Speaker 1: My name is Alex, and I am terrified of going
Speaker 1: broke again. No, no, all right, No, it will be
Speaker 1: all right forever. No be al alright, no will be
Speaker 1: all right for ever. Let's see, let's go all the
Speaker 1: way back. I think it starts back when I was
Speaker 1: even a kid, before I knew kind of how money worked.
Speaker 1: My father was a very and still is a very
Speaker 1: incredible real estate agent. I literally he could sell me
Speaker 1: my own shirt back to me now as an adult,
Speaker 1: he was an incredible real estate agent. And so growing up,
Speaker 1: you know, him receiving awards and being so well known
Speaker 1: for doing it. Um, that obviously also came with being
Speaker 1: very fortunate to have massive birthday parties and Christmas is
Speaker 1: and and all these amazing things. Because in two thousand eight,
Speaker 1: when the market crashed, my father, you know, did his
Speaker 1: absolute best, and I think did an incredible job at
Speaker 1: staying afloat and not letting it affect our family. And
Speaker 1: a lot of people had a lot of really really
Speaker 1: major setbacks, and um and we're super affected by the
Speaker 1: market crash in two thousand and eight, including our family,
Speaker 1: And so that kind of led long story short to
Speaker 1: when we moved to Los Angeles, for my for my
Speaker 1: music career. We all lived in a one bedroom apartment
Speaker 1: and budgeting was a massive thing, and there were you know,
Speaker 1: as soon as I started making money, I started directly
Speaker 1: giving that money straight back to help support my family
Speaker 1: because I knew the sacrifices that my family made, there
Speaker 1: was no money amount that could ever repay that. So
Speaker 1: I was just going to continuously give back and give
Speaker 1: back and give back until I turned eighteen, and I
Speaker 1: realized that the money that I had made until that
Speaker 1: point had kind of taken a pause, which I'll know
Speaker 1: I can say that term now having lived on a
Speaker 1: few more years. But once the money took a pause
Speaker 1: and I realized that just because you've made money, you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean you will continue to make that same
Speaker 1: amount of money at that same rate, I in essence
Speaker 1: kind of became broke again, like I can't like as
Speaker 1: an adult, an eighteen year old kid, you know, having
Speaker 1: already signed a publishing deal, had already gone on tours,
Speaker 1: having already you know, worked with different brands. And this
Speaker 1: was all before I guess to paint the picture, This
Speaker 1: was all before my YouTube channel and my social media
Speaker 1: was really really popping off we're talking about like I
Speaker 1: had twenty thousand followers instead of two million followers on Instagram.
Speaker 1: So even the money that I had made was not substantial,
Speaker 1: but whatever it was, it was now gone. And so
Speaker 1: I think for those that year and a half, those
Speaker 1: two years where money was real, real tight, it sucked
Speaker 1: a lot. And I think we can all agree that
Speaker 1: when you do not have money, like the type of
Speaker 1: not having money, like I was looking at my bank
Speaker 1: account and getting meals paid for by friends and sleeping
Speaker 1: on couches, and every time I would buy food, it
Speaker 1: was making sure I had enough for it. And again
Speaker 1: that's not where the fear came from. The fear started
Speaker 1: once I started making money again, I guess is to
Speaker 1: now kind of jump forward that I started loving where
Speaker 1: I was going or where I was so much so
Speaker 1: that I created a massive fear of ever going back
Speaker 1: to that point. Uh. And I think that that's impacted
Speaker 1: my life in ways that I don't even recognize. You know,
Speaker 1: when I go to purchase something, every single time, I
Speaker 1: always make sure, Okay, is this can I purchase this?
Speaker 1: Can I afford this? Is this going to be the
Speaker 1: thing that sets me back? Being broke is less of
Speaker 1: the fear. The fear is more of like having to
Speaker 1: go back. There's this lyric from from a John Bellian
Speaker 1: song that I've I don't think I've related to a
Speaker 1: lyric more, and that lyric is I spent four thousand
Speaker 1: on the Martin mcflies, which are very expensive Nike shoe
Speaker 1: and then the next line is, but I'm so petrified
Speaker 1: of going broke. And it's kind of this back and
Speaker 1: forth of relate to that line. So much so because
Speaker 1: I was literally on eBay just now trying to outbid
Speaker 1: for a Christian Dior cross body bag that fortunately I
Speaker 1: got outbid for, because if I would have gotten it,
Speaker 1: I immediately would have been like, can I afford this?
Speaker 1: Is this okay? Is this bad? Um? So literally that
Speaker 1: fear has hit me even to today. But that got
Speaker 1: me thinking, how common is this fear of being broke?
Speaker 1: Where does this fear come from? And once you recognize
Speaker 1: that you have it, how can you conquer that fear? Yeo,
Speaker 1: it's up. It's alex Iono and welcome back to my podcast.
Speaker 1: Let's get into it where we really talk about everything
Speaker 1: under the sun, and today we're talking about the fear
Speaker 1: of going brow So I'm very very happy. I have
Speaker 1: two amazing guests. One is a very very long time friend.
Speaker 1: I trust him with my life. His name is Ron Star.
Speaker 1: He is a financial advisor. We're gonna be with him
Speaker 1: in just a minute, but he's got some here for us.
Speaker 1: One is a brand new friend, and we're going to
Speaker 1: speak to this brand new friend right now, Dr Brad Klantz.
Speaker 1: He is a founder of the Financial Psychology Institute and
Speaker 1: an Associate Professor of Practice in Financial Psychology at Creighton
Speaker 1: University Hyder College of Business. I can't believe that I
Speaker 1: read that without messing up or stumbling on my words.
Speaker 1: He is a managing principle of Your Mental Wealth Advisers,
Speaker 1: a fellow of the American Psychological Association, and a former
Speaker 1: president of the Hawaii Psychological Association as well. He's worked
Speaker 1: with major organizations like JP, Morgan Chase, and H and R. Block.
Speaker 1: There's literally two more paragraphs of a bio on this man,
Speaker 1: but I am going to let him speak for himself.
Speaker 1: Dr Brad Klants, how are you, sir. I'm doing great.
Speaker 1: It's a real pleasure to be here with you, meeting
Speaker 1: you um and I'm really excited to talk about this topic. Obviously,
Speaker 1: I hope you're excited to talk about this topic because
Speaker 1: I feel like I might be the prime candidate to
Speaker 1: be coming in to speak with you about my fears. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, your story is very compelling, end And a
Speaker 1: lot of the research we've done has been on what
Speaker 1: we call money scripts, and these are these beliefs we
Speaker 1: have about money, and so I'm always curious about the
Speaker 1: belief that underlines the fear. And for many people, and
Speaker 1: you tell me if this fits for you, Alex, but
Speaker 1: for many people, it's this fear, this belief that there
Speaker 1: won't be enough money, which leads to this anxiety, the
Speaker 1: sense of scarcity. Frankly, like the scarcity, it's not entirely
Speaker 1: a mindset as much as it is an automatic thought
Speaker 1: that pops in. And Um, what we know about that belief,
Speaker 1: and we've done a lot of studies on that particular
Speaker 1: belief pattern is it very often links to some history
Speaker 1: of financial trauma. And sometimes this is trauma. Actually, when
Speaker 1: you started your telling your story about you know your
Speaker 1: father was doing great with money. Um, things were great.
Speaker 1: I immediately thought, Okay, so maybe the trauma came from
Speaker 1: your grandfather or great grandfather. I was already going up
Speaker 1: the chain, because very often this stuff gets passed down
Speaker 1: through the family systems. And then you told me about
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, and that was a major traumatic
Speaker 1: experience for many, many people. And actually studies were done
Speaker 1: back then, massive trauma across the globe, massive trauma, and
Speaker 1: the lives of people in the United States this fear
Speaker 1: of loss. And what's so interesting about trauma is your
Speaker 1: brain decides that I'm going to do everything in my
Speaker 1: power to never let that happen again. And and this
Speaker 1: is that lizard brain that keeps you up at night,
Speaker 1: that wakes you up, that you know you click a
Speaker 1: button and oh no, all these second thoughts come and
Speaker 1: and flood you. And it's your brain saying, I'm never
Speaker 1: gonna let this happen again. I'm gonna do whatever it
Speaker 1: takes to not let this happen again. That's what happens
Speaker 1: when we get traumatized. Our brain looks for ways to
Speaker 1: make sure we survive. Okay, so you talk a lot
Speaker 1: about money disorders, and I have some statistics here. Even
Speaker 1: UM millennials are the most most likely to be pessimistic
Speaker 1: of any age group about the future of the economy.
Speaker 1: UM like you're saying, you've spoken on that traumatic experiences
Speaker 1: those disorders. Can you explain a little bit more on
Speaker 1: what exactly a money disorder is. So money disorder is
Speaker 1: is sort of an umbrella term we used to describe
Speaker 1: a self defeating financial behavior, and so there's many many
Speaker 1: ways that people defeat themselves. You just mentioned, um, what
Speaker 1: happens to a lot of people who don't really have
Speaker 1: the mindset associated with how to manage wealth, and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden they get a bunch of money and
Speaker 1: then of course they these terrible stories of UM celebrities
Speaker 1: and lottery winners who then just blow off through all
Speaker 1: their money. And essentially what happens is they become so
Speaker 1: anxious about having the money. So we all have this
Speaker 1: financial comfort zone, which is an incredible concept where we're
Speaker 1: we're pretty okay at that level. So we know it's
Speaker 1: almost like a culture. We know what people wear, we
Speaker 1: know what they do, we know what restaurants they go to, um,
Speaker 1: we know what kind of cars they drive. We feel
Speaker 1: comfortable and everyone has this layer of comfort. Once you
Speaker 1: get put outside of that, it creates all sorts of stress.
Speaker 1: Even if we think that it's going to make us
Speaker 1: happier and better. Right, we might actually want to have
Speaker 1: more money, but what happens is we're thrust into another world.
Speaker 1: It's almost like being an immigrant to a new country.
Speaker 1: You don't know the custom, you don't know the culture,
Speaker 1: you don't know who to ask for help, and it
Speaker 1: becomes extremely disorienting for many people. Okay, and and and
Speaker 1: in terms of money disorders? Are there different types of disorders?
Speaker 1: Do some are there? Over? Are there the opposite of
Speaker 1: me where it's like they actually have zero fear? Therefore,
Speaker 1: how many disorders are we talking about when it comes
Speaker 1: to money? Yeah, there's there's about about ten of them
Speaker 1: that about identified. Um. And so it goes from underspending
Speaker 1: where somebody who's so anxious about having money and you say,
Speaker 1: this is something you battle inside of you, like there's
Speaker 1: two parts of you, one parts like don't spend anything,
Speaker 1: oh no, um, And it's it's sort of the classic
Speaker 1: iconic ebone'z er scrooge mentality where you have so much
Speaker 1: fear about money that you save a bunch of money,
Speaker 1: but you never let yourself enjoy it. And we would
Speaker 1: consider those people orders of money, and what they end
Speaker 1: up doing is living a life of poverty, you know,
Speaker 1: denying themselves healthcare, sometimes good experiences and all that because
Speaker 1: they're so fearful about not having enough. And then you
Speaker 1: have the average American, of course, who we could say
Speaker 1: has a money disorder UM, where there were over spenders
Speaker 1: and undersavers. This is sort of like this chronic thing
Speaker 1: we have in the United States. Um. It's the keeping
Speaker 1: up with the jones is it's and this this goes
Speaker 1: back to your lizard brain too, where we want to
Speaker 1: feel like we belong. And we've all had this experience
Speaker 1: on social media where you're looking and he's like, oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, look at that car or look at that pool,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden we start to feel deprived, um,
Speaker 1: which makes us want to go get more stuff. And
Speaker 1: really that's us trying to survive within a tribe and
Speaker 1: make sure that we have enough status. UM. So you
Speaker 1: have people who get addicted to gambling and trading um,
Speaker 1: as well as compulsive buying disorder all the way, the
Speaker 1: things like workaholism, where we sacrifice family and health because
Speaker 1: we're so focused on work. What's your advice for for
Speaker 1: I feel like so many Americans battle this keeping up
Speaker 1: with the Jones is I need to be up to date.
Speaker 1: I need to have the newest iPhone, I need to
Speaker 1: have the newest technology, the newest clothes, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: the hottest brands. But then also these emotions of like
Speaker 1: liveing like I'm broke, saving for my future, recognizing that
Speaker 1: right now America has given money away to just kind
Speaker 1: of patch holes in this boat. You know, how do
Speaker 1: we balance that for a young American? I think a
Speaker 1: big part of it is just being aware of what's
Speaker 1: happening to you inside your head and being aware that
Speaker 1: we're extremely vulnerable to this. So it goes back to
Speaker 1: sort of like think about caveman um days, where we
Speaker 1: really are very much focused on our status within the tribe.
Speaker 1: Because if you're not paying attention to where you're stacking up,
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna end up dying or getting kicked out
Speaker 1: of the tribe. I mean, it's a matter of life
Speaker 1: or death for that part of the brain. And so
Speaker 1: there's been tons of studies down on this too. Our
Speaker 1: happiness has much less to do with how much money
Speaker 1: we actually have and the stuff we actually have, and
Speaker 1: it's actually entirely based on how we compare ourselves to
Speaker 1: other people. It's called relative deprivation. And so when we
Speaker 1: see people who have a bunch of stuff we don't have,
Speaker 1: it creates a sense of deprivation within us, and then
Speaker 1: we don't feel like things are right, and then we
Speaker 1: have more of a consumer mindset, like we want to
Speaker 1: get stuff so that we feel better about ourselves. And
Speaker 1: I think it's really important to just point this out,
Speaker 1: that this is deeply rooted in the psychology of all
Speaker 1: of us, because it's really easy to feel ashamed about
Speaker 1: this and to like, you know, kick yourself because you
Speaker 1: overspent and then feel really bad about it and beat
Speaker 1: yourself up. But just understanding that this is a natural
Speaker 1: impulse we all have and it's something that you have
Speaker 1: to be conscious of or you're going to just overspend.
Speaker 1: And that's what again, when I say the average American
Speaker 1: has a money disorder, it's the average American tends to
Speaker 1: be an overspender and not save money for the future.
Speaker 1: So to save money for the future, why is that
Speaker 1: so hard? That goes against all of our wiring. Two. Um,
Speaker 1: that is a brand new concept. And let's go back
Speaker 1: to that Caveman day. You couldn't like hoard a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff. You know, people would be really upset with you.
Speaker 1: You know, they would see you have all this stuff
Speaker 1: and you're not sharing it. And so we have this
Speaker 1: natural inhibition to save also because we're wired to consume
Speaker 1: it now. So think about food. Back then, we couldn't
Speaker 1: save food. So it's eat as much as you can.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is why we have trouble maintaining our weight.
Speaker 1: Your your brain is saying, eat as much as you can,
Speaker 1: as often as you can, and not only that, but
Speaker 1: the fattiest, most sugary stuff. This is what we need
Speaker 1: to do to survive. So it's so interesting is that
Speaker 1: the survival instincts that we all have that got us
Speaker 1: to where we are as a species are the exact
Speaker 1: things that are biting us in the butt right now
Speaker 1: when it comes to money and food and other things. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel like on top of that, like you said,
Speaker 1: it's like we're doing both. I feel like we're trying
Speaker 1: to consume and eat and all of that, but then
Speaker 1: we're also trying to save, and it's just like this
Speaker 1: back and forth. At least that's where I am, like
Speaker 1: I I literally I'm trying to save up so that
Speaker 1: I can buy the original painting of my album artwork.
Speaker 1: But then I'm on eBay trying to buy this this
Speaker 1: Christian Dior cross body bag, and after I lose the auction,
Speaker 1: I'm mad about it. And then I then that kind
Speaker 1: of clarity comes where I'm like, dude, if you would
Speaker 1: have bought that, you would have been you know that
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars that it would have cost would now
Speaker 1: go against this money that you've been trying to save.
Speaker 1: It's really weird because you said it multiple times that
Speaker 1: it's most Americans have this money disorder. Why then is
Speaker 1: it so hard for us to stop making bad decisions?
Speaker 1: It's it's you know, you described what happened in your brain.
Speaker 1: That is exactly what happens. So essentially, our amygdala, which
Speaker 1: is our emotional part of the brain, it gets all
Speaker 1: excited or it gets all fearful about either wanting something,
Speaker 1: wanting to run with the herd, or afraid of scarcity
Speaker 1: that's coming. And when we become emotionally charged like that,
Speaker 1: we become rationally challenged. And literally what happens is the
Speaker 1: part of your brain, the prefront of cortex that's involved
Speaker 1: in like thinking this through, like what are the consequences,
Speaker 1: delaying gratification. That part gets shut off when we're really
Speaker 1: excited or scared or happier. Man is shut off completely.
Speaker 1: And then what happens is when you calm down, it
Speaker 1: comes back online. And that's when you're like, on, oh
Speaker 1: my goodness, I can't believe I did it, or I'm
Speaker 1: so glad I didn't do that. Well, I think we've
Speaker 1: clearly identified the problem with my with my fear of
Speaker 1: being broke. So then, honestly, I'm feeling like I'm not
Speaker 1: alone this. I feel like, you know, the more that
Speaker 1: we've talked, the more I'm like, Okay, cool, maybe this
Speaker 1: isn't like a weird, irrational fear. Uh So, let's let's
Speaker 1: transition now into what we can do. What what's your
Speaker 1: biggest advice for the listener slash me in a like
Speaker 1: a fake mustache costume, trying to act like I'm not
Speaker 1: me to to kind of you know, maybe combat the fear.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's ever getting over the fear.
Speaker 1: So what advice would you give to the listener or
Speaker 1: myself to combat these fears? Oh? I mean, the situation
Speaker 1: is hopeless, you know, Okay, You're right, Never gonna totally
Speaker 1: fix this. And it's sort of like you think I
Speaker 1: talked about trauma. So like if you ever, you know,
Speaker 1: stuck your hand in a hole and got bitten by
Speaker 1: a snake, you're probably not gonna want to ever stick
Speaker 1: your hand in some sort of dark spot that you
Speaker 1: can't see what's in there ever again. Um. And it's
Speaker 1: it's called one trial learning and it's super super bad,
Speaker 1: and it's like, I'm never gonna let this happen again.
Speaker 1: So just understanding that that's kind of what's happened to
Speaker 1: your brain is it's looking at like how can I
Speaker 1: protect myself? So when I say the situation is hopeless,
Speaker 1: it's not. But just understand that that voice will probably
Speaker 1: always be popping up into your head and it might
Speaker 1: actually take a generation or two frankly to sort of
Speaker 1: like level that out, because that fear is actually trying
Speaker 1: to tell you something pretty important and unfortunately for many people,
Speaker 1: if we weren't saving for a crisis and weren't diversified
Speaker 1: and didn't have emergency funds, you know, you're taking it
Speaker 1: really hard in this recent pandemic and losing your job
Speaker 1: and that kind of thing. Um, So you can use
Speaker 1: that as an experience of like, Okay, I'm gonna make
Speaker 1: sure I'm not going to be that vulnerable again in
Speaker 1: the future. And so essentially it's you have that voice,
Speaker 1: it's going to pop up into your head, but you
Speaker 1: need to honor that voice. And that voice says, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I'm afraid there won't be enough money, so you
Speaker 1: need to take action to make sure that that's not
Speaker 1: the case. There's actual things that people do that are
Speaker 1: very different than things that people do in lower working class,
Speaker 1: middle class, which is where I'm from. It's a totally
Speaker 1: different world in terms of taking action, but it's all
Speaker 1: entirely accessible to everybody right now. Um, that's that's another myth.
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you can't really get into and do
Speaker 1: those sorts of things. No, you absolutely can, but you
Speaker 1: have to learn how to do it. So I think
Speaker 1: it's honoring that fear. It's taking actionable steps to make
Speaker 1: sure that you're taking care of yourself as well as
Speaker 1: safe for the future. And that's ultimately what we want
Speaker 1: to do, is we want to do both. But just
Speaker 1: to understand that fear will pop back up in your
Speaker 1: head and you just gotta talk it down and calm
Speaker 1: it down. I do have one question, because you also
Speaker 1: said something else that I love, which was passing on
Speaker 1: this fear to your children. Being a son of somebody
Speaker 1: who I think experienced that fear, therefore I saw the
Speaker 1: fear happen, and then it kind of passed on to me.
Speaker 1: What advice would you have for somebody who is going
Speaker 1: to be a parent or is a parent, so that
Speaker 1: they can best not pass that fear on. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: such an important question because when I said generations, I
Speaker 1: mean these fears get passed down for generations. And what's
Speaker 1: so interesting is people living right now have no clue
Speaker 1: what the story was. Quite often all they know is
Speaker 1: they have this intense fear about not having enough, and
Speaker 1: and turns out it traces back to three generations ago
Speaker 1: when people were in abject poverty and everyone's incredibly scared
Speaker 1: of every going back there again. And so it's it's
Speaker 1: actually sort of energy that's being put out to not
Speaker 1: just teaching, not just saying oh no, it's it's watching
Speaker 1: what parents are doing, picking up on their fears around money,
Speaker 1: or their fights around money, or the arguments that they hear.
Speaker 1: And so the best thing you can do for for
Speaker 1: kids in terms of not passing this down is getting
Speaker 1: your own heads straight around it and and being comfortable
Speaker 1: within your own relationship with money, because ultimately that's really
Speaker 1: what's going to matter. It's not really gonna matter what
Speaker 1: you say. I mean, what you say is secondary to
Speaker 1: how you're feeling and the relationship you're basically modeling for kids.
Speaker 1: Global financial institutions like the International Monetary Fund have been
Speaker 1: warning that COVID nineteen could trigger a massive global economic slowdown,
Speaker 1: comparable only to the Great Depression. You kind of touched
Speaker 1: on this a little bit, But what is your advice
Speaker 1: for those there's there's a there's a big lack of
Speaker 1: money and and lots of jobs are being lost and
Speaker 1: a lot of things are being halted during a time
Speaker 1: like this. What's your advice for the listener out there
Speaker 1: that's going through a very very harsh reality right now, man,
Speaker 1: Alex that that is such an important thing to consider.
Speaker 1: And you know, I like the metaphor that we're all
Speaker 1: in this rocky ocean. We're all in this storm together,
Speaker 1: but we are in very different boats. You know, some
Speaker 1: people are in a big yacht writing it out. It's
Speaker 1: a little bit bumpy other people are really are having
Speaker 1: to bail constantly just to stay afloat, and there's a
Speaker 1: big threat and so the threat is very real, the
Speaker 1: pain is very real. And I say all this before
Speaker 1: I tell you what I think we should all do.
Speaker 1: But there's a mindset that is so critically important. And
Speaker 1: they've done a bunch of research on this in terms
Speaker 1: of trauma. So people been through the worst possible things
Speaker 1: that you can ever experience in life. Many of those
Speaker 1: people on the other side of it are stronger, they're happier,
Speaker 1: they have better connections with the people they love, they
Speaker 1: have a better spiritual connection. It's called post traumatic growth.
Speaker 1: I think everyone should get it. UM. It's it's fabulous.
Speaker 1: And one of the ways you do that those you
Speaker 1: have to think about your thinking. And so this mantra,
Speaker 1: there's a mantra I have that I say to myself
Speaker 1: ten times a day. I I encourage other people to
Speaker 1: say it too, and it's this, where's the opportunity? Guess
Speaker 1: what kids aren't in school? UM? You know sometimes I
Speaker 1: feel like, quote, I'm stuck at home with the kids. UM.
Speaker 1: And hopefully they won't listen to this, UM, But you know,
Speaker 1: where's the opportunity in that, and I'll tell you I
Speaker 1: am taking advantage of the opportunity. So I can tell
Speaker 1: you this right now. I'm a better father and i've
Speaker 1: ever been. In the last few months, I'm a better
Speaker 1: husband than I've ever been. I don't know if my
Speaker 1: wife will verify that, but I've been putting more effort.
Speaker 1: I've been putting more effort into my relationship with her.
Speaker 1: Like here we are. You know, we could look at
Speaker 1: this like we could fight with each other about this
Speaker 1: because there's tons of stuff to fight over and be
Speaker 1: stressed about. Or we can face this together and create
Speaker 1: a narrative. It's like, hey, look baby, you know what.
Speaker 1: Look how strong we are. We're able to get through
Speaker 1: this together. You know. And I know people who have
Speaker 1: lost their jobs, who who finally are spending time putting
Speaker 1: that side hustle together, taking online courses. Actually before this call,
Speaker 1: I was taking an online course. I'm like, I got
Speaker 1: a little bit extra time. I want to learn more.
Speaker 1: So where is the opportunity? I think is one of
Speaker 1: the best mindsets to have. Mm I love that. And
Speaker 1: you guys heard it here first. If you didn't listen,
Speaker 1: go back and listen to the two and a half
Speaker 1: minute intro that I gave on this man. Dr Klanz
Speaker 1: is the guy that you should listen to when it
Speaker 1: comes to getting your mind right for where the world
Speaker 1: is at right now. Dr. Can I just call you Brad?
Speaker 1: Do I have to or do I have to call you?
Speaker 1: Is that okay? I'm sorry, I got my mom calls
Speaker 1: me Dr Klans but you can call me well, Brad.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much your insight not only into my life,
Speaker 1: but into the concept of being afraid of being broke
Speaker 1: and and that fear. Um, I'm definitely gonna keep a
Speaker 1: lot of that. We're gonna take a quick break. When
Speaker 1: we come back. I'm gonna be speaking to one of
Speaker 1: my very very long time friends who was very well
Speaker 1: aware of my fear of being broke. We'll be right back,
Speaker 1: all right, Welcome back. We are talking about my fear
Speaker 1: of being broke. I don't know how my heart radio
Speaker 1: got me to be just so open about all of
Speaker 1: the things I'm afraid of. But we're here, so we're
Speaker 1: having a great time. We just had an amazing conversation
Speaker 1: with Brad Klantz, Doctor Brad Klantz um, which was awesome.
Speaker 1: And now I'm going to talk to one of my really,
Speaker 1: really good friends. If there's anybody on earth that can
Speaker 1: understand or at least speak on behalf of my fear
Speaker 1: of being broke, it is one of my very very
Speaker 1: good friends who is right here on the podcast. I've
Speaker 1: known him for eight years, nine years, Um you were fifty, jeez, Louise. Um.
Speaker 1: We met through my We met through my manager and
Speaker 1: just immediately clicked. He has been there for me when
Speaker 1: I'm I'm talking about when I was the brokest of broke.
Speaker 1: He's been there for me. Uh and and through the years,
Speaker 1: he's always had great advice for me. Um also works
Speaker 1: in the finance world, and uh and, and he's just
Speaker 1: an all around amazing dude. So I'm happy to have
Speaker 1: him here on my podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, Ron Star, Ron,
Speaker 1: how are you? I'm all right? Thanks for having me, Alex.
Speaker 1: This is fun. I I was gonna have a you know,
Speaker 1: a two paragraph written up intro on you, but I
Speaker 1: figured where friends, so I was just gonna say he's
Speaker 1: got a week jumper and can only go right. Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen, Ron Star, how are you are you doing
Speaker 1: all right? I'm doing all right? You know I'm doing
Speaker 1: a lot of hand holding and counseling during this time
Speaker 1: of COVID then I have been in the past with
Speaker 1: respect to friends and with respect to clients. A lot
Speaker 1: of what Dr Klan said is absolutely on the money
Speaker 1: in terms of what I see with my friends, with
Speaker 1: with my business every day, where people have these fears
Speaker 1: and unfortunately they seem to be hardwired to do the
Speaker 1: exact opposite of what you're supposed to do. One of
Speaker 1: the great things is, you know, everyone says for investing
Speaker 1: very simple, you buy low and you sell high. You are,
Speaker 1: for some reason driven instinctually to do the exact opposite.
Speaker 1: When the stock market starts to crash, which means prices
Speaker 1: are starting to go down, they're no longer high, what
Speaker 1: does everyone want to do. They want to sell. They
Speaker 1: want to get out as quickly as they possibly can.
Speaker 1: And when things are at the bottom or is Warren
Speaker 1: Buffett used to say, when there's blood in the street
Speaker 1: and it's a time to invest, everyone's too afraid to
Speaker 1: do it because of what they've just experienced with the
Speaker 1: crash below. So it's it's almost a cruel joke, which
Speaker 1: is you know what you're supposed to do. Yet, being
Speaker 1: interrrational human, you've almost always are wired to do the opposite,
Speaker 1: and you have to really think yourself through something. And
Speaker 1: the best way, at least that I've been able to
Speaker 1: do that is to educate myself as much as possible
Speaker 1: about finances, about money, about everything along those lines, and
Speaker 1: learn budgeting, um, so that I can at least feel
Speaker 1: like I have a some semblance of control over what's
Speaker 1: going on and be when I know where I stand
Speaker 1: on something or I can understand something, it's a lot
Speaker 1: less frightening than when you're just sitting there and you're panicked,
Speaker 1: and you get that hot flesh and you sweat and
Speaker 1: you don't know what to do and you and you
Speaker 1: really can't take any action. Oh man, well, I've definitely
Speaker 1: called you. I feel like I've been in a in
Speaker 1: a hot you know, flush sweat and and stressing out
Speaker 1: about different things multiple of times throughout the years. I'm very,
Speaker 1: very lucky that I have a super insightful friend that
Speaker 1: I can call on all the time. But this is
Speaker 1: actually your job. So I want to ask you, just
Speaker 1: for the listeners who don't know you, what exactly do
Speaker 1: you do for a living on the East Coast I
Speaker 1: referred to my business is referred to as a multi
Speaker 1: family office. On the West Coast referred to as a
Speaker 1: business manager. And what we essentially do is help people
Speaker 1: plan for the future with respect of finances, get them
Speaker 1: set up, teach them with respect to investments, goals, how
Speaker 1: to save when they can, spend when they shouldn't, and
Speaker 1: counselor is too strong a word, but be there to
Speaker 1: advise them if they've got something large or small coming up,
Speaker 1: if someone wants to buy a house, if someone wants
Speaker 1: to buy a car, if someone wants to buy a watch,
Speaker 1: and talking them through it. And you know, all we
Speaker 1: can do is advise. We can't tell someone what they
Speaker 1: what they have to do with their money, or what
Speaker 1: they must not do with their money. We can try
Speaker 1: to get them to listen to us. And the longer
Speaker 1: we speak with them, and the more logically we speak
Speaker 1: with the more successful we are. And I find just
Speaker 1: the passage of time between when someone sees something that
Speaker 1: they want or something that they want to do and
Speaker 1: you kind of cool off a little bit, it's much
Speaker 1: easier to think more rationally about something and what the
Speaker 1: true cost of something is. I also like to scare
Speaker 1: people because part of what I do is tax um
Speaker 1: and tax compliance. So one of the one of the
Speaker 1: things I like to do is say, all right, you're
Speaker 1: getting paid a hundred thousand dollars. How much money do
Speaker 1: you have? And they'll say, well, I have a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, And I'll say, no, you don't have a
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars, even if you don't have any expenses.
Speaker 1: You have fifty because Uncle Sam and where I live
Speaker 1: New York State or you are California, are going to
Speaker 1: take a very nice chunk of that money from you.
Speaker 1: So people are in the mindset of thinking I just
Speaker 1: made a hundred thousand dollars. I'm trying to get them
Speaker 1: into the mindset of thinking, no, you just netted fifty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. How are we going to work? You're spending
Speaker 1: around it so that you are still saving for a
Speaker 1: nest egg, but you're not living in a hovel. Which
Speaker 1: was another one of my favorite stories. There was a
Speaker 1: woman who worked at the I R. S many many
Speaker 1: years ago, who made no more than thirty thou dollars
Speaker 1: a year. She died with a three million dollar state,
Speaker 1: but she lived in a hovel and bought nothing. So
Speaker 1: she died, but you can't really say that she lived.
Speaker 1: So there has to be some kind of a balance.
Speaker 1: Otherwise you're not going to be happy either way. You're
Speaker 1: either going to be incredibly anxious because of my god,
Speaker 1: I'm going broke I have no money, or you're going
Speaker 1: to be I don't get to have any fun because
Speaker 1: I've got everything here and I'm too anxious to go
Speaker 1: out there and do anything. This is actually the perfect
Speaker 1: time for me to explain maybe one of the most
Speaker 1: impactful conversations, um, that you and I had, which it
Speaker 1: wasn't even a conversation. I'm going to turn back the clock.
Speaker 1: I was fifteen years old. I probably maybe met you
Speaker 1: two or three times before this. I was at what
Speaker 1: in the music industry is called a writer's retreat, and Um,
Speaker 1: the person who put the retreat together invited you to
Speaker 1: come and speak about spending wisely, especially as a musician
Speaker 1: where money is not guaranteed at and so you spoke
Speaker 1: about it, and you actually referenced Kevin Hart. Stand up,
Speaker 1: UM kind of series of jokes where the moral of
Speaker 1: Kevin Hart's story is stay in your lane, stay in
Speaker 1: your financial lane, and talks about how when he first
Speaker 1: started making money, he was hanging out with athletes who
Speaker 1: made way more money than him, and he was trying
Speaker 1: to keep up and ended up spending way too much money.
Speaker 1: But I do actually wanted you to touch on that
Speaker 1: because you have been mentioning this before, this balance of
Speaker 1: how do you find your financial lane that you're supposed
Speaker 1: to stay and how do you figure out You know,
Speaker 1: I've called you multiple times with this exact thing, saying, Okay, hey,
Speaker 1: I just got a check that says this much, and
Speaker 1: I really want to buy this. Can I do this?
Speaker 1: And then sometimes you've said yes. Most of the time
Speaker 1: you said no, and sometimes I've listened. Most of the
Speaker 1: time I have it. But that is just the reality
Speaker 1: of life. So how do you find your financial lane?
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure out how do I beat my
Speaker 1: fear of going broke? And and also in my mind,
Speaker 1: I'm saying, well, if I find out how much I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to spend, then even if the fear comes, I
Speaker 1: can know that I'm still in that window of what
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to spend. So that being said, how do
Speaker 1: you find your financial lane? Well, there are two different
Speaker 1: approaches that I generally take with my friends and with
Speaker 1: my clients, UM, and it depends on their personality. There's
Speaker 1: one which is you just basically set forth a discipline
Speaker 1: or you're where you have to make assumptions. Assumptions are
Speaker 1: almost always wrong, but you still have to make them
Speaker 1: because you need some kind of a tool. So you'll say,
Speaker 1: all right, if you want to retire, and I know
Speaker 1: you're only twenty four, but you still think about retirement
Speaker 1: at this time, UM, during this, during this crisis, more
Speaker 1: than more than most probably UM. But you say, okay,
Speaker 1: if you want to have a certain living style, you
Speaker 1: want to be at a certain level, how much money
Speaker 1: are you going to need for that? And what you
Speaker 1: do is take those assumptions and work into a little
Speaker 1: model where you're saying, okay, to assume this is how
Speaker 1: much money you're making, this is how much you're gonna
Speaker 1: be paying in tax, how much are you going to
Speaker 1: have to save to put away? Making an assumption on
Speaker 1: how much your money is going to earn, and what
Speaker 1: the rate of inflation is going to be. Now Again,
Speaker 1: like I said, assumptions are always going to be wrong,
Speaker 1: probably within a week, especially without how fast everything is moving, right, now,
Speaker 1: but it still gives you some kind of an idea
Speaker 1: and some kind of a guide, and that guide itself
Speaker 1: gives you some kind of security. So if you're saying, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm making fifty dollars this year, and I want to
Speaker 1: put away enough, you know, so that I can continue
Speaker 1: to live as if I'm making fifty dollars a year,
Speaker 1: we would say, of every dollar you earn, you're gonna
Speaker 1: put x percent away for savings, period, so that you'll
Speaker 1: know what you have for discretionary income, and then you
Speaker 1: can do the math about whether or not you can
Speaker 1: buy something and if you're gonna buy something. Now, some
Speaker 1: people put together budgets. In my experience, I've never seen
Speaker 1: anyone actually stick to a budget or stick to the categories. Um,
Speaker 1: but you can do something like that, but it's more
Speaker 1: along lines of pacing yourself with respect to what you're
Speaker 1: saving for. And if there's something that big that you want,
Speaker 1: if it's a vacation or you know, a fancy role
Speaker 1: X watch, whatever whatever floats your boat, then you have
Speaker 1: to make choices. And that's how you make the choice.
Speaker 1: You're saying, Okay, this is how much money I have,
Speaker 1: how do I allocate this out, and you're doing it
Speaker 1: each time. You're making a choice on spending because you're
Speaker 1: looking at something. Okay, if I get that, that leaves
Speaker 1: me with X dollars left. What you know, can I
Speaker 1: get by on that? And how how can I divate
Speaker 1: that up among everything else I need to buy? So
Speaker 1: they're they're they're very similar in terms of where they
Speaker 1: get you. They're just different mindsets. Where one is you
Speaker 1: don't have to think about it at all. It's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm putting this money away from my retirement. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to touch it. And the other thing I do
Speaker 1: to help people try to find their lane is, like
Speaker 1: I said before, I try to scare them. During the
Speaker 1: retreat that you were at. One of the other things
Speaker 1: I do is I bring out a list of all
Speaker 1: of these incredibly famous celebrities and athletes, and then I
Speaker 1: go forward and say, this is how many times each
Speaker 1: one of these has gone bankrupt, and most of them
Speaker 1: it's not just once, most of them at several times.
Speaker 1: So no matter how much you earn, it's not necessarily
Speaker 1: the question. What I found is everyone has the capacity
Speaker 1: to outspend what they earn no matter what um whether
Speaker 1: it's making bad bets, bad investments, or just buying things
Speaker 1: that they don't really need that immediately start to lose
Speaker 1: their value. Um, I'm not a car guy. People love
Speaker 1: to buy cars. The minute you drive your car, the
Speaker 1: value of that car depreciates immensely. Or if you're buying
Speaker 1: something at an auction or from a dealer, you're buying
Speaker 1: it at the price that you can get it at,
Speaker 1: but you're not buying at the price that you can
Speaker 1: sell it to someone else. For Allen Iverson made thirty
Speaker 1: million dollars from contracts, you probably made another hundred million
Speaker 1: dollars from endorsements. And he blew through it because he
Speaker 1: was buying cars, because he was buying houses, because he
Speaker 1: was buying all these other things there. So, if you
Speaker 1: want to buy something for an experience, make sure you
Speaker 1: enjoy the experience. If you want to buy something because
Speaker 1: you love and it gives you pleasure to do that.
Speaker 1: But if you want to buy something with the idea
Speaker 1: that you can always just sell it, that's just a
Speaker 1: bad strategy that usually gets people into a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1: Especially in our country. The odds are always stacked against you,
Speaker 1: and they make it so much easier for you to
Speaker 1: buy something and to spend money than to save money.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately, there are people, really smart people left Dr Klantz,
Speaker 1: who are on the other side of the equation where
Speaker 1: he's saying, look, you want sugary, you want sweet, that's
Speaker 1: why we eat, and that's that's a problem. Well, that's
Speaker 1: why they have the candy and the chips right by
Speaker 1: the register as you're checking out from the supermarket, because
Speaker 1: these people know what the weaknesses are and as a
Speaker 1: result of that, they take advantage of that. You know,
Speaker 1: credit cards with pictures on them, shiny fancy rewards, do this,
Speaker 1: do that. Again, the odds are stacked against you. People
Speaker 1: are trying to get you to spend as much as
Speaker 1: you possibly can. You're wired to spend and for that
Speaker 1: instant gratification rather than saving later. The best thing you
Speaker 1: can do is kind of you take a breath, you
Speaker 1: think something through, you try not to act impulsively, and
Speaker 1: the logic can sometimes bring you down. And all of
Speaker 1: these tools together, the budgeting, the automatic savings, all of
Speaker 1: these things, that's kind of how you you're able to
Speaker 1: find your financial lane and try to get some comfort.
Speaker 1: But Brad was saying, is true, which is yeah, you
Speaker 1: can have someone who earns ten twenty fifty million dollars
Speaker 1: a year and works all the time, has three kids
Speaker 1: and never sees them. Now is that a success financially?
Speaker 1: That's a success. But how do you define success? If
Speaker 1: you define success with happiness, then happiness is an individual
Speaker 1: and personal goal or test that you need to figure
Speaker 1: out for yourself. So if if you think owning a
Speaker 1: yacht is going to make you happy, I'm going to
Speaker 1: tell you you're probably wrong, But I can't tell you
Speaker 1: percent wrong. But I will tell you that if you
Speaker 1: have good friends and you have good times with people,
Speaker 1: that's going to make you happy. And that's generally not
Speaker 1: something you can do. You can have your friends have
Speaker 1: on your yacht, which will make you happy, but it's
Speaker 1: not the yacht, it's the friends that are with you.
Speaker 1: Some people don't even have a friend who's just smart
Speaker 1: about I'm lucky that I have two friends here now
Speaker 1: that are that that are so well educated about, you know,
Speaker 1: finance and the concept behind being afraid of going broken
Speaker 1: and spending all of your money. What's your advice for
Speaker 1: somebody who has neither of those? You need to be
Speaker 1: careful about it. But there are actually quite a few
Speaker 1: good books out there that touch on these things and
Speaker 1: give good advice. Not the books that say invest like
Speaker 1: this and in six weeks you'll be able to retire.
Speaker 1: Stay away from those, but the ones. There was one
Speaker 1: that I read fairly recently, which was stupid mistakes smart
Speaker 1: people make with their money, And when you read it,
Speaker 1: a lot of its common sense. But it's common sense.
Speaker 1: That common sense is probably the biggest misnomer in the
Speaker 1: world that tends to be anything but common. Seeing it
Speaker 1: in a book means a you're not alone and be
Speaker 1: enough people are interested in the subject that someone wrote
Speaker 1: a book and a cup published and if you're careful
Speaker 1: and you get the right ones and you take those
Speaker 1: lessons to heart, that that's the best place you can learn.
Speaker 1: So be careful because the appearance of wealth doesn't always
Speaker 1: reflect the actual wealth, and the appearance of wealth or
Speaker 1: success usually comes before the actual monetary success. I mean,
Speaker 1: you see that in the music industry, probably more than
Speaker 1: anywhere else where. You're you suddenly have a viral hit
Speaker 1: on YouTube and everyone says, my god, you must be
Speaker 1: making so much money, and it's like, well, considering the
Speaker 1: music industry is geared to pay me as slowly as
Speaker 1: possible and to try to make sure that everyone gets
Speaker 1: a little piece of my money before it actually comes
Speaker 1: to me. No, I'm not set yet. That part of
Speaker 1: the reason why I like the books is you can
Speaker 1: kind of do research on an author and see where
Speaker 1: they're coming from, what they've done, what their background is.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to mention a specific book called The
Speaker 1: Art of the Deal, which I would really tell you
Speaker 1: to avoid it cost um, but there there are there.
Speaker 1: There are a lot of good things out there that
Speaker 1: are not that hard to read, that are not that
Speaker 1: technical and are actually interesting. Or maybe they're interesting to
Speaker 1: me because I'm weird, but they're they're very interesting. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think they're interesting as long as if they're saving
Speaker 1: money and they're and they're helping fight these fears, then
Speaker 1: that I think they're in a good place. But Ron,
Speaker 1: thank you so much more than anything. I'm just I
Speaker 1: like shouting people out, even if it wasn't going to
Speaker 1: be on the podcast. Thank you for being my friend,
Speaker 1: and thank you for being such a good friend in
Speaker 1: the times. Um, we're gonna be right back and we're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking with both Brad and Ron, we kind
Speaker 1: of have spoiled the ending that they're we're never gonna
Speaker 1: beat this fear. It's going to be with us forever.
Speaker 1: But we're going to talk about ways that we can
Speaker 1: best combat it. We'll be right back. All right, we
Speaker 1: are back. We have been talking about the fear of
Speaker 1: going broke. In the first segment, I spoke with Brad
Speaker 1: and he kind of talked to me about how to
Speaker 1: not be so afraid. And then I talked to one
Speaker 1: of my really really good friend, Ron, who actually uses
Speaker 1: the fear as a way to help his clients as
Speaker 1: a business manager, you know, not go overboard and spend overboard.
Speaker 1: As he referenced so many professional athletes and actors and
Speaker 1: very very wealthy human beings who have filed for bankruptcy
Speaker 1: multiple times and kind of found themselves right back where
Speaker 1: they feared they would ever start. So before we get
Speaker 1: into talking about how we can potentially combat the fear
Speaker 1: of being broke, I have a segment on my show
Speaker 1: that I ask every single guest this one question, and
Speaker 1: that one question is what have you been doing this
Speaker 1: week to improve your own life? I'll go first. While
Speaker 1: you guys think I've been baking and um ron. You know,
Speaker 1: because I send you weird This is gonna sound weird,
Speaker 1: but I send you shirtless selfies pretty often to show
Speaker 1: you the progress in my fitness journey. Brad, if you'd
Speaker 1: like to, you can give me your phone number. I'll
Speaker 1: send you that. Uh. I've been on a fitness journey,
Speaker 1: and you'd think that baking is something that would kind
Speaker 1: of go against it, but I've realized that to adhere
Speaker 1: better to my fitness goals, I need to have like
Speaker 1: a little bit of treat. I started baking way more
Speaker 1: like I'm baking muffins, were baking cookies. I'm baking. Um.
Speaker 1: We did a berry pie last week. And what I
Speaker 1: do every day is I have a little bit in
Speaker 1: my calorie budget to have that muffin so that I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm getting a good treat. Um. That's what
Speaker 1: I've been doing this week. Specifically, before that, I was,
Speaker 1: you know, it's working out. It was starting a garden.
Speaker 1: It was buying a tool set so that I could
Speaker 1: build a shelf in my room. So there's a world
Speaker 1: of different opportunities. Brad. You actually kind of touched on
Speaker 1: it a little bit when we were talking about find
Speaker 1: the opportunity. But do you have something that you feel
Speaker 1: like you've been doing this week that's improving your life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: actually I alluded to it earlier. So my son is seven,
Speaker 1: and um, I came home from work the other yesterday
Speaker 1: and he had a bunch of our stuff out on
Speaker 1: the front porch and he had set up a little
Speaker 1: store and he's trying to sell all my stuff to
Speaker 1: the neighbors. And it hit me that, first of all,
Speaker 1: I almost came to tears right, I'm a financial psychologist.
Speaker 1: My son is interested in money. I mean, it's a
Speaker 1: dream come true. And then I thought, you know what,
Speaker 1: like it's a new world, and so he wants to
Speaker 1: start a little business and he's seven, So I'm going
Speaker 1: to help him start a business, and how do you
Speaker 1: do that in the new world? So I did this today.
Speaker 1: I spent about three hours researching various businesses on how
Speaker 1: to make money online. And I'm going to start something
Speaker 1: for him. So that's that's what I've been doing. I
Speaker 1: love that. That's awesome. That might be the first one
Speaker 1: that ever like, that might be the first thing that
Speaker 1: a guest has said that they've been doing that doesn't
Speaker 1: just involve like them. I feel like everything is very
Speaker 1: self serving, but as a father, not much as self
Speaker 1: serving anymore when you become a parent. So way to go.
Speaker 1: I like that, Ron anything. Um, can I say two things?
Speaker 1: One's really short, yeah, okay. The short one is I've
Speaker 1: been trying to cut myself some slack and be a
Speaker 1: little bit more compassionate with myself because I find when
Speaker 1: I speak with my son and I'm trying to teach
Speaker 1: him compassion, especially in this day and age, I find
Speaker 1: that I'm preaching I'm not necessarily practicing with my sube
Speaker 1: what you preach, you know. And something that Brad said
Speaker 1: really struck a nerve, which is it doesn't really matter
Speaker 1: as much what you say to your children as much
Speaker 1: as what you're showing them. Um. When when my parents
Speaker 1: got divorced, my mother was constantly afraid of going broke,
Speaker 1: and as a result of that, I had that fear
Speaker 1: and I constantly talked myself out of that fear. But
Speaker 1: it came from her. I know it came from I
Speaker 1: still love her anyway, I still send her Mother's day guards,
Speaker 1: but it came from her. The other thing that I've
Speaker 1: been doing is whenever I'm afraid of something or unsure
Speaker 1: of something, I try to learn more about it. So
Speaker 1: I'm sure like half of America, and I've learned a
Speaker 1: great deal more about pandemics, epidemics, viruses. I've been reading
Speaker 1: a couple of books. I read a book that was
Speaker 1: written two or three years ago about the pandemic possibility,
Speaker 1: and reading the book about the pandemic possibility was like
Speaker 1: watching someone write a journal as it's happening. Now, That's
Speaker 1: how scary it was that that he was able to
Speaker 1: tell the future that that well, and that nobody paid
Speaker 1: attention to it. So I just try to make myself
Speaker 1: as aware of possible of things. And the more I learned,
Speaker 1: the more I realized I know so little. So I
Speaker 1: just try to dig my way out of my ignorance
Speaker 1: and I use some of the extra time I have
Speaker 1: now doing that. I like that. That's nice. We got
Speaker 1: some good answers today. I don't know if I don't
Speaker 1: know if this episode is about going broke or just
Speaker 1: being a great dad, but both of you guys are
Speaker 1: giving me some good lessons right now. So we have
Speaker 1: been talking about the fear of going broke, and in
Speaker 1: our segment, Brad, you kind of mentioned that there is
Speaker 1: no cure for this fear, that this fear is kind
Speaker 1: of going to be an ever present thing, and all
Speaker 1: you can really do is just every day consistently try
Speaker 1: and combat it. And Ron, you even mentioned that you
Speaker 1: use that same kind of fear of these are the
Speaker 1: people who have gone bad and done it wrong. And
Speaker 1: you think that you make all of this money, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna last forever. You can always overspend it. I
Speaker 1: want to ask both of you, guys, if you can't
Speaker 1: beat this fear, what advice do you give your clients
Speaker 1: or your patients that at least give them a day
Speaker 1: to day help, any anything, any tips? Like I remember
Speaker 1: reading this quote on Instagram by Jay Z that says,
Speaker 1: if you can't buy it twice, you can't afford it.
Speaker 1: And I tried doing that, but then what I would
Speaker 1: do is I just started buying buying two subway sandwiches
Speaker 1: because I can now afford two of them. So what
Speaker 1: advice do do you both have? Rat aalogy start? Yeah, So,
Speaker 1: first of all, Ron Star, I mean, the guy is
Speaker 1: a star. I'm actually really jealous of his name, isn't
Speaker 1: it special? But but I loved everything he said. One
Speaker 1: of the things he said, is going to lead me
Speaker 1: to my suggestion. And he said that, and this is
Speaker 1: this is incredible actually that he does this. But when
Speaker 1: he sees something he's afraid of, he moves towards it,
Speaker 1: and he tries to learn as much as he can
Speaker 1: about it. And he has actually just described the most
Speaker 1: effective treatment for anxiety and fear that we have in
Speaker 1: the field of psychology. And so, first of all, fabulous,
Speaker 1: And I'll just share with you how how I think
Speaker 1: it's this. This is a really helpful exercise. Okay, I
Speaker 1: call it the worst case scenario exercise, And so essentially
Speaker 1: you just run down the absolute waste worst case scenario. So,
Speaker 1: for example, let's say I'm afraid of losing my job. Okay, well, well,
Speaker 1: first of all, that would be terrible, right, But what
Speaker 1: would happen next? Well, then I'll I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: I'd lose my house. Okay, that would be awful. But
Speaker 1: what would happen next? Um? Well, you know, for many people,
Speaker 1: then it's like, well, I guess I'd have to move
Speaker 1: in with my mom or my sister or a relative
Speaker 1: or something. Um which, by the way, it would be
Speaker 1: just hugely devastating to my ego. But I gotta tell you,
Speaker 1: my kids would actually kind of love it. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't care who we moved in with. It's a
Speaker 1: party all the time, exactly. It would be a party
Speaker 1: all the time for them. And the problem is around
Speaker 1: our anxiety is our brain hasn't It's an on off switch.
Speaker 1: It's like everything's fine or oh no, I'm going to die. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's the way it works. And you know, she ANSWS
Speaker 1: are that this worst case scenario for you is not
Speaker 1: going to kill you. If you're in the United States,
Speaker 1: chances are you're not going to die from financial problems. However,
Speaker 1: your financial stress and anxiety around money, it can kill you.
Speaker 1: And there's been a lot of studies done on this.
Speaker 1: It's a huge mortality risk factor, like up there with diabetes,
Speaker 1: heart disease, cancer, that's how much that stress can impact us.
Speaker 1: And so just getting a handle on getting some perspective
Speaker 1: on you know, how much do I really need to
Speaker 1: worry about it? Would I be okay if I lost
Speaker 1: it all? Like, certainly, don't try to lose it all
Speaker 1: and make sure you're taking care of yourself. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, you know, um, the average
Speaker 1: millionaire has had three major financial catastrophes in their life
Speaker 1: three the average non millionaire has had slightly less than one.
Speaker 1: And so the other way to look at this is like, hey,
Speaker 1: you know what, bankruptcy, it's in vogue right now, like
Speaker 1: all the cool kids are doing it um and so
Speaker 1: so don't so don't let a failure like kill you. Essentially,
Speaker 1: it's it's just not that big a deal and you
Speaker 1: can rise from the ashes, and most people who are
Speaker 1: really successful have done exactly that. Mm hmm. Ron, do
Speaker 1: you have anything to add to that in terms of
Speaker 1: tips on on on how you can kind of combat this,
Speaker 1: because I have something that I actually think you told
Speaker 1: me that I want to finish with, but I want
Speaker 1: to let you give some tips first. I think Brad
Speaker 1: really put it very well, which is the key word
Speaker 1: being perspective, which is, what's the absolute worst case scenario,
Speaker 1: because you know, Okay, we have a pandemic, everyone's out
Speaker 1: of work and they're gonna be riots in the streets.
Speaker 1: That one's just gonna cause worry because there's not really
Speaker 1: a lot you can do about that, and apparently it
Speaker 1: can happen. But aside from that is really get the
Speaker 1: perspective on it. You know, my wife, she'll call me
Speaker 1: in a panic over something. She'd be like, oh no, literally,
Speaker 1: this morning, my mother got into a little fender bender
Speaker 1: someone else and there's this and just I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: so how much was the damage? She's like, Oh, it's
Speaker 1: probably gonna be few hundred dollars. I'm like, okay, if
Speaker 1: the damage is going to be a few hundred dollars
Speaker 1: and we have that money, please don't waste another another
Speaker 1: minute worrying about it, because it can be easily solved.
Speaker 1: So instead of worrying about problems, kind of think about
Speaker 1: what a possible solution will be. Because again, when you're
Speaker 1: in that area of limbo or uncertainty, it's like the worst,
Speaker 1: most anxious place for me personally to be. So doing
Speaker 1: something about it at least gives you, whether it's a
Speaker 1: false sense of control or a real sense of control,
Speaker 1: makes you feel better. I think what you both said,
Speaker 1: a lot of the times we create the monsters that
Speaker 1: scare us the most, right, And so I think what
Speaker 1: I'm dissecting from both of your answers is that, you know, Brad,
Speaker 1: you said, if you do have a fear, don't don't
Speaker 1: build it up to be bigger than it is. Go
Speaker 1: actually go go into it, see what it is. See
Speaker 1: you know, Chase after that, and Ron, like you said,
Speaker 1: sometimes it's it's not about how much money you actually have.
Speaker 1: It's about you creating a monster out of all of
Speaker 1: the money that you don't have. Which leads me to
Speaker 1: my tip, which is something I'm pretty sure you told me.
Speaker 1: I know, Mickey told me. Who's shout outs to Mickey's
Speaker 1: he's my I don't know if I don't even know
Speaker 1: how to explain Mickey, but he I live with him,
Speaker 1: and he's kind of like my dad, but like he's
Speaker 1: also like fourth in line to be my dad. Um,
Speaker 1: so shout outs to Mickey. But one of his biggest
Speaker 1: things when I talk with him about money is well,
Speaker 1: I'll just go and make some more if I need
Speaker 1: if I need more, I'll go and make some more.
Speaker 1: And instead of the mindset of like I'm gonna lose
Speaker 1: it all, I'm gonna lose it all, is that there
Speaker 1: is a world of opportunity, just like Brad's doing with
Speaker 1: his son. You just create opportunity. You look for this opportunity.
Speaker 1: And so I think that's my biggest takeaway for it. Uh,
Speaker 1: That's something that I've worked on a lot recently in
Speaker 1: terms of, well, what if I run out and I
Speaker 1: and I can't pay rent anymore? Then my my mantra
Speaker 1: that I've tried to go after is well, I will
Speaker 1: figure out a way to go and make some more money.
Speaker 1: And if it means I have to downsize a bit,
Speaker 1: or I have to figure something else out, or go
Speaker 1: and move back in with my parents, so be it.
Speaker 1: But I think, like you guys have both said, you
Speaker 1: create these monsters that are scarier than the reality is.
Speaker 1: So those are those are Those are kind of my
Speaker 1: takeaways because we are where we are right now, and
Speaker 1: the world is very tight, and money's very tight, and
Speaker 1: like you said, we're all kind of on different ships
Speaker 1: in this rocky sea at the moment, Brad. A lot
Speaker 1: of people have gotten stimulus checks, a little bit less,
Speaker 1: a little bit more, some people are getting paid unemployment.
Speaker 1: What's your advice for for utilizing that money. So I
Speaker 1: would start by saying that understand that, again, you're wired
Speaker 1: to do everything wrong with that bonus check or stimulus money.
Speaker 1: So just understanding this. By the way, there's been tons
Speaker 1: of studies done in this we treat that type of
Speaker 1: money very differently than we do a salary. If you're
Speaker 1: blessed enough to have one, a lot of us will
Speaker 1: put that towards our goals and all this. And then
Speaker 1: we get this money coming over here from a stimulus
Speaker 1: check or something, and then we just blow it on
Speaker 1: crap that we later regret we do. So this is
Speaker 1: how we're wired. We're wired to do that with money
Speaker 1: that's unexpected. So just understanding it that is going to
Speaker 1: be your tendency. And then it comes down to your
Speaker 1: individual circumstances. Like normally I would say, hey, take that
Speaker 1: extra bonus, payoff debt if you happen to have it,
Speaker 1: or use it as an investment um. In this current environment,
Speaker 1: it might even be better though, to just keep that
Speaker 1: in a savings account. If you and have an emergency count,
Speaker 1: it's an opportunity to build one up just in case
Speaker 1: you hit hard times. Amazing Ron, I think it really
Speaker 1: does depend on what your individual circumstances are. There were
Speaker 1: people out there because of the vast number of unemployment numbers,
Speaker 1: people needed that money to buy food, to pay a
Speaker 1: little bit of rent. So in those instances, yes, go
Speaker 1: go and spend that for the other people that were
Speaker 1: still able to make ends meet in something like this,
Speaker 1: I would suggest keeping it liquid and keeping it handy.
Speaker 1: So if things continue along this trend and get better, great,
Speaker 1: you have an extra savings and things take a turn
Speaker 1: for the worse if we get hit with a second wave,
Speaker 1: then you've got more of a safety net to to
Speaker 1: ease your fears. Yeah. I mean, I guess it just
Speaker 1: depends on how much you know what what situation you're in.
Speaker 1: But I do agree that I have friends who are
Speaker 1: like yo, the stimulus check just came in, like what's toped?
Speaker 1: Like what do we all get in? Where are we
Speaker 1: all watching? And so I don't know what the answer is,
Speaker 1: but I know what the answer isn't And it's that.
Speaker 1: So if you're listening to this, um you know, make
Speaker 1: the best out of what you have and and just
Speaker 1: really do your best. But Ron Brad, thank you guys
Speaker 1: so much for hopping on and and talking me through
Speaker 1: my own fear, which I'm now realizing is a fear
Speaker 1: in a lot of people's hearts and minds. Thank you
Speaker 1: guys so much. I hope you're being safe and you
Speaker 1: guys are having a good time and being good dad's
Speaker 1: as you guys have mentioned, you are both being and
Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. This is the moment
Speaker 1: that we kind of we do some shameless promo. So, Brad,
Speaker 1: if you want to promote anything your social media, your
Speaker 1: company's uh, your address so that I can come and
Speaker 1: figure out more reasons why I'm afraid of being broke,
Speaker 1: give us some shout outs. You're gonna text me or
Speaker 1: you said you would tell Yeah, I'll text you those titles,
Speaker 1: pictures or something. Okay. So so all right, so you're
Speaker 1: not going to believe this by looking at me, but
Speaker 1: I'm kind of into TikTok. Oh. I'm actually doing a
Speaker 1: lot of TikTok videos. Yes, yes, all all related to
Speaker 1: financial education. I'm gonna partnership program with TikTok right now.
Speaker 1: So that's what I would encourage people to check me out,
Speaker 1: check me out on TikTok And what is your TikTok
Speaker 1: need it's uh Dr Brad plants, Dr Brad Klans doing
Speaker 1: the renegade. Guys doing the Renegade challenge is having a
Speaker 1: great time. I love that. Make sure you guys go
Speaker 1: and check out. I'm going to check out Dr klans
Speaker 1: is TikTok. Right after we finished recording this, Ron, you
Speaker 1: want to get a good old shout out to t
Speaker 1: b G Big Dog. We always feel that if your
Speaker 1: if your company is mentioned in the news or somewhere,
Speaker 1: that's usually bad. Um, so we try to stay out
Speaker 1: of that. I am going to pitch number one that, um,
Speaker 1: one of my really good friends is doing some really
Speaker 1: exciting creative stuff on the music side of things, and
Speaker 1: that friend is the person's hosting this podcast. So yeah,
Speaker 1: oh gosh. I was like, are you really going to
Speaker 1: come on my podcast and promote somebody else? That's not cool?
Speaker 1: And then I realized that you're making a joke about me,
Speaker 1: and now I feel bad for judging you. Well, thank you, Ron,
Speaker 1: I appreciate you. I also want to ask Brad whether
Speaker 1: or not he's written a book or if he's planning
Speaker 1: on it, because if he is, all I'm going to
Speaker 1: read it and be I'm going to recommend it. That's
Speaker 1: very nice of you. So um, a bit of a
Speaker 1: geek at my sixth one is coming out this shit.
Speaker 1: But mind over Money is probably the one that for
Speaker 1: most consumers, but I also write them for financial planners. Too,
Speaker 1: so ron for you, facilitating financial health would be the one.
Speaker 1: All right, So we're starting a doctor Klan's book club
Speaker 1: if you guys want to join in. We're starting with
Speaker 1: Mind over Money and then we're gonna go into the
Speaker 1: financial planning books. Both of you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You know you can always find me at alex ion
Speaker 1: O A I O n oh. Best part about having
Speaker 1: a unique class name. I love you. I hopefully will
Speaker 1: see you on the next episode and I'll see you
Speaker 1: guys later. We really want you to get the help
Speaker 1: you need, so if you need help, please seek independent
Speaker 1: advice from a competent healthcare or mental health professional. The
Speaker 1: views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those
Speaker 1: of the podcast author or into visuals participating in the podcast,
Speaker 1: and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.
Speaker 1: This podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental
Speaker 1: health advice, counseling, or therapy. Listening to the podcast does
Speaker 1: not establish doctor patient relationship with hosts or guests of
Speaker 1: alex Iona Let's Get Into It or I Heartmedia. No
Speaker 1: guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or
Speaker 1: opinions made on this podcast, wol if that's a doozy