WEBVTT - CLASSIC: Interview: Who Killed JFK? with Rob Reiner 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:06.240 Fellow conspiracy realist, we are returning to you with a classic. 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:12.320 We usually publish a classic episode or an interview that 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:18.640 we feel is relevant or worth your time. As many 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:22.800 of us know in the audience tonight, our good friend 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:28.240 Rob Reiner has passed away as well as his spouse. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:33.440 We want to respect their memory and the privacy of 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:37.360 their family at this time, but we also want to 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:41.720 hold space for just the excellent work he did earlier 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:44.720 on a show about the mystery of JFK. 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.440 Yeah, that's right. He and his wife, Michelle Singer Reiner 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:53.760 were discovered deceased in their home and it's an ongoing investigation. 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.160 Does seem like there's definitely foul plays, so we want 0:00:56.600 --> 0:00:58.400 delve into that aspect of it. But we just found 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:02.040 him to be such a lovely jenner, us intelligent and 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:05.440 kind man in this conversation, and I think we all 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.560 had our you know, starstruck moment with him, as his 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.520 work has loomed large in all of our lives, and 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:14.880 it was just so neat to meet somebody who absolutely 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.440 delivers on being what you exactly what you hope they would. 0:01:18.240 --> 0:01:23.520 Be, absolutely And there are details that Rob and the 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:27.120 entire team uncovered while they were making Who Killed JFK 0:01:27.200 --> 0:01:29.399 that we don't even get into in this episode, fully 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:31.600 because it was coming out at the time that we 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.080 recorded this interview with him. But there is stuff in 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.880 there that I had never heard before. Specific names, locations, 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:42.319 you know, all kinds of stuff. 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:48.360 Co hosted by Sola Dad O'Brien. Who Killed JFK was 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:54.400 really close to Rob and it's something that he had 0:01:54.480 --> 0:02:00.920 spent decades thinking about investigating, and it did just such 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:04.920 a phenomenal job with his team. We fanboy a little 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:09.560 bit in this interview, to be fair, but I think 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:15.480 we were all just unanimously so fundamentally impressed that you 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:21.160 could be a guy this cool and this accurate for. 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:23.200 Sure, And so you know, if you're looking for a 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.520 way to honor his memory, I know he would love 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.560 it if you listened to that serious because it was 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.680 something that, to y'all's point, had been ges dating, you know, 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.320 in him for a long, long long time. And also 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.320 check out the sequel to Spinal Tap, which he hipped 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:39.800 us to the fact that he was working on that 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.360 when we all off, Mike told him how much we 0:02:42.400 --> 0:02:44.480 loved that movie. It's out now in streaming. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.640 So without further ado, let's hear from Rob. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.920 From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:57.320 riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.400 learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:08.040 production of iHeart Radio. 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:14.799 Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:15.920 my name is Noel. 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.840 They call me Ben. We're joined with our guest super producer. 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.840 Back to the freight train, Williams. Most importantly, you are you. 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:26.639 You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:30.280 want you to know. As you are listening to this 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.760 on the day this podcast publishes, it is an infamous 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:40.480 anniversary in the United States. Sixty years ago, the President 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:45.960 of the US John Fitzgerald Kennedy was assassinated November twenty second, 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:51.480 nineteen sixty three, riding in a presidential motorcade in Dallas, Texas. 0:03:51.520 --> 0:03:55.520 The tragedy of this day fundamentally altered the course of 0:03:55.560 --> 0:04:00.120 American and indeed global history. Decades later, the world and 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.560 tire still has questions about what led to this murder 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:08.880 and how it occurred. We've asked these questions previously in 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.480 Stuff they Don't Want you to Know, but tonight we 0:04:11.680 --> 0:04:15.880 are immensely fortunate to be joined with the legendary director, 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:20.160 the actor, the activist, the writer now podcaster Rob Reiner, 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:24.479 creator and co host of Who Killed JFK? Thank you 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.080 for joining us, Rob, It is a profound honor. 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.760 Oh thank you, Ben. This so sweet to you. Thanks 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:31.320 for having me. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:33.440 Can I just get my fanboy thing out of the 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:35.400 way really quick? But this is Spinal Tap is my 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:38.039 favorite movie of all time, and that force everyone in 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.760 my life to watch it while I literally tear up 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.080 because it's very nice and hilarious and it's just everything 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:45.640 I love about rock and roll. It's so good. Well, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:46.280 I hear you're work. 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:51.120 It'll it'll make you feel good that we're now engaged 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.880 in the filming a sequel. We're going to do it. 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.720 It's the first time in forty years. We came up 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.479 with an ida and the four of us are going 0:04:59.520 --> 0:05:02.719 to get out there and and make a sequel to 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.479 Spinal Tape. Take it to eleven. 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.760 The three of us are musicians and uh we we've 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.479 you know, got video degrees and everything, so we we 0:05:13.640 --> 0:05:16.080 just are right in that exact place where this is 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.880 spinal like where Spinal Tap just is, like I don't 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:20.520 know it's a mecha. 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:24.120 Saloom's large And I just wrapped up a podcast documentary 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:26.760 about the Stones in seventy two, and I had a 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.000 lot of tape I was working with from them from 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:31.719 those days, and I realized, I think you were doing 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:34.800 their voices. I think the spinal tap guys are the 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:38.640 Stones circa seventy two, with their soft spoken, little British 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:41.360 little something to it. Maybe I'm wrong, but. 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.360 In the film, there's a fine line between stupid and clever, 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:50.400 and we try, we try to hit that line. 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:54.480 And isn't that Isn't that also in some ways part 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.359 of the discourse that has surrounded uh, the allegations of 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.800 conspiracy in the JFK assassination. 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:06.800 You know, look at that segue. Wow, I gotta I 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:11.400 gotta put a neck brace on uh and call my 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.400 insurance agent because. 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.240 He's got a point, though, Rob stupid and clever, that 0:06:17.240 --> 0:06:19.520 that's something that we see a lot with conspiracy stuff, 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:22.279 because yeah, that's true. Maybe clever is a bit of 0:06:22.279 --> 0:06:24.920 a misnomer, but it's all about like how close are 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:28.640 there facts involved? Is there some logical reasoning behind it? 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:30.120 Or are people just passing the time? 0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:35.400 Right? Right? No, you're You're exactly right, because the name, 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:40.520 the words conspiracy theory have gotten a weird take now 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:45.080 because everybody you know who's aspiring to you know, QAnon 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:50.560 or disinformation or they're going on wacky websites and things. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.920 Anybody who talks about conspiracy theory has got a tinfoil 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.520 hat and you know, is running around, you know, spotting 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:03.520 UFOs all over the place. But there are actual conspiracies 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:08.120 that actually happened, and this is one of them. And 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:12.560 the podcast that we do Who Killed JFK? That I 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:17.440 do with Solidad O'Brien is the deepest dive and the 0:07:17.440 --> 0:07:21.840 most comprehensive look at that conspiracy and how it happened. 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:25.200 And you know, as we say in the podcast, it's 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.600 the greatest murder mystery in the history of America. Nothing 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:35.679 like it has ever happened before. And the America was traumatized. 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:41.920 There was a concentrated trauma put at the heart of 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.960 America at that point, and people who were alive at 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.120 the time will never get over it. It was a 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:52.960 collective trauma that gripped the entire country and we're still 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.720 feeling the effects of it today. 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.760 And that note about never getting over it, there's something 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:07.600 there's something poetic with the beginning of episode one. I 0:08:07.600 --> 0:08:11.200 think maybe we also before we start with the first 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.080 episode of Who Killed JFK. Let's travel back, if it's 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.640 all right, to your experience to the moment the day 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:23.080 of the assassination. Again, it's November twenty second, nineteen sixty three, 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:27.160 just a few days before Thanksgiving. You are, I believe, 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:33.280 sixteen years old. Could you paint the picture for us 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:35.439 and for our listeners of that experience. 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.440 Yes, I mean, anybody who was alive at that time 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:43.079 and was aware knows exactly where they were when they 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:46.199 heard that news. You can talk to anybody, they'll tell 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.960 you exactly where they were and what was happening. I 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:50.920 was sixteen, as you said, I was in high school. 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:54.760 I was in my physics class, and I'll never forget 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.640 a student walked in whispered into the teacher's ear, and 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:02.680 he turned to us and said, I have some terrible news, 0:09:03.640 --> 0:09:07.760 and he related to us what had happened to the president, 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:12.920 and we were all just stunned and shocked. We were 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.560 sent home from school. Everybody was sent home, and we 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:20.760 turned on our televisions and we watched non stop a 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:25.040 television on the reports up until and I was one 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.600 of the people who watched the person who was accused 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:34.040 of killing President Kennedy, Lee Harvey Oswald. I watched him 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:39.360 get assassinated on live television. I mean it actually happened. 0:09:39.360 --> 0:09:42.079 I watched this man. We found out his name was 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:46.079 Jack Ruby, who's a local nightclub owner of a place 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.280 called the Carousel Nightclub. He went into the Dallas police station, 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.120 drew a gun and stood right in front of Lee 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.240 Harvey Oswald and shot him to death. And for many 0:09:55.280 --> 0:09:58.680 of us, that was the moment at which we said, 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:01.680 what the heck is going on? The man who has 0:10:01.720 --> 0:10:06.600 supposedly killed the president is now being murdered himself. Why 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.520 is that happening? Who's doing this? Who's behind all this? 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.199 You're talking to three guys who were born in the eighties, 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.600 so you know, when we first encounter this, we get 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:18.920 to an age where, you know, our parents decide we 0:10:18.920 --> 0:10:22.280 can learn about the JFK assassination, or our schools decide 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.920 we are allowed to learn about it. We have all 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.199 of this information already built in, right, but in going 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:31.240 back and listening to Who Killed JFK this podcast, we're 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:34.520 being presented with this information as it was happening, right, 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.080 So we get that experience that you're sharing with us now, Rob. 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.360 And one of the things you mentioned early on is 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:44.440 how comedians like Mort Sahl and Dick Gregory were kind 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:48.599 of they're using their material as a way for America 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.560 to begin to process this information, right, Yes, Yes, And 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.640 what's interesting about that is these guys were both brilliant 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.440 social and political setu arterists. 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:06.880 These were the most incisive, well observed type people who 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.920 looked at American life and observed it in the most 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:14.480 intelligent and fine way. And when they diverged from their 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:18.200 normal routines. In the case of Mortsaul, I was nineteen 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:22.440 when I watched him go. I was opening for The 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:27.319 Hungry Eye for a singer named Carmen McCrae who was 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.560 a great jazz singer. And when I would finish my 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.120 set with my partner Larry Bishop, we'd go into this 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.280 smaller room where Dick, where mort Saul was not doing 0:11:36.320 --> 0:11:40.840 his normal routine. He was only talking about the Kennedy 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.719 assassination and the Warren Commission report on the assassination had 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.480 come out and he was attacking it. He was saying, 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:52.439 it's full of lies. It doesn't make any sense. And 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:56.240 that and people like Dick Gregory who went on Geraldo 0:11:56.360 --> 0:12:00.240 Rivera's show and for the first time they exposed the 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:04.360 Zapruder film, which was the film that the only film 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:08.520 that really captures the assassination by a guy named Abraham Zapruder, 0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:14.079 was a local dressmaker. Those people, those two comedians, really 0:12:14.400 --> 0:12:18.839 started the conversation moving forward. People started getting engaged, and 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.920 those people could draw your attention. They were great speakers, 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:27.240 They were great incisive commentators on the times. When I 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:31.080 saw Mark Saul, I started really getting into it. I 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.440 read a book called Rush to Judgment by a writer 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:41.280 named Mark Lane, and he completely disbanded the Warren Commission 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:46.840 and pointed out the inconsistencies, the things that were left out, 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:51.480 the lies. And you started getting into realizing that this 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:56.000 was not only a cover up by the government of 0:12:56.040 --> 0:13:01.560 what had happened, but it uncovered as you track it 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:07.920 over the years, this conspiracy that American forces got together 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.600 to kill an American president in broad daylight on an 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.360 American street. And the more you look into it, the 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.000 more disturbing it is. And you know, I was saying that, 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.120 you know, you look at something like this, and that 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:27.319 sixty years has gone by, and unless you're following it closely, 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.640 there are revelations that come out in drips and drabs, 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.800 and when they come out, unless you're following it all, 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.559 you don't know what that has to do with anything else. 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:42.480 So this podcast what it does is it takes sixty 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.240 years of revelations, puts it all in one place and 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.440 hopefully makes it understandable to people and completely you know, 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.800 fills in the puzzle of what actually happened on that. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.800 Deckh And this is something that I think is key 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.600 the contextualization. We were talking a little bit air rub. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:05.760 People who are somewhat familiar with the JFK assassination and 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.480 the ins and outs of it may be surprised to 0:14:08.600 --> 0:14:13.560 learn that documents pertaining to it were classified until quite 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:18.520 recently and new information begins to emerge. Who killed JFK? 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:24.200 Does a phenomenal job of connecting some of these puzzle pieces, 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:28.720 And already you've mentioned some very bright points about this 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:35.320 that remain controversial, especially the Warren Commission, which I think 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:40.760 you do a supreme and scrupulous job of pointing out 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:48.479 some possible conflicts of interest possible Yeah, Okay, well, guys, Rob. 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:53.080 Here's what's interesting about this. Yeah, there were huge conflicts 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.800 of interests. First of all, there's still almost five thousand 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:59.200 documents that have not been released to the public, and 0:14:59.760 --> 0:15:02.960 you know, we may never see those documents. But the 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.000 conflict of venters that you're talking about, and there were 0:15:06.000 --> 0:15:10.400 two investigations. People have to understand. There are two official 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:15.120 government investigation of the assassination of JFK. The first was 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.720 the Warren Commission, which came out in nineteen sixty four, 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.840 and the second one was done by a group called 0:15:21.840 --> 0:15:25.000 the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and now it came 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:27.160 out in the mid seventies. It came out to actually 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:30.560 the report came out in the late seventies. Both of 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:36.240 those investigations were compromised. And the way in which that 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:41.400 happened is in the first investigation, the Warrant Commission, Lindon 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:46.480 Johnson was very concerned about things getting out that might 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:52.440 implicate the Russians or the Cubans in a way that 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:57.240 might ultimately cause a nuclear war, and he wanted to 0:15:57.280 --> 0:16:01.080 avoid that. He didn't want any information to come into 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:06.520 the investigation that would do anything but point to Lee Harvey, 0:16:06.560 --> 0:16:11.160 Oswald as a loan gunman. So what he did is 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.120 they put together this commission headed up by Chief Justice 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:18.040 Earl Warren, but his name was mostly titular in this 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:23.880 they put in charge of the gatekeeper sense of all 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:27.400 information coming from the CIA into the hands of a 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:32.440 man named Alan Dulles. Alan Dulles was the first civilian 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:39.120 head of the CIA in the nineteen forties. Now, Alan 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:42.880 Dulles was one of the architects of the Bay of 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:47.200 Pigs invasion. The Bay of Pigs invasion was an attempt 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:52.120 by the CIA to train Cuban exiles to go into 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:58.120 Cuba and overthrow Castro, who had overthrown Battista just a 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:03.760 few years prior. Alan Dulles had this plan with the CIA, 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:07.040 working with these Cuban exiles, they went into the Bay 0:17:07.040 --> 0:17:11.080 of They went into Cuba and they did invade, and 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:16.720 they thought that Kennedy would offer air support, that once 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.480 the troops got in there, they would send American planes 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.960 and they would take back Cuba. Kennedy told them before 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.960 the And by the way, Kennedy inherited this plan from 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:31.960 Eisenhower and Nixon. He was only in office for two 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.399 or three months when they when they did this. He 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:38.440 told them ahead of time, I will not send American 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:42.480 airplanes because I don't want the United States footprint. I 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:45.880 don't want to any fingerprints on to be tracked back 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:49.280 to the United States. He told them that, and Dulles said, 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:51.680 there's no way, don't worry about it. Once we get 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.280 in there, he's going to see this and he's going 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:57.120 to want to send those those airplanes. He never did, 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.360 and what happened was all the Cuban exes. They were 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.600 slaughtered on the beaches in Cuba, and it was a 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:10.880 complete and utter disaster. Months later, Kennedy fires Alan Dulles, 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:15.439 and very you know is known to have said, I 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.080 want to take the CIA and break it up into 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.680 a thousand pieces. He was furious at the CIA because 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:26.720 they were doing these covert activities without presidential approvals. I mean, 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.280 they were doing them separately and then you know, then 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:32.719 reporting back to the president. So he wanted to get 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:37.479 rid of it. He puts Johnson puts Alan Dulles in 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:41.760 charge of any information coming from the CIA into the 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:46.200 Warrant Commission, and you know, obviously nothing got in. No, 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:50.360 we didn't know, we didn't know about the CIA's connection 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:54.720 to the mafia. We didn't know about the CIA's extra 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:58.200 judicial killings of heads of state, which they did many 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:02.240 of We didn't know about out a lot of the 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:06.400 involvement with the Cubans in Cuba. We didn't know any 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:10.600 of this stuff. So Alan Dalles is compromising that. Now. 0:19:10.640 --> 0:19:14.960 The big revelation, the big, big, big revelation was in 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.920 the second investigation that was for the House Select Committee 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:23.480 on Assassinations. And we bring this up in the podcast 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:27.000 as well. And this didn't come out, This didn't come 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:31.919 out until years after the investigation. But the man put 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:36.960 in charge of being the liaison between the House Investigation 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:42.480 and the CIA was a man named George Joannedes. You've 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:44.600 never heard of his name, You don't know who he is, 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.480 but I can. What I'll tell you is George Joannedes 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:53.240 was a former CIA agent and he was the head 0:19:53.320 --> 0:20:00.280 of a counter intelligence program that developed assets, one of 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:05.959 which was Lee Harvey Oswalald. So the guy who was 0:20:07.040 --> 0:20:11.720 the gatekeeper again to the CIA was the very guy 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:15.520 who they wanted to who they should have questioned. We 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:20.280 interviewed Robert Blakey, who was the counsel to the House 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.280 Select Committee. He had no idea that this is what 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.200 Joe and Edes did. And when he found out many 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:29.200 years later, he was furious. He said, if I had 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.960 known then what I knew now, I would have put 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.520 Joe and Edies on the stand. He was the answer 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:38.199 to many of our questions of how the CIA was 0:20:38.280 --> 0:20:43.320 involved in the assassination. So you know, there you have 0:20:43.440 --> 0:20:49.199 two big pieces of information there, separated by many, many years, 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:52.399 and we try to put it all together in one place. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:56.840 And there's also the question a lot of our fellow 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:59.920 listeners will be asking, which is is there such thing 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:01.760 as a former CIA agent? 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.360 It makes me think, no, there's there's no such thing. 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.280 I mean a CIA agent. 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:07.879 Uh. 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.800 You you you you may not be active in the 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.800 way you were when you were being paid by the agency, 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:20.000 but you have security clearance and uh you have it 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.320 for your life. And you you know, it was an 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:26.359 interesting thing recently with a Trump I think try to 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:30.280 strip uh? And did I think strip uh John Brennan 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.720 of his security clearance because you didn't like what John 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:37.200 Brennan was saying about him and about his uh, you know, 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:42.480 his involvement in January sixth. So yes, you're you're always connected. 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:43.679 Once you once you're there. 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.160 Even about the clearances. I mean the relationships, these lifelong 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.480 relationships and contacts that you can leverage even minus the 0:21:51.560 --> 0:21:54.119 security clearances. Correct, I mean I think that stuff is 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:55.160 money in the bank. 0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.399 Yeah, No, that that's that's true power. 0:21:57.880 --> 0:21:59.840 Just a real quick insert here for anybody that wants 0:21:59.840 --> 0:22:02.280 to deep down the rabbit hole. I'm looking at a 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:07.560 declassified document here that describes mister Johan Ed's work from 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:11.600 December nineteen sixty two to April nineteen sixty four, and 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.240 it describes him as the case officer for the Cuban 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:20.520 Exile Group Directorio Revolutioncenario as Study and teal is known 0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:20.960 as student. 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:26.440 Yeah, it's a student directed anti Castro group. 0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:32.040 And there's there's something else too. And I know people 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:35.000 are yelling at their phones right now or however you 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.560 listen to shows the House Select Committee, you have this, 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:44.399 you have this terrifying observation rob in who killed JFK. 0:22:44.880 --> 0:22:49.920 Where you say, look, these are two fundamentally flawed investigations 0:22:50.359 --> 0:22:54.480 and they reach two very different conclusions. And one thing, 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:58.640 one thing that I think stands out for people were 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:02.720 who were born after that assassination is to read the conclusion. 0:23:02.800 --> 0:23:06.040 So the House Select Committee, and see that they have 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:11.200 dropped the C word. They have said the assassination seemed 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:13.359 to be the result of a I believe the quote 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:19.440 is probable conspiracy. Y, yes, I mean the Warren Commission 0:23:19.520 --> 0:23:23.199 basically said that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman, 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:24.440 did it all by himself. 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.879 The House Select Committee said it was probably a conspiracy 0:23:28.280 --> 0:23:30.879 based on all the investigation they had done, but they 0:23:30.960 --> 0:23:34.440 didn't say who was involved in the conspiracy. They never 0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:38.080 could get that far because of this guy, George Joannides. 0:23:39.040 --> 0:23:42.720 They didn't name the mob, they didn't name the CIA, 0:23:42.840 --> 0:23:45.440 they didn't talk about the Cuban exilese. They just said, 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:49.040 based on the information they had, it was probably a conspiracy. 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:53.840 So you have two diametrically opposed conclusions, and that those 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:55.360 are the two government. 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:59.399 Records now and Warren Commission is nineteen sixty four, so 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:03.200 very soon after the assassination, and the House Select Committee 0:24:03.200 --> 0:24:07.520 isn't until nineteen seventy six. So just imagine, like again, 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:12.439 already we've got decades separating, a decade separating these two things. 0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:17.440 And you wonder why Americans in general, you're talking about 0:24:17.480 --> 0:24:20.800 drips and drabs information coming out from the very beginning. 0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.639 It's like we're getting little bits and pieces right, and 0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.120 I swear it feels like it's designed that way. 0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:29.840 Yeah, well, I don't know design, but if you think 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:37.080 about you mentioned Dick Gregory. The House Select Committee was 0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:43.960 born out of an investigation by Idaho Senator Frank Church. 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:46.480 They had a committee there set up in the Senate 0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:50.160 and that was based on information that was coming out 0:24:51.119 --> 0:24:53.359 that the CIA was doing all kinds of things that 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.600 they were not aware of. And it came out as 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:00.840 a revelation during that that they were doing these extra 0:25:00.960 --> 0:25:03.960 judicial killings, that other things were going on. And then 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:08.280 Dick Gregory went on The Heraldo Show and they showed 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:11.320 the Zapruder film for the first time. Now, the Zapruder 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:17.200 film was, you know, the Warren Commission saw it. The 0:25:17.320 --> 0:25:20.960 public had not seen it. Nobody still need photographs, just 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.520 some still photographs, but we didn't have a context and 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:26.600 we didn't see it. When that came out and the 0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:31.960 Church Committee started revealing what they knew, that gave birth 0:25:32.160 --> 0:25:34.840 to the House Select Committee. And that was, like you say, 0:25:35.359 --> 0:25:39.240 well over ten years after the Warren Commission came out. 0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:43.159 So now all of a sudden, you have another flashpoint now, 0:25:43.440 --> 0:25:48.240 when Oliver Stone made his film a JFK in nineteen 0:25:48.359 --> 0:25:51.480 ninety two or ninety one, I believe it was that 0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:56.840 also triggered the JFK Records Act and the creation of 0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:02.800 the Assassination Records Review Board, which was another investigation. So 0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:06.120 these things are separated by many, many years, and during 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:10.200 each of these investigations, more and more and more information 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:13.800