1
00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:07,400
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Danny cancel At and welcome to stuff.

2
00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,399
Speaker 1: I've never told your production of I Hire Radios how

3
00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:22,599
Speaker 1: stuff works. Today we are bringing to you are part

4
00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 1: two for our episode on bisexuality and for the trigger

5
00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,640
Speaker 1: warning of the episode, UM, sexual assault, soicidality, mental health

6
00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,960
Speaker 1: issues and domestic violence. Also, we strongly encourage you to

7
00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,200
Speaker 1: listen to part one before listening to this one because

8
00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 1: Part one gives a lot of baseline definitions and introduction

9
00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 1: to our interviewees. Yes, they they introduced themselves far better

10
00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: and in that episode, UM yeah, just a lot of

11
00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,560
Speaker 1: terms will be using. We're explained in that episode. UM.

12
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,560
Speaker 1: And we also went into the negative impact of birature

13
00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,479
Speaker 1: and by negativity and that and before we get into um,

14
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,440
Speaker 1: all of our our guests interviews, we did want to

15
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,120
Speaker 1: touch on the media for a second. When it comes

16
00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 1: to bisexuality. There are several famous examples of celebrities, um

17
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,840
Speaker 1: who are bisexual, Angelina Jolie and a Paquin, Kara de

18
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,240
Speaker 1: Levine and Cumming, Abby Jacobson, Aus Walker and Kinda Billy

19
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,840
Speaker 1: Joe Arst, Billy Joe Arstrong, My my boy, my Homeboy

20
00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,000
Speaker 1: had a huge cracks on him for years Oh my gosh,

21
00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:35,000
Speaker 1: Evan Rachel Wood, Drew Barrymore, Gina Rodriguez, Lady Gaga Rex

22
00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:40,400
Speaker 1: and Gay, Tessa Thompson, lots more. There are some famous

23
00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,839
Speaker 1: fictional examples, and right now the big one is Rosa

24
00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,920
Speaker 1: Diaz on Brooklyn nine nine, Kellie Torres on Gray's Anatomy.

25
00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 1: There's Cat on Madame Secretary, Petro Solano on Jane the Virgin,

26
00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: David Rose on Ship's Creek, Grace Troy on Black Lightning,

27
00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 1: Nova Board a Lawn on Queen Sugar, Daryl White Feather

28
00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,200
Speaker 1: on Crazy Ex Girlfriend who announced his bisexuality VI a

29
00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,960
Speaker 1: Song or Yes, of course, Um, Sarah Lance and Constantine

30
00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,960
Speaker 1: on Legends of Tomorrow, Nomi and Dave On on Grown Ish.

31
00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:15,320
Speaker 1: I will say I haven't seen all of these. I

32
00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,480
Speaker 1: cannot say I was gonna say I think I've seen

33
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 1: like two or three of all of these. Yes, I

34
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,000
Speaker 1: cannot say they're good representations. UM. And I know that

35
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,359
Speaker 1: Constantine in particular, I can't say for sure if it's

36
00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 1: ever been like said definitively. UM, But those are examples

37
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:37,280
Speaker 1: I found people gave online. UM. One thing worth noting

38
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,000
Speaker 1: is there's far less men than women. Um. You could

39
00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,600
Speaker 1: just help out the list. Yes, yes, and that is

40
00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,639
Speaker 1: something that um was commented on a lot when I

41
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:49,480
Speaker 1: was looking into this. Looking into news outlets, the mainstream

42
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:54,000
Speaker 1: ones rarely right about bisexuality. For instance, in seen, the

43
00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 1: New York Times tweeted bisexual seven times and gay over

44
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 1: one hundred. The Wall Street journe All has tweeted it

45
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 1: twice and does not appear to have any stories with

46
00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:07,480
Speaker 1: by our bisexual in the headline. And I got to

47
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 1: thinking about some tropes, some stereotypes I've seen in our media,

48
00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 1: because for a long time bisexuality has kind of been

49
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 1: a punchline in our entertainment. Um Carrie Bradshaw's Sex in

50
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,480
Speaker 1: the City line that it's just a layover on the

51
00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,360
Speaker 1: way to gaytown, for instance, are Liz Lemon on Dirty

52
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,720
Speaker 1: Rock when she quips that it was just something invented

53
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,560
Speaker 1: in the nineties to sell hair products, or the l

54
00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 1: words assessment that it is quote just gross um or

55
00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,240
Speaker 1: bisexual character as crazy in quotes are evil like Frank

56
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,440
Speaker 1: Underwood on House of Cards, Lady Goga's character Elizabeth on

57
00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:45,560
Speaker 1: American Horror Story. Big examples of that, and this lack

58
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:49,480
Speaker 1: of good representation has consequences. It shapes how we see

59
00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:54,200
Speaker 1: bisexual people and how bisexual people see themselves. We spoke

60
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,160
Speaker 1: to our panel of experts, Dr Tangela Roberts, Dr Tanya Israel,

61
00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,320
Speaker 1: Diane Adams, and Haran green Smith, all of whom were

62
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:05,880
Speaker 1: rad are rad and activists in the bisexual community. Here's

63
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:11,320
Speaker 1: Tantel and Tanya. I think that, um, maybe like the

64
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 1: media just can't get it right, because there's there's a

65
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,480
Speaker 1: lot of like mystery what is the bisexual and a

66
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:24,520
Speaker 1: lot of just what people talk about. Is this media

67
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:29,040
Speaker 1: representation of you know, either the sixth woman who the

68
00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,279
Speaker 1: unicorn and she gets invited to like have a threesome

69
00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:39,520
Speaker 1: with a couple, or no, that's about it. Yeah, yeah,

70
00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,800
Speaker 1: that's what I was going to say, the evil bisexual, right, Yeah, yeah,

71
00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 1: the there's always the evil bisexual who's like, you know,

72
00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,920
Speaker 1: running ramped and quare communities and like breaking lesbians hearts.

73
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,320
Speaker 1: Or but then at the same time, you have like

74
00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,480
Speaker 1: the media image of like the lesbian who wants to

75
00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,159
Speaker 1: like quote unquote terms straight women. I'm like, well, it

76
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,400
Speaker 1: couldn't be that those straight women are actually but I'm

77
00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,760
Speaker 1: gonna talk a little bit about internalized stigma because what

78
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,440
Speaker 1: happens for people is that there's all these negative messages

79
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,920
Speaker 1: out there about uh, sexual orientation. I mean there's negative

80
00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 1: messages out there about all kinds of things. So you know,

81
00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,160
Speaker 1: if if you're not a sexual minority person, you can

82
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,160
Speaker 1: think about things that you've heard, like let's say you're

83
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,000
Speaker 1: UM an ethnic minority person, you can think of things

84
00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,960
Speaker 1: that you've heard about your ethnic groups. UM. If you're

85
00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,720
Speaker 1: a person with a disability, you can think about like

86
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,640
Speaker 1: what did you hear about people with disabilities? And And

87
00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,200
Speaker 1: the problem with all of those messages being out there

88
00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,680
Speaker 1: in the world is if they get transmitted through so

89
00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:48,040
Speaker 1: many different ways, through media representations and through what you

90
00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 1: learn in school, and what you hear from your faith

91
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,880
Speaker 1: leaders and what your parents tell you or what your

92
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 1: parents are silent about and avoid telling you, and what

93
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,480
Speaker 1: your peers say or what you're fear ease you about

94
00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:05,480
Speaker 1: or bully other people about. Like, these messages get communicated

95
00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,400
Speaker 1: in so many different ways, And the problem is then

96
00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:13,599
Speaker 1: we can start to believe those things about ourselves. Like

97
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,640
Speaker 1: even if on some level we're like, well, I don't

98
00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,799
Speaker 1: think that's true, there may be some level, either conscious

99
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,280
Speaker 1: or a conscious that we start to believe those things.

100
00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:26,320
Speaker 1: So when we internalize those negative messages from outside, it

101
00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 1: can really eat away at our mental health UM. And

102
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,800
Speaker 1: we can see that, like we know that UM internalized

103
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 1: stigma for bisexual people is associated with UM negative mental

104
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,320
Speaker 1: health outcomes, and so we can see that the the

105
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 1: more people believe those things, those negative things about the

106
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,960
Speaker 1: group that they belong to UM, then then they're going

107
00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,800
Speaker 1: to UM you know, have more struggles with their mental health.

108
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,880
Speaker 1: The good news is, actually this is really exciting. I

109
00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,520
Speaker 1: have to tell you this that my research team created

110
00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,680
Speaker 1: this online intervention. So these online activities that interactive activities

111
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,960
Speaker 1: thinks about half an hour to do them, and they

112
00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:20,280
Speaker 1: can actually decrease internalized stigma. So or if you you know,

113
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,480
Speaker 1: if you compare people who do these activities people who

114
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,160
Speaker 1: get other kinds of activities, like they've got lower internalized

115
00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,360
Speaker 1: stigma in half an hour. And I'm like, wow, this

116
00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:33,680
Speaker 1: is super exciting because UM, you know, it's it's a

117
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,120
Speaker 1: small difference that it makes, but it's encouraging to think

118
00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,880
Speaker 1: that there are things that we can do that can

119
00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,560
Speaker 1: actually change that for people UM UH. And we can

120
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 1: help people like to support their resilience in the face

121
00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,320
Speaker 1: of all of these negative messages that they get exposed to.

122
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 1: So I'm really excited about that. So we have some

123
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,200
Speaker 1: more for you listeners, but first we have a quick

124
00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:16,160
Speaker 1: break from a word from our sponsor, and we're back,

125
00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:19,200
Speaker 1: Thank you, sponsor. One thing what we are curious about

126
00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,600
Speaker 1: was the personal experiences of our interviewees. Then they were

127
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,480
Speaker 1: gracious enough to oblige. I learned amazing term and grad

128
00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,760
Speaker 1: school about research one of my grad stool colleagues, so

129
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 1: that at some point in in certain fields, probably not

130
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:39,320
Speaker 1: so much just like chemistry and physics, because there's like

131
00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: so much amazing things that you can do, but more

132
00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,320
Speaker 1: so with like the social sciences, you tend to do

133
00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,000
Speaker 1: a lot of research. You're like, I'm doing research all

134
00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,840
Speaker 1: myself because this is experience that I have and I

135
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,000
Speaker 1: want to see other people have it. UM and that's

136
00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:56,400
Speaker 1: sort of with my introduction into UM doing by research

137
00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:01,080
Speaker 1: and it expanded a little bit. But some of my experiences,

138
00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:08,280
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god. I dated queer women

139
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,760
Speaker 1: who have said that they were afraid I was going

140
00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,959
Speaker 1: to leave them for as this man. UM usually like

141
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 1: to me saying that it really doesn't better who I

142
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,360
Speaker 1: leave you for, because it cost you. We asked about

143
00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:26,640
Speaker 1: their coming out stories. Oh yeah, it's it's I feel

144
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,760
Speaker 1: like it's so stereotypical. It was when I was in

145
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:36,520
Speaker 1: collegege I like, I almost like just hate saying it

146
00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,400
Speaker 1: because like everyone's like, oh you everyone explores the sexual

147
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,080
Speaker 1: orientation in college. Sure, and I wanted to do something different.

148
00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,320
Speaker 1: But no. It was when I was in college. I

149
00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 1: was at a um at a private Catholic school with

150
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,440
Speaker 1: like single single sex storms, and I fell in love

151
00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,400
Speaker 1: with my roommate at the time, and that sort of

152
00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,920
Speaker 1: put me in like a just until tales. Then I

153
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,320
Speaker 1: was like, wait, what is this? Like I like her,

154
00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,760
Speaker 1: but I like her more than a friend. I like

155
00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,880
Speaker 1: her like I want to always be around her. I

156
00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,880
Speaker 1: like her like I have like boyfriends in the past. Uh,

157
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:17,439
Speaker 1: this was interesting, And I remember I think, like my

158
00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,400
Speaker 1: confusion then wasn't wasn't really like, oh I'm confused about

159
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,400
Speaker 1: this orientation. It was like, oh, but wait, I don't

160
00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,960
Speaker 1: think I don't I don't think leslian fits for me.

161
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 1: I don't think lesbian is ever fit for me. And

162
00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 1: I actually remember like running out of the dorm room

163
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:36,480
Speaker 1: into like the quad area and I was like, yeah, no,

164
00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 1: that that that guy that I saw that works in

165
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:44,560
Speaker 1: the library, he's still hot. Got it? Maybe I'm By

166
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,599
Speaker 1: And that's sort of what I'm just gonna have to

167
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,600
Speaker 1: stick with because yeah, I just sort of like what

168
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,960
Speaker 1: I like and it comes in different packages and Okay, sure,

169
00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:59,520
Speaker 1: that's fine. Um. So it wasn't really like like that tremental,

170
00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:01,000
Speaker 1: I guess for me. But I mean I did have

171
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,080
Speaker 1: some pretty negative experiences with some family members, and that

172
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:08,920
Speaker 1: it's always a process coming up the family, like they

173
00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,920
Speaker 1: have to sort of go through their shock and grief

174
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 1: and um hopefully eventually acceptance. But that's always that process.

175
00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,160
Speaker 1: But I've been lucky enough to um have really really

176
00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,600
Speaker 1: great friends honestly, Like I have the best group of

177
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,320
Speaker 1: people that I can call like my assumed family in

178
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,559
Speaker 1: the world. Um. And at that time, I was in college,

179
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,160
Speaker 1: and so I was lucky enough to sort of use

180
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,560
Speaker 1: my growing research interests as a way to explore more

181
00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,960
Speaker 1: about sexual orientation. So it's like, Okay, I think I'm by,

182
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,480
Speaker 1: let me write, let me like do some research about

183
00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,079
Speaker 1: this and see if I can like do a presentation

184
00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,520
Speaker 1: on bisexuality and what if my classes can I get

185
00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:59,080
Speaker 1: away with that? Sure? Why not? It's college. Well, the

186
00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,640
Speaker 1: first thing I would say is, I, you know, I

187
00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,840
Speaker 1: don't think I was bisexual when I was growing up,

188
00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:06,920
Speaker 1: like when I was in high school and college. Like,

189
00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,160
Speaker 1: I don't think that I came out when I was

190
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,040
Speaker 1: twenty five. I think I actually like became bisexual in

191
00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,480
Speaker 1: a way. Um, and and so I just want to

192
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 1: sort of acknowledge that there can be fluidity in that also.

193
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:22,440
Speaker 1: But I'm also going to say this super clearly, the

194
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,200
Speaker 1: fact that people's sexual orientation can seen doesn't mean you

195
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,839
Speaker 1: can change it, you know, doesn't mean that you can

196
00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,400
Speaker 1: like have a treatment or something that's going to change

197
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,960
Speaker 1: your sexual orientation. So there's a difference between like understanding

198
00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,400
Speaker 1: fluidity and and trying to change sexual orientation. I know

199
00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:46,320
Speaker 1: y'all know that, but I'm just bad, very yeah so

200
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:51,120
Speaker 1: so so So the first thing that changed was just

201
00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:54,480
Speaker 1: sort of coming into my understanding of myself as bisexual,

202
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,079
Speaker 1: and um, for me, it started out a more cognitive process.

203
00:12:58,120 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 1: I think that it does for other people. Like I

204
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,720
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, I don't think I'm a I don't

205
00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,720
Speaker 1: think I'm a zero on the Kinsey scale. I'm probably

206
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,960
Speaker 1: more like a one or two. So so then does

207
00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,720
Speaker 1: it make sense for me to identify as heterosexual. And

208
00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,280
Speaker 1: then I went, okay, what do identify as? So tells

209
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 1: me a lot to kind of get to bisexual. But

210
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you the the thing that where where I

211
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,679
Speaker 1: really was like, oh, yes, I'm bisexual was and this

212
00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,839
Speaker 1: is this is a story about like the importance of

213
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,800
Speaker 1: visibility and community. Because I went to this conference. It

214
00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:34,600
Speaker 1: was the Association for Women in Psychology conference and it's

215
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,959
Speaker 1: just feminist psychology conference and there's a caucus on bisexuality

216
00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,720
Speaker 1: and sexual diversity there. So I was like, oh, I'm

217
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,320
Speaker 1: gonna go to that. Yeah, but like that's the moment

218
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,640
Speaker 1: where I felt like, Okay, I can fully embrace this identity.

219
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 1: And so so I'm just gonna say that that's something

220
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: important is for people to be exposed to people who

221
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 1: are like them, who are bisexual, because I'm not like

222
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,760
Speaker 1: all bisexual people. There's an awful lot of bisexual people

223
00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,840
Speaker 1: out there and so might not be a fit, but

224
00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,560
Speaker 1: finding those those specific groups, so that was really exciting

225
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:11,920
Speaker 1: that I was like, yeah, And then I I wrote

226
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,280
Speaker 1: some I did a presentation and I wrote some personal

227
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 1: narrative stuff about being biracial and bisexual and so you know,

228
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 1: I kind of put that out there, um, but then

229
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,400
Speaker 1: it was so it was a stalient part of my identity,

230
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,440
Speaker 1: but it wasn't necessarily like the only thing going on.

231
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 1: I felt like I was, you know, part of a

232
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,000
Speaker 1: broader LGBTQ community. UM. And I would always say, you know,

233
00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:38,080
Speaker 1: people would be like, oh, yeah, it's good to have

234
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,440
Speaker 1: all these lesbians together, and I would say, a bisexuals.

235
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 1: You know, so I was always like speaking up about that,

236
00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,400
Speaker 1: but it wasn't it was really um when I did

237
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 1: the Ted talk and then you know, all of the

238
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,480
Speaker 1: stuff that's come after that that it's become like such

239
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,720
Speaker 1: a salient part of my identity and so you know,

240
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,000
Speaker 1: so I would say that the thing that's changed most

241
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,840
Speaker 1: is probably le the salience of it, um for my life.

242
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,040
Speaker 1: I will also say, because I was teaching this class

243
00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:10,840
Speaker 1: on bisexuality, um, I as I dressed like the bisexual

244
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:18,080
Speaker 1: flag for each class. Here's Diana story. I had some

245
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,960
Speaker 1: struggles with with my coming out journey, particularly because I

246
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:27,520
Speaker 1: think that people perceive by women, particularly feminine, by women

247
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 1: like me um as you know, flooty or as sexually

248
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,960
Speaker 1: promiscuous or is it interested in having freedoms? And so

249
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,320
Speaker 1: then people project that story onto you, and that's really,

250
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:44,360
Speaker 1: you know, too much information, too personal for being openly by,

251
00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: for instance, in the workplace or with your family, if

252
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 1: that's the way people are perceiving what by means. And

253
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,640
Speaker 1: so I really dealt with that, um. Even at my

254
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,800
Speaker 1: first job as a lawyer, they circulated our resumes, which

255
00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:00,600
Speaker 1: included my bisexuality activism as a law to it, and

256
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 1: our pictures and the time, I was very blonde and

257
00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 1: feminine looking, and they decided, on the basis of the

258
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,840
Speaker 1: fact that I was basically a pretty feminine girl and

259
00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,680
Speaker 1: that I was bisexual, that I shouldn't have any male

260
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:18,000
Speaker 1: supervisors because I was probably a risk for getting involved

261
00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:21,680
Speaker 1: with one of my male supervisors because bisexual women, you know,

262
00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,280
Speaker 1: must be sexually available, which is absolutely appalling. And this

263
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,400
Speaker 1: was a law firm in New York City, um, fifteen

264
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 1: years ago. This was not so long ago, and that

265
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,000
Speaker 1: is still happening, that kind of experience, UM, of being

266
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 1: over sexualized and stereotyped in that way. So I feel

267
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 1: like you deal with a lot of that from the

268
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: straight world and then in the lgbt Q world. At

269
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 1: the same time, I was entering queer spaces and was

270
00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 1: perceived as not clear enough. And at the time the

271
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,960
Speaker 1: movie Legally Blonde had come out, and um, some of

272
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:58,360
Speaker 1: the lesbians and the lgbt Q group were teasing me

273
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,360
Speaker 1: and would like leave me pink luffy things and call

274
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:06,639
Speaker 1: me legally blonde because um, they also stereotyped me because

275
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,119
Speaker 1: I was feminine and I didn't wasn't queer enough for them, um,

276
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: And so I got a lot of hostility from both sides,

277
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,560
Speaker 1: and even being openly bisexual, um, as a student activist

278
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,399
Speaker 1: with my law school professors and with my deans, I

279
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,119
Speaker 1: was then wondering, given those experiences, oh God, is my

280
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,200
Speaker 1: dean thinking about me having a freesome? Because that's what

281
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,520
Speaker 1: people think of when they think of bisexual. And so

282
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,399
Speaker 1: I'm very deeply involved in the l g b t

283
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,239
Speaker 1: q I community. But then I'm meeting colleagues who are

284
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:36,880
Speaker 1: often in the same sex relationships, and I have a husband,

285
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 1: and so I still have to come out and I

286
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 1: still see raised eyebrows and surprise looks that I'm very

287
00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,560
Speaker 1: serious about this kind of activism and this kind of community,

288
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,640
Speaker 1: and yet I'm in a different sex partnership. So I'm

289
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,919
Speaker 1: still regularly having to come out and still dealing with

290
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,440
Speaker 1: that and having to sometimes wonder whether people are going

291
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: to think of me differently or think of me as

292
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 1: less of a part of the community. I have entered

293
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:04,760
Speaker 1: into a marriage with a bisexual man, and we went

294
00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 1: on vacation to Morocco and to Turkey, UH in the

295
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 1: past year, and those are places where if I had

296
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 1: happened to end up with a same sex UM spouse,

297
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: it would not be safe for me to go to

298
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,359
Speaker 1: the places that I went to, and that is not

299
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,800
Speaker 1: fair and I have mixed feelings about that and part

300
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,560
Speaker 1: of the way that I use those privileges because I

301
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: really do feel like now I have privileges, I'm not

302
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,400
Speaker 1: being actively stigmatized, that my marriage is not at risk,

303
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,159
Speaker 1: my parenting status is not at risk, I'm not at

304
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 1: risk of violence. For traveling, I can go undercover and

305
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,359
Speaker 1: pass as just a white, different sex couple UM. I

306
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,800
Speaker 1: feel an extra responsibility to the LGBTQ community, and it's

307
00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 1: actually made me go deeper into my activism because I

308
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,119
Speaker 1: feel like I have the privilege to not have this

309
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,879
Speaker 1: be deeply traumatic on a day to day basis in

310
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,800
Speaker 1: terms of my own parenting status, and so for example,

311
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,720
Speaker 1: I work really actively to make sure that UM same

312
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,199
Speaker 1: sex couples and other LGBTQ families can maintain their parenting

313
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:08,040
Speaker 1: status because right now within the US and in Europe,

314
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: it's still very common the same sex couples aren't able

315
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,400
Speaker 1: to get their parenting status. It is still completely legitimate

316
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,000
Speaker 1: and legal in much of the United States and Europe

317
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,040
Speaker 1: to discriminate in terms of foster care and adoption, to

318
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,280
Speaker 1: not evil, to not be able to adopt a child

319
00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,080
Speaker 1: through many adoption agencies UM, and to not feel safe

320
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 1: traveling in many places, and to not be able to

321
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: get your parenting status recognized, which can really have devastating

322
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: consequences if non biological parents are then excluded from hospital

323
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 1: rooms when their kids are injured in the foreign countries,

324
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,359
Speaker 1: for example, because they're not recognized as a parent UM.

325
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 1: So I feel really, I feel really committed UM to

326
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,920
Speaker 1: being there as an LGBTQ activist and feel UM the

327
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,840
Speaker 1: the deep inspiration to claim this as part of my

328
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,399
Speaker 1: identity because it's an important part of myself. Even though

329
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,840
Speaker 1: I happened to marry a man UM and to them

330
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,880
Speaker 1: use at um situation of greater relative comfort, which isn't

331
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 1: fair to go back and support the rest of my

332
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 1: LGBTQ community. And here's van. I'll tell um one personal

333
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:20,640
Speaker 1: story about facing discrimination from the my my supportive communities. UM.

334
00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:27,680
Speaker 1: About uh, maybe seventy seven years ago, I was working

335
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 1: in a large organizational, large LGBT organization, and I marched

336
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,960
Speaker 1: in Pride with my partner, who was a person of

337
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 1: a different gender than me, long term partner. We've been

338
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,560
Speaker 1: together now for twelve years, and he and I were

339
00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: super excited to march and Pride. There was like a

340
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: bedazzling shirt party beforehand, and we like cut our shirts

341
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: up and bedazzled them with like the Beagle's metal like

342
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 1: weird triangle German things. Um. We had like face paint

343
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 1: on and like bandana's and we were carrying one end

344
00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 1: of like the balloon arch, the rainbow balloon are I'm like,

345
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 1: we had fans were like handing up stickers, and he

346
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: and I were holding hands the whole time and like

347
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,840
Speaker 1: smooching because everyone is holding hands and smooching, And we

348
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: had a really fabulous time. And then we returned the

349
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 1: balloon arch back to the main office of the organization

350
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 1: and we were writing down from the offices to the

351
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:25,200
Speaker 1: bottom of the building, me, my partner, and then another

352
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: of my coworkers, male Gates, who um I had worked

353
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: with my entire internship there all summer and um so

354
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: he knew me quite well and he had been there

355
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 1: the entire time at the parade, and he said, hey, heron, um,

356
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 1: I have someone I've loved to hook you up with.

357
00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 1: Can I give you her number? And I said, oh,

358
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: thank you so much. You know, uh, my partner and

359
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,920
Speaker 1: I are actually in an ugomist thank you and for

360
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: my monogamist right now. And he said, um, oh, who's

361
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 1: your part nerve? And I looked down at mine and

362
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: my partner's hands be helped together. And then I look

363
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: up at my partner and I point to him and

364
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:28,000
Speaker 1: I'm like this person that partners like hi, And the

365
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 1: man turned around in the elevator and faced the wall.

366
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 1: I think one of the reasons I tell that stories

367
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: because it is a really good illustration of bias in

368
00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:47,280
Speaker 1: kind of a funny way. Um. But there's another story

369
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: that I don't actually tell very frequently. UM, that really

370
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 1: impacted my ability to do my job and to feel safe.

371
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,720
Speaker 1: It wasn't another organization and I was in the car

372
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 1: was my immediate supervisor, and we were in the car

373
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,000
Speaker 1: for a long journey a couple of hours, and halfway

374
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 1: through she turned to me out of the blue and

375
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: she said, Karen, have you ever been in a long

376
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:33,600
Speaker 1: term relationship with a woman? And I felt cold all

377
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: over and I knew that there was no right answer

378
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: to this question. There were only wrong answers to this question. Yeah,

379
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: as I said yes, she would make me define long term.

380
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: If I said no, she would essentially use that as

381
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: justification to herself. Two dismissed my queerness to dismiss me

382
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:20,479
Speaker 1: being part of her community. If I didn't say anything,

383
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: I would be not answering my boss direct question to me.

384
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:34,000
Speaker 1: And it was clear that she thought this was an

385
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: appropriate question to ask an employee. You know, we're both attorneys.

386
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: We were headed to a hearing, and this is what

387
00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: started the day for me, demanding that I justify my

388
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: identifications as a queer person. What was your response and

389
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: what was her response? Does it matter to you what

390
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: my response was? Actually? I think the reason I ask

391
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:16,440
Speaker 1: is because for so many people, what do you do

392
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 1: in those situations? Like I cannot imagine being pigeonholed into

393
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 1: that situation and for a woman or I'm sorry, a

394
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: person like you who survived and continue to tell that

395
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: story as something that has impacted you and will probably

396
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 1: impact you obviously does for a long if not forever.

397
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: I think that question came because like what did you do?

398
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 1: What can you do? What did you do? I think

399
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: that's my thought and just wondering like the audacity. Yeah, yeah,

400
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 1: I think I want to push a little bit and

401
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: not tell you because I I'm going to use this

402
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,239
Speaker 1: as like a little opportunity to, like, you know, let

403
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: maybe you and some listeners be like a little uncomfortable

404
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 1: with not knowing, because it doesn't matter. That's the truth

405
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: about that question is the answer isn't relevant. You know,

406
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: if someone had never had any relationship with anyone and

407
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: identified as straight, we're gay, no one would ever question

408
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: their sexual orientation. But for some reason, bi sexuality validity

409
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:40,399
Speaker 1: is predicated upon someone sexual contact with people and the

410
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: quantity and the quality and the duration, and for some reason,

411
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: our sexual orientation is the only sexual orientation subjected to

412
00:26:50,880 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: that level of scrutiny and analysis. Mhm mm hmm. Sorry,

413
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: I'm taking it all in. M There's a lot of

414
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 1: emotions like a tears in my eyes right now, I'm

415
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:14,280
Speaker 1: not gonna lie. So obviously we got a little emotional

416
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: and we wanted to know how to be better allies. Obviously,

417
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: as someone who misunderstood and did not quite see the

418
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: depth of why this is so dangerous, misrepresenting bisexual the

419
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: terms why it was so dangerous, I definitely had to ask,

420
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: how do I become a better ally? How do I

421
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 1: make sure that this does not happen in my circle

422
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,600
Speaker 1: or those around me, or my influencing um And as

423
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 1: you can hear, there's a moment of intensity with heron

424
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: and it was really uncomfortable. But as uncomfortable as it was,

425
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: her point was amazing, the fact that this is how

426
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: she felt, this is how uncomfortable she was as well.

427
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,240
Speaker 1: And it was like, wow, you know what, I really

428
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: appreciate this moment, even though again I was super uncomfortable.

429
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: We all kind of stopped and I looked around. I

430
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: was like, what's happening? But it was so necessary and

431
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: it was so important that she was able to say that, well,

432
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: like I said, funding is I mean, funding is definitely

433
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: UM at the source of a lot of uh social issues, right. UM,

434
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: So if you're looking at UM and I don't have

435
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: I don't have the numbers off hand UM, but if

436
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: there's a few articles that have showed like the amounts

437
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 1: of UM federal, both federal and both community funds UM

438
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: to LGBT organizations, and if you're breaking them down by

439
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: identity bisexual people, although statistically they they're most people who

440
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 1: identify as quote of LGBT identified by LGB Looking at

441
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: sexual orientation identifies bisexuals, there's more people who identify it's

442
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: bisexual than there are people who identify as lead's beinging gay.

443
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: But we have the numbers in terms of like you know,

444
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: we got like a whole bipote over here, but we're

445
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: not getting the fund for that. So even though there

446
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: is a ton of people who identify as bisexual, that

447
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: isn't represented in the funding for UM by programming for

448
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: bisexual awareness, for health disparities research, for any other types

449
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: of research. So it's it's in an interesting place where

450
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: you have the bodies, but you don't have the money

451
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: to support those bodies. Recently, actually I saw an article

452
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: going around social media that said the a large number

453
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: of black women identify as bisexual, and I was like,

454
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 1: du like seriously, we're just not talking about this. UM.

455
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: And so again, we have the numbers, we know that

456
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: there's a ton of black women who identifies bisexual, but

457
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any type of resources or UM research

458
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: or sort of health advocacy or any sort of social

459
00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: attitude specifically for black bi women. We know the numbers

460
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: are there, but why aren't we sort of supporting that

461
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: when we have we have the data that shows we

462
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: have the people right everything in research, It's like, you know,

463
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: if you have if you have the people, then you

464
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: know you can do the studies, and you can you

465
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: can you should be able to get the funding, and

466
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: it's we're not. We're not getting that. We have a

467
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: lot of people, but we don't have money to support

468
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: those people. And that support to just look at look

469
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,239
Speaker 1: like funding UM, I mean bisexual organizations like UM, buy

470
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: net USA, like the New York Area Bisexual Network like

471
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: rc UM offering more funding so they can do more

472
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: community work. UM having more research funding, I mean a

473
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,040
Speaker 1: by person who research and bisexuals. I would I would

474
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: love to be able to apply for like a by

475
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: specific like federal grant, but that'd be amazing UM. And

476
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: that's not and it's not just in like, oh, I

477
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: want that for me, because I'm not. It's not for me.

478
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: I'm not doing you know, research like on me and

479
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: Milling and on other people. And it's so I can

480
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 1: it's so people who can able to distiminate this research

481
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: out so we can reach more people and have like

482
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: a bigger impact. UM. So I think it really it

483
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: all blows down to the money at the end of

484
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: the day. I think that, UM, it's really powerful to

485
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: do things like this UM and actually really listen. So

486
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: I really appreciate everybody who's listening and being open to

487
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: hearing from people from that community. And I'm appreciative that

488
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: you are bringing people on who are from the bio

489
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: community to really hear about our experiences. And I think

490
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: that it's really useful throughout the LGBTQ community to be

491
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: listening to the experiences and lived experiences of people who

492
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 1: are themselves transgender, who are intersex, who are a sexual,

493
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: who are lesbian, who are gay or transgender, and being

494
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: able to UM continue to keep an open mind and

495
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: continue listening. I'm still listening. I've been listening for twenty

496
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: years to my colleagues and my community and we're all

497
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: still learning, so I think being in a learning space

498
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: is really helpful. I also think that as I feel

499
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: the personal emotional space to take on some of these

500
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 1: issues because they're not directing my own parenting status, for example,

501
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: in a traumatic way, I think that's there's a really

502
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: powerful space for allies when, for example, there have been

503
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 1: absolutely horrific um horrific measures by the current Trump administration. UM,

504
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: it's really useful when your lgbt Q friends are just

505
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: feeling emotionally exhausted to be the one who's spreading the

506
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: word online, who's talking to people about fundraisers, about issues,

507
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: about calling your senators, having the energy to do that

508
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: in moments when people in the LGBT community themselves might

509
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: just feel really defeated. So I think that there's a

510
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: lot of really powerful opportunities to be an ally. UM.

511
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: I am a very committed ally, for example, to people

512
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: in the transgender community, and I feel a lot of

513
00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: alliance between the bisexual and transgender community. As often the

514
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,200
Speaker 1: hidden or more forgotten parts of the l g b

515
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 1: t Q I a continuum, and so I'm often interested

516
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 1: in amplifying voices of transgender people as all as of

517
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,720
Speaker 1: intersex and a sexual people, UM, along with bisexual people,

518
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: to sort of remind people that the only the only

519
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: image out there isn't doesn't need to just be of

520
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: lesbian and gay people who are in same sex marriages.

521
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: And I think that that's particularly important right now when

522
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,760
Speaker 1: the transgender, when tending gender Americans are under so much attack,

523
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: and when there's been advisories from Trump's Health and Human

524
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: Services that uh, people who are medical workers could not

525
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 1: even maybe don't even treat transgender people because of a

526
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: religious exemption, UM, and that homeless shelters would be able

527
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: to turn away transgender people. I think that, um, those

528
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: measures may not happen, UM, but still they are a

529
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: real hospile message to the very human dignity of people

530
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: in the transgender community. And people are feeling really beaten down,

531
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: and so I'm often picking up the mantle and working

532
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: on those issues. And my nonprofit Wasn't kind of Low

533
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: Center has a Transgender Umbrella project, which is providing pro

534
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: bono services in New York and New Jersey to transgender

535
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 1: low income people to do a full We're calling it

536
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: an umbrella to protect from whatever storms come of legal

537
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: protection as well as name change package, because I think

538
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: that's really important to be UM bisexual allies for the

539
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: trans community. And I think that everybody can be an

540
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 1: ally to people who are by by remembering in those

541
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,200
Speaker 1: moments to not erase bisexuals from the conversation. Um, you know,

542
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: when you're watching the Queen documentary, to say, wait a minute,

543
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: don't describe him as a gay man. He actually had

544
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 1: a long term female partner. UM sounds like by to me,

545
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: you know, just being being willing to be part of

546
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: that conversation of not erasing bisexual people from our community history,

547
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: if I think, also really helpful. So one of the

548
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: things that I had asked about in being an ally

549
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: was something specifically with my job. I' do work with teenagers.

550
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: I do work with at risk kids UM, and I

551
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: work with them in the Southern State, and for that

552
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of training or understanding, and we

553
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: do talk about the LGBTQ, but just like a majority

554
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: of the society, we can't. We concentrate on the l

555
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: g and the T that's about it. And I wanted

556
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: to know how do we service these youths who do

557
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,759
Speaker 1: identify as bisexual or who are trying to figure out

558
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 1: if they're bisexual, and here she isn't speaking about it.

559
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: I've written a bunch about how we can support I

560
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: use um, how we can support by adults. Um. The

561
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: easiest way is, honestly, just to have conversations like these,

562
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: just talk about bisexuality, you know, normalize it among your

563
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: non by communities so people are like, oh yeah, by

564
00:35:53,840 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: totally cool. Um. The second way is to integrate examples

565
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,280
Speaker 1: of buy and Pan folks into your all of your literature.

566
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,760
Speaker 1: And that means posters on the walls, that means choirs,

567
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: That means board report, that means UM research, that means

568
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: outreach to youth, and outreach to donors and outreach to

569
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: the community. UM. Something simple as you know, Uh, Bianca,

570
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 1: a black by trans woman, was able to get a

571
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: placement at this organization thanks to our work. Yea um.

572
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 1: And you know, if you want to go a little

573
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,279
Speaker 1: bit deeper, then you know, have a support group for

574
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: by and Pan youth, you know, once a month, and

575
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: I promise you nobody will come for two months. And

576
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 1: I think that the point at which a lot of

577
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: folks say all that means there's no buy and trans people,

578
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: Buy and Pan people here and that's the problem. Nobody. Well,

579
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 1: I should back up a little bit. By and trans

580
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: folks have buy and Pan folks have been burned so

581
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: frequently by organizations who try and kind of do a

582
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: nominal support for buy and Pan communities that we're really

583
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:22,439
Speaker 1: really suspicious. But if an organization has a regular buy

584
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: and Pan support group night and they keep at it,

585
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: even if there's no one there for six months, people

586
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: will come out. But you need to keep at it,

587
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: I promise you. All the data shows that buy and

588
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: Pan youth are everywhere, and we are the majority of

589
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:45,600
Speaker 1: youth being served in every youth services organization that serves LGBT.

590
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 1: Use I am wrote a piece called Bisexuality Margins to

591
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: Center um to to think about ways that within the

592
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: field of psychology and in society, we we thought about

593
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,719
Speaker 1: bisexuality as being on the margins and and so we

594
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: haven't been paying attention to it, so we don't see

595
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:09,359
Speaker 1: it clearly, and so we're not actually like understanding who

596
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,920
Speaker 1: bisexual people are in responding to their need. So what

597
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: happens if we bring bisexuality into the center and use

598
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: it as a lens to understand things you can't understand

599
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: bisexuality without understanding health severity. You can't understand bi sexuality

600
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: without understanding history. You can't understand bisexuality without understanding media

601
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: representations and mental health and uh and mental health services

602
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: and like all these different things attitudes. So I was

603
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 1: really teaching about a lot of different topics to the

604
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: lens of bisexuality because then you know, we understand all

605
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 1: of these things better. So that's the thing. If we

606
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: center bisexuality, it helps us understand everything. We can then understand, uh,

607
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 1: you know, people who are in relationships with people of

608
00:38:55,080 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: the same gender, people who are in relationships with people

609
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: of another gender, we can understand, and gender more complexly also, um,

610
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: we can understand it multidimensionally. It helps us to complexify attraction.

611
00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: I sort of thought I made up as works to plexify,

612
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: but apparently it's it's an actual word. Love It so

613
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: that the thing about attraction is that we might have

614
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: attractions that are slightly different to some people, Like we

615
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: might fall in love with some types of people and

616
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,479
Speaker 1: you know, wants to have sex with other types of people,

617
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: And in bisexuality, we we have a better understanding of that.

618
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: But that's something that's true of everybody. You know, everybody's

619
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 1: dots are sort of differences that they that they feel

620
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:50,239
Speaker 1: about attraction. Um, And so so we can see attractions

621
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: through a different we can also some people, Um, some

622
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: of the negativity around bisexuality is because people see bisexual

623
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: people as being just really like hyper sexual, and so

624
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of negativity about sexuality that's related to

625
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: negativity about bisexuality. So I'm like, maybe centering bisexuality allows

626
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 1: us to talent all that negativity around sexuality, to talent erotophobia,

627
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: you know, to say, Okay, well, you know, maybe bisexual

628
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: people like are affectual, but maybe so are heterosexual people

629
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: and lovely to gay people and and maybe that's okay, um,

630
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: and and to embrace our sexuality. Same thing with monogamy.

631
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: You know, we spend a lot of time trying to

632
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:37,320
Speaker 1: combat this stereotype that bisexual people can't be monogamous, because

633
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: it turns out that bisexual people, as a fact, are

634
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:45,800
Speaker 1: able to be monogamous. So so we know that, and

635
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: we know that that bisexual people can't evenogous. However, bisexual

636
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: people might be less likely to want to be monogamous, um,

637
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: and might be less likely to be monogamous than other

638
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: people are. Now that doesn't mean that they cheat. You know,

639
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: we're talking about like consensual non monogamy here. So maybe bisexuality,

640
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: if we center that, we can be like, Okay, how

641
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: does that help us to understand different kinds of arrangements

642
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: of relationships? And maybe that helps us to accept nonmonogamy,

643
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: you know, for people who want that, And maybe it

644
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: helps us think about how to negotiate relationships so that

645
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: it is consensual nonmonogamy and so that you know, so

646
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: that everybody's clear um. And and then I just think,

647
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: you know, the potential to revolutionized gender is is one

648
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: of the most exciting things about bisexuality because, like, like

649
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: I said, I don't think that it reinforces the idea

650
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 1: of binary gender. In fact, I think ultimately bisexuality challenges

651
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 1: the idea that gender is narrow and that gender is

652
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 1: the most important characteristic for us to organize the way

653
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: we think about people. So I think if we do that,

654
00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: you know, if we start to do that, then we

655
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 1: can all that say, wow, how do we center transgender

656
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,800
Speaker 1: people and gender non binary people, How do we center

657
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 1: other groups that are really vulnerable in our society? How

658
00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: do we center black lives, how do we center people

659
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 1: with disabilities? How do we center people who are Muslim

660
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 1: and people of other um non dominant religions. And so

661
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 1: I think it just gives us a lot of opportunity

662
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: to start um expanding our thinking about bisexuality, but also

663
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:36,759
Speaker 1: about everybody who's on the margins, and and how we

664
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: can actually transform and improve our society by bringing all

665
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 1: those vulnerable people into the center. We have some advice

666
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: and resources for you listeners, but first we have a

667
00:42:49,320 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 1: quick break for word from our sponsors. We're back, Thank

668
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 1: you sponsor, and we're back with some advice. Advice is

669
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: always welcome, aways welcome, but generally welcome. It's actually good advice. Yes, yes,

670
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: and this was good advice. The other day, a friend

671
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: of mine and I were talking about how when we

672
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,360
Speaker 1: were young and we realized that we both had a

673
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: crush on both Molder and Scully, and we were so

674
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: confused and we didn't like, we didn't know bisexuality was

675
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: a thing, and feeling so confused about it, and um,

676
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,040
Speaker 1: as we got older, kind of this internalized by negativity

677
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: that we thought it must be a phase, because that's

678
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,360
Speaker 1: what we kept hearing, like you're young, You're going to

679
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: grow out of it. Um. Do you have any advice

680
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,640
Speaker 1: for maybe younger people listening who are struggling with this

681
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: right now? Mm hmm absolutely and I completely with a

682
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,279
Speaker 1: molder and Scully both and kind of girl as an

683
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:11,239
Speaker 1: ex file stand in nan um and UM, I think

684
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: that it's okay to be in an experimental phase. I

685
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: think one of the things that is really stigmatizing about

686
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: people who are bisexual is there's this idea that many

687
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 1: people who are bisexual are just in a phase, and

688
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: so there's understandable hurt in UM. Sometimes a lesbian and

689
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: gay community with by people who are going to try

690
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: out dating them and then decided isn't for them? Um

691
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: and uh, you know a lot of people that get

692
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: hurt in that process. Sometimes. I think that my suggestion

693
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:47,439
Speaker 1: is to be open to experimentation in a safe way

694
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: with people that you trust, without needing to have alcohol

695
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: involved or that need to have substances involved, UM, but

696
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: finding people who feel really safe and being able to

697
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 1: communicate honestly with them if you aren't sure. I think

698
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,839
Speaker 1: that UM, rather than leaping into feeling like you need

699
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: to have a label for your identity, right away. Um.

700
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,799
Speaker 1: You don't need to decesimilarly decide if you're by, if

701
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: your pan, if you're gay, if you're lesbian, if your trans, um,

702
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: if you're a general non binary. I think that it's

703
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: possible just to have some experiences and see what feels

704
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: right to you and be honest with the people around

705
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: you when you're not sure how you feel. Um. And

706
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: I think that it's also kind to those around you

707
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: if you say, um, you know, hey, this is my

708
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,040
Speaker 1: first same sex relationship, but I'm not actually sure how

709
00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: it's going to go for me, rather than meet someone

710
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: and say that you're bisexual and keep that hidden, and

711
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: especially if there might be the possibility they might decide, actually,

712
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: this isn't for me. Um. So I think that some

713
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: of that hurt that people have around people who are

714
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: experimentally by can be dealt with partly by just all

715
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: communicating a little bit more and being okay with the

716
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 1: possibility of experimenting. It's fine to need some time to

717
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,320
Speaker 1: try to figure out who you are and try different experiences,

718
00:45:58,360 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 1: and sometimes you try something and figure out it as

719
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: for you and that's okay. So UM. I hope that

720
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,080
Speaker 1: people can find safe places and safe people to feel

721
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 1: like they can have those experiences. And I recognize that

722
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 1: in much of the world, even in most of the

723
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 1: United States, it isn't actually safe for UM, a teenager,

724
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: for a college student necessarily to express same sex interest

725
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 1: and desire, and there's a lot of pressure to keep

726
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: yourself in the closet and to just play along with

727
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: being straight and UM. And I think that's really understandable,

728
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: and that it isn't always a safe thing to get

729
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: out and experiment with who you are UM. But there

730
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: are really wonderful supportive communities for you if you can

731
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 1: get yourself to them. UM. I was definitely one of

732
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: those people who fled to New York City when I

733
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: got the chance from a small working class or old

734
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: town UM and found myself in a place where then

735
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: it felt like it was safe to explore that part

736
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 1: of myself with other really conscious people who are also

737
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: interested in communicating and talking about it and processing who

738
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: we were. And they're embracing l g B, t q

739
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 1: I A communities out there UM online. If you can't

740
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: physically get to them, there's you know, wonderful supportive resources

741
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: and people who are happy to talk and help process UM.

742
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: So I would encourage people who are experimenting, who are

743
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: who are thinking out experimenting, who are confused, to feel

744
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: free to reach out to UM supportive people who've been

745
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 1: in the community for a while, because I think there's

746
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,400
Speaker 1: a lot of UM support and a feeling of kinship

747
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: with that kind of journey, because you know, most of

748
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: us have been on bumpy journey to get where we

749
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 1: are now. We have some resources on our website UM

750
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: at Chosen Family Laws and or dot org UM, and

751
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: we post things really frequently online and in our newsletter UM.

752
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: And in addition, there's a book that I really love

753
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 1: UM called Whipping Girl by Julia Serrano UM and she

754
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: is a transsexual woman. She called herself trans sexual, that's

755
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: her own definition UM. And she talks about sexism and

756
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: the scapegoating of feminity. And she's also works with UH

757
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 1: at last as an endochronologist or has endo chronology knowledge.

758
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: So she describes her experience of living UM as somebody

759
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 1: who is assigned male at birth and then going through

760
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: the experience of UM identifying as female and experiencing sexism

761
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: for the first time UM and it's incredibly powerful. And

762
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:35,880
Speaker 1: she also writes about the UH overlap between bisexuality and

763
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: being transgender and UM. I think she does that really

764
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: powerfully and also conveys UH the kind of definition of

765
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,480
Speaker 1: bisexuality that I use UM in terms of bisexuality, not

766
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: referring to UM A gender binary is only male and female.

767
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: So I think that's one really fantastic resource UM. And

768
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: there's a really really active and vibrant community online where

769
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,040
Speaker 1: you can find lots of lots of continuing conversation and

770
00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: sometimes in fighting in the community. And and speaking of infighting,

771
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: I want to point out that although I personally use

772
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: the term bisexual, and I think it's important that we

773
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:14,839
Speaker 1: hang onto that, and I haven't switched over to pan

774
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: sexual and don't think that there's necessarily a need for

775
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 1: a new word. I completely support people in using whatever

776
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: words and definitions feel right for them. So I support

777
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: people who feel like they want to use pan sexual

778
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: because it's going to be more readily apparent to people

779
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: who aren't necessarily activists in this space that it's transclusive

780
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: UM or froom. It just feels like the right term.

781
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 1: And I think it's important that while we hang onto

782
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: works like bisexual, which are legal medical definition important for

783
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: our activism politically UM that we also feel free to

784
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:51,880
Speaker 1: experiment with words that UM are really personally meaningful for us,

785
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 1: and that can be and ever evolving. UM a set

786
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 1: of terms that describe how people are feeling abou their identity,

787
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: and I think that's absolutely a valid part of the

788
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 1: queer continuum. And I think that something that's also powerful

789
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: and not spoken of very often is the way that

790
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: we can go through a journey over the course of

791
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: our lifetime. And I think I have personally, you know,

792
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: known people who may have in the nineties identified as

793
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 1: a UM uh you know, ah butch lesbian who then

794
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 1: went on to identify as a trans man who now

795
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: may identify as more non binary as the different ideas

796
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: in our community evolved. And I don't think that that

797
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: makes any of those identifications any less valid, but I

798
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: think they were all on an active journey as a

799
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: community to to understand the full realms of um our

800
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: sexuality and gender spectrums and the ways that both can

801
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: even shift over a lifetime. I think that's also something

802
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: that's worth mentioning about bisexual identity that's really true for

803
00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:00,800
Speaker 1: me and many people I know, is that it is

804
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: not necessarily fixed at all times, and so over the

805
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,959
Speaker 1: course of my twenty years of adult life, I haven't

806
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: necessarily been at all times fifty percent romantically and sexually

807
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 1: interested to men and women. There have been times when

808
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,560
Speaker 1: I felt like I am mostly a lesbian, but I

809
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: am married to my husband and I love him, and

810
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: all other men kind of gross me out. And there

811
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: have been other times where I was primarily dating men. Um.

812
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: There have been times where I was primarily romantically attracted

813
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: to men and primarily actually attracted to women, which is complicated,

814
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 1: let me tell you, UM. And I think that all

815
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: of that is a really realistic portrayal of what this

816
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 1: journey can be like. And so if people feel a

817
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: little bit messy and confused along the way, or feel

818
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: like they're definition of themselves is shifting, I don't think

819
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 1: that's a problem. I think I think that's a feature,

820
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: not a bug. I think that's part of a beautiful,

821
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: expansive vision of queer identity that we're working on now.

822
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the ways that the

823
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 1: word queer is actually a really useful word, because queer

824
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:02,440
Speaker 1: embraces a full continue them of identification and doesn't necessarily

825
00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: require us to break ourselves down into like are you

826
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,320
Speaker 1: in the ELB you know, are you over here in

827
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,160
Speaker 1: the L box or the G box, B box, the

828
00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: T box. I think that allows for multiple ways of

829
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,360
Speaker 1: identifying which are outside of a system that uh enforces

830
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 1: sort of heterosexual different sex monogamy and people being sis gender.

831
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: Everybody who who feels like they are somewhere outside of

832
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,800
Speaker 1: that or wants to allow for the possibility of that,

833
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 1: I think clear as a wonderful word in that way

834
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: as well. So one of my suggestions for listeners might

835
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,400
Speaker 1: be to embrace the ways that they are evolving in

836
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: METHY and not feel any guilt a shame about that. Honestly,

837
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: I'd say, like, you're not, like, you're not alone. It

838
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: might it might seem like you're, you know, surrounded by

839
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: people who are some sort of different and the type

840
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,600
Speaker 1: of different that you are people don't really get, but

841
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:58,000
Speaker 1: you're not alone. Like there's massive bisexual communities that are

842
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 1: out there. Um yeah, younger people, older people, you know,

843
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,960
Speaker 1: there's community, you know, um yeah, it might be kind

844
00:53:08,040 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: of hard to find at first if you're not sure

845
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: like where to look, but there's community out there, and

846
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: you know, like there's as much as there's like the

847
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 1: stereotype of like the confused bisexual, there's there's nothing wrong

848
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: with being confused, like people are. Humanity is like the

849
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: confusing concept, and it's it's okay, sort of like I

850
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 1: think that you want to figure some stuff out and

851
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,120
Speaker 1: that's fine. Um, you know, being being confused for a bit, um,

852
00:53:34,239 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 1: it's fine, but just trying not to give into the

853
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: pressure that you have to choose a side when both

854
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: sides are great, great um white shoes, when you can

855
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: just live in either or life. I don't think there's

856
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:56,360
Speaker 1: anything wrong with like answering both and right. Um. I

857
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: joke around a lot with my friends when you know,

858
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 1: we're just doing anything and they're like, oh, do you

859
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:02,600
Speaker 1: want this or do you want this? And my answer

860
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: is just gonna be yes, Like do you want Indian flu?

861
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: Do you want Mexican food? Yes? I think that sort

862
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: of shifting that mindset. I mean, like I say it jokingly,

863
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 1: but like that's sort of what I want to do

864
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: is sort of shift shift people's mindset that it doesn't

865
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: have to be do you want um one sex or

866
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: one gender or one expression or like a whole unquole

867
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 1: opposite sex, gender, expressions, and they're multiple sexus genders and expressions.

868
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, for some people to answer

869
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,919
Speaker 1: is just yes, and that should just be okay. Yeah.

870
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: I think my advice is just to trust yourself. You know,

871
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: maybe you do like going to science bisexual, Maybe you

872
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,600
Speaker 1: identify as pan sexual. Maybe your sexual orientation is fluid.

873
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,399
Speaker 1: A lot of people have fluid sexual orientation, and that's

874
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:59,319
Speaker 1: okay too. Maybe you've gone through different labels in your

875
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 1: life and you change labels as you age, and that's

876
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:09,080
Speaker 1: okay too. Sexual orientation is natural. It is immutable in

877
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 1: the sense that everybody has a sexual orientation. But if

878
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:17,800
Speaker 1: yours changes over time, that's okay too. You can be

879
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,120
Speaker 1: born the way you are and that way fluctually and

880
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: evolve over time and still be just as valid as

881
00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 1: people who knew from the time they were for and

882
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 1: have never changed. That's great too. But those among us

883
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,840
Speaker 1: who have fluid sexual orientations, we are just as valid

884
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: and we were born the way we are. So if

885
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: you have an evolution and the evolution ends with you

886
00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: identifying as buy your pan welcome. I love you. You

887
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: are part of my non monosexual community and you're amazing.

888
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:54,680
Speaker 1: And if you are just stopping by non mono sexuality

889
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:58,040
Speaker 1: through the day of your lifetime. You're also amazing. I

890
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 1: love you, UM, and I will advocate for you throughout

891
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: your lifetime. And yeah, I mean we're all awesome, We're

892
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:14,640
Speaker 1: all cool. So the Bisexual Resource Center is a great UM.

893
00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: It's got an online size of so in based in Boston,

894
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: but but if you look for Bisexual Resource Center online,

895
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: they're on Twitter. They they do a lot of work. UM.

896
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 1: They've got a lot of resources available around bisexuality and

897
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: and they're super awesome and collaborative. UM by Net USA

898
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,000
Speaker 1: is also a great organization that does a lot of

899
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 1: organizing and that and that brings together, you know, people

900
00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: on these issues and there's a lot of advocacy and

901
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 1: so that's a great group. There is a conference in

902
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:51,480
Speaker 1: Minneapolis every year UM for UM for bisexual people. It's

903
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: called the Because Conference and it's been going on for

904
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 1: decades and most people don't know that. And so if

905
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 1: you actually want to go to a BI conference, you

906
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: can do that. There's also gonna be a BI conference

907
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: in San Francisco this October UM, so that's something UM.

908
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:11,120
Speaker 1: And then there's also one of my favorite UM efforts

909
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: around promoting visibility for bisexual people is uh this still

910
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: Bisexual campaign. So if you look up like hashtag still bisexual, UM,

911
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: you'll find videos that people that bisexual people have made

912
00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:29,600
Speaker 1: where they tell their stories through these sort of like

913
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 1: they don't seek They've got like cards that they've written

914
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:35,280
Speaker 1: on and there's music and there. It's a lovely way

915
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:39,080
Speaker 1: to find bisexual people who might be similar to you

916
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:43,240
Speaker 1: because you can search on their website by different um,

917
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: different types of bisexual people, like bisexual women or older

918
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:49,600
Speaker 1: bisexual people, or you know, different kinds of like bisexual

919
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,320
Speaker 1: people of color, different intersections, And I think that that's

920
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 1: a great way to try to find yourself reflected somewhere.

921
00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: It's also a great way to be more visible, like

922
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: if people are like, hey, I want to do something

923
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: to support other bisexual people, and you can do that

924
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: and you might find this that it also supports you

925
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: actually speaking yourself or sharing your story and affirming that.

926
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: It can be a great way to UM to actually

927
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: elevate your own UM feelings about yourself as a bisexual person.

928
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: And UM. The bisexual Dispecsion groups that we have at

929
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,800
Speaker 1: Santa Barbara UM a bunch of us participated. They actually

930
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: like the still bisexual folks came up from l A

931
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: and filmed us, and people in the group have talks

932
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,000
Speaker 1: about how meaningful that wants for them to do that,

933
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: to share that, to get responses from people, honest. So

934
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: I really think that's a very cool effort. Yeah, and

935
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 1: I saw you got your video and one of the

936
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: cards was that you write bisexual haiku. Is that true?

937
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: It is true? I write bisexual hi t I call

938
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: it by two. Here's a bike tou that I've wrote.

939
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: Five month is over and I'm still bisexual. I'm not shocked,

940
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:16,120
Speaker 1: are you? It's so good. So and in my class

941
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: um for the last day of class, I the students

942
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:24,040
Speaker 1: I asked them to write a bi cou to summarize

943
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: something that they learned in the class. And so the

944
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 1: students wrote a bunch of awesome by twos. So I

945
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 1: also tweeted those out, so you'll be able to find

946
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:36,200
Speaker 1: stuff that my amazing students. And of course we had

947
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: to ask about silver Line right, hope, some hope in

948
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: the future. Some projects going on, some amazing projects. I'm

949
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: working on this project with the colleague of mine, Amanda

950
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:52,480
Speaker 1: call it on definitions of bisexuality. UM. So that's one

951
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:56,760
Speaker 1: that we're um, we're working on writing and finishing up.

952
00:59:56,840 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: But I'm in my own research and um, well that's

953
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,360
Speaker 1: of my research. But in my own research is my

954
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 1: new position as an assistant professor. I am doing a

955
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: study on the impact of micro aggression for queer people

956
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:18,280
Speaker 1: of color, um. And with that, I'm also collecting data

957
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: on people, well black queer people, UM, but I'm also

958
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: collecting data on black bisexual people to sort of do

959
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: an interview and get some of their experiences. So I'm

960
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:32,880
Speaker 1: really really excited about this one because one, I'm like

961
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: specifically looking at black queer people, um. And it's how

962
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm starting like this new chapter of my life in

963
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: terms of this new position that I'm in and really

964
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: trying to like establish myself um further with research. So

965
01:00:51,600 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 1: I'm really excited about looking at this concept of microaggression, um,

966
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 1: both in terms of race and in terms of sexual

967
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: orientation as experienced by bisexual people. So I'm still I'm

968
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: still recruiting for that one actually, so it was probably

969
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 1: going to be recruiting for a few more months. UM,

970
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: but I'm so excited to get more people to take

971
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,160
Speaker 1: the survey and sort of start to analyze the results

972
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,000
Speaker 1: from that. I'm I'm really excited about what this is

973
01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: going to look like. I'm part of a group called

974
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: by Law as a Dye Law, and it's a group

975
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 1: of bisexual attorneys who are activists around this issue. And

976
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,120
Speaker 1: we didn't for example, and Amicust briefed the Supreme Court

977
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: during the Supreme Court litigation related to same sex marriage

978
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:46,040
Speaker 1: about making sure that bisexual people were included in the language,

979
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: because much of the language was speaking only about kay

980
01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: and lesbian people and not speaking about the fact that

981
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:58,560
Speaker 1: m bisexuals are also impacted. And so you know, it's

982
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: not just that people who are gay or lesbian um

983
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't have the opportunity to get married. Uh, you know,

984
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 1: only only gay leslieople you know, couldn't get married because

985
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: they u can't get into a different sex marriage. Even

986
01:02:11,880 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 1: for me, as a bisexual person, if I wanted to

987
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: choose that that should also be valid. Even if I

988
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 1: could potentially be in a different sex relationship, I might

989
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,680
Speaker 1: want to choose the same sex relationship. So making sure

990
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: that that language is included is something that we often

991
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:28,400
Speaker 1: are the ones who will submit an antechast brief bring

992
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: up that issue. This also comes up in issues like

993
01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: UM integration cases when people are refugees who made stigmatized

994
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 1: because they are UM, because they've been in UM same

995
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:46,200
Speaker 1: sex relationships, because they're perceived as lgbt Q, and then

996
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 1: sometimes if they're coming in and trying to prove their

997
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: immigration status UM, it could be used against them saying,

998
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 1: for example, you know you're not a lesbian who sigmatized

999
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,440
Speaker 1: because we have proof that you are once in a

1000
01:02:57,520 --> 01:02:59,920
Speaker 1: relationship with a man. Well, that doesn't mean that you're

1001
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:03,040
Speaker 1: an also a bisexual person who may face a lot

1002
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: of stigma for that. I think that it's been an

1003
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: incredibly useful thing for us as a community in the

1004
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: past fifty years in Stonewall UM to fight so hard

1005
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: for same sex marriage the United States, and it's been

1006
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 1: an absolutely amazing civil rights victory. I often speak as

1007
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:22,040
Speaker 1: a lawyer about how it's an amazing story of a

1008
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 1: political movement because going from such a deep level of

1009
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: stigma to relative acceptance of same sex marriage as a

1010
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: done deal in the United States in fifty years is

1011
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:35,280
Speaker 1: just absolutely astonishing. And so it's been incredibly important, I think,

1012
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: and really powerful to fight for same sex marriage. But

1013
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 1: now I'm part of the community of lawyers and activists saying, well,

1014
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 1: hold on, not everybody wants to get married, and marriage

1015
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,560
Speaker 1: is not necessarily the only family form that's worth valuing.

1016
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: Only half of American adults are actually married, and I'm

1017
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:54,080
Speaker 1: interested in finding out more information about what those other

1018
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: kinds of family structures look like, because not everybody UM

1019
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: is getting into marriages were choosing other things, and some

1020
01:04:01,120 --> 01:04:03,040
Speaker 1: other people may have found other kinds of structures that

1021
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 1: work for them. So, for example, I work with platonic

1022
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:09,280
Speaker 1: co parents, and that is situations in which people want

1023
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:12,440
Speaker 1: to be biological parents, but rather than dating that parenting

1024
01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 1: relationship on romance, UM finding a close, committed friend to

1025
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: do that with. And I think that's particularly useful in

1026
01:04:20,040 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: situations in which you might have a gay man that

1027
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:25,280
Speaker 1: wants to be a biological parent, that doesn't have or

1028
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,520
Speaker 1: want to spend hundred fifty thousand dollars on an egg

1029
01:04:28,560 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: go or in surrogacy process, which is how much to

1030
01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: cost produxim in the United States right now, and maybe

1031
01:04:33,360 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: that client of mind, who might be a forty year

1032
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:37,880
Speaker 1: old woman that doesn't want to just get married to

1033
01:04:37,960 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: a guy she's been dating from match dot com for

1034
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: three months, UM to have a baby and then get divorced,

1035
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:45,160
Speaker 1: because I see those divorce clients as well, UM, and

1036
01:04:45,280 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 1: instead think, how about instead of rushing into a relationship

1037
01:04:49,640 --> 01:04:51,720
Speaker 1: UM to have a child, I could do this with

1038
01:04:51,840 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: my gay best friend from college and have actually a

1039
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,520
Speaker 1: lot more stability in that kind of relationship. UM. And

1040
01:04:57,600 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: in addition, I work with U people who are doing

1041
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,200
Speaker 1: platonic co parenting with maybe a lesbian couple and a

1042
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,600
Speaker 1: gay couple who decide that you know, UM, a woman

1043
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:11,400
Speaker 1: from the lesbian couple and a UM, a man from

1044
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: the male same six couple are going to get together

1045
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: and UM find a way to platonically do an egg

1046
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: baster or go to a fertility clinic process in order

1047
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,560
Speaker 1: to be biological parents together. And then maybe all four

1048
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:25,640
Speaker 1: are going to co parent, or maybe three people are

1049
01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 1: going to co parent, so that it's a couple and

1050
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: an extra person or two couples. UM. And then finally

1051
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:34,120
Speaker 1: I work with people who are polyamorous, which is the

1052
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,200
Speaker 1: idea that you can be in more than one loving

1053
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:42,200
Speaker 1: relationship and with full consensual honesty with everyone involved, and

1054
01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 1: not just that you can sort of have the open

1055
01:05:44,840 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: relationship and swinger idea of being able to have maybe

1056
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 1: a close primary relationship UM and the only person you

1057
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: have romanced with, but then also be able to have

1058
01:05:54,280 --> 01:05:57,360
Speaker 1: other sexual relationships. Polyamory is the idea that you're at

1059
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,919
Speaker 1: least open to more than one committed relationship at times.

1060
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:03,520
Speaker 1: Sometimes in my community with my clients, that's three people

1061
01:06:03,560 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 1: who are in e committed relationship together as a triad

1062
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: or thruffle, or four people who are excited relationship together

1063
01:06:09,800 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 1: as a quad and UM that's I think also a

1064
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,720
Speaker 1: really valid family form. And I work to support people

1065
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,919
Speaker 1: by helping them create co parenting agreements or agreements about

1066
01:06:19,920 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 1: how they want to share their finances that really talk

1067
01:06:22,440 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: them through a lot of the potential challenges, to help

1068
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:27,760
Speaker 1: them make plans in advance and make sure that all

1069
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,080
Speaker 1: of their intentions are on the same page. And I

1070
01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:32,560
Speaker 1: think those conversations are actually more important than the contract

1071
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: you end up with at the end. UM. I think

1072
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 1: it's a really powerful way to support other kinds of families.

1073
01:06:38,160 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 1: And I am actually myself polyamorous. My husband and I

1074
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:45,600
Speaker 1: have been together for twelve years. We're both bisexual, and UM,

1075
01:06:46,080 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 1: we're in a polyamorous relationship, and for us, that's part

1076
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:52,800
Speaker 1: of our expression of being bisexual people. I was really

1077
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: tormented in my mid twenties, um, thinking I'm going to

1078
01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:57,560
Speaker 1: have to choose to be with a woman for the

1079
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 1: rest of my life. I'm going to choose to be

1080
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: with the man for the rest of life. And it

1081
01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: was just this agonizing choice for me because it felt

1082
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 1: like it was gonna be really difficult. Um. It felt like,

1083
01:07:06,360 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: are you going to only eat sweet foods forever or

1084
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:11,560
Speaker 1: savory foods forever? And I was like, no, I can't. Um.

1085
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: And for me, that's part of an expression of my bisexuality.

1086
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: But there is sometimes is a stereotype that bisexual people

1087
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: are sexually promiscuous or that we can't be monogamous, and

1088
01:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely not accurate. Um, this is something

1089
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 1: that works for me, and there are a good number

1090
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 1: of people who are bisexual who are also polyamorous or

1091
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: otherwise non monogamous as part of an expression of their bisexuality,

1092
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,160
Speaker 1: but that certainly is not for everyone, and even being

1093
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: polyamorous does not imply sexual promiscuity. I'm somebody who has

1094
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 1: a few ongoing connections in addion to my partnership, including

1095
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,880
Speaker 1: a woman I've been involved with for five years, and

1096
01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 1: that's a more full expression of who I am as

1097
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 1: a bisexual woman. And it's something that my spouse and

1098
01:07:54,480 --> 01:07:57,560
Speaker 1: husband fully celebrates and I celebrate in him as well. UM.

1099
01:07:57,760 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: So those are family forms that have not been traditionally

1100
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:06,480
Speaker 1: supported by a legal services organization. Many manical services organizations

1101
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: that work with lgbt people primarily work with lesbian or

1102
01:08:10,920 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 1: gay couples, you know, female same sex couples or male

1103
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 1: same sex couples, or work with transgender people to get

1104
01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:19,160
Speaker 1: name change documents. But I was interested in supporting a

1105
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: fuller range of what lgbt Q families can look like,

1106
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:28,960
Speaker 1: which can sometimes um involve kinship units such as polyamorous people. UM.

1107
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 1: I think it's also valid to make connections between these

1108
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:34,800
Speaker 1: kinds of queer families and people who might not think

1109
01:08:34,840 --> 01:08:38,719
Speaker 1: of themselves as queer or lgbt Q, such as people

1110
01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:41,960
Speaker 1: who form kinship networks in the urban black community, where

1111
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,839
Speaker 1: there's communities of aunties who get together and are supporting

1112
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,080
Speaker 1: each other and raising children. There's a lot of other

1113
01:08:47,160 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: really valid ways to create family. UM. You know, if

1114
01:08:50,760 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: my sister and I wanted to buy a house together,

1115
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: and raise children together, and pay taxes together. Why shouldn't

1116
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:00,280
Speaker 1: we be allowed to use that relationship any less salid

1117
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 1: than two people who were in love and got married

1118
01:09:02,400 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 1: in Vegas last week. UM. I think that it's really

1119
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 1: an important conversation now for us as an except after

1120
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:11,439
Speaker 1: same sex marriage, to think about those other kinds of

1121
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:17,040
Speaker 1: family forms as well. So there's a lot of times

1122
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 1: that we are not even paying attention to the fact

1123
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 1: that there are bisexual people and we're not gathering the

1124
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:25,800
Speaker 1: right data. So one of the things that we can

1125
01:09:25,880 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 1: do is, you know, in terms of policy, UM, when

1126
01:09:30,040 --> 01:09:32,960
Speaker 1: we're gathering data about people, and we're gathering data about

1127
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: sexual orientation, then we should make sure that we don't

1128
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:41,280
Speaker 1: just have like lesbian, gay, bisexual as one category. That

1129
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:44,800
Speaker 1: we really need to break that apart and understand bisexual

1130
01:09:44,880 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: people um uh separately from the way we understand lesliean

1131
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: gay people. Like there's some overlap that there's also some distinctions. UM.

1132
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,960
Speaker 1: So that's one thing. Uh. There's also um ways in

1133
01:09:56,040 --> 01:09:59,040
Speaker 1: which we want to make sure that we're providing services

1134
01:09:59,400 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 1: um at that are and and doing you know, putting

1135
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:08,000
Speaker 1: resources um into the needs of bisexual people. Proportionate to

1136
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,200
Speaker 1: both the number of bisexual people in the population and

1137
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: the level of need of bisexual people, which is pretty high.

1138
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:19,519
Speaker 1: So when we looked at like funding um at NIA,

1139
01:10:20,160 --> 01:10:23,880
Speaker 1: for example, on the National Introduce of Health around UM

1140
01:10:24,040 --> 01:10:27,840
Speaker 1: sexual Orication, you would think that based on the number

1141
01:10:27,880 --> 01:10:31,600
Speaker 1: of bisexual people and the need, at least half of

1142
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:35,840
Speaker 1: those funds would be going to study bisexual people and

1143
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: services for bisexual people. And and we're not seeing that.

1144
01:10:40,320 --> 01:10:42,519
Speaker 1: I have to say, there's some really incurgent stuff going

1145
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: on in terms of UM you know ni ah uh

1146
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: collaborating with with researchers to recognize that need and try

1147
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 1: to UM identify kind of what the agenda for bisexual

1148
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,360
Speaker 1: health research needs to be so that there are some

1149
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 1: really good things happening around around that. But UM, but

1150
01:11:03,439 --> 01:11:05,720
Speaker 1: some of those kinds of policies around what kind of

1151
01:11:05,800 --> 01:11:08,400
Speaker 1: data if we collect, what kinds of resources are used,

1152
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:10,600
Speaker 1: And then the last thing is what kinds of protections

1153
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,559
Speaker 1: we have for people. So UM for example, if someone

1154
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 1: is you know, speaking asylum in the United States because

1155
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,679
Speaker 1: they're persecuted in the country that they're coming from based

1156
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:27,160
Speaker 1: on their sexual orientation, and they're bisexual, then then if

1157
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 1: they are speaking asylent like they might get told, oh,

1158
01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:33,560
Speaker 1: we'll just make sure you don't get into a relationship

1159
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:37,680
Speaker 1: with somebody of of another gender because you know, you

1160
01:11:37,720 --> 01:11:41,640
Speaker 1: should just say you're gay, um, because you know otherwise,

1161
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, we we won't necessarily be able to provide

1162
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:48,799
Speaker 1: those protections for you. And and you know that doesn't

1163
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,240
Speaker 1: really work for people because they you know, they're still

1164
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: being just as persecuted based on being bisexual, you know,

1165
01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,439
Speaker 1: in another country. And so saying we're not going to

1166
01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:04,960
Speaker 1: acknowledge that bisexual quality as a foundation for your persecution, uh,

1167
01:12:05,200 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 1: just is denying the reality of their That brings us

1168
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,920
Speaker 1: to the end of our two partner on bisexuality, and

1169
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,600
Speaker 1: we hope that it has been as informative for you

1170
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: as it was for us, that we could do our

1171
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 1: teeny podcast part in chipping away at some stigma and

1172
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:27,840
Speaker 1: that maybe some of you feel less alone and less

1173
01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 1: confused or okay with being confused. Right. So with that,

1174
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:34,640
Speaker 1: I wanted to make sure that we've gotten all of

1175
01:12:34,680 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: the resources from the individuals, and they are They have

1176
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 1: been gracious and sending it to me through emails and

1177
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:43,479
Speaker 1: out sending it to us through emails and through social media,

1178
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:45,680
Speaker 1: so we will definitely be posting that as well, if

1179
01:12:45,720 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 1: you guys will look for It'll both be on Twitter,

1180
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,960
Speaker 1: Facebook and instagrams. Yes, yes, yes. And if you have

1181
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: any any works that you'd like to send us, any

1182
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:57,519
Speaker 1: resources you'd like to send us, any by coos you'd

1183
01:12:57,600 --> 01:13:01,320
Speaker 1: like to send us, please you You can email us

1184
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,639
Speaker 1: at Stuff Media, mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com.

1185
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:06,640
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never

1186
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:10,240
Speaker 1: Told You and on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks

1187
01:13:10,320 --> 01:13:14,640
Speaker 1: again to our fabulous interview amazing people. Thank you, thank you,

1188
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,200
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. Thank you for going to Twitter

1189
01:13:17,280 --> 01:13:19,760
Speaker 1: stalk you and social media stalk you in a good way,

1190
01:13:19,840 --> 01:13:21,559
Speaker 1: in a good way, in a good way. Thanks as

1191
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:25,720
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to

1192
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I've Never Told Your protection of

1193
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 1: Iheartradios How Stuff Works For more podcast from iHeart Radio

1194
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 1: is the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or where have

1195
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows