1
00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:19,400
Speaker 1: The Armstrong and Getty Show vice president who died. Yes,

2
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:26,800
Speaker 1: we're still on the air bound. So much for tuning in.

3
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,240
Speaker 1: I wish we could have done this together, and it's

4
00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:32,240
Speaker 1: gotten a one more smoothly. But but I'm grateful we're

5
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: able to connect virtually. Man, that is a long pause.

6
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,880
Speaker 1: Uh So we are lucky enough that not only is

7
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,120
Speaker 1: Lonnie Chin great to talk about every week with politics

8
00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 1: and all kinds of different stuff, but one of his

9
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,720
Speaker 1: areas of expertise is he's worked on a couple of

10
00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,000
Speaker 1: presidential campaigns, and I want to know what he thinks

11
00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,800
Speaker 1: of this one. Lonie Chen is with the Hoover Institution

12
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,520
Speaker 1: Stanford University. In fact, he heads up their public policy

13
00:00:57,560 --> 00:00:59,880
Speaker 1: department there and joins us, Now, Lonnie, how are you, sir?

14
00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:06,760
Speaker 1: Are we on yet? I don't. I don't know if

15
00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,240
Speaker 1: you watched any or all of the Joe Biden town hall,

16
00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,200
Speaker 1: But is his whole campaign is floundering as it seems?

17
00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:19,319
Speaker 1: Or am I overstating it or what's your take on it? Well? Look,

18
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean I think it's tough. On the one hand, right,

19
00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,080
Speaker 1: you can't break through at a campaign when you have

20
00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,560
Speaker 1: a pandemic that's occupying everyone's attention. That having been said,

21
00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,800
Speaker 1: you've got to get your you've got to get good

22
00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,640
Speaker 1: swings in when you're at the plate, and these swings

23
00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,920
Speaker 1: they're taking are like massive whish. Well, here's what here's

24
00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,559
Speaker 1: what I don't get. I don't get with the Democrats ever,

25
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 1: on the problem of audio visual because every creative person

26
00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 1: in America that there are people that make gazillions of

27
00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 1: dollars a year making motion pictures, who would volunteer their

28
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: time to Democratic candidate to beat Trump. Why don't they

29
00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,640
Speaker 1: hire one of them to get the microphone right for

30
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,320
Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton or the camp or the lighting right for

31
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,840
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Why don't they do that? Well, it's an

32
00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 1: amazing thing. I mean you you guys mentioned sort of

33
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: presidential campaigns and how this usually works. I mean, it

34
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,000
Speaker 1: is generally the case that before you do an event

35
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:16,040
Speaker 1: involving the candidate like this, you you will have tested it.

36
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,880
Speaker 1: You will have made sure the candidate understands exactly when

37
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,440
Speaker 1: they're supposed to come out, what it's gonna look like.

38
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 1: And yes, accidents do happen. I don't want to make

39
00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,560
Speaker 1: it sound like everything perfect, but usually you've got the

40
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 1: technology down and you've got an exact run of show.

41
00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,400
Speaker 1: And the fact that this happened, I mean, it is

42
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 1: either the case that Biden is just out of it

43
00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:40,480
Speaker 1: or his campaign is committing malpractice one of those two things,

44
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,040
Speaker 1: and neither is good. Would it be reasonable to assume

45
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:49,160
Speaker 1: people were being screamed at at the end of that thing? Oh? Yes, unquestionably, unquestionably.

46
00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,239
Speaker 1: I mean this is not the first town hall they've done,

47
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,280
Speaker 1: by the way, which has been you know, kind of

48
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,639
Speaker 1: kind of weird or had elements of it that that,

49
00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,440
Speaker 1: you know, indicate that that was not well planned. Four.

50
00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:02,360
Speaker 1: So this is not the first time it's happened. This

51
00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,280
Speaker 1: was just probably the most extreme example of it. But

52
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,680
Speaker 1: we are in May of an election year. Uh, these

53
00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,240
Speaker 1: guys need to get their act together pretty quickly because

54
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,440
Speaker 1: these are the kinds of unforestaers. I mean, if you're

55
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: gonna beat an incumbent president, you need to be firing

56
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,680
Speaker 1: at all cylinders. I don't care how you know how

57
00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,360
Speaker 1: much people think stuff does Trump Trump does is unpopular.

58
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:24,639
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, it's hard to beat

59
00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,079
Speaker 1: an incumbent president, and these guys are not going to

60
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,000
Speaker 1: be able to do it with this. You know, two

61
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,240
Speaker 1: cents show they're running now well, especially if your argument

62
00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:38,280
Speaker 1: is competence, steadfast leadership, preparedness, and the one thing you

63
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 1: must avoid is the appearance of being dottering. I mean

64
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:46,720
Speaker 1: that was over four anyway, Lani Chen David and Diane

65
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,440
Speaker 1: Stephy research fellow whoever institution? Uh, Jack, do you have

66
00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,480
Speaker 1: another politics question? Because I really want to get onto

67
00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,280
Speaker 1: the civil liberties thing with lan He who is the

68
00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:02,120
Speaker 1: director of Domestic Policies Studies that stands. This period is

69
00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:06,000
Speaker 1: to me one of the real turning points in UM

70
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 1: looking at executive power, specifically governor's executive power and as

71
00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:14,840
Speaker 1: opposed to local control and UH and states of emergency

72
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,240
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. What's what's your take briefly

73
00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,159
Speaker 1: on what's happening. Yes, governors have a tremendous amount of power,

74
00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,200
Speaker 1: and actually even more than that, you know, pretty much

75
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,400
Speaker 1: all of the authorities that are dealing with these public

76
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,000
Speaker 1: health matters, even the local county health authorities may have

77
00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of ability to essentially effectuate whatever policy

78
00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,560
Speaker 1: they want. There's no real UH mechanism for appeal. There's

79
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,000
Speaker 1: no real mechanism for someone to come in and to

80
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,680
Speaker 1: check them. It is the expansion of executive power in

81
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,599
Speaker 1: a way that we haven't seen, I think in a

82
00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,640
Speaker 1: long time. And we always knew that executive power was

83
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 1: at its zenis was at its height when there is

84
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,400
Speaker 1: a state of emergency. There's a lot of research that

85
00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,960
Speaker 1: shows that. But what we're seeing in places like California,

86
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 1: in Michigan else Square, where people are are starting to

87
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 1: get a little bit frustrated with these governors are doing,

88
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:09,960
Speaker 1: is that governors really are exercising a scope and amount

89
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 1: of power that we've not seen recently. So there's good

90
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,599
Speaker 1: reason to be concerned about not just what that means

91
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,040
Speaker 1: for now, but what it means for going forward as

92
00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 1: we try and deal with the the after effects of

93
00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 1: the peak of this virus. Right, you mentioned civil liberties.

94
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,160
Speaker 1: One issue is how much authority are we going to

95
00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,720
Speaker 1: give governors, for example, to track our movements, to track

96
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:32,560
Speaker 1: where we're going, who we've interacted with, what that looks like.

97
00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 1: These are very real and very important questions. Well, you're

98
00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,279
Speaker 1: a lawyer, and lawyers often look at just you know,

99
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,360
Speaker 1: what's legal and what's not legal, but how about what

100
00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,800
Speaker 1: you can pull off? I just wonder if you reach

101
00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,279
Speaker 1: a point where people just say sorry, we ain't listening anymore.

102
00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:46,520
Speaker 1: We just ain't gonna listen to you anymore. And then

103
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 1: what are you doing? And you know, how far do

104
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: you want to push so you don't end up at

105
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,040
Speaker 1: that breaking point? Well, that's a great question. I think

106
00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,960
Speaker 1: we're getting pretty close to that in some parts of California,

107
00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,520
Speaker 1: and certainly in some parts of California where it's pretty

108
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:03,080
Speaker 1: clear people you can maintain social distance because they've got uh,

109
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, just a lot more a lot more land

110
00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,120
Speaker 1: than they do in a place like downtown San Francisco,

111
00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 1: let's say, for example, and they're saying, look, why should

112
00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,440
Speaker 1: we abide by the same restrictions that everybody else is

113
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,040
Speaker 1: abided by? And in terms of how it gets enforced,

114
00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 1: the answer is, you know, will governors actually go to

115
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 1: the extent of calling on state troopers or in California,

116
00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,039
Speaker 1: the Highway patrol to enforce their dictates? And and are

117
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 1: the how are the police going to feel about that?

118
00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,200
Speaker 1: You know, I think it's an interesting question. We haven't

119
00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,040
Speaker 1: gotten there yet, and I hope we don't, But it's

120
00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,839
Speaker 1: an interesting question about how people react and respond when

121
00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,039
Speaker 1: the state really uses its power to enforce what it wants.

122
00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,839
Speaker 1: We have Elon Musk saying we're reopening the Tesla plant

123
00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,400
Speaker 1: in the defiance of Alameda Counties. Dictates that we've received

124
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,400
Speaker 1: emails on he from multiple peace officers saying there is

125
00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:54,919
Speaker 1: no way I'm going to kick kids off a player

126
00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,440
Speaker 1: for instance, there say that we have no cases in

127
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,840
Speaker 1: this part of the country. Um, there's no risk I'm

128
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,560
Speaker 1: being called and told to bust. You know, fourteen year

129
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:06,200
Speaker 1: olds who are skateboarding not gonna do it. So that

130
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:10,840
Speaker 1: is a that's a pretty significant breakdown of authority. It

131
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,360
Speaker 1: is and and and we're but the problem is we're

132
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,640
Speaker 1: putting these peace officers, were putting these these people who

133
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,720
Speaker 1: are laying their lives on the line to protect us

134
00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:22,240
Speaker 1: every day, we're putting them in an awful position. Lan

135
00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:24,320
Speaker 1: he I'm afraid we've got to end there. I missed

136
00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,320
Speaker 1: the time. Que We've got about fifteen seconds left with

137
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,600
Speaker 1: lan he Chen of the whoever institution, Stanford University. Hey,

138
00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:31,600
Speaker 1: we sure appreciate the time as always great to do

139
00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: with the things. If this thing comes back strong in

140
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,520
Speaker 1: the fall and they try to clamp down again, I

141
00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 1: don't know if people are gonna listen and well, they've

142
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,720
Speaker 1: blown their credibility in a lot of cases. Yeah, well

143
00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 1: that's why you've got to be so careful with that.

144
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,000
Speaker 1: With the empower, are strong and