1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,279 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. Today we 4 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: are going to talk about an event that became a 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: really huge symbol in the environmental movement, and it's often 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: credited with helping surpass the Clean Water Act and inspire 7 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: the creation of the Environmental Protection Agency. But a lot, 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 1: like a lot of the things that we talked about 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: on the show, the actual story is way more complicated 10 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: than that, and the whole thing is often portrayed in 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: a way that has a lot of inaccuracies. In nineteen 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: sixty nine, the Cuyahoga River in Cleveland, Ohio caught fire. 13 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: This was not for the first time, it was, in fact, 14 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: for the last time. But for the people who have 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: heard of this fire, the image that probably came to 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: your mind is not from this fire at all. It's 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: from a completely differ one. And as we mentioned before 18 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: the episode, the image that comes to mind for me 19 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,959 Speaker 1: is R. E. M. Saying about Kuyahoga. It has nothing 20 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: to you know, and no no historical significance other than 21 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: it was a great song. I don't even know it, 22 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 1: so maybe after we record, I will go look it up. 23 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: There you go. Cleveland, Ohio, sits on the shore of 24 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: Lake Erie, along a very twisty part of the Cuyahoga 25 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: River which empties into the lake. And there are a 26 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: couple of different theories about where the river's name comes from, 27 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: either a Mohawk word for crooked or a Seneca name 28 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: meaning place of the jaw bone, and sometimes these are 29 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: also conflated and described as being a Seneca word for crooked. Yeah, 30 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: I found out a lot of times before I found 31 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:51,639 Speaker 1: this thing that's spelled it out completely differently. Centuries before 32 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 1: the establishment of Cleveland, the Cuyahoga River Valley was home 33 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: to several indigenous cultures, beginning with prehistoric nomadic peoples who 34 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: came to the area roughly thirteen thousand years ago. Later, 35 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: the River Valley's prehistoric inhabitants also included people's from the 36 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: Mound building Hopewell culture, followed by what's known as the 37 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: Whittlesey people. What we know of these cultures comes from 38 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: the archaeological records, so we don't know their actual name. 39 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: Hopewell comes from Mordecai Hopewell, who owned the land that 40 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: was home to a series of their mounds. Whittlesey is 41 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: named for geologist and archaeologist Charles Whittlesey. Cleveland was established 42 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: on part of the Connecticut Western Reserve. This was land 43 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: in the Northwest Territory that was claimed by Connecticut. Although 44 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 1: the Seneca likely used parts of the Western Reserve as 45 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: a hunting ground, the area that became Cleveland doesn't appear 46 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: to have had a permanent population in the decades just 47 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: before its founding. That changed when Moses Cleveland surveyed and 48 00:02:55,560 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: mapped the Connecticut Land Company's Western Reserve holdings. Cleveland was 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: the first settlement that was established after this survey, which 50 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: was completed in seventeen ninety six. The population of the 51 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: newly established Cleveland grew very very slowly, although the immediate 52 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: area wasn't permanently inhabited, other parts of what would become 53 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: the state of Ohio were People were reluctant to move 54 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: to the area out of fear of attacks by the 55 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: indigenous population, and until the eighteen twenties, it was also 56 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: hard to get to thanks to a lack of roads 57 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: or other transportation options. Eventually, steamboats on Lake Erie roads railroads, 58 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: and the construction of the Ohio and Erie Canalway made 59 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: it more accessible. As Cleveland grew, it became an important 60 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 1: industrial center in the United States. Standard Oil Company, which 61 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: is still recognizable name, was established by John D. Rockefeller, 62 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: and it was founded there around eighteen seventy. Steel mills 63 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: became a huge part of Cleveland's economy and also one 64 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: of the major employers, with almost thirty percent of the 65 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: city's population working in the steel industry by eighteen eighty. 66 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: These industries and the city itself grew up in a 67 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: time when there wasn't a lot of regulation about how 68 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: to handle waste. Sewage emptied into the river, as did 69 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: industrial waste and runoff. The water became so dirty that 70 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: if you fell into it, you went to the hospital 71 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: when you got out again. This wasn't remotely unique to Cleveland, 72 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 1: and to a lot of people. A river that was 73 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: obviously visibly filthy was a necessary trade off for all 74 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: of the industry that was bringing money into the city. 75 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: Cleveland's population peaked in nineteen fifty at nearly a million people, 76 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: but then, as was the case for many other industrial 77 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: cities in the United States, the industrial sector started to decline. 78 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: Between nineteen fifty two and nineteen sixty nine, the city 79 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: lost sixty thousand manufacturing jobs, and that industrial decline brought 80 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 1: along with it a loss of jobs, an increase and 81 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: abandoned industrial property along the outer front, a higher crime rate, 82 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 1: and a range of other social and economic issues. As 83 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: the city center became increasingly run down, anyone who could 84 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: afford to move to the newer suburbs did, and that 85 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,600 Speaker 1: compounded all of these issues. Running alongside this was an 86 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: increase in racism and racial tensions in Cleveland. The city 87 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: had experienced the same demographic shifts as many other major 88 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: cities after the Civil War and the end of reconstruction. 89 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: African Americans had moved to Cleveland and other cities from 90 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: the Deep South, seeking work in factories and trying to 91 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: escape oppressive Jim Crow laws. But Cleveland's white citizens had 92 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 1: then started moving out of the neighborhoods that were becoming 93 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: home to black families, in a pattern that's commonly known 94 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:50,559 Speaker 1: as white flight. Since middle class white families were moving 95 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: out of neighborhoods as lower income black families moved in, 96 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 1: the tax base for these neighborhoods dropped dramatically, which led 97 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: to a corresponding decline and all of the systems and 98 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: services that are funded by taxes. And even though segregation 99 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 1: and discrimination weren't as legally codified in Ohio as they 100 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: were in much of the South, they still existed. Racism 101 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: and racial bias in policing and housing created a lot 102 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: of the same disparities in Cleveland as Jim Crow laws 103 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 1: did elsewhere. The Supreme Court would eventually rule that Cleveland 104 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 1: schools were segregated by race, even though that racial segregation 105 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: was not spelled out in law. All of this culminated 106 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: in the Huff riots of July. It's unclear exactly what 107 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: sparked that riot, but the most commonly cited account is 108 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: that white restaurant owners and the predominantly black neighborhood of 109 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 1: Huff refused to give a black customer a glass of water, 110 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: and then they hung a sign in the window that 111 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: read no water for n words. A crowd of mostly 112 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: black protesters gathered outside the restaurant, and after police arrived 113 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: to try to disperse the crowd, the situation and escalated 114 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: from an angry mob throwing rocks to a six day 115 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: riot that involved looting, arson in the deployment of the 116 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: Ohio National Guard. Four people were actually killed in this riot, 117 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: and all of them were black. This incident is often 118 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: cited as contributing to the election of Carl Stokes as 119 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: Cleveland's mayor in nineteen sixty seven. It was his second 120 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: attempt at running for mayor, having lost in nineteen sixty five. 121 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: He was the first black mayor of a major US city, 122 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: and a number of historians suggests that his election was 123 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: in part out of a desire for stability and unity 124 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: in a city that was really struggling. Stokes platform during 125 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: the election focused on jobs, housing and attempts to revitalize 126 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: the city. But because this fire that we're going to 127 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,119 Speaker 1: talk about happens during his time in office, he wound 128 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: up becoming a really prominent figure in a completely different movement. 129 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that more after a sponsor break. 130 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: On June at twenty second, nineteen sixty nine, sparks from 131 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: a train passing over one of the trestles that crossed 132 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: the Kuyahoga River ignited oil that had collected on its surface, 133 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: and the resulting fire was pretty visually dramatic. It reached 134 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: about five stories tall. Firefighters extinguished the blaze within twenty 135 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: or thirty minutes, but not before it damaged two rail trestles, 136 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: one belonging to Norfolk and Western Railroad and the other 137 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: to Newburg and South Shore. Estimates on how much the 138 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: damage cost to repair them varies from between fifty thousand 139 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: and a hundred thousand dollars, depending on who you ask. 140 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: The city of Cleveland was not particularly traumatized by the 141 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: burning river. It was not the first time that it 142 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: had caught fire. The Kuyahoga had burned at least thirteen 143 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: times over the previous hundred years. The most recent fire 144 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: before the one in nineteen sixty nine had occurred in 145 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two, and it had been far more destructive, 146 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: leading to about one point three million dollars in damages, 147 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: including the dry docks of the Great Lakes Towing Company 148 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: and multiple tugboats. It had nearly reached the standard oil refinery, 149 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:14,199 Speaker 1: which could have been utterly catastrophic. The river's deadliest fire, 150 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: which caused five deaths, had happened in nineteen twelve. To 151 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: be clear here, the Cuyahoga River is by far not 152 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: the only river in the world to have ever caught fire, 153 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,599 Speaker 1: just as examples other Great Lakes tributaries did during the 154 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: nineteenth and early twentieth centuries as well, including the Chicago 155 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: and Buffalo rivers, and this also still happens. As just 156 00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: one other example, India's bell Under Lake has caught fire 157 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: more than once this year, which is seen, and of 158 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: course there are also lots of other pollutants that can 159 00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: be in the water and be dangerous in ways that 160 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: don't involve setting on fire. By nineteen sixty nine, the 161 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: city of Cleveland simultaneously shrugged off river fires and viewed 162 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: them as a threat. When river caught fire, it wasn't 163 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: met with a lot of public fanfare or panic, but 164 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: there was an increasing awareness of the need to clean 165 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: up the river. That need, though, was driven by the 166 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 1: risk of fire damage, not really a desire to clean 167 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: the river for its own sake. Air pollution, which could 168 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: easily spread to the more distant suburbs, got a lot 169 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:22,679 Speaker 1: more attention in terms of general pollution. Cleanup the flammable 170 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: river was also a problem that Cleveland was actively working on. 171 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: Cleveland's voters had approved a one hundred million dollar bond 172 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: initiative in nineteen sixty eight such just the year before, 173 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: and that was aimed at cleaning up one of the 174 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: big sources of pollution, which was untreated human waste. This 175 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: situation was particularly bad when heavy rains would cause the 176 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,960 Speaker 1: sewer system to overflow, and the bond initiative was meant 177 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,040 Speaker 1: to upgrade existing facilities, add new sewer lines, and build 178 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: a new sewage treatment plant. Ben Stefanski, who was Cleveland's 179 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: Director of Public Utilities, was the driving force behind the 180 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: spot and a big advocate for getting the public support, 181 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: both for the initiative itself and for the taxes that 182 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 1: would be necessary to fund it. In the days immediately 183 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: after the fire, local news coverage and local discussion of 184 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: what had happened was mostly focused on the damage and 185 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 1: who should pay to repair it. Because firefighters extinguished the 186 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 1: blaze so quickly, photographers didn't get to the scene in 187 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: time to get a picture of the fire in progress. 188 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: When the Cleveland Press and the Cleveland Plane Dealer went 189 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: to press the next day, they did so with photos 190 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 1: of the damaged railroad trestles, not of the fire itself, 191 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: and the press ran photos without a story, while the 192 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,959 Speaker 1: Plane Dealer published a brief story as well, but all 193 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: the way back on page eleven c SO to Cleveland 194 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty nine, the river catching fire was not 195 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: anywhere near front page news. The much worse two fire 196 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: that we mentioned a little while ago, on the other hand, 197 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,760 Speaker 1: had been the political back and forth that followed, which 198 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: was also reported in the local media, focused mostly on 199 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: the damage and the lame. Stefanski placed the blame on 200 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: the state, saying that it was issuing industrial permits that 201 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: allowed the dumping of industrial waste into the river. Then 202 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 1: the state countered that it was the city's failing sewer system, 203 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: the one that had been targeted to be upgraded with 204 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: this bond initiative, that needed to take the blame for 205 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: a lot of the oil in the water. The city 206 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: then excused the state of failing to match the bond 207 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: funds with funds of its own to help with this project. 208 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: After a while, the local media got tired of reporting 209 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: on all of this back and forth. An editorial that 210 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,080 Speaker 1: ran in The Plain Dealer about two weeks after the 211 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: fire read quote bickering between Cleveland and the state over 212 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: who bears responsibility for the condition of the Cuyahoga, a 213 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: stream so polluted it catches fire From time to Time, 214 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: will not improve the quality of the filthy stream. All 215 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: of this discussion was really pretty local. There was little 216 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: to nothing in the national media until Time magazine published 217 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: a story on river pollution in August of nineteen sixty nine. 218 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: This story largely focused on the Kuyahoga River and it 219 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: reference to the June nine fire, but because there were 220 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,559 Speaker 1: no pictures of that fire, Time used a picture from 221 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: the much more serious nineteen fifty two fire. This is 222 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: actually the picture of the fire that is on our 223 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: website for this episode. And although there are online versions 224 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: of the article that exists today with the photo clearly 225 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: captioned as being from a different fire, the one that 226 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: actually ran in Time in nineteen sixty nine just said 227 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: quote boat caught in flaming kaya Hooga. Suddenly, Cleveland and 228 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: the Cuyahoga River were in the national spotlight as evidence 229 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: of the dire state of the nation's polluted waterways, not 230 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: just in Ohio, but elsewhere too. More national coverage followed. 231 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy, National Geographics cover announced Our Ecological Crisis 232 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:55,800 Speaker 1: as a title, with pictures of the kaya Hooga, not 233 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: at that time on fire, being part of a fold 234 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: out that accompanied the store. The river at that point 235 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: was still visibly incredibly filthy, and all the retrospectives that 236 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: are written today usually note correctly that the nineteen sixty 237 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: nine fire was the last and not the first, and 238 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: they don't usually use an out of contact context picture 239 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: with no explanation that it's really from an earlier fire. 240 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies and even nineteen eighties, a lot 241 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: of the articles that evoked this fire were just sloppy. 242 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: They got key dates wrong. They described the fire as 243 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: something that stretched over miles of river when it was 244 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: really pretty contained. There were lots of other embellished details, 245 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: and they made it sound like the nineteen sixty nine 246 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: fire was both unique and a massive disaster rather than 247 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: something that was appalling. I mean, the river should not 248 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 1: catch fire, but it was also contained, quickly extinguished, and 249 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: was something that happened, as the newspaper said from time 250 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: to time. With all of this inflated coverage, the nineteen 251 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: sixty nine fire took on a almost mythical aspect. People 252 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: started remembering and we're using the air quotes. They're seeing 253 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: the fire on TV, even though no television footage existed. 254 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: Do you recall we mentioned that reporters got there too 255 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: late to even get photographs. Randy Newman wrote the song 256 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: burn On about the fire in nineteen seventy two, and 257 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: in the liner notes to a later album said he 258 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: had seen this non existent TV broadcast in part because 259 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: he was the first black mayor of a major US city. 260 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: Carl Stokes became a very visible presence in all of 261 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: this coverage, and eventually this blossoming national focus circled back 262 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: around locally, with Cleveland Areas school children writing hundreds of 263 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: letters to him asking him to clean up the city's pollution, 264 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: including the quality of the air and the health of 265 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: Lake Erie. Most of the letters were from suburban kids 266 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: who didn't live near the river, and few of them 267 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:58,280 Speaker 1: actually mentioned the river, but they advocated in general for 268 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: a cleaner Cleveland and a cleaner planet. More about how 269 00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 1: that idea spread from elementary school children onward is going 270 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: to happen after we first pause and have a little 271 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: sponsor break. Until nineteen sixty nine, none of the Kuyahoga's 272 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: many fires had gotten much national attention. The Time magazine 273 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 1: article and that photograph that was very dramatic are certainly 274 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: part of why it's suddenly got so much more pressed. 275 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: But apart from that, the nineteen Sine fire happened at 276 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,680 Speaker 1: a time of both growing environmental awareness and increasing social 277 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 1: activism overall. Rachel Carson's Silent Spring, which outlined the dangers 278 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: of the pesticide DT, had come out in nineteen sixty two, 279 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: and while still somewhat controversial, the book became a hugely 280 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: influential bestseller and it was a lot of people's first 281 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: introduction to the idea of environmentalisms. And that was just 282 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: a few years before. For this river fire, we have, 283 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: I feel compelled to mention, gotten a lot of requests 284 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: to cover Rachel Carson and Silent Spring. We have done. Uh, 285 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: but we have done. I mean that by saying we 286 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: got a lot of request not that we have written 287 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 1: an edit on her at this time. Yeah yeah, yeah, 288 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: yeah yeah. But just for those of you who might 289 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: hear that and say, hey, that would be a great episode, 290 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 1: we know we've gotten that. That requestment definitely covered on 291 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,400 Speaker 1: the list. Uh. By nineteen seventy, the federal government had 292 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: heard about the Kuyahoga fire as well. Louis Stokes, brother 293 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 1: of Mayor Carl Stokes and a member of the U. S. 294 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: House of Representatives spoke before the House in late nineteen 295 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: seventy advocating adding language to a flood control bill that 296 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: would allow the U. S. Army Corps of Engineers to 297 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 1: study water quality in the kuya Hooga River. He described 298 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,439 Speaker 1: the fact that it had even caught fire as shameful. 299 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: He also made it seemed like the Kyahoga was the 300 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: only flammable river. Yad, I don't think it's definitely not 301 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: the only flammable river, but I think it was more 302 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: of an oversight than a like a deliberate effort to 303 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: make it focus only on Cleveland. But after this point, 304 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: both Stokes Brothers and the fire itself became a huge, 305 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: visible part of a campaign for federal regulations of both 306 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,440 Speaker 1: the environment and water quality. Outside the halls of government, 307 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: the environmental movement was also continuing to grow. The First 308 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: Earth Day was observed on April twenty second, nineteen seventy 309 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: and as part of that First Earth Day, which had 310 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: UH celebrations, slash protests, slash observances all around the country, 311 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: college students at Cleveland State University marched from campus to 312 00:18:38,240 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: the Cuyahoga River. The National Environmental Protection Act and e 313 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: p A was signed into law on January one of 314 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,360 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. This was one of the nation's first general 315 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: laws to protect the environment. President Richard Nixon also announced 316 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: his intention to establish an Environmental Protection Agency in the 317 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: spring of nineteen seventy. The Agency it's self was established 318 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: on December two of that year, and the Clean Water 319 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: Act followed in nineteen seventy two. President Nixon actually vetoed 320 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: the Clean Water Act because of the cost involved, but 321 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: Congress overrode his veto. This was not the nation's first 322 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: law specifically related to water pollution. That, at least in 323 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: the most concrete terms, would be the Federal Water Pollution 324 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 1: Control Act of ninety eight. The Clean Water Act was 325 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: essentially a series of amendments to that ninety eight law, 326 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: among other things, that established a structure for regulating the 327 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: discharging of pollutants into the water. It funded the building 328 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: of a new of new suits treatment plants in places 329 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 1: that needed them, and it authorized the Environmental Protection Agency 330 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: to implement programs for pollution control. Of course, that's not 331 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: the end of the story. There have continued to be 332 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 1: new laws and rules about pollution and water since then, 333 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: with a continuing focus on weighing the cleanliness and safety 334 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,919 Speaker 1: of waterways with the impact to businesses to maintain it. 335 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: This include it's the Heavily Contested Waters of the United 336 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 1: States Rule, also known as the Clean Water Rule, which 337 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: is currently undergoing a review process through the e p A, 338 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: the Army, and the Army Corps of Engineers. In spite 339 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: of the various agencies and regulations, polluted waterways and municipal 340 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: water systems also continue to make headlines, including the Flint, 341 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,880 Speaker 1: Michigan water crisis, in which the city has not had 342 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,200 Speaker 1: clean water since a number of sources like to sort 343 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: of well, actually, the Cuyahoga River fire of nineteen sixty 344 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 1: nine it's impact on environmental protection laws. They note that 345 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: cities and states have begun had begun doing their own 346 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: work on cleaning up rivers, lakes, and streams before the 347 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,960 Speaker 1: federal government ever got involved. The industrial decline in Cleveland 348 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: also meant there were a lot fewer factories discharging waste 349 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: into the river, which meant that the river was cleaner 350 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: than it had been in decades prior. And while all 351 00:20:56,600 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 1: of this is technically true, the Kuyahoga River was still 352 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 1: really really dirty in nineteen sixty nine, as were many 353 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: other rivers that had been adjacent to a similar cycle 354 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: of industrial rise and fall. It's also difficult for any 355 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: one state or municipality to tackle the problem of water 356 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: pollution on their own, since most bodies of water crossed 357 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: through multiple jurisdictions. As it became a symbol for catastrophe 358 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: and a need for environmental stewardship, the city of Cleveland 359 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: also became a national target of embarrassment. Articles in the 360 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: wake of the fire described it as a crumbling relic 361 00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: of a fading industrial era, with white flight leaving the 362 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 1: city's downtown as a derelict shell. And while some of 363 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,119 Speaker 1: the criticism was warranted, we talked about a lot of 364 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: these issues in the first act of the show, a 365 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: lot of the coverage really became unnecessarily mean spirited, with 366 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: Cleveland being nicknamed the Mistake on the Lake. Even after 367 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: years of environmental cleanup and a downtown renewal that started 368 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: in the nineteen eight east, Cleveland's reputation as a collapsing 369 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 1: miss persisted. There is even a joke in the two 370 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,879 Speaker 1: thousand three series finale of Buffy the Vampires Layer that 371 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: Cleveland is on a hell mouth I think a lot 372 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 1: of people who grew up after this era, like after 373 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: the Nixon presidency and the creation of the E p 374 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: A and all that stuff, you don't remember this specific 375 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: story about Cleveland still grew up with the idea that 376 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: Cleveland was some sort of rundown laughing stock without really 377 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 1: knowing why. Yeah, and this is a lot of why. 378 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: And of course, obviously industry was not the only thing 379 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 1: that there was going on in Cleveland before any of 380 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 1: this happened. It's just the thing that's most relevant to 381 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 1: what we were talking about today and today, the Cuyahoga 382 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: River Fire of nineteen sixty nine has been somewhat reclaimed 383 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: by the city of Cleveland with a pinch of self 384 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: deprecating humor. Great Lakes Brewing Company opened in the Ohio 385 00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 1: City neighborhood of Cleveland, not far from the river and 386 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,880 Speaker 1: n and they brew a Burning River pale ale which 387 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: launched in and has labeling that gives a nod both 388 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: to the infamous river fire and the Clean Water Act 389 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: that followed it. Uh and Great Lakes Brewing Company also 390 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,159 Speaker 1: hosts Burning Riverfest, which is a festival to support the 391 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: environmental organization Burning River Foundation. I think a lot of 392 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: the rest of the world is gradually catching up to 393 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: the idea that that Cleveland has renewed a lot of 394 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,760 Speaker 1: itself since nineteen six when the river caught on fire, 395 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: at least I hope uh. Featured on The Drew Carey 396 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: Show with much positive um framing well too too. Dear 397 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: dear friends of mine who grew up both in Ohio 398 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: and then lived in Atlanta for many years, which is 399 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: where I knew them, have just moved back to Cleveland, 400 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: and they certainly would not have moved to a place 401 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: that was terrible. So I definitely hope that. I mean, 402 00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:09,360 Speaker 1: every place has legitimate criticisms, but I don't think Cleveland 403 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: deserves to be the laughing stock that it was for 404 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: so many decades. Yeah. I have a good friend that 405 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: that moved there uh uh several years ago. That's more 406 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: than several who had never been there and was kind 407 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 1: of like dreading it because still that shadow of of 408 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,040 Speaker 1: stuff that we grew up with that it was not 409 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 1: a great place. And she had this like, this is 410 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: actually a wonderful place to live. So reports only good things. Yeah, 411 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: speaking of cities that became laughing stocks, I have listener 412 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: mail that's about the Scopes trial. This is from K 413 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 1: and this is a correction and also fascinating because it 414 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: is an error that is literally everywhere cases. Dear Tracy 415 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 1: and Holly. I've listened to your podcast for several years 416 00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,879 Speaker 1: and always enjoy it, but the recent podcast on this 417 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,120 Speaker 1: Scopes trial was particularly interesting to me. One small correction 418 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: to begin the Druggist slash school board chair was Frank 419 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: eat Robinson, not Fred Robinson. Edward Lawson made that mistake 420 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: in his Pulitzer Prize winning books Summer of the Gods, 421 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: and it has been reproduced often. I'm gonna take a 422 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 1: pause from the letter to say here to say I 423 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 1: would almost call it it has been reproduced everywhere, Like 424 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: I think every source that I used UH had the 425 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: wrong name. And then as I was, um, you know, 426 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,439 Speaker 1: we we we love our listeners, but also need to 427 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,159 Speaker 1: fact check things because sometimes we do get corrections that 428 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: are not correct. Um. And when I was fact checking 429 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: this correction, UM, I found all of these notes in 430 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: the Smithsonian Archives. That was like the Smithsonian Archive correcting 431 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: incorrect photo captions that had the wrong name. So this 432 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: error is ubiquitous. UH, And K specifies, I'm not going 433 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: to go into exact detail because privacy, but she specifies 434 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: that the reason that she knows this is because he's 435 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: family member, and then I'll get back to the letter. 436 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: In addition to selling the school books in question, serving 437 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: as a school board chair, helping come up with the 438 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: plan for the trial, et cetera, he also testified his wife, 439 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: Clark Haggard Robinson, was a stringer for the Chattanooga Times, 440 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: and her brother Wallace, was one of the prosecution attorneys. 441 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,960 Speaker 1: The family home, built about nineteen ten by Mr. Robinson's 442 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: father in law, was diagonally across the street from the courthouse, 443 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: and Clark was happy to entertain many of the attorney's 444 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: reporters and other visitors to Dayton at her table, including 445 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 1: both both Darrow and Brian. The one exception was H. L. Mencken, 446 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: who was, as he noted, famously uncomplimentary of the South 447 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: in general and Dayton in particular. She refused to have 448 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: him in her house. M Southern hospitality goes a long way, 449 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: but not that far. You also talked about the chimpanzee 450 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: Joe Mindy, who was part of the circus atmosphere surrounding 451 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,160 Speaker 1: the trial. If you search for pictures of the chimp, 452 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: you will probably come across this one has a link. 453 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: I don't know the identity of the woman in the photographs, 454 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: but the man is Fred Robinson, and the children are 455 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: his daughter Francis and his brother Wallace, and some of 456 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: the pictures Wallace has cut off. Francis always said that 457 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: as soon as Joe Mindy had his coke and left 458 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: the drug store, she made sure that her father broke 459 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: the glass and threw it away so no one would 460 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: drink out of it. Uh. That cracks me up, because 461 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 1: I know I have drunk after my cats previous areas. 462 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for the podcast. You did an excellent job of 463 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,879 Speaker 1: telling the real story of the trial and it was 464 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: great fun for my husband and me to listen to. 465 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: And then she has a few concluding notes and says 466 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: signs off as Kay, thank you so much. Kay. As 467 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: I alluded to when I took a break for reading 468 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: the letter, I did not know that that ubiquitous error 469 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: is all over the place everywhere. Um. It reminds me 470 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: of when we did that episode on the eradication of 471 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 1: of smallpox and how we said that it was the 472 00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: only disease that mankind has ever intentionally uh eradicated and 473 00:28:26,560 --> 00:28:28,479 Speaker 1: the a lot of people, not a lot, but some 474 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: people wrote in to be like, actually render pest um 475 00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:35,160 Speaker 1: and I was like, not only did I not know that, 476 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: but there are a whole lot of sources about this 477 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: that are wrong. So thank you so much for that 478 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: A fascinating account. Hey, if you would like to write 479 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 1: to us about this or any other podcast or history 480 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: podcasts at how Stuffworks dot com or also on Facebook 481 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: at Facebook dot com slash miss in history and on 482 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,360 Speaker 1: Twitter at miss in History, have Tumbler and a Pinterest 483 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: and Instagram, which are all also missed in History. 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