1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,440 Speaker 1: Dear listener, there's going to be some language that might 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,279 Speaker 1: be offensive in this episode. 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 2: I don't think I identified as prominently as Latino as I 4 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: do now, But for me, it's always going to be black. 5 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: I think apparently recently some people started capitalizing black, and 6 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 2: I was like, is it not capitalized? Because I've been 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 2: doing that since elementary school. I went to call myself Blatino. 8 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: It was a capital B Blatin. 9 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I should do that. 10 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:30,319 Speaker 4: I should do that. 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 5: The thing about it is that we were never separated 12 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 5: from being black. We always knew we were black, and 13 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 5: it wasn't just because of the color of our skin. 14 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 5: It was our culture. 15 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: From futuro media, it's Latino usay, I'm Marie no Hoosa. Today, 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: a year after George Floyd's murder, a family lets us 17 00:00:53,159 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: into an intimate conversation about race and Latini dad. On 18 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: May twenty twenty, George Floyd, a dad and a friend 19 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: to so many people, was choked to death in Minneapolis 20 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: by a white police officer, Derek Chauvin. His murderers sparked 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: outrage across the United States and beyond. In the middle 22 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: of a shutdown and a global pandemic, George Floyd's murder 23 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: focused attention once again on the systemic racism so many 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: people are experiencing daily in this country at the hands 25 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: of the police. His death also sparked difficult conversations within 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: the Latino community, where race is still often a taboo 27 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: in many families, or at a minimum, race can be 28 00:01:55,760 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: a very uncomfortable conversation. A year after George Floyd's death 29 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: and the massive protests that followed, we wanted to bring 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: you a family conversation on race and Latini Dad. Today 31 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,720 Speaker 1: we're joined by two Afro Latino cousins. First, there's Umar 32 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: Malik Williams. 33 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 5: My name is Umar Malik Williams. I am forty five 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 5: years old. 35 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 1: Umar is a musician and radio host. He's lived in 36 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,600 Speaker 1: the Twin Cities for close to twenty years, and he's 37 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: been involved in the racial justice movement in Minnesota for years. 38 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: And this is his younger cousin, Alex Newton. 39 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 2: My name is Alexander Manson Newton. I am thirty one 40 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 2: years old. 41 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: Alex is a strategy and analytics consultant and he lives 42 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: in Washington, DC. Umar and Alex are maternal cousins. 43 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 4: Both of our mothers are sisters. 44 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: Their mothers grew up together in Panama. 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 5: They were born in Panama City on Thirteenth Street. 46 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: But Umar and Alex's black identity doesn't end there. It's 47 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: much more complex. Umar's father is from Guyana in South America, 48 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: and Alex's father is from Ghana in Africa. 49 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 4: I grew up black as beautiful. 50 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 5: We are black here in the United States. We are 51 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 5: black in Central America, black in South America, black in 52 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:30,079 Speaker 5: the Caribbean. Regardless of the language, our family is very, 53 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 5: very incredibly plar out of being Panamanian, being Latinos, we 54 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 5: cousins are the only ones that don't speak as much 55 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 5: Spanish or any Spanish at all. 56 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 3: Spanish. I didn't learn it from home, but I learned 57 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 3: it eventually, right right, right same here. We're same here. 58 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 5: They didn't speak to us in Spanish that much until 59 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 5: we had to learn in school. 60 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: Bumar and Alex grew up close in New York and 61 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: in New Jersey in a tight knit family of eleven cousins. 62 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: They still chat all the time on their phones. 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 5: The cousins considered ourselves siblings. There was no such thing 64 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 5: as a nuclear family with us, and we were also 65 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 5: steeped in who we were as black people and as Latinos. 66 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: In this conversation, Umar and Alex are going to dig 67 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: into their nuanced relationship with race, culture, and identity. It's 68 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 1: the kind of conversation that probably many Afro Latino families 69 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: were having even before George Floyd's murder, but among Latinos 70 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 1: who are not Black, this was a moment to engage 71 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: in these kinds of talks as well. Umar and Alex 72 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: begin their conversation by remembering that tragic day. Here's Umar, 73 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: who was in Minneapolis. 74 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 5: It was kind of chilly, kind of rainy Memorial Day, 75 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 5: as it always is out here in the cities. Friends 76 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 5: was right sometimes it knows. In April, it does know 77 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 5: that April he had a little bit of a cold snap. 78 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 5: It started to get warmer again. We're like, ooh, my 79 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 5: world is gonna be fun. And then we wake up 80 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 5: to that. 81 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 6: Following breaking news this midday and we have just learned 82 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 6: the name of the man who died while in Minneapolis 83 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 6: police custody late last night. 84 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 4: He is George Floyd. 85 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: It's weird for me. I honestly don't know. I don't 86 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 2: have a specific memory of when I first discovered that 87 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 2: George Floyd was murdered because I had so many memories 88 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 2: of black men being killed by police in the streets. 89 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,919 Speaker 2: I was thinking about it for a while, and I 90 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: was just like, I don't know what got white people 91 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 2: so excited about this particular one, because this has been happening. 92 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,919 Speaker 2: You know, Trevon Martin was not a drug dealer, was 93 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 2: not a big threatening, quote unquote black man. His sixteen 94 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,919 Speaker 2: year old kid getting skittles in an iced tea happens 95 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: every day. People get shot every day. I was just 96 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 2: surprised that George Floyd became such a movement, right. 97 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 5: I think what's important is that there's a series of circumstances. 98 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 4: I could whittle off the names of people who were. 99 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 5: Brutalized to death or shot and killed by Minneapolis or 100 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 5: Saint Paul police. The significance with me about George Floyd 101 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:31,239 Speaker 5: was the full camera footage about a year before George 102 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 5: Floyd was Kobe Heisler. There was no cam footage of that. 103 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 5: What happens with a lot of the other murders also 104 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 5: is that the time stamp is too quick. For example, 105 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 5: Filando can steal The first video we see is his 106 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 5: girlfriend's cam video of it already happening, and it happened 107 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 5: within a couple of minutes right before Filando Castill was 108 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 5: Jamar Clark again. 109 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 4: Dashcam footage. 110 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 5: You don't hear what's going on, just really confusing what's happening. 111 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 5: You see a flash of light and then you see 112 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 5: a body put into the petty riding. The same thing 113 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 5: with what happened with Makaiah Bryant, and we still see 114 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 5: the body of cam footage. 115 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 4: It's twenty seconds long. He shows up, bam, bam, bam. 116 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 4: She down on the ground. 117 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 5: So all these things are like just just rapid fire, 118 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 5: and you don't have a chance to really. 119 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 4: Process. 120 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 5: It's a different kind of disbelief. George Floyd over nine 121 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 5: minutes and you're seeing his humanity and then you see 122 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 5: the callous treatment of his body. 123 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: Part of me was starting to think that's definitely what 124 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: changed it is that people could see Chauvin was looking 125 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 2: directly at the camera. If you're gonna review bang bang bang, 126 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: most people like try and avoid the camera or they're 127 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 2: like turn the cameras off. But it was just so 128 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: brazen and in your face. The time thing is definitely 129 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: part of it. Then anythink back to Eric Carner, and 130 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: that was seven years ago, and it's like the whole 131 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: I can't breathe movement, like creating all these hashtags and 132 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: these new quotes that are hipping cool and easy snippets 133 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: to capture this system. Every time, it's hard to identify 134 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: it as a unique moment because you know, we've been here, 135 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: done that. 136 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,439 Speaker 3: It's again and again and again and again. 137 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 4: It's true, man, it's true. 138 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 3: Umar. I do have a question for you. 139 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: Do you think if the pandemic wasn't this year and 140 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 2: people didn't want an excuse or desire to leave the house, 141 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: that they would have protested. 142 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 4: That's a very good question. That's a very good question. 143 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 5: Yeah. 144 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 2: I've been trying to think about what finally mobilized white 145 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,160 Speaker 2: people because maybe they just wanted to get not to 146 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: you know, discredit people, but maybe people just wanted to 147 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: get out the house. 148 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, yeah, it wouldn't surprise me because there 149 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 5: was so man, Okay. 150 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: I don't know if it makes me more comfortable or 151 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: less comfortable, but. 152 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 4: Like no, nope, nope. 153 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 5: You don't need to find a way to justify it 154 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 5: or find validity in it, because it is valid and 155 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 5: not that there weren't white people protesting this race when 156 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 5: Jamar Clark happened, when Filando still happened, et. 157 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 4: Cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. 158 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 5: But then we stopped, and fine, if it took a 159 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 5: pandemic that people still deny, then cool. Finally, I'm still 160 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 5: holding people's feet to the fire about it. 161 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 4: But I think the other thing that really. 162 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 5: Helped in the mobilization is people taking control of that intersection. 163 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 4: It was something that had never been done. George Floyd Square. 164 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 4: That was the game changer. 165 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 5: The occupying of that intersection was the real deal. Out 166 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 5: in West side Saint Paul and the East side. Saint 167 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 5: Paul's a big Latin community and they've always been on 168 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 5: the forefront of organizing and protesting. We've always connected ourselves 169 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 5: as black and brown folk. And it's not just the 170 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 5: black and brown people, it's the white people there too, 171 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 5: And we want to blame the pandemic. Cool because at 172 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 5: least people have mobilized and organized in a small fashion 173 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 5: as much as we've been mobilizing and organizing for over 174 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 5: seven years. Finally we've organized and mobilized to take ownership, 175 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 5: autonomous ownership and create a sacred space for us to 176 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 5: say this is ours, and if you're gonna try to 177 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 5: take it, we ain't gonna just let you take it. 178 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 4: We put some real. 179 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 5: Fear into the police force by destroying the Third Precinct. 180 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,719 Speaker 5: My daughter's mom, she lives five blocks away from the 181 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 5: Third Precinct, and the high school that my daughter went 182 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 5: to is right there. But to give a full visual, 183 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 5: we walk in and then there's the major mural that 184 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 5: everybody knows of George Floyd's face and chest and then 185 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 5: all the names. 186 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,959 Speaker 4: And it's so beautiful. I actually witnessed the creation of 187 00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 4: this mural. 188 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 5: Across the street where Dragon Walk is where he was 189 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 5: first removed from his vehicle, and right in the center 190 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 5: there is the big paper mache's fist and it's grown 191 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 5: to be what it is now. 192 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 4: Right where he was killed. 193 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 5: There's an outline of his body painted but like as 194 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 5: a talk outline, and there's a lot of pictures, paintings, prayers, blessings, flowers, 195 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:36,320 Speaker 5: everything surrounded there. There's a manifesto, the People's Manifesto about 196 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 5: the bottishment of. 197 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 4: Police on the street. 198 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 5: The names names full on names, George Floyd, Sandra Bland, 199 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 5: Jamar Clark, all the names that we've been hearing since Trayvon, 200 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 5: and it became this thing that is like a monument now. 201 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 2: Out of the Bible gets tired of the fact that 202 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: we can't breathe. 203 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:04,439 Speaker 3: I was in DC. 204 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 2: I had just started a data science boot camp, and 205 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: I was sitting in front of the computer and staring 206 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 2: at the screen, and I'm like, what the hell am 207 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 2: I doing in a basement staring at a computer typing 208 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:28,079 Speaker 2: Hello World into Python? When there's huge protests outside for 209 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: my people being killed. It's like, what the what the 210 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 2: hell are you doing? Get the hell up and go 211 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:37,440 Speaker 2: out and protest. So I finally made it out one week. 212 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,839 Speaker 2: I went down to Black Lives Matter Plaza with a 213 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 2: couple of black friends of mine as well. It was 214 00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: weird because the fence leading up to the lighthouse was 215 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 2: covered in memorial There was a lot of tributes to 216 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: the several dozen black people that had been killed by 217 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: police violence, and there were people that were actively curating 218 00:13:57,520 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 2: that museum content, so to speak. The occupation of a 219 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,400 Speaker 2: space was a big thing that was different about those protests. 220 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 2: Mayor Bowser basically right in front of the White House 221 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 2: when Trump was in office, renamed that entire plaza Black 222 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 2: Lives Matter Plaza to Washington, DC avenue's worth of blocks 223 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 2: spelled out Black Lives Matter leading up to as close 224 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 2: as you can get to the White House. But it 225 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 2: was the first time I had seen an official capacity 226 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 2: support for the Black Lives Matter movement. It didn't happen 227 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 2: with Shaymon Martin, no mayors, no governors, nobody spoke out 228 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 2: about these moments in their official capacity. 229 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 3: And then I got there, it just kind of it 230 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: felt weird. 231 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: It felt like the protest part of it had faded 232 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: away and we had now leaned into protest tourism, and 233 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 2: I felt like a protest tourist taking pictures, even though 234 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 2: I personally just want, you know, I want to be 235 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 2: able to tell my little niece what it felt like 236 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 2: being in Washington, d C. During the George Floyd protests, 237 00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 2: even though it was black and there to celebrate black 238 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 2: lives once you got there, like, okay, so what am 239 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 2: I doing about this? 240 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 4: Right? 241 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 3: Like, it's one thing to document, but this is what's 242 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 3: the next step. 243 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 5: It's one of those things that is a fine line 244 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 5: because you also want to honor and respect those who 245 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 5: are there to document, to see it. At the same time, 246 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 5: are you here to look at this as a museum 247 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 5: and post on social media about how cool it is 248 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 5: that you're here. 249 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: What is your purpose in that moment? A lot of 250 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: it was, you know, it's not for social media. And 251 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: the only thing that got me through the tiers and 252 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:35,920 Speaker 2: the data science boot camp and sitting in front of 253 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: a computer is that the most effective thing I can 254 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 2: do to just demonstrate black lives matter is to just 255 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 2: to demonstrate black excellence, black beauty. I think the only 256 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: thing that got me through taking those pictures with my 257 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 2: friends was you know, this is for me. This is 258 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 2: to reinforce strength in my identity because no one else 259 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 2: is going to do it for me. Where I was giving, 260 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: it's to the future, it's to the next generation. 261 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 7: Data Minnesota plaintiff versus Derek Michael Chauvin, defendant Bert to 262 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 7: count one. We the jury in the above entitled manner 263 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 7: as to count one unintentional second degree murder while committing 264 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 7: a felony buying the defendant guilty verdic count two guilty three, 265 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 7: guilty three. 266 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 5: It came some tears flowed, breathe a bit, and then 267 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 5: I'm like, yeah, cool, what's next, and we have a 268 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 5: cousin chat. 269 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna lie umar. I put you guys on 270 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 3: a mute for a big I don't know if I 271 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 3: was working or what I was doing. 272 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 4: No, it's all good. It's all good. 273 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 2: I joke about muting you guys. But part of it, 274 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 2: too is just like how much of it can you 275 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: can you take? I remember sitting in front of the 276 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 2: computer and crying and it doesn't feel good, and despite 277 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 2: how many times we've been through it, it still does 278 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: not feel great. The only thing I want to hear 279 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 2: about this trial is if and when Chauvin is in 280 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 2: jail and not getting out. That's what I want to 281 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 2: hear because that's the effective stuff that matters. Right, I 282 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: will go through the retraumatization of that experience if that's 283 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 2: the outcome. I'm not going to re engage with all 284 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: this stuff. It's just to hear sentencing in eight weeks 285 00:17:13,320 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: in his New York home on a ranch where he 286 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 2: has to wear a bracelet and can't leave a forty 287 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: five acre radius, and then he's up for probation in 288 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 2: two years. Like, I'm not going to be engaged with 289 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 2: that unless I hear the actual verdict. 290 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 5: Realistically, I just need money away from the police. I 291 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:37,320 Speaker 5: would like for this to actually be a catalyst. I 292 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 5: don't want police reform. I want a full restructuring to 293 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 5: abolishment of police, learning a new way of dealing with 294 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 5: conflict and preserving life and culture. Let's all be able 295 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 5: to have food, Let's all be able to have a home, 296 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,719 Speaker 5: Let's all be able to communicate, making sure that everybody 297 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 5: can live. 298 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino, USA, Umar and Alex discuss some 299 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: of their struggles with race and Latini Dad as they 300 00:18:12,680 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: were growing up. Stay with us not yes, Hey, We're 301 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 1: back Afro Latino cousins. Umar Williams and Alex Newton continue 302 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: their conversation about race and Latinidad one year after George 303 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: Floyd's murder, and now they're going to go deep into 304 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: their childhood and their teenage years. And also a quick note, 305 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: You'll notice some difference in the sound quality in this 306 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: part of the conversation because it was recorded on a 307 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: different day and in quarantine, so still not in the studio. 308 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: Here are Umar and Alex again. 309 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 5: I grew up in Brooklyn, born in nineteen seventy five. 310 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 5: Golden Asia hip hop, Lot of You know the crack era, Alex. 311 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:52,360 Speaker 5: You guys are Brunswick, Princeton Junction area. 312 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, Jersey, Jersey. 313 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 2: We grew up in New Jersey, so it seems kind 314 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 2: of like our parents like ran away to the suburbs 315 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 2: to avoid the crack era. 316 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 3: One thing I will throw in is that my dad 317 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 3: is actually from Ghana. He and my mother met in 318 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 3: New York. 319 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 2: My mom used to explain to when we were younger, 320 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 2: my dad dragged her away from from her. 321 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 3: Family in the city and we moved into a New Jersey. 322 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 3: I grew up very. 323 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 2: Closely with my African cousins, so the Newton side of 324 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 2: the family that they were literally a bike right away. 325 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 2: The one interesting thing I will say about, you know, 326 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 2: the black culture is, and especially given the time that 327 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: my parents were born and the time that they decided 328 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 2: to move, is. 329 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:34,679 Speaker 3: This whole idea of Pan Africanism. 330 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 2: In the sixties, all these African countries were gaining independence. 331 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: I think Marcus Garvey was huge, grew up years that 332 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 3: has worked bothered, and there's this. 333 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 2: Whole movement and feeling of Pan Africanism that extended itself 334 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: into Jamaica and Barbados, made its way into Panama obviously, 335 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: and I think that's what my mother was very much too. 336 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 2: You know, she got herself some kente cloth, got herself 337 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 2: an African husband, and like really leaned into the whole 338 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 2: idea of you know, black people being united across the world. 339 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 5: And what's funny is that your mom she reps Patama 340 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 5: like nobody's business man. It's like, you know all about Badama, 341 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 5: but is you know, definitely steeped in that Pan Africanism 342 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 5: and the extension of preserving culture. 343 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 4: My mother is the same way. 344 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: I always grew up thinking we were West Indian before 345 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 2: we were Latino, right, the whole Latino part of it. 346 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,680 Speaker 2: Because you go to West Indian Day Parade, which was 347 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 2: always an event for our family. Our grandparents' home was 348 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 2: literally blocks away from the epicenter of the parade. It's 349 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 2: mostly the West Indian Caribbean energy and culture. You know, 350 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 2: Trinidadians and Jamaicans and Saint Lucians and you know all that, 351 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: but there's also Panamanians and Puerto Ricans and Cubans and 352 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 2: Dominicans and brought the celebration of Carnival. 353 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 4: Into that strip of the Parkway. It was a way 354 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 4: for us all to gather together and celebrate. 355 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: You know who we are, right and the minority identity 356 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 2: with identity with which you probably most frequently identify is 357 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: the one that's most attacked. 358 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 3: For me growing up in New Jersey. 359 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: First of all, you look at me and people were like, 360 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,480 Speaker 2: you're black, and nobody's like, oh, your dad's Ganaane. I mean, 361 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:46,479 Speaker 2: it's like you figure out that Africa is not a country, 362 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 2: nobody's gonna specifiye that your dad's Ghanaan, and it's even 363 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 2: Panama for your Latino. It's like people aren't used to 364 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 2: seeing a black Latino. Amar was talking about, you know 365 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: how he always grew up knowing that we were black. 366 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 2: For us, it was at first and for me, just 367 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,159 Speaker 2: when I started being able to have in memory, we 368 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 2: had just moved into a house in one of these 369 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 2: white Italian suburbs, this is North Brunswick, and I don't 370 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 2: remember exactly how it happened, but as soon as we 371 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 2: moved in, people broke into our house and wrote get 372 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 2: out on our wall. 373 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 4: I remember that. I remember that distinctly. 374 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, if you, if you get explained, you 375 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 3: probably know better than I do. 376 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, you were very young when that happened. I was 377 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 5: literally like the day or the day after you guys 378 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 5: moved in. I came to visit with my mom, who 379 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 5: wanted to see what was going on. And again, we're 380 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 5: close fit family. You mess with one, you're gonna mess 381 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 5: with the whole family. So we coming in and be ready. 382 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 4: I was just in college at that time. No, I 383 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 4: was in high school and. 384 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 5: Spray painted all over the world. Every room, every room, 385 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 5: Get out, just get out. They moved in there, and 386 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,880 Speaker 5: it was really the first time my younger cousins, Newton cousins, 387 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 5: had ever had to really experience it that blankantly. I 388 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 5: I'm from Brooklyn. That would the cops a lot. I've 389 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 5: been called before, I've been called baboom monkey. Got into 390 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 5: a few fights in my youth because of that. But 391 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 5: his parents made sure that they were as sheltered from 392 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 5: that experience as possible. 393 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 2: I can't see it visually, and maybe it's one of 394 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: those things that my parents told me directly after that. 395 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: But brother Ryan, like we grew up just being kids, 396 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: not being black kids, until like that memory was brought 397 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,239 Speaker 2: for them, and it's like we didn't really talk too 398 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: much about race. 399 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: It's always as balanced. 400 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 2: You know, and black families of how long can I 401 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 2: let my child grow up by the naive ignorance that 402 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: is just being a child and a human being. Before 403 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: the conversation these there is this debate of African American 404 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 2: and where we put the dashes and if we capitalize 405 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 2: certain things. And I never wanted to be called African American. 406 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 2: That was always like black is black is the way 407 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 2: to go. I don't have to separate myself from African 408 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 2: Americans quote unquote, or from black Latinos or whatever. 409 00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 5: I despised being called African American, not because I didn't 410 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 5: connect to being African. You look at us, we go 411 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 5: down to Africa, so that was understood. That was always understood. 412 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 5: My mother made sure that was always understood with me, 413 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,880 Speaker 5: so we don't need to be reminded of the continent. 414 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 5: It lumped us all in in a way that we 415 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 5: didn't need to be lumped in. 416 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 4: And erase a lot of who we are. I agree with, 417 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 4: like what you go work, I'm not from Africa. 418 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 5: I'm black. I'm not even going to call myself Black American. 419 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:08,920 Speaker 5: I'm black, plain and simple. If anybody's African Americans, my 420 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,919 Speaker 5: cousins because their fathers from Ghana. 421 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, probably like most most directly African, right exactly exactly. 422 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 5: You're going to call somebody African American, can call them 423 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 5: Newton's African American because their their fathers from Ghana, but 424 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:22,640 Speaker 5: their mother's from Panama. 425 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 3: So you can't just call them, Okay. 426 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 4: They Latin. 427 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 3: You know, we we don't play that. 428 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 4: Nobody gets to tell. 429 00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 3: You who you are. 430 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 2: They sent my moms right right, right, right right exactly exactly, 431 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: not even our dads only. And thinking about when I 432 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 2: discovered my Latinia, it's hard because probably the only reason 433 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 2: that I realized that I was Latino was because I 434 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 2: grew up saying Panama and when you go to school, 435 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 2: they say. 436 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 3: Panama and get to school and people were like, why 437 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 3: do you say it that way? I was like, why 438 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,840 Speaker 3: do you say it that way? That's not the day 439 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 3: of the country. Like that was like probably the only 440 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 3: thing I knew about my Latinidad as I was growing up. 441 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,399 Speaker 2: I never really leaned into my Latino identity until I 442 00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 2: was able to reconcile the blackness part of it. 443 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 3: That didn't come until college. 444 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 2: Actually, Africa and Latin America have all these commonalities from 445 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: the development perspective, to start, but also just from like 446 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:25,880 Speaker 2: a colonization perspective, from language perspectives between like whether it's 447 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 2: like French in Africa or English in Africa and Spanish 448 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 2: in Latin America. It has all these they have all 449 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 2: these similarities. When I realized that, oh wait, both of 450 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 2: these people were pressing the same way. 451 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:36,960 Speaker 3: That's why. 452 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: That's when I realized, my Latini Dad, it's probably slightly 453 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 2: different for you and Mark. 454 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 5: The difference was my mom was very steep in her 455 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 5: Latini Dad. All of the siblings, as we call them, 456 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 5: they spoke to each other in Spanish, the Panamanian Spanish, 457 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,399 Speaker 5: which is different from Puerto Rican, which is different from Cuban. 458 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 5: Is definitely a West Indian inflection in the words. 459 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 3: That's very confusing. 460 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 5: Yeah, And they spoke to each other in Spanglish, their 461 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 5: version of Spanglish. 462 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: Yes, particular brand of Spanglish, spiculous specific kind a lot. 463 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 3: You know. 464 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 5: You know, my mother made sure that I knew my 465 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 5: culture and there was a pride about it. You know, 466 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 5: we knew our music, and you knew the language. We 467 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 5: knew our history. A big thing about our family is 468 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 5: understanding where we come from. Also, be strong, don't be 469 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,800 Speaker 5: afraid of who you are. As much as people will 470 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 5: look at you and say you're not, you can say 471 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 5: yes the hell I am. 472 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, and even taking a step farther. 473 00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 2: I had an Argentinian friend in high school and I 474 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 2: was like, his last name is the Benedetti and he 475 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 2: was white and with blue eyes. 476 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 3: I was like, I'm confused. You say you're Argentinian, but 477 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 3: you white as hell, Like are you are you? That's 478 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 3: totally fair, that's totally fair. But I was like, I 479 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 3: know I'm Latino. What the hell are you? 480 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,080 Speaker 2: You claim to be Latino and I claim to be Latino. 481 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 2: I don't know how we both was like, happened to be. 482 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 3: Latino under the same umbrella. 483 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 2: I had grown up presuming that Latinos were black or 484 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 2: some kind of mixed brownish, like a person of color. 485 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 3: And then I started beating white Latinos and I. 486 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 2: Was so confused, so confused, Like I guess the tough 487 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 2: part of seeing this Argentine was you can claim to 488 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 2: be just as different as I am just because you're 489 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 2: also Latino. But it's like when he goes to Spain 490 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 2: and speaks Spanish, people aren't doubting your identity based on 491 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: solely your appearance. 492 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 5: But we both the experience of having to actually prove ourselves, 493 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 5: which is a difficult thing when that's how you've grown 494 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 5: up and that's how you identify. There's another way of survival, 495 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,680 Speaker 5: how to navigate through this life as an Afro Latino. 496 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 2: I have to say I had a conversation just the 497 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 2: other day with my roommate around all of this, this 498 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: concept of being black and being white. If I had 499 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 2: the choice to be born again and I could choose 500 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: my race, I would choose blackness again. And he's like, well, 501 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: you know, if you look at the data, you look 502 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 2: at the grass, and you look at the odds of 503 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 2: like being pulled over, being arrested, being killed and all that. 504 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 2: Not to just throw it in there lightly, but like 505 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,360 Speaker 2: like why would you choose to be black again? But 506 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: when something happens, you know it fits the Watts riots 507 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 2: in la if it's to Derek Chauvin's trial. Today, black 508 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 2: people are not surprised because we've grown up with this perspective. 509 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 2: A lot of white people have to learn to have perspective, 510 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 2: and that's something that's just baked into being black, into 511 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 2: being other. My identity is always different I'm always the 512 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 2: one out because people can see you before they can 513 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: hear you. You know, the depth of all of this stuff. 514 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 2: It's not just the small stuff. It's not just the 515 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 2: brazen stuff like having your house spray painted. It's not 516 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 2: just people crossing the street and clutching their purses. It's 517 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: this whole invisible thing that you can't see. For a 518 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,520 Speaker 2: lot of white people, they don't experience that. They don't 519 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 2: see how the zip codes are codified into Jim Crow. 520 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,360 Speaker 2: People won't see that and they don't experience it because 521 00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: they're not denied a home loan. But people like it 522 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 2: for every step of our lives. You know, it's every 523 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:43,040 Speaker 2: little thing. There's always so many times like that that 524 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 2: stuff can happen there it's like, okay, we're not deceived. 525 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 2: So all the perspective that you get from that, I mean, 526 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,760 Speaker 2: it's something that can't be taught. It's something that can't 527 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: be learned. It's something that we grew up in that's 528 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 2: baked into our culture or the way we raise is 529 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 2: and just the small moments of pride, just as being 530 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 2: a black person. But I think just to bring it 531 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 2: back to the pride thing too, I think it makes 532 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 2: us stronger. For every scab that you get, for every 533 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 2: cup that you get, the skin that we grows is 534 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 2: stronger than the skin that was there before. 535 00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 5: What is really good about finding and living in blackness 536 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 5: and all the forms that we have is that we 537 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 5: have been able to live and navigate in a way 538 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 5: that has us understanding who we are and not being 539 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:47,719 Speaker 5: ashamed of it, not staring away from it, but fully embracing. 540 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 4: It and fully being a part of it. All of it, 541 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 4: all of it, all of it is who. 542 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 5: We were, and all of it was rich, and all 543 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 5: of it was beautiful, absolutely beautiful. And don't let anybody, 544 00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 5: whether they look like you or they look at your oppressors, 545 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 5: ever take that away from you. 546 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: Our thanks to Umar and Alex for sharing their thoughts 547 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:46,720 Speaker 1: with us. This episode was produced by Mari es Kinka 548 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: and edited by Marta Martinez. The Latino USA team includes 549 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: Miel Marcias Andrello Escrusado, Mike Sargent, Julieta Martinelli, Victories, Trada, 550 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,680 Speaker 1: Gini Montalbo, Alejandra Slasar, Renaldo Leanoz Junior, and Julia Rocha, 551 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: with help from Raoul Berez. Our engineers are Stephanie Lebou, 552 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 1: Julia Caruso and Leah Shaw. Our digital editor is Luis Luna. 553 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: Our intern is Oscar de Leon. Our theme music was 554 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 1: composed by Zane Ruinos. If you like the music you 555 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,160 Speaker 1: heard on this episode, stop by Latinousa dot org and 556 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 1: check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and 557 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,759 Speaker 1: executive producer Maria no Josa. Join us again on our 558 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: next episode, and in the meantime, I'll see you on 559 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,000 Speaker 1: all of our social media. Hi Losbo Bye. 560 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:37,160 Speaker 6: Latino USA is made possible in part by W. K. 561 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 6: Kellogg Foundation, a partner with communities where Children Come First, 562 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:50,360 Speaker 6: the Chan Zuckerberg Initiative, and the Heisin Simons Foundation Unlocking knowledge, 563 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 6: opportunity and possibilities more at hsfoundation dot org. 564 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 5: I was like, if we have to celebrate the Catholic 565 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,719 Speaker 5: holidays and the Jewish holidays, we're going to celebrate Black 566 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 5: holidays too. You ain't going to school for Black Solidarity Day, 567 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,439 Speaker 5: and don't worry about it. I'm not going to work either, 568 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:13,919 Speaker 5: and I'm going to teach you about being black. 569 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 1: I'm Maria no Josa. Next time on Latino USA. A 570 00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: year after its scheduled release in the Heights hits theaters 571 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,359 Speaker 1: across the country. I speak with director John M Two 572 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,480 Speaker 1: about why he thinks immigrant narratives deserve to be summer blockbusters. 573 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 5: The best parts are the struggle, because that's how you 574 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 5: see how tough everyone is. 575 00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:36,640 Speaker 4: That's how you see how much people care about each other. 576 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 4: That's next time on Latino USA.