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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,

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Speaker 3: and course creator. We are two working parents who love

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Speaker 3: our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

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Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.

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Speaker 1: Term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura.

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Speaker 2: This episode is airing in sort of early mid November

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Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four. Sarah is going to be interviewing

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Speaker 2: Gabrielle Blair, who many people know from Design Mom if

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Speaker 2: you've read that blog over a great many years. She

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Speaker 2: is also the author of a new book called The

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Speaker 2: Kids Are All Right about how should we should stress

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Speaker 2: less over how our kids are doing? Which is music

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Speaker 2: to my ears for sure. Sarah, what do you hope

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Speaker 2: that people would stress less about their children?

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Speaker 3: I mean, I think school is probably the biggest thing,

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Speaker 3: and I mean she does talk about a lot, and

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Speaker 3: I really really appreciated the idea that success doesn't have

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Speaker 3: to look like one specific thing, because I mean I

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Speaker 3: hear elementary school parents talking about well, this high school

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Speaker 3: for this college and this whatever, and it's just like,

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Speaker 3: oh my gosh, like yes, but also, can we like

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Speaker 3: not worry about it so much and just kind of

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Speaker 3: let whatever happens happens to some extent, And obviously that's

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Speaker 3: that's hard. It's hard to do, but I guess I

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Speaker 3: just wish there was already less talking about it and pressure.

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Speaker 3: But specifically, I wish people would stress less about projects

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Speaker 3: for their elementary school children because I have taken the

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Speaker 3: attitude that like it's for them to do, maybe with

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Speaker 3: a little bit of like prodding to actually do it,

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Speaker 3: but that like my involvement in designing said project or

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Speaker 3: helping carry out said projects should be none to very little. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And yet what I see being turned in and talked

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Speaker 3: about and shown even on the big What's Up chats

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Speaker 3: does not at all look like that's everybody's point of

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Speaker 3: view or attitude, And then that just makes it hard

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Speaker 3: for the kids that are trying to do things independently.

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Speaker 3: So I just wish school would be even explicit to

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Speaker 3: be like projects are for the kids, They are not

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Speaker 3: a family activity to take up all of your Sunday.

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Speaker 3: They are for the kid to learn to put together

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Speaker 3: a timeline and figure out how to do stuff. And

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Speaker 3: if said kid is maybe in first grade and not

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Speaker 3: capable of doing that, maybe they don't need to be

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Speaker 3: doing a project.

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Speaker 2: Maybe there's an idea. Yeah I am, it's like you

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Speaker 2: already did fifth grade. Like this is not a judgment

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Speaker 2: of you, Like, yes, you can do a fifth grade project,

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Speaker 2: which you should because you were in fifth grade thirty

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Speaker 2: years ago. Like let's just take that out of the equation, right,

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Speaker 2: Like so yeah, I don't know. I mean, college is

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Speaker 2: obviously the college application process is something people stress a

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Speaker 2: lot about. And I've mentioned this on my blog that

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Speaker 2: we wanted to kind of lower the stress level of

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Speaker 2: that a little bit in our family. And one thing

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Speaker 2: we did is that Jasper was very diligent about getting

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Speaker 2: an application into one of our major state universities that

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Speaker 2: has rolling admission, and so he got that in in

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Speaker 2: mid September and thus got his acceptance approximately a week later.

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Speaker 2: And so he has that, like he has an admitted

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Speaker 2: student there, he can apply anywhere else he wants to.

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Speaker 1: Like that's his business.

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Speaker 2: He's deciding what to do, but we have that, and

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Speaker 2: so it just like lowers the stress of senior year

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Speaker 2: a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's not like, oh am I going to get into college.

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Speaker 2: I won't know until April, Like he knows now that

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Speaker 2: he has a good option. So I'm like, that was

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Speaker 2: intentional and I'm very glad he did that, But it

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Speaker 2: is good for everyone to have less stress around here. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I like the phrase on a parenting list serve I

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Speaker 2: was on for a while. People will use the phrase

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Speaker 2: all the time, this too shall pass, which is so

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Speaker 2: true because whatever you are dealing with in the moment

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Speaker 2: maybe incredibly intense, Like I don't want to say that

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Speaker 2: it's not worth feeling stressed about, like that it's not

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Speaker 2: a really big thing at the time, because it probably is.

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Speaker 2: But something else is going to be a problem in

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Speaker 2: six to twelve months, and that thing won't be a problem.

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Speaker 2: And so I think having that mindset is helpful for

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Speaker 2: a lot of this, and that people are who they are,

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Speaker 2: Your kids are who they are, You are, not who

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Speaker 2: you are solely because of random choices your parents made

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Speaker 2: about what they put in your lunch, I mean, or

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Speaker 2: whether they did your fifth grade project for you.

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Speaker 3: I think the fact that both Laura and Gabrielle, who

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Speaker 3: have a lot of kids, both of them saying like

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Speaker 3: we should all listen, like, because I just think the

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Speaker 3: more kids you have, the more you are going to

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Speaker 3: embrace the fact that like you're doing the same thing

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Speaker 3: for each of them are roughly the same, Like their

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Speaker 3: environment is not that different, and they turn out so

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Speaker 3: wildly different that you have to recognize that some of

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Speaker 3: this is just not it's not up to us.

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Speaker 2: Not up to us No, well, which is good, Like

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Speaker 2: you don't get too much of the blame, but you

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Speaker 2: don't get too much of the credit either, so I

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Speaker 2: can kind of have to accept that as it is.

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Speaker 1: All right.

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Speaker 2: Well, let's hear what Gabrielle Blair has to say about

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Speaker 2: the kids being all Right.

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Speaker 3: Well, I am so excited to be here today with

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Speaker 3: Gabrielle Blair, a total bro. She has been flogging at

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Speaker 3: the Design Mom's Face for eight three years now and

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Speaker 3: is the author of now three books. The latest Kids

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Speaker 3: are all Right is what we're going to talk about today,

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Speaker 3: and I'm just so excited to this conversation. Welcome Gabrielle.

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Speaker 4: I'm so glad to be here. I really appreciate the invitation.

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Speaker 4: Thank you awesome.

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Speaker 3: So I really enjoyed your book, and I think that

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Speaker 3: our listeners will as well. And I had to laugh

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Speaker 3: because it kind of opens up with we did not

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Speaker 3: want to write a parent because with your hot I'm

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Speaker 3: interested in hearing more about that as well. Yeah, did

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Speaker 3: you not want to write a parenting book?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, I've been talking about parenting online for

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Speaker 4: eighteen years now, right, so it's not like a new

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Speaker 4: topic to me. But one thing I've learned in those

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Speaker 4: eighteen years, and something that I'm sure you know well,

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Speaker 4: is that parenting is a really fraught topic and it's

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Speaker 4: so personal and feels so high stakes because we're talking

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Speaker 4: about an actual human being that we're raising, right Like,

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Speaker 4: It's like no one wants to mess up their kids,

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Speaker 4: so it feels like so high stakes. And to try

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Speaker 4: and offer advice to someone when I don't really know

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Speaker 4: their situation, right, I don't know their child, I don't

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Speaker 4: know their spouse or partner or non partner status. I

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Speaker 4: don't know their job or financial situation. I just don't

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Speaker 4: know anything. So I'm of like offering up advice or

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Speaker 4: some kind of guidance. It just feels like there's so

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Speaker 4: much risk that I'm going to do as much harm

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Speaker 4: as good, or maybe more harm than good. So I

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Speaker 4: was really resistant to this project for a long time.

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Speaker 4: We've been asked for a parenting book. For over a decade.

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Speaker 4: People have been asking us to write a parenting book,

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Speaker 4: and I was just really, really resistant. And that was

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Speaker 4: just one of the reasons. But like, it's just such

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Speaker 4: a fraught thing that, you know, my last book, which

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Speaker 4: seems like those would be way more sensitive topics, but

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Speaker 4: I actually feel much more vulnerable about this book than

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Speaker 4: my last one. And partly also because it's very personal.

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Speaker 4: You're talking about your family, It's a very personal thing.

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Speaker 3: So what made you decide that it was time for

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Speaker 3: this book and remind listeners of your perspective? And I

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Speaker 3: forget the exact number of kids you have, but you

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Speaker 3: have been at this for a while, and my guess

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Speaker 3: is you felt like something was missing from the parenting

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Speaker 3: sphere that I feel like this book emphasizes so.

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Speaker 4: Right, So what was happening is so I'm a mother

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Speaker 4: of six. We have six kids. Our oldest is twenty seven,

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Speaker 4: our youngest is fourteen, and we have been parenting in

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Speaker 4: public for most of those years, right, And what I've

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Speaker 4: noticed and what we were writing this book in response to,

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Speaker 4: is really parental stress. Parents are so stressed out right now.

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Speaker 4: They're so anxious, and in fact, I've watched them become

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Speaker 4: more and more anxious, just as i've you know, over

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Speaker 4: these years that I've been online. I think as a culture,

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Speaker 4: we're making parenting harder and harder and harder, you know,

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Speaker 4: like more and more difficult with every passing year. And

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Speaker 4: I had more kids than most of my peers, and

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Speaker 4: I had them earlier the most of my peers. So

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Speaker 4: I've been someone that people could come to for guidance

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Speaker 4: just because I had like more years under my belt, right,

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Speaker 4: you know, more parenting years. And I feel like I

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Speaker 4: can say with confidence to parents right now that like

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Speaker 4: it's going to be okay, and I can tell them

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Speaker 4: why it's going to be okay, that I'm not just

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Speaker 4: like trying to give them platitudes that I'm really going

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Speaker 4: to say here, let me explain where the stress is

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Speaker 4: coming from. Let me try and show you how we

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Speaker 4: kind of bypassed a lot of that stress whenever we could,

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Speaker 4: and that you can too, and that so much of

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Speaker 4: this is just totally manufactured by our society and is

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Speaker 4: not real so much of what we're stressing about. So

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Speaker 4: if I could do one thing with this book, it

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Speaker 4: would be relieve the parental stress, you know, help parents

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Speaker 4: enjoy this situation more than just be stressed out about it.

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Speaker 3: Which is so interesting because I feel like so many

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Speaker 3: parenting books that I have read are the opposite. They're like,

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Speaker 3: here's how you can do this better to win at

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Speaker 3: this game, and you finish it and you're like, I'm inadequate,

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Speaker 3: and then your book is like, stop it, you guys,

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Speaker 3: just everybody chill. And I think that this is like

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Speaker 3: a great time for that. Have you been paying attention

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Speaker 3: to some of the literature about stressed parents these days?

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Speaker 3: And do you have kind of a response.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I don't know if you in particular referring to

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Speaker 4: the recent New York Times article about that there's like

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Speaker 4: an epidemic of parental stress at this point. Yeah, and yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I've been totally aware of those. Of course, I

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Speaker 4: did not understand those articles were going to come out

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Speaker 4: just weeks before our book came out, so like we

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Speaker 4: did not know that was going to be like the

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Speaker 4: topic on everyone's mind. But it is and I think

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Speaker 4: it was a real reassurance to me that like, oh,

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Speaker 4: this isn't just in my head. People need this message.

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Speaker 4: People need this message. And if you're a parent that

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Speaker 4: is stressed out and feel overwhelmed and the books are

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Speaker 4: making you feel more overwhelmed, I really think this book

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Speaker 4: will help you. I truly hope it will.

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Speaker 3: So your thought is like, yes, this stress is real,

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Speaker 3: and it doesn't have to be this way.

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Speaker 4: And it doesn't have to be this way, Like, obviously

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Speaker 4: we're going to have some amount of worry and stress.

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Speaker 4: That's just life. I understand that. I'm not trying to

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Speaker 4: eliminate I don't think it's possible to eliminate everything. But again,

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Speaker 4: so much of our stress as parents is manufactured, meaning

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Speaker 4: like it's sort of forced on us, Like, oh, you've

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Speaker 4: got to be really stressed out about school. You've got

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Speaker 4: to be really stressed out about extra any extra curricular activities.

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Speaker 4: You've got to be stressed out about you know what

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Speaker 4: about your college. You know, your kid is just born,

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Speaker 4: and you're like, well, where are they going to preschool?

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Speaker 4: Because that's gonna affect where they go to college. Like

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Speaker 4: you're just like, we're so stressed out about it and

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Speaker 4: we don't need to be. It turns out we don't

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Speaker 4: need to be and I can. And again, we want

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Speaker 4: to explain why. It's not like we're just saying we're relaxed,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be fine. We're really saying you can

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Speaker 4: relax and this is why, and this is why, and

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Speaker 4: this is how.

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Speaker 3: So we're going to take a quick break and then

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Speaker 3: we're going to get specific and you're going to give

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Speaker 3: us those answers, and we are going to start with

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Speaker 3: activities because I think that's a hot button item for

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Speaker 3: a lot of our listeners right now. All right, we'll

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Speaker 3: be right back. All right, we are back, And Gabrielle,

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Speaker 3: you have a whole chapter in here about kids sports,

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Speaker 3: and I will give you my confession and that I

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Speaker 3: am kind of in it, not in a super stressful way. Actually,

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Speaker 3: my kids play at the competitive level, but like on

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Speaker 3: the very low end of that where there's no real

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Speaker 3: future thoughts. It's more about now and what they're enjoying

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Speaker 3: right now. And it still takes up a lot of time.

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Speaker 4: It still takes up a lot of time.

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Speaker 3: So what are your thoughts on the industrial complex of

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Speaker 3: kids sports and activities right now?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean, for me, this started literally over two

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Speaker 4: decades ago when we had our oldest child in tea ball.

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Speaker 4: It was our first kind of like experience doing sports.

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Speaker 4: And I was frustrated even then as I'm watching, like

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Speaker 4: the stress around this, Like one, it required a lot

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Speaker 4: of family time, and we already had two younger kids

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Speaker 4: at the time, and so this was not an easy

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Speaker 4: thing to even just like get out of the house

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Speaker 4: and there are practices and there's prevving the snacks and

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Speaker 4: there's a tournament that goes extra long or whatever it is.

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Speaker 4: And I remember feeling like really like, oh, the coach

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Speaker 4: is like mad, or the other parents are mad if

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Speaker 4: we're going to be late to something or we're going

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Speaker 4: to miss a practice like this was like very serious,

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Speaker 4: this tea ball for a lot of these families, And

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Speaker 4: I was so frustrated because I was like, these kids

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Speaker 4: are four and five, Like what is happening? What do

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Speaker 4: we think is happening here? Do we really think we're

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Speaker 4: training the next pro athletes? Statistically? We definitely are not,

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Speaker 4: Like we definitely are not the chance that anyone in

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Speaker 4: this group becomes pro And no one did you know,

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Speaker 4: like the chance to any of these kids even play

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Speaker 4: in high school is actually pretty low, right, So it

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Speaker 4: was really frustrated and that it was like a part

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Speaker 4: time job just to have your kid try teaball. So

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Speaker 4: we really, my husband and I had to really sit

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Speaker 4: down and I had to say, look, I played sport

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Speaker 4: like I was heavy into track and filled. My husband

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Speaker 4: was heavy into tennis, like we played sports, and I

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Speaker 4: played sports growing up, so did my husband. I value sports.

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Speaker 4: I don't mean to say that I don't, But what

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Speaker 4: are we doing here? Like what our goal? Why do

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Speaker 4: we have our kid in tea ball? What is happening?

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Speaker 4: And is this just it? Is this just like yep,

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Speaker 4: to be in sports. It's going to be twenty hours

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Speaker 4: a week from here on out for the rest of

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Speaker 4: your life. And if you have multiple kids, tough luck

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Speaker 4: for you. This is now a full time job. And

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Speaker 4: I couldn't, you know, like, I just couldn't handle that.

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Speaker 4: So we said, why would we want our kids to

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Speaker 4: do sports? What did we get out of it? What

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Speaker 4: do we want them to get out of it? Every

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Speaker 4: family will be different. Your family might be like, oh no,

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Speaker 4: we want to do sports eighty hours a week, like

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Speaker 4: this is what we do, This is our family, our

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Speaker 4: kids love it, our parents love it. Right, if you're

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Speaker 4: happy with your sports situation, I'm not asking you to

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Speaker 4: change it, But if you are overwhelmed, I'm giving you

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Speaker 4: permission to say there are other options. So we ended

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Speaker 4: up saying, Okay, we definitely want our kids to know sports.

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Speaker 4: They live in America. Sports are a big deal here.

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Speaker 4: You kind of need to know how basketball works, and

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Speaker 4: how baseball works, and how football works, and now soccer.

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Speaker 4: You know, like you need to know some of this

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Speaker 4: step right, and the Olympics come and it's a big

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Speaker 4: cultural event and you know, you just want it. Obviously,

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Speaker 4: we'd want you to be familiar with We want our

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Speaker 4: kids to be familiar with sports. Okay, Well that's friend,

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Speaker 4: and that's not the only goal. The other things, like

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Speaker 4: we want them to understand teamwork and good sportsmanship and

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Speaker 4: just general like find something they like to do with

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Speaker 4: their bodies that they could do their whole life that

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Speaker 4: they you know, they like the movement and the athleticism.

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Speaker 4: So if those are the goals, a twenty hour a

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Speaker 4: week sports team isn't actually required to meet those goals.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of ways you could meet those goals.

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Speaker 4: They may be meeting them in pe classes. You may

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Speaker 4: get it from going to the park, meeting other family

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Speaker 4: friends at the park when the summer once a week

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Speaker 4: and you're like, oh, let's have a pickup t ball game,

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Speaker 4: you know, baseball game there, and the kids are learning

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Speaker 4: the rules there. There may be like a general sports

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Speaker 4: camp that they can do for a week where they

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Speaker 4: get introduced to a few different things. You could hire

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Speaker 4: the teenagers in your neighborhood that are like the friendly

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Speaker 4: kids to like, hey, can you teach my kids how

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Speaker 4: to play tennis this summer? You know. I mean, there's

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Speaker 4: a million ways to go about this without having taking

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Speaker 4: over your life. And of course, if your kid is

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Speaker 4: really interesting in the sport and really good at a sport,

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Speaker 4: and they show some real interest and passion there, then

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Speaker 4: of course you can follow that lead and maybe it

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Speaker 4: does become a bigger part of your family life. But

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Speaker 4: you don't have to assume that's what's going to happen,

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Speaker 4: and you don't have to really make sacrifices for this thing.

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Speaker 4: I see so many families make major sacrifices for a

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Speaker 4: sport for many, many years, and by the time the

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Speaker 4: kid is even in high school, they're so burned out

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Speaker 4: on the sport. They're not interested, they don't ever want

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Speaker 4: to play it again. This does not become a lifelong

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Speaker 4: passion for them. They're just like done with it. And

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Speaker 4: you're going, what was that about, Like the sport has

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Speaker 4: now kind of been ruined for this kid and your

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Speaker 4: family spends so much time on it that you missed

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Speaker 4: out finding out what your kid actually likes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because there is this like a cost there. It's

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Speaker 3: all the activities or the family togetherness and whatever that

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Speaker 3: you're not doing. And I think your statistics analysis in

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Speaker 3: the beginning where you're like on the t vault team,

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Speaker 3: the likelihood of anyone doing this professionally remembering that is important.

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Speaker 3: And then also like what you said about the few

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Speaker 3: kids that are going to end up making it through

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Speaker 3: and this becomes part of their lives are the ones

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Speaker 3: that are going to be the very intrinsically motivated ones

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Speaker 3: from the beginning. And then you probably wouldn't even like

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Speaker 3: be listening. You'd be like, well, this doesn't apply to

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Speaker 3: me because my kid's obsessed, and like doesn't the one

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Speaker 3: to like rein it in.

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Speaker 4: Totally totally, and I shouldn't just throw sports under the bus.

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Speaker 4: Because the reality is I've seen this happen with music

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Speaker 4: with families where they're like, oh my gosh, they did,

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Speaker 4: you know, took a second job so they could afford

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Speaker 4: to buy a piano and they're taking let you know,

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Speaker 4: and their kids are getting up at six a m.

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Speaker 4: To practice for an hour before the school and on

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Speaker 4: and on, and you have to go, are you assuming

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Speaker 4: your kid's going to be a professional violinist or pianist

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Speaker 4: or whatever it is. Again, statistically, that's not going to happen.

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Speaker 4: Just understand what you're doing here, Like, just understand what

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Speaker 4: your goals are, what your aims are, and really make

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Speaker 4: sure like are you doing this for you or for

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Speaker 4: your kids? You know, like, really understand what's happening before

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Speaker 4: you make those sacrifices, because you just end up feeling

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Speaker 4: bitter and burned out and stressed out and it's totally unnecessary.

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Speaker 3: You had a cute goal around music in your book

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Speaker 3: that you talked about, which is like, actually, I need

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Speaker 3: to show that part to my husband because I think

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Speaker 3: he has the same vision. Do you remember what you

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Speaker 3: wrote in there?

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Speaker 4: I assume we're talking about having family jam sessions. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I mean like when we like, we grew up in

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Speaker 4: both musical families, my husband and I, and we grew

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Speaker 4: up in a lot of music was connected to religion,

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Speaker 4: and it was like, oh, you needed to learn to

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Speaker 4: play the piano so you could like accompany the church

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Speaker 4: hymns or things like that. Was like a sort of

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Speaker 4: a cultural thing, although very of course, very few people

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Speaker 4: actually do that, but and that was sort of the

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Speaker 4: maybe the goal for our families growing up, you know,

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Speaker 4: for us doing lessons, we didn't have that goal for

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Speaker 4: our kids. We didn't think it was necessary for them

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Speaker 4: to learn how to like accompany church music. So we're like, well,

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Speaker 4: why are we doing this? And we had a few

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Speaker 4: different things in mind. The studies about that, like learning music,

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Speaker 4: learning the language, these kinds of things can open up

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Speaker 4: your brain and help to do better in other areas.

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Speaker 4: So we thought, oh, that's really great. But more than that,

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Speaker 4: we just enjoy music. It's a beautiful part of life.

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Speaker 4: And we wanted to be able to just do kind

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Speaker 4: of a call family jam sessions where everyone's together and

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Speaker 4: we can just pick up whatever instruments nearby. We try

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Speaker 4: to keep a variety of instruments around and enjoy music together,

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Speaker 4: playing and singing learning a song together. And so once

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Speaker 4: that was the goal. Once we understood what the goal was,

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Speaker 4: then suddenly if our kid was just butting heads with

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Speaker 4: us and like not really loving piano or whatever piano lessons,

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Speaker 4: not mining to practice, we could go, Okay, well, is

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Speaker 4: it another instrument you'd like to do? Do we need

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Speaker 4: a different teacher here, or maybe you've learned enough, like

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Speaker 4: if you can like read the piano music enough just

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Speaker 4: to like plink out the tune when we're learning a

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Speaker 4: new song. Okay, well that's an Yeah, we're not expecting

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Speaker 4: you to become a concert pianist. If you were going

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Speaker 4: to be that, you would have given us signs that

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Speaker 4: that's what was gonna happen, that's what you were interested

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Speaker 4: in doing. And it's interesting because the instrument our kids

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Speaker 4: have done tons of different instruments. They've tried still in

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Speaker 4: role in school projects, school orchestras, they've done bands, they've

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Speaker 4: done piano lessons, they've done some string instruments. We've really

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Speaker 4: tried a bunch of different things, because you know, you

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Speaker 4: have to try a lot of stuff to figure out

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Speaker 4: what you like music wise. But it's interesting that the

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Speaker 4: one they've landed on. They almost all well all of

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Speaker 4: them played guitar, and I don't think we actually did

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Speaker 4: lessons for that. Maybe for a couple of weeks for

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Speaker 4: one of our kids. They picked it up from YouTube,

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Speaker 4: learning chords from each other. My husband knew several courts,

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Speaker 4: you know, could teach them some and that's the one

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Speaker 4: that maybe gets used the most in our house of

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Speaker 4: all the instruments. So it's interesting, no matter how what

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Speaker 4: you're doing lesson wise, your kids may end up somewhere

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Speaker 4: else and that's totally fine. But also I feel like

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Speaker 4: we were pretty good at reaching that goal. Our family

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Speaker 4: job sessions are delightful. There are a lot a lot

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Speaker 4: of fun, and we could get there without having a

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Speaker 4: lot of stress around our music lessons.

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Speaker 3: I love that that's kind of a goal for us.

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Speaker 3: We have family jams on Thanksgiving, my kids are working

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Speaker 3: on it, but that's kind of it. I want that

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Speaker 3: like tiny bit of like literacy, and that shouldn't take

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00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 3: a ton of stress to get to versus aiming for

435
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 3: some super high level, which could be a lot for

436
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,639
Speaker 3: everyone involved. Right right, So let's take that kind of

437
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,760
Speaker 3: like parallels on the activities would be the academic side

438
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 3: and your kids did some really interesting and unconventional things,

439
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,639
Speaker 3: and I want to hear. I want to hear both

440
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,800
Speaker 3: how you felt while they were happening, tell people a

441
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 3: little bit about some of those like interesting ups and downs,

442
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:51,680
Speaker 3: and now also how you see it in retrospect, because

443
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,080
Speaker 3: I'm curiously it's different.

444
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,719
Speaker 4: So I think when we talk about parental stress, the

445
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,560
Speaker 4: major portion of it is around, like people are get

446
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 4: very stressed out about school, Like maybe they've got a

447
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 4: new job, they're moving into a new city, and the

448
00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,119
Speaker 4: very first thing they're doing is looking up school districts

449
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 4: and school ratings and figuring out where they should live.

450
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 4: Like this is just like a major part of stress

451
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,600
Speaker 4: for parents, and that extends all the way through college applications,

452
00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 4: from preschool and on, and we have certainly felt it.

453
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 4: We talk about in the book that there's a cultural

454
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 4: myth that we've titled the Reliable Paths of Success, and

455
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 4: it is a myth that has such a stronghold that

456
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 4: even when we sort of became aware of it and

457
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,200
Speaker 4: try to break away, we would get pulled in. We'd

458
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 4: get pulled in, Like it's just it's got a gravity

459
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 4: to it that just grabs you and keeps you there.

460
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 4: And I totally understand because we aren't given a guide

461
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 4: book as parents. There is no instruction manual, and so

462
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 4: this myth is really appealing because the idea is that

463
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 4: if you just stick to this path and keep your

464
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,600
Speaker 4: kid on this reliable path to success, if they get

465
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 4: in the right preschool and then eventually the right middle school,

466
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 4: and then they take the right ap classes and do

467
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: the right sports, that they will get into the top

468
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 4: college and then they will have a happy life. Like

469
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 4: this is this compelling, compelling myth because you want instructions,

470
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 4: You want someone to say, here's the full proof way.

471
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,639
Speaker 4: Of course, it's not full proof. It never was, but

472
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 4: it even is less reliable than it if it was

473
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 4: reliable at some point. It's even less now, Like you

474
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 4: could get a perfect score on the SAT and be

475
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 4: the top of your class, be the valedictorian, and still

476
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 4: not get into Harvard. Like that's a common story. Like

477
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 4: it's there is no guarantee anymore on this reliable quote

478
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 4: unquote path to success. But what happened is, and I

479
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 4: think a lot of stress for parents is if your

480
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 4: kid veers from that path, it's extremely stressful. If they

481
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 4: come home with bad grades, You're like, they're off the path.

482
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 4: What do we do? How do we get them back

483
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 4: on the path? You know, like it feels terrifying if

484
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 4: they dropped out of a high school. You're like, whoa

485
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,160
Speaker 4: red alarm bells? Right, It's just like, holy cow, that's

486
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 4: the worst thing possible. And our kids ended up stepping

487
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,000
Speaker 4: off the path a few times. One of the times,

488
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,880
Speaker 4: the first time that really they stepped off the path

489
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 4: and we realized, oh, okay, there's no going back, is

490
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 4: when we extended our time. We had moved to France

491
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 4: and we extended our time. We thought we're going to

492
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 4: be there eight for a year, and we'd specifically built

493
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 4: it around this path to success. We said we're going

494
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 4: to leave in the middle of the seventh grade for

495
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 4: our oldest and get back in the middle of the

496
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 4: eighth grade. So they're like going to be in both yearbooks.

497
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 4: They're not going to like miss anything, and they'll definitely

498
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 4: be back before high school starts, so they'll have like

499
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 4: a clean transcript us playing transcript for high school. But

500
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 4: then we extended, and we extended a few times, and

501
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 4: we had this talk like, oh, this means they're going

502
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 4: to have a messed up transcript, like we've now taken

503
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,920
Speaker 4: them off the path in a way that they can't

504
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,040
Speaker 4: get back to the path, like it's over. And we

505
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 4: weren't sure if that was the right you know, like

506
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 4: we were terrified. But if we looked at like what

507
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,719
Speaker 4: was actually happening in front of us, us our family

508
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 4: was thriving in France, we had more family closest, more

509
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 4: time together, the kids are learning a new language, We're

510
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 4: you know, expounding our horizons, opening our minds. Of course

511
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 4: we should have stayed, you know, like it was it

512
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 4: was the right thing to do, but it was so

513
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 4: terrifying to kind of permanently take our kid off that path.

514
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 4: So that was the first time that was really scary.

515
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 4: Then we've had other times. We've had kids that skip

516
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 4: their senior year because they decided to go be a

517
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 4: a pair in another country, and we've had things like that.

518
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 4: The scariest was having a kid drop out of high school.

519
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 4: And I had mentioned that earlier. It is in fact

520
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 4: cause for alarm, your brain freaks out. I'm a college graduate.

521
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 4: My husband's not just a college graduate, but two masters

522
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 4: and a PhD from Columbia, Like, like he's you know,

523
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 4: education is vital for us. Our parents are educated, but

524
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 4: on both sets have graduate degree, like we just have

525
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 4: like education. They're teachers and professors. It's like education is

526
00:25:57,280 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 4: so important. And we had a kid drop out of

527
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 4: high school. You're like, what, And this is a kid

528
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 4: that had great grades. This is a kid that teachers love.

529
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 4: There was no had like fallen in with a bad

530
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 4: crowd or you know whatever stereotypical thing. He was just like, no,

531
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 4: I'm done, I'm done. I'm out of here. And we

532
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 4: were totally freaked out, totally freaked out because like, whoa,

533
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 4: what do you do when you're like.

534
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 3: I feel my heart rate going up just thinking about

535
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 3: It's terrifying.

536
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 4: It was terrifying. And I don't mean that it wasn't

537
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: like there's real worry, right, But then we have to

538
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 4: like every time that happens, my husband and I have

539
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 4: to go, Okay, well, no one's died, it's okay. Like

540
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 4: being stressed out is not helping. What can we actually do?

541
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 4: What actions can we take? We ended up talking to

542
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 4: a trusted high school counselor some of the counsel's families

543
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 4: who are trying to get into schools like a college

544
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 4: application counselor a friend recommended this person. We said, okay, great,

545
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 4: we'll talk to them, and it was instantly a million

546
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 4: times better just by like looking at some other options.

547
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 4: I can tell you now, and we say in the book, like,

548
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 4: I don't want to stress anyone out. This kid had

549
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 4: a full right scholarship to one of the top universities

550
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 4: in the country and graduated with honors and is great.

551
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 4: The kid is great, Like like, it all worked out.

552
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 4: So I'm going to tell you the end first, so

553
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 4: you don't have to be listening and be stressed out

554
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 4: for this kid. But what we learned in that lesson is, oh,

555
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 4: that reliable path of success is one path. It's one

556
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 4: path of thousands of millions. It's one path. The chance

557
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 4: that it's going to be the right path for your

558
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 4: kid pretty small. It might though it is the right

559
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 4: path for some kids. And what we're doing as a

560
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 4: culture is we're trying to take every kid and fit

561
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 4: them on this path, and we're trying so hard to

562
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 4: do that, and instead what we discovered is, oh, there's

563
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 4: all these million paths and we just have to find

564
00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 4: the one that fits our kid. And we did, and

565
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,919
Speaker 4: anyone can and it really is going to be okay.

566
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 4: And in our kid's case, we learned about community college,

567
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 4: which is it seems like we should know, we didn't.

568
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 4: We had experience community college our parents had, and it

569
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 4: was just sort of a new thing to us. And

570
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 4: not only did we fall in love with community college,

571
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 4: like our kids experience, there was fantastic, great teachers, great classes,

572
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 4: and a diversity of age and experience in the classes

573
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 4: that you're not going to get at a standard university,

574
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 4: right because everyone at a standard university starts in they're

575
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 4: all eighteen or nineteen, and you know anyway, So loved

576
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 4: our experience there, but it was even better than that.

577
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 4: Many states, and I think most states have programs where

578
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 4: if you enter community college and take a specific course

579
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 4: of classes and pass those classes, you're guaranteed entrance into

580
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,840
Speaker 4: a top university in the state. And California offers that,

581
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 4: and it's an incredible program. It's what our child did,

582
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 4: and not only did they have an amazing time in college,

583
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: it cost half of what college normally. Would we cut

584
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 4: our college class completely in half, Like, imagine that, take

585
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 4: fifty percent of your college costs and just make them disappear.

586
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 4: Because community college is incredibly affordable. I think our tuition

587
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: for the semester, I'm trying to remember. I think it

588
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 4: was like three hundred dollars, like insane.

589
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 3: I used to work as a residency program director, so

590
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 3: you know, they'd graduated medle school school, they're going into residency,

591
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: and the number that started in community college was sizable.

592
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 3: And these are people that are already graduating med schools,

593
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 3: so like they're going to be doctors. They're going to

594
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 3: be fine, right, And actually that was pretty eye opening

595
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: to me, having maybe preconceived notions because of my trajectory,

596
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 3: right right, So yeah, I think that's awesome.

597
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 4: So it's totally true. And I mean the community college

598
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: path is really fascinating because so many like our kid,

599
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 4: went to Berkeley Community College, which was right next to

600
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,479
Speaker 4: Berkeley University, the famous, well known, prestigious university. Many of

601
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 4: the classes they took were taught by professors of the

602
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 4: prestigious university that we're also teaching at the community college,

603
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 4: picking up an extra class here and there, whatever it is.

604
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 4: Professors aren't always paid very well. They have to pick

605
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 4: up extra work. That's its own commentary for another's talk.

606
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 4: But I'm just trying to say that it was a

607
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: quality education. It was not what we expected. We didn't

608
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 4: know anything about it, and boy were we educated. Boy

609
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 4: did we get an education about community college and we

610
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 4: loved it. So that's an option. But it's also this

611
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 4: illustration of American culture loving to give fresh starts, second chances,

612
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 4: clean slates. We really love that. So if you mess

613
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 4: up in high school and you feel like life is over,

614
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 4: it's just not true. There are so many fresh starts

615
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 4: and second chances that you'll get. And it's the same thing.

616
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,719
Speaker 4: If you mess up in college, there's a graduate school.

617
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 4: And if college just isn't for you, there are trade schools,

618
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 4: there are internships, there are other kinds of training. We

619
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 4: love a fresh start, and so just keep that in mind.

620
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,239
Speaker 4: If your kid is messing up or you feel like, oh,

621
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 4: they got off the path and I'm so stressed out,

622
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 4: there are a million paths. You're going to find them

623
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 4: when that fits your kid. And there are a million

624
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 4: successful people the medical students that you're talking about, there

625
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 4: are a million successful people that you know right now

626
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: that if you go ask their background, you're going to

627
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 4: find out they were not on that path. They did

628
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 4: not take the reliable path to success. They took a

629
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 4: different path. And you'll be shocked to find out how

630
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 4: many people that you're looking around saying, oh, they have

631
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 4: a successful life, they're a happy person, did not take

632
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 4: that path. And once you really understand that, a lot

633
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 4: of your parental stress can disappear, can just evaporate. Because

634
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 4: our kid graduated, like I said, top university, full scholarship.

635
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 4: He never took an sat or ACT, didn't take any

636
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 4: AP tests, never applied to a college besides the filling

637
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 4: out a form for community college, which is not like

638
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 4: college apps, like the stressful college apps, none of that.

639
00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,960
Speaker 4: Just bypassed all of that and still had a fantastic trajectory.

640
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 3: And I assume it's not, well, we're going to take

641
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 3: a quick break in a second. But I know it

642
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 3: wasn't just your kid, Like I know, this is like

643
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:08,719
Speaker 3: an option.

644
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 4: And it's interesting.

645
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 3: That you mentioned America loving the second chances because I

646
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 3: feel like it's it's also America that's obsessed with the

647
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: one path. So it's an interesting dichotomy there.

648
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 4: Book.

649
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:20,760
Speaker 3: I think you're you're very very right. Okay, we're going

650
00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 3: to be right back because we went over, but coming

651
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: right back in a second. All right, we are back.

652
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 3: And one other part of your book that I found

653
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 3: fascinating was the part about what we owe each other

654
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 3: as parents and kids. And I will admit I hadn't

655
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: given a lot of thought to it, but it made

656
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 3: me think both about my own parents and my kids.

657
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 3: And yeah, so do you want to I don't want

658
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 3: to like spoil it, but.

659
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 4: Let me dive in, let me die. Yeah. So I

660
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 4: hadn't thought a lot about this either. What kind of

661
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 4: triggered it for me is I had read this article

662
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 4: about a grown man who was suing his parents for

663
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 4: being born, and his parents for both lawyers. This is

664
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 4: going to make it sound like he hates his parents

665
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 4: or something. No, they knew what was happening. They have

666
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 4: a loving relationship. They were like proud of him for

667
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,000
Speaker 4: trying this, basically saying. So he's suing his parents basically saying,

668
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 4: you forced me to be here, and I don't want

669
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: to be here. I don't like this life that I've

670
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 4: got for myself, Like this is not what I want.

671
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 4: And so he's suing his parents for forcing him to

672
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 4: be alive, forcing him to come to their family, or

673
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 4: however you want to describe that I was fascinated by

674
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 4: the idea. Partly it was I've had my own history

675
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 4: of mental health issues with depression, and I know what

676
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 4: it feels like to be like, yeah, I don't want

677
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 4: to be here like this is, this is I'm not

678
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 4: interested in this, which is part of the you know,

679
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 4: the lives of depression that feeds your brain. But anyway,

680
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 4: so I was very interested in that whole concept and

681
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 4: it really got me thinking about although I don't know

682
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 4: what happened with the lawsuit, and I don't really care,

683
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 4: it didn't really matter. I was really interested in this

684
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 4: idea that like, it's true, I forced my kids to

685
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 4: come here, like to come to earth or however you like,

686
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 4: or to be born, or however you like to phrase it.

687
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 4: They didn't have a choice in it. Our kids don't

688
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:27,760
Speaker 4: get to choose their parents, their social status, their financial status,

689
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 4: the city they live in, and it might not be

690
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: the right fit for them, like the thing that you

691
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 4: brought them into, Like we brought our kids into a

692
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: family with lots of kids. Maybe one of them would

693
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 4: have thrived more as an only child. I don't know,

694
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 4: you know, Like we brought them into a family that

695
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 4: has moved quite a bit. Maybe they would have preferred

696
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 4: us stable growing up at the same house childhood like

697
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: I had and my husband had all sorts of things

698
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 4: like that, they don't get a choice in any of this,

699
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,720
Speaker 4: and the idea that our kids somehow like owe us

700
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,440
Speaker 4: birthday cards or Mother's Day flowers or anything, you know,

701
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 4: anything like that, you know, it became clear to me like, oh,

702
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 4: they definitely don't. And I already felt that. I remember

703
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 4: feeling like kind of uncomfortable that, like I didn't want

704
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 4: them to feel like they had to do that for me,

705
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,959
Speaker 4: Like I didn't need that. I'm not. We talked about

706
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:17,839
Speaker 4: love languages. I don't know how they really are, but like,

707
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 4: I don't gifts from my kids is not something that

708
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 4: I need. Is not one of my love languages. So

709
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 4: I guess I probably already felt that, but it just

710
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 4: made it so clear to me, like, look, you forced

711
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,880
Speaker 4: your kids to be here. You owe your kids what

712
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 4: the best of you that you can give them, and right,

713
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 4: you know, like whatever you can offer them, you owe

714
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,800
Speaker 4: that to them because you force them to be here.

715
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 4: And in the same way, in reverse, they don't really

716
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 4: owe you anything now they're here. They're a human, so

717
00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,640
Speaker 4: We're going to say, look, you got to be a

718
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 4: decent human. You owe that to humanity, right, you got

719
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 4: to Oh, you owe that. You're here, you're stuck. You

720
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 4: got to be a decent human. And I'm going to

721
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 4: say you owe that to all your fellow human beings.

722
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 4: But the idea that your kids like owe you something

723
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 4: is you know or that like, well, I was in

724
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 4: labor for twelve hours, so you need to be you know,

725
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 4: nicer to me. Like they didn't ask you to be

726
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 4: in labor for twelve hours. They had nothing to do

727
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 4: with it, Like they didn't ask you to make you know,

728
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 4: you might feel like I'm working two jobs to sacrifice

729
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 4: for my kids. Okay, that's good. I mean, I'm so

730
00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 4: glad you're helping them. But they didn't ask you to

731
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 4: do that, Like, they didn't ask for any of this.

732
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 4: And so this idea that they would owe us something, oh,

733
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 4: that kids owe parents, I think is totally wrong, and

734
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,600
Speaker 4: I think our society gets that wrong. We owe our

735
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 4: kids and we will owe them for the rest of

736
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,040
Speaker 4: their lives, for the privilege of getting to raise them

737
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 4: and see them grow and get the front row seat

738
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,359
Speaker 4: to their life. And it's worth it. It's worth owing them

739
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,400
Speaker 4: to me. It's worth it. It's worth owing them for

740
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 4: the rest of my life that I got to have

741
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 4: this front row seat, because it is really freaking awesome

742
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,560
Speaker 4: to get to see your kids grow and learn and

743
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 4: to get to see a human being come like I

744
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: don't to see their shape taking form, to see like

745
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 4: what they like, what they're interested in, the kind of

746
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,319
Speaker 4: questions they come up with, how their brain works. It's amazing.

747
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 4: It's so amazing and interesting and what a privilege that

748
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 4: parents get to do this and be grateful to your

749
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,359
Speaker 4: kids for giving you the chance, you know, Like that's

750
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 4: really the attitude to take.

751
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 3: And my takeaway and then you went into as well,

752
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 3: was like I want to have a relationship with my

753
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 3: kid where they want like since I don't expect it

754
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: and they don't owe it. Instead it's like how can

755
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 3: we grow up together or like you know, I go

756
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 3: into old age and they go into adulthood so that

757
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 3: they're excited to hang out with me later on, Like

758
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: that's what I want to cultivate. I love a long

759
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 3: view of it. And then the fact that there's no

760
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 3: like given there.

761
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,520
Speaker 4: It's not a given and in fact, there's some discourse

762
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 4: happening right now that I'm seeing it is a chatter

763
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 4: on threads on Twitter about kids who are as strange

764
00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 4: from their parents, and that's a thing that's happening where

765
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 4: kids go, I don't want a relationship with my parents anymore.

766
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 4: And we discussed this in the book. There is a

767
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 4: chapter called the long View of Parenting, and we discuss

768
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 4: how we had learned in a parenting class. It had

769
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,879
Speaker 4: been pointed out to us we've never understood this before

770
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 4: that from eighteen on, your child determines the relationship unless

771
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 4: you have some kind of financial tie like you're paying

772
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 4: their their rent or their tuition or something, that the

773
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 4: child really determines the relationship. And by that I mean

774
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 4: they decide if you will see them, when you will

775
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 4: see them, how long you will see them. And we

776
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 4: know that's true. You can even think about it like

777
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 4: in your own life and think like, oh yeah, like

778
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 4: if you have a partner or a spouse who doesn't

779
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 4: like your family, you probably don't see your family as much.

780
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 4: You know, like you determine what that relationship is with

781
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 4: your parents, and anyway, your kids can decide they don't

782
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 4: like you and they don't want to be with you,

783
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 4: and they might decide that if you've made life really

784
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 4: streng ul for them and made them feel like they're

785
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: never enough and they are not living up to you,

786
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 4: this imagined person you had in your head or you

787
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 4: know whatever, like for lots of reasons, I might go,

788
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 4: I don't like being with you. This is stressful, and

789
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 4: they will cut off the relationship or not talk for

790
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 4: years to their parent. I don't want that. I don't

791
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 4: want that at all. I mean, we know, these first

792
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 4: eighteen years are intense, the intense parenting years, and the

793
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 4: books focus on those eighteen years, the parenting books and

794
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 4: the discussion, and it's you know, with reason, of course

795
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 4: it makes sense, but we should also be aware that

796
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 4: you're gonna have a relationship with your kids for another

797
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 4: forty or sixty or more years after those eighteen years.

798
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 4: Don't ruin it. Don't ruin those forty or sixty years

799
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 4: by being so stressed out in those eighteen years. Enjoy

800
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 4: your kids, Enjoy hanging out with them. Like, notice how

801
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 4: awesome your kids are. I guarantee they're awesome. It's like, again,

802
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 4: it's this whole human being that's an not you, that's

803
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 4: just interesting and they live with you and like, appreciate them,

804
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 4: understand you, learn about them, figure out what they like,

805
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 4: encourage their passions, help them be the best version of themselves,

806
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 4: and try and make a good relationship. Because again, you

807
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 4: want this to extend. It would just break my heart

808
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 4: if my kids just didn't want to hang out with

809
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 4: me anymore and didn't want to come home. Ever, how

810
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 4: heartbreaking would that be for a parent? And I think

811
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 4: it would be heartbreaking for most parents. So anyway, and

812
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 4: this stress, when we talk about parental stress, it's not

813
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 4: just about relieving parents stress. That's real, but it's also

814
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 4: about helping them improve their relationship with their kids because

815
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 4: the stress has real world consequences. It really can hurt

816
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,040
Speaker 4: your relationship with your kids.

817
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:49,160
Speaker 3: I believe it. I love that. So many things to

818
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 3: think about, and I like the kind of long view

819
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 3: that we don't pay a lot of attention to do

820
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 3: because we're so obsessed with what preschool. You know, we

821
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 3: get distracted, right right, So we always end on this

822
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 3: podcas with a love of the week, which is something

823
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: that is making us happy. And I'm going to go

824
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 3: first to give you a minute to think of yours.

825
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:09,239
Speaker 3: But also because it was inspired by what you were

826
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 3: just talking about. My love of the week is learning

827
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 3: from my kids' musical tastes. So I have a twelve,

828
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: ten and seven year old, it's really well she's almost seven,

829
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 3: but yeah, you get what I'm saying. It's more the

830
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 3: older too. But like I have them to thank for

831
00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 3: knowing about Charlie Xcax and Brat and Sabrina Carpenter. I

832
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 3: legitimately enjoy all of it. So I appreciate them giving

833
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 3: me their perspective.

834
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 4: Oh I love that. I love that. I feel this

835
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 4: same like, I'm so grateful to my kids for teaching

836
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 4: me about Chapel Roll and I'm like, I love me

837
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 4: with so much.

838
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 3: It's totally.

839
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 4: My happy thing. It made me so happy is we

840
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,959
Speaker 4: vote from abroad, so we have we live in your calling.

841
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 4: I'm calling in from France and so our fifth child

842
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 4: turn eighteen this year. I got to vote for the

843
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 4: first time, and so we get to print out all

844
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 4: the stuff. It's a different process, but anyway, getting to

845
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 4: see her vote and another daughter is voting for anyway,

846
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 4: just seeing my kids who are living all over the

847
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 4: world right now and sending our votes in and just

848
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 4: feeling like we're still taking part in our democracy, and

849
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 4: it made me really happy to see those. We went

850
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 4: and bought stamps for the envelopes and we bought the

851
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 4: Olympic stamps that showed that like the torch in the

852
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 4: balloon from the Paris Olympics. Anyway, that's the stamp. It

853
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 4: was just like fun to like do.

854
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 3: The whole thing like French twist your balance.

855
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 4: Our special like our special stamp to send our vote in.

856
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 4: And it made me really happy.

857
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 3: Super cool. And I would say this is a great

858
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 3: reminder for everyone to vote, except this does air after

859
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 3: election days, so I hope everyone voted. Oh my gosh,

860
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 3: Well it's been a pleasure. Can you remind our listeners

861
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:51,439
Speaker 3: where to find you, Gabrielle?

862
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 4: Absolutely. You can find me at design mom on Instagram,

863
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 4: on threads. I'm really active on both of those. I'm

864
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 4: at design mom dot com and yeah, find me awesome.

865
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 3: And the book is The Kids Are all Right, Kids

866
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 3: Are all Right, and it's fun. It's a quick read.

867
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 3: I recommend it if you're feeling stressed about parenting. Seriously,

868
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 3: this will talk you down. You'll feel bad.

869
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 4: Well, thank you so much, love these questions, love our conversation.

870
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: Well that was great. We are back after that interview

871
00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: with Gabrielle Blair.

872
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 2: So, Sarah, this question was sort of, I think primarily

873
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 2: addressed to you because your kids do more competitive sports

874
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 2: than mine. But this person writes in I have an

875
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: elementary school student who loves soccer but doesn't have the

876
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: skills many of the other kids his age have. I

877
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 2: keep hearing stories of athletes who started a sport when

878
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: they were three. If I hope my kids will be

879
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: competitive enough to play sports through high school, how important

880
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,760
Speaker 2: is it for them to be good at the sport

881
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,719
Speaker 2: in elementary school or as a toddler, Sarah, is there

882
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,240
Speaker 2: anything you wish you did earlier with your daughter in gymnastics?

883
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 3: Oh? Man, I love that you want him to be

884
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 3: happy playing later on if he loves it now. But

885
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 3: I also feel like is probably time to maybe also

886
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 3: think about what your expectations are and whether there are

887
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 3: some things that you're hoping more for yourself. Like I

888
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: don't like I glean that I'm you have this picture

889
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 3: of like what high school could look like, but like

890
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 3: that might not even be what the kid wants when

891
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 3: they're in high school. Like it's just so hard to know,

892
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 3: So maybe just leaving things a little bit more open

893
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 3: because you also just don't know. Maybe he'll develop talent

894
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 3: later on, maybe he won't, maybe he'll hate sports, maybe

895
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 3: he'll be in choirir, maybe he'll know who knows. So

896
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 3: I guess I think the better attitude is, like, I

897
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: hope to be able to provide my kid with the

898
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 3: tools and training to play sports in high school if

899
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,680
Speaker 3: they would like, and if opportunities come up for extra

900
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 3: training and they are truly interested in Sure you could

901
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 3: do extra when they're younger, but just be careful, because

902
00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 3: I think you don't want to be creating this thing

903
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 3: where the kid feels like they have to please you

904
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 3: and they're doing it like to meet some agenda that

905
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 3: they feel like, is that the right thing to do?

906
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,879
Speaker 3: You'd want to do what they want to be doing.

907
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 3: And sports aren't great. But Laura's kids are doing lots

908
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: of amazing things and being active and they aren't necessarily

909
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: in organized sports. So remember that, you know, if you're

910
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 3: thinking of sports as like a necessary part of a

911
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 3: kind of like healthy life or something like, kids can

912
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 3: do movement in so many other different ways. They could

913
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 3: be in dance, they could be just like going to

914
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,799
Speaker 3: the my friends kids go to Orange Theory with her.

915
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,400
Speaker 3: You know, they don't do sports, but like that's their

916
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 3: way of getting Like there's no one right way of

917
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 3: doing things, and I think that if you are trying

918
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,440
Speaker 3: to push your kids into some athlete type of category,

919
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:44,800
Speaker 3: it may or may not work. I mean, I consider

920
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,879
Speaker 3: myself a pretty athletic adult. I did do competition share,

921
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 3: which I consider a sport while in middle school in

922
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,279
Speaker 3: high school. But if you had tried to put me

923
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 3: in a ball sport, like it just never like I'm terrible,

924
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 3: I hate it, it would have been so sad. And

925
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 3: yet I think that as an adult, like I'm pretty

926
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 3: sporty and I don't think I missed out on anything

927
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 3: by not doing that. So I guess just be careful

928
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 3: what you're wishing for and pushing. And at the same time,

929
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,720
Speaker 3: you are right that certain sports, and you mentioned soccer

930
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 3: that's definitely one of them, do have a higher barrier

931
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 3: to entry if you want to do them at specific

932
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: levels later on. There are still rec leagues where you

933
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 3: can do soccer at any age with no tryouts, so

934
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,440
Speaker 3: at least in my area there is. I do live

935
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: in a very soccery area, but you know, a high

936
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 3: schooler could join the Community Optimist club team having never

937
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: played before, and they would get to experience it. If

938
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 3: you want your kid to be able to do club sports,

939
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 3: they probably need to have some experience. But you asked

940
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 3: about Annabelle, and I think that's actually relevant here. She personally,

941
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 3: she doesn't regret not doing gymnastics earlier. She regrets not

942
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 3: leading into dance because she was in ballet as a

943
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: younger kid and then flounced out quit, didn't want anything

944
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,439
Speaker 3: to do with it, and then started like wat dance

945
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 3: mom and getting into dance. And she does do dance now,

946
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: but not at a super competitive level, partly because she

947
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 3: doesn't have as much of the background. Instead, she had

948
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: more of a gymnastics background and ended up on a

949
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 3: gymnastics team, not at a super high level, but still

950
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 3: at a competitive level. And she wishes that she had

951
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 3: stuck with dance. But do I regret anything. No, First

952
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 3: of all, like as children go, everybody has different levels

953
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 3: of whether you can convince them of things. I don't

954
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 3: want to get into specifics, but let's just say not

955
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 3: a very She is her own person, Like, she's not

956
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 3: going to do stuff that you are urging her just

957
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 3: because you feel like it, And it would have been

958
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 3: the saddest, most horrible battle if I had pushed it,

959
00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 3: and maybe she wouldn't be in anything at all if

960
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 3: that was the case, Like I can't even imagine. So no,

961
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,800
Speaker 3: I don't think I did anything wrong. I always offered

962
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 3: all the options. Do you want to trap for this?

963
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: Do you want to do that? But if the answer

964
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: was like a hard no, then I think my job

965
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: is to say, great, look into what else you can do?

966
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 3: That's a long year.

967
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with all that. I'd also add, yeah,

968
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: that you can do rec league soccer. It's varsity team

969
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 2: at your high school is not the only option. I mean,

970
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: maybe you have a JV team, maybe you have a

971
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,760
Speaker 2: freshman team, right, Like, it depends how big a soccer

972
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 2: team there is at your high school. And then there's

973
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 2: rec leagues, there's club sports whatever that you could do

974
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:19,160
Speaker 2: various different places. So if he still likes soccer, there's

975
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: a way he can play soccer. I would not worry

976
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: about that too much. There are also some high school

977
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 2: teams that take more kids. So we've had the for

978
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: you know, the experience this fall of my fourteen year

979
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 2: old joining the high school cross country team, which he had.

980
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: Maybe I shouldn't be saying this public had not really

981
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 2: run that much prior to joining the team, But at

982
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 2: this point, like two months into training in the season,

983
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 2: I mean, by virtue of being fourteen and doing it

984
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 2: every day, he's gotten a lot faster and developed a

985
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 2: lot of endurance, definitely way faster than I am at

986
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 2: this point. You know, is he going to be running varsity?

987
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 2: I don't know that he ever will, but he likes

988
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:06,480
Speaker 2: it and he likes being on the team. So there's

989
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 2: still even if you don't necessarily have the training since

990
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 2: age three thing going on, there might still be ways

991
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 2: you can be involved in high school sports if you

992
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: choose the right sport.

993
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 1: I guess I will just put it that way. Running's

994
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:22,920
Speaker 1: good for everybody, so.

995
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 3: Yes, and becoming high up in any one sport often

996
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 3: does mean you're spending a lot of like you're sacrificing

997
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 3: something else, So I guess just don't forget about that either.

998
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 3: Like if any part of me is like, oh, I

999
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 3: hope Annabel like goes to the more competitive dynastics track,

1000
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, actually, in some ways I don't hope that,

1001
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,840
Speaker 3: because that might mean like less opportunity to do so

1002
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 3: many other things. So I guess there's not like a

1003
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 3: right answer here anyway.

1004
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:53,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's good to do athletic active things,

1005
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: but there are a lot of ways you can do that.

1006
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: And I certainly didn't play any sports as a high schooler,

1007
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 2: and I probably exercise way more than a lot of

1008
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 2: people who did do sports as a high schooler. So yeah,

1009
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,960
Speaker 2: it's whether you come to something lifelong when you choose

1010
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 2: it yourself, so I always keep that in mind too.

1011
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: Well.

1012
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: This has been best of both worlds.

1013
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: Sarah interviewed Gabrielle Blair about how the kids are all

1014
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: right and we should stress less about our children in general.

1015
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 2: We will be back next week with more on making

1016
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 2: work and life fit together.

1017
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the

1018
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 3: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,

1019
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 3: and you.

1020
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:37,719
Speaker 2: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This

1021
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 2: has been the best of both Worlds podcasts. Please join

1022
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 2: us next time for more on making work and life

1023
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 2: work together.