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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcast.

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Speaker 2: The Democratic Leader in the House calls on the new

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Speaker 2: speaker to take shutdown off the table, and Israel conducts

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Speaker 2: raids in Gaza to prepare for the next phase. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the fastest show in politics with twin leads this

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Speaker 2: day in Washington. After the new Speaker was installed and

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Speaker 2: Hamas now claims Israeli raids have killed almost fifty hostages.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about the next steps in Israel and the

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Speaker 2: threat posed by Iran. Coming up with retired Army General

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Speaker 2: Wesley Clark, a former Supreme Allied Commander for Europe, with

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Speaker 2: analysis today from our signature panel. They're both back with us.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Politics contributors Rick Davis and Gdi Shanzano will be

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Speaker 2: with us for the hour to distill a lot of

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Speaker 2: information from the past twenty five four hours here in Washington.

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Speaker 2: A bit later this hour, a special conversation with the

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Speaker 2: Secretary of the Treasury Jennet Yellen, is with us today

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Speaker 2: in our offices at Bloomberg in Washington. Our bureau chief

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Speaker 2: Peggy Collins will be conducting an interview across the platforms here,

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Speaker 2: the radio, the satellite, and YouTube coming up in just

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Speaker 2: about a half hour's time. So you want to stay

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Speaker 2: with us for an important conversation ahead as we begin

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Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill now, and welcome General Wesley Clark to

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Speaker 2: the conversation. It's good to see you, General, I know

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Speaker 2: you're on Capitol Hill as you join us today from

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Speaker 2: the Russell Rotunda to talk with Senators about threats posed

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Speaker 2: by Iran and our policy towards Iran. I'd like to

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Speaker 2: start by asking you though about the urgency around a

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Speaker 2: supplemental budget request that now there is a new speaker,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be some action on this. In your

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Speaker 2: thoughts on how quickly and what is needed for Israel now.

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Speaker 3: Well, we need the full request that the administration's made,

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Speaker 3: We need it passed as rapperly as possible. And let's

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Speaker 3: not forget it's not just Israel, it's also Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: The two are linked.

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Speaker 3: Russia and Iran are strategic partners, and you can be

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Speaker 3: sure that Vladimir Putin is really happy to see what's

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Speaker 3: going on in Israel. How much he had to do

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Speaker 3: with it, Maybe we won't know for a while, but

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Speaker 3: we know Iran had a lot to do with it.

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Speaker 3: We have to understand that this Both actions are threats

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Speaker 3: to democracy, it's the international order, the rule of law

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Speaker 3: in the world today, and of course obviously to our

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Speaker 3: business community internationally. So we have to keep both in

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Speaker 3: mind when need to get that those appropriations passed immediately.

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Speaker 2: Well, there does seem to be an appetite for supporting

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Speaker 2: Israel in this case general. But there is an argument

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Speaker 2: overfunding for Ukraine, and I know that the Republican Conference

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Speaker 2: in the House is looking to bring an Israel only

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Speaker 2: bill to the floor. What do you make of this argument?

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Speaker 2: Sixty billion dollars for Ukraine with some members saying not

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Speaker 2: another dollar. But the president, as you just put it,

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Speaker 2: is trying to link the two together as a matter

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Speaker 2: of national security. You see continuity between these two requests.

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Speaker 4: They are linked together.

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Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin is working with Iran, Iran's working with Putin. Yes,

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Speaker 3: they're linked, but also understand this, that's sixty billion dollars

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Speaker 3: for Ukraine. Most of that money doesn't go to Ukraine.

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Speaker 3: That money goes to the United States. That's keeping and

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Speaker 3: building up our industrial base to face the challenges of

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Speaker 3: the Middle East, to face future challenges in NATO, and

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Speaker 3: of course to face the challenge of China. We've let

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Speaker 3: our industrial base, our military industrial base, deteriorate over the

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Speaker 3: last thirty years since.

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Speaker 4: The end of the Cold War.

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Speaker 3: We allowed a wholesale consolidation of defense industries. We reduced

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Speaker 3: the rates of supply that we need of everything. Is

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Speaker 3: this sort of half step, We've got to put that

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Speaker 3: money into our own base. The appropriations we've already given

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Speaker 3: to Ukraine. That money went to American firms. We just

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Speaker 3: gave them a bunch of old equipment, old ammunition. We

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Speaker 3: need to keep that system alive and strengthen it for

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Speaker 3: the challenges ahead. That's why putting Ukraine in that appropriations

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Speaker 3: bill is so important.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's so much to talk about here general. We

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Speaker 2: talk about the DIB here on the program, the defense

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Speaker 2: industrial base that you're referring to. This goes for Israel

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Speaker 2: as well, And I think that's your point, right. If

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Speaker 2: we're going to be making missiles to replenish the Iron Dome,

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Speaker 2: for instance, we do not have a manufacturing chain, according

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Speaker 2: to companies like Raytheon to make them fast enough. How

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Speaker 2: do we accelerate that process? Does this supplemental request?

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Speaker 3: Do it supply and demand put the money into it.

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Speaker 3: The companies will respond, but without that funding, No, if

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Speaker 3: they can't hire the people, invest in the capital goods

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Speaker 3: that are necessary create the supply chaange. No, they have

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Speaker 3: to have contracts, and these are multi year contracts procurement

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Speaker 3: contracts by the Defense Department, and that requires a funding.

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Speaker 3: So it's very simple, and it's if you don't do

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Speaker 3: it now, who knows what's going to happen in twenty four,

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Speaker 3: twenty five, twenty twenty six, twenty seven with Taiwan. So

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Speaker 3: all of this is linked. You can't artificially separate it.

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Speaker 2: Well, are you hearing that message received on Capitol Hill today?

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Speaker 2: I trust you're talking with members of both parties. I

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Speaker 2: know you're briefing senators today on our Iran policy. What

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Speaker 2: do they say to you about this matter, the supplemental

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Speaker 2: request and the need for a more streamlined and enhanced

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Speaker 2: manufacturing chain.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think they're all generally in support of this.

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Speaker 3: In the United States Senate, the question is the House,

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Speaker 3: and there's a lot of let's say, misunderstanding in the

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Speaker 3: House about what the funding for Ukraine actually does and

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Speaker 3: why it's needed. And hopefully this can become something that

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Speaker 3: can be corrected by information and not just sort of

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Speaker 3: a partisan tagline. But the big thing up here today

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Speaker 3: is Iran and what we're going to do about Iran.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've tried for forty years to work with

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Speaker 3: this government in Iran. We've pulled on it, pushed on it,

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Speaker 3: we've appeased it, we've patted it on the back, we've

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Speaker 3: sanctioned it, we've threatened it. Nothing changes the direction of

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Speaker 3: this Iranian government. They use terror and murder at home

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Speaker 3: and abroad. They want regional dominance. They've destroyed the state

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Speaker 3: of Lebanon. They've built a huge military complex and they've

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Speaker 3: forward positioned it through his Bilah ready to attack Israel. Look,

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Speaker 3: this crisis in Hamas brings this to a head. Can't

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Speaker 3: appease this government in Iran. It's time to let the

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Speaker 3: Iranian people have a government that represents them.

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Speaker 4: And that means we, the United States, stage and.

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Speaker 3: Our allies need to delegitimize the Iyatolas, get rid of

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Speaker 3: them in international organizations, cut off their access to funding,

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Speaker 3: sanction individually, get after their families, stop this government from

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Speaker 3: having control over its people. Doesn't take a war, don't

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Speaker 3: want an invasion.

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Speaker 4: But if we keep.

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Speaker 3: Going the way we're going, Iran is going to provoke

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Speaker 3: a war in the region.

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Speaker 4: And that's the day.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'd like to ask you more about that. Let

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Speaker 2: me first ask you about the Biden administration's repeated message

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Speaker 2: that there is no actual evidence that Iran was directly

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Speaker 2: involved in or helped plan or fund the Hamas terror attack.

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Speaker 2: Do you need to see that evidence or is that

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Speaker 2: kind of missing the point in this conversation. You're pointing

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Speaker 2: to a long history that the administration is also acknowledged,

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Speaker 2: but without that evidence to put the two together, the

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Speaker 2: presidents seems to be a bit tied up on this.

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Speaker 3: Do you think, well, I think it's I think it's

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Speaker 3: what the administration's appetite is for acting in many different

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Speaker 3: directions at once, and what the capacity is Washington typically

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Speaker 3: is a one crisis at a time town. And you know,

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Speaker 3: we've got a crisis right now. We're worried about what

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Speaker 3: Israel will do in Gaza, will they have the support

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Speaker 3: they need? What about his law and what I'm suggesting

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Speaker 3: is you've got to go to the source, and the

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Speaker 3: source is Iran. Now is it the immediate source? Did

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Speaker 3: the Iranians tell the Hamas people on this specific day,

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Speaker 3: I want you to go out this specific gate, come

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Speaker 3: in with these paragliders, kill these people. No, probably not,

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Speaker 3: But we do know have evidence that they trained a

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Speaker 3: bunch of Palestinian fighters as late as September. We know

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Speaker 3: there are meetings that have been held. Do we know

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Speaker 3: what's said in those meetings? Well, not at the unclassified level,

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Speaker 3: and maybe we don't even know at.

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Speaker 4: The most secret level.

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Speaker 3: It's a question of how the administration sees its way

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Speaker 3: through the crisis. And what I'm suggesting is that you

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Speaker 3: have to be able to do more than one thing

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Speaker 3: at a time. You've got Ukraine, that's a critical at

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Speaker 3: a critical state right now. They need sustainment and they're

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Speaker 3: facing a really tough Russian attack. In the northeast, You've

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Speaker 3: got Israel and Gaza, and then you've got the region,

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Speaker 3: and so in the region you have to understand the

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Speaker 3: source of these tensions.

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Speaker 4: It is Iran.

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Speaker 3: And there's nothing like a crisis to bring on a

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Speaker 3: path to a resolution. And in this case the resolution

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Speaker 3: is to delegitimate that government in Tehran.

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Speaker 2: There's talk about a second or third front opening. I

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Speaker 2: know that's a great fear of the administration and the

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Speaker 2: Pentagon general, But when you look around, we've already seen

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Speaker 2: incursions repeatedly to the north. We've seen attacks against US

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Speaker 2: military installations in Iraq and Syria. We've seen an American

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Speaker 2: warship intercept cruise missiles from Yemen. Are the second and

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Speaker 2: third fronts already hot? Is this already happening?

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Speaker 4: Well, let's put it this way. They're warming it up.

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Speaker 3: But I don't think the decision has been made by

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Speaker 3: the Ayatolas to really open up the northern front yet.

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Speaker 3: It's it's nuisances right now. Yeah, they're killing people, they're firing,

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Speaker 3: but they haven't really committed. They want to wait and

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Speaker 3: see what Israel is able to do in Gaza, whether

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Speaker 3: it's so deeply enmeasure in Gaza that it can't defend itself.

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Speaker 4: From the north, whether the whole world.

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Speaker 3: Turns against it because of the need to bring heavy

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Speaker 3: firepower in an urban area to dislodge Hamas, if they

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Speaker 3: can bring world opinion totally against it, isolate the United

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Speaker 3: States and Israel. If they think the Israelis can't protect

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Speaker 3: themselves from all three directions at once, then maybe they

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Speaker 3: will unleash his blow.

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Speaker 4: And they haven't.

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Speaker 3: Made that decision yet, as we can tell publicly.

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Speaker 2: General, while you're with us, I want to ask you

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Speaker 2: about the matter of military readiness in the blockade on

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Speaker 2: military promotions in the Senate. You might have even spoken

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Speaker 2: with Tommy Tubberville today, but there's a new effort that

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Speaker 2: Democrats are making to send a resolution to the Rules

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Speaker 2: Committee that would allow three hundred plus promotions that have

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Speaker 2: been held up to all go to the floor at

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Speaker 2: one time. Would you support that movement? Is it set

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Speaker 2: a bad precedent?

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Speaker 3: Oh? I think it's essential at this point. Look, Senator

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Speaker 3: TULLVERRLL has made his point. Everybody understands where he stands,

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Speaker 3: what he stands for, that he's a man who's willing

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Speaker 3: to fight for what he believes in.

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Speaker 4: Okay, enough is enough.

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Speaker 3: Let's get on with getting these military leaders and their

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Speaker 3: families and their right positions and preparing for the challenges

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Speaker 3: that are on our doorstep right now.

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Speaker 4: There's no time to waste on this.

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Speaker 2: Is it impacting our readiness?

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Speaker 4: There's no doubt about it.

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Speaker 2: Have you talked to Tommy Tubberville to let him know

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Speaker 2: your thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Well, I haven't talked to him on this. No, I'm

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Speaker 3: one of many in the retired general officer ranks who's

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Speaker 3: watching this very anxiously. I'd be delighted if he would

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Speaker 3: call me and ask me for some his assistance or

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Speaker 3: advice on it. He's got to back his way out,

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Speaker 3: and he hasn't been willing to do that. But you know,

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Speaker 3: he's a senator. He's do his respect, and he has

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Speaker 3: the right to put a hold on nominations. But enough's enough.

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Speaker 4: Let's get on with the business of the United States government.

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Speaker 2: You've been generous with your time today. General. I wonder lastly,

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Speaker 2: as you're speaking with senators, are you also talking to

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Speaker 2: the administration about policy toward Iran, next step, sanctions, whatever

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Speaker 2: you think the next step should be.

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Speaker 3: Well, I talk to anybody who will listen on this.

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Speaker 3: This is a looming crisis that we've seen coming for

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Speaker 3: some time. And you know, there's an odd thing about Iran.

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Speaker 3: When things are quiet and they're not attacking our troops

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Speaker 3: and there's diplomacy going on, people say, well, don't worry,

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Speaker 3: so much about it. Us don't shake the tree, and

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Speaker 3: then when there's a crisis, people say, oh, this is

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Speaker 3: a crisis. This is no time to reach in to

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Speaker 3: change the policy.

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Speaker 4: And so.

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Speaker 3: We never seem to want to move past what's been

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Speaker 3: forty years of fruitless efforts one way or another to

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Speaker 3: engage with this Iranian regime.

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Speaker 4: It is time to.

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Speaker 3: Recognize that this is an illegitimate regime and get it

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Speaker 3: out of international legitimacy.

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Speaker 2: General Wesley Clark, we appreciate the time and the insights

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Speaker 2: today on Bloomberg. Thank you for joining us. This is

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Sound On. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington. As we

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Speaker 2: assemble our panel here the day after we got a speaker.

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Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzino are with us now, Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: Politics Contributor's great to have you both here. Genie, what's

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Speaker 2: your thought about what we just heard? Because the General

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Speaker 2: sounded a lot like Rick Davis, to be honest with

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Speaker 2: regard to Iran. This is, of course a man who

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Speaker 2: ran for president as a Democrat. Is there a daylight

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Speaker 2: between what he's saying and what we're hearing from Joe Biden?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it's a fascinating conversation because I do

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Speaker 5: think there is a divide in the Democratic Party on this,

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Speaker 5: and there has been for some time. You know, we

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Speaker 5: can go back to Barack Obama's approach to Iran, but

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Speaker 5: you can go back even further, and I think he

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Speaker 5: is echoing what is a sort of in the momentum

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Speaker 5: continuing to gain hold, which is that efforts to what

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Speaker 5: some people describe as a peace or some people describe

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Speaker 5: as contain I mean, there's a lot of different adjectives

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Speaker 5: you can use. Iran simply have not worked, and what

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Speaker 5: has happened since October seventh, but even earlier is proved

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Speaker 5: positive of that. But the problem is there is very

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Speaker 5: little agreement on where to go forward and how to

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Speaker 5: go forward. I mean, shared Brown's view on what the

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Speaker 5: Banking Committee alone should do on Iran is fascinating and

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Speaker 5: shows this divide. So there's a necessary conversation, and you

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Speaker 5: were just having a really key part of it with

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Speaker 5: somebody with very strong views on this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you think, Rick, what should the next

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Speaker 2: move be for the Biden administration? The generals on Capitol

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Speaker 2: Hill to sound the alarm today? Do they need to

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Speaker 2: move past the idea of finding evidence that links Iran.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the general's talking about shutting this down, even

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Speaker 2: going after their families.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I think it's parsing that's actually just going to

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Speaker 6: make them look weak in the eyes of the American public.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 6: Look, I mean, Ran has been a horrible influence in

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Speaker 6: the region around the world for as long as the

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Speaker 6: Iatola has been running it, and we've allowed that to

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Speaker 6: sustain itself. We're afraid of the development of their nuclear weapons.

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Speaker 6: We don't want to get in a scrape with them

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Speaker 6: in the Middle East, and yet they dictate all the

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Speaker 6: terms that occur there. I mean, the reason that this

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Speaker 6: is all happening is because through US efforts to normalize

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Speaker 6: relations between Saudi Arabia and Israel, they put a kebash

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Speaker 6: to it, and and so like, who's not surprised by

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Speaker 6: all this? And and this naivete within the Biden administration

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Speaker 6: that they can somehow do business with Iran but let

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Speaker 6: them be a pure and interest in the region is

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Speaker 6: absolutely insane. They've got to rationalize this to us in

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Speaker 6: their relationship with Iran in a way that is absolutely

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Speaker 6: clear to the American public, which is Iran's the enemy.

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Speaker 6: They've always been the enemy. They're always going.

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Speaker 2: To be the enemy.

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Speaker 6: They don't have the same views around the world, values

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Speaker 6: that we all hold dear on human life. And just

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Speaker 6: look at what they've been able to accomplish in the region,

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Speaker 6: you know, supporting Hamas, supporting Husbala, supporting Syrian.

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Speaker 7: Islamis.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it's it's there's nothing positive about their conduct whatsoever.

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Speaker 6: So let's quit saying, oh, well, there's no direct evidence

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Speaker 6: that they pulled the triggers. It's a little bit late

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Speaker 6: for that.

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Speaker 2: We'll have a lot more with our panel, Rick Davis

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Speaker 2: and Genie Shanzano. We haven't even gotten to the matter

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Speaker 2: of the speaker race. The new Speaker of the House,

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Speaker 2: Mike Johnson making waves already today in Washington and meeting

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Speaker 2: with Biden administration officials about avoiding a shutdown. We're going

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Speaker 2: to get to that next with Rick and Jeannie on

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Speaker 2: the Fastest Show in Politics. I'm Joe, Matthew and Washington.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us on the radio, on the satellite,

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Speaker 2: and on YouTube. Search Bloomberg Global News to find us.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

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Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

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Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

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Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: Live from Washington with breaking news on the new Speaker

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Speaker 2: of the House. It's the first full day on the

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Speaker 2: job for Speaker Johnson. Meeting with Biden administration's administration officials.

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Speaker 2: Easy for me to say on the big funding request

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Speaker 2: we were just talking about with the general here, bipartisan

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Speaker 2: briefing with congressional leadership. This is the first time the

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Speaker 2: Speaker is interfacing with the Biden administration as the man

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Speaker 2: who holds the gavel. And it's coming less than twenty

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Speaker 2: four hours after the big celebration on the steps of

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Speaker 2: the House after he made the grade. He was joined

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Speaker 2: by all the members of the Republican Conference and it

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Speaker 2: was a LoveFest.

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Speaker 8: We're going to act consistently. We're going to exhibit two

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Speaker 8: things here, trust and teamwork, and this group will deliver

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Speaker 8: for the American people. I said it in the Chamber

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Speaker 8: and I will say it here. We're going to govern well.

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Speaker 2: We're going to govern well endorsed by everyone else who

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Speaker 2: wanted to get the job, including Steve Scalise.

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Speaker 9: You know, if you think about what's happened these last

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Speaker 9: three weeks, while a lot of people outside of Washington

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Speaker 9: and talk about dysfunction, this great group of men and

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Speaker 9: women behind me have been talking about how to fix

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Speaker 9: what's broken in Washington.

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Speaker 2: And so this was really good for everybody. Ask Tom Emmer,

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Speaker 2: this is like the best time he ever had. I

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Speaker 2: guess remember you had the nomination for I think four hours.

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Speaker 3: From an outside point of view, these last few weeks

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Speaker 3: probably looked like total.

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Speaker 4: Chaos, confusion.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I don't no end in sight.

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Speaker 8: But from my perspective, this is one of the greatest

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Speaker 8: experiences in recent history, in the recent history of our republic.

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Speaker 2: We couldn't have planned it better. Let's reassemble the panel.

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Speaker 2: Rick Davis and Genie Shanzey no Bloomberg Politics contributors. Haven't

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Speaker 2: heard from either of you yet. Can't wait, Rick, what

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Speaker 2: do you think of our new Speaker of the House?

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Speaker 6: Well, I'm holding my breath. Is he a member of

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Speaker 6: the Vote No Hope, Yes Caucus? He voted against Ukraine

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Speaker 6: funding when all three of those people McCarthy, Emmer and

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Speaker 6: Scleeves voted yes. What kind of leadership is he going

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Speaker 6: to give if he's opposing those kinds of things?

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Speaker 7: I don't know.

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Speaker 6: I'm very nervous that we've got a deadlock house of representatives.

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Speaker 6: It's only going to make bad look worse.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Joe Biden was asked about him yesterday, Genie. He

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Speaker 2: was in the Rose Garden with the Prime Minister of Australia.

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Speaker 2: The question pretty obvious for this president, knowing that this

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Speaker 2: is not only an election denier, but someone who actually

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Speaker 2: wrote the amicus brief in the Texas case to bring

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Speaker 2: this to the Supreme Court. Here's how it went to

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Speaker 2: the White House.

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Speaker 10: If you win reelection in twenty twenty four, are you

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Speaker 10: worried that a Speaker Johnson would again attempt to overturn

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Speaker 10: the election?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 7: Why not?

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Speaker 4: Because he can't?

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Speaker 3: Look just like I was not worried that the last

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Speaker 3: time I'd be able to overturn the election. They have

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Speaker 3: not sixty lawsuits and all the way to the Supreme Court,

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Speaker 3: and every time they lost.

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Speaker 11: I understand the constitution.

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Speaker 2: Do you share his Confidenie?

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Speaker 5: Well, I applaud Joe Biden, Unlike Mike Johnson for answering

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Speaker 5: the question, because of course, yesterday when Mike Johnson was

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Speaker 5: asked the question he was it was Virginia Fox. I

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Speaker 5: think who said shut up, shut up to the report.

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Speaker 5: So you know, he's a constitutional lawyer described as a

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Speaker 5: constitutional scholar, but he does not want to get up

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Speaker 5: there and answer questions. So thank you to the President

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Speaker 5: for answering. The President seems confident. I'm gonna go with

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Speaker 5: Rick and say I'm holding my breath on this aspect

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Speaker 5: of it, you know, Mike Johnson, and I'm so glad

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Speaker 5: you raised that amicus cure I brief. It's one of

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Speaker 5: the most confounding things that he would write the brief

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Speaker 5: to help the disgraced Ken Paxton try to say that

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Speaker 5: Texas can overturn the votes of four other states, something

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Speaker 5: that even the hardliners on the Supreme Court found so

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Speaker 5: baffling constitutionally that they didn't even take the case. And

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Speaker 5: that is Mike Johnson. We don't know how he's going

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Speaker 5: to behave and as speaker, he may turn out to

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Speaker 5: be a great speaker. We simply don't know. But the

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Speaker 5: reality is we know what he's done before, and that

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Speaker 5: is lead the effort to vote to overturn the twenty election,

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Speaker 5: defend Donald Trump, and also support Ken Paxton in the

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Speaker 5: ridiculousness of Texas overturning other states votes for the presidency.

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Speaker 2: Rick, we only have a couple of minutes before our

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Speaker 2: sit down conversation with the Treasury Secretary. How concerned are

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Speaker 2: you that every member of the Republican Conference voted for

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Speaker 2: an election? Denier?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, look, I think it's a it's a bad form.

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Speaker 6: I'm shocked that Emmer didn't press the point of actually

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Speaker 6: having a floor vote for his own Speakership candidacy. Frankly,

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Speaker 6: I suspect a bunch of Democrats would have voted for him,

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Speaker 6: because in retrospect you look at that and say, gee,

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Speaker 6: we could have had Emmer. Democrats are going to really

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Speaker 6: pay a price for for not having the opportunity to

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Speaker 6: put a reasonable Republican in the seat who actually believed

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Speaker 6: the elections weren't flawed. So this has been a horrible

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Speaker 6: three week period for the Republican Party. I think the

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Speaker 6: onus is going to be on Speaker Johnson to try

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Speaker 6: and write that ship. Nothing in his background indicates that

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Speaker 6: he has the ability to do that. So this is

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Speaker 6: a real test by Fire.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business App, or listen on

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Speaker 1: demand wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Then there's the former president, who, in these wild times

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Speaker 2: we've really only been talking about through the guise of

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Speaker 2: the speaker race. But this is Donald Trump, who's been

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Speaker 2: in court every day lately to talk about the value

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Speaker 2: of his company or face off with Michael Cohen or

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Speaker 2: whatever might be happening. Ye did you see he took

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Speaker 2: the stand yesterday?

439
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 7: I did.

440
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 2: This is incredible. Now we keep seeing him in the

441
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,800
Speaker 2: lobby and people are asking questions about yesterday, violating the

442
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:07,800
Speaker 2: gag order in this case New York curious where with

443
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: respect to what very no any other questions, any other questions.

444
00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: They're trying to figure out who was he talking about?

445
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 2: Who was he disparaging because he goes in there and

446
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: he just you know, he lobs, spitballs at everybody and

447
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,600
Speaker 2: talks negatively about the judge, about the prosecutor in this case,

448
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 2: though the judge issued a ten thousand dollars fine for

449
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: what is Donald Trump's second violation of a gag order

450
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 2: in the civil fraud trial against him New York State

451
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: and called him to the stand, asking him to talk

452
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 2: about what he meant with these remarks. Immediately told him

453
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,919
Speaker 2: he was not credible. Sit down. Here's a ten thousand

454
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 2: dollars fine.

455
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 10: Yeah, and as you said, this is the second fine,

456
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 10: because last week he was fined five thousand dollars for

457
00:24:58,040 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 10: violating disorder.

458
00:24:59,240 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: This is incredible.

459
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,199
Speaker 10: We kind of knew Joe right that this is the

460
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 10: former president we are talking about. We know how open

461
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 10: he usually is with his commentary. And when all of

462
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 10: these either restricted gag orders or you know, different judges

463
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 10: doing different things, it was a question, how are you

464
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 10: actually going to enforce that? And I guess we're seeing

465
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,560
Speaker 10: it enforced in this case. But there's many others to

466
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 10: consider as well.

467
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:20,440
Speaker 1: Well.

468
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 2: There are a lot of others. And that's why I

469
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 2: can't believe we have Dave Ehrenberg in Washington and at

470
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: the table with us. You've heard him, you've seen him

471
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 2: on zoom and the Palm Beach County State Attorney is

472
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 2: with us in person. What a treat. It's great to

473
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 2: see you. Welcome to the Capitol.

474
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,919
Speaker 7: It is great to be with you. Both guys are

475
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 7: too good looking to be on radio.

476
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 2: Well that's why.

477
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 10: They're on YouTube now too.

478
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: My god, Yes, we're doing everything with you today. It's

479
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: great and thanks for coming. My gosh, your thoughts on

480
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 2: the gag order?

481
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 4: Here?

482
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 2: Will this be kind of a weekly Obviously ten thousand

483
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 2: dollars is not a matter for Donald Trump, but to

484
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: be kind of spanked publicly by the judge like that

485
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: is remarkable. He got up and left. He walked out

486
00:25:58,280 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: before the session was over.

487
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 7: I think he gets under Trump's skin like this case,

488
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 7: whether it's a gag order from a judge he does

489
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 7: not like, or for the valuation of mar Lago at

490
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 7: between eighteen and twenty eight million, which is really way

491
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 7: below market value. It cuts him to the core to

492
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 7: have to see what's going on there. Even though this

493
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 7: is not a criminal case. He will not be sent

494
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 7: to jail for this case, but this one is personal

495
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 7: for him and as far as what the future punishments

496
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 7: will be for him if he continues to violate the

497
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 7: gag order, I think the judge will continue to find

498
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 7: him increasing amounts of money. It's ten thousand dollars this time,

499
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 7: maybe the next time he will be fifty and then on.

500
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 7: But I do not expect this judge to sentence him

501
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 7: to jail for contempt because after all, it's a civil case,

502
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 7: not a criminal one.

503
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 10: Well, and it is a civil case, so are we

504
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 10: just going to see him stop showing up. He's not

505
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 10: mandated to be there in the room, right.

506
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 7: Correct, Unlike a criminal case, he does not have to

507
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 7: be there for this civil trial. But he has his

508
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,639
Speaker 7: own reasons. He wanted to glower and Michael Cohen. He

509
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 7: really hates his former lawyer. He wants the optics of

510
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 7: looking like he's the aggrieved individual here. He wants people

511
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 7: and his party to believe that somehow he's entitled to

512
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,440
Speaker 7: a jury trial and the court wouldn't give it to him,

513
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 7: when it's really his own lawyer, Alena Haba, who forgot

514
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 7: to check the right box. So he only has his

515
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 7: own lawyers to blame. But nothing fuels Maga like grievance

516
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 7: and martyrdom. That's why he's showing.

517
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: Up and just having a blast talking to cameras every day.

518
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,439
Speaker 2: But to be called to the stand like that, it

519
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 2: was like, you know, the troubled student called at the

520
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: front of the class to be scolded. How often are

521
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 2: we going to see that type of thing. The idea

522
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,080
Speaker 2: of Donald Trump ending up on the stand might suggest

523
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,120
Speaker 2: it's not always wise to show up when you don't.

524
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 7: Have that's right. You know, he can end up in

525
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 7: a perjury trap himself, and so it's not always a

526
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 7: great idea. But look, lawyers can't control their own defendants,

527
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 7: especially defendants their clients like Donald Trump. Donald Trump wants

528
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 7: to be there, he will be there, and he has

529
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 7: other motivations. It's about the optics. He's the leading candidate

530
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,920
Speaker 7: for president, and he wants people to believe that I

531
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 7: am aggrieved. I could be in Iowa right now, but

532
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 7: I have to be here, when in reality he was

533
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 7: missing a golf match by being in court. Excellent, But

534
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,639
Speaker 7: it's all about show.

535
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, well, we definitely know that for sure that the

536
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 10: former president does have a reputation for being quite a

537
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,000
Speaker 10: showman every day. This is how he operates. And as

538
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 10: we were just alluding to, this is just one case

539
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 10: that he is facing, and it's a civil case. He's

540
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,639
Speaker 10: facing a multitude of criminal cases as well. And the

541
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,680
Speaker 10: one I think that has been the most interesting over

542
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 10: the course of the last several weeks is Georgia the

543
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 10: racketeering case. There's now been what four plea deals, some

544
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 10: high profile including Jenna Ellis, Mark Sidney Powell, Mark Meadows,

545
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 10: Scott Hall. Do you think this is just dominoes that

546
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 10: are going to fall one by one? How do you

547
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 10: think this is going to play out?

548
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 7: I think there'll be more defendants copying the plea. They're

549
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 7: going to get FOMO. These other defendants, I fear a

550
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 7: missing out.

551
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 10: And there's what fourteen others here that we are considering.

552
00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 2: Look at this. If you're on YouTube, you can see

553
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 2: all the mugshots that got them in two different columns.

554
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 7: Now, yeah, see, I'm guilty, all not guilty. All those

555
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 7: folks in the right, they all have FOMO. They are

556
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 7: worrying that the longer they weigh, the worst the deal

557
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 7: will get. Right now, the folks on the left, if

558
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 7: you're on YouTube, you can see the four of them,

559
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 7: they got plea deals with no jail time. They were

560
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 7: facing years in prison. But first one in is the

561
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 7: first to win. That's something defense law is like to say.

562
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 7: If you get in first the prosecutor's door, you get

563
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 7: the best deal. But that door is closing soon and

564
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 7: I anticipate that future plea deals. Maybe not yet, but

565
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 7: pretty soon they'll start including incarceration.

566
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: Wow, what do you make of the Meadows deal? Specifically,

567
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: as compelled as I am to talk about Sidney Powell

568
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 2: at any turn, the idea here, and we've heard a

569
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: lot of people suggest this, including Chris Christy yesterday, of course,

570
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 2: a former prosecutor. You don't just cut a deal with

571
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: the chief of staff who was clearly involved in this

572
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 2: and may well deserve to be punished for his role

573
00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: that he played unless he's really got some important Was

574
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 2: that the deal that closes the walls in on Donald Trump?

575
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 7: Well, we don't know. Joe Weather Mark Meadows cut a

576
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 7: deal with prosecutors other than receiving immunity to test why

577
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 7: before the grand jury. So apparently he spoke to Jacksmith's

578
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 7: team three separate times this year and test why before

579
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 7: the grand jury. You cannot force someone to self incriminate

580
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 7: unless you give them immunity at the grand jury. That's

581
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 7: what happens. So they call him before the grand jury,

582
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,040
Speaker 7: they say we're going to give you immunity, and then

583
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 7: he testifies truthfully. But as far as weather he entered

584
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 7: into a non prosecution deal where I will be a

585
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 7: cooperating witness in return for your not prosecuting me. That's

586
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 7: not clear. It's be up to ultimately Jack Smith and

587
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 7: Mark Meadows whether it goes that far. But right now

588
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 7: I'm just thinking he just tests by before the grand

589
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 7: jury got immunity for his testimony, and I can't extrapolate

590
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 7: beyond that.

591
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:56,040
Speaker 2: That's really something we should clarify. That is the January

592
00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: sixth case here in Washington, And I'm actually curious the

593
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: Sydney and the others you mentioned in Georgia, Kayley, are

594
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 2: they also talking to Jack Smith at the same time.

595
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 7: There's no indication that Sidney Powell is talking to Jack Smith,

596
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 7: but it looks like Mark Meadows people wanted us to

597
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 7: know that he was talking to the grand jury to

598
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 7: Jack Smith for whatever reason. Now what's interesting is how

599
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 7: does Fannie Willis take this. Fannie Wills has got to

600
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 7: be concerned that she really should not try to use

601
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 7: the information that Mark Meadows gave to Jack Smith under

602
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 7: immunity against him in the state case, because then there

603
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 7: are some complex issues of whether state proscuers can feed

604
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 7: off of the information where he was grand immunity. There

605
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 7: was an Oliver North case, you remember that guy. He

606
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 7: was ultimately cleared or at least found the case was

607
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 7: thrown out against him because of those types of issues.

608
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 7: So proscuers are very careful. So I think what's going

609
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 7: to happen is she's going to continue to go after

610
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 7: Mark Meadows, who is an indicted individual in Fulton County,

611
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,200
Speaker 7: based on the evidence she accumulates, not on the evidence

612
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 7: that Jack Smith gives her.

613
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 10: But overall Marcmetto's aside with the other plea deals that

614
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 10: have now been entered, her job is getting easier, not harder, generally.

615
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 7: Right, It is definitely getting easier when you have a

616
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 7: number of your co defendants flip because nineteen co defendants,

617
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 7: that's very difficult, and in a reco case that takes

618
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 7: months to try. What was going to happen is you

619
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 7: had two people, cheesebro and Sidney Powell, who requested speedy trial.

620
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 7: They were going to be tried first. They were going

621
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 7: to give Donald Trump a dress rehearsal. They were going

622
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 7: to expose the state's arguments. It was to Donald Trump's benefit.

623
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 7: But now they're out of the way. So not only

624
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 7: does Donald Trump not get to see an advanced copy

625
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 7: of the prosecution. He also could be tried before the election.

626
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 7: Had the others been tried first, it would have pushed

627
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 7: his case beyond the election. But now there's no one

628
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 7: to wait for.

629
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: That's incredible and something that we have to remember with,

630
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 2: you know, as we juggled for indictments. With all of

631
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: that said, you consider his life over the next year

632
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: as he's running for president. Made the point, Hey, I

633
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 2: wish I could be in Iowa, but I'm here in

634
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: court on some days. That might actually be true. And

635
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: his campaign will need him to be in certain places.

636
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: How much flexibility will he have to actually run for

637
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: president while he's managing all these That's.

638
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 7: A really good question because we don't know the schedule yet.

639
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 7: I do believe the case that will happen before the

640
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 7: election is the case in DC that we've been discussing

641
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 7: Judge Chuck, and she's not fooling around, and that case

642
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 7: from Jack Smith is built for speed. There are no

643
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 7: other co defendants. There are unindicted ones, but not indicted ones.

644
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 7: There are only four counts against Trump. Because Jack Smith

645
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 7: wants that to happen before the election, and I think

646
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 7: it will so can he campaign fully while being put

647
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 7: on trial? I don't know, but I don't think. I'm

648
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 7: not certain that the other cases will happen before the election.

649
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 7: I think because of the plea deals now, it's a

650
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 7: better chance the Fulton County one happens before the election.

651
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 7: But I think the strongest case against Trump is the

652
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:57,720
Speaker 7: one in my neck of the woods good Documents case.

653
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 7: They got them dead to rights there. But you got

654
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 7: Judge Cannon, who's not quite Judge Chuckan. She's new, and

655
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 7: she is slow walking this thing. And I think that

656
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 7: case is going to get pushed beyond the election.

657
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 10: And if we're saying then beyond the election, he very

658
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 10: well could be president at that time, right, So how

659
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 10: would that? Does that mean that this case just never

660
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 10: gets tried? To feel like that's where we get into

661
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 10: really murky waters? Are you now having a sitting president

662
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 10: of the United States on trial?

663
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 3: Oh?

664
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 7: I don't think it's a murky firm at all. I

665
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 7: think that's his only defense, that he has no defense

666
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 7: to the document's case they got him. His only defense

667
00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 7: is become president and then order his Department of Justice

668
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 7: to drop the case. That's what he'll do, and the

669
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 7: case goes bye bye. The Trigckier one is what happens

670
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,560
Speaker 7: if he's convicted in Atlanta or in New York, which

671
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 7: also could happen for the election itself. In the state case,

672
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 7: he can't pardon himself. You know what will happen? So

673
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,800
Speaker 7: if becomes president and he's convicted or they keep trying

674
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 7: to prosecute him, he'll say, Okay, New York, Okay, Georgia,

675
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,760
Speaker 7: I'm surrounded by my secret service here in the Oval Office.

676
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 7: Come and get me. Yeah, who will be a constution.

677
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: Crisis to say that the reality continues? Is it wrong?

678
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 2: I'm admiring the lapel pin, the badge. I don't know

679
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: if people can see that, probably not on YouTube. Is

680
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 2: it wrong that I want one of those? Does that

681
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 2: make me a herschel walker?

682
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:13,920
Speaker 1: Is that?

683
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: Is that like a state attorney's How do you get that?

684
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 7: You can't get this in a costume store. You've got

685
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 7: to get elected state attorney at one of these days.

686
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 2: That's so cool.

687
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 7: Now here's the here's the insider tip there. We exchange

688
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 7: them with each other. So this is actually someone.

689
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 2: Else's tell me it's funny, Willis's.

690
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,400
Speaker 7: This is Tim Cruz from Massachusetts looking at it.

691
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 2: Hey, my friend, no kidding, Republican to Massachusetts. I love that.

692
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 2: Dave Ehrenberg, what a treat to have you in Washington.

693
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 2: Get home safe, good luck here in the Capitol. I'm

694
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 2: Joe Matthew with Kayley Lines. This is Bloomberg.

695
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the

696
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,160
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, Tune

697
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: in alf Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

698
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

699
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

700
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: As we head for Bloomberg BusinessWeek, we want to bring

701
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: you an important conversation with Paul Beckett. You might have

702
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 2: heard him a couple of months ago. Join us on

703
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 2: Bloomberg as the bureau chief of the Wall Street Journal

704
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: here in Washington, DC, and Kayley. As I said earlier,

705
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: it's not too often that you see Bloomberg and the

706
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: WSJ making news together here. But it's important because he's

707
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: not actually the bureau chief, at least not at the

708
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,840
Speaker 2: moment in Washington. He's become assistant editor of the journal

709
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 2: dedicated the efforts to secure Evan Gershkovic's release. And it's

710
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 2: Evan's birthday, ye thirty two years old, his two hundred

711
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:51,600
Speaker 2: and eleventh day of incarceration, as I read on the

712
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal. And it's always an honor to bring

713
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 2: Paul back on the air. It's good to see you,

714
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 2: and thanks for coming across town to say hello to us.

715
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: If you're with us on YouTube, see Paul's pin that

716
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 2: says free Evan that I suspect you're wearing everywhere right now.

717
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: And I just wonder if you could give us an

718
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: update on his situation, what you're hearing from him when

719
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 2: the last time he spoke.

720
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 11: Thank you so much. He is in decent shape, but

721
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 11: in decent shape in a Russian prison where he's been

722
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 11: for two hundred and eleven days. As you mentioned, he

723
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 11: spends a great deal of that time in isolation. He's

724
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:29,839
Speaker 11: given one hour in the prison yard each day. He's

725
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 11: working very hard to keep himself in shape, both mentally

726
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 11: and physically. But we really just see this stretching on

727
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 11: far too long, and we hope everything can be done

728
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 11: to bring him home.

729
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 10: Yeah, what's his degree of optimism and your degree of optimism?

730
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 10: That his incarceration there is going to end anytime soon.

731
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 11: This will end with the negotiation between the US government

732
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 11: and the Russian government, So we would just like to

733
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,479
Speaker 11: see more action taken. At the moment, his pre trial

734
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 11: attention will last until November thirtieth. They have twelve months

735
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 11: to keep extending that detention, so that would put it

736
00:38:06,719 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 11: into the spring of next year. But it's so opate.

737
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 11: We don't even really know when you'll go to trial

738
00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 11: and what happens after that, so it's very murky, and

739
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 11: that's the dispariting part.

740
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: So is this a diplomatic solution, a prisoner swap, or

741
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 2: is it actually infect a legal resolution that you're hoping for.

742
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 11: One of the ways it will happen, and probably the

743
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,799
Speaker 11: most likely, given what's happened in the past, is through

744
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 11: a prisoner swap. He has been accused of very serious

745
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 11: espionized charges, which we of course will say to the

746
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 11: end of the earth are completely false, but he will

747
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,400
Speaker 11: probably go into the Russian statement. So far, I have

748
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 11: to go through that trial before the meaningful negotiations can

749
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 11: take place. We hope to circuit that process, but in

750
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,799
Speaker 11: the mists ahead, that's about all we.

751
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 10: Can see so you suggested you would like to see

752
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 10: the US doing more here to push this What kind

753
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 10: of conversations are you having with the Biden administration with

754
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 10: those in government who may be able to help push

755
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,600
Speaker 10: this case. How committed do they seem to Evans?

756
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 3: Cause?

757
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 11: President Biden met with Evans family at the Whites correspond

758
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 11: Association dinner and made a promise there to bring Evan home.

759
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 11: So that's something that they have been relying on that

760
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 11: we have been relying on for action. We can't see

761
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 11: everything obviously that the government is doing. The public statements

762
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 11: have been encouraging that this is a top priority, but

763
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 11: we just want to make sure that it remains there.

764
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 2: Boy, can you describe the conditions that he's in there?

765
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 2: We spoke last time about the facility that he was

766
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: staying and is he still there? Is he around other

767
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 2: people or is he isolated?

768
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 11: He's in the the forte of a prison Maxicmum Security

769
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 11: Security Services prison in Moscow. We think he's in okay shape.

770
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 11: We have lawyers that go in to see him once

771
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 11: a week. He's had a few visits from the US

772
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 11: ambassador to Moscow. So from what we can tell, it

773
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 11: is he's reading he's meditating, he's exercising when he can,

774
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 11: but it's a lot of work in the circumstances are awful.

775
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,839
Speaker 10: I'm sure is there anything that the journal is doing

776
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 10: as well? For those journalists who are not currently incarcerated

777
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 10: in Russia but still have to do the kind of

778
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 10: work that Evan was doing and that he is now

779
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,319
Speaker 10: being essentially punished for. What do you do to make

780
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 10: sure that others don't end up in the position he

781
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 10: is currently in.

782
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 11: Well, we are actually trying to be helpful in a

783
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 11: position of another reporter who is in a similar circumstance.

784
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 11: Alsu Kumasheva from Free Europe Radio Liberty was detained in

785
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 11: Russia recently. So the extent that we can our experience

786
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 11: can be helpful to them, then of course I'm more

787
00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 11: than happy to engage on that. I think overall, what

788
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 11: you're seeing is a real stifling of what little free

789
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 11: press or independent press there was in Russia. So so

790
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 11: many reporters now have to cover Russia from outside, from Warsaw,

791
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 11: from Berlin, from Dubai, from wherever they can, and it's

792
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 11: just not the same.

793
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,040
Speaker 2: We're spending time with Paul Beckett from the Wall Street

794
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: journal who is working to secure Evan Gershkovich's release as

795
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 2: people consider what he's going through right now, and more broadly,

796
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: what journalists are facing on a daily basis. Here we've

797
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: got journalists in very dangerous places and it could get

798
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 2: a lot more dangerous, for instance, in the Middle East.

799
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 2: Does it change policies at the journal and the way

800
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 2: that you look at deploying reporters around the world.

801
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,400
Speaker 11: We've always, as I'm shore Bloomberg, has put the safety

802
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 11: of our reporters first absolutely. In spite of having very

803
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 11: strict protocols, bad things will happen, and to some degree

804
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,600
Speaker 11: is the nature of the business. You do see a

805
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 11: increase in violence towards harassment of and targeting of journalists

806
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 11: around the world. We've seen it recently in the Middle

807
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 11: East with sim Abdallah, the writers Yes reporter in Lebanon

808
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 11: who is monitoring a live feed and he was killed

809
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 11: and several other reporters were injured when that location was

810
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 11: hit by a missile. So it is very dangerous days

811
00:42:07,640 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 11: for reporters out there, and I think sometimes press can

812
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 11: be an easy punching bag. I think it's a moment

813
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 11: to reflect on how many people do extraordinary things to

814
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 11: bring us.

815
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: A news producer, Matt reminds us Kayley thirty four journalists

816
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 2: killed in a line of duty this year. So far

817
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: this calendar year, five hundred and ten journalists are detained

818
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: as we speak.

819
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 10: And Evan, of course, is one of them. Obviously, I

820
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 10: know communication reaching him in a communicative way is probably

821
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 10: immensely difficult. But if you had one message for him

822
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 10: on what is again his thirty second birthday, could you

823
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:40,720
Speaker 10: share that for us.

824
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,919
Speaker 11: We're doing everything we can to make sure he doesn't

825
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 11: spend his thirty third birthday in jail.

826
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 2: How often, if at all, does the journal does his

827
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,279
Speaker 2: employer get to speak with him or is it through

828
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 2: his lawyers on that weekly basis that you referenced.

829
00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 11: That's the chief point of contact. We have letters going

830
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 11: in now. His family write some letters, his colleagues write

831
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,319
Speaker 11: him letters, and in those letters they try and fill

832
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 11: him in on what he's missing the world. I think

833
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 11: that's the messages that he wants to hear. He is

834
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 11: a huge arsenal FC fan. He wants to hear they're doing.

835
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 11: His sister sends him celebrity gossip to keep him up

836
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,439
Speaker 11: to speed. Anything that will boy, his spirits during such

837
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,920
Speaker 11: difficult time and his strength there is an inspiration to

838
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 11: all of us doing well.

839
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 2: I want you to know how much we respect the

840
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,720
Speaker 2: role that you've taken on there. You were the Washington

841
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: Bureau chief, which is a very proud position, and the

842
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: fact that you're doing this full time to secure his

843
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:38,240
Speaker 2: release is honorable and we thank you for what you're doing.

844
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 2: There's not a lot that we can do here, I think, Kaylee.

845
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 2: Other thing keep talking about this and keep reporting on it,

846
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: and Paul, that's the pledge that we'll make to you,

847
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: So stay in touch with us.

848
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 11: Greatly appreciate, great, Thank you by so much.

849
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 2: Thank you for the all Beckett from the Wall Street

850
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 2: Journal with us here on an important conversation on the

851
00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 2: thirty second birthday of Evan Gershkovich, Joe Matthew and Washington

852
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: along with Kaylee Lines. Thank you so much for spending

853
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: time with us on the radio, on the satellite, and

854
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 2: on YouTube. We certainly learn a lot today, as always, Kaylee,

855
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,439
Speaker 2: and we'll be back with one more of these. Tell

856
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: me it's real. Tomorrow is Friday home stretch check on

857
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 2: a working weekend. Right, We've got a speaker.

858
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 10: We got some things worked well, don't Chinxit now?

859
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: Fuh fair enough with Kaylee, I'm joke. Thanks for listening

860
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 2: to the sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe if

861
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,840
Speaker 2: you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you

862
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and you can find us live every

863
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 2: weekday from Washington, DC at one pm Eastern Time at

864
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 2: Bloomberg dot com