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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From House stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen. Today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about a topic that is very near and dear to

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Speaker 1: my heart, which is archaeology. I am a big geek

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Speaker 1: and I did not know this about you. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you learn all sorts of things about me. I read

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Speaker 1: romance novels. I wanted to be an archaeologist, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's all because of Indiana Jones. Let's be honest. Yeah

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Speaker 1: it was. Yeah. As a kid, I watched a Temple

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Speaker 1: of Doom. I know it's not everybody's favorite, get over it.

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Speaker 1: I watched Temple of Doom over and over and over again,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, how well I knew when to

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Speaker 1: cover my eyes when he ripped the guy's heart out

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Speaker 1: and when they're crawling through that roach cave. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm afraid of bugs. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: it's because of that the coach cave, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was convinced that I was going to be an archaeologist.

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Speaker 1: And I was convinced of this up and through up

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Speaker 1: until my freshman year of college, and I took an

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Speaker 1: anthropology class. You know, I went to college is as

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Speaker 1: an undecided like many like many kids do. Quick question,

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Speaker 1: did you wear a lot of khaki in these days?

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Speaker 1: I didn't shoot shoot Now I wear camo instead. No.

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Speaker 1: I I took an anthropology class. I was determined that

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Speaker 1: I was going to become an archaeologist, and I was all.

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Speaker 1: I was with it when you learned about monkeys, and

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Speaker 1: I was. I was there. And then we got to

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Speaker 1: the archaeology section and I fell asleep every day in class. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it just wasn't as interesting. And I guess once you

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Speaker 1: find out all the nitty gritty details behind, like your

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Speaker 1: dream job, it might not seem as appealing. And your

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Speaker 1: professor did not look like Harrison Ford. No, shockingly no,

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Speaker 1: and neither did my t A. But I can tell

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Speaker 1: you the difference between a boy monkey head and a

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Speaker 1: girl monkey head. So there's that. Okay, Yeah, that's all

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Speaker 1: I got though. Well, now you know even more about archaeology, though, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: because you have dug up yep, you dug up a

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Speaker 1: history of women in archaeology. Yeah, and if I had

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Speaker 1: become an archaeologist, I would have been a rare breed,

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Speaker 1: part of a rare breed. Indeed, and books on women

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Speaker 1: in archaeology are also rare, and we are pulling from

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Speaker 1: three primary books. Uh, this one isn't so much article based,

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Speaker 1: but more based on books. Let's go ahead and tossed

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Speaker 1: out the three books that we are going to be

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Speaker 1: discussing today, first of which would be Ladies of the Field,

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Speaker 1: Early Women Archaeologists and their Search for Adventure by Amanda Adams.

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Speaker 1: Then we have Excavating Women, a history of women in

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Speaker 1: European archaeology, and the third is Women in Archaeology by

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Speaker 1: Cheryl Classen. She writes the intro was sort of a

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Speaker 1: big group of essays about famous lady archaeologists. So right

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Speaker 1: off the bat, we can go ahead and tell you

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Speaker 1: that women do not have a very strong presence in archaeology.

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Speaker 1: Maybe perhaps because of an Indiana Jones effect. Maybe not sure.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. He was handsome, he was, I was

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Speaker 1: ready to go hang out with him. But even though

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Speaker 1: women comprise a small percentage of archaeologists, they have been

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Speaker 1: digging up all those artifacts since it was first created

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Speaker 1: as a discipline in the nineteenth century. Yeah, and really

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Speaker 1: you can think of of anybody men or women who

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Speaker 1: were part of the field during the nineteenth century as pioneers.

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Speaker 1: And one woman who who comes to mind is Joanna

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Speaker 1: Mestor if she's German, who despite not being able to

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Speaker 1: go to university in Germany, built an academic career on

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Speaker 1: self study and she actually became the first female museum

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Speaker 1: director in Germany in one And it was a lot

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Speaker 1: of women like this who might not have had a

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Speaker 1: formal education at first, who taught themselves all they needed

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Speaker 1: to know, or they worked alongside their husbands or fathers

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Speaker 1: to find out everything there was in the field. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't uncommon for a woman like Messdorff to not

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Speaker 1: have a college education because women being permitted to university

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Speaker 1: lectures really wasn't formally permitted in places like Great Britain Norway.

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Speaker 1: In Denmark until the eighteen seventies. Cambridge, for instance, granted

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Speaker 1: women full membership in nineteen but it had established an

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Speaker 1: all female college in the meantime um But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, upper class educated women especially were still taught

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Speaker 1: Latin and Greek, which ties in a lot with the

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Speaker 1: interest in archaeology. Italy had become a popular destination site

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Speaker 1: as the you know, the seat of the home of

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Speaker 1: the classics um and then there was also this rise

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Speaker 1: in um an interest in Egyptology in the nineteenth century

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, granted, a lot of the the excavations

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Speaker 1: and expeditions that were going on in Egypt were kind

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Speaker 1: of looting, but there was still an interest, even if

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Speaker 1: it was in stealing gold. But after World War One,

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Speaker 1: more women started going to college. More women also started

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Speaker 1: entering the field of archaeology, but a lot of them

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Speaker 1: were going about it a different way than men were.

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Speaker 1: Instead of going on digs and leading these projects, a

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Speaker 1: lot of women were getting into the field through museum

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Speaker 1: work and research, which we shouldn't. I mean, that's not

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Speaker 1: a bad thing. They contributed quite a bit, but they're

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Speaker 1: just they had to sort of go about it in

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Speaker 1: more of an indirect way. Yeah, I thought it was interesting.

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Speaker 1: There was a quote from this coming from nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: three saying that I think this was from a male

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Speaker 1: museum curator saying that women are specially suited to museum

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Speaker 1: work by their love of the beautiful, their adaptability, and

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Speaker 1: their patients In detailed work, so academia, the more academic

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Speaker 1: side of archaeology, and actually going on those digs more

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Speaker 1: closed off. But women were come to the museum, handled

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Speaker 1: this pottery and jewelry. You like findings there, something sparkling,

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Speaker 1: you have soft hands. Yeah. Talk about but Cheryl class

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Speaker 1: and who we mentioned at the beginning, looks at archaeology

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Speaker 1: through the lens of gender, and she talks about how

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Speaker 1: really until the sixties, upper class educated white women were

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Speaker 1: sort of repelled from the field, particularly going out on

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Speaker 1: digs and whatnot. And in the US in the nineteen thirties,

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Speaker 1: she says that there was a class and race based

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Speaker 1: definition of femininity that limited women's involvement in the field.

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Speaker 1: And during this time, while more women were getting involved

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Speaker 1: in archaeology digs, things like that, it was sort of limited,

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Speaker 1: particularly in the US two more unskilled labor. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: often that was had racist undertones to it because it

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Speaker 1: was really only open to black women. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: this um excavation came to be considered appropriate work for

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Speaker 1: unemployed women, especially women of color, in new deal projects

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties and the nineteen forties. So there

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Speaker 1: was this issue of femininity. But only if you're an

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Speaker 1: upper class white woman. If you're a lower class woman,

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Speaker 1: black or white, it's all right if you get your

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Speaker 1: hands throw out in the fields. The attitude uh now

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Speaker 1: class and says women constitute still a very small percent.

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Speaker 1: In the nineties, She said that only of the archaeologists

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Speaker 1: in the top thirty academic departments were women, and many

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Speaker 1: work in small contract companies or have only research affiliations

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Speaker 1: with departments and museums. Basically, this means that women end

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Speaker 1: up having few role models of their same gender, and

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Speaker 1: that leads to poor networks essentially. And this reflects a

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Speaker 1: lot from the conversations that we've had about women in

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Speaker 1: sciences and the STEM courses science, technology, engineering, and math.

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Speaker 1: We see that reflected um in archaeology as well. And

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Speaker 1: this is coming from a two thousand eleven article on

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Speaker 1: Biblical archaeology dot org. Jenny Ebling, an associate professor of

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Speaker 1: archaeology at the University of Evansville in Indiana, pointed out

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Speaker 1: that in the Big Bolical Archaeology Reviews, which Caroline, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you have a subscription to that iolutely in their

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Speaker 1: two thousand eleven list of big opportunities in Israel naturally

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Speaker 1: because it's biblical archaeology. Only two of the twenty two

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Speaker 1: excavations were either directed or co directed by women, and

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Speaker 1: she also found that fewer than a third of the

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Speaker 1: licenses granted by the Israel Antiquities Authority of two thousand

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Speaker 1: eleven were issued to female archaeologists, and she's not entirely

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Speaker 1: sure why, but as comes up so often in this podcast,

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Speaker 1: there is a significant gender gap. There is and classen

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Speaker 1: like we mentioned, who looks at archaeology not necessarily from

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Speaker 1: just being a science field, and looks at it as

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Speaker 1: a gender sort of it, the whole gendered aspect of it,

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Speaker 1: and women's involvement. She says that homophobia is a part

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Speaker 1: of why women have not been involved, and there was

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Speaker 1: this whole issue of, like we said, femininity, traditional femininity,

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Speaker 1: and that if you are a woman who only wanted

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Speaker 1: to pursue education, but wanted to pursue a quote unquote

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Speaker 1: athletic pursuit like archaeology, you were non feminine. You were

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Speaker 1: a non woman, And so there was this whole idea

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Speaker 1: that connected uh feminist, the feminist movement or feminism to lesbianism,

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Speaker 1: and so you were just this total odd ball if

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Speaker 1: you wanted to participate in something that was dirty and outside. Well,

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Speaker 1: and this is coming from this. Nineteen o four, a

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Speaker 1: director of Denmark's National Museum said, the work of the

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Speaker 1: monuments of our fatherland is, according to its nature, men's work,

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Speaker 1: and it demands the exercise of physical strength and stamina,

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Speaker 1: which cannot be expected to be found amongst women. It's

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Speaker 1: that outdoor labor that's involved with um, the digging, which

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Speaker 1: is maybe why still you know, we don't see a

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Speaker 1: lot of female dig directors. But we are in the laboratories.

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Speaker 1: I was about to say laboratory. We are in the laboratories. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In the museum's working with pottery, textiles, jewelry and more

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Speaker 1: special lies um fields. Right. And one one person who

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Speaker 1: still makes people angry is Harvard professor Edward H. Clark,

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Speaker 1: who was working in the mid to late eighteen hundreds

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Speaker 1: women watch your ovaries. He said that mental activity interfered

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Speaker 1: with ovulation, so women should focus on their reproductive abilities.

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Speaker 1: The education of women creates a class of sexless humans.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, it upsets the whole system. If you're

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Speaker 1: not a manly man or a girly girl, we don't

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Speaker 1: know what you are. Well, I think that we can

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Speaker 1: say that since Edward old Ed was saying this in

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Speaker 1: the mid to late eighteen hundreds, I think women, modern

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Speaker 1: women have proven him wrong. We are still producing women

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Speaker 1: having sexual intercourse and careers. It's incredible. And we go outside. Yes,

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Speaker 1: sometimes um and glass In talks about archaeology and how

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Speaker 1: it combines athleticism and intelligence, those two traditionally male gendered characteristics. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which ended up dissuading some women from pursuing it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there could have been some women out there who thought

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Speaker 1: going to Egypt and digging up a treasure trove, that

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Speaker 1: sounds really interesting, But I better stay home and just

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Speaker 1: do my knitting or think about. I mean, the the

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Speaker 1: cultural icon of archaeology that we have is Indiana Jones.

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Speaker 1: And I'm not saying anything against Indiana Jones films. I

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Speaker 1: love them. I love them as a child. I will

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Speaker 1: watch them still today. But nevertheless, you know, it does

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Speaker 1: have that, you know, maybe the connotation of archaeology as

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Speaker 1: this masculine field where the women are just gorgeous vixens

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Speaker 1: and you know, well dressed curators exactly delicate things floating

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Speaker 1: through museums and my goodness. And there's nothing wrong with

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Speaker 1: the well dressed curator either. Absolutely not UM, But I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about some of our archaeology all stars,

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Speaker 1: these women who really paved the way for other women

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Speaker 1: to get involved in the field. I'm also imagining, like

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Speaker 1: you know, in in your college freshman dorm room, you

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Speaker 1: had lists of these women no no bands, or like

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Speaker 1: you know John Belushina's college T shirt, you had a

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Speaker 1: poster of let's say, Amelia Edwards, the godmother of Egyptology,

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Speaker 1: who was quite a gal. Yeah, she she was around

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Speaker 1: from eighteen thirty one to nineteen eighteen. Uh. Edwards was

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Speaker 1: definitely an independent woman thanks to no one will ever

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Speaker 1: say this again in modern history. She was independent and

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Speaker 1: financially secure thanks to her career as a journalist. That

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Speaker 1: would never apply anymore anyway. She was homeschooled from a

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Speaker 1: young age by a mother who avoided teaching her housework.

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Speaker 1: Her mother had it seemed like her mother had other

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Speaker 1: plans for her. She also never married, UM and one

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Speaker 1: of her great loves was Marian North, the botanical artist

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Speaker 1: for those of you out there familiar with her work. UM,

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Speaker 1: and she was also had a long term relationship with

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Speaker 1: Lucy Renshaw identified only as l in Edwards journal UM

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Speaker 1: and who accompanied her on some of her Middle East

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Speaker 1: travels and UM she come in eighteen seventy three to

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Speaker 1: Alexandria and became an expert on local archaeology and helped

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Speaker 1: found the Egypt Exploration Fund in eighteen eighty two. Edwards

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Speaker 1: is really credited during this time that she helped found

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Speaker 1: this group UM of making archaeology accessible to the common person.

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Speaker 1: She always encouraged her students to write about archaeology in

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Speaker 1: a way that was accessible to other people, and so

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Speaker 1: her work for the fund involved raising money, writing articles,

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Speaker 1: and lecturing, and she ended up receiving honorary degrees from

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Speaker 1: Columbia University, Smith College, and the College of the Sisters

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Speaker 1: of Bethany. So clearly people out there were like, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess she's smart, even though she's a girl. I

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Speaker 1: guess we'll give her the stuff whatever. Whatever. Another notable

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Speaker 1: lady we should talk about, UM who teams up with

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Speaker 1: her husband in this case um Jane dou Lafoy. She

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Speaker 1: became known for her cross dressing so that she could

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Speaker 1: fight in the Franco Prussian War of eighteen seventy and

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Speaker 1: she and her husband Marcel wanted to obviously after the

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Speaker 1: war ended, they wanted to reach the legendary site of Susa,

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Speaker 1: east of the Tigris River and home to an ancient city,

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Speaker 1: and hundreds of people flocked to help them excavate this site. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Do Lafoy is really interesting. There's a picture of her

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Speaker 1: in in the book Ladies of the Field, and she's

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Speaker 1: kind of turned to the side in profile. She has

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Speaker 1: her hair chopped off, she's wearing men's clothing, and she

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Speaker 1: she has a striking resemblance. Might I say to one

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Speaker 1: young uh Dustin Hoffman? Really yeah, but um yeah, she

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Speaker 1: and her husband went trapsing around the Middle East. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they loved it. She she really was dedicated to the

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Speaker 1: whole idea of and covering this city in Susa. And

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Speaker 1: they did. They found a lot. They found like fifty

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Speaker 1: four boxes worth, big large crates, not just boxes worth

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Speaker 1: of stuff that they ended up taking back with them

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Speaker 1: to France. And she she was no shrinking violet. She

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Speaker 1: wasn't just sitting back, you know, being fanned with palm fronds. Now,

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Speaker 1: she was overseeing the dig. She had people reporting to

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Speaker 1: her aunt. She oversaw every painstaking detail of excavating. Basically,

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Speaker 1: they were enameled bricks that were part of giant freezes

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Speaker 1: in the Palace of Darius, which was quite a big find.

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Speaker 1: And just to point out what a celebrity she became

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Speaker 1: at the time, um After coming back Stateside, the New

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Speaker 1: York Times reported that she received the authorization of the

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Speaker 1: government to appear in public in costume because she was

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Speaker 1: so well known at this point. For her what would

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Speaker 1: be considered cross dressing, which really today would probably just

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Speaker 1: be like wearing slacks in a shirt, right exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the the it would just look like Dustin Hoffman. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: young Dustin Hoffman. Um. But they point out that the

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Speaker 1: privilege of being able to wear men's clothing around in

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Speaker 1: the streets was normally reserved for the mentally ill or handy,

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Speaker 1: so this was a high honor. So it was a

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Speaker 1: high honor. And she she was pretty fashionable too. It's

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Speaker 1: not like she just wore any old pants. So so

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Speaker 1: in exchange for her doing things such as, oh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, unearthing the Palace of Darius, people were like, well, uh,

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Speaker 1: you can wear pants. How about that? How about that?

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Speaker 1: Congratulations pants? Yeah. Well it's funny because that actually her

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Speaker 1: wearing men's clothing was not just about traveling easier, It

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Speaker 1: was about safety because a lot of the places that

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Speaker 1: she traveled in the Middle East she would not have

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Speaker 1: been able to pass through safely as a woman. And

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Speaker 1: and she even had to shave her head at one

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Speaker 1: point because the lights got so bad. Yeah, so they

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Speaker 1: got to somewhere were they They got to some palace

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Speaker 1: and the ruler was like, no, you're not a woman.

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Speaker 1: I don't She had a shaved head, was wearing pants.

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Speaker 1: He wouldn't believe her. Well, what about Kathleen Kenyon, what

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Speaker 1: can you tell me about her? Well, Kathleen Kenyon is

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Speaker 1: very famous. She actually and start out with any interest,

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Speaker 1: in particular in archaeology. Her interest was sparked when she

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Speaker 1: joined Gertrude Kayton Thompson on the nine All Women Excavation

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Speaker 1: of Great Zimbabwe as a photographer, and she went on

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Speaker 1: to work at Roman Britain's third largest city, vrule Meum,

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Speaker 1: vrule Meum. It's one of yes with with Sir Mortimer Wheeler,

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Speaker 1: and together they developed the Wheeler Kenyon method, which still

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Speaker 1: influences excavation methods, and it had to do with stratigraphic analysis.

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Speaker 1: Instead of just digging any old place, you would pay

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Speaker 1: attention to the strata of the dirt, the layers of

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Speaker 1: vertical layers of the dirt. Well done. And just for

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Speaker 1: a few examples of some things that she dug up,

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Speaker 1: perhaps using that very Wheeler Kenyan method. Just before World

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Speaker 1: War Two, she excavated the Jewelry Wall at Lester, whose

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Speaker 1: public baths are a rare example of civil Roman architecture.

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Speaker 1: And she was also the first acting director of the

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Speaker 1: Institute of Archaeology of the University College of London, founded

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Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty seven to provide instruction in proper excavation techniques.

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Speaker 1: And what Kenyan is possibly the most famous for is

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Speaker 1: her excavation of the ancient city of Jericho, which she

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Speaker 1: uncovered the first walled city full with houses and courtyards

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Speaker 1: dating back to the Neolithic era. So this was a

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Speaker 1: huge fine because one area they found it was like

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Speaker 1: this huge staircase along the wall. It made me think

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Speaker 1: of Monty pythons for the life of Brian, that whole thing. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: it's older than some of the pyramids, so yeah, good job.

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Kenyon. Another woman that we have to talk about

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Speaker 1: is Hannah Marie Wormington. She was around from nineteen fourteen

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Speaker 1: to nineteen She was the first woman admitted to the

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Speaker 1: Department of Anthropology at Harvard who also graduated technically. She

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Speaker 1: was the second woman admitted overall, but she was admitted

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Speaker 1: to Harvard in nineteen thirty seven and received her pH

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Speaker 1: d in nineteen fifty for and according to her obituary

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Speaker 1: in the New York Times, Warmington's was an expert on

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Speaker 1: the Paleo Indian period and she was affiliated with the

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Speaker 1: Denver Museum of Natural History for nearly sixty year of

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Speaker 1: and to around out this uh this list of notable

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Speaker 1: female archaeologists, we have Lithuanian Maria Gim Buddhists whose focus

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Speaker 1: was on Indo European studies in the Bronze and Neolithic periods.

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Speaker 1: And she was notable because of the way that she

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Speaker 1: brought together linguistic and archaeological knowledge right and this she

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Speaker 1: took her study of basically in her in her biography

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Speaker 1: they talk about how it's sort of inappropriate for archaeologists

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Speaker 1: to get too deep into people's culture, maybe to assume

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Speaker 1: too much about their religion and whatnot, but she kept

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Speaker 1: finding all of those goddess figures, you know, the round

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Speaker 1: women or whatever. And she she basically developed this, this

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Speaker 1: theory of the goddess, and she saw the email form

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Speaker 1: rendered in thousands of images and said that it reflected

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Speaker 1: the centrality of women in religious and cultural life. Basically

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Speaker 1: said like, look, all these people were worshiping women. And

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Speaker 1: not only was her theory a big deal, and her

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Speaker 1: two books on the goddess were a big deal, but

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Speaker 1: her whole theory became such a huge deal to feminists

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Speaker 1: and women and environmentalists and nature worshipers and uh, the

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Speaker 1: primordial deity for a Paleolithic and Neolithic ancestors in her biography,

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Speaker 1: says was female, reflecting the sovereignty of motherhood. And I

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Speaker 1: can imagine, I mean, if she's coming out with this

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Speaker 1: in the mid twentieth century, it probably was a pretty

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Speaker 1: revolutionary idea for people who probably conceptualized a lot of

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Speaker 1: times we conceptualized in the Western world, at least in

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Speaker 1: Judeo Christianity conceptualizes uh, you know, gods as masculine. So

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Speaker 1: that was probably pretty groundbreaking at the time. Um. And

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Speaker 1: one final name who will be much more familiar probable

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Speaker 1: way to listeners is She was not an archaeologist, but

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Speaker 1: archaeology was highly influential for her because her husband, Um,

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Speaker 1: was an archaeologist in the Middle East. Agatha Christie, the

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Speaker 1: famous mystery writer. She spent thirty years assisting her husband's

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Speaker 1: work in the Middle East, UM, and she would write

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Speaker 1: her books in between. And hence you have archaeology themed

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Speaker 1: Murder on the Orient Express and Death on the Nile Goath.

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Speaker 1: So those are some names that I bet a lot

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Speaker 1: of listeners haven't heard from. And I really, really really

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Speaker 1: hope that we have some archaeologists out there listening. And Um,

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Speaker 1: if it's male archaeologist, you have women working with you,

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Speaker 1: women in the field, what's it like? Very curious to know,

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Speaker 1: because I feel like we, you know, we don't really

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Speaker 1: talk about archaeology all that much. I mean, we'll hear

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Speaker 1: about King tut every now and then. But this idea

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Speaker 1: of you know, figuring out how the discipline even came

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Speaker 1: to be and women's role in it is a pretty

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Speaker 1: interesting stuff. Yeah, exactly. So I'm glad that you wanted

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Speaker 1: to be one as a child so that I could

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Speaker 1: learn more. And I just wanted one final thing about

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Speaker 1: my freshman year experience. So I so badly wanted to

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Speaker 1: do this. I thought it was going to be so cool,

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Speaker 1: and I remember telling my my slightly stuck up roommate

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Speaker 1: about it, and she was like, I mean, what is

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Speaker 1: possibly left to find? I I just want everyone to

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Speaker 1: let that soak in. She actually said what is left

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Speaker 1: to find? And so every time I see something on

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Speaker 1: the news about something being discovered somewhere, I think of her.

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Speaker 1: You know what you should have said, there's space, space archaeology, excavation,

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Speaker 1: moon castles. So now that you're thinking about moon castles,

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Speaker 1: send us your thoughts. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com

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Speaker 1: is where you can send your letters. You can also

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Speaker 1: head over to Facebook or tweet us at Mom's Stuff podcast.

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Speaker 1: And in the meantime, got a couple of letters here

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Speaker 1: for you. We've got one from Zoe and this is

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Speaker 1: in response to our episode on prom. Zoe writes, I'm

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Speaker 1: still in high school and have not yet experienced the prom,

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Speaker 1: although in my school it's just called grad. I live

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Speaker 1: in a very rural community in Canada, and most of

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Speaker 1: the people at school are redneck farm kids. From what

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Speaker 1: I gather, our graduation banquet is going to be a

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Speaker 1: campfire barbecue in the woods somewhere, and the dance will

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Speaker 1: probably end up at the rodeo grounds. One of my

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Speaker 1: friends was actually looking up camouflage print dresses. Another great

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Speaker 1: plan that I've heard from the two boys in my

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Speaker 1: classes that they're going to wear car heart farm clothes

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Speaker 1: and show up in a grain struck or a tractor,

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Speaker 1: which I think is way cooler than a stretch hummer.

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Speaker 1: Limo and Zoe, I do agree with that. I find

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Speaker 1: it really annoying how prov is marketed to teams through movies,

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Speaker 1: TV and team romance novels, where it's blasphemy to make

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Speaker 1: light of the prom. You can easily tell that it

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Speaker 1: is really affected team culture. By the way the majority

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Speaker 1: of the girls in my class object to these ideas,

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Speaker 1: they obviously spect prom to be the super romantic, extravagant

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Speaker 1: event that they have seen and read about. I personally

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Speaker 1: think that I'm going to side with the boys, don't

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Speaker 1: take it so seriously, and just to have some fun

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Speaker 1: while it lasts. And this is from Don about our

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Speaker 1: episode on having the Talk with your kids. She said

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Speaker 1: that she listened intently to that episode because I have

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Speaker 1: a nine year old son who will soon be ready

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Speaker 1: to know the truth about how babies are made. He

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Speaker 1: is known for a while that moms have an egg

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Speaker 1: and deaths have a seed, which come together to make

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Speaker 1: a baby. When he was seven, he said, yes, I

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Speaker 1: know that, but how did the transfer take place? He's

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Speaker 1: very detail oriented. We told him he'd have to wait

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Speaker 1: until he was older to find out the answer. There's

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Speaker 1: some wonderful books I'd like to recommend to listeners, which

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Speaker 1: I learned about in library school. Robbie Harris has several

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Speaker 1: books that explain things to kids in a clear way,

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Speaker 1: with lots of great illustrations and humorous discussion between a

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Speaker 1: bird and a bee that lighten things up. It's not

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