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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newts World. Who is the real

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris and how did she ascend to the second

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Speaker 1: highest office in the country despite her limited experience in

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Speaker 1: national politics and confusing professional history. There hasn't been a

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Speaker 1: comprehensive examination of Vice President Kamala Harris's journey to the

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Speaker 1: White House until now. In his new book, Amateur Hour,

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Speaker 1: Kamala Harris and the White House, author Charlie Spearing delivers

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Speaker 1: the first ever deep dive into Kamala Harris's incompetent, radical

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Speaker 1: path to the vice presidency, from her tenure as California

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Speaker 1: Prosecutor to serving the United States Senate, to her failed

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Speaker 1: presidential campaign and finally her first year is in an

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Speaker 1: executive office as Vice President. Amateur Hour was published in

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Speaker 1: January this year, come a must read for everyone watching

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Speaker 1: the ascension of Vice President Harris to the Democratic nominee

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Speaker 1: for president. Here to discuss his new book, I'm really

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Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guest, Charlie Speary. He began his

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Speaker 1: career as a political journalist fifteen years ago as a

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Speaker 1: reporter for Washington Post columnist Robert Novak. He was a

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Speaker 1: political writer for The Washington Examiner before moving to bright

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Speaker 1: Bard News as a White House correspondent covering the Obama

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Speaker 1: administration and the Trump administration. Charlie, welcome and thank you

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Speaker 1: for joining me on Newts World.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me, mister speaker. It's a real honor.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's been a lot of reporting about various

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Speaker 1: aspects of Kamala Harris's life and political career since President

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Speaker 1: Biden announced he was no longer running in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four and she became the presumptive nominee of the Democrats ticket.

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Speaker 1: But I have to say your book is remarkable because

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Speaker 1: you tell her story from the very beginning. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about Harris's early life. Tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: about how she grew up, right.

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Speaker 2: I think most people know Kamala Harris's early life through

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Speaker 2: the lens of her debate moment with then Vice President

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden during the twenty twenty presidential campaign, when Kamala

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Speaker 2: Harris famously turned the former Vice president and spoke to

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Speaker 2: him about how difficult it was to grow up in

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Speaker 2: relatively liberal enclave of San Francisco and struggling with the

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Speaker 2: issue of racial segregation and public bussing, and how she

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Speaker 2: was the benefactor of that, and I think a lot

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Speaker 2: of people kind of saw that attack as disingenuous as

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Speaker 2: someone who, you know, as many people in California understood

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Speaker 2: her story, they didn't really see her painting herself as

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Speaker 2: a victim as very effective, because, you know, she did

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Speaker 2: grow up in a well to do neighborhood in San Francisco,

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Speaker 2: the daughter of two academics. You know, her father was

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Speaker 2: famously an economic professor for Stanford University and her mother

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Speaker 2: was a cancer researcher. And ultimately, even though they separated

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Speaker 2: when Kamala was still young, she still enjoyed sort of

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Speaker 2: the benefits of living in a very progressive, well to

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Speaker 2: do environment.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious because apparently from the very beginning, her parents

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Speaker 1: were part of the radical Afro American Association study group

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Speaker 1: at Berkeley, and in a sense, she was born into

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Speaker 1: her radicalism right.

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Speaker 2: She frequently talks about her parents as being progressive activists

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Speaker 2: who were out there marching and shouting for justice. But

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Speaker 2: looking back, it's a little more nuanced than that. They

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Speaker 2: spent more of their time in an academic set. You know,

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Speaker 2: her father, Donald Harris, was a pretty prominent voice for

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Speaker 2: economic studies and he held several Marxist views when it

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Speaker 2: came to economics. He was part of this study group,

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Speaker 2: which was pretty radical. It gave the rise to the

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Speaker 2: Black Panther Party and Black nationalism and the importance of

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Speaker 2: that movement during the civil rights era. So there was

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Speaker 2: a lot of intellectual underpinning. It's not just a simple

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Speaker 2: marching and shouting for justice, as Harris likes to talk about.

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Speaker 2: She frequently talks about her life, you know, being pushed

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Speaker 2: around in the stroller by her parents at some of

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Speaker 2: these protests, and even sort of changing her description of

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Speaker 2: that example. In her early years, she would talk about

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Speaker 2: how she used to fall out of her stroller when

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Speaker 2: her parents were pushing her around at these protests, and

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Speaker 2: then later in life she kind of changed that to

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Speaker 2: describe herself as strapped tightly in her stroller, much more

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Speaker 2: safe position. And then she would also talk about how

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Speaker 2: the rise of the civil rights movement sort of created

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Speaker 2: who she was, molded her into who she was. So

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Speaker 2: that's certainly a narrative she's pushed ever since she got

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Speaker 2: into national politics.

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Speaker 1: But as I understand it, her parents separated at five

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Speaker 1: and divorced when she was seven, and her mother Shayamala

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Speaker 1: Gopai Lan actually raised her exactly.

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Speaker 2: Kalina Harris describes herself as being raised by strong women.

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Speaker 2: Her single mom definitely raised her two daughters, but she

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Speaker 2: was also away at work a lot. Kamala talks a

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Speaker 2: lot about spending a lot of time on her own

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Speaker 2: or with a neighbor who they described as their second mother.

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Speaker 2: Her second mother, Regina Shelton, has the heritage of the

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Speaker 2: Black South, so Kala Harris leans on that an awful

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Speaker 2: lot when she's talking about black issues because her mother

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Speaker 2: is an Indian American, so she was described as the

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Speaker 2: first mother is off at work doing cancer research. Second

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Speaker 2: mother is raising Kamala and the girls in her spare time,

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Speaker 2: taking them to a Baptist church, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: She also went to the Shiva Vishnu Temple in Livermore,

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Speaker 1: which is a totally different experience from going to a

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Speaker 1: Baptist church.

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Speaker 2: Right Kamala's mother would talk about raising Harris in the

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Speaker 2: Hindu community when she was running for office in San Francisco,

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Speaker 2: which has a pretty prominent Indian community, so she kind

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Speaker 2: of leaned on both of these experiences. She talked about

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Speaker 2: going to Black Christian church and she also talked about

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Speaker 2: going to church at the Hindu temple and performing all

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Speaker 2: the different ceremonies when she was first inaugurated in her

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Speaker 2: first office. It was very much a combination of these

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Speaker 2: two shared life experiences.

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Speaker 1: When she's an early teenager, her mother gets a job

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Speaker 1: at McGill University, teaching in the medical department and researching

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Speaker 1: cancer at the Jewish General Hospital. So part of her

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Speaker 1: teenage yeers she spends in Montreal.

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Speaker 2: All exactly, and this is why some people sort of

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Speaker 2: attribute her inability to connect with the basic American experience

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Speaker 2: on this time that she spent in her formative years

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Speaker 2: in Montreal. Certainly, Canada is not the United States of America.

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Speaker 2: It's much different. And she went to a pretty well

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Speaker 2: off school in a well off neighborhood, and she had

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Speaker 2: a home and a pretty well off location. So she

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Speaker 2: experienced this life through much of her formative teenage years,

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Speaker 2: joining a dance troupe, experiencing high school and in dances,

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Speaker 2: and not many controversies in her early life as a teenager.

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Speaker 1: And of course Montreal was part of the Quebec, which

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Speaker 1: is a French speaking area, and she actually was sent

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Speaker 1: to a French School Notre Dame Denis, before she ended

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Speaker 1: up at Westmount High School, which she graduated from in Canada.

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Speaker 2: Right, this is not the normal experience of a public

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Speaker 2: school student in America. That she was attending some of

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Speaker 2: the more well off elite schools and getting a pretty

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Speaker 2: solid education.

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Speaker 1: So in your judgment, why does she then go to

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Speaker 1: college at Howard University, which is the oldest of the

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Speaker 1: historically black universities, founded right after the Civil War by

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Speaker 1: General Howard. Why do you think she picked Howard is

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Speaker 1: the place to go to?

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Speaker 2: She speaks fondly of this woman mentor that she had,

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Speaker 2: who she calls Aunt Christine, someone who had also been

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Speaker 2: to a historic black university and got a job as

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Speaker 2: a lawyer and moved into law. So Kamala when she's

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Speaker 2: growing up, she sees that path as a path to success,

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Speaker 2: something she can do easily shift into the law and

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Speaker 2: have a professional career that doesn't necessarily require being an

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Speaker 2: activist her family. She famously talks about her family being

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Speaker 2: surprised when they found out she was interested in moving

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Speaker 2: into law and becoming a public prosecutor. She always would

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Speaker 2: talk about defensive way that perhaps my decision to become

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Speaker 2: a prosecutor will give me the chance to perform the

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Speaker 2: system from the inside.

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Speaker 1: While she's at Howard, she manages to join the AKA Sorority,

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Speaker 1: And as I understand it, sororities like that in the

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Speaker 1: Black community play a much bigger role than they do

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Speaker 1: in the white community, and therefore, by being invited in,

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Speaker 1: she actually is in a network that will dramatically help

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Speaker 1: her over the years.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Kama Harris still has a very strong connection to

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Speaker 2: that sorority, which is not only just a friendship. It's

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Speaker 2: a very professional relationship with the different sisters of the sorority,

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Speaker 2: which is why she remains very close with the people

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Speaker 2: in the sorority. But it also kind of has that

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Speaker 2: guarded attempt of protecting each other and setting each other

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Speaker 2: up for financial and professional success. And just recently we

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Speaker 2: saw Harris deliver a speech to her sorority, choosing instead

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Speaker 2: to do that rather than attend maybe Netagnahu's speech in Congress.

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Speaker 2: That's one more example of how she values her sorority

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Speaker 2: more than most would as a lost aspect from a

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Speaker 2: college era.

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Speaker 1: And apparently she was able to do a telephone conference

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Speaker 1: call with some forty thousand black women sorority members around

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Speaker 1: the country. Not just that sorty, but the Divine Nine

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Speaker 1: came together so that all the major sororities and fraternities

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Speaker 1: seem to now be unified in their support for her.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, it's the kind of close knit professional network, not

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Speaker 2: very large, but very connected, especially in Washington, DC, as

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Speaker 2: we saw her as an African American politician move quickly

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Speaker 2: up the ladders of power and places of influence within

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Speaker 2: the Senate.

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Speaker 1: She graduates from Howard and then goes back across the

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Speaker 1: country and goes to the University of kal of Hastings

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Speaker 1: College of the Law, and then she has her first

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Speaker 1: major roadblock.

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Speaker 2: When she finally graduated. She took the bar and failed

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Speaker 2: the first time she tried, and she writes in her

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Speaker 2: memoir that she felt really disappointed, but she had only

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Speaker 2: delivered in what she called a quote half assed performance

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Speaker 2: in her entire life up to this point, so it

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Speaker 2: was really a point where she was met with failure

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Speaker 2: but still had a clerking position in the Almita County

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Speaker 2: District Attorney's office. They didn't push her out or fire

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Speaker 2: her because of her failure, and she was able to

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Speaker 2: retake the bar examine pass the second time.

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Speaker 1: Well, and technically it's not that unusual for someone to

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Speaker 1: fail the first time. That's not automatically a gigantic black mark.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting that she doesn't go into private sector law firms.

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Speaker 1: She doesn't pursue the big dollars. She goes into the

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Speaker 1: county district attorney's office. In that process, she's single. She

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Speaker 1: begins dating Willie Brown, who I think may have been

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Speaker 1: the smartest person ever to serve as Speaker in California.

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Speaker 1: Just a remarkable figure. He was Speaker of the House

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Speaker 1: in California for fifteen years from nineteen eighty to nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety five. She's twenty nine, Brown sixty. They have a

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Speaker 1: close relationship, and Brown appoints her to two positions in

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Speaker 1: state government that all told paid her more than four

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars over five years. A pretty good relationship

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Speaker 1: with giving her a launch right.

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Speaker 2: She took a sort of a six month leave of

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Speaker 2: absence from her Almita County job to join these positions

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Speaker 2: that Willie Brown appointed her too. While they were having

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Speaker 2: a relationship. He appointed her to the California Medical Assistance Commission,

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Speaker 2: which had two meetings a month for a ninety nine

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars annual salary, and then later she got another

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Speaker 2: position which paid another significant salary. So yeah, all told,

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Speaker 2: more than four hundred thousand dollars, which back in the

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Speaker 2: nineties you adjust that for inflation, it's nearly a million

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Speaker 2: dollars and just running these temporary state board positions and

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Speaker 2: all the while, Willy Brown also gave her the keys

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Speaker 2: to a BMW to help you drive her around and

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Speaker 2: conduct her business. So it was really not only a

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Speaker 2: financial leg up, but also a personal one as she

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Speaker 2: was dating Willy Brown, and Willie Brown opened the doors

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Speaker 2: for her to all the you know, the most well connected, powerful,

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Speaker 2: wealthy people in San Francisco, not just them, but all

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Speaker 2: the celebrities too, So he really opened the doors and

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Speaker 2: kicked off her political career just through this one year

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Speaker 2: relationship that he had with Kamala Harris when he was

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Speaker 2: running for mayor at the same time.

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Speaker 1: And in that period. Once he's mayor, Brown gets mad

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Speaker 1: at his district attorney, Terrence Helenon, and Harris decides to

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Speaker 1: run for DA and she wins, taking office in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and four with the strongest single person in the

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Speaker 1: city backing her.

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Speaker 2: Right It's a very interesting story, the story of Hollanan,

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Speaker 2: because Terrence Hollanan first hired Kamala Harris from Nyaomeda County.

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Speaker 2: When Brown won the position for mayor, it was widely

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Speaker 2: seen as a nod to the mayor, like I'm hiring

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Speaker 2: somebody who's in your orbit to work for me. But

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Speaker 2: when the Kamala Harris got to the office, she was

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Speaker 2: famously aggressive and abrasive with the employees there. She tried

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Speaker 2: to leave a coup against the second of command in

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Speaker 2: Hollanan's office, and ultimately that failed. She was unable to

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Speaker 2: push out sort of Holanan's deputy, prompting her to leave

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Speaker 2: the department entirely, take a job with the city attorney

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Speaker 2: and plot her revenge. So a few people were surprised

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Speaker 2: when Kamala Harris announced her decision to tackle Terence Hollanan

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Speaker 2: for the position of District Attorney in San Francisco. And

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Speaker 2: the campaign was famously, very very aggressive and very ugly,

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Speaker 2: as when two Democrats are fighting each other in a

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Speaker 2: very liberal and progressive town.

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Speaker 1: And it gives you some sense of how much Willy

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Speaker 1: Brown was invested. There's a quote from the San Francisco

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Speaker 1: neighborhood Newspaper Association. This is Willy Brown now quote that

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Speaker 1: son of a bit should have been recalled by the

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Speaker 1: very people who are currently outraged. I'm more disgusted than

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Speaker 1: you'll ever believe. And Brown then goes on to personally

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Speaker 1: give five hundred dollars to Harris's campaign and gives a

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Speaker 1: letter which political consultants use to raise money because Brown

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Speaker 1: is clearly, having been the longest serving speaker in the

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Speaker 1: history of California, is now clearly the most powerful single

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Speaker 1: person in San Francisco, and she basically was running his protege.

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Speaker 1: I mean, she can't get away from being his proteger.

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Speaker 2: It seems to me, right, She've struggled with this question

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Speaker 2: throughout her campaign, you know, because holland On and his

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Speaker 2: allies were pointing to Harris as you know, just Willy

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Speaker 2: Brown's former arm candy and kept saying that not only

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Speaker 2: was Willy Brown corrupt, but that Kamala Harris could be

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Speaker 2: corrupted by Willy Brown. Because Willie Brown was a very

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Speaker 2: powerful politician, but he also moved easily in the halls

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Speaker 2: of power and didn't let a few just like the

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Speaker 2: experience with Harris. So it shows you that he didn't

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Speaker 2: mind a little appearance of political impropriety. He was thoroughly

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Speaker 2: investigated by the FBI throughout his career, but he's never

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Speaker 2: charged with anything, showing he was pretty smart at how

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Speaker 2: he navigated those waters. But yeah, when it came time

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Speaker 2: for Harris to distance herself from Willie Brown, she ultimately

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Speaker 2: made the decision late in her campaign to throw Willy

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Speaker 2: Brown under the bus, working through this profile with San

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Speaker 2: Francisco Magazine, really the first time she publicly addressed the

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Speaker 2: Willy Brown problem that people were calling it, and really

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Speaker 2: just threw him under the bus, saying his career is over,

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Speaker 2: move on, he's in the past, it's time to move on.

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Speaker 2: And it was very effective in sort of turning the

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Speaker 2: California socialites against this sort of Willy Brown acts. And

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Speaker 2: for Kamala Harris as an independent politician, she.

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Speaker 1: Is so determined to erase Willie Brown's role in her

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Speaker 1: career that when she writes her twenty nineteen political memoir,

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Speaker 1: she doesn't mention him once. I mean, this is the

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Speaker 1: guy who picked her up, got her two great appointments,

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Speaker 1: helped her win the DA's job, and she doesn't mention

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Speaker 1: him one time. Right.

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Speaker 2: The Harris campaign famously has not addressed the Willy Brown

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Speaker 2: questions since this time. Anytime any reporter asks a question

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Speaker 2: about Willie Brown, her staff point to this magazine article

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Speaker 2: as the moment that she separated herself from Brown and

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Speaker 2: refuses to talk about it ever again. She really tried

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Speaker 2: to push Willy Brown completely out of her orbit, and

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Speaker 2: anytime that Willy Brown pipes up to talk about Kamala Harris,

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Speaker 2: it's not received well at all by Kamala Harris and

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Speaker 2: her team.

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Speaker 1: She's now the DA. What kind of a district attorney

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Speaker 1: was she?

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Speaker 2: During the campaign, she famously campaigned against Hollandan as sort

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Speaker 2: of an ineffective progressive. She would gather on the steps

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Speaker 2: with people of color, with women and victims of Hollanan's

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Speaker 2: failure to prosecute and really a campaign on him failing

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Speaker 2: women and minorities. And so her line on this was,

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Speaker 2: we don't have to be tough on crime or weak

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Speaker 2: on crime. We just have to be smart on crime.

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Speaker 2: That was her campaign message, campaigning a little bit to

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Speaker 2: the right of Terrence Hollanan. And at the same time,

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Speaker 2: after she won the office, she immediately shifted a little

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Speaker 2: more towards the progressive model that Hollanan had already enacted

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Speaker 2: right away. She was really criticized by the police department

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Speaker 2: after she failed to pursue the death penalty for a

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Speaker 2: cop kill her, something that really angered even the more

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Speaker 2: basic law and order of people in San Francisco. Even

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Speaker 2: Dianne Feinstein publicly criticized her decision during the funeral for

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Speaker 2: the police officer where she spoke. And so Harris really

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Speaker 2: started out of the gate as a very progressive prosecutor,

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Speaker 2: just like the one she replaced.

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Speaker 1: She does something else which is fascinating. She wants to

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Speaker 1: have a really high conviction rate, and she gets it

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Speaker 1: by simply not trying cases. So unless it's a slam dunk,

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Speaker 1: she's not going to take the risk. It seems to

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Speaker 1: me that the degree to what she was willing to

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Speaker 1: cut a deal with people who have were engaged in

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Speaker 1: homicide in order to minimize losing the cases, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of amazing, right.

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Speaker 2: We're kind of familiar with this practice now in the

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Speaker 2: smartn era of the George Soros funded prosecutors that people

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Speaker 2: pay attention to so much, but Harris really at this

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Speaker 2: point is specifically and she was called out in the

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Speaker 2: newspapers for this very interesting trend of juicing her conviction

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Speaker 2: rates by prosecuting less. And it was certainly a practice

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Speaker 2: that was done in the previous administration, but it was

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Speaker 2: something that she really polished up and used it to

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Speaker 2: promote her record and run for her future office.

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Speaker 1: So she's basically the pioneer of turning criminals back on

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Speaker 1: the street. While she's able to say, look at my

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Speaker 1: conviction record because she only tries people she can convict,

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Speaker 1: but she goes a step further. I was really surprised

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Speaker 1: by this. This is a tribute to your research that

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Speaker 1: as early as two thousand and eight she's promoting San

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Speaker 1: Francisco as a sanctuary city. Can you talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. I think most California politicians, despite their

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Speaker 2: basic attempts to portray themselves as smart on crime, they

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Speaker 2: very much understand the importance of being a sanctuary city.

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Speaker 2: She and at the time Mayor Gavin Newsom were also

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Speaker 2: focused on preserving this idea that you know, a sanctuary

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Speaker 2: city was going to continue in San Francisco. Her record

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Speaker 2: on immigration is also very interesting because she famously had

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Speaker 2: this reform program allowing you know, some of these first

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Speaker 2: time offenders to get into a program that would help

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Speaker 2: them find a career and move on and reform their

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Speaker 2: lives instead of going to prison, and to move on

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Speaker 2: and try to find employment and education. This program famously

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Speaker 2: had issues because illegal immigrants were being put into this

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Speaker 2: program and some of these illegals were going on to

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Speaker 2: commit further crime, So it was also a politically thorny

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Speaker 2: issue for her program.

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Speaker 1: So in a way, though, she's the forerunner of what

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Speaker 1: will happen under Biden, and she's already doing it.

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Speaker 2: Herself exactly the Biden policy of just allowing illegal immigrants

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Speaker 2: and migrants to freely flow the border, and that's already

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Speaker 2: completely baked in the California politics.

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Speaker 1: You know something I don't understand here, Maybe you can

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Speaker 1: explain California to me. She's soft on murderers because she

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Speaker 1: wants to have a good cre miction rate, so she

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Speaker 1: cuts all sorts of deals. And in fact, I think

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Speaker 1: based on your research, she gets a backlog of seventy

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Speaker 1: three homicide cases, she cuts a deal for thirty two

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Speaker 1: of them, and she only convicts fifteen out of seventy three.

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Speaker 1: So in the one hand, she's being soft she's soft

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Speaker 1: on the legal immigrants and wants San Francisco to be

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Speaker 1: a sanctuary city. And then she talks about prosecuting parents

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Speaker 1: of truant children, threatening them with a twenty five hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars fine and up to a year in jail. How

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Speaker 1: do you balance out, I'm going to lock up your

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Speaker 1: parents if you don't come to school, and by the way,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to release the murderer down the street. And

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Speaker 1: I don't mind if there are legal immigrants here because

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Speaker 1: we're a sanctuary city. That's a pretty complicated message, right.

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Speaker 2: Harris started pursuing this idea as she's began eyeing statewide

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Speaker 2: office in California. You famously have to choose your political

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Speaker 2: alliances just right, so that you're a little to the

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Speaker 2: right of a radical leftist but a little to the

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Speaker 2: left of a potential Republican challenger. So this is right

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Speaker 2: before her decision to run for attorney General, and she

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Speaker 2: makes this decision, and she notes that it was very

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Speaker 2: controversial among her staff to make this decision to prosecute

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Speaker 2: parents for truant children. And the big thing was is

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Speaker 2: she was out there promoting this as part of her

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Speaker 2: smart on crime agenda. Using it to sort of appeal

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Speaker 2: to parents of different political stripes, even though she was

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Speaker 2: threatening them with the fine. It was all in favor

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Speaker 2: of this idea that social activism through government to get

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Speaker 2: more people into schools so that there was less crime.

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Speaker 2: Noting that true and children were more likely to commit crimes.

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Speaker 2: The solution, she says, was to sort of terrorized and

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Speaker 2: frightened parents with the threat of jail time with this

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Speaker 2: idea that they needed to send their truant children to school,

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Speaker 2: and there was some moderate decreases of true in children

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Speaker 2: after this, allowing her to promote this as a major

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Speaker 2: success for her smart on crime persona.

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Speaker 1: In the middle of all this, there's a huge scandal

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Speaker 1: on her second term as DA which involves the crime lab.

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Speaker 1: Can you describe what happened and why it was a

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Speaker 1: big deal.

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Speaker 2: During her second term, there was a crime worker who

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Speaker 2: was convicted and jailed for domestic violence and chronic absences,

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Speaker 2: and the prosecutors in her department knew her work was

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Speaker 2: unreliable and sort of flagged their office. And then there

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Speaker 2: were also reports of this employee skimming cocaine from the

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Speaker 2: drug lab for her personal use. And so this is

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Speaker 2: currently going on, and the District Attorney's office is aware

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Speaker 2: of it, and then suddenly only the city's head public

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Speaker 2: defender finds out about this and blast Harris's office for

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Speaker 2: failing to disclose this. Because if you have somebody like this,

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Speaker 2: then there are an unreliable person witness to participate into

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Speaker 2: a criminal trial. So when Harris was confronted with this,

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Speaker 2: she claimed that she had no idea what was going on,

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Speaker 2: even though her top staff had been emailed this information,

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Speaker 2: and Harris has thoroughly no record about doing this or

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Speaker 2: even knowing about it. She claims she knows nothing about it.

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Speaker 2: This leaves hundreds of cases on the book, these drug cases.

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Speaker 2: They are suddenly in jeopardy because the District Attorney's office

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Speaker 2: didn't reveal this unreliable crime lab worker. And as each

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Speaker 2: case gets resolved, it's over and over and over again

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Speaker 2: more of these cases are being challenged, and instead of

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Speaker 2: addressing it directly, Harris famously just dismissed all cases involving

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Speaker 2: this crime lab worker and just cutting it off quickly

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Speaker 2: so she could move past the scandal. But at the

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Speaker 2: same time, police officers who had delivered like these significant

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Speaker 2: cases against major drug crime criminals suddenly those cases were dismissed,

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Speaker 2: even some already in prison who had already been convicted.

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Speaker 2: She suddenly vacates them all and gets thrown out.

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Speaker 1: So her in ability to manage leads to a huge

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Speaker 1: scandal that releases an amazing number of drug dealers. But

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Speaker 1: now in the middle of all this, while she has

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Speaker 1: some local problems, she also is being to have a

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Speaker 1: relationship that will ultimnly really matter, and that's with Barack Obama.

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Speaker 1: Can you describe how she and Obama related in the

440
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: early stages of his presidency.

441
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 2: Kamala Harris was one of the few California politicians. She

442
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: was already seen as a rising star, but she was

443
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: already someone who had decided to endorse Barack Obama when

444
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: he was first running for office instead of Hillary Clinton,

445
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: which most of the California politicians sided with Clinton because

446
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,439
Speaker 2: they had a very powerful operation in state, but Harris

447
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 2: famously endorsed Obama instead. She even went to Iowa and

448
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: spent time with Obama helping campaign for him. This is

449
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,719
Speaker 2: the local district attorney. But Obama rewarded her quite well

450
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 2: because of her loyalty, and when he ended up winning,

451
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: Harris really saw this experience as a chance to further

452
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 2: bolster her political career going up in California.

453
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 1: So in that process she ends up getting invited to

454
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: a White House state dinner for the Indian Prime Minister. Right.

455
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: This was in two thousand and nine, so it was

456
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: just one more example of how Harris was very good

457
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:58,800
Speaker 2: at networking and leveraging her political alliances to get top

458
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 2: billing as a potential future Democratic star.

459
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 1: Now she takes a real gamble, it seems to me,

460
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,239
Speaker 1: in deciding to run stay wide for Attorney General. I mean,

461
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 1: California is a huge state. To win stay wide is

462
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: not a small thing. What's your take on Kamala Harris

463
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: as the statewide candidate back.

464
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: Then, she substantially positioned herself just enough, not necessarily as

465
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 2: radical as she was when she first started her office,

466
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 2: but she really worked towards being a little more right

467
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: of left, I guess we could say as she decided

468
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: to challenge Steve Cooley for the position of Attorney General

469
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: of California. Steve Cooley is probably the last remaining Republican

470
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 2: in California that actually.

471
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: Had a lot of political clout, So for her to

472
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 3: tackle Cooley was a real difficult race, and it was

473
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 3: a real good year for Democrats because it was a

474
00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 3: year that Democrats outperformed for public Wilkins all across the

475
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 3: board in California.

476
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: But her race with Kooley was significantly the margin was

477
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: very very slim. In fact, she believed that she lost

478
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 2: her first race for Attorney General when on election day

479
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: and even papers had already declared Koley the winner. It

480
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 2: wasn't until three weeks later, when all the votes were

481
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: counted and all the ballots were recounted, did they finally

482
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 2: declare Harris the winner, just winning by a very very

483
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 2: slim margin.

484
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: So her gamble paid off. She must have been reasonably

485
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 1: competent just to survive stay wide, even if she survived

486
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: by a narrow margin, and it's a hugely complex state.

487
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: She then gets re elected, She gets elected to the

488
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: US Senate again. How did that work.

489
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,959
Speaker 2: Out at the time when she was looking for her

490
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: next political career. Obviously, after she was re elected as

491
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 2: Attorney General and she announced her plans for her political

492
00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: future shortly after her inauguration, she didn't even spend much

493
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 2: time because there was a unique opportunity and her and

494
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom at the time were both sort of eyeing

495
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: this idea of running for California governor. Many California Democrats

496
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: were not happy with this idea because they were two

497
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: very popular rising Democrats and the last thing they wanted

498
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 2: was to see this ugly collision as they fought it

499
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: out in a potential primary for Democratic governor. At this time,

500
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 2: suddenly Senator Barbara Boxert announces her decision to resign from

501
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: her seat and step down. That sort of opens up

502
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 2: a release valve. In this sort of pressurized environment, Kamala

503
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 2: Harris makes it very clear that she wants to run

504
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 2: for the Senate office. She goes out right away and

505
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: issues a statement saying that she will run, much to

506
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: the relief of Gavin Newsom, who had his own political

507
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: ambitions at home. For Harris, it seemed like it was

508
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 2: a bit of a calculation, right, And if I can

509
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 2: run and win a race for Senate, maybe this would

510
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,280
Speaker 2: be a better place to pursue my political career rather

511
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 2: than getting boughted down in the governatorial aspects of California

512
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 2: and trying to run for future office as a governor

513
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 2: of California. Maybe I can go the Obama route, right

514
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 2: and pursue higher office through the Senate. She Aarny had

515
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: all of the Democratic donors, the top Democratic strategists on

516
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: her side, so she was able to run pretty effectively

517
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 2: against another Democrat and easily beat her in the primary.

518
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: And essentially San Francisco Mafiad divided up. One of them

519
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: get to be governor, the other one gets to be

520
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: the US Senator. And she had a lot of supportment

521
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,959
Speaker 1: to her credit, she had a ton of people favoring her,

522
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean Elizabeth Warren, Corey Booker, Kirsten gillibrand or all

523
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: on her side. I think she clearly has support from

524
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: the Obama administration, which had one point asked her if

525
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: she wanted to be Attorney General of the United States.

526
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: So there's a certain affection there apparently, And in the

527
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 1: end she got to be the senator. But as you reported,

528
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,239
Speaker 1: once she's in the Senate, she actually doesn't work as

529
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: a senator. She is sort of following the Obama model

530
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: of focusing on running for president. You don't need to

531
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: be a very good senator if you don't intend to be.

532
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: There, right I think fellow senators saw right away that.

533
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 2: Certainly during her victory speech in California was a time

534
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 2: of great sorrow for the Democratic Party because in twenty sixteen,

535
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: Donald Trump beat Hillary Clinton for the presidency, and so

536
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 2: Harris quickly rewrote her victory speech to you know, not

537
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 2: only declare victory, but really position herself for future power.

538
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: She famously told Democrats not to lose, hope, to fight,

539
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 2: and that she was going to Washington to continue this

540
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: fight against the Trump administration and urged Democrats not to

541
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: be sad or fearful, and that she was going to

542
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: be the sort of the new superhero of this Democratic

543
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 2: fight to oppose Donald Trump and his agenda. And when

544
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 2: she first arrived in Washington, she was among the very

545
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 2: prominent group of senators, you know, as a newly elected senator.

546
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: She was there to participate in the Women's March, declaring

547
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 2: her intention to continue fighting for women and women's issues,

548
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: and again, you know, trying to rally the Democratic Party.

549
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: So early on, she had this sort of mantra that

550
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: she was going to be this sort of the fighting

551
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: future of the Democratic Party now that they had lost

552
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton.

553
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: And in the same time, she's very close to Bernie Sanders.

554
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 1: She's sort of moving from the left to the further

555
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: left in this process.

556
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 2: Exactly at this point, I think Harris and her advisors

557
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 2: are purposely positioning herself to the left, thinking that if

558
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: I can just get as far left as Bernie Sanders

559
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 2: without actually being Bernie Sanders, Democrat primary voters will reward

560
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 2: me for this. And you know, it's not necessarily a

561
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 2: problem if you're the Senator of California, because if you

562
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: pursue all of these controversial issues, your voter you're back

563
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: at home, aren't going to punish you. They're going to

564
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 2: tend to agree with you. At least of a majority

565
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: of the voters there will agree with you. So Harris

566
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 2: spends a lot of time in her first years of

567
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 2: the Senate no leftist position is too radical for her

568
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: to pick up and run with, really doing everything she

569
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: can to sort of endear herself with a sort of

570
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,360
Speaker 2: more radical Democratic primary voters.

571
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: I mean, she's not there very long before she turns

572
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 1: right around and on January twenty first, twenty nineteen, she's

573
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 1: on Good Morning America announcing she's running for president. That

574
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: lasts not quite a year. What do you think happened?

575
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,920
Speaker 1: I mean, she's been a decent candidate in California in boom.

576
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,760
Speaker 1: Somehow she melts and she kicks off with like twenty

577
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,760
Speaker 1: thousand people in Oakland. So you'd think she's reasonably popular,

578
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: she's reasonably good organizer, and then for eleven months she

579
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: just keeps decaying what do you think happened? Right?

580
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: I think that Kamala Harris failed to properly lead her

581
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: presidential campaign. She didn't necessarily have a deep seated vision

582
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 2: for why she was running. She was just looking for

583
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: power for power's sake. She relied too much on her consultants,

584
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,800
Speaker 2: who had helped her greatly in California. It properly coached

585
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,720
Speaker 2: her up, got her ready for battle, spent significant funds

586
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 2: on TV advertising, which makes a great deal of difference

587
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 2: in California, which is a massive media market, and I

588
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 2: think she tried to use those same strength in a

589
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:21,719
Speaker 2: presidential primary. Well, you know as well as I do.

590
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 2: You can't just go to Iowa and paper the local

591
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 2: television network with ads and talk about how great you

592
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: are unless you go to all of these events and

593
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 2: have a personal connection with the voters and speak to

594
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 2: them as if you care about their votes. I think

595
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 2: she ran into what so many senators ran into during

596
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 2: this cycle, and Harris was not the only sort of

597
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 2: senator who thought that they could be the next Obama.

598
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 2: There were a whole host of Democratic senators who went

599
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 2: to Iowa thinking that they could endear themselves to Iowa

600
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: voters to become the new figurehead of the Democratic Party.

601
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 2: But so many of them failed, not only because they

602
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: were splitting time between their job in the Senate and

603
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: their time in Iowa, but really had lost the ability.

604
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if even Harris had the ability to

605
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: really speak to voters in a genuine, authentic way and

606
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: connect with them in a way that boosted her support.

607
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: She certainly had the support of all the Democratic elite

608
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 2: media people and the Democratic donors. People saw her as

609
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 2: a real threat to the Trump campaign and certainly to

610
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 2: her Democratic colleagues. She ultimately found herself struggling trying to

611
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: reboot her campaign on several different occasions, and one of

612
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 2: those attempts was when she famously clashed with Joe Biden

613
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 2: during the primary debate in the summer of twenty nineteen.

614
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: Given her role in the elites of San Francisco, I

615
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: would think that around the Cora, Iowa, or Sioux City

616
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: or whatever would be an interesting experience then probably not

617
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: be in her strength. Nonetheless, she doesn't seem to do

618
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: all that well in the debates, and money drives up

619
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: and she disappears. I'm not sure I thought that that very,

620
00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: very weak performance in nineteen would lead to becoming the

621
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: vice presidential candidate in twenty.

622
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 2: Right, it was shocking that she was once considered among

623
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: the top candidates in the twenty nineteen primary and ended

624
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: up having to end her campaign before the Iowa caucuses

625
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 2: even began, and a lot of people speculated that she

626
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: didn't want to lose by an enormous margin in California,

627
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 2: her home state. There was also reports of infighting staff

628
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: furious with the direction of the campaign, different advisors pointing

629
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 2: fingers at other people to blame, and ultimately Harris sort

630
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 2: of ran out of money and just had to call

631
00:37:56,239 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: it quits. So she really finished off her presidential campaign

632
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: in a much weaker place. But at the same time,

633
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 2: there was also this simmering issue going forward with the

634
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,240
Speaker 2: Black Lives Matter riots and the summer of twenty twenty

635
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 2: that sort of gave her a possible opening when it

636
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: came to Biden, the Democratic nominee to choose his running mate.

637
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 1: It was a rumor that the deal that was offered

638
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: by the Democratic whip in South Carolina was it if

639
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,600
Speaker 1: Biden would pick Harris, that he would make sure he

640
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: won South Carolina. If he won South Carolina, he would

641
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: go on to win the nomination.

642
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: I don't think it was necessarily Kamala Harris per se,

643
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 2: but clyburn leaned very heavily on Biden that now was

644
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 2: the time to choose a woman of color to serve

645
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 2: as a running mate as a vice presidential candidate. He

646
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,840
Speaker 2: saw that as a perfect opening for Biden. He certainly

647
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: got Biden exacted a promise by Biden to appoint a

648
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: woman of color to the Supreme Court, and then Biden

649
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,799
Speaker 2: ultimately during the primary debates, promised that he would pick

650
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 2: a woman running mate before he was finally nominated in

651
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 2: the primary process.

652
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: Do we have any notion of where Obama was in

653
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: this process.

654
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 2: It's very interesting because when Biden's looking at different candidates,

655
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,720
Speaker 2: he obviously vowed to pick a woman as a running mate,

656
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: but then there's a lot of pressure from Clyburne and

657
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 2: African American activists to pick a woman of color. Certainly,

658
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 2: the Biden family had long appreciated Harris, but until the

659
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 2: debate moment in the twenty nineteen summer when she famously saying,

660
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,239
Speaker 2: I don't believe you're a racist, but you're kind of

661
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 2: a racist for working with segregationist senators and pursuing and

662
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 2: opposing ideas of public blessing, the Biden family was not

663
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 2: a Kammalin Harris fan, even though she was a significant

664
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 2: candidate on the stage as someone who had run for

665
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,799
Speaker 2: president had been thoroughly examined. So Biden was considering other

666
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 2: African American candidates, and certainly Nancy Pelosi offered other choices

667
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 2: such as val Demings. Even the Biden family is willing

668
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,800
Speaker 2: to consider former National Security advisor for President Obama Susan Rice,

669
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 2: actually on top of Biden's list as they continued on

670
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: their search. But certainly Obama had appreciated Kamala Harris from

671
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 2: the past, and he's reports note that he did a

672
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:20,520
Speaker 2: good job advocating for her. For Biden to let go

673
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: of the past and select her despite everything between them.

674
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,120
Speaker 1: So when she ends up as a nominee and then

675
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: as they win the election, what kind of vice president

676
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: is she?

677
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 2: Initially well, initially they sort of kicked off the idea

678
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 2: of COVID recovery and getting the vaccine distributed, and so

679
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 2: she's very much sort of thrust in this position where

680
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,400
Speaker 2: the president wants her to focus on pushing the vaccine

681
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 2: to the black community. And so a big part of

682
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 2: her first few months are acting in this role where

683
00:40:57,320 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 2: she's a little bit thin skinned and upset that she's

684
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: sort of targeted with these issues, you know, the sort

685
00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: of the women's issues and the issues in that matter

686
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: to people of color. But at the same time, she's

687
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:11,280
Speaker 2: trying to work and be a good partner despite everything

688
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 2: that she's experienced. Ultimately, when the Biden administration really needed

689
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 2: her to take tough issues off of his plate, that's

690
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 2: when Harris sort of goes rogue.

691
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: Do they get closer together or further apart in this process?

692
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 2: Further apart? I think in the beginning, Joe Biden felt

693
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: like he wanted a body vice president, someone who could

694
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 2: really work hand in hand and work together on his issues,

695
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 2: But he soon discovered that Harris was not interested in

696
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 2: helping him or take the lead on his issues. She

697
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: had a very survival instinct, working to protect her political

698
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 2: brand from that of Biden's political brand so famously this

699
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 2: sort of took root, or first revealed itself during the

700
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 2: entire conversation over the migrant crisis, which you know, had

701
00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 2: already reached its peak. Well maybe not its peak, but

702
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 2: it had already reached a significant problem in the first

703
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: few months of their administration.

704
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: Part of what seems to be going on is just

705
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: share chaos. I mean, she had something like a nine

706
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 1: turnover rated staff in her first three years. Isn't that

707
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 1: sort of extraordinary?

708
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 2: Right in Washington, people are willing to put up with

709
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: a certain amount of abuse if your boss is rising

710
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: and actually doing well, and you can certainly make an

711
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: argument for why you should stick in the position if

712
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 2: you want to build up your political profile. But in

713
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 2: this case, Harris was so difficult to work for. You know,

714
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 2: there were reports of her being famously demanding. She would

715
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: ridicule and bully the staff. There were instances where she

716
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 2: failed to do the proper preparations for an event or

717
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: a speech, and then would rate her staff when she

718
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: made mistakes. So that prompted what we see now as

719
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 2: ninety two percent of staff to leave her office. And

720
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 2: even just in the first eighteen months, there was already

721
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:08,640
Speaker 2: a significant staff turnover, and that really led a lot

722
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 2: of people in Washington to sort of write her off

723
00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,120
Speaker 2: as someone who is a political novice and wasn't ready

724
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: for the job.

725
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: She also had this strange laugh, which I think became

726
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:23,239
Speaker 1: a liability because it made her seem like she was

727
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: a lightweight.

728
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 2: I talk to people about the laugh a lot because

729
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:30,400
Speaker 2: it's defining part of Kamala Harris, and certainly her critics

730
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,439
Speaker 2: sort of to ride her for her cackle. But it's

731
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,760
Speaker 2: not unusual for a politician to have an annoying laugh

732
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 2: or a laugh that isn't appreciated by the wide spectrum

733
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 2: of the American people. But it's how you use that laugh,

734
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,319
Speaker 2: and in Harris's situation, she frequently used her laugh to

735
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,760
Speaker 2: sort of laugh off tough questions. And there are multiple

736
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,760
Speaker 2: incidentss of her in her vice president and she's approached

737
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 2: by reporters or when she was doing a real interview

738
00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: with television anchors, when they would ask her some of

739
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: these tough questions, she would usually laugh and shrug her

740
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: shoulders in a way to try to disarm these questions.

741
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 2: But it really came off as kind of as if

742
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 2: she wasn't taking the issue seriously. So it's a very

743
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 2: bad look for a politician who's trying to make a

744
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: name for themselves.

745
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: It made her look like a lightweight. And then you

746
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: get into this strange question of was she the borders are?

747
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:28,799
Speaker 1: Not the borders are? What did it mean to take

748
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: the lead on diplomatic work with Mexico, out Salvador, watermelon hunters,

749
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 1: and now of Quesse. You have the news media desperately

750
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 1: trying to backtrack and literally in some cases eliminating their archives.

751
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything quite like it to go back

752
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: and take out the article use the term borders are

753
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 1: because they were trying to prove she wasn't the borders are.

754
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,480
Speaker 1: As you looked at all that material during the period

755
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: it was happening, what did you think.

756
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was during the first few months of the

757
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:06,000
Speaker 2: Biden presidency. There was this issue of the unaccompanied migrants

758
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: and the migrants flooding across the border, and it was

759
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 2: a major issue, and the Biden administration initially tried to

760
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: say it wasn't a crisis, it wasn't a problem until

761
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 2: it got so bad that was very clearly a crisis

762
00:45:17,239 --> 00:45:20,720
Speaker 2: and that they needed to sort of appoint point person

763
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 2: on this, and you know, being in Washington, you can

764
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 2: at some point an administration has to take action and

765
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: pretend like they have heard the complaints and have seen

766
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: the leadership void and are now prepared to act to

767
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:38,719
Speaker 2: fix a problem. And in this case, Team Biden immediately

768
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,760
Speaker 2: thinks of Kamala Harris as the solution and look, she's

769
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 2: had time living in a border state. Maybe she can

770
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: go and take the lead on this, just like Vice

771
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 2: President Joe Biden did for Barack Obama. Famously, Obama appointed

772
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,479
Speaker 2: him to also take the lead on immigration to work

773
00:45:54,520 --> 00:45:58,879
Speaker 2: on solving some of these root causes. And the term

774
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 2: borders are is not an official position, and usually when

775
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 2: you're seen as a czar right, this is sort of

776
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: a media title given to the point person of an

777
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 2: administration who's going to take the issue seriously. And it's

778
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 2: happened throughout our history where you know this person is

779
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: there to take the issue off the president's plate so

780
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: he can continue without the political difficulties.

781
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,919
Speaker 1: Just based on what you saw in the period that

782
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: this was going on, is it fair to say that

783
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:28,960
Speaker 1: she had been appointed borders are right?

784
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,600
Speaker 2: Because the Biden administration pushed her forward to take the

785
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 2: lead on the issue, primarily by sending her to Guatemala,

786
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: where she delivered the Biden administration's message to the migrants there,

787
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: do not come. Do not come. I believe that if

788
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: you will become, you will be turned away. That's what

789
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 2: she said during the press conference. Well, the migrants obviously

790
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 2: didn't see that as an authentic message, coming over even quicker,

791
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: and so the Biden administration put her in these positions,

792
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 2: certainly to do an interview with Lester Holt of NBC

793
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 2: to make the case that the Biden mission was taking

794
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,399
Speaker 2: the issues seriously. She famously said, yes, I haven't been

795
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 2: to the border, but I haven't been to Europe either,

796
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:09,240
Speaker 2: and sort of laughed off that question.

797
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,800
Speaker 1: Did that strike you as weird?

798
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 2: Yes? Democrats also found this unbelievable because Republicans have been

799
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: asking this question for months and she wasn't even prepared

800
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,600
Speaker 2: to answer the simplest stuff questions during the interview.

801
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: I didn't mind the first half of the answer. No,

802
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: I'm not done. But to have this pivot and I

803
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: haven't been to Europe, you have to wonder what was

804
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: the synaptic process in her brain.

805
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 2: Staffers had prepared her for a completely different answer, but

806
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,400
Speaker 2: this was one she came off on the fly. Experienced

807
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 2: politicians in Washington were not impressed by that performance.

808
00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: We're trying to figure out a language to describe one

809
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: aspect of her that's really, I think, different than any

810
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 1: vice president I can remember, and that is the degree

811
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: to which at times she's just unpresidential. I mean, you

812
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: can't quite imagine a serious person doing this. The first

813
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: thing I want to race. I think this is all weird. Charlie.

814
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: She gets off on ven diagrams, and listen to her

815
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,120
Speaker 1: describe the depth of her love of Venn diagrams.

816
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 4: I love ven diagrams.

817
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 2: I really do.

818
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,839
Speaker 4: I love ven diagrams. It's just something about those three

819
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 4: circles and the analysis about where there is the intersection. Right.

820
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 4: Remember Van diagrams, those three circles, right, and then let's

821
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,360
Speaker 4: just see where they overlap. You will not be surprised

822
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 4: because I have constructed a Venn diagram on this. Remember

823
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 4: those three circles, how they overlap. I love ven diagrams,

824
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:40,919
Speaker 4: So I just do whenever you're dealing with conflict, pull

825
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 4: out a Van diagram, right, and so you know the

826
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 4: three circles and so I so I asked my jam right,

827
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 4: the fifty cans. Right, he sees the Venn diagram of

828
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 4: it all. He sees that there are those circles, and

829
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 4: maybe people seem that they're a little different. They live

830
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,640
Speaker 4: in different parts of the country. They may be different

831
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 4: age or different race, but that area in the overlap.

832
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: No, I ask you what did that mean? What is

833
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 1: going on in her brain at that point?

834
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 2: She has sort of these crutches that she will lean on,

835
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 2: and she often refers to these things during a panel

836
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: discussion or when there isn't a scripted teleprompter speech, but

837
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 2: she's having a discussion panel and one of her crutches

838
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:24,440
Speaker 2: was talking about ven diagrams, because if you can visualize

839
00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 2: a ven diagram, then she could put three different issues

840
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 2: and try to combine them in a way that would

841
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 2: make sense to her audience. But it became such a

842
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 2: big crutch people started noticing and started pulling out the

843
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 2: different times she kept leaning on this idea of trying

844
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 2: to publicly draw a Venn diagram in front of an audience.

845
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: That's a very monumental rhetorical task. Certainly, Harris started to

846
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: do it a little more less as it became more

847
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: and more laughable.

848
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: During a White House reception for Women's History Month in

849
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: March or twenty twenty three, she goes on over the place.

850
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:01,720
Speaker 1: Listen to her for a second.

851
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:05,800
Speaker 4: So during Women's History Month, we celebrate and we honor

852
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 4: the women who made history throughout history, who saw what

853
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 4: could be, unburdened by what had been. We see the suffragists,

854
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 4: the riveters, the marchers, the mothers and sisters and aunts

855
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 4: and grandmothers and daughters, all the giants upon whose broad

856
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 4: shoulders we stand. For generations, women have continued to make

857
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:41,239
Speaker 4: incredible progress in the classroom and the workplace, in the

858
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 4: halls of government, and we are all here evidence of

859
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 4: that progress.

860
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,879
Speaker 1: I mean. She has this tendency to use words repetitively,

861
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: as if repeating them somehow gives them meaning.

862
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 2: Right, that's exactly right. How she gets caught up in

863
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 2: these kinds of what's described as word salads by people

864
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 2: who sort of monitor her public speeches. And in this

865
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 2: she continues to offer more and more independent clauses on

866
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 2: her sentences to try to emphasize her point. But the

867
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,879
Speaker 2: more she drops more and more dependent clauses, then her

868
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 2: sentence becomes very burdened down with all of her different

869
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 2: words in spite of her constantly repeating herself. This is

870
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 2: what ends her up with this reputation of if she's

871
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 2: speaking off the cough, it tends to spiral into word

872
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 2: silence and it's not a good look.

873
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: Well, my favorite, I think, just because it could almost

874
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,359
Speaker 1: be a scene from a comedy, is Harris trying to

875
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: explain artificial intelligence. This is this for a second to

876
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 1: the Vice President's explanation of artificial intelligence.

877
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 4: And I think the first part of this issue that

878
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,839
Speaker 4: should be articulated is AI is kind of a fancy thing.

879
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 4: It's for Swell's two letters. It means artificial intelligence.

880
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 5: But ultimately what it is is it's about machine learning, and.

881
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 4: So the machine is taught.

882
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 5: And part of the issue here is what information is

883
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 5: going into the machine that will then determine and we

884
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 5: can predict then if we think about what information is.

885
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 4: Going in, what then will be produced in terms of

886
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,440
Speaker 4: decisions and opinions that may be made through that process.

887
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 1: How do you explain this?

888
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really hard. It's a scene where she's speaking

889
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: to experts in the AI scene, but somehow feels like

890
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: it's necessary for her to define each word as if

891
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,359
Speaker 2: these industry leaders in AI don't necessarily understand what they're

892
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 2: there for. So it's one case of not understanding your audience.

893
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 2: In public speaking, right, there's always this option like how

894
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 2: do I make an impact on my public speech by

895
00:52:57,239 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 2: defining each term individually? And this is kind of what

896
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 2: happens to lawyers and prosecutors who moved into politics. They

897
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 2: tend to focus too much time trying to define the

898
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 2: words that they're using, rather than using the words in

899
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 2: a very passionate and approachable way.

900
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, in terms of the current events,

901
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,880
Speaker 1: were you surprised when Biden stepped down and endorsed Tyris

902
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: to take on the nomination.

903
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 2: Yes. We published this book in January, and so we

904
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:27,839
Speaker 2: had the idea that this was a possibility, and even

905
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 2: in our introduction we wrote sort of what it would

906
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 2: look like when Biden and his advisers realized it was

907
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 2: time to go, and the fears that would be in

908
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 2: their minds as they were realizing that Kala Harris was

909
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: going to take his place. We successfully predicted that. I

910
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: don't think I was ever prepared for it to happen

911
00:53:47,600 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 2: so quickly before the election, and so rapidly to have

912
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 2: Biden endorse her in the same breath, And.

913
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,880
Speaker 1: Were you surprised at how rapidly the left hand the

914
00:53:57,920 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: Democratic Party closed ranks.

915
00:54:00,600 --> 00:54:02,960
Speaker 2: I was, which suggests that there was a little bit

916
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 2: of work behind the scenes, certainly not by Harris herself,

917
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 2: but by the party apparatus at large. I believe that

918
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 2: they were sort of encouraged to get behind Harris, and

919
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,239
Speaker 2: that there was definitely a right of succession that they

920
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 2: preferred rather than a messy nomination process. I think Democrats

921
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 2: are known for wanting to keep things neat and tidy

922
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: without it devolving into a populist mess.

923
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 1: You've studied Kamala Harris as Canaida for the district Attorney Canada,

924
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: for Attorney General Canada, for the Senate candidate for president.

925
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 1: Do you think that we are likely to see the

926
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris who couldn't survive the first year of being

927
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,200
Speaker 1: a candidate for president? Or do you think she has

928
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: between what she's learned over the last four years plus

929
00:54:46,680 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: the sheer quality of the Obama team which is now

930
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,759
Speaker 1: going to come in and help her, do you think

931
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: she becomes dramatically more formidable than her past record would imply.

932
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 2: It's difficult because in this modern era, one of the

933
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,840
Speaker 2: most powerful aspects of your candidacy is the ability to

934
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,160
Speaker 2: be authentic, and Kamala Harris doesn't have that ability to

935
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 2: be authentic. She's very risk averse, and she's been very

936
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,480
Speaker 2: focused on staying on script. Just in the past couple

937
00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:16,799
Speaker 2: of years, gone are the word salad's gone to these

938
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: moments of approachability or her attempt to reach out and

939
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 2: connect with voters. It's completely gone. So effectively, you have

940
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,239
Speaker 2: the Biden campaign running their basement strategy, right keep him

941
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,320
Speaker 2: in the basement, get him on camera as infrequently as possible,

942
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 2: keep him from making mistakes. She's effectively running that same

943
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 2: basement campaign when she has no reason to do so.

944
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 2: So I really think that she's going to struggle with authenticity,

945
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 2: even though she will become more risk averse, more scripted

946
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:49,280
Speaker 2: as she moves forward into the presidential campaign.

947
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 1: Let me risk showing my partisan bias. I have a

948
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:58,279
Speaker 1: hunch that she's very authentic. She is authentically what we

949
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:03,560
Speaker 1: see Ben that that will be unavoidable. You can't run

950
00:56:03,640 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: ninety four days in the age of television and the

951
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,399
Speaker 1: level of scrutiny at the presidential level. In the end,

952
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: you are who you are.

953
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 2: That's correct. And she is a long time establishment politician

954
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: who has successfully been the puppet of business interests and

955
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:24,200
Speaker 2: politicians and donors on her behalf. And she has successfully

956
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:29,879
Speaker 2: leveraged her entire career onto the Democratic stage demanding these

957
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,759
Speaker 2: positions of power and receiving them. And that ultimately, now

958
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:36,960
Speaker 2: that she's positioned for the top job without ever winning

959
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 2: a vote from Democratic voters for her to be the nominee,

960
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 2: she will be revealed as the person she is. I

961
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 2: think you're absolutely right.

962
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 1: Well, listen, I want to thank you for joining me.

963
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 1: I think given her role now in American politics and history,

964
00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 1: your book Amateur Hour, Kamala Harris and the White House.

965
00:56:56,440 --> 00:56:59,919
Speaker 1: It's available now on Amazon in bookstores everywhere. I think

966
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 1: anyone who wants to get an in depth look at

967
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,560
Speaker 1: who Kamala Harris really is is going to find this

968
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,319
Speaker 1: as a must read. You've done a great job. Your

969
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 1: timing is as good as any author I've ever seen,

970
00:57:11,239 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: and I wish you really well for having written this.

971
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:15,000
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.

972
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Charlie Spearing. You can get

973
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, Amateur hour Kamala

974
00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: Harris in the White House on our show page at

975
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: neutsworld dot com. News World is produced by Gangwish three

976
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: sixty in iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan. Our

977
00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork for the show was

978
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:42,400
Speaker 1: created by Steve Penley. Special thanks to the team at

979
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: Gingrish three sixty. If you've been enjoying newts World, I

980
00:57:45,480 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 1: hope you'll go to Apple Podcast and both rate us

981
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Speaker 1: with five stars and give us a review so others

982
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: can learn what it's all about. Right now, listeners of

983
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:58,160
Speaker 1: neut World consigner for my three free weekly columns at

984
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: gingrichstree sixty dot com slash newsletter, I'm nud Gingrich. This

985
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Speaker 1: is neut World Man