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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist, we are returning to you with a classic.

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Speaker 1: We usually publish a classic episode or an interview that

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Speaker 1: we feel is relevant or worth your time. As many

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Speaker 1: of us know in the audience tonight, our good friend

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Speaker 1: Rob Reiner has passed away as well as his spouse.

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Speaker 1: We want to respect their memory and the privacy of

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Speaker 1: their family at this time, but we also want to

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Speaker 1: hold space for just the excellent work he did earlier

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Speaker 1: on a show about the mystery of JFK.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. He and his wife, Michelle Singer Reiner

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Speaker 2: were discovered deceased in their home and it's an ongoing investigation.

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Speaker 2: Does seem like there's definitely foul plays, so we want

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Speaker 2: delve into that aspect of it. But we just found

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Speaker 2: him to be such a lovely jenner, us intelligent and

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Speaker 2: kind man in this conversation, and I think we all

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Speaker 2: had our you know, starstruck moment with him, as his

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Speaker 2: work has loomed large in all of our lives, and

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Speaker 2: it was just so neat to meet somebody who absolutely

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Speaker 2: delivers on being what you exactly what you hope they would.

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Speaker 3: Be, absolutely And there are details that Rob and the

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Speaker 3: entire team uncovered while they were making Who Killed JFK

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Speaker 3: that we don't even get into in this episode, fully

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Speaker 3: because it was coming out at the time that we

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Speaker 3: recorded this interview with him. But there is stuff in

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Speaker 3: there that I had never heard before. Specific names, locations,

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Speaker 3: you know, all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: Co hosted by Sola Dad O'Brien. Who Killed JFK was

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Speaker 1: really close to Rob and it's something that he had

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Speaker 1: spent decades thinking about investigating, and it did just such

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Speaker 1: a phenomenal job with his team. We fanboy a little

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Speaker 1: bit in this interview, to be fair, but I think

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Speaker 1: we were all just unanimously so fundamentally impressed that you

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Speaker 1: could be a guy this cool and this accurate for.

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Speaker 2: Sure, And so you know, if you're looking for a

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Speaker 2: way to honor his memory, I know he would love

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Speaker 2: it if you listened to that serious because it was

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Speaker 2: something that, to y'all's point, had been ges dating, you know,

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Speaker 2: in him for a long, long long time. And also

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Speaker 2: check out the sequel to Spinal Tap, which he hipped

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Speaker 2: us to the fact that he was working on that

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Speaker 2: when we all off, Mike told him how much we

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Speaker 2: loved that movie. It's out now in streaming.

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Speaker 1: So without further ado, let's hear from Rob.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 3: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We're joined with our guest super producer.

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Speaker 1: Back to the freight train, Williams. Most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. As you are listening to this

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Speaker 1: on the day this podcast publishes, it is an infamous

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Speaker 1: anniversary in the United States. Sixty years ago, the President

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Speaker 1: of the US John Fitzgerald Kennedy was assassinated November twenty second,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty three, riding in a presidential motorcade in Dallas, Texas.

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Speaker 1: The tragedy of this day fundamentally altered the course of

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Speaker 1: American and indeed global history. Decades later, the world and

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Speaker 1: tire still has questions about what led to this murder

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Speaker 1: and how it occurred. We've asked these questions previously in

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Speaker 1: Stuff they Don't Want you to Know, but tonight we

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Speaker 1: are immensely fortunate to be joined with the legendary director,

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Speaker 1: the actor, the activist, the writer now podcaster Rob Reiner,

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Speaker 1: creator and co host of Who Killed JFK? Thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining us, Rob, It is a profound honor.

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Speaker 5: Oh thank you, Ben. This so sweet to you. Thanks

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Speaker 5: for having me.

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Speaker 2: Can I just get my fanboy thing out of the

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Speaker 2: way really quick? But this is Spinal Tap is my

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Speaker 2: favorite movie of all time, and that force everyone in

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Speaker 2: my life to watch it while I literally tear up

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Speaker 2: because it's very nice and hilarious and it's just everything

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Speaker 2: I love about rock and roll. It's so good. Well,

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Speaker 2: I hear you're work.

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Speaker 5: It'll it'll make you feel good that we're now engaged

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Speaker 5: in the filming a sequel. We're going to do it.

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Speaker 5: It's the first time in forty years. We came up

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Speaker 5: with an ida and the four of us are going

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Speaker 5: to get out there and and make a sequel to

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Speaker 5: Spinal Tape. Take it to eleven.

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Speaker 3: The three of us are musicians and uh we we've

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Speaker 3: you know, got video degrees and everything, so we we

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Speaker 3: just are right in that exact place where this is

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Speaker 3: spinal like where Spinal Tap just is, like I don't

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Speaker 3: know it's a mecha.

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Speaker 2: Saloom's large And I just wrapped up a podcast documentary

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Speaker 2: about the Stones in seventy two, and I had a

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Speaker 2: lot of tape I was working with from them from

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Speaker 2: those days, and I realized, I think you were doing

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Speaker 2: their voices. I think the spinal tap guys are the

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Speaker 2: Stones circa seventy two, with their soft spoken, little British

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Speaker 2: little something to it. Maybe I'm wrong, but.

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Speaker 5: In the film, there's a fine line between stupid and clever,

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Speaker 5: and we try, we try to hit that line.

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Speaker 1: And isn't that Isn't that also in some ways part

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Speaker 1: of the discourse that has surrounded uh, the allegations of

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Speaker 1: conspiracy in the JFK assassination.

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Speaker 5: You know, look at that segue. Wow, I gotta I

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Speaker 5: gotta put a neck brace on uh and call my

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Speaker 5: insurance agent because.

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Speaker 2: He's got a point, though, Rob stupid and clever, that

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Speaker 2: that's something that we see a lot with conspiracy stuff,

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Speaker 2: because yeah, that's true. Maybe clever is a bit of

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Speaker 2: a misnomer, but it's all about like how close are

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Speaker 2: there facts involved? Is there some logical reasoning behind it?

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Speaker 2: Or are people just passing the time?

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Speaker 5: Right? Right? No, you're You're exactly right, because the name,

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Speaker 5: the words conspiracy theory have gotten a weird take now

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Speaker 5: because everybody you know who's aspiring to you know, QAnon

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Speaker 5: or disinformation or they're going on wacky websites and things.

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Speaker 5: Anybody who talks about conspiracy theory has got a tinfoil

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Speaker 5: hat and you know, is running around, you know, spotting

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Speaker 5: UFOs all over the place. But there are actual conspiracies

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Speaker 5: that actually happened, and this is one of them. And

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Speaker 5: the podcast that we do Who Killed JFK? That I

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Speaker 5: do with Solidad O'Brien is the deepest dive and the

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Speaker 5: most comprehensive look at that conspiracy and how it happened.

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Speaker 5: And you know, as we say in the podcast, it's

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Speaker 5: the greatest murder mystery in the history of America. Nothing

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Speaker 5: like it has ever happened before. And the America was traumatized.

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Speaker 5: There was a concentrated trauma put at the heart of

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Speaker 5: America at that point, and people who were alive at

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Speaker 5: the time will never get over it. It was a

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Speaker 5: collective trauma that gripped the entire country and we're still

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Speaker 5: feeling the effects of it today.

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Speaker 1: And that note about never getting over it, there's something

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Speaker 1: there's something poetic with the beginning of episode one. I

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Speaker 1: think maybe we also before we start with the first

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Speaker 1: episode of Who Killed JFK. Let's travel back, if it's

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Speaker 1: all right, to your experience to the moment the day

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Speaker 1: of the assassination. Again, it's November twenty second, nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 1: just a few days before Thanksgiving. You are, I believe,

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Speaker 1: sixteen years old. Could you paint the picture for us

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Speaker 1: and for our listeners of that experience.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I mean, anybody who was alive at that time

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Speaker 5: and was aware knows exactly where they were when they

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Speaker 5: heard that news. You can talk to anybody, they'll tell

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Speaker 5: you exactly where they were and what was happening. I

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Speaker 5: was sixteen, as you said, I was in high school.

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Speaker 5: I was in my physics class, and I'll never forget

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Speaker 5: a student walked in whispered into the teacher's ear, and

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Speaker 5: he turned to us and said, I have some terrible news,

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Speaker 5: and he related to us what had happened to the president,

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Speaker 5: and we were all just stunned and shocked. We were

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Speaker 5: sent home from school. Everybody was sent home, and we

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Speaker 5: turned on our televisions and we watched non stop a

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Speaker 5: television on the reports up until and I was one

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Speaker 5: of the people who watched the person who was accused

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Speaker 5: of killing President Kennedy, Lee Harvey Oswald. I watched him

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Speaker 5: get assassinated on live television. I mean it actually happened.

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Speaker 5: I watched this man. We found out his name was

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Speaker 5: Jack Ruby, who's a local nightclub owner of a place

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Speaker 5: called the Carousel Nightclub. He went into the Dallas police station,

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Speaker 5: drew a gun and stood right in front of Lee

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Speaker 5: Harvey Oswald and shot him to death. And for many

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Speaker 5: of us, that was the moment at which we said,

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Speaker 5: what the heck is going on? The man who has

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Speaker 5: supposedly killed the president is now being murdered himself. Why

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Speaker 5: is that happening? Who's doing this? Who's behind all this?

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Speaker 3: You're talking to three guys who were born in the eighties,

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Speaker 3: so you know, when we first encounter this, we get

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Speaker 3: to an age where, you know, our parents decide we

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Speaker 3: can learn about the JFK assassination, or our schools decide

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Speaker 3: we are allowed to learn about it. We have all

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Speaker 3: of this information already built in, right, but in going

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Speaker 3: back and listening to Who Killed JFK this podcast, we're

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Speaker 3: being presented with this information as it was happening, right,

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Speaker 3: So we get that experience that you're sharing with us now, Rob.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things you mentioned early on is

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Speaker 3: how comedians like Mort Sahl and Dick Gregory were kind

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Speaker 3: of they're using their material as a way for America

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Speaker 3: to begin to process this information, right, Yes, Yes, And

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Speaker 3: what's interesting about that is these guys were both brilliant

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Speaker 3: social and political setu arterists.

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Speaker 5: These were the most incisive, well observed type people who

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Speaker 5: looked at American life and observed it in the most

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Speaker 5: intelligent and fine way. And when they diverged from their

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Speaker 5: normal routines. In the case of Mortsaul, I was nineteen

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Speaker 5: when I watched him go. I was opening for The

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Speaker 5: Hungry Eye for a singer named Carmen McCrae who was

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Speaker 5: a great jazz singer. And when I would finish my

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Speaker 5: set with my partner Larry Bishop, we'd go into this

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Speaker 5: smaller room where Dick, where mort Saul was not doing

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Speaker 5: his normal routine. He was only talking about the Kennedy

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Speaker 5: assassination and the Warren Commission report on the assassination had

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Speaker 5: come out and he was attacking it. He was saying,

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Speaker 5: it's full of lies. It doesn't make any sense. And

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Speaker 5: that and people like Dick Gregory who went on Geraldo

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Speaker 5: Rivera's show and for the first time they exposed the

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Speaker 5: Zapruder film, which was the film that the only film

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Speaker 5: that really captures the assassination by a guy named Abraham Zapruder,

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Speaker 5: was a local dressmaker. Those people, those two comedians, really

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Speaker 5: started the conversation moving forward. People started getting engaged, and

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Speaker 5: those people could draw your attention. They were great speakers,

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Speaker 5: They were great incisive commentators on the times. When I

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Speaker 5: saw Mark Saul, I started really getting into it. I

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Speaker 5: read a book called Rush to Judgment by a writer

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Speaker 5: named Mark Lane, and he completely disbanded the Warren Commission

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Speaker 5: and pointed out the inconsistencies, the things that were left out,

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Speaker 5: the lies. And you started getting into realizing that this

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Speaker 5: was not only a cover up by the government of

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Speaker 5: what had happened, but it uncovered as you track it

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Speaker 5: over the years, this conspiracy that American forces got together

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Speaker 5: to kill an American president in broad daylight on an

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Speaker 5: American street. And the more you look into it, the

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Speaker 5: more disturbing it is. And you know, I was saying that,

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Speaker 5: you know, you look at something like this, and that

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Speaker 5: sixty years has gone by, and unless you're following it closely,

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Speaker 5: there are revelations that come out in drips and drabs,

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Speaker 5: and when they come out, unless you're following it all,

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Speaker 5: you don't know what that has to do with anything else.

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Speaker 5: So this podcast what it does is it takes sixty

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Speaker 5: years of revelations, puts it all in one place and

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Speaker 5: hopefully makes it understandable to people and completely you know,

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Speaker 5: fills in the puzzle of what actually happened on that.

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Speaker 1: Deckh And this is something that I think is key

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Speaker 1: the contextualization. We were talking a little bit air rub.

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Speaker 1: People who are somewhat familiar with the JFK assassination and

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Speaker 1: the ins and outs of it may be surprised to

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Speaker 1: learn that documents pertaining to it were classified until quite

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Speaker 1: recently and new information begins to emerge. Who killed JFK?

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Speaker 1: Does a phenomenal job of connecting some of these puzzle pieces,

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Speaker 1: And already you've mentioned some very bright points about this

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Speaker 1: that remain controversial, especially the Warren Commission, which I think

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Speaker 1: you do a supreme and scrupulous job of pointing out

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Speaker 1: some possible conflicts of interest possible Yeah, Okay, well, guys, Rob.

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Speaker 5: Here's what's interesting about this. Yeah, there were huge conflicts

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Speaker 5: of interests. First of all, there's still almost five thousand

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Speaker 5: documents that have not been released to the public, and

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Speaker 5: you know, we may never see those documents. But the

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Speaker 5: conflict of venters that you're talking about, and there were

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Speaker 5: two investigations. People have to understand. There are two official

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Speaker 5: government investigation of the assassination of JFK. The first was

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Speaker 5: the Warren Commission, which came out in nineteen sixty four,

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Speaker 5: and the second one was done by a group called

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Speaker 5: the House Select Committee on Assassinations, and now it came

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Speaker 5: out in the mid seventies. It came out to actually

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Speaker 5: the report came out in the late seventies. Both of

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Speaker 5: those investigations were compromised. And the way in which that

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Speaker 5: happened is in the first investigation, the Warrant Commission, Lindon

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Speaker 5: Johnson was very concerned about things getting out that might

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Speaker 5: implicate the Russians or the Cubans in a way that

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Speaker 5: might ultimately cause a nuclear war, and he wanted to

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Speaker 5: avoid that. He didn't want any information to come into

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Speaker 5: the investigation that would do anything but point to Lee Harvey,

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Speaker 5: Oswald as a loan gunman. So what he did is

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Speaker 5: they put together this commission headed up by Chief Justice

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Speaker 5: Earl Warren, but his name was mostly titular in this

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Speaker 5: they put in charge of the gatekeeper sense of all

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Speaker 5: information coming from the CIA into the hands of a

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Speaker 5: man named Alan Dulles. Alan Dulles was the first civilian

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Speaker 5: head of the CIA in the nineteen forties. Now, Alan

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Speaker 5: Dulles was one of the architects of the Bay of

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Speaker 5: Pigs invasion. The Bay of Pigs invasion was an attempt

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Speaker 5: by the CIA to train Cuban exiles to go into

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Speaker 5: Cuba and overthrow Castro, who had overthrown Battista just a

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Speaker 5: few years prior. Alan Dulles had this plan with the CIA,

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Speaker 5: working with these Cuban exiles, they went into the Bay

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Speaker 5: of They went into Cuba and they did invade, and

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Speaker 5: they thought that Kennedy would offer air support, that once

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Speaker 5: the troops got in there, they would send American planes

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Speaker 5: and they would take back Cuba. Kennedy told them before

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Speaker 5: the And by the way, Kennedy inherited this plan from

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Speaker 5: Eisenhower and Nixon. He was only in office for two

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Speaker 5: or three months when they when they did this. He

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Speaker 5: told them ahead of time, I will not send American

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Speaker 5: airplanes because I don't want the United States footprint. I

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Speaker 5: don't want to any fingerprints on to be tracked back

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Speaker 5: to the United States. He told them that, and Dulles said,

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Speaker 5: there's no way, don't worry about it. Once we get

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Speaker 5: in there, he's going to see this and he's going

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Speaker 5: to want to send those those airplanes. He never did,

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Speaker 5: and what happened was all the Cuban exes. They were

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Speaker 5: slaughtered on the beaches in Cuba, and it was a

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Speaker 5: complete and utter disaster. Months later, Kennedy fires Alan Dulles,

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Speaker 5: and very you know is known to have said, I

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Speaker 5: want to take the CIA and break it up into

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Speaker 5: a thousand pieces. He was furious at the CIA because

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Speaker 5: they were doing these covert activities without presidential approvals. I mean,

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Speaker 5: they were doing them separately and then you know, then

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Speaker 5: reporting back to the president. So he wanted to get

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Speaker 5: rid of it. He puts Johnson puts Alan Dulles in

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Speaker 5: charge of any information coming from the CIA into the

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Speaker 5: Warrant Commission, and you know, obviously nothing got in. No,

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Speaker 5: we didn't know, we didn't know about the CIA's connection

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Speaker 5: to the mafia. We didn't know about the CIA's extra

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Speaker 5: judicial killings of heads of state, which they did many

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Speaker 5: of We didn't know about out a lot of the

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Speaker 5: involvement with the Cubans in Cuba. We didn't know any

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Speaker 5: of this stuff. So Alan Dalles is compromising that. Now.

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Speaker 5: The big revelation, the big, big, big revelation was in

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Speaker 5: the second investigation that was for the House Select Committee

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Speaker 5: on Assassinations. And we bring this up in the podcast

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Speaker 5: as well. And this didn't come out, This didn't come

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Speaker 5: out until years after the investigation. But the man put

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Speaker 5: in charge of being the liaison between the House Investigation

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Speaker 5: and the CIA was a man named George Joannedes. You've

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Speaker 5: never heard of his name, You don't know who he is,

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Speaker 5: but I can. What I'll tell you is George Joannedes

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Speaker 5: was a former CIA agent and he was the head

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Speaker 5: of a counter intelligence program that developed assets, one of

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Speaker 5: which was Lee Harvey Oswalald. So the guy who was

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Speaker 5: the gatekeeper again to the CIA was the very guy

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Speaker 5: who they wanted to who they should have questioned. We

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Speaker 5: interviewed Robert Blakey, who was the counsel to the House

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Speaker 5: Select Committee. He had no idea that this is what

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Speaker 5: Joe and Edes did. And when he found out many

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Speaker 5: years later, he was furious. He said, if I had

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Speaker 5: known then what I knew now, I would have put

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Speaker 5: Joe and Edies on the stand. He was the answer

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Speaker 5: to many of our questions of how the CIA was

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Speaker 5: involved in the assassination. So you know, there you have

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Speaker 5: two big pieces of information there, separated by many, many years,

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Speaker 5: and we try to put it all together in one place.

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Speaker 1: And there's also the question a lot of our fellow

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Speaker 1: listeners will be asking, which is is there such thing

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Speaker 1: as a former CIA agent?

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Speaker 5: It makes me think, no, there's there's no such thing.

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Speaker 5: I mean a CIA agent.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 5: You you you you may not be active in the

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Speaker 5: way you were when you were being paid by the agency,

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Speaker 5: but you have security clearance and uh you have it

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Speaker 5: for your life. And you you know, it was an

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Speaker 5: interesting thing recently with a Trump I think try to

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Speaker 5: strip uh? And did I think strip uh John Brennan

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Speaker 5: of his security clearance because you didn't like what John

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Speaker 5: Brennan was saying about him and about his uh, you know,

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Speaker 5: his involvement in January sixth. So yes, you're you're always connected.

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Speaker 5: Once you once you're there.

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Speaker 2: Even about the clearances. I mean the relationships, these lifelong

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Speaker 2: relationships and contacts that you can leverage even minus the

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Speaker 2: security clearances. Correct, I mean I think that stuff is

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Speaker 2: money in the bank.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, No, that that's that's true power.

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Speaker 3: Just a real quick insert here for anybody that wants

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Speaker 3: to deep down the rabbit hole. I'm looking at a

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Speaker 3: declassified document here that describes mister Johan Ed's work from

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Speaker 3: December nineteen sixty two to April nineteen sixty four, and

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Speaker 3: it describes him as the case officer for the Cuban

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Speaker 3: Exile Group Directorio Revolutioncenario as Study and teal is known

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Speaker 3: as student.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a student directed anti Castro group.

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Speaker 1: And there's there's something else too. And I know people

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Speaker 1: are yelling at their phones right now or however you

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Speaker 1: listen to shows the House Select Committee, you have this,

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Speaker 1: you have this terrifying observation rob in who killed JFK.

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Speaker 1: Where you say, look, these are two fundamentally flawed investigations

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Speaker 1: and they reach two very different conclusions. And one thing,

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Speaker 1: one thing that I think stands out for people were

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Speaker 1: who were born after that assassination is to read the conclusion.

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Speaker 1: So the House Select Committee, and see that they have

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Speaker 1: dropped the C word. They have said the assassination seemed

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Speaker 1: to be the result of a I believe the quote

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Speaker 1: is probable conspiracy. Y, yes, I mean the Warren Commission

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Speaker 1: basically said that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman,

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Speaker 1: did it all by himself.

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Speaker 5: The House Select Committee said it was probably a conspiracy

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Speaker 5: based on all the investigation they had done, but they

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Speaker 5: didn't say who was involved in the conspiracy. They never

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Speaker 5: could get that far because of this guy, George Joannides.

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Speaker 5: They didn't name the mob, they didn't name the CIA,

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Speaker 5: they didn't talk about the Cuban exilese. They just said,

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Speaker 5: based on the information they had, it was probably a conspiracy.

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Speaker 5: So you have two diametrically opposed conclusions, and that those

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Speaker 5: are the two government.

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Speaker 3: Records now and Warren Commission is nineteen sixty four, so

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Speaker 3: very soon after the assassination, and the House Select Committee

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Speaker 3: isn't until nineteen seventy six. So just imagine, like again,

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Speaker 3: already we've got decades separating, a decade separating these two things.

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Speaker 3: And you wonder why Americans in general, you're talking about

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Speaker 3: drips and drabs information coming out from the very beginning.

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Speaker 3: It's like we're getting little bits and pieces right, and

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Speaker 3: I swear it feels like it's designed that way.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I don't know design, but if you think

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Speaker 5: about you mentioned Dick Gregory. The House Select Committee was

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Speaker 5: born out of an investigation by Idaho Senator Frank Church.

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Speaker 5: They had a committee there set up in the Senate

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Speaker 5: and that was based on information that was coming out

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Speaker 5: that the CIA was doing all kinds of things that

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Speaker 5: they were not aware of. And it came out as

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Speaker 5: a revelation during that that they were doing these extra

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Speaker 5: judicial killings, that other things were going on. And then

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Speaker 5: Dick Gregory went on The Heraldo Show and they showed

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Speaker 5: the Zapruder film for the first time. Now, the Zapruder

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Speaker 5: film was, you know, the Warren Commission saw it. The

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Speaker 5: public had not seen it. Nobody still need photographs, just

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Speaker 5: some still photographs, but we didn't have a context and

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Speaker 5: we didn't see it. When that came out and the

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Speaker 5: Church Committee started revealing what they knew, that gave birth

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Speaker 5: to the House Select Committee. And that was, like you say,

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Speaker 5: well over ten years after the Warren Commission came out.

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Speaker 5: So now all of a sudden, you have another flashpoint now,

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Speaker 5: when Oliver Stone made his film a JFK in nineteen

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Speaker 5: ninety two or ninety one, I believe it was that

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Speaker 5: also triggered the JFK Records Act and the creation of

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Speaker 5: the Assassination Records Review Board, which was another investigation. So

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Speaker 5: these things are separated by many, many years, and during

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Speaker 5: each of these investigations, more and more and more information

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Speaker 5: came out. So, like I say, it's very tough to follow.

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Speaker 5: And unless you're tracking all this stuff when it comes out,

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Speaker 5: you wouldn't You wouldn't know how to put those pieces together.

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Speaker 5: That's what we try to do in this podcast.

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Speaker 2: And you do it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say accomplished so far. And folks, full

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Speaker 1: disclosure here we are in media arrests. We are listing

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Speaker 1: along with you all. We do not know how this

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Speaker 1: story concludes, yet we do what I do. Want to

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Speaker 1: throw one thing here, that's an interesting note, Rob that.

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Speaker 5: I before you say that, before you put a pin

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Speaker 5: in it, I want to hear the interesting note. But

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Speaker 5: by the end of it, by the tenth episode, you

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Speaker 5: will hear what we believe happened that day, and we

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Speaker 5: will name the shooters that we believe are shooting, and

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Speaker 5: we will name the positions that we believe those shooters

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Speaker 5: were in. So I'm just no level.

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Speaker 1: Will you come back on the show?

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Speaker 5: Sure?

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Speaker 3: Sure, absolutely, Okay, so it'll be later than this, early

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Speaker 3: in the morning, we promised you.

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Speaker 2: I agree.

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Speaker 1: So there's something interesting in speaking of contextualization. There is

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Speaker 1: a there is a deep temptation often that pulls us

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Speaker 1: away from objectivity when we start connecting dots, right because

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Speaker 1: humans identify patterns. And I noticed that of the seven

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Speaker 1: official members of the Warren Commission, one died under it

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Speaker 1: or disappeared under extremely mysterious circumstances before the House Select Committee,

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Speaker 1: uh and the Church Committee got their crack at this,

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Speaker 1: And that would be Hail Bogs, who disappeared over over

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Speaker 1: the hinterlands of Alaska.

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Speaker 5: There was a plane crash that you know, we can't

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Speaker 5: say sure what happened there. We don't know, and we're

434
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 5: not going to be some conjecture over this. It happened.

435
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,160
Speaker 5: But there are a lot of mysterious deaths that occurred

436
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 5: right after the Warren Commission came out. There was a

437
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 5: very famous woman who was married to a CIA agent.

438
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,920
Speaker 5: Her name is Mary Meyer, and her sister was having

439
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 5: an affair with Jack Kennedy and she died at the

440
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 5: minute the And this is one of the reasons I

441
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 5: wanted Solidad O'Brien to do this with me, because she

442
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 5: did a podcast about this called Murder on the Towpath

443
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 5: in which this woman was assassinated walking in Georgetown. And

444
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 5: the day that she was killed, James Angleton, who was

445
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 5: the head of counter intelligence for the CIA, along with

446
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 5: Ben Bradley, who was editor of the Washington Post, they

447
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 5: arrived at Mary Meyer's art studio and confiscated a diary

448
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 5: that she kept. So there's that. And you know Dorothy Killgallan,

449
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 5: who was killed shortly after attending the Jack Ruby trial

450
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 5: and was the only one to have actual interviews with

451
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 5: Jack Ruby. She was killed. And there was a number

452
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 5: of people that we did a study and there were

453
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 5: about I think eighteen critical key witnesses who died of

454
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 5: either a heart attack or suicide or accident or jump

455
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 5: out of a window something within two years of the assassination.

456
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 5: And they ran some numbers on it and it's like

457
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 5: seven hundred trillion, I mean, some crazy number the odds

458
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 5: of all of those people dying in that way. But

459
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 5: you know, we don't get into any of that stuff

460
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 5: because we can't prove why these people died. I mean,

461
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 5: and so what we've tried to do in the podcast

462
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 5: is just stick with what we know. These are things

463
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 5: we know, and then you know, we do our best

464
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 5: guess as to put together based on everything we know,

465
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 5: what actually happened.

466
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: And we'll pause here for a word from our sponsor

467
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: before we return and ask Rob Ryder who killed JFK.

468
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: And we have returned.

469
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 2: We talked a little bit off Mike before we started rolling,

470
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: just about this event being sort of the beginning of

471
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 2: this massive polarization of the American people, and it being

472
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: you described it as sort of an end of innocence,

473
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: and I think in Ben you wrote in the outline

474
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 2: here this really was a moment that you could trace

475
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 2: back to when distrust in our government really kind of

476
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: began as much more of a mainstream thing. Rob, can

477
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 2: you kind of cut couple all those ideas together into

478
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 2: sort of your thoughts on what that end of innocence means?

479
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 5: And well, I mean, we you know, after the Second

480
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 5: World War, we were the heroes, We were the good guys,

481
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 5: and we couldn't do nothing wrong. I mean, we you know,

482
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 5: we had prosperity and people, you know, the gi Bill

483
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 5: and people were living in you know, the suburbs, and

484
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 5: they were you know, things were doing, you know, better

485
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 5: for a lot of people, not for not for black people,

486
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:30,680
Speaker 5: but for a lot of Americans. And then you have

487
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 5: this moment happened in nineteen sixty three where it's like

488
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 5: your father was he I mean, you know, the leader

489
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 5: of the country was just killed like that. And we

490
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 5: knew at the time, I mean, which came out that

491
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 5: Kennedy was trying to make a forge a path to peace.

492
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 5: He gave a very famous speech at American University where

493
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 5: he talked about we cannot go down this road of

494
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 5: nuclear holocaust. We have to find a way to forge

495
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 5: path to peace. Well, in the context of that, he

496
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 5: wrote a memo which is on file that he was

497
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 5: going to call for the removal of a thousand troops

498
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 5: out of Vietnam that year and the removal of all

499
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 5: military out of Vietnam by the end of nineteen sixty five. Now,

500
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 5: we don't know would he have done that, would he

501
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 5: not have done that. What we do know is that

502
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 5: he wrote the memo, and certainly the hardliners in the

503
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 5: CIA and the military knew that, and they were worried

504
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 5: that that was going to happen. So what happens. Kennedy

505
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 5: gets assassinated, Johnson becomes president, and the next thing you know,

506
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 5: we're stepping up the war in Vietnam. And that to

507
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 5: me was the beginning of a huge divide in America.

508
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 2: Who does that benefit though, staying in Vietnam? Like I

509
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 2: think I understand, but just from your respective like the hardliners,

510
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, like, who is benefiting from US maintaining

511
00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: a presence in Vietnam when it was such a disastrous,

512
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 2: you know, conflicts.

513
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 5: Well, first of all, ideologically, the hardliners are thinking, and

514
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 5: that was certainly the thoughts of the day, there was

515
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 5: a better dead than red. They believed that there was

516
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 5: this domino theory and that if one country went fell communists,

517
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 5: that there would be a domino theory and the rest

518
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 5: of the world would go communists. They were actually afraid

519
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 5: that the world was going to turn into a communistic world.

520
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 5: So ideologically that's what they thought. Now on a purely

521
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 5: economic standpoint, you know, you make money, you go to war,

522
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 5: and in the military industrial complex, which by the way,

523
00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 5: Eisenhower warned us beware, in the military industrial complex, they

524
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 5: want they want to be able to do that because

525
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 5: it's good business. So those two things are happening there.

526
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 5: And for young people, they're being sent off to war

527
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 5: to in a war that they don't believe is just

528
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 5: they don't believe is legal. And if you remember, I

529
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 5: mean people who want to study their history, there was

530
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 5: a thing called the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which was

531
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 5: all about the fact that we were told that our

532
00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 5: ship was fired on in Vietnam in this Tonkin ship

533
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 5: was fired on and so I mean in the Gulf

534
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 5: of Tonkin, and that was the pretext for why we

535
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 5: went to war in Vietnam. So you had a lot

536
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 5: of distrust going on, and the country started divide. There

537
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 5: were protests all over the country, and we divided as

538
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 5: a nation. And I believe that it was the beginning

539
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 5: of the divide that you see now. This country couldn't

540
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 5: be more divided than they are now. And I would

541
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 5: point back to what happened in going into Vietnam. That

542
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:57,920
Speaker 5: was the beginning of that divide.

543
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 3: Well, and there's so many things to talk about here

544
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: that branch from that. But we learn in your podcast

545
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 3: that JFK was maintaining maybe off the books, we would say,

546
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 3: contact with Soviet officials, like the highest Soviet officials and

547
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 3: Cuban officials, and attempting to smooth things out directly rather

548
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 3: than through the mechanisms that would normally you'd need to

549
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,040
Speaker 3: go through to vice.

550
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 5: Conversation back channel. He was back channeling with Kruse Jeff.

551
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 5: He was back channeling with Castro directly with Kruse Jeff

552
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 5: and Castro to make sure that and this is on

553
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 5: the heels of the Cuban missile crisis, which happened a

554
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 5: year after the Bay of Pigs. The Cuban missile crisis,

555
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 5: as people know, or you know, maybe they're learning for

556
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 5: the first time, was we were on the brink of

557
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 5: a nuclear war, and those of us who were alive

558
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 5: at the time will never ever forget it. We found

559
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 5: out that there were nuclear weapons in Cuba that were

560
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 5: put there by the Russians ninety miles away from America,

561
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 5: and they could reach Washington in twenty minutes. So we

562
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 5: were doing drills in school. Now they have active shooter drills.

563
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,160
Speaker 5: In my time, they had a duck and covered drill

564
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,839
Speaker 5: that you under the desk. You'd get under a desk

565
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 5: in case of a nuclear Now. I used to make

566
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 5: a joke about it, which is, you know, it was

567
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 5: a known fact that the material that they made school

568
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 5: desks out of could actually repel a nuclear bomb. But it's,

569
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 5: of course it's ridiculous. It's optics though, right, it's this

570
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 5: idea with safety, you know, yeah, that we better, you know,

571
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 5: keep ourselves safe. So we were all believing that that's

572
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 5: what we were a minute away from a nuclear holocaust,

573
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 5: and that was that was the basis fun, you know,

574
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 5: which we lived. So uh, he started the back channel.

575
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 5: He said, you know, we can't let this happen. What

576
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 5: can we do? They you know, he settled the Cuban

577
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,279
Speaker 5: missile crisis, Kennedy did. He He made a deal with

578
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 5: Cruse Chef. We had missiles in Turkey. He said to

579
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 5: Kruse Chef, will take those missiles out of Turkey if

580
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 5: you take these missiles out of Cuba, which happened. But

581
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 5: then he said, from there on, we got to make

582
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 5: sure that nothing like this happens again, because the whole world.

583
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 5: We're going to blow up the whole world if we

584
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 5: do this. And so he started back channeling to Castro

585
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 5: to Kruse Chef and the CIA was well aware of that.

586
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 5: They became well aware of that, and that added to

587
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 5: their distrust of Kennedy in terms of his fight against communism.

588
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: And also there seems to be this it was a

589
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: thing that the American public was largely unaware of, but

590
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:47,239
Speaker 1: there was internal descent escalating into chaos. At the same time,

591
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: there was this move for de escalation.

592
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,959
Speaker 5: Yes, right right during the Cuban missile crisis. The hardliners

593
00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 5: in both the CIA and the military were We're pushing

594
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 5: Kennedy like crazy, make a strike, take them out, take

595
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 5: those missiles out, go after them. And they were very

596
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 5: upset with him when he chose this this other path.

597
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 5: It was. It was contentious. There was a lot of screaming,

598
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 5: yelling going on in the White It's thirteen days, very

599
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 5: famous time, thirteen days where we all lived on the

600
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 5: edge of are we going to be blown up?

601
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,160
Speaker 1: Do you feel rob that there was a somewhat of

602
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 1: a of a like lack of respect amid the unelected

603
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: power structures of US governance, because from what we've been reading,

604
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: it seems as though when Kennedy enters office, you know,

605
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: the CIA still still high off the oss World War

606
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 1: two actions. They're kind of coming in with this attitude that, yes,

607
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 1: you will be a figurehead and you will do what

608
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: we the adults say.

609
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 5: Is not only that, yeah, not only that. But Kennedy

610
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 5: campaigned in nineteen sixty as a anti communist, you know,

611
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 5: strong against communism. There was a big debate, you know,

612
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 5: with with Nixon. It was on television, was I think

613
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 5: it was one of the first televised debates, and he

614
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 5: had to show that he had real bona fides in

615
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 5: fighting communism. He ran as a anti communist, strong willed,

616
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 5: a guy who would stand, you know, in his inaugural desk,

617
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 5: We'll stand up to any foe, We'll fight anybody to

618
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 5: do this. And he knew in order to win he

619
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 5: had to show his strength against communism. But as the

620
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 5: realities presented himself, he realizes that that strength that he

621
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 5: showed could lead to world hundreds and hundreds of millions

622
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 5: of people being killed. And so the reality set in

623
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 5: and he said, no, I got a oh, a different,

624
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 5: a different direction here.

625
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 2: And they were mad.

626
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 5: They were angry at him because they assumed that he

627
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 5: was going to be a you know, a real, real

628
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 5: you know, as as an extension of the McCarthy days,

629
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 5: where go after the comedy, get him out of government,

630
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,720
Speaker 5: get you know, anybody could be a comedy. They're lurking,

631
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 5: you know, get get rid of them. Uh, they thought

632
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 5: he was going to be one of those guys.

633
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 2: That's a proper witch hunt, though not the way it's

634
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: kind of been dog whistle ified by the Trump administration.

635
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:28,080
Speaker 3: You know.

636
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:30,920
Speaker 2: That was people actually being persecuted who did not have

637
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 2: any affiliation.

638
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, a lot of them were.

639
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And it makes me wonder about the just

640
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: real quick, the concept of greater good, which seems to

641
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: be you know, both an ideological motivating force for a

642
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 1: lot of the more hawkish factors here. And I have

643
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,879
Speaker 1: to say, uh, one of the things that I went

644
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 1: back and rewatched after listening to the first several episodes

645
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 1: of Who Killed JFK? Was a you good men, and

646
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's there's something there that reminds me

647
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: and probably a lot of our listeners too, reminds me

648
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: so viscerally of that rationalization where where we have characters

649
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: who are saying, look, did I do something quote unquote wrong? Maybe,

650
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: but I did it for the right reasons. Do you

651
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: feel do you feel that that was sort of a

652
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 1: common mentality in the Operation Ensure.

653
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 5: I mean that is, you know, the military is there

654
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 5: to protect us, and that's good, we want that. But

655
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 5: the question is how far do you go to protect us?

656
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 5: Are you willing to commit war crimes? In the case

657
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 5: of Nazi Germany? Are you willing to do anything? And

658
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 5: that's what the character that Jack Nicholson plays in Few

659
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 5: Good Men. He says, you want me on that wall,

660
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 5: you need me on that wall. I'm doing what you

661
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 5: can't do. And so the question always is how far

662
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 5: are you willing to go in order to uh to

663
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 5: protect people? Are you willing to blow up the world?

664
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,319
Speaker 5: I mean, who wins? Nobody wins in that situation. You're

665
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 5: not protecting anybody.

666
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 2: And unfortunately, as just mere mortal voters, we don't get

667
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 2: to the side how far that line is? No, we don't, no, no.

668
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 5: But what we're hoping is that we, as normal voters,

669
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 5: are electing people who have the good sense to know

670
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 5: where that line is, and that that's where we are now.

671
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 5: I mean, we're we couldn't be more divided. You've got

672
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 5: one guy who's willing to do anything, you know, Donald Trump,

673
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 5: is willing to do anything to keep power, and that

674
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,560
Speaker 5: means he even said it. I'm not making it up.

675
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 5: He said it. We'll put the vermin you know, we'll

676
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,720
Speaker 5: take and we'll put them in in in in camps,

677
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 5: and we'll make sure you're familiar with We'll get the blood,

678
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 5: you know, the disgusting the that's poisoning the American bloodstream,

679
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 5: will put him in camps. That's he said that.

680
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: But he's also plagiarizing Adolf Hitler too, well, yeah, because

681
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: he can't make your stuff up.

682
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 5: He's not smart enough. But I mean, and I always

683
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 5: heard that he had mine komf on his vin stand. Well,

684
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 5: he probably had it on his best name. He didn't

685
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 5: read it. I mean, I don't know how much of

686
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 5: you bred who knows. I don't know what he does

687
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 5: with reading.

688
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: Mine from the Bible and he didn't read either of them.

689
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, he probably held mine comf. He held my

690
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:36,239
Speaker 5: comf up the wrong way too. But guys, but we're

691
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 5: getting too far a field here. But the truth is,

692
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 5: we want to elect people who know where that line

693
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 5: is and not to cross it, because when you cross it,

694
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,280
Speaker 5: you're not protecting people.

695
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: You're also not electing a lot of the decision makers

696
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 1: to your point, directly and representative democracy.

697
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 2: There's no one.

698
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: No average voter votes for a Supreme Court nominee, No

699
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: average voter votes for the people in charge of the

700
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: NSSA or the CIA.

701
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 5: No. But what you are voting for is you're voting

702
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:11,520
Speaker 5: for a president who nominates Supreme Court justices, who nominates

703
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 5: a secretary of Defense, you know, any of the positions.

704
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 5: You're nominating somebody, or you're voting for somebody who has

705
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 5: the power to nominate people who are sensible, who know

706
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,880
Speaker 5: where the line is. That's representative government, and that's what

707
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: you want. You want somebody who's reasoned, who's intelligent, and

708
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 5: who can make the right decisions.

709
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,439
Speaker 2: Hey, let's take a quick pause here for a word

710
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: from our sponsor, and then we'll return with more from

711
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: Rob Reiner, and we're back. Let's jump right into our

712
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 2: conversation with Rob Reiner already in progress.

713
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 3: Let's take it back to nineteen seventy five, to the

714
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 3: Church Committee again, because it's directly related to this. That's

715
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 3: when the American public learned about a couple of things

716
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 3: that you might be familiar with if you're listening to

717
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 3: this show MK Ultra and Cointelpro specifically when it comes

718
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 3: to assassinations. I'm thinking about Cointelpro. If you jump five

719
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,399
Speaker 3: years after JFK's assassination and you look at Martin Luther

720
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 3: King Junior, you look at JFK's brother RFK, So it's like,

721
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 3: again not directly perhaps related to Cointelpro, but it is

722
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 3: a secret it is a secret thing that we didn't

723
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 3: know about, that the FBI was doing to investigate people

724
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 3: that they thought would be counter to the vision of

725
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 3: the world that they had.

726
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 5: Right, that's right, that's right. And you mentioned it's counterintelligence program.

727
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,359
Speaker 5: I mean, that's what they're doing. They're trying to root

728
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 5: out anybody that goes against their ideology. You mentioned Ultra.

729
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 5: MK Ultra was a program that was designed at the CIA,

730
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 5: and this was during the Cold War where there was

731
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 5: a lot of concern about moles infiltrating our intelligence community

732
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 5: and getting information, and we wanted to try to see

733
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 5: if we could get our people inside the you know,

734
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,799
Speaker 5: the Soviet Union, inside the KGB. There was this big

735
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 5: cat and mouse game going on, headed up by this

736
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 5: head of counter intelligence, James Jesus Angleton, who was a

737
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 5: brilliant guy, genius, but also paranoid beyond belief that he

738
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 5: thought there was, you know, a mole everywhere you look.

739
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:33,320
Speaker 5: So this mk Ultra program was designed to try to

740
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 5: create spies, people who would look like, you know, dissidents

741
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 5: or whatever. And there was a program set up at

742
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 5: a place called Nag's Head and we'll get you'll get

743
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 5: into this. You'll hear this in the other episodes. It

744
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:55,480
Speaker 5: was in North Carolina where they took disaffected youths, Oswald

745
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 5: being one of them. He was part of that program.

746
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 5: And we have somebody on the podcast who knew Oswald

747
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 5: in that program, who was there at Nashead. And what

748
00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 5: they did was they used LSD. They used all kinds

749
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 5: of uh techniques of torture and things to try to uh,

750
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 5: you know, get inside somebody's mind. This was like in

751
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 5: the days of the Manchurian candidate, that you could create

752
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:24,279
Speaker 5: this elusive illusion of somebody who was not who they

753
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,920
Speaker 5: appeared to be. Now it didn't really work, they didn't

754
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 5: really were able to be successful. But the fact is

755
00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 5: they were uh uh training people to be assets assets

756
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 5: for them that somewhere down the line they could could use.

757
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 5: And Oswald was part of that. Oswald was part of that.

758
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 5: He also went and learned Russian, He learned uh Rush Russian,

759
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 5: and he was sent to the Soviet Union as as

760
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 5: part of an operation to see if they could infiltrate

761
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 5: somebody into the into the uh you know, Toto, the

762
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 5: Soviet Union. It was a failure, he didn't get anything.

763
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 5: But we know that that happened because he was stationed

764
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 5: in Japan during you know, when he was a marine.

765
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 5: He was you know, a radar operator for the U

766
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 5: two spy plane. And there was a guy who was

767
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,200
Speaker 5: also in military intelligence that was teamed up with Oswald

768
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,400
Speaker 5: on an operation to try to flip a Soviet colonel

769
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 5: to come into the CIA. So Oswald was part of

770
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:32,800
Speaker 5: an intelligence community. We knew that that. And once he

771
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 5: went to Russia in nineteen fifty nine sixty, around sixty

772
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 5: to fifty on sixty they opened a file on Oswald,

773
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 5: but they call it two to one file. And for

774
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 5: four years they had reams and reams of documents connecting

775
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 5: the CIA with Oswald, and none of that came out

776
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 5: in the Warrant Commission report. That Warren report said there's

777
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 5: no there's no connect We don't know anything about Oswald,

778
00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 5: and there were thousands of documents that showed that they did.

779
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to ask, because there's no

780
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: acknowledgment that he was an asset or a reference to

781
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 2: who his handlers might have been, or he was just

782
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:15,680
Speaker 2: a lone wolf. He was treated like a civilian who

783
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 2: just went nuts and did this thing of his own volition.

784
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting, you know you said he said I

785
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,880
Speaker 5: was just a patsy. I was a patsy. Now, you know,

786
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,839
Speaker 5: if you're accused of murder, the first thing you're saying

787
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 5: is I didn't do it. I don't know, I didn't

788
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,080
Speaker 5: do it. You're not saying I'm a patsy. A patsy

789
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 5: is a guy who knows that something else is going on,

790
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,080
Speaker 5: that he's being set up for. And then when you

791
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 5: add people ask, well, well didn't he want to you know,

792
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 5: he was a lone wolf and didn't he want to

793
00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 5: make a name for himself. Well, if you want to

794
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 5: make a name for yourself, you say what you did.

795
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 5: You don't say I'm a patsy. You say I did

796
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 5: it because I believe America.

797
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: You know you do, you know you do that.

798
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 5: It's the exact opposite.

799
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,759
Speaker 3: Okay, I've read some things and have heard something that

800
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 3: Oswald was potentially meeting with a group of Cuban exiles

801
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 3: in Dallas right before the assassination. Did you find anything

802
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: that may corroborate that.

803
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 5: No, we didn't find that he was meeting with a

804
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 5: group of Cuban exiles. What we did find was that

805
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 5: it's known, this is on record that he went to

806
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 5: New Orleans a few months in April May. He went

807
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 5: to New Orleans and he joined what they call the

808
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 5: fair Play for Cuba Committee. Now that was a legitimate organization.

809
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:36,680
Speaker 5: They had chapters around the country, but when he went

810
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 5: to New Orleans, he started his own chapter. And he

811
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 5: was the only member of the fair Play for Cuba Committee.

812
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 5: There was no other members. He was the only one,

813
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 5: and he handed out leaflets. And if this is something

814
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 5: we know because we have photographs. In one of the

815
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 5: pictures he's handing out leaflets and there's a CIA operative

816
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 5: in the background of one of those photographs. Now, the

817
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 5: other thing is when he handed out these photographs, it

818
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 5: was done at a place where there were uh anti

819
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,840
Speaker 5: Castro people. He was supposed to be pro cast a

820
00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:12,919
Speaker 5: lot of anti Castro and there was a big fight.

821
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,319
Speaker 5: They took his leafless, they threw up in the air,

822
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 5: there was a scuffle, there was a melee and was

823
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 5: all caught on on on film. I mean they they

824
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 5: they and it went on the news. So who's you know,

825
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 5: who's filming this, who's doing this? I mean, you have

826
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 5: to make it so that you're you know, setting up

827
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 5: this guy that he's a pro castro guy and uh,

828
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 5: you know, otherwise he's just a lone guy sitting on

829
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 5: the corner handing out leafless. You know who go who

830
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 5: films the guy handing out leafless at any corner anywhere?

831
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 3: The narrative somebody making a movie.

832
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a bit of a there's there's this emphasis

833
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: kind of on narrative and even in the even in

834
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 1: the internal conversations which are now public knowledge regarding the

835
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: Warren Commission, we see that there is this strong drive

836
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 1: from people who are kind of driving the commission, even

837
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,400
Speaker 1: though they're not official members. I believe it was Jagger Hoover,

838
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:19,759
Speaker 1: famous dude who said, look, we're going to make this

839
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: look like this story.

840
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 5: And yeah, you had you had not only Jaye Go Hoover,

841
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:31,680
Speaker 5: but you know, we have audio tapes of Hoover talking

842
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,960
Speaker 5: to Johnson saying, we can't let this thing get out

843
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:37,879
Speaker 5: of hand. The House wants to investigated, the Senate wants

844
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 5: to investigated, but we got to keep a lid on

845
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,680
Speaker 5: this thing because it's it's going to go crazy, so

846
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,080
Speaker 5: we have to control it. And then there's a very

847
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:50,240
Speaker 5: famous memo by Nicholas Kotzenbach. He was the deputy Attorney

848
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 5: General under Robert Kennedy, and he released a memo saying,

849
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 5: we have to convince the public that Lee Harvey Oswall

850
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 5: was the Loan assassin. And this came out three days

851
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,759
Speaker 5: or a few days right after the assassination, and they

852
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,880
Speaker 5: were already saying this is Oswal, and we got to

853
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:10,960
Speaker 5: make the public believe this. So everything was designed to

854
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,919
Speaker 5: create that narrative, like you said, and we get into

855
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 5: it in the third episode where we get into the

856
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 5: forensics of how the narrative really starts to fall apart.

857
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 5: It really falls apart because we get into the famous

858
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 5: single bullet theory and they had a big problem. I mean,

859
00:53:30,920 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 5: people who study this stuff know it's impossible to do

860
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,440
Speaker 5: what this one bullet was supposed to have done. And

861
00:53:40,960 --> 00:53:46,280
Speaker 5: for your listeners who don't know about it. The Warrant

862
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 5: Commission said that three shots were fired from the sixth

863
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 5: floor of the Texas school Book Depository building, which overlooked

864
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 5: the Presidential motikaide on Elm Street. Three shots. Initially they

865
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 5: said the first shot hit Kennedy and in the back

866
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 5: the second shot. They had a problem because they said

867
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 5: all three shots hit. The problem they had was the

868
00:54:10,840 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 5: first shot missed. And they found out that the first

869
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,359
Speaker 5: shot missed because it hit a curb and a piece

870
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:21,200
Speaker 5: of concrete flicked into a bystander's cheek and he started

871
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,120
Speaker 5: to bleed. So now they were left with two shots,

872
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 5: and that two shots had to do all the damage.

873
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 5: One of the shots we know was a shot to

874
00:54:29,640 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 5: his head. That was the fatal head wound, the shot

875
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 5: that killed Kennedy. Then they have one bullet left to

876
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 5: say that a bullet went into from the sixth floor.

877
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 5: From the sixth floor, the bullet went into the Kennedy's

878
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,480
Speaker 5: back right six to eight inches below his neck, then

879
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 5: traveled up and came out his neck. Then made a

880
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:58,720
Speaker 5: turn to the Magic Connolly. Hit Connolly in the ribs,

881
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 5: break some ribs, then makes another turn hits him in

882
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,919
Speaker 5: the wrists, breaks the wrist bones, then makes another turn

883
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 5: and and it winds up in his thigh. That's what

884
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 5: they had to make you believe. And the guy who

885
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 5: came up with that was a fellow named Marlinspector who

886
00:55:14,120 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 5: became a senator. At the time, he was just a

887
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 5: lawyer who was representing the committee, and he came up

888
00:55:20,320 --> 00:55:23,799
Speaker 5: with this single bullet theory, this magic bullet that did

889
00:55:23,880 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 5: all that damage. And they said, well, that's what And

890
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,480
Speaker 5: by the way, you can see that bullet. It's on

891
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 5: file in the in the archives and in the Warrant Commission,

892
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 5: and it's limited as evidence number three ninety nine, and

893
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 5: it's pristine. It didn't just looks like it didn't hit anything.

894
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 2: You know, rub should we maybe take this as an

895
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,480
Speaker 2: opportunity to address the elephant in the room That seems

896
00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: to me it should be a larger elephant, but it

897
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:49,719
Speaker 2: seems to have us have been glossed over by the

898
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: media a bit. Paul Landis, Oh, yeah, well that's revelations.

899
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:57,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. See, that's interesting you bring up, Paul Landis, because

900
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 5: again it goes back to drips and things coming out

901
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 5: over a time. If people Paul Anders came out with

902
00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 5: a report about I don't know, a couple of months

903
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:14,120
Speaker 5: ago whatever, and we interviewed him for the podcast. Yeah,

904
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:20,719
Speaker 5: he's on there. And this guy was on the trail car.

905
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 5: He was a secret service aation who was in the trailcar.

906
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 5: He's riding on the running board behind Kennedy when the

907
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 5: headshot came. He talks about how brain matter and the

908
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 5: skull matter flew in his direction and he had a

909
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 5: duck to get out of the way of getting hit

910
00:56:36,080 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 5: by brain matter. And he talked about how when they

911
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 5: got to Parkland Hospital, which is where they're going to

912
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,880
Speaker 5: take care of Kennedy, that when he helped Jackie Kennedy

913
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 5: up out of the seat, there was a blood pool

914
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 5: of blood on the seat where they were sitting, and

915
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 5: he looked in the back on the top of the

916
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:59,360
Speaker 5: seat resting there was a bullet and it was this

917
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 5: bullet and he didn't know what to do because he thought, well,

918
00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 5: this is a piece of evidence, and it was. He

919
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 5: knew the bullet had been fired because it had striation

920
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 5: marks on it, but it was essentially pristine, there was

921
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 5: no other damage to it. And he picked it up

922
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,440
Speaker 5: because he thought, you know, it's a piece of evidence.

923
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 5: What if somebody takes it and you know, and then

924
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 5: he went into the hospital and didn't know what to do,

925
00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 5: and he put it on the Kennedy's by Kennedy's leg

926
00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 5: when he was being worked on. And so when you

927
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 5: hear this and you take it not in context, you go, well,

928
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 5: so what there was another bullet there? But what you

929
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 5: have to know is that this is the bullet that

930
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 5: Arl Inspector claimed to have gone through two people. Now,

931
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:50,080
Speaker 5: if that happened, then how how did the bullet wind

932
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 5: up in the back but it bounced back after it wounded?

933
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 5: You know what I mean? According is so crazy that

934
00:57:59,120 --> 00:58:01,640
Speaker 5: unless you can put all these pieces together, you go, well,

935
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 5: so the guy found a bullet, big deal.

936
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:07,240
Speaker 1: And what would the American public have done? There's another

937
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,240
Speaker 1: question we can't answer. What would the American public have

938
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: done in the sixties had they known these and other discrepancies?

939
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: You know, Rob entering into this, we knew there was

940
00:58:18,120 --> 00:58:20,280
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that we wouldn't get to in

941
00:58:20,480 --> 00:58:24,080
Speaker 1: our conversation, like the autopsy reports, uh, the one that

942
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:30,080
Speaker 1: got birds. Yeah, the fact that Texas Governor Coddoley also said,

943
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 1: I don't think that was the same bullet.

944
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 5: No, he said that he died. He said the bullet

945
00:58:35,600 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 5: that Kennedy did not hit me. What would the public

946
00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 5: have done. I think they were worried what the public

947
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 5: would have done, because it would have put I mean,

948
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 5: as it is, we have distrust in government now. The

949
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 5: trust level in government is so low now that I

950
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 5: think that at that time, it would have, you know,

951
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 5: just blown the lid off of any trust of the

952
00:58:55,720 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 5: Justice Department, the intelligence community, the military. You know, they

953
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:02,880
Speaker 5: were trying to keep a lid on that so that

954
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,560
Speaker 5: they you know, that trust remained in government. But my

955
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 5: contention is you trust when you know. And if you

956
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 5: know the truth and you're open and telling the truth,

957
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 5: you can say, hey, we made a mistake, we did

958
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,920
Speaker 5: something wrong, we should not have done that. And if

959
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:23,360
Speaker 5: you do that, you gain trust, you don't lose trust.

960
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 5: And then that's what we need the basis of all democracy.

961
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 5: And that's why I've stuck with this for so long.

962
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 5: I believe that that the foundation of a strong democracy

963
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 5: is that the American people trust in the institutions of government.

964
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:41,320
Speaker 5: We have to trust and by the way, people desputs

965
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 5: know the best way to gain power is to fomote

966
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,200
Speaker 5: foment distrust and that's what Trump's been doing it. It's

967
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 5: right out of the authoritarian playbook. You make people distrust

968
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 5: things and then you say I can fix it. I'm

969
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 5: the only one that can fix it.

970
00:59:58,600 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: This goes to one of the I think the big questions,

971
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:04,560
Speaker 1: and I can't speak for everyone, but this is after

972
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: listening to the show and just the caliber the level

973
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: of research and investigation that you have done here. One

974
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:17,680
Speaker 1: of one of my big questions is why now, like,

975
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: why this moment in time do we get the answer

976
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: for who killed JFK.

977
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 5: Well, I think again, it goes back to right now,

978
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 5: we're seeing the potential end of American democracy and if

979
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:37,600
Speaker 5: people don't think that that could happen, we're seeing it

980
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 5: right now unfold in front of our very eyes. And

981
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 5: what we need to do is be honest and truthful

982
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 5: with the American public. We have a lot of things

983
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,240
Speaker 5: that we've done wrong in this country, you know, starting

984
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 5: with what we did to Native Americans, then what we

985
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:59,640
Speaker 5: did to black people who were slaves for so many

986
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 5: hundred years, and we have to come to grips with

987
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 5: all this stuff in order to make a more perfect union.

988
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 5: The people who started this country, they weren't. You know,

989
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 5: they didn't know everything they you know, Jefferson had slave,

990
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,600
Speaker 5: they had slaves. But they did provide us with a

991
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 5: working document that could make us better, that we could

992
01:01:23,560 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 5: keep doing what we need to do to make us

993
01:01:26,200 --> 01:01:30,000
Speaker 5: better to form a more perfect union. So we have

994
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,600
Speaker 5: this opportunity, and the only way we're going to forge

995
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 5: a more perfect union is to level with people to

996
01:01:36,840 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 5: say this is the truth, this is true, and this

997
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 5: is not true. And we're living at a time where

998
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,640
Speaker 5: it's very, very hard to get the truth out because

999
01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:51,080
Speaker 5: we're loaded with disinformation. You know. You see on TikTok

1000
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,240
Speaker 5: they come out with all of a sudden, ben Laden

1001
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 5: is saying something and it's amplified on TikTok, and then

1002
01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 5: everybody jumps on that, and you go, oh, no, that's

1003
01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:04,760
Speaker 5: not right. You don't kill people because you don't believe

1004
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 5: in their ideology or you don't like Jews, or you

1005
01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 5: don't like Muslims, or you don't like black people whatever.

1006
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 5: That's not making it a more perfect union. So that's

1007
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,000
Speaker 5: why we want to do this. We want to put

1008
01:02:17,120 --> 01:02:19,440
Speaker 5: try to keep putting us back on.

1009
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 2: The right track. You know, it's funny Rob that like

1010
01:02:21,840 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 2: my kid is fifteen and just an absolute product of

1011
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 2: the Internet, much more than any other generation, where it

1012
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,360
Speaker 2: was a fully formed thing by the time they, you know,

1013
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 2: were of age and just using it from as early

1014
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:36,040
Speaker 2: as they can remember. But my kid very much understands

1015
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 2: the idea of vetting information that they're presented with, you know,

1016
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:44,400
Speaker 2: the idea of being the arbiter of good information well

1017
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:45,320
Speaker 2: time people.

1018
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 5: True, hats off to your kid, man, because most kids,

1019
01:02:49,200 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 5: from what I understand, and I just was at the

1020
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 5: symposium where they talked about the dangers of AI and

1021
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:58,959
Speaker 5: the genius say, you are working on AI. They don't

1022
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 5: know how to control it. They don't have the single

1023
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:06,560
Speaker 5: foggiest idea of how to regulate it. And what they

1024
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:08,920
Speaker 5: say is a lot of young people will look at

1025
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 5: something informationally on on social media. They'll read the headline

1026
01:03:14,320 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 5: and then they'll go to the comments. I was hoping.

1027
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 2: Of the generation. Yeah maybe it's maybe it's not. Maybe

1028
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,800
Speaker 2: my kid is no similar their peers.

1029
01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 5: But well, I mean thinking, you know, like I say,

1030
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 5: hats off to your kid, because I mean, if he's

1031
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,480
Speaker 5: really you know, studying this and figuring in trying to

1032
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:34,880
Speaker 5: figure out what's true and what's not true, then hats

1033
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 5: off to them.

1034
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 2: I was just hoping that it was maybe indicative of

1035
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:40,840
Speaker 2: the generation, but your research seems to say otherwise. But

1036
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 2: who knows. You know, every individual is different.

1037
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, Hey guys, I just want to articulate

1038
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 3: to everybody listening into you, Rob, why I am so

1039
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:53,160
Speaker 3: excited that you are one of the minds behind this project.

1040
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:56,120
Speaker 3: And it has to do with how your brain functions

1041
01:03:56,560 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 3: because of what because of the way it's functioned in

1042
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 3: the past, simultaneously focused on the macro and the micro.

1043
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,200
Speaker 3: Just see if I can get this out so I

1044
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:09,120
Speaker 3: can ask you the question. So if you go back

1045
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 3: to the fall of nineteen ninety one and you put

1046
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 3: yourself on that bridge when you began filming a few

1047
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 3: good men. If you're you are overseeing the creative vision

1048
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:22,960
Speaker 3: of this project, so that means like having that overview

1049
01:04:23,880 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 3: feel right while micro not micromanaging, but keeping yourself focused

1050
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:32,439
Speaker 3: on the micro thousands of decisions that go into getting

1051
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:36,640
Speaker 3: one shot right. But you're also a producer on that project,

1052
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,960
Speaker 3: which means you are getting to see kind of the

1053
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,200
Speaker 3: stuff that happens behind the scenes that allows the filming

1054
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:46,919
Speaker 3: to begin. Even how do you think those experiences over

1055
01:04:47,000 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 3: all of these years shape the way that you've looked

1056
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 3: at this assassination as some kind of set of machinations.

1057
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 5: Potentially, you know that that's a perfect summation of how

1058
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,520
Speaker 5: I approach things. It's exactly how I do it. You know,

1059
01:05:01,680 --> 01:05:05,080
Speaker 5: as a director, I do have to see the overall

1060
01:05:05,160 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 5: big picture. I have to see what that looks like.

1061
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,320
Speaker 5: And at the same time, I know that these little

1062
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,560
Speaker 5: specific details are what make up that big picture. So

1063
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,160
Speaker 5: you look at it and you say, does that make sense?

1064
01:05:18,320 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 5: Does that not make sense? I'm somebody who I love puzzles.

1065
01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 5: I like to do puzzles. I like to figure out

1066
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 5: how does something work, how do those pieces fit together.

1067
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 5: I'm not just jigsaw puzzles with crosswords and Sudoku and

1068
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:36,160
Speaker 5: all of those kinds of things. So I do look

1069
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,959
Speaker 5: at things in a macro way, but then I also

1070
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 5: look to individual little fine points and does that make sense?

1071
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:46,840
Speaker 5: Does that fit? Does that piece fit into that puzzle?

1072
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 5: Or is that And maybe it does, and they maybe

1073
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 5: the puzzle goes in a different direction. A lot of

1074
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 5: times you look at something and you have a certain

1075
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 5: predisposed idea as to what something will be, but then

1076
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, the thing will tell you that

1077
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 5: it isn't that it's something else, and then you have

1078
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 5: to be open minded enough to go down the road

1079
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 5: of where that's leading you. And so you go down

1080
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:15,440
Speaker 5: all these rabbit trails to find out what and then

1081
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:19,560
Speaker 5: eventually the puzzle comes into shape and you see what

1082
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 5: it really is. And I've been at this particular puzzle

1083
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 5: for sixty years, and it wasn't until I met a

1084
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 5: number of different people who started filling in pieces and

1085
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 5: certain things that I thought, hmmm, that's not maybe true.

1086
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 5: But then when I started putting it all together with

1087
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:42,720
Speaker 5: all the information that I had, I went, Okay, I

1088
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:45,280
Speaker 5: get this now when we lay it out at the

1089
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 5: end of this podcast, I can't tell you one hundred

1090
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 5: percent for sure that these were the four shooters and

1091
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 5: that these were the four positions we're in. I just

1092
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:59,120
Speaker 5: gave something away spoil or alert. But I can tell

1093
01:06:59,160 --> 01:07:03,960
Speaker 5: you the best educated guests, based on all the information

1094
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:08,200
Speaker 5: that's been provided, the one thing I know one hundred

1095
01:07:08,240 --> 01:07:13,000
Speaker 5: percent for sure it was a conspiracy. There's no question

1096
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:17,600
Speaker 5: about that. There is no question about that this man

1097
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 5: Learvy Oswell did not do what they said he did.

1098
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 5: Did not happen that I know for a fact. Other

1099
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 5: than that exactly how it was put together. I can

1100
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 5: offer you what I think happened, and then you know,

1101
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:35,480
Speaker 5: we hopefully it'll spawn more discussion.

1102
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:39,760
Speaker 1: And that I think is our button, that is that

1103
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:45,479
Speaker 1: is leading us to the rest of the story. Rob,

1104
01:07:46,360 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. We're not blowing

1105
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 1: smoke when we say that this truly is, at least

1106
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:57,960
Speaker 1: in my opinion, a top notch, top caliber investigation, connecting

1107
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,000
Speaker 1: things in a way that they have not been connected

1108
01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,840
Speaker 1: did before to the point about puzzles, and you're taking

1109
01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:08,040
Speaker 1: on this herculean task right of unraveling an official narrative

1110
01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 1: that was forced upon the American and global public for

1111
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:15,720
Speaker 1: more than half a century, interrogating claims that have, for

1112
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 1: so often and for so long not been given the

1113
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:24,759
Speaker 1: scrutiny that they deserve. We are, as we said earlier,

1114
01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:29,000
Speaker 1: right there with everybody listening. We're tuning in as you

1115
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 1: answer the question who killed JFK? And you know, usually

1116
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:40,439
Speaker 1: at the end of these conversations we ask a question

1117
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:42,560
Speaker 1: that feels kind of odd to ask a creator of

1118
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:44,839
Speaker 1: your stature, but where.

1119
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,680
Speaker 5: What's your favorite color? What's your favorite color? What are icebreakers?

1120
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 2: What is is there?

1121
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:54,960
Speaker 1: I guess the way to to make this a little

1122
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 1: more bespoke is, sir, is there a way for people

1123
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: to reach out to you and your team if they,

1124
01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:06,080
Speaker 1: like Paul Landis, have additional information that might help us out.

1125
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 5: I mean, we we it's it's you know, it came

1126
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:12,640
Speaker 5: out through it's being released through iHeartRadio, and there's a

1127
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 5: team there that can field information. Listen. By the way,

1128
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:20,160
Speaker 5: I'm seventy six years old, and you know, I'm the last,

1129
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 5: maybe the last generation alive that will present this, and

1130
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:27,840
Speaker 5: I'm sure that there's going to be a lot more

1131
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,880
Speaker 5: information down the road that's going to come out. Like

1132
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,240
Speaker 5: I say, almost five thousand documents are still being witheld,

1133
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,759
Speaker 5: so we I'm hoping that we can keep this alive

1134
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:39,640
Speaker 5: long enough for all of us to find out the

1135
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:40,759
Speaker 5: exact truth.

1136
01:09:41,400 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 2: I gotta add really quickly, it looks like you're the

1137
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 2: exact same age as Stephen King. This obviously loomed very

1138
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:51,000
Speaker 2: large for him as well. Yeah, eleven sixty three. You know,

1139
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 2: we talked about comedians and satirists and science fiction and stuff,

1140
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 2: so many amazing ways that folks like that, who maybe

1141
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 2: you wouldn't immediately think can really shed light on this stuff.

1142
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:01,400
Speaker 2: I learned a lot of the stuff from that book,

1143
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 2: and a lot of it is historically accurate. Of course

1144
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 2: it's a work of fiction, but you know the yeah,

1145
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 2: same exact day, So no wonder this is something that

1146
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 2: has been on his mind in the same way. Yeah

1147
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 2: maybe if.

1148
01:10:11,439 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 5: You're eleven, But you never ever, ever will forget that

1149
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 5: where you that moment and how it affected you. It won't.

1150
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:20,560
Speaker 2: It doesn't get to stand by me too, didn't you?

1151
01:10:20,600 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: Did he direct stand by me? Well?

1152
01:10:22,000 --> 01:10:24,599
Speaker 5: I did direct stand by me. I also directed misery,

1153
01:10:24,640 --> 01:10:25,720
Speaker 5: which is a stand.

1154
01:10:26,479 --> 01:10:29,920
Speaker 2: And you're so boried in your output. I got forget sometimes.

1155
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 5: Castle Rock. We did seven Stephen King books.

1156
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,280
Speaker 3: Yep, we didn't even talk about LBJ from twenty sixteen

1157
01:10:38,439 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 3: and incredible.

1158
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we also talk about oh so many things, the

1159
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: conversations LBJ had in the wake of things Hoover. The

1160
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,360
Speaker 1: list goes on and on, and we're telling you, folks,

1161
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 1: the best way to get these answers. Anytime you were

1162
01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 1: hearing this conversation and you think, oh, Robin, the guys

1163
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 1: didn't get to the point, we promise you tune in

1164
01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: to who killed JFK. And let's keep to your point,

1165
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: mister Riiner. Let's keep the story alive every Wednesday. You

1166
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 1: know what a time, folks. We are super excited about

1167
01:11:16,160 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: who killed JFK. It really is as they said earlier,

1168
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:24,840
Speaker 1: it really is a top notch investigation. And my only

1169
01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 1: regret is that we didn't get to everything. But I

1170
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:32,160
Speaker 1: am pretty confident that Robin Solidad are going to get

1171
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 1: to most things in this one.

1172
01:11:33,960 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the level of detail in that show is astounding.

1173
01:11:38,680 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 3: You know, it's a weird line. Sometimes when we do

1174
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 3: an episode like this, we're promoted, like in a way

1175
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 3: promoting a show, right, but we're just having a conversation

1176
01:11:46,479 --> 01:11:49,840
Speaker 3: with someone talking about these topics. But just this show man,

1177
01:11:50,040 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 3: it's intense.

1178
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,040
Speaker 2: And also just to have someone who's as much of

1179
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,519
Speaker 2: a legend as Rob is, and I think we're all

1180
01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 2: fans of various facets of his work, and you know,

1181
01:12:00,600 --> 01:12:02,680
Speaker 2: it's one person who you can truly say as a

1182
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:07,440
Speaker 2: gentleman and a scholar and a legendary director and humanitarian

1183
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 2: and just an overall good guy. I think we were

1184
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:13,759
Speaker 2: all blown away by his candor and generosity and just wow,

1185
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:15,639
Speaker 2: I'm still kind of reeling from.

1186
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:20,280
Speaker 1: That, and as Rob would say, the puzzle continues, the

1187
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: mystery unfolds. He gave us some light spoilers. We would

1188
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:29,240
Speaker 1: like to hear your thoughts, folks on what they rightly

1189
01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 1: call the greatest murder mystery in the history of the

1190
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:35,559
Speaker 1: United States. Let us know. We try to be easy

1191
01:12:35,640 --> 01:12:36,439
Speaker 1: to find online.

1192
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 2: That's right. You can find this at the handle conspiracy

1193
01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:45,000
Speaker 2: Stuff on x FKA, Twitter, YouTube, and also on Facebook

1194
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 2: where we have our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy.

1195
01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 2: Join in on the conversation there. If you wish, on

1196
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,200
Speaker 2: TikTok and Instagram, you can find us at the handle

1197
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 2: conspiracy Stuff Show. But wait, there's more.

1198
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,640
Speaker 3: Oh, there's more. Hey on the YouTube front, if you

1199
01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 3: maybe subscribe to it a long time ago, make sure

1200
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 3: you head over there again and you put alerts on

1201
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,280
Speaker 3: basically because there's gonna be a ton of stuff coming

1202
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 3: there in the near future, so just keep a lookout.

1203
01:13:10,720 --> 01:13:13,400
Speaker 3: If you want to call us, we also have a

1204
01:13:13,520 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 3: phone number. It's one eight three three std WYTK and

1205
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:20,360
Speaker 3: when you call in you leave a voicemail. You get

1206
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 3: three minutes, give yourself a cool nickname and say whatever

1207
01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,200
Speaker 3: you'd like. Just please let us know if We can

1208
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:27,599
Speaker 3: use your name and voice on one of our listener

1209
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 3: mail episodes, and hey, if you want to send us

1210
01:13:31,160 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 3: other things, links, all kinds of good stuff, you can

1211
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:34,759
Speaker 3: also send us an email.

1212
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:37,840
Speaker 1: We read every single email we get. Where we are

1213
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:40,639
Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1214
01:13:59,400 --> 01:13:59,960
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't.

1215
01:14:00,000 --> 01:14:02,640
Speaker 3: What Want You to Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1216
01:14:03,000 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1217
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,080
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.