1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,519 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table for a production of I Heart 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: Radio and adamize studios artists coming together in the restaurant. 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: You know, Picasso drawn on the tablecloth and all that 4 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: kind of thing. It's really known throughout history. But it 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,119 Speaker 1: is to do with the solitary nous of being in 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: the studio and the solitariness of being an artist being 7 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 1: very much alone. So this idea of coming together to 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:30,479 Speaker 1: eat is such a nice thing. Here we are and 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:36,159 Speaker 1: unseasonably wet and cold Saturday in London, but I feel warmed, 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 1: as I always am, by being with my friend Tracy Emmon. 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 1: She's a great friend and a great artist. Tracy, over 12 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: to you, okay, so I'm My favorite thing to eat 13 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: here is the grilled squid with shred, chili and rocket. 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: Eight medium squid no bigger than your hand. Six large 15 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: fresh red chilies, seeded and very finely chopped, a hundred 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: and fifty meal, extra virgin oil, two DRAMs of rocket, 17 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 1: four tablespoons of oil, and lemon dressing. One lemon cut 18 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: into quarters to make the sauce. Put the chopped chilies 19 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: in a bowl and cover with extra virgin olive oil, 20 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 1: season heat a grill until very hot. Place the squid, 21 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:36,440 Speaker 1: including the tentacles, scored side down on the grill, season 22 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: and grill for two minutes. Turn a squid pieces over. 23 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: They will immediately curl up and by which time they 24 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: will be cooked. Toss the rocket in the dressing. Arranged 25 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: two squid bodies with tentacles on each plate with the rocket. 26 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: Put a little of the chili sauce over the squid, 27 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: and serve with lemon. I'm so happy that you chose 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: such classic typically a representative of the River cafe recipe, 29 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:10,639 Speaker 1: and I was wondering why you chose squid chilian rocket. 30 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: When I go to a restaurant, I always like to 31 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: choose food that I wouldn't cook myself, but god, it's 32 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: so easy to cook, so maybe I should do it. 33 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: But then, and also I'm Mediterranean, so um squeeties such 34 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: a Mediterranean food, And I always have this sort of 35 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: light in a primal thing that if I can eat Mediterranean, 36 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,399 Speaker 1: eat part of my ancestral food as much as possible, 37 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: it makes me feel really good when I eat it, 38 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,680 Speaker 1: So that's why I chose it. When you say that 39 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: you're Mediterranean, tell me about being Mediterranean, because I thought 40 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: you were a market. Well Margat is yeah, Margaret Mediterranean market. 41 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: And well I'm Turkish Cypriot. My dad's Turkish Cypriot and 42 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 1: my great grandfather was from this Dan and he was 43 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: a slave in the Ottoman Empire and around eighteen, I 44 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: don't know, about nineteen hundred he was given his freedom 45 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: in Cyprus with fifty sheep. So we're known as the 46 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: there's a thing called like the black Turks, and they 47 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: actually came from the slaves from the Ottoman Empire, and 48 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:25,919 Speaker 1: my family on Mediterranean side is from that background, so um, 49 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: there's your Mediterranean. My dad was really fantastic cook, like 50 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: amazing cook. Grew all his own vegetables. We actually grew 51 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: all our ound. Me and my dad grew all up 52 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: all my vegetables on my studio roof back in the nineties. 53 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: Everything everything from cucumbers, grigettes, ob jeans, potatoes, tomatoes, heritage tomatoes, beans, 54 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: green beans, everything, and then my dad would cook so 55 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: and my mom was a terrible cook. I hate saying it, 56 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: both's true. And the kind of food I grew up 57 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: on was a kind of strange mixture of this sort 58 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: of really amazing food that my dad could cook. I'm 59 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: this really terrible food that my mom could cook that 60 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: I really loved, and what you loved mother's food, egg 61 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: and chips. My mom was completely against me cooking, and 62 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: when we were cooking at school, my mom would actually 63 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: wrote me letters saying, my daughter will not learn to cook. 64 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: My daughter is not going to be a slave to 65 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: any man. But the truth was we didn't actually have 66 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,040 Speaker 1: the money for the cooking ingredients, so my mom. But 67 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: even so it worked out kind of badly and kind 68 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: of good. I didn't learn to cook at school. Cooking 69 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: at school was pretty awful. And um, I only learned 70 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: to cook when I was much older, when I was 71 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: sort of a look around eighteen or nineteen, and even now, 72 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: I'm not a very good cook, but I really like 73 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,559 Speaker 1: nice food. Yeah, and what I cook, I cook well. So, yeah, 74 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: that's so interesting that she she didn't. I don't want 75 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 1: you to be stuck in the kitchen as a slave 76 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: or anyone to cook for her for a man, that's normal, yeah, 77 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: but in a way for that time, back in the seventies, 78 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: it was pretty radical as well. It's kind of like 79 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: a strange psychotomy because there's my father being a good cook, 80 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: and there's my mom being a bad cook, telling me 81 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: not to be a slave to any man. Girl, she was. 82 00:05:24,520 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: She ambitious for you and everywhere apart from keeping you 83 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 1: from cookie did she have very strong ambitions for you. 84 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: She put me on the pill when I was fourteen 85 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: to make sure I didn't get pregnant. That's pretty ambitious. 86 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: She's considered the idea of me having children to be 87 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: a complete failure and not a positive thing. So she 88 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: did everything to stop me from being a single mother 89 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: and a young single mother. But that's right or wrong, 90 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It seemed to have worked in my 91 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: favorite Yeah, and yeah, she's when I think about it, 92 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: she was really not. My mom was very co the person, 93 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: but she wasn't home based. Really wasn't her strong point. 94 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: Do you think she wanted to do something else for herself? Absolutely? 95 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: My mom was brilliant dancer and when she was sort 96 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: of around fifteen, she had in an interview audition in 97 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: a theater to for dancing, and her dad wouldn't let 98 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: her go when you left her? And how old were 99 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: we when you actually left your father's cooking? The deliciousness 100 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 1: of growing vegetables and what how how old were you. Actually, 101 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:35,799 Speaker 1: my dad never lived at home. My dad only spent 102 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: My dad left us when we were about seven, and 103 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,839 Speaker 1: my mom left us when we were twelve for quite 104 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,279 Speaker 1: long periods of time. So me and my twin brother 105 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: when we grew up, it was very different from other 106 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: people's backgrounds, and it was very impoverished. Were incredibly poor 107 00:06:54,520 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: were It's strange we had it. We were very wealthy 108 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,119 Speaker 1: when we had that grow up until we were seven, 109 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 1: and then my dad lost everything and my dad was married, 110 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: so my dad spent three days with his wife, three 111 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: days with my mom. We would say, one day somewhere else. 112 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: So um, and so when my dad was around, the 113 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: cooking or anything my dad did was like a big tree. 114 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: My dad came here in on a ten pound ticket 115 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,440 Speaker 1: from Cyprus, and then my mom's a gypsy, so it's 116 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: really quite exotic actually, you know. I was brought up 117 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: on pomgranites and watermelon and with with my dad and well, 118 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: my dad was at home, and then when I was older, 119 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: I started traveling to Turkey with him as soon as 120 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: we could go back to Cyprus. When I was I 121 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: think I was twenty when the war finished, my dad 122 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: took me to Cyprus and baby, we're going home. And 123 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: that was the first trips Turkey site for since I 124 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 1: was a baby. And and it was like amazing m 125 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: to be with my dad, to be living with my dad. 126 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: They're cooking everything, and and my mom was kind of 127 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: a bit piste off because all that she'd done for me. 128 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: And then suddenly I'm like, but I'm you know, on 129 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: my my father's when you started out by saying you're Mediterranean, 130 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: and so to actually probably go and see the Mediterraneans 131 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: and have the food. But when we when we were 132 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: up until we were about six, we would go to 133 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: Turkey regularly once a year, and we spent when we 134 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: were really tiny, we spent two periods of six months there. 135 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: Once when I was about three or four, and then 136 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: another time when I was six, we spent six months 137 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 1: there and and all that time it would have been 138 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: Mediterranean food and Mediterranean cooking. And we used to drive 139 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: to Turkey, and this is really cool. We used to 140 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: have in the back of the our car. We had 141 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,160 Speaker 1: a Zodiac. We had these little tiny wooden chairs, you know, 142 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: with the rapportive seats, and my dad just with a 143 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: brand new Zodio and my dad just stuck a hole 144 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: through the roof through the you know the bits, and 145 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: then got bongee plastic things around the chairs and then 146 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,480 Speaker 1: just sat us in the back of the car bouncing 147 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: up and we're twins bouncing up and down on these 148 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: chairs with those little knotty dogs, and we drive to Turkey, 149 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: and we'd stop on the way all the time, and 150 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: my dad would get the calor gas stove out and 151 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: fry eggs and cook and everything, and we'd go go 152 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: to fields and take watermelons and and things. So it 153 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: was really exciting and like adventurous these drives. And I'm 154 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:46,599 Speaker 1: being I'm romanticizing about it now because it is romantic, 155 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: and it was different and it was different from everybody 156 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,320 Speaker 1: else's upbringing that I knew. And so we went from 157 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: that to this, like to squatting in a cottage and 158 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: my mom working in a hotel as a waitress send 159 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,439 Speaker 1: a chamber maid, and so it was like from high 160 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: to like really fast, a reversal of fortune when you 161 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: were having to cook for yourself. Did you what did 162 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: you read? What did you do? There was so my 163 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 1: mom was out a lot most of the time, working 164 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: leading and at weekends as well, she'd be out to 165 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: three in the morning, so we were on our own 166 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: and often my mom would leave our sandwiches and whatever. 167 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: But my big thing was just like orange, just orange 168 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: squash and just tons of orange squash and sitting up 169 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: at night crocher and in bed and we and also 170 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: for example, like Christmas, like you said about this, a 171 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: lot of this podcast is about people sitting around the 172 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: table and remembering it. Oh there was no sitting around 173 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:47,839 Speaker 1: the table for me. It was sitting and watching, to 174 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: tell you, with a tray with egg and chips. You know, 175 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: when my mom came home and Christmas was not Christmas. 176 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: We didn't have Christmas because my mom was always working. 177 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: Our Christmas was like a week after and kind of 178 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: cobbled together, but it was never going to feel the 179 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: same as the real Christmas. And one remember we had 180 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: Salvation Army one year, you know, coming around with food 181 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: and presents because we didn't have anything. My mom, if 182 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: she didn't work, we had nothing. And that is a 183 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: very different upbringing to a lot of people, I know, 184 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: And it's not a thing to feel sorry for. I'm 185 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: just staying the difference. And also it's pretty shocking to 186 00:11:27,679 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: go from this wealthy thing of being quite spoiled as 187 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: well in lots of ways up until I was seven 188 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: and then nothing. Do you remember being hungry? Yeah, and 189 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: I think my mom remembers asked, my mom's dead now? 190 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: But you know, my mom this, this is one of 191 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: the most shameful things that I have to say, But 192 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 1: in a way, I'm sort of proud of her. When 193 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: that the hotel was derelict behind, my mom went climbing 194 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: on the roof and took lead off the roofs to 195 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: sell it so we had something to eat. And that 196 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: is on another level, complete different level. And so much 197 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: of this is down to education and so much and 198 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: it's like the cooking thing and education and food. There 199 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: is really better ways to do this. But when you 200 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: actually have nothing, and you're hear about these people women 201 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: shoplifting to get their babies food, and it seems unimaginable, 202 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: but it's not when you've been that poor, that's not. 203 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,600 Speaker 1: And it's happening now because we know that it's happening today, 204 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: and we know that. You know, when children couldn't get 205 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: to school because of the lockdown, they were missing the 206 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: only meal they had for the whole day. You know, 207 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: very many children only have lunch and that's it. I'm 208 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: a big supporter of the Salvation Army or sort mentioned earlier. 209 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: And the Salvation Army feed sixty people a day a day, 210 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: and it's more now and and all of these support 211 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: of food banking, margate or whatever. It is a really 212 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: really bad level. So um, yeah, And when you left, 213 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: when you left? When did did you? Did you London 214 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: at thirteen? Left school at thirteen, and I had to 215 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: go back to school by law for lost four months 216 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,920 Speaker 1: from Christmas till May. Otherwise my mom social services would 217 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: have been involved or whatever. And my mom my mom 218 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: didn't mind if we didn't go to school. And I 219 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: was brought up with absolutely no rules. And I guess 220 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: this might be slightly the gypsy side and things no 221 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,079 Speaker 1: rules whatsoever. We made our own rules up. If I 222 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 1: didn't want to go to school, I didn't go to school. 223 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: I didn't want to bush my teeth, I didn't want 224 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: to brush me. I wouldn't have sex, have sex as 225 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: long as I was not going to get pregnant. All 226 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: of these from the age of about thirteen fourteen, and 227 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: and not going to school was because school was so depressing. 228 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 1: It was like, oh my god, I'll get there and 229 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: they chaut at me, or this would happen, all that 230 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 1: would happen. I wasn't doing what I wanted to do, 231 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: So the last few months when I went back, I 232 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: just did art for four months more or less three 233 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: days a week, and then left when I was fifteen, 234 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: and then came to London the day I could leave school, 235 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 1: that the first of May, I think it was. I 236 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 1: just came straight to London with a bag to David 237 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: Bowie albums and some clothes and stare. I stayed in 238 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: all different places. I stayed in a school in Warren 239 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: Street which was pretty educational, with quite a lot of 240 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: well known they're quite well known people now, very successful 241 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: people lived there, and I stayed with different friends different floors. 242 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,200 Speaker 1: Stayed in a cupboard in Clapham for quite some time. 243 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: And and it's a real mystery how I never really 244 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: got into trouble or but I was kind of sassy 245 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: and sort of streetwise, so that saved me quite a bit. 246 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: So I learned a lot and I grew up, but 247 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: I was always a lot more mature from my age. 248 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: I don't know why. I just grew up very quickly. 249 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: I had to, and but I don't really have such 250 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: big regrets over that because it wasn't It wasn't my fault, 251 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't my doing. Do you have memories of food 252 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: in that poverty at that time in London when you 253 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 1: first came, it's okay. So this is my only Scott 254 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: memory of food at Warren Street. I was only fifteen 255 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: or sixteen and I turned up and they were in 256 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: the basement cooking there. A lot of them went to 257 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: St Martin's and the Royal College of Art whatever, so 258 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: it was a good influence in lots ways. And I 259 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: was so hungry and they said, you're hungry, traced us, 260 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: So I probably haven't eaten for about two days, wasn't it. 261 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: And then they told me they were cooking dog and 262 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 1: I believe them, so I wouldn't eat it. And that 263 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: was one of my And when I bring this up 264 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: but in a STOTEP, when I see any of them, 265 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: they always, yeah, it's not a good story. But that's 266 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: my only real big story about food. I think Parvarty, 267 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: you know, Parvarty and food youth and food lonely this 268 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: and food being the first into world but you don't 269 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: know where you're sleeping, what you're eating, you know, the 270 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: lack of being taken care of is It's true because 271 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: now I have this thing that I've work on, my 272 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: war cupboard, and I have one in in France and 273 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: my house there and one in London, and my war 274 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: cover is just full of like literally, if there was 275 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: like a war, I've got enough food to keep me 276 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: going in tins and tins of sardines and all kinds 277 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: of stuff and everything. And it just gives me a 278 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: sense of security. And I really love going shopping for 279 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: really nice food and putting it in the fridge and 280 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: looking at it, and it makes me feel so safe 281 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: and cozy and secure. And it's taken me a long 282 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: time to realize that I had to hang up about it. 283 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: I think probably only in the last few years that 284 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: I realized how much it meant to me to that 285 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: food makes you feel secure, uncomfortable. And for a long 286 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: time I didn't eat. I used to be so thin 287 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 1: and every day and whatnot. I didn't care about it. 288 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: I didn't care about food at all. For years and 289 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: years and years. I was very um, sort of not 290 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: anti food, but it just wasn't on my list of 291 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: things as a priority for living. But now now it 292 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: really is because because I understand about my strange relationship 293 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: with it and food and art and food and creating, 294 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: and you know, the the solitariness. I was thinking of 295 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,160 Speaker 1: an artist, you know, in the studio working and then 296 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: um going out at night and partying and having food, drinking, 297 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: being together with other artists when you were in art school, 298 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: was that something that you sort of where you exposed 299 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 1: to the idea that you all were painting and working together. 300 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: There was that whole What was it like being now? 301 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: When I when I was at art school, i worked. 302 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: I used to get in a ways, getting late in 303 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,159 Speaker 1: the morning, getting about quarter to eleven, which I was. 304 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: I went to Maidstone College of Art and the Royal 305 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,439 Speaker 1: College of Art. Did painting at the Royal College of Art. 306 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 1: When I was at Royal College of Art, I get 307 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: in about quarter to eleven in the morning and I'd 308 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: stayed at ten o'clock every night, and I'd work at 309 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: the weekends as well. I had no social life when 310 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: I was at the Royal College of Art, none at all. 311 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: Just worked every single day. So and but the thing 312 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: about artists and restaurants is brilliant because then after I 313 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 1: left art school years later when when I m I 314 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: think one of the first things I did as soon 315 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: as I started having got money was oysters, and I 316 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: just I love oysters, and I all of my excess 317 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: income was spent on oysters. Absolutely. However, anywhere everywhere I'd go, 318 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: well like, I actually liked I actually really like rock oysters. 319 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,200 Speaker 1: So that was quite easy in Witstable in those days, 320 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: and you get you get free oysters for seventy five 321 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: or something. It was using and um, I used to 322 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: just try all different restaurants or different oysters, work out 323 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: what I like, what I don't like. And I think 324 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: my my biggest moment was I was on about a 325 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: hundred a week oysters, hundred oysters, and I used to 326 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: cycle everywhere, and I was so fit and I was 327 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 1: just lean on, sort of like a ballerine. I just 328 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 1: sind you muscle and just like oyster diet, I was 329 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: just like on fire. It was fantastic. Do you have 330 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: a house in the south of France? What is what 331 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,359 Speaker 1: is eating like there? Did you choose it? Also because 332 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: it was on the Mediterranean, I chose it by default, 333 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: but yes, it is on the Mediterranean and I'm on 334 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: the top of a hill, on top of a hill 335 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: looking at I have a sort of two hundred and 336 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: maybe two hundred and sixty degree of the sea. It's 337 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: just behind me that I can't see the sea, and 338 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: it is really beautiful, and it's in the middle of 339 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: the nature reserve. I don't have any neighbors, and it's 340 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: a sort of twenty five minute drive to the little 341 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: town to buy food and everything. So what I tend 342 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: to do is do one shop in the week and 343 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: that's it. And then I have my war cupboard. And 344 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: my favorite cooking is when I get down and I've 345 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: got a vegetable garden as well, really Britute vegetable garden, 346 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: and I get down to the real nitty gritty and 347 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 1: I have to be really inventive with what I cook. 348 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 1: I really love it and it's exciting and it's funny 349 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: with what I come up with everything. And and I 350 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: just cook for myself there as well, because there's no 351 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: there's no restaurants anywhere to eat near me, and I 352 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,400 Speaker 1: love to produce there. Do you go and you going 353 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: around vegetables. I don't know if you if you do 354 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: want to talk about this, but we've had quite a 355 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: tumultuous time. But probably nobody, certainly in this room, certainly 356 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 1: not mean more than you with your illness. And I 357 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: think your illness must have affected the way you eat 358 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,959 Speaker 1: because it was to do with your digestive system, isn't it? 359 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: And so did you did you have to start eating 360 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: when you were ill? Or because actually it's not my 361 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: digestive system, it's my bladder, okay, so different bag. And 362 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: and yes, it has affected the way that I eat 363 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 1: because I can't have I still can't couldn't have. I 364 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: can't have a full bow. I can't be because it 365 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: affects the stormer and everything. And my diets completely changed 366 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: since I was ill, which is quite strange. It's like totally, 367 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,239 Speaker 1: I mean totally changed. To tell me, what do you 368 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: I am vast amounts of fish, vast amounts of apples, 369 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: vast amounts of fruit all day long. I am a 370 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: lot of which is not supposed to be good for me. 371 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: By eat a lot of cold food, and I don't 372 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,919 Speaker 1: know why, much more than hot food. I am a 373 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 1: lot more lemon all the time because they alkaline. I 374 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: am my diet and it's not conscious thing either. It's 375 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: really subc I haven't even tried. I'm not even thinking 376 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,919 Speaker 1: about it. It's just what's happened. It's strange. So you 377 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: haven't been directed by doctors of what you can. I 378 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,880 Speaker 1: eat quite healthily, So they when you're when you're coming 379 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 1: out of hospitals that you see nutritions and they tell 380 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: you this, and they tell you that. But I'm kind 381 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: of quite forward thinking on good food. So when I 382 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,239 Speaker 1: eat something bad, it's because I really want to. And 383 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: when you there are so many reasons we eat, isn't 384 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:39,320 Speaker 1: There are reasons we eat because we're hungry, eat because 385 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 1: we're in a beautiful place and we want to celebrate, 386 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: or we eat because we are feeling a certain way. 387 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: We need comfort. If you needed food, if you needed 388 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: it for comfort, is there a food that you might 389 00:22:53,640 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: reach for and be totally apples? Apples, apples. I eat 390 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 1: probably about six to eight apples a day a day. Apples. 391 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: I couldn't live without apples. What kind I like? I've 392 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: forgotten what they called it. Those pink ones and they're 393 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: kind of sweet, pink lady. Yes, I absolutely love them. 394 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,199 Speaker 1: I washed them, put them on the bread board, and 395 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: I get the knife and I don't cut them equally. 396 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 1: I just slice all bits off until I get the course, 397 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 1: so it's all different shapes. And maybe I take three 398 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,439 Speaker 1: of them and I'm like a big pile on a 399 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,920 Speaker 1: very beautiful blue Delf plate. And then I sit anywhere 400 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: and just slowly eat three apples at a time that 401 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,960 Speaker 1: are all different bits, shapes and pieces, and it makes 402 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: me feel so good. That's what we want you to feel, Dracy, 403 00:23:50,520 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: we want you to feel good. Thank you, Frankie. To 404 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: visit the online shop of The River Cafe, go to 405 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 1: shop The River Cafe dot co dot uk. Ruthie's Table 406 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,520 Speaker 1: four is a production of I Heart Radio and Adam 407 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 1: I Studios. For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit 408 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 409 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.