1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephane. 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: Never told your protection of iHeart Radio, and today we 3 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: are once again thrilled, so ecstatic, joyful to be joined 4 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 1: by the amazing world traveling bridget I love the introductions 5 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: you all give. They won't they like truly warm my heart? Yes, 6 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: well you warm our heart by being here, especially when 7 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: you're doing so much other stuff and you are coming 8 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: at us from a different location. Correct, that's right, I'm 9 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,639 Speaker 1: coming from you live. Well, not it won't be live 10 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: when people hear this, but live for right now from 11 00:00:55,440 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: Mexico City, Mexico, where it's nice and warm. Yeah, it's 12 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: lovely here. It looks lovely. You've got like a like 13 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 1: healthy light glow coming in behind me. Where we're staying 14 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 1: is like has a lovely view and like all the 15 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: different monuments and stuff. And then there's I didn't know 16 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: that Mexico City is so mountainous, so it's like a 17 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: really it's kind of like being in California, like a 18 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: beautiful view. But then skyscrapers. Yeah, ten out of ten 19 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:27,960 Speaker 1: can recommend. Yes, So you're having a good time. Can 20 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 1: you give us some highlights, some food? Maybe that you've had. 21 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: Oh yes, everything I've eaten has been amazing. Honestly, it's 22 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: so One of the reasons I wanted to come to 23 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: Mexico City was because of the food. I've been told 24 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: that you could go to like Michelin Star, super Bougee 25 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: restaurants and get a delicious meal in Mexico City if 26 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: you wanted to, or just get like, you know, cheap 27 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: tacos on the street and that would be delicious. And 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: so I've been eating all the things, lots of street tacos, 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: which are great. Something else I like is they take 30 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: breakfast very seriously here. I am a breakfast person. I 31 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: really like that. So lots of good breakfasts items. Yeah, 32 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: so far I've I've I've only been here since Saturday, 33 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: so it hasn't been that long. But looking forward to 34 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: eating all the things. Yes, oh yes, say you've been 35 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: there almost a week, so yeah, I think you've gotten 36 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: You've gotten some variety. I'm sure you're gonna have a 37 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: whole lot more. But that's I'm very jealous of, like 38 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: the breakfast because I'm sure it's all spicy and delicious. 39 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: There's something about a savory, spicy breakfast. It does it 40 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: really doesn't want it. I'll be there. Save a couch 41 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: for me, Save a couch. Yes, yes, as well. We're 42 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: looking forward to checking back in more food updates hopefully. 43 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, thank you so much for taking the time 44 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: to join us from a different city when you haven't 45 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: been there. That loan oh always a pleasure. And my 46 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: own podcast, There Are No Girls on the Internet is 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: on a hiatus, so I feel like in this time 48 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: where I'm not podcasting, having an outlet where I and 49 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: be like I saw this thing on the internet and 50 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: I have to talk about it with somebody has been 51 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: great for me. So thank you for having me. Yes, absolutely, 52 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: And the topic he bought today is fascinating and such 53 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: like a big one and one that we have discussed 54 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: a lot on the show recently because we've been kind 55 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: of on a tech streak on the show and not 56 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: to like, not to put words into anyone else's mouths. 57 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: But I didn't grow up with social media. I got 58 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: it late college. I would say it was the earliest 59 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: that I got. Some friends of mine got it when 60 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: I was in high school, but I was kind of 61 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: a late bloomer, as they say, And I know it 62 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 1: sounds kind of like back in my day, but I'm 63 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: pretty thankful for it, honestly in a lot of ways. 64 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 1: And this this kind of new phenomenon of all of 65 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: our lives, but especially in this outline bridget of children's 66 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: lives being on the internet is fairly new and in 67 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: a lot of ways kind of disturbing, a little unsettling. 68 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 1: I did want to ask before we get into this 69 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: conversation both of you, what was your kind of experience 70 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: with social media? And also, and you can pass on 71 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: this one because I know it's kind of a fraught subject. 72 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: Does your family follow you on social media? Oh? What 73 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: a good question. Well, you know, we just before we 74 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: got on here talked about the fact that I am 75 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: from the generation of beepers and that the Internet was 76 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: not a thing until I almost got into college. Essentially, 77 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: like at the tail end of everything. The beeper was 78 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 1: due to my job and at my first job out 79 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: of college, I was a child abuse investigator and those 80 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: systems were getting online, were you. I was still in 81 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: the time when we were doing everything by hand. Essentially, 82 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,360 Speaker 1: that was where I am. The technology and social media 83 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: was fairly new for me. I think outside of college 84 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: I had like MySpace, and Facebook. I dabbled at first, 85 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: and since then I'm like, Okay, I like the social 86 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: media thing. But I am also very grateful, especially seeing 87 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: what my nieces and nephew have gone through with social media, 88 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: which they are gen zer so it's a whole different level. 89 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: I do have family that follow me. I do not 90 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: like it, and now a post less because they follow me. Yeah. Say, 91 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: we were talking about how the first time I met you, Samantha, 92 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: you this was just a couple of years ago, you 93 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: had a beeper on your person the first time we 94 00:05:55,880 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: met in person years ago. Yeah, my relationship with social media, 95 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: I Anny, I'm kind of like you, Like, I am 96 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: so glad that I came of age in a time 97 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: where social media, Like I'm glad that what I was 98 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: doing on social media or like the early days of 99 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: my Internet usage is not still around behunt me or 100 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: at LEAs Scott, I hope not. So. I was using 101 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: things like live journal when I was in early high school. 102 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 1: And I remember I was in college when we first 103 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: got Facebook, and before Facebook, it was my Space, so 104 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: like I was like a scene kid and so college, 105 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: like my Space dominated my college experience. Like that was 106 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: like how you understood and kept up with my gross 107 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:52,599 Speaker 1: scenster hipster friends in college. But it's funny because even 108 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:57,240 Speaker 1: though I was dabbling with social media back then, it's 109 00:06:57,279 --> 00:06:59,359 Speaker 1: so different than it is today, Like it like it 110 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,480 Speaker 1: doesn't even feel the same thing. I guess it technically 111 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: was social media, but the implications were so different than 112 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: I mean, back then, you were spending hours making it 113 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: so that when you go to your MySpace page it 114 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: has like falling stars and an AutoPlay panic at the 115 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: disco song that nobody can pause. But it was stuff 116 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: like that, and it was social media, but it was 117 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: so different than today. The question of whether or not 118 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: my family follows me on social media, I don't allow 119 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: them to follow me on social media. This could be 120 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: along our conversation, but I feel like I've kind of 121 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: accepted that my social media and digital presence is not 122 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: actually who I am in real life, and so you know, 123 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: you should really be thinking about, like when you post 124 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: on social media, like who is your audience? Who is 125 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: this for? And so who I actually am that the 126 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: audience for that is like my friends and family, people 127 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: who knew me in real life, my online persona, if 128 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: you will, that's not for my friends and family. That's 129 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: where people who are interest that in my podcast, interested 130 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: in my content, that kind of thing like, And so 131 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: I draw like pretty clear distinction between the two. Like 132 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: I almost think of my social media or my like 133 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: digital self as like my avatar for my real self. 134 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: And I don't like the idea of the two kind 135 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: of the two world's kind of overlapping. So I try 136 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,440 Speaker 1: to keep a very clear distinction between my friends and 137 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: family IRL and my social media persona, which I don't 138 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: see as my real self, If that makes sense. I 139 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: know I probably sound like somebody who just took a 140 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: huge bong rip. I swear to god, I have not. 141 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,959 Speaker 1: You know, that's pretty fascinating because I think that says 142 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: a lot to the reality of social media when you 143 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: say it like that, there is a persona and there's 144 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 1: this whole level of understanding that there's a difference between 145 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 1: the person and what's seen on screen in different accounts 146 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: and different platforms. And I know, as we're talking about 147 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: the subject you're bringing, which I have a lot of opinions, 148 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: so I'm really really excited and a lot of concerns, 149 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: just as being in child welfare, but in that level 150 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: of what we see and what is posted, and who 151 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: has control of what is being posted. Absolutely, it's so complicated. 152 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 1: And I think it's complicated for me as a grown 153 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: woman in my thirties. I can only managine how much 154 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: more complicated it gets navigating this as a young person. 155 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: So I know that I came on the show quite 156 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: a while ago to talk about Francis Hogan, the Facebook 157 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: whistle blower, and what she her whistle blowing revealed about 158 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: what Facebook and Instagram knows about how social media negatively 159 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 1: it impacts young girls. And so that was a conversation 160 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: that we had. But this conversation is a little bit 161 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: different because it really asks what happens when it's not 162 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 1: the you know, teen or the child getting on social 163 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: media themselves. What happens when it's the mom or the 164 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: parent who is kind of forcing I use that word 165 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,679 Speaker 1: in quotes, forcing their child to be part of their 166 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: social media content, part of their social media persona. And 167 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: so on my podcast, there are no girls on the Internet. 168 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: I did this fascinating interview with this woman, Sarah Adams, 169 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: and she runs the TikTok account mom Uncharted. She told 170 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: me that she calls her account mom uncharted because social media, 171 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: if you think about it, it's really like this uncharted 172 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: territory for parenting, and we really do not know how 173 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: social media will impact our kids. If you want to 174 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:26,120 Speaker 1: listen to the whole interview, check out my podcast It's 175 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: It's she's a really fascinating person, but her social media 176 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 1: account is dedicated to explorations of kind of mom influencing 177 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: and like mom run accounts and all the different ways 178 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: that parents. It's honestly, it's usually moms use their children 179 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: for content on social media. She told me that social media, 180 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: you know, the dynamics around it have changed so quickly, 181 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 1: not that long ago. If I was to say something like, oh, 182 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 1: sharing your kid on social media, you might think that 183 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 1: means like posting a cute picture on Facebook where your 184 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: great aunt or your uncle or something might like it. Now, 185 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: kids we're not even really old enough to understand what 186 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: it means, not to mention, not old enough to consent 187 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: to it, can have their most intimate or sensitive or 188 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,880 Speaker 1: embarrassing moments seen by millions of people on social media 189 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: platforms like TikTok. Right, as we've said in a lot 190 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,679 Speaker 1: of these past episodes, this is sort of an iteration 191 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: of things we've seen before. This is going to also 192 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: kind of age me. But my parents wants in a 193 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: video of me as a kid to America's funny as 194 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: some videos, But that's like very different, Like they weren't 195 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 1: going to make money off of it, right, But what 196 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: were you doing in the video? Never you mind? I 197 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: was alternately like so enamored with a frog and then 198 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: terrified of the frog. It's just like it wasn't that funny, 199 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: but I thought it was very funny. But then it 200 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,720 Speaker 1: became like you know, reality TV, and we've talked about 201 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: those things before as well, of like kind of the 202 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: dance Mom's situation. And then now it becomes what we're 203 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: seeing on social media where people are making money off 204 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 1: of this content of their kids, where the kids can't 205 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: consent to it, where it will probably never be able 206 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: to be fully erased if that's what they wanted. If 207 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: that's what they wanted, And then I know we're going 208 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: to talk about this later, but there's kind of all 209 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: these achy issues around, like paras social relationships people develop 210 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: with these kids, and what do we do about that? 211 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: Like is that the platform? Is it the parent that's 212 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: posting this content? Like all of these questions that come 213 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: from from what it like one level can seem like, oh, 214 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: this is just a cute video of this kid falling 215 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: over something, but on, but when you dig deeper than that, 216 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: there's just all of these other questions exactly and you 217 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: put it so well right, Like, just to level set, 218 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: I don't feel like every parent who shares content of 219 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: their kid is is created equal here, Like, there's a 220 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,320 Speaker 1: pretty big difference between you know, sharing the occasional family 221 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 1: vacation video or like cute picture or whatever with your 222 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: friends on social media or even the wider Internet. There's 223 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: a difference between that which I think most people do 224 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: and is like fine and running a business that generates 225 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: income from relying on an audience of millions of people 226 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: engaging with your child, right, And there are so many 227 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 1: questions that you just kind of alluded to and reasons 228 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: for why we should sort of be asking questions about 229 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: what that is doing to our kids. One of the 230 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 1: things that I think is unique about social media and 231 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: technology in general is how quickly it moves. Things just 232 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: move really quickly, and I think that when it comes 233 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: to our kids and the impact on our kids, it 234 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:57,640 Speaker 1: would behove us to not move really quickly, would behove 235 00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: us to take a minute, pump the brakes and do 236 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: some real deep thought about how we want our children 237 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: to be showing up on social media and whether or 238 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: not it's actually good for them psychologically, emotionally, and whether 239 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: or not it's actually safe like in the real you know, 240 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: in every implication of the word, like sometimes it is 241 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: not safe to share so much of your child on 242 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: social media with strangers. You know, first there might be 243 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: a negative psychological impact on kids. I really wanted to 244 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: find I was like, oh, I'm going to get some 245 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: good media research on this. But as the uncharted part 246 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 1: of Sarah Adams's TikTok Names suggests, there kind of isn't 247 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: a ton of good research out there about the way 248 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: that being used for content by your parents would impact children. 249 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,040 Speaker 1: And that's partly because it's just so new. Morgan sung 250 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 1: over at NBC. She's one of my favorite Internet reporters, 251 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: and she's really been following this beat of young people 252 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 1: who have been kind of turned into content by their parents. 253 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: So Morgan spoke to Lindsey Cooley, who was a light 254 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 1: since clinical child psychologists, who said that because social media 255 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,520 Speaker 1: is so relatively new. There is not really a lot 256 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: of clinical research on the long term effects of what 257 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: she calls growing up online, but lately, some kids who 258 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: did grow up with parents who shared every aspect of 259 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: their lives on social media are starting to speak out. 260 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: Morgan Thong talked to Cam, whose mom used to make 261 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: content about their life. Kim said that their mom sharing 262 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 1: every single detail of their life had a real negative 263 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: impact on their mental health, and eventually they kind of 264 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: stopped being open with their mom about whatever they were 265 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: going through because they knew this is just going to 266 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: wind up being shared on the internet with her followers. 267 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: Cam is immunocompromised and would spend a lot of time 268 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: ill or sick, and rather than like being there for them, 269 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 1: Cam says that their mom would just be filming these 270 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: filmingns for content. So at times in their life where 271 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: they were sick or stressed or going through something difficult, 272 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: their mom would be there with a camera in their face, right, 273 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,920 Speaker 1: And I think that's the way you phrased it, of like, 274 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: you know, using kids for content, of like then you 275 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: become something like a tool to get clicks, as opposed 276 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: to like a child that needs care and needs help 277 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: and needs respects, and how damaging that absolutely would be 278 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: if if you start to feel like, oh, it's just 279 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: like my tears are just a way for you to 280 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 1: film something and get people to watch it. Like what 281 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: what would that do to you? Like that's very damaging? 282 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: I think yeah. And it's actually as an adult, like 283 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: speaking of that sort of distinction between my social media 284 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: life or my digital life and my real life. I 285 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: don't really share a lot of my like real life 286 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: on social media, and in part it's because of that 287 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 1: tension that you just named. If I have something in 288 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: my life it is really truly meaningful to me, I 289 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: am really uncomfortable with the idea of that being content, 290 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: of that being something to generate clicks, of that being 291 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,120 Speaker 1: something that's going to have a number attached to it, like, oh, 292 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 1: three hundred people liked that my grandfather passed away or whatever. 293 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: Like I'm I really am not comfortable with that personally, 294 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:21,440 Speaker 1: and so I tend to keep big or meaningful real 295 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 1: life moments off of social media because of that, because 296 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 1: I don't like the idea, and I'm like, no shade 297 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 1: to anybody who doesn't feel that way, this is just 298 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: how it feels. For me, it just doesn't feel right, 299 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: and I think for me it feels like it is 300 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: does a disservice to how meaningful those moments truly are 301 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,879 Speaker 1: in my life. I don't want to see Mark Zuckerberg's 302 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: engagement metric on the back end of something that was 303 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 1: like deeply meaningful to me in my real life. That 304 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: seems the cheap and that feels a little bit cheap 305 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,920 Speaker 1: to me, I guess, yeah, And it is interesting because again, 306 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 1: we are adults, and if you want to post that 307 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 1: content and you're contenting to yeah, you're so you can 308 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: consent to it. Then that's one thing. It still feels 309 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: strange because that's a whole separate podcast, but kind of 310 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,639 Speaker 1: still like, oh, here's this sad thing. I have to 311 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: like it because otherwise they're gonna be mad. I didn't 312 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: like it, Like there's like this kind of social dynamic 313 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: around it that feels odd because then you're like, well, 314 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 1: I'm liking this thing. That's really sad, but if I 315 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: don't do it. But I do think that, and please 316 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: don't come at me, listeners, but I do think like, 317 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,440 Speaker 1: in the same way people sometimes use like pets or 318 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: puppies to be like Oh look, how cute. Click on 319 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: this content. Here they are people are using their kids 320 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: like that, like see here's my life. Here's this like 321 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: view of my life, and like, oh, what did my 322 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: kid do today to get these clicks? And if that 323 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: is like, oh, my kid is very sick and I 324 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: am going through a hard time. Please, you know, give 325 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: me these likes, give me this engagement. It does become 326 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: pretty murky, right. You know. It's interesting too as we 327 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: were talking about the levels, like you're talking about social 328 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: media etiquette, which has been a conversation like how do 329 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: you go from this, but also how social media has grown, 330 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: Like when you think of the initial Facebook, it was 331 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: literally to connect with college friends for me, or your 332 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,400 Speaker 1: past friends or high school friends that you haven't seen. 333 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: So you may be updating so I might get a 334 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: picture of my old high school friend who had a 335 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: child and oh how cute. And it wasn't necessarily about 336 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 1: getting likes and looks. It's just hey, I'm updating you 337 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: about my life, even to the point that like wedding announcements, 338 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: funeral announcements were done on Facebook. I'm on Facebook still 339 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:40,840 Speaker 1: to remember people's birthdays and to get an event advice 340 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: because a lot of people used to use that as 341 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: the way of getting invitations or birthday parties or even 342 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: sometimes weddings, which is really odd. But the level that 343 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: we have grown to is this genre of TikTok. TikTok 344 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: is not a thing you can do private, and you 345 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 1: can do small content, but it really is a race 346 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: to see what can go viral and what can make 347 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: money and what can get sponsorships. And it's changed vastly 348 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: from what an elder millennial light myself knew it as 349 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: to what it is today. But because people are learning 350 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: things so fast or getting access to things so quickly, 351 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: the etiquette has been kind of lost or lost in 352 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: translation perhaps, and it's become a point that for the 353 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: Gen Z years and I guess newer millennials, what are 354 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: those younger millennials baby millennials have seen this as a 355 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 1: norm and don't didn't realize until maybe just recently, as 356 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 1: the younger generators who've been on social media all of 357 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: their lives since their birth have started to call it 358 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: out that this was normal and in competition and a 359 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,520 Speaker 1: way of possibly making a living, and it's just kind 360 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: of made this whole culture completely different from what it 361 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: was even three years ago. Oh my god, that's that's 362 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: such an insightful point. And I do think it is 363 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: like it is not just human nature. It is a 364 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: little bit, it's some of it, but it's also exactly 365 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: what you said, I think. I think it's algorithmically generated 366 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: platforms where whatever is extreme or over the top or 367 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: whatever gets more attention, and platforms like TikTok, where that 368 00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: is the currency is like that, that's what gets engagement. 369 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 1: Is is that attention And so you have people, so 370 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: that's that's like its own thing. When you add in 371 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: kids to the mix, that it just kind of has 372 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: the potential to really be so fraught. Like I remember, 373 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: it was some YouTuber I don't know her name off hand, 374 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: but she was kind of like quote unquote canceled because 375 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: she was known for being like a YouTuber who showed 376 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: her family and her family pet passed away, and so 377 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: she was making a YouTube video about how her family 378 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: pet passed away, and I guess she accidentally uploaded the 379 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:02,800 Speaker 1: unedited footage where her child was very like genuinely authentically 380 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 1: upset and crying and the parent was, rather than consoling 381 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: this child, trying to tell the child to contort his 382 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: face so that it would be really so it would 383 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: be like a really extreme picture of them crying, because 384 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 1: she knew that if you use that image of an 385 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: extreme close up of like a distorted face who's experiencing 386 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,640 Speaker 1: extreme emotion, if you use that for the thumbnail on YouTube, 387 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: it gets more engagement. If you ever look at YouTube 388 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,199 Speaker 1: videos and you're wondering, why do all the thumbnails have 389 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 1: people making really weird over the top faces that nobody 390 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: really makes in real life, it's because they have figured 391 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:43,679 Speaker 1: out that the algorithm rewards videos that include faces like that. 392 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: And so while this child is experiencing a genuine response 393 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: emotionally to losing their pet, mom is like, oh, make 394 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 1: sure that you really give me a good cry face 395 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: so that my YouTube video about this performs well. And 396 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: so I think it's not just our or as humans, 397 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: it's also platforms that are prompting people into behavior that 398 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: they would not otherwise probably do if not for the 399 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: way that platforms kind of encourage us to do this. 400 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,360 Speaker 1: Do that makes sense? No, yeah, absolutely, I think again, 401 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: like the Squeaky Will gets the Oil type of thing 402 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: where you see the most dramatic or the most over 403 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: the top, like one of the things that's really thriving 404 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: on TikTok is people calling out other people for cheating 405 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: or thinking they're cheating if you're so and so I 406 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: just saw her husband here talking into this girl like 407 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: that's been a big thing and it shouldn't be as before. 408 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: Like there's a part of this, like, yes, let the 409 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: women know so they can get out, but it's also 410 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: purely for entertainment, for the numbers, for the likes, And 411 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,600 Speaker 1: then as we see with these children, more and more 412 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: shocking things that people think is okay, I know a 413 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: YouTuber as you were talking about another YouTuber family, we 414 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: talked about this recently. Actually, in one of the episodes 415 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: you came on, the couple adopted the child just for 416 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: the sake of saying, where good people and adopted this child, 417 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: come on this journey with us, and then all of 418 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: a sudden, the child disappeared, and everybody, look, what the 419 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 1: hell just happened? What did you do to this child? 420 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: And it's the same way as we've seen several the 421 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: couple who did the experiment with their two young boys saying, hey, 422 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna say that one of your brothers died. Your 423 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,720 Speaker 1: pretend brother died, just go along with it so we 424 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: can make money. And this was a whole experiment on 425 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: the kids for entertainment. The audience is supposed to know 426 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,880 Speaker 1: that this is a joke. We're just testing the kids. 427 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: Let's see how the kids react. And it was so 428 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,720 Speaker 1: traumatizing to watch these kids pretending like they're lying but 429 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,760 Speaker 1: questioning why we're doing this, and then having it filmed 430 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 1: and everybody saying, what are you doing? This is so 431 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: mentally damaging to your child. But you're doing this for 432 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,719 Speaker 1: the sake of TikTok to show what So the example 433 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 1: that you brought up earlier, the family, the YouTube family 434 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: that adopted a child, they're gonna We're gonna return to them. 435 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: They make a little surprised guest appearance in this episode. 436 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,959 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think that there is I 437 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 1: honestly think it goes back to something that you said, Sam. 438 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: I think it's a situation where because the Internet has 439 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: moved so quickly from where it was when I was 440 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 1: updating my MySpace profile in my dorm room in college 441 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: to today, that wasn't that long I'm old, but I'm 442 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: not that old, right, That wasn't that long ago? And 443 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 1: where we were then and where we are now are 444 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 1: completely different. So it's moved so quickly, and I think 445 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: it's a situation where not like the cultural norms around 446 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:42,479 Speaker 1: what is and it's not acceptable, healthy, okay to do 447 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: a good idea to do whatever, those have not kept 448 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 1: up with how quickly the technology has moved, and so 449 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: we now can film our kids inside of our house 450 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: and quickly uploaded to TikTok or YouTube and get a 451 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: million views. Our society has perhaps not progressed to a 452 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: place where it's like but would and I would argue 453 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: that our laws have also not kept up with that. 454 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: And so I do think there's something about the speed 455 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,640 Speaker 1: with which the internet has changed, it become so ubiquitous 456 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,160 Speaker 1: in our lives that we have not pumped the brakes 457 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,439 Speaker 1: and allowed for cultural norms, societal norms, the law to 458 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: all catch up to where we are right now, and 459 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: especially the fact that kids are involved. We absolutely should 460 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: be taking the time to be a little bit more 461 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,480 Speaker 1: introspective and slow down a little bit, to have a 462 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: cultural reset about what is it is not okay when 463 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: it comes to filming children for strangers online, right, And 464 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 1: it kind of always reminds me of the thing that 465 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 1: I had to tell kids as Snapchat and all those 466 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: different things were existing, again reminding them you may think 467 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: it's not on the internet, but it's on the internet, 468 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: so just as a reminder, but also the government is 469 00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,240 Speaker 1: very quick to use things like this to go after 470 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: the margin laws communities, and that's a whole different conversation, 471 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: I know, but having to try to explain to both 472 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: parents and two children, like, hey, you posting this picture 473 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: of your half naked child is actually can be considered 474 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,880 Speaker 1: child porn and you can be arrested on a felony, 475 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: and then being completely shocked, and then having also letting 476 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: the kids know, hey, you just sending it yourself, even 477 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: though you're doing it with your quote unquote consent. As 478 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: a minor, you don't have the ability to consent. But 479 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: it's only going after specific things and specific morality rather 480 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: than what the root of the problem is with the 481 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: social media. Oh my god, same I This is kind 482 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: of a non sequitur I had, but the most like 483 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:38,199 Speaker 1: weird conversation with a stranger on TikTok it was for 484 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: whatever reason, I get surfaced a lot of content about hallucinogens. 485 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 1: Like hallucinogens drugs. TikTok thinks I'm very interested in like 486 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: expanding my mind. And there was a woman who is 487 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: a woman look like a woman of color to me 488 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: talking about how she enjoys using mushrooms and it's like, oh, like, 489 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:54,800 Speaker 1: come follow me from my beautiful day on mushrooms. And 490 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,479 Speaker 1: it did look like a beautiful day. Like she's at 491 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: the beach, she's like going for a swim. Looks fantastic. 492 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 1: That she goes to her car and it's like she's like, oh, 493 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: I had to drive home. And I was like, honey, 494 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: this is a video. You're a woman of color, and 495 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: this is a video of you admitting to a crime. 496 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:16,040 Speaker 1: Like this is not me judging you or me saying this, 497 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 1: but it is me knowing that. Like I've seen people. 498 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: I've seen people who are going through like contentious marital 499 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: situations to get CPS called on them. Like I've heard 500 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: horror stories of people who just uploaded stuff to the 501 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 1: Internet without thinking about it, and then they lost a job, 502 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 1: they lost a scholarship, the courts got involved, and somebody 503 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: else was like why why is that the first thing 504 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: that you jump to, And I was like, I understand that, 505 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: Like it sucks, and I like, I don't want to 506 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: be the person to have to tell you this and 507 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: like rain out of your parade from your nice day 508 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: that you were trying to show what the internet. But 509 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: I want to be the person that tells you the truth. 510 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: And the truth is that especially for people of color, you, 511 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 1: I mean, nobody should have be admitting to a crime 512 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: on video. But that's just like and that there, do 513 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: what you're gonna do if you're not hurting anybody whatever, 514 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: but like be smart about it, Like, don't have this 515 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 1: new era of social media where we don't necessarily have 516 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: the cultural norms firmly established anymore, the guardrails, if you 517 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Don't let that false feeling of 518 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: freedom make you think that we actually do have freedom online, 519 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,959 Speaker 1: especially if you're marginalized. I would that is just like 520 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: a rule of thumb. Don't admit to crimes on the Internet. 521 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: That's just like, I don't care how much engagement it 522 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: gets you. That's just an overall But as you're saying 523 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: for the person who's like, why do you have to 524 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 1: go to that like pessimistic view, And I know I'm 525 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: always joking about the fact that I'm pessimistic, but the 526 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: reality is it's really privileged for someone to not have 527 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,240 Speaker 1: to even worry about it. That's the problem. The problem 528 00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: about this is I have been on this side of 529 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: where I see police officers, I see court systems actually 530 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,400 Speaker 1: go after specific individuals because they've profiled them from jump 531 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: and then find the social media accounts and use every 532 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: bit they can from that because they're profiling once again. 533 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 1: And that I know we use that as just generalized 534 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: terms in the bigger picture, but it happens on social 535 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 1: media as well, as well as the fact that there 536 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: was a perfect example of this dude who's really big, 537 00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: TikToker got really big because he got he was funny. 538 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: Everybody loved him. He thought he was just hilarious. He 539 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: just cuts into a video and then tells a random 540 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: fact that was his whole thing, and then people found 541 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,680 Speaker 1: and dug into his earlier post where he brings his child, 542 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 1: where the child says all this homophobic and racist comments, 543 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,720 Speaker 1: which obviously was taught by him, and he's encouraging it, 544 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: and everybody's getting pissed at both the child and him, 545 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: and this is what he's done, not realizing that he 546 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 1: was going to blow up. But that's the consequence. It's like, 547 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: not only have you ruined your own reputation, you've already 548 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: ruined your child's. Oh my god. And it's like I 549 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: could only see that as like a parenting fail. If 550 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: your kid heard you using and repeated that and you 551 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 1: knew that was behavior that they were exhibiting, that is 552 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: one thing. Then being like I should film this for 553 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:15,120 Speaker 1: the internet because it's funny. That is I guess that's 554 00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:16,959 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. I'm not being very eloquent about it, 555 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: but I do think that we are in this point 556 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: where I don't know that people universally understand that not 557 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: every moment is okay to be shared on the internet. 558 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 1: And you know, I would I would hope for that 559 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: parent in that situation to be like, we need to 560 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: have a conversation about what is and it's not okay 561 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: to say the fact that this parent was like, Oh, 562 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: get the camera, this is gonna be great put this 563 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 1: on the internet. That really tells me that I think 564 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: that we are in a place where perhaps people are 565 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: not asking the question of should I be filming this? 566 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: What are the consequences? This is gonna be good for 567 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: my kid? Like I think that we just need to 568 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: have a little bit more introspection about what we share 569 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: to the internet for strangers and absolutely, and again, it 570 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: is this layer of safety that people think, because they 571 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,479 Speaker 1: don't people's reaction, they just record it and move on 572 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,640 Speaker 1: with their day until the consequences happened, that they're safe 573 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: to do this. And maybe they're thinking they're being relatable 574 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: or maybe they're trauma bonding with people, which is in itself, 575 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,040 Speaker 1: like why are you doing this, and it's doing at 576 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 1: the expense of a child, thinking maybe I don't know 577 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: if it's legitimate or if it's a ruse saying that 578 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to teach you. I'm just trying to 579 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 1: share our you know, our downfalls and I'm trying to 580 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: be real. But it's again at the expense of a 581 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 1: child's emotions and trauma. So that exact thing is the 582 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: reason why I wanted to talk about this because I 583 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 1: had a moment where I saw this video on TikTok 584 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: and I have to say it like, I was personally 585 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: triggered by this this TikTok that I saw, and it 586 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: was this video of a black mom who was washing 587 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: her black child's like braids, right, and so this so 588 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: she had a camera setup where it was holding her 589 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: child over the sync to like scrub her scale. And 590 00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: this little girl was like maybe she's like seven or eight. 591 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: She is bawling her eyes out. She is so upset. Right. 592 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: And so I'm a black woman. I have braids now. 593 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: I have braids for most of my life when I 594 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: was a kid, Like a lot of black women, my 595 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 1: hair has been something that is like a complicated thing, 596 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: like a lot of black women have complicated feelings about 597 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: their hair. And I have many a memory of crying 598 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 1: while getting my hair done, crying while getting my braids 599 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: taken you know, taken out or put in, And I 600 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: remember quite viscerally what a vulnerable position that I was 601 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 1: in in those times. I'm not saying that like moms 602 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: shouldn't do their kids hair if they cry, but I'm 603 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: saying I remember that being an emotional experience for me 604 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: that I was very vulnerable in. And I think a 605 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: lot of black women know what I'm talking about. And 606 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 1: so this child is sobbing while while this is happening, 607 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: the mom is like everybody, millions of people that are 608 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: going to see how you're acting right now, and the 609 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: little kid is like, what do you mean, and she's like, 610 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm filming this, And a little girl starts crying even 611 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: more and she's like, why are you filming this? And 612 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: her mom is like, I'm filming it for a hair tutorial. 613 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: And even though this is a little kid, she's pretty 614 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: she's pretty sharp. She says, why don't you film a 615 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: hair tutorial on your own head? And it just broke 616 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: my likeing something about watching that video of like I 617 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,440 Speaker 1: remember what it was like to be in distress. Now, 618 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm not saying that was like a traumatic experience for her. 619 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,160 Speaker 1: Kids cry for all kinds of reasons all the time, right, 620 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:24,640 Speaker 1: we were all kids once, we remember, but she's clearly 621 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: in distress, even if it's temporary distress. And so her 622 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: mom talking to the camera in this moment and being 623 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: like millions people are going to see this in the 624 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 1: moment really just made me sad. And the mom was 625 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 1: saying like, oh, well, Like in the comments of this TikTok, 626 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 1: she was saying like, well, I want to show other 627 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 1: black moms out there how you deal with a stressful, 628 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: hair washed day or and other people who were supporting 629 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: her were saying like, maybe she's looking for a community 630 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: of moms and wants to build community in solidary young line. 631 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 1: I could sort of see that, but ultimately, the number 632 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: one responsibility of a parent should be to create a 633 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 1: safe environment for your kid and all of this other 634 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: stuff like I can understand maybe sort of kind of 635 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: wanting to demonstrate, like, oh, here's how I, as a 636 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: black mom gets through a tough hair washing day. But 637 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: those are strangers. Your responsibility when your child is in 638 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: distress is to provide a safe environment for that child 639 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: who cares about these these strangers in your head that 640 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,520 Speaker 1: you are thinking about entertaining or whatever via this content. 641 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 1: And that's kind of what I'm talking about, like how 642 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,360 Speaker 1: we reached a point where folks have kind of forgotten 643 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: that your number one responsibility is to your child and 644 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,799 Speaker 1: to create a safe environment for that child, even if 645 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,680 Speaker 1: that means that this community of fictional moms looking for 646 00:35:44,760 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: support might have to get at someplace else, right, And 647 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 1: I know, as you said at the beginning, there hasn't 648 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,759 Speaker 1: been a lot of research in this. I know I 649 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,480 Speaker 1: read one article about how things like this does a 650 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: road like the trust a kid has and their parents, 651 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: because if it's like they can kind of sense, oh, well, 652 00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: they're doing this for some other reason, or there might 653 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:20,439 Speaker 1: be a trick behind this, or they might be trying 654 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: to manipulate an emotion out of me for someone else. 655 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: But also, something that I wanted to go back to 656 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: that you wrote about was this idea of feeling like 657 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: there's a invisible audience. Yeah, I found mis fascinating, so 658 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,680 Speaker 1: Lindsay Cooley, the licensed clinical child psychologist that spoke Tom 659 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,360 Speaker 1: Morgan Song at NBC. Coolly said that adults whose formative 660 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: years were shared online may never grow out of experiencing 661 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: what she described as the invisible audience. Basically, we've all 662 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 1: kind of probably felt that the invisible audience is this 663 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: kind of adolescent ideal, but everybody is paying attention to 664 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: you and like scrutinizing your behavior at all times. Now, 665 00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 1: most of us probably felt that way at one time 666 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: or another in our lives, but we usually grow out 667 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: of it as we mature and become more self aware 668 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,439 Speaker 1: and get a deeper sense of self. Lindsay Hooley says 669 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: that kids who are always being filmed for content might 670 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: have a harder time breaking out of that mindset because 671 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,680 Speaker 1: they essentially grew up on a stage. They grew up 672 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: knowing that they had to perform and turn it on. 673 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 1: And so if that is your everyday lived experience, you 674 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 1: might have a much harder time growing out of that 675 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: phase when you think that everybody's looking at you, when 676 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,360 Speaker 1: you are feeling like everybody is scrutinizing you and feeling 677 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,760 Speaker 1: like you're being perceived with eyes on you all the time. 678 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: And really I can kind of understand that, Like I 679 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: can understand why four kids who who are constantly on 680 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: the stage of the internet, why that would then be 681 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:46,520 Speaker 1: a hard thing to kind of break out of. Yeah, 682 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: and that's another issue here is the issue of privacy. 683 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,080 Speaker 1: And as we also mentioned at the top, these parasocial 684 00:37:54,120 --> 00:38:00,720 Speaker 1: relationships that people can form with children who again probably 685 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,840 Speaker 1: never consented to any of this, right, Yeah, that's something 686 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: that I find really interesting, I guess I'll say, is 687 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,439 Speaker 1: this the way that adults on the internet can form 688 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,839 Speaker 1: these parasocial relationships with kids they don't even know, you know, 689 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,759 Speaker 1: And I the one ahead, I kind of get it, right, 690 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: Like they've been let in on these very intimate relationships 691 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,799 Speaker 1: with these kids, and so I can understand forming a bond, right, 692 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: and how that line of what is it is not 693 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: appropriate and what you are and are not entitled to 694 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,240 Speaker 1: can become blurred. There was this mom influencer on TikTok 695 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: recently who decided that she was going to stop showing 696 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: her kids on social media after sort of providing quite 697 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: a bit of content solely about her kids, and her 698 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,600 Speaker 1: followers were upset, but they weren't just like they weren't 699 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,080 Speaker 1: like cool, as your kids do what you feel as best. 700 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,720 Speaker 1: They were not happy about that, and they felt really 701 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: entitled to see and interact with these kids they don't 702 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: even know, right, And so I remember this was around 703 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: Christmas time when this influencer announced that and one of 704 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,960 Speaker 1: her followers made a video that was like can we 705 00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: at least see the children for Christmas? Like I just 706 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: want to see them for Christmas? And how they could 707 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,040 Speaker 1: not accept that they were not going to be able 708 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: to see and interact with kids that they didn't know. 709 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: And it might I don't feel like all of these 710 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: people have bad intentions or anything, but it is absolutely 711 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: not healthy for an adult stranger to feel entitled to 712 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: see kids that they don't even know, Like that's just 713 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: not healthy, you know. Of course I have to go 714 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: real dark with it as you're being very kind and 715 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: be like these are not they just really like these 716 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,400 Speaker 1: kids and they think the relationship is adorable. But here's 717 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: the prime example of where we can talk about grooming 718 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: and what happens when these relationships over these young kids 719 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: become sexualized by the audience or by the followers and 720 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,279 Speaker 1: not necessarily being done by the parents. That they may 721 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,839 Speaker 1: be completely innocent of it, thinking that they're playing cute 722 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,319 Speaker 1: little dress up matching mommy type of look, which is 723 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 1: often a thing, but this becomes a real dangerous road 724 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: of grooming and a sexualization of young children. Just I 725 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:14,840 Speaker 1: know there was one specific woman who went through a 726 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:18,719 Speaker 1: young girl's accounts meaning they were probably really young, maybe 727 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,239 Speaker 1: with a parent, showing what kind of followers these accounts had, 728 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: and they were typically form more examples like Middle Asian 729 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: men commenting about how beautiful they are and how all 730 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 1: these things are, like how good they looked in this 731 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: outfit or all these things, and how concerning it is 732 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 1: that the parents aren't realizing that compliment is not cute. 733 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: It's not a cute compliment and you shouldn't sit there 734 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,960 Speaker 1: and like them and say thanks for supporting my child, 735 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,960 Speaker 1: which has been the response. And it is so dangerous 736 00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,839 Speaker 1: when you see that this is becoming normal exactly. So 737 00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:52,680 Speaker 1: I do think that there are people out there that 738 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,600 Speaker 1: are just like, oh, I just love this baby, and 739 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,240 Speaker 1: I have slipped into an unhealthy fixation on this baby. 740 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 1: Perhaps not badly intentioned, yes, but you are so right 741 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,799 Speaker 1: that that that there are people for whom they do 742 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: have bad intentions. And it is about sexualization and greaming 743 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,279 Speaker 1: and it's gross, like it like what I'm what I 744 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 1: want to talk about today is like just the tip 745 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: of the iceberg with how dangerous and gross this stuff 746 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,880 Speaker 1: can get, because truly it's just like very dark. Um, 747 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,240 Speaker 1: there is a trend called role playing. No, not dungeons 748 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,640 Speaker 1: and Dragons, role playing like that. Uh, this is what 749 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:36,120 Speaker 1: people Annie and I met. You were like, oh, so 750 00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: this is a This is the trend that I actually 751 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: have not heard of until I researched for this episode, 752 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:43,319 Speaker 1: where people on the internet will steal photos of other 753 00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:47,000 Speaker 1: people from social media and make new fake accounts of 754 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,919 Speaker 1: these people with like made up stories and identities. Now, 755 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: sometimes this can be like mostly harmless other than the 756 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: fact that like it's not cool to be taking pictures 757 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: of kids from the internet, but like some people are doing, 758 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: it's just it's not it's not necessarily harmful. But in 759 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: other cases, some of the backstories and like fictional situations 760 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,719 Speaker 1: involving the identity of children and the pictures that they 761 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,160 Speaker 1: are using are sexual and so there's this influencer Katie 762 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 1: Rose Pritchard. She told Good Morning America that one day 763 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 1: that she discovered all these social media accounts made for 764 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: each one of her kids, but they were actually strangers 765 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:29,680 Speaker 1: pretending to be her, like very young toddler children typing 766 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,040 Speaker 1: in like baby voice in camptions on Instagram. She told 767 00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,920 Speaker 1: Good morn America that she noticed that among these role 768 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,439 Speaker 1: playing posts on social media, they used hashtags like kid 769 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,600 Speaker 1: RP or baby RP to indicate that's what it is, 770 00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: and that there's like a massive community of people doing this, 771 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: some of whom are describing obviously sexualized fictional situations involving 772 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:58,399 Speaker 1: her toddlers, and probably unsurprising, she was enraged and horrified, 773 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,280 Speaker 1: and I think, you know, there's so many different avenues 774 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: to this, but one is that it's obviously a social 775 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: media platform accountability issue. Katie Rose Pictchard said that she 776 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: reached out to Instagram to have this content taken down, 777 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,240 Speaker 1: and then at first Instagram told her that people making 778 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,000 Speaker 1: fake account of her kids and putting them in these 779 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: sexual fictional situations was not against their community guidelines, but 780 00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 1: eventually she kept having her followers report the content and 781 00:43:25,480 --> 00:43:28,360 Speaker 1: Instagram did eventually take it down. So she decided that 782 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: she was going to stop posting pictures of her kids 783 00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,360 Speaker 1: on social media, even though she was an influencer and 784 00:43:34,360 --> 00:43:37,600 Speaker 1: this had resulted in brand deals and partnerships and all 785 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: of that, but that it just wasn't worth it because 786 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,640 Speaker 1: she was like, even though Instagram eventually did the right 787 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,040 Speaker 1: thing and took these pictures of my kids down, who 788 00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: knows where they could be. She was like, I'll never 789 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 1: know how far their pictures traveled, what dark corners of 790 00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,880 Speaker 1: the Internet her kids' images are on, and that is 791 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,440 Speaker 1: really scary. Yeah, And you know, just to add a 792 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: wrench in this whole thing is with the ideas of 793 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: deep fakes and AI technology, which takes straight from content 794 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,879 Speaker 1: from the Internet, there are so many disturbing things that's 795 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: out there. Just knowing half of that and that being 796 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:15,040 Speaker 1: faked and what it's being used for. And again there's 797 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:19,040 Speaker 1: no loss to truly stop this. This is kind of 798 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: like the freedom of speech. As long as you're not 799 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,520 Speaker 1: violating that child and you're doing images that resemble and 800 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: say this is not truly then all you have to 801 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: do is alter something. And it can't They can escape 802 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:32,919 Speaker 1: the log because there is no law for it. And 803 00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: with the realization that once you put it on the Internet, 804 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: there's no ownership, true ownership, as much as you would 805 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: like to think there is, there's no true ownership to 806 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,479 Speaker 1: the content that you are posting. Yeah, to your point 807 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: about deep fakes, mom Uncharted on her TikTok has talked 808 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: about again, it's so dark that I hate to even 809 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: go there, but like there are marketplaces for deep fakes. 810 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: People have been like, here's an image of a person, 811 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 1: not always an adult, sometimes it's a child. I would 812 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,120 Speaker 1: like to see digitally manipulated, like AI generated images of 813 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: this child in sexual situations. That is a thing that happens. 814 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,920 Speaker 1: And I know that it is dark, and it's like, 815 00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,680 Speaker 1: on the one hand, you feel awful when someone's like 816 00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,800 Speaker 1: posting up cute picture of their kid being I'm like, well, 817 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:21,400 Speaker 1: did you know that this could out wind up on 818 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: a marketplace On the dark side of the Internet, but 819 00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,480 Speaker 1: I have to say the truth. It's like, it's like, 820 00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,399 Speaker 1: what is happening? And I think it's a reason why 821 00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:35,200 Speaker 1: more and more influencers are and people in general are 822 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: keeping their kids off of the Internet. Like I don't 823 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:39,160 Speaker 1: have kids, but if I was a parent, I don't 824 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,400 Speaker 1: think I would put my kids on social media. I 825 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: just I think that with all that I now know, 826 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:47,120 Speaker 1: and I didn't always know this, I know this from 827 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: research from now that I know all the different, really 828 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,680 Speaker 1: dark up, gross corners of the Internet out there, I 829 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: just feel like it would be a safer bet to not, Like, 830 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: I don't know what it would give me to introduce 831 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,440 Speaker 1: that into my kid's life. And this, you know, this 832 00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: is a growing thing these days. The influencer that I 833 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: was just talking about, she wrote on Instagram. I can 834 00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,799 Speaker 1: be angry at Instagram all day long and nothing will 835 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,759 Speaker 1: change until we change. Instagram is not to blame for 836 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,680 Speaker 1: the exploitation of my children. I am. They have no 837 00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,240 Speaker 1: responsibility and usually come back with we have no control 838 00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,719 Speaker 1: over what our users posts. They simply do not care. 839 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:34,279 Speaker 1: And it's I think that Instagram is really abdigating responsibility here. 840 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,720 Speaker 1: But on the other hand, Katie is not wrong about 841 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: this that like it really, if platforms aren't going to 842 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,960 Speaker 1: do anything to keep young people safe online, they should 843 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,560 Speaker 1: an absence of them being leaders and doing what they're 844 00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,239 Speaker 1: supposed to be doing to keep kids safe, we have 845 00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: no choice but to act. And I know that that 846 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:55,359 Speaker 1: is like, it should not be that way, But if 847 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,920 Speaker 1: platforms are going to allow the kind of dark stuff 848 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,000 Speaker 1: involving kids that they do allow, we have to be 849 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: the ones who are making good decisions to keep our 850 00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 1: kids safe. Right Well, obviously, as you said at the 851 00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:11,319 Speaker 1: very beginning, as a parent, your first responsibility is the 852 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,400 Speaker 1: safety of your child. It should be, and that's that's 853 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,640 Speaker 1: kind of the intent to begin with. And so even 854 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:20,359 Speaker 1: though yes, you may not be doing any of these 855 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 1: dark and despicable things you're like, I've I keep talking 856 00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:27,839 Speaker 1: about it, but like I have had nightmares of the 857 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: darkness that happens to children, unfortunately, because of the things 858 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,600 Speaker 1: that I have witnessed personally, Like, that's just a thing 859 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,600 Speaker 1: that will always be ingrained in my head. It is 860 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,479 Speaker 1: terrifying as awful, and I hate that that's a part 861 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,399 Speaker 1: of my psyche and that that's part of the thing 862 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 1: that I share with people, But it is really naive 863 00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:52,480 Speaker 1: to believe that everything is sunshine and puppy dogs, because 864 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: I would love that, that would be amazing. That's why 865 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 1: I can't watch dark things because I don't want to 866 00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: live in that world. But I've seen it, and you know, 867 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,920 Speaker 1: as you've researched more things, it gets uglier and uglier. 868 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:08,120 Speaker 1: And as Instagram should be held responsible for some things, 869 00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:11,719 Speaker 1: it is also again the parents' responsibility at the very 870 00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:17,280 Speaker 1: jump for to protect a child, and unlike it sounds 871 00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,680 Speaker 1: like this one influencer did an amazing job in trying 872 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:23,480 Speaker 1: to backtrack because you don't think about that. It's an 873 00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: amazing it's a great thing to not have to think 874 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,440 Speaker 1: about that, but then when your face with it, to 875 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,560 Speaker 1: realize you need to do some damage control. But there's 876 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: those out there who as long as they get the money, 877 00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,319 Speaker 1: as dark as that seems, it doesn't seem to care, 878 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 1: and there's no law to protect the children, it seems exactly. 879 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: So this is something that really bombs me out, grosses 880 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,920 Speaker 1: me out because you might be thinking, like, surely parents 881 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,840 Speaker 1: are not knowingly making money off of their kids content 882 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: being served up to adult creeps. But I'm sorry to 883 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: report that that is what is happening with some of 884 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:57,040 Speaker 1: these like mom run accounts. Sarah of Mom and Charge 885 00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,360 Speaker 1: told me that she sees these mom run accounts of 886 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:03,840 Speaker 1: young girls a sensibly a platform to share their daughters 887 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 1: like modeling pictures or like gymnastics pictures. But when you 888 00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: click in, as you were saying, the people who are 889 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,919 Speaker 1: following that page are grown men. The people who are 890 00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: saving the images. So if you post something on TikTok 891 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,480 Speaker 1: or post something on Instagram so you can see who 892 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,200 Speaker 1: saves it, the people saving that are grown men. And 893 00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,520 Speaker 1: when you click into these profiles of the people following, 894 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,319 Speaker 1: oftentimes it's like not it doesn't take you know, a 895 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,840 Speaker 1: detective to see like, okay, this is an image of 896 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,719 Speaker 1: a grown man. Who are they following accounts like hot 897 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:38,280 Speaker 1: young bikini girls things like that, Like it's pretty clear 898 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: what's going on. And then these men will leave comments 899 00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: on pictures of their kids that are like wow, what 900 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: a hot picture, and mom will go in and like 901 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,399 Speaker 1: that comment, right, And so it's sort of this weird 902 00:49:49,440 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 1: thing where it's done under this kind of like plausible 903 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,520 Speaker 1: deniability of like, oh, it's just a modeling page, like 904 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,560 Speaker 1: you're the one sexualizing my kid. But come on, like, 905 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,400 Speaker 1: you you know what this is is. I've even seen 906 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,720 Speaker 1: some of these accounts go so far as to sell 907 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,280 Speaker 1: images of like you want to buy a photo set 908 00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:12,960 Speaker 1: of my daughter's gymnastic pictures or even buy their used clothing, 909 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,560 Speaker 1: like we know, like we all see what's happening. They 910 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,799 Speaker 1: can they can hide behind this is a modeling thing, 911 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:23,120 Speaker 1: you know, this is you know whatever, It's clear what's 912 00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,520 Speaker 1: going on. You are making money from exploiting your kid, 913 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,480 Speaker 1: and that is just what's happening. I think, at the 914 00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,879 Speaker 1: very least, let's just call it what it is. Don't 915 00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:35,800 Speaker 1: dance around it, don't use this this plausible deniability. Everyone 916 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:51,480 Speaker 1: knows what's going on. Cut the crap. You know. We 917 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,719 Speaker 1: recently did an episode on YouTube and this is a 918 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: very similar situation happening where there are videos of young kids, 919 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,800 Speaker 1: mostly young girls, and getting several comments like this from 920 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: grown men. And as we've been alluding to this whole time, 921 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: there aren't specific laws in place to protect kids from this. Correct, 922 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: that's right, And so when you think about it, it's 923 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,759 Speaker 1: kind of weird that there's not right, Like when it 924 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 1: comes to kids making money off of their labor we 925 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,360 Speaker 1: have all kinds of rules and policies and regulations in 926 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:31,080 Speaker 1: place here in the United States. You know, media companies 927 00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,560 Speaker 1: that work with kids for like films or commercials or 928 00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,880 Speaker 1: modeling or whatever, they have very strict labor laws like 929 00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 1: I used to do, like child modeling and child acting 930 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,040 Speaker 1: when I was a kid. Like they have very very 931 00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:48,080 Speaker 1: specific labor laws. But the Fair Labor Standards Act, a 932 00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,759 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight law that addresses excessive child labor, and 933 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,719 Speaker 1: the California Coogan Act, which protects child actors. Neither of 934 00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: those have been updated to include children online, like the 935 00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:03,000 Speaker 1: children of influencers, children who are being used as content. 936 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,600 Speaker 1: And so it is definitely a situation where our technology 937 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,800 Speaker 1: has advanced quicker than our laws have because they're currently 938 00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,279 Speaker 1: zero laws that in the United States that regulate how 939 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,600 Speaker 1: children work on social media and how they can appear 940 00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,960 Speaker 1: in ads on social media that generate money, but that 941 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:22,520 Speaker 1: actually might be changing soon. Morgan Sung reported that an 942 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:26,040 Speaker 1: eighteen year old college student named Chris McCarty wanted to 943 00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:29,279 Speaker 1: advocate for kids rights to privacy after learning about that 944 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: influencer Mica Stelfer, the one who you might recall we 945 00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,560 Speaker 1: were just talking about she wanted to adopt a special 946 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:40,759 Speaker 1: needs child. She did adopt that child, extensively shared intimate 947 00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:44,920 Speaker 1: content about the health needs of her adopted child before 948 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,399 Speaker 1: deciding that those medical needs were too much and having 949 00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:51,400 Speaker 1: him quote rehomed. As she put it, well, that inspired 950 00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,840 Speaker 1: Chris McCarty to start advocating for the way that kids 951 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,719 Speaker 1: are used online and like advocating for protections for these kids, 952 00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:02,280 Speaker 1: McCarty started to say quit Clicking Kids, which is described 953 00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,160 Speaker 1: as an advocacy and education site to combat the monetization 954 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:07,880 Speaker 1: of children on social media, and when Chris was a senior, 955 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,200 Speaker 1: they could emailed like a bunch of lawmakers and eventually 956 00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:14,560 Speaker 1: ended up working with Representative Emily Wis to craft HB 957 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: sixteen twenty seven, which is a bill that would protect 958 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,200 Speaker 1: quote the interests of minor children featured on for profit 959 00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,840 Speaker 1: family laws by requiring the parents of kid influencers to 960 00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,959 Speaker 1: set aside part of that revenue from their content into 961 00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 1: a separate fund so that their kids could access them 962 00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:32,719 Speaker 1: into adulthood. And it would also grant the children of 963 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,920 Speaker 1: influencers the right to request the permanent deletion of their likenesses, names, 964 00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,920 Speaker 1: or photos from any Internet platform or network. That provided 965 00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:44,120 Speaker 1: compensation to the individual's parent or parents in exchange for 966 00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:48,800 Speaker 1: that content, and so platforms under this new legislation, platforms 967 00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,920 Speaker 1: would have to take reasonable steps to permanently delete video 968 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,640 Speaker 1: segments of such children. That was one of the things 969 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: that like in researching for this episode and reading the 970 00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:02,719 Speaker 1: accounts of young people who were the used solely, like 971 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,319 Speaker 1: they were the sole focus of their parents content. One 972 00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:07,880 Speaker 1: of the things that they say is I can't delete 973 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:09,640 Speaker 1: it from me. I had no choice in the matter. 974 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,040 Speaker 1: I was not able to consent. And now when you 975 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,560 Speaker 1: google my name, all this stuff, intimate stuff comes up 976 00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,960 Speaker 1: about me, intimate stuff about my health, my body, my life, 977 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:21,680 Speaker 1: all comes up, and there is no way to remove it. 978 00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,799 Speaker 1: And so I don't know how this legislation will shake out. 979 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,520 Speaker 1: I'll keep you posted, but I do think it's it's 980 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:32,200 Speaker 1: time that we really had our laws and our norms 981 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:35,200 Speaker 1: catch up with where we are technologically. And I think, 982 00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 1: you know, I think I think it's time. You would 983 00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,520 Speaker 1: think that we would have learned through the child actors stuff, 984 00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:46,000 Speaker 1: all the young actresses that had either the money stolen 985 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:48,000 Speaker 1: or gone through so much abuse, all those things that 986 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,960 Speaker 1: you would you would have thought, yeah, we would learn 987 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:54,919 Speaker 1: from those mistakes because some of these young kids making 988 00:54:55,160 --> 00:54:57,640 Speaker 1: multimillions of dollars, so that you would think that with 989 00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:00,400 Speaker 1: that kind of revenue, which is which is rare, but 990 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,319 Speaker 1: those are the ones who arguing the money, are the 991 00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:05,440 Speaker 1: younger kids at this point in time, that we would 992 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:10,359 Speaker 1: actually found a way by now that would protect these 993 00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,759 Speaker 1: kids because inevitably they're the ones who kind of bring 994 00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:17,360 Speaker 1: it to bring it to as it is, like we're not. 995 00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: It's not the older people who are creating these new 996 00:55:19,640 --> 00:55:23,919 Speaker 1: things and new new trends and new ways of communicating, 997 00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,920 Speaker 1: as the younger kids who are doing this and learning 998 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,399 Speaker 1: how to do it better and or being used for it, 999 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,960 Speaker 1: like it's one of those things they like it should 1000 00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,240 Speaker 1: be for them, So why wouldn't it are automatically protect 1001 00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:40,280 Speaker 1: them Exactly? Like I love cute kids on the internet 1002 00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:42,840 Speaker 1: as much as anybody else in a healthy way, but 1003 00:55:42,960 --> 00:55:44,760 Speaker 1: like corn Kid, I don't know if you guys remember 1004 00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,880 Speaker 1: corn Kid. He was just like adorable little kid who 1005 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:49,880 Speaker 1: was interviewed at a state bear eating corn and who 1006 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:53,000 Speaker 1: was like when I had it with butter, everything changed 1007 00:55:53,040 --> 00:55:55,440 Speaker 1: and he was like an overnight sensation. And I remember 1008 00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:57,400 Speaker 1: thinking like, oh, what happened to Corn Kid? How is 1009 00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:01,360 Speaker 1: he doing? And Corn Kid is quote retired, And I 1010 00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:05,520 Speaker 1: just loved that, you know, somebody in his life was like, hey, 1011 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:10,120 Speaker 1: this you we've had this overnight unexpected viral fame, but 1012 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:12,719 Speaker 1: you can retire. You know, this doesn't have to be 1013 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,920 Speaker 1: something that you, you know, do, This doesn't have to 1014 00:56:15,960 --> 00:56:17,160 Speaker 1: be something I think I think I did say that 1015 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,239 Speaker 1: he was on cameo, But this doesn't have to be 1016 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:23,480 Speaker 1: something that you you know, make your entire identity and 1017 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:25,520 Speaker 1: you're just a kid, you don't you don't have to, 1018 00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, decide to go into internet social media stardom, 1019 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:33,520 Speaker 1: entertaining strangers because you had this one viral moment. And 1020 00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: so I really really hardened me to see that somebody 1021 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:39,080 Speaker 1: in his life gave him the space and the language 1022 00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,439 Speaker 1: of being like, oh yeah, I'm retired as corn Kid 1023 00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,160 Speaker 1: to make a choice for himself and protect his protect 1024 00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,600 Speaker 1: his identity a little bit, protect protect his peace, because 1025 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,680 Speaker 1: I do think, like, yeah, the Internet is forever, and 1026 00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:56,319 Speaker 1: I really feel for these kids who don't get a 1027 00:56:56,440 --> 00:57:02,799 Speaker 1: choice in becoming these Internet stars and have to live 1028 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,920 Speaker 1: with it for life. And I think, you know, I 1029 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 1: do think the tide is turning a little bit. I 1030 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,160 Speaker 1: think that we're seeing more and more one more and 1031 00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 1: more children who were used in this way as content 1032 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,359 Speaker 1: speaking up about what that experience was like for them. 1033 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,360 Speaker 1: And I think we're seeing more and more influencers stop 1034 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,840 Speaker 1: showing their kids on social media or do so in 1035 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:22,760 Speaker 1: ways that are a little bit more thoughtful. Right, So 1036 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,760 Speaker 1: you'll see influencers not showing their kids face or including 1037 00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,080 Speaker 1: their kids and their content, but just showing their hands 1038 00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,200 Speaker 1: the back of their head, so that it's not just 1039 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:38,240 Speaker 1: you know, performing on command for the entertainment and monetization 1040 00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:42,040 Speaker 1: of your platform. Right. And you know, I think it 1041 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:45,320 Speaker 1: cut people took a page out of those big celebrities 1042 00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,920 Speaker 1: who realize who lived in the limelight. We're like, we're 1043 00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,720 Speaker 1: not putting our children through that, and go through everything 1044 00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:54,600 Speaker 1: to try to cover at least like protect their identities. 1045 00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,960 Speaker 1: And I've done so much better recently. I mean not some, 1046 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: but you know, and then they're learning this is could 1047 00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,280 Speaker 1: be really damaging, like you said, and that corn kid 1048 00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:06,240 Speaker 1: so cute. He literally I think they asked him much 1049 00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 1: later after everything went viral, like what are your friends 1050 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:10,680 Speaker 1: think of that? And they're like, my friends don't know. 1051 00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: They don't know anything about this because the parents did 1052 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,640 Speaker 1: such a great job in keeping him isolated away from 1053 00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:18,920 Speaker 1: all of that because they didn't want him to be scrutinized, 1054 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,200 Speaker 1: made fun of or any of that. Because so many 1055 00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:22,800 Speaker 1: of them because he kind of I guess is it 1056 00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:26,640 Speaker 1: a mame was the amazing gifts? Maybe eventually became that 1057 00:58:26,640 --> 00:58:29,440 Speaker 1: that so many of those goods who were gifts or 1058 00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:33,960 Speaker 1: memes were really humiliated as adults. Yeah, Like I think 1059 00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:38,440 Speaker 1: it was BuzzFeed doing a series of what happened after 1060 00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:41,240 Speaker 1: these people became memes. They actually have a really good one. 1061 00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,760 Speaker 1: If you remember the girl this is gonna maybe date me, 1062 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,480 Speaker 1: and people who are younger gonna be like, what are 1063 00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,800 Speaker 1: you talking about? The girl who was photographed with pigtails 1064 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:53,120 Speaker 1: and in a headgear holding goosebumps books if you if 1065 00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:57,160 Speaker 1: she is a very her story is very fascinating. But yeah, 1066 00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,840 Speaker 1: it's like these these people that we see on the internet, 1067 00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,360 Speaker 1: and because we're engaging with them through a screen, we 1068 00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,600 Speaker 1: can kind of forget that they're real people who have 1069 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:07,959 Speaker 1: to go on to live real lives in the real world, 1070 00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,160 Speaker 1: or they don't just exist frozen in time. In this 1071 00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:21,680 Speaker 1: meme where we first encountered them. They are real people. Yeah, her, Well, 1072 00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:25,160 Speaker 1: as always, this has been so informative, Bridget. Thanks for 1073 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,400 Speaker 1: bringing it to our attention. Thanks for making the time 1074 00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,040 Speaker 1: to come on. And I'm sure we'll update on this 1075 00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,480 Speaker 1: one because clearly we all have a lot of thoughts 1076 00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:36,600 Speaker 1: about this, so we would love to come back to 1077 00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:40,840 Speaker 1: this one. Well, where can the good listeners find you? Well, 1078 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,360 Speaker 1: you can find me over at my own podcast. There 1079 00:59:43,360 --> 00:59:45,120 Speaker 1: are no girls on the internet. The episode that we 1080 00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:47,919 Speaker 1: did with Mom uncharted super interesting. She's just a really 1081 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:50,400 Speaker 1: interesting person. I would definitely recommend checking it out. Can 1082 00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,680 Speaker 1: follow me on Twitter at Bridget Marie, on Instagram at 1083 00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,919 Speaker 1: Bridget Marie in DC, or on TikTok at bridget Mixed Podcasts. Yes, 1084 00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:02,240 Speaker 1: love it, love go check all of those things out 1085 01:00:02,240 --> 01:00:06,440 Speaker 1: if you haven't already, listeners, and yes, thank you again, Bridget. 1086 01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Can't wait to do this again next month. Update on 1087 01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:11,680 Speaker 1: the food as well. Yeah, maybe we'll do it from 1088 01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Mexico City, but you all come visit. Oh, I would 1089 01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:20,560 Speaker 1: love it. I just heard an invitation. I'm coming. The 1090 01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:26,720 Speaker 1: bags are getting backed, the bags are getting hearted in Mexico. Oh, 1091 01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:29,200 Speaker 1: I can't wait. Well, listeners, if you would like to 1092 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 1: contact us that you can our emails, Stuff Mediami, Stuff 1093 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:34,560 Speaker 1: at ihartmedia dot com. You can find us on Twitter 1094 01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,560 Speaker 1: at Moms of Podcast or Instagram and TikTok at stuff 1095 01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,680 Speaker 1: on Ever Told You. Thanks as always to our superproducer 1096 01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:44,000 Speaker 1: Christina the best, the best, and thanks to you for 1097 01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,160 Speaker 1: listening stuff one Ever Told You subjection I Heart Radio. 1098 01:00:46,200 --> 01:00:47,720 Speaker 1: For more podcast in my Heart Radio, you can check 1099 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:49,840 Speaker 1: out the Radio ap Apple Podcast wherever you listen to 1100 01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:50,600 Speaker 1: your favorite shows