1
00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:05,880
Speaker 1: Welcome to Backwoods University, a place where we focus on wildlife,

2
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,280
Speaker 1: wild places and the people who dedicate their lives to

3
00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,360
Speaker 1: conserving both. Big shout out to ONEX Hunt for their

4
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:13,600
Speaker 1: support of this podcast.

5
00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:15,760
Speaker 2: I'm your host, Lake Pickle.

6
00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,000
Speaker 1: On this episode, we're headed back down to the brackish

7
00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,319
Speaker 1: waters of America's Amazon. That's the Gulf for any of

8
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 1: you who may have missed that episode. Only this time

9
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: we're setting sail from the Louisiana coast to take a

10
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,120
Speaker 1: good look into the minhaden fishing industry, or pogy boats

11
00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,280
Speaker 1: as they're commonly known, along with the questions surrounding the

12
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 1: amount of byecatch they bring in and the frequent conflicts

13
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,479
Speaker 1: they have with recreational fishermen.

14
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:53,840
Speaker 2: Let's dive into it now.

15
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 1: I'm an Inlander, born and raised where I grew up

16
00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 1: and where I currently live. I'm anywhere from three to

17
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,320
Speaker 1: four hours to the missis or Louisiana coast, but still

18
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 1: during the summer or early fall months, one of my

19
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,480
Speaker 1: favorite things to do is head down there to catch

20
00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,800
Speaker 1: speckled trout and redfish. Myself and often three to four

21
00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,039
Speaker 1: friends will load up and make a long weekend out

22
00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,119
Speaker 1: of it. Which is what you're hearing in the background here.

23
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 1: This clip is from a trip around terry O, Louisiana

24
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,880
Speaker 1: with my good friends Jordan Blissit, Jimmy Primo's, my father,

25
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,280
Speaker 1: Bobby Pickle, and Travis Lovel with really good charters speckle trout.

26
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,480
Speaker 1: Fun to catch, excellent to eat. But me personally, man,

27
00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: I love hooking into those big bull redfish. These things

28
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,080
Speaker 1: will pull and fight you to the point where you'll

29
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,480
Speaker 1: be thinking that you have somehow managed to set your

30
00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: hook into a diesel truck. It's a fight and thrill

31
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 1: that's impossible to forget. But that is just one of

32
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 1: the many crown jewels that make the Louisiana Gulf Coast

33
00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 1: what it is. It's the people, it's the scenery, it's

34
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:53,800
Speaker 1: the smell of the air down there, and the bull

35
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,600
Speaker 1: trump if you're lucky. There's a reason, or really a

36
00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,800
Speaker 1: whole lot of reasons that this place has been a

37
00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:04,480
Speaker 1: sot out destination for thousands upon thousands of anglers. And

38
00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,640
Speaker 1: the short clip that I've shared with y'all here is

39
00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,320
Speaker 1: one of many incredible memories that I've gotten to make

40
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,639
Speaker 1: down there. Man, it's such a special place and an

41
00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 1: incredible resource. But now I'm gonna share with you a

42
00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,919
Speaker 1: clip from another fishing trip. I wasn't on this one.

43
00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 1: A man named Chris Mcaluso was. And Chris had a

44
00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,720
Speaker 1: much different experience on his fishing trip than I did.

45
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 3: Here's Chris, Well, we got the Pogy boats out here

46
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:30,600
Speaker 3: right up against the beach.

47
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,320
Speaker 4: They just strung the.

48
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:37,399
Speaker 5: Per sane net which catches everything that swims, and now

49
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:45,880
Speaker 5: they're pumping the whatever they caught. Pogy's you know, men, aiden, mullet, croakers,

50
00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,600
Speaker 5: speckled trout, white trout, redfish, whatever got caught in that

51
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:54,120
Speaker 5: net they're pumping. It'll go in the hold, into the hold,

52
00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 5: and then the big fish you're gonna get kicked off

53
00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:59,840
Speaker 5: to the side, pretty much dead sharks, bull, redfish.

54
00:02:59,400 --> 00:02:59,920
Speaker 4: Or jacks.

55
00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,480
Speaker 3: And right now they're pumping the water out of the

56
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,079
Speaker 3: hole to make room for more men haden. And all

57
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,079
Speaker 3: that water that's coming out of the boat right now

58
00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,360
Speaker 3: is just no oxygen in it at all.

59
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:10,960
Speaker 4: They're pumping it here.

60
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,760
Speaker 5: This water's hot, it's shallow, they're pumping it in here,

61
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,680
Speaker 5: and when that no oxygen water comes out in here,

62
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 5: it's gonna kill everything there too. So just absolutely no

63
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 5: reason for those boats to be this close to this

64
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,239
Speaker 5: beach well and about four feet of water at the most,

65
00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 5: and we are, I mean, they're less than one hundred

66
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,519
Speaker 5: yards from us right now, about the length of a

67
00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,920
Speaker 5: football field, and we're twenty five yards off this beach,

68
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,440
Speaker 5: so they're less than two hundred yards from this beach,

69
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,920
Speaker 5: a beach that, by the way, just got restored, just

70
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,680
Speaker 5: got one hundred and twenty million dollars invested in it

71
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,520
Speaker 5: to restore it. And you can clearly see this big

72
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 5: boat when he's under power, it's chewing up these sandbars

73
00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,720
Speaker 5: and chewing up the surf very clearly.

74
00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:52,080
Speaker 4: See that.

75
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 1: We're gonna hear from Chris later. But before we go

76
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,680
Speaker 1: any further, the stage has to be set. Two different

77
00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 1: fishing trips off the Louisiana coast that they were conveying

78
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,800
Speaker 1: very different experiences. The biggest difference was the presence of

79
00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,000
Speaker 1: the poggy boat operating close proximity to where Chris was

80
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,760
Speaker 1: trying to fish. And we're going to dive off into

81
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,359
Speaker 1: that subject, but before we all need to understand just

82
00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,560
Speaker 1: exactly what these poggy boats or the min haden fishing industry,

83
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 1: as it's more formally known actually is and heads up.

84
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,840
Speaker 1: If you're a visual learner like I am, you can

85
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:34,600
Speaker 1: see the video of everything I'm about to describe on

86
00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:39,279
Speaker 1: the YouTube version of this episode. Let's dive in the Golf.

87
00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,040
Speaker 1: Min Hayden perse Sane fishery has existed since the late

88
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,440
Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and is the largest commercial fishing in the

89
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,760
Speaker 1: Gulf and the second largest in the United States in

90
00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:54,800
Speaker 1: terms of total landings. Landings peaked around one million metric.

91
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,520
Speaker 2: Tons in the nineteen eighties and has.

92
00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,719
Speaker 1: Averaged around half a million metric tons over the last decade.

93
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,000
Speaker 1: Over ninety percent of that occurs off the coast of Louisiana.

94
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,560
Speaker 1: A Minhagen or a pogi, as the more locally called,

95
00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,359
Speaker 1: is a small, oily fleshed fish. They're bright silver in

96
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 1: color and have a distinct black spot right behind their

97
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: gill opening. They are a flat fish with a deeply

98
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 1: forked tail, and at full maturity they can weigh around

99
00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,760
Speaker 1: a pound and be about fifteen inches in length, So

100
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 1: a relatively small fish is what we're talking about here.

101
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 1: They can be found in coastal and estuary waters and

102
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 1: they're filter feeders, feeding primarily on plankton. They're also a

103
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,680
Speaker 1: very important forage fish to several other predator fish species

104
00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:39,960
Speaker 1: such as redfish, kobia, dolphins.

105
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 4: And many others.

106
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,480
Speaker 1: As far as the role they play for the menhaden

107
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 1: fishing industry, well, they're the life blood of it and

108
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,839
Speaker 1: they're harvested for the production of fertilizers, animal feed, fish bait,

109
00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 1: fish food, and since they're a huge source of Omega

110
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: three fatty acid, menhaden are also used in several human

111
00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,960
Speaker 1: and animal supplements like fishhole pills for example. And for

112
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,560
Speaker 1: the record, I want to put this out early on

113
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,520
Speaker 1: at the front of this episode. I fully believe in

114
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 1: telling both sides of every story, regardless of how controversial

115
00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 1: or my own personal beliefs or biases. You've reached Abram

116
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:17,120
Speaker 1: Fisheries to the operator, Please press zero.

117
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,600
Speaker 4: Thank you for calling it, Blue Empire. You're callings now

118
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:25,680
Speaker 4: being forwarded. Please hold good hearty.

119
00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,640
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I need to speak to the operator.

120
00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,480
Speaker 4: Please, no one's there today as the plants off today.

121
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:34,440
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you very much.

122
00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,160
Speaker 1: So, just for the record, I have tried to get

123
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,320
Speaker 1: a representative from the Menhaden fishing industry to talk to me.

124
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 1: I've called, I've sent emails. I even sent Facebook messages

125
00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,480
Speaker 1: and I was not told no, but I was never

126
00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,479
Speaker 1: responded to. So if anyone from the men Haden industry

127
00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 1: is out there and wants to speak their truth on

128
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:55,680
Speaker 1: this issue.

129
00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:56,280
Speaker 2: I am all ears.

130
00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:57,240
Speaker 4: Get back to me.

131
00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,000
Speaker 1: Anyway, Let's get into it. To kick this off, I'm

132
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 1: driving straight to the source. I made a day trip

133
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,800
Speaker 1: out of it, and now I'm driving into grandew Louisiana,

134
00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,120
Speaker 1: a tourist destination for Anglish.

135
00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:11,280
Speaker 2: Far and wide.

136
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:13,920
Speaker 1: Wanted to come down here and experience some of the

137
00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 1: world renowned inshore fishing that this place offers. The marshy

138
00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: waters hug up to both sides of the road and

139
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,600
Speaker 1: looking out into the distance, I can see several charter

140
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:26,040
Speaker 1: fishing boats. Now to mention, driving past several folks that

141
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,400
Speaker 1: are trying their luck fishing off the bank. As I

142
00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 1: get into town, the roads are lined with stilt elevated

143
00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,400
Speaker 1: buildings whose height protects them from high water incidents. This

144
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,920
Speaker 1: is a recreational fishing town through and through, and I'm

145
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,160
Speaker 1: here to meet a man who has spent his whole

146
00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,200
Speaker 1: life not only appreciating this place, but has made his

147
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,760
Speaker 1: living as a charter fishing guide.

148
00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 6: My name is Keith Bergeron. I've been chartering out of

149
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 6: Grandell for since two thousand and four, twenty one years

150
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 6: going on twenty two. I won't be long. I've been

151
00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 6: fishing all my life. There's no white saying like Florida

152
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,160
Speaker 6: and Gulf Shores. It's brown saying. It's all natural beaches.

153
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,360
Speaker 6: The wildlife is just abundant, and the fishing is extraordinary.

154
00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 6: Anybody who's an outdoors person would come here and just

155
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 6: fall in love with this place.

156
00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,240
Speaker 2: So it was a passion for you, something that you

157
00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,080
Speaker 2: love to do long before it turned into.

158
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,560
Speaker 6: Well, even as like a kid, I was always amazed

159
00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,600
Speaker 6: at how somebody could fish for a living, and I

160
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,320
Speaker 6: always dreamed about it, I guess you could say, but

161
00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 6: never thought I could do it. And I started out

162
00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:43,200
Speaker 6: hoping I could do maybe thirty trips a year, ended

163
00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 6: up doing like sixty. So the first year was just crazy.

164
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:53,120
Speaker 6: Ever since then, it just it's been booming. I got

165
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,080
Speaker 6: more business than I want. I gave a lot of

166
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,719
Speaker 6: trips away to other guides because I just wanted to

167
00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,560
Speaker 6: builds to come here, right even if I'm not fishing them.

168
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,720
Speaker 6: You just want to keep the area perpetuated. Yeah, that's

169
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,120
Speaker 6: just if they can come here and enjoy theirselves. They'll

170
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,720
Speaker 6: come back and hopefully they'll call me again, and if

171
00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,840
Speaker 6: I'm available, take them.

172
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,280
Speaker 1: Keith has a story and perspective that's rooted in love

173
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,320
Speaker 1: and appreciation for this place that he calls home, as

174
00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,640
Speaker 1: well as countless hours spent on the water. I really

175
00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,040
Speaker 1: think you're going to enjoy hearing it. But before we do,

176
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,640
Speaker 1: there's someone else y'all need to meet that shares some

177
00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:32,720
Speaker 1: strong similarities with Keith.

178
00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,400
Speaker 7: Shane Mayfield and I basically operate from portsalthat of Venice, Louisiana.

179
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,760
Speaker 7: I haven't been doing it full time now since ninety six,

180
00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 7: so I guess I'm coming up on thirty years. But

181
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,120
Speaker 7: I did it before that too, all through college, and

182
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,400
Speaker 7: you even a little bit when I was in high

183
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:50,840
Speaker 7: school guiding.

184
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 2: God, yeah, how'd you get into that?

185
00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:58,480
Speaker 7: Long story short? My dad, he still does, run a

186
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,000
Speaker 7: lodge for corporation down in Port Selfur, So that's kind

187
00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:04,040
Speaker 7: of how I got into it.

188
00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 4: In high school. You know, I was working.

189
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 7: I'd worked there in the summers and my off time,

190
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 7: and then i'd take some of their customers help with

191
00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 7: when they had groups coming in to go fishing. And

192
00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:14,079
Speaker 7: then I did that, you know. And then when I

193
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 7: went to college, I you know, I'd come home on

194
00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 7: the weekends and fish and you know, put a little

195
00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:19,840
Speaker 7: money in my pocket.

196
00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:20,360
Speaker 2: Sure.

197
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:22,240
Speaker 7: And then I got out of college and I went

198
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 7: to work for a consulting firm. I have an environmental.

199
00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 4: Degree, and I just like to fish better.

200
00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 7: So I only worked about a year and a half

201
00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,800
Speaker 7: and then I quit my job. And I always tell

202
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:34,920
Speaker 7: my customers. When I told my mother I was gonna quit,

203
00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:36,920
Speaker 7: she said, you're gonna do what I said. Yeah, I'm

204
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,079
Speaker 7: a guide full time. And I say, I wish you'd

205
00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,560
Speaker 7: taken that blackground skillet and beat me upside the head

206
00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:43,559
Speaker 7: with it, because I don't know what I was thinking.

207
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,200
Speaker 7: But all joking aside, it's been it's been good to me.

208
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, see you still like it.

209
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,079
Speaker 7: Like I love taking people fishing. I mean, I done

210
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,840
Speaker 7: caught my share. If I never catch another red fish

211
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,320
Speaker 7: again in my life, I done caught way more than

212
00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:58,680
Speaker 7: most people ever will. So you know, I just like

213
00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,360
Speaker 7: taking people fishing. It's what I do, and I've been

214
00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:02,320
Speaker 7: doing a long time.

215
00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,400
Speaker 1: Both Keith and Shane are Louisiana natives. If their accents

216
00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:10,040
Speaker 1: don't immediately give that away as well as veteran charter

217
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,240
Speaker 1: fishing guides, which is a valuable perspective seeing is one

218
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,120
Speaker 1: of the big topics in question is the significant amount

219
00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,000
Speaker 1: of conflicts that seems to be happening between the pogy

220
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,160
Speaker 1: boats and charter and recreational fishermen. I want to hear

221
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,040
Speaker 1: some of their personal experiences with these pogy boats as

222
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:26,640
Speaker 1: well as their thoughts on them.

223
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,400
Speaker 6: They've always been in this area and it's only certain

224
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,559
Speaker 6: times of a year where the pogy really get abundant

225
00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:38,120
Speaker 6: on the beach. They start schooling and they might be

226
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,240
Speaker 6: laying eggs. I don't know their process of polgi itself,

227
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 6: but I know late summer, when it's hot, we see

228
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,240
Speaker 6: a lot more polgy boat action. They're not scared to

229
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:53,680
Speaker 6: get in there and get on the beach and disrupt

230
00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:59,360
Speaker 6: the fishermen. They yeah, the pogi boats itself, they're all

231
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,040
Speaker 6: about catching them pogies. You know, it don't matter what

232
00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,720
Speaker 6: it takes who they're going to mess up your fishing spot.

233
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,080
Speaker 6: They gone after them pogis. So it got to where

234
00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:16,080
Speaker 6: they were catching so many pogies in a drag that

235
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,960
Speaker 6: they had a net busted on the beach right here

236
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,679
Speaker 6: in front of grand Isle. I don't think they were

237
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:26,440
Speaker 6: very far out, and the net when it ripped, all

238
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,840
Speaker 6: those dead pogies were just floating and they all washed

239
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 6: up on the beach in grand Isle. And this is

240
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,360
Speaker 6: a tourist place, so the town had to deal with

241
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:42,200
Speaker 6: the stench. And I'm talking about three four feet wide,

242
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:46,920
Speaker 6: six st eight inches deep, just dead fish. So we

243
00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:51,679
Speaker 6: had a bad issue here, and grand Isle ended up

244
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,360
Speaker 6: creating a buffer zone which was passed by law, where

245
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,200
Speaker 6: they had to stay away from Grandal for three at

246
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:00,439
Speaker 6: least three miles away.

247
00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,280
Speaker 2: Gotcha, gotcha.

248
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,319
Speaker 1: So before that there was no buffers on. They could

249
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:06,440
Speaker 1: come in wherever they wanted to.

250
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:08,680
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was pretty much free rains.

251
00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,680
Speaker 2: How long ago did they pass their buffers on?

252
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,760
Speaker 6: You know, it's been about two years now, so.

253
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:14,480
Speaker 4: Not that long.

254
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,280
Speaker 1: No, Wow, I would have thought it had been. I

255
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,800
Speaker 1: was expecting to say, ten to fifteen years ago, something

256
00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:20,040
Speaker 1: like that.

257
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,199
Speaker 6: Now, before this, two or three years ago, they were

258
00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,440
Speaker 6: able to come in as close as they wanted. I mean,

259
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,720
Speaker 6: the boats are kicking up sand. That's how shallow they get.

260
00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,600
Speaker 6: These nets are. I'm gonna just guess and say they

261
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,960
Speaker 6: probably fished fifteen feet of water easy. That's how long

262
00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,760
Speaker 6: they stretched down from the bottom to the surface. So

263
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,360
Speaker 6: if you're in eight six eight feet of water or less,

264
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,480
Speaker 6: they're catching everything in sight. Everything in that circle is

265
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,040
Speaker 6: being trapped in that net.

266
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:56,640
Speaker 2: It's not just pogies in and up in.

267
00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:04,520
Speaker 6: No, they got speckled trout, they got flounders, redfish in order,

268
00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 6: even the bull reds, jack Reville dolphin, and they catching torporen.

269
00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,680
Speaker 1: The first talks about making some areas restricted to menhaden

270
00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,200
Speaker 1: fishing started up in twenty twenty three, However, there was

271
00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,920
Speaker 1: no formal law put in place until the early part

272
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four. These laws established a coast wide

273
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,120
Speaker 1: buffer zone of one half mile and a one mile

274
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,960
Speaker 1: buffer zone at Grand Terry, Elmers Island and Holly Beach,

275
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,920
Speaker 1: as well as a three mile buffer zone at Grand Isle.

276
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,680
Speaker 1: These buffer zones were put in place due to several factors,

277
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:45,240
Speaker 1: most notably after eighteen separate fish spills accounting for over

278
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,920
Speaker 1: two point five million waist in min Hayden and at

279
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:52,880
Speaker 1: least several hundred dead breeding sized redfish. This all occurred

280
00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:56,080
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three alone. Some of these filed up

281
00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,560
Speaker 1: popular beaches and seemingly increased the number of conflicts between

282
00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:04,480
Speaker 1: recreational anglers and boaters with the menhaden boats.

283
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:05,600
Speaker 2: There was also a.

284
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,239
Speaker 1: Significant amount of public outcry from local citizens and sportsmen

285
00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,080
Speaker 1: about the potential damage that this method of fishing could

286
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,720
Speaker 1: be causing to the shallow waters, the fishery, and the habitat.

287
00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,520
Speaker 1: I want to get Shane's take on this as well.

288
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:19,640
Speaker 6: I'll say this.

289
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,480
Speaker 7: So, for the first time in thirty years or thirty something,

290
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,520
Speaker 7: whatever it was, the LDWF they had done a stock assessment,

291
00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 7: the first they had done in a long, long, long time.

292
00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 7: And then they got the results and they said, we

293
00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 7: got a redfish problem. In other words, we don't have

294
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,000
Speaker 7: the numbers we'd like to see. We got to do

295
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:42,280
Speaker 7: something about it. Well, they had meetings and meetings, and

296
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,840
Speaker 7: it's always a slow process when you're going through that,

297
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,800
Speaker 7: and finally they came up and they recommended, Okay, we're

298
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,120
Speaker 7: going to drop it from five reds to four reds.

299
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,440
Speaker 7: We're going to go from sixteen to eighteen inch minimum,

300
00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,280
Speaker 7: nothing over twenty seven inches. So that's what they did

301
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,360
Speaker 7: because there was a problem, right, I mean, they've taken

302
00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,560
Speaker 7: that twenty seven inch fish like used to be. We

303
00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 7: could keep one, you know, a recreational anglers and will look,

304
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 7: we never really did keep them. They're not good to eat,

305
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,960
Speaker 7: you know. If people want a trophy, I mean, back

306
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,760
Speaker 7: in the day, somebody might want to keep one to

307
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 7: mount it. But now you can get a replica. You know,

308
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,360
Speaker 7: you measure and girth and take a picture and you

309
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,200
Speaker 7: can get a replica that'll last forever. Well, they cut

310
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 7: that out, they said, okay, you can't keep anything over

311
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,520
Speaker 7: twenty seven inches, no more for recreational charter anglers, what

312
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,640
Speaker 7: have you. Well, yet the poge industry they catch I

313
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 7: don't know. I can't say a definite number. I mean,

314
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:37,600
Speaker 7: I don't know. I'm not on those boats.

315
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 6: I don't see.

316
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,480
Speaker 7: But it's incomprehensible to say that when I'm drifting through

317
00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 7: schools of men Hayden, and on a good day with

318
00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 7: three angles on the boat, we'll catch say forty to

319
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 7: fifty of those things or more, you know, And I'm

320
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,640
Speaker 7: drifting in a bay boat with popping corks. But when

321
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 7: a boat pulls up with a big persing and that's

322
00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,000
Speaker 7: a huge school of Hayden that I know bull reds

323
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,000
Speaker 7: are in, there's no possible way they can't be catching

324
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,439
Speaker 7: them and killing them. I mean, it's just a nature

325
00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 7: of that, the way they fish. And if the recreational

326
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 7: angler can't keep any mature redfish because it's supposed to

327
00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,399
Speaker 7: be bad because of the chaines in the fishery, well,

328
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,639
Speaker 7: if they're killing as many as I know they're killing,

329
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 7: it can't be good.

330
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,840
Speaker 1: Fascinating stuff from Keith and shame and believe me, we're

331
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,120
Speaker 1: not through hearing from these guys. I feel like we're

332
00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 1: just getting into the meat of their stories. But I

333
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 1: feel like now is also a crucial time to kick

334
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:37,160
Speaker 1: it back over to Chris Mcaluso. You remember him from

335
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 1: his fishing clip early in the episode with the pogy

336
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,960
Speaker 1: boat operating close to him. Chris is the director of

337
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,800
Speaker 1: the Center for Marine Fisheries and Mississippi River Program director

338
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,400
Speaker 1: for the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership. He works on conservation

339
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,439
Speaker 1: as well as advancing habitat restoration efforts across the Gulf

340
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,720
Speaker 1: and improving federal fisheries management law and policy. Chris is

341
00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:01,959
Speaker 1: going to give us a more detailed view around the

342
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 1: Menhaden fishing industry and why it's such a cause for concern,

343
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,520
Speaker 1: and he's going to accomplish this by telling us about

344
00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:12,440
Speaker 1: a first of its kind, comprehensive study on the minhaden

345
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 1: industry that was just published earlier this year. Quick heads up,

346
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna hear the term by catch. By catch is

347
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:22,760
Speaker 1: unwanted fish or other marine creatures that get caught during

348
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 1: commercial fishing for a different species. So, for example, a

349
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,159
Speaker 1: bull of redfish caught in a pogy boat net is

350
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:29,720
Speaker 1: by catch.

351
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:30,919
Speaker 2: Here's Chris.

352
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,760
Speaker 3: There have been studies in the past, they were not

353
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,440
Speaker 3: nearly as thorough as the study that was released earlier

354
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 3: this year and was conducted in the twenty twenty four

355
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,679
Speaker 3: fishing season. And I think that was part of the

356
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,520
Speaker 3: problem is that when fishermen and I know and charterboat

357
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,080
Speaker 3: captains you know, were starting to call me, you know,

358
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,919
Speaker 3: eight ten years ago in complaining about what they were

359
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,679
Speaker 3: seeing from the pogy boats, and it really ramped up

360
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 3: in the last five to six years. We just had

361
00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,399
Speaker 3: a number of big spill. The boats were just getting

362
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,800
Speaker 3: closer and closer to some of these very popular fishing areas,

363
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 3: and people were starting to shoot a lot of video

364
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:08,919
Speaker 3: of it, you know. When we would talk about it

365
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 3: with fisheries regulators, so we would go to Wildlife Fisheries

366
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 3: Commission or talk about it with lawmakers. The data had

367
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,240
Speaker 3: big gaps in it, you know, and so you could

368
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 3: draw a lot of different conclusions about just how many

369
00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:24,960
Speaker 3: fish from a by catch perspective were being killed, you know.

370
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,080
Speaker 3: And the number I would use was, Okay, well, they're

371
00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,639
Speaker 3: allowed up to five percent of their total volume to

372
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 3: be bycatch, and if they're harvesting a billion pounds of

373
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:37,520
Speaker 3: men hate in a year, well five percent of that's

374
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 3: fifty million pounds of additional dead fish.

375
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 4: But we didn't know those.

376
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 3: Things for certain, Like we were just putting out the

377
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 3: numbers that were in the previous by catch study, which

378
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 3: had pretty big gaps in it, Like nobody had ever

379
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,920
Speaker 3: really estimated how many bull redfish, for instance, were being killed,

380
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 3: how many croaker were being killed, because it was just

381
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,920
Speaker 3: it's too difficult for researchers or you know, biologists or

382
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 3: fisheries managers to get down into those nets. They just

383
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,800
Speaker 3: didn't have the technology that it took to count all

384
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 3: of the things that were coming onto that boat and

385
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,440
Speaker 3: going into the boat and the things that were being

386
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,080
Speaker 3: kicked back off. Nobody had taken a nearly as close

387
00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:20,840
Speaker 3: a look as was taken last year during that study.

388
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,680
Speaker 1: Before Chris dives into the details of this study, allow

389
00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:26,760
Speaker 1: me to read to you some of the numbers that

390
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 1: came back as a result. The twenty twenty four bycatch

391
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,359
Speaker 1: study of the Industrial Gulf men Haden Fishery indicates the

392
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: following approximately twenty two thousand breeding sized redfish, eighty one

393
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 1: million croker, twenty five million sand trout or white trout

394
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,959
Speaker 1: as they're commonly known, in forty or more other species,

395
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 1: including black drum, sea trout, cownos rays were all observed

396
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,720
Speaker 1: and counted in those poggy nets.

397
00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's just extraordinary when you look at some

398
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 3: of the other numbers they I mean, you know, the

399
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 3: redfish part is what jumps off the page because it's

400
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 3: a game fish. Louisiana recently took action to make it

401
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,080
Speaker 3: illegal for recreational fishermen to harvest a bull redfish, Like

402
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,440
Speaker 3: you can't kill a twenty seven inch plus redfish anymore.

403
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 3: But twenty two thousand of them were killed according to

404
00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 3: the estimate from that study by the min Eiden industry

405
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 3: last year. You know, when I've talked to reporters about

406
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 3: this or I've talked to lawmakers or others about it,

407
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: and they say things like, well, but it's just twenty

408
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,520
Speaker 3: two thousand. I mean, come on, you guys thought it

409
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 3: was a lot more than that, or the industry is

410
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,479
Speaker 3: downplaying that number, and you have to remind them that

411
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,240
Speaker 3: it is illegal for anyone else to kill those fish.

412
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: It's illegal. What they're doing is illegal for everybody else,

413
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:51,320
Speaker 3: you know. And that's the point that I think can't

414
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 3: be lost here. And the reason it's illegal is because

415
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,399
Speaker 3: those fish are important, because the redfish dock in Louisiana

416
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 3: is not nearly as hell healthy as it once was,

417
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 3: and those are the fish that are out there that

418
00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 3: have escaped our marshes, escaped the wetlands, get out into

419
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,760
Speaker 3: the gulf to lay eggs and make more redfish. And

420
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 3: so that's why those fish were protected. That's why recreational

421
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 3: fishermen in this state for the most part, said we

422
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,159
Speaker 3: don't want to kill those fish anymore, because we know

423
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,320
Speaker 3: that the recovery time to bring that species that bring

424
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:27,680
Speaker 3: that population back up to a healthy level gets cut

425
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 3: down significantly if we stop killing the ones that are

426
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 3: making the babies. And so what those guys are doing

427
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 3: killing twenty two thousand buwl redfish. That's illegal for everybody else.

428
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 3: And so that's point number one. The other thing is, though,

429
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 3: you got to look at some of the other species

430
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 3: that are being killed, you know, eighty one million crokers.

431
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: I mean, the estimate is that literally every time those

432
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 3: guys set a net, they're killing six thousand plus crokers.

433
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:53,479
Speaker 4: You know.

434
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 3: Not only is that an important forage pace, an important

435
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,120
Speaker 3: part of the ecosystem, but crokers are also a fish

436
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 3: that recreational and commercial fishermen like to catch because they're

437
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 3: very good to eat, you know, and that could be

438
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 3: a viable commercial target off of Louisiana's coast for commercial

439
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 3: fishermen that don't have snapper quota or other things.

440
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,720
Speaker 4: They could be catching those crokers.

441
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,199
Speaker 3: And there has been a just a stark lack of

442
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 3: bull crokers that folks talk about all the time now.

443
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 3: In the sixties and seventies, when they would go offshore

444
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,639
Speaker 3: or they would fish lake, ponch train, et cetera, they'd

445
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: catch these two pound crokers.

446
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 4: They don't really catch them anymore, like it's a huge deal.

447
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 3: It's almost as big a deal to catch a two

448
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 3: and a half pound croker as it is a twenty

449
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 3: five pound.

450
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,800
Speaker 4: Red snapper two and a half pound. Croakers just aren't

451
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:41,440
Speaker 4: there anymore.

452
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 3: And maybe one of the reasons they're not there is

453
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:45,720
Speaker 3: because the poke boats are killing eighty one million of

454
00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:47,320
Speaker 3: those crokers every single.

455
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 4: Year, you know. So it was just those kind of

456
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 4: numbers that really jump off the page.

457
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 3: To twenty five million white trout, five and a half

458
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: million white shrimp, you know, millions and millions of mullet

459
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: harrying and other things that are out there. You know,

460
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,840
Speaker 3: that's all an important part of the ecosystem, and these

461
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 3: things are supposedly being killed by accident, you know. And

462
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: another number that not a lot of folks have talked

463
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:11,959
Speaker 3: about are made a big deal of is a two

464
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 3: hundred and forty thousand speckl trout. Well, you know, speckel

465
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: trout is one of those fish that generally doesn't get

466
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 3: captured in nets unless it's a gild net. I mean,

467
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 3: they're they're pretty good at getting out of trolls. They're

468
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 3: you know, pretty good at escape and capture, you know,

469
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 3: in these persones. But again, two hundred and forty thousand

470
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 3: speckled trout, I would be willing to bet you that

471
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: that if you took ten charter boat captains from Grand Isle,

472
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: those ten charter boat captains combined in their careers may

473
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 3: not take customers to kill two hundred and forty thousand

474
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 3: combined speckl trout. If a charter boat captain was taking

475
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 3: four customers to catch a limit of speckl trout, and

476
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 3: again a limit of trout now.

477
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 4: Per person in Louisiana's fifteen per day, it's still a

478
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 4: lot of fish.

479
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 3: You'd have to do that four thousand times to equal

480
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 3: to one hundred and forty thousand spec wul trial. There's

481
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 3: just not a lot of charter boat captains who are

482
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,119
Speaker 3: going to do that. I mean, that's the kind of

483
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 3: numbers we're talking about, because that's the volume at which

484
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 3: this vicuery operates.

485
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,160
Speaker 1: We know the Menhaden industry has been around for over

486
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 1: a century, the late eighteen hundreds to be more specific.

487
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: So why has the conflict around this operation seemed to

488
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,359
Speaker 1: have such a significant spike in these recent years.

489
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 3: I think what has stood out to people in the

490
00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 3: last decade or so in terms of the change that

491
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,919
Speaker 3: people have seen in terms of their interactions with the boats,

492
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: is that they went from being domestically owned companies to

493
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 3: foreign controlled companies that didn't really take the same perspective

494
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 3: when it came to how they approach the fishery that

495
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 3: they had when they were domestically owned fisheries.

496
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 4: And that's not me making this up.

497
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 3: I mean that's reflected in some of the data that

498
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 3: we see that in the last ten years a lot

499
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 3: more of the harvest has come closer to shore than

500
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: it used to. And then you know, hearing from fisheries

501
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 3: regulators in Louisiana who've told me off the record on

502
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 3: the side, you know, there was a time where if

503
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 3: we were getting a lot of conflicts and people were

504
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 3: complaining about dead fish or bycatch. You know, if they

505
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 3: complained to say the Department of Wildlife Fisheries, the department

506
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 3: would call the pokey companies and say, hey, y'all might

507
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: need to back off a little bit. But those things

508
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 3: stop happening. You know, if you're a lawmaker who's from

509
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 3: North Louisiana, or you're you know, a member of Congress

510
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 3: or whatever, you know, you look at commercial fisheries and

511
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 3: you say, well, you know, these guys are operating very

512
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,400
Speaker 3: close to the margins and this is a small operation.

513
00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 3: That's not the case. These are not mom and pop crabbers.

514
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 3: This is not a sole proprietor shrimp or anything like that.

515
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: I mean, this is a large industrial activity and they

516
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: harvest and kill things on an industrial scale, and so you.

517
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 4: Got to look at it like that. It's not a

518
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 4: mom and pop shripping operation.

519
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: It's a very large, internationally owned, industrial scale fishing operation.

520
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 6: They got spot or planes that are telling these pogy

521
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 6: boats where to go. They got planes in the air

522
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 6: flying and they give them coordinaces. The boat goes straight

523
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,159
Speaker 6: to that spot. They encompass that whole area with that

524
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,480
Speaker 6: net and whatever's in that net. When they pulling that

525
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 6: net in, the pogies regurgitate and they put off the

526
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 6: slime off their skin. That's just it makes the water

527
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 6: like a slurry. It's real thick and it's nasty. So

528
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 6: all of these fish that are in that net with

529
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 6: the pogies are breathing that stuff in and it's clogging

530
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 6: up their gills and they can't get oxident and that's

531
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 6: why they're dying. So they they have the hose with

532
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 6: the big cage on the end that only allows smaller

533
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 6: fish in. So when they released all the rest of

534
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 6: the fish that are in there, they dead. This last

535
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 6: instance we had was about two or three weeks ago.

536
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 6: I got a call on a Monday. It said they

537
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 6: were right there on the beach, right here in front

538
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 6: of grand Isle. And I got another phone call from

539
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 6: a guy on Wednesday morning because I went. I went

540
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 6: out Wednesday morning in my boat. We went to fish

541
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,239
Speaker 6: Tripletail out towards the mouth of the river, and on

542
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 6: the way back, I got a call from a guide

543
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 6: that said grand Ale Beach has hundreds of bullreds dead

544
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 6: on the beach. So we were coming back from the

545
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 6: mouth of the river and I saw at least fourteen

546
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 6: poge boats in for a baya, which is just easter

547
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:04,120
Speaker 6: here over. They were all together in this one area,

548
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 6: so we went straight over there. So I got some

549
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 6: pictures of some dead redfish floating. And then the Wednesday

550
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 6: is when all of redfish were on the beach. I

551
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 6: got pictures all that Wednesday afternoon Thursday, I got in

552
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 6: my boat and I went to the islands east of

553
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 6: grand Isle, which is only accessible by a boat, and

554
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 6: I have forty pictures over there of dead bullreds. So

555
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 6: all of those bull reds they captured in the nets

556
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 6: on Monday were all dead and floated against the beach,

557
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 6: and that's the only ones I could find. There was

558
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 6: probably more than that. Redfish don't have babies until they

559
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 6: over twenty seven inches the ones that they're killing. There

560
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 6: wasn't one dead red fish out of the one hundred

561
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 6: forty pictures I got that was under twenty seven inches.

562
00:29:57,840 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 2: So they're killing all breeding SIZEA.

563
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 6: Yes, killing all the ones having the babies, but yet

564
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 6: they've stopped the recreational guy from keeping our catching them

565
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 6: at all.

566
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,719
Speaker 8: Thank you for calling day Brook Fishery.

567
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: If you know your party's extension, you may vale with

568
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 3: at any time.

569
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 8: Tell me the voicemail that's one after good Chown. Hey,

570
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 8: my name is Lake. I produce a podcast called Backwoods

571
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 8: University for the media or podcast network. I'm calling to

572
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 8: inquire and see if someone from your organization would be

573
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 8: open to doing a quick interview. I have a flexible

574
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 8: schedule and I could do these interviews digitally, so please

575
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 8: let me know if anyone from your organization be willing

576
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 8: to talk with me, and I would love to talk

577
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 8: with you. Thank you very much.

578
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to put this out there again if anyone

579
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: from the men hay and fishing industry is willing to

580
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: share their side of this story by all means get

581
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: back with me. However, I think we can all agree

582
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 1: that everything we have heard so far is some moving information.

583
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: What I'm curious about now is what do we do

584
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: with it? Where do we go from here.

585
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 7: I'll preface this by saying I don't want anybody to

586
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 7: lose their jobs. You know, there's a lot of things

587
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 7: we've done in wildlife and fisheries over the years that

588
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 7: we used to do that we can't do anymore because

589
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 7: they realize they ain't good for the environment. It ain't

590
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 7: good for the fisheries, ain't good for the wildlight, what

591
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 7: have you. So, I think that's kind of where we're

592
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 7: going with this. I mean, they've outlawed it pretty much

593
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 7: everywhere else in the country except for small way. It's

594
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 7: not nowhere near the large scale, industrial scale they have

595
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 7: here in Louisiana. They have a I think it's a

596
00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 7: half mile buffer zone off of Placamus Parish, which look

597
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 7: half mile is not that far. No, let me tell

598
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 7: you if it was three miles, we would never have conflicts.

599
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: See, that's what's interesting is so, I mean I was interviewed.

600
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: I interviewed a guy in grandal to day and uh,

601
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 1: you know, I was just trying to get honest answers.

602
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: And I said, man, if you could have a magic

603
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: wand and you can, you can make the laws, you

604
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 1: can wave magic wand what would you do. I thought

605
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: he was going to say, I'd make the whole thing

606
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: go away. Yeah, And he said, I just wish they'd

607
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: stay at their three miles buffers on.

608
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 6: Three miles in front of grand Isle is great. I

609
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 6: don't know why it's not three miles all along the coasts.

610
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: So you think they're there, there could potentially be a

611
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 1: way for them to find a way for everybody can work.

612
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: Like, you don't.

613
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: Necessarily have to shut the poge boats down, they just

614
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: need to move out further.

615
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying.

616
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, I don't have a problem when the pogie boats

617
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 6: work and just not killing everything inside, right, and they

618
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 6: and they're probably still going to have have some by

619
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 6: catch being that for out, but at least it's not

620
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,479
Speaker 6: on the beach where they're killing all the spectacled trout,

621
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 6: the croakers, all the smaller fish that can't go out

622
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 6: in that deep water because they're gonna get eaten. They

623
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 6: on that beach because that's their protection and that's where

624
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 6: they thrive at. So yeah, if the pogi boats were

625
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 6: further out, and I know what they're gonna say, the

626
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 6: polgive industry is gonna say, they can't catch nothing out

627
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 6: that far. I don't know what else to tell you.

628
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 6: We're the only state that allows this practice to continue.

629
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 7: If you push them out further, you would never have

630
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 7: that conflict because I'm gonna tell you, we don't never

631
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 7: drift out three miles, right, never, never, never, never. Now

632
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 7: how it impacts their fishery, I mean, I can't say that.

633
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 4: I don't know.

634
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 7: I don't know, but I do know if they were

635
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 7: outside of three miles, they are off a grand isle,

636
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 7: this would be a moot point. Now they ain't gonna

637
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 7: be good enough for some people, But you know what,

638
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 7: I'm willing to give something, yeah, or they willing to

639
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 7: give something.

640
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 4: Compromise, Yeah, compromise.

641
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: I just man, I feel like and this is I

642
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,680
Speaker 1: haven't been able to talk to anybody on the men

643
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: Haden fishery side. I honestly just for the just for

644
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: the sake of having a balanced journalism, I would try

645
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 1: to talk to one of them, but I haven't been

646
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: able to do that. But everything that I'm pointing to

647
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: that that I can gather it points to this needs

648
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: to be looked at just from a ecological standpoint and

649
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 1: for the health of the fishery. It's like it seems

650
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: to be folks need to take a closer look at this.

651
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: And two, understand the men and haden industry. I understand

652
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 1: there's jobs there. Understand that. Yeah, also understand how much

653
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: tourism dollars and big the businesses for charter guide service.

654
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,239
Speaker 7: Well okay, and not to cut you off, but that

655
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 7: is therein lies a big problem because look, you know,

656
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 7: the commercial fishing has always butted heads with recreational that

657
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 7: is wherever you go, you know, and look, there's there's

658
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 7: sometimes as a disconnect. You know, people don't don't realize that,

659
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 7: you know that what's what's going on out there is

660
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,480
Speaker 7: that they don't see it. Most of my people from

661
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 7: out of town, so not only did they pay my

662
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,439
Speaker 7: rate that I charge, but they're staying at a bed

663
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,800
Speaker 7: and breakfast and right the import selfer, you know, they're

664
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 7: traveling through. We stopped at the local grocery store because

665
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 7: they needed to get something. We came back from fishing.

666
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 7: They went, they lunch yesterday when they got in earliest

667
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 7: that when they lunch at the small restaurant, right the

668
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,319
Speaker 7: import selfer. So it's not only my fee, my rate

669
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 7: I'm charging per day, but it's the lodges, it's the stores,

670
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 7: and we're bringing all these people in. What how much

671
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,799
Speaker 7: are the men Hagen boats? How many people are coming

672
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 7: in on the men Who's day? None of those guys

673
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 7: are coming in and stay ain't at lodges and all that. Yeah,

674
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,319
Speaker 7: you know, the boats are buying food maybe from a

675
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 7: local vendor. But as far as people actually come in

676
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 7: and going down those guys going to Venice Marina or

677
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,480
Speaker 7: going to Cypruss Cove or going to the you know

678
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 7: this lodge or that lord, they ain't doing that. And

679
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 7: our guys are that. You know, we're a small parish.

680
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 7: We don't have the oil industry like we used to have,

681
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,839
Speaker 7: commercial fishing, edting like it used to be. So you know,

682
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 7: they pay property taxes and I mean so you know

683
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 7: they've been around, They've been around a long time, so

684
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 7: people want to protect it.

685
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 4: And I get that. I get that, Like I said, I.

686
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 7: Don't want anybody to lose their job, But I say,

687
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 7: what about me? I mean, what about what I do?

688
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 7: What about people coming from all over the country. I'd

689
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 7: say ninety percent of my people are coming from the

690
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 7: way out. It's an economic impact that I'm going to

691
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 7: tell you. If you didn't have that for a lot

692
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 7: of these small coastal communities, they wouldn't be It'd be

693
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:57,240
Speaker 7: a ghost.

694
00:36:57,320 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 8: Have that.

695
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's a lot about the character of

696
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 1: these men that the solution that they're seeking here is

697
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 1: really just an even playing field for both sides. I

698
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: mean really, after the stories that they share, and honestly,

699
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: some of them didn't even make it endo the episode

700
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: due to time constraints, I thought for sure that they

701
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: would be wanting to put an end to menhaden fishing outright,

702
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: But they didn't. They recognized that this industry is how

703
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: some folks make their living and support their families. They

704
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: realize that this industry has an economic impact. I'm going

705
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: to share my own opinion here, but based off of

706
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 1: the information that I have right now, I think that

707
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 1: what these guys are asking for is reasonable. They want

708
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,760
Speaker 1: to take a closer look at the fishing industry, the methods,

709
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: the bycatch, the conflict between recreational and charter fishermen. Is

710
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: there a way that they can find more common ground.

711
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 1: Is there ways to continue harvesting men haden and it

712
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: be more sustainable with less bycatch and less harm done

713
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: to the habitat. These questions are not outlandish, and I

714
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: think worth being asked, and more importantly, I think they're

715
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: worth finding an answer to.

716
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 3: We really weren't ever pushing or haven't ever been pushing

717
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,920
Speaker 3: to eliminate the men hate in the industry. But what

718
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 3: we wanted to do was find a way that they

719
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 3: can continue to operate, but to protect some of those

720
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 3: more sensitive habitats that we knew were being damaged by

721
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 3: those nets and by those boats making contact with the

722
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 3: water bottom and getting, you know, very very close to

723
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 3: our beaches. I mean, I've seen pokey boats setting nets

724
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 3: in water that was four and a half to five

725
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 3: feet deep. You know, these boats draft ten feet at

726
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 3: least nine feet maybe at a minimum when they're empty,

727
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 3: which means I have watched them plow through the water bottom.

728
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: You know, I've watched them dig up the sand and

729
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 3: dig up the sandbars to get the boat into where

730
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,400
Speaker 3: they were harvesting the fish. And I know that that

731
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 3: persane is making an enormous amount of contact on that

732
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 3: water bottom. I see the amount of sediment that's being

733
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 3: stirred up. And the fact is there's not a biologist

734
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: who would argue against this, but that you know, the

735
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,840
Speaker 3: majority of your biomass, you know, in a coastal situation,

736
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,399
Speaker 3: happens in that area that's within a mile or two

737
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 3: of the beach. That's just where most of your species

738
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 3: are going to be. You know, there was a conservation

739
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 3: element to moving the boats into a little bit deeper water,

740
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,200
Speaker 3: and it was that by not having those nets all

741
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 3: over the bottom of the water, you were going to

742
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: reduce potentially the volume of bycatch, but also reduce the

743
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 3: number of species that were being impacted, and you were

744
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 3: going to keep that water bottom more intact. And this

745
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 3: is something I think we've seen born out in that

746
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,280
Speaker 3: by catch study. You know, as you move into deeper water,

747
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 3: the number of species impacted go down, the volume of

748
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 3: bycatch goes down, and so there is a conservation value

749
00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: to moving those boats into deeper water. You know, it'd

750
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 3: be nice for them to make some concessions here and there,

751
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 3: that a little bit of conservation goes a long way,

752
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 3: not just from a public relations perspective, but just from

753
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: the value of our resource. You know, Let's say you

754
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 3: went to the Prairie Pothole region, right and you told

755
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,360
Speaker 3: the duck hunters up there that there was this industry

756
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 3: that was going to employ a few hundred people. It

757
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 3: was going to have some economic impact on the communities,

758
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:24,000
Speaker 3: it was going.

759
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,280
Speaker 4: To provide some jobs.

760
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 3: The trade off there is going to be we're going

761
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 3: to have to kill thirty thousand specklebelly geese, about two

762
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,919
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand blueing teal and mallards, and about

763
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 3: one hundred thousand mourning doves or a hundred million mourning doves.

764
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 3: You guys cool with that? Nobody would be cool with that.

765
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 3: Nobody would be cool with that, and no politician would

766
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 3: back that, you know, nobody would put their name to that.

767
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,799
Speaker 3: And yet that's in essence what's happening here. I mean,

768
00:40:57,840 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 3: that's sort of the level that we're dealing with. I mean,

769
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 3: red fish in Louisiana or a game fish.

770
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 4: And the bottom.

771
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 3: Line is it's not okay for those guys to be

772
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 3: killing those fish. It's not because it's not okay for

773
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: anybody else to be killing them.

774
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 7: I wish I had more education on the actual industry itself,

775
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 7: as far as you know why going out deeper would

776
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,320
Speaker 7: affect their profit margin or.

777
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,799
Speaker 4: What would it? What would it? What would it?

778
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 7: What would them being out three miles statewide due to

779
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 7: their bottom line or their business? And I'm sure when

780
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 7: people on the other side are listening to this, they're

781
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:38,440
Speaker 7: gonna be saying, yeah, you don't know, you don't know. No,

782
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 7: I don't, but tell me and let me know. But still,

783
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 7: can we meet? Can you know, let's let's find a

784
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,920
Speaker 7: let's find a meeting place. I would say, hey, if

785
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,240
Speaker 7: you see boats over there, just don't go buy them.

786
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 7: What I'm doing is sustainable, yeah, because I ain't keeping nothing.

787
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 7: I'm throwing them all back. Does a fish die and

788
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 7: every now and then maybe, but I mean we we

789
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 7: fight them, we unhook them, you know, every now and

790
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 7: then you might have one that's hooked.

791
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,960
Speaker 4: Deep it bleeds a little bit, but that is like

792
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 4: very rare, rare, you know.

793
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 7: So I can say without a shadow doubt that what

794
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 7: I'm doing is sustainable and it can and if you

795
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 7: protect the fishery, what I'm doing. You can do this forever.

796
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 7: You know, if you keep on keeping on the way,

797
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:22,160
Speaker 7: we're losing habitat. Eventually all that large scale industrial fishing

798
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 7: that's gonna be done.

799
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: I'll tell you one thing. For my separate conversations with Keith,

800
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 1: Shane and Chris, all of them have an undeniable appreciation

801
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: for the Louisiana coast. It comes from a place of

802
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 1: authenticity and I respect it.

803
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: It's impossible not to.

804
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: Before we wrap this up, I want to hear some

805
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: final thoughts from both Chris and Keith about what they

806
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 1: think and hope for the future of the Menhaden fishing industry.

807
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 3: You know, my primary focus at TRCP has always been habitat,

808
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 3: habitat restoration and the Mississippi River basin, especially focused in Louisiana,

809
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,359
Speaker 3: and it's a top two to three priority for our

810
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 3: center in particular, and it's a priority for our board

811
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,439
Speaker 3: and for the organization, and it will continue to be

812
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 3: because I think there is a path. It's difficult to

813
00:43:13,080 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 3: see it right now, but there is a path to

814
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 3: not only better conservation in the Atlantic Basin when it

815
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 3: comes to men Ain't fishing, but also in the Gulf.

816
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 6: I'm opening as many eyes as I can to this

817
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 6: right now. I'm hoping that something gets done. I mean,

818
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,359
Speaker 6: that's all I can do is try. If I don't

819
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 6: succeed doing this, I'm just gonna throw my hands up

820
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 6: and say we can't do nothing about it. You know,

821
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 6: that's all you can do.

822
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I hope something does change.

823
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 6: Yeah, me too.

824
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 2: For every probably I'll say.

825
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,920
Speaker 6: It's not me. It's not about me. It's about the

826
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 6: kids coming up, you know, families coming down here to

827
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 6: enjoy ourselves and catch fish. In the future, I'll be

828
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 6: long gone. People will still be fishing. Yeah, and if

829
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 6: you keep wiping them out, then I will be here.

830
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: Regardless of where you fall on this issue, Hopefully we

831
00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: can all agree on wanting a healthy and sustainable fishery

832
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 1: and coastal habitat in the future. The question is how

833
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: do we get there? What do y'all think. If there's

834
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: one thing I am confident in, it's that we should

835
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: never be afraid to ask questions. I want to thank

836
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: all of you for listening to Backwoods University as well

837
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,560
Speaker 1: as Bear Grease and this country life. I mean, really,

838
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: the warm welcome that all of you have given me

839
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,080
Speaker 1: to this bear grease podcast. Feed means a whole lot

840
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: and I appreciate it. And hey, if you liked this episode,

841
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: share it with either the worst or best angler you

842
00:44:57,120 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: have in your contact list. Only don't tell them what

843
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: you that's one they are.

844
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: Leave them guessing.

845
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: And also be sure to check out Blood Trails, the

846
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: newest podcast addition to the Meat Eater Network. This is

847
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: the true crime genre and hunting and fishing world Colliding,

848
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,839
Speaker 1: hosted by writer and journalist Jordan Sillers. You will hear

849
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 1: everything from missing hunters, poachers turned killers, and fishing trips

850
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,800
Speaker 1: gone fatally wrong. It is a fascinating podcast that you

851
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 1: will not want to miss in the first episode premiere's Thursday,

852
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,759
Speaker 1: October thirtieth. Be sure to check that out and subscribe

853
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: to it so that you'll be notified when the first

854
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,239
Speaker 1: episode drops. I'm telling you this is gonna be good.

855
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: And stick around here because if this podcast was an

856
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 1: inshore fishing trip, we haven't even made it out of

857
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: the no wake zone yet. We're just getting started. There's

858
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: a whole lot more on the way.