one of the sort of like examples that I wanted

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Speaker 1: to talk about about this happening is one that is

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Speaker 1: really not talked about that much, which is the two

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Speaker 1: fourteen World Cup in Brazil, which wound up I think

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Speaker 1: actually having a pretty big impact on the way Brazilian

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Speaker 1: politics went and also just destroying the lives of unfathomable

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Speaker 1: numbers of people. So okay, so this whole thing, like

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Speaker 1: I've been in like since it's happening to us fourteen.

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Speaker 1: It's been in the works since like Lula was in

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Speaker 1: office in like the late twenty like late late two

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Speaker 1: thousand's right, Um, this is this is like this is

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Speaker 1: like one of this is like one of the workers

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Speaker 1: parties like big things is that they're they're they're they're

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Speaker 1: going to have this World Cup. Um, they've taken a

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Speaker 1: ship ton of corporate money to do it. They've taken

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Speaker 1: you know, they've they've they've spent they spent enormous amount

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Speaker 1: of political capital making sure this is gonna happen, and

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Speaker 1: the consequences of it are just like astronomic. Something like

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Speaker 1: two d fifty thousand people like lost their homes in

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Speaker 1: order to like make way for like the fucking stadiums

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Speaker 1: and the fields and like all of the sort of

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Speaker 1: like bullshit around like all the sort of security, theater stuff,

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Speaker 1: all of like just like debate. Yeah, and this is

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Speaker 1: something that happens with Olympics, is to more famously, but

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Speaker 1: like when whenever you have a sports event like this,

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Speaker 1: there's just this giant cleansing that happens of like anyone

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Speaker 1: who's like onto the street, who's homeless, right, anyone who's

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Speaker 1: just sort of like doesn't look right, particularly anyone who's

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Speaker 1: black just sort of like suddenly is like disappeared by

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Speaker 1: the police from this area. Um. But this, this this

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Speaker 1: particular one in in in Brazil was interesting because this

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Speaker 1: is happening to just in fourteen, so and she doesn't thirteen,

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Speaker 1: they were like enormous protests in Brazil and actually there

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Speaker 1: there's been another like set of soccer events there in thirteen,

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Speaker 1: like something like eight hundred thousand people were in the

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Speaker 1: streets across Brazil like protesting it. But yeah, there there's

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Speaker 1: these like there's enormous street movements. Is like like six

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Speaker 1: percent of the entire Brazilian population was in the streets. Um.

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Speaker 1: They were like basically started as sort of like antiosterity

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Speaker 1: protests because cities were sort of like we're increasing the

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Speaker 1: price of like fairish first off, and it gets it

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Speaker 1: gets the just get kind of weird very quickly because

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, so like you have the workers

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Speaker 1: party in power right and like that the Workers Party

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Speaker 1: has been sort of sliding right by this point. But

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Speaker 1: you have a sort of like you have like a

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Speaker 1: really bilitant left that's industry. You have a bunch of anarchis,

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Speaker 1: you have a bunch of autonomist or sort of like

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Speaker 1: doing stuff. But then also right wingers start showing up

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Speaker 1: because it's a protest against the governments and the government's

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Speaker 1: like nominally a left government. And yeah, this leads to

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Speaker 1: just a really confusing stative affairs. But but you know

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Speaker 1: the next year, this like and the protest like keep

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Speaker 1: going for like a long time, and there's still like

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Speaker 1: even after like the largest ones are kind of pee

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Speaker 1: doing out, there's still protests happening. But when the World

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Speaker 1: Cup hits, like the World Cup, is that like is

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Speaker 1: one of this sort of like like the arth, like

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Speaker 1: the law suddenly doesn't work anymore. Like in orders to

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Speaker 1: do this, you have to sign like there's something called

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Speaker 1: the General Law of the World Cup, which is like

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Speaker 1: a bunch of like laws that you have to sign

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Speaker 1: it like physically change what you're calls are like in

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Speaker 1: order to have this event magnificent. I mean that's actually

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Speaker 1: that's actually great, you should do more of that. The

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Speaker 1: great thing about FIFA is that they've sharing a commitment

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Speaker 1: to human rights, to quality and democracy, and so I'm

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Speaker 1: sure there's rules are good rules, and you know so

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Speaker 1: so there are fun things like like it literally like

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Speaker 1: parts of the Brazilian constitution are suspended parts like well

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Speaker 1: so physically a bunch stuff about the right to strike,

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Speaker 1: Like there's a special court that's set up that like

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Speaker 1: it like that within forty eight hours, like like decide

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Speaker 1: on whether it's strike is legal or not and what

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Speaker 1: the thing is going to be. Like that's not very good.

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Speaker 1: It's really they're all not real very bad. Like like

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Speaker 1: there's there's the Brazilian governments like seventy million dollars buying

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Speaker 1: basically police equipment and like from the U S. From

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Speaker 1: Germany and from Israel, which is like the holy trinity

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Speaker 1: of good normal countries where if you're buying shipped from them,

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Speaker 1: you're doing a good thing. See I you were going

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Speaker 1: to talk about how you know, there's moments in our

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Speaker 1: society where the regular rules of engagement are suspended, and

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Speaker 1: in such we can use this moment of extra opportunity

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Speaker 1: to find new ways of liberatory of experiencing liberatory freedom.

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Speaker 1: People tried that, and and and and instead of a

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Speaker 1: bunch of literally like they were driving tanks through the

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Speaker 1: street like into like like blockading off like roads leading

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Speaker 1: out of the favelas with tanks like it was. It

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Speaker 1: was nuts, like some incredible videos of this time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there are like laws in Brazil about child labor, right, um,

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Speaker 1: guess what doesn't apply to FIFA, so you can just

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Speaker 1: so they can have fucking ball boys, they said, they

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Speaker 1: also have they have these. There are twenty thousand people

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Speaker 1: who are working for this event who are who are

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Speaker 1: classified as volunteers. You can just use them as basically

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Speaker 1: they started doing slave labor. Yeah, what's the what's the shocking? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, are they forced into this or do they

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Speaker 1: actually volunteer? Kind of Okay, so sometime the actual you

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Speaker 1: know what it's actual slavery because it's it's not actual Okay,

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Speaker 1: so the Brazilian government will do actual slavery, but like

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Speaker 1: this is yeah, this is not quite that, but it's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of people who are kind of its volunteering. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, who have who have no labor rights, like

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Speaker 1: and the everything happens is there's there there are enormous crackdowns,

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Speaker 1: like they just start they start doing the thing that

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Speaker 1: like the US does it too, but I think I

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Speaker 1: think like Canada, this is more than the US where

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Speaker 1: it's like when when when they know a protest is

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Speaker 1: about to happen, they like go find the like six

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Speaker 1: people who they think are protest leaders and just arrest

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Speaker 1: them beforehand. They started doing that. They there's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people who get tortured. There's a bunch of like

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Speaker 1: the police are basically just going ape shit. They like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they there are some like that. There's a point in

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Speaker 1: this where like the garbage workers go on strike and

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Speaker 1: they actually win because it turns out that if if

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the World Cup there's fucking garbage

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Speaker 1: piling up on the street, like it's really bad. But

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Speaker 1: like yeah, like this has like this has a just

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Speaker 1: like absolutely disastrous effect on like just just sort of

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Speaker 1: what's like everything is going on president in politics like

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Speaker 1: um one of the things that Lula does. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about this more in another Brazil episode, but Lula

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Speaker 1: like sent a bunch of Brazilian troops to invade haiti Um,

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Speaker 1: which fucking sucks, and then those troops came home and

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Speaker 1: they were used to occupy the favelas in real well

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Speaker 1: this was going on, and this kind of crushed like

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Speaker 1: what was left of the sort of left that had

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Speaker 1: been in the streets. Like they just got like they

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Speaker 1: just got they just got stomped because the Brazilian police

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Speaker 1: are on terrifying and like literally they're deploying colonial troops

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Speaker 1: like in the streets, and yeah, and so so this

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Speaker 1: this is a sort of second kind of thing that

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Speaker 1: you can get with sports, which is like on the

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Speaker 1: one hand they're used to sort of whitewasherzimes and on

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Speaker 1: the other hand they're used as as basically a way

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Speaker 1: to like do fascism inside of the state where you

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Speaker 1: can you know, like you can you could do a

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Speaker 1: state of exception, right like the law seas to exist,

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Speaker 1: the state becomes like this entity that can just sort

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Speaker 1: of like do whatever it wants in order to preserve itself.

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Speaker 1: And it's a way that you can just you know,

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Speaker 1: you can socially cleanse two people, and which is something

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Speaker 1: that would be like you know, would genuinely be pretty

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Speaker 1: difficult if you try to do this in any other circumstance,

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Speaker 1: but you know, it's it's sports, so you can just

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Speaker 1: basically do ethnic cleansings, and yeah, it sucks as sometimes

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Speaker 1: you can do it with the support of the other side.

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Speaker 1: Like the World Cup. It's coming to Qatar, right and

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Speaker 1: and they one of the things is happening against it's

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Speaker 1: quote unquote security consultants from the participating nations are coming.

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Speaker 1: So you have this like incredible situation where like a

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Speaker 1: the Qatari and like police chief I believe, has been like, hey,

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Speaker 1: for your own safety, fans, if you do happen to

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Speaker 1: be gay and it's illegal to be gay right in Qatar.

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Speaker 1: Like just guys, just don't hold hands with your partner

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Speaker 1: because it's not us who's going to come and beat

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Speaker 1: you up. It's it's the regular qataris right like you,

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Speaker 1: you won't be safe and we can't protect you from

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Speaker 1: their violent homophobia. And then we've got like Britain's sending

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Speaker 1: soldiers to be like, yeah, let us help you with

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Speaker 1: your security consultations. Guys, you we need to keep this

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Speaker 1: country safe. Oh god, okay, so did you do you

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Speaker 1: know what else those violent security consultations? Is it? Britain? Yes? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we were now sponsored by the Nation of Britain help

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Speaker 1: better help online counseling. If you don't sign up for therapy,

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Speaker 1: a military a military team will break through your windows

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Speaker 1: and force you to go to therapy with that's that is,

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Speaker 1: that is the better health guarantee. And we're back. And

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Speaker 1: I am not thinking about the people who I know

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Speaker 1: who were physically dragged by cops in the therapy. It's great,

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Speaker 1: it's a great never happened. Never happened. No one's ever

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Speaker 1: been forced to go to therapy non consensually. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: have Yeah. Yeah, other things that don't happen include include sports. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sports aren't real. Their fingment of our imagination if we

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Speaker 1: simply the ontology of sports is fatally flawed. One might

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Speaker 1: say that's sports for a way of teaching people to

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Speaker 1: be complying with rules and to be administrators in the

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Speaker 1: colonial empire. Or people can argue that sports offer a

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Speaker 1: gamified version of the world that allow you to recognize

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Speaker 1: problem solving in fun and creative ways and encourage team

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Speaker 1: building so that you have join online squad. I don't

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Speaker 1: actually like sports very much. On the other hand, do

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Speaker 1: quite like sports, but I'm aware of the role they play. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so this is like a big thing that the Gulf

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Speaker 1: States do. Um is particularly lead do this sports bullshit,

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Speaker 1: and Carter, I think, usually is smarter about it than

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Speaker 1: like Carter just has better pr people in the Saudias do.

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Speaker 1: And I mean they're they're slightly helped by the fact

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Speaker 1: that they are marginally less bad than Saudi Arabia, like

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Speaker 1: marginal like this is a this is this is a

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Speaker 1: this is a fucking a bar that is so low

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Speaker 1: you can trip over it. Like I think we can

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Speaker 1: just say both bad. Yeah, So should we talk about

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Speaker 1: the Catholic system a little bit? Okay, So the Gulf

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Speaker 1: States have this thing called the catholicis now and there

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Speaker 1: have been some alterations to it and something that made

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Speaker 1: it less bad in the last few years, but basically

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Speaker 1: this is the system that lets Okay, So there's a

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of mirket workers, particularly from Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 1: that like take jobs in the Gulf because they pay

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Speaker 1: they have the Gulf States have a like an obscene, fanatical,

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Speaker 1: like world rending amount of oil money um and so

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Speaker 1: people you know, come seeking these jobs because they need

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Speaker 1: to feed their families, and you know, there's a huge

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Speaker 1: amount of oil money here, like they have just every

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Speaker 1: petro dollar. Um. But the way this labor system basically

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Speaker 1: works is that like in order to like be in

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Speaker 1: the country, you have to have a job, right you like,

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Speaker 1: you like very specifically have to have a job, and

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Speaker 1: your employer has to be there. And so very very

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Speaker 1: bad things start to happen when you have a group

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Speaker 1: of people who you can just like instantly destroy the

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Speaker 1: life of. And so these will happen where for example,

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Speaker 1: like so you okay, so you show up, you show

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Speaker 1: up to Carter right, and your boss will just take

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Speaker 1: your fucking passport and it's is gone, right, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like okay, if if you don't do literally everything

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Speaker 1: they tell you, like you, you're not gonna get your

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Speaker 1: hasbro back. You're just fucked. And this creates a like

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Speaker 1: a genuinely like very close to slavery, has a lot

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Speaker 1: of the fucking horrors. Like you, there have been a

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Speaker 1: bunch of stories people like fucking jumping out of buildings

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Speaker 1: trying to escape and then like being dragged back. Like

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Speaker 1: it's fucking horrifying labor conditions. Um, it's and it's not

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Speaker 1: not indentured serviceude, Yeah, absolutely is. It's yeah, it is

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Speaker 1: it is one of the worst. It's it's one of

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Speaker 1: the worst labor regimes on earth that is not literally slavery.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is. It is in the category of

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Speaker 1: technically not slavery, but like very horrificly close. Yeah, it is.

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Speaker 1: It is. It is one of the worst things that

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Speaker 1: exists a serious and genuine solution to if you want

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Speaker 1: to solve like a bunch of the problems of all

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Speaker 1: of the all ship that's happening in the Gulf region,

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Speaker 1: if you gave every single one of these migrant workers

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Speaker 1: like several artillery batteries and a bunch of assault rifles

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Speaker 1: like instantly, like so many of the problems of this

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Speaker 1: region would be solved. Yeah. So I was just looking

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Speaker 1: at statistics. Six thousand, five hundred of these workers have

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Speaker 1: died in cutter since it was awarded the World Cup.

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Speaker 1: Like that's that's uh, that's that's a pretty alarming um

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Speaker 1: number of Like so it's from India, Bangladesh, ne poll

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Speaker 1: for Lanka prices like that, right, I think, Yeah, these

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Speaker 1: people have absolutely no rights and they have incredibly dangerous

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Speaker 1: working conditions. And also we got about like people are

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Speaker 1: super fucking racist, Like yes, like the it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: the kind of racism that you get when you have literally,

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Speaker 1: like basically pure absolute power over someone. It is a

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Speaker 1: it is a fucking trip. Yeah, people will literally have

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Speaker 1: to pay off the debts that they include. You'll pay

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Speaker 1: a recruitment trophee or a travel fee to get these jobs.

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Speaker 1: Like we're not messing around me, said the indentured sertitude. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's very hard to do that. Your your your

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Speaker 1: employees could just you know, like they can just withhold

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Speaker 1: your pay for whatever the fun reason, because yeah, because

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Speaker 1: it's absolute power. There's like a few should I read

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Speaker 1: this one? That's an example of one of these deaths

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Speaker 1: that I could read if we want so. This guy,

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Speaker 1: um mad Hubal Apoly I think his name. He's from India.

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Speaker 1: He was forty three. He left his wife and his

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Speaker 1: thirteen year old son, Rejesh in India to take a

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Speaker 1: job in catering, and they never saw him again. One

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Speaker 1: late night, when his roommate returned to his dorm, he

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Speaker 1: found Bullapai's body on the floor. Like thousands of other

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Speaker 1: sudden and unexplained death, it's passing was recorded his heart

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Speaker 1: failure due to natural causes despite working for his employer

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Speaker 1: for six years. His wife and son received a hundred

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Speaker 1: and fourteen thousand rupees it's about a thousand pounds about

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Speaker 1: a thousand dollars now as well in compensation and unpaid salary.

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Speaker 1: Jess had no idea why his father died. He had

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Speaker 1: no health problems. He said, there was nothing wrong with him. Yeah. Pretty,

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Speaker 1: there's I'll will link the Guardian story. But there are

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Speaker 1: dozens of these stories of people who die working in

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Speaker 1: extreme heat for long hours with no breaks and terrible conditions.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty terrible shit. Yeah, And a lot of these

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Speaker 1: And also, and this is the only thing we should

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Speaker 1: point out, is a lot a lot of people have

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Speaker 1: died directly building, yes, the stadium stadium, Yeah, which is

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Speaker 1: like just like the absolute human horror of why on

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Speaker 1: why are we using like why are we building a

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Speaker 1: giant fucking soccer stadium in the middle of like in

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Speaker 1: the fucking desert, Like, yeah, Jesus Christ, in a place

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Speaker 1: with no endemic soccer culture. It's not that the stadium

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Speaker 1: is like, you know, going to be packed week in

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Speaker 1: and week out with the Qatari Altra is doing tea

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Speaker 1: pots and ship like it just exists for people to

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Speaker 1: come once to watch this spectacle and then leave again.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's the same thing with all the Olympics stuff, right,

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Speaker 1: Like they like tank a city's economy to build a

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Speaker 1: whole like basically miniatured like village in town that then

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Speaker 1: becomes useless after like a month. Yeah, some of them

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Speaker 1: will just get turned into like I don't know, that's

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Speaker 1: what the Olympics are for. The Olympics are like a

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Speaker 1: gathering place for a transnational bourgeoilie and they have always

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Speaker 1: been there, right like they when they started for a

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Speaker 1: very long time, the Olympics had an amateurism clause, which

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Speaker 1: meant that like quote unquote, professional athletes couldn't take part,

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Speaker 1: which was designed such that like Boua, people who had

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Speaker 1: enough leisure time to train could compete, but working class

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Speaker 1: people who needed to take time off to train couldn't

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Speaker 1: be compensated for that time off. Right, they couldn't even

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Speaker 1: be compensated for their time off taken to travel and

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Speaker 1: compete at the Games. So like, the Olympics are doing

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Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do, which is is bringing these

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Speaker 1: elite people together. But Coca Cola benefits more from every

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Speaker 1: Olympics in the city that hosts it. Yeah, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean and obviously the the Olympics are heavily tied to nationalism.

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Speaker 1: Um that has a whole bunch of you know, not great.

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Speaker 1: A munch of the national symbology comes from the Nazis

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Speaker 1: directly like that, yeah, exactly, But also on the flip

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Speaker 1: side of that, there's other stuff like um have like

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Speaker 1: Taiwan having to compete compete as Chinese Taipei and not

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Speaker 1: use their actual flag, which is other Like, yes, the

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Speaker 1: alternative would be more, you know, embracing the country as

429
00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: like as a nationalist thing, like as it's as its

430
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: own nation. But still it's it is, it's still not

431
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: great that they can't they can't compete under their actual

432
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's like a name and yeah, and and

433
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,199
Speaker 1: and and you know, like and then this is like

434
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,240
Speaker 1: Carter's kind of Weirdly, this is slightly backfire on Carter

435
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: a little bit because, like Carter, Carter works the best

436
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,919
Speaker 1: as a sort of diplomatic power when nobody pays attention

437
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 1: to it. And then the like absolute funk brain geniuses

438
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: at the Gaitari role elite were like, what if we

439
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: fucking drew attention to ourselves? And that everyone was like, wait,

440
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: hold on, this place is fucked, but this has not

441
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: stopped it. FIFA is like maybe the only ruling sports

442
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: body more corrupt than the Olympic Committee. Like it is

443
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 1: is incredibly staggering, like a group of people who have

444
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: figured out a way to just like help a city

445
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: ethnically cleanse a bunch of its population and then extract

446
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: enormous amount of wealth and then look good while doing it. Yeah,

447
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: it is. It's it's an exercise and like pointing, pointing

448
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: over there while you steal someone's wallet, you know. Yeah,

449
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 1: So I think that the last thing I think we

450
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: want to talk about was talking about what the STA

451
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: Saudis have been doing this too, because yes, one of

452
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: the sport I'm most familiar with obviously is like cycling.

453
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 1: It's a sport I competed in, and it's recently seen

454
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 1: this influx of money from petrochemical states. Right, so we

455
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 1: have like you a E teen, We had a Dubuy

456
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: team for a while, and we there is like a

457
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: tour of Cuta and a tour of you buy Now

458
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,359
Speaker 1: that like these are not places ayone wants to go,

459
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: right about it? Right, they're hot, they're flat, they're terrible.

460
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 1: But like, bike races have always served as a way

461
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: to consolidate nations, right, That's why the Tour of France exists.

462
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 1: It's like it's literally a loop and being like, hey,

463
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 1: you're included in this, And like in in Europe, they're

464
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: often used to consolidate nations that exist outside of states,

465
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,919
Speaker 1: right like Flanders, Catalonia, the Basque country, Wallonia. All of

466
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: these places have bike races that delineate who belongs in

467
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 1: and who belongs out. Slightly different in these petrochemical economies,

468
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,920
Speaker 1: because more delineates a look at us, We're a great

469
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: country and totally normal, and you can come here and

470
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 1: do sports. And please don't look at the way that

471
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: we treat our workers from Southeast Asia like um, it's

472
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 1: it's please ignore our seventeen wars like all the school

473
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: bus full of children we've blown up. Do not look

474
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: at Yemens like yeah, which also, by the way, I

475
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: do want I do want to just put this room.

476
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: And Carter also fucking involved in Yemen. Same with the

477
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: u A. They nobody ever talks about it. They also

478
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: are fucking doing this. Do not left them off the

479
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: book for this bullshit. Uh, yeah, yeah, it's interesting to

480
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: see it. Like, yes, it's interesting to see some fan

481
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: groups organizing like against this ship, right And chiefly I

482
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: think it's gonna it's about stuff that you're about to

483
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: talk about, I think, which is the purchasing of clubs

484
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,119
Speaker 1: by these these very wealthy interests. I find it fascinating

485
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,919
Speaker 1: to see that there's always been an anti fascist element

486
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: in football actors, right, there have always been clubs that

487
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: have been anti fascists. Those clubs have always tended to

488
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 1: oppose like ownership of the clubs that they are fans

489
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 1: of by finance capital. But it's interesting to see that

490
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: now articulated against these petrochemical regimes in the Middle East, right,

491
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: Like it gets Keith from fucking Bolton and his mates

492
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: who go to the football match every Saturday, and now

493
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: I'm fucking past because I allow an lgbt Q rights

494
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: in Qatar. But yeah, it's it's very funny to see.

495
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,160
Speaker 1: And also it's nice to see, right, Like, it's good

496
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: to see people sharing so darity, like you can't display

497
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: in theory, you can't display pride flags in stadium or

498
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 1: anywhere else in Qatar right now, No people were talking

499
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 1: about taking them anyway, So maybe someone will do an

500
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 1: epic like Pride flag or TFO at the Olympics, which

501
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: would be uh, I don't know, I've never seen the

502
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: World Cup. Then they might all get disappeared. But yeah,

503
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,959
Speaker 1: then the entire with caution. Yeah, then then the stadium

504
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: collapses and there we go. Okay, So the other thing

505
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,199
Speaker 1: that's sort of been happening is that Starily has been

506
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,200
Speaker 1: buying up a bunch of clubs. But they brought Britain's

507
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: Premier League Newcastle United team. There's like bought it that

508
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: they have. They the Stardies have this this thing called

509
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: the Public Investment Fund, which is like it's kind of

510
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 1: like a sovereign wealth fund kind of. They just use

511
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 1: it to like it buy ship and they've they've been

512
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: doing a bunch of sports stuff. They've also been pushing

513
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: into the sports, which is interesting the disasters. Yeah, so

514
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: they bought the e s L, which is the does

515
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: it still stand for Electronic Sports League especially? I think

516
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: it's all does so there doesn't. Okay, you're about to

517
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: be a Biggert and say sports on sports. No, they're

518
00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: video games. It's better than actually better than regular sports.

519
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: They're different Chess the same ship is happening here. So

520
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: the E s L is like one of the it's

521
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 1: it's it basically ate a bunch of the other. So

522
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: they used to be a bunch of sort of circuits

523
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: for a bunch of different like E sports games, right,

524
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: things like kind of strikes seems like StarCraft. Um, those

525
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: are those sort of I think there's another. What's the

526
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 1: other big one that s L does. Um, seems to

527
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: be counts. Yeah, it's it's mostly kind of striking. They

528
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: basically consumed all of the like StarCraft, So they used

529
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 1: to be I M and dream Hack that dude stuff,

530
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: and they've eaten them all. And the E s L

531
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 1: just got like bought out by like like the Saudiast

532
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: fucking investment company, by and by by by a new

533
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: sort of like media group thing at the Saudiast Forum

534
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:12,800
Speaker 1: that's headed by fucking former Activision CEO Brian Ward. Actually unbelievable. Yeah,

535
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: who who's the guy who engineered the fucking Activision Blizzard

536
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: merger and is now going on to do this bullshit

537
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: savvy games group. Yeah, I mean, like like East Sports

538
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 1: as always, there's funds always sucked, Like a bunch of

539
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 1: the stuff is funded by like fucking cryptocurrency. Right now,

540
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: I think somehow sports I just can't take it seriously.

541
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: It's the best. But yeah, they the Saudis have taken

542
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 1: by beloved StarCraft League. I will be waging an unending

543
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: holy war against them until they fucking ceased to exist.

544
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: And yea, yeah, you become a stock craft too. Again,

545
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: it sucks. All I know about East Sports is Sonic

546
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 1: Fox and Smash Brothers. That's all I know because everything

547
00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: else just seems like people who are having a fun

548
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: time playing video games. That's great. It was very so

549
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 1: my my post was founded by the IOC and like

550
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,719
Speaker 1: at the time I was there, there was just massive

551
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 1: Like first of all, there was like a lot of

552
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: boom iss discussing av sports for sports and then whether

553
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: they should be incorporated in the Olympics, and it was

554
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: extremely funny to watch, like these people completely failed to

555
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: understand the fundamental like you know, sports of physical contest

556
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,440
Speaker 1: with the metal element, right, don't matter if you're moving

557
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: a thumbs or your whole buddy. But it was very

558
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: funny towards these people. I want to say this because

559
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: this is okay, so it's just really funny, but also

560
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: people get like really seriously injured doing the sports ship

561
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: like particularly Starkers. There's a lot of Starker players who

562
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,120
Speaker 1: like sucking paralyzed, who have like serious year damage of

563
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: their spines. Yeah, because they have like StarCraft players, like

564
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 1: especially older days. You know, people like practicing sixteen hours

565
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: a day, right, and they're sitting in a chair and

566
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: they're they're fucking you know, they have like a PM right,

567
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: so you're doing like like six hundred actions in a minute,

568
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: and people's people's risks just explore loads, Like people get

569
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: fucking like damage to their spines to get nerve damage

570
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: like as it sucks. Um. I have a friend who's

571
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: a human physiologist who used to work for the Department

572
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: of Defense here and said, diego helping like you know,

573
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: like high speed MB people be better at killing people,

574
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: uh a Navy people, I guess in San Diego, and

575
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: then left to work for Red Bull in their sports

576
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: to oh yeah, yeah, yeah, to be the human physiologist

577
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: who like, yeah, optimizes people set up so that they

578
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 1: arrested a right angle and like, guest, I'm actually training.

579
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: I guess we won't be happy until Taiwan is playing

580
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: Fortnite in a democratized, decentralized East Sports league that has

581
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: union workers and I guess that's what we're advocating for now. Yeah,

582
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: that's the one goal of this podcast. There is a

583
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: there's a MYANMA National Unity Government e sports team. So

584
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: actually that there was actually a whole thing in competitive

585
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: StarCraft where someone someone held up someone held up a

586
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: Hong Kong flag and they fucking like they cut the

587
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 1: stream and fired this actually fired the two like like

588
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: they not only fired the guy who held the thing up,

589
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: they fired the two fucking casters who like who were

590
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: just there. Well it happens. Yeah, so critical respect that

591
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: person is. See the John Carlos, that's the raised fist

592
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 1: moment of the sports Yeah. So yeah, fuck sports do

593
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 1: bad things, make them do good things. Overthrower local governments. Yeah,

594
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: I mean the the revolutionary I mean this is this

595
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 1: has been written about by like actual academics, but the

596
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 1: revolutionary but the revolutionary potential of like soccer hooligans and

597
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: football hooligans are like it's massive, Like on what one day,

598
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: We'll do one episode about the fucking the Turkish soccer

599
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: ultras who fucking stole a back hoe and we're driving

600
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: it around Turkey, doesn't thirty destroying fucking police barricades with it,

601
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: sick of ship every lots of like in Rear Square

602
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,760
Speaker 1: their Egyptian Ultras were leading in the Maidan it was

603
00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: Ukrainian Nottras. And there's a really good book called people

604
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,960
Speaker 1: should read if they're interested in the political potential of

605
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 1: football ultras. We should we should do something about like

606
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: hooligans in general. But yes, this was supposed to kind

607
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: of be about the various ways that there's sports things

608
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 1: that are kind of messed up. Yeah, maybe just regular

609
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: one more thing. You can stop these fucking giant mega

610
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 1: events from happening in your city, like people. People successfully

611
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: do this. They've done this with the Olympics, have done

612
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: this sub lesser sounds World Cup. But yeah, and if

613
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: you can do that, like please do like don't you

614
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 1: don't have to let these fucking sports company bullshit like

615
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: exacts ethnically cleanse your city. You just don't. You can stop.

616
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: No Olympics l A is something that people in the

617
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: U s should look up. Yeah, that is that is

618
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: your action item for today is look up. I think

619
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: we've talked about an Olympics before, but the ton Olympics.

620
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: On the podcasts I Think and the Last Thing I Will,

621
00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 1: I will give an Easter egg. There's there's one sport

622
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:05,759
Speaker 1: I actually un ironically enjoy curling. No, not fuck you,

623
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: You're racist racism. That's the episode Hello and Welcome to

624
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 1: It could happen here. It's a podcast about the world

625
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: falling apart and people who are putting it back together.

626
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: Today we're joined by Jimmy and Rain from mutually Disaster Relief.

627
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: They are helping to put back together some of the

628
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: parts of the world that are acutely falling apart right now.

629
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: My colleague Gare is here as well. I guess, and Yeah,

630
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna get into it. We're gonna talk

631
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 1: about the response that mutual A disaster relief have made

632
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 1: too hurricane Ian. We're going to talk about how we

633
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: can solve these things without necessarily giving a bunch of

634
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: money to the wrong people, and people can help people

635
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: in a way that is natural, organic and good for everyone.

636
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: So Jimmy and Rain say hi everybody. Hello, Hey, and

637
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: can you explain to us a little bit first of

638
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: all about what mutual aid disaster relief is and how

639
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:25,240
Speaker 1: it operates in these natural disasters. SURE mutual Aid Disaster

640
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: Relief is a people power disaster relief network based on

641
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: the principles of solidarity, mutual aid, and autonomous direct action.

642
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,040
Speaker 1: And we act as a Swiss army knife for the

643
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: larger autonomous disaster response and mutual aid movements UH and

644
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: work with UH affinity groups, local mutual aid groups UH

645
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 1: and other disaster survivors to help form and foster or

646
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: communal recovery. That sounds great, That's very inspiring. Can you explain,

647
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: maybe for listeners who aren't familiar exactly what mutual aid

648
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: means in this count text. Sure mutual aid is a voluntary, reciprocal,

649
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 1: participatory exchange among equals. It's about sharing resources, but it's

650
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: also about sharing power. I'll spend a lot of my

651
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 1: life in poverty, and I know that many people in

652
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: the same experiences would rather not receive something than receive

653
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: something with a downward gaze. If if something costs us

654
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: our dignity, it's not worth it UM, and so mutual

655
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: aid is a way to share with each other UH,

656
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: where we're UM sharing as equals UM instead of a

657
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: powerful giver of aid and a powerless receiver of aid,

658
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 1: and it also has the dynamic of addressing the root

659
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,280
Speaker 1: causes of the need in the in the first place. Okay,

660
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,319
Speaker 1: that's yeah, it's really that's a good description. Thank you

661
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: very much. What what you've done recently, right, is responded

662
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,239
Speaker 1: to Hurricane Ian, which most people I think will know

663
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: hit Floorida and I think the Carolinas after that. Can

664
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: you take us through some of the work that you've

665
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,359
Speaker 1: been doing down there? Sure? A lot of what I've

666
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: been involved in it supplies distribution, So we're UM every

667
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: day loading up vehicles and going doing mobile distribution to

668
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 1: trailer parks, to public housing apartments, uh and other communities

669
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: that are hit in historically, you know, left out of

670
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: top down relief models, UM and providing tarps, water, food,

671
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: other essentials that people need. Yeah, sure, that's very important.

672
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: What's the situation like where now? What like with ten

673
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: days out something like that from when the hurricane first

674
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 1: made landfall? Is that right? I'm not sure exactly right?

675
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,880
Speaker 1: Do you know? Yeah? No, time, time is not a

676
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: thing when this is happening. It's just kind of like

677
00:38:54,200 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 1: all of the days go together, or nights or both. Yeah. Yeah,

678
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: that's yeah, that's totally fine. So's you know, UM, in

679
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: some places, power is starting to get turned back on.

680
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: Gas is easier to find than it was, you know,

681
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: several days ago. UM, but there's still um, you know,

682
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: like a lot of need for solidarity based relief. There's

683
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: uh just like every disaster, there's uh many communities that

684
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: are left behind. UM. And it's the same communities that

685
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: are left behind by the disaster of capitalism and colonialism

686
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: and white supremacy. And so you know, even though power

687
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 1: is starting to get turned back on in some places,

688
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,280
Speaker 1: it's gonna be months or years, you know before people

689
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: recover from this. Yeah, there's a lot of folks that

690
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: are not UM like to me he's talking about. There's

691
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: folks that are renters who you know, don't don't know

692
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 1: what they're supposed to do with their with the apartment

693
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:57,719
Speaker 1: that they're in. The roof is caving in, and if

694
00:39:57,719 --> 00:39:59,959
Speaker 1: the landlord is not responding, then where do they spit

695
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: to do. So if there's folks on the ground, they

696
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 1: go in and they'll try to help get the tarp up,

697
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: you know, on the roof and things like that. So

698
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: that's usually the kind of stuff I'm involved with when

699
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 1: I'm when it's happening more in my area. But there's

700
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 1: a lot of us that are working like remote as

701
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: well to help support on the ground, like doing calms

702
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 1: and organizing supply lines through the autonomous supply line chain

703
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: that we have, and just kind of trying to mobilize

704
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: more affinity groups in the local areas, like Food Not Bombs,

705
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: UM sitting and Food Not Bombs came down and helped

706
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: out and did a food chair and so just trying

707
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: to get everybody who's close by to be able to

708
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,040
Speaker 1: address the immediate needs and start planning for the long

709
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: term because Jimmy is right, it's going to take years. Yeah,

710
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: that's really fascinating. I think you're right that often like

711
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: and I think we should contrast actually that like that

712
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: they sort of not the large global nonprofit model or

713
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,359
Speaker 1: the service provider model that they contrast with this, right,

714
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: which often kind of floods an area with resources whether

715
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: or not it needs them, and then withdrawals kind of

716
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: once attention is going to when people are left to

717
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: rebuild their lives kind of on their own, right. Yeah, Yeah,

718
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: time and time again, Um, from Hurricane Katrina to Hurricane Maria.

719
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 1: You know, our rain, you know uh. In Louisiana has

720
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: experienced a number of hurricanes, you know, in recent years. Um,

721
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 1: you know, time and time again, we we we had

722
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 1: we learn over and over again that the state is

723
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: not coming to save us. The market is not going

724
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: to save us. The nonprofit industrial complex, it's not gonna

725
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: save us. We have to save each other. We have

726
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: to take care of each other from below. Yeah, I

727
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 1: think it's very true. I remember in eighteen when the

728
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,760
Speaker 1: last seven mid terms came, there was a large migrant

729
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 1: caravan that came to Tijuana, which is just south of

730
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: where I live, and there are a number of these

731
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: big international non profits, but they weren't actually allowed to

732
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: enter the area where these people were. So you had

733
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 1: these people in a football stadium and you had large

734
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:08,319
Speaker 1: non property outside, and they cut off the water to

735
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: the place where these people work because they wanted them

736
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: to go somewhere else. And it was this bizarre scene

737
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 1: where you had tens of hundreds of thousands of dollars

738
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 1: of resources sitting outside, and then you had little children

739
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,920
Speaker 1: who hadn't had a drink of water that day sitting inside.

740
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 1: And it was really illustrative to me of how these

741
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 1: massive nonprofits can raise a ship time of money and

742
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: still completely fail people when they need help the most.

743
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,120
Speaker 1: So it's great that you guys are out there doing that.

744
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: Can you take us through some of you You mentioned

745
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: Hurricane Katrina, you mentioned being in New Orleans, like, can

746
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: you take us through some of the other natural disasters

747
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: and how you've helped UM well, UH in twenty six

748
00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,320
Speaker 1: when we first kind of got our paperwork UM official

749
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: or whatever, we had the flood and plank rouge and

750
00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 1: it was one of the most history excellent since like

751
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: the early nine and it barely made the news. And

752
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: there were several other major floods that happened with the

753
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: climate cause floods in the Midwest that UM summer that

754
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: barely made the news. And now people are starting to

755
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,919
Speaker 1: talk about it right, starting to talk about climate change

756
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: because it's inevitable. Every single disaster is you know, more

757
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: just more and more frequency or higher intensity storm, more

758
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,399
Speaker 1: rainfall in a shorter amount of time. And so we

759
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: had that flood and we hit the ground pretty much running,

760
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: just doing lots of bucking and gutting and organizing a

761
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: lot of folks coming up from UH, Texas and south

762
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: in like New Orleans area, and you know, east from

763
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: Florida all the way over Mississippi. UM. And then, like

764
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 1: Jimmy said, we just kept getting hit and hit. I

765
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: can't even remember everything after that, I knew there was IRMA,

766
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,640
Speaker 1: and we responded to IRMA. We had national calms running

767
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 1: U which was really cool. People were signing up for

768
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: workshifts and helping out on the ground while people were

769
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,920
Speaker 1: running around and getting transportation and getting people out of places,

770
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: delivering supplies, helping you know again with starping or like

771
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,239
Speaker 1: things that might have happened homes UM. And then we've

772
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 1: had Maria. I went down to Puerto Rico for that

773
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: UM and helped out with some of the solar and

774
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: water issues there. And then we have Laura and Harvey,

775
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 1: and I cannot even remember all of them at this point, Fiona.

776
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: They just all they're all going to keep coming either

777
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: into the Gulf or they're going to head along the

778
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 1: East coast because of the way that the climate has

779
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 1: affected the currents and the surface water temperatures in the

780
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,919
Speaker 1: Gulf in the Atlantic. Yeah, and like you said, they're

781
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: going to have a disportionate impact on people who are

782
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:46,479
Speaker 1: already marginalized. What is it you were talking about people

783
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 1: signing up for work. That's interesting. So do you seems

784
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 1: like you're mostly volunteer organization to people who have special

785
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 1: skills just got up to a website and say hey,

786
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: I'd like to help. Well, how does that work? It

787
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: happens in a lot of ways. Sometimes folks will reach

788
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: out via the email on the website, um, or they'll

789
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 1: reach out on one of the social media, or they'll

790
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 1: know somebody and be like, hey, I want to get involved. Um,

791
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: it's really grassroots. Some people are in the ground. There's

792
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: a lot of folks that have gotten involved more long

793
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: term because um, you know, there was a response on

794
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: the ground in their area. They kind of got into

795
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: it just because that's you know, what ends up happening

796
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: when there's no one else around, you rely on each

797
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 1: other and you build that community. It's kind of it's

798
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 1: kind of just what happens. Yeah, that makes sense. So

799
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: what's your sort of national Do you have a sense

800
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,040
Speaker 1: of how many people how many volunteers you have on

801
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:41,560
Speaker 1: a national I'm guessing your national or international scale. Now

802
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: it varies, you know, like in in times of you know,

803
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,520
Speaker 1: when you know, between disasters, uh, you know, there's you know,

804
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: dozens of people involved or you know, like a hundred

805
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: or two hundred, um. But then we're very you know,

806
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 1: participatory and um so when a disaster happens, you know

807
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot more people involved, hundreds and thousands of

808
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: people that participate in one way or another. Like in Louisiana,

809
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: we've had a lot of different like DSA groups or

810
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: sri A groups come out and help out, like mobilies

811
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: on the ground and kind of come out as deffinity

812
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 1: groups and do different jobs, help out with different homes

813
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: and so really it's just like it's a network of

814
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: facilitating anyone who's interested in ensuring that all of us

815
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 1: have what we need when we know the response is

816
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: going to be slow from those that are supposed to

817
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: be handling that quote unquote right, and then you guys

818
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: can connect people with skills or people with time to

819
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: people who need help. Yeah, so really, anybody who has

820
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: skill of any kind or as welcome, that's great. Yeah,

821
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: where can they find that people do want to sign up?

822
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,520
Speaker 1: I guess the easiest they would be yet I don't know.

823
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: Jimmy money in that I'm on the ground a lot.

824
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 1: Check out our website. Mutual Aid disaster relief dot org

825
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:13,759
Speaker 1: and our emails mutual Aid Disaster Relief at gmail dot com.

826
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 1: We're on all the social media's as well, and yeah,

827
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: we we love it when folks uh reach out to

828
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,760
Speaker 1: us and tell us how they want to be involved.

829
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you there are obviously some other

830
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,759
Speaker 1: organizations who, like maybe I would name it, you can

831
00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: if you want to, who have received a lot of

832
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: national press for doing helping people in times of disaster,

833
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: and maybe you can explain why, like some folks wouldn't

834
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: necessarily be comfortable asking them for help or going to

835
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: them if they needed help. Yeah. UM, so oftentimes, uh,

836
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, you know like organizations you know, um, you know,

837
00:47:55,080 --> 00:48:00,200
Speaker 1: top down organizations. You know they partner with you know,

838
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 1: police or homeland security or carcetral institutions like that. There's

839
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: um a shelter after um uh when Hurricane Michael hit

840
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,920
Speaker 1: the Panhandle. UM, you know, people who had warrants you know,

841
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 1: we're we're signed into the shelter and then police came

842
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: and scooped them up and brought them to um, you know,

843
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,840
Speaker 1: to jails into prisons and you know, so you know,

844
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 1: um and also you know, even with with you know

845
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 1: with those you know, extreme situations aside um. You know,

846
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: the the top down approach is patronizing, it's stigmatizing it.

847
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: Um can um At sometimes provide the water, the food

848
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: that that people need, but oftentimes comes at a too

849
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: high of a cost. Uh, and people long for a

850
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:58,960
Speaker 1: communal recovery. That's how we heal from disasters. Likeness from crises,

851
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 1: events is part of you know, a communal recovery. We

852
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,839
Speaker 1: were all able to kitchen and receive what we need

853
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 1: and and give what we can. Yeah, can you tell

854
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: us can you give U an example of a communal recovery,

855
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: like that's something that's happened somewhere. Well, you guys have

856
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: been able to assist a community or a community be

857
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: able to assist a family or an individual in recovering. Yeah. Um.

858
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: One one example that I think that's really representative of

859
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: of our approach is um there there there's a family

860
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 1: who was evicted you know, the um illegally you know,

861
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: after after a disaster, and uh that you know, single

862
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,919
Speaker 1: mom was looking after the other single moms making sure

863
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,919
Speaker 1: they had you know, uh fuel for you know, their

864
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:53,320
Speaker 1: generators to um you know, to power their their phone

865
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:56,080
Speaker 1: in different different devices, and that they had diapers and

866
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 1: that they had you know what, what they needed to

867
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: get by even though you know, they no longer had

868
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: a roof over their head. And so when mutually disaster

869
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: relief comes across people like this, our resources are their resources,

870
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: you know. So so when we both local mutual aid

871
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: groups just the matriarch on the block who's taken care

872
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 1: of of of the other folks on the block, mutually

873
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: disaster relief exists to uh to share you know, um

874
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: this this network of supplies and labor and you know,

875
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: back up and support with with efforts like that that

876
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:42,720
Speaker 1: are spontaneous that arise after every crisis. Okay, that makes sense.

877
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: That That's the thing I really wanted to get to

878
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: here was like, as you mentioned, climate changes causing these

879
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 1: natural disasters and the worst that things get them, the

880
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: worst that things get. And like you guys have started

881
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: this organization that helps people to help people, and I'm wondering,

882
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:04,760
Speaker 1: like what a like, how can people organize to help

883
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: and be how can people in communities organize to be

884
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: more resilient and in the time when natural disaster is

885
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,520
Speaker 1: becoming more and more commonplace. So one of the things

886
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: that I think what Jimmy spoke to regarding like a

887
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: matriarch on the black building, that community in advanced and

888
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: after if it happens to just be after, which is

889
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 1: kind of what happens a lot of times, is when

890
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: it's that forced, um, I don't want to say forced,

891
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: but out of necessity, right, Like necessity is the mother

892
00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,239
Speaker 1: of invention, right, And so there's these iterations of what

893
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: community can become. Every time there's a disaster, there's like

894
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: a clean slate and there's a vacuum in which something

895
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: can be created because there maybe nothing. And so if

896
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,719
Speaker 1: you can see an opportunity and if you if you

897
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 1: have any kind of network on the ground or you

898
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 1: and it spontaneously erupts, then that can be the new

899
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: growth or the like or however you to phrase it.

900
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: But I think for the resiliency to happen, that solidarity

901
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:11,840
Speaker 1: in the long term is built from those networks on

902
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: the ground. There's people recognizing each other and seeing each other.

903
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: And I think COVID is so interesting because people have

904
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:23,719
Speaker 1: become so nuclear and like isolated the technology and then

905
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 1: forced into these pods of technology and that was the

906
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,200
Speaker 1: only way people existed and then all of a sudden,

907
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 1: there was this need to be around people like people

908
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: like no, no, no no, I really want like human contact.

909
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: And so I think that kind of speaks to the

910
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,480
Speaker 1: reality of what we need to survive and that's going

911
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: to be through disasters, through pandemics. So building that building

912
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,959
Speaker 1: a community garden, like saying hey to your neighbor, finding

913
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: out who on your street is like an elder and

914
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 1: maybe doesn't have anybody checking up on them, Like knowing

915
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: what is in your what are the resources, whether it's people,

916
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 1: whether it's a food bank, whether it's like a water fountain,

917
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: Like what are the resources in your area? And where

918
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 1: can you spontaneously take over areas when something happens. There's

919
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: so many empty lots, different places that are you know,

920
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: really on the verge of being gentrified. And when something happens,

921
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: if you can help in the areas where you can

922
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: maybe take over a building, that would help maintain that

923
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 1: building for the persons who would otherwise be getting pushed

924
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: out soon. Right, Like we've worked with people that allow

925
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 1: us to set up school libraries, for example, in their

926
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 1: areas while we're while we're doing disaster the response, and

927
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: we helped build that house or that community center for

928
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,760
Speaker 1: that school up while we're there and creating a community

929
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 1: space for people to then run with that concept of

930
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,360
Speaker 1: what they wanted to build, like what they wanted to

931
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,799
Speaker 1: put there. The best way you know, to prepare for

932
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: disasters is ongoing mutual aid projects, groups and efforts. You know,

933
00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 1: the more that we can connect with each other, those

934
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:10,799
Speaker 1: relationships and those connections, they're the groundwork for uh a

935
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 1: vibrant people power disaster response. You gotta know who's who.

936
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,720
Speaker 1: You gotta know what people are able to do, wanting

937
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: to do. You know, what are people's strengths. It really

938
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 1: is about that resiliency. Knowing who you can count on

939
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,719
Speaker 1: for something like who knows about you know, wiring, who

940
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:35,840
Speaker 1: knows about plumbing, who knows about you know, the streets,

941
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 1: who knows the area the best? You know, certain members

942
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: in the community that are founders in the community that

943
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 1: others will respond to or navigate or gravitate too. I

944
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: got you. Yeah, Yeah, that makes a lot of sense that, Like,

945
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,120
Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting to contrast this with the

946
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: model of like surviving natural disasters that we've seen portrayed

947
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: so often, especially on like TV shows like Preppers, Right

948
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: which is like I will see on my own with

949
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 1: a ship ton of ammunition and shoot anyone who comes

950
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,799
Speaker 1: off to my Roman noodle castle. But what are you

951
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 1: gonna do with that? When you're supplies right now? Then?

952
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: When you who are you gonna rely on? All we

953
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,319
Speaker 1: have is each other? We're not. We're not. I mean,

954
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:17,399
Speaker 1: more power to the you know, outlier individual out there

955
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: that can literally do everything for themselves. But I just

956
00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 1: don't think that's humanities function we have. We have much

957
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: more UM when we share with each other um than

958
00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:35,840
Speaker 1: we have individually. When we pull our resources together, we

959
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,839
Speaker 1: have enough for everybody. Uh. We you know, we take

960
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: what is in our cabinets, you know, as far as

961
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: food or sup supplies, we take what's in our medicine cabinets.

962
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:50,680
Speaker 1: We make it liberated communal uh space and supplies and

963
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: and very quickly thinks snowball and uh small first aisation

964
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 1: becomes a wellness center or a clinic. And and and

965
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: that's you know, the hour of sharing with each other

966
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: and building building alternative infrastructure infrastructure together, and the alternative

967
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: infrastructure for me is really important to UM. I think

968
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 1: for us to be resilient, we we have to teach

969
00:56:14,719 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 1: each other the skills we have to start learning the

970
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: ways in which we will be able to actually build

971
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 1: back the way we want, the way we foresee our

972
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:27,480
Speaker 1: communities to be. Whatever that looks like. But we need

973
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: those skills if we are going to divest, if we

974
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: are going to have autonomy. Yeah, I really like that

975
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:40,040
Speaker 1: model of thinking of your natural disasters like an opportunity

976
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:43,080
Speaker 1: to rebuild in a more a more equal way, rather

977
00:56:43,080 --> 00:56:45,359
Speaker 1: than thinking of it it's the thing which just has

978
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:48,359
Speaker 1: knocks down, you know, the amount of stuff you've accumulated

979
00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:50,279
Speaker 1: or whatever. Instead of seeing it as an opportunity is

980
00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: really positive. It is an opportunity to reevaluate, is an

981
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: opportunity to see each other, to see your neighbor. It's

982
00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,200
Speaker 1: an opportunity to be more sustainable in the rebuild, which

983
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: is the thing that I really struggle with in a

984
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:07,960
Speaker 1: lot of responses. Um, it's just the dependency on the

985
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: existing supply chains and the existing methods of transportation like that.

986
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:15,400
Speaker 1: That whole needs to be addressed for resiliency in the future.

987
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 1: There's got to be an entire real world of how

988
00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:22,760
Speaker 1: we respond in some ways in general, Yeah, divest the

989
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,440
Speaker 1: way we want now, I think that's the sustainability thing.

990
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,160
Speaker 1: If just reminded me of something which like, for whatever reason,

991
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,160
Speaker 1: I bought one back last time I was somewhere. But

992
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:34,439
Speaker 1: people can't see this being an audio podcast. But one

993
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 1: of the things you often see in natural disasters is

994
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: these things that are called humanitarian daily rations and it's

995
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: like a it's like an m R E. And it

996
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:43,919
Speaker 1: comes in a pink packet and everything else comes into

997
00:57:43,920 --> 00:57:47,760
Speaker 1: packet and like it's within like two days. And obviously

998
00:57:48,080 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: this is a time when like sort of systems for

999
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 1: disposing of rubbish have been overwhelmed within two days, these

1000
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: things and the foil packets and little brown experience of

1001
00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 1: fucking everywhere, and it's just it always strikes me as

1002
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,919
Speaker 1: so sad that like we've taken this time when people

1003
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: are in crisis, and we've made at a time when

1004
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: also that their environment is in crisis now as well. Yeah,

1005
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: and it's a lot, and that's one of the things

1006
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: I struggle with, um with water as well. Water is

1007
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: kind of like my thing. I know that irony, but um,

1008
00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: when whenever there's a response, there's a heavy dependency on

1009
00:58:24,920 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: bottled water and there's other alternatives, but it would require

1010
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,520
Speaker 1: you know, a little bit of advanced skill training, a

1011
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:36,479
Speaker 1: little bit of advanced infrastructure development, but that response could

1012
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: be prepared in advance. And I think in in some

1013
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: cases there's communities, especially in the local South, where that

1014
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: advanced thinking about it's gonna happen, right, It's gonna happen here, right,

1015
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:54,080
Speaker 1: it's gonna it's gonna have what's gonna happen everywhere in

1016
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: the Gulf Coast, and it's going to keep going up

1017
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,400
Speaker 1: and up, And whether it's a fire, whether it's a

1018
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:01,840
Speaker 1: hurricane where there's a math, to tornado, whether to drought,

1019
00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: in a food shortage or a pandemic, if we're not

1020
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 1: thinking in advance and be just and I don't want

1021
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: to sound like you know, necessarily prepper individualistic, but as

1022
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,000
Speaker 1: a community thinking in advance, like for example, small plug

1023
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: but cooperation Jackson is thinking about building um their own

1024
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 1: water infrastructure so that they are not going to be

1025
00:59:23,280 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: dependent on just municipal water, which is yeah, I mean

1026
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: why not even if it's small scale, why not start

1027
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 1: developing community owned micro grids, water treatment facilities. Why is

1028
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,200
Speaker 1: it just capital large capital, Like Jimmy said, we're stronger together.

1029
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,160
Speaker 1: So if we pull together in these communities style, just

1030
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: like old school see essays we can do that, then

1031
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: we can. Essentially it's an it's another opportunity divested to

1032
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: build it ourselves. We can do it before, we could

1033
00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: do it after. But I think for resilience for me,

1034
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: finding ways around those existing models and supply lines is

1035
01:00:09,160 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: critical to avoid the gap in the disaster and the response. Yeah,

1036
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,720
Speaker 1: talk us through a community on water sustainable water project

1037
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,760
Speaker 1: like that, like what does that look like? What are

1038
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: the what are the components of it? It would So

1039
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:29,960
Speaker 1: that's a fabulous question, um. But it's also when that

1040
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,760
Speaker 1: I personally can't answer. I can because I'm not the

1041
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 1: entire community. So there's so many questions that are involved

1042
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: with that, like who's gonna who's committing to maintain it financially, operationally,

1043
01:00:40,640 --> 01:00:43,160
Speaker 1: maintenance wise, you know how many people? A is it

1044
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 1: going to be be used by? How frequently is it

1045
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 1: intended for all the time? Used for just as a

1046
01:00:50,200 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: response in a backup, So there's a lot of things

1047
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: that are involved there, and also financial structures. There's so

1048
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: many different ways that I can get set up, um,

1049
01:00:58,680 --> 01:01:00,600
Speaker 1: And like Jimmy knows, I do not like to involve

1050
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: myself with money aspects, I'm just straight hammers and like

1051
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, solar um. But there there's a lot of

1052
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 1: the good examples of community owned my grigrids for solar,

1053
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:18,400
Speaker 1: and that's really the I don't know that there's that many,

1054
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: especially in the US community owned water systems, but if

1055
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 1: you look internationally that is likely different. Um. Yeah, but

1056
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: as far as solar, that's a pretty common thing. Diversity. Well,

1057
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different ways my grogrids can get

1058
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,560
Speaker 1: set up and who could own it. So again it

1059
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,720
Speaker 1: depends on the scale, right, like who's going to fund

1060
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: the operation at the beginning, if you have a few

1061
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 1: angel owners that want to do it, or if you

1062
01:01:45,640 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: have a community that's willing to pitch in an equal

1063
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: amount for person you know, and how much they want

1064
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 1: to use for it. So you calculate how much you

1065
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 1: need for each person's use, you know, what's the distribution area,

1066
01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 1: how many camels do you need and how are you

1067
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: going to get it to everybody? Are they going to

1068
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 1: have battery paints for autonomous use? Are they going to

1069
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: be like tied in? So there's it's a lot of

1070
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 1: models that you could do for hurricane just before hurricane

1071
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: Ian Hurricane Fiona hit Puerto Rico um and it wiped out,

1072
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,720
Speaker 1: you know, for for a time the whole islands power grid,

1073
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:30,800
Speaker 1: but the autonomous off grid solar infrastructure that was built

1074
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: up at the central state point of Mutual the Mutual

1075
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 1: aid centers across the island stayed the lights stayed on,

1076
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: and they were able to continue powering their communities through

1077
01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:45,960
Speaker 1: autonomous infrastrure infrastructure. Oh yeah, that's really cool. I know

1078
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,280
Speaker 1: some indigenous nations and on the West Coast certainly have

1079
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: their own micro grids as well. Nice. Yeah, it's it's

1080
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: smaller scale, like how many like people are in the communities? Sorry, yeah,

1081
01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: the smallish scale. I think like maybe a few hundreds,

1082
01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 1: maybe a couple of thousands something like that. That's good. Yeah,

1083
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 1: it's an area of interest, I know for other Indigenous

1084
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: people for very obvious reasons. But yeah, that's really cool

1085
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 1: if someone was interested in that. Like let's say I'm

1086
01:03:13,640 --> 01:03:15,920
Speaker 1: at home with my community and I hear this and

1087
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 1: I'm like, hell, yeah, that's what I want to do.

1088
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 1: Can they reach out? Can they reach out to you

1089
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,360
Speaker 1: and be like, hey, help me, help me join together.

1090
01:03:23,400 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 1: These fifteen press car batteries or would you be able

1091
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 1: to help them with the like planning stages of that

1092
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 1: or is that beyond the scope of your work. Um? So,

1093
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:38,360
Speaker 1: my my main area of knowledge is around water um,

1094
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: and I dabble with solar a lot. But there are

1095
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: a lot of folks in the network who have insane skills.

1096
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:49,240
Speaker 1: Like we have people working on all kinds of projects,

1097
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 1: so many cool things. So I would say, yeah, reach out, um,

1098
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,640
Speaker 1: because that's kind of what the network is. It is

1099
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,880
Speaker 1: a lot of really cool people trying to just make

1100
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: positive change. It's super awesome skills. A lot of folks

1101
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: have pretty cool skills. Yeah. In the beginning of this interview,

1102
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: you mentioned how you felt like times just kind of

1103
01:04:11,720 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 1: slowed down or like it's all kind of blurred into one. Um.

1104
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:22,720
Speaker 1: Is that like a common feeling whenever these things happen

1105
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 1: and people are on the ground, the type of otherworldly

1106
01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:30,800
Speaker 1: nous or how everything feels so stretched out. How does

1107
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:38,160
Speaker 1: that kind of like what's your experiences with with that feeling? Um? Yeah,

1108
01:04:38,200 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: I think that feeling is partly trauma, right, there's a

1109
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:44,160
Speaker 1: lot of trauma associated with the work, and you know,

1110
01:04:44,200 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: those conversations happen a lot and it's UM really. I

1111
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:52,200
Speaker 1: mean personally, I won't speak for everybody obviously, but personally

1112
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,919
Speaker 1: I've feigned a lot of UM support just in our

1113
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:01,760
Speaker 1: collective network, everybody's UM. I feel really focused on the

1114
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: same thing. So I personally gain strength from that. But

1115
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:11,520
Speaker 1: I think there is a lot of UM. I feel

1116
01:05:11,520 --> 01:05:13,640
Speaker 1: like you can get a lot of hopelessness sometimes right

1117
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: like you start to see the the long term need

1118
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:22,160
Speaker 1: and the fading of the spotlight because the next disaster happens.

1119
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: And I mean there's literally still people in ban Rouge

1120
01:05:24,920 --> 01:05:28,479
Speaker 1: who still have houses that haven't been fully rebuilt and

1121
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: that was from the flood. And there's still places that

1122
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 1: don't have electricity in Puerto Rico right now, and it's

1123
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: been like, you know, I don't know what, over a month.

1124
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:41,040
Speaker 1: So you know, Flint, Michigan, just like name of thing. Right,

1125
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:46,959
Speaker 1: So I think, my, my, I don't think I could

1126
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 1: do this work without the support of other people who

1127
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,680
Speaker 1: do this work, who have that same UM feeling, who

1128
01:05:54,680 --> 01:05:59,280
Speaker 1: who experienced that. And the time. The time work I

1129
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:05,880
Speaker 1: think is partly for me again, partly exhaustion, partly trauma, UM,

1130
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 1: partly UM like excitement. There is so much excitement right,

1131
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 1: seeing seeing it, seeing the love, like, I don't want

1132
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,320
Speaker 1: to make it sound all bad, Like there's like beautiful

1133
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:19,080
Speaker 1: moments every day with the love that you have on

1134
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,800
Speaker 1: the grountain with everybody. Um, and so yeah, go for

1135
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 1: it often. Um. You know, Dorothy Day, after the San

1136
01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: Francisco earthquake over a century ago, said, while the crisis lasted,

1137
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: people loved one another. And what oftentimes we experience after

1138
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 1: a major crisis or disaster is is that our lives

1139
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:50,840
Speaker 1: before we're disastrous. You know that capitalism and colonialism, in

1140
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:55,280
Speaker 1: the isolation and alienation and the meaninglessness, drudgery of the

1141
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 1: work and selling ourselves to the highest bidder so that

1142
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:02,280
Speaker 1: we can survive, you know. Um, all that is an ongoing,

1143
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: invisible disaster. And in in the moment where the the

1144
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: ruins are around us and we see them, you know,

1145
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 1: we we come together in a way that that draws

1146
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:20,320
Speaker 1: on on on that feeling of solidarity and love and

1147
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:23,560
Speaker 1: and those those ideas of a better world that we

1148
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 1: that we protest for, that we march on the streets

1149
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:31,400
Speaker 1: for that we you know, envision coming you know sometime

1150
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 1: in the future in a microcosm, they exist here and

1151
01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: now in in these local pockets of people taking care

1152
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 1: of each other against all odds. Two. Yeah, I think

1153
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: that's really that's really well put. Like it's sort of

1154
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 1: it made me reflect on like I've reported from it

1155
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 1: and worked in lots of natural disasters, and like that

1156
01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: time when they like alienation, boredom, and despair they associate

1157
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: with everyday drudgery under capitalism goes away and you have

1158
01:08:00,600 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 1: a purpose and everyone's working together and you're also on

1159
01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:08,640
Speaker 1: like Twitter dot com all the time. It's very and

1160
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:10,439
Speaker 1: and in time stretchy is in at the same time

1161
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 1: compresses It's it's very addictive in a sense, like it

1162
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:17,800
Speaker 1: feels wonderful and hopeful. And then it's the feeling that

1163
01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: an uprising tries to replicate. It's it's the it's this

1164
01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: moment of peak experience that makes you. It forces you

1165
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:30,479
Speaker 1: to fall out of the kind of the drudgery of

1166
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:37,280
Speaker 1: collapsing capitalist infrastructure and you're forced to actually live around

1167
01:08:37,360 --> 01:08:41,639
Speaker 1: people and it's the weirdest feeling. And it happens when

1168
01:08:41,800 --> 01:08:47,800
Speaker 1: horrible things happen, like disasters like wildfires, hurricanes, or it

1169
01:08:47,840 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: happens people getting shot. Yeah, the moment of like national

1170
01:08:51,320 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 1: uprising as well like it's the same it's the same

1171
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,879
Speaker 1: function and for a brief moment you're able to actually

1172
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,920
Speaker 1: live the things that you like preach um and you're

1173
01:09:01,960 --> 01:09:04,800
Speaker 1: able to see them get applied to the world. I

1174
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:07,200
Speaker 1: think a lot of us getting away from that just

1175
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,280
Speaker 1: being a peak, right and having to come back down,

1176
01:09:10,320 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: because I'm really is to build that resiliency, right, to

1177
01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 1: to create it so that the lights don't go out

1178
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,840
Speaker 1: and we just keep rolling and if they do go out,

1179
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,400
Speaker 1: you know, we've got a backup plan, like you know,

1180
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:26,639
Speaker 1: there's a wood burning stove and we make some pizza.

1181
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 1: I don't know, but you know, I think, yeah, the

1182
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: peak shouldn't be a peak, there should be just a shift.

1183
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: So how do yeah, so how do we how do

1184
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:42,880
Speaker 1: we keep that right? How do we rebuild and keep

1185
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:50,759
Speaker 1: that momentum that that that net for each other? Yeah,

1186
01:09:50,760 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: it's yeah, yeah, I think that Letton had an answer

1187
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: to that that it did not work out the best. Yeah,

1188
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:09,320
Speaker 1: and and we're still here, yeah, yeah, here we are

1189
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,439
Speaker 1: listening to podcasts. But yeah, I think that was wonderful.

1190
01:10:12,479 --> 01:10:15,439
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed that. I think your point just to

1191
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:18,320
Speaker 1: close out that discussion about like how you guys have

1192
01:10:18,360 --> 01:10:21,880
Speaker 1: a network that supports people. Some of the most profound

1193
01:10:21,960 --> 01:10:26,520
Speaker 1: depression I've experienced has been not like directly around disasters

1194
01:10:26,600 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 1: or conflict, but coming home and feeling useless. So I

1195
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:34,200
Speaker 1: think that like checking in on people and continuing to

1196
01:10:34,240 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 1: feel like you're pushing in a positive direction, Like more

1197
01:10:36,920 --> 01:10:39,920
Speaker 1: people will experience a natural disaster after listening to this

1198
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: and have done before listening to this, and next year

1199
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:43,920
Speaker 1: will be bigger than this year, and it will get

1200
01:10:43,960 --> 01:10:49,120
Speaker 1: worse until but like you will feel elated and that's okay,

1201
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 1: and you will feel devastated and that's okay. And checking

1202
01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 1: it on people is super duper important. And speaking of

1203
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:59,200
Speaker 1: that network and making connections, where can people find in

1204
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: support the work that y'all do? All right, Jimmy Scene,

1205
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 1: We can go to mutual a Disaster Relief dot org

1206
01:11:09,320 --> 01:11:13,240
Speaker 1: or on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, mutual a Disaster Relief on

1207
01:11:13,280 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: Twitter it's mutual Aide Relief and our email is Mutually

1208
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,080
Speaker 1: a Disaster Leaf at gmail dot com. I would love

1209
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:24,880
Speaker 1: for more people to join uh this movement, you know,

1210
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 1: both Mutual A Disaster really their local Mutual Aid Project

1211
01:11:28,960 --> 01:11:34,240
Speaker 1: um and and and other other similar efforts or start one. Yeah,

1212
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:36,800
Speaker 1: that's a question we get a lot is like, Yo,

1213
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: you guys talk about mutual aid and stuff, but there's

1214
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:41,439
Speaker 1: really nothing in my area. There's I don't I don't,

1215
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: I don't know what whatether's to do. Like okay, well

1216
01:11:46,040 --> 01:11:52,280
Speaker 1: there's some that can fix that problem. I mean, like,

1217
01:11:52,439 --> 01:11:54,400
Speaker 1: do you have any like resources to help people kind

1218
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:58,639
Speaker 1: of figure out how they would absolutely? On our website,

1219
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: mutual a disaster leaf dot or there's a resources tab

1220
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: and one of the sessions is mutual aid about you know,

1221
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:07,920
Speaker 1: diving into the subject of what is mutual aid and

1222
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:11,880
Speaker 1: how to form a group or a project UM and

1223
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:16,880
Speaker 1: and other resources along those lines. We also have a

1224
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:21,760
Speaker 1: newly formed UM mutual Aid Toolkit Relief Toolkit that's on

1225
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:25,440
Speaker 1: our website. So if there are local mutual aid groups, UM,

1226
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:29,839
Speaker 1: this is a public form, so there's a big bold

1227
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:33,879
Speaker 1: like warning about it and happening it's public. For intention

1228
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:37,200
Speaker 1: we have our own obviously like internal threads, but this

1229
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: is more like for folks who maybe haven't ever plugged

1230
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 1: into mutually before, like being able to see where's all

1231
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 1: the different mutual aid projects and what they're doing. So

1232
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: UM again we talked about the resiliency, so This is

1233
01:12:49,640 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 1: kind of our attempts to be able to map for

1234
01:12:51,840 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 1: each other UM away where we can see what every

1235
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: where where everyone is that's interested in responding and doing

1236
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:00,479
Speaker 1: what they're doing. So if it's a you know, bom

1237
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 1: screw or like whatever your mutually things that you're doing,

1238
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: if you want to join on to that UM that's

1239
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: a fun way to see who might be in your area.

1240
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:12,040
Speaker 1: If everybody start stilling it out, fantastic. Thank thank you

1241
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:15,960
Speaker 1: so much for taking time out of the stretched out

1242
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:21,160
Speaker 1: or fis concept of litera progression of time to talk

1243
01:13:21,200 --> 01:13:25,840
Speaker 1: with us about the fantastic work that you are all

1244
01:13:25,880 --> 01:13:45,679
Speaker 1: a part of. Thanks for having us appreciate it. Hey everyone,

1245
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:49,920
Speaker 1: and welcome. It could happen here. I'm Andrew the YouTube

1246
01:13:49,960 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 1: channel andrewis UM. I would like to borrow some of

1247
01:13:52,880 --> 01:13:55,200
Speaker 1: your time today or tonight, whenever you're listening to talk

1248
01:13:55,240 --> 01:14:01,439
Speaker 1: about movements, the fact that humans move around and the

1249
01:14:01,520 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 1: most Indian restrictions on it in our modern world. Today,

1250
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm joined by my co hosts. Hello Garrison here, Hi,

1251
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:16,479
Speaker 1: it's James as well. Right. Glad to be here and

1252
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: to be here with you guys. So even before I

1253
01:14:21,520 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 1: was an anarchist I would say there were three things

1254
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:28,679
Speaker 1: I really despised. Things I despised from like fairly early

1255
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: each that being the education system, advertising and porters. I

1256
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 1: believe freedom of movement is fundamental. I don't know if

1257
01:14:42,120 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 1: that's controversial or anything, but these days it feels like

1258
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:53,520
Speaker 1: it has reached a point of like really great restriction,

1259
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 1: more so, I think than at most points of human history.

1260
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: So I want to talk about the history of borders,

1261
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 1: the role of borders, and the fight against borders. Not

1262
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 1: to give you some context, cause you can't about my

1263
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:14,040
Speaker 1: accent and from the Caribbean, particularly from Trina and Tobago,

1264
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 1: and being from an island nation, twin island nation. Actually

1265
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:25,559
Speaker 1: I have been made away of the constant through history

1266
01:15:25,640 --> 01:15:29,960
Speaker 1: that has been into Ireland migration, whether you're talking about

1267
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:34,799
Speaker 1: the Polynesian migrations across the Pacific, whether you're talking about

1268
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:40,240
Speaker 1: even within the Malay Archipelago or the Philippine Archipelago, or

1269
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 1: even when you're talking about of course the Caribbean. There's

1270
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:47,559
Speaker 1: always been, you know, this movement of people going from

1271
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:51,599
Speaker 1: Ireland to Ireland. You know, like Tronada is very close

1272
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 1: to northeastern Venezuela, only eleven kilometers off the coast of

1273
01:15:57,520 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: northeastern Venezuela out in the Northern Area in literally called

1274
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:06,479
Speaker 1: Northern Range, is an extension of Venezuela's maritime and these mountains,

1275
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:10,880
Speaker 1: but the connections to end there. Human settlements in Turad

1276
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:15,160
Speaker 1: dates back at least seven thousand years. In fact, one

1277
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,839
Speaker 1: of the oldest human settlements discovered in the Eastern Caribbean,

1278
01:16:18,240 --> 01:16:21,320
Speaker 1: the Banouari trade site, is found in southeastern turn Dad.

1279
01:16:22,200 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 1: One of the leading theories of human disposal across the

1280
01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: world places the migration of the Caribbean as beginning in

1281
01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: Turnad and going up the Antillian chain. A lot of

1282
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: the indigenous groups that settled in turn Dad and in

1283
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: the other islands north of Trindad and for the most

1284
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 1: part migrated up the or Nocle River in what is

1285
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:50,920
Speaker 1: now Venezuela. So exchange in migration between the continents and

1286
01:16:50,960 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: the island has continued undisturbed freely for thousands of years

1287
01:16:57,000 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: before the arrival of the Spanish, and today in our

1288
01:17:01,360 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 1: free quote and code post colonial code and code world,

1289
01:17:05,720 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 1: what was once the norm is now criminalized. Now you

1290
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: have to go through this proper process. In order to migrate.

1291
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 1: You have to ask permission from governments who draw these

1292
01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:21,360
Speaker 1: invisible lines or in some cases violently physical lines in

1293
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:25,959
Speaker 1: the sand and demanded deference. And yet still migration continues,

1294
01:17:25,960 --> 01:17:30,839
Speaker 1: because migration is a constant of human existence, legal and illegal.

1295
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:35,320
Speaker 1: Recent Venezuela crisis and subsequent migration is just another uptake

1296
01:17:35,360 --> 01:17:39,240
Speaker 1: of the same. Refugees, desperate escape the present um of

1297
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:44,879
Speaker 1: American imperialism and Venezuelan government mismanagement and all the component

1298
01:17:45,000 --> 01:17:47,840
Speaker 1: is us that have caused Venezuelan crisis have been flee

1299
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:51,519
Speaker 1: into Colombia, to Brazil, to the Dutch Caribbean Islands, to

1300
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 1: the other lastin American countries, and of course to turn

1301
01:17:54,080 --> 01:18:00,200
Speaker 1: that well, this migration is extorted by opportunists, facility, by

1302
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:04,880
Speaker 1: the organized crime of human traffickers, because when you try

1303
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:09,040
Speaker 1: to restrict that kind of demand, when you illegalize that

1304
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:14,479
Speaker 1: kind of movement, the people on the margins, we'll try

1305
01:18:14,520 --> 01:18:18,479
Speaker 1: to take advantage of those who are who need to

1306
01:18:18,520 --> 01:18:22,320
Speaker 1: move around, because that need is still there. And so

1307
01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:29,280
Speaker 1: lines also, of course are not necessarily creating, but they

1308
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:35,160
Speaker 1: serve to exacerbate essues like xenophobia, which is you know,

1309
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 1: only amplified by the existence of orders, and they also

1310
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:43,320
Speaker 1: deal with, due to their paperless status, a lot of

1311
01:18:43,320 --> 01:18:47,160
Speaker 1: gross exploitation because they struggled to find work and secure

1312
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: the basic necessities of life. The Venezuelan refugee crisis is

1313
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:54,000
Speaker 1: a disaster I've seen unfull before my own eyes when

1314
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:57,680
Speaker 1: I have witnessed firsthand, and one that is facilitated and

1315
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:02,759
Speaker 1: exacerbated by the existence of borders. And you've seen similar

1316
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:05,120
Speaker 1: issues of cool another part of the world too, you know,

1317
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:09,519
Speaker 1: borders are enforced between the US and Mexico, between Haiti

1318
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:13,240
Speaker 1: and the Republic, between Spain and Morocco, when you euroupe

1319
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:17,680
Speaker 1: in the Swanna region, between India and Pakistan, between Australia

1320
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 1: and Indonesia, um between Palestine and Israel. And being journalists,

1321
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:29,080
Speaker 1: I'm sure you guys have experienced, perhaps foodstand other examples

1322
01:19:29,400 --> 01:19:35,479
Speaker 1: of the violent enforcement of borders. James, you have any experiences, Yeah,

1323
01:19:35,600 --> 01:19:38,839
Speaker 1: for sure. I actually live just about the same distance

1324
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:40,920
Speaker 1: you live from Venezuela. I live about the same distance

1325
01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:44,120
Speaker 1: from the US border with Mexico, so I've spent quite

1326
01:19:44,160 --> 01:19:47,360
Speaker 1: a lot of my journalistic career crossing the border and

1327
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 1: reporting on the border. And like it's as you said,

1328
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 1: it's become increasingly violently enforced, and it's just ugly scar

1329
01:19:56,080 --> 01:20:00,719
Speaker 1: on on the landscape now. And it's and I often

1330
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 1: like to say, the border doesn't protect people, it controls people. Yes, yeah,

1331
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:10,799
Speaker 1: it's a very cruel and vicious and entirely arbitrary distinction

1332
01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:15,120
Speaker 1: between what is Kumi is Land to the north of

1333
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 1: the border and Kumi is Land to the south of

1334
01:20:16,800 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: the border in my case, Yeah, exactly exactly. The way

1335
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: that borders have cut through, um the homelands of any

1336
01:20:26,920 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: different indigenous groups has been absolutely disastrous for them. This

1337
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:35,400
Speaker 1: has taken place, and of course the us UM and

1338
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:42,759
Speaker 1: most I suppose recognizably in Africa, where these clunial borders

1339
01:20:42,840 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: have been causing tremendous harm to this day. Yeah, yeah,

1340
01:20:47,240 --> 01:20:49,360
Speaker 1: that's a very good point. I remember, just talking of

1341
01:20:49,439 --> 01:20:53,679
Speaker 1: like weird border things. I remember just before the pandemic,

1342
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:56,640
Speaker 1: I was on the border between Rwanda and the Democratic

1343
01:20:56,640 --> 01:21:00,800
Speaker 1: Republic of Congo. And when you it, it just seems

1344
01:21:00,840 --> 01:21:04,200
Speaker 1: so absurd, like to think that you know, some literally

1345
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: some I'll do it in England or a line on

1346
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:09,280
Speaker 1: a map or whatever in Germany. But one of the

1347
01:21:09,360 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 1: things that it creates is this weird situation where plastic

1348
01:21:12,120 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: bags are illegal in Rwanda because they're trying to protect

1349
01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: the environment and they're not in Congos. So there's like

1350
01:21:18,439 --> 01:21:23,000
Speaker 1: this illegal arbitrage trade of plastic bags across this border.

1351
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 1: And it's just such an odd and constructed, entirely unnecessary

1352
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:35,920
Speaker 1: and strange sort of legacy of the colonial plunder of Africa. Yeah.

1353
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:41,120
Speaker 1: I didn't even hear that before. That sounds quite interesting. Um,

1354
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:45,320
Speaker 1: he says, between Rwanda and Democrats Republic of the Congo. Yeah,

1355
01:21:45,360 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 1: I think it's sending the border town there. Um yeah,

1356
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:52,920
Speaker 1: people people will come across with their plastic bags. Be

1357
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 1: interesting to see how that develops. I know they are

1358
01:21:56,000 --> 01:22:01,559
Speaker 1: attempting to unify Democratic Republic of the car and go Tanzania, Kenya,

1359
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 1: you can salt Sudan, um, I think Jubooty and and

1360
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: Somalia and a few other places I think into like

1361
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,880
Speaker 1: an East African federation. So be interesting to see how

1362
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:20,200
Speaker 1: those um discrapan seas and laws developed. Yeah, the Rwanda

1363
01:22:20,280 --> 01:22:22,800
Speaker 1: border with Congo is that there's a soldier every fifty

1364
01:22:22,880 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 1: meters with a big machine gun, even going right through

1365
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:29,320
Speaker 1: the middle of the New Way rainforest, which is very

1366
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 1: remote by rewinded standards. Under a busy country with lots

1367
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:36,320
Speaker 1: of people. But yeah, yeah, that's a very militarized border

1368
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:40,320
Speaker 1: right now, right, yeah, yeah, that reminds you it's a

1369
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:43,600
Speaker 1: less militarized example. Um. I mean, people point out the

1370
01:22:43,640 --> 01:22:47,719
Speaker 1: disparity between the US Canada border and the US Mexico border,

1371
01:22:48,240 --> 01:22:52,160
Speaker 1: but I remember reading a story somewhere about how persing

1372
01:22:52,200 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 1: on the Canadian side UM had like they could very

1373
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,120
Speaker 1: easily cross over onto the US side, but there was

1374
01:22:59,200 --> 01:23:02,000
Speaker 1: like a steep trooper or something just standing there and

1375
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,120
Speaker 1: it's like if you cross over, have to arrest you.

1376
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 1: And it's just it's like you're right there, we're literally

1377
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 1: having a conversation face to face, and yet if I

1378
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:17,280
Speaker 1: walk over this our cherry designation, I have to be jailed. Yeah,

1379
01:23:17,439 --> 01:23:21,679
Speaker 1: it's bizarre. There's a very arbitrary The border between Myanmar

1380
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,519
Speaker 1: and Thailand is it's a funny example like that where

1381
01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:28,680
Speaker 1: like it's a river and this is unfortunately resulted in

1382
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 1: people trying to cross it here and able to swim dying,

1383
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:34,720
Speaker 1: which is terrible, right, But one thing that happens is

1384
01:23:34,760 --> 01:23:36,960
Speaker 1: like if you're in the river, you're in neither country.

1385
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 1: And so people will make stilts like little stands on

1386
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 1: stilts which come up to the level of the river bank,

1387
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 1: such that they can stand in like no man's land

1388
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:52,080
Speaker 1: or every man's stand, maybe every one's land, and sell

1389
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 1: alcohol without paying the Thai taxes and to people who

1390
01:23:56,280 --> 01:23:59,120
Speaker 1: are standing on the bank in Thailand. And again it

1391
01:23:59,240 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 1: just really illustrates how stupid now but treat this whole

1392
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 1: thing is. So as we're talking about the absurdity of boarders,

1393
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:12,360
Speaker 1: I suppose it's only fair to get into their history

1394
01:24:12,439 --> 01:24:14,600
Speaker 1: because for most of the rule, and for most of

1395
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:19,840
Speaker 1: human existence, really free movement has when the status cool traders, migrants,

1396
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:25,280
Speaker 1: hunter gatherers, nomads, they freely traversed this little blue marble,

1397
01:24:25,680 --> 01:24:29,519
Speaker 1: as they call it. Of course, many ethnic groups maintains

1398
01:24:29,560 --> 01:24:33,160
Speaker 1: it in relationships with particular lands. But even when city

1399
01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:35,880
Speaker 1: states on such rules, it was rare for rulers to

1400
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:44,120
Speaker 1: delineate precisely where their realm ended and another's began. The

1401
01:24:44,200 --> 01:24:48,639
Speaker 1: first like large scale restrictions really a rose under the

1402
01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:53,600
Speaker 1: Roman emperor Constantine in the fourth century, when he forbade

1403
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:58,559
Speaker 1: serves from leaving their lord's land. Documents, of course, had

1404
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:03,439
Speaker 1: to be created to request safe passage. To ask O king,

1405
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,040
Speaker 1: will you please allow me to move from point A

1406
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 1: to point B, my lord, your majesty soon whatever. What

1407
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 1: what do we call the first passports is what quickly

1408
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: and rules the medieval era essentially bound large parts of

1409
01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 1: yours population in place by sufdomb and movement was viewed

1410
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 1: by rulers as ruin us to their law and order.

1411
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:37,479
Speaker 1: They needed static populations to stay in place so that

1412
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:45,439
Speaker 1: taxation and the raising of troops and whatever they wanted

1413
01:25:45,479 --> 01:25:49,800
Speaker 1: to extract could easily be extracted. Because you know, if

1414
01:25:49,880 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: if these presidents were able to just move as they pleased,

1415
01:25:56,080 --> 01:26:00,360
Speaker 1: they will probably try to evade taxation that a little

1416
01:26:00,400 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 1: bit too excessive. Um, they would probably trying to evade

1417
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:12,000
Speaker 1: the oppression of their rulers. And that they did. I

1418
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:21,320
Speaker 1: mean throughout feudalism, passant revolts and uprisings very commonplace, and

1419
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 1: it's due to those revolts of the masses that sift

1420
01:26:24,920 --> 01:26:28,759
Speaker 1: them would come into a decline as a wage labor

1421
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: rule was in the fifteenth and sixteen centuries, but that

1422
01:26:32,040 --> 01:26:36,439
Speaker 1: would mean that free movement came back because now people

1423
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,720
Speaker 1: were commodity that a country's government wanted to keep within

1424
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:44,439
Speaker 1: its borders. Sur rulers offered citizenship and tax incentives and

1425
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:48,760
Speaker 1: want to encourage migration. And yet while they were encouraging migration,

1426
01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:52,639
Speaker 1: they were also kicking people out. So countries like Spain

1427
01:26:52,640 --> 01:26:57,240
Speaker 1: and France were either executing or expelling ethnic and religious

1428
01:26:57,280 --> 01:27:02,559
Speaker 1: minorities and mass So this period also bring about the

1429
01:27:02,640 --> 01:27:06,720
Speaker 1: rights of you know, nationalism, which were tapped into an

1430
01:27:06,720 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 1: earlier sense of um I suppose connection and sort of

1431
01:27:13,120 --> 01:27:18,200
Speaker 1: subvert that from connection to community to connection to this

1432
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 1: abstract notion of nation state, the imaginary community of the nation.

1433
01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:31,840
Speaker 1: Nationalism in Europe would attempt to unify a vast and

1434
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:36,759
Speaker 1: diverse range of cultural groups and classes under one state

1435
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:41,920
Speaker 1: while defining themselves against outsiders. And of course this ruling

1436
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 1: class meta narrative exists as a mechanism of manufactured, meaningless

1437
01:27:46,360 --> 01:27:50,880
Speaker 1: loyalty in order to control you. But that's a topic

1438
01:27:50,920 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: for another time. This era has also been described as

1439
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:03,040
Speaker 1: one of the large just periods of involuntary migration in

1440
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:07,599
Speaker 1: human history, that be in the Transatlantic slave trade, which

1441
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:10,839
Speaker 1: trafficed an estimated twelve point five million in slave African

1442
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:14,280
Speaker 1: people between the sixteen and nineteenth century. But there was

1443
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:16,639
Speaker 1: this one key movement in history of borders that would

1444
01:28:16,640 --> 01:28:20,040
Speaker 1: have lasted effects to today. At the end of the

1445
01:28:20,080 --> 01:28:23,720
Speaker 1: Thirty Years War, the Peace of Westphalia was signed by

1446
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:27,360
Speaker 1: a hundred and nine principalities and touchies and imperial kingdoms

1447
01:28:28,520 --> 01:28:31,360
Speaker 1: which basically agreed in sixteen forty eight that the state's

1448
01:28:31,439 --> 01:28:35,439
Speaker 1: borders were inviolable and an absolute sovereign state could not

1449
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:38,519
Speaker 1: interfere in the domestic affairs of another. Now, of course,

1450
01:28:39,320 --> 01:28:42,080
Speaker 1: this is all just talk, right at the end of

1451
01:28:42,120 --> 01:28:45,559
Speaker 1: the day, states have continued to interfere the domestic affairs

1452
01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 1: of others, would continue to violate the borders of other states.

1453
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 1: There are plenty of board of disputes that are alive

1454
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:57,280
Speaker 1: and well some decades or even centuries old um on

1455
01:28:57,320 --> 01:29:00,719
Speaker 1: this planet. And then, of course this idea of West

1456
01:29:00,720 --> 01:29:06,679
Speaker 1: Pralian severenety would not really be applied to people outside

1457
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 1: of Europe. The actual inhabitants of the interesting looking maps

1458
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:16,719
Speaker 1: that the West Filian era produced, we're not actually made

1459
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:21,599
Speaker 1: privy to any of those um decisions about the drawing

1460
01:29:21,640 --> 01:29:27,040
Speaker 1: of borders. They would also be moving, of course, people continuously,

1461
01:29:27,120 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 1: so you know, Spain was kicking out um Jewish people

1462
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:36,320
Speaker 1: and more's and people who relate the heretics as Uni

1463
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:42,479
Speaker 1: inquisition um. The British was moving their dissenters, criminals and

1464
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:46,559
Speaker 1: general pains and the Bombacy to settle colonized in places

1465
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:51,040
Speaker 1: like Australia, which is why Australia is like that. And

1466
01:29:52,760 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 1: things progress a bit further, you have the notion of

1467
01:29:56,520 --> 01:29:59,280
Speaker 1: free trade and free market gain in some ground thanks

1468
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:02,200
Speaker 1: to Adam Smith this new school of economics. At the

1469
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:08,400
Speaker 1: same time, concerns of population of MOUTHUS, unemployment and social

1470
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:12,120
Speaker 1: unrest in Europe led governments to start facilities and emigration

1471
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:16,640
Speaker 1: moving out their colonies. The more general free flows settler clonalism,

1472
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:21,240
Speaker 1: which would lead to domestic depopulation in Europe. And then

1473
01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 1: there was another shift, as tend to be the case

1474
01:30:25,080 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 1: in human history, as in the nineteenth century, migrants from

1475
01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:32,080
Speaker 1: now underdeveloped regions began to stream towards the more developed

1476
01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:35,759
Speaker 1: areas and drews. So you had North Africans going to France,

1477
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:38,800
Speaker 1: Italians and Irish headed to New York and all the while,

1478
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:44,000
Speaker 1: of course racism and xenophobia festering and proliferating as nationalists

1479
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,519
Speaker 1: with top fay against the so called threats to their nation.

1480
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:51,280
Speaker 1: Of course, Italians and Irish were eventually assimilated into the

1481
01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: hegemonic notion of whiteness. But North Africans in France have

1482
01:30:57,200 --> 01:31:00,960
Speaker 1: not been so lucky. Oh I said, who is lucky?

1483
01:31:01,040 --> 01:31:03,599
Speaker 1: Could and could because there's a little conversation about how

1484
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:09,160
Speaker 1: whiteness destroys cultures and erases the unique identities that these

1485
01:31:09,160 --> 01:31:12,680
Speaker 1: people would have come up with in an efforts to

1486
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:17,920
Speaker 1: unite them against minorities such as African Americans in the US.

1487
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:22,040
Speaker 1: So you see this period of lockdown, of this increased

1488
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 1: nationalism and these restrictions. These bad restrictions would also try

1489
01:31:26,320 --> 01:31:33,640
Speaker 1: to manipulate access to certain technologies, um, the telegraph, the

1490
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:36,960
Speaker 1: rail road. Yes, they enabled central governments to assert their

1491
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:41,439
Speaker 1: presence across the whole territory, but they would also try

1492
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:47,200
Speaker 1: to compete with other nations UM and keep certain secrets

1493
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: regarding technology. See that particularly um during the Cold War,

1494
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:57,800
Speaker 1: but we'll get to that a bit later. During the

1495
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:02,120
Speaker 1: First World War, we have of some sixteen million people,

1496
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:05,160
Speaker 1: the Great War UM as you should probably call it

1497
01:32:05,200 --> 01:32:08,280
Speaker 1: if you ever happened to time travel to that period.

1498
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:10,080
Speaker 1: I don't think people would want to hear that this

1499
01:32:10,160 --> 01:32:16,960
Speaker 1: is just the first two wars. But after the World War,

1500
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:21,640
Speaker 1: the Great War UM, the seggregationist Wouldrew Wilson, who was

1501
01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:25,640
Speaker 1: US President at the time, proposed fourteen points to the

1502
01:32:25,680 --> 01:32:29,720
Speaker 1: international community in order to prevent such horrors. And one

1503
01:32:29,760 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 1: of those core principles of the fourteen points was it

1504
01:32:33,080 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 1: the globe's borders. We were drawn along clearly recognizable lines

1505
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 1: of nationality. And like I said before, this is of

1506
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:43,000
Speaker 1: course just in Europe. It's not like any of these

1507
01:32:43,000 --> 01:32:45,439
Speaker 1: WILL leaders actually care about the territories they coughed up

1508
01:32:45,439 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 1: in Africa. And I think there was a point that

1509
01:32:48,600 --> 01:32:53,479
Speaker 1: I wanted to make about technology and how technology has

1510
01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 1: been restricted because when you look at again the real

1511
01:32:57,479 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 1: road and telegraph, while they enabled central governments to suit

1512
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,559
Speaker 1: their presence and assut their control, and like ever before,

1513
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:11,479
Speaker 1: the potential these technologies was kind of lost. Yes, the

1514
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,599
Speaker 1: railroad in the telegraph can help a government to suit

1515
01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 1: its control over its territory, but it con justest as

1516
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:25,599
Speaker 1: easily empower people to travel further and faster than they

1517
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:30,599
Speaker 1: ever had before, so communicate across greater distances and they

1518
01:33:30,600 --> 01:33:33,519
Speaker 1: ever had before. And insteadin the hands of the states,

1519
01:33:33,640 --> 01:33:38,599
Speaker 1: these technologies are of course used for oppress events. Back

1520
01:33:38,680 --> 01:33:41,680
Speaker 1: to the end of the First World War. In the

1521
01:33:41,680 --> 01:33:45,120
Speaker 1: post war period, which saw the collapse of four European

1522
01:33:45,160 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 1: empires Ottoman, Russian, Austro, Hungarian, and German, millions of refugees

1523
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 1: were left in a world where immigration controls had continued

1524
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:58,679
Speaker 1: to tighten and passports gained greater prominence. Last once the

1525
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:03,360
Speaker 1: nation state was mented in place, Fascism and Nazism would

1526
01:34:03,439 --> 01:34:07,760
Speaker 1: quickly arise to god its supposed purity. The world would

1527
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:11,120
Speaker 1: once again be plunged into war, the second one, this

1528
01:34:11,240 --> 01:34:14,719
Speaker 1: time which would again leave millions of uprooting and displaced

1529
01:34:14,720 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: people that states like Switzerland quote unquote neutral and the

1530
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:24,120
Speaker 1: US would largely refuse to assist. After the Second World War,

1531
01:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,200
Speaker 1: nation building would continue to displace and slaughter millions of

1532
01:34:27,240 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 1: ethnic and religious minorities. Millions of refugees have been dismissed

1533
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:36,840
Speaker 1: from lands that have been colonized and imperialized, and intervened

1534
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 1: with wars and wrecked with just the destruction of climate

1535
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:48,599
Speaker 1: change and poverty, and yet immigration controls only tightened further,

1536
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:54,240
Speaker 1: and they will likely continue to tighten due to the

1537
01:34:54,280 --> 01:35:00,679
Speaker 1: effects of climate migration and climate collapse, especially in our

1538
01:35:00,840 --> 01:35:05,800
Speaker 1: post ninety leven reality. US border patrol in particular has

1539
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:10,760
Speaker 1: escalated to employed twenty thousands and agents, and Israel Run

1540
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:14,040
Speaker 1: is the largest open air prison in the world. These days,

1541
01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:19,120
Speaker 1: militarized borders with heavily guarded barbed wire and electrified fences,

1542
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:23,200
Speaker 1: which were once common in times of war, have now

1543
01:35:23,240 --> 01:35:26,960
Speaker 1: been a staple of times of peace. These marginary lines

1544
01:35:26,960 --> 01:35:29,880
Speaker 1: in the map have become in some places violent fixtures

1545
01:35:29,920 --> 01:35:32,719
Speaker 1: on the landscape, with thousands of people lose their lives

1546
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:36,720
Speaker 1: every year for simply trying to cross. We've entered an

1547
01:35:36,720 --> 01:35:43,200
Speaker 1: era of essentially bordering without precedent, and thanks to today's technology,

1548
01:35:43,439 --> 01:35:45,920
Speaker 1: governments no more now about the people they govern, the

1549
01:35:45,960 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 1: people within their territory, but at any point prior and

1550
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:53,120
Speaker 1: human history. Cross border surveillance keeps neighbors in the new

1551
01:35:53,680 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: managing and monitoring their populous like lab rats. Data has

1552
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:04,559
Speaker 1: become of aluable then black cold itself. These governments have

1553
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:09,559
Speaker 1: chosen to wall and survey. This is our will now.

1554
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:16,799
Speaker 1: It's not some future cyberpunk the stupia, The curveillance capitalist

1555
01:36:16,840 --> 01:36:19,720
Speaker 1: health keepers here now and borders have an important for

1556
01:36:19,800 --> 01:36:23,320
Speaker 1: rule to play. But as our power structure their system

1557
01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:28,200
Speaker 1: of control. As the writers that Crime Think have said,

1558
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:32,599
Speaker 1: there's only one world on the border is tearing it apart.

1559
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:37,880
Speaker 1: And I think the idea of borders extends much further

1560
01:36:37,920 --> 01:36:43,040
Speaker 1: than just the nations borders. When you look at the Internet,

1561
01:36:43,080 --> 01:36:49,120
Speaker 1: fire walls, the checkpoints, the hidden databases, the for profit

1562
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:53,240
Speaker 1: prisons in the gated communities, all these different boundaries enforced

1563
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:59,520
Speaker 1: by ceaseless violence, enforced by a deep aortation, enforced by vigilanty,

1564
01:36:59,560 --> 01:37:03,240
Speaker 1: attack by street haraspment by torture, All of these boundaries

1565
01:37:03,320 --> 01:37:11,160
Speaker 1: are holding us back and tearing us apart. Migrants, due

1566
01:37:11,200 --> 01:37:16,720
Speaker 1: to their vulnerable status or often the first target when

1567
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,720
Speaker 1: it comes to the economic down to and oppression, civiilians

1568
01:37:19,760 --> 01:37:28,080
Speaker 1: and scapegoating nations wield of fair of this other and

1569
01:37:28,280 --> 01:37:34,040
Speaker 1: they use that to prevent their people from fighting for better.

1570
01:37:35,080 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 1: They turned their eye towards another victim. I doesn't even

1571
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:43,280
Speaker 1: get into all the different categories that have been constructed

1572
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 1: migrant expert, refugee, asylum seeker, illegal alien, and that one

1573
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:59,439
Speaker 1: in particular really grinds my cares because it is I believe,

1574
01:37:59,520 --> 01:38:06,600
Speaker 1: the pinner cool of the humanization to look at a

1575
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 1: person who's dice just man just managed to like just

1576
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:18,439
Speaker 1: by happensands fell on the other side of the border,

1577
01:38:18,760 --> 01:38:22,360
Speaker 1: to look at them and to deem them alien, deem

1578
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:25,800
Speaker 1: them illegal, to brand them that, and I even acknowledge

1579
01:38:26,479 --> 01:38:28,960
Speaker 1: their humanity when referring to them. And it's become a

1580
01:38:28,960 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 1: normalized part of political discourse to speak of illegal aliens.

1581
01:38:34,320 --> 01:38:37,759
Speaker 1: But I don't think we should reget just how violent

1582
01:38:37,800 --> 01:38:43,519
Speaker 1: that kind of languages. It's particularly violent when you count

1583
01:38:43,600 --> 01:38:49,200
Speaker 1: for the fact that while these borders are used to

1584
01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:54,000
Speaker 1: restrict people on the lowest rung of society, capital has

1585
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:57,680
Speaker 1: very few restrictions. In fact, that has much less restrictions,

1586
01:38:57,720 --> 01:39:05,360
Speaker 1: and people the right and their capital can cross borders

1587
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:09,639
Speaker 1: with ease, go from place to place without munch process.

1588
01:39:09,680 --> 01:39:13,519
Speaker 1: And in fact, we look at Jeff Bassos and we

1589
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:15,840
Speaker 1: say that, oh, well, he's the richest man the world

1590
01:39:16,439 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 1: for say soon, But when you account for the wealth

1591
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 1: that has not been accounted for, I think it must

1592
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:33,640
Speaker 1: be put into perspective that Bill Gates, Zackaboo, Jeff Bazos, etcetera.

1593
01:39:35,240 --> 01:39:39,439
Speaker 1: They are the richest people that we know of, not

1594
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:45,439
Speaker 1: necessarily the richest. A global economy has also been of

1595
01:39:45,439 --> 01:39:49,400
Speaker 1: course moving resources for a while now. Resources have more

1596
01:39:49,439 --> 01:39:55,440
Speaker 1: freedom than people. The unequal and even development has extracted

1597
01:39:57,240 --> 01:39:59,960
Speaker 1: minerals and materials from some parts of the world, process

1598
01:40:00,080 --> 01:40:02,600
Speaker 1: them in other parts of the world, manufacture them in

1599
01:40:02,600 --> 01:40:05,600
Speaker 1: other parts of the world, and then sold worldwide for

1600
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:08,920
Speaker 1: the profits to be hoarded by select few countries and

1601
01:40:09,000 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 1: select a few people. These wealthy countries plunder the poor

1602
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:17,719
Speaker 1: and then brutalize those who follow. Where the opportunities of Antica.

1603
01:40:19,360 --> 01:40:22,519
Speaker 1: But I don't think that one's opportunities one freedom. One's

1604
01:40:22,520 --> 01:40:26,400
Speaker 1: freedom should be restricted by where they were born or

1605
01:40:26,439 --> 01:40:31,280
Speaker 1: by the wealth that they do. To not control passports,

1606
01:40:31,280 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 1: inequality is yes, you that should not exist. Passports should

1607
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:42,400
Speaker 1: not exist. Palestinians can travel visa free to only thirty

1608
01:40:42,439 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 1: eight countries and territories, yet those in the West Bank

1609
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:48,960
Speaker 1: are restricted by violent by violent checkpoints and those who

1610
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:52,120
Speaker 1: live in gas are call you distript at all. Meanwhile,

1611
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:59,599
Speaker 1: other regions enjoy fast visa free travels, such as Germans

1612
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:04,040
Speaker 1: who have access to countries and territories, or the Japanese,

1613
01:41:04,400 --> 01:41:07,559
Speaker 1: who enjoy the most freedom piece of free of all,

1614
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 1: with ninety three countries available to them. A billionaire like

1615
01:41:14,240 --> 01:41:17,080
Speaker 1: Elon musket flying wherever he wants in his private jet.

1616
01:41:17,720 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 1: A political prisoner like a Jory Luta, who can be

1617
01:41:20,240 --> 01:41:25,920
Speaker 1: kept in solitary years on end. Traditional seafear and channels

1618
01:41:26,760 --> 01:41:33,439
Speaker 1: and land has been militarized and guarded by these vast navies,

1619
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:40,680
Speaker 1: by these vast troops, by these these machines, These structures

1620
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:46,200
Speaker 1: that disconnected, unraveled the deep ties between communities, borderston us

1621
01:41:46,240 --> 01:41:50,640
Speaker 1: all into prisoners, and I think it's about time we

1622
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:55,519
Speaker 1: resisted them. As the underground railroads of anti Nazi and

1623
01:41:55,560 --> 01:42:00,200
Speaker 1: anti slavery resistance has shown everyday people can help every

1624
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:04,640
Speaker 1: day people, no matter the obstacles. If you live in

1625
01:42:04,680 --> 01:42:08,680
Speaker 1: a border sanctuary city or a migrant community, they are

1626
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:12,160
Speaker 1: probably already groups that are put in this work and

1627
01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:15,600
Speaker 1: you could join that infrastructure resistance. If not, you can

1628
01:42:15,760 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 1: help to create that infrastructure to connect with people who

1629
01:42:18,960 --> 01:42:22,599
Speaker 1: are affected by borders in ways that you aren't. I mean,

1630
01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: perhaps you have a neighbor or a cool worker who's

1631
01:42:25,160 --> 01:42:32,360
Speaker 1: undocumented and could you use a help in that try

1632
01:42:32,760 --> 01:42:37,160
Speaker 1: to connect cross border formal and informal, public and coland

1633
01:42:37,160 --> 01:42:42,320
Speaker 1: design because these connections, these networks, or how people move,

1634
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:48,920
Speaker 1: live and evade state violence. Obviously, I can't speak for

1635
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:55,960
Speaker 1: everybody situation because different people's legal status, language, ability, education level, gender,

1636
01:42:56,040 --> 01:42:59,640
Speaker 1: raised class, commit muns and ability would affect their contribution

1637
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:05,920
Speaker 1: to the anti borders movement. But however you decide to contribute,

1638
01:43:06,760 --> 01:43:11,559
Speaker 1: I hope that you would remember who it is we're

1639
01:43:11,600 --> 01:43:16,760
Speaker 1: trying to help. We're not trying to act as you know,

1640
01:43:16,840 --> 01:43:20,679
Speaker 1: these saints for the media, and I recognized the irony

1641
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:25,680
Speaker 1: of saying saints in particular considered my old YouTube name.

1642
01:43:26,880 --> 01:43:31,920
Speaker 1: But the media is not our focus. The audience of

1643
01:43:31,920 --> 01:43:34,600
Speaker 1: our actions is not public opinion. It is those we

1644
01:43:34,640 --> 01:43:39,080
Speaker 1: want fighting with us, people who need our help, people

1645
01:43:39,120 --> 01:43:44,280
Speaker 1: who know the violent supporters forutand so they get into

1646
01:43:44,360 --> 01:43:50,440
Speaker 1: direct action two, you know, directly affect the material outcomes

1647
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,479
Speaker 1: of people influence our borders. You know, whether you're helping

1648
01:43:54,360 --> 01:43:57,479
Speaker 1: my creation prisoner managed to escape, or helping one person

1649
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:00,320
Speaker 1: get a roof over their head, helping an asylum case,

1650
01:44:00,320 --> 01:44:04,960
Speaker 1: having a person who is trapped in this system to

1651
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:08,679
Speaker 1: find the strength to get through a day. These actions

1652
01:44:08,680 --> 01:44:11,760
Speaker 1: refuberating our communities and they help oup others do the same.

1653
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:18,479
Speaker 1: We also, need, of course, more infrastructure, networks, alliances, skills

1654
01:44:18,479 --> 01:44:24,040
Speaker 1: and resources to be cultivated to strengthen our autonomy from

1655
01:44:24,080 --> 01:44:28,920
Speaker 1: these structures and to develop ability to defend against them,

1656
01:44:28,960 --> 01:44:32,559
Speaker 1: and of course these actions should be rooted in some

1657
01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:38,920
Speaker 1: strategy long term and short term for overcoming this regime

1658
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:43,280
Speaker 1: onnths and for all. Just for a final would I

1659
01:44:43,320 --> 01:44:47,480
Speaker 1: would say that there is nothing necessary or inevitable about borders.

1660
01:44:49,120 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 1: Only the violence of their most ardent believers keep them

1661
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:56,879
Speaker 1: in place and without them what as with seats to exist,

1662
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:05,719
Speaker 1: waters can only exist if they are enforced, and together

1663
01:45:06,960 --> 01:45:12,760
Speaker 1: we can make waters and enforceable. Together we can create

1664
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:15,080
Speaker 1: a will in which everyone is free to travel, free

1665
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:17,679
Speaker 1: to create, and free to exist on their own terms.

1666
01:45:20,600 --> 01:45:25,320
Speaker 1: Now's it. If you like what I spoke about in

1667
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:29,880
Speaker 1: this episode, or if you just like to hear my voice,

1668
01:45:31,200 --> 01:45:34,520
Speaker 1: feel free to check out my YouTube channel and Truism

1669
01:45:35,280 --> 01:45:37,000
Speaker 1: and you can support me on picture and dot com

1670
01:45:37,040 --> 01:45:41,040
Speaker 1: slash Seeing True, will follow me on Twitter at and

1671
01:45:41,160 --> 01:46:00,479
Speaker 1: Disclosing True. Hey everyone, and welcome taken up in the hare,

1672
01:46:01,439 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: I'm Andrew the YouTube channel Andrewism, and today I want

1673
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:09,960
Speaker 1: to talk about the squatting movement. Actually, before I do that,

1674
01:46:11,120 --> 01:46:15,360
Speaker 1: I'm joined today by my co hosts Your Cause Andrew

1675
01:46:15,439 --> 01:46:17,680
Speaker 1: or Garrison Davis and James Stout, and I am your

1676
01:46:17,840 --> 01:46:23,200
Speaker 1: producer Sophie and I am here Andrew, please continue, Thank you, Sophie.

1677
01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:27,759
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the squatting movement and particularly

1678
01:46:27,800 --> 01:46:34,519
Speaker 1: how people love overcome the analities of privatizing land and

1679
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:38,840
Speaker 1: restricting people's access to it so they could cove a

1680
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:46,320
Speaker 1: life for themselves. Um in this troubling world now, I

1681
01:46:46,360 --> 01:46:50,160
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are least passionally familiar with

1682
01:46:50,400 --> 01:46:56,240
Speaker 1: the squatting movements, the political squatting movements where be an anarchist,

1683
01:46:56,400 --> 01:47:00,320
Speaker 1: a tournament store, socialist of nature that I've taken place

1684
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:05,400
Speaker 1: in Italy, the US, and most famously Denmark where they

1685
01:47:05,400 --> 01:47:11,600
Speaker 1: had you know, Freetown Christiania set up. But outside of

1686
01:47:11,760 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 1: the global North and much of the rest of the world,

1687
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:18,680
Speaker 1: squatting is just a fact of life. It doesn't typically

1688
01:47:18,880 --> 01:47:24,920
Speaker 1: though sometimes it does have radical political ambitions. So today

1689
01:47:24,960 --> 01:47:29,799
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be spending time discussing the squatting

1690
01:47:29,800 --> 01:47:36,200
Speaker 1: movement in Europe or North America, but instead discussing the

1691
01:47:36,240 --> 01:47:39,760
Speaker 1: millions of people in the world lack of access to

1692
01:47:39,840 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 1: land where they can find secure shelter. And I turned

1693
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:50,000
Speaker 1: to what has been deemed informal occupation or squatting to

1694
01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:55,439
Speaker 1: find residents. Most specifically, I'll be discussing the Caribbean, but

1695
01:47:55,520 --> 01:47:58,799
Speaker 1: first I need to get into some statistics. It's always

1696
01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:02,880
Speaker 1: that kind of weird, right. In nine fifty, only eighty

1697
01:48:03,000 --> 01:48:06,280
Speaker 1: six cities around the world had populations of one million

1698
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:10,559
Speaker 1: people or more. In twenty sixteen, there were just over

1699
01:48:10,760 --> 01:48:16,200
Speaker 1: six hundred cities that met this threshold. Over half of

1700
01:48:16,200 --> 01:48:20,639
Speaker 1: the world's population now lives in urban areas, and nearly

1701
01:48:20,720 --> 01:48:23,479
Speaker 1: a billion, if not a billion, are estimated to be

1702
01:48:23,560 --> 01:48:27,840
Speaker 1: living in informal settlements, mostly in the urban and perry

1703
01:48:27,960 --> 01:48:31,760
Speaker 1: urban areas of less developed countries. I don't know if

1704
01:48:31,760 --> 01:48:34,080
Speaker 1: any of you have read Planets of the Slums by

1705
01:48:34,120 --> 01:48:39,240
Speaker 1: Mike Davis. I don't think I have, but he discusses

1706
01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:45,640
Speaker 1: this phenomenon, this explosion in urbanization, and the fact that, unfortunately,

1707
01:48:45,800 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 1: you know, these cities aren't exactly urban Eden's. They are

1708
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:56,200
Speaker 1: deeply impoverished, filled with m makeshift and often unsafe, whether

1709
01:48:56,240 --> 01:49:01,880
Speaker 1: it be you know, poison us or just poorly constructed

1710
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:07,960
Speaker 1: or disease written dwell ends areas such as their roots Quarantina,

1711
01:49:08,479 --> 01:49:14,400
Speaker 1: Mexico cities Santa Cruz, Maya, Huaco Ros Favelas, and Cairo

1712
01:49:14,600 --> 01:49:17,120
Speaker 1: is a city of the dead. We're up to one

1713
01:49:17,520 --> 01:49:22,960
Speaker 1: million people living homes made out of actual tools. Now

1714
01:49:23,040 --> 01:49:28,080
Speaker 1: Davis addresses the issues root cause, that being post colonial

1715
01:49:28,200 --> 01:49:33,400
Speaker 1: neoliberal policies driven by free market Catholics principles. It is yes,

1716
01:49:33,439 --> 01:49:36,439
Speaker 1: cities modernized in the wake of the colonial era, a

1717
01:49:36,479 --> 01:49:39,439
Speaker 1: lot of the same zone and boundaries enforced by imperial

1718
01:49:39,479 --> 01:49:43,880
Speaker 1: powers across racial and soce economic lines were continued. So

1719
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:48,400
Speaker 1: quality colonization did not really take place, and did imperial

1720
01:49:48,479 --> 01:49:52,040
Speaker 1: rule didn't lead to a magical increase in equality e galitianism.

1721
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:55,519
Speaker 1: It's just that post colonial rulers took up the mantle

1722
01:49:55,600 --> 01:50:03,200
Speaker 1: where a colonial rulers left so and of course this switch,

1723
01:50:03,880 --> 01:50:07,800
Speaker 1: this changing of hands of power was kept up by

1724
01:50:07,880 --> 01:50:12,360
Speaker 1: the International Monetary Fund, which stepped in on behalf of

1725
01:50:12,400 --> 01:50:16,639
Speaker 1: these elites and pushed the poorest citizens basically into thickly

1726
01:50:16,680 --> 01:50:21,160
Speaker 1: concentrated slums by making it easier for the ruling class

1727
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:29,360
Speaker 1: to ignore these issues and prioritize the affluent. The debt

1728
01:50:29,400 --> 01:50:32,680
Speaker 1: restructure and policies and nine also LEDs a lot of

1729
01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 1: governments cutting down on their public health and education investment

1730
01:50:37,000 --> 01:50:40,240
Speaker 1: expenditure so that they could repay the loans that they

1731
01:50:40,280 --> 01:50:43,840
Speaker 1: had been forced to take out David spent a lot

1732
01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:47,559
Speaker 1: of time talking about Asia and sometime talking about the

1733
01:50:47,560 --> 01:50:52,639
Speaker 1: increasing hardship in African cities. But the situation of squatting

1734
01:50:52,760 --> 01:50:57,360
Speaker 1: is often overlooked in the Caribbean, and so I'd like

1735
01:50:57,400 --> 01:51:03,439
Speaker 1: to draw some attention to that. I think that anyone

1736
01:51:03,439 --> 01:51:06,760
Speaker 1: who has lived in the Caribbean or as family in

1737
01:51:06,760 --> 01:51:09,720
Speaker 1: the Caribbean would be somewhat familiar with the idea of

1738
01:51:09,960 --> 01:51:14,760
Speaker 1: family land, which is this idea that you know, you

1739
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 1: have these plots that the family essentially owns collectively, maybe

1740
01:51:21,280 --> 01:51:23,400
Speaker 1: somebody living there, or it may just be landed as

1741
01:51:23,439 --> 01:51:29,240
Speaker 1: being passed along for anyone who needs it. UM. A

1742
01:51:29,240 --> 01:51:33,600
Speaker 1: lot of this land was acquired by purchase, and a

1743
01:51:33,640 --> 01:51:38,320
Speaker 1: lot of it was acquired by squatting in Trinidad, in

1744
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:44,160
Speaker 1: Jamaica and Puerto Rico and Martinique and Barbadoes. Squatting was

1745
01:51:44,200 --> 01:51:54,920
Speaker 1: how a lot of recently emancipated people gained some foothold

1746
01:51:56,479 --> 01:52:01,840
Speaker 1: to live now they could not stay on the plantation system. UM. Now,

1747
01:52:01,880 --> 01:52:08,439
Speaker 1: the early squatting movement was largely wiped out by the

1748
01:52:08,479 --> 01:52:15,479
Speaker 1: growing plantation system UM, but eventually a new squatting movement

1749
01:52:15,479 --> 01:52:21,479
Speaker 1: would arise due to escaped slaves and maroons and post

1750
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:28,560
Speaker 1: indentured individuals who would resettle um on those regions that

1751
01:52:28,640 --> 01:52:34,439
Speaker 1: were previously wiped out by the plantation system. I'm going

1752
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:37,520
Speaker 1: to spend most of the focus of this episode discussing

1753
01:52:37,680 --> 01:52:42,280
Speaker 1: what took place in Jamaica because I discovered this really

1754
01:52:42,280 --> 01:52:46,439
Speaker 1: excellent research paper done by Professor Jean Besson. But Jamaica

1755
01:52:46,520 --> 01:52:49,479
Speaker 1: is really quite an interesting example because Jamaica is one

1756
01:52:49,479 --> 01:52:53,520
Speaker 1: of the few Caribbean countries that had a successful, sustained

1757
01:52:54,320 --> 01:52:58,840
Speaker 1: maroon movement that lasted into the twenty one century. And

1758
01:52:58,960 --> 01:53:02,000
Speaker 1: so what happened, as is the case for a lot

1759
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:06,280
Speaker 1: of these colonies, is you have this Cittain model of

1760
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,720
Speaker 1: land ownership called crown land. Basically all the land of

1761
01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:14,680
Speaker 1: the crown deemed themselves to own by virtue of colonized.

1762
01:53:14,680 --> 01:53:17,760
Speaker 1: In these places, crown land would often be you know,

1763
01:53:18,160 --> 01:53:21,320
Speaker 1: parceled out when they want to attract new colonists to

1764
01:53:22,000 --> 01:53:30,280
Speaker 1: their different colonies, and so enslaved people in Jamaica created

1765
01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:35,439
Speaker 1: these squatters, settle months on crown land, basically recaptured that

1766
01:53:35,560 --> 01:53:42,720
Speaker 1: land and created villages and communities um in as maroons

1767
01:53:42,840 --> 01:53:48,559
Speaker 1: in that context of colonial violence, and of course these

1768
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:54,439
Speaker 1: governments would demolish the squads settlements and try to effect

1769
01:53:54,800 --> 01:54:05,320
Speaker 1: land capture. But in Jamaica, the Maroons succeeded, particularly the

1770
01:54:05,400 --> 01:54:08,000
Speaker 1: Leeward Maroons, as they were two different groups to win

1771
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 1: Wood Maroons in the Leewood Moroons, and that's a whole

1772
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:14,920
Speaker 1: different history. Today, a Kampong Village is the only survive

1773
01:54:15,000 --> 01:54:18,840
Speaker 1: in village for the Jamaican Leewood Maroons, and there's also

1774
01:54:18,880 --> 01:54:26,439
Speaker 1: the oldest persistent Maroon society in African America. After the

1775
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:32,040
Speaker 1: enslaved Africans and Creoles escaped the plantations and squatted Crown Land,

1776
01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:36,720
Speaker 1: they waged successful guerrilla warfare against the British colonists in

1777
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:41,080
Speaker 1: the First Maroon War and the leadership of Kujo and

1778
01:54:41,280 --> 01:54:44,160
Speaker 1: that land would be the basis of two Leewood Maroon

1779
01:54:44,280 --> 01:54:47,920
Speaker 1: villages that be in Kujo's Town in St. James and

1780
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:52,240
Speaker 1: a Kampongs Town in St. Elizabeth, a Kampong being named

1781
01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:59,879
Speaker 1: after Kujo's brother in arms, Captain A. Kampong. Eventually, Kujo

1782
01:55:00,080 --> 01:55:04,440
Speaker 1: Town will be renamed Trelawny Town after the treaty between

1783
01:55:04,480 --> 01:55:07,840
Speaker 1: the British governor would grant the Maroons their freedom and

1784
01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:14,000
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred acres of legal freehold land. A compound town,

1785
01:55:14,040 --> 01:55:17,400
Speaker 1: on the other hand, did not really get any legal

1786
01:55:17,440 --> 01:55:23,280
Speaker 1: recognition until a land grant was given to them to

1787
01:55:23,920 --> 01:55:30,840
Speaker 1: some two thousand fives around a couple of decades later

1788
01:55:30,920 --> 01:55:36,120
Speaker 1: between six the Second Maroon War before between the Trelawny

1789
01:55:36,200 --> 01:55:39,520
Speaker 1: Town Maroons and the British colonists. Because of course the

1790
01:55:39,560 --> 01:55:43,960
Speaker 1: British did what they would do and whipped two of

1791
01:55:44,000 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 1: the Maroons for the theft of pigs in Montego Bay.

1792
01:55:49,360 --> 01:55:51,840
Speaker 1: Of course, this is just the insight and incident, as

1793
01:55:51,880 --> 01:55:55,400
Speaker 1: these things tend to be, for the deeper discontent regarding

1794
01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:59,160
Speaker 1: access to the land. And after this Second Maroon War,

1795
01:55:59,640 --> 01:56:05,440
Speaker 1: the learning Roons ended up being deported to Nova Scotia. So,

1796
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:09,240
Speaker 1: for those a bit familiar with you know Canadian history,

1797
01:56:10,600 --> 01:56:16,320
Speaker 1: the Maroons are moved to and resettled in Canada. As

1798
01:56:16,320 --> 01:56:21,200
Speaker 1: a result of this and the Trianytown ruins Land being confiscated,

1799
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:27,480
Speaker 1: a compunc Town became the soul surviving village and today

1800
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:31,120
Speaker 1: it remains Common Treaty town. It is owned in common

1801
01:56:31,480 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 1: by the some I believe it's like just over three

1802
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:38,800
Speaker 1: thousand adults, all of which, by the way, claimed descent

1803
01:56:38,960 --> 01:56:43,640
Speaker 1: from you know Couju and they sort of have a

1804
01:56:43,680 --> 01:56:49,480
Speaker 1: mixed settlement, producing for household use, rare and livestock, utilizing

1805
01:56:49,480 --> 01:56:54,280
Speaker 1: in the forest of medicines and timber um, cultivating food

1806
01:56:54,320 --> 01:57:00,920
Speaker 1: forests and provision grounds. And even after that was of

1807
01:57:00,920 --> 01:57:03,640
Speaker 1: the communitude migrate, they would still have that connection to

1808
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:06,920
Speaker 1: their commons and often returns to either live or visit.

1809
01:57:08,520 --> 01:57:13,600
Speaker 1: Trilony Town. On the other hand, after being recaptured by

1810
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:19,280
Speaker 1: the crown, it was eventually purchased and transformed into family

1811
01:57:19,360 --> 01:57:24,360
Speaker 1: lands by the descendants of slaves, lanterns, and ruins, and

1812
01:57:24,440 --> 01:57:28,680
Speaker 1: of course squatting played a part in that development. Most

1813
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:31,920
Speaker 1: recently in Latin America and the Caribbean, there has been

1814
01:57:31,960 --> 01:57:35,080
Speaker 1: a move by governments switching from a policy of trying

1815
01:57:35,120 --> 01:57:39,240
Speaker 1: to eradicate squatters and instead trying to give them titled

1816
01:57:39,240 --> 01:57:44,520
Speaker 1: their lands, either granting them or usually selling it to

1817
01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 1: them in an effort to alleviate poverty so they could

1818
01:57:48,320 --> 01:57:51,040
Speaker 1: use their house as you know, collateral for business loans

1819
01:57:51,080 --> 01:57:55,320
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. And that's basically what happened

1820
01:57:55,800 --> 01:58:00,080
Speaker 1: for a compound town and for Trelawney Town, where the

1821
01:58:00,120 --> 01:58:03,040
Speaker 1: captured land was surveyed and subdivided and put for sale

1822
01:58:03,400 --> 01:58:05,400
Speaker 1: and so the squat was able to purchase the land

1823
01:58:06,000 --> 01:58:09,320
Speaker 1: and the government was able to impose taxation on the

1824
01:58:09,320 --> 01:58:12,720
Speaker 1: people who lived on that land. Now, I I spoke

1825
01:58:12,760 --> 01:58:17,120
Speaker 1: of squatting in the Caribbean Latin America typically being not

1826
01:58:17,720 --> 01:58:23,320
Speaker 1: radically political, but there are political slash religious movements that

1827
01:58:23,400 --> 01:58:28,840
Speaker 1: have used squatting to gain a foothold. For example, the

1828
01:58:28,840 --> 01:58:37,480
Speaker 1: Revival Zion movements and offshoot of Rasterfarian movements. If I'm honestly,

1829
01:58:37,480 --> 01:58:40,280
Speaker 1: couldn't find much information about them, but they're enough from

1830
01:58:40,320 --> 01:58:44,760
Speaker 1: Jamaican religion and slash cult and so they managed to

1831
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:49,640
Speaker 1: capture a lot of the land near Trelawney Town and

1832
01:58:50,880 --> 01:58:57,200
Speaker 1: we're often settled their homes right behind the city councils,

1833
01:58:57,200 --> 01:59:01,080
Speaker 1: no squatting signs. Eventually, you know you have about thirty

1834
01:59:01,160 --> 01:59:07,120
Speaker 1: house shools who have basically recaptured their land from Babylon,

1835
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:17,080
Speaker 1: as Rastafarians would describe the state um. Their community, which

1836
01:59:17,080 --> 01:59:21,080
Speaker 1: they called Zion, became a very vibrant squatter settlement of

1837
01:59:21,120 --> 01:59:27,680
Speaker 1: some seventy house yards on about thirty acres have captured land. Eventually,

1838
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:32,400
Speaker 1: the land was surveyed and subdivided, of course, trying to

1839
01:59:33,640 --> 01:59:39,760
Speaker 1: tax and control the people that were there, But the

1840
01:59:39,840 --> 01:59:44,360
Speaker 1: situation led to a lot of people still you know,

1841
01:59:44,760 --> 01:59:46,600
Speaker 1: not being able to afford the land, and still of

1842
01:59:46,640 --> 01:59:50,880
Speaker 1: course having to squat on the land that they lived on.

1843
01:59:51,640 --> 01:59:55,640
Speaker 1: But so long difficulty with squatted land is that it's

1844
01:59:55,760 --> 02:00:00,960
Speaker 1: a very um tenuous, very fragile, wild state of being.

1845
02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:06,440
Speaker 1: The future is often unswittan and cleats. It's more secure,

1846
02:00:06,480 --> 02:00:10,960
Speaker 1: i would say, than being like homeless, but you're still

1847
02:00:11,080 --> 02:00:14,920
Speaker 1: very much subject to state violence. Um And even when

1848
02:00:15,200 --> 02:00:19,840
Speaker 1: so called legal avenues opened up for you to get

1849
02:00:19,880 --> 02:00:23,240
Speaker 1: the land, you know, through purchase, the fact that you

1850
02:00:23,320 --> 02:00:25,240
Speaker 1: had to squat in the land in the first place

1851
02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:28,000
Speaker 1: should be some indication that you probably can't afford to

1852
02:00:28,080 --> 02:00:37,320
Speaker 1: buy land. But squatting enables people, at least in the

1853
02:00:37,360 --> 02:00:43,080
Speaker 1: interim two potentially you know, develop some funds and stuff

1854
02:00:43,160 --> 02:00:49,320
Speaker 1: until they are able to secure a future for their families.

1855
02:00:53,160 --> 02:00:57,080
Speaker 1: I think a lot of the liberal solutions to the

1856
02:00:57,120 --> 02:01:01,400
Speaker 1: issue of squatting and poverty is to replace these sorts

1857
02:01:01,440 --> 02:01:07,040
Speaker 1: of systems and put it instead like proper private property

1858
02:01:07,160 --> 02:01:09,280
Speaker 1: rights and giving these people private property so that they

1859
02:01:09,280 --> 02:01:13,200
Speaker 1: could achieve sustainable development goals and all the other buzzwords

1860
02:01:13,280 --> 02:01:17,320
Speaker 1: that you know, these programs tend to use. I think

1861
02:01:17,360 --> 02:01:20,600
Speaker 1: the future of these kinds of projects, however, should be

1862
02:01:21,240 --> 02:01:26,840
Speaker 1: more along the lines of commons. I think that the

1863
02:01:26,840 --> 02:01:30,520
Speaker 1: fact that they were able to secure that land without

1864
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:33,760
Speaker 1: the government's approval should be an indication that the government

1865
02:01:33,760 --> 02:01:38,800
Speaker 1: should not need to approve for people to live on

1866
02:01:39,840 --> 02:01:44,200
Speaker 1: the ether You're called home. I've spoken a previous episode

1867
02:01:44,240 --> 02:01:49,360
Speaker 1: about barb Uda and they are commons, and I really

1868
02:01:49,360 --> 02:01:54,840
Speaker 1: don't see why. I do see why, but I really

1869
02:01:54,880 --> 02:02:00,000
Speaker 1: believe the solutions these isssues lies in reclaiming the commons,

1870
02:02:00,720 --> 02:02:07,440
Speaker 1: lies in rejecting these colonial and post cluonial governments which

1871
02:02:07,920 --> 02:02:13,600
Speaker 1: based themselves on exclusion and illegality. And bring a boat,

1872
02:02:14,280 --> 02:02:20,680
Speaker 1: participatory local management of the land, by the people, for

1873
02:02:20,800 --> 02:02:24,920
Speaker 1: the people. And that's about it. Thanks, and do you

1874
02:02:24,920 --> 02:02:30,640
Speaker 1: think it was re fascinating? Any any final thoughts, Scare James.

1875
02:02:30,680 --> 02:02:33,560
Speaker 1: My final thought is that we have a live share

1876
02:02:33,560 --> 02:02:36,160
Speaker 1: wonderful And yeah, just the thing I was thinking about

1877
02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:39,360
Speaker 1: as we talked about squatting this one. You will be

1878
02:02:39,400 --> 02:02:43,200
Speaker 1: excluded unless you can pray the cost of entry or

1879
02:02:43,200 --> 02:02:44,920
Speaker 1: work out how to not be excluded, I guess. But

1880
02:02:44,920 --> 02:02:49,480
Speaker 1: it's on the twenty six of October I nearly forgot

1881
02:02:49,480 --> 02:02:53,360
Speaker 1: what month it was, And you can buy tickets on

1882
02:02:53,480 --> 02:02:56,160
Speaker 1: the internet. Yeah, so we're doing this live stream October

1883
02:02:56,200 --> 02:02:59,440
Speaker 1: twenty six, six pm. It is a live virtual event

1884
02:02:59,800 --> 02:03:03,120
Speaker 1: and you can get tickets at moment dot c o

1885
02:03:03,640 --> 02:03:07,600
Speaker 1: slash I see h H will link that in the

1886
02:03:07,600 --> 02:03:28,560
Speaker 1: episode script. Will be a fun, spooky themed light show. Hey, everybody,

1887
02:03:28,640 --> 02:03:31,640
Speaker 1: Robert Evans here and welcome to it could happen here.

1888
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:34,720
Speaker 1: You know, when we started the show, when I did

1889
02:03:34,760 --> 02:03:37,080
Speaker 1: the first season of it, you know, the one about

1890
02:03:37,120 --> 02:03:41,040
Speaker 1: all the Civil War stuff. Back in this was basically

1891
02:03:41,080 --> 02:03:43,960
Speaker 1: a place for me to write long essays explaining my

1892
02:03:44,080 --> 02:03:46,920
Speaker 1: vision of the future and the present. Uh, And people

1893
02:03:47,200 --> 02:03:49,160
Speaker 1: seem to like that a lot. We did a little

1894
02:03:49,160 --> 02:03:52,000
Speaker 1: bit of that at the start of this new Eternal

1895
02:03:52,480 --> 02:03:55,800
Speaker 1: daily season of the show. Um, but obviously over the

1896
02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:58,600
Speaker 1: last year or so, it's it's morphed into something very

1897
02:03:58,640 --> 02:04:02,680
Speaker 1: different and something wonderful and successful, and it's brought a

1898
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:06,680
Speaker 1: lot of new voices, or at least voices people maybe

1899
02:04:06,760 --> 02:04:09,640
Speaker 1: hadn't heard from as much out in front of the audience,

1900
02:04:09,680 --> 02:04:11,720
Speaker 1: and I've been really happy about that. But what I

1901
02:04:11,760 --> 02:04:15,520
Speaker 1: also haven't been doing is writing any more essays about

1902
02:04:15,680 --> 02:04:19,400
Speaker 1: the world and how fucked up shit is. Because you know,

1903
02:04:19,480 --> 02:04:23,120
Speaker 1: I've been managing a bunch of stuff and there's been

1904
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:25,440
Speaker 1: a lot of work to do, but I like doing

1905
02:04:25,480 --> 02:04:27,840
Speaker 1: that stuff, and I think you people like it, So

1906
02:04:28,040 --> 02:04:30,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try to do more of that. And I

1907
02:04:30,640 --> 02:04:33,000
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of start by talking a little bit

1908
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:36,520
Speaker 1: about Silicon Valley. And I'm going to say something at

1909
02:04:36,520 --> 02:04:38,320
Speaker 1: the start of this essay that a lot of people

1910
02:04:38,320 --> 02:04:41,400
Speaker 1: are probably instinctively gonna want to disagree with, which is

1911
02:04:41,440 --> 02:04:45,680
Speaker 1: that Silicon Valley and the tech industry have been gigantic

1912
02:04:45,720 --> 02:04:48,960
Speaker 1: failures by every metric that matters. They have made life

1913
02:04:49,000 --> 02:04:53,040
Speaker 1: comprehensively worse for humanity, and there is no real fact

1914
02:04:53,080 --> 02:04:56,280
Speaker 1: based counter argument to that statement. This is a hard

1915
02:04:56,280 --> 02:04:57,920
Speaker 1: pill for people to swallow. I'm sure a lot of

1916
02:04:57,960 --> 02:05:00,400
Speaker 1: folks are frustrated in me for saying it right now

1917
02:05:00,400 --> 02:05:03,800
Speaker 1: and are thinking of counter arguments. Most people today are

1918
02:05:03,840 --> 02:05:07,000
Speaker 1: critical of the tech industry, obviously, particularly made your social

1919
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:10,360
Speaker 1: media companies, but they still tend to acknowledge the tremendous

1920
02:05:10,400 --> 02:05:13,280
Speaker 1: wealth created by Silicon Valley, as if there's some sort

1921
02:05:13,320 --> 02:05:15,720
Speaker 1: of inherent value to that. Behind a number on a

1922
02:05:15,760 --> 02:05:20,560
Speaker 1: spreadsheet collectively, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook, and Google, the so

1923
02:05:20,600 --> 02:05:23,960
Speaker 1: called Big Five had a seven point five trillion dollar

1924
02:05:24,040 --> 02:05:27,560
Speaker 1: market cap. And every person listening to this keeps a

1925
02:05:27,560 --> 02:05:30,360
Speaker 1: device in their pocket made by or using the software

1926
02:05:30,360 --> 02:05:32,880
Speaker 1: of one or more of these companies. And so when

1927
02:05:32,920 --> 02:05:35,560
Speaker 1: people want to make the counter argument to what I

1928
02:05:35,600 --> 02:05:39,000
Speaker 1: just said, they'll tend to point out some version of this. Uh. Yeah,

1929
02:05:39,040 --> 02:05:41,360
Speaker 1: companies like Facebook have done bad things, but the Internet

1930
02:05:41,440 --> 02:05:43,520
Speaker 1: is still a tool for good. It connects people, YadA

1931
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:46,440
Speaker 1: YadA YadA. Smartphones empower us. You know. There's all these

1932
02:05:46,480 --> 02:05:49,520
Speaker 1: positive things about the internet, to which I will say,

1933
02:05:49,800 --> 02:05:52,600
Speaker 1: present me with your fucking evidence that that has mattered

1934
02:05:52,600 --> 02:05:57,920
Speaker 1: for people really in terms that actually, inaggregate improve their lives.

1935
02:05:58,360 --> 02:06:00,920
Speaker 1: I will show you my arguments to the col dry.

1936
02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:03,360
Speaker 1: In the period of time from Harry Truman's election to

1937
02:06:03,400 --> 02:06:06,560
Speaker 1: the end of the Nixon administration, American productivity on a

1938
02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:09,240
Speaker 1: per capita basis increased at a faster rate than it

1939
02:06:09,280 --> 02:06:12,960
Speaker 1: did at any other point in history. But then something happened.

1940
02:06:13,240 --> 02:06:16,240
Speaker 1: From nineteen seventy three to two thousand and thirteen, income

1941
02:06:16,280 --> 02:06:18,920
Speaker 1: growth was eighty percent slower than it had been in

1942
02:06:18,920 --> 02:06:22,480
Speaker 1: the previous three decades. If productivity had continued to grow

1943
02:06:22,520 --> 02:06:24,840
Speaker 1: at the same rate from nineteen seventy three to two

1944
02:06:24,880 --> 02:06:27,640
Speaker 1: thousand thirteen as it did from nineteen forty six to

1945
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:31,040
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, the economy in two thousand thirteen would

1946
02:06:31,080 --> 02:06:35,000
Speaker 1: have been sixty percent larger than it actually was. Now,

1947
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm going to guess a decent number of the people

1948
02:06:37,200 --> 02:06:39,760
Speaker 1: listening to this grew up watching The Jetsons. I know

1949
02:06:39,880 --> 02:06:41,600
Speaker 1: I did, and for the most part it was a silly,

1950
02:06:41,600 --> 02:06:44,560
Speaker 1: pretty harmless animated show. But at the center of it

1951
02:06:44,600 --> 02:06:47,400
Speaker 1: was a dream about the future that seems unfathomable in

1952
02:06:47,480 --> 02:06:50,520
Speaker 1: light of current events. George Jetson, who was in the

1953
02:06:50,520 --> 02:06:53,880
Speaker 1: show a pretty normal working class guy, worked three hours

1954
02:06:53,880 --> 02:06:55,560
Speaker 1: a day for three days a week. One of the

1955
02:06:55,600 --> 02:06:58,080
Speaker 1: running jokes in the show is that he considered himself

1956
02:06:58,200 --> 02:07:03,600
Speaker 1: overworked despite this idyllic schedule. Now, this was never particularly

1957
02:07:03,680 --> 02:07:05,720
Speaker 1: a focus of the show. It was just kind of

1958
02:07:05,760 --> 02:07:08,280
Speaker 1: something that was mentioned from time to time. And that's

1959
02:07:08,280 --> 02:07:10,480
Speaker 1: because the idea that a work week might just be

1960
02:07:10,720 --> 02:07:13,880
Speaker 1: nine hours in the future wasn't a joke. This was

1961
02:07:13,920 --> 02:07:17,360
Speaker 1: the direction of futurists in the nineteen sixties, looking at

1962
02:07:17,400 --> 02:07:20,120
Speaker 1: that surgeon productivity I just mentioned, and all of the

1963
02:07:20,120 --> 02:07:22,400
Speaker 1: middle class wealth that had been created from the forties

1964
02:07:22,400 --> 02:07:24,760
Speaker 1: through the early sixties. This is the direction they saw

1965
02:07:24,800 --> 02:07:27,640
Speaker 1: us heading in around a decade ago, in a period

1966
02:07:27,680 --> 02:07:30,760
Speaker 1: that was still significantly more optimistic than our current age.

1967
02:07:31,160 --> 02:07:34,080
Speaker 1: The Atlantics. Alexis Madrigal, when on a reading spree of

1968
02:07:34,080 --> 02:07:38,640
Speaker 1: some early twentieth century futurist novels, his conclusion was this quote.

1969
02:07:39,080 --> 02:07:42,920
Speaker 1: Technological optimists sold the world on automation by telling people

1970
02:07:42,920 --> 02:07:45,960
Speaker 1: it would create unimaginable amounts of leisure for them. The

1971
02:07:45,960 --> 02:07:48,200
Speaker 1: big question for the workers of the twenty first century

1972
02:07:48,240 --> 02:07:52,360
Speaker 1: would be how to spend their copious amounts of free time. Now,

1973
02:07:52,720 --> 02:07:55,280
Speaker 1: the future we've actually gotten has given us the opposite

1974
02:07:55,280 --> 02:07:57,520
Speaker 1: of this dream. To try and cover up the rank

1975
02:07:57,520 --> 02:08:00,920
Speaker 1: and rampant ways modern technology has failed. Human think tanks

1976
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:04,280
Speaker 1: funded by venture capitalists and tech gurus produce an endless

1977
02:08:04,320 --> 02:08:08,240
Speaker 1: stream of identical futurist thinker types who write columns about

1978
02:08:08,280 --> 02:08:11,080
Speaker 1: how the world is actually better today than it's ever been.

1979
02:08:11,720 --> 02:08:14,920
Speaker 1: A good example of this would be this June column

1980
02:08:14,920 --> 02:08:18,360
Speaker 1: by Rob Ascar titled the World's getting better, Here's why

1981
02:08:18,400 --> 02:08:22,000
Speaker 1: your brain can't believe it. It opens with this paragraph

1982
02:08:22,160 --> 02:08:24,280
Speaker 1: life has improved for most people around the world over

1983
02:08:24,280 --> 02:08:27,760
Speaker 1: the past generation, temporary pandemics aside. The rub is that

1984
02:08:27,800 --> 02:08:29,920
Speaker 1: you can't get anyone to believe the good news, and

1985
02:08:29,960 --> 02:08:32,839
Speaker 1: the result is a toxic political environment and the potential

1986
02:08:32,840 --> 02:08:35,480
Speaker 1: collapse of democratic norms if too few people feel that

1987
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:39,320
Speaker 1: a stressed system is worth saving. Now, I might point out,

1988
02:08:39,400 --> 02:08:42,000
Speaker 1: for example, that if people don't actually feel like the

1989
02:08:42,080 --> 02:08:46,240
Speaker 1: system is good, perhaps it's not really working well. There's

1990
02:08:46,280 --> 02:08:49,080
Speaker 1: a number of counter arguments you can make to this. Now,

1991
02:08:49,200 --> 02:08:52,520
Speaker 1: two years later, this again was written in June, We've

1992
02:08:52,560 --> 02:08:55,000
Speaker 1: got a massive war in Europe. People are worried about

1993
02:08:55,120 --> 02:08:58,080
Speaker 1: nuclear warfare as a result of that. Again, we've got

1994
02:08:58,080 --> 02:09:01,120
Speaker 1: a degradation of democracy world I that's continued to pace

1995
02:09:01,160 --> 02:09:04,640
Speaker 1: from where it was. We've got soaring inequality, we've got

1996
02:09:04,680 --> 02:09:06,920
Speaker 1: inflation the likes of which a lot of people alive

1997
02:09:06,960 --> 02:09:10,160
Speaker 1: have never seen, myself included prior to this point. And

1998
02:09:10,520 --> 02:09:13,640
Speaker 1: we still have a pandemic. So it's clear that Rob

1999
02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:16,360
Speaker 1: is at least not as smart as he thinks he is,

2000
02:09:16,680 --> 02:09:18,640
Speaker 1: which is what I would say about everyone who makes

2001
02:09:18,800 --> 02:09:21,520
Speaker 1: versions of the same claim that he was making. Now,

2002
02:09:21,560 --> 02:09:23,720
Speaker 1: this doesn't mean I'm saying that life is worse now

2003
02:09:23,800 --> 02:09:26,200
Speaker 1: than it was at some imagined pre lapse arian version

2004
02:09:26,240 --> 02:09:27,680
Speaker 1: of the past. I actually think that's kind of a

2005
02:09:27,760 --> 02:09:29,800
Speaker 1: useless way to think about the past. In the future,

2006
02:09:30,000 --> 02:09:32,160
Speaker 1: there's different things people would have preferred. There's things that

2007
02:09:32,200 --> 02:09:36,000
Speaker 1: are objectively better, there's things that are objectively indebatably worse.

2008
02:09:36,080 --> 02:09:38,760
Speaker 1: You know, that's hard to make those kind of claims

2009
02:09:38,800 --> 02:09:41,920
Speaker 1: about history, especially when they often rely on saying, well,

2010
02:09:42,280 --> 02:09:44,400
Speaker 1: X amount of more people have been pulled out of poverty.

2011
02:09:44,440 --> 02:09:46,840
Speaker 1: And the question to that is, well, I don't know,

2012
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:50,320
Speaker 1: before colonization of Africa, would you say all of those

2013
02:09:50,360 --> 02:09:53,920
Speaker 1: people in what became the colonized parts of Africa were

2014
02:09:53,920 --> 02:09:56,480
Speaker 1: in poverty or were they simply not part of a

2015
02:09:56,560 --> 02:10:00,680
Speaker 1: system that measures poverty and anyway whatever. We can go

2016
02:10:00,720 --> 02:10:03,000
Speaker 1: on and on about that. My point is that the

2017
02:10:03,040 --> 02:10:05,800
Speaker 1: metrics these people used to claim the success of our

2018
02:10:05,840 --> 02:10:09,000
Speaker 1: current system to talk about how wonderful things are today

2019
02:10:09,040 --> 02:10:12,560
Speaker 1: are constantly shifting, and they're widely arbitrary. The same year

2020
02:10:12,640 --> 02:10:15,000
Speaker 1: Rob wrote his stupid column, an in O r C

2021
02:10:15,240 --> 02:10:18,280
Speaker 1: studies showed that Americans self reported being happy at the

2022
02:10:18,320 --> 02:10:22,160
Speaker 1: lowest levels in fifty years. You can quote Jukes statistics

2023
02:10:22,200 --> 02:10:24,920
Speaker 1: about wealthare access to luxury goods all you want. But

2024
02:10:25,040 --> 02:10:28,440
Speaker 1: the modern world and the post two eight financial crash economy,

2025
02:10:28,480 --> 02:10:30,160
Speaker 1: all of which was built in the shade of the

2026
02:10:30,200 --> 02:10:35,040
Speaker 1: tech industry, is making people miserable now. Happiness is obviously

2027
02:10:35,080 --> 02:10:38,080
Speaker 1: not a perfect measure of progress either. Self reporting is

2028
02:10:38,120 --> 02:10:41,280
Speaker 1: always dicey, but things like the consumer price index in

2029
02:10:41,320 --> 02:10:43,720
Speaker 1: per capita income, which are often used by folks on

2030
02:10:43,720 --> 02:10:46,320
Speaker 1: the optimist side, are also juked and jiggered to hell

2031
02:10:46,400 --> 02:10:48,800
Speaker 1: and back. So to provide a bit more of an

2032
02:10:48,800 --> 02:10:51,800
Speaker 1: international scale, I'm going to quote from the Berkeley University's

2033
02:10:51,880 --> 02:10:56,120
Speaker 1: Greater Good magazine. Quote released annually on the International Day

2034
02:10:56,120 --> 02:10:58,880
Speaker 1: of Happiness, the World Happiness Report ranks countries based on

2035
02:10:58,920 --> 02:11:02,280
Speaker 1: their life satisfaction the Gallop World Pole. Residents rate how

2036
02:11:02,320 --> 02:11:04,200
Speaker 1: satisfied they are with their lives in a scale of

2037
02:11:04,280 --> 02:11:06,480
Speaker 1: zero to ten, from the worst possible life to the

2038
02:11:06,520 --> 02:11:09,920
Speaker 1: best possible life. This year's report also analyzes how global

2039
02:11:09,920 --> 02:11:12,520
Speaker 1: happiness has changed over time, based on data stretching back

2040
02:11:12,560 --> 02:11:17,560
Speaker 1: to two thousand five. One trend is very clear. Negative feelings, worry, sadness,

2041
02:11:17,560 --> 02:11:20,120
Speaker 1: and anger have been rising around the world, up by

2042
02:11:20,760 --> 02:11:24,160
Speaker 1: from two thousand ten to two thousand eighteen. The others

2043
02:11:24,160 --> 02:11:26,840
Speaker 1: also found troubling trends and happiness in equality, which is

2044
02:11:26,840 --> 02:11:30,520
Speaker 1: the psychological parallel to income inequality, how much individuals in

2045
02:11:30,560 --> 02:11:33,720
Speaker 1: society differ and how satisfied they are with life. Since

2046
02:11:33,720 --> 02:11:36,919
Speaker 1: two thousand seven, happiness inequality has been rising within countries,

2047
02:11:37,240 --> 02:11:39,560
Speaker 1: meaning that the gap between the unhappy and the happy

2048
02:11:39,600 --> 02:11:42,440
Speaker 1: has been getting wider. This trend is particularly strong in

2049
02:11:42,520 --> 02:11:47,840
Speaker 1: Latin America, Asia and Sub Saharan Africa. And this is

2050
02:11:47,920 --> 02:11:50,120
Speaker 1: kind of getting it. I think, what is an incredibly

2051
02:11:50,160 --> 02:11:52,160
Speaker 1: important point, for one thing, if you want to look

2052
02:11:52,160 --> 02:11:56,240
Speaker 1: at how people have self reported their unhappiness rising. This

2053
02:11:56,600 --> 02:11:59,960
Speaker 1: massive recent surge and unhappiness occurs almost at exactly the

2054
02:12:00,000 --> 02:12:02,960
Speaker 1: period of time that the smartphone takes off and becomes ubiquitous.

2055
02:12:03,440 --> 02:12:06,040
Speaker 1: And the smartphone is such a bafflingly useful device. I

2056
02:12:06,040 --> 02:12:08,200
Speaker 1: would never want to give mine up as a thing

2057
02:12:08,280 --> 02:12:10,760
Speaker 1: that I had access to, And the Internet is an

2058
02:12:10,760 --> 02:12:13,200
Speaker 1: incredibly powerful tool. I wouldn't want to give the Internet

2059
02:12:13,320 --> 02:12:18,120
Speaker 1: up either. But the usefulness and the the undoubtable brilliance

2060
02:12:18,200 --> 02:12:22,120
Speaker 1: behind these products makes it seem inconceivable to argue that

2061
02:12:22,160 --> 02:12:24,480
Speaker 1: they haven't made us better at accomplishing the things that

2062
02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:27,920
Speaker 1: matter to us. But the evidence on this is pretty clear.

2063
02:12:28,200 --> 02:12:29,680
Speaker 1: I want to quote now from a write up in

2064
02:12:29,680 --> 02:12:33,520
Speaker 1: The Atlantic. No matter how aggressively you torture the numbers,

2065
02:12:33,560 --> 02:12:36,160
Speaker 1: the computer age has coincided with a decline in the

2066
02:12:36,280 --> 02:12:39,880
Speaker 1: rate of economic growth. When Chad Civerson, an economist at

2067
02:12:39,880 --> 02:12:42,640
Speaker 1: the University of Chicago's Business School, looked at the question

2068
02:12:42,680 --> 02:12:45,520
Speaker 1: of missing growth, he found that the productivity slowdown has

2069
02:12:45,520 --> 02:12:49,080
Speaker 1: reduced GDP by two points seven trillion dollars since two

2070
02:12:49,120 --> 02:12:52,320
Speaker 1: thousand four. Americans may love their smartphones, but all those

2071
02:12:52,360 --> 02:12:55,840
Speaker 1: free apps aren't worth trillions of dollars. The physical world

2072
02:12:55,880 --> 02:12:58,240
Speaker 1: of the city, the glow of electric powered lights, the

2073
02:12:58,280 --> 02:13:00,680
Speaker 1: rumble of automobiles, the roar of air planes overhead, and

2074
02:13:00,720 --> 02:13:03,680
Speaker 1: subways below is a product of late nineteenth century in

2075
02:13:03,720 --> 02:13:08,440
Speaker 1: early twentieth century invention, the physical environment feels depressingly finished.

2076
02:13:08,680 --> 02:13:11,280
Speaker 1: The bulk of innovation has been shunted into the invisible

2077
02:13:11,280 --> 02:13:14,680
Speaker 1: realm of bites and code. All of that code, technology

2078
02:13:14,680 --> 02:13:18,640
Speaker 1: advocates argue, has increased human ingenuity by allowing individuals to tinker, talk,

2079
02:13:18,680 --> 02:13:22,760
Speaker 1: and trade with unprecedented ease. This certainly feels true. Who

2080
02:13:22,760 --> 02:13:24,720
Speaker 1: could dispute the fact that It's easier than ever to

2081
02:13:24,760 --> 02:13:27,320
Speaker 1: record music, market a video game, or publish an essay,

2082
02:13:27,560 --> 02:13:31,200
Speaker 1: but by most measures, individual innovation is in decline. In

2083
02:13:31,240 --> 02:13:33,800
Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen, Americans were far less likely to

2084
02:13:33,800 --> 02:13:35,960
Speaker 1: start a company than they were in the nineteen eighties.

2085
02:13:36,240 --> 02:13:39,320
Speaker 1: According to the economist Tyler Cohen, the spread of broadband

2086
02:13:39,360 --> 02:13:42,839
Speaker 1: technology has corresponded with a drop off an entrepreneurial activity

2087
02:13:42,880 --> 02:13:46,760
Speaker 1: in almost every city and in almost every industry. Now

2088
02:13:46,840 --> 02:13:48,560
Speaker 1: you might think from all this that I'm out ahead

2089
02:13:48,600 --> 02:13:52,120
Speaker 1: into some sort of techno dumer anti si primitivist rant here.

2090
02:13:52,440 --> 02:13:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm not. Perhaps I should, but I'm not. I am

2091
02:13:55,120 --> 02:13:57,840
Speaker 1: a person who loves technology. I got my start as

2092
02:13:57,880 --> 02:14:00,280
Speaker 1: a journalist. As a tech journalist, I joy as Lee

2093
02:14:00,360 --> 02:14:03,960
Speaker 1: traveled the world for years, visiting conventions looking at new gadgets.

2094
02:14:04,000 --> 02:14:06,240
Speaker 1: And a lot of this was in that pretty wondrous

2095
02:14:06,320 --> 02:14:08,880
Speaker 1: period if you're a gadget nerd from two thousand eight

2096
02:14:08,880 --> 02:14:11,920
Speaker 1: to two thousand eleven, where there were there's these amazing, new,

2097
02:14:12,000 --> 02:14:15,200
Speaker 1: weird sci fi gadgets dropping every single week, stuff that

2098
02:14:15,240 --> 02:14:17,720
Speaker 1: you'd grown up watching and like Star Trek, the next

2099
02:14:17,720 --> 02:14:20,120
Speaker 1: generation suddenly getting mailed to your door for you to

2100
02:14:20,200 --> 02:14:23,720
Speaker 1: test out. I tested hundreds of tablets and smart gadgets

2101
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:26,080
Speaker 1: in that time frame, and there's some really great products

2102
02:14:26,080 --> 02:14:29,000
Speaker 1: that came out from that period. Bluetooth speakers are wonderful.

2103
02:14:29,040 --> 02:14:31,240
Speaker 1: A lot of people, including me, use them happily on

2104
02:14:31,280 --> 02:14:34,520
Speaker 1: a daily basis. But when it comes to legitimately life

2105
02:14:34,640 --> 02:14:37,520
Speaker 1: changing applications of technology that's come to us in the

2106
02:14:37,560 --> 02:14:40,640
Speaker 1: last fifteen years or so, I can really only think

2107
02:14:40,640 --> 02:14:43,800
Speaker 1: of three things. Number one is the ability to navigate

2108
02:14:43,800 --> 02:14:47,320
Speaker 1: by GPS basically everywhere. Number two is the ability to

2109
02:14:47,320 --> 02:14:49,960
Speaker 1: be in constant contact with people around the world. And

2110
02:14:50,040 --> 02:14:52,440
Speaker 1: number three is the ability to store a shipload of

2111
02:14:52,480 --> 02:14:56,600
Speaker 1: media on a portable device. So I'm not anti technology,

2112
02:14:56,680 --> 02:14:58,640
Speaker 1: Nor am I saying that big tech doesn't make things

2113
02:14:58,640 --> 02:15:00,600
Speaker 1: that are cool or useful? And what am I saying

2114
02:15:00,840 --> 02:15:03,120
Speaker 1: we should get rid of this stuff? The point I'm

2115
02:15:03,200 --> 02:15:06,320
Speaker 1: making is that viewed at thirty thousand feet, the tech

2116
02:15:06,360 --> 02:15:09,960
Speaker 1: industry has produced very little of quantifiable value to the

2117
02:15:10,040 --> 02:15:13,160
Speaker 1: human race, and it has caused unfathomable harm at the

2118
02:15:13,200 --> 02:15:16,600
Speaker 1: same time. Now, in my opinion, this has nothing, or

2119
02:15:16,640 --> 02:15:19,320
Speaker 1: at least fairly little to do with how the technology

2120
02:15:19,400 --> 02:15:22,720
Speaker 1: inherently works, and instead has everything to do with the

2121
02:15:22,840 --> 02:15:26,400
Speaker 1: ideology behind the people who developed and who continue to

2122
02:15:26,520 --> 02:15:30,800
Speaker 1: marshal that technology. In nine, two of the smartest guys

2123
02:15:30,800 --> 02:15:34,080
Speaker 1: in the twentieth century by my estimation, Richard Barbrook and

2124
02:15:34,080 --> 02:15:37,680
Speaker 1: Andy Cameron, wrote an essay about the ideology that animated

2125
02:15:37,720 --> 02:15:39,840
Speaker 1: the men who had come to dominate the twenty first

2126
02:15:39,840 --> 02:15:44,720
Speaker 1: century tech industry. They titled their essay the Californian Ideology,

2127
02:15:44,760 --> 02:15:46,360
Speaker 1: and I think it still counts as one of the

2128
02:15:46,400 --> 02:15:50,000
Speaker 1: three or four most incisive accurate essays of that century.

2129
02:15:50,200 --> 02:15:52,320
Speaker 1: The gist of the idea was that as the first

2130
02:15:52,400 --> 02:15:54,360
Speaker 1: wave of the digital boom started to hit in the

2131
02:15:54,400 --> 02:15:57,440
Speaker 1: mid nineteen nineties, the thinkers behind it were fueled by

2132
02:15:57,440 --> 02:16:00,600
Speaker 1: a mix of left wing by a x of left

2133
02:16:00,640 --> 02:16:05,120
Speaker 1: wing egalitarian, often anti status beliefs that got wedded to

2134
02:16:05,240 --> 02:16:09,720
Speaker 1: right wing free market fundamentalist libertarian ideology and created this

2135
02:16:09,840 --> 02:16:13,160
Speaker 1: deeply toxic way of thinking about the future. You can

2136
02:16:13,200 --> 02:16:15,840
Speaker 1: see this in the story of guys like Steve Wozniak,

2137
02:16:16,080 --> 02:16:18,560
Speaker 1: the inventor of the personal computer, who was also a

2138
02:16:18,600 --> 02:16:21,520
Speaker 1: former phone freaker. He committed federal crimes as a kid,

2139
02:16:21,560 --> 02:16:25,080
Speaker 1: hacking the phone system primarily because fuck the man. But

2140
02:16:25,200 --> 02:16:27,760
Speaker 1: then when he's a young man the Waws hooks up

2141
02:16:27,760 --> 02:16:29,920
Speaker 1: with a guy named Steve Jobs, and Jobs is a

2142
02:16:30,040 --> 02:16:32,840
Speaker 1: brilliant but heartless con man who cares about nothing but

2143
02:16:32,920 --> 02:16:37,480
Speaker 1: market dominance. Jobs recognizes the naive brilliance of Steve Wozniak,

2144
02:16:37,560 --> 02:16:39,720
Speaker 1: and he turns it into an engine for wealth creation.

2145
02:16:39,840 --> 02:16:42,840
Speaker 1: At one point, he steals money that Wosniak was owed

2146
02:16:42,879 --> 02:16:45,600
Speaker 1: for a project that they took on together, money Wniac

2147
02:16:45,720 --> 02:16:47,720
Speaker 1: probably would have just given him if he'd asked, and

2148
02:16:47,760 --> 02:16:50,760
Speaker 1: he used it secretly to fund their business, which became Apple.

2149
02:16:51,640 --> 02:16:53,880
Speaker 1: In their essay, Cameron and Barbara, who are much better

2150
02:16:53,879 --> 02:16:57,560
Speaker 1: writers than I, described the Californian ideology this way. The

2151
02:16:57,600 --> 02:17:00,320
Speaker 1: Californian ideology is a mix of cyber and etics, free

2152
02:17:00,320 --> 02:17:04,960
Speaker 1: market economics, and counterculture libertarianism, and is promuligated by magazines

2153
02:17:05,000 --> 02:17:07,400
Speaker 1: such as Wired and Mondo two thousand and preached in

2154
02:17:07,440 --> 02:17:10,039
Speaker 1: the books of Stuart Brand, Kevin Kelly, and others. The

2155
02:17:10,080 --> 02:17:13,160
Speaker 1: New Faith has been embraced by computer nerds, slacker students,

2156
02:17:13,160 --> 02:17:17,320
Speaker 1: thirty something capitalists, hip academics, futurist bureaucrats, and even by

2157
02:17:17,320 --> 02:17:22,280
Speaker 1: the President of the USA himself. Now, the tech industry

2158
02:17:22,320 --> 02:17:25,359
Speaker 1: as we know it got its start courtesy of government money.

2159
02:17:25,440 --> 02:17:27,680
Speaker 1: Everyone knows that the first version of the Internet was

2160
02:17:27,720 --> 02:17:30,880
Speaker 1: developed as part of a Defense Department project, but the

2161
02:17:31,000 --> 02:17:33,560
Speaker 1: entire computer industry, all of the coders and engineers who

2162
02:17:33,560 --> 02:17:36,879
Speaker 1: would form the first generation of Selincom Valley profit engines,

2163
02:17:37,200 --> 02:17:40,000
Speaker 1: all these guys got their start working for or as

2164
02:17:40,040 --> 02:17:43,240
Speaker 1: defense contractors. When the US pulled out of Vietnam, thousands

2165
02:17:43,240 --> 02:17:44,840
Speaker 1: of these people were left out of jobs and they

2166
02:17:44,879 --> 02:17:48,080
Speaker 1: were forced to move into the private sector. Everything worthwhile

2167
02:17:48,160 --> 02:17:50,320
Speaker 1: that's come out of big tech has involved a titanic

2168
02:17:50,360 --> 02:17:52,560
Speaker 1: amount of public funding, one way or the other. And

2169
02:17:52,560 --> 02:17:55,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from that essay again. Almost every major

2170
02:17:55,879 --> 02:17:58,520
Speaker 1: technological advance of the last two hundred years has taken

2171
02:17:58,560 --> 02:18:00,879
Speaker 1: place with the aid of large outs of public money

2172
02:18:00,879 --> 02:18:03,840
Speaker 1: and under a good deal of government influence. The technologies

2173
02:18:03,879 --> 02:18:05,560
Speaker 1: of the computer in the net were invented with the

2174
02:18:05,560 --> 02:18:08,879
Speaker 1: aid of massive state subsidies. For example, the first difference

2175
02:18:08,920 --> 02:18:12,320
Speaker 1: Engine project received a British government grant of five hundred

2176
02:18:12,320 --> 02:18:15,280
Speaker 1: and seventeen thousand, four hundred and seventy pounds a small

2177
02:18:15,320 --> 02:18:18,800
Speaker 1: fortune in eighteen thirty four. From Colossus to EDVAC, from

2178
02:18:18,840 --> 02:18:22,400
Speaker 1: flight simulators to virtual reality, the development of computing has

2179
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:25,600
Speaker 1: depended at key moments on public research handouts or fat

2180
02:18:25,640 --> 02:18:29,360
Speaker 1: contracts with public agencies. The IBM Corporation built the first

2181
02:18:29,400 --> 02:18:32,520
Speaker 1: programmable digital computer only after it was requested to do

2182
02:18:32,600 --> 02:18:35,440
Speaker 1: so by the U. S Defense Department during the Korean War.

2183
02:18:35,879 --> 02:18:38,000
Speaker 1: The result of a lack of state intervention meant that

2184
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:41,199
Speaker 1: Nazi Germany lost the opportunity to build the first electronic

2185
02:18:41,240 --> 02:18:43,800
Speaker 1: computer in the late thirties when the Wehrmacht refused to

2186
02:18:43,840 --> 02:18:47,279
Speaker 1: fund Conrad Zooz, who had pioneered the use of binary code,

2187
02:18:47,320 --> 02:18:51,200
Speaker 1: stored programs, and electronic logic gates. One of the weirdest

2188
02:18:51,200 --> 02:18:54,039
Speaker 1: things about the Californian ideology is that the West Coast

2189
02:18:54,040 --> 02:18:57,720
Speaker 1: itself was a product of massive state intervention. Government dollars

2190
02:18:57,720 --> 02:19:01,119
Speaker 1: were used to build the irrigation systems, highway schools, universities,

2191
02:19:01,120 --> 02:19:04,199
Speaker 1: and other infrastructural projects which make the good life possible.

2192
02:19:04,600 --> 02:19:07,080
Speaker 1: On top of these public subsidies, the West Coast high

2193
02:19:07,080 --> 02:19:09,840
Speaker 1: tech industrial complex has been feasting off the fattest pork

2194
02:19:09,879 --> 02:19:12,840
Speaker 1: barrel in history for decades. The US government has poured

2195
02:19:12,879 --> 02:19:15,720
Speaker 1: billions of tax dollars into buying planes, missiles, electronics, and

2196
02:19:15,800 --> 02:19:19,960
Speaker 1: nuclear bombs from Californian companies. Americans have always had state planning,

2197
02:19:20,040 --> 02:19:23,440
Speaker 1: but they prefer to call it the defense budget. Now

2198
02:19:23,720 --> 02:19:26,760
Speaker 1: this state of affairs is more or less unchanged today.

2199
02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:30,480
Speaker 1: Elon Musk is probably the most celebrated modern tech visionary.

2200
02:19:30,520 --> 02:19:33,959
Speaker 1: Miss Sundry companies have taken nearly five billion dollars in

2201
02:19:34,000 --> 02:19:37,760
Speaker 1: public funding, subsidies, and government support since two thousand fifteen.

2202
02:19:38,400 --> 02:19:42,039
Speaker 1: All of these libertarian visionaries, who push in their political

2203
02:19:42,080 --> 02:19:45,680
Speaker 1: lives for a world of lossyfair economics and corporate sovereignty,

2204
02:19:46,040 --> 02:19:50,080
Speaker 1: only produce value with the help of taxpayer dollars. Period.

2205
02:19:50,520 --> 02:19:53,920
Speaker 1: The irrational exuberance of public financing and the narcissism to

2206
02:19:54,000 --> 02:19:56,920
Speaker 1: ignore its role in innovation has given us a generation

2207
02:19:56,959 --> 02:19:59,880
Speaker 1: of tech industry overlords who seem bound and determined to

2208
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:04,480
Speaker 1: destroy their own creations. Steve Jobs represented the most successful

2209
02:20:04,600 --> 02:20:08,959
Speaker 1: and probably the most intelligent manifestation of the Californian ideology.

2210
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:12,200
Speaker 1: Every tech industry ghoul currently boiling away fortunes for the

2211
02:20:12,240 --> 02:20:14,959
Speaker 1: sake of their ego. I'm thinking of Zuckerberg and Musk

2212
02:20:15,040 --> 02:20:18,920
Speaker 1: most prominently right now is trying to be him. Steve's

2213
02:20:18,959 --> 02:20:21,800
Speaker 1: skill was being able to perfectly inhabit the form of

2214
02:20:21,800 --> 02:20:24,160
Speaker 1: a visionary, and he was so good at doing this

2215
02:20:24,320 --> 02:20:27,519
Speaker 1: that he convinced this generation they could follow in his footsteps.

2216
02:20:28,400 --> 02:20:31,520
Speaker 1: But Steve Jobs was only ever playing at being a creator,

2217
02:20:31,640 --> 02:20:35,040
Speaker 1: at being an inventor. His skill was not in making things.

2218
02:20:35,240 --> 02:20:38,080
Speaker 1: He had other people to do the making. Steve was

2219
02:20:38,120 --> 02:20:41,800
Speaker 1: an exceptional confidence man, and like all good confidence men,

2220
02:20:42,160 --> 02:20:45,039
Speaker 1: he was able to make money because he understood on

2221
02:20:45,120 --> 02:20:49,320
Speaker 1: a deep level what other human beings wanted. This skill

2222
02:20:49,360 --> 02:20:52,200
Speaker 1: allowed him to lock Apple into spending hundreds of millions

2223
02:20:52,200 --> 02:20:54,080
Speaker 1: of dollars on R and D for what would become

2224
02:20:54,080 --> 02:20:56,959
Speaker 1: the first proper smartphone, and for a while, he was

2225
02:20:57,000 --> 02:20:59,640
Speaker 1: just having them toss that money into an apparent chasm,

2226
02:20:59,680 --> 02:21:03,200
Speaker 1: repeatedly turning back iterations of the product that weren't quite right,

2227
02:21:03,520 --> 02:21:05,480
Speaker 1: on the strength of his belief that when they got

2228
02:21:05,480 --> 02:21:08,680
Speaker 1: it right, it would be worth it. In the year since,

2229
02:21:08,720 --> 02:21:10,879
Speaker 1: we've seen many wanna be Steves try to follow in

2230
02:21:10,959 --> 02:21:13,800
Speaker 1: his footsteps, igniting tens of billions of dollars of venture

2231
02:21:13,840 --> 02:21:17,280
Speaker 1: capital for absolutely nothing. One of the best examples would

2232
02:21:17,280 --> 02:21:19,720
Speaker 1: be Uber They lost eight point five billion dollars in

2233
02:21:19,720 --> 02:21:24,360
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen six point eight billion dollars. Once upon

2234
02:21:24,400 --> 02:21:26,840
Speaker 1: a time, The understanding the jobs and vision of what

2235
02:21:26,959 --> 02:21:29,520
Speaker 1: Uber could be was that all of this ignited VC

2236
02:21:29,760 --> 02:21:33,160
Speaker 1: cash would be worthwhile because eventually the company would succeed

2237
02:21:33,200 --> 02:21:36,680
Speaker 1: in replacing human drivers with autonomous cars, cutting out the

2238
02:21:36,720 --> 02:21:42,480
Speaker 1: primary cost in the entire professional driving industry, and making

2239
02:21:42,760 --> 02:21:45,640
Speaker 1: the potential for a shipload of profit. But after investing

2240
02:21:45,680 --> 02:21:48,280
Speaker 1: more than a billion dollars in self driving cars, Uber

2241
02:21:48,400 --> 02:21:51,480
Speaker 1: sold their entire autonomous vehicle division off at a loss.

2242
02:21:51,879 --> 02:21:55,080
Speaker 1: All of that expense had resulted in self driving cars

2243
02:21:55,120 --> 02:21:59,760
Speaker 1: that averaged one half mile travel per accident. Despite this,

2244
02:22:00,080 --> 02:22:03,400
Speaker 1: after a two point six billion dollar loss in August two,

2245
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:07,800
Speaker 1: Uber stock sword. Now the realities of what generates profit

2246
02:22:07,840 --> 02:22:10,560
Speaker 1: and loss in the tech industry have been completely divorced

2247
02:22:10,560 --> 02:22:13,920
Speaker 1: from productive reality or value created. For quite some time.

2248
02:22:14,440 --> 02:22:18,440
Speaker 1: The delamination of real value in big tech happens subtly.

2249
02:22:18,640 --> 02:22:20,880
Speaker 1: It's not hard to see why Apple, who created a

2250
02:22:20,879 --> 02:22:23,280
Speaker 1: device every human being wanted to have in their pocket,

2251
02:22:23,720 --> 02:22:27,280
Speaker 1: became worth a shipload more money, right, pretty obvious. The

2252
02:22:27,360 --> 02:22:30,920
Speaker 1: value case for Google's core business search is also pretty obvious.

2253
02:22:31,160 --> 02:22:33,680
Speaker 1: And as much as I hate Facebook, it became initially

2254
02:22:33,720 --> 02:22:37,040
Speaker 1: successful because it provided people with something of real value

2255
02:22:37,320 --> 02:22:39,680
Speaker 1: a way to stay in touch with human beings they

2256
02:22:39,680 --> 02:22:42,879
Speaker 1: had met over the course of their lives. Younger folks

2257
02:22:42,920 --> 02:22:45,199
Speaker 1: may find this odd because they've grown up with the Internet,

2258
02:22:45,240 --> 02:22:47,720
Speaker 1: but as a kid, I can remember very vividly my

2259
02:22:47,800 --> 02:22:50,199
Speaker 1: parents talking about the friends they'd had in high school

2260
02:22:50,200 --> 02:22:53,039
Speaker 1: and in college, and how a lifetime of moving regularly

2261
02:22:53,080 --> 02:22:56,000
Speaker 1: had severed many of the connections they'd valued with these people.

2262
02:22:56,560 --> 02:22:59,120
Speaker 1: When I joined Facebook and my freshman year of college,

2263
02:22:59,440 --> 02:23:02,200
Speaker 1: I found real value and the ability to maintain and

2264
02:23:02,240 --> 02:23:05,640
Speaker 1: sometimes even build stronger connections with people I would otherwise

2265
02:23:05,640 --> 02:23:08,640
Speaker 1: have lost touch with entirely. There is the core of

2266
02:23:08,680 --> 02:23:11,920
Speaker 1: something good, or something at least valued inherently by people

2267
02:23:12,080 --> 02:23:15,360
Speaker 1: in Facebook, and that's true with most, if not all,

2268
02:23:15,400 --> 02:23:18,920
Speaker 1: of the Big five companies. When people reflexively leap to

2269
02:23:18,959 --> 02:23:21,760
Speaker 1: defend the tech industry as an engine of innovation, they

2270
02:23:21,760 --> 02:23:24,360
Speaker 1: can point to these successes. But the point that I'm

2271
02:23:24,400 --> 02:23:27,440
Speaker 1: making isn't that no good ideas come out of Silicon Valley,

2272
02:23:27,720 --> 02:23:30,520
Speaker 1: or that there isn't anything valuable that is involved in

2273
02:23:30,600 --> 02:23:33,600
Speaker 1: what these companies do. It's that the endless quest for

2274
02:23:33,680 --> 02:23:37,880
Speaker 1: profit and the narcissism of this Californian ideology lead inevitably

2275
02:23:37,920 --> 02:23:41,720
Speaker 1: to the destruction of whatever value the industry creates. This

2276
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:44,360
Speaker 1: is why none of these innovations have actually led to

2277
02:23:44,480 --> 02:23:47,080
Speaker 1: surges and productivity, why none of them have made us

2278
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:50,160
Speaker 1: any happier, which I think might be more important. Any

2279
02:23:50,200 --> 02:23:53,800
Speaker 1: potential these creations had was smothered by the ideology that

2280
02:23:53,879 --> 02:23:58,039
Speaker 1: drives Silicon Valley money. Facebook took the connections that they'd

2281
02:23:58,080 --> 02:24:01,000
Speaker 1: made with people and used them to feed those same

2282
02:24:01,080 --> 02:24:05,240
Speaker 1: people rage bait. They destroyed the open Internet, shuttered countless

2283
02:24:05,280 --> 02:24:08,440
Speaker 1: local news sites, put tons of people out of business,

2284
02:24:08,440 --> 02:24:13,040
Speaker 1: while algorithmically pushing millions of folks around the world towards

2285
02:24:13,080 --> 02:24:17,520
Speaker 1: whatever kept them angriest and most online. Google spent billions

2286
02:24:17,560 --> 02:24:20,520
Speaker 1: on an endless stream of spinoff products like Google Plus

2287
02:24:20,520 --> 02:24:24,039
Speaker 1: and Google Glass, which were nearly all catastrophic failures, at

2288
02:24:24,120 --> 02:24:27,080
Speaker 1: least on a financial sense, and all the while they

2289
02:24:27,120 --> 02:24:30,640
Speaker 1: gradually turned the search results they prided themselves on into

2290
02:24:30,640 --> 02:24:34,039
Speaker 1: a sponsored ad feed. Google is less useful now than

2291
02:24:34,040 --> 02:24:35,840
Speaker 1: it was a couple of years ago. You noticed this

2292
02:24:35,879 --> 02:24:38,080
Speaker 1: immediately if you just get on there and start asking

2293
02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:41,840
Speaker 1: it questions. Elon Musk has taken the visionary technology that

2294
02:24:41,920 --> 02:24:45,440
Speaker 1: underpins the Tesla, all created by other people and used

2295
02:24:45,440 --> 02:24:48,439
Speaker 1: the clout from that to shatter any chance of California

2296
02:24:48,480 --> 02:24:51,840
Speaker 1: developing a high speed rail system. By the way, in

2297
02:24:51,920 --> 02:24:56,240
Speaker 1: June of two, Tesla stock value plunged seventy five billion dollars,

2298
02:24:56,480 --> 02:24:58,879
Speaker 1: which is substantially more money than the company has ever

2299
02:24:58,959 --> 02:25:02,920
Speaker 1: actually made. Elucidating the full scale of the failure of

2300
02:25:02,959 --> 02:25:06,720
Speaker 1: Silicon Valley an American techno optimism would take more time

2301
02:25:06,760 --> 02:25:09,120
Speaker 1: than I'm able to spend right now, So instead, I

2302
02:25:09,160 --> 02:25:11,760
Speaker 1: want to talk about the idea that's behind so much

2303
02:25:11,760 --> 02:25:14,040
Speaker 1: of the recent big failures that we've seen from big

2304
02:25:14,080 --> 02:25:17,560
Speaker 1: tech stuff like Meta pissing away ten billion dollars half

2305
02:25:17,600 --> 02:25:20,039
Speaker 1: the budget of NASA in a year to create a

2306
02:25:20,040 --> 02:25:24,880
Speaker 1: worse version of vr chat. The idea is called blitz scaling,

2307
02:25:25,240 --> 02:25:28,240
Speaker 1: and it basically means attempting to achieve massive scale at

2308
02:25:28,280 --> 02:25:31,080
Speaker 1: breakneck speed. You take big risks and you spend huge

2309
02:25:31,080 --> 02:25:33,640
Speaker 1: amounts of money very quickly to try enforce apps or

2310
02:25:33,640 --> 02:25:36,880
Speaker 1: other products onto the market that are then adopted rapidly

2311
02:25:36,959 --> 02:25:40,279
Speaker 1: by huge numbers of people. This brings in a shipload

2312
02:25:40,280 --> 02:25:42,039
Speaker 1: of VC money, and as a way that you can

2313
02:25:42,040 --> 02:25:44,680
Speaker 1: make a fortune. In the years since Jobs brought the

2314
02:25:44,720 --> 02:25:47,320
Speaker 1: first iPhone out, on stage. This has become the dominant

2315
02:25:47,320 --> 02:25:51,080
Speaker 1: model of Silicon Valley entrepreneurship. Everyone is looking for the

2316
02:25:51,120 --> 02:25:54,120
Speaker 1: next iPhone, right, something that can take over an industry,

2317
02:25:54,120 --> 02:25:56,560
Speaker 1: something you can take over the world that rapidly, that

2318
02:25:56,600 --> 02:26:00,480
Speaker 1: can change human life almost overnight. In Funding Calls, Mark

2319
02:26:00,560 --> 02:26:04,039
Speaker 1: Zuckerberg says this. In Funding Calls, Mark Zuckerberg says this

2320
02:26:04,200 --> 02:26:08,240
Speaker 1: very directly, comparing his company's metaverse dreams to the new smartphone.

2321
02:26:08,760 --> 02:26:12,199
Speaker 1: The thing that Mark misses because his ideology renders it invisible,

2322
02:26:12,560 --> 02:26:15,400
Speaker 1: is that Steve Jobs didn't make people want the iPhone.

2323
02:26:15,640 --> 02:26:18,440
Speaker 1: He was able to figure out what they wanted already,

2324
02:26:18,680 --> 02:26:21,120
Speaker 1: what they had talked about wanting for decades, starting with

2325
02:26:21,160 --> 02:26:24,520
Speaker 1: trike orders and communicators on Star Trek, and he lashed

2326
02:26:24,560 --> 02:26:27,640
Speaker 1: his dev team until they built the damn thing. Now.

2327
02:26:28,000 --> 02:26:31,879
Speaker 1: The metaverse has some analogs in fiction, including the thing

2328
02:26:31,920 --> 02:26:35,000
Speaker 1: that it gets its name from, um, but number one,

2329
02:26:35,720 --> 02:26:39,520
Speaker 1: most depictions of the metaverse in fiction are not aspirational

2330
02:26:39,720 --> 02:26:43,760
Speaker 1: things people want their dystopian uh, there's no evidence that

2331
02:26:43,800 --> 02:26:46,760
Speaker 1: people actually want this thing that he's igniting a fortune

2332
02:26:46,760 --> 02:26:49,280
Speaker 1: to build, or that they'd spend meaningful periods of time

2333
02:26:49,280 --> 02:26:51,080
Speaker 1: in it if it existed. There's not a lot of

2334
02:26:51,120 --> 02:26:53,280
Speaker 1: polling on this data, but one in seven but one

2335
02:26:53,360 --> 02:26:56,119
Speaker 1: seventeen thousand person survey I found showed less than twenty

2336
02:26:56,560 --> 02:26:59,959
Speaker 1: respondents respect expressing an interest in meta in a metaverse

2337
02:27:00,520 --> 02:27:03,240
Speaker 1: like the one Zuck is trying to build. The last

2338
02:27:03,280 --> 02:27:06,280
Speaker 1: time Facebook provided any kind of information about how many

2339
02:27:06,320 --> 02:27:08,440
Speaker 1: people are on Horizon Worlds, which is kind of the

2340
02:27:08,440 --> 02:27:11,200
Speaker 1: core of their metaverse efforts, it was somewhere around three

2341
02:27:11,480 --> 02:27:14,359
Speaker 1: dred thousand people in the most recent quarter. They declined

2342
02:27:14,400 --> 02:27:16,480
Speaker 1: to provide an update to those numbers, which suggests the

2343
02:27:16,560 --> 02:27:19,800
Speaker 1: number has not increased um And if you just want

2344
02:27:19,800 --> 02:27:22,520
Speaker 1: to look at what happens when people create a digital

2345
02:27:22,560 --> 02:27:25,760
Speaker 1: product that actually has a strong base of interest, look

2346
02:27:25,800 --> 02:27:28,800
Speaker 1: at how quickly World of Warcraft went from, you know,

2347
02:27:29,040 --> 02:27:32,040
Speaker 1: a thing that very few people outside of nerds would

2348
02:27:32,040 --> 02:27:35,600
Speaker 1: have known much about, to a thing that was entirely mainstream,

2349
02:27:35,680 --> 02:27:39,640
Speaker 1: millions of users, regular references to it on television. You're

2350
02:27:39,680 --> 02:27:41,760
Speaker 1: just not seeing that with any of this metaverse ship

2351
02:27:41,840 --> 02:27:45,640
Speaker 1: because there's nothing in it that people actually want. The

2352
02:27:45,760 --> 02:27:49,400
Speaker 1: sheer hollowness of big tech is starting to become financially

2353
02:27:49,440 --> 02:27:53,320
Speaker 1: obvious to Facebook. Stock has lost fifty seven percent of

2354
02:27:53,360 --> 02:27:57,000
Speaker 1: its value in the last year. Amazon is down Google

2355
02:27:57,040 --> 02:28:00,920
Speaker 1: by and even Apple has fallen by fourteen sent More

2356
02:28:00,959 --> 02:28:02,959
Speaker 1: to the point, I think any honest person has to

2357
02:28:03,040 --> 02:28:05,280
Speaker 1: look at the last fifteen years or so in which

2358
02:28:05,320 --> 02:28:08,400
Speaker 1: these companies have ruled our economic and social lives and asked,

2359
02:28:08,840 --> 02:28:11,800
Speaker 1: are we better off now? Over the course of the

2360
02:28:11,879 --> 02:28:16,000
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, productivity and income rose at unprecedented rates. There

2361
02:28:16,040 --> 02:28:18,400
Speaker 1: was a lot of brutality in this process, right. We talked,

2362
02:28:18,520 --> 02:28:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, on behind the Bastards regularly about all of

2363
02:28:21,040 --> 02:28:23,720
Speaker 1: the horrible labor things that happened in the nineteenth century.

2364
02:28:24,400 --> 02:28:26,640
Speaker 1: It also marked the beginning of the fossil fuel age,

2365
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:28,760
Speaker 1: which may well kill us all. But while all this

2366
02:28:28,879 --> 02:28:31,120
Speaker 1: was going on, another thing that happened is wages for

2367
02:28:31,160 --> 02:28:33,360
Speaker 1: the working class doubled in the first half of the

2368
02:28:33,400 --> 02:28:37,240
Speaker 1: nineteenth century, and the second half. Life expectancy rose faster

2369
02:28:37,320 --> 02:28:40,120
Speaker 1: than it ever had before as well, and that continued

2370
02:28:40,160 --> 02:28:43,360
Speaker 1: through the first part of the twentieth century. Now, near

2371
02:28:43,360 --> 02:28:46,280
Speaker 1: the end of the first quarter of the twenty one century,

2372
02:28:46,360 --> 02:28:49,279
Speaker 1: we're not seeing that kind of movement. The United States

2373
02:28:49,320 --> 02:28:52,119
Speaker 1: is now ending its second consecutive year of declining life

2374
02:28:52,120 --> 02:28:55,160
Speaker 1: expectancy for the first time in any of our lifetimes,

2375
02:28:55,280 --> 02:28:58,959
Speaker 1: and real average wage adjusted for inflation, has remained flat

2376
02:28:59,000 --> 02:29:03,959
Speaker 1: for almost half a injury progress has flatlined, and nothing

2377
02:29:04,000 --> 02:29:07,200
Speaker 1: about how brilliant the modern tech industry is or how

2378
02:29:07,240 --> 02:29:10,480
Speaker 1: cool some of these gadgets and products are can change

2379
02:29:10,520 --> 02:29:17,600
Speaker 1: those fundamental facts. It's a failure. Hey, We'll be back

2380
02:29:17,640 --> 02:29:20,879
Speaker 1: Monday with more episodes every week from now until the

2381
02:29:20,879 --> 02:29:23,400
Speaker 1: heat death of the universe. It Could Happen Here is

2382
02:29:23,400 --> 02:29:26,120
Speaker 1: a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from

2383
02:29:26,120 --> 02:29:29,080
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media, visit our website cool zone media dot com,

2384
02:29:29,200 --> 02:29:30,920
Speaker 1: or check us out on the I Heart Radio app,

2385
02:29:30,959 --> 02:29:34,160
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

2386
02:29:34,160 --> 02:29:36,879
Speaker 1: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at

2387
02:29:36,879 --> 02:29:40,160
Speaker 1: cool zone Media dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.