1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: in this episode, we're going to dig down, deep into 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: the bones of the Earth. Okay, we're gonna We're gonna 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: call to mind a quote from J. R. Tolkien's The 7 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: Fellowship of the Ring Maria Maria, Wonder of the Northern World. 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,560 Speaker 1: Too deep we delved there and woke the nameless fear. Okay, 9 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: So is this an episode about the ball Rog? No, 10 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: I mean not directly. I mean we might ponder, as 11 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 1: we uh we read here what the metaphorical ball rog 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: might be in all of this. But but it is 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: gonna be an episode about about digging in the earth, 14 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: about about about mining down, digging down, and just how 15 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: deep we've gotten. And then what do we do in 16 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 1: the earth? What's what is what? What? What is Homo 17 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,440 Speaker 1: sapiens business beneath the surface of the earth? After all? 18 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: You know what? I just recently went to the Atlanta 19 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: Zoo and I hadn't been there since I was a kid. 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: And first of all, it's fantastic. Atlanta Zoo is wonderful. 21 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: But one of the things that struck me the most 22 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: was when I went into the little area where they 23 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: have the places where you can view the naked mole 24 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 1: rep Yon, where there is this The smell is overwhelming. Uh, 25 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: there's this odd odor. But just looking at them, they 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: are one of the strangest looking creatures on Earth. There 27 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: these naked, wrinkly, uh, kind of rosy pink things with 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: long teeth, lying in puddles, appearing to have some kind 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: of high mind and and frequently, at least when I 30 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: was looking at them, chewing on each other, just gnawing 31 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: on one another beneath the ground. And these are true 32 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: like subterranean creatures. You're not that we're designed to live 33 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: on the surface, but we do a lot more underground 34 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: venturing than most other permanent surface dwellers do. Absolutely. And 35 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: on the subject of of underground true underground evolution and 36 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: the evolution of burrowing species, I would like to come 37 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: back to that because we actually have um an author 38 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: in the Atlanta area wrote a book about the evolution 39 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 1: of burrowing creatures and uh, and I keep meaning to 40 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: to reach out and see about having him on the 41 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: show to chat with us about it. He's the one. 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: He actually mentions tremors the movie in the book, so 43 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: you know, you know that he's our people. But speaking 44 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: of of our people and speaking of of underground creatures, 45 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: one thing I was thinking about two is how if 46 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: you look to the fictional world of subterranean humanoids, we 47 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 1: see there's always there's pretty strict dichotomy. Right on one hand, 48 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: you have the debased underworld dwellers. You have the moment 49 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: the crawlers from the descent, the more locks for the 50 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: time machine you have or one of my other favorites 51 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: in terms of just cave dwelling creatures. Two gargoyles. I 52 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: don't know. Oh, it's terrible, some wonderful gargoyle costumes come 53 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: creatures coming out of the deserts and the desert caves 54 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: and kidnapping people that sort of thing. Well, I usually 55 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: think of gargoyles as as flying. Yeah, but they live 56 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: in caves in this particular movie, somewhere where they gonna 57 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 1: live in the middle of the desert on a skyscraper. 58 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: I guess bats live in caves and they fly. Yeah, 59 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,359 Speaker 1: they're basically It's more it would have made more sense 60 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: if they were bat people. Instead of gargoyles. But um hey, 61 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: I invite everyone to to see this film for them 62 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: for theirselves. The the ideal way to see this film 63 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: I think was probably at three pm on a Sunday 64 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: on TBS back in the day. But you can watch 65 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 1: it through modern means as well. Oh, I just looked 66 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: it up. These are some striking images. The gargoyle is 67 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: almost cramp us looking it is now. Of course. The 68 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: more Locks though, are really more of the iconic underground 69 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: dweller though from HD Wells The time Machine. Yeah. Though, 70 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: the interesting thing about them, so you're saying that there 71 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: are some uh, some fantasy and sci fi works where 72 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: underground human oid type creatures are presented as like, in 73 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: some way like a horrible deviant version of us, where 74 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: the more Locks are the sort of the villains of 75 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: the time Machine, but they're also it's funny. In the novel, 76 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 1: the more Locks are like the intelligent creatures that use technology, 77 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: and it's the the gentle surface dwelling eloi who are 78 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: like kind of ye, they're flacid and in curious and 79 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: sort of bovine. But then we also have works where 80 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: the creatures who live underground are the more refined humanoids. 81 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,840 Speaker 1: So um, we could of course looked in the Middle 82 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: Earth and the Dwarf Lords in their Halls of Stone. 83 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: You know, they're not elevated to the same level as 84 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:01,920 Speaker 1: the elves, but but still they're an advanced civilization that 85 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: that seemed to to to love a good underground uh empire. 86 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: Then you have things that you have, and you have 87 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: other groups like the drought in Dungeons and Dragons, the 88 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: non men and our Scott Baker's Second Apocalypse socca. The 89 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 1: mutants in beneath the Planet of the Eights. Oh yeah, 90 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: they worship a giant bomb. Yeah, they're great and they 91 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: have psychic powers, and yet we have not seen them 92 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: in any of these recent Planet of the Apes movies. 93 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: Also in the Fallout games, you have the Vault Dwellers. 94 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: They're not permanent to underground dwellers, but they have dwelt 95 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: underground for a long period of time and they have 96 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: internal and you know, emerging into the surface world to 97 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 1: retake it. Well, yeah, I think clearly in a lot 98 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: of these like science fiction works, the underground humanoids it's 99 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 1: supposed to be something symbolic. It shows like a sort 100 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: of like retreat into some kind of other nature. It 101 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: is a physical sign that something has changed. And I 102 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: think another out of the appeal is that the living 103 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: below ground or in caves or vault is something that 104 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: seems like it should be rather removed from the sort 105 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: of homes that most of us keep. And yet one 106 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: of the curious things is that underground dwellings are also 107 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: a part of our past. Uh. They're they're part of 108 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: our present, and depending on where we go in this 109 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 1: solar system, uh, they may be a part an important 110 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,119 Speaker 1: part of our future. Yeah. So let's take a minute 111 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: just to to talk about humanity's history in the depths 112 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: of the earth. Okay, So limestone caves provided shelter for 113 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: the Neanderthals of the Ice Age, and early humans too 114 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: made use of caves for shelter but also for burial 115 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: and for sacred rights. Yeah, I was looking at examples 116 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: of this. One example of I think the religious significance 117 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: of deep cave dwellings, especially by Neanderthals, is to be 118 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: found in the Brunkel Cave of southwestern France. Uh So, 119 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: to decide a journal article, We've got one in Nature 120 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: here from twenty sixteen called early Neandertal constructions deep in 121 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: in Brunickel Cave in southwestern France by joe Bert at 122 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: All And in this study, archaeologists reported the discovery of 123 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: ring shaped patterns of broken still agmites made from about 124 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: four hundred pieces of still agmite that are that were 125 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: found deep in the cave. And we don't know what 126 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: these ring shaped structures were for, but it's clear they're 127 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: artificial in origin. They were made by by humans and 128 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: they were the site of ancient fires, where like there 129 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: are some sections that are burned and charred, and there 130 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: are also pieces of burned bone mixed in with them. 131 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:39,000 Speaker 1: And a uranium dating series combined with some other methods 132 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: gives the structure an approximate age of a hundred and 133 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: seventy six point five thousand years old, one of the 134 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: oldest known human structures. And this was pretty deep down 135 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: to oh extremely yeah. This was found three hundred and 136 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: thirty six meters down from the entrance of the cave. 137 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: That's over eleven hundred feet down, showing that the Neanderthals 138 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 1: who made these rings had master deep underground environments. Like 139 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: to go this far down is not something an animal 140 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: would do lightly. You'd need to have an artificial light 141 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: source to take with you. You You probably need a plan 142 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: in a way of organizing and understanding your spatial environment 143 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: so you don't get stuck down there. And the big 144 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: question is what were the rings for? We had these 145 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: rings over a thousand feet down underground. A common explanation 146 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: would be, well, it's maybe religious in nature. Somebody's burning 147 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: fires with rings of stone down in the dark over 148 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: a thousand feet underground, right, must be for some kind 149 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: of ritual. We don't really know, but it's fascinating question, 150 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 1: and I think the most common answer is probably that 151 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: it had something to do with with an with a 152 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: loss to history, unknown neandertal religion. So there yet, so 153 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: there was a sacred reason to go down into the 154 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: depths presumably, or maybe there's just some other reason that 155 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: we don't understand. It doesn't it's not clear. Is it's 156 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: not easy to determine that these this like circle would 157 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: serve a practical purpose. I'm not sure what you'd use 158 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: it for as a tool or anything like that, or 159 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: why I would need to be so far down if 160 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: you did it. Almost it really asks for a kind 161 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: of symbolic interpretation. Yeah, Now in terms of more readily 162 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: accessed portions of a cave. Stuff close to the surface. 163 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: It's easier. It's easy for us to to think, well, 164 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, these are the kind of early primitive shelters 165 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: one might use, and then you would quickly evolve beyond that. 166 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: You would reach the point where it just makes more 167 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: sense to depend on tents and buildings for your shelter 168 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: um and then you would would maybe only stick to 169 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: the depths for you know, things that are religious in nature, 170 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: like catacombs or or perhaps bomb shelters in some cases, 171 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: or basements. I mean, it's, uh, it's easy to think 172 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: that there would just come a time where nobody lives 173 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 1: underground anymore unless you absolutely have to. Well, yeah, and 174 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: there'd be several reasons for this. I mean, one would 175 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: be the advent of settled civilization, because it's not that 176 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: there are no sub old civilizations that involve caves. Some 177 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 1: of them do involve caves, but generally there's a limited 178 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: number of caves out there, so you can't just like 179 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 1: keep filling up caves. You need to like build your 180 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 1: own structures to support and expanding population, and caves are 181 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: not necessarily near where you can do your agriculture, right. 182 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: And then if you're expanding on caves or or setting 183 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: out to build your own caves in the form of 184 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: artificial tunnels, it takes a fair amount of of effort. 185 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,560 Speaker 1: You have to have considerable resources, technological know how, and 186 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: you have to depend on the rock that you're working 187 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: with being the right temperament for what you're trying to build. However, 188 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: we do see all of these things line up, uh 189 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: in really to a fascinating degree with some of these 190 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 1: caves cities in modern day Turkey. Um and I was 191 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: was not really all that familiar with these prior to 192 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: researching for this episode, but they are, They're amazing. Uh. 193 00:10:55,520 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 1: One in particular is the city of Daring, who you 194 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: h This is a complex of hand dug tunnels that 195 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: dive down sixty meters or two hundred feet um beneath 196 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: that's as roughly eighteen stories beneath the surface and would 197 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: have housed and estimated twenty thousand people during its heyday. 198 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: It contained homes, schools, even a winery, and it's likely 199 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: that these tunnels were begun around seven b C. And 200 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: while it eventually seems to be a functional, fully functional city, 201 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: it continued to serve as a place of refuge well 202 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 1: into modern times, the place that surface dwellers knew they 203 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: could they could flee to and hide in. You have 204 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: surface tensions, we were too problematic. Yeah, it seems to 205 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: be worth noting that this is what the majority of 206 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: these Turkish underground UH dwellings were primarily used for. It 207 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: kind of calls to mind to go back to the 208 00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: Lord of the rings, like Helm's Deep, right, it's a 209 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: place where if your civilization is attacked, you can retreat 210 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 1: down below the surface and we're in seal up the 211 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: walls with stone until the war passes on or the 212 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: danger is gone, and then you re emerge. Which makes 213 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: me wonder about the Neanderthal a mystery from earlier, like, 214 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: to what extent was that a way to survive uh, 215 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: the new people, you know, the inheritors, to to to 216 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: flee down into depths that that other uh certainly surface predators, 217 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 1: but maybe even uh these newer hommaid species would not 218 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: bother with. Now that'd be a good plot for a novel, 219 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: but I think it is the case that Homo sapiens 220 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: are not believed to have been in the area at 221 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: this point. Oh no, no, for purely Hollywood reasons, it 222 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: could be like a reverse descent instead of it being uh, 223 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: poor hapless humanoids dealing with underground monsters are underground monsters 224 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,400 Speaker 1: of the heroes. There you go do for the descent three, 225 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: That would be actually a pretty good uh way to 226 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: frame it. So again, this is just one of of 227 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: several underground cities that you find in this region. There's 228 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: also the Kaimak the Underground City, the Oscanic Underground City, 229 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: there's the Mazy Underground City. And there are some interesting 230 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: illustrations of these online that really just drive home what 231 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: we're talking about. We're not talking about like just a 232 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:18,160 Speaker 1: few chambers. We're talking about like multiple stories of underground habitat. 233 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: It's a luxury mine. We should also point out that 234 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,199 Speaker 1: cave dwellings continue to this day in parts of the world, 235 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: such as with Waddox, a southern Spanish region containing around 236 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 1: two thousand caves that have been used as homes for generations. 237 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: And you look at pictures of these and there's really 238 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: quite uh. The design is very interesting to look at 239 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: because in many cases, like the walls are painted, they 240 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: look like rooms in in home. You know that they 241 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 1: don't don't look like cave dwellers. They look like relatively 242 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: modern people living in a shelter that just happens to 243 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: be part of a naturally occurring cave. Well. They're also 244 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: still underground homes in Tunisia. In fact, some of these 245 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: underground homes make an appearance in the first Star Wars movie. 246 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: So Luke's house in the first Star Wars is you 247 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: know Uncle Owan and Aunt Brew where they live. That's 248 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: sort of modeled after a type of Tunisian dwelling where 249 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: there is a central crater type structure. It's like a 250 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: big pit in the ground, and then around the ring 251 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: of the crater there are dugout rooms that you can 252 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: go into. Very interesting. I didn't realize that. I always 253 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: thought it was just an elaborate set, I guess, or 254 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 1: an actual space house. I didn't think about the idea 255 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: that this would be an actual home or based upon 256 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: an actual home design from that region. There's a cool 257 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: photo gallery on on the Atlantic website that that documents 258 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: some of what these houses look like in more recent decades. Cool, 259 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: and there, of course other plenty of other examples we 260 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: can point to of sporadic underground dwellings they're parts of 261 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: Australia where you still see a fair number of underground dwellings. 262 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: And then I feel like, at least when I was 263 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: growing up, there were at least a couple of underground 264 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: houses in the county where I lived, because there were 265 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of tornatic activity in the region, and 266 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: there was at least one house where It's like somebody 267 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: was like, screw it, I'm not putting up with this 268 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: fear of tornadoes anymore. I'm living under the ground. And 269 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: then they did it. Wow. Yeah. In fact, I think 270 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 1: I knew somebody who lived in an underground house in 271 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: southern Middle Tennessee. It's all basement. It's all basement. Yeah. Well, 272 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: I guess that has certain advantages. It probably a certain 273 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: disadvantages too, I would I would think, for example, the 274 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: lack of exposure to sunlight would eventually psychologically get to you. 275 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: Oh yes, And that's a that's of course, that's a 276 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: whole other side of the equation when you start imagining 277 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: permanent dwelling underground and what that does to our circadian rhythms. 278 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: But generally speaking, we're thinking about creatures that are going 279 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: to come back out again with with with regularity to 280 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: obtain the resources they need. You would kind of have 281 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: to write because I mean you mentioned that, for example, 282 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: the city uh in an ancient Turkey, this underground city. 283 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: It had like a winery, but it couldn't have a 284 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: vineyard under the ground, right, and then they weren't making 285 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: mushroom wine, um likely. So you know, we mentioned the Descent. 286 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: Even the monsters in the Descent were leaving their caves 287 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: to pray, because there's the whole scene where their bones 288 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: piled up. They have this uh this is these midden 289 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: heaps of the things that they've been eating, and it's 290 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 1: it's it's shown that they've been eating deer like they're 291 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: going to the surfaced hunt, presumably at night. So yeah, 292 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: we have plenty of underground to have it as today. 293 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: And also certainly if you go to a major modern city, 294 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: you go to New York City, you're gonna find plenty 295 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 1: of people living in basements. You know that there there 296 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 1: there's there's still an underground too many um surface dwellings 297 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: that rise into the sky. And then we have plenty 298 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:51,360 Speaker 1: of underground complexes that can sometimes be repurposed as a shelter. 299 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: For instance, we did uh an episode talking about mosquitoes 300 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: in the London underground and their evolution, and we in 301 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: that we discussed how during the Second World War the 302 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,280 Speaker 1: London underground, the subway system there was used as a 303 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: bomb shelter. And then we have cases of homeless individuals 304 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: living and abandoned subways, railroads, flood sewage tunnels, heating shafts 305 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: in various metropolitan areas around the world. Uh. If you've 306 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: ever seen the two thousand your two thousand documentary Dark Days, Uh, 307 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: that documentary looks at people living in Freedom Tunnel in 308 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 1: New York City during the mid nineteen nineties. So thus 309 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: far we've looked at religious reasons, survival reasons, um, infrastructure reasons, 310 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: even a little bit to dig tunnels under the earth. 311 00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: But another major reason to go digging around and crawling 312 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: around under the earth like you're some mener of worm, 313 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: is of course, to mine precious resources, find that pot 314 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: of gold exactly. In fact, we just talked recently in 315 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: an episode of Invention the role that copper mining might 316 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: have played in the origins of wheel technology. That's right, 317 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: So humans figured out that these were press as resources 318 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: that we could do things with them that give us 319 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 1: a very important advantages over our fellow humans, and in 320 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: doing so, we quickly ate up all the the easily 321 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: acquired deposits of these materials. So instead we just started 322 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: digging a tunnel. There's more down there, right, and then 323 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: you need you need things like like wheels to remove 324 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: them from those tunnels. So we do find plenty of 325 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: examples of pretty old minds in human history. The oldest 326 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 1: mine in the world is thought to be the the 327 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: Church Silica mine at Naslette Sabaja in in Egypt, and 328 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,400 Speaker 1: it's estimated to have been in use around a hundred 329 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: thousand years ago. That's crazy old. That's long before like 330 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: settled civilization, long before agriculture. And it's in mining that 331 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: we find some of the most incredible feats of tunneling, uh, 332 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: even before the twentieth century. So in Kimberly South Africa 333 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,200 Speaker 1: and South Africa is a region where we see some 334 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: some pretty incredible, slash terrifying feats in mining. Um between 335 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:09,200 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy and nineteen forty, fifty thousand laborers moved twenty 336 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: two million tons of earth and reached the depth of 337 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: seven hundred nine ft or two hundred forty in search 338 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: of diamonds. And this is uh, this is a dig 339 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: that's currently not known today as the Big Hole, and 340 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: it is considered the largest hand dug pit in the 341 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: world hand dug yes, well that yeah, so not using 342 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of mechanical aid. Less impressive certainly 343 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: from the air, but still pretty impressive in its depth. 344 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: Is uh is woodingden Well in the UK. It's an 345 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: impressive hand dug well that reaches h one thousand, two 346 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty five ft or three hundred ninety into 347 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 1: the earth. And uh BBC's the deepest holes dug by 348 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: hand points out that it's as deep as the Empire 349 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: State Building is tall. And that's just well, that's the 350 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: hand dug well. Well, I think they did well. Uh, 351 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: let's say on that note, Yes, let's definitely take a break, folks. 352 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: You should know I just said that and then I 353 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: said we could cut it, and then I said it again, 354 00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: So it's got to be time for a break. Thank 355 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: Thank Alright, we're back. So let's talk about some of 356 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 1: the modern day marvels of digging in the dirt. Uh. 357 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 1: Modern minds are even more impressive because, of course, we 358 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 1: have enhanced tunneling machinery that allows us to be dig deeper, 359 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: dig harder, if you will. And also, of course we 360 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: have just better ability to blow up the rock and 361 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: do so in a way that actually achieves our goals 362 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: of digging deeper. And uh and we mentioned South Africa earlier, 363 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: and our most impressive mining operations are to be found 364 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: in South Africa, specifically the Tawtona and Opponent mines, which 365 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: have broken through around uh four kilometers or two point 366 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: four five two point five miles of rock. So we're 367 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: talking mines that are so deep that it takes an 368 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: hour to elevator down to the bottom. And you have 369 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,880 Speaker 1: to have a powerful, just an extremely powerful air conditioning 370 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: system essentially like shoveling um ice down to the depths, 371 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: because you have to balance out the hundred and thirty 372 00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: eight degree fahrenheit fifty nine degrees celsius temperatures in the 373 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: surrounding rocks. Wow. So that's weird because I normally think 374 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: of going down into a cave is uh something that 375 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: that makes you nice and cool? I mean, I guess 376 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: unless it's like cold outside. I mean, one great thing 377 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: about an underground environment is that it tends to have 378 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 1: a pretty regulated temperature if you're at a certain depth. Right, 379 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,200 Speaker 1: this is the wine seller um uh situation. It's a 380 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: place where you can keep a standard temperature for whatever 381 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: you're storingly, but basement a wine seller is probably not 382 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: going to go two and a half miles down into 383 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: the earth. Uh. By the way, with these minds, when 384 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: we're talking about trying to balance out the temperatures, the 385 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: air conditioning systems usually get temperatures uh back down to 386 00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: a more reasonable eighty two degrees fahrenheit twenty eight degrees celsius. 387 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: So it's still hot. Yes, it's hot. Uh. These your 388 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: dangerous places. The taw tone of mine today has some 389 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: I read four miles or eight hundred kilometers of tunnels, 390 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: and it employs some fifty six thousand miners. And there 391 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: are some whole books have been written about just the 392 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: scale of these mining operations and the like. The type 393 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: of the technological details alone are pretty incredible, but then 394 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: also the cultural asides about ghost miners, people who like 395 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: sneak into the mines and what percentage of say gold, 396 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: for for instance, is is pilfered, But then also how 397 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: relatively little gold they have to actually mine out of 398 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: the Earth to get a profit, because even though most 399 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,360 Speaker 1: of the gold on Earth we mostly don't do much 400 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: with it. It's it's it's extremely useful in in various electronics, 401 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: but we're only using a fraction of that gold for 402 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: those electronics. Per This is the rest we're wearing and 403 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: looking at and and thing, oh isn't that sparkly and 404 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: putting in a vault. Well, I'm interested in the idea 405 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: of so that gold is down there where it's really hot, 406 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: and you've got to pump in ice or air conditioning 407 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: or something to keep you keep yourself from overheating while 408 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: you're trying to mind whatever the stuff is. And the 409 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: question is why why does it get so hot when 410 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: you go deep underground? I mean, we all know that 411 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: it does get hot as you go towards the center 412 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: of the earth, But why does that happen? Yeah, and 413 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: I should point out to that we've known about this 414 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: for a while. It was known even in medieval times. 415 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: Uh as mining efforts made it obvious that that, you know, 416 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: they weren't going quite that deep, but they were still 417 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: going deep enough to tell that things were getting warmer. 418 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: And so, first of all, there's an incorrect answer to 419 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: this question, and that is because you're getting closer and 420 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: closer to Hell, and Hell is really hot, right, Well 421 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: not if you're Dante. Right. Well, well that's true because 422 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 1: well I guess there were hot parts and cold parts, yes, 423 00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: but the very center was cold. When you get down 424 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: to the lake local Itis, it is frozen solid for sure. 425 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: So uh so yeah, I always fall back on Dante's 426 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: model there, But the general idea is is Hell is 427 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: hot and and so one could mistakenly think, Wow, he's 428 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: gonna get hotter when you dig down to the Earth 429 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: because you're getting closer to all of that. Uh that 430 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:22,959 Speaker 1: what heavy sweaty uh fiery brimstone. In fact, they're one 431 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: of my favorite art Bell clips out there. Art Bell 432 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: but there was a Coast to Coast the old radio 433 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: show where they often talked about ideas, Yeah, like late 434 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: night paranormal conspiracy radio stuff. Yeah. One of the my 435 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,679 Speaker 1: favorite clips was about the Sounds of Hell, where they 436 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: had this recording that was allegedly made via microphone which 437 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: was lowered into Hell via a hole in Siberia. Yeah, 438 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: he got a note from a listener that, uh, he 439 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 1: had already reported on the fact that geologists had drilled 440 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: a hole to hell, and a listener got in touch 441 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: with them and was like, hey, this story is true. 442 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: My uncle collected videos and audio tapes to the paranormal 443 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,159 Speaker 1: and he had an audio tape of this and I 444 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: copied it and it originally I think he said it 445 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: came from the BBC or something, but that they had 446 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: the evidence for hell and they were sitting on it. 447 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: And this is a great hoax story. This is part 448 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 1: of the whole Well to Hell hoax that was reported 449 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 1: over and over by tabloids and religious publications in the 450 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties and the nineties. Um, I've got a good 451 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: quote here that is quoted in the Snopes article on this, 452 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 1: on this hoax, But this quote came from a book 453 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: in n Are You Ready, Robert, Let's do it? Okay. 454 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 1: Geologists working somewhere in remote Siberia had drilled a hole 455 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:46,000 Speaker 1: some fourteen point four kilometers deep about nine miles when 456 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: the drill bits suddenly began to rotate wildly. A Mr. Asakov, 457 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: identified as the project's manager, was quoted as saying they 458 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: decided that the center of the Earth was hollow. Supposedly, 459 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: the geologists measured temperatures of over two thousand degrees in 460 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 1: the whole. They lowered supersensitive microphones to the bottom of 461 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:08,720 Speaker 1: the well, and to their astonishment, they heard the sounds 462 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 1: of thousands, perhaps millions, of suffering souls screaming. Uh so, 463 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: according to Snopes, long before this ever appeared on The 464 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: Art Bell Show, it was reported on the Christian station 465 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: the known as Trinity Broadcasting Network. I think that still 466 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: exists t N. I remember it. I don't know if 467 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: it still exists. I think it does. What it was 468 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,080 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, they featured this story on tb N. 469 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: It was also in the Weekly World News in nineteen two. 470 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: Is Weekly World News the one with bat Boy? I 471 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: think it may have been, yes, but the Weekly World 472 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: News version changed the location to Alaska and had the 473 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: report ending with the claim that Satan himself came up 474 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: out of the hole and the thirteen workers were killed 475 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: in the incident, which, of course is basically the minds 476 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,920 Speaker 1: of Maria all over again. They're basically saying the dwarves 477 00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 1: got to then they do to. Yeah, but one of 478 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: the workers yelled, you shall not pass. I love it 479 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: this story too, though, it's it's so ridiculous because it's 480 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: like like, here is an example of science proving our 481 00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: religious ideas, proving our supernatural model as accurate. But did 482 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,199 Speaker 1: those people before this story literally think that hell was 483 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,919 Speaker 1: physically underground? It's just like a place you could go 484 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: to if you dig that deep. I don't this would 485 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: be something worth exploring because I don't know. I don't 486 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: get that that that sense a lot from older religious 487 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: writing that that Hell is is literally in the ground. Um. 488 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there are some like if you 489 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: go like to you know, the original like mythical texts 490 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: and stuff, there's stuff like that, you know that heaven 491 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 1: is literally physically in the sky, that the underworld is 492 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: literally physically under the ground. I don't. I didn't get 493 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,879 Speaker 1: the sense that many people believed that in the modern world, 494 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: Like we're people aligned with TB and did they get 495 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: this story and they're like, finally, you know, I knew 496 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: there was something about this whole hell thing that didn't 497 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: sit right with me. And it was like, well, I 498 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: don't you know, if it's down there, we would have 499 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 1: proof of it. Somebody would have drilled down there and 500 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: recorded the sounds of the anguish. Well, people don't often 501 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: drill that deep as we'll discuss in a moment. So 502 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: about the sounds of Hell. I don't know should we 503 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: feature should we feature this recording at all on the podcast? 504 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: Let's do it. Here's a taste, just a warning. It 505 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: does sound really scary. It's like a it is made 506 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: to sound scary. So it's a scary sound of people screaming. 507 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: Fair warning. So that sound clip, the sounds used in 508 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 1: the Well to Hell hoax tape appear to be a 509 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: Then people figured this out, a looped and reprocessed version 510 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: of a clip from a movie called Barren Blood from 511 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two. I looked it up and hey, it 512 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: stars Joseph Cotton. Everything comes back to Joseph Cotton on 513 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: this podcast. Is there a single topic that hasn't at 514 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: some point led us back to Joseph Cotton. He was 515 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: in so many films from The Third Man in Citizen Kane, 516 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 1: you know, classics of of of cinema from that era 517 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: to uh stuff like Soilent Green uh and also various 518 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: installments of euro horror, including one of my favorites, Screamers, 519 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 1: The Island of the Fishmen. Uh. And yeah, just a 520 00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: lot of trashy like Gallo movies and and seventies junk. So, uh, 521 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: Barren Blood. I haven't seen it. I was I wish 522 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,280 Speaker 1: I'd had time to watch it last night because it 523 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,320 Speaker 1: looks like some some righteous trash um. But it was 524 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: directed by Mario Bava. It has that grimy Mario Bava 525 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 1: movie kind of look. And the Snopes right up traces 526 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: the origin of this whole Well to Hell hoax to 527 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: a hugely embellished take on reports in Scientific American published 528 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 1: in nineteen four about a real drilling project called the 529 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: Cola Super Deep Borehole, which we'll be back to in 530 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: a minute. So someone was literally like, well, they're digging 531 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: that deep, they're gonna touch, they're gonna reach Hell, and 532 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: then we're gonna hear about it. And then someone said, well, 533 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: I'll just go ahead and make that. I just saw 534 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: this movie called Baron Blood, which, by the way, you 535 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: you shared the trailer clip with me, and I'm not 536 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: a mistaken. The trailer itself has that, or at least 537 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: a taste of that, the sound of Hell in it, screaming, screaming, 538 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: going on. Yeah. I should also add they did not 539 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: in this story about the sounds from Hell. They didn't 540 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: dig near deep enough to reach Hell. If Hell's at 541 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 1: the center of the Earth, like they they didn't even 542 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: maybe they reach like the outer the outskirts of a 543 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: gigantic Hell. I mean, Earth would have to be so 544 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: hollow for that, for like everything below like fourteen something 545 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: point something kilometers down to be hollow. Yeah, and Earth 546 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: would then be mostly Hell, which is ridiculous. It maybe 547 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: more befitting of like of a of a theology that 548 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: really embrace and cherishes the idea of Hell is a 549 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: vital aspect of its of its structure, like because that's 550 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,560 Speaker 1: the ugly reality. Great, you have a creation that's mostly people, 551 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: sort tormented throughout all eternity, the thin layer of people 552 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: sort of getting along on the surface. Uh. Great creation. Yeah, 553 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: I mean I guess if you believe pretty much everybody 554 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: goes to Hell, Hell's got to be huge. But then 555 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: how would how would Earth have a magnetosphere with a 556 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: Hell this big? What's whereould the core dynamo effect come from? 557 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: I have to look kind of answers in Genesis for 558 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: that one show. Um, but but wait, we were asking 559 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: a question. We got sidetracks talking about the well to Hell. 560 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: No that we're asking a question about so we know 561 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: that Earth actually does get hotter as you go deeper 562 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: down into the ground. Why does that happen. It's not 563 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: because you're getting close to hell, but somehow it's getting hotter. Okay, 564 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: so yeah, the the actual answer goes along these lines. 565 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: So geologists calculate that for every mile you dig down, 566 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: the temperature rises fifteen degrees fahrenheit and the pressure increases 567 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: at a rate of seven thousand, three hundred pounds per 568 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: square inch. Roughly go down deep enough and the temperature 569 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: and pressure is enough to form diamonds. Now, this is 570 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 1: something that that learned minds noted, and uh one one 571 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,960 Speaker 1: in particular was Lord Kelvin, who lived through nineteen o seven, 572 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: and he theorized that this was due to the cooling 573 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: of the Earth and that that that he could use 574 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: temperature readings to actually calculate the age of the Earth. 575 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: We talked about this in our two episodes on the 576 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: Edge of the Earth. We talked about Kelvin's attempts to 577 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: to gauge the age of the Earth this way. His 578 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:37,360 Speaker 1: he was sort of on the right track, but his 579 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: calculations were off right. And so this is just a 580 00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 1: short version of this if you want the longer version, 581 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 1: we advise you to listen to that episode to the 582 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:46,080 Speaker 1: age of the Earth thing is the two part. It 583 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: wasn't it? It was so, But basically he thought, yeah, 584 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: twenty million years seems about right. He was wrong because 585 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: one of the reasons that he didn't know about radioactivity 586 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,400 Speaker 1: in the Earth contributing to the heating to know about 587 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: convection cycles and the inner layers of the Earth. So 588 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,480 Speaker 1: there are actually multiple reasons that Earth gets hotter the 589 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: deeper you go down, right, and none of them are 590 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: hell uh. So, there are three main sources for heat 591 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: in the deep Earth. There's heat from when the planet 592 00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: was formed and created. There's frictional heating caused by a 593 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: denser core materials sinking to the center. And then there's 594 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: heat from the decay of radioactive elements. And these causes 595 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: are according to an Explainer article by Quentin Williams, who's 596 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: a professor of Earth sciences, that you see Santa Cruz. 597 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: So partially it's just always been hot since it was 598 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: ever formed, and it's been cooling off ever since. Partially 599 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: there's like some rubbing going on down there that's causing 600 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: some heat, and partially you've got like uranium and stuff 601 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: that is decaying and given and that fission causes heat. 602 00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: But ultimately the Earth has this has this inner heat 603 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: cycle that's going on, that's that's removed from the heat 604 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: that comes from the sun. But you see that, I 605 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 1: mean like the heat that comes from the sun as well. 606 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,640 Speaker 1: I guess these are these are finite sources of heat, right, 607 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: because if you've got some heat that's just left over 608 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: from the formation of the Earth has been slowly cooling down, 609 00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: it will just keep cooling down until it gets colder 610 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,720 Speaker 1: and colder. Uh, the heat from the decay of radioactive elements. 611 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: Eventually those things will pass their half life. They will 612 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: just decay more and more until they reach stabile isotopes, 613 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: though for some of them this will take a really 614 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,200 Speaker 1: long time. Right. And we should also point out that 615 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,440 Speaker 1: the mysteries remain about the interior of the Earth that 616 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: we don't know, that we don't fully understand. One of 617 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: the ways that we we hope to increase our understanding 618 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: is by drilling down into it. Now certainly not like 619 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: sending people down to the mantle, but certainly, but by 620 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: reaching the mantle, that alone would be an important step 621 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 1: towards better understanding the interior of the planet. Wait, are 622 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: you telling me that that movie where they drill to 623 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,880 Speaker 1: the core is it called the Core? Is not scientifically 624 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: accurate and not sending people down there pretty much. I 625 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: love science fiction that has some sort of a fabulous 626 00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: drilling submarine that that takes people down into the depths, 627 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: usually to some sort of interior hollow earth scenario. I 628 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: love those films, but it's just not ultimately not realistic. Uh. 629 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,839 Speaker 1: I like that movie. I haven't seen it. I feel 630 00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: like I should see it at some point because the 631 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,320 Speaker 1: dare you judge it without saying it? Well, the premise 632 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:19,719 Speaker 1: is so funny to me because it's like normally when 633 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,600 Speaker 1: you've got some kind of journey to the center of 634 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,280 Speaker 1: the earth that the Jewels Verne novel, that makes sense 635 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: because it has incorrect ideas about what's down there under 636 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: the surface. You know, there's another land and it can 637 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,400 Speaker 1: have creatures and all that, so there's like stuff to 638 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,640 Speaker 1: do down there with the Core. I assume it just 639 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,920 Speaker 1: has a basically accurate idea that, like the Earth is 640 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,240 Speaker 1: made of rock and you know, solid material, so what's 641 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: down there? They're going on an adventure just drilling into 642 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: solid material. But where are the monsters? What's what's there 643 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,879 Speaker 1: to do? Yeah? Where are the bout the ball rocks? Right? 644 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,919 Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be happy to be surprised, but it's 645 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 1: so anyway that the goal has been to drill down 646 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 1: through roughly twenty five miles of crust to reach the mantle, 647 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,960 Speaker 1: which makes up about the planet. One of the projects 648 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: that had the same was the United States Project Mohole, 649 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: which took a shot at in the late fifties and 650 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: early sixties, but they lost their funding funding. They made 651 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: it about five hundred and fifty seven feet down, and 652 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: this was a sea floor drilling. But the more impressive one, 653 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: the one that we referenced already, was the Cola Super 654 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,560 Speaker 1: Deep but bore hole in Russia. So this one they 655 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,760 Speaker 1: managed to get down forty thousand, two hundred thirty ft 656 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: or twelve thousand, two hundred sixty two meters uh, it's 657 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: about seven point five miles. They did this over twenty 658 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: years of drilling, and ultimately we're about halfway to the 659 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:45,200 Speaker 1: mantle at this point. The effort was abandoned in the 660 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 1: early nineties when they encountered higher temperatures than expected, though 661 00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: they were prepared for about two hundred and twelve degree 662 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,719 Speaker 1: farenheight temperature has been encountered three hundred and fifty six 663 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: and uh, this is apparently still the record for how 664 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: far we've successfully successfully drilled down into our planet. And 665 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 1: again that's the one that like at least some of 666 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 1: the debunkers seemed to think that the idea of the 667 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 1: well to Hell came from like there were stories about this. 668 00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: So this was in nine four, I think or in 669 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 1: the eighties, and then there were like articles about it 670 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: in Scientific American and and I assume other publications, and 671 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: that this probably got warped into the idea of the 672 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,919 Speaker 1: drilling and breaking through, right like if if Cola had 673 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: actually hit Hell, that would mean Hell is in the 674 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: crust of the Earth, is not even in the mantle. It' 675 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: certainly not in the core. But you know, I'm gonna 676 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: I'll leave that alone for now. Other depoles of note, 677 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: there's a BPS Deepwater Horizon which when it was operational 678 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 1: made it down what thirty thousand feet or about five miles. 679 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: Japanese drill ship Cheek you reached ten thousand feet or 680 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: two miles into the sea floor, and they're actually aiming 681 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,800 Speaker 1: to go much deeper with that particular drill project, because 682 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: they want to go even deeper and they they plan 683 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 1: to break the record by around is when they look 684 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,720 Speaker 1: to start drilling. So in the future we may see, uh, 685 00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: we may see an even higher figure on our descent. 686 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 1: So maybe that's when we actually reach the lava men. 687 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: Maybe so. But but then again, it would just be 688 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be us. It would be you know, the 689 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,239 Speaker 1: pro the sensor or something of that nature. I mean, 690 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be us at all, not not just because humans. 691 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: There's no reason for humans to go down right, as 692 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: far as I can tell, the deepest humans have been 693 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,319 Speaker 1: in the Earth is probably two point five miles or 694 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: four kilometers at the Opponent gold mine in South Africa. 695 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,919 Speaker 1: But that's deep. That's that's deep. I mean, it's still 696 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: very impressive, but it's just it's such a small fraction 697 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 1: when you start looking at the at the overall depths 698 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: of the Earth. Alright, Well, on that note, we're gonna 699 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: take one more break and when we come back, we're 700 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 1: gonna look to the future a little bit. Uh what 701 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,960 Speaker 1: else could humans do underneath the surface of this planet 702 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,839 Speaker 1: or another planet? Thank alright, we're back. Alright, So we're 703 00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: talking about underground dwelling humans making a habitat underneath the surface. 704 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,360 Speaker 1: And one thing I think we've sort of touched on 705 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,640 Speaker 1: a little bit on the podcast before is space colonization 706 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 1: becoming a route for us to become the lava men 707 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: of other planets, to to to go down under the 708 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,959 Speaker 1: surface of another planet with Lord kin boat and set 709 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 1: up residents there. Now, why would we do that? So 710 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: other planets do not have all of the protections that 711 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,760 Speaker 1: Earth has from dangerous radiation. That's the main reason. Earth 712 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: has a thick atmosphere to absorb incoming radiation. It also 713 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,720 Speaker 1: has a magnetic field known as the magnetosphere, is created 714 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: by the dynamo of its iron nickel core, and this 715 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,440 Speaker 1: magnetic field also repels incoming radiation. Other planets and objects 716 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 1: in space do not have the same protective advantages. For example, 717 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: the Moon and Mars. Mars does not have a core 718 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: dynamo to produce a strong magnetic field to repel and 719 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,279 Speaker 1: coming radiation. Also, Mars has a much much thinner atmosphere 720 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: than Earth, less than one percent as thick as the 721 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 1: Earth's atmosphere. So this just means when you're on the 722 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: surface of Mars, there's a lot more radiation flux. The 723 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: radiation is um is more variable, and you can get 724 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,319 Speaker 1: surges of it in different places and times, and it's 725 00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: just generally also much higher. So without these radiation shields, 726 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: long term life on the surface of Mars for a 727 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,359 Speaker 1: colonist would be inconsistent. But in the net it would 728 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,400 Speaker 1: be a high level radiation bath. Like levels seem to 729 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,880 Speaker 1: be such that you could probably survive there for a 730 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: short period. It's not like you would just immediately die 731 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: of radiation poisoning, but it would not be a good 732 00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: place to live long term for say, a permanent colony. 733 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: For example, to quote from a article by the space 734 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,080 Speaker 1: journalist Mike wall Quote, a mission consisting of a one 735 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: eight day cruise to Mars, a five hundred day stay 736 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: on the red planet, a one day return flight to 737 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: Earth would expose astronauts to a cumulative radiation dose of 738 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 1: about one point o one siverts measured by curiosities, radiation 739 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: assessment detector or rad instrument indicate. To put that in perspective, 740 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,560 Speaker 1: the European Space Agency generally limits its astronauts to a 741 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,839 Speaker 1: total career radiation dose of one cevert, which is associated 742 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:27,479 Speaker 1: with a five percent increase in lifetime fatal cancer risk. 743 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,279 Speaker 1: So that's just for a five hundred days stay on 744 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,320 Speaker 1: the surface. Now, of course, a lot of that radiation 745 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: in that calculation there's coming from the trip to and 746 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: from Mars. Where you're in space, you're gonna be getting 747 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:39,719 Speaker 1: the most. Then once you get to Mars, there's some 748 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 1: reduction because you've got the planet behind you. That helps, 749 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: you know, but you're still getting a lot bombarded from space, 750 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 1: way more than you would get protected on the surface 751 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,879 Speaker 1: of the Earth. So one solution here once you get 752 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,200 Speaker 1: to Mars is to go underground, where the soil and 753 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: rock above will help protect the colonists from radiation if 754 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 1: they're gonna be staying a long time. But you can 755 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 1: think about this in a few Number one is like, Okay, 756 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: let's say you want to dig a deep hole. That 757 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: would be kind of difficult because it's you know, you're 758 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: on Mars. That's a lot of work to do. You 759 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: have to bring literally everything with you. You have to 760 00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: bring your habitat, you have to bring your food, your air. Uh. 761 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,319 Speaker 1: And then on top of that you're talking about having 762 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,360 Speaker 1: to bring the equipment to dig tunnels in the Martian 763 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: surface and create a space for all this stuff to 764 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: go and for you to live. Yeah, like an excavator 765 00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,479 Speaker 1: or something like that. I mean that that's that's rough. 766 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: So one proposed work around here is to establish colonist 767 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 1: habitats in lava tubes. This has been proposed for Mars 768 00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:42,880 Speaker 1: and for the Moon. Uh So, I put in a 769 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: selection of images taken from satellite photos of things that 770 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,280 Speaker 1: look like openings to lava tubes on the surface of Mars. 771 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,320 Speaker 1: But I've got a really cool one. That's a photo 772 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: from the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment or high Rise camera, 773 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: which is on board the Mars Reconnaissance orbiter. I love 774 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,520 Speaker 1: this photo. It's very haunting. I believe this is taken 775 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: from Pavonis Mons. But it's a crater, and then in 776 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,439 Speaker 1: the middle of the crater there's clearly just a hole 777 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: where you can see the shadow and the light falling 778 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,239 Speaker 1: across an inner cavity down below, and you can even 779 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 1: see what we're like, the sand from the crater is 780 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: falling down into the hole. So these lava tubes would 781 00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,319 Speaker 1: have been created because, of course Mars and the Moon 782 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: had periods of vulcanism in their past. The biggest volcano 783 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,839 Speaker 1: in the Solar System actually is not on Earth. It's 784 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: not even on the yellow volcano hell World of Io, 785 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:37,360 Speaker 1: the moon of Jupiter. It's on Mars. Olympus Mons is 786 00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: the biggest volcano in the Solar System. It's a volcano 787 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: more than twice as tall as Mount Everest. And so 788 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: you can find these lava tubes on on Mars and 789 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: the Moon, and they could be not only somewhat suitable 790 00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: to house uh colonies, they can they can in some 791 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:56,440 Speaker 1: cases be huge. One example I found is that studies 792 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 1: have shown the possible size of lava tubes on the 793 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 1: surface of the Moon to be just enormous, like lunar 794 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: lava tubes tend to be bigger than lava tubes on Earth. 795 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: Based on leads and data from the Selene spacecraft and 796 00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: the Grail mission, researchers at Perdue University were able to 797 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,839 Speaker 1: predict that at least one lava tube near a group 798 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:19,480 Speaker 1: of volcanic domes on the Moon called the Marius Hills 799 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,959 Speaker 1: was at least large enough to to hold the entire 800 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:30,240 Speaker 1: city of Philadelphia inside it. So space Philadelphia, We're space 801 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,640 Speaker 1: Rocky jogs this and maybe this is where the their 802 00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: their sports mascot is from. Was their sports mask. I 803 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:40,759 Speaker 1: don't think have any sports mascot. The frightening red one 804 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: with no face. Oh yeah, the googly eyed pervert thing. 805 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I think that's their their icon. Oh that's 806 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: a moon man. Yeah, but no, this is this isn't 807 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,720 Speaker 1: incredible The idea that these these are essentially just large 808 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,719 Speaker 1: caverns uh in in the planet or in this case, 809 00:44:57,760 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: that the lunar surface. Yeah, and I think this is 810 00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: it's because they are is because of the gravity of 811 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: the Moon being different. I think that they can tend 812 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,680 Speaker 1: to be larger on the Moon than they usually are 813 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:11,120 Speaker 1: on Earth. This is comforting to anybody out there who 814 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,279 Speaker 1: is running Dungeons and Dragons campaign in the under dark, 815 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: where you continually having adventures encounter large caverns with cities 816 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,920 Speaker 1: in them. You can just look to the lunar examples. 817 00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:27,360 Speaker 1: They will see here's here's how it might work. But 818 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: so anyway, I like to think that our our future 819 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: astronaut descendants who go out to colonize other objects in 820 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: the Solar System, the ones who live on the Moon 821 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,880 Speaker 1: or live on live on Mars, might end up somehow 822 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: being maybe culturally having some of the same environmental influences 823 00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,279 Speaker 1: as the Neanderthals who made the rings of stalagmites deep 824 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,680 Speaker 1: down in the dark in southwestern France. Oh wow, that 825 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: is fascinating to think about. Like, what are the so 826 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, some of the underground religions are often referred 827 00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: to as like the idea of cathonic cults, you know, 828 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: the cults of the underworld. Are are there certain ways 829 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,719 Speaker 1: that being in subterranean environments, are going into caves or 830 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,839 Speaker 1: into catacombs or whatever, tends to cause people to come 831 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,840 Speaker 1: up with certain cultural beliefs and religions. What are the 832 00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:17,719 Speaker 1: religions of the lava tube dwellers look like? Who I love? 833 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,719 Speaker 1: I love that idea? Um, you know, it would be 834 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,200 Speaker 1: remissing all of this if we didn't mention total recall though, 835 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,160 Speaker 1: because of course total recall, the original total recall, the 836 00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:32,240 Speaker 1: Arnold total Recall in total, Yes, the the the Michael 837 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: Ironside Total Recall. See you at the party rector exactly 838 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 1: this one. This film features underground habitats, and it's revealed 839 00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:45,840 Speaker 1: that the early stages of those underground habitats for early 840 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: colonists to Mars. They were essentially just caves that the 841 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,399 Speaker 1: people lived in um and and and that's and one 842 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,440 Speaker 1: of the curious things is that lines up with human 843 00:46:56,520 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: history and also some of these models regarding what colonizing 844 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,200 Speaker 1: an off world habitat would consist of, and also teaches 845 00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,319 Speaker 1: us not to put trust in caring for the resources 846 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:09,800 Speaker 1: of one of these off world colonies in the hands 847 00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:15,920 Speaker 1: of a greedy, evil corporation. Overlord, give the people to air. Indeed, 848 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:20,359 Speaker 1: give the people the air. Uh. Well, well, hopefully this 849 00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,160 Speaker 1: is a good, you know, first installment. I want to 850 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:25,640 Speaker 1: think of this as a first installment on some perhaps 851 00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,640 Speaker 1: deeper Earth and deeper life studies. Like I said, I'd 852 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,279 Speaker 1: like to come back and talk about the evolution of 853 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,440 Speaker 1: burrowing creatures, even if part of that is just a 854 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,920 Speaker 1: reason to talk about trimmers a little more. Uh, we 855 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: could definitely have some more fun with the idea of 856 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,280 Speaker 1: of deep Earth religions and the idea and religious ideas 857 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,920 Speaker 1: of the deep Earth. Yeah, there's a lot to explore here. Meanwhile, 858 00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 1: if you would like to dig deeper into stuff to 859 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:53,960 Speaker 1: blow your mind, head on't over to stuff to blow 860 00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,840 Speaker 1: your mind dot com. That is that is the home world. 861 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,080 Speaker 1: That's where you will find all of the podcasts we recorded, 862 00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,200 Speaker 1: going back to the very beginning to the very core 863 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,120 Speaker 1: of the planet. You'll also find links out to our 864 00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:09,600 Speaker 1: social media accounts. 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