WEBVTT - Happy Half Hour Episode 148: America's Long Snapper 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.400 This week on a Happy Half Hour. 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.800 There's probably nobody that I've played with in my career 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:12.800 that would be better suited for daddy daycare than Luke. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.800 One of your theories is that dudes need quest. One 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:18.200 of my quests in life is to find something that 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:19.479 Luke Keigley stinks at. 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:21.759 Yeah, I think that that might be a long quest. 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:23.520 What's the cow? 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:31.000 It's time for the Happy Half Hour, presented by Southern Star, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:37.360 an official bourbon of the Carolina Panthers. Here are your hosts, 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:39.920 Darren Gant and Cassidy Hill. 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:47.680 Hello, friends, and welcome to a very special episode of 0:00:47.680 --> 0:00:51.320 the Happy Half Hour. Normally Cassidy Hill would be sitting 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:53.320 here in the other chair, but she's a mobile on 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.840 special assignment covering the senior ball for Panthers dot Com. 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:01.040 So I went to the bullpen, got a very special 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.600 guest for the Happy Half Hour and listen, our friends. 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:08.080 The Happy Half Hours, always presented by a Southern Star, 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.399 an official bourbon partner of the Carolina Panthers, celebrate the 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.160 spirit of the Carolinas. You can celebrate it double this 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:17.600 week because this week's very special co host is none 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:21.959 other than America's long snapper, The longest tenured Carolina Panther, 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:24.200 or the man who holds the record for games played, 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:25.839 which he breaks every single week. 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:26.320 Jay J. 0:01:26.560 --> 0:01:28.000 Janssen, how are you, sir? 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.080 Thanks for having me. It's the off season, so I'm 0:01:31.120 --> 0:01:33.839 a little upset that we're not sipping on bourbon while 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.039 doing the podcast. That'd really make for some fun. 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:38.560 We actually are, as far as the listeners know. 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:39.640 That's fair enough. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:43.440 So it's a great product and it's a you know, 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:46.080 I'm hoping we can have a little fun here with 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.600 this conversation because, as you mentioned, it is off season 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:53.240 and we get in these you know, kind of formatted roles. Okay, 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:56.200 we know on Wednesday this week during the regular season, 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.600 we're doing this this this during the regular season. I 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.680 like to kind of take it in different So naturally 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.120 you're here, you are. You are one of my favorite 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.560 people in this building to talk to in any format, 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:11.400 but especially now. I mean it's off season. You know, 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.639 we'll get to free agency and all that other stuff 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:16.320 at some point, but right now it's kind of that 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.720 one weird time of the year where football people are 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:20.400 sitting around not knowing what to do. 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:26.160 Yes, so early on in my career, my wife would 0:02:26.160 --> 0:02:28.280 always say something like, you know, two or three weeks 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.760 into the off season, she'd say, you know, you're starting 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.720 to act a little bit bored. You need to find 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.760 something to do. And I've learned now over the years 0:02:36.800 --> 0:02:39.640 and gone by. Our season, you know, ends on a 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.720 Sunday afternoon, we come back, we do an extra interview 0:02:42.760 --> 0:02:46.160 with with coaches in front office on Monday, and by 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:48.520 Tuesday morning at ten am, I was bored. Like I 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.560 just knew I was gonna be bored eventually. I needed 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.680 something to do. I'd need a routine to look forward to. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:56.160 So I just basically said, you know, whatever that was, 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.560 you know, January third or whatever, you know, January seventh, 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.200 every the season, at whatever that date was, I just said, 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.040 I'm immediately now bored, and I need to find some 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.280 stuff to sink my teeth into. I'm not gonna wait 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:09.200 two or three, two or three weeks to then decide that, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.000 you know, I'm you know, I'm actually bored. So this 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:14.840 is fun for me. Normally, on a you know, normally 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:16.959 on a Tuesday or I guess we're recording this on 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:18.880 a Wednesday. Normally, on a Wednesday, at noon, we're out 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:22.119 on the practice field, mm hmm. You know what, now 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:24.400 that it's wintertime, I don't mind being out here because 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.560 there was a few col practices down the stretch in 0:03:26.560 --> 0:03:27.320 the regular season. 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:31.040 No doubt, have you ever considered like woodworking or no 0:03:31.680 --> 0:03:34.800 any kind of hand crafts that you might be able 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.040 to busy yourself with. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.840 No, so, so I do. I do think men need hobbies. 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:41.640 I do think men need some activities. So my off 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:46.440 season activities have been primarily constructed into two things. It's 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.760 been buying minor league hockey teams m with with some 0:03:50.840 --> 0:03:53.800 partners that we've been working with now for coming up 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:57.280 on two years, and also taking a plethora of baseball 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.200 swings off of our We have this little uh it's 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.800 called like a personal pitcher or something along those lines, 0:04:03.160 --> 0:04:06.960 shoots golf balls out of a standing machine on a 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.960 tripod at you know, forty five to fifty miles an 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.160 hour from twenty to twenty five feet and I work 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:14.800 on my swing. And I figured, if Andy Dalton can 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.760 go play tennis and feeling can go play golf, I'll 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:21.400 go hit a bunch of baseballs in my garage and 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.160 that'll keep my hand eye coordination up for the offseason. 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:26.599 At least while it's too cold to get outside and 0:04:26.600 --> 0:04:27.520 play golf or something like that. 0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:29.200 It at least keeps you ready for the next home 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:30.839 run derby during time I'm ready. 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:33.320 We do about a home run derby once every six years, 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:35.360 and I'm the two time defending champ. Of course, that 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:39.800 lasts over about a thirteen year span, so yeah, I'll 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:42.880 stay ready. And of course, as everyone knows, Olsen and 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:46.400 I coach baseball together, so part of the thing that 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.800 I'm always trying to do is trying to understand, in 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:52.600 all honesty, what they're feeling so I can coach it better. 0:04:53.040 --> 0:04:56.520 And I think there's a value in coaches and teachers 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.680 doing the material while they're teaching it, because you start 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:05.840 running into the problems that your athletes are are dealing with. 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:08.400 You know, we often, you know, I've got a sixth 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:11.000 grader or fourth grader or second grader, kindergartener right they're 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.760 doing math homework. Well, that is so rudimentary to me. 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:19.159 I can't feel why that's challenging to them. So you know, 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:21.039 you end up looking at them like, why can't you 0:05:21.080 --> 0:05:23.840 figure this out? So I figured as often as I can, 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.880 let me go humble myself take some swings off of 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.120 a machine, try to get go and take some ground balls, 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:33.440 you know, you know, throw to targets, and remind myself 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:36.400 that any athletic venture is pretty challenging, especially if you 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:38.880 don't do it often, especially if you haven't been, you know, 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:42.000 like me trained in long snapping for twenty years. You 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.760 realize kids are just picking it up or still young 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.719 and growing in their bodies. There's a lot of challenge 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.440 and skill, and so there's a humility and in taking 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.680 a live at bat versus a twelve year old and 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.360 maybe swinging missing a few times, you realize these games 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:00.000 are pretty challenging, even at my age. 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:04.640 Yeah, your life really is a sitcom. I told you 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:06.440 this the other week. You said you were going away 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.240 for the weekend with your wife. I said, who's keeping 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.440 the kids. You're like, I may leave him with Luke 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.040 or Greg And it was like, your life is a sitcom. 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:15.960 You say these things just very casually, like it's a 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.679 thing everybody does, except the people you drop your kids 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:20.120 off with, or Luke Keigley and Gregil. 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:23.320 That's right. There's probably nobody that I've played with in 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:27.880 my career that is would be better suited for you know, 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.520 daddy daycare than Luke. Of course, you know, you know, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.719 he's still he's still single. So we're working on we're 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:37.480 working on all that. But between him and Greg, I mean, 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.279 we we do a lot of things together, right We've 0:06:40.320 --> 0:06:43.039 got the you know, we've got the baseball team. They're 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:46.000 doing the football thing. We we do a lot of 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:48.919 our life kind of in the same orbits, and so 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:52.039 our kids have sort of learned over the years that 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.440 they're just kind of part of the family in various ways. 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:59.520 And Greg brings kids home from sporting events and you know, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:02.640 Luke Luke might show up and cook pizzas on the 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:06.200 nie as it's happened a few times. So everyone's kind 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:08.560 of got their own little skills and orbits. And you know, 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:14.120 to my kids, that's coach Greg and we call him 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.160 Big Luke because my oldest son's named Luke. We call 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.080 Luke Keigley Big Luke. And my daughter, who's in second 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.880 grag calls him the man in the Jacket because the 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.040 first time she really met him, he showed up at 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:25.520 our house. It was a really rainy day and he 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.480 had he had a big old jacket on, and my 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:30.920 daughter called him the man in the jacket, and until 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:32.880 this day he is still known as the man in 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.160 the jacket in our house. So doubt they're just part 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:35.640 of the family. 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:38.760 Yeah, totally normal. I've said I kind of hate Luke 0:07:38.840 --> 0:07:42.040 Keighley in some ways because A he's so polite and 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.640 so gracious, and so he's well mannered, well mannered. He 0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:49.520 was raised well. His family should be proud they raised 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.040 a good boy. But he does all this and he 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:53.520 just kind of rolls out of the bed and he's 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:55.800 perfect at whatever he does. When he started doing radio, 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:57.360 he was like, I don't really know if I'm man 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.320 good it is, and people who heard the first couple 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.160 of games were like, oh, you're actually great at it, 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.160 which kind of figures, which leads me to this question. 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.080 You and Greg coach baseball together. Does Luke Keikley have 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:09.560 a decent baseball swing? 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.040 I don't know. I've never seen I've never seen Luke 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.760 swing a bat. Yeah, but I have to I have 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.720 to laugh though, because he's just an unbelievable person. There 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:21.600 have been many games where he just showed up. He 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.400 texted one of us during the week say Hey, are 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:26.040 you playing baseball? Like, oh, yeah, we're at you know, 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.239 ten and two, and he had just look up online 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:31.640 where we're playing and show up at the field and 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:33.959 just sit in the bleachers with the moms and the 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:37.040 dads and cheer the kids on and get a pretzel 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:40.400 and leave, leave after a couple hours. And he just 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.560 part just in the group with everybody else. So I've 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.800 never seen Luke swing a bat. I can only imagine 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:49.040 he'd be fantastic at it, because to your point, I 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.480 think he's just he's one of these incredibly gifted athletes. 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:55.280 But I know he played a lot of lacrosse. I 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:57.080 don't know if he played a lot of baseball growing up. 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.000 So I'll have to I'll have to dig deep on that. 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.680 Yeah, I've got friends who swim. And when Luke decided 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:03.600 he was bored the other off season wanted to run 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:07.079 a triathlon, all my friends over at the MAC were like, Yeah, 0:09:07.120 --> 0:09:08.559 he just comes in and he's hanging out in the 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:10.840 locker room, Like, hey, guys, I'm Luke. Yeah, we know 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.600 who you are, Luke, but he just does that. You 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.480 have talked. One of your theories is that dudes need quest. 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:19.640 One of my quests in life is to find something 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:21.240 that Luke Keigley stinks at. 0:09:21.720 --> 0:09:24.040 Yeah, I think that that might be a long quest. Right, 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.400 we have these, you know, my wife and I say, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.760 you got your quests, You've got your side quests that 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:31.360 might go along with it, and every once in a 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.679 while a mini quest which might you know, take maybe 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:37.480 take ten minutes or fifteen minutes. But in my opinion, 0:09:37.520 --> 0:09:41.679 men really really appreciate quests. That one might be one 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.080 of the long ones, because I don't know that Luke's 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:46.320 bad at a whole lot of other stuff. A word 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.280 I heard not too long ago, let's call it six 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:51.840 months ago that I really enjoyed was the word earnest. 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:56.280 And Luke is an earnest person. He is kind, he 0:09:56.440 --> 0:10:00.520 is intentional. Anything that he does he set his mind 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.600 too to be the very best at, and even if 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.400 it's not super important to him, he takes it seriously 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:08.600 because it's important to the people he's doing it with. 0:10:08.760 --> 0:10:10.960 You know, I would venture to guess the first time 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.160 he ever walked into to do a radio game for 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:14.920 the Panthers, he might not have known do I love it, 0:10:15.640 --> 0:10:17.599 But he knew that the people working with him and 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.400 around him took it very seriously, so he wasn't going 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.920 to be casual about it, and and you know so 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:26.000 that I think that obviously suits him really well. It 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:30.160 was fantastic for football. But it's again, there are people 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.200 that believe how you do one thing is how you 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.120 do everything, and I think he would certainly be a 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:38.240 fitting example of that when it comes to taking things seriously. 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:42.160 Yeah, one of your other roles, in addition to hockey owner, 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:47.560 baseball coach, long snapper, America's long snapper, is you are 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.320 part of Greg Olsen's support staff. You like to help 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:55.400 Greg with statistical preparation, his analytics stuff for his broadcasting career. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:57.920 And this is what I noticed the other weekend. Greg's 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.160 not calling games during the playoffs, says you may. I've 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.200 heard some guy named Tom Brady instead. I don't know 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.800 if that's your thing suit yourself. I think Greg's a 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.000 lot better at it. But you've always helped Greg with this. 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:13.600 You guys were just bored the other weekend and through it, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:14.040 weren't you. 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.360 Well, this has been sort of evolving for years and 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.720 years and years, and I've joked with many people the 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:23.040 stuff that rolls off of Greg's tongue now on a 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.800 broadcast or on a national show he and I would 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.959 argue about six seven, eight years ago when we played together. 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:35.200 He's he and I have always talked strategy and situations, 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:38.000 and you know, I've learned a ton from him about 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:40.880 offense and defense and all that stuff. So we're always 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:42.480 kind of going back and forth. And this has kind 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.679 of gone on for again, going all the way back 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:46.599 to when we were both playing here in seventeen and 0:11:46.679 --> 0:11:48.480 eighteen nineteen. Why do we do this? He'd come up 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:50.440 to me, Why do we do that? Why did the specialty? 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.400 We have always exchanged information. And I don't know if 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:55.440 you've heard, but Greg was a long snapper for so yeah, 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:58.600 he knows just enough to be dangerous. I know nothing 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:00.439 to be dangerous, but I played often of line in 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:03.160 high school, so I have a little bit of understanding. 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:04.760 So we kind of started from there and we just 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.080 kind of keep growing and and so one of the 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.720 things that that I've done is his broadcast career has 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.440 continue to grow, is just kind of help continue to 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:17.439 kind of grow with him in terms of preparation, research, 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:21.320 thinking of new ways to explain concepts that you know, 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.960 every year in the NFL there's tons of new concepts, 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:28.040 ideas that might be strategy, it might be analytics, it 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.880 might be a use of timeouts. There's it's constantly evolving. 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:36.280 There's more and more information. And one of the things 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.840 that I think is really kind of special is that 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.200 he's willing to just keep growing and growing and growing. 0:12:41.280 --> 0:12:43.760 His parents were both teachers. I have a heart of 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:46.080 a teacher. I really believe in his heart. And he's 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.040 a coach and a teacher. So he goes on a 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.800 national broadcast and he wants to teach football, and I 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:53.200 love teaching football and I love learning football. So there's 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:57.240 been a natural connection for the two of us, and 0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.640 that obviously there's still great games going on right now, 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:02.000 and there's a lot of people. I think the people 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.400 that really love Gregan on broadcasts are the ones that say, 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:05.720 I'm going to tune in and I'm going to get 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.360 a great broadcast, but I'm gonna walk away learning two 0:13:09.440 --> 0:13:11.640 or three things about football. And it might be a situation, 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:15.080 it might be an arc release, you know, from the 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.120 tight end. It might be did why did this play work? 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:20.560 Versus man's own? And I just learn a little bit more? 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:22.520 And I watched his broadcasts and did I learn a 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:27.040 little bit more? And so yeah, certainly playoff games everyone's watching, 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.120 and there were some great situations and and uh, and 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:31.760 he went to work on trying to begin to at 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:33.960 least explain one or two. So the fan walks away 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:35.040 a little bit more knowledgeable. 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.800 Yeah, you guys, I could tell one of the things 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:39.960 that kind of got under your crawl over the weekend 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.679 was chasing two point conversions. And again I commit this 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:49.280 from a anecdotal historical perspective, because I was sitting in 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.440 a press box at Super Bowl thirty eight when John Fox, 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.840 who wasn't necessarily an analytical type, started chasing them early 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:01.120 and got stuck in that pattern with how did how 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.040 did you guys get to the point or let me 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.320 ask you like this, when did you realize that that 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.120 was the wrong way to go about this immediately? 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:15.160 But it's situational, so so in this particular case, I 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:19.600 believe the score was it was fourteen six, and I think, yep, 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:22.640 I'm trying to remember. It can't take a couple. It 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.480 came a couple of times. And this is the Washington game, right, 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.800 because something similar came up in the in the Chiefs bills. 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:30.440 But so it was fourteen six, but it was in 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:34.520 the second quarter. And you know, Greg is known very 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.520 much as being the super aggressive analytics guy. And I 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.480 think where he gets a lot of pushback from other 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:43.040 analysts is or work. Maybe not pushback, but where he 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.640 differentiates from a lot of analystss A lot of analysts 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.960 are still trained in sort of this old quote unquote 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.560 old school football mentality, and so he's viewed as aggressive. 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.840 And where he and I have always tried to discuss 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:59.360 these things is optimal does not mean aggressive. It's trying 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.440 to make the right decision at the right time. And 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:05.280 one of the things that coaches tend to do is 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:08.360 they don't like certain numbers. They don't like being down 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.320 too that feels after a touchdown, So the score goes 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:15.440 from fourteen six to fourteen twelve, in their mind, they 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.400 think to themselves, oh, I go for two here, because 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.320 that's what we always do. What made that situation different 0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:24.880 was we were in the second quarter. And the way 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:28.920 we describe early game situations is you're in a point 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:32.960 accumulation phase of the game. The goal is how many 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.240 points can I score? And what's the best way to 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.680 score points? Is it a field goal, is it a touchdown, 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.920 is it a two is it a one. I actually 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.080 like going for two and going for two more often 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.720 than most people. I think it's actually tends to be 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.840 the right decision. But in that particular case, I believe 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.520 and Greg made the same point. Dan Quinn only went 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.360 for two because he was down two to make it 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.520 a tie game, not because he thought this is the 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:01.400 best time for me to go for two. That begins 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:03.960 to pivot as you get later in the game where 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:07.120 you're running out of possessions and you're hoping to turn 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.840 that kicking a pat in the fourth quarter to go 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:12.720 down one. Well, now you're still losing, and if the 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.920 game ends and nobody, nobody else scores, you lost, whether 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:18.360 you're down to or one. That's why teams go so 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:20.880 and the I think I retweeted it was like an 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.720 old account is called the analytics straw Man, and I tweeted, 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.200 always go for two. You know, you know the quote 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.320 is from analytics, always go for two. And the answer 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:32.440 is no, it isn't. It's not always the right answer. 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.960 If it was fifteen twelve, you wouldn't necessarily feel that 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:37.240 same compulsion too. 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:37.960 No, you wouldn't. 0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:40.840 Knowing you can't tie it, You probably just you know, 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:44.600 if you're in that quote unquote traditional football mindset, you're 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.040 probably just kicking taking the point. 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:47.720 So like one of the things you saw this year 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.040 with the new touchback, or with the new kickoff, or 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.840 with the dynamic kickoff, is there was no real benefit 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:58.200 to taking a kickoff a fifteen yard personal foul after 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:01.040 a touchdown on the kickoff. Historically, that's what everybody did, right, 0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.000 I'll kick my I'll kick my pat and then I'll 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:05.480 kick off from the fifty and try to pin you 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:08.720 down inside the you know, inside the twenty and try 0:17:08.720 --> 0:17:11.240 to get some field position. With the way the rules 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.119 set up, there wasn't really a big advantage. So everybody 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:16.080 put the ball at the one this year and everybody 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.480 went for two. But I think what you would have 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.840 seen it, let's say the score had been fifteen twelve, 0:17:21.480 --> 0:17:23.439 is let's put the ball on the one and go 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.280 for two. Whether they got it or not, that was 0:17:25.320 --> 0:17:29.400 the right decision in the point accumulation phase. But if 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:33.159 the game is in the fourth quarter and it's fifteen twelve, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.880 the question is whether I get this game to two 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.720 or one, I still need a field goal to win, 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:42.280 and I don't get any benefits so which thing, which 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.800 option is most likely to get me under three, and 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:48.280 which case the pat would be most likely to get 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:50.400 me under three, because I think this year the number 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.360 was like ninety six percent. So as my wife often says, 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.119 you've said too many numbers. You need to move on. 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.840 But the idea is there is different phases of the 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.000 game that require different things analytically, and the answer in 0:18:02.080 --> 0:18:04.399 analytics is not always go for it, and it's not 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.439 always go for too, and it's not always throw. But 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:13.600 teams tend to have historically aired on the quote conservative 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.119 side when that hasn't maybe been optimal and the or 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:19.679 in the case of Dan Quinn in Washington, maybe we 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.720 saw the flip, which was it was aggressive but not 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.080 necessarily optimal. 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:28.720 Right. I can imagine your wife sending you to the 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.760 grocery store to buy milk and you coming home with 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.480 a two gallon jug of milk, not because you need 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:37.280 two gallons of milk, but because it was the optimal 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:42.080 price of That's right, Yes, I only needed a pint. 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.240 That's right. There are there are well, I'll I have 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.520 to say, there are some things that I'm very anetically 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:49.679 analytically minded, and there are sometimes like it doesn't. It 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.639 doesn't really matter football, baseball, sports. I'm trying to solve 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:57.639 puzzles because there's a It's a little bit like I 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:01.359 stopped playing Monopoly once I figuregured out how you're like, 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.560 how the game's designed for you to really sort of win. 0:19:03.920 --> 0:19:08.720 The beauty of analytics is it's a little bit of 0:19:08.760 --> 0:19:13.120 market inefficiencies. So it's always changing, you know. I fell 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:15.919 in love like a lot, like a lot of math 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.400 nerds in college, I fell in love with the book Moneyball. 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:21.239 Everyone goes, I've seen the movie now. I was like, 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.280 you got to read the book, as people often say, 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:27.080 and I fell in love with that. But if you 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.880 remember from Moneyball, the goal was you're trying to find 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:33.119 people to walk, right. That was the market inefficiency. It 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.720