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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: its affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we talk

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. It is officially Thursday, June fifth,

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Speaker 2: our last show of the week. Make sure you come

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Speaker 2: back and join us on Sunday. We're here Sunday through

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Speaker 2: Thursday for two hours live, so we have a stacked

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Speaker 2: night of headlines tonight. I mean Banana's new testimony at

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Speaker 2: the Diddy trial. Cassie Ventura, Diddy's X had several friends

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Speaker 2: take the stand and it's pretty explosive, and also Karen Reid.

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Speaker 2: They were out of court today because of the heat.

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Speaker 2: But we need to really catch you up because we

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Speaker 2: didn't talk about it last night, because several experts have

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Speaker 2: taken the stand and honestly tons to unpack there, and

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Speaker 2: of course updates on the fugitive father accused of killing

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Speaker 2: his daughters. He remains at large. We want you to

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Speaker 2: stay vigilant and we will discuss that later in the

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Speaker 2: show as well. But first, I'm Stephanie Leidecker and I

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Speaker 2: head up KAT Studios, where we make true crime podcasts

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Speaker 2: like The Idaho Massacre or The piked In Massacre and

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Speaker 2: Runner one oh one, and I get to do that

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Speaker 2: alongside Courtney Armstrong. She's also a producer and host who

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Speaker 2: voices many of our podcasts. And then of course Body Movin,

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Speaker 2: who also has been in our podcast but also you'll

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Speaker 2: recognize her from the Emmy Award winning documentary Don't Have

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Speaker 2: with Cats. So, ladies, there's so much to unpack today.

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Speaker 2: Where should we begin? On the Diddy trial? Body, oh, Diddy,

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Speaker 2: Diddy Diddy? Come enough the Diddy right?

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Speaker 3: And if I never heard the word Diddy after he's

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Speaker 3: after this is over, it'll be too soon. So testimony

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Speaker 3: continue today, in of course, his federal trial with Cassie

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Speaker 3: Ventura's like pretty much her best friend Brianna Bonna, Okay,

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Speaker 3: so I'm just gonna call her Bona. That's like what

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Speaker 3: she goes by, so let's just respect that and call

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Speaker 3: her Bana. She took the stand for the second day

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Speaker 3: in a row. She testified yesterday as well, and yesterday

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Speaker 3: she testified that Ditty dangled her over a balcony. Yes

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Speaker 3: like by seventeen stories yeah, seventeen stories up in the air,

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Speaker 3: and then threw her onto some patio furniture, and she

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Speaker 3: was like injured from this, and.

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Speaker 2: Of course absolutely terrified. We're going to get into that.

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Speaker 3: Prosecutors alleged that from just as an overview, for the

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Speaker 3: last twenty years he Didty has operated like a criminal enterprise.

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Speaker 3: He's being charged with federal racketeering and sex trafficking. So

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Speaker 3: if he's found guilty of these charges, he's going to

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Speaker 3: be in prison for the rest of his life. Bona,

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Speaker 3: she's a fashion designer. She testified that her and Cassie

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Speaker 3: hung out and used drugs frequently. Why Cassie was dating Ditty? Okay,

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Speaker 3: no shame there, I get it. She also recalled witnessing

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Speaker 3: all a lot of the abuse. She saw them throw

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Speaker 3: knives at each other, she said, which is, you know,

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Speaker 3: horribly toxic. She recounted that in twenty sixteen, did he

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Speaker 3: stormed in like he stormed into Kassie's apartment, picked her

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Speaker 3: up and dangled her over the balcony again, seventeen floors

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Speaker 3: up in the air, shouting at her, you know what

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Speaker 3: you did? Meanwhile, She's like, I have no idea what

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Speaker 3: I did? How terrifying. Would that be petrified?

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Speaker 2: Now? Didn't sug Night also do that with Vanilla Ice? Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: infamously famously Yes, Yeah, I know exactly the informant from

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Speaker 2: behind bars that Sugar Night. Yes, he's weighing in regularly

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Speaker 2: about this case, right, I mean, that's just kind of crazy.

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Speaker 3: So he eventually threw her onto the balcony furniture, and

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Speaker 3: like I said, he there were bruises on her body.

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Speaker 2: And she even had a neck injury from this. Doesn't

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Speaker 2: it feel like her injuries just are relentlessly reported by everyone.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's something that everybody pretty much

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Speaker 2: agrees on, right, that it was drug fueled and that

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Speaker 2: she was getting beaten up all the time, and that

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Speaker 2: black eyes were regular, and yeah, you talk about this

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Speaker 2: knife fight. At some point, Diddy literally threw a knife

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Speaker 2: at her and then she, like a little ninja, threw

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Speaker 2: it right back. Yeah, both times they missed. But that's

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Speaker 2: so toxic to your photoxic beyond measure.

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Speaker 3: Like if I was in that kind of relationship, I'd

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Speaker 3: be like, Okay, there's nothing that I can do. I

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Speaker 3: have got to get out of here. But I digress.

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Speaker 3: I'm not definitely not blaming her. She also testified you

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Speaker 3: guys that her and Cassie were in Malibu Diddy with

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Speaker 3: Diddy and they were like just taking photos on the beach,

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Speaker 3: you know, the being girls, right, and Diddy like storms

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Speaker 3: up to her and says again, she says she doesn't

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Speaker 3: know why, and says she got in his face or

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Speaker 3: he got in her face. I'm sorry and said I'm

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Speaker 3: the devil and I could kill you. That seems what

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Speaker 3: could do it to me?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely wackuad do If any of this is true, Diddy

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Speaker 3: is like a crazy person, like out of control, psycho

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Speaker 3: like just crazy behavior in now Here's the thing though,

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Speaker 3: In November of last year, Bana filed a lawsuit against

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Speaker 3: Diddy demanding ten million dollars okay, and that civil suit

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Speaker 3: is still pending, and she said that she's not being

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Speaker 3: there's no financial benefit for her to be testifying at

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Speaker 3: this trial, but that that that lawsuit is still pending.

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Speaker 3: I just thought it was interesting to mention.

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Speaker 2: That because that's brought up quite a bit too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: this civil lawsuit, I think, you know, listen, here's the

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Speaker 2: thing about these lawsuits, and we should have a lawyer

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Speaker 2: on to really unpack this they sign NDA's right, So

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Speaker 2: that seems to be a name of the game in

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Speaker 2: Diddy world, is that everybody has to sign an NDA,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, short for a non disclosure agreement exactly,

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Speaker 2: a non disclosure agreement meaning anything that happens here you

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Speaker 2: cannot talk about or you'll be sued. And you know,

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Speaker 2: our understanding is that was applied to Cassie, his ex

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Speaker 2: as well, until she filed her civil lawsuit in November

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Speaker 2: of what three, twenty twenty four, Yeah, just last year.

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Speaker 2: She had this civil lawsuit and it was pretty clever

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Speaker 2: because in that lawsuit, which becomes public record, she accounted

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Speaker 2: for some of the abuse she endured and that was

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Speaker 2: sort of the crack that sort of broke the dam

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Speaker 2: and the water has since flushed in followed by the raids,

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Speaker 2: and so a civil lawsuit also puts things on record

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Speaker 2: and kind of is a workaround an NDA.

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Speaker 3: Right, So during cross examination, they've kind of brought all

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Speaker 3: these inconsistencies up all right, So Diddy's lawyers are questioning her.

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Speaker 3: It's cross it's hostile, you know, everything that you can imagine,

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Speaker 3: and they apparently there's some there's some contention on whether

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Speaker 3: or not Cassie actually saw Bona being held over the balcony,

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Speaker 3: and there's some inconsistencies that they brought They brought up

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Speaker 3: and they also asked her about. In January of twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four, prior to her filing the lawsuit, she sent

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Speaker 3: a demand letter that claimed Diddy groped her before lifting

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Speaker 3: her up over the balcony, allegations that were not mentioned

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Speaker 3: during her testimony. So that they're basically calling her out

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Speaker 3: for leaving that out of her testimony. So that we're

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Speaker 3: going to see how that ends. We don't know yet.

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Speaker 4: There's so much unfolding. So body, what struck me unbelievably

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Speaker 4: was during Bonna's testimony during the cross examination, did he

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Speaker 4: was he was quote vigorously nodding and making all this

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Speaker 4: eye contact with the jurors. And this happened just before

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Speaker 4: the lunch break, and the judge said there was absolutely

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Speaker 4: no contact with the jury. If he did it again,

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Speaker 4: he'd be thrown out of court.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it happened twice. Wow, this happened twice. So apparently

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Speaker 3: during Bona's testimony, did he looked at the jurors and

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Speaker 3: you know, we're not in the court room and there's

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Speaker 3: no television. This is all just recounted. But he apparently

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Speaker 3: looked at the jurors and like shook his head like no,

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Speaker 3: I'm guessing right. That just says shook his head vigorously

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Speaker 3: at the jurors. And this happened twice, and the judge

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Speaker 3: warned him that he would remove him from his own

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Speaker 3: trial if he continued to behavior, and he said, on unquoting,

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Speaker 3: there should be no efforts whatsoever to have any interaction

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Speaker 3: with this jury, because you know that could be like intimidation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, where is victim number three? Where he

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Speaker 2: is victim number three who was on the docket. And

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Speaker 2: for those of you who don't know this, there have

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Speaker 2: been several victims that were identified in the press. Victim

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Speaker 2: number three is what was one that we'd been hearing about.

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Speaker 2: And now they're suddenly like not in the party anymore.

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Speaker 2: Either they're just bailing on their story or you know,

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Speaker 2: the rumor would be that they were gotten to. By

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Speaker 2: the way, can you imagine being a jury You're there

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Speaker 2: in the jury stand facing Diddy, knowing these allegations that

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Speaker 2: are happening. If he gets off again, dangerous, you know,

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Speaker 2: I would literally have a paper bag over my head

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Speaker 2: and give them so much credit for doing the job

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Speaker 2: of all of us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because all this testimony shows that did he seems

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Speaker 4: to have no problem intimidating violently and going after people,

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Speaker 4: I mean honesty estimony. You know, she said she had nightmares,

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Speaker 4: she was having paranoia, She's to scream in her sleep

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Speaker 4: a lot, like his actions had these ripple effects in

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Speaker 4: people's lives.

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Speaker 3: Right, Another woman testified Jane and that's like, apparently, is

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Speaker 3: that that's a pseudo name. I'm a yeah, that's just

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Speaker 3: like victim number two, victim number two. So Jane was

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Speaker 3: actually in a relationship with Ditty starting in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 3: and she's a single mom. She meets Ditty. Can you

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Speaker 3: imagine you meet like a famous rapper who's extraordinarily wealthy,

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Speaker 3: You're a single, struggling mom, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 3: you have this, like all this attention from this like,

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Speaker 3: you know, really desirable person, Like that's got to be overwhelming.

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Speaker 3: While her and Ditty kind of kept things on the

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Speaker 3: download because he was still seeing other women, like of course,

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Speaker 3: because men's sock right, I'm kidding me and I'm joking,

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Speaker 3: and you know, so they kept it kind of on

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Speaker 3: the download. But as the relationship progressed, they started spending

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Speaker 3: more time having some sexy time, and then of.

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Speaker 2: Course the free coughs.

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Speaker 3: She started coming or he started demanding, basically that she

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Speaker 3: started coming to these freak offs and having these twenty

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Speaker 3: hour long sex sessions with other men while he watched.

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Speaker 2: And she said.

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Speaker 3: Sometimes they would go through dozens of bottles of baby

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Speaker 3: oil in one night.

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Speaker 2: He did baby oil Johnson and Johnson's very specific unbelievable, Yeah, unbelivable. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and remember how those hotel rooms, I mean, these were

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Speaker 2: all staged and choreographed sexual events too. These weren't like

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Speaker 2: spontaneous moments between people who really loved each other. Now,

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Speaker 2: this was like a sex play and the only difference

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Speaker 2: was Diddy was recording it and would ultimately allegedly use

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Speaker 2: that as ammunition.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she said they used like twenty four bottles wow

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Speaker 3: of baby oil in a single night, and he Diddy

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Speaker 3: would often require her to have sex with multiple men

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Speaker 3: over the course of these sessions that would last twenty

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Speaker 3: four to thirty hours.

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Speaker 2: I mean, oh, imagine, you know, it's so interesting, you know,

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Speaker 2: did he has an interesting backstory? This is something we

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Speaker 2: should get into maybe on our Sunday show where we

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Speaker 2: can really unpack a little of the backstory. But do it,

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Speaker 2: you know, if you guys don't know. His mother is

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Speaker 2: an interesting kind of piece of this puzzle. She's very

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Speaker 2: that she's known for her blonde wigs in her white

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Speaker 2: nail polish. Many of his girlfriends say that he really

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Speaker 2: prefers them in this particular white cream nail polish. His

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Speaker 2: dad was allegedly involved with some sort of drugs and

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Speaker 2: organized crime in New York back in the day and

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Speaker 2: was killed when he was two years old. There's some

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Speaker 2: meat on the bone there that you know, is just

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Speaker 2: worth unpacking.

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Speaker 4: I think it is a really complicated backstory to what

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Speaker 4: we're witnessing today. Later in the show, we're going to

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Speaker 4: be discussing the horrifying story of Travis Decker. He's the

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Speaker 4: father accused of killing his three daughters and then going

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Speaker 4: on the run. We will be joined by a mental

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Speaker 4: health expert to talk a little bit more about that case.

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Speaker 4: And we're all so going to be discussing the latest

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Speaker 4: in the retrial of Karen Reid, and we'll be hearing

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Speaker 4: from you true crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: That tragic case of Travis Decker. He's the accused father

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Speaker 2: of killing his three daughters. We're trying to get the

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Speaker 2: word out there because he remains at large. And we're

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Speaker 2: also going to have an expert on to sort of

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Speaker 2: break down whatever mental problems or mental health issues he

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Speaker 2: was having and see where we can find that and

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Speaker 2: understand it better in our own lives. And then just

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Speaker 2: the latest on Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni. Come on,

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Speaker 2: we can't get enough of that. It's been a minute.

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Speaker 2: We might as well bring everybody up to speed on

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Speaker 2: that as well. But first we actually have our talk

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Speaker 2: back of the first little stretch of the show, so

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Speaker 2: we received this earlier today. So yeah, let's play.

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Speaker 5: Hey True Crime tonight. It's Aaron from New York. I'm

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Speaker 5: loving your podcast and I have you preset. So I

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Speaker 5: believe that Karen Read is innocent, but I have to

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Speaker 5: admit that the dogfight story seems a little flimsy. I

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Speaker 5: don't think Karen did it. But other than the dog story,

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Speaker 5: do you have any theories on what could have gone

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Speaker 5: down inside the house that led to jonal keystuff. I'll

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Speaker 5: be listening to hear what you think.

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Speaker 4: Thank you feature. It is the best and listen. Anyone

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Speaker 4: can always send us a talkback message when you're listening

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Speaker 4: to us in the iHeartRadio app, just click on that

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Speaker 4: microphone icon. It's in the top right corner. We'll get

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Speaker 4: it played on the air. And you can also set

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Speaker 4: True Crime Tonight podcast as a preset. Then you won't

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Speaker 4: miss anything. But Aaron from New York love this question.

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Speaker 4: I am also with you. I also think Karen Reid

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Speaker 4: in this moment is innocent. If I had to say, what.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, you say it louder for the back

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Speaker 2: of the room.

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Speaker 4: And the dog bite. It has been confusing, and we're

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Speaker 4: going to get a little bit deeper into the testimony

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Speaker 4: that just has occurred from the expert. But what I

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Speaker 4: think happened was that there was something messy that happened

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Speaker 4: in the house with John O'Keefe and his fellow officers,

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Speaker 4: that there was an altercation. I think it possibly involved

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Speaker 4: another officer, Brian Higgins, who has testified that he has

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Speaker 4: had a very flirty, sexy relationship with Reid, including a kiss.

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Speaker 4: And I think that it's actually a cover up and

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Speaker 4: that Curra Read is being accord show.

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Speaker 2: Let the record show. I mean, look, I think this

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Speaker 2: is really a look at the brotherhood of law enforcement

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Speaker 2: in certain places, right. You know, on the one hand,

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Speaker 2: this is a group of men who put themselves on

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Speaker 2: the line on a daily basis. So this is not

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Speaker 2: any comment on that. It's just an observation that this

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Speaker 2: particular crew seemed pretty darn tight and they look out

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Speaker 2: for each other, and some of this is just not

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Speaker 2: adding up. Have you guys seen the video of the

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Speaker 2: surveillance video of them in the final moments at the

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Speaker 2: Waterfall Bar where Higgins, all the whole crew was drinking

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Speaker 2: with Karen Reid and John O'Keeffe the victim, and again,

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Speaker 2: our hearts are with his family. Let that not be

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Speaker 2: left out of this. Sometimes he just becomes a footnote, right,

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Speaker 2: It's like shocking. But all that to be said, they

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Speaker 2: literally have them at the bar, and there is these

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Speaker 2: interesting intersections between this Brian Higgins, who was having these

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Speaker 2: you know, text exchanges, et cetera with Karen Reid that

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Speaker 2: were sexy, and John O'Keefe they were like squaring off.

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Speaker 2: You could see and look they are either you know,

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Speaker 2: it's Boston, you know they're all I'm from Long Island.

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Speaker 2: I can say this. You know, it's to make us tumble,

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Speaker 2: you know, a little russell could break out over salami,

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Speaker 2: you know. So does it look like they were contentious?

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Speaker 2: Who knows, But it did look like they'd been boozing

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Speaker 2: and there was some friction in the air. And maybe

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Speaker 2: more importantly, this was about an hour before the alleged accident. Literally,

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Speaker 2: John O'Keefe is like being very loving with Karen Reid.

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Speaker 2: They didn't look like they were arch enemies. And that's

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Speaker 2: the story that law enforcement is saying, is that Karen

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Speaker 2: Reid and her you know then boyfriend were like contentious

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Speaker 2: and they were having a fight that night. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't totally appear that way on that footage.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And just as to catch anyone up who's not

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Speaker 4: totally conversant in this, Karen Reid has been accused of

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Speaker 4: hitting her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe with her SUV,

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Speaker 4: and this happened after the night of drinking we were

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Speaker 4: just talking about. The allegation is she backed up over

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Speaker 4: him with her SUV. She left him outside in the

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Speaker 4: snow to die. Her defense says she is being framed

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Speaker 4: by the Norfolk. Excuse me, my Northeast accent comes out

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Speaker 4: when I think about this case Norfolk County law enforcement.

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Speaker 4: And the allegation of the defense is again that she

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Speaker 4: went into this house instead of being left at the

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Speaker 4: bottom of the driveway, walked up to the house, an

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Speaker 4: altercation happened, potentially Chloe the dog was involved, and here

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Speaker 4: we stand, Wow, what else happened? Well, the testimony of

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Speaker 4: doctor Marie Russell happened. And this was yesterday because today

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Speaker 4: there was no trial. It was too hot in the courtroom,

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Speaker 4: So no court today, but lots of hot testimony in

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Speaker 4: the days preceding it. So doctor Russell, she is a

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Speaker 4: former Massachusetts officer and a professor at USC with ps

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Speaker 4: almost thirty years of experience in the er. So this

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Speaker 4: is the expert on the dog bites. And she says

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Speaker 4: that the wounds on victim John O'Keefe's right arm were

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Speaker 4: from quote, multiple strikes from a dog and that his

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Speaker 4: injuries were the result of dog bites or claw marks.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, where is the dog, Oh.

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Speaker 4: Chloe, the German shepherd? Where's Chloe? Chloe is up in Vermont,

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Speaker 4: last I've read, and was rehomed after this incident, And

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Speaker 4: I do you guys know when, Like, I want to

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Speaker 4: know if it was the next day, a month, after

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Speaker 4: two months, if anyone knows, give us a call eight

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Speaker 4: at eight three one a crime because I want that

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Speaker 4: very specific timeline and I haven't been able to find it.

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Speaker 2: But doesn't that seem that to me alone is so odd.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to say suspicious, because again, alleged, alleged, alleged,

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Speaker 2: But ultimately, you know, we're talking about a group of

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Speaker 2: friends that have all worked together in law enforcement, you know,

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Speaker 2: thickest thieves. Dare I say? And Karen was like legit,

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Speaker 2: the girlfriend outsider who apparently was sexy texting with you know,

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Speaker 2: most of them at some point, and like, look, the

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Speaker 2: lead investigator got tossed out because within sixteen hours of

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Speaker 2: him being assigned the case of Karen Reid, the lead investigator, Proctor,

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Speaker 2: he was literally texting that she's a C word and

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Speaker 2: that you know, she should kill herself, like really inappropriate

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Speaker 2: text and also you know, commenting on how hot she

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Speaker 2: was and is, and you know it's also convoluted. How

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Speaker 2: could you possibly assume that there's some kind of a

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Speaker 2: valid investigation when all the players are doing naughty stuff.

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Speaker 3: And to do this in the investigation of a fellow cop.

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Speaker 3: That's so disrespectful, like they're investigating listen, I think cops

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Speaker 3: should give everybody the same respect. Of course, this is

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Speaker 3: a fallen brother right, like don't I don't want to

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Speaker 3: hear how they're a band of brothers or anymore. Like

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Speaker 3: after this investigation, I don't believe them. I just don't

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Speaker 3: believe them. But Boddy, that is actually absent everything else.

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Speaker 3: That's what really peaked my spidey sense that there was

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Speaker 3: something happening behind the scenes, because they I trust they

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Speaker 3: would have yeah, but douc Yeah, to just keep up

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Speaker 3: on doctor Russell. She continued by saying that if victim

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Speaker 3: John O'Keefe was hit by the SUV, she would have

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Speaker 3: thought that there were bone fractures or at a minimum

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Speaker 3: some more bruising. So that was her testimony. The prosecution

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Speaker 3: made a lot of hay and said she shouldn't be

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Speaker 3: an expert.

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Speaker 4: A thirty years as an er, she has seen multiple, multiple,

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Speaker 4: multiple injuries and I thought they're trying to get The

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Speaker 4: prosecution fell a little flat for me, saying you don't

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Speaker 4: belong here.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, I thought this was slightly interesting too.

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Speaker 2: The prosecution against Karen Reid is saying, oh, well, if

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Speaker 2: the dog bite thing was legit, there would be DNA

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Speaker 2: on his clothes or something, right, which is an interesting point. However,

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Speaker 2: that particular expert disagreed with that. And by the way,

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Speaker 2: they also allegedly found pig DNA on the clothes. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's what I thought.

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Speaker 3: I had asked that the other night, and it was

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Speaker 3: weird some kind of So what the theories online that

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Speaker 3: I'm hearing is that?

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Speaker 2: And I think this is silly.

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Speaker 3: But the dog, the German shepherd, had like a pig

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Speaker 3: ear like you know those chews that the dogs have, Yes,

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Speaker 3: and that's why they found pig.

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Speaker 2: D Oh that might track.

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Speaker 4: Actually, that could track.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: It's right. We should have Joseph Scott Morgan, let's get him,

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Speaker 2: kind of Joseph as our friend, let's get it. And

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Speaker 2: also the snowplow guy, right, the snowplow guy, that's a

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Speaker 2: big piece of this equation.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Brian, his name Brian, he goes by Lucky Lochrin.

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Speaker 4: He testified. I found him to be incredibly credible. So

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Speaker 4: he was driving a bloat a snowplow on this very

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Speaker 4: stormy night where John o'keats's death will call it occurred.

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Speaker 4: And he testified that he began his shift at two

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Speaker 4: thirty am and his plow has very bright lights for

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Speaker 4: anyone who lives in a cold place, you know that

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Speaker 4: they're so bright like it's a spotlight, and that he

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Speaker 4: did not see a six foot one, two hundred and

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Speaker 4: fifteen pound man when he was driving by. He then

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Speaker 4: also asserted that he saw what he called an out

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Speaker 4: of place ford Edge vehicle in the road at about

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Speaker 4: three point thirty when he came back to do his

400
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Speaker 4: second plow, and he made note of that. And then

401
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Speaker 4: when he came by at six fifteen for his third pass,

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Speaker 4: the road was blocked off by police.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, this is Symbo who knows the family.

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Speaker 2: So the house that they were at, like he knew

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Speaker 2: them really nicely. That's the Albert home. And you know

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Speaker 2: his job is to be looking for things in the

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Speaker 2: road during the snowstorm. You know, those trucks have huge

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Speaker 2: lights on it, right. His actual job is to make

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Speaker 2: sure he's not scooping up a raccoon or you know,

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Speaker 2: looking out for wildlife for other people's cars and does

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Speaker 2: this you know, route very often, So, yeah, that's a

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Speaker 2: curious piece of it, let alone the inverted footage of

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Speaker 2: the car, which is yeah, so basically the surveillance, the

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Speaker 2: footage within the precinct of the vehicle and the tail

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Speaker 2: light when presented it had been inverted. And this came

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Speaker 2: up in court as well, and it had been inverted,

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Speaker 2: which really does change the perspective of who was doing

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Speaker 2: what and like, how is that? Okay? Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't think it is. We're going to find out.

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Speaker 3: We're going to be continuing to follow the really tragic

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Speaker 3: story of Travis Decker, a father accused of killing his

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Speaker 3: three daughters last week and he's still on the run.

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Speaker 3: We're going to have mental health expert Laura Cheatham. She's

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Speaker 3: going to join us and talk about his diagnosed borderline

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Speaker 3: personality disorder. And then we're going to be hearing about

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Speaker 3: the latest feud in the Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni case.

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Speaker 3: Is Lively about to lose her bff? Stay right here

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Speaker 3: True Crime tonight.

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Speaker 2: You know, accused dad Javis Decker on the loose after

430
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: allegedly killing his three daughters, and he's apparently been diagnosed

431
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,440
Speaker 2: with bipolar disease, and you know, that's serious stuff, and

432
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: we're going to have an expert on to sort of

433
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: unpack that a little bit for us. But you know, body,

434
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: where should we start with this?

435
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so really quick, I just wanted to let everybody

436
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 3: know this is we're going to be having a discussion

437
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 3: about mental health struggles and like really horrific, horrible violence

438
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 3: against children, which many may find disturbing. You know, listener,

439
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 3: discretion is strongly advised. We care about you here at

440
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 3: True Crime tonight, and we want everybody to maintain their

441
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 3: mental health. So, yeah, this is very tragic and I'm

442
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: going to try to get through it as quickly as

443
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 3: possible because it is absolutely terrible. Former Army ranger. His

444
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: name is Travis Decker. He's a father. He picked up

445
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 3: his kids on Friday and he was supposed to return

446
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: them at nine pm. They are aged five, eight nine,

447
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 3: and they never returned and the mom called the police.

448
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 3: She kind of wanted an amber alert issued, but you know,

449
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 3: it didn't meet the criteria for an Amber alert because

450
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 3: there wasn't necessarily an abduction. So there's a whole conversation

451
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 3: to be had about, you know, the amber alert criteria.

452
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 3: Which we're not going to get into right now, but

453
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 3: that's a whole nother separate conversation we really should. Yeah,

454
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 3: So then you know, they issued an endangered child alert

455
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 3: and a man hunt began for these children. They found

456
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 3: his truck in like a at a campground, and nearby

457
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 3: the truck they found the three little girls. And I

458
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 3: don't want to get into any worry details, but it's

459
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: pretty horrific. And so now Travis da is on the run,

460
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 3: apparently on foot. And the thing to know about Travis

461
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,440
Speaker 3: Decker is that he's still on the run and he's

462
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 3: you know, been trained in like mountain survival, so he

463
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 3: has the ability to possibly survive in the wilderness. And

464
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 3: the area of Washington in which all this occurred is

465
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,640
Speaker 3: pretty rural, and I mean it's quite beautiful and stunning,

466
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 3: you know. It pictured like the rolling hills, mountains and

467
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: pine trees everywhere. It's just breathtaking. He could be literally anywhere.

468
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,160
Speaker 3: There was a report yesterday that he might have been

469
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 3: seen in Idaho, and authorities have come out and said

470
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,200
Speaker 3: that that has actually not been substantiated in any way,

471
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 3: something that we reported on last night. So they're still

472
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: kind of looking in the area that he was last seen,

473
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 3: and in fact, they've closed that area so that they

474
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 3: can search it extensively. So please google, you know, Travis Decker,

475
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: get his image in your head and be on the

476
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 3: lookout for him. He was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder

477
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 3: and that's something that we're going to be talking about

478
00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 3: later on in the segment. But you know, he his wife,

479
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 3: his ex wife, actually said that he had stopped taking

480
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 3: his medication and that this could be some sort of

481
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 3: psychosis event that's happened. And you know, our heart just

482
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 3: goes out to this mom. She's lost her entire world.

483
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: Right, honestly, we should all just like mentally throw her

484
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: so much.

485
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 3: Love, oh collectively. You know, she has a GoFundMe which

486
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:27,360
Speaker 3: I would love to promote. So please go and look

487
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: for her GoFundMe and help her in any way that

488
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 3: you can.

489
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 4: Absolutely, But now, Stephanie, uh, do we have our guest?

490
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know. In fact, you know, listen, this story

491
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 2: is such a dark one, so is there something that

492
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 2: can be gleaned from it? Right? So mental health that's

493
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 2: at the core of this. A sane person does not

494
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 2: do this, right, Somebody who's not really having a mental break,

495
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 2: I would assume. So, you know, we thought we would

496
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 2: bring on really the best of the best in terms

497
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: of experts. So we're joined by John Jay College of

498
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 2: Criminal Justice, Psychology professor and licensed mental health health counselor

499
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 2: and trauma specialist, Laura Cheatham. Laura, can you hear us?

500
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 6: Hi?

501
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 7: Yes?

502
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 6: Hi, Laura, Thanks so much for having me on.

503
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for joining us. You know, listen, we

504
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 2: know this is a very grizzly tale, and again, you know,

505
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 2: what can we what can we glean from this, right,

506
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: because it seems as though, I mean, look, these types

507
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 2: of crimes, you know, killing your own kids, there has

508
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: to be some sort of mental psychosis happening. I would

509
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 2: assume he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, as you know

510
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: his mom online personality I'm sorry, a borderline personality disorder.

511
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 2: And you know mom had raised the flag beforehand and

512
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 2: wasn't really comfortable with sending the kids. But again, you know,

513
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 2: it's it's complicated stuff.

514
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 6: Right, and I'm so glad to be able to have

515
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 6: a chance to get into all of this as we

516
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 6: talk about it. And I mean, first of all, I

517
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 6: just want to say my condolences to the family, the

518
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,959
Speaker 6: mother of the children. I mean, I imagine that the public

519
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 6: as well as having their own kind of vicarious trauma

520
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 6: reaction as well, kind of trying to grasp for some

521
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 6: kind of understanding. I mean, this is unimaginable, what an

522
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,560
Speaker 6: incredibly awful thing to happen, right.

523
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 2: It's too much, It's just unfair beyond measure.

524
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what is borderline personality disorder? How does somebody

525
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: get diagnosed?

526
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 2: Like? Are there symptoms that people should be aware of?

527
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 6: Sure? So, I mean I guess the first thing is

528
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 6: to really break down like our understanding of like the

529
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 6: difference between a personality disorder and another type of disorder,

530
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 6: something like depression or anxiety. So our personality is pretty set,

531
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 6: you know, if you imagine it almost is like snowball,

532
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 6: you're packing in snow. At the beginning, this would be

533
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 6: like a young person, a child. You can't really diagnose

534
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 6: with a personality disorder just yet, they're still developing. But

535
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 6: over time you pack in more snow, it gets in

536
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 6: it's more set. So as we get older, we have

537
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 6: our personalities pretty established. So something like borderline personality disorder

538
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 6: isn't something that would come out of just nowhere. Studies.

539
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 6: Endless research shows that this particular diagnosis is something that

540
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 6: comes in the aftermath of trauma, typically sexual abuse, physical abuse,

541
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 6: childhood abandonment, other personality disorders. There might be more biological origin,

542
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 6: a combination of that and experiences. What we do know

543
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:40,200
Speaker 6: about BPD is that there is a history of trauma, undoubtedly.

544
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 3: So well, he was an army ranger, and is my

545
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 3: understanding he did see combat, So is it possible it

546
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 3: came from that kind of situation.

547
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 6: So my thinking is by then he would have already

548
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 6: been nineteen twenty results, So I would imagine because it

549
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 6: sounded like he was involved in of combat, that there

550
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 6: was some kind of exacerbation. And so if we kind

551
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 6: of zoom out on this case, I'm I'm really thinking

552
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 6: borderline is likely. In the soup. People are really wanting

553
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 6: to point to something to get an understanding, right, Well,

554
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 6: these kinds of cases are just so incredibly complex that

555
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 6: to point to just one thing is just not going

556
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 6: to be able to get us there.

557
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 2: I think that's even really fair thing.

558
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 3: I think that's completely for people that are on medication.

559
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 3: You know, I have a great friend Haines. She's a

560
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 3: wonderful person and she stays on medication and she's perfectly normal.

561
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 3: Like I hate, I hate to use the word normal

562
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 3: because it's not. I'm not an ablest, but you wouldn't know.

563
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 3: She's completely you know, productive in every way possible. But

564
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: if you go off the medication, this kind of thing

565
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 3: can happen, right, Like, it can kind of take over.

566
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 6: Right Yeah, I mean we probably know people with borderline.

567
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 6: They're in our lives, we have with there are in

568
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 6: our communities. The medication piece I'll get to in a bit,

569
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 6: but to give a little background, you asked about symptoms.

570
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 6: The primary thing is, uh, you're going to see instability,

571
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 6: and I think, uh, unfortunately, what we see a lot

572
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 6: in the rhetoric around talking about borderline is it it

573
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 6: gets kind of thrown around as like a really stigmatizing term,

574
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 6: almost like a synonym for crazy, and it's really unfair

575
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 6: and it takes away I think also from really being

576
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 6: able to understand like, uh, this is a complex disorder

577
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 6: that when we talk about trauma that of course evokes

578
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 6: like compassion from people, But for some reason, when we

579
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 6: use this word borderline, uh, it starts to change the

580
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 6: way the narrative goes and part of the reason for

581
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 6: that is because it can be really difficult to have

582
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 6: relationships with people with this diagnosis because of the symptoms.

583
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 6: It's really marked by a sense of instability. You'll see

584
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:14,719
Speaker 6: volatile emotional swings, very quick changes in how they see themselves,

585
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 6: how they see others, and it can be really startling

586
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 6: and frightening for them as well. That they often complain

587
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 6: about that volatility. It's uncomfortable, would be putting it lightly.

588
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 4: Well, Listen, this has been so enlightening, Laura. We want

589
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 4: to thank you so much for joining us, for shedding

590
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 4: a light and giving us a little bit further of

591
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:45,360
Speaker 4: an understanding of borderline personality disorder. It is very misunderstood,

592
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 4: so we're so grateful to you. And just as a reminder,

593
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 4: Laura is a licensed mental health counselor. If you'd like

594
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 4: to contact her, her website is Laura Chatham LMHC dot com.

595
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 4: And we want to hear your thoughts about tonight's stories.

596
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 4: Give us a call eight to a three one crime

597
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 4: so in the Luigi Mangione case, and as a reminder,

598
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 4: he is going to be on trial for shooting CEO

599
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 4: Brian Thompson, the head of United Healthcare, so brand new update.

600
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 4: New details from his alleged manifesto are revealed. Maesto, Yes, prosecutors,

601
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 4: they just released new excerpts and according to the filing,

602
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 4: Mangione's diary entries, they chronicled months of planning. They chronicled

603
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 4: that he also surveilled Thompson near the Midtown hotel where

604
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 4: he was gone down. And that has been a little

605
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 4: bit put together with certain pieces we've been getting that

606
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 4: he was in New York and manngeone was around the area.

607
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 4: But the recent revelation August fifteenth, twenty twenty four, mangones

608
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 4: entry read quote, I finally feel confident about what I

609
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: will do. The details are coming together and I don't

610
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 4: feel any doubt about whether it's right slash justified. I'm

611
00:34:03,520 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 4: glad in a way that I've procrastinated because it allowed

612
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 4: me to learn more about UHC, which stands for United

613
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: Healthcare M what ends No, it's crazy. And then just

614
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 4: one more piece of information coming out. It alleges that

615
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 4: Manjun was considering another target at first, but then chose

616
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 4: the health insurance industry and landed on quote the target

617
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 4: is insurance period. It checks every box.

618
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: Do we know what the other target?

619
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 5: Was.

620
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 2: I'm so curious too. I don't know either, not that

621
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 2: I've seen.

622
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 4: No, this is it's unbelievable, and it does this put

623
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:45,879
Speaker 4: into potentially new light what was going on in Manjuin's brain.

624
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:46,439
Speaker 4: Me too.

625
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 3: I kind of feel like he was looking for a cause, right,

626
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,319
Speaker 3: like if he was looking at another sector, maybe like

627
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 3: another controversial American target, like you know, all Americans are

628
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 3: like my health insurance sucks, Like you know what I mean,

629
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 3: is there another villain that, you know, an American villain,

630
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 3: let's say, right that he was looking at.

631
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm curious, like why this particular insurance company,

632
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 2: Like why this particular target, Like he didn't really have

633
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 2: an association with.

634
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 3: It, he didn't, but there they are the largest healthcare

635
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: provider in the United States, right, That's why. So I'm

636
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 3: just kind of wondering, like, was he looking to be

637
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 3: kind of like the martyr for the American people of

638
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 3: a cause that they're you know, struggling against and if

639
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 3: and if so, what was the other target?

640
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 8: I know?

641
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 4: I mean just the target is insurance, period. It checks

642
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 4: every box. I think it feeds into what you're saying,

643
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 4: body that you know, he wanted to potentially be some

644
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 4: sort of martyr versus an organic and organically grown you know,

645
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 4: hatred or vendetta against health insurance.

646
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 2: But it's a little bit so confusing, and I guess

647
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 2: I wish we could have doctor Laura Chiaton back on,

648
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: because I would have to speaks to mental health again.

649
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 2: Who writes this in a notebook the way he's been doing,

650
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: you know, like again, this is not particularly clever if

651
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 2: you're going to commit a major crime and then carry

652
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 2: it with you and carry it with you in a

653
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 2: backpack in your little notebook. And also, this is a

654
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,960
Speaker 2: person that comes from privilege, has a great education, do

655
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 2: something great with it, change the world. Listen, I don't

656
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 2: get me on a soapbox here, but we're going to

657
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: come right back. I promise we're going to be talking

658
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 2: about Justin Valdoni and the latest developments with Blake Lively.

659
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: This is true crime tonight. We talk true crime all

660
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:46,280
Speaker 2: the time. Listen. We've been talking about such heavy stuff

661
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: that a little bit of a palette cleanse to hear

662
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 2: about Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni and the saga between

663
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 2: them that never seems to end. There have been some

664
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: new developments, if you haven't been playing along with this case.

665
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: You know Blake, she's that beautiful actress from from The

666
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 2: Gossip Girl, which I was such a huge fan of.

667
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,160
Speaker 2: Generally speaking, I've always been her fan, biggest Oh I.

668
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 4: Love goss I actually just recently rewatched it, probably last year.

669
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 4: The whole thing, soup to nuts.

670
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,080
Speaker 2: Soup to nuts so good. And then I am the outsider.

671
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 2: I have money. I know, I don't even know how.

672
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 2: We're friends. We're gonna help to do a full We're

673
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: going to do a full bench. It's really good and

674
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 2: she's great in it, and I've always been a fan.

675
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 2: And she's married to of course Ryan Reynolds, the very

676
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 2: famous superstar from you know, Deathpool and so many great movies.

677
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 2: So they're listen, Hollywood elite, even though they're New Yorkers,

678
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: but you know, this is the upper echelon of greatness.

679
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: And basically Blake live. He stars in a movie called

680
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,360
Speaker 2: It's It Ends with Us and it's based on a

681
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,240
Speaker 2: really really wonderful book series that really looks out domestic violence.

682
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 2: And Justin BALTONI was the director of this film and

683
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 2: also his company made the film, right, so they purchased

684
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 2: the book. They got the rights to the book. It

685
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: ends with us. This they attached Blake Lively. All is

686
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: good in the hood, but apparently it got a little

687
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 2: weird on set, and there's very opposing reasons as to why.

688
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: Allegedly Blake Lively files a complaint with the studio basically

689
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 2: saying that she felt like it was a hostile work

690
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 2: environment and accuses Justin Baldoni of sexual harassment, which is,

691
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 2: you know, again a big deal. She's claiming masters boundaries

692
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:36,280
Speaker 2: were violated. And then this you know, movie comes out,

693
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: and apparently she felt as though she was getting bad

694
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 2: press and you know, online and she was pushing a

695
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,640
Speaker 2: few different products and apparently, you know, social media was

696
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 2: backlashing or being rude to her, and she felt it

697
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 2: was a smear campaign from a pr agency hired by

698
00:38:56,080 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: director Justin Baldoni to make her look bad as a

699
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: retaliation to the sexual harassment complaint. So there, that's the

700
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: that's the state, that's the processes where it all starts, right,

701
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 2: and then he counter sues for four hundred million dollars.

702
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 2: Fun fact, you know, Justin Baldoni's business partner is like

703
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: a billionaire. You know, they have unlimited resources and you know,

704
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 2: the words like smear campaign come into play, and and

705
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: by the way, we should unpack that too, because the

706
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,399
Speaker 2: pr firms it was pretty messy by all accounts. So

707
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 2: this lawsuit goes back and forth, and it's really now

708
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: gotten to a fever pitch where jobs are getting lost.

709
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 2: We're being you know, hearing reports at Ryan Reynolds' next film,

710
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: the date for it pushed maybe in the wake of

711
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 2: all of this controversy, because what Baldoni's side is saying,

712
00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: he's the director. He's saying that basically Blake Lively went

713
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 2: in there with the intention of taking over the movie,

714
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 2: and that she was totally a nightmare on set and

715
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 2: took over all the wardrobe, had like last minute script

716
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: changes to the bitter end, and was sort of kind

717
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 2: of peer pressuring him into basically doing it her way,

718
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: and that he claims these sexual harassment charges were an

719
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: attempt to basically get back the rights to the book series.

720
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 2: So basically it ends with us two would be under

721
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 2: Ryan and Blake, not just on Baldoni and his partner

722
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 2: at Wayfair Studio. Are you with me? Does that all track? Yes? Yes,

723
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 2: I'm following.

724
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, they both are alleging you said smear campaign, which

725
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 4: is a big phrase in this because both sides are alleging,

726
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 4: which is so interesting and Baldoni's what has come out

727
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 4: from Baldoni's side, it feels like a lot of proof

728
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,319
Speaker 4: and stuff that's come out in court papers that the

729
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 4: PR management team was indeed willfully trying to smear Blake Lively's.

730
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: Oh really, so that's absolutely and like listen some of

731
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 2: the sexual harassment charges And this is where I get

732
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 2: a little triggered from this story, because like listen, these

733
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 2: are real allegations, right, we talk about this very serious time.

734
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,480
Speaker 2: If you're putting out a false accusation, you know, if

735
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 2: in fact it is, then you know, what does that

736
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 2: do to the next woman in line or the next

737
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 2: man in line who's filing the wait trum point?

738
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 3: Right, nobody cares does have the attention that Blake Lily has, right, correct,

739
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 3: And some of her big ticket items for this said

740
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 3: harassment and hostile work environment, where like, for example, one

741
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: time she was she had just had a baby and

742
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 3: her you know, she was breastfeeding in her trailer and

743
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,239
Speaker 3: according to her, Justin Baldoni kind of barged into the

744
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,239
Speaker 3: trailer while she was breastfeeding and she felt like that

745
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 3: was incredibly inappropriate because she was, you know, not fully robed.

746
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 2: And then he's released the text messages which is basically

747
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 2: her saying, Hey, I'm in my trailer breastfeeding, come in anytime.

748
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,720
Speaker 2: So is that a total contradiction, right? Or another example

749
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 2: would be she claimed that some of their like intimacy

750
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: and sex scenes, I guess typically you would have kind

751
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 2: of like an instructor on set to coordinator, Yes, an

752
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 2: intimacy coordinator, and she claims that like they didn't do that.

753
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,280
Speaker 2: They didn't have this said coordinator, and therefore it felt

754
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: like he really came on a little bit hard and

755
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 2: she felt uncomfortable. But again, and they have these text

756
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: exchanges of Justin Baldoni saying to her time and time again,

757
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 2: hey I really want to hook you up with the

758
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:37,720
Speaker 2: intimacy coordinator and that she basically like, let that lie,

759
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 2: and it never really happened, And there does appear to

760
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: be this back and forth, and there does appear to

761
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 2: be some some ickiness with the PR firms again, like

762
00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: they're not the PR firm, right, but they hired the

763
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 2: PR firm, And then that's a whole other backstory of messiness.

764
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: So today some of the charges from Blake Lively were dropped,

765
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 2: which is sort of this emotional allegation. Yeah, and I

766
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 2: mean it's all spiraling. It's like it seems as though

767
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 2: it was the attempt. This is what's being alleged that

768
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,280
Speaker 2: she was trying to take this book series over, figured

769
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 2: this sexual harassment suit would get big press, that would

770
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,400
Speaker 2: be the end of it, because Justin Baldoni was kind

771
00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 2: of a nobody comparatively speaking. And now it's really like

772
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 2: snowballed to nauseum and now no one can get out

773
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: of it alive. Period.

774
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 4: It's a mess. So Taylor Swift, Stephanie, I've been a

775
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 4: little bit dying to talk.

776
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 2: They're like all buds. You guys might have heard of

777
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 2: this already, but you know, this is like the finest

778
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 2: New York City crew. It's like the Gossip Girl. In

779
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 2: my head, I feel like we're supposed to go to

780
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: dinner with the DG hadd and Taylor Swift and Blake

781
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 2: Lively and the three of us tagging along. It seemed

782
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: like they had this like very cool thing happening. And

783
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 2: and by the way, Taylor Swift died the theme song

784
00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: for the movie, which is a great song. I don't

785
00:43:57,880 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: know wh I'm forgetting the name of it, but it's

786
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: really very very good. And allegedly Taylor Swift rolled into

787
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,320
Speaker 2: Blake Lively's apartment with Rian and Justin Baldoni. Was invited

788
00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,839
Speaker 2: over to talk about the script because Blake Lively had

789
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: some big ideas about how to change the script, and

790
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 2: he claims that Ryan Reynolds and Taylor Swift kind of

791
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 2: like bullied him into agreeing with these said changes. Right,

792
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 2: so kind of gross, right, that's not ideal?

793
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 4: Well, she also yeah, they also have that text where

794
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 4: Blake writes to Baldoni basically, you should really really listen

795
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 4: to my ideas because I have my dragons, and she's

796
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 4: evoking great Game of Thrones and her dragons are her

797
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 4: powerhouse husband Ryan Reynolds and her bff Taylor Swift. And

798
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 4: that was more not so much anymore.

799
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: Because she kind of retaliated. Taylor Swift was like, uh,

800
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 2: that's not I have no idea what she's talking about.

801
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 2: I lose my number. But they're like incredibly close, isn't

802
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,439
Speaker 2: she like the gods? Moo, she's the godmother of all

803
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 2: of Again, we don't know these people, but yeah, all

804
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: four of their children. Taylor Swift is the godmother too,

805
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 2: so this is a very close relationship. And apparently Taylor

806
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 2: Swift apparently got roped into this, and Baldoni's lawyers are

807
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 2: saying that Taylor Swift has to hand over text messages,

808
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,480
Speaker 2: like ten years worth of text messages that Blake Lively

809
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 2: threatened that she would share to the public if Taylor

810
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: didn't put out like something positive about Blake in the

811
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: in the public, in the social media, and it didn't

812
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: go over very well, know, Taylor is like, no more,

813
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 2: no more, no more.

814
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 4: Her team's response was kind of brilliant. I won't do

815
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,440
Speaker 4: it ver vatim, but you know, they let it be

816
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 4: known clearly, Taylor Swift has never set foot on the

817
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 4: set of the movie. She wasn't involved in any creative decision,

818
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 4: shouldn't even see it until weeks after the public release

819
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 4: because she was traveling on the globe doing the biggest

820
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 4: tour in history.

821
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 3: The eras that she's been delevanting across the globe for yours.

822
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,320
Speaker 2: I mean, has anybody ever been on tours I went to.

823
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:20,239
Speaker 2: It was fantastic, it was amazing, It was amazing, but

824
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,319
Speaker 2: here's the thing, Like, now she Taylor, I mean, uh,

825
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 2: Jake uh. Justin Baldoni is saying, ooh, dial us in

826
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: coach because we are a never ending fight, like they

827
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: are playing real and hard and tough and there's real

828
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,359
Speaker 2: money on the line at this point. And now Blake

829
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: Lively has dropped the claims of emotional distress air quotes

830
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,880
Speaker 2: that was in her initial claim. And you know, maybe

831
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: more significantly, this is really a look at like reputational warfare, right,

832
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 2: It's a it's reputation versus reputation. Also law fair, right,

833
00:46:58,360 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 2: because Blake Lively.

834
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 3: Started all this, right, yeah, And now now I feel like,

835
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 3: and listen, I'm not following this.

836
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 2: I'm learning this. You are now, guys real time.

837
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 3: And so no, I'm like interested, right, it's law fair,

838
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 3: and she is probably her back is against the wall.

839
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 3: She realizes he's not rolling over and he's countersuing. Now yep,

840
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 3: and her back's against the wall, and she's probably she's

841
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 3: I feel like she's in the wrong.

842
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,959
Speaker 2: No, I know, and I love her too. I'm a fan,

843
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: I should say, I don't know her, but I'm like disappointed.

844
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 2: I'm disappointed by all of it. It's like nobody wins

845
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 2: in this. No, but it's tough.

846
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 4: Even Stephanie, you had mentioned the quote breastfeeding inaccuracies in

847
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 4: terms of her saying it's totally inappropriate to walk in unannounced.

848
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 4: I think everyone could agree with that one hundred percent.

849
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 4: That's fact, and then also a fact that she said, no, oh,

850
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 4: I'm breastfeeding, come in. But I don't know is it circumstantial.

851
00:47:54,040 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 4: It's like, just because you a woman quote says yes

852
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 4: once doesn't mean it's yes.

853
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 2: Fat It's such a good point. And did she fear

854
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 2: for her safety? And like some of the rumors are

855
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 2: like maybe Ryan, her husband, came to set and saw,

856
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: you know, some chemistry between them, and then that got

857
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,840
Speaker 2: him a flutter and then he's the one that was

858
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 2: escalating it, and that seems to be sort of the

859
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: rumor mill as well. So like even now our beloved

860
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 2: Ryan Reynolds is being roped into this, say it's not

861
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 2: so bigger and messier in one last order of business,

862
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 2: and then I promise to pass the baton. We're here

863
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: Sunday through Thursday, so two hours live every night and

864
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 2: Sunday we're doing a real deep dive on all of

865
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,759
Speaker 2: the cases. We've been talking about so far, including the

866
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 2: Long Island serial killer, and of course a little bit

867
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: more on Luigi manifestos, et cetera. So, but first this,

868
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: you know, Blue Barrel Killer. Yeah, record, So it's terrible.

869
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 3: So his name is Timothy Haslett Junior, and he lives

870
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 3: in Excelsior Springs, Missouri. He is a waiting trial for

871
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 3: the murder of one woman and the kidnapping and rape

872
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 3: of of course the woman he murdered and a woman

873
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,919
Speaker 3: that escaped. And this is where we kind of learn

874
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,120
Speaker 3: about him. Is this through this escape. It's very harrowing.

875
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 3: So back in twenty twenty two, in October of twenty two,

876
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 3: it's late, you know, late fall. A woman is knocking

877
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 3: on a door feverishly helped me, help me, help me.

878
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 3: The residents open the door and there's a woman standing

879
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: there with a metal collar over her neck and kind

880
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 3: of like wearing this black sort of like garbage bag

881
00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 3: kind of outfit, and she tells a harrowing tale that

882
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 3: she has been living in a dungeon of this home,

883
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 3: being kidnapped by this guy and he's been trigger warning,

884
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 3: by the way, massive trigger warning here it is, I mean,

885
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 3: countdown here, to five four through two who won. He

886
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:06,479
Speaker 3: has been raping her and withholding food and drugging her

887
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:12,759
Speaker 3: and torturing her with all kinds of implements. Well, so

888
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 3: they go to the house. She, by the way, escaped

889
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 3: this dungeon because Timothy haslet Junior, who's the man accused

890
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 3: of kidnapping her and doing all this to her, has

891
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 3: to take his son to school, his young.

892
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 2: Son who's living in the house. Yes, who's living in

893
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:28,240
Speaker 2: the home.

894
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 4: While the torture is going on downstairs in the dungeon.

895
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,640
Speaker 2: Correct, who is this monster?

896
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 4: Right?

897
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 3: Well, and that's the thing, this is why it's kind

898
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 3: of on our radar, is that this is potentially a

899
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 3: serial killer because she tells the story that when she

900
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 3: arrived in this dungeon there was another woman. She said,

901
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 3: he has my friend too, she called, she said, my friend.

902
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 3: While we learn that this woman has been identified, they

903
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 3: found her body in a blue barrel in a in

904
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 3: kind of like a Marshy River kind of area near

905
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 3: Excelsior Springs, Missouri. She her name was I'm sorry, her

906
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 3: name was uh sitting Janie, Janie cross Ail. That's the

907
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 3: woman that was found in the barrel, and the barrel

908
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 3: has been forensically connected to Timothy Haslett. So they they

909
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 3: have indicted him. There was a preliminary hearing like everything.

910
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 3: He has been indicted for this murder, and they suspect

911
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 3: that it's possible there's other victims. Now, if there is

912
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 3: other victims, and of course we have bigger problems with

913
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 3: Timothy Haslett Junior. But yeah, it's very scary. He he's

914
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 3: been indicted. He was indicted in July of twenty twenty four,

915
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 3: and his trial is supposed to begin in December. So

916
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 3: this is something that we're going to be talking about

917
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:54,239
Speaker 3: a lot because I'm following it like a hawk. I've

918
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,480
Speaker 3: already signed up for like all the Missouri case Net updates.

919
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 3: I get them every day. I know it's exactly what's

920
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 3: happening in the case. Wow, because this is like something

921
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 3: that's on my radar. And so I mean, just imagine.

922
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 2: This woman not knowing you. Would you ever? So here's

923
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 2: a really here's a question for you all. Please call

924
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 2: us at eight eight eight three one crime because it's

925
00:52:15,719 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: I'm so divided on this. If somebody knocks on your door,

926
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 2: bangs on your door in the wee hours and is

927
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 2: wearing a thing around their neck and a garbage bag

928
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:28,000
Speaker 2: and they're like help help. We equally hear stories of

929
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,879
Speaker 2: you should never open your door to or stranger ever.

930
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,720
Speaker 2: And is that the answer because in this case, thank god,

931
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 2: this neighbor actually answered the door that saved her life.

932
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 3: Right, I don't know, man, I'm a girls girl. I

933
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 3: am one hundred percent of girls girl. I would like

934
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 3: to think that I would, but I mean I have

935
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 3: seen so many like alerts, like don't answer the door

936
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 3: because these people are pretending to be salesmen or whatever,

937
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 3: and they're gonna they're gonna gangbusters you and like come

938
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 3: into your house and you know, kill you. And so

939
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,120
Speaker 3: I'm terrified of even looking to see who's at my door.

940
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 3: So I feel like it's you have to keep yourself

941
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 3: like not put yourself in danger, but also to maybe

942
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 3: alert the authorities. Is I don't know if that's my

943
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 3: best guess.

944
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, just call and of course, and I mean if

945
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 4: raised a racket, but yeah, it's it's a conundrum. Now.

946
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 4: Body when the other woman who tragically said was referred

947
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 4: to as her friend, which breaks my heart in a

948
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 4: real specific way, when she was found in the barrel,

949
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 4: did has that did they excuse me, Did they accused

950
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 4: also have similar barrels on his home? Is that the link?

951
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a blue barrel visioning, So yeah, like I

952
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 2: don't even know what I'm picturing. Something from the Western Yeah,

953
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 2: those oil barrels exactly.

954
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,759
Speaker 4: That's right. And then and Timothy has a yeah, I'm

955
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 4: just double checking myself, and he did. He had right,

956
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:05,360
Speaker 4: similar barrels at us home at his home, so that

957
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 4: it's right.

958
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 2: So they thinked to know more about his background too, well, well,

959
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,520
Speaker 2: he his mainly his history of legal issues are like

960
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 2: traffic violations, they're not really you know out, they're not

961
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 2: really crazy.

962
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 3: He was married, obviously, he has a son. He was

963
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:25,319
Speaker 3: divorced in twenty fifteen, so he was married for quite

964
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 3: some time. He maintains joint legal well, he maintained joint

965
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,520
Speaker 3: legal custody of his son and became the primary custodial parents.

966
00:54:33,239 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 3: So at some point he was the upstanding parent that

967
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 3: took care of this little son.

968
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: This poor child, if that was the case.

969
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:44,840
Speaker 3: And now wow, right, and he it and you know,

970
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 3: much like a lot of other killers, you know, he

971
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 3: preyed on sex workers, right, you know, and I'm not

972
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,640
Speaker 3: here to shame them. Sex worker is work of course,

973
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 3: be you know okay with that? And you know the victim,

974
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 3: by the way, we don't know her name. She he

975
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 3: has been protected. Her identity has been protected because you

976
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:05,759
Speaker 3: know she's we do know that she is struggling.

977
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 2: I got has she happy? This is such a harrowing event,

978
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,919
Speaker 2: and you know you brought up the serial killer part

979
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 2: of it, which you know, I think we're all slightly

980
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 2: oddly fascinated and curious about serial killers in general. So

981
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 2: the criteria for that is it has to be more

982
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 2: than two people, right, so we're looking at three, and

983
00:55:25,880 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 2: there has to be this what is a very scary idea,

984
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: this cool down period.

985
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 3: This off, this cooling off period. Now she tested well,

986
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 3: she told police. The victim, the twenty two year old

987
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,760
Speaker 3: who ran out of the home. She tells the story

988
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 3: that Timothy Haslett Junior confessed to her as he's torturing her,

989
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 3: like you know, if you don't do what I say,

990
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 3: You're going to end up like the two other women

991
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 3: I've killed. So we know about we know about the

992
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 3: blue the woman in the blue barrel who's already been

993
00:55:56,520 --> 00:56:01,240
Speaker 3: identified and linked to him. And who's this other girl

994
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 3: who's this other woman. We don't know, and they haven't

995
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 3: found anything yet, but I suspect that they're looking.

996
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 4: Wow, I'm sure they are. I think we should just

997
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 4: take a really quick moment to honor the victim, Janie Crosdale,

998
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 4: who was found in the barrel, because so often victims

999
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 4: do get lost, and it sounds like she was just lovely.

1000
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 4: Family and friends just say she was bright and witty,

1001
00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 4: full of life, and yeah, she did face some challenges,

1002
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 4: but she was a lovely human being.

1003
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 3: So right, she was like really involved with this Relentless

1004
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 3: Pursuit Outreach and Recovery, which is an organization that support

1005
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 3: individuals facing these kinds of challenges like addiction and homelessness.

1006
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 3: And you know a lot of people when they're facing

1007
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,919
Speaker 3: these kinds of things, they'll turn to sex work because

1008
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 3: it's quick money, right.

1009
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And so she always don't have options, right, And

1010
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,320
Speaker 2: so she was a woman that was trying to help

1011
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 2: other women get out of this lifestyle.

1012
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 3: And into you know, a more healthy arena. And you

1013
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 3: know her, she ends up a victim of this monster

1014
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,239
Speaker 3: that is potentially a serial killer. He's not right now,

1015
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,080
Speaker 3: he's just accused of one murder, but of course there's

1016
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 3: one murder, two kidnappings, two torturing. You know, there's because

1017
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 3: we have Jamie, who's you know, obviously a victim. He's

1018
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 3: ended up in the blue barrel. But yeah, I just

1019
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 3: it's it's heartbreaking. And you know what's even more heartbreaking

1020
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 3: is there there's a reverend in Saint Louis who was

1021
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 3: kind of ringing the alarm bells to this and was

1022
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 3: kind of getting annoyed.

1023
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 2: And his name escapes me.

1024
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 3: Now I'll have to look it up and get back

1025
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 3: to you on this, And he was kind of getting

1026
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 3: annored because what he said, and I kind of, you know,

1027
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 3: believe him. He was saying that they were just young black,

1028
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 3: young woman prostitutes that nobody cared about. And it's heartbreaking.

1029
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:50,680
Speaker 3: That's about worse.

1030
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 2: And by the way, we hear this a lot, except

1031
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: for a Long Island because those Long Island you know,

1032
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,440
Speaker 2: sex workers that were allegedly killed by the Long Island

1033
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 2: serial killer, they were so loved that those moms of

1034
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 2: those sex workers at the time really took the narrative

1035
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 2: back and were like, oh no, no, I'm not going

1036
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:11,720
Speaker 2: to let my daughter get washed away under this like banner.

1037
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 2: Oh oh, she was a sex worker. Therefore that's okay

1038
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 2: that she was found in a shallow grave. No, it

1039
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 2: makes me so infuriated, it does whom My heart really

1040
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 2: goes out. And yeah, hopefully they find some justice.

1041
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 3: Well, and the authorities authorities have said they're definitely not

1042
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 3: ruling out the fact that he might have other victims.

1043
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 3: So I do believe there's still an active investigation. And

1044
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 3: I think because he was arrested in twenty twenty two,

1045
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 3: so it's been it's been years since he's been arrested,

1046
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 3: and I think this might be why. You know, the

1047
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,120
Speaker 3: trial hasn't happened yet. I mean, they're trying to find

1048
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 3: more liv they're trying to find mores. Right well, I

1049
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 3: believe right now it's slated for December twenty twenty five,

1050
00:58:50,720 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 3: so for a couple of months the trial should start.

1051
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 3: Bishop Tony Coldwell, Yes, and he's fabulous by the way,

1052
00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:01,440
Speaker 3: if you if you find him on social media, he

1053
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 3: does a lot of outreach with that organization that I

1054
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 3: had mentioned previously to help women that are suffering with addiction.

1055
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:10,600
Speaker 3: He's fabulous, fabulous man.

1056
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:12,200
Speaker 2: Wow, that is.

1057
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 4: A beautiful cause. When we come back, we're going to

1058
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 4: switch gears a really hard, right, turn into some stupid

1059
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 4: criminal stories that hopefully we can all enjoy and be

1060
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 4: glad we're not in their places. We're also going to

1061
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 4: be hearing from you about tonight's stories. Give us a

1062
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 4: call eight at eight three to one Crime. We are

1063
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,720
Speaker 4: talking true crime all the time, so keep it here

1064
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 4: on True Crime Tonight.

1065
00:59:50,640 --> 00:59:53,520
Speaker 2: So we've been talking about so many heavy things right now,

1066
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 2: so we're going to try to shake it up a

1067
00:59:55,400 --> 00:59:58,080
Speaker 2: little bit. We have our talk back. They're calling about

1068
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 2: Rex humor Men, the accused Long Island serial killer, and

1069
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,480
Speaker 2: they left a really interesting message.

1070
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 8: Hi ladies, Love you guys and loving this podcast so far.

1071
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 8: I had a question about the Rex Hureman case, the

1072
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:18,360
Speaker 8: Long Island serial killer, and the admissibility of the DNA evidence.

1073
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 8: From my perspective as someone who works in a genetic

1074
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 8: testing laboratory, albeit in oncology testing not forensics, it seems

1075
01:00:27,560 --> 01:00:30,240
Speaker 8: so desperate. I wonder what your perspective is.

1076
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 3: Thinks, God, she's somebody I'd love to pick her brain. Yes,

1077
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 3: you have to come on the show some time with us.

1078
01:00:38,920 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 2: Right.

1079
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 3: So, in summary, I guess the core of the defense's

1080
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 3: challenge lies in questioning whether or not the specific DNA

1081
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 3: testing protocol is admissible or if it meets the legal

1082
01:00:49,880 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 3: standards in the state of New York. And it's this

1083
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 3: S and P testing. And I'm going to be honest.

1084
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 3: I mean, listen, we're all laymen, we're not experts in

1085
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,200
Speaker 3: this and whatnot. So I don't really know what the

1086
01:01:01,320 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 3: argument is about the SNP testing, but they do say

1087
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 3: it's not meeting the legal standard.

1088
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 2: For admiscibility in New York.

1089
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 3: And also they're saying, like the hairs that were found

1090
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,720
Speaker 3: on the victims' bodies, right, they were found on like

1091
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 3: you know, and I'm not trying to be gross or anything,

1092
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 3: but they were found on like decomposed bodies, right, And

1093
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 3: they're saying with the degradation of the bodies could affect

1094
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: the DNA on these hairs.

1095
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: So is that desperate? I don't know.

1096
01:01:30,040 --> 01:01:35,880
Speaker 3: I feel like, if I'm on trial for my life, right,

1097
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,680
Speaker 3: I want my lawyer to use everything in their playbook

1098
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 3: to help me get off. Right, So are they desperate?

1099
01:01:46,600 --> 01:01:48,439
Speaker 3: I think they're probably just doing their job.

1100
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,320
Speaker 2: But to that point, you know, and I think when

1101
01:01:51,320 --> 01:01:53,560
Speaker 2: it comes to this DNA type of stuff, and we've

1102
01:01:53,600 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 2: seen this in a few cases. Brian Coberger's case as

1103
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,000
Speaker 2: well in the Idaho college murders. And this one is

1104
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:03,120
Speaker 2: that air quotes junk science. I mean, obviously this has

1105
01:02:03,160 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 2: come so so far and so many things that are

1106
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 2: brought into question. Are the chain of custody, right, So

1107
01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,320
Speaker 2: who has the material? Where does a specimen go, where

1108
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 2: is it tested? How is it tested? Is their handling

1109
01:02:16,120 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 2: of this evidence? Do I think it's desperate? I see

1110
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 2: the point. I really do so. I definitely think it's

1111
01:02:22,640 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 2: a really fair question, and it's I have to kind

1112
01:02:25,800 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 2: of like throw it all at the wall, but it's

1113
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: not super compelling at the same time.

1114
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 4: Agreed, Yeah, But I mean also, you know, I would

1115
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 4: need to look into this, and I'd be excited to

1116
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 4: actually based on this question. But the DNA is not

1117
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:44,040
Speaker 4: in it. You know, it's in question in the New

1118
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 4: York courts, right, But that's the case for every piece

1119
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 4: of new technology in every court of law. So maybe

1120
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:55,600
Speaker 4: this is accepted in forty nine states. I have no

1121
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 4: idea if that's true. But my point is that for

1122
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 4: something to meet the level of a missibility in each state,

1123
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,960
Speaker 4: every single thing needs to go through a new process.

1124
01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:09,040
Speaker 4: You know, the first time a fingerprint was used now

1125
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:09,760
Speaker 4: what's this.

1126
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:12,240
Speaker 3: Well, I think with Ted Bundy that was the first

1127
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:14,800
Speaker 3: time bite analysis was done.

1128
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:17,000
Speaker 2: That's right. I think that's accurate. This is another one

1129
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: business of Scott Morgan. We have let's get yes, he's

1130
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 2: him back on Yeah, forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan. This

1131
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 2: all has his name written all over it. It really does.

1132
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 2: It is. It's a really interesting question. And by the way,

1133
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,360
Speaker 2: this Long Island serial killer, he claims his innocence, let

1134
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 2: the record show. And by the way, his wife, very devoted,

1135
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,120
Speaker 2: has been married to him for decades, is also you

1136
01:03:38,160 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 2: know saying not my man, you know, would never. We

1137
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:43,919
Speaker 2: should save some of this for Sunday. Okay, that's fine.

1138
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 3: Let's let's let's just do a island way because we

1139
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 3: have done that yet some some of the people might

1140
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 3: not even know what we're talking about. So let's let's

1141
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 3: get into this on Sunday when we come back. Great, Yeah,

1142
01:03:57,160 --> 01:03:57,640
Speaker 3: let's do that.

1143
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 4: Okay, fabulous, And this is a great reminder you can

1144
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 4: always send us a talk back. That was so intelligent.

1145
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:08,040
Speaker 4: We really appreciate it. When you're listening on the iheartradi app,

1146
01:04:08,080 --> 01:04:10,320
Speaker 4: you just give a click to the microphone icon it's

1147
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:14,200
Speaker 4: in the top right corner. But for now, I have

1148
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:18,040
Speaker 4: one of the stupid criminal stories that we've been talking about,

1149
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 4: and I'm not joking. I'd actually maybe like anything killer. Yeah, Yeah,

1150
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 4: here's a guy a little lighter. Yeah, I want to

1151
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:29,440
Speaker 4: hang out with this guy. Actually. So deputies in Florida

1152
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:34,000
Speaker 4: were understandably shocked when a man that they were chasing

1153
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 4: they were in pursuit, he literally offered them a drink

1154
01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 4: and then asked if they quote had fun during the

1155
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 4: police chase. So yeah, so Florida, Manda, we need always Florida.

1156
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:58,800
Speaker 4: So mid chase, he slowed down to offer a vodka

1157
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 4: spritzer out the window of his car to the pursuing deputy.

1158
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 4: That's what I said, I kind of want to go

1159
01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 4: to a party at this guy's house. What a host

1160
01:05:08,000 --> 01:05:12,080
Speaker 4: he proceeded. Later, he crashed several miles away. He was apprehended.

1161
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 4: The suspect, although I suspect he is. The guy is

1162
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 4: thirty nine year old Richard Christopher Smith of Miami. Specifically,

1163
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 4: so officers they had fully deployed those spike strips, you know,

1164
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 4: those horrifying things that you back over in the parking lot.

1165
01:05:31,600 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 2: That's like serious business. Totally serious, very serious business.

1166
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,680
Speaker 4: So they laid those out, those out. They actually had

1167
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,880
Speaker 4: to tase him during the arrest, which sounds horrible, but

1168
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 4: listen this jovial sir. Once he was arrested, as the

1169
01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 4: officers at that point, did you guys have fun chasing me?

1170
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:58,040
Speaker 4: Which I just I love that. And ultimately, unsurprisingly, he

1171
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:00,280
Speaker 4: was found he'd stolen a couple of items from a

1172
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:04,480
Speaker 4: nearby store, including the booze, so he was offering them.

1173
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 4: You know, I guess what would that be, not open

1174
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 4: proof of his crime or you know, stuff he had

1175
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 4: offered him that he faces d ui. But man, he

1176
01:06:14,720 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 4: was polite and down for the ride. The whole time.

1177
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 3: He was polite except for the tasing part. Right that.

1178
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 2: I've never experienced a tazing myself, but it sounds horrible. Oh,

1179
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 2: I don't want to even I don't even want to.

1180
01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:34,040
Speaker 3: Don't even come near me with that thing, exactly Listen.

1181
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 3: I would not survive in jail. I would not last

1182
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:38,280
Speaker 3: a day.

1183
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 2: Say it's my biggest nightmare.

1184
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:44,440
Speaker 3: It'd be more exciting. I have another one out of Florida.

1185
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:47,160
Speaker 3: Tell us listen, So what is up with all the

1186
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:47,760
Speaker 3: Florida men?

1187
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:50,000
Speaker 2: Like for real? We need to have my mind.

1188
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 3: Well I kind of I kind of looked into it

1189
01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 3: because I was like, what is going on? Apparently the

1190
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:59,040
Speaker 3: FLOYA laws in Florida are a little bit it's easier

1191
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:01,520
Speaker 3: to get information, and that's probably why we have all

1192
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 3: these stories from Florida, is because it's easier to get

1193
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:06,800
Speaker 3: like the anyway.

1194
01:07:06,600 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 4: Right, And the FOYA is the Freedom of Information Act

1195
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 4: and just for any crime nerds out there, you can

1196
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 4: use you can put into a FOYA to request information

1197
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 4: and people use that from different you know, different agencies

1198
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:25,520
Speaker 4: will use it and honestly, even look you lose who

1199
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 4: are just curious. It's freedom of information so Interestingida.

1200
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 3: In each state it has different criteria, Like in Tennessee,

1201
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,480
Speaker 3: for instance, you can't do a FOYA unless you're a

1202
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 3: resident a resident, right, so it depends on where you live. Anyway,

1203
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 3: I was just like, nosey, I'm like, what is going

1204
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 3: on Florida?

1205
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:43,880
Speaker 2: Anyway?

1206
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 3: I have another Florida man. Okay, this is this one's

1207
01:07:46,640 --> 01:07:48,880
Speaker 3: out of Alusa County. I hope I'm saying that right.

1208
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:54,280
Speaker 2: Volution. One of my brothers lives in Lovely Well, maybe

1209
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 2: he knows this guy, and hopefully he's not this guy. Actually,

1210
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 2: maybe he knows this guy.

1211
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 3: So deputies responded to New Smyrna Beach around ninety am

1212
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 3: so crack a dawn, Well not really, but early morning

1213
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: after a vehicle ran through a closed gate with access

1214
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,720
Speaker 3: to the beach without paying the toll. Okay, so he's

1215
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:15,680
Speaker 3: in a truck, he runs through the beach, the Sheriff's

1216
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 3: office said. The driver, Jason I'm not going to say

1217
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:21,160
Speaker 3: his last name because it's very hard to pronounce, told

1218
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 3: officials he wanted to drive on the beach. However, the

1219
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 3: deputy explained, hey, dude, the beach is closed.

1220
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:26,719
Speaker 2: You can't.

1221
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:28,799
Speaker 3: You know that it's high tide, you can't be driving

1222
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 3: your truck. So they got a video of him and

1223
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:37,439
Speaker 3: he's running his truck through the waves in the ocean

1224
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 3: and he's like doing donuts on the beach, just being

1225
01:08:42,360 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 3: a total nuisance. And he got arrested. And as he's

1226
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:49,720
Speaker 3: getting arrested, he told the deputies he just wanted to

1227
01:08:49,760 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 3: surf and it's not his fault his truck can't surf.

1228
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:59,840
Speaker 3: Oh right, So he was taken to Walusa County Jail

1229
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:02,439
Speaker 3: and let out with a two hundred dollars bond and Jason,

1230
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 3: if you're out there.

1231
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 2: You got to teach your truck out a surf bud.

1232
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:10,840
Speaker 2: I mean, go on, do you have for our well?

1233
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 2: I was going to Actually we got hit up on

1234
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 2: our socials and had a question about this whole, you know,

1235
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 2: justin Baldoni situation. So I'm going to try to read

1236
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:20,960
Speaker 2: this out loud. It's not a letter, but it is

1237
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 2: on our shutter. I'm the worst reader out loud, so

1238
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 2: just bear with me, Hay, True crime tonight. I loved

1239
01:09:27,080 --> 01:09:31,240
Speaker 2: all the gossip about Taylor Swift not texting back Blake Lively.

1240
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 2: So basically Taylor just basically dropped ghosts Lively like she

1241
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 2: got ghosted. And you know, I understand that. According to

1242
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 2: our our lovely social media here from Sylvia Denver, I

1243
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:47,799
Speaker 2: also think Taylor is being kind of a bad friend.

1244
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:52,320
Speaker 2: Shouldn't she have stood up for Blake Lively? I don't know.

1245
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,960
Speaker 4: I don't know when attorneys are involved and your potentials

1246
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,680
Speaker 4: at this point, and this whole thing is a disaster.

1247
01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:03,240
Speaker 4: It's kind of a pox on everybody's house. I hate

1248
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 4: to say this, but you know, no, I don't hate

1249
01:10:06,120 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 4: to say it at all. Blake Lively is not like

1250
01:10:08,520 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 4: the shining rose in this.

1251
01:10:10,360 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 3: So why Taylor knows like her friend is a dummy?

1252
01:10:14,560 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 3: Like you brought me into this. Now they want my

1253
01:10:16,880 --> 01:10:20,440
Speaker 3: text messages for the last ten years. I would be furious.

1254
01:10:20,479 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 3: I would be furious too.

1255
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 2: And by the way, friendly reminder, be mindful of what's

1256
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:27,640
Speaker 2: in your texts. You know this kind of nonsense. You know,

1257
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,880
Speaker 2: we keep hearing about this more and more as a

1258
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:33,719
Speaker 2: standard for discovery airquots. Discovery it's a very fancy legal

1259
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 2: term where they basically say, hey, hand over your phone

1260
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 2: because there's a lawsuit. And then you know, things can

1261
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 2: be really taken out of context and texts, so you know,

1262
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 2: as you're texting, just imagine you know, a court of

1263
01:10:44,439 --> 01:10:48,080
Speaker 2: law reading all of it. Whuh terribly.

1264
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 4: That's like all people say to their kids about their iPads.

1265
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:58,200
Speaker 4: Anything you look for your principle reading it. So it

1266
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:02,160
Speaker 4: is good advice, and yes, so should we all heed

1267
01:11:02,240 --> 01:11:03,360
Speaker 4: our text messages.

1268
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:05,920
Speaker 2: Sunday, we're really going to do a big deep dive

1269
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 2: on manifestos because our very own body Moven is obsessed.

1270
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 2: And also the Long Island serial Killer. We haven't even

1271
01:11:14,120 --> 01:11:17,000
Speaker 2: touched on that really too much yet, so we'll get

1272
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 2: into that more on Sunday as well. More on that

1273
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:21,920
Speaker 2: to come. But we also seem you know, our caller

1274
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 2: is here right now. What's your question?

1275
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 3: Right?

1276
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:27,360
Speaker 2: Hi?

1277
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:27,920
Speaker 1: Hi?

1278
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: Hello Wade, Hi Wade, what's your question?

1279
01:11:33,560 --> 01:11:33,720
Speaker 8: So?

1280
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:38,439
Speaker 7: I just heard that Luisi Mangioni has received over a

1281
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:44,040
Speaker 7: million dollars in donations. I mean, I get how frustrated

1282
01:11:44,040 --> 01:11:49,240
Speaker 7: folks are with the healthcare system, but what is happening, Like,

1283
01:11:49,439 --> 01:11:52,080
Speaker 7: when did it become okay to kill somebody?

1284
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 2: Thank you? It is that accurate? A million over a

1285
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 2: million dollars for a GoFundMe for his defense one million,

1286
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:02,360
Speaker 2: one under one thousand and thirty one dollars. You stop,

1287
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:03,800
Speaker 2: shut the front door. Really?

1288
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1289
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:08,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, one million, one hundred thousand, thirty one dollars. Meanwhile,

1290
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 3: let's not let's not forget that. You know, poor Mattie

1291
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 3: Mogan's family, who is a victim in Moscow, Idaho, from

1292
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:19,320
Speaker 3: buying Colberger, can barely get twenty thousand dollars to attend

1293
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,799
Speaker 3: the trial, you know, I mean.

1294
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:26,440
Speaker 2: That's it's sort of Verty's daughter. Yeah, yeah, that's rightfully unbearable.

1295
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:29,839
Speaker 2: And to your point, Madison Mogan, Kaylee Gonzalvez, his family,

1296
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 2: Ethan Chapin's family. They've all, you know, an van Konodles

1297
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 2: family in Washington, they've all started these gofundmes so that

1298
01:12:37,280 --> 01:12:42,839
Speaker 2: they could at least attend this really in jail. Meanwhile, Luigi,

1299
01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:47,000
Speaker 2: who's you know, allegedly a killer? That is really what

1300
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:50,160
Speaker 2: do you make now? It's my understanding it's specified for

1301
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 2: his defense fund. Is that right? It's not like to

1302
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:54,400
Speaker 2: him personally? Is it like?

1303
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 3: He can't You can't commit a crime and benefit from

1304
01:12:57,439 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 3: it financially, it's against the law. So this half to

1305
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 3: be for his defense fund.

1306
01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 4: It's for his defense fund. But also he comes from

1307
01:13:06,520 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 4: his background is a lot of wealth and privilege, and

1308
01:13:11,479 --> 01:13:15,320
Speaker 4: so of all the people who quote need it, I

1309
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 4: don't think he's one of them. And I know lawyers

1310
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:22,400
Speaker 4: are expensive, but also how many people aren't don't even

1311
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 4: have the opportunity to choose their own attorneys because they

1312
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:28,280
Speaker 4: can't afford them. And kind of you get who you get.

1313
01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,520
Speaker 3: Well, let's not forget either this is a federal attorney.

1314
01:13:32,040 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 3: They're even more costly.

1315
01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is a federal case, and you know

1316
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,240
Speaker 2: and and and but true, that's shocking to me. Wade,

1317
01:13:40,320 --> 01:13:42,599
Speaker 2: great question, and thank you for joining us.

1318
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:44,200
Speaker 4: Ye please thank you.

1319
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:48,240
Speaker 2: Stay stay tuning in. More on this to come, and

1320
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 2: listen again. I know I've said this before, but we

1321
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,400
Speaker 2: have so many things to unpack Sunday, but it's been

1322
01:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,759
Speaker 2: our first full week, so thanks for hanging with us,

1323
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 2: and yes, we definitely want to hear from you. Eight

1324
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 2: eight eight three one Crime On Sunday, we're talking manifestos

1325
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 2: Karen Reid, the Long Island serial killer. So our socials

1326
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 2: are at True Crime Tonight's show, plus at True Crime

1327
01:14:10,880 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 2: Tonight on Facebook. More on that to come. This is

1328
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:18,240
Speaker 2: True Crime Tonight where we talk true crime all the time.

1329
01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:20,080
Speaker 2: And thank you for the wonderful night.

1330
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,080
Speaker 4: Thank you for the wonderful night and the wonderful week.

1331
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:32,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, stay safe, everybody,