Speaker 1: You're listening to Comedy Central.
Speaker 2: From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central is America's
Speaker 2: only sorts for news. This is the Daily Shown with
Speaker 2: your host, Jordan Clappers.
Speaker 3: Welcome to the John Jordan Clipper.
Speaker 4: We got so much to talk about tonight. Donald Trump
Speaker 4: is looking for a new vice president. Kendrick and Drake
Speaker 4: are at war, and bring your dogs in the house
Speaker 4: at night, because Christy Nome is on the loose.
Speaker 3: So let's get into adlines.
Speaker 4: Let's kick things off right here in New York City,
Speaker 4: where Week three of the Donald Trump hush money trial
Speaker 4: kicked off with a stern warning for the defendant in chief.
Speaker 5: We just got that decision from the judge on whether
Speaker 5: or not Donald Trump has in fact violated his gag
Speaker 5: order again. And the judge has decided that yes, Donald
Speaker 5: Trump has now violated it for the tenth time, and
Speaker 5: he said going forward, if Donald Trump violates it again,
Speaker 5: he will consider jail time.
Speaker 6: Oh, you've done it now, Donald, If you violate that
Speaker 6: gag order for an eleventh time, the judge is gonna
Speaker 6: really consider jail time.
Speaker 3: I mean, he's strongly.
Speaker 4: Contemplating the possibility of consequences for your actions.
Speaker 3: Just one more chance.
Speaker 4: Look, I get that no judge wants to throw a
Speaker 4: former president into the slammer. But Donald Trump has the
Speaker 4: mind of a toddler. If there's one thing a toddler understands,
Speaker 4: it's that when mom and dad start counting like nine
Speaker 4: and a half, nine and three quarters, the brat has
Speaker 4: already won. Whether Trump is thrown in jail for a
Speaker 4: few days over the gag order or thrown in jail
Speaker 4: for a few years for the hush money scandal, He's
Speaker 4: still going.
Speaker 3: To be the next president.
Speaker 4: So let's get into the latest news and are good.
Speaker 4: Look at the polls, everybody. Let's get into the latest
Speaker 4: news and our ongoing converence of indecision twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Bright.
Speaker 4: Now, the presidential race is all about the veepstakes, and
Speaker 4: over the weekend, everyone desperate to be Trump's running mate
Speaker 4: gathered in mar A Lago.
Speaker 3: For a classic Trump beauty pageant.
Speaker 7: There are a lot of special gifts that are on
Speaker 7: Donald Trump's shortlist for VP, and Donald Trump today at
Speaker 7: may A Lago during that fundraiser, actually called a series
Speaker 7: of them up on stage and praised then.
Speaker 8: About Senator Tim Scott. He said, as a surrogate. He
Speaker 8: he's unbelievable. On Congressman Michael Waltz, a man that knows
Speaker 8: more about the military When I want to know about
Speaker 8: the military, I call him Christy nom somebody that I love.
Speaker 8: Senator Mike Lee, I love your haircut, and he's a
Speaker 8: good man too. Representative Hunt makes the best commercials. Congressman
Speaker 8: Byron Donalds, I like diversity, diversita as you would say,
Speaker 8: I like diversita.
Speaker 3: Wow subtle.
Speaker 4: Byron Donalds, I like diversity. What a clever way to
Speaker 4: say that he's black and maybe French.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Diversita sounds like the name of a stripper Trump once
Speaker 4: slept with. I have no evidence of that, of course,
Speaker 4: maybe because he paid her that hush money. But some
Speaker 4: VP candidates are showing more hustle than others, like a
Speaker 4: lot of them. Denyed the twenty twenty election results. But
Speaker 4: Senator Tim Scott was on TV this weekend pre denying
Speaker 4: this year's election results.
Speaker 9: Will you commit to accepting the election results of twenty
Speaker 9: twenty four? Bottom line?
Speaker 10: At the end of the day, the forty seventh President
Speaker 10: of the United States will be President Donald Trump, and
Speaker 10: I'm excited to get back to low inflation, low unemployment.
Speaker 9: Wait wait, senator, yes or no? Yes or no? Will
Speaker 9: you accept the election results of twenty twenty four?
Speaker 3: No matter who wins, that is my statement.
Speaker 9: But just yes or no? Will you accept the election
Speaker 9: results of twenty twenty four?
Speaker 10: I look forward to President Trump being the forty seventh president.
Speaker 10: Christ You can ask him multiple.
Speaker 3: Times, Senator, just a yes or no answer, So.
Speaker 10: The American people, the American people will make the decision.
Speaker 9: But I don't hear you committee.
Speaker 10: For President Trump. That's that clear.
Speaker 4: This is how humiliating it is to be on Trump's team.
Speaker 4: Normal questions become trick questions.
Speaker 6: Do you accept the election results?
Speaker 3: Should you look directly into an eclipse you? This is
Speaker 3: not a hard question.
Speaker 4: It's like when the band comes out and says, are
Speaker 4: you ready to party? Just say yes and enjoy. Imagine
Speaker 4: dragons like a responsible adult.
Speaker 3: Come on. Of course.
Speaker 4: One of the top contenders for Trump's VP is South
Speaker 4: Dakota Governor Christy nom She's got MAGA credentials, she's got
Speaker 4: executive experience, she's got Fox News anchor face. If you
Speaker 4: ask me, the race is hers to lose. There's really
Speaker 4: nothing she could do to ruin her chances.
Speaker 11: A governor thought to be a contender for Donald Trump's
Speaker 11: running mate.
Speaker 3: This November is responding to the.
Speaker 11: Backlash over a story in her new book. It's a
Speaker 11: story about shooting her puppy.
Speaker 4: Okay, maybe that might hurt her chances. I'm not a
Speaker 4: political expert, but I think if I had to give
Speaker 4: up politician advice, I would say the top thing is
Speaker 4: to not shoot your puppy. The second top thing would
Speaker 4: be to not write about shooting your puppy.
Speaker 3: Look, let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Maybe
Speaker 3: maybe she has a good reason.
Speaker 11: In the book, Nome says she shot and killed her
Speaker 11: fourteen month old puppy named Cricket for bad behavior.
Speaker 12: Nome describes leading the fourteen month old dog to a
Speaker 12: gravel pit to be shot after concluding it was less
Speaker 12: than worthless, untrainable, and aggressive.
Speaker 7: As a mom, I made a choice between protecting my
Speaker 7: children and protecting them from a dangerous animal that was
Speaker 7: killing livestock.
Speaker 13: No posting this response on acts, saying we love animals,
Speaker 13: but tough decisions like this happen all the time on
Speaker 13: a farm.
Speaker 3: That is not an excuse.
Speaker 4: Christina, you can't just go around executing puppies and say, well,
Speaker 4: that's life on a farm. It's a farm, not international waters.
Speaker 4: And for bad behavior, I mean, even Kuela Devela is
Speaker 4: like Jesus.
Speaker 3: At least I was making a coach.
Speaker 4: Was there really nothing else that could have been done
Speaker 4: with a misbehaving puppy? Training medication? I mean, worst case,
Speaker 4: send the dog to a nice family upstate. That's what
Speaker 4: my parents said they did with my dog when I
Speaker 4: was a kid. And he still sends me a birthday
Speaker 4: card every year.
Speaker 1: How cool is that?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: Christy Nome's defense is that she had no choice because
Speaker 4: the dog was untrainable and a danger, although if you
Speaker 4: read her book, the cartage doesn't stop there.
Speaker 5: Do You put it in a part of a chapter
Speaker 5: called bad Day to be a Goat?
Speaker 9: And then after you shot the dog, you quote realized
Speaker 9: another unpleasant job needed to be done.
Speaker 2: Walking back up.
Speaker 6: To the yard, I spotted our billy goat.
Speaker 3: What did the goat do?
Speaker 4: It sounds like she saw it. I was like, well,
Speaker 4: I can't leave any witnesses.
Speaker 3: She could, You could have come on. She could have at.
Speaker 4: Least given the goat an opportunity to prove its loyalty,
Speaker 4: like here's the gun, you shoot the dog.
Speaker 3: Don't forget.
Speaker 4: Nobody forced her to tell anybody these stories. These are
Speaker 4: the stories she chose to tell to seem tough for
Speaker 4: the Maga bass in this book. By the way, was
Speaker 4: No Going Back supposed to be the title? Or was
Speaker 4: that what her editor said when they read this section?
Speaker 4: Are you sure you want this in There's No Going Back?
Speaker 4: I mean, what were the alternate titles? For God's sake,
Speaker 4: don't include this?
Speaker 3: Not sure? If you're kidding? Lol? Were you hacked? I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 4: And by the way, Noah is not letting up on this.
Speaker 4: In fact, not only is she willing to shoot her
Speaker 4: dog and goat now, she wants to shoot other dogs too.
Speaker 12: Soutzi gooda Governor Christy Noom is not backing down defending
Speaker 12: her decision to shoot her own dog now implying Joe
Speaker 12: Biden's dog Commander, which no longer lives in the White
Speaker 12: House after several biding incidents, should be put down. She
Speaker 12: reportedly writes that the first thing she would do if
Speaker 12: she got to the White House is make sure Joe
Speaker 12: Biden's dog was nowhere on the grounds. Commander, say hello
Speaker 12: to cricket.
Speaker 4: Dear Lord, this woman has a taste for dog blood.
Speaker 4: It's like she thought all dogs go to heaven was
Speaker 4: a personal challenge.
Speaker 3: Why why.
Speaker 4: Why is she going so hard on dog killing? Can
Speaker 4: cats vote?
Speaker 14: Now?
Speaker 3: What did I miss that?
Speaker 4: For more on this, we go live to Christy Nomes
Speaker 4: Ranch with our own Michael Costa. Michael, Michael, How is
Speaker 4: Nome's team reacting to this story.
Speaker 3: They're not worried at all, Jordan.
Speaker 14: This story might upset the coastal elites, but Nomes speak
Speaker 14: are confident that real Americans understand that this is just
Speaker 14: life on the farm.
Speaker 3: Was that a gunshot I just heard?
Speaker 14: Yeah, it was city boy. You know where do you
Speaker 14: think your chicken comes from? It comes from blindfolding the birds,
Speaker 14: leading them into a gravel pit, giving them a last cigarette,
Speaker 14: and shooting them in the back.
Speaker 1: Of the head.
Speaker 14: Also, you can stuff your face on ten cent wing night.
Speaker 14: It's how we feed America.
Speaker 4: I think we all understand that death is a part
Speaker 4: of our food system. What's disturbing is how thoughtlessly Governor
Speaker 4: Nome treats her animals.
Speaker 14: Yeah, but Nome's team says, that's a real advantage in politics.
Speaker 14: You want a leader who can make hard decisions about
Speaker 14: the budget without being preoccupied about whether the kids are
Speaker 14: going to be hungry because they don't get a school lunch.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, was that a cowbean choked?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 14: Here we go, Yeah, reality check for you Left Coast
Speaker 14: Soy boys. All right, this is how your steak gets.
Speaker 3: To the supermarket.
Speaker 14: Do you think it magically falls from the sky shrink wrapped? No,
Speaker 14: Governor Christinoms sneaks up behind each cow individually with a
Speaker 14: piece of piano wire and wraps it tightly around their neck, saying,
Speaker 14: sh let it happen.
Speaker 3: Let it happen.
Speaker 14: It's simple, honest farm work.
Speaker 3: Jordan.
Speaker 15: Okay, okay, okay, I'll admit I have no idea what
Speaker 15: that's how it was.
Speaker 14: Well, if you got out of your media bubble once
Speaker 14: in a while, you would know that pork is produced.
Speaker 14: What an unsuspecting pig gets into his mid size sedan,
Speaker 14: starts it up and it explodes. But does Christy nome
Speaker 14: get any thanks for ringing up the C four.
Speaker 3: Well, not from the New York City brunch crowd.
Speaker 4: Okay, Michael, Michael, Look, I don't accept this explanation. I
Speaker 4: think the average rule American treats their animals with more
Speaker 4: respect than Christy Nome is saying they do.
Speaker 3: What was that?
Speaker 10: Now?
Speaker 14: Let me guess you think your mailman meat just grows
Speaker 14: on trees.
Speaker 3: I guess not, Michael Costa. Everybody, come onck we come back.
Speaker 4: We'll fight out who's winning in the latest war in
Speaker 4: hip hop. So don't go away, we go back to
Speaker 4: the Daily Show. You know, the news is so serious
Speaker 4: these days. Really use is a palate cleanser, like a
Speaker 4: fun pop culture story. And luckily there's some big news
Speaker 4: this weekend.
Speaker 16: Boy, has the rap role been buzzing over the weekend?
Speaker 16: The Internet on fire? Are you team Drake or Team
Speaker 16: Kendrick Lamar? The feud is red hot, both stars dropping
Speaker 16: several Dish tracks over the weekend, both stars gaining tens
Speaker 16: of millions of streams in the process. The beef has
Speaker 16: been ongoing for several years, quite frankly, but it's reached
Speaker 16: a fever pitch right now.
Speaker 3: Ooh, rep battle. It's a great way to showcase an
Speaker 3: MC's skills.
Speaker 4: I gotta says, as a Michigan boy, I loved watching
Speaker 4: eminem Slice and DICE's competitors.
Speaker 3: It's always always.
Speaker 4: A great time In fact, I bet Drake is gonna
Speaker 4: tease Kendrick about selling more albums, and Kendrick is going
Speaker 4: to make some playful jabs about Drake being a Toronto
Speaker 4: Raptors fan.
Speaker 3: So let the ribbing begin.
Speaker 14: In his diss tracks, Drake claims Kendrick abuses and cheats
Speaker 14: on this fiance, while Kendrick accuses Drake of being a pedophile.
Speaker 3: Oh that got dark. Uh.
Speaker 4: We went from zero to epstein in about one weekend.
Speaker 4: This beef is really out of control and it doesn't
Speaker 4: look like it's calming down anytime soon. Kendrick is probably
Speaker 4: in the studio right now trying to figure out something
Speaker 4: that rhymes with killed.
Speaker 3: John benet Ramsay.
Speaker 4: So for more on this, we go live out to
Speaker 4: the streets with our own Josh Johnson.
Speaker 6: Don Dods.
Speaker 3: Who would you say is winning this beef? Nope, pass, no,
Speaker 3: thank you. I don't want to get.
Speaker 17: Dragged into this at all. All these dudes do is
Speaker 17: research and destroy. Apparently this is short for dissertation, okay,
Speaker 17: And I don't need anybody looking me up and rapping
Speaker 17: about how I took my cousin to sing your prom
Speaker 17: or that I pissed my bed until singor prom all Right,
Speaker 17: I just want to do my job and rest my
Speaker 17: head in whatever safe house they got j cole In.
Speaker 3: Okay, I mean I see your point.
Speaker 4: This has got to be one of the most brutal
Speaker 4: rap beefs in history.
Speaker 17: Well, hold on, let's not get crazy. I mean, remember
Speaker 17: how rap beefs used to be. I mean, remember Biggie
Speaker 17: and Tupac. There's a reason that the last time you
Speaker 17: saw Pac.
Speaker 3: Was in hologram form.
Speaker 17: All right, what's happening now is nothing compared to back then,
Speaker 17: because hip hop has matured in the nineties, it was
Speaker 17: a future girl.
Speaker 3: How about that now?
Speaker 17: It's I don't think you're emotionally available as a father
Speaker 17: and husband due to your general lack of vulnerability, which
Speaker 17: leaves me with no choice but the fucking.
Speaker 3: Girl, how about that?
Speaker 9: Okay?
Speaker 4: All right, okay, So you're saying as ugly as this
Speaker 4: is getting, at least it's not spilling into violence.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 17: In fact, I wish all global conflicts were like hip
Speaker 17: hop beefs Middle East Russia, Ukraine instead of missiles. Wouldn't
Speaker 17: you want to see Zelensky release a track saying Putin
Speaker 17: is on ozembic or that he learned Brazilian jiu jitsu
Speaker 17: because he got Brazilian butt lift, or that Putin's not
Speaker 17: black enough to say nigga you know what I mean,
Speaker 17: or whatever the Russian version of that is.
Speaker 3: You really think you could replace wars with beefs?
Speaker 17: Absolutely forget abroad even at home. Wouldn't the national anthem
Speaker 17: be hotter if it was a dish track against England,
Speaker 17: like no taxation without responentation.
Speaker 3: That's already half a bar right there. Now?
Speaker 17: You just need something like you eat beans on toasts
Speaker 17: like some broke ass hose instead of shooting at Britain,
Speaker 17: the Founding Fathers should have been spitting out oh like
Speaker 17: a Hamilton, Not like that?
Speaker 4: Okay, well, Josh, if everything being a rap battle, the
Speaker 4: escalate situations, why are you so afraid to just pick
Speaker 4: a side between Drake and Kendrick? I mean because you
Speaker 4: tell me all the time how you love Drake's music
Speaker 4: and he makes you feel safe to talk in the shower,
Speaker 4: and how you like to pop ass to his beat
Speaker 4: so it makes you feel like.
Speaker 3: A bad bitch. I think you said no, no, no,
Speaker 3: no no no no no no no don't.
Speaker 17: Well, thanks a lot, Jordan, you gave him plenty. Kendrick
Speaker 17: just dropped a song and the cover art is me
Speaker 17: slow dancing at singer.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I gotta call my cousin Josh Johnson. Everyone,
Speaker 3: we come back, Jonathan Hike.
Speaker 18: We're enjoining me on the show, so don't go away.
Speaker 3: Welcome back to the Daily Show.
Speaker 4: I guess Tonight is a social psychologist who teaches atic
Speaker 4: A leadership at New York University. He's here to talk
Speaker 4: about his latest best selling book, The Anxious Generation. Please welcome,
Speaker 4: Jonathan Heite. Jonathan, I see people walking all over Brooklyn
Speaker 4: holding this book. It's talking about the great rewiring. Talk
Speaker 4: to me, what is the great rewiring?
Speaker 19: So something happened to young people born after nineteen ninety five.
Speaker 19: All of a sudden in the early twenty tens, their
Speaker 19: mental health collapsed. Rates of anxiety and depressions skyrocketed. Self
Speaker 19: harm is up one hundred and fifty percent for younger
Speaker 19: teen girls. Suicide is up fifty percent. Something happened in
Speaker 19: the early twenty tens. And my argument in the book
Speaker 19: is a tragedy in two acts. The first act is
Speaker 19: the loss of the play based childhood. It's what anybody
Speaker 19: over forty and this audience had you were out with
Speaker 19: your friends after school, there was nobody supervising. You had
Speaker 19: to learn how to work out conflicts, how to face adversity.
Speaker 19: So that's what kids have had for ten hundreds of
Speaker 19: thousands of years. It's part of being a mammal. You play,
Speaker 19: you develop skills. We began to crack down on that
Speaker 19: to lock kids up in the nineties, to not let
Speaker 19: them out. So we're restricting what they most need, which
Speaker 19: is play, from the nineties through the two thousands. But
Speaker 19: mental health doesn't collapse. Then it's actually pretty stable. Then
Speaker 19: we get act to which is the arrival of the
Speaker 19: phone based childhood, and what that is is in twenty ten, everybody.
Speaker 1: Had a flip phone.
Speaker 19: The iPhone had come out, but most teens had a
Speaker 19: flip phone, no front facing camera, no social media on
Speaker 19: the phone, no high speed data. And by twenty twenty
Speaker 19: fifteen everyone's got all those other things. Now suddenly everyone
Speaker 19: has a smartphone, front facing camera, high speed internet, social
Speaker 19: media especially Instagram on the phone, and almost like someone
Speaker 19: turned switch. In twenty thirteen, girls in America and many
Speaker 19: of the countries suddenly become very anxious, depressed, and self
Speaker 19: harming and so that's what the book is about. Something
Speaker 19: changed between twenty ten and twenty fifteen, and I'm trying
Speaker 19: to explain what it is.
Speaker 3: You're say.
Speaker 4: In an act too, they introduced checkof cell phone and yeah,
Speaker 4: and we know what ends up happening after that. You
Speaker 4: look at sort of the adolescent brain. How dumb and
Speaker 4: stupid is a thirteen year old's brain.
Speaker 19: I would say, not dumb and stupid at all. I
Speaker 19: would say it's in the process of remodeling. And it's right,
Speaker 19: it's still in the early phases. So we have you know,
Speaker 19: children have a brain which is actually almost full size.
Speaker 19: By age six, the brain is almost full Oh.
Speaker 3: Fact check that. I don't think that's I don't think
Speaker 3: that's right.
Speaker 1: Okay, can you must be right? Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 19: The rest of childhood is not about growth. It's about
Speaker 19: picking which neurons surviving, which ones get eliminated. It's all
Speaker 19: about wiring up, and that happens slowly in childhood. But
Speaker 19: then around age eleven twelve for girls. Puberty starts a
Speaker 19: couple years later for boys, and you get this massive,
Speaker 19: quick rewiring of the brain to sort of locked down
Speaker 19: into an adult configuration. It starts more in the back
Speaker 19: of the brain, the prefrontal cortex is the last part
Speaker 19: to develop, and so around the age of thirteen, kids
Speaker 19: emotional areas are rewiring. They have the beginnings of sexual
Speaker 19: urges and lust. They're very emotional passionate, but they don't
Speaker 19: have the self control to say, like, no, I'm not
Speaker 19: going to spend a fifth hour on TikTok. I'm just
Speaker 19: going to keep going because I can't stop myself.
Speaker 3: And when does that stop?
Speaker 4: Because I'm looking for that, and like forty seven, forty eight,
Speaker 4: like when does that part of my brain close off
Speaker 4: and I can put the phone down?
Speaker 1: Well, in your case, I really can't say.
Speaker 4: But for most people, buy a sequel again, twenty five Smart.
Speaker 19: Twenty five is when when the front of cortex is
Speaker 19: done rewiring.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you when that happens.
Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting how you're talking a lot about not
Speaker 4: only these phones come in and they change the way
Speaker 4: kids think in the way society thinks, but you talk
Speaker 4: about raising a child an anti fragile child, and you
Speaker 4: make some bold claims in this book, one of which
Speaker 4: is right here. You claim that this uh merry go
Speaker 4: round playground spinner is the greatest piece of playground equipment
Speaker 4: ever invented?
Speaker 3: Defend yourself? How is it?
Speaker 10: How?
Speaker 1: Okay? What is better?
Speaker 4: I mean, Peter Totter is just a metaphor. You're down,
Speaker 4: you know, It's just it's what life is all about,
Speaker 4: you know, work with somebody else. One's up, ones down.
Speaker 4: There's no way to stay in the middle.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, the.
Speaker 19: The key Okay, while I have no citations to prove
Speaker 19: my claim, the psychological thing I'm trying to get at
Speaker 19: there is thrills. This is something I talk a lot
Speaker 19: about in chapter three that kids need to play, but
Speaker 19: they especially need risky play. Kids literally need to face risk.
Speaker 19: If you don't give them risk, they'll find a way
Speaker 19: to get it. They'll climb up on walls, they'll climb trees,
Speaker 19: if they skateboard, they'll skateboard downstairs. Kids need to sort
Speaker 19: of need to have some actual risk. And so, yes,
Speaker 19: you're right, a swing a teer strife it's really big
Speaker 19: and you could come crashing down.
Speaker 1: There is risk.
Speaker 3: Well, it's right to hurt these kids.
Speaker 1: Well, because you have.
Speaker 19: To put kids in a situation where they can get hurt,
Speaker 19: because only then do they learn every day how to
Speaker 19: not get hurt and what we've done since the nineties
Speaker 19: is we've put them in places they are so safe
Speaker 19: there's no chance to get hurt, which means they don't
Speaker 19: learn how to not get hurt. The human program of
Speaker 19: evolution is kids face risk that they're a little scared,
Speaker 19: they have to be a little scared, they overcome it,
Speaker 19: and then they're more confident the next time around, and
Speaker 19: that's the path to adulthood. But we stopped that in
Speaker 19: the nineties. We said no more of that. We're going
Speaker 19: to keep you over protected forever, and then we're going
Speaker 19: to send you to universities like mine, where you're coming
Speaker 19: in still not ready for independent living.
Speaker 4: Now you take that, and then you also then fast
Speaker 4: forward to this modern erarow where kids are obsessed with phones,
Speaker 4: they're on the internet, they're on social media sites. Is
Speaker 4: there an argument, though, that the anti fragile way in
Speaker 4: which kids need to it's not to pull this thing
Speaker 4: away that they need to be exposed to the risk
Speaker 4: that the internet has. I mean, this is the world
Speaker 4: that they're going to be born into. Anyway, shouldn't they
Speaker 4: be learning and how to navigate that at an early age?
Speaker 19: YEA in theory, yes, But let's look at say sexuality.
Speaker 19: We want them to learn how to have sex. Does
Speaker 19: that mean we should give them running start at age eight?
Speaker 19: There are certain things that are not appropriate at that time.
Speaker 3: I did, just to be clear, I did not say
Speaker 3: that this was not that. This is that that's not.
Speaker 4: Theoretically yeah, that was yeah, theoretically yes, yes, boy.
Speaker 19: So I've heard this before in theory, like, oh, you know,
Speaker 19: why are you why are you? You know you're you're
Speaker 19: saying we're we're we need to protect them less in
Speaker 19: the real world, but you're saying we need to protect
Speaker 19: them more in the virtual world. Isn't that contradictory? Not
Speaker 19: at all, Not at all. Kids where mammals, Kids need
Speaker 19: to be out playing, rough housing, putting their arms around
Speaker 19: each other, touching, out in nature.
Speaker 1: This is the way a lot of us grew up.
Speaker 19: You play outside, and when you put kids in an
Speaker 19: environment where everything goes through the phone, as soon as
Speaker 19: you give your child a phone, that they're going to
Speaker 19: use that. Now, the latest stats are around nine hours
Speaker 19: a day they're on their phone, and a lot of
Speaker 19: them it's almost all the time because they're always checking.
Speaker 19: That blocks out time and nature, time with friends, time
Speaker 19: with friends, is down sixty five percent since twenty ten.
Speaker 19: Kids need time with friends. Texting and sending emojis doesn't compensate.
Speaker 19: It's done instead of time with friends, and that I
Speaker 19: think is why as soon as they moved on to
Speaker 19: social media and the boys onto multiplayer video games, they
Speaker 19: got so lonely. Loneliness surged along with depression and anxiety.
Speaker 4: It's interesting you talk a little bit about in childhood
Speaker 4: discover mode versus defensive mode, and even in a world
Speaker 4: of the arts. I did improv comedy forever, and I
Speaker 4: think the mindset of that is a discovery mindset, right,
Speaker 4: and so you're constantly looking for something. It was interesting
Speaker 4: in reading this in terms of how to raise a
Speaker 4: child and to put them in that open mindset. But
Speaker 4: it seems remarkably reflective of just how society feels right now.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if that's is because partially because
Speaker 4: of our connection to social media and the anxiety that
Speaker 4: is there, but do you see parallels there as well
Speaker 4: that we are inadvertently too in defensive mode because of
Speaker 4: these devices that we have in our pockets, in our hands.
Speaker 19: Well, right now it does seem like everything is going
Speaker 19: to hell because it actually is oh that's fine.
Speaker 4: Oh kind yeah, it's not just my phone telling me
Speaker 4: that that fought great.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't that well, it wasn't that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't that way in twenty twelve.
Speaker 19: So the fact that this happened in so many countries
Speaker 19: at the same time, and a lot of people say, oh, well,
Speaker 19: you know the global financial crisis, that must be what
Speaker 19: it was like there are real economic difficulties. Yeah, that
Speaker 19: was two thousand and eight. Why do the numbers not
Speaker 19: begin going up until twelve, twenty thirteen, when the economy
Speaker 19: is getting better and better. So you can't make the
Speaker 19: claim that things were so terrible in Obama's second term
Speaker 19: compared to us first, that all of a sudden, teens,
Speaker 19: especially teen girls, suddenly fell off a cliff. That just
Speaker 19: doesn't work. So, you know, if this had all started
Speaker 19: in twenty twenty, we could say, well, yeah, you know
Speaker 19: COVID and all the craziness that's going on, But this
Speaker 19: started in twenty twelve. There's no other explanation that anyone's
Speaker 19: proposed for why it happened so many countries and hit
Speaker 19: girls the hardest.
Speaker 3: It was interesting.
Speaker 4: You have a chapter in here that looks at also faith,
Speaker 4: and I'm an atheist. I know you mentioned that you
Speaker 4: are an atheist as well, but you speak to sort
Speaker 4: of this God shaped hole. I think it's a Blaze
Speaker 4: Pascal quote. God shape hold everybody's every human heart right,
Speaker 4: and that this lack of religion is something that is
Speaker 4: affecting childhood in a way that I get as an atheist.
Speaker 4: I always had my dukes up when that comes about.
Speaker 4: You said you were one, so you earned yourself a pass. Okay,
Speaker 4: But this lack of sort of religious institutions in this
Speaker 4: modern media landscape, how do you see that as something
Speaker 4: that's affecting like a childhood.
Speaker 19: So the way to think about this as an atheist
Speaker 19: without getting defensive is good luck. No, I've been We've
Speaker 19: been working on this professional for many years. I finally
Speaker 19: got it down. That's it, okay, just looking at it descriptively. Psychologically,
Speaker 19: religious people are a little happier than non religious people.
Speaker 19: That's been true for a long time, just as married
Speaker 19: people are happier than non married people on average. Your
Speaker 19: milers may vary, but people need to be tied in,
Speaker 19: locked in in a community. I'm a big fan of
Speaker 19: Emil Durkhim, the sociologist is my favorite thinker of all time.
Speaker 19: When we're not tied in, locked in, we're free. But
Speaker 19: that doesn't make us happy. We don't have we have
Speaker 19: nothing to push against, we have no sense of meaning.
Speaker 19: It's like if you try to raise a plant not
Speaker 19: in the ground, but just like up in the air,
Speaker 19: and it just can't be done. And so religious kids
Speaker 19: are rooted in traditions, faith, rituals, community, They go to
Speaker 19: church every Sunday. The Jewish kids have Shabbat. They literally
Speaker 19: can't use electronics for a day. So they were always
Speaker 19: happier than the secular kids. But what happens after twenty twelve,
Speaker 19: it's quite remarkable. In all the graphs, the religious kids
Speaker 19: get a little more anxious and depressed. The secular kids
Speaker 19: get much more anxious and depressed. So what I'm saying is,
Speaker 19: especially if you're an atheist, you're gonna have to work
Speaker 19: much harder. You're gonna be much more intentional about rooting
Speaker 19: your kid in stable social relationships. If you give him
Speaker 19: an iPad and then he graduates to a phone, and
Speaker 19: it's all this network, that network interacting with strangers and
Speaker 19: weirdos and bots and ais, that's not a community that's
Speaker 19: crazy making it.
Speaker 4: Might just be easier to get him to believe in
Speaker 4: angels then.
Speaker 19: Take away the iPad.
Speaker 3: I've had it there. I do want to You've written
Speaker 3: a lot of very interesting books.
Speaker 4: The book you wrote before this, The Coddling of the
Speaker 4: American Mind, you co wrote, sort of looked at safetyism
Speaker 4: and looked at the college, the college landscape, and now
Speaker 4: what we see on college campuses, these protests are breaking out.
Speaker 4: I wonder as somebody who looked closely at that and
Speaker 4: the ways in which students kind of move through it,
Speaker 4: what you see now in these campuses.
Speaker 19: Yeah, so you know, I don't want to comment on
Speaker 19: the substance of the protest. This is a complicated issue.
Speaker 19: I respect people on all sides. We all agree on campus,
Speaker 19: we all agree students have a right to protest constitutionally
Speaker 19: protected it.
Speaker 1: But two things I see going on is one is
Speaker 1: the protest.
Speaker 19: And this is what Greg Luki on Off, my co author,
Speaker 19: first notice in twenty fourteen that the shouting down of speakers,
Speaker 19: the activism't on campus that was really illiberal, and it
Speaker 19: was intimidating, and it was stopping people from speaking. It
Speaker 19: was based on arguments about fragility about my mental health
Speaker 19: or her mental health, Like, we can't let this person
Speaker 19: on campus because it'll be dangerous, it'll be harmful. Speech
Speaker 19: is violence. So that's a new idea that comes in
Speaker 19: with gen Z because they haven't been given an anti
Speaker 19: fragile childhood.
Speaker 1: They've been given way too much therapy. They think everything
Speaker 1: was trauma.
Speaker 19: So we see that by beginning in twenty fourteen twenty
Speaker 19: it wasn't there in twenty twelve. It was a very
Speaker 19: new in twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen, and so the protesters.
Speaker 19: Now I don't know the details, but like, you know,
Speaker 19: just one thing I read this morning. Someone sent me
Speaker 19: a quote from a student at Harvard where she was
Speaker 19: in the encampments, and she said, if Harvard cares so
Speaker 19: goddamn much about my mental health, why don't they just
Speaker 19: divest and you know, do all the things that we're demanding, Like, yeah,
Speaker 19: you know, you should do you know, Harvard, you do
Speaker 19: these because our mental health is at stake. That's something new,
Speaker 19: and it's just not going to get them very far
Speaker 19: in political life going forward once they leave campus.
Speaker 3: Here, I read this book. I want to do this right?
Speaker 4: How do I helicopter parent my child correctly, Like, what
Speaker 4: are some tactical things I can take away from this?
Speaker 1: Well, you just push them out of the helicopter.
Speaker 3: Sorry, learn how to fly right. That's not anti fradule.
Speaker 19: For birds, it works, it's not for us. So the
Speaker 19: key thing, okay, So the key thing to the solution.
Speaker 19: So even though you know a lot of my books,
Speaker 19: a lot of my writing is very dark about things
Speaker 19: are actually going to hell in a lot of ways.
Speaker 19: But this one, we can solve it in a year
Speaker 19: or two. Because the reason it got so bad so
Speaker 19: quickly is that we're trapped in a it's called a
Speaker 19: a social trap. It's a collective action trap. The reason
Speaker 19: why we all feel we have to give our kid
Speaker 19: a smartphone by the time they're ten is because everyone
Speaker 19: else did. And your kid says, you know, dad, I'm
Speaker 19: the only one. I'm being left out. So we're all
Speaker 19: we're you know, we're all doing that. And the reason
Speaker 19: why students are spending so much time on TikTok, they say,
Speaker 19: is because everyone else is and I have to keep up.
Speaker 19: I have to know what's happening. So we're all trapped
Speaker 19: in this. What that means is that if if we
Speaker 19: decide to escape, we can escape together. So I proposed
Speaker 19: them in the book. There's a lot of suggestions, but
Speaker 19: four norms that will break these collective action traps. First,
Speaker 19: no smartphone before high school. Just clear this out of
Speaker 19: the lives of elementary and middle school kids. Send them out,
Speaker 19: Give them a flip phone, a dumb phone, a phone,
Speaker 19: watch you so you.
Speaker 1: Can text them.
Speaker 19: But don't give them the entire internet, including strangers all
Speaker 19: over the world who are trying to get at them sexually.
Speaker 19: Like this is just craziness. So no smartphone till high school.
Speaker 19: The second is no social media till sixteen. You know,
Speaker 19: the things that are sent around on social media, the
Speaker 19: things they're exposed to, Like I just recently learned about
Speaker 19: the video A Cat and a Blend, which was.
Speaker 1: Popular while ago.
Speaker 19: I know it is exactly it is exactly what it
Speaker 19: sounds like, so you know, and this is just this
Speaker 19: is just part of childhood, is hardcore porn, animal cruelty,
Speaker 19: beheading videos. So you know, let's just at least wait
Speaker 19: till they're sixteen before they see that stuff.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, that's the appropriate age to watch
Speaker 4: a Canita blenders at sixteen, It's like, ah, you get
Speaker 4: to drive a car, and then what do you ship?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 19: What I'm after here is not the optimum age, it's
Speaker 19: what's in a minimum age that we could actually all
Speaker 19: do together, because that's the key. If most of us
Speaker 19: do this, we solve the problem. The third norm is
Speaker 19: phone free schools. This is the most powerful one that
Speaker 19: we can do instantly. So if you're watching this and
Speaker 19: you have kids that go to school that lets the
Speaker 19: kids keep the phone in the pocket, send well, buy
Speaker 19: a copy of my book for the principal.
Speaker 1: Note.
Speaker 19: You know I have videos, Send them a video of
Speaker 19: my talks on phone free schools. Every school needs to
Speaker 19: go phone free by September. The phones are they don't
Speaker 19: just make the kids anxious and lonely, they make them
Speaker 19: less intelligent. Test scores have been drop around the world
Speaker 19: since twenty twelve. Once the kids bring a phone in school,
Speaker 19: they're doing this they're not.
Speaker 1: Listening to the teacher.
Speaker 19: So get rid of phones in schools. And then the
Speaker 19: fourth norm is far more independence, free play, and responsibility
Speaker 19: in the real world. We have to so it's not
Speaker 19: this is not just about let's take away take away,
Speaker 19: it's let's give them a real childhood, the kind of
Speaker 19: childhood that us older people, the kind that we look
Speaker 19: back on. So if we so, if we love our children,
Speaker 19: the best thing we can give them is a real
Speaker 19: human childhood. And if we do it together, we can
Speaker 19: get this done in the next year or two.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 4: Just give your kids some space, a beer and a
Speaker 4: bag of glass. It's a fascinating reading and an important one.
Speaker 4: The Anxious generation is available.
Speaker 3: Now don it out that It's quite right?
Speaker 4: Right back after that, that's our show for tonight now here.
Speaker 3: It is a moment of then.
Speaker 13: You know when we learned last week, obviously like all
Speaker 13: of you, in her book, that she killed her puppy.
Speaker 13: You heard me say that was very, very sad. We
Speaker 13: find her comments from yesterday disturbing, We find them absurd,
Speaker 13: and here this is a country that loves dogs.
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