Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, and I do Part two. This is psychologist
Speaker 1: doctor Hillary Culture taking over the pod today. So excited
Speaker 1: to be here. I've been on the show a couple
Speaker 1: of times, but as a refresher. I am a licensed
Speaker 1: clinical psychologist who's done a ton of work in the
Speaker 1: area of relationships. I help couples as well as individuals
Speaker 1: in all areas of life before marriage, during marriage, separated, divorced,
Speaker 1: high conflict, divorce, any stage of relationship is an area
Speaker 1: that I love to delvin and is part of the
Speaker 1: work that I do. And today I'm extra excited because
Speaker 1: it looks like we're going right in that arena. I'm
Speaker 1: going to answer some of your email questions and some
Speaker 1: of your voicemail questions, so let's dive right in. We
Speaker 1: have a combo of some listener email questions and some voicemails,
Speaker 1: so I'm going to go to my first listener question,
Speaker 1: and this one is from anonymous. I want to know
Speaker 1: how to stop overthinking the beginning of relationships. I find
Speaker 1: myself over analyzing texts, assuming I know someone's intentions before
Speaker 1: they've had the chance to show me who they are,
Speaker 1: and creating a version of them in my head based
Speaker 1: on my own fears or past experiences. How do you
Speaker 1: stop doing that, stay present and give someone a genuine
Speaker 1: chance to show you who they are instead of who
Speaker 1: you're afraid they'll be. This one is a good one
Speaker 1: and juicy and loaded and so relatable that early relationship
Speaker 1: angst is an inherent part of the risk profile file
Speaker 1: associated with entering into a psychological intimate connection with someone,
Speaker 1: and I have a couple of thoughts about how to
Speaker 1: manage it and how to acknowledge that it's part of
Speaker 1: the process. So, starting from where I ended, engaging in
Speaker 1: an intimate relationship both physically, emotionally, etc. Does have a
Speaker 1: risk profile, and so being able to recognize that part
Speaker 1: of it is going to be guiding yourself to accept
Speaker 1: that there's going to be nerves involved, there's going to
Speaker 1: be fraught feelings involved, and there's going to be moments
Speaker 1: where you're going to feel vulnerable. And so instead of
Speaker 1: trying to guide yourself to not feel those feelings, the
Speaker 1: question becomes how do I acknowledge those feelings, have compassion
Speaker 1: for those feelings, and manage those feelings, and how do
Speaker 1: I want to show up on the back of those feelings?
Speaker 1: And so I think I'm making a really important distinction,
Speaker 1: because the edict that somehow you could eliminate those feelings
Speaker 1: is to pressure filed. It's more about, Okay, so those
Speaker 1: feelings are here, what do I do with them? And
Speaker 1: at the beginning of a relationship, trying to remind yourself
Speaker 1: that you don't know someone, that you don't have data
Speaker 1: around them, and that you're really in an investigative kind
Speaker 1: of collective mode and you're trying to gather information about
Speaker 1: who they are, and so trying to extrapolate that data
Speaker 1: into making predictions about the future is sort of a
Speaker 1: poor use of time and energy. So I would recommend
Speaker 1: two things. One, when the feelings come of fear around
Speaker 1: what do they mean? How are they representing themselves? Do
Speaker 1: they like me? Do they pick me? Is he going
Speaker 1: to call? What does this text mean? Taking a pause
Speaker 1: and recognizing that, like right, some of this is just
Speaker 1: generalized anxiety around the natural hope and potential disappointment that
Speaker 1: comes from engaging in the possibility of finding a relationship
Speaker 1: and trying to overanalyze bits of data into making huge
Speaker 1: meaning at the beginning of a relationship is like using
Speaker 1: I don't know like the onion to get your daily news.
Speaker 1: It's just not a credible source. You need more experience
Speaker 1: and more time with someone to make meaning about who
Speaker 1: they are and how they feel about you. And the
Speaker 1: other thing I wanted to recommend it this is a
Speaker 1: big one, is that we often find ourselves in relationships
Speaker 1: thinking about how does this person feel about me? Do
Speaker 1: they pick me? Are they oriented toward me? Are they
Speaker 1: putting energy into me? And we forget to ask ourselves
Speaker 1: how we feel around them, how do they make me feel?
Speaker 1: What kind of energy am I getting from them? How
Speaker 1: do I feel about how they move through the world,
Speaker 1: How do I feel about how they treat me, how
Speaker 1: they communicate with me, how they resolve conflicticked And if
Speaker 1: we diversify our analysis of not just being around how
Speaker 1: they feel about us, but being around how we feel
Speaker 1: about them, it gives us a sense of empowerment. So
Speaker 1: it is a fraud part of a relationship that beginning
Speaker 1: so normalizing yet but realizing that you can curate internal
Speaker 1: tools so that you feel a little more empowered. All right,
Speaker 1: let's see what our next listener question is. This one
Speaker 1: is from Lyric and she's talking about her experience around
Speaker 1: divorce and so there are a lot of listeners that
Speaker 1: may be able to relate to this. She says, I
Speaker 1: got divorced last year and we've been together since high school.
Speaker 1: I immediately got into another relationship after the split, and
Speaker 1: now my current boyfriend is asking what the next steps
Speaker 1: are We aren't on the same timeline. Does this mean
Speaker 1: our relationship is likely not going to work out? How
Speaker 1: do I tell him I want to go slow with
Speaker 1: our hurting his feelings? This issue itself, the question is
Speaker 1: so important, but the answer encompasses more than just this context.
Speaker 1: And this really is about one's ability to communicate authentically
Speaker 1: and honestly in the context of a relationship. And so
Speaker 1: I'll break that down in a moment. But getting to
Speaker 1: her specific, so she was divorced, she quickly got into
Speaker 1: a new relationship with lots of people have lots of
Speaker 1: feelings about that. People like to think about whether or
Speaker 1: not getting into a relationship quickly is quote bad or okay,
Speaker 1: or that there's some clear amount of time that's right
Speaker 1: in terms of waiting until one days again after a breakup.
Speaker 1: I don't really subscribe to that. I think any experience
Speaker 1: that one has post a fraud relationship can be practice,
Speaker 1: can be playful, can be fun. It's really about being
Speaker 1: connected to your own in tensions and your own internal
Speaker 1: feeling state, rather than being overly concerned about how other
Speaker 1: people are viewing it or what your community is saying
Speaker 1: around timing. But it appears this person gotten to Lara
Speaker 1: gotten too a relationship quickly afterwards, and now her current
Speaker 1: boyfriend is asking what the next steps are and it
Speaker 1: sounds like he is wanting to move forward more quickly
Speaker 1: than she is. Does this automatically mean the relationship won't work?
Speaker 1: The answers, I don't know, and she doesn't know either,
Speaker 1: And the reason why she doesn't know is because she
Speaker 1: hasn't directly communicated to her authentic feeling state around this.
Speaker 1: And this is the key, and this is why this
Speaker 1: question is both about the thing, the divorce, and timing
Speaker 1: timing posts a divorce, but it's also about communication. It's
Speaker 1: hard to say hard things in relationships, and yet it's
Speaker 1: one of the keys to relationships staying dynamic and connected
Speaker 1: and authentic. And so recommendation here is to sit down
Speaker 1: with him and say very directly that it appears we
Speaker 1: have different ideas about timing around this relationship and that's
Speaker 1: a potential obstacle. It scares me to have this conversation
Speaker 1: because I'm afraid it could mean that we'll find we
Speaker 1: can't be together. But nonetheless, I wanted to take the
Speaker 1: risk because I care about you so much and sit
Speaker 1: down and talk about where's your head at in terms
Speaker 1: of timing, where my head is at in terms of
Speaker 1: my authentic feelings around timing, and is there something that
Speaker 1: we can come to that's a mutual compromise that's good
Speaker 1: enough for both of us. And so when people talk
Speaker 1: about compromise, this is really what it looks like, sitting
Speaker 1: down respectfully, coming from your adult centered place and saying,
Speaker 1: where can we come together on this issue that feels
Speaker 1: good enough for both of us and feels like a sacrifice,
Speaker 1: feels like a compromise versus a sacrifice, compromise versus a sacrifice,
Speaker 1: especially the beginning of a relationship. So she was asking
Speaker 1: about how she has this conversation without hurting his feelings.
Speaker 1: And it's an interesting way to frame the dilemma because
Speaker 1: I think there's a sense that we often have that
Speaker 1: we can be in relationships with others without ever hurting
Speaker 1: their feelings or ever disappointing them, and that's not really
Speaker 1: a thing we want to do. Communication that's tricky in
Speaker 1: a respectful manner, in a digestible manner, But we can't
Speaker 1: operate as if we're never going to disappoint somewhere or
Speaker 1: never going to hurt their feelings. It's really about how
Speaker 1: we say things and how we come together after something
Speaker 1: feels divisive or fraud. So my summary is to be gentle, honest, authentic,
Speaker 1: and vulnerable and have a real discussion about where there
Speaker 1: might be alignment and face the possibility that it might
Speaker 1: not work, but embrace possibility that it might. The only
Speaker 1: way to know is to have that conversation. Lyric, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to do one more email. Then after this
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pivot to a voicemail. So this one is
Speaker 1: from Alisa, and she says, I find myself ruminating on
Speaker 1: negative thoughts since my last relationship ended. I'm in my
Speaker 1: late fifties, don't have kids, and have been single a
Speaker 1: long time. That's in capital letters, the long What can
Speaker 1: I do when I start to negatively spiral so it
Speaker 1: doesn't offset my entire day. It's a really good question.
Speaker 1: Once again, I can answer the specific question, and it's
Speaker 1: sort of based in the realm of relationship stuff, but
Speaker 1: the tools I'm going to recommend are useful for any
Speaker 1: set of tricky feelings, which is essentially, what do I
Speaker 1: do when I'm consumed with negative thoughts that take away
Speaker 1: from my day and make it hard to move through
Speaker 1: my day with positivity or momentum. In this case, Lisa's
Speaker 1: really struggling since her last relationship and probably feeling some
Speaker 1: sense of hopelessness and sadness and pain around being single
Speaker 1: and what her future prospects look like very real and
Speaker 1: so how do we move through a day when we
Speaker 1: have very real pain points but don't want it to
Speaker 1: consume us? And so I have some very specific notions
Speaker 1: around this that I talk about a lot with my clients,
Speaker 1: and that is kind of a twofold process, and I
Speaker 1: sort of alluded to this earlier, which is it is
Speaker 1: really important when we have negative feelings to not move
Speaker 1: away from it, paradoxically, to not suppress it, to not
Speaker 1: dismiss it, deny it, minimize it. Why because if we
Speaker 1: do that, we become more symptomatic. What I mean is
Speaker 1: that if we suppress hard feelings, eventually they catch up
Speaker 1: with us, and how they catch up with us is
Speaker 1: more involuntary, meaning we get agitated, we have trouble sleeping,
Speaker 1: we eat too much, we too little, we overwork, underwork,
Speaker 1: et cetera. There's some way in which we'll have emotional
Speaker 1: rent to pay if we don't safely deal with our
Speaker 1: tricky feelings. And so I would recommend facing those feelings
Speaker 1: on a daily basis, maybe setting aside some quote worry
Speaker 1: time if it's resonant right, so that like ooh, I
Speaker 1: woke up, Maybe a Lisa wakes up and she's feeling
Speaker 1: these really negative feelings and being really gentle with herself
Speaker 1: that like, there they are again. I'm feeling that negative sense,
Speaker 1: I feel that foreboding feeling about my day. I'm going
Speaker 1: to really pause and honor these feelings. Maybe I journal
Speaker 1: about them, Maybe I sit and think about them. Maybe
Speaker 1: I call a safe other, maybe I have a therapy appointment.
Speaker 1: But I find a safe outlet to get them up
Speaker 1: and out. And it's not so much about solving them,
Speaker 1: it's about acknowledging them. I feel lonely, I feel sad,
Speaker 1: I feel hopeless about my romantic prospects in the future.
Speaker 1: I'm just sitting with these honest, real, authentic human feelings.
Speaker 1: I'm not broken, I'm not flawed, it's just real. And
Speaker 1: setting aside concrete time for worried feelings is really healthy
Speaker 1: because they don't get stuck inside. I like to recommend
Speaker 1: even putting a timer around it. Maybe we set our
Speaker 1: phone for ten minutes, fifteen minutes, twenty minutes. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: recommend more than thirty minutes, like really delving into the
Speaker 1: pain and creating sacred space for them. But here's the
Speaker 1: part that I think Alisa is mostly asking about, which
Speaker 1: is what then so it doesn't consume your whole day,
Speaker 1: then being very deliberate, very intentional, but very gentle around. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I've set aside time for these worried feelings. I'm
Speaker 1: going to gently urge myself to put them away. Does
Speaker 1: that mean they magically disappear? Of course not. And this
Speaker 1: is where the work begins, because of course they don't
Speaker 1: magically disappear. But by telling our elves that we're going
Speaker 1: to seek to compartmentalize the feelings, we start building new
Speaker 1: neural pathways. And this gets like a little tricky, but
Speaker 1: let me see if I can break it down. We
Speaker 1: have these neural pathways that repeat quickly involuntarily. We have
Speaker 1: a negative thought, we go all the way to the
Speaker 1: undesired outcome, which is I'm consumed with negative feelings and
Speaker 1: feel hopeless. And that's what she's talking about, and that
Speaker 1: can make up a pattern of our day if it
Speaker 1: goes uninterrupted day after day after day. So we need
Speaker 1: to interrupt the neural pathway so it doesn't travel quite
Speaker 1: so fast and we don't end up at that unwanted
Speaker 1: outcome of feeling like we're consumed and ruminating with negative feelings.
Speaker 1: And how we do that is we do different things.
Speaker 1: So we put away our feelings after our worry time,
Speaker 1: and then we make concrete decisions about how we're going
Speaker 1: to move through the rest of our day, one small
Speaker 1: decision at a time. And I'm a decision neutral, meaning
Speaker 1: whether it means you're going on a walk, you're calling
Speaker 1: a friend, you're going to the store to pick some
Speaker 1: flowers out for your kitchen table, whatever it is that
Speaker 1: you're finding ways to move through the world in a
Speaker 1: more expansive way, even if they're small. And when you
Speaker 1: start stringing those things together, those neural pathways I alluded
Speaker 1: to earlier on as powerful and there's more room for
Speaker 1: more feelings. And so it's one of those things you
Speaker 1: got to stick with. You're not going to feel better
Speaker 1: on day one, potentially, or day five or day fourteen.
Speaker 1: Over time, your body will start to recognize that you
Speaker 1: have internal resources to combat hard feelings, and that in
Speaker 1: itself starts to make more room for more feelings. So, Alisa,
Speaker 1: I honor the feeling state that you're having, and I
Speaker 1: also really encourage you to get as concrete as I
Speaker 1: was describing in how you approach it. This is something
Speaker 1: if you want things to be different, you have to
Speaker 1: do things differently. If you want things to be different,
Speaker 1: you have to do things differently. And it isn't about
Speaker 1: how quickly the pivot occurs. It's about the habitual nature
Speaker 1: of doing things differently that yields results over time. Let's
Speaker 1: pivot to voicemails. Let's start with Greg.
Speaker 2: This is Greg from Sarah soa. I'm curious, as a
Speaker 2: divorced single man, do you bring up on the first
Speaker 2: date that your divorce or usually wait and bring that
Speaker 2: up later in the second or third date.
Speaker 1: Thanks Greg, Thank you so much for calling and asking
Speaker 1: that question. It's so nice to hear from a guy
Speaker 1: who's trying to think through how to move through the
Speaker 1: world post di Wars. It can be fraught, and it's
Speaker 1: a really good question. And I think there's a bigger
Speaker 1: macro question around your micro question, which is like, no, seriously,
Speaker 1: do I say the thing or not on the first date?
Speaker 1: And the macro question is what is your orientation towards
Speaker 1: your journey of divorce? Meaning is it one that's fraught
Speaker 1: with shame or embarrassment or is it one that includes
Speaker 1: kind of acceptance and self compassion and empathy. And divorce
Speaker 1: is one of my areas of expertise as well. It's
Speaker 1: an incredibly painful, traumatic time and so it's never a
Speaker 1: dichotomous answer. There's lots of feelings that people feel around divorce,
Speaker 1: but I really encourage you to start deliberately embodying a
Speaker 1: sense of self acceptance around it. That divorce is part
Speaker 1: of your story and there's pain points associated with it,
Speaker 1: but hopefully now there's expansiveness and openness and hope associated
Speaker 1: with it as well. As you put yourself out there,
Speaker 1: it appears to look for do experiences and potentially a
Speaker 1: meaningful connection. So I think if you're coming from that
Speaker 1: frame of mind. The question about whether to talk about
Speaker 1: it or not won't feel as fraud if it naturally
Speaker 1: comes up in conversation on a first date. I think
Speaker 1: it's absolutely more than fine that you allude to your
Speaker 1: experience and where you are in your process, and there's
Speaker 1: a good chance that it does. I think on many
Speaker 1: first dates people start talking about their relationship history because
Speaker 1: it's an interesting point of conversation, and I think it's
Speaker 1: more than fine and even in power to say, like, yep,
Speaker 1: this is where I am. I've been through this, this
Speaker 1: is sort of the highlights of what I've learned, and
Speaker 1: you know thematically where I am now and that I'm
Speaker 1: in like a hopeful forward moving place to not feel
Speaker 1: like you have to justify or explain. And if for
Speaker 1: some reason, someone sort of doesn't feel good about dating
Speaker 1: someone who has been through a divorce stating the obvious,
Speaker 1: but that's clearly not an alignment and someone that you
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to invest a lot of time in going
Speaker 1: through a divorce. While painful, shouldn't be a source of embarrassment.
Speaker 1: Relationships are complicated, and it doesn't make you a bad
Speaker 1: relationship option. If you've made the tough decision to not
Speaker 1: stay in a relationship. So thanks for the question, Greg,
Speaker 1: I think it's a really important one. I think we
Speaker 1: have time for one more voicemail.
Speaker 2: I have a question. My name is Kelly. I'm wondering
Speaker 2: how you open up to man after a divorce, newly dating,
Speaker 2: or you've been single a long time, probably single a
Speaker 2: long time? What apply to me?
Speaker 1: And how do.
Speaker 2: You become intimate with somebody when you're been single a
Speaker 2: long time and you have had your heartbroken a couple
Speaker 2: of times, not necessarily by because somebody cheated, just not
Speaker 2: emotionally available.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Kelly, thank you so much for this question. And
Speaker 1: this is this is a big one. I think one
Speaker 1: that a lot of people can relate to, is how
Speaker 1: do you guide yourself into a potential state of intimacy
Speaker 1: when you've been hurt before. It's such an existential ask
Speaker 1: because we can't help but sometimes move into a place
Speaker 1: of self protection, and sometimes that's appropriate, but also for
Speaker 1: us to gain access to safe, playful fun intimacy, we
Speaker 1: have to have some degree of openness. So it really
Speaker 1: is a rough analysis, and my answer in some way
Speaker 1: may not feel completely satisfying because there isn't a perfect formula,
Speaker 1: but I'm hoping thematically this helps. It's really normal to
Speaker 1: feel both. You're both going to feel scared, afraid, vulnerable,
Speaker 1: and hopefully a sense of openness, expansion, possibility, and hopefulness,
Speaker 1: and those are appropriate, especially when you've been in relationships
Speaker 1: that have been painful, and painful doesn't have to mean cheating.
Speaker 1: And so I think you go slow and you build
Speaker 1: a rhythm that is resonant to you. And how do
Speaker 1: you know what's resonant to you? It requires a lot
Speaker 1: of mindfulness and it might seem overly contrived or prescribed,
Speaker 1: and that's because it is. But really continuing to ask
Speaker 1: yourself throughout the process, how did that make me feel?
Speaker 1: How did being around this person make me feel? Did
Speaker 1: I feel safe? Did I feel comfortable? How do I
Speaker 1: feel around them? And being able to gauge the level
Speaker 1: of connection and intimacy that they were helping to curate
Speaker 1: and that you were experiencing and whether or not it
Speaker 1: felt comfortable or not. Trust your intuition, check in regularly
Speaker 1: and if it's feeling like too much, it's okay to
Speaker 1: slow it down. And what is slowing it down even mean? Right?
Speaker 1: It could mean things as concrete from how often you
Speaker 1: see them, the topics that you're talking about, to how
Speaker 1: much energy you're putting into it in your mind. I
Speaker 1: think a universal relatively universal phenomenon is thinking too much
Speaker 1: about a potential relationship at the beginning and it feeling
Speaker 1: consuming and kind of cultivating feelings of insecurity. So really
Speaker 1: trying to go for emotional diversification so that we're putting
Speaker 1: energy where it belongs. If we've met someone that feels
Speaker 1: compelling and interesting and is starting to feel like a safe,
Speaker 1: interesting place to put time into, great, but also making
Speaker 1: sure there's emotional diversification. We're still spending time with our girlfriends,
Speaker 1: our family, our siblings, etc. So that you're not relying
Speaker 1: on one person or one set of experiences for your
Speaker 1: sense of value and purpose. So I think it's a
Speaker 1: combination Kelly, of both being deliberate about the pace and
Speaker 1: emotionally diversifying your experience so your sense of self doesn't
Speaker 1: come from one place and trusting yourself to be able
Speaker 1: to handle if a relationship doesn't work out. And part
Speaker 1: of how we do that is through that emotional diversification,
Speaker 1: and we still have a landscape of people and resources
Speaker 1: and potential experience behind us even if a relationship doesn't
Speaker 1: work out. You guys, thank you so much for writing in,
Speaker 1: calling in, and being so vulnerable in your questions. I
Speaker 1: think it's so helpful for people to put words to
Speaker 1: so many other people's experiences and the realm of relationships
Speaker 1: and just in the realm of managing tricky feelings. So
Speaker 1: it gives us here at the pod an opportunity to
Speaker 1: talk about things that I think are so resonant for
Speaker 1: other people. So thank you so much for writing in.
Speaker 1: Are you finding it hard to navigate your chapter two
Speaker 1: struggling and need some advice? Send us an email or
Speaker 1: leave us a voicemail. All the info is in the
Speaker 1: show notes, and make sure to follow us on socials.
Speaker 1: I do Part two an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in
Speaker 1: love is the main objective.