WEBVTT - Fear of Going Broke - Again: with Ron Starr + Dr. Brad Klontz 0:00:01.320 --> 0:00:03.800 My name is Alex, and I am terrified of going 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:11.680 broke again. No, no, all right, No, it will be 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:21.239 all right forever. No be al alright, no will be 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.560 all right for ever. Let's see, let's go all the 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:28.159 way back. I think it starts back when I was 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:32.080 even a kid, before I knew kind of how money worked. 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:35.639 My father was a very and still is a very 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:39.400 incredible real estate agent. I literally he could sell me 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.200 my own shirt back to me now as an adult, 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.479 he was an incredible real estate agent. And so growing up, 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:49.320 you know, him receiving awards and being so well known 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:52.480 for doing it. Um, that obviously also came with being 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:57.560 very fortunate to have massive birthday parties and Christmas is 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.000 and and all these amazing things. Because in two thousand eight, 0:01:01.080 --> 0:01:04.640 when the market crashed, my father, you know, did his 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.319 absolute best, and I think did an incredible job at 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:11.720 staying afloat and not letting it affect our family. And 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.199 a lot of people had a lot of really really 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:21.000 major setbacks, and um and we're super affected by the 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.280 market crash in two thousand and eight, including our family, 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.080 And so that kind of led long story short to 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.720 when we moved to Los Angeles, for my for my 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.920 music career. We all lived in a one bedroom apartment 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.080 and budgeting was a massive thing, and there were you know, 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.479 as soon as I started making money, I started directly 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.280 giving that money straight back to help support my family 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.679 because I knew the sacrifices that my family made, there 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:49.240 was no money amount that could ever repay that. So 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:51.559 I was just going to continuously give back and give 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:56.120 back and give back until I turned eighteen, and I 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:59.440 realized that the money that I had made until that 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.840 point had kind of taken a pause, which I'll know 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:06.520 I can say that term now having lived on a 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:09.800 few more years. But once the money took a pause 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:12.799 and I realized that just because you've made money, you know, 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:14.680 it doesn't mean you will continue to make that same 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.800 amount of money at that same rate, I in essence 0:02:19.240 --> 0:02:22.120 kind of became broke again, like I can't like as 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:24.720 an adult, an eighteen year old kid, you know, having 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.560 already signed a publishing deal, had already gone on tours, 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.480 having already you know, worked with different brands. And this 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.280 was all before I guess to paint the picture, This 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.760 was all before my YouTube channel and my social media 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:39.880 was really really popping off we're talking about like I 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:43.320 had twenty thousand followers instead of two million followers on Instagram. 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.600 So even the money that I had made was not substantial, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.440 but whatever it was, it was now gone. And so 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:54.520 I think for those that year and a half, those 0:02:54.520 --> 0:02:58.240 two years where money was real, real tight, it sucked 0:02:58.320 --> 0:02:59.960 a lot. And I think we can all agree that 0:03:00.000 --> 0:03:02.120 when you do not have money, like the type of 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.160 not having money, like I was looking at my bank 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.760 account and getting meals paid for by friends and sleeping 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.680 on couches, and every time I would buy food, it 0:03:10.720 --> 0:03:13.440 was making sure I had enough for it. And again 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.760 that's not where the fear came from. The fear started 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.120 once I started making money again, I guess is to 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:22.160 now kind of jump forward that I started loving where 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.920 I was going or where I was so much so 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:29.720 that I created a massive fear of ever going back 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:32.840 to that point. Uh. And I think that that's impacted 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.320 my life in ways that I don't even recognize. You know, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.360 when I go to purchase something, every single time, I 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.160 always make sure, Okay, is this can I purchase this? 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:44.320 Can I afford this? Is this going to be the 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.000 thing that sets me back? Being broke is less of 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.120 the fear. The fear is more of like having to 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:52.280 go back. There's this lyric from from a John Bellian 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.000 song that I've I don't think I've related to a 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:57.520 lyric more, and that lyric is I spent four thousand 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.400 on the Martin mcflies, which are very expensive Nike shoe 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:03.279 and then the next line is, but I'm so petrified 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.200 of going broke. And it's kind of this back and 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.480 forth of relate to that line. So much so because 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.840 I was literally on eBay just now trying to outbid 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:16.000 for a Christian Dior cross body bag that fortunately I 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:18.599 got outbid for, because if I would have gotten it, 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:20.520 I immediately would have been like, can I afford this? 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.440 Is this okay? Is this bad? Um? So literally that 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:26.520 fear has hit me even to today. But that got 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:29.719 me thinking, how common is this fear of being broke? 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:33.600 Where does this fear come from? And once you recognize 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:37.120 that you have it, how can you conquer that fear? Yeo, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:40.080 it's up. It's alex Iono and welcome back to my podcast. 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:42.719 Let's get into it where we really talk about everything 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.360 under the sun, and today we're talking about the fear 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.640 of going brow So I'm very very happy. I have 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.880 two amazing guests. One is a very very long time friend. 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.680 I trust him with my life. His name is Ron Star. 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.240 He is a financial advisor. We're gonna be with him 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.600 in just a minute, but he's got some here for us. 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:02.560 One is a brand new friend, and we're going to 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.839 speak to this brand new friend right now, Dr Brad Klantz. 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.719 He is a founder of the Financial Psychology Institute and 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.120 an Associate Professor of Practice in Financial Psychology at Creighton 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.560 University Hyder College of Business. I can't believe that I 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.400 read that without messing up or stumbling on my words. 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.560 He is a managing principle of Your Mental Wealth Advisers, 0:05:24.600 --> 0:05:28.000 a fellow of the American Psychological Association, and a former 0:05:28.040 --> 0:05:31.960 president of the Hawaii Psychological Association as well. He's worked 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.760 with major organizations like JP, Morgan Chase, and H and R. Block. 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:38.839 There's literally two more paragraphs of a bio on this man, 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:40.960 but I am going to let him speak for himself. 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.520 Dr Brad Klants, how are you, sir. I'm doing great. 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:46.559 It's a real pleasure to be here with you, meeting 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.640 you um and I'm really excited to talk about this topic. Obviously, 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.159 I hope you're excited to talk about this topic because 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.560 I feel like I might be the prime candidate to 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:57.960 be coming in to speak with you about my fears. Yeah, 0:05:58.040 --> 0:06:00.800 you know, your story is very compelling, end And a 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:02.560 lot of the research we've done has been on what 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.359 we call money scripts, and these are these beliefs we 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:08.600 have about money, and so I'm always curious about the 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:11.720 belief that underlines the fear. And for many people, and 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:13.279 you tell me if this fits for you, Alex, but 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.120 for many people, it's this fear, this belief that there 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.080 won't be enough money, which leads to this anxiety, the 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.720 sense of scarcity. Frankly, like the scarcity, it's not entirely 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:25.760 a mindset as much as it is an automatic thought 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.960 that pops in. And Um, what we know about that belief, 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:31.360 and we've done a lot of studies on that particular 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.560 belief pattern is it very often links to some history 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:39.720 of financial trauma. And sometimes this is trauma. Actually, when 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:42.120 you started your telling your story about you know your 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.960 father was doing great with money. Um, things were great. 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.480 I immediately thought, Okay, so maybe the trauma came from 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:49.720 your grandfather or great grandfather. I was already going up 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.520 the chain, because very often this stuff gets passed down 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:54.680 through the family systems. And then you told me about 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:57.880 two thousand and eight, and that was a major traumatic 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.719 experience for many, many people. And actually studies were done 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.680 back then, massive trauma across the globe, massive trauma, and 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.520 the lives of people in the United States this fear 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.000 of loss. And what's so interesting about trauma is your 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:14.640 brain decides that I'm going to do everything in my 0:07:14.720 --> 0:07:17.800 power to never let that happen again. And and this 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.040 is that lizard brain that keeps you up at night, 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:22.120 that wakes you up, that you know you click a 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:24.720 button and oh no, all these second thoughts come and 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.280 and flood you. And it's your brain saying, I'm never 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.280 gonna let this happen again. I'm gonna do whatever it 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:31.840 takes to not let this happen again. That's what happens 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:34.080 when we get traumatized. Our brain looks for ways to 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.560 make sure we survive. Okay, so you talk a lot 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.480 about money disorders, and I have some statistics here. Even 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.480 UM millennials are the most most likely to be pessimistic 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.400 of any age group about the future of the economy. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.840 UM like you're saying, you've spoken on that traumatic experiences 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:55.480 those disorders. Can you explain a little bit more on 0:07:55.800 --> 0:08:00.680 what exactly a money disorder is. So money disorder is 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:02.920 is sort of an umbrella term we used to describe 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.960 a self defeating financial behavior, and so there's many many 0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:10.520 ways that people defeat themselves. You just mentioned, um, what 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.000 happens to a lot of people who don't really have 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.000 the mindset associated with how to manage wealth, and all 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:17.360 of a sudden they get a bunch of money and 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.560 then of course they these terrible stories of UM celebrities 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:23.440 and lottery winners who then just blow off through all 0:08:23.440 --> 0:08:26.120 their money. And essentially what happens is they become so 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.400 anxious about having the money. So we all have this 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:32.199 financial comfort zone, which is an incredible concept where we're 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:35.440 we're pretty okay at that level. So we know it's 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.360 almost like a culture. We know what people wear, we 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.520 know what they do, we know what restaurants they go to, um, 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.320 we know what kind of cars they drive. We feel 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:46.440 comfortable and everyone has this layer of comfort. Once you 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.320 get put outside of that, it creates all sorts of stress. 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:50.800 Even if we think that it's going to make us 0:08:50.840 --> 0:08:53.240 happier and better. Right, we might actually want to have 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.880 more money, but what happens is we're thrust into another world. 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.000 It's almost like being an immigrant to a new country. 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:00.880 You don't know the custom, you don't know the culture, 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.200 you don't know who to ask for help, and it 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:07.160 becomes extremely disorienting for many people. Okay, and and and 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.520 in terms of money disorders? Are there different types of disorders? 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.320 Do some are there? Over? Are there the opposite of 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.240 me where it's like they actually have zero fear? Therefore, 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:19.760 how many disorders are we talking about when it comes 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.520 to money? Yeah, there's there's about about ten of them 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.280 that about identified. Um. And so it goes from underspending 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:31.120 where somebody who's so anxious about having money and you say, 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:32.800 this is something you battle inside of you, like there's 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.000 two parts of you, one parts like don't spend anything, 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.560 oh no, um, And it's it's sort of the classic 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.520 iconic ebone'z er scrooge mentality where you have so much 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:44.559 fear about money that you save a bunch of money, 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.920 but you never let yourself enjoy it. And we would 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.600 consider those people orders of money, and what they end 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:52.400 up doing is living a life of poverty, you know, 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.480 denying themselves healthcare, sometimes good experiences and all that because 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.720 they're so fearful about not having enough. And then you 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:01.960 have the average American, of course, who we could say 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.199 has a money disorder UM, where there were over spenders 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.360 and undersavers. This is sort of like this chronic thing 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:09.760 we have in the United States. Um. It's the keeping 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.079 up with the jones is it's and this this goes 0:10:12.120 --> 0:10:14.160 back to your lizard brain too, where we want to 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.600 feel like we belong. And we've all had this experience 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:18.600 on social media where you're looking and he's like, oh 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.120 my goodness, look at that car or look at that pool, 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.320 and all of a sudden we start to feel deprived, um, 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.800 which makes us want to go get more stuff. And 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.160 really that's us trying to survive within a tribe and 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.600 make sure that we have enough status. UM. So you 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:35.080 have people who get addicted to gambling and trading um, 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:38.040 as well as compulsive buying disorder all the way, the 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:43.440 things like workaholism, where we sacrifice family and health because 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:46.719 we're so focused on work. What's your advice for for 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:50.480 I feel like so many Americans battle this keeping up 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:52.199 with the Jones is I need to be up to date. 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:53.719 I need to have the newest iPhone, I need to 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.080 have the newest technology, the newest clothes, whatever it is, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.559 the hottest brands. But then also these emotions of like 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.360 liveing like I'm broke, saving for my future, recognizing that 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:06.839 right now America has given money away to just kind 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.240 of patch holes in this boat. You know, how do 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.800 we balance that for a young American? I think a 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:14.600 big part of it is just being aware of what's 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:17.560 happening to you inside your head and being aware that 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.760 we're extremely vulnerable to this. So it goes back to 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.480 sort of like think about caveman um days, where we 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.400 really are very much focused on our status within the tribe. 0:11:26.400 --> 0:11:28.800 Because if you're not paying attention to where you're stacking up, 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:30.920 you're you're gonna end up dying or getting kicked out 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:32.280 of the tribe. I mean, it's a matter of life 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.640 or death for that part of the brain. And so 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.000 there's been tons of studies down on this too. Our 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:40.720 happiness has much less to do with how much money 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.200 we actually have and the stuff we actually have, and 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.520 it's actually entirely based on how we compare ourselves to 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.520 other people. It's called relative deprivation. And so when we 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.480 see people who have a bunch of stuff we don't have, 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:54.480 it creates a sense of deprivation within us, and then 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:56.360 we don't feel like things are right, and then we 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.920 have more of a consumer mindset, like we want to 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.760 get stuff so that we feel better about ourselves. And 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.560 I think it's really important to just point this out, 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.199 that this is deeply rooted in the psychology of all 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.640 of us, because it's really easy to feel ashamed about 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:11.800 this and to like, you know, kick yourself because you 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.520 overspent and then feel really bad about it and beat 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.640 yourself up. But just understanding that this is a natural 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.120 impulse we all have and it's something that you have 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.080 to be conscious of or you're going to just overspend. 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.080 And that's what again, when I say the average American 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.640 has a money disorder, it's the average American tends to 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.680 be an overspender and not save money for the future. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:32.360 So to save money for the future, why is that 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.560 so hard? That goes against all of our wiring. Two. Um, 0:12:35.600 --> 0:12:37.559 that is a brand new concept. And let's go back 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:39.640 to that Caveman day. You couldn't like hoard a bunch 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.440 of stuff. You know, people would be really upset with you. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:43.840 You know, they would see you have all this stuff 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:45.920 and you're not sharing it. And so we have this 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:51.280 natural inhibition to save also because we're wired to consume 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.040 it now. So think about food. Back then, we couldn't 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:55.880 save food. So it's eat as much as you can. 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:58.040 I mean, this is why we have trouble maintaining our weight. 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:00.200 Your your brain is saying, eat as much as you can, 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.200 as often as you can, and not only that, but 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.319 the fattiest, most sugary stuff. This is what we need 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.040 to do to survive. So it's so interesting is that 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.240 the survival instincts that we all have that got us 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.560 to where we are as a species are the exact 0:13:13.600 --> 0:13:15.360 things that are biting us in the butt right now 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.079 when it comes to money and food and other things. Well, yeah, 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:19.680 I feel like on top of that, like you said, 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.560 it's like we're doing both. I feel like we're trying 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:24.600 to consume and eat and all of that, but then 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:26.880 we're also trying to save, and it's just like this 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:28.960 back and forth. At least that's where I am, like 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.240 I I literally I'm trying to save up so that 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.400 I can buy the original painting of my album artwork. 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.559 But then I'm on eBay trying to buy this this 0:13:39.760 --> 0:13:44.680 Christian Dior cross body bag, and after I lose the auction, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.800 I'm mad about it. And then I then that kind 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.240 of clarity comes where I'm like, dude, if you would 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:51.040 have bought that, you would have been you know that 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:53.480 a thousand dollars that it would have cost would now 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:56.640 go against this money that you've been trying to save. 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.719 It's really weird because you said it multiple times that 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.839 it's most Americans have this money disorder. Why then is 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.000 it so hard for us to stop making bad decisions? 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:10.560 It's it's you know, you described what happened in your brain. 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:14.640 That is exactly what happens. So essentially, our amygdala, which 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.640 is our emotional part of the brain, it gets all 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:20.440 excited or it gets all fearful about either wanting something, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.480 wanting to run with the herd, or afraid of scarcity 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.520 that's coming. And when we become emotionally charged like that, 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:30.160 we become rationally challenged. And literally what happens is the 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.600 part of your brain, the prefront of cortex that's involved 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.640 in like thinking this through, like what are the consequences, 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.120 delaying gratification. That part gets shut off when we're really 0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.320 excited or scared or happier. Man is shut off completely. 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:46.000 And then what happens is when you calm down, it 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:48.800 comes back online. And that's when you're like, on, oh 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:50.520 my goodness, I can't believe I did it, or I'm 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:52.560 so glad I didn't do that. Well, I think we've 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:56.040 clearly identified the problem with my with my fear of 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.360 being broke. So then, honestly, I'm feeling like I'm not 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.840 alone this. I feel like, you know, the more that 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.840 we've talked, the more I'm like, Okay, cool, maybe this 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.760 isn't like a weird, irrational fear. Uh So, let's let's 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:11.040 transition now into what we can do. What what's your 0:15:11.200 --> 0:15:15.320 biggest advice for the listener slash me in a like 0:15:15.360 --> 0:15:18.120 a fake mustache costume, trying to act like I'm not 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.800 me to to kind of you know, maybe combat the fear. 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:23.720 I don't know if there's ever getting over the fear. 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.240 So what advice would you give to the listener or 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.240 myself to combat these fears? Oh? I mean, the situation 0:15:31.320 --> 0:15:35.520 is hopeless, you know, Okay, You're right, Never gonna totally 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.600 fix this. And it's sort of like you think I 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.000 talked about trauma. So like if you ever, you know, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:42.880 stuck your hand in a hole and got bitten by 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.480 a snake, you're probably not gonna want to ever stick 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:47.360 your hand in some sort of dark spot that you 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:49.840 can't see what's in there ever again. Um. And it's 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.240 it's called one trial learning and it's super super bad, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.280 and it's like, I'm never gonna let this happen again. 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:57.160 So just understanding that that's kind of what's happened to 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:58.840 your brain is it's looking at like how can I 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.920 protect myself? So when I say the situation is hopeless, 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.800 it's not. But just understand that that voice will probably 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.640 always be popping up into your head and it might 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:09.040 actually take a generation or two frankly to sort of 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.680 like level that out, because that fear is actually trying 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.200 to tell you something pretty important and unfortunately for many people, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.680 if we weren't saving for a crisis and weren't diversified 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:21.440 and didn't have emergency funds, you know, you're taking it 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.640 really hard in this recent pandemic and losing your job 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:26.760 and that kind of thing. Um, So you can use 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.320 that as an experience of like, Okay, I'm gonna make 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:29.760 sure I'm not going to be that vulnerable again in 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:32.840 the future. And so essentially it's you have that voice, 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:34.600 it's going to pop up into your head, but you 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.360 need to honor that voice. And that voice says, I'm 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.440 I'm I'm afraid there won't be enough money, so you 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:42.400 need to take action to make sure that that's not 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:45.080 the case. There's actual things that people do that are 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.360 very different than things that people do in lower working class, 0:16:48.400 --> 0:16:50.640 middle class, which is where I'm from. It's a totally 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.040 different world in terms of taking action, but it's all 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.120 entirely accessible to everybody right now. Um, that's that's another myth. 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.120 It's like, oh, you can't really get into and do 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:01.000 those sorts of things. No, you absolutely can, but you 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:02.320 have to learn how to do it. So I think 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:06.040 it's honoring that fear. It's taking actionable steps to make 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.399 sure that you're taking care of yourself as well as 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:10.240 safe for the future. And that's ultimately what we want 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:12.639 to do, is we want to do both. But just 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:14.439 to understand that fear will pop back up in your 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:16.080 head and you just gotta talk it down and calm 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:18.120 it down. I do have one question, because you also 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:21.920 said something else that I love, which was passing on 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:25.119 this fear to your children. Being a son of somebody 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:27.919 who I think experienced that fear, therefore I saw the 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:29.800 fear happen, and then it kind of passed on to me. 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.880 What advice would you have for somebody who is going 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.040 to be a parent or is a parent, so that 0:17:35.080 --> 0:17:39.160 they can best not pass that fear on. Yeah, that's 0:17:39.200 --> 0:17:41.720 such an important question because when I said generations, I 0:17:41.760 --> 0:17:44.880 mean these fears get passed down for generations. And what's 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:47.399 so interesting is people living right now have no clue 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:49.639 what the story was. Quite often all they know is 0:17:49.680 --> 0:17:52.720 they have this intense fear about not having enough, and 0:17:52.720 --> 0:17:55.120 and turns out it traces back to three generations ago 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:58.359 when people were in abject poverty and everyone's incredibly scared 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:00.680 of every going back there again. And so it's it's 0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:02.919 actually sort of energy that's being put out to not 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.960 just teaching, not just saying oh no, it's it's watching 0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.879 what parents are doing, picking up on their fears around money, 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.560 or their fights around money, or the arguments that they hear. 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:13.639 And so the best thing you can do for for 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:15.920 kids in terms of not passing this down is getting 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.520 your own heads straight around it and and being comfortable 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:21.879 within your own relationship with money, because ultimately that's really 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:23.679 what's going to matter. It's not really gonna matter what 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.000 you say. I mean, what you say is secondary to 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:30.280 how you're feeling and the relationship you're basically modeling for kids. 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.600 Global financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund have been 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:39.720 warning that COVID nineteen could trigger a massive global economic slowdown, 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.600 comparable only to the Great Depression. You kind of touched 0:18:42.600 --> 0:18:45.480 on this a little bit, But what is your advice 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:47.800 for those there's there's a there's a big lack of 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.440 money and and lots of jobs are being lost and 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.399 a lot of things are being halted during a time 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.360 like this. What's your advice for the listener out there 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:00.880 that's going through a very very harsh reality right now, man, 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.840 Alex that that is such an important thing to consider. 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.320 And you know, I like the metaphor that we're all 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.679 in this rocky ocean. We're all in this storm together, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:10.840 but we are in very different boats. You know, some 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:12.679 people are in a big yacht writing it out. It's 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.240 a little bit bumpy other people are really are having 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.159 to bail constantly just to stay afloat, and there's a 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:20.600 big threat and so the threat is very real, the 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.200 pain is very real. And I say all this before 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:24.840 I tell you what I think we should all do. 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:30.600 But there's a mindset that is so critically important. And 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.000 they've done a bunch of research on this in terms 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:35.800