WEBVTT - The N-Word Debate | Cite Your Source 0:00:00.630 --> 0:00:03.870 Welcome home, NLP fam. This is Angela Rye. You're about 0:00:03.890 --> 0:00:06.330 to hear an episode of Cite Your Source, a show 0:00:06.390 --> 0:00:09.890 produced and presented by Native Lamb Pod. On Cite Your Source, 0:00:09.930 --> 0:00:13.470 we fact-check the headlines and debunk viral news. We say 0:00:13.750 --> 0:00:16.910 we are your two-step verification on all the BS. New 0:00:16.980 --> 0:00:20.680 episodes drop Wednesday at 9 p.m. Eastern on Cite Your 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.940 Source's YouTube channel. If you're listening and wondering what our 0:00:23.980 --> 0:00:26.380 sources are, I encourage you to check out the video 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:28.920 where we cite our sources in real time and we 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.220 have our sources in show notes. Thank you. Enjoy the episode. 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.659 Welcome to Cite Your Source. I'm your host, Angela Rye. 0:00:36.700 --> 0:00:39.440 We are your two-step verification on all the BS. And 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.019 today we are talking about the N-word. Who can use 0:00:43.100 --> 0:00:46.120 it or should anyone at all be using it? Joining 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:50.960 me today are Lennard Charlemagne-Lagarde McKelvey, multimedia mogul. Jordan Pierre, 0:00:50.979 --> 0:00:55.680 youth leadership and identity advocate and founder of Voice. Delano Squires, 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.330 director of the DeVos Center for human flourishing at the 0:00:59.450 --> 0:01:04.010 Heritage Foundation, and author of The Vanishing Black Family, Dr. 0:01:04.130 --> 0:01:08.030 Elizabeth Stordor Pryor, professor of history at Smith College and 0:01:08.170 --> 0:01:11.840 author of Something We Said, Richard Pryor, A Notorious Word, 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:15.819 and Me, Derek Johnson, president and CEO of the NAACP, 0:01:16.120 --> 0:01:20.679 and Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, distinguished professor of African American 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:24.510 and Diaspora Studies at Vanderbilt University. We got through it 0:01:24.590 --> 0:01:29.050 all today. We will be addressing three claims. One, the 0:01:29.150 --> 0:01:33.570 N-word is associated with the most painful aspects of black history. Two, 0:01:33.890 --> 0:01:37.289 the N-word is derived from the Amharic word nagus, which 0:01:37.350 --> 0:01:41.650 means king. Three, it is socially acceptable for white people 0:01:42.110 --> 0:01:45.940 and individuals of other racial backgrounds to say the N-word. 0:01:46.700 --> 0:01:49.620 So I know you all are wondering where and who 0:01:49.700 --> 0:01:50.500 is the fact checker. 0:01:52.300 --> 0:01:53.800 Surprise, surprise! 0:01:54.060 --> 0:01:54.780 It is me. 0:01:54.890 --> 0:01:56.470 She is I and I is she. That is right. 0:01:56.930 --> 0:01:59.490 I will be serving as our resident fact checker. So 0:01:59.530 --> 0:02:01.990 if any panelist is on some BS or tells a 0:02:01.990 --> 0:02:05.000 little story, I will hit that buzzer and you'll hear 0:02:05.030 --> 0:02:08.799 this sound. Then they will have to cite their source. 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.060 This is going to be good, y'all. But first, let's 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:11.840 get to the N-word. 0:02:12.419 --> 0:02:13.019 Nigga. 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:13.460 Nigga. 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:14.540 Nigga. 0:02:14.660 --> 0:02:15.500 Say it right now. 0:02:31.570 --> 0:02:34.400 Okay, so I got to ask you all this very 0:02:34.500 --> 0:02:38.040 basic question, yes or no. Should folks be using the N-word? 0:02:38.100 --> 0:02:39.720 This is a rapid round. We're going to start with 0:02:39.740 --> 0:02:42.280 the person I know will be the rapidest. That's Dr. Dyson. 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:43.420 Yes. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.840 So your answer is yes. People should use the N-word. Okay, Derek? 0:02:46.980 --> 0:02:48.880 Black people should. Black people should. 0:02:48.970 --> 0:02:49.650 Okay, Derek? 0:02:49.930 --> 0:02:50.290 No one. 0:02:50.810 --> 0:02:51.930 Okay, Liz? 0:02:52.710 --> 0:02:53.310 Complicated. 0:02:53.590 --> 0:02:54.730 Okay, Delano? 0:02:55.010 --> 0:02:56.709 Depends. Okay, Jordan? 0:02:57.130 --> 0:02:57.329 No. 0:02:57.710 --> 0:02:58.609 Okay, Lenard? 0:02:59.310 --> 0:02:59.380 No. 0:02:59.430 --> 0:03:00.710 No. No? 0:03:00.830 --> 0:03:03.330 Okay, you sound like you have the most hesitation. Why no? 0:03:04.030 --> 0:03:06.890 I have no hesitation, but when a sister said complicated, 0:03:07.330 --> 0:03:09.110 I can see where it can be complicated. But I 0:03:09.130 --> 0:03:10.960 think that when you know better, you do better. And 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:13.620 I know for me, whenever I've used it, I've never 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.459 used it as a term of endearment. I use it 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.700 the way white supremacists use it. I be like, them goddamn, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.860 you know? So I don't see the benefit of it 0:03:21.900 --> 0:03:24.630 in 2026 to still be using it in any way, shape, 0:03:24.690 --> 0:03:24.930 or form. 0:03:25.270 --> 0:03:25.889 For me, personally. 0:03:25.910 --> 0:03:26.870 It just feels a little vibrational. 0:03:27.410 --> 0:03:29.550 Yeah, well, I think it's complicated. White people should never 0:03:29.650 --> 0:03:31.150 use it. I don't want to ever hear it, and 0:03:31.350 --> 0:03:33.710 I don't say it. But I also know that it's 0:03:33.750 --> 0:03:37.100 in conversation with white supremacy when black people use it, 0:03:37.770 --> 0:03:41.650 and that to remove the word is just removing a 0:03:41.690 --> 0:03:46.900 vocabulary word when the words in conversation with injustice, inequity, inequality, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.860 those systems have to be removed before the N-word stops 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.640 meaning anything. As long as it means something, it's going 0:03:53.660 --> 0:03:56.640 to continue to be used. That's the complication for me. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:57.060 Delano? 0:03:57.440 --> 0:03:57.570 Yeah. 0:03:57.590 --> 0:04:01.100 And I would make a distinction between private use, public 0:04:01.220 --> 0:04:03.580 use and commercial use. And a great deal of the 0:04:03.620 --> 0:04:06.260 conversation around that word, particularly over the last 40 years, 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:09.120 is about public and commercial use, particularly if you're talking 0:04:09.140 --> 0:04:11.860 about hip hop. But I think it's important to remember 0:04:11.900 --> 0:04:15.560 that every all language has context and you have to 0:04:15.620 --> 0:04:19.020 look at the message, the messenger, the motive and the medium. 0:04:19.260 --> 0:04:20.860 And for me, and this is where I would. 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:21.500 Agree with Charlamagne. 0:04:22.070 --> 0:04:23.779 A lot of the time, the motive, even when it's 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:26.279 coming from our mouths, is not a clean motive. It's 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:29.380 not a good motive. But language is fluid in the 0:04:29.420 --> 0:04:31.919 way that people talk, particularly when in a private setting, 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.740 doesn't necessarily mean that they have ill intent when they. 0:04:35.700 --> 0:04:36.539 Use particular words. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.740 And that's why there's a difference between reading a word 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:42.400 and using a word. And I think all the panelists 0:04:42.430 --> 0:04:44.969 would agree that using the word as a slur, regardless 0:04:44.990 --> 0:04:47.430 of whose mouth it comes out of, is off-limits. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.260 Yeah. I say for me, I feel like we shouldn't 0:04:50.300 --> 0:04:51.779 use the N-word. And the reason why I'm saying that, 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.120 because I think of when I think of words, I 0:04:53.140 --> 0:04:54.870 think about the power of language. You said in the 0:04:54.910 --> 0:04:58.650 Bible says the power of death or life relies on 0:04:58.670 --> 0:05:00.930 the tongue. But even outside of that, it's understanding that 0:05:01.250 --> 0:05:03.770 words also have a neurological response. And depending on the 0:05:03.830 --> 0:05:05.640 field and work that you're doing, I'm trying to reaffirm 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:07.240 young black men and who they are. I want you 0:05:07.260 --> 0:05:09.260 to reaffirm me and who we are. Why you don't 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:11.659 feel comfortable calling me a king? a God as such, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:13.120 but you want to reaffirm me in being a nigga. 0:05:13.140 --> 0:05:15.210 And then I got to think of the responses. Words 0:05:15.250 --> 0:05:17.030 have an impact. When I call a young man a king, 0:05:17.070 --> 0:05:19.310 how he start to stand up. And we talk about facts, 0:05:19.330 --> 0:05:21.540 but also feelings matter, right? How you make a young 0:05:21.570 --> 0:05:23.359 man feel when you call him a certain word, how 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:25.460 you reaffirm him in his presence. And then I think 0:05:25.500 --> 0:05:27.660 about like, I studied media. I think about 1915, the 0:05:27.700 --> 0:05:31.340 first depiction of from Hollywood was the nigga through the 0:05:31.380 --> 0:05:33.300 birth of a nation. So now when we see people 0:05:33.339 --> 0:05:34.980 say we lazy or we don't have a certain type 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.580 of work ethic, that's because the only depiction you have 0:05:36.620 --> 0:05:38.880 of a black man out of America was the nigga. 0:05:38.900 --> 0:05:40.680 You know what I mean? But reaffirm me and show 0:05:40.700 --> 0:05:42.170 me the wars that we won. Show me the people 0:05:42.190 --> 0:05:44.589 that did stand on something. Show me Hannibal. Show me 0:05:44.610 --> 0:05:47.029 the contributions we made to society. We ain't just niggas. 0:05:47.350 --> 0:05:48.790 So not think of a nigga, I also think of 0:05:49.170 --> 0:05:51.510 those that's been lost and don't know the sense of self. 0:05:51.550 --> 0:05:52.950 And we say that knowledge of self is not just 0:05:52.970 --> 0:05:55.790 violence prevention, but it also ignites collective liberation when you 0:05:55.830 --> 0:05:57.830 know who I am. So when I speak to young men, 0:05:57.850 --> 0:06:00.830 I understand the power of language, the neurological responses that 0:06:00.850 --> 0:06:03.010 they ignite, but more importantly, how it makes somebody feel. 0:06:03.100 --> 0:06:04.339 So I don't think we should use the word nigga 0:06:04.380 --> 0:06:04.600 at all. 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.500 So, Doc, and this is for Dr. Dyson, you are 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:14.040 the one person on this panel who is like, yes, absolutely, 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:18.290 my nigga. So on that, I'm curious to know, you know, 0:06:18.310 --> 0:06:21.830 when you hear these very visceral, passionate responses about what 0:06:21.890 --> 0:06:25.609 the N-word means to folks who are sitting here, Why 0:06:25.710 --> 0:06:29.370 is your response so different, knowing its treacherous past, knowing 0:06:29.450 --> 0:06:33.040 its history, particularly when used to inflict pain, harm, or 0:06:33.100 --> 0:06:36.080 death upon black folks? Why is your response so different? 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:41.700 Look, listening to everybody here, with the exception of President Johnson, 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.880 I know he shares views with others, I understand all that. 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:51.540 But language is flexible. Language is fluid. It evolves over 0:06:51.580 --> 0:06:56.229 space and time. And I acknowledge all of this at 0:06:56.250 --> 0:06:58.670 the same time when I was reading Dr. Hiram Smith's book, 0:06:58.810 --> 0:07:01.229 What's Up My Nigga, where he talks about the fact 0:07:01.290 --> 0:07:04.860 that very few people were actually kings. Most of us 0:07:04.890 --> 0:07:07.980 were average black people. It's all right, I think, as 0:07:08.020 --> 0:07:11.920 Brother Jordan talked about it, to speak about us as 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.900 kings and queens, but the average black person was not that. 0:07:16.500 --> 0:07:20.070 So That's an assertion of a kind of idealized state 0:07:20.090 --> 0:07:22.930 of being as well. The reason, look, I didn't hear 0:07:23.370 --> 0:07:26.520 nigga first time from a rapper. I heard it from preachers. 0:07:27.120 --> 0:07:27.740 If you read Dr. 0:07:27.780 --> 0:07:30.000 Henry Mitchell's book about black preaching, he talks about an 0:07:30.060 --> 0:07:34.140 encounter between Sandy Ray out of Brooklyn and Dr. Frederick 0:07:34.180 --> 0:07:36.580 George Sampson, who happened to be my pastor in Detroit, 0:07:37.140 --> 0:07:39.950 and referring to each other or one to the other 0:07:40.050 --> 0:07:40.670 as my nigga. 0:07:41.430 --> 0:07:42.290 Martin Luther King Jr. 0:07:42.310 --> 0:07:46.690 the night before he died, playfully rebuked Andrew Young, by 0:07:46.750 --> 0:07:50.650 taking a pillow and saying, where you been, little nigger? Now, 0:07:50.670 --> 0:07:52.650 I don't think anybody's going to deny that Martin Luther 0:07:52.670 --> 0:07:56.040 King Jr., though he was certainly not perfect, was certainly 0:07:56.070 --> 0:07:59.360 the embodiment of the struggle for Black self-determination and a 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:03.560 positive self-conception as anybody ever in our community. So when 0:08:03.620 --> 0:08:06.600 I hear nigger, I hear warmth, I hear beauty, I 0:08:06.660 --> 0:08:10.160 hear terror. There's no question the fact that Black people 0:08:10.180 --> 0:08:13.620 sometimes internalize what nigger means, but we know that it 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.490 can be quite Problematic and it can also be quite complicated. 0:08:17.810 --> 0:08:20.170 You can use it as a as a greeting. What's up, 0:08:20.190 --> 0:08:20.570 my nigga? 0:08:20.890 --> 0:08:27.020 You can use it as an interrogation nigga Use it 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.840 as celebration my nigga you can use it as a 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:35.500 rebuff nigga so there are multiple ways in which nigga 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.790 operates and we can say just like women use the 0:08:38.809 --> 0:08:42.140 B word and right, among themselves, not with us, or 0:08:42.420 --> 0:08:46.199 gay and lesbian people have appropriated that term fag. 0:08:45.910 --> 0:08:48.790 And use it among themselves. As Dr. Hiram Smith again 0:08:48.830 --> 0:08:52.450 points out, this didn't start with hip hop. Black people 0:08:52.620 --> 0:08:54.910 in the 1850s were using nigga. 0:08:55.309 --> 0:08:57.489 And whether you think it's because of the deletion of 0:08:57.530 --> 0:09:00.189 the R that we did in the South or because 0:09:00.250 --> 0:09:03.230 we adopted some kind of British talk, the point is 0:09:03.670 --> 0:09:05.390 nigga is complicated and beautiful. 0:09:05.750 --> 0:09:08.240 And what Black people have done with nigga is amazing. 0:09:08.620 --> 0:09:12.280 What we have been able to manage a kind of complexity, 0:09:12.500 --> 0:09:15.439 a kind of nuance, a kind of rebuke to the world. 0:09:15.700 --> 0:09:16.380 And I don't think. 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.300 that we should stop using it because white people get confused. 0:09:19.340 --> 0:09:21.860 White people are grown. They go to the moon. They 0:09:21.900 --> 0:09:24.960 run parts of the world. They are billionaires, but they 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.739 cannot say the word nigga, nigga, please. So I think 0:09:27.780 --> 0:09:29.740 that at the end of the day, we've got to 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.880 assert the legitimacy of this term that has evolved out 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.360 of our culture, where we have sent messages to each 0:09:37.420 --> 0:09:41.580 other and to ourselves about both affirmation and recrimination and 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:42.920 hurt and pain at the same time. 0:09:43.179 --> 0:09:46.400 I want to go to Dara really quick. Because in 2007, 0:09:46.400 --> 0:10:07.280 the NAACP buried the N-word. buried the N-word. There was 0:10:07.300 --> 0:10:11.560 a whole casket. There were eulogies. From Julian Bond, y'all, 0:10:11.580 --> 0:10:12.660 to Kwame Kilpatrick. 0:10:12.740 --> 0:10:13.120 Oh, boy. 0:10:13.140 --> 0:10:14.300 There was a for real few. 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:14.540 Wow. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:17.420 But I will ask you, D, what do you think 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:23.610 has happened since that 2007 very, you know, dramatic ceremonial 0:10:23.690 --> 0:10:24.830 burial of the N-word. 0:10:25.230 --> 0:10:29.210 So I'm going to start where Dr. Dyson left off. 0:10:30.170 --> 0:10:33.280 As Black folks, we said culture. And people adapt how 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:36.540 we move, how we sing, what we say. And in 0:10:36.700 --> 0:10:40.740 uses of the word, we're given license to folks outside 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.400 of our community, whether we realize it or not. And 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.540 so when we give that license and then we hear 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.700 it back and we get angry... Should we be getting 0:10:48.860 --> 0:10:52.319 angry or should we monitor how we want to be reflected? 0:10:53.020 --> 0:10:54.790 You know, Birth of a Nation was mentioned earlier. 0:10:54.910 --> 0:10:59.310 We got into trying to impact the images of black 0:10:59.390 --> 0:11:04.480 folks in 1915. We jumped on Amos and Andy, and 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.839 you cannot find an Amos and Andy episode because of 0:11:07.900 --> 0:11:10.020 illegal settlement, the NAACP. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.760 When Richard Pryor went to Africa and came back and 0:11:12.780 --> 0:11:13.870 did his standup, he said. 0:11:13.900 --> 0:11:17.290 You know, we're not that. I will not use that 0:11:17.350 --> 0:11:20.110 word again. This is not about hip hop. This is 0:11:20.170 --> 0:11:23.110 not about how pretty or ugly a word is. This 0:11:23.210 --> 0:11:24.270 is about whether or not we're. 0:11:24.190 --> 0:11:28.100 Gonna give other people a license. to use a word. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:32.240 That has been offensive and have political and economic meaning 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:34.280 as it relates to our well-being. 0:11:34.660 --> 0:11:38.460 But don't you think? Y'all acting like we invented the term. 0:11:38.580 --> 0:11:39.460 White folk invented the term. 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:40.220 It doesn't matter. 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:42.040 It does matter. It matters a whole lot. 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.350 Because if white folk invented it and now we're saying 0:11:44.590 --> 0:11:45.970 we don't want to give them license to say it, 0:11:45.970 --> 0:11:48.030 they didn't ask us for permission to say nigga. 0:11:48.429 --> 0:11:49.790 They said it themselves. 0:11:50.090 --> 0:11:53.270 What we did was try to engage in a kind 0:11:53.350 --> 0:11:56.920 of linguistic negotiation with the terms of our existence. And 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.510 so you can take the word nigger away and they 0:11:59.530 --> 0:12:00.910 can still treat us like a nigger if they call 0:12:00.950 --> 0:12:03.170 us a hamburger or a cookie. The point is, at 0:12:03.190 --> 0:12:06.170 the end of the day, we can't predicate our engagement 0:12:06.490 --> 0:12:10.090 with linguistic or rhetorical forces because of the fact that 0:12:10.130 --> 0:12:13.010 it might upset or it might create the belief in 0:12:13.050 --> 0:12:14.060 white people that they can't say it. 0:12:14.130 --> 0:12:16.400 Most white folk know they can't say it. Most white 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:17.140 folk don't say it. 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.380 The reason why you don't see people on television, on radio, 0:12:20.460 --> 0:12:22.880 and when they do as white people, they are rebuked. 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.340 They don't do it because there has been a limit established. 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.100 Brother Lenard talks about black privilege. That is a black 0:12:29.140 --> 0:12:31.640 privilege that I don't think we should easily surrender. And 0:12:31.700 --> 0:12:33.620 if we do so, if we do it based upon 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.200 white people, that is the most white supremacist thing imagined, 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.420 that now we have to genuflect before the altar of 0:12:39.470 --> 0:12:42.670 their linguistic purity because they are afraid of their ears 0:12:43.030 --> 0:12:45.290 being penetrated by this word that they now feel that 0:12:45.309 --> 0:12:46.189 they have permission to say. 0:12:46.450 --> 0:12:48.850 They ain't asking us for permission. They saying it regardless. 0:12:48.870 --> 0:12:51.330 This ain't a black-white reality, right? If I go to Korea, 0:12:51.390 --> 0:12:53.469 I don't want to see Koreans calling me the N-word. 0:12:53.970 --> 0:12:54.350 Absolutely. 0:12:54.370 --> 0:12:56.310 If I go to China, I don't want them wrapping 0:12:56.350 --> 0:12:56.990 the N-word. 0:12:57.350 --> 0:13:01.130 Because we are so domesticated, we don't realize the power 0:13:01.150 --> 0:13:04.100 of our culture and what people pick up and how 0:13:04.140 --> 0:13:04.780 they see us. 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.400 When I'm on the continent of Africa, any of the 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:08.380 54 countries. 0:13:08.900 --> 0:13:12.480 They see a black American as being something from a. 0:13:12.980 --> 0:13:13.560 Boys' hood. 0:13:14.300 --> 0:13:17.070 We have to change the image by which people see us, 0:13:17.110 --> 0:13:20.710 how they hear us, and what they respond to. When 0:13:20.770 --> 0:13:23.030 I was in Detroit— I went to that better high 0:13:23.050 --> 0:13:25.890 school than you did. Western high school was the most 0:13:25.910 --> 0:13:29.290 diverse high school still is. If we catch one of 0:13:29.320 --> 0:13:32.220 the white boys, Mexican or Puerto Ricans, saying it, they 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.800 getting socked in the mouth. Why should we give people 0:13:35.820 --> 0:13:36.459 a license? 0:13:37.410 --> 0:13:39.630 How are you giving them license, though? How are you 0:13:39.770 --> 0:13:41.270 using it, giving them license? 0:13:41.290 --> 0:13:44.200 Because we set standards. We are the culture. People try 0:13:44.220 --> 0:13:46.380 to emulate us all the time. 0:13:46.700 --> 0:13:49.460 But they know not to. But I'm saying most white people. 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:50.220 I'm not saying all white people. 0:13:50.260 --> 0:13:50.940 I'm touching you right there. 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:51.400 Cite your sword. 0:13:51.620 --> 0:13:53.040 You said they know not to. 0:13:53.950 --> 0:13:58.690 I'm saying I'm saying empirically verifiable information and evidence suggests 0:13:58.710 --> 0:14:01.599 to us most white people in our presence in public. 0:14:01.620 --> 0:14:02.620 I'm not brother. 0:14:02.770 --> 0:14:05.500 Squires made a difference between commercial and private and public. 0:14:05.820 --> 0:14:08.900 I'm saying in in public, most white folk are not 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:09.900 saying the word nigger. 0:14:10.420 --> 0:14:11.120 In our presence. 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:12.980 That's what I'm saying. I'm in public. 0:14:13.380 --> 0:14:15.239 They can say, I can't control what they do at 0:14:15.260 --> 0:14:17.160 the crib. What they do at the crib is what 0:14:17.190 --> 0:14:19.010 they do at the crib. I'm saying there's a public 0:14:19.070 --> 0:14:22.870 censorship that is imposed upon white people to a degree 0:14:22.910 --> 0:14:24.150 that they don't feel. 0:14:25.650 --> 0:14:28.740 Successfully able to do so or feel comfortable. Why do 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:29.200 we know that? 0:14:29.260 --> 0:14:31.760 Because when they do do it, it's news. When they 0:14:31.820 --> 0:14:34.640 do do it, it makes sense. Social media go crazy. 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.340 So my point is most white folk know what the 0:14:37.380 --> 0:14:39.880 limits are and they ain't operating with the belief that 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:41.250 they have the ability to say it. 0:14:41.550 --> 0:14:43.200 I just wanted to get in here five minutes ago. 0:14:43.210 --> 0:14:43.950 Let me go to Liz. 0:14:43.970 --> 0:14:45.790 I have a different point now, but I just feel like. 0:14:52.570 --> 0:14:54.670 But I just think about all the different ways in 0:14:54.710 --> 0:14:58.170 which we have tried to assert ourselves with like respectability. 0:14:58.780 --> 0:15:01.950 And it does not change the way we are perceived. 0:15:02.010 --> 0:15:04.570 Like back in the early 19th century, there was a 0:15:04.670 --> 0:15:08.870 method that free people in the North used called moral suasion, 0:15:09.270 --> 0:15:10.930 that they were going to try to act and dress 0:15:10.970 --> 0:15:14.340 and behave in public in order to establish their citizenship. 0:15:14.660 --> 0:15:17.300 They were not seen as citizens. It didn't matter what 0:15:17.340 --> 0:15:19.670 they were wearing and what they had on. that this 0:15:19.730 --> 0:15:22.620 white supremacy was larger than them. So I think that 0:15:22.940 --> 0:15:23.210 to me. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:25.460 Elizabeth Higginbottom, that's the source she's still. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:25.940 Thank you. 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:27.250 Thank you. 0:15:27.410 --> 0:15:29.040 But I think, too, that there's like a. 0:15:29.860 --> 0:15:31.020 There's a subversion. 0:15:31.060 --> 0:15:35.570 There's a real subversion, satire, and protest when black people 0:15:35.620 --> 0:15:36.670 are using the N-word. 0:15:36.970 --> 0:15:39.369 And I do think, listen, I don't want to use it. 0:15:39.450 --> 0:15:40.190 I've never said it. 0:15:40.750 --> 0:15:43.450 It is dry in my mouth. So I'm talking about 0:15:43.530 --> 0:15:48.420 people like my father, who was Richard Pryor, who stepped 0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:50.760 into that conversation and wanted to give voice to an 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:55.380 authentic black reality. And I just think Thinking that taking 0:15:55.420 --> 0:15:58.330 that word out of black mouths is going to cure 0:15:58.370 --> 0:16:01.710 the problem of white supremacy or white people saying it is, 0:16:02.230 --> 0:16:05.109 they had 400 years, right? They had 400 years to 0:16:05.210 --> 0:16:07.210 squash it and make it go away, and they didn't. 0:16:08.150 --> 0:16:08.850 Yeah, go ahead. 0:16:08.890 --> 0:16:11.240 No, I was going to say, the way I would 0:16:11.290 --> 0:16:12.800 want to come back in the conversation is to say, 0:16:14.100 --> 0:16:16.520 my decision to use or not use or my analysis 0:16:16.540 --> 0:16:18.680 of how people use the word does not begin with 0:16:18.700 --> 0:16:19.000 white people. 0:16:19.230 --> 0:16:19.490 Right. 0:16:19.650 --> 0:16:21.410 I grew up in New York City. I've been living 0:16:21.450 --> 0:16:21.930 in the D.C. 0:16:22.010 --> 0:16:24.830 Area for almost 20 years. I live in a majority 0:16:24.850 --> 0:16:26.990 black county. I don't live my life saying, well, what 0:16:27.010 --> 0:16:29.110 do white people think about this particular thing? For me, 0:16:29.250 --> 0:16:32.110 what's much more important is not what other people call me. 0:16:32.150 --> 0:16:34.380 It's what I answer to. It's what I believe about myself. 0:16:34.670 --> 0:16:36.620 My wife and I are raising our four children. We 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.300 don't raise them with specific values and principles because, well, 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:42.160 when you go outside, a white person is going to 0:16:42.180 --> 0:16:44.060 see you this way. We raise them that way because 0:16:44.100 --> 0:16:45.560 we want them to know who they are and whose 0:16:45.580 --> 0:16:48.400 they are. They're created in God's image. So for me, 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.390 it's not whether white people use it or don't use it. And, 0:16:51.630 --> 0:16:54.540 you know, to the professor's point, I think, yes, white 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:56.780 people don't use the word in public because there's certain 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:59.720 social sanctions that go along with that. My question to 0:16:59.820 --> 0:17:02.540 our community always comes back to the same thing. Why 0:17:02.580 --> 0:17:04.730 is it that we always have higher standards for white 0:17:04.770 --> 0:17:05.990 people than we do for ourselves? 0:17:06.050 --> 0:17:06.810 Now, Delano. 0:17:07.410 --> 0:17:10.470 I'll stand on that. Let me quote the professor. Let 0:17:10.510 --> 0:17:11.770 me quote the professor. 0:17:11.970 --> 0:17:13.369 This is empirically true. 0:17:13.410 --> 0:17:13.750 Hold on. 0:17:13.850 --> 0:17:14.090 Hold on. 0:17:14.130 --> 0:17:14.369 Hold on. 0:17:14.410 --> 0:17:14.730 Hold on. 0:17:14.750 --> 0:17:15.290 Hold on. 0:17:15.310 --> 0:17:15.550 Hold on. 0:17:15.570 --> 0:17:16.119 Hold on. 0:17:16.130 --> 0:17:16.580 Hold on. 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:16.850 Hold on. 0:17:16.880 --> 0:17:17.350 Hold on. 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:17.850 Hold on. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:18.240 Hold on. 0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:26.199 No, no, no. 0:17:26.260 --> 0:17:27.600 OK, I want to hear your empirical. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.120 We give white people more grace than we give each other. 0:17:30.180 --> 0:17:34.450 I know that much. When it comes to language, when 0:17:34.470 --> 0:17:36.250 it comes to imagery, there's certain. 0:17:36.270 --> 0:17:36.869 Let me tell you something. 0:17:37.050 --> 0:17:39.889 If Eminem ever let the letters N-I-G get to the 0:17:40.030 --> 0:17:42.770 front of his lips, there would be boycotts all across 0:17:42.850 --> 0:17:43.350 urban radio. 0:17:43.369 --> 0:17:44.369