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Speaker 1: Visit truth finder dot com slash Nancy, enter your own name.

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Speaker 1: Get started Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on sirius x

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Speaker 1: M Triumph Channel one thirty two. Hello everybody, we are

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Speaker 1: live here at Crime con in Nashville, Tennessee, where we

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Speaker 1: are all assembled three thousands strong in our pursuit to

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Speaker 1: stop crime. Right now, we go to Delphi, Delphi now

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Speaker 1: known because of the deaths of two little girls, a

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Speaker 1: tiny town and know more than three thousand people still

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Speaker 1: in shock after Liberty and Abigail are found dead. It's

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Speaker 1: been well over a year and still even though the

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Speaker 1: little girl's killer is caught on camera when the girls

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Speaker 1: snapped his picture on that trestle bridge, we have his voice,

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Speaker 1: we possibly have his DNA, but still no arrest. Why

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Speaker 1: struggling to understand, struggling to make sense of it all

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Speaker 1: Our Liberty and Abby's families who are with us now

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Speaker 1: here at Crime con answering your questions and listening to

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Speaker 1: your tips, clues and interpretation of the facts. This is

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Speaker 1: crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I want

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Speaker 1: to go straight to our guests with me, our Liberty's grandparents,

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Speaker 1: Mike and Becky Patty, and Abby's mother, Anna Williams. Anna,

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Speaker 1: So did she go? Did you take her to the

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Speaker 1: park to meet up? Yeah? I picked limb up and

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Speaker 1: we'd taken it. What time of the day was it

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Speaker 1: the day before? Oh? It was. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: like the weather out here. It was not the nicest day.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of wendy and overcast. It was probably

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Speaker 1: about one thirty or two o'closs, still daylight. Then what happened? Um? So,

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Speaker 1: I we'd gone to the house and gathered up her

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Speaker 1: things and I dropped them off um, and she spent

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Speaker 1: the night and Um, I worked two japs at that time.

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Speaker 1: So I was finishing up my shift at the some

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Speaker 1: home and she had texts me and said, is it

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Speaker 1: okay if I stay for dinner? And this is like

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Speaker 1: at twelve thirty, and I said, let's was at your house?

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Speaker 1: She was at their house and I said, well that's fine,

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Speaker 1: but I have to be at my other job at four.

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Speaker 1: So if you can't stay until eight and somebody can't,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna be one of those deals. Either

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Speaker 1: you stay until I can get off of work, or

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Speaker 1: if you know, Kelsey's come back to town or they're

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Speaker 1: you know, want to get rid of you, they'll have

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Speaker 1: to drop you off of the house because I can't

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Speaker 1: get you. And she said it's fine. So I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: I will see you after. Oh I know that when

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Speaker 1: the parent can't come and go, oh, I'll take I'll

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Speaker 1: trap a mom. I'm happy to okay, I'll take a phone. So,

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Speaker 1: so you're at work. Did you go pick him up? No? Okay,

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Speaker 1: they were, she was still at the house. I was.

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Speaker 1: I was at my uh bart stop. So now I've

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Speaker 1: got them at your place, right, Okay, we're both of

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Speaker 1: you there, guys, I'm now speaking. That was Abby's mom

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Speaker 1: and and now I'm speaking to Matt, Mike and Becky.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Tell me that day from the time they

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Speaker 1: got there for dinner. Oll, they went upstairs. Of course,

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Speaker 1: Abbey come bringing in a big old tote of paint. Paint. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were gonna paint. Ah. Of course, the Libby's room

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Speaker 1: when nearly as organized as Abbey's her stuffs there everywhere

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Speaker 1: still is. Um he walked through and you find some

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Speaker 1: paint here, and you find some paint there, and all

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Speaker 1: of our other stuff. But uh, so they went upstairs

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Speaker 1: and they've of course, you know how kids do, they

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Speaker 1: take lots of selfies and videos, and so we know

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Speaker 1: what they were doing that night because Libby did some

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Speaker 1: videos and of Abbey there painting, and and we there

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Speaker 1: is there is a canvas there of where they started

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Speaker 1: a new painting, said chocolate. Imagine that I was right.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. There was something wrong with one of

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Speaker 1: the letters that was. So they you, um, they were

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Speaker 1: up in the room doing their their thing, and they

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Speaker 1: of course they're up half the night girls stuff, girls

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Speaker 1: talking and whatever, and um, they slept and they and

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Speaker 1: then the next morning was Monday, and we had a

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Speaker 1: snow makeup day where the weather was so good that okay,

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Speaker 1: I see that means something to me, that a snow

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Speaker 1: makeup day. So okay, what was there? What did they do?

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Speaker 1: The next morning? They slept in, They slept in and

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Speaker 1: they got up, but I don't know its ten o'clock

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Speaker 1: and uh, they have pancakes for breakfast brunch and uh.

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Speaker 1: And they came out and said, we want something to do. Well,

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Speaker 1: my my office is at home. And I said, dreaded words,

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Speaker 1: what can we do? And that was Libby all time.

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Speaker 1: If she if she had to set still for five minutes,

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Speaker 1: it's we're gonna do something this weekend? Are we gonna?

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Speaker 1: You know what we're doing? What's plans? So we were

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Speaker 1: quite busy with her. Um, and I said, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I got files that need to be filed. You want

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Speaker 1: to make some money? Bet they were. They were out

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Speaker 1: there working away, and especially if he said, I'll take

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Speaker 1: your shop, and you know you do this for me,

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Speaker 1: I'll take your shopping. So they were out there and um,

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Speaker 1: they and Kelsey, Libby's sister, come out and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop by a friend's house for a little

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Speaker 1: bit and then I have to be at work for Libby.

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Speaker 1: That's all it took. She jumped up and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: because it was a beautiful day, it was action drop

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Speaker 1: us off. Hey we she and I said, well, what

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Speaker 1: about this filing. We'll do it later. I promise we'll

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Speaker 1: do it later. And uh so, I said, well that's fine.

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Speaker 1: You um she said, can Kelsey drop us off with

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Speaker 1: the trails? And I said, well, okay, but I'm busy.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna have to get a ride home. No, what

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Speaker 1: are the trails we have around our town. We have

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Speaker 1: a trail. It's a it's a community trail system that

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Speaker 1: there's what eight or nine miles worth of trails that

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Speaker 1: just goes clear around our town, all the way around.

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Speaker 1: And they had just opened up this section of the

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Speaker 1: trails not too long a couple of years because they

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Speaker 1: put a new road in and they put a historic bridge.

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Speaker 1: Had no reason to think, oh, there were there was

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Speaker 1: people out there that morning and that day like jogging

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Speaker 1: and all that. There's there's some that jog, but there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of kids out. That's the trails is

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Speaker 1: what our kids do. There's not a lot to do

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Speaker 1: in Delphi. So you know, you go walk and bike

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Speaker 1: the trails and and out there that bridge. What people

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Speaker 1: don't realize, so many families have had their pictures taken

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Speaker 1: out there. You know, it looks like a place you

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Speaker 1: could see, uh, like a wedding photo done on the bridge,

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Speaker 1: you know how you do those scenic photos. It's not

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Speaker 1: just in the church anymore. And it's very pritty, and

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Speaker 1: it looks out over a river. It's a creek. But so, um,

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Speaker 1: my son was out running some errands and so she

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Speaker 1: Livy's dad and she called him and said, hey, if

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Speaker 1: Kelsey takes us to the trails, will you pick us up.

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Speaker 1: He says, well, I'll be another hour, so I'll pick

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Speaker 1: you up on my way back through. So so one hour.

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Speaker 1: So it was it wasn't gonna be that long. We

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Speaker 1: knew it wasn't gonna be that long. And it was nice.

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Speaker 1: It was nice and right, they're going to be well,

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Speaker 1: not for sure, he said, about an hour or so.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not so Kelsey took them and dropped

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Speaker 1: them off, just getting me so upset because um and

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Speaker 1: I've even done it. Okay, okay, they'll be okay for

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes. It's just thirty minutes. I'll run to Kroeber

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Speaker 1: and I'll come back thirty minutes and then I'm not

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Speaker 1: up the whole time. So an hour and a half

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Speaker 1: that was it. So they go, we dropped. It's your

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Speaker 1: last memory of her? She was standing at the door

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Speaker 1: of the office with this smile that she has, and

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Speaker 1: I said, it could be a little chilly out there.

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Speaker 1: You get a jacket. She sitting grandma. I said, I

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Speaker 1: told you, get a jacket. She just looked at me

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Speaker 1: and smiled and said, I'll be okay. It's okay, granmall

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Speaker 1: and she turned and walked out. My last memories of

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Speaker 1: her standing at my office door telling me it's okay.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna get a gold. So that's that's my

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Speaker 1: last memory. What is your last memory? Dropping her off

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Speaker 1: at their house with her with their paints. And it

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Speaker 1: wasn't until later on when we when we got to

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's department and actually, um, I saw the snapchat picture.

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Speaker 1: But that's the last picture I have. That is the

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Speaker 1: last visual I have with my little girl. It's on

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Speaker 1: that bridge, you know. I think about that so often.

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Speaker 1: I think about Abby and Liberty when I dropped the

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Speaker 1: children at school, and I watched him walk in. Because

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Speaker 1: of Karen Horman, a little boy in the Pacific Northwest,

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Speaker 1: this step mother dropped him off. I'll watch him walk

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Speaker 1: in almost to the door, and I remember, think about

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Speaker 1: it every morning. And you know, Renee Rockwell, defense lawyer,

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Speaker 1: You've told me a hundred times about the last time.

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Speaker 1: Remember you saw your ex and he had put the

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Speaker 1: laundry in and it all turned pink? Remember, and he

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Speaker 1: do you remember that? Yes? I still have the pink towels.

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Speaker 1: And so when people are confused about the last time

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Speaker 1: they see someone or the last thing, that I know

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Speaker 1: right then, because I remember the last time I saw

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Speaker 1: my fiancee. He come to Macon. He was living in Athens, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: and spent the weekend with me and my family. And

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Speaker 1: we got like five o'clock that morning and he left

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Speaker 1: to get to work, and he drove off in a

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Speaker 1: white Lamons and he to the horn and held his

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Speaker 1: hand up and I watched him go out of sight.

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Speaker 1: And that's the last time I ever saw him. And

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Speaker 1: I have thought about it and dreamed about it so

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Speaker 1: many times. When was the next time, What was the

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Speaker 1: next thing you hurt. Tell me from your point of view, Well, um, again,

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Speaker 1: these times are going to be close because we've been

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Speaker 1: we've been scrutinized on many times. I mean, it's all approximations.

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Speaker 1: Again that they were probably dropped off around one thirty

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Speaker 1: time frame. Derek called him about a quarter after three

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Speaker 1: that Derek is the dad who's going to pick him up.

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Speaker 1: So about a quarter after three he calls him no

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Speaker 1: answer to tell him, Hey, I'm I'm just about there.

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Speaker 1: Come pick me up, you know, or come to the car,

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Speaker 1: and continues to call actually he's there. He gets, yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: pulling up. But this is what we call trailhead, you know,

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Speaker 1: a little little area to part um. So he said

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Speaker 1: he got out and was walking, you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: text him. In about three thirty or so, like called

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Speaker 1: Becky and said, hey, I can't get ahold of Libal

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Speaker 1: should not answer and give her a call, and so

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Speaker 1: she tried calling, and then the our our daughter Tara

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Speaker 1: tried calling. So everybody's texting and calling and she's not

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Speaker 1: returning and that's way out of character. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: kids have their phone and that is there. That's it.

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Speaker 1: And uh so Becky called me probably about a quarter

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Speaker 1: till four. So I wasn't at working off yet and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: Libby's not answering something wrong. We're heading out there. It's

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Speaker 1: just not doesn't seem right. I said, okay, said I'll

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Speaker 1: head that way, just thinking, okay, where the you know,

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Speaker 1: first thing goes. They hooked up with some boys. They're

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Speaker 1: out doing they they're not answering their phone because I

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Speaker 1: don't want to get caught. And then so by four

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Speaker 1: o'clock most of the family is there. We're trying to

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to get ahold of her. She's at work.

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Speaker 1: I show up there probably about four thirty. Time I

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Speaker 1: get out of work. The trail had the trail head,

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Speaker 1: and of course I jump out and I'm starting to look.

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Speaker 1: She leaves at that time to go find Anna. I'm like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we need you know everybody. Let me ask you all

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Speaker 1: a question. How many times have you been looking at

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Speaker 1: a store or you're somewhere and you try you don't

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Speaker 1: see your child? Happened me once and I'll never forget it,

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Speaker 1: And it was you've heard me tell the stories that

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Speaker 1: the baby's or us and some mother had guilted me

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Speaker 1: out because she made her own organic sunscreen. I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'm there trying to find organic sunscreen because I

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Speaker 1: was visualizing like a witch over apop me trying to

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Speaker 1: cook some up. And uh so I bent down and

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Speaker 1: they had the like it lows or something. They have

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Speaker 1: the shelves all the way up. So I'm down on

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Speaker 1: the floor looking at the bottom trying to find organic sunscreen.

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Speaker 1: And I stand up and they're only renee what were

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Speaker 1: they like three? And they were wearing those little crops

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Speaker 1: which are silent. And I turned around. There's Lucy and

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Speaker 1: no John David and I had practiced all kind of

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Speaker 1: emergency procedures. I grabbed Lucy like a football and started screaming,

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Speaker 1: screaming lot the doors and this that moment you turn

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Speaker 1: around and they're not there. I'm getting chills. They're remembering it.

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Speaker 1: When did it hit you? Something is wrong? I think

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Speaker 1: we all realized once you wouldn't answer her phone after

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Speaker 1: the third or fourth call from everybody in the text.

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Speaker 1: When I got there at again after four, UM like, okay,

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Speaker 1: maybe they've dropped their phone, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: Because there's water, they're a creek, and um, did they

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Speaker 1: both have a phone no, Aby did not. Abby did

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Speaker 1: not have mine don't have a phone yet either, So

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Speaker 1: Liberty had the phone. And you see, that's what people do,

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Speaker 1: That's what I do. I think of every possible thing

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Speaker 1: that could happen. Maybe they dropped it in the water. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, so we fig're okay, they're that or they're lost,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They just wandered off the

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Speaker 1: trail system. Cell phone service is not great out through there,

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Speaker 1: I mean patchy at best. You get certain marryas and

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Speaker 1: all that. And if they were wandered around off the trail,

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Speaker 1: so you're all three there at this point, I did

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Speaker 1: not know I actually met them. They She finally got

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Speaker 1: ahold of me. We missed each other's phone call, isn't

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Speaker 1: it because I didn't even have her that name in

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Speaker 1: this new phone that I had. And I was like, finally,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what's up? She said, we're headed

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Speaker 1: the Sheriff's apartment. The girls want to walk this and

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Speaker 1: I was like, all right, all right, let me when

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Speaker 1: we close out a couple of things, I'll be there

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Speaker 1: just a few minutes, and hollered one of the girls

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Speaker 1: in the back that time. Did you really think anything

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Speaker 1: was wrong. No, because unfortunately they those girls had had

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Speaker 1: been in the school pool watching Kelsey practice and they

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Speaker 1: didn't have cell phone service, and it was I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: stay with Liberty until the game, and then she was

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Speaker 1: supposed to meet me for some Abby was supposed to

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Speaker 1: meet me for some money, and she hadn't And um,

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Speaker 1: I mean, so it happened before that you couldn't reach well,

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Speaker 1: not so much, they were right there at the school,

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Speaker 1: they just didn't have service. But I mean I thought, okay,

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Speaker 1: plans of change. And then I'd gotten a message from

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Speaker 1: Liberally saying Dabby is with me, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is probably another one of those things. Yes, it's

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Speaker 1: been a few hours, but I'm sure there's a say.

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Speaker 1: I'm just the exact opposite thirty minutes, smilies, I'm calling

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Speaker 1: nine one one because until they were thirteen and four exactly.

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Speaker 1: Mine is still just ten. So they haven't they don't

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Speaker 1: know what all they can get away with yet. When

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Speaker 1: did you realize something was not right at all? Well,

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00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:11,880
Speaker 1: our whole family was out there looking. We all left Tara,

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Speaker 1: my daughter went straight over there. Derek was there. Um,

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Speaker 1: my son come pulling in from my other son, come

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Speaker 1: pulling in as I was leaving, and he said, what

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Speaker 1: are you doing. I said, We're gonna go look for

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Speaker 1: the girls. So he jumped in the car with me.

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Speaker 1: We drove if if they would have decided to walk home,

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Speaker 1: we drove both directions that they would have gone both routes.

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Speaker 1: We got there. We had six cars there. We were

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Speaker 1: taking over everything. Um. We we split up. We walked

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Speaker 1: all the trails. Um. Cody and Kelsey went across the bridge.

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Speaker 1: They went. They went across and and up to the

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Speaker 1: road and up to the houses up there were the

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Speaker 1: sheriffs there yet not yet by this time it was

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Speaker 1: a little after five. Was it getting dark? Not yet?

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Speaker 1: It wasn't, but I knew it was going And I

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00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 1: was on the phone most of the time with a

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Speaker 1: T and T trying to get them to ping her phone.

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Speaker 1: And they won't, they won't do it. I was just

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Speaker 1: gonna ask, will they do that, Vincent. I don't think

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00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,080
Speaker 1: they'll just do it when you ask. No. Not right

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00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,120
Speaker 1: off of that, No, I was arguing. I kept telling

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Speaker 1: that she's lost her and I know, well we can't.

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Speaker 1: Well they said, well you can get this one app great, Well,

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Speaker 1: well paying your phone, Well, you gotta put it on

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Speaker 1: her phone. I don't have her phone, So you know,

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Speaker 1: it was and that funny with the things that stick

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Speaker 1: in your mind about what was happening at that time.

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Speaker 1: So you're there, you think at this point everything is

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Speaker 1: probably just confusion. You guys are there trying to on foot,

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Speaker 1: trying to find them. When did you calling the cops?

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Speaker 1: It was about it. It was about twenty after five.

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Speaker 1: He come walking up on the trails and I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm not getting anywhere here. It's gonna get dark. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna get dark here pretty about my six or so.

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Speaker 1: I said, we've got to call the police. We've got

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Speaker 1: to get them looking for them before dark. We did, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, Vincent, at that point, what should police do first? Well, Nancy,

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00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,960
Speaker 1: they probably should have come out with an amber alert

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Speaker 1: at that point. I mean, it had been several hours.

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Speaker 1: Don't you have to have a car tag to do

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00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,200
Speaker 1: an amber alert? Yeah you do, But there's that's really

329
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 1: helping me. But are you in a perfect world for

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Speaker 1: several hours right by this point? They really I mean

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Speaker 1: they called again a quarter after three is when we

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Speaker 1: were going to pick them up. And at five twenty

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Speaker 1: I made the call the police. It wasn't several hours.

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00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,200
Speaker 1: It was a couple of hours. The police immediately came

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00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,359
Speaker 1: out there and dispatched, and we're on the scene, you know,

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00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,600
Speaker 1: we're on the in the area walking. I guess the

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00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:34,320
Speaker 1: only thing they could have done was bring dogs at

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Speaker 1: that time, because they didn't have a car to do

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00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,600
Speaker 1: an amber alert in most places don't have like a

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Speaker 1: missing kittler. I don't think in the problem with the

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00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 1: dogs at that point, did they really have a missing

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00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 1: person When police first show up, they don't consider that

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00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: a missing person without the investigation first, you know, And

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00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,479
Speaker 1: I get it. I am part of the justice system,

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Speaker 1: but I have a problem with that when time is critical.

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Speaker 1: So let me ask you this. Y'all stay out there

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Speaker 1: to what time that trying to find him? Oh? It was.

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Speaker 1: It was really a very hectic night. Obviously after calling

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Speaker 1: the police, then we rallied back at the police at

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Speaker 1: at the county police station. Oh man, how bad did

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00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 1: you hate to leave that part? Oh? I was there

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Speaker 1: several times throughout the night back and we were running

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Speaker 1: around town, driving around the town. Um, you know that

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Speaker 1: the police were trying to you know, look at they

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00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,639
Speaker 1: were trying to paining her phone, and I think they

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Speaker 1: did end up getting some pain. I really saidn't know that. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how accurate it was. It was earlier

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Speaker 1: during the day, like Anna said, we have some sketchy

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Speaker 1: phone service. You know, you can drive a half a

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Speaker 1: mile in from another tower and then if the falls off.

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00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:44,080
Speaker 1: But no, we we spent There was a coordinated search

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00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:46,399
Speaker 1: that started. I mean people started coming out and grows.

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00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,199
Speaker 1: It was like volunteers all over the town. It was.

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00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 1: It was crazy that the our local fire department, they

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00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,040
Speaker 1: were coordinating things, putting search parties together. People were you

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00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: could drive. We were driving everywhere. I'm checking every place

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00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 1: you think, okay, any of the parks that are there,

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00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,280
Speaker 1: you know, up at the school, driving back out there

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00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,880
Speaker 1: to that area. Uh, yelling, hollering you drive through town.

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00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: Later started getting dark, of course, and flashlights, so is

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00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 1: the light is a dark start of setting in? What

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00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: went through your mind? If anything, it's late and it's cold.

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00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 1: I mean you even maybe not so much here, but

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00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: in Indiana it'll go from an eighty degree day down

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00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: to thirty five degrees at night. And only one of

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00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,880
Speaker 1: the girls and a sweatshirt on. I don't know why

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00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: Abby put one on as opposed to living there was

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00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: she listened to you, which you said, y'all need a jacket.

379
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,199
Speaker 1: That was the whole thing is they're not wearing clothes.

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00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:46,360
Speaker 1: If if they're outside, its hypothermia serious issue. Not yet

381
00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 1: unless they've been in the water. Did you know about

382
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:58,480
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383
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:02,320
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384
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385
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:10,240
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386
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,879
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401
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,080
Speaker 1: dot com slash nancy enter your own name yet started.

402
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:18,640
Speaker 1: When did they call you? And what? You know? How

403
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:21,439
Speaker 1: did you find out that they had found the girls?

404
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,600
Speaker 1: You were out searching. They had put they had gritted

405
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 1: out a lot of the areas that that night. No,

406
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,080
Speaker 1: it was the next day. It was the next day. Um,

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00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 1: the police called off the search about midnight. You had

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00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: well that yeah, like she said that, the police, uh,

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00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,239
Speaker 1: just for safety, said, I mean, we were searching all

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Speaker 1: over the whole area, literally probably hundreds of people at

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00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,040
Speaker 1: this time, we're out searching. I went back to, of

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00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 1: course we've been out searching. We all were. And I

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00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: went back to the fire station with with the volunteers

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00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: that were there, and uh, it was probably around at

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00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 1: eleven o'clock, twelve o'clock, and they kind of called off

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Speaker 1: the fresh one. I don't know exactly what times, so

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00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: don't hold me to that, but they called off the

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00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: officials search and let let's resume in the morning. But

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00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: the volunteers said, no, and and and and they all

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00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 1: rally and said, all right, let's go back out there.

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00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: We're gonna light up these creek banks. We're gonna walk

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Speaker 1: this creek. And I mean, but was there enough water

423
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:27,760
Speaker 1: for them to have drowned in it? There's spots and

424
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: deer creek. I mean, it's not a real Dame Creek.

425
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,240
Speaker 1: I used to fish it when I was a kid.

426
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: But um, so you guys were still out there through

427
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,879
Speaker 1: the night. When did they tell you they had found

428
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: the girls? Well, that wasn't until the next day. So

429
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: I'm just want people realized there was people searching all

430
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: night long. I don't think I went home until three

431
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 1: or four o'clock in the morning. But there's people said, Mike,

432
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna stay out here all night. We'll see you

433
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: in the morning. But for a validation point. One of

434
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: the reasons why they said, as we are bringing in

435
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 1: dogs for Kentucky. So the fewer people that we have

436
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 1: out on that specific area. So the next day there

437
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: was a restricted to the last path. Because of that.

438
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,120
Speaker 1: We had been both sent to our homes to get

439
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: clothes at the girls had warned the biggest thing was,

440
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: let's not confuse these animals anymore by all of these

441
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: people criss crossing. It's just the thing. So there was

442
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: some reasoning that was good for the fact that the

443
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: dogs were coming in and the and that is a protocol.

444
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,120
Speaker 1: So what time did they let you know the next

445
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 1: day they had found the girls? I think we we

446
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,119
Speaker 1: were where we all were at various points. I had

447
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: actually gotten in a canoe and floated down the creek

448
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: for probably half a mile. I'd just gotten out gotten

449
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: back to the fire station, um Becky was. They were

450
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 1: doing a very coordinated search, and that's how they worked

451
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: at the starting the next morning where hundreds and hundreds

452
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 1: of people were showing up, and they would send out

453
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 1: groups with some sort of lawfish or whether it was

454
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: you know, somebody from the fire station, because you're you

455
00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: can't dis trespass on people's property, you know, if you

456
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: do it a it correct. Yeah, I remember that there

457
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: was a search. Weren't executed on the person's home and

458
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: property right now or where the girls were found. Everybody

459
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: immediately thought, wow, that must be the person of the purp,

460
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: but not necessarily that's just where where were you when

461
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: you learned that I was searching? They? We were all indifferent.

462
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,159
Speaker 1: We were all split up because all he was in

463
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 1: a canoe, I was I was in a group. I

464
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: was in a group that wasn't even close at the time.

465
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: But a friend of ours was with one of the

466
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: groups that found them, and he and his wife was

467
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,199
Speaker 1: with us, and he called her. Um, they told me

468
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: that they found him, but that's all they would tell

469
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: me at that time. Did you ask any questions? Did

470
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: you think I jumped in a car? And did you

471
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: think they were alive? They wouldn't. Did you ask them?

472
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: I I I went tell him. I just told asked

473
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: them take me to him. I said, they found him.

474
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even ask him if they were how they

475
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: found him. I just said, let me, let me needs me.

476
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: You need to take me to her. Now. UM. The

477
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: thing of it is, we had found out before. Some

478
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: of the officials that were at the trailhead. They kept saying, no,

479
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 1: they had no they had nice. Yeah, they found him,

480
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: they found him. So UM. They didn't officially call us

481
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: in until later, but we knew. We knew before. UM

482
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:35,120
Speaker 1: we were officially told. You knew what that they had

483
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: been killed, we had friends, and that we're in the

484
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: search party that found them. So they called you and

485
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: said we found him. The wife called you and said

486
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: she didn't call me, she called somebody. The husband was

487
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 1: with one of the groups. The wife was in my group,

488
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: and he called her. But they wouldn't tell me any

489
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 1: All they would tell me was they found her. They

490
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,920
Speaker 1: found him. So you race, you all converge and what happens.

491
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 1: I was actually already at the fire department. I had

492
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: my dad was coming back from Michigan. I don't I

493
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: don't know why I waited. I don't know that I

494
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: waited so long ato call. But much like the day

495
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: that I had to call him to tell him I

496
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: was expecting Abby and I was not married. I'm sitting

497
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: there and my best friend she's like, you really need

498
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: to call your dad and let him know he's no

499
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 1: more and gotten home from this weekend with Abby. He's

500
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 1: back in Michigan. It is four in the morning, he's

501
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,400
Speaker 1: getting up for work. She's like, just just call him,

502
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: and he and I remember the first that Yeah, the

503
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: first thing he said was why didn't you call me

504
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: sooner said, because I thought we'd find him or later.

505
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: So I'm waiting at the fire department for him to

506
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: get there and he had gotten there just an hour prior,

507
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: so he's asking questions. He's telling him where they stayed

508
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: for the weekend, who they talked to, all those things.

509
00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 1: And I was on the phone with somebody from uh

510
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: from out of town that I lived there, and he

511
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: knew that are He said, how, hi's the water right now?

512
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, well, not that bad. And I

513
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 1: turned around and there was a quad that had pulled

514
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: up and I was like, hey, how has the water

515
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: and the scale screamed at and she's like, not right now.

516
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 1: And I'm like, all right, okay, never mind. And all

517
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: of a sudden, the pastor comes walking towards me and

518
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: he starts talking. I'm like, hey, hey, I gotta go,

519
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: and he said okay, and I hung up the phone

520
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 1: and he said, does anybody talked to you in the

521
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,679
Speaker 1: last few minutes and or come up to you? And

522
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 1: I said no. He says, we need to go upstairs. Okay.

523
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: I didn't heft to have to hear anything past that.

524
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,439
Speaker 1: I knew if there was something good, I wouldn't have

525
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: heard it quite that way. We know. At that juncture,

526
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: a photo emerged of a white male walking across the

527
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: bridge at Delphi and I remember thanking, where did this

528
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: photo come from? How do we have the photo? There's

529
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:55,239
Speaker 1: no security surveillance video of photos on the bridge, and

530
00:28:55,280 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: I thought, is this from the girls bound? The girls

531
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: were found, they'd be killed not far from the bridge,

532
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 1: just what a thousand feet down like you would go

533
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: over the bridge and then you're on land and then

534
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: go down to where the water was. And that it

535
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: was amazing to me that they were not found sooner,

536
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: Not that it would have made difference, but there may

537
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: have been more for insic clues if they had been

538
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: found sooner. I don't know for sure that that's true,

539
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: but that is where they were found. And then a

540
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: search of the girl of the one phone revealed that

541
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: she had the wherewithal she got this guy's voice telling

542
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: them to go down essentially, and I keep wondering what

543
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: did he have that made the girls obey him? Did

544
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: he have a gun? Did he have a knife? Uh?

545
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: Why didn't they run? Maybe their conditioned, like my children,

546
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: to do what adult to tell them to do. I

547
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: don't know why they went down there, but that is

548
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: where they were fine found and that is where the

549
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: investigation begins. And this is the stuffer they've got the

550
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: guy's photo, they've got his voice, they can time exactly

551
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: when this happened, but still no perpetrator. Let me just

552
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 1: ask generally, is there any of the perpetrators d NA

553
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 1: at all? In any way? We've never been officially told

554
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: er until much like Jerry Holman said yesterday, they have

555
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: never specified one way or the other. They came uh

556
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: to our homes, took all of our DNA, as they

557
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 1: should so, because they said, we need to know who

558
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: belongs in the house. Foods got it? Who has stuff

559
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: on them that belongs there? You wash your clothes in

560
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 1: the same washroom dryer, you sit on the same couches,

561
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 1: you have people come over. They I mean, they didn't

562
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:58,959
Speaker 1: ask first there any unknown male DNA the one way,

563
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 1: or the scant cells, be it saliva, be its sperm,

564
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: be it anything. Do you know if there's any male

565
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: DNA there? I think that's something that's the investigators know,

566
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's that's information that's pertinent

567
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: into the case. And I hate to use this term,

568
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: but but to protect the integrity of the investigation, that

569
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: doesn't need to get out. And the reason that's asking

570
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: is because of Golden State Killer, which was a major advancement.

571
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: And I've been wondering about that in the past. But

572
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: you all know the Golden State Killer, who we know

573
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: murdered at least twelve, raped many more, one home burglaries,

574
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: at least fifty rape victims at least DNA was found

575
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 1: and finally they thought ding ding, and they plugged it

576
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: into for instance, ancestry dot com and it got familial

577
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 1: DNA matches to another male relative. They go to him,

578
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: they rule him out. Then they figure out as St.

579
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 1: Angelo and they get the Golden State Killer. It's him. Okay,

580
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: he's matched up to DNA. So that's when I'm wondering

581
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: and hoping, and I'm also hoping Joseph's got more than

582
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: you're the forensics expert, that they will also be using

583
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: the that in other words, the most modern DNA technology

584
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: where there's touch DNA that you leave behind actual skin cells.

585
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: Believe it or not, touch DNA can now beat Okay,

586
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 1: so jose got what what? Now We've got his picture,

587
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: we've got his voice, we've got the time he was there.

588
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 1: I would think if it was a local inhabitant, a resident,

589
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: somebody would have ideed him by now he's not a

590
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: disguise cho. He has some facial hair and a hat.

591
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: But we can figure out how tall he is, how

592
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 1: much he weighs. Remember in mid Lothian, you can, for instance,

593
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 1: Alan standing there. If I'm the FBI, I'm a cot,

594
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: I can measure to the top of that cross in

595
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: the door and I can say that's how tall Alan

596
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: Duki is. I can look look at him photographically and

597
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: determine how much he weighs based on that, So we

598
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 1: know how tall he is. We know he's a white male,

599
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: his hair color, how much he weighs, what his voice is,

600
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,040
Speaker 1: where he was, but we don't have him, Joe Scott.

601
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: The most important thing that we want to consider here,

602
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: and I think that it always goes back to this,

603
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: is the idea of timeline. The timeline is very very

604
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 1: critical in this case. You know when UH, when I

605
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: first came in contact with this case, I think that

606
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: I was on the air within two days, and when

607
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: I heard about the nature of it, I was shocked.

608
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 1: I was absolutely shocked because I knew that as a

609
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: result of this UH of what they were saying, I

610
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: was like, this is gonna be a home run. They're

611
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: gonna catch this guy immediately because it's contained. You guys

612
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: had this grid search that was going on. A lot

613
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: of this information was coming out in regards to this,

614
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: and so as time went by, when things didn't gel

615
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: like I thought that they would at that moment time,

616
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: I was kind of surprised because the bodies were contained

617
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: in this specific area that were found immediately adjacent to

618
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,719
Speaker 1: the bridge. It's a small community, it's a rural community.

619
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: I think that now moving forward, um, the police and

620
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: police are give me I'm gonna be blunt at the

621
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,280
Speaker 1: police have used the words heinous a couple of times,

622
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: and that tells me that there is contact going on,

623
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: and I think that that goes without saying I think

624
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: to what point there is contact, physical contact, and what

625
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: the nature of injuries are. One of the things I

626
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: would very be very curious about is this was the

627
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 1: corner present at the scene. I'm not talking about autopsies.

628
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: I want to know was the corner present at the scene,

629
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: what type of examination was done at the scene, because

630
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: for me, one of the things I want to know

631
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 1: is I want to understand what's called post mortem interval.

632
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: How long had these two girls been deceased, and that

633
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:02,719
Speaker 1: had to be at that moment in time. I spent

634
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: the reason I'm kind of having attachment to this, I

635
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: spent several years in Indiana training corners. I taught at

636
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: their State Corners Academy, and I know that these people

637
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 1: are trained very well, considering the limitations they have in

638
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: rural areas. I would want to know what kind of

639
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: attention was paid at the scene to some of the

640
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: steps that we take in the examination of remains at

641
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: the scene, How was it documented, how were they able

642
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: to process this? I'm not talking about the cops. And

643
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: then I know that the girls remains were taken to

644
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: Terror Hope, which is what it's almost what an hour

645
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,720
Speaker 1: and forty five minutes from y'all's location, where the further

646
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: examination was conducted at that point in time. I want

647
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: to know what how much attention to detail did they

648
00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 1: pay at that at that moment in time. Uh and

649
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 1: the measurements, particularly things like and again forgive me, but

650
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: things like body temperature. We have the picture of the

651
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: perpetrator and by now nobody in the area can identify

652
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: this person. Do you believe and I wanted to ask

653
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: this question, do you believe that anyone is covering up

654
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: for someone in Locally, it would be assumed that somebody

655
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: knows who this is and for whatever reason, they haven't

656
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: come forward yet. A mother, a sister, a family member.

657
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: Maybe they haven't though maybe they really just don't know.

658
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: But you get that feeling that somebody you don't have

659
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: reason to think someone's covering up for the part, but

660
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: that they really don't know. And I'm asking you ideal

661
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,719
Speaker 1: with faction data. That's kind of guy. I'm an engineer,

662
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: and I mean, could he be? Yeah, we can talk

663
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: theories and any people in Delhi three thousand, Okay, so

664
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,319
Speaker 1: is he there? Could be? I don't see how I

665
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: really did not find it in a town of three

666
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 1: thousand that nobody knows this man. Well, that's just it.

667
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: We aren't a big I mean there's probably ten thousand

668
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: people in our whole county maybe town. In no way.

669
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: I mean, this is very accurate in detail. I know

670
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 1: I had to jump in. So one of the other

671
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 1: things to keep in mind, or what amazing girls you raised.

672
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: One of them took the picture as that that person

673
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 1: walking and Nancy. The point I would make with that

674
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 1: is trust your gut. I have no doubt she never

675
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: would have taken a picture of him approaching if they

676
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: knew him, Why would they take a picture of a clandestine,

677
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, person walking towards them. So I, in my mind,

678
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: this is someone they did not know from the community.

679
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,759
Speaker 1: Is brilliant, you know what. It leads me to think

680
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: that he had done something other than I passed all

681
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: of you guys in the hall. I didn't say, oh,

682
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: take a picture. They he had to do something agree

683
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,720
Speaker 1: to make them go, oh, we're gonna take his pictures.

684
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: Let's see who has an idea that can help us. Yes,

685
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: they breathe put it in a nutshell. Hi, thank you.

686
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 1: I'd like to know if they've given you any profile

687
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: of this killer, and if they have, what would be

688
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: the profile. I haven't received a profile other than like

689
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: the estimated weight, height, size, um. As far as an

690
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: actual person itself. Uh no, I think there's what the

691
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: investigators leading on the fact that we do have some

692
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,800
Speaker 1: good heart evidence. We like you said, we got a picture,

693
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 1: we got a sketch, you know, we got a voice.

694
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: I still say, somebody out there knows, and that person

695
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,880
Speaker 1: may not know about this case. I mean they know

696
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: the guy. This guy lives beside somebody, somebody's friends, somebody's coworker.

697
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: We just need to reach that person and through you know,

698
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: through something like this, people helped spread it out. Eventually

699
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: we'll get to that right person who has the wherewithal

700
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: to make that call. I have the police looked at

701
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: their internet, their iPads, their cell phones, everything. One of

702
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,840
Speaker 1: the first things they did was gather all of our stuff,

703
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: our phones, the tablets, the passwords. We actually had to

704
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 1: go and file for estates on the girls to get

705
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 1: Apple and Google to release those things. That was one

706
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: of the first things they saw in including with the

707
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 1: snapchat photo that Libby took a b abbey. There is

708
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 1: no evidence whatsoever that they were intending on meeting anybody

709
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: that day that as far as we know, they have

710
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: not found anything. And that's so they said, we weren't.

711
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: They weren't planning on many anybody. They didn't even really

712
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: tell anybody they were going. So this wasn't a I

713
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: know the girls are gonna be out there and we're

714
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: coming out to investigate, and it would be one of

715
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 1: the first avenues. John David asked all the time, can

716
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 1: he have like group chats? I'm like, unless it's somebody

717
00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: at school that you know no, because you're probably talking

718
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: to some sixty five year old guy in New Jersey

719
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: and his underwear and you don't want that, and he's

720
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 1: pretending he's eight, okay, and he's playing Minecraft or whatever

721
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: with you. Everybody, we are here at crime con and

722
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: we have with us the family of Liberty and Abby

723
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: who lost their lives at the bridge in Delphi. We

724
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 1: have a live studio audience and we are looking for

725
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: clues if there is DNA, for example, if there was

726
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: some kind of encounter. If there's DNA under the fingernails,

727
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: it tells me that maybe this might be a person

728
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 1: that's never been in trouble. I find that very hard

729
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: to believe with his age. I don't just jump up

730
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: at age forty something and kill two little girls. But

731
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: Nancy with no d N A, I mean it has

732
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: I guess you on the DNA because I don't know

733
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 1: that there's DNA and they don't know because nobody's saying

734
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 1: so I can't follow that it's natural route. But so

735
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: I'm backing up. Remember when we tried cases without d NA, Think, think, think,

736
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 1: and this is how we did it. So do you

737
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: guys know if they have gone to a drifter didn't

738
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: just walk there from forty five miles away. Other places

739
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,560
Speaker 1: have surveillance video, not that bridge. But do we know

740
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: if that has been gathered from as she said, gas station's,

741
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,520
Speaker 1: truck stops, restaurants. Yes, it has been. It has been.

742
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: But it's a great idea, you're right. I mean that's

743
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: what we're here for. You know, if there's something that

744
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 1: we haven't done, we definitely want to know about it.

745
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 1: And Nancy, can I just say think about this. It

746
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that he hasn't done something in the past.

747
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: He has. Likely he's a predator. What it means is

748
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: he's never been caught. So people need to look at

749
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:05,879
Speaker 1: is this somebody, Oh we have a relative, they'd never

750
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 1: do that. Every criminal out there. I think he's thinking

751
00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 1: they did it. I'm telling you right, he has something

752
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: he hasn't arrest somewhere. Yeah. One of the things I

753
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 1: was warning, do they have any evidence of primitive camping

754
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: around there at all? I mean, do people commonly primitive camp?

755
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 1: There is there evidence in there that you know, you've

756
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: got you've got people that primitive camp in that particular area,

757
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: and they would go unnoticed. Uh, you know, so is

758
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: there evidence of any campground at all, primitive camping where

759
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: there's just random fires that have been set and that

760
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: sort of thing. Um, not that I came across. I

761
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: actually did a grid search out there shortly after this

762
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: all happened. I couldn't just sit idle Um cleared up

763
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: with the FBI and the police and said, hey, I

764
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 1: got some buddies and got about a dozen of us

765
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 1: and kind of gritted the whole area out and did

766
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: a search looking for stuff because you know what, I'm thinking,

767
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 1: he's eating things like beanie wheenies or whatever it is

768
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: that he's eating. May be a tarp maybe. Uh. You

769
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: know how when you can drive by the bridge and

770
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: you see blankets, it may be something that rudimentary. Um,

771
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering if another search of the area for

772
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 1: that very thing, because it took a while to find them,

773
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,879
Speaker 1: How do I know that there's not something out there

774
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: like a tarp, like a sleeping bag, like a blanket,

775
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: like anything. Uh, A can that might have a fingerprint

776
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: on it. Where he was? Do you look at his clothes?

777
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 1: Did he just show up that day or had he

778
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,279
Speaker 1: been there? He's got on several layers, right, yeah, absolutely,

779
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: that's what hides a lot of his features as well.

780
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: But you know, did you did you arrive on a

781
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: motorcycle uncannily warm, overly dressed? In my opinion, these are

782
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: questions that we have that we don't have as the motorcycle.

783
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: Is there an area like a surveillance area, like a

784
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:55,120
Speaker 1: truck stop or something like that that we can look for, Oh,

785
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: we don't have. We're not big enough our truck stop.

786
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 1: We have what we call gas station. You know. I'm

787
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 1: also wondering about his clothing, like, for instance, specifically that

788
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: hat in the jacket, what kind it is, where it

789
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: could be purchased. I mean, you can identify a trash

790
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: bag from the lot, the manufacturer, the store, where where

791
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 1: it was purchased. What about that? That's gonna meet some

792
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: serious FBI work on that. Absolutely. And that's that's the

793
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,400
Speaker 1: the picture that was taken from the video off of

794
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 1: Libby's phone. It's we tried to clear it up, and

795
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: I've been told that they've sent it to several different places,

796
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,319
Speaker 1: you know, NASA, Disney, all kinds of places, But it

797
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: comes down to pixelation, and there's only you know, you

798
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 1: can only polish it so much. Now you don't want

799
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: to change or altar that because that begins to mess

800
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,880
Speaker 1: with the integrity again the information for the investigation. You

801
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: can't go in there and change it around saying Okay,

802
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: I bet he noses this big, I bet his lips

803
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: are that big. Well, then you're making it look like

804
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: somebody defense attorney's gonna come in and that of the

805
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: clothing and go take it to a location. And if

806
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: he is on a motorcycle or has a car, for instance,

807
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: that makes him more substantial. That means he's got an

808
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 1: apartment or a home as a whole different line of investigation,

809
00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:14,440
Speaker 1: as opposed to a drifter that might have been eating

810
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: out of a canatuna pop talk somewhere in those woods,

811
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 1: which is a whole another line of investigation. To research

812
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: the area, I mean, I don't mean research look it

813
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: up the line, I mean walk it. No, I understand, yeah,

814
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 1: and that trust me, that area has been walked very well.

815
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: I spent two weeks out there doing it myself, as

816
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: well as a bunch of other people. And also that

817
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,520
Speaker 1: most of this is all private property. It's very very

818
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: reviewed by these people. You don't go on there, you'll

819
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: get arrested. But what were they looking for when you

820
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: were searching any anything and everything out of the ordinary

821
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 1: was the direction that I give him. I said, anything

822
00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: that looks out of place, if it's not a stick

823
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: or twig or something suggestion, And we did. I'm not

824
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: saying there's not something there. I mean, I'm not perfect,

825
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: but I did a pretty thorough search. Thank you for

826
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: being here. My name is Lynn King. I'm a private

827
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: investigator out of Atlanta, what we also called Nancy Grace

828
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: land Um. Anyway, but now I just wanted to say that,

829
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,440
Speaker 1: you know, obviously, you know I've heard lots of coverage

830
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: on this. Just you know, I think you've kind of

831
00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 1: already answered my question. I wanted to find out where

832
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: was the nearest like truck stop because I just don't

833
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: I just don't feel like this was a drifter. I

834
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,319
Speaker 1: don't feel like it's somebody that was camped out there.

835
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,239
Speaker 1: This I just felt like he was a crime of opportunity.

836
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:32,439
Speaker 1: But I feel like he was prepared to do a crime.

837
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,919
Speaker 1: And look at his physique. He had not missed a meal.

838
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,240
Speaker 1: This is not some homeless person that doesn't have anything

839
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 1: to eat, that's shuffling for just money for food, this

840
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 1: guy is eating on a regular basis. So to answer

841
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: your question, about fifteen mile away to the north is

842
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 1: the nearest truck stop. Obviously we have gas station somewhere. Yeah.

843
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: I don't get the feeling he's local, but I feel

844
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 1: like he was prepared that day to carry out a crime.

845
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: I feel like he's already been in that area, so

846
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,239
Speaker 1: he already knew how remote it was. And also just

847
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: you know, when it comes to cases like the way,

848
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: that's another thought. Listen, when you have predators walking along

849
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 1: a track, they're not there to exercise. She's right, he

850
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: was there. It was either a crime of opportunity where

851
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: he wanted to rob somebody of get money and he

852
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: saw the girls and his motive changed. But he was

853
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: there to do a felony, which also narrows down who

854
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: we're looking for. We're looking for a guy that I

855
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 1: think has a record. It could be for something petty

856
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 1: like um peeping tom or snatching, grab breaking in a car, something.

857
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: Because he didn't start at age forty plus. This is

858
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 1: not a homeless guy because he's well fed, his clothes

859
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: are decent, so and he's there to commit a felony

860
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: and he's not local. That's a lot of information. Has

861
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: anybody looked through the school district. I'm a teacher. If

862
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,359
Speaker 1: this is an opportunity and he's been there to walk

863
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: the trails before, maybe he knew that the kids were

864
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: out of school that day. I'm not saying that he

865
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: watched your daughters one granddaughter. What I'm saying is, have

866
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: you checked through the school website where there are multiple

867
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 1: hits to look at your school calendar to see if

868
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 1: this guy knew that the school was going to be

869
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: out that day. That's good, that's a good point. I'll

870
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: take that one. There were people that looked that assumed

871
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: that well it had to been public knowledge that the

872
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: kids didn't have school that day. Well, yeah, if you

873
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: lived in the school district. But I don't go into

874
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: the Tennessee website and say, oh, well look at the

875
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: what school isn't going to be in school in session

876
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: in spring break? But I know you wouldn't but a

877
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: predator either. You're you are correct, guys. I know this

878
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: is totally politically incorrect. But before we close our podcast,

879
00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,879
Speaker 1: our serious radio show, m I want you to join

880
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: me and pray for an answer for them. Father, help

881
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 1: these families seek justice and lead us to help them

882
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: in any way we can amen with me right now,

883
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: the families of Abbey Williams and Libby Liberty German, help

884
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: us find them, help us find their killers. It's so

885
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 1: hard for me to even say their killers. When I

886
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: look at their pictures and I'll look at you, they

887
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: see so alive, and when you talk about their art

888
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: supplies and the time you saw them. The tip line

889
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 1: is eight four four four or five nine, five, seven,

890
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: eight six. The website is Abbey A B. B Y

891
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: and Libby l I B b Y dot org Abbey

892
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: and Libby dot org. There is a two hundred and

893
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 1: forty thousand dollar reward. These girls were brutally murdered and

894
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: their killer is walking free, and we will not forget

895
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,879
Speaker 1: and we will not rest until he has been brought

896
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: to justice. Tip line eight four four four, five, nine,

897
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: five seven eight six eight four four four, five, nine, five,

898
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: seven eight six. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, good

899
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: Bye fight