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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Sunday, February eighth, It's Super

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Speaker 2: Bowl Sunday, and the Olympics are officially underway. We hope

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Speaker 2: you had a tremendous weekend and listen. There is so

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Speaker 2: much to get to. Stephanie Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong.

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Speaker 2: Body move in and listen. We have a stack knight

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Speaker 2: of headlines because the search remains on for Nancy Guthrie,

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Speaker 2: Savannah Guckrie's mother. This is now one week after her

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Speaker 2: alleged abduction. Is still unsolved and Savannah is asking for

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Speaker 2: more help. Also a major break in the Anna Kepner case,

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Speaker 2: the eight ten year old We've covered this extensively, who

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Speaker 2: died aboard a Carnival cruise ship. There has actually been

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Speaker 2: an arrest and actor Timothy Buzzfield's accused of child sexual abuse.

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Speaker 2: You'll remember we covered this. This is the husband of

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Speaker 2: our beloved Melissa Gilbert from Little House in the Prairies

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Speaker 2: husband he's been indicted by a grand jury, and also

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Speaker 2: jury selection begins this week. The accused wife who allegedly

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Speaker 2: took the life of her husband through fentanyl. Jury selection

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Speaker 2: starts this week, so we have to unpack that as well.

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Speaker 2: There's so much to get to. We have to get

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Speaker 2: to this Nancy Guthrie update. In fact, let's go to

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Speaker 2: a talk back right away.

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Speaker 3: Hey, girls, you have to talk about Nancy Guthrie in

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Speaker 3: detail and your reactions to the press conference and body

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Speaker 3: move in. Are you on this because you saw the

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Speaker 3: other crime, so I hope that you are actively trying

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Speaker 3: to solve this one. Everybody on Twitter is on it.

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Speaker 3: I am heartbroken.

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Speaker 4: No pressure on you, body, It's done.

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Speaker 2: There's nobody better than to have body listen on this.

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Speaker 2: I have an agree more.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I'm certainly following it, and you know, I'm

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Speaker 5: in all the different Facebook groups and watching all the

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Speaker 5: youtubes just like everybody else. There's a lot of questions

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Speaker 5: about this and things. A lot of things don't up

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Speaker 5: to me.

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Speaker 2: Why does it feel like I'm watching a reality show

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Speaker 2: right now? And I know it's not, but it seems

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Speaker 2: like this is just unimaginable. And sometimes I catch it

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Speaker 2: and I feel like I'm watching it twenty four hours

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Speaker 2: a day at this point, Yeah, I'm like, is this

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Speaker 2: even it doesn't add up? Like some of the stories

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Speaker 2: just aren't fully adding up at this point.

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Speaker 5: Like the thing is one of the things that gets

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Speaker 5: to me is we were told that we shouldn't show

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Speaker 5: up to church and that's why this. You know she

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Speaker 5: was missing. Well, guess what, you guys, She didn't go

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Speaker 5: to church. She went to an online church.

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Speaker 2: Maybe she didn't appear online and maybe they typically are

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Speaker 2: used to seeing certain people on a zoom. No, this

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Speaker 2: can't be because this is a very real piece of

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Speaker 2: the puzzle.

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Speaker 5: That's the puzzle.

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Speaker 2: Speaking about very from Jump Street, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: do you make of that.

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Speaker 6: So what we're all talking about, and it has been everywhere,

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Speaker 6: is the search for Nancy Guthrie. She's the eighty four

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Speaker 6: year old mother of NBC the Today Show hosts Savannah Guthrie.

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Speaker 6: And it's now been eight days since Nancy gudthree went

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Speaker 6: missing from her home. This is out in Tucson, Arizona.

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Speaker 6: The family since then has received multiple ransom notes allegedly

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Speaker 6: demanding bitcoin for her release. There's a deadline looming, and

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Speaker 6: law enforcement understandably remains really tight lipped about suspects or leads.

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Speaker 2: Is we're using the general public for these ransom notes,

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Speaker 2: like that's what's really interesting about this case specifically, and

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Speaker 2: and you guys might know differently, And anybody join us

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Speaker 2: eight eight eight three one crime if you have the answer.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that I've ever seen this level of

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Speaker 2: media like ransom information meaning speaking directly to the person

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Speaker 2: who's allegedly holding your beloved mother hostage via TMZ and

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Speaker 2: media outlets like you know, this technology didn't exist probably

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Speaker 2: the last time we saw something like this of its kind.

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Speaker 2: And it's so crazy because again, like where is this

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Speaker 2: tip hotline? I can only imagine the amount of tips

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Speaker 2: that are coming in right now. We know that we're

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Speaker 2: on borrowed time because poor Nancy needs medication, and you know,

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Speaker 2: Savannah and her siblings are just it's this is unheard of,

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Speaker 2: the unimaginable pain that must be going through. It's so

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Speaker 2: public too, right, so publicly, But are we really relying

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Speaker 2: on like shouldn't there a direct line between law enforcement

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Speaker 2: and said hostage negotiator with hostage keeper it's like, we're

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Speaker 2: going to do this online and we're going to wait

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Speaker 2: for X to solve it. Like this seems out of hands.

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Speaker 2: It does, and it's like twenty four hour coverage.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's I mean it's on every channel I turn

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Speaker 5: on right.

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Speaker 6: Enough too, and including the President of the United States.

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Speaker 4: You know, I don't know, Yeah, how do we not?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the President of the United States is weighing in

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Speaker 2: on Nancy Guthrie's I'm like, who's who's in charge of

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Speaker 2: Venezuela right now? I mean, how have we not found

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Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie? Like, I feel like this is I don't know,

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Speaker 2: something feels crazy to me. And I'm so heartbroken for

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Speaker 2: this family. I mean, this is no way to go

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Speaker 2: through things. And I got to be honest. That last

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Speaker 2: message where you know, they're saying we want to have

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Speaker 2: her home to celebrate, celebrate. What that to me was like,

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Speaker 2: is this are they assuming that she's no longer living.

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Speaker 2: I don't even want to say that out loud. It's thriving.

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Speaker 2: She you know, she's a pistol and I can imagine.

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Speaker 5: But I love that they were like, you know, celebrate,

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Speaker 5: we need peace and this is the only way it's

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Speaker 5: very valuable to us. I took it that way stuff.

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Speaker 5: I took it as you know, put her to breast

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Speaker 5: kind of situation, which is because this is.

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Speaker 2: Like a hostage negotiation in a way that I can't like.

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Speaker 2: Why are we all seeing this? I don't know if

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Speaker 2: something about it just really too much, way too much.

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Speaker 2: It's between seeing two people, three people murdered. We've all

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Speaker 2: witnessed it. We've seen now a live hostage negotiation. We're

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Speaker 2: all knee deep in files that are so disturbing that

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Speaker 2: I don't even want to talk about that because I'm

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Speaker 2: I think we're all like processing and like it feels

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Speaker 2: like the gig is up and that we none of

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Speaker 2: us were right, and none of us were.

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Speaker 4: Wrong, we were all had.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. We just have to not fall for

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Speaker 2: like just staying calm and in this day and age,

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Speaker 2: how do we not have Nancy Guthrie home safely?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 6: I think we have another audio plea, which is the

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Speaker 6: only word to describe it, from Savannah Guthrie.

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Speaker 7: We received your message, and we understand. We beg you

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Speaker 7: now to return our mother to us so that we

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Speaker 7: can celebrate with her. This is the only way we

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Speaker 7: will have peace. This is very valuable to us, and

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Speaker 7: we will pay.

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Speaker 2: Like you know, listen, And these are not original thoughts.

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Speaker 2: I've been just watching various profilers and hostage negotiators having

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Speaker 2: discussions about the type of language that's being used, very

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Speaker 2: obviously intentionally in these public outcries to the said hostage keeper.

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Speaker 2: Is that what they're called? If you have somebody hostage,

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Speaker 2: are you called a keeper? What is that called?

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Speaker 5: Keepers?

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Speaker 2: Hostage user? I don't like this obductor? Yeah, excuse me,

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Speaker 2: so this abductor or said abductors. They're using very significant

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Speaker 2: language here, and it's shifted from you know, there must

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Speaker 2: be obviously something in this that they're seeing as valid, right,

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Speaker 2: there's some sort of identifier that's the proovement exactly. The

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Speaker 2: word celebrated is obviously the word piece. You know, these

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Speaker 2: are very calming, happy thoughts. We're not saying the word possession,

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Speaker 2: take her out of your there's nothing of like your grips.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's nothing about penalty. But look, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it runs the risk that you're dealing with, you know,

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Speaker 2: some schmageggy off the street that could care less and

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Speaker 2: has never had any of anything to do with this crime.

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Speaker 2: And they're going to get bitcoin sent to them in

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Speaker 2: some anonymous source, and what if this Guthrie family has

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Speaker 2: nothing to show for it. But you know, justice will prevail.

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Speaker 2: But I'm so sad to hear these facts.

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, And you know, the investigation, so many agencies are involved.

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Speaker 6: And just really recently, investigators returned to Nancy Guthrie's property

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Speaker 6: and they appeared to be concentrating on a septic area.

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Speaker 4: Behind the house.

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Speaker 6: So we don't know what that means, but that appeared

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Speaker 6: to happen recently, and there was additional drone video captured

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Speaker 6: that you could see the detectives lifting a manhole cover

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Speaker 6: and seeing the space below. In terms of the ransom notes,

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Speaker 6: and you know, as you guys said, they've been coming

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Speaker 6: in multiples and publicly. So the first ransom note was

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Speaker 6: received back on Monday, February second, and in that it

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Speaker 6: was a demand for millions of dollars in bitcoin for

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Speaker 6: Nancy Guthrie's return. And initially the deadline was Thursday of

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Speaker 6: last week. There's a second deadline for tomorrow, Monday, with

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Speaker 6: more severe consequences. And I'm not sure exactly what that.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: You know, you're saying this is life and death. Right,

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Speaker 2: So it's two part here. If we're going to wit

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Speaker 2: the assertion that this said abductor or abductors has Nancy

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Speaker 2: Guthrie surviving and thriving, that would assume that they were

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Speaker 2: in it enough, entrenched enough in this woman's life that

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Speaker 2: they knew her coming and goings, that they knew what

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Speaker 2: kind of medication that she was on. These are not

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Speaker 2: like hard to get medications, right, I wouldn't record them exactly,

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Speaker 2: and you know, you sort of know, Okay, there's a

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Speaker 2: little ring camera by the way, take away for all

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Speaker 2: of us on ring cameras. We should have that discussion

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Speaker 2: also this week, you know, a couple things for us

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Speaker 2: all to remind ourselves of. So that would imply that

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Speaker 2: this is a very sophisticated operation. Right, there's two parts.

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Speaker 2: Is one, these are sophisticated hostage takers for big money.

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Speaker 2: It's been said that it's targeted perhaps at maybe it's

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Speaker 2: at Savannah. What case could she possibly be working on

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Speaker 2: that this is so targeted? Obviously there's been other assertions

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Speaker 2: made to other family members, none of which has panned out.

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Speaker 2: There was a white vehicle allegedly seen before the house,

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Speaker 2: so is this like Ocean's eleven and there's like people

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Speaker 2: in this van and they're watching the coming and going

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Speaker 2: so of an elderly eighty four year old, wild, vibrant woman.

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Speaker 2: And when did it turn to a hostage situation versus

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Speaker 2: what I fear now is that they're going back and

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Speaker 2: have now multiple times to this scene, which they kind

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Speaker 2: of like were like, Okay, we're done here, got it.

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Speaker 2: We see some blood, we see this now. They're in

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Speaker 2: the septic tanks. You know, we know this from just

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Speaker 2: doing so many other cases in forensics with Joseph Scott Morgan.

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Speaker 2: Septic tanks, cements, things that are in the ground. These

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Speaker 2: are really big secret keepers when it comes to any

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Speaker 2: kind of crime scene. You know, it's like you don't

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Speaker 2: want to destroy the crime scene because down the toy,

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Speaker 2: down the toilet. You know, imagine you're washing your bloody hands.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm paraphrasing. This is not connected to this case.

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Speaker 2: You're washing up in the sink, or you even wash

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Speaker 2: your hands in the sink. There could be DNA on

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Speaker 2: the blow your nose. These are messy scenarios. Obviously, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't a perfect scenario because there was blood outside the door, Like,

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Speaker 2: what's to say that she her life? I mean, not

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Speaker 2: even want to make speculations about this in the house,

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Speaker 2: Like how do we know it was an abduction not

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Speaker 2: a straight murder like this seems we don't know. Would

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Speaker 2: anybody hate Nancy? This is just and it's like tugging

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Speaker 2: on every human beings heartstrings. And that's also this weird

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Speaker 2: layer because no matter what you think about the world,

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Speaker 2: we all love our mom's and you know, or if

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Speaker 2: you are mom, you can imagine, or if you're a grandma,

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Speaker 2: or if you've been a grandma, you know all the

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Speaker 2: things it touches every human. So you know, this has

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Speaker 2: become like a America's story of heartbreak right now, right record. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: anybody could imagine you'd pay any dollar amount to get

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Speaker 2: your mother home safely. God knows I would.

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Speaker 5: But I wanted to talk if it's about the search

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Speaker 5: that was conducted at the Sisters last night.

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Speaker 2: Yes do that?

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Speaker 8: Yes?

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Speaker 2: Is okay?

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Speaker 5: So it was conducted by the local sheriff's office. It

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Speaker 5: wasn't the FBI, which I thought was interesting. It was well,

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Speaker 5: the first thing that was interesting it was very late

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Speaker 5: at night. Second thing that was interesting, it was the

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Speaker 5: local Sheriff's office. It wasn't the FBI. The third thing

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Speaker 5: that was interesting is they came out with some bags

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Speaker 5: of stuff, right, but they weren't like dressed in like PPE.

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Speaker 5: Really not the kind of PPE you would whar if

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Speaker 5: you were doing like lumin aal tech like blue star testing, right.

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Speaker 5: So I don't think it was real forensics, you know, information.

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Speaker 5: I think it's possible that they were looking at stuff

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Speaker 5: from the dinner that she had on the Saturday before

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Speaker 5: she went missing.

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Speaker 8: Because I was about to ask you, why would the

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Speaker 8: local versus FBI, like what does that mean?

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Speaker 5: He wasn't that important?

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's involved, is there a world?

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Speaker 6: Or maybe they wanted to confirm that there was a

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Speaker 6: new message by the way, that came out on Friday

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Speaker 6: since we've uh since we've last aired, and this this

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Speaker 6: message from the hostage keeper. It's not technically a ransom note.

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Speaker 6: It was received by ko LD TV. No, no new

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Speaker 6: demands were made, and it did not provide proof of life. However,

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Speaker 6: it did include sensitive personal information about Nancy Guthrie's life.

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Speaker 6: So I don't you know that's enough exactly corroborating.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely they had to you know, my there's information that

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Speaker 5: you can find here, then it's at the sister's house

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Speaker 5: something like that. One hundred percent it could be something

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Speaker 5: like that. It just didn't. It just didn't give me

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Speaker 5: the impression that they were doing a lot of friendsic

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Speaker 5: testing because I know a lot of people were like, Oh,

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Speaker 5: they're going to arrest the husband of the sister or

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Speaker 5: you know whatever. But I didn't get that vibe. And listen,

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Speaker 5: it's just a vibe, okay vibe.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, certain family members it had been reported.

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Speaker 2: We heard the reports as well that there was an

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Speaker 2: arrest pending. This is many many days ago that ended

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Speaker 2: up not panning out. So we purposely haven't really covered

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Speaker 2: this because again, falsely accusing somebody of something so serious

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Speaker 2: is equally serious, you know, and can put a target

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Speaker 2: on their back, and you know, kind of hard to

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Speaker 2: come back from some of this stuff. So we've been

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Speaker 2: pretty mindful about that. But again, we're a weekend. It

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Speaker 2: seemed like a twenty four hour survival rate based on

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Speaker 2: her medication, so this is next level.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're going to continue to follow this. We come

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Speaker 5: back a major break in the Anna Kepner cruise ship

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Speaker 5: Homicide Plus after Timothy Busfield formally indicted on child sex charges.

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Speaker 5: Keep it right here a Tree Crimes Night.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph here with Courtney

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Speaker 2: and Body and listen. Super Bowl Sunday is a pack day.

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Speaker 2: I hope you guys are having a blast, but we

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Speaker 2: have a lot to get through. We've been talking a

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Speaker 2: ton about Nancy Guthrie and her abduction and I just

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Speaker 2: have to say, I'm putting prayers out there that she

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Speaker 2: is going to be returned safe and well, and I

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Speaker 2: know we all feel that way, and we'll be following

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Speaker 2: it very very closely. And also, this Anna Kepner death murder,

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Speaker 2: I should say on a carnival cruise line eighteen years old.

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Speaker 2: We've been covering this case since day one, and there's

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Speaker 2: been a very twisted turn in this and heart wrenching one.

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Speaker 2: You know, Body, do you want to fill us in?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, heart wrenching for sure, but like to be expected.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we all knew this was coming. Federal authorities

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Speaker 5: have finally arrested the sixteen year old stepbrother of Anna

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Speaker 5: Kepner and it's been like three months since her death.

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Speaker 5: So this has taken quite some time. They must have

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Speaker 5: really needed to get like all the legal jurisdiction things

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Speaker 5: worked out. But yeah, he's been arrested, you know. And

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Speaker 5: this is after her death aboard that Carnival Horizon, Anna Keptner.

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Speaker 5: She was eighteen years old. She was a Florida High

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Speaker 5: school senior. She was found dead in her cabin on

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Speaker 5: November seventh, twenty twenty five, on that cruise ship. She

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Speaker 5: was vacationing with her family in the Caribbean, and her

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Speaker 5: death was caused by mechanical exphyxiation. Investigators have long focused

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Speaker 5: on the stepbrother who was sharing that cabin with her

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Speaker 5: at the time of her death. Yeah, and you know,

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Speaker 5: they're not really going to release the name of the

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Speaker 5: suspect because he is a minor. So all court records

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Speaker 5: are going to remain sealed, you know, because they can't

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Speaker 5: really give information on miners, right, and that is including

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Speaker 5: the precise charges, like we don't know if it's like

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Speaker 5: aggravated murder, murder, you know, we just don't know. Post hearing,

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Speaker 5: because they had this hearing. He was brought before a

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Speaker 5: federal magistrate judge in Miami and he was escorted by

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Speaker 5: our friends at the US Marshals this, they're taking this

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Speaker 5: very very seriously. Post hearing he was seeing the suspect,

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Speaker 5: the teenager. He was released to the custody of a guardian,

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Speaker 5: so he's not like in jail, but he's likely, very

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Speaker 5: likely on some kind of home arrest. He was seen

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Speaker 5: entering a probation office for the pre trial processing after

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Speaker 5: his federal court appearance in Miami. There's been no public

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Speaker 5: disclosure of any kind of bond condition, supervisor terms, any

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Speaker 5: travel restrictions, or any electronic monitoring if any. But again

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Speaker 5: I'm assuming that I would assume if his.

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Speaker 2: Sixteen year old boy killed his stepsister, if that's true.

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Speaker 6: Arrest, I would think, so do we have information on

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Speaker 6: who the guardian is?

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Speaker 4: Because if you guys, remember an.

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Speaker 6: Incredibly complicated emilial situation. So Anna Kapner's father was on

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Speaker 6: the cruise ship, as was Anna his wife, who is

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Speaker 6: Anna Kepner's stepmom, who is also the mother of the

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Speaker 6: suspect now in custody. So I kind of can't imagine

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Speaker 6: that he is released to Anna Kepner's father.

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Speaker 5: I can't imagine so simplifying that Courtney, Anna Kepner's dad

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Speaker 5: is married to the suspect's mom.

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Speaker 2: Are they still together? Can you imagine something that would

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Speaker 2: break up? Could you add about more than my child

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Speaker 2: was killed by yours? Allegedly, they did release a statement together.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if that means they're still together together,

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Speaker 5: but they did a statement together, if you guys want

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Speaker 5: me to read it. Yes, the dad the father of

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Speaker 5: Anna Kepner, she's the victim, all right, and the mother

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Speaker 5: of the suspect. Okay, So the dad's name is Chris

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Speaker 5: Kepner and the stepmom is Chantel Kepner. And here's what

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Speaker 5: they said. We believe in accountability and in the importance

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Speaker 5: of justice being carried out. Our daughter deserves justice, and

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Speaker 5: her life deserves to be honored through a full and

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Speaker 5: fair legal process. We are grateful to the investigators and

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Speaker 5: the prosecutors who have worked to uncover the truth and

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Speaker 5: to ensure that this crime is treated with the seriousness

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Speaker 5: it warrants. So it sounds like a pretty united front.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that makes me very upset. I'm upsetable today,

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Speaker 2: so just go with me here. But again, I was

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Speaker 2: a little hold and out hope that maybe this young

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Speaker 2: sixteen year old boy was rascaling or something had gotten

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Speaker 2: maybe out of hand, maybe he had tried alcohol. I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I was holding out hope this young man

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Speaker 2: had just this terrible thing happened.

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Speaker 5: You might you might be to come back from now.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, but also now I'm hearing in my head

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Speaker 2: these other accounts of maybe Anna Kepner's ex boyfriend, who

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Speaker 2: to your earlier point back in the day said he

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Speaker 2: got a weird vibe and that Anna was like pretty

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Speaker 2: open about she didn't have good vibes around this kid.

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Speaker 2: And you know, when you're blending family, something cautionary tale

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Speaker 2: for all of us, like we have to be careful

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Speaker 2: like these circles people you know, say one thing, but

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Speaker 2: they don't want to upset anybody, and they don't want

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Speaker 2: to upset their parents and want their their their life

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Speaker 2: to fit together. Courtney, I think it was you that

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Speaker 2: said these two should never have been sharing a room

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Speaker 2: in the first place. There was a third child in

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Speaker 2: that room. Again, I'm not putting we're just like learning.

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Speaker 2: I'm I'm not casting shame on anybody's family in their

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Speaker 2: carnival cruise line plans. But it's just something for you know,

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Speaker 2: just something that like it just seemed impossible to me

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Speaker 2: that this is the way this tragedy ends. These this family.

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Speaker 2: Mem I remember mem who was Anna Kepner's grandma, was

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Speaker 2: on the c cruise and she said like they were

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Speaker 2: just like stepbrother and stepsister. They were two peas in

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Speaker 2: a pod. And her experience.

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Speaker 5: But Stephanie hold on to some hope, right, because we

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Speaker 5: don't know what the charges are, right, so it could

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Speaker 5: be like manslaughter to your point. I'm just saying, to

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Speaker 5: your point, it could be something like there was an accident.

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Speaker 5: The issue I take with any of that is that

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Speaker 5: he hit her body. Well, if he's guilty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and through life preservers on under the bed that's true,

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Speaker 2: if that's true, and then went away and went about it,

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Speaker 2: went to bed. Allegedly they didn't go to sleep. If

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Speaker 2: that's the case, that seems impossible.

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Speaker 6: Oh well, yes he did, according to all accounts. He

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Speaker 6: also then I believe he went to a like a

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Speaker 6: safe a mental facility because he had something of a

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Speaker 6: break right afterward and were so beside himself.

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Speaker 5: I feel really bad for Anna Pepner's natural brother. I

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Speaker 5: should say, I know not a stepbrother.

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Speaker 2: In the room. I know it took her natural brother

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Speaker 2: and he was the third member in the room and

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Speaker 2: he tried to get in the room and was hushed away.

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Speaker 2: If I'm not mistaken, and these is a real family tragedy,

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Speaker 2: because you know, again the ripples of this go will

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Speaker 2: be endless. And little Anna Kepner had no fighting chance

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Speaker 2: and she had a big life ahead. You know, she

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Speaker 2: was a cheerleader and she was going to start her

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Speaker 2: life anew after high school. I mean, this was a

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Speaker 2: real life interrupted.

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Speaker 5: So to your point, earlier media report cited the father

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Speaker 5: of Anna Kepner's you know, ex boyfriend, alleging that the

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Speaker 5: stepbrother had, you know, this strange infatuation with Anna Kepner

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Speaker 5: and once climbed into her bed while they were on FaceTime,

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Speaker 5: not facetiming with her little boyfriend, and the little stepbrother,

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Speaker 5: the suspect in this case, kind of climbed into the

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Speaker 5: bed and Anna Kepner, you know, just kind of had

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Speaker 5: a very strange vibe. Now, this has not been confirmed

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Speaker 5: by law enforcement, and it's something that we talked about

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Speaker 5: earlier on in the case. You know, previous reporting also

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Speaker 5: indicated that the step brother told investigators he doesn't remember

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Speaker 5: or anything from that night. And although you know, the timing,

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Speaker 5: the context and all that remain unclear. We don't really

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Speaker 5: know in what context you said that. And you know

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Speaker 5: she was found under the bed, she was wrapped in

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Speaker 5: the blanket and covered by those life fest and it

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Speaker 5: just if this wasn't an accident, it makes me kind

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Speaker 5: of what do you do?

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Speaker 2: This is a horrible thing to even think about, But

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Speaker 2: what do you do in that situation. It's a horrible accident,

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Speaker 2: You go get help.

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Speaker 7: I have won.

430
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, you're a sixties.

431
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 5: It's not waking night. We were wrestling, and I don't

432
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 5: know what happened, but it's alive, you know, Yeah, right,

433
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 5: that's what you do, That's what you're.

434
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 4: Supposed to do. But teenage minds can often.

435
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 2: This is why they're frontal lobes. I'm not making an excuse,

436
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: of course, but as a cautionary tale. You know, you

437
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 2: still be alive.

438
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 4: Right.

439
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 5: Authorities haven't disclosed any forensic timelines, toxicology results. There's been

440
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 5: no surveillance footage, you know, sent out to the media.

441
00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 5: There's been no key card data or any witness statements,

442
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 5: all of which remain unknown due to the sealed case.

443
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 5: So we're going to continue to follow this, so stay

444
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 5: with us for that. This is true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio.

445
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,679
Speaker 5: We're talking true crime all the time. I'm here with

446
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 5: Courtney and Stephanie, and we were just kind of wrapping

447
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,320
Speaker 5: up the update in the and Or kept our case.

448
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 5: In Courtney, I understand you have an update on something else.

449
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 4: I absolutely do.

450
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:26,359
Speaker 6: So this regards actor Timothy Busfields the allegations of child

451
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 6: sexual abuse. So a new Mexico grand jury has indeed

452
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 6: indicted Timothy Busfield and it's for multiple felony counts and

453
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,160
Speaker 6: it is for criminal sexual contact of a child. So

454
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 6: this means that the case will be proceeding to trial.

455
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 6: He was arrested back in January, and we were gobsmacked

456
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 6: when this happened.

457
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 4: You may note Timothy Busfield, he's got red hair.

458
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 6: He's a veteran actor director, was really prominent on the

459
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 6: West Wing. And also Stephanie as you mentioned, and is

460
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 6: married to actress Melissa Gilbert. So this arrest last month

461
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 6: took place after a child actor who Timothy Busfield was

462
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 6: directing at the time in a project called The Cleaning Leader.

463
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 6: He alleges that Busfield repeatedly touched him inappropriately. The boy

464
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 6: was only seven and eight years old at the time,

465
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 6: and the allegations is that that's happened over multiple incidents

466
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 6: ranging from the end of twenty twenty two and into

467
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 6: the spring of twenty twenty four. So talk about a

468
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 6: power imbalance of being a seven year old child and

469
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 6: an adult grown man who also is the director.

470
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 2: Yes, and Jesse Devil's advocate. His take on this is

471
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: that this particular family that's made these accusations ps there's

472
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 2: been other accusations against him in previous scenarios, so this

473
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: would be his third or his fourth if I'm not

474
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,119
Speaker 2: mistaken correct. But his excuse, which by the way, was

475
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 2: pretty compelling when he was leaving and it seemed like

476
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 2: he was going to have a smooth sale after this arrest,

477
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: was that the family was fraudsters, that dad was a fraudster,

478
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: and that they had had lawsuits previously to other people

479
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: that were fraudulent false accusations. I don't know what kind

480
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: of false extigations exactly, but that was a pretty compelling

481
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 2: new development to I mean, if you're a Tim Busfield

482
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 2: and you're being accused of pedophilia in the workplace, you're like,

483
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 2: that's that's a pretty hard stamp to come back from.

484
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: And we were pretty you know, stressed out about that.

485
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 6: Because, however, Timothy Busfield civilly sued the family that you're

486
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 6: referring to for you know, spreading false rumors, and he

487
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 6: lost that case.

488
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: Not to mention Melissa Gilbert, who's his wife, I've been

489
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 2: kind of slightly obsessed with her Prairie line, you know

490
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: that they're back on my radar. I've noticed that she's

491
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: been online baking and cooking and.

492
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 6: Shafting when nothing's going on, right, and wearing mature women's

493
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 6: stresses that I now get advertised all the time.

494
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like seeing these moomos everywhere in my feed.

495
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 2: It's all right, So now I feel so conflicted. Right,

496
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 2: so now I'm mad about that. First of all, this

497
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,320
Speaker 2: time period again, your husband has been accused. I'm not shading.

498
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 2: This is not any this is just a cautionary tale

499
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: to humans. Right, what does this woman do in this point?

500
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 2: This is Melissa, This is half Pint from Little House

501
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: in the Prairie, our beloved America's sweetheart, my personal childhood sweetheart. Right,

502
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: and she's married to this guy. Right, he's been accused

503
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: of something. Ah, we're all like major U kick came

504
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: out of the club. And then she's like, no, no, no,

505
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 2: it's this very incongruent to the man that I know,

506
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: no no, And then he gets like it seems like,

507
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 2: oh maybe there's like he's been falsely accused. Now the

508
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 2: times though, oh now the grand jury is like, no,

509
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: he's a super creep and you're in this middle land?

510
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: Do you defend him? Do you continue to post about

511
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: baking and cooking?

512
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 5: I wouldn't.

513
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 2: This is crazy.

514
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 5: I would listen. I's got enough money, I do, He's

515
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 5: got enough money.

516
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 8: She doesn't?

517
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 4: She believe them?

518
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 2: If no convincing, because that's what these creeps do, the

519
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: predators allegedly. Allegedly, he claims his innocence. However, sometimes predators

520
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: like to have a beard, like to have people in

521
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: their circle that only have the kindest things to say

522
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 2: about them, because guess what, they're only kind to them

523
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: because they need their They're going to need their word

524
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: about their kindness. It's just how manipulated these people are.

525
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 6: True well, Mustfield also he had seventy letters of support

526
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 6: for his character, So I think.

527
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 2: He plays the most integral character known to man. Like

528
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 2: every character he's played if you guys don't know him

529
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: because he's gray now he had red hair. He's like

530
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 2: the guy that's built of pure character. He's like the

531
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 2: guy that has like matty And maybe that's maybe.

532
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 5: His whole life. Is him acting exactly.

533
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: Maybe the plead of the video on TMZ that I

534
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 2: watched that, I was like, Oh, what if this guy's

535
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: right and he's being falsely accused by fraudsters, this would

536
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,840
Speaker 2: be a dead end or is this just ugh? I

537
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: don't know. I feel mad about it. I feel like

538
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 2: this is a terrible, terrible thing if this is true

539
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 2: and wicked.

540
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 5: Well, I happen to be a person that bleeds where

541
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 5: there's smoke, their's fire, and there's been so many accusations

542
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 5: about him over the past decades, like this spans multiple

543
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 5: decades that I tend to believe that there's some flier there.

544
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 8: Wow.

545
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 4: Well.

546
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 6: Busfield's attorney said that the case is fundamentally unsound.

547
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 4: It can't be proven at trial.

548
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 6: He also said that Busfield will fight these charges at

549
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 6: every stage and looks forward to testing the state's case

550
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 6: in open court where evidence matters, So you know matters,

551
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 6: that's correct, and so far he has not entered a plea,

552
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 6: but we will obviously be following this.

553
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 2: What are these like at home? I can only imagine.

554
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 2: Can you imagine these conversations happening around the kitchen table

555
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 2: right now? If this is your life, we want to

556
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 2: hear from you eight eight eight three one crime or

557
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: leave us a talk back, because I know we're talking

558
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: about such crazy heavy things. Timothy Bussfield indicted by a

559
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: grand jury, so this is not going away for him

560
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 2: anytime soon. And you know, just for clarity, because we

561
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: were discussing this during the break, I want to make

562
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: sure we were clear about sort of the previous charges

563
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: in any civil wrongdoing, et cetera. So for clarity, the

564
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 2: twins that he's currently being accused by now has a

565
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: set of parents who are the they're the ones following

566
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: the lawsuit on behalf of their sons, correct, And that

567
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: family has been accused of having previous lawsuits with other people,

568
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: not Tim Bussfield. That meaning like they're like this is

569
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 2: their thing, that they like to sue people, certainly people

570
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: in child positions, and that maybe that there was some

571
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:16,239
Speaker 2: revenge involved. Remember that these young boys were actors who

572
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 2: were released from the role and allegedly, allegedly, allegedly mom

573
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: of these boys was heard saying, I'm going to get revenge.

574
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 2: And is this revenge? Right? Is this way of bringing

575
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 2: a director down? Maybe they know that he's been like

576
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 2: accused of things before and this will really be believable.

577
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: This is what they're saying. And but other.

578
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 5: Doctor didn't a doctor call in the complaint?

579
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 6: That's correct and signs of PTSD y yeah, correct.

580
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 5: It gives me pause that there's some credibility here.

581
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: And then also on a previous now, which is what

582
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 2: Courtney was speaking about earlier, previously, many years ago, so

583
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: he was also accused of wrongdoing. And this person had

584
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: a dad, This young accuser had a father who was

585
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: a therapist, and that therapist was like, which is crazy,

586
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: don't worry, mister Busfield. Allegedly I'm going to have my

587
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: daughter get therapy and we're just going to move on

588
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 2: from this.

589
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 5: Is that a therapical And I think I think Busfield

590
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 5: said I'm going to therapy and it will never happen again.

591
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 5: And the dad was like, yeah, okay.

592
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 6: Okay, great, that's correct, and ps I guess I guess

593
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 6: twenty twenty hindsight, But I cannot imagine in one universe

594
00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 6: the father of a daughter who says she has been

595
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 6: abused is like, no problem, Timothy Busfield. And then additionally

596
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 6: there was a defamation suit. This goes back literally thirty

597
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 6: years and you know, a different person alleged that he

598
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 6: had done sexual assault against them, and he Busfield then

599
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 6: unsuccess hassfully sued them for defamation and was ultimately ordered

600
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 6: to pay so his claim, his claim of they're lying,

601
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 6: they're lying. A civil court didn't believe that. Wow, there's

602
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:12,280
Speaker 6: many sides.

603
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 5: This is like, again, there's a lot of smoke right in.

604
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 2: I thought it was. You know, at one point I

605
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 2: felt offended at the fact that they had to bring

606
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 2: in Melissa Gilbert, his wife, like she's having to do

607
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: with this, Like why we have to hear about half

608
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,239
Speaker 2: clients sex life. You know, they were being she was

609
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: being asked very like private things about her, like something

610
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 2: basically that I'm paraphrasing that it was pretty sexless and

611
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 2: kind of cuddly.

612
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 6: By exaggerating that, no you're not, and now I need

613
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 6: a bath, you're not exaggerating at all.

614
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 4: And it's yeah, guys, hi.

615
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 9: This is this is producer ava. Something that I don't

616
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 9: think we've ever discussed. And I think is an interesting

617
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 9: little detail about miss Melissa. I don't think she's as

618
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 9: in a sent and as she seems, because remember when,

619
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 9: right before this was all coming out, she made that

620
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 9: post on Instagram being like it was so inappropriate that

621
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 9: as a fifteen year old I had to kiss a

622
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 9: twenty four year old on the little house on the prairie.

623
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 8: Whatever.

624
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: True. We were all like, so true.

625
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 9: It's so ironic that she would post this when her

626
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 9: husband is getting all cut up in these allegations. Well,

627
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 9: it turns out she was on a phone call with

628
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 9: like the police knowing that these allegations were going to

629
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 9: come out before she made the Instagram post about the

630
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 9: fifteen being fifteen on set, So she already knew that

631
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 9: her husband was facing child sex abuse allegations when she

632
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 9: decided to make an Instagram post like wow, like I.

633
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 4: Can't believe I did this.

634
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: Okay, Well wait, so I want to stop there for

635
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 2: where are we with the clock? I know I'm crazy

636
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 2: with I'm not gonna I'm going to keep a brief.

637
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: But that's a real tell. That's such an interesting clue, Eva,

638
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,479
Speaker 2: because right I've been really holding on to that, because

639
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: there's been so many conversations that we're having, not only

640
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 2: here on this show, because we're having it in like

641
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,360
Speaker 2: I don't know the country about minors and consent and

642
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 2: the age, and you know, she Melissa Gilbert, was throwing

643
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 2: her her hat in the conversation essentially by doing that

644
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: to hear that that was maybe a little yeah, it

645
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: seemed timely, it seemed appropriate, and by the way, that

646
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 2: was an appropriate statement. It was strange that she was

647
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,319
Speaker 2: kissing a twenty three years old at fifteen years old.

648
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: Problem for a different day. We'll discuss, however, if that

649
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 2: was strategy, which is what this is, implying that she

650
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: knew full well that her husband was about to get

651
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: arrested on pedophilia charges for the third time potentially, and

652
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 2: he was going to go down and that might have

653
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 2: a bad look on her, and in a way to

654
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 2: kind of step out of the conversation, she stepped into

655
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 2: the conversation with her you know, appalled fifteen year old

656
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 2: self as a moment of strategy. That is concerning to

657
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,959
Speaker 2: me also because again this means that we're so being

658
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 2: like we learned about justin Baldoni and Blake lively. I

659
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 2: know that seems like a silly case to put into

660
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: this category, but it really brought to light to me.

661
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,279
Speaker 2: And we work in content daily, but I don't really

662
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: understand the PR machine the way I think I do

663
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: better now that we were exposed to that case about

664
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: how PR and public relations when I say PR, and

665
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 2: how people pay to get opinions out there and use

666
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: their status to kind of make pleas to all of

667
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: us and people like me who are watching it if

668
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 2: they find it convincing, and then we categorize accordingly. It's

669
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,440
Speaker 2: so manipulative and I feel manipulated by that.

670
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 5: So manipulated, and like it's almost like it could never

671
00:37:46,480 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 5: happen here. Look, I had to deal with this when

672
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 5: I was fifteen.

673
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:52,479
Speaker 2: I would never I would never put another young girl

674
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 2: something like that.

675
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 5: It's getting in front of it.

676
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would like to have full transfer, you know what,

677
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 2: you know, as somebody I worked on in one of

678
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: American Idol, I would like to have live trials on

679
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 2: the air and like we vote, would like I would

680
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:14,000
Speaker 2: like to vote on the jury so jury press you know,

681
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 2: you know, press nineteen for a jury number six, and

682
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 2: like we collectively as a group because I got to

683
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 2: tell you, I think when put up against the wall,

684
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 2: when my back is up, and I may get a

685
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 2: million mistakes in my day, I mean millions. I mean

686
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: the list is too long, learn from them hard way

687
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: always unfortunately. But if my back is up against the wall,

688
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: and I say this as ninety nine point nine percent

689
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 2: of us, anybody even listening, when our backs are up

690
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 2: against the wall, we do the right thing. That is

691
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,439
Speaker 2: not the right thing, like we are seeing right now

692
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 2: people's character and like not doing the right thing. And

693
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,759
Speaker 2: I know all of us and anybody listening like that's

694
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 2: not the norm. And I've been in some funky situations

695
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: in my day. When someone's back is up against the wall,

696
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: they help. I've been helped in ways that cannot be

697
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: described from people who we would seem like on our

698
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 2: noses from opposite sides of the planet, and people are

699
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 2: good like that's this is crazy and disgusting. And if

700
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: that's like a machine that we're all falling, I don't

701
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 2: know how to help. But I'm going to get off

702
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 2: my grandstand.

703
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,920
Speaker 6: Sorry, No, I mean well timed appropriate to the times

704
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:25,879
Speaker 6: that we are living in.

705
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 2: Now, Like I just think we all have better we

706
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,120
Speaker 2: know better. This is like bad, that's very bad.

707
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 5: Everybody's just so preservation mode exactly.

708
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 2: That's just something to like trust each other more because

709
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: I think we talk about some of these disgusting people

710
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's really manipulative and horrible. I don't

711
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 2: think that's the norm though. In fact, this is so

712
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 2: abnormal that that's why it's good that we're talking about

713
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,880
Speaker 2: it so we can spot it in our own lives

714
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 2: so collectively we can all continue to do the right thing,

715
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 2: because I do leave in our hearts that we do

716
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 2: because this is madness. And don't get me even started

717
00:39:58,239 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 2: on an Epstein file with the pedophilia talk.

718
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,919
Speaker 4: Oh big, big breath, big breath. Listen. If you are

719
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,880
Speaker 4: just joining us, this is true crime. Tonight. We are

720
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 4: on iHeartRadio. I'm Courtney.

721
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 6: I'm so lucky to be spending this Sunday with Stephanie

722
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 6: Leacher and Body Move In and double producers Taha and

723
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 6: Ava Oh I love it, and Sam and Adam in

724
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 6: the control room as always. So Ava, I think you

725
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 6: had some dms that we should be talking about.

726
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 4: Can you share?

727
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 9: Yes, I'd love to. I love getting everyone's dms. I

728
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 9: have the Instagram account on my phone. It's one of

729
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 9: the first things I check in the morning and right

730
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 9: before I go to sleep. You know, this is one

731
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 9: that I thought was interesting because I personally know nothing

732
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 9: about bitcoin, and I think there are a lot of

733
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 9: misconceptions about it, so I wanted to read this one

734
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 9: and kind of clear it up on air. So this

735
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,720
Speaker 9: is from Kate, and it's referring to the Nancy Guthrie

736
00:40:54,760 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 9: disappearance and how her alleged abductors asks for bitcoin as

737
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,319
Speaker 9: kind of their payment for her ransom, and whether or

738
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 9: not like authorities can use that. So Kate said, I

739
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 9: thought bitcoin was completely traceable and it's recorded everywhere it

740
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 9: gets transferred, so if they use that to pay someone else,

741
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 9: there's always going to be a trail. It's great because

742
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 9: it cannot be laundered or untraceable because it's on a blockchain.

743
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 9: Every single move is recorded and it cannot be destroyed.

744
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 9: So that's from Kate. And I was wondering if I

745
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 9: think maybe body or someone could mythbust a little bit.

746
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 5: Yeah. So, I mean, listen, the thing about bitcoin is

747
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 5: it all happens on a ledger. Okay, so, and the

748
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 5: ledger is easily accessible to anyone online. You can go

749
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,800
Speaker 5: look at the bitcoin blockchain, okay, and that's the ledger,

750
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,960
Speaker 5: so it says basically you have an address, okay, and

751
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 5: the address is like twenty four to thirty two alphanumeric

752
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 5: numbers and characters. Okay. So like say Stephanie's address is

753
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 5: one two three four. Let's just make it simple, right.

754
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,120
Speaker 5: If I know that Stephanie's addresses one two three four,

755
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 5: then I can look at how much bitcoin she has.

756
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 5: But I don't know that Stephanie's addresses one two three four,

757
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 5: And nobody knows that Stephanie's addresses one two three four.

758
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 5: The only time it's now if she transfers it to

759
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 5: Courtney at five six seven eight, I can see that

760
00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 5: one two three four transferred three bitcoin to five six

761
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 5: seven eight. So that's all very transparent. However, I don't

762
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 5: know who owns those addresses, okay. So yes, you can

763
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 5: certainly trace bitcoin on the blockchain, but you don't know

764
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 5: who owns those addresses. But there's a choke hold, and

765
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 5: that is when you try to cash out. When you

766
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 5: sign up for these accounts and you have to link

767
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 5: your banking information and whatnot, you have to perform a

768
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 5: KYC and that's a know your customer and you have

769
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 5: to fill out paperwork when your name, your address ID information.

770
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 5: That's when law enforcement can really kind of you know,

771
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 5: trace who owns that wallet, right.

772
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 2: Have some oversight over this?

773
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 5: Not really no. Now you can do like analysis on addresses,

774
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,440
Speaker 5: because if you know, Stephanie bought you know, this item

775
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,800
Speaker 5: and she paid for it with bitcoin, you can probably

776
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 5: look through the blockchain and find those transactions and be

777
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 5: able to single out that transaction and go, oh, that

778
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 5: must be Stephanie. But if you are holding somebody hostage

779
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 5: and demanding ransom and bitcoin and whatnot, I really don't

780
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 5: know that you were going to be touching it for

781
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 5: a very long time, or you're going to be moving

782
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 5: it through the network and distributing a little bit here,

783
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 5: a little bit there, a little bit you know what

784
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 5: I mean. But if they pay in bitcoin, right, law

785
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 5: enforcement is going to be looking at that address for

786
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 5: a very long time and analyzing every single transaction it makes.

787
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,320
Speaker 2: I would possibly deliver sweet Nancy Guthrie. I've seen the movie.

788
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: I know how it works. In like the Hearst the

789
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 2: Patty Hurst case. I've right studied all of the so

790
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 2: and you know, we've all seen the movies the hostage

791
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 2: and negotiation, which is not gonna fly out of the sky.

792
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:11,879
Speaker 2: They're gonna someone's gonna drive Nancy guffries, uh someplace, there's

793
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 2: a gas are there, lndfolded and they're gonna all run

794
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: away and drive off into the sunset. And I don't

795
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: think it happens that way. It feels insane, And if

796
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 2: this is how it happens, I feel so nerve wracked

797
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:28,760
Speaker 2: by that as well. How is it possible she amount

798
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 2: of coverage this case is getting this case, we haven't

799
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 2: found her.

800
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 5: There's so many things with this case that we know

801
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 5: about that I just can't get over. And I just

802
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 5: can't get over the church thing. We learned initially that

803
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 5: she didn't show up for church, and that always goes

804
00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,600
Speaker 5: to church, and she always goes to church. And we

805
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 5: also learned that she could she wasn't really mobile, and

806
00:44:49,719 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 5: then we learned that she took an uber, so she's

807
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 5: clearly not driving right. So somebody went to go pick

808
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 5: her up for church and didn't notice all the blo

809
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 5: would you know at the at.

810
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 2: The door step.

811
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,960
Speaker 5: It's crazy to me. That's number one and number two

812
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 5: she actually never went to church. She only went online

813
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 5: and there's no attendants being done online. Okay, we know

814
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,440
Speaker 5: that will be true.

815
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 2: My mom's very involved. Like if she didn't show up

816
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 2: at church in person for any extended time, people would

817
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: call on her. Maybe she had church after you know.

818
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 5: Sometimes he said that she hadn't attended church in person

819
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 5: since COVID What right?

820
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 4: Oh?

821
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,479
Speaker 5: Right? So how did they know she was missing? And listen,

822
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 5: they might have just been calling her and she wasn't answering,

823
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 5: and that's why we had plans.

824
00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: At church after. Yeah, and also to me, but if

825
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 2: she couldn't really walk, wouldn't it seem strange to not walk?

826
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 2: I mean again, I'm not this is not blaming anybody.

827
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:51,799
Speaker 2: I'm just talking out loud. So we could never do

828
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 2: this in our own lives. If you're walking, like I

829
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 2: think of my own mother, my beloved mother, who's very mobile,

830
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,479
Speaker 2: thank god, but she would go to church. But if

831
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 2: she was not so mobile, I would probably walk her

832
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 2: to the door. But you know, sometimes you have groceries

833
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 2: or you're in a rush. Maybe she walks through the door.

834
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:09,320
Speaker 2: I don't know. Something about this seems weird.

835
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 6: Everything about this seems weird. It's so unusual. But listen,

836
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,760
Speaker 6: stick around because coming up at the top of the hour,

837
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 6: we have our trial watch. Jury selection is beginning in

838
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,800
Speaker 6: the Corey Richand's case. She's the woman accused of poisoning

839
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 6: her husband. And then there is explosive testimony to talk

840
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 6: about in the Alexander Brothers sex trafficking trial. Keep it

841
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:39,640
Speaker 6: here True Crimes Tonight.

842
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

843
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,000
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker. I'm here

844
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: with Courtney Armstrong and Body. Move in and if you

845
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 2: want to jump in and leave us a talk back,

846
00:46:55,680 --> 00:47:00,240
Speaker 2: we really love receiving them. So your opinions are herd

847
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: and they matter, and we want to hear as many

848
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 2: of them as possible. If you've missed any of the show,

849
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,840
Speaker 2: no worries, you could always catch us after as a podcast.

850
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 2: So body another wild case, you know, listen, I had

851
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 2: read that there is an actual uptick in in deaths

852
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 2: by people using fentanyl, cyanide things like you know, eye drops.

853
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: It's women. There's an uptaken women taking the lives of

854
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:34,320
Speaker 2: men by using illicit drugs that are maybe not detectible

855
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 2: in an initial drug Panel. When I think that.

856
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 5: Tracks, I think that tracks with how you know, we

857
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 5: we've been learning that, you know, women are poisoners, isn't

858
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 5: that isn't that interesting? I think Joseph has talked about

859
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 5: that quite a bit. But this one, Yeah, Cory Richins,

860
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 5: that's the case. It's I mean this, this is a

861
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 5: wild case. The jury selection it's slated to begin this

862
00:47:58,120 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 5: week for the murder trial of Corey Richins. She's the

863
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 5: thirty five year old out of Utah. She's a real

864
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 5: estate agent, and she's been charged with the murder of

865
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 5: her husband, Eric Richins, back in twenty twenty two. He

866
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 5: died from a fentanyl overdose of five times the lethal

867
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 5: dose in March of twenty twenty five times, which really

868
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 5: is only like a couple grains of salt, Like, it's

869
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:29,280
Speaker 5: a very small amount. Her case, you know, it's attracted

870
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 5: a lot of attention nationwide due to the unusual circumstances

871
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 5: surrounding his death, her financial troubles, the alleged witness tampering,

872
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:42,320
Speaker 5: and this publication of a children's book that she wrote

873
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,920
Speaker 5: on grief following the death of her husband.

874
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: We have to pause right there? Can we pause for

875
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,800
Speaker 2: one second, just for one brief second. So I remember

876
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 2: when this happened and we were all enraged. Allegedly if

877
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 2: this woman wrote a book about to share with her

878
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,680
Speaker 2: young children and she was the reason for her husband's death,

879
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: that is so demented and sick. Like that's another version

880
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 2: of Munchausen's like this is like me. That is so

881
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 2: messy in a way.

882
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 5: I added public trials, right, So she faces like a

883
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 5: massive wide range of charges and you know, including aggravated murder,

884
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 5: attempted murder, forgery, as well as charges related to poisoning

885
00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 5: and insurance fraud because she she did a bunch of

886
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 5: fraud trying to get money out of the estate, out

887
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:37,960
Speaker 5: of his bank account, all kinds of things. So on

888
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 5: February tewod a judge acute or denied the accused of

889
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 5: Corey Richins her second request to move the murder trial

890
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,200
Speaker 5: to Salt Lake County. Despite attempts by the defense to

891
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 5: argue that the jury pool has been tainted by the

892
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:59,280
Speaker 5: national media coverage, prosecutors have indicated eight hundred and thirty

893
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 5: out of fifteen hundred potential jurors have indicated there's been

894
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 5: no prior knowledge of this case, making a fair trial

895
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,919
Speaker 5: possible in Summit County. And you know, we were talking

896
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,760
Speaker 5: before the show, and if you're just like a regular

897
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 5: like a soccer mom, right, you probably have never heard

898
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 5: of this case. But if you're like us, yeah, of course,

899
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 5: but like, this isn't like the big case in the media,

900
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 5: Like I think that the defend it's not.

901
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 2: If you're in a smaller town and this happens in

902
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,959
Speaker 2: your maybe town, this is like not such a small

903
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:39,359
Speaker 2: town either, But if it's happened in your backyard, it's

904
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: probably getting all local attention as well.

905
00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 5: So you know, well, they're moving forward. Jury selection is

906
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 5: scheduled to begin just in a couple of days February tenth,

907
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 5: good Tuesday. It's going to be a Thay, and it's

908
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 5: going to last for six days, and the trial officially

909
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,720
Speaker 5: begins at the end of the month, on the twenty third.

910
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:01,919
Speaker 5: It's expected to last last a couple of weeks, almost

911
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:03,719
Speaker 5: a month, well actually a little bit over a month.

912
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 5: February is a short month, so I was getting messed up.

913
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 5: The trial is expected to conclude on March twenty seventh.

914
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 5: So the charges also include an attempted murder account for

915
00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:18,240
Speaker 5: a legendly poisoning him prior. You know, he died in March,

916
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 5: but she tried it prior to March, in February, weeks

917
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 5: before the fatal overdose. Like it's almost like she was experimenting.

918
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 6: She was on Valentine's Days up.

919
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,399
Speaker 2: I want to do a deep dive on this case,

920
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,000
Speaker 2: like this is not barely.

921
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 5: We could do another one. I could because we really

922
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 5: should talk about the letter in detail. I would love

923
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 5: to do book.

924
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: Like you know how hard it is to write a

925
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: book and get it published.

926
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 5: She wrote this crazy letter from prison, and this is

927
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 5: like where the witness tampering comes in, and we I

928
00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 5: would love to unpack that. Okay, yeah, we can one

929
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 5: hundred percent do that. Maybe it would be good to

930
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 5: do before the trial begins. So let's put that on

931
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 5: the on the slate. She know she faced a lot of,

932
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 5: you know, financial troubles. She was taking nearly five hundred

933
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,279
Speaker 5: thousand dollars from her husband's accounts between twenty nineteen and

934
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 5: twenty twenty, five hundred thousand dollars in it like a year,

935
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:15,839
Speaker 5: like who, Like.

936
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: It's okay, so she's maybe a drug addict. Is she's

937
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: buying weapons from foreign governments, like what do you do

938
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 2: with five hundred thousand dollars?

939
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:23,160
Speaker 4: Right?

940
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 2: Well, she's also an issue yamling.

941
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 5: She's also accused of purchasing ventanyl multiple times in early

942
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 5: twenty twenty two from a friend for around nine hundred

943
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 5: dollars per purchase, referring it to it as the Michael

944
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,920
Speaker 5: Jackson stuff. So that letter, this letter in September of

945
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 5: twenty twenty three, It was allegedly written by Corey Richins,

946
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 5: which prosecutors claim was a guide for her family members

947
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 5: on how to lie to the authorities and cover up

948
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 5: her involvement in her husband's death. So we I definitely

949
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 5: want to do like a little.

950
00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: Script she like sent her a family a.

951
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 5: Little coded it was all coded like it's called the

952
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 5: walk the Dog letter. It's crazy. Separately, just weeks after

953
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 5: Eric Richins's death, Corey Richins published this children's picture book

954
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,920
Speaker 5: called Are You with Me, and it's described as a

955
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 5: heartwarming and reassuring book that gently guides children through the

956
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 5: difficult experience of losing a loved one.

957
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 2: This is it is so diabolical.

958
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, of manipulation.

959
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 5: We're going to definitely be covering this case because it's

960
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 5: something that I won't let go of. I'll definitely be

961
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,000
Speaker 5: covering that this is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're

962
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 5: talking true crime all the time. I just gave it

963
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,840
Speaker 5: Corey Richins update. But Courtney, what's going on with the

964
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 5: Alexander brothers.

965
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:51,920
Speaker 6: Okay, So we're going to give you the overview, and

966
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,280
Speaker 6: I am also going to give you a trigger warning

967
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 6: for the next ten minutes or so that we will

968
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:01,960
Speaker 6: be talking about this case because it has some graphic

969
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:03,800
Speaker 6: details about sexual assault.

970
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 4: So, the second.

971
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 6: Week of the federal sex trafficking trial of these Alexander brothers,

972
00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 6: it's finished and it's starting the third week tomorrow. We've

973
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 6: heard from more than ten witnesses, and that includes alleged

974
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 6: victims who testified last week. They provided detailed accounts that

975
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:28,280
Speaker 6: we're harrowing of alleged drugging, of sexual assault that happened

976
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:31,600
Speaker 6: at the Hamptons as well as on a party cruise.

977
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 6: These Alexander brothers are Orin, Alan and Tal Alexander, and

978
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,719
Speaker 6: all of them are facing federal charges for sex trafficking

979
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 6: for aggravated sexual abuse. They're accused of coercing women to

980
00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 6: travel and then drugging and raping them and all three

981
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 6: brothers have pleaded not guilty and they have been held

982
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 6: at the Federal Manhattan What is it MDX where Luigimanngio

983
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:04,520
Speaker 6: and allegedly the president of Venezuela is excuse me MDC.

984
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:11,799
Speaker 6: So that's the backdrop. And last week just an overview

985
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 6: the prosecute, the prosecutors introduced the emails and texts as

986
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 6: well as social media messages and in these the Alexander

987
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 6: brothers and their friends, because none of this appeared to

988
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 6: be secret, and a lot of it had to do

989
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:31,359
Speaker 6: with bragging, is what's also coming out in court. This

990
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 6: group discussed acquiring MDMA which is ecstasy, as well as

991
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 6: ambient and GHB, which is a date rape drug, and

992
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 6: this was in order to drug women before trips.

993
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 4: Oh man.

994
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:49,720
Speaker 6: And then here's an example that one of the brothers,

995
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,959
Speaker 6: he wrote, are we booking flights?

996
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: First?

997
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 4: Three on the left, referring to three women his brother

998
00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:59,359
Speaker 4: what's up?

999
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm like wanting to pull my earrings off

1000
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 2: right now and get into a fistfight.

1001
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:11,440
Speaker 6: I know, and his brother Alaon replied, we can split

1002
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:14,720
Speaker 6: and try to orgy them out, and then the third

1003
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:18,840
Speaker 6: brother chimed in that he agreed and this and I

1004
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 6: know this is not all in the federal trial that's

1005
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 6: currently happening, but these Alexander brothers have details of similar

1006
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 6: accusations dating all the way back into high school.

1007
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 2: So what we've had odds? What are the odds that

1008
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:39,040
Speaker 2: you have three boys? So this is also I want

1009
00:56:39,040 --> 00:56:42,560
Speaker 2: to say, and maybe I'm mistaken, rare for three brothers

1010
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 2: to be orgying out girls after drugging them. You know,

1011
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,759
Speaker 2: MDMA is like you feel good, it's ecstasy, right, EHB

1012
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,399
Speaker 2: is a liquid. That liquid is often described in law

1013
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 2: enforcement as like one of the roof of drugs. Right,

1014
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,280
Speaker 2: it's a date ray drug. Add it to a drink

1015
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:03,840
Speaker 2: by the way, you might taste it, but by the

1016
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,799
Speaker 2: time you taste it, it's already in your system and

1017
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 2: you're going to drop and you'll see that happen and

1018
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 2: it's very serious. They'll come back okay, but it's very serious,

1019
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 2: Like you could wake up and not have any memory

1020
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: whatsoever of what had happened. So if these guys are

1021
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 2: drugging groups of girls and having sex with them and

1022
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 2: then they're waking up with no memory of it, just

1023
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 2: maybe something in their soul. Again, what planet are we

1024
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: on that. And by the way, what are the odds

1025
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 2: that you can have three sons that are all capable

1026
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 2: of that?

1027
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, it has to be in their EA. I don't

1028
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 5: think this is something in their DNA.

1029
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 2: This has to be I don't know. And I'm not

1030
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 2: mom shaming. I'm just so curious, Like this is like

1031
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 2: I'm a mom, she heard of And again we're seeing

1032
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 2: this at the wildest level, Like who's to say, Like

1033
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 2: these guys are totally calling the shots. These three girls

1034
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 2: are getting on a private plane and they're going to

1035
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: go have a great time in their minds.

1036
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 4: And it's what I mean.

1037
00:58:01,800 --> 00:58:05,640
Speaker 6: I think it is such an illustration of wealth of

1038
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 6: privilege that can really just tip over to they have

1039
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 6: a total disregard. It appears for what's being presented in

1040
00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 6: trial of these women as human beings.

1041
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:20,120
Speaker 2: They're treating them like trash.

1042
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 5: If they're convicted, they need to be studied. If they're convicted,

1043
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 5: they need to be studied, and how they were brought up,

1044
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 5: every detail of their life needs to be documented for

1045
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 5: future what not to do.

1046
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,160
Speaker 2: Okay, the parents are like upstanding citizens too, So mom

1047
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,400
Speaker 2: and dad were away a lot. If I'm not mistaken,

1048
00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 2: and that might be, but like they were, they're pretty

1049
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 2: high profile and they had a lot of access to money.

1050
00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,560
Speaker 2: So again, money doesn't certainly. I mean, what we're learning

1051
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:49,680
Speaker 2: now is like if the more money you have, the

1052
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,000
Speaker 2: more depraved you become. It seems, I know, is not

1053
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 2: the case. That can't be always the case.

1054
00:58:56,520 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, So just briefly, because I do think it's important

1055
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 6: these victims are being so brave and coming forth and

1056
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 6: being examined on cross by the defense as well. So

1057
00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 6: one victim, she goes by the pseudonym Beyla Coval So

1058
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:17,000
Speaker 6: she testified to something that happened in the Hamptons ten

1059
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 6: years ago, back in twenty sixteen. Allegedly, the witness was

1060
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 6: drugged and raped by Orrin Alexander while in the Hamptons

1061
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 6: with her friend Allison. She testified that the Alexander brothers

1062
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 6: paid for her and her friend's flights and accommodations, and

1063
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 6: the defense Tina Gara Goes, challenged inconsistencies in literally what

1064
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 6: she was wearing ten years ago and the timeline of events,

1065
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 6: and this this witness stood strong and she responded, my

1066
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 6: truth never changed.

1067
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 4: I was telling the truth the entire time. It's really

1068
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 4: terrible stuff.

1069
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 6: And then there was another victim who took the stand,

1070
00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 6: Ronda Stone, also a pseudonym, and she she testified about

1071
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 6: something that happened on a party cruise all the way

1072
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 6: back in twenty twelve. So her allegation is that she

1073
01:00:07,560 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 6: was drugged and sexually assaulted by both or In an

1074
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 6: Alan Alexander on this cruise, and she recalled in vivid

1075
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:18,439
Speaker 6: detail she woke up naked, she was on a bed,

1076
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 6: one twin was on top of her, she was having

1077
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:23,120
Speaker 6: memory lapses.

1078
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,120
Speaker 4: And again this happened all the way.

1079
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 6: In twenty twelve, and she didn't tell anyone at the time,

1080
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:35,560
Speaker 6: but disclosed the assault after the Alexander brothers were arrested

1081
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:39,840
Speaker 6: in December twenty twenty four. Which we've spoken about, one

1082
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 6: person comes forth and that person is often the watershed

1083
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 6: moment to break down the doors for others.

1084
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:50,120
Speaker 5: It's these are powerful men.

1085
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 2: Yeas are like a track didn't.

1086
01:00:54,400 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 5: Die, she wasn't hunted down, she'd you know what I mean.

1087
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 5: These are the things that other victims are seen and

1088
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 5: they're like, Okay, well if she can do it, I

1089
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 5: can too. She gave me strength to do so.

1090
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:10,720
Speaker 2: But guys that could get girls on their own too.

1091
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 2: That's what's even more within me. I know, that's what

1092
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:17,200
Speaker 2: I'm want the power to control exactly like they could

1093
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 2: just they don't have to be predators. They could be actual,

1094
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 2: real people with actual money in their pockets to make

1095
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 2: the world better and to treat women with respect and

1096
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:28,440
Speaker 2: have happy, healthy lives. But in instead, they're choosing sick behavior.

1097
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 2: And I guess that's just the name of the game.

1098
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:31,080
Speaker 2: This is the.

1099
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:36,760
Speaker 6: Playbook, and so we will continue following this federal trial.

1100
01:01:37,480 --> 01:01:42,880
Speaker 6: It involves a twelve count indictment and this covers six

1101
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 6: adult victims and two minors, and charges include sex trafficking, conspiracy,

1102
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,960
Speaker 6: and inducement to travel for unlawful sexual activity.

1103
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 4: So we'll see how this plays out.

1104
01:01:56,440 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 6: Of course, they've all three have pleaded not guilty, and

1105
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:02,760
Speaker 6: they face life in prison if convicted, and if they

1106
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:05,480
Speaker 6: are convicted, life in prison is too short.

1107
01:02:07,040 --> 01:02:09,560
Speaker 2: This is the problem. The system's rigged. We're seeing this

1108
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 2: real time. Well.

1109
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 5: Coming up next, a roadbox connection turns dangerous. Surprise, surprise,

1110
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,920
Speaker 5: two young sisters have been taken. But guess what they

1111
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 5: were found ours in a team suspect has now been

1112
01:02:20,800 --> 01:02:22,440
Speaker 5: charged to keep it right here at your crime tonight.

1113
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,280
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1114
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm so glad that we

1115
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 2: get to be here tonight. By the way, I'm Stephanie

1116
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 2: Leidecker here with Courtney Armstrong and Body move in, and

1117
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,960
Speaker 2: of course we have the whole crew full house, because

1118
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 2: these are like important topics that we get to talk

1119
01:02:48,960 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 2: about and it's important that we do uncomfortable as they are.

1120
01:02:53,280 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 2: You know, listen, we're hitting all the greats tonight. Lots

1121
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 2: of lots of triggering stuff, so you know, listen with care,

1122
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 2: but again, feel free to share because this Roadblox conversation.

1123
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:06,440
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we did the podcast in cells. Courtney

1124
01:03:06,520 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 2: such a great job, Body featured, We're all featured. It

1125
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,480
Speaker 2: was such an eye opener, right, and we were talking

1126
01:03:12,520 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 2: about roadblocks. By the way, we've all lived in the

1127
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 2: land of roadblocks. We were talking about it so far

1128
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 2: back ago, like, well, that can't really be Oh no, no,

1129
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,919
Speaker 2: it's actually very very very very real and dangerous and

1130
01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 2: this really miraculous close call just happened and being reported about. Yeah,

1131
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 2: we're to start with this one.

1132
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,840
Speaker 5: Well, so two young sisters aged they're twelve and fourteen.

1133
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 5: They were found safe after authority say they were abducted

1134
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 5: by a nineteen year old man they had been communicating

1135
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:51,240
Speaker 5: with online through roadblocks and snapchot, Like, this is no surprise. Now.

1136
01:03:51,480 --> 01:03:53,240
Speaker 5: I feel like we have a case every night that

1137
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 5: we talk about every single day, right, and I feel

1138
01:03:58,040 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 5: like we're picking on roadblocks at this point. It's just

1139
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:05,400
Speaker 5: that's not what's happening. This is just what's going on, right. So,

1140
01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:09,520
Speaker 5: the teens were reported missing in Florida out of Martin

1141
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:14,640
Speaker 5: County January thirty first, and luckily they were only gone

1142
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 5: for a few hours. They were located in Georgia inside

1143
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:22,840
Speaker 5: the suspect's vehicle. Law enforcement says that, you know, this

1144
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:26,800
Speaker 5: case is really highlighting all these ongoing concerns that all

1145
01:04:26,840 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 5: of us have about online communications between adults and miners.

1146
01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 5: The suspect has been arrested, and you know, the investigation

1147
01:04:36,520 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 5: is continuing, with the FBI even getting involved because this

1148
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 5: is kidnapping, so of course, and they went across state line,

1149
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 5: so of course the FBI is going to be involved.

1150
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:52,120
Speaker 5: They were reported missing Saturday, January thirty first, after leaving

1151
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 5: their home in Indian Town, Florida. Hours later, Georgia Highway

1152
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 5: Patrol located the teens safe inside of the driven by

1153
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 5: Sir may La Say, we're going to call him, say

1154
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:10,160
Speaker 5: from this point forward. And he's nineteen and he's out

1155
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:14,240
Speaker 5: of Omaha, Nebraska. So they there's the authorities are saying

1156
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 5: he drove nearly twenty four hours straight.

1157
01:05:18,000 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 2: Wow.

1158
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 5: Grow up.

1159
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 2: After the girls.

1160
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 5: Left home, you know, family members immediately notified deputies and

1161
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 5: identified a potential suspect through the communication that they have

1162
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:33,800
Speaker 5: been having with this guy for months. So thankfully the face.

1163
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 5: I don't know if the family knew that they were

1164
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,200
Speaker 5: communicating with this guy through problocks, or or if they

1165
01:05:40,280 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 5: just happen to leave their phones behind.

1166
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 2: Thank goodness, they were gotten up on them. They were

1167
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 2: like they were on it.

1168
01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 5: They were on it, thank god.

1169
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:48,280
Speaker 7: Yoh.

1170
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,640
Speaker 5: So, now here's the scary part. They've been they've been

1171
01:05:52,680 --> 01:05:55,080
Speaker 5: talking to this guy all the way back to summer

1172
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:56,840
Speaker 5: of twenty twenty five.

1173
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 2: Oh wow, that's the true. It's all this slow burned stuff.

1174
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,600
Speaker 2: It doesn't happen, just like some creep that just shows up,

1175
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:08,040
Speaker 2: but can be creepy. They groom.

1176
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 8: Since recently, roadblocks had incorporated some safety measures to make

1177
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:15,560
Speaker 8: sure that you were an adult, Like, didn't that happen

1178
01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 8: at w.

1179
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 5: It's not effective estimate what your ages and listen, every

1180
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 5: new thing that they come out with, kids are going

1181
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 5: to find a way around it.

1182
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:30,560
Speaker 2: Not to mention every can I just stop there for

1183
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,120
Speaker 2: one quick second too? Every even just the idea that

1184
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,520
Speaker 2: Roadblox is taking an image of your child's face, That

1185
01:06:36,720 --> 01:06:39,320
Speaker 2: alone is petrifying to me, because how do we know

1186
01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 2: that Roadblocks isn't selling that information? And now they have

1187
01:06:42,680 --> 01:06:45,800
Speaker 2: scans of our children's faces. We're just seeing this. I

1188
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,520
Speaker 2: won't get diverted. But the Epstein Files, the scariest thing

1189
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:51,400
Speaker 2: is the school pictures. The people that remember, you have

1190
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 2: to take a school picture every day of your whole life.

1191
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:57,200
Speaker 2: Epstein Files. Yeah, we'll get to that this week. But

1192
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,760
Speaker 2: the Roadblocks thing is nothing to shake a stick at.

1193
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 2: Very serious, it's.

1194
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 5: Not so the sheriff. The sheriff, his name is John

1195
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:09,880
Speaker 5: Buden Seek Bud and seek I think that's right. He

1196
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 5: stated that while it appeared that the girls left on

1197
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 5: their own, like they went willing willingly with this guy,

1198
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:19,000
Speaker 5: their ages led authorities to treat the situation as an abduction.

1199
01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 5: And let me tell you something, when I want When

1200
01:07:22,440 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 5: I read this today, I was like, what do you

1201
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 5: mean because of their ages it led you to believe

1202
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 5: it was an ABC. Of course, it's an abduction. Years old,

1203
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 5: they can't consent to going with an adult.

1204
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but of course, like this is a slippery slope.

1205
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, can you imagine? Oh well, thanks that you

1206
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:42,960
Speaker 2: had to like, okay, so luckily that's not that's an abduction.

1207
01:07:44,880 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 4: How was that?

1208
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 5: Like I'm hoping it was taken like out of context

1209
01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 5: or something just because of your statement.

1210
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 6: I actually don't think this is a slippery slope. I mean,

1211
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 6: if you are twelve and fourteen, you do not have

1212
01:07:55,840 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 6: legal capacity to consent.

1213
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 2: Of course, just like Nancy du three, she's being Nancy gruffries,

1214
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:04,800
Speaker 2: you know, Savannah's mother. It's an abduction because the fear

1215
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:08,600
Speaker 2: is it's against will, right, So that's the difference. Of course,

1216
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 2: it's twelve years old. They don't have the capacity to

1217
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,280
Speaker 2: make free will decisions.

1218
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,800
Speaker 5: Right. So the sheriff described the case as sobering, but

1219
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:19,320
Speaker 5: expressed relief that the teens were recovered safely, and he

1220
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 5: said something I found important and important to share. Okay,

1221
01:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,599
Speaker 5: So here's what he said. We talk regularly about the

1222
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,120
Speaker 5: importance of parents and family members being vigilant about grooming

1223
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,559
Speaker 5: and social media platforms and the impact it has on kids,

1224
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,560
Speaker 5: And in this case, I think we prevented something disastrous.

1225
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 5: Adding that he did not know what the sussect plan

1226
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,080
Speaker 5: to do, and I thought it was so important that

1227
01:08:43,120 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 5: he say that the grooming on social media and whatnot.

1228
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 5: I thought he did a really good job at that statement.

1229
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 5: And I really hope as many parents see it as

1230
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 5: possible and take it seriously.

1231
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 4: Because it does.

1232
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:59,759
Speaker 6: It starts out so innocuous or flat scheme.

1233
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, you're jump. I need to know how do

1234
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:09,120
Speaker 5: you do that? Double jump? I always fall. I'll help you.

1235
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 5: You're so good at this game. You're so smart. That's

1236
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:12,719
Speaker 5: how it starts.

1237
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:13,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, let me send you.

1238
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 6: If I'm not confusing this with one of the plethora

1239
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,800
Speaker 6: of roadblocks cases we've been following, I believe this guy

1240
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:23,360
Speaker 6: was even sending them food.

1241
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:24,920
Speaker 5: I just wasn't aware of it.

1242
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:27,600
Speaker 6: But just the grooming is it's just it really it

1243
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,400
Speaker 6: seeps in trust that these predators build.

1244
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 8: Do they have chat rooms that are if you know,

1245
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 8: maybe this or maybe this is an idea that they

1246
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:39,120
Speaker 8: could work with. Could there be chat rooms that are

1247
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:42,519
Speaker 8: just for people below eighteen, and if you're a then.

1248
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:45,320
Speaker 5: People pretend to be sixteen and go in there and

1249
01:09:45,360 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 5: they're only eighty six years old.

1250
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:50,000
Speaker 2: They're like cat fishing basically. So yeah, you think you're

1251
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 2: talking to a nine year old and it's some you know, weird.

1252
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 8: But if you have to show like a girl like

1253
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 8: an ID to sign up for it, like you know,

1254
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:01,439
Speaker 8: but you're right, yeah, yeah.

1255
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 6: Children, Children don't have ideas first of all, largely, and

1256
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 6: if you have an older brother or a picture of

1257
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,360
Speaker 6: a person who's.

1258
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:12,599
Speaker 4: At whatever age you want to be, you can do that.

1259
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 6: What they do, what Rodbox does have is you can

1260
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,400
Speaker 6: have it own private server where only a certain group

1261
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:27,880
Speaker 6: of people can play together and no one else like

1262
01:10:27,920 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 6: your cousins.

1263
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 5: Like you want to play with your face.

1264
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 6: Sat a group and then there's no one else allowed

1265
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 6: onto this server.

1266
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:39,760
Speaker 8: Gotcha? But from I've even heard us, I think we've

1267
01:10:39,760 --> 01:10:42,360
Speaker 8: talked about this, or you have no firsthand. Kids find

1268
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 8: a way around outside of that group, or they'll go

1269
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 8: to a friend's and so so they figure out ways

1270
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:49,439
Speaker 8: around it. Okay, I'm still always trying to bring some

1271
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,320
Speaker 8: a way to resolve it, and it seems like of

1272
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:54,120
Speaker 8: course I don't work for them, so they.

1273
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 2: Kind of the advice that we were given to is

1274
01:10:56,640 --> 01:10:59,040
Speaker 2: like you have to assume that kids, you have to

1275
01:10:59,040 --> 01:11:01,679
Speaker 2: almost like talk to them. I'm not dueling at advice

1276
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:03,439
Speaker 2: right now. This is just a advice that we were

1277
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:05,880
Speaker 2: given almost speaking to them as if it's happening, like

1278
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 2: the language like having a script. Hey, you know, like

1279
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 2: what are they supposed to say in these situations like

1280
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 2: not if it happens, like you have to almost assume

1281
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 2: that it's going.

1282
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 5: It's going to worry. So you know, this incident incident

1283
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 5: is again underscoring concerns surrounding all these online gaming and

1284
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 5: social media platforms, and it's used to build relationships with miners.

1285
01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 5: I mean, this is a predator's paradise go into these

1286
01:11:32,280 --> 01:11:37,640
Speaker 5: online platforms. The investigation, of course, is going to remain ongoing.

1287
01:11:38,080 --> 01:11:41,120
Speaker 5: Hopefully we'll get some information from the FBI and what

1288
01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:42,839
Speaker 5: this guy had up his sleeve.

1289
01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,640
Speaker 6: Wow, oh man, if you're just joining us, this is

1290
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 6: true crime tonight, and we are talking about a robox

1291
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 6: case where two young girls twelve and fourteen were abducted

1292
01:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,120
Speaker 6: and thankfully found by authorities. We love to hear for

1293
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:02,759
Speaker 6: you always so you can always leave us at talkback

1294
01:12:03,120 --> 01:12:03,880
Speaker 6: when you're listening.

1295
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:05,280
Speaker 4: Just go to the iHeartRadio app.

1296
01:12:05,280 --> 01:12:07,879
Speaker 6: You click on the microphone icon in the top right corner,

1297
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 6: leave a little voicemail, and you are on the show.

1298
01:12:12,320 --> 01:12:16,680
Speaker 6: And why don't we talk about some sort of safety information?

1299
01:12:16,840 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, I love that. That's great.

1300
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 5: I think that's a really good idea.

1301
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 9: You know.

1302
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,639
Speaker 5: So, law enforcement agencies are warning that Grooman often begins

1303
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 5: with this casual conversation, just like we were, mentioning trust

1304
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:33,320
Speaker 5: building and shared interest before escalating to request to meet offline,

1305
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 5: which is the playbook. Right, you know again, gosh, you

1306
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 5: really play this game really good. And I'll send you

1307
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 5: some rollblocks if you teach me how to double jump

1308
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:48,200
Speaker 5: or whatever. Right, and oh okay, so oh that's my

1309
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,080
Speaker 5: friend Steve. Next time you see that person, Oh, that's

1310
01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 5: my friend he. You know, I taught him how to

1311
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,280
Speaker 5: double jump, you know. And they that's how the trust begins.

1312
01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 5: He's nice to you, I'm saying he, but it could

1313
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 5: be femail to They're nice to you, They compliment you,

1314
01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:08,160
Speaker 5: They feed your ego as a little kid. They know

1315
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 5: what so easy to do, and you're not going to

1316
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:16,559
Speaker 5: recognize those red flags because those interactions they feel really

1317
01:13:16,600 --> 01:13:21,120
Speaker 5: harmless at first, and in many cases they might be right.

1318
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 5: Somebody might really want to know how to double jump,

1319
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 5: but do you really want to take that chance? Right anyway.

1320
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 5: Common safety recommendations include avoiding sharing personal details like your name,

1321
01:13:34,600 --> 01:13:39,520
Speaker 5: maybe the color of your hair, where you live, information

1322
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:44,559
Speaker 5: about your parents, you know, any contact information that they

1323
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,759
Speaker 5: might have to get a hold of you off of line,

1324
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 5: so they can't find the snapchat account that you know,

1325
01:13:50,600 --> 01:13:52,880
Speaker 5: maybe your parents that you have, that kind of stuff.

1326
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:58,840
Speaker 5: Parents and guardians are encouraged to monitor apps, use parental controls,

1327
01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:03,160
Speaker 5: and again discuss those risks openly with children. To your point,

1328
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:05,879
Speaker 5: stuff right, discuss this openly.

1329
01:14:06,200 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 2: It's such a hard thing though, because you know, we've

1330
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,759
Speaker 2: heard so many horror stories. You don't want to scare

1331
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:13,120
Speaker 2: your kids and at the same time, especially little ones.

1332
01:14:13,200 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 2: You know, we were just talking about this, like was

1333
01:14:15,240 --> 01:14:17,640
Speaker 2: a first person story we were talking about with a

1334
01:14:18,240 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 2: with even just somebody who works with us. That was like, look,

1335
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:23,759
Speaker 2: you know, on the one hand, we're teaching our kids

1336
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:28,680
Speaker 2: to be respectful to adults and to share and you

1337
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:32,000
Speaker 2: know all of these you know, authority and you know,

1338
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 2: as opposed to them just going into a restaurant and saying,

1339
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:38,040
Speaker 2: you know, f off to the waiter. We're like telling them,

1340
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:41,080
Speaker 2: make sure you're careful and you know, almost like don't

1341
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 2: trust your guys and men in key situations where someone

1342
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:48,679
Speaker 2: who's very clever the balance is actually coming in to

1343
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 2: target your kid. You know, like how do they know

1344
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 2: that that's the time you're supposed to say f off?

1345
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:57,519
Speaker 2: Like that's it's a tough it's not easy. You know,

1346
01:14:57,800 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 2: it's not easy.

1347
01:14:59,120 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 8: It's very you and like how confusing, Like it's so

1348
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:04,559
Speaker 8: weird that yeah, well we grew up in an era

1349
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:06,519
Speaker 8: where it was always like don't talk to strangers, but

1350
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,240
Speaker 8: this era it's almost like completely.

1351
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 2: Choice and you're trained you have to talk to strangers online.

1352
01:15:12,560 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 2: The whole all of school was taught this way. This

1353
01:15:16,240 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 2: is how kids socialized, period. The end, we can pretend

1354
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:22,320
Speaker 2: that like maybe there are a few and I know

1355
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:25,040
Speaker 2: there are a couple of incredible families and parents who

1356
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,880
Speaker 2: like somehow pull it off with nothing, no screens and

1357
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:33,280
Speaker 2: no social and like hats off. That is the but

1358
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:35,559
Speaker 2: I mean I don't know in my real world that.

1359
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 5: Seems like it's the very slope, right, So well, in

1360
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 5: this case too specifically specific to this case. So the

1361
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 5: girls had that Snapchat app, right, and they deleted the

1362
01:15:48,479 --> 01:15:51,679
Speaker 5: app before leaving the house, off the off their tablet,

1363
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 5: and I think they thought, Okay, that's enough. You know

1364
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:58,360
Speaker 5: they'll they'll never find us. But so if you were

1365
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 5: a parent, if you your child deletes the Snapchat app,

1366
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 5: you can still the investigators can recover that information. So Nope,

1367
01:16:06,400 --> 01:16:08,120
Speaker 5: don't give up hope right that.

1368
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:11,639
Speaker 2: We can't recover it, right, I.

1369
01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 5: Don't actually know if we could. I think actions I

1370
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:17,640
Speaker 5: think you can. I think you might be able to

1371
01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:21,120
Speaker 5: just log in as the account that you're looking for

1372
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,720
Speaker 5: and recover it that way. I'm not one hundred percent sure.

1373
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 5: Don't take my word on that, but I know law

1374
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:32,719
Speaker 5: enforcement can because those recovered messages showed this continuous thread

1375
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,040
Speaker 5: of communication between say, the suspect here and those two

1376
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:42,360
Speaker 5: little girls, including the talk of him driving all the

1377
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:43,720
Speaker 5: way to Florida to pick them up.

1378
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:47,479
Speaker 2: This guy, I mean, honestly, I was raised by brothers, right,

1379
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 2: and I was raised in an all boys house. My

1380
01:16:49,520 --> 01:16:52,320
Speaker 2: dad was the best. Like, this is the kind of guy. Listen,

1381
01:16:52,400 --> 01:16:55,440
Speaker 2: if this is true and you drove twenty four hours

1382
01:16:55,479 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 2: at nineteen years old. Straight, This guy to get my

1383
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 2: twelve and fourteen year old and you're gonna have to

1384
01:17:02,920 --> 01:17:05,559
Speaker 2: talk to go outside. You're gonna have to set outside

1385
01:17:05,560 --> 01:17:09,719
Speaker 2: and talk to Uncle Knuckles and cousin brother, cousin, cousin

1386
01:17:09,760 --> 01:17:13,160
Speaker 2: Bruises and uncle. I don't know, because like.

1387
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:17,760
Speaker 4: That's just I know, it's sick. It's sick.

1388
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:22,759
Speaker 6: I'm so grateful that these girls were found safely.

1389
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:24,080
Speaker 8: Right.

1390
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 5: So, and then another thing too. Apparently he took a

1391
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:32,120
Speaker 5: picture at some kind of gas station and like uploaded

1392
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:35,680
Speaker 5: it to social media. That helped pinpoint where he was.

1393
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 5: So the girl looked at the gas station, looked at

1394
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:42,160
Speaker 5: the street signs, looked at the foliage, looked at whatever

1395
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,400
Speaker 5: was around that gas station to go, oh, he's in

1396
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:47,560
Speaker 5: x ex City in Georgia.

1397
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 2: What was this clown thinking it was gonna happen.

1398
01:17:49,520 --> 01:17:52,759
Speaker 5: He's gonna take them and everyone than law enforcement.

1399
01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:59,040
Speaker 6: So well, we'll keep covering this case as it goes

1400
01:17:59,080 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 6: to trial, which I imagine it will. And listen, stick around.

1401
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:06,000
Speaker 6: We have a lot more to dig into. We have

1402
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,639
Speaker 6: more talkbacks, we have more dms. Keep it here True

1403
01:18:09,680 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 6: crime tonight. We are talking true crime all the time.

1404
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

1405
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Steph. I'm here with

1406
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:32,759
Speaker 2: the Courtney and Body and man, we've had a pretty

1407
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:34,920
Speaker 2: stack stack night. We want to get to some of

1408
01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:39,200
Speaker 2: our talkbacks and callers, and we've had some dms and

1409
01:18:39,400 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 2: all the things. Body, you wanted to share one first.

1410
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:46,000
Speaker 5: I did so. This is from Daniella. I was listening

1411
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:48,639
Speaker 5: to the podcast and the guest described how they were

1412
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:52,120
Speaker 5: groomed and how they went to the island and the

1413
01:18:52,120 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 5: predicament after having to do the massages, having their passport

1414
01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,559
Speaker 5: taken and trying to escape. And it got me thinking

1415
01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 5: back to twenty years ago when I was in my

1416
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,960
Speaker 5: early twenties, and I realized I would have been the

1417
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:09,640
Speaker 5: perfect victim. Back then, we didn't have the awareness that

1418
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 5: we do now, and getting invited some rich dude's island

1419
01:19:13,880 --> 01:19:17,880
Speaker 5: would have been a great opportunity for a party. My God,

1420
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,320
Speaker 5: realizing that I could have been so easily traffic really

1421
01:19:21,320 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 5: freaked me out. I am so glad that young women

1422
01:19:24,360 --> 01:19:27,799
Speaker 5: nowadays listen to shows like yours, have access to information

1423
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 5: on the Internet and would think twice about such an

1424
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:34,880
Speaker 5: amazing opportunity. Issues that in quotes. I hope anyways, keep

1425
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:39,200
Speaker 5: up the good work. Love from Ireland, oh or from Irland.

1426
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:46,120
Speaker 5: They're all talking about how we would all ben the

1427
01:19:46,160 --> 01:19:49,360
Speaker 5: perfect victims. Like when we were young house I would

1428
01:19:49,360 --> 01:19:51,160
Speaker 5: have jumped at the opportunity to go to.

1429
01:19:51,160 --> 01:19:52,160
Speaker 2: Some sky's island.

1430
01:19:52,200 --> 01:19:52,680
Speaker 5: What are you.

1431
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 2: Thinking the White Party? Remember about the boy mansion which

1432
01:19:57,320 --> 01:20:00,800
Speaker 2: we now he has had other you know stuff associated

1433
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 2: with it. We're seeing these you know, invitations to go

1434
01:20:04,200 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 2: to these types of parties hook line and sinker. Why

1435
01:20:07,920 --> 01:20:11,320
Speaker 2: that's not because we're we're dumb and making bad decisions.

1436
01:20:11,320 --> 01:20:13,599
Speaker 2: It's because we don't see the world that way, right.

1437
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 2: You don't think that human beings do this to other

1438
01:20:17,120 --> 01:20:19,640
Speaker 2: human beings. So, you know, if you're not raised in

1439
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 2: a world where you have to have one eye open

1440
01:20:21,880 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 2: because you think everyone's going to commit you know, hideous

1441
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:31,480
Speaker 2: crimes to you if left alone with you, that's like insane.

1442
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:33,560
Speaker 2: And now we're seeing how prevalent, you know, by the

1443
01:20:33,600 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 2: way we had talked about this, I was thinking this

1444
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:38,479
Speaker 2: last night. There is that movie and we've called it's

1445
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 2: called Blink b l I and k Is and Kite Blink,

1446
01:20:42,320 --> 01:20:49,560
Speaker 2: and it was directed by Uhze.

1447
01:20:47,200 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 8: Kravits Zoe Kravis.

1448
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:55,679
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's Lenny Kravitz and Lisa Bonet's daughter. Zoe cried,

1449
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:59,479
Speaker 2: it's very beautiful, so beautiful being Harry styles just like

1450
01:21:00,240 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 2: looks just like her. She was in Pretty Little Lies.

1451
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 5: I love that show.

1452
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:07,519
Speaker 2: It's a great show. She directed a movie called Blink,

1453
01:21:07,640 --> 01:21:09,920
Speaker 2: and if I remember correctly, when she was doing press

1454
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:14,519
Speaker 2: her then boyfriend Chatham Tatum chatting Tatum, but it's a

1455
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:18,800
Speaker 2: real terrible onslaught of celebrity name sorry, he stars in it.

1456
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:22,559
Speaker 2: But she said she I think she wrote it and

1457
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:25,680
Speaker 2: directed it, that it was based on stories that she

1458
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 2: either personally experienced or people around her had experience, and

1459
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 2: like knowing that and hearing what we're hearing these days

1460
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:36,760
Speaker 2: and the things that I'm reading in these files and

1461
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:40,800
Speaker 2: in these cases, the GHB of it all in the

1462
01:21:40,880 --> 01:21:44,400
Speaker 2: Alexander case, like the idea we should all watch it

1463
01:21:44,439 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 2: because it's almost like she's giving us the playbook right

1464
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 2: there of how this all kind of happens. Thank God,

1465
01:21:50,280 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 2: talk about.

1466
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,680
Speaker 8: It and it's it's Blink twice just for anyone.

1467
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:54,479
Speaker 5: Out there twice.

1468
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:56,160
Speaker 8: Yeah, with Channing Tatum.

1469
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:56,400
Speaker 2: I did.

1470
01:21:56,640 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 8: I saw that as well, and the entire time I

1471
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:01,960
Speaker 8: saw it. I'm like, this is completely setting up everything

1472
01:22:02,000 --> 01:22:04,720
Speaker 8: they're talking about with the Epstein Island. So I won't

1473
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:07,240
Speaker 8: give away, you know, much other than that part of it.

1474
01:22:07,280 --> 01:22:11,200
Speaker 8: But yeah, that's the whole concept. But I also was

1475
01:22:11,200 --> 01:22:13,320
Speaker 8: thinking earlier too, like I think I would have when

1476
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:15,439
Speaker 8: we're saying how easily you would have been fooled and

1477
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:18,479
Speaker 8: gone along with this, there's a side of me that

1478
01:22:18,520 --> 01:22:20,799
Speaker 8: would have naturally thought like, oh, this person is very wealthy,

1479
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 8: like the Alexander Brothers or p Diddy. They wouldn't do

1480
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 8: anything wild and crazy like this, Like.

1481
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:28,080
Speaker 2: I had a reputation to protect right, they would never

1482
01:22:28,120 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 2: put themselves in a position that they would be treated poorly.

1483
01:22:31,439 --> 01:22:33,160
Speaker 2: Or this could be like if this got out, why

1484
01:22:33,160 --> 01:22:35,080
Speaker 2: would they do that? They could have anybody they want.

1485
01:22:35,200 --> 01:22:38,439
Speaker 2: That's again we're not dealing with normal people here. Yeah,

1486
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 2: they could have, of course. And by the way, the

1487
01:22:41,320 --> 01:22:43,559
Speaker 2: system we're also seeing is a little bit rigged. Who

1488
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,400
Speaker 2: do you tell if on the other side of it,

1489
01:22:46,600 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 2: you know there's lawyers involved in payoffs, involved in non

1490
01:22:50,240 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 2: disclosure agreements involved, and you feel like it's your fault

1491
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:56,320
Speaker 2: or that you went on the trip you walked, you

1492
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:58,600
Speaker 2: walked into the party. Didn't you know that this was

1493
01:22:58,640 --> 01:23:01,799
Speaker 2: going to happen? No, nobody would think that. Look, everybody

1494
01:23:01,840 --> 01:23:04,880
Speaker 2: knew I didn't you know? I I yeah, I handed

1495
01:23:04,920 --> 01:23:08,120
Speaker 2: my passport over because I've never been to an island before.

1496
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 2: It sounded like a great idea. And the girl next

1497
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 2: to me said, do it right, and I'm an idiot.

1498
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 2: And it turns out I'm an idiot. She's fine, so okay, Yeah,

1499
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,120
Speaker 2: while she's like wink wink, right, and you know, the

1500
01:23:20,200 --> 01:23:23,400
Speaker 2: talent agent and the this and the casting person and

1501
01:23:23,479 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 2: the this and then that, it's like its system is rigged.

1502
01:23:26,439 --> 01:23:28,720
Speaker 2: And now we're seeing the and the politician and the

1503
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:31,160
Speaker 2: person making the law. Oh, and the person who decides

1504
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 2: on who gets guilty and who gets inno exactly, oh,

1505
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:37,799
Speaker 2: in the person here, Like it's all it's the system

1506
01:23:37,880 --> 01:23:40,439
Speaker 2: is righting, period. But we have each other to make

1507
01:23:40,520 --> 01:23:43,280
Speaker 2: sure we're talking about it. So that's why this is

1508
01:23:43,439 --> 01:23:44,240
Speaker 2: important stuff.

1509
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 5: Everyone should listen to that episode of Lisa. It was

1510
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:50,960
Speaker 5: really good and I'm still kind of reeling from it

1511
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 5: to be Yeah.

1512
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:56,479
Speaker 6: Absolutely, And just when she walked us through how you

1513
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 6: know how calculating he was by just hey, I'm so

1514
01:24:00,560 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 6: interested in you as a person and just to gain,

1515
01:24:04,439 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 6: you know, to lay that foundation.

1516
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:08,080
Speaker 4: It's it's the grooming.

1517
01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 6: It goes back to any kind of grooming, and it's

1518
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:13,720
Speaker 6: so the grooming.

1519
01:24:14,360 --> 01:24:17,840
Speaker 5: I mean, it's all abstract to me, right until I

1520
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 5: could hear it, like how how it happened to her,

1521
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 5: and then for whatever reason, it was abstract in my mind. Yeah,

1522
01:24:25,479 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 5: in talking to Lisa and I and I if she

1523
01:24:27,520 --> 01:24:30,760
Speaker 5: hears this, I want her to know if there's other

1524
01:24:30,800 --> 01:24:33,080
Speaker 5: people like me that listen to the for the first

1525
01:24:33,120 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 5: time a victim story like that, you really kind of

1526
01:24:36,120 --> 01:24:40,720
Speaker 5: awoken a lot of people, because for me, it was

1527
01:24:40,840 --> 01:24:43,160
Speaker 5: just such a watershed moment.

1528
01:24:43,439 --> 01:24:43,879
Speaker 8: Yeah.

1529
01:24:44,120 --> 01:24:48,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I'm feeling the same way about uh, you

1530
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:51,640
Speaker 6: know how we're covering the Alexander Brothers trial and just

1531
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 6: hearing from these women's mouth what happened. And again, I

1532
01:24:57,200 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 6: I just I hope that it, like like our friend

1533
01:25:01,160 --> 01:25:04,559
Speaker 6: from Ireland said, awakens people to the fact that this

1534
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:08,320
Speaker 6: can actually these things can happen.

1535
01:25:08,400 --> 01:25:11,960
Speaker 2: Right and money allows it to. You know, what I'm

1536
01:25:11,960 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 2: noticing is the wake up call against the system that's

1537
01:25:14,920 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 2: built by elites that have money to pay people off

1538
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:20,040
Speaker 2: and pay off the system because we don't think this

1539
01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,200
Speaker 2: is happening behind closed doors. These are not the type

1540
01:25:22,200 --> 01:25:25,040
Speaker 2: of men that I know that I think this country

1541
01:25:25,120 --> 01:25:28,360
Speaker 2: is built on. Like this is I think we all

1542
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:31,120
Speaker 2: have that in common, Like I like, these are just

1543
01:25:31,160 --> 01:25:35,360
Speaker 2: like these terrible humans that are really taking.

1544
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:39,799
Speaker 5: What is that like away from power corrupts.

1545
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, said that, and I do not believe it,

1546
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:46,240
Speaker 2: but I'm I'm having a hard time seeing through it

1547
01:25:46,320 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 2: at this point.

1548
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:50,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a saying for a reason, it's a cliche

1549
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 5: for a reason.

1550
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 2: But the rest of us are paying the price for it,

1551
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:55,439
Speaker 2: right We're the ones that are paying because we don't

1552
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:57,760
Speaker 2: hear the ones that are having our children sent to

1553
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,080
Speaker 2: or our loved ones or a husband or family members

1554
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:03,720
Speaker 2: sent to serve and wars and like it. Just I

1555
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:05,679
Speaker 2: feel like we all have to be paying very close

1556
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:08,679
Speaker 2: attention in this coming week or two of just being

1557
01:26:08,760 --> 01:26:11,320
Speaker 2: vigilant and keeping open minded and making sure that we're

1558
01:26:11,360 --> 01:26:15,000
Speaker 2: not being hit against each other in any chaotic way,

1559
01:26:16,120 --> 01:26:21,560
Speaker 2: because we all just need to kind of stay like creative,

1560
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:24,400
Speaker 2: you know, we have to also very connected, I guess, right.

1561
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is key.

1562
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,559
Speaker 6: If you're just joining us, you are connecting with us

1563
01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 6: on true crime tonight, I'm great. I'm here with Body

1564
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:37,599
Speaker 6: Moven and Stephanie Leidecker and Taha, a neighbor, and Adam

1565
01:26:37,640 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 6: and Sam, so we got a full herd of us

1566
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 6: and right now we are talking about what you want

1567
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:48,160
Speaker 6: to talk about through dms and talk backs, and actually

1568
01:26:49,400 --> 01:26:53,040
Speaker 6: I would like Taha, I think there's one that.

1569
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:53,679
Speaker 4: You should share.

1570
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, well this DM it ties in with everybody is

1571
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:02,120
Speaker 8: going gaga over these sweatshirts that we have started talking about,

1572
01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:05,799
Speaker 8: which I completely understand why. But do you guys remember

1573
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:10,960
Speaker 8: Alisha from Atlanta. She's called the time. Okay, Well, Alicia

1574
01:27:11,040 --> 01:27:12,960
Speaker 8: has written to us and this is her d M.

1575
01:27:13,800 --> 01:27:18,080
Speaker 8: This is Miss Velvet Voice. Oh yeah, yes, she does

1576
01:27:18,120 --> 01:27:21,320
Speaker 8: have that velvet with you. I love her. This is

1577
01:27:21,360 --> 01:27:25,080
Speaker 8: Miss Velvet Voice. Tell iHeart that Alisha from Atlanta wants

1578
01:27:25,120 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 8: an allegedly allegedly allegedly sweatshirt. Let me save you the

1579
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:32,280
Speaker 8: trouble and I will send my address right now. You

1580
01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:34,040
Speaker 8: can shout me out on the show, but I ain't

1581
01:27:34,040 --> 01:27:38,640
Speaker 8: too proud to bag. I love you, guys, Alicia.

1582
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:40,640
Speaker 4: We love you back.

1583
01:27:43,320 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 5: For the first time today on someone right.

1584
01:27:46,720 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was wearing she she.

1585
01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:56,320
Speaker 8: She says, the material is nice, it feels good. So

1586
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,599
Speaker 8: you missed this body Well, we were talking about it

1587
01:27:59,640 --> 01:28:02,200
Speaker 8: in between break earlier, but like how much like the

1588
01:28:02,200 --> 01:28:04,920
Speaker 8: material is so fabulous, the colors, that everything. We were

1589
01:28:04,960 --> 01:28:07,960
Speaker 8: just going on and on about this, but I have

1590
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:12,160
Speaker 8: another talk back from someone who has a feeling about

1591
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 8: the sweatshirts as well. If you want to listen to

1592
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:15,879
Speaker 8: this one.

1593
01:28:16,680 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 10: Okay, ladies, more swag talk. I think I probably speak

1594
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 10: for everyone, but I would buy the sweatshirt, so don't

1595
01:28:27,200 --> 01:28:32,840
Speaker 10: worry about not having enough or what iHeart radio the limitation.

1596
01:28:33,960 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 10: I want to buy one because I want to make

1597
01:28:36,040 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 10: sure I get one in my life.

1598
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 8: We will get you one because of this, so but

1599
01:28:42,640 --> 01:28:45,880
Speaker 8: I love it. It'll feel snuggy. You're can't kind of

1600
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,000
Speaker 8: slipping in with us late at night, put your big

1601
01:28:48,040 --> 01:28:50,559
Speaker 8: swept shirt on, get your cup of coffee or tea.

1602
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:58,280
Speaker 2: Tops, Oh my god, Titi tops.

1603
01:28:59,400 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 6: I mean that would a scene on Maya And.

1604
01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:02,200
Speaker 5: Tell what.

1605
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 2: If I eventually, yeah, someday, one of these days I'm

1606
01:29:07,880 --> 01:29:10,720
Speaker 2: going to get a boom lift or job something. I'll

1607
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:12,800
Speaker 2: be the first to tell. But then I says allegedly,

1608
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:17,600
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly on them, I like.

1609
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 4: Where you're going.

1610
01:29:18,120 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 8: There's something some aware though.

1611
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:21,120
Speaker 2: You have a good point, like it's going to be

1612
01:29:21,960 --> 01:29:26,800
Speaker 2: let's already graduated us from our oversized podies.

1613
01:29:26,520 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 8: And dream I'm going to get already in line, so

1614
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:33,000
Speaker 8: I'm ready for it.

1615
01:29:33,160 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 5: I already got dreams.

1616
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,640
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, I'm down to the bone, so I just

1617
01:29:37,720 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 2: dream about ever having to get dressed again. We can

1618
01:29:40,240 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 2: just always be wearing our swag.

1619
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:44,320
Speaker 8: I feel like there should be something in the pajama

1620
01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 8: family though.

1621
01:29:45,160 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 4: Like.

1622
01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:51,519
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, I'm ding I'm pink today too. I just

1623
01:29:51,600 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 5: noticed that you sweat your very cute we have.

1624
01:29:57,280 --> 01:30:01,680
Speaker 6: I wanted to share Joanna on the Swag Train, she

1625
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:06,320
Speaker 6: sent a DM okay swag. I love the idea of

1626
01:30:06,360 --> 01:30:10,960
Speaker 6: a random drawing for fairness, but seeing as if I

1627
01:30:11,160 --> 01:30:14,000
Speaker 6: didn't have bad luck, I would have no luck at all.

1628
01:30:14,520 --> 01:30:16,280
Speaker 6: Will there ever come a time when they will be

1629
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 6: available for purchase? I love y'all, and again, thanks for

1630
01:30:19,960 --> 01:30:22,280
Speaker 6: being something to look forward to each day in these

1631
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 6: crazy times.

1632
01:30:23,520 --> 01:30:25,759
Speaker 4: Joanna, can we just say.

1633
01:30:25,600 --> 01:30:28,519
Speaker 2: Like, if you leave a talk back, you get one

1634
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:32,640
Speaker 2: for like a couple of days. I think opinions, if

1635
01:30:32,640 --> 01:30:37,479
Speaker 2: you leave your opinion, don't just right now, we all

1636
01:30:37,479 --> 01:30:39,599
Speaker 2: need to share our opinions because like I feel like

1637
01:30:39,960 --> 01:30:43,760
Speaker 2: we're all like working through the sauce together a little bit.

1638
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 2: Like all opinions are welcome. It's not to like, you know,

1639
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:51,400
Speaker 2: prove this or that, but just to like share. I

1640
01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:54,640
Speaker 2: think everybody will living in a right exactly, Like I

1641
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:57,519
Speaker 2: think everybody is so reasonable, like just to share opinions.

1642
01:30:57,600 --> 01:31:00,000
Speaker 2: And like, I think we're entering kind of a confused

1643
01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 2: little stretch of new information and misinformation and scary hard information.

1644
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:08,120
Speaker 2: Scary information. Yeah, like I think we can lead through

1645
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:09,080
Speaker 2: it together, though.

1646
01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:12,800
Speaker 6: I mean, I gotta tell you, guys, I'm still stuff.

1647
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:15,960
Speaker 6: I'm so scared of AI, and I'm still so shook

1648
01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 6: up by the dog video of that we think you

1649
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:22,640
Speaker 6: about a couple of weeks ago. I can't get past that,

1650
01:31:22,840 --> 01:31:24,840
Speaker 6: the one where both Stephanie and I hook Lon and

1651
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:28,360
Speaker 6: sinker for AI of a whole bunch of people sitting

1652
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:30,920
Speaker 6: there and one dog who needed a rescue, going and

1653
01:31:31,000 --> 01:31:33,120
Speaker 6: choosing it and then everyone's crying.

1654
01:31:33,479 --> 01:31:33,680
Speaker 4: You know.

1655
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:36,160
Speaker 6: Even I was telling my husband about it, He's like,

1656
01:31:36,200 --> 01:31:39,439
Speaker 6: would you really believe that? I'm like, I did.

1657
01:31:39,479 --> 01:31:42,719
Speaker 5: What are you talking about wearing a wedding dress? Courtney?

1658
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 5: Did you really think.

1659
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:47,439
Speaker 2: That one there wasn't no one there was one that

1660
01:31:47,600 --> 01:31:50,799
Speaker 2: was very realistic. It just looked like a room. And

1661
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:52,400
Speaker 2: by the way, here's what I was going to say,

1662
01:31:52,400 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 2: I'll one up you on that court. Not only was

1663
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:57,200
Speaker 2: I disappointed and heart wrench but why aren't we doing that?

1664
01:31:57,400 --> 01:31:58,040
Speaker 5: I agree?

1665
01:31:58,240 --> 01:31:59,040
Speaker 2: Great idea.

1666
01:31:59,240 --> 01:32:01,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, it's a brilliant the publicity, you.

1667
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:05,000
Speaker 2: Know, for like we should do Let's let's do that

1668
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,920
Speaker 2: like I make reality. Yeah, you know, I'm waiting to

1669
01:32:08,960 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 2: be found cold, to be in this snowy weather all

1670
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:14,559
Speaker 2: the time.

1671
01:32:15,640 --> 01:32:17,439
Speaker 5: Some pearls are never found.

1672
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:24,400
Speaker 6: Oh oh, I like that and heartbreaking dropped us with

1673
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:27,240
Speaker 6: a couple of really good lines write.

1674
01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:32,800
Speaker 2: He's like, hey, heavy body today, I watch Did you

1675
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:35,280
Speaker 2: watch Hambnet this weekend? Has anyone watched it yet?

1676
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:37,840
Speaker 8: I have seen it. I cried yet.

1677
01:32:37,760 --> 01:32:41,200
Speaker 2: It's not as powerful in the theater. It really does

1678
01:32:41,280 --> 01:32:43,960
Speaker 2: kind of get you. I haven't cried that hard in

1679
01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:47,479
Speaker 2: a long time in a movie. Hamnet h A M

1680
01:32:47,880 --> 01:32:51,400
Speaker 2: N E T. And I'm not into a period piece.

1681
01:32:51,439 --> 01:32:53,160
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I see a period piece and my

1682
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:59,519
Speaker 2: eyes roll And it was really beautiful. She's nominated for

1683
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:00,280
Speaker 2: a noscar her.

1684
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:02,439
Speaker 8: Yeah, and she's really good.

1685
01:33:02,520 --> 01:33:06,120
Speaker 2: It Okay, can we say anybody who leaves a talkback

1686
01:33:06,439 --> 01:33:08,960
Speaker 2: or calls live tomorrow gets a sweatshirt?

1687
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:15,160
Speaker 8: Anybody? Okay, all right, get ready.

1688
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:17,160
Speaker 2: Twenty four hours so until tomorrow night. If you leave

1689
01:33:17,200 --> 01:33:20,479
Speaker 2: a talkback with an opinion, keep clean, you know, no

1690
01:33:20,560 --> 01:33:23,280
Speaker 2: curse words, but like and then just give it to

1691
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:25,639
Speaker 2: us straight though your honest opinion. Even if you don't

1692
01:33:25,640 --> 01:33:28,040
Speaker 2: want to leave your name, you'll get you can leave

1693
01:33:28,040 --> 01:33:29,719
Speaker 2: it separate. But I just think we need to share

1694
01:33:30,560 --> 01:33:33,880
Speaker 2: and we're going to all be a okay because we're

1695
01:33:33,880 --> 01:33:34,639
Speaker 2: going to navigate.

1696
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:36,280
Speaker 5: We're going to get it together.

1697
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:39,280
Speaker 8: Can I go one step further with that? We have

1698
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:42,719
Speaker 8: a guest tomorrow on our show. We have Hailey Robson.

1699
01:33:42,800 --> 01:33:45,960
Speaker 8: She's going to be joining us. She's going to come

1700
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:48,760
Speaker 8: back to talk about the latest and her feelings about

1701
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:49,599
Speaker 8: the document dump.

1702
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:50,479
Speaker 5: So if you.

1703
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:54,439
Speaker 8: Have talkbacks about for Haley about your feeling on that,

1704
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:55,840
Speaker 8: add those to the mix.

1705
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:59,959
Speaker 2: Ahmen, I love it all right, Well, we'll be back tomorrow.

1706
01:34:00,280 --> 01:34:00,639
Speaker 4: Guys.

1707
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:02,519
Speaker 2: I love you so much. Thanks for holding the space,

1708
01:34:02,640 --> 01:34:05,519
Speaker 2: and tomorrow is a whole new day. Let's have a

1709
01:34:05,520 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 2: great week. Everybody stay safe out there.

1710
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:07,639
Speaker 4: By