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Speaker 1: We became partners on the crisis response team in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety four in preparation for the nineteen ninety six Olympic

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Speaker 1: Games in Atlanta. By as we call her, was twice married,

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Speaker 1: had grown children, and was solid in her career. I

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Speaker 1: was single ish while it was still around. But we

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Speaker 1: weren't married. We'd never been married, and we had no children.

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Speaker 1: They was sixteen years older than me. We were opposites

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Speaker 1: in many ways, but we were alike in the ways

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Speaker 1: that mattered the most, our family fighting for justice, being

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Speaker 1: advocates for victims. But still with that age gap and

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Speaker 1: where we were in life and our careers. We weren't

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Speaker 1: obvious friends, but that partnership worked. We balanced each other,

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Speaker 1: We respected each other, We had a great time with

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Speaker 1: each other. We laughed ninety percent of the time and

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Speaker 1: worked about ten We worked things like the Adamsville slay

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Speaker 1: in Nicole Smith, the Shotgun House double Murder, the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: and Nine to eleven. Our guests today know a little

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Speaker 1: bit about partnership, and they Shorelord know about laughing. They

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Speaker 1: came from different careers, both good ones, solid ones. One

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Speaker 1: is a reporter, one is a detective. Now historically they

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Speaker 1: have not always trusted each other. That first amendment can

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Speaker 1: be challenging sometimes law enforcement sometimes they don't want things leaked,

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Speaker 1: they don't want information out, and sometimes that reporter wants

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Speaker 1: to be the first one to tell people information. Today,

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Speaker 1: we've got two of the best, Jessica Nole and Todd mccombas.

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Speaker 1: They are not your typical weekly true crime podcast. They

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Speaker 1: are friends. You can tell it from the second they

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Speaker 1: start talking. They balance each other, they play off each other,

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Speaker 1: they laugh, but when they go to work, it's like

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Speaker 1: nothing you've ever seen. So this is what happens when

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Speaker 1: you pair an award winning investigative journalist and a veteran

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Speaker 1: detective slash comedian. You heard me. Now, I've worked with

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Speaker 1: tons of detectives that thought they were comedians, but Todd

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Speaker 1: is a real one. Jessica and Todd, welcome to Zone seven.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Cheryl. We're so excited to be here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, now we need to change our podcast description to

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Speaker 3: verbatim what you just said. That was remarkable. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's the truth. And here's the thing. Some people say, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you have podcasters on your show, are

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Speaker 1: you really working a case? Well, we're going to get

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Speaker 1: to that in a minute. But the short answer is yes.

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Speaker 1: You know, the title that somebody has has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with whether or not they can solve a cold case.

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Speaker 1: And I preach all the time, civilians solve cold cases

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Speaker 1: all the time. The person that found the card for

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Speaker 1: the DC Sniper was a truck driver. The person that

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Speaker 1: solved the Zodiac puzzle was a teacher. So yeah, they

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Speaker 1: are in my zone, Saven. I promise you they can

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Speaker 1: solve a case like nobody else. So look, I want

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Speaker 1: to go right off the bat and get y'all to

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Speaker 1: talk about y'all's teamwork, because it is so incredible to

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Speaker 1: hear y'all when y'all are just doing your natural banter

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Speaker 1: but at the same time knowing you're funneling through a case.

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Speaker 1: I've never had a negative experience or partnership with anybody

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Speaker 1: in the media, whether it's Jessica Nole or Karen Greer, whoever.

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Speaker 1: They have always been tremendous people to me and a

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Speaker 1: great tool, especially for cold cases. Our worlds, todd are

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Speaker 1: not that different. Jessica's got confidential in fully mors, She's

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Speaker 1: got people she can call for a favor. She knows

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Speaker 1: exactly how to ask which question and when and how right.

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Speaker 1: She's such a gift for you and you are a

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Speaker 1: gift for her on these cases. But again it's not

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Speaker 1: like we don't have a baseline of understanding. That to

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Speaker 1: me is fun to watch with y'all too, because she's

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Speaker 1: got a phone that has got a goal mine in it,

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Speaker 1: and so to you. So you know those people that

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Speaker 1: y'all can reach and those favors you can call in,

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Speaker 1: and then Jessica knows how to find this person that

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Speaker 1: may not talk to you, And that I preach all

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Speaker 1: the time to young detectives. Karen Greer can get somebody

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Speaker 1: to go on camera and make a statement that will

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Speaker 1: not go talk to that detective, but the detective can

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Speaker 1: watch the six o'clock news and hear it.

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Speaker 2: That's actually something I do want to point out with

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Speaker 2: the partnership with Todd, is, you know, working as a

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Speaker 2: journalist a lot most tis I'm working solo. But it's

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Speaker 2: been so great to be able to be like, all right,

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Speaker 2: we need to contact this person. Is it going to

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Speaker 2: be better coming from a retired detective or is it

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Speaker 2: going to become better from a journalist? Is a door

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Speaker 2: knock going to be better with a guy that looks,

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Speaker 2: you know, like he's the muscle of the group. Or

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Speaker 2: is it going to look better if it's this short,

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Speaker 2: little blonde that's unassuming and you don't have any problems,

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Speaker 2: you know, seeing that, you're like, oh, she's not going

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Speaker 2: to you know, harm me in any way or ask

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Speaker 2: me tough questions. So we've been able to play off

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Speaker 2: of each other to where whatever we think is going

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Speaker 2: to work best to get the information that we need

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Speaker 2: for the case. That's the avenue we go.

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Speaker 1: And you see that a lot.

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Speaker 2: I think, in especially towards the end of Undetermined, we

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Speaker 2: started to really hone in on that.

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Speaker 1: The other reality is you've got some news organizations that

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Speaker 1: have equipment that some police departments don't have. Not every

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Speaker 1: police department's got a helicopter over police department's got drones.

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Speaker 1: So if you can tap into those as friends and say, look,

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Speaker 1: we've got a missing child, can you help us, that

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Speaker 1: to me is critical in those partnerships and those friendships

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Speaker 1: if you make them are great. Here's the other reality.

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Speaker 1: I don't have six weeks that I can go and

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Speaker 1: find a paper trail and look through old archives and

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Speaker 1: look through old newspapers. But Jessica can and she can

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Speaker 1: get that information and tell me, wait a minute, this

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Speaker 1: is what he said in nineteen eighty seven, this is

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Speaker 1: what he said in nineteen ninety four, and that is

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Speaker 1: very different from what he said in twenty thirteen. And

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Speaker 1: I just might go, hey, that's really great work. So

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Speaker 1: when something breaks, who am I going to call first

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Speaker 1: to let have the scoop? I'm gonna let Jessica have it.

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Speaker 1: But she brought me something that might change this whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So and the other thing is, y'all can travel a

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Speaker 1: lot of times. Your chief is not going to let

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Speaker 1: you go to Luluisi to interview somebody and then say, well, hey,

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Speaker 1: I got to go to Boston. It's not gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: But Jessica can go talking go yeah.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't agree more like I first of all, I

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Speaker 3: never wanted to make enemies, definitely with anybody in the

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Speaker 3: media when I was a detective, because you don't need that.

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Speaker 3: But I just never had any bad experiences, Like I

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Speaker 3: understood the concepts of be careful, you know, like you

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Speaker 3: could cross an unethical journalist at some point or a

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Speaker 3: broadcaster of some sort, and they might tell you it's

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Speaker 3: off the record, and then screw you later. But that

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Speaker 3: never happened to me, and until it did, I was like,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to give everybody the benefit of the doubt

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Speaker 3: because I always treated it like we're on the same team. Like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're trying to get ratings in views and things like that,

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Speaker 3: because that helps you keep your job and improve your status.

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Speaker 3: But also, you wouldn't be taking this job if you

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Speaker 3: didn't care about victims and the outcomes of these cases.

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Speaker 3: Because much like you're not going to get rich doing

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Speaker 3: what you're doing, you're in it because of the passion

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Speaker 3: behind what you're doing and the good that you're doing

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Speaker 3: for your community and the people involved. So there was

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Speaker 3: always that mutual respect for.

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Speaker 1: Me one hundred percent. Get in touch with Jesk if

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Speaker 1: you can, I'm just telling you. And now that she's

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Speaker 1: got Todd, well, let me just say this, Todd, you

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Speaker 1: bring this grit to you know of understanding from street level,

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Speaker 1: that pulse of the gutter, and you're a revered detective.

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Speaker 1: But the thing that I appreciate I think the most

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Speaker 1: about you is your humor. But you know there's truth

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Speaker 1: in humor, and you bring such a real concept. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of folks that when they start talking about

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Speaker 1: their career, they only talk about, well, this is when

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Speaker 1: I got this metal and this is when I got

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Speaker 1: this accolade. Not you, brother, you got God and country.

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Speaker 1: To listen to an episode of When You Lost a weapon.

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Speaker 4: That's what I Oh, my god, I have never laughed

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Speaker 4: so hard in my life, And I thought, this has

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Speaker 4: got to be the most self assured man I've ever

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Speaker 4: listened to in my life because he's telling you something

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Speaker 4: that he ain't gonna get a medal for.

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Speaker 1: But it just helps everybody to go, wait a minute,

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Speaker 1: we all might have a hiccuugh, we might all do

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Speaker 1: something that is so incredibly human that it's just nice

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Speaker 1: to hear so again, having that balance to me, having

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Speaker 1: that I'm real, I'm a person. I was there doing

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Speaker 1: something brave and just you know, I was the man

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Speaker 1: in that moment of all the people that are fearless

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Speaker 1: behind me, I'm the one that's gonna kick that door

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Speaker 1: in tell everybody what happened to talk.

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Speaker 3: Let me add that, uh, that wasn't the only time

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Speaker 3: I've lost a gun, but it's the most entertaining story.

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Speaker 2: He was telling me. A second story, and I said, Tod,

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Speaker 2: did you have a holster?

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Speaker 3: Because I was understanding this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, hey, Jessica, yeah that wasn't our job, you know,

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Speaker 1: far being for us to question, but did you have

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Speaker 1: a hole? That was hilarious.

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Speaker 3: It's so strange because I ended my career on this. Basically,

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Speaker 3: we were a mini swat team, you know, that just

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Speaker 3: hunted down fugitives with our little four person team. And

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Speaker 3: you know, we we had all the SWAT credentials and

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Speaker 3: training and kick doors and all that. But up to

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Speaker 3: that point, I mean I always worked in for most

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Speaker 3: of my career, in covert investigations, undercover and things like that,

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Speaker 3: and most times I wasn't carrying a gun, so I

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Speaker 3: got kind of used to, you know, not like your

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Speaker 3: regular cop, like always having a gun on me and

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Speaker 3: where this and all that. Oh yeah, occasionally I might,

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Speaker 3: you know, when I'm putting other stuff in my car,

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Speaker 3: put it on the hood of my car and drive

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Speaker 3: fifty miles down the road. But in this one particular incident,

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Speaker 3: I you know, I'd worked like nineteen years up to

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Speaker 3: that point, and I'm on this little Fugitive Test Force

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Speaker 3: swat team thing, and I had always kind of admired

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Speaker 3: people that wore an ankle gun, like in movies and stuff,

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Speaker 3: you know, you'd see that, And I was like, I

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Speaker 3: should get an ankle gun. Why have I never gotten

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Speaker 3: an ankle gun? And I finally got one, and I

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Speaker 3: made the mistake of they didn't have a holster four

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Speaker 3: of five shot Smith and Wesson thirty eight revolver, which

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Speaker 3: is what I got to carry on my ankle but

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Speaker 3: they had one for a three eighty semi automatic in

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Speaker 3: their similar size, so I thought I was okay. And

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Speaker 3: when long story short, we go to serve our first

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Speaker 3: warrant of the day and it was a no knock

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Speaker 3: on a trailer and I kicked this door, and unfortunately

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Speaker 3: I had put the ankle gun on my right leg,

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Speaker 3: which is my kicking leg, and I was the door

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Speaker 3: kicker that day. And I guess so at some point

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Speaker 3: going from my car to creeping up on this little

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Speaker 3: stupid the trailer, that ankle gun had to slodged from

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Speaker 3: the holster was very loose. It was just kind of

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Speaker 3: held in there wedge between the holster and the cuff

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Speaker 3: of my pants. And I didn't know that when I

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Speaker 3: kicked this door, man, it shot out like a rocket

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Speaker 3: fla from underneath my pants, and I see, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I had smashed the trailer doors go really easy anyway,

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Speaker 3: But I had smashed this trailer door like best kick

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Speaker 3: of my career. And I see a flash of the

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Speaker 3: bad guy who has startled when I kicked the door,

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Speaker 3: run like toward the kitchen, and I see my gun

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Speaker 3: going right at him, like the right in his direction,

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Speaker 3: hit his linolium floor and skid. But I had kicked

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Speaker 3: the door so hard it went back and hit the

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Speaker 3: wall and bounce back and shut to right in my face.

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Speaker 3: So I go from seeing that flash of my gun

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Speaker 3: heading toward this fugitive to the door shutting to my face,

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Speaker 3: and I'm just panting for a second. I'm stopped to

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Speaker 3: my sergeant and I had the stack of guys behind

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Speaker 3: me like go, go go, what are you waiting for? Go?

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Speaker 3: And finally my Sergeant's like, go get to the door,

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, just wait, he's got a gun. My

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Speaker 3: sergeant was like, how do you know it's like because

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Speaker 3: it's mine. I wish I was creative enough to make

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Speaker 3: this up. But he was literally laying on the floor

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Speaker 3: giving up like I was trying to trick him, and

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Speaker 3: he was like, I'd not falling for your gun across

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Speaker 3: the floor bullshit. And I was like, oh, all right, thank.

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Speaker 1: God, that is the greatest thing I've ever heard. And

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Speaker 1: you know, that guy was sitting in jail going, you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna believe this. He just threw his gun at me.

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Speaker 3: Look, I'm an idiot. I'm gonna pick it up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like I'm an idiot, I ain't falling to that.

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Speaker 1: That's great. So for all of you that might have

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Speaker 1: had a bad day at work, there you go and

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Speaker 1: welcome to my world.

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Speaker 3: Right absolutely, And you're right, those are the stories I

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Speaker 3: like to share because you know, we all had our

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Speaker 3: good days and bad days. But you know, I'd rather

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Speaker 3: humanize the job a little bit because everybody has moments

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Speaker 3: like that at their job where you goof something up

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Speaker 3: or whatever, and you know, as long as nobody got

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Speaker 3: hurt at the end of it, you know, it's to

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Speaker 3: laugh about it afterward and take the ridicule from all

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Speaker 3: your partners for the next two weeks. It really grounds

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Speaker 3: you and makes you realize, hey, we're just people out

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Speaker 3: here trying to get by like everybody else, and dumb

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Speaker 3: shit's going to happen, and so those are the stories

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Speaker 3: I like to share instead of going over accolades and

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Speaker 3: things like that that.

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Speaker 1: Could be a whole episode by itself. Just give Todd

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Speaker 1: the mic and let's humanize the job.

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Speaker 2: Him being undercover for so long as he was has

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Speaker 2: really been super beneficial. When we're out in the field

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Speaker 2: investigating something when we were doing well essentially a door knock,

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Speaker 2: but we didn't have to knock on a door because

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Speaker 2: he was actually watching us from his truck, And when

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Speaker 2: we got out of ours, he got out of his

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Speaker 2: and Todd was able to see things that I didn't see.

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Speaker 2: So the ballsy Jessica goes up to this guy, like

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Speaker 2: ready to ask questions, you know, boom boom boom, and

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Speaker 2: Todd's like pulls me back a little and starts getting

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Speaker 2: in front of me to ask him questions because he

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Speaker 2: saw the man put a gun behind him when he

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Speaker 2: got out of the truck that I didn't see. And

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Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, Todd, when you hear his voice,

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Speaker 2: he's Indiana Midwest, but he's not Southern all of a sudden,

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Speaker 2: because of where we are for this particular encounter breaks

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Speaker 2: into the southern drawl of a sudden, and I'm just

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Speaker 2: looking at like, where is this voice coming from. He's like, hey, y'all,

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Speaker 2: he sounded like you Cheryl's voice, and I'm like, fantastic,

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Speaker 2: what is happening here? Because you know, we just kind

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Speaker 2: of tried to fit in with where we were and

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Speaker 2: it didn't work. We didn't get it, we didn't get

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Speaker 2: an interview, but we got out of their lives, so

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Speaker 2: that was good.

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Speaker 3: Right away. I was like, hey, you know, I like

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Speaker 3: malicious too. Hey fuck the government.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not a stereotype at all. Okay, that's so funny.

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Speaker 1: But again, undercover, you got a morph to what the

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Speaker 1: situation is, and he's got that experience, and again, what

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Speaker 1: a gift to get you out of there.

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Speaker 3: I did have to kind of intervene and talk and

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Speaker 3: keep talking over her and get between because again, this

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Speaker 3: girl's fearless. She was like ready to go inside his

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Speaker 3: house for coffee and get to the bottom of why

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Speaker 3: he might know about these persons of interest. And now

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Speaker 3: I was like, you know, we don't want to go

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Speaker 3: in there. Can we might end up in some little

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Speaker 3: hole in the backyard chain to a you know, to

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Speaker 3: an eyebolt For the next several months and uh so, yeah,

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Speaker 3: sometimes you know it's good, like I feel protective of her.

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Speaker 3: She doesn't need it most times. But you know, I

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Speaker 3: was like, Okay, if if this goes bad, you know,

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Speaker 3: me and this hill billy are going over the side

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Speaker 3: of this hill.

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Speaker 2: Oh and by the way, when we got back to

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Speaker 2: we got back to the truck, I said, Todd, where's

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Speaker 2: your gun? Because I always make sure that he's packing

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Speaker 2: when we go do things like this. It was in

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Speaker 2: the glove compartment, see the worst. Yeah, And I understand

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Speaker 2: that this makes me sound like I don't have awareness

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Speaker 2: of my surroundings.

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Speaker 3: But I actually really do.

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Speaker 2: It's just I was so focused on we got to

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Speaker 2: talk to this guy and find out what he knows.

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Speaker 2: And we already knew he had been watching us for

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Speaker 2: some time, and I'm like, let's do it.

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Speaker 3: Let's get out there, let's get it.

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Speaker 2: And I my blinders completely on. So it's great to

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Speaker 2: have a partner who can see things that you can't

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Speaker 2: see too.

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Speaker 3: That's an important thing. Like that's a real cop thing, Cheryl.

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Speaker 3: You'll know this, like when you go win as a

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Speaker 3: two person unit to first engage somebody, just you know,

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Speaker 3: an interview or whatever the scenario, one person's the main

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Speaker 3: talker and the other is basically security. That other person

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Speaker 3: scanning and always assessing for threats and things like that,

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Speaker 3: and it's an important dynamic to you know, that's what

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Speaker 3: keeps everybody safe. And so I always hit that mode.

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Speaker 3: But that time I was like, Okay, I don't want

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Speaker 3: her talking, Beau. I'm going to talk right back to

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Speaker 3: our car as quickly as possible. Let's get out of there.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because I tell people all the time,

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Speaker 1: women sometimes almost naturally focus on certain aspects of a person.

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Speaker 1: Men don't necessarily do that. But if you have two

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Speaker 1: people assessing differently, naturally, you're not going to miss anything.

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Speaker 1: So y'all might leave somewhere and you might say, God,

333
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 1: that was a really nice guy, and Jessica's like, well,

334
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 1: he was completely lying the whole time. Didn't you see

335
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,320
Speaker 1: his shoes? And you'll be like, his shoes, Yeah, he

336
00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,040
Speaker 1: said he was an investment banker, but he had on

337
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 1: fifteen dollars shoes from Walmart. That's never going to happen.

338
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,879
Speaker 1: And then he's got a you know, Cassio watch on.

339
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,679
Speaker 1: So nothing about him rang true for Jessica, where you

340
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,719
Speaker 1: might have just been focused on his face and his

341
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Speaker 1: hands to make sure nothing was going to go wrong.

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Speaker 1: So again, both of those things irrelevant. But y'all, I

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Speaker 1: think we have got such a rare opportunity having both

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00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 1: of y'all here and talking about y'all's process and talking

345
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Speaker 1: about the teamwork that I just want to put in

346
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,080
Speaker 1: the universe that we have an idea, the three of us,

347
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,159
Speaker 1: and the idea is for the three of us to

348
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Speaker 1: pick a case and kind of work on it. And

349
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Speaker 1: I picked a case, and I want everybody to hear

350
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,200
Speaker 1: me when I say just a little about the case

351
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:04,639
Speaker 1: that I picked. Three of us do not have police reports, photographs,

352
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 1: a family member contact, a witness located. We don't even

353
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,280
Speaker 1: know whether or not evidence has been preserved. We don't

354
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 1: know if there's DNA, we don't know if it's had

355
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:21,119
Speaker 1: a chain of custody. Almost zero is on the internet,

356
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: and to our knowledge, there's no similar transactions. So I thought, well,

357
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,120
Speaker 1: that'd be a pretty good one to test the investigative

358
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 1: skills of these two folks. So when we first talked,

359
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 1: they were game on. They were all about it, as you,

360
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,159
Speaker 1: I think can already understand how they are and how

361
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,359
Speaker 1: they operate, and now they want to help people and

362
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 1: then tell a really good story. So Jessica, you want

363
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,320
Speaker 1: to take it from here and just kind of tell

364
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Speaker 1: everybody the case and how we're going to maybe try

365
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,400
Speaker 1: to formulate a plan and how we're going to proceed

366
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Speaker 1: from here.

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Speaker 2: We've decided to look at the murder and raise of

368
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,439
Speaker 2: Anne Ledger. This is a cold case from nineteen eighty seven.

369
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,439
Speaker 2: She was killed in January of nineteen eighty seven in

370
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,320
Speaker 2: Sandy Springs, Georgia, which is your neck of the woods,

371
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 2: but also was where we met. And I worked for

372
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,280
Speaker 2: numerous years in journalism working on cold cases, so I'm

373
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 2: familiar with this area. A few things that we know

374
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 2: based off of one news report that you sent us,

375
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Speaker 2: and we know that she was found inside her apartment.

376
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Speaker 2: She was a special education teacher and a coworker, and

377
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 2: her mom happened upon her because she didn't show up

378
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,480
Speaker 2: at work and she was found dead in her own bedroom,

379
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 2: in her bed. She had been raped and strangled the

380
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:50,160
Speaker 2: night before. You know, starting from ground zero on this one.

381
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,160
Speaker 2: First things first is, well, Todd and I actually go

382
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 2: with this two different ways, And my first thing is

383
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: all right, let's start requesting as much as we can

384
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,680
Speaker 2: on this case. You know, we're looking at a thirty

385
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 2: plus year old cold case. Forty years almost The likelihood

386
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 2: that we can get more than just an initial police

387
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 2: report is pretty good sometimes with an older cold case

388
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 2: like this, So I go all out. I will ask

389
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,080
Speaker 2: for everything I can think of. I will ask for

390
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: the whole case file, including but not limited to, and

391
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 2: start listing everything that I want. We had also found

392
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,680
Speaker 2: out initially she had had her apartment broken into a

393
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 2: couple of times prior to her murder.

394
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Speaker 1: And wasn't that a moment where you just kind of

395
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: went hold on a minute.

396
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,520
Speaker 2: And the things that were removed from her apartment at

397
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: those break ins, certainly we're telling to potential involvement in

398
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 2: her subsequent death. And so I also wanted to request

399
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: those case that those reports, because they she had reported them.

400
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:59,440
Speaker 2: So that's where I began, Whereas Todd goes into newspaper

401
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 2: archive mode, which also includes an obituary, which is where

402
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,719
Speaker 2: you can find family members that can speak on her behalf,

403
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 2: and start going that direction.

404
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 3: Without going into too many specifics yet, because we're early

405
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 3: on in this thing, we were talked about the importance

406
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 3: of relationships with people in the media from law enforcement

407
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 3: or any kind of investigator perspective sometimes in these cold cases.

408
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 3: And this is what first intrigued me about the case,

409
00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 3: because you slyly put that challenge out there, Cheryl, like,

410
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 3: there's nothing that you can google on this case. It's

411
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 3: just it's void of the Internet. And that was true

412
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,360
Speaker 3: because the whole time you were talking, I was googling

413
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 3: my ass off over there. So right away, you know,

414
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: it's like, challenge it's on. This is going to be fun.

415
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: And newspaper archives are an incredible resource and sometimes until

416
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: you can get copse of those redacted police reports, or

417
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 3: if you're even fortunate enough to get them, sometimes the

418
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 3: only information that you have to go on are these

419
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 3: media archives, newspaper articles and things like that, because we're

420
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 3: talking nineteen eighty seven, so it predates the Internet, and

421
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 3: we've were fortunate enough to find a lot of things.

422
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: And you know, the first thought is, let's get a

423
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 3: layer of the landscape. Let's go to that this time

424
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:31,879
Speaker 3: window and to this part of the world, this specific

425
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 3: area of the country, and let's google some keywords about

426
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 3: this crime and see if that triggers any others that

427
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 3: are like it, and we were able to find some

428
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 3: interesting stuff to start a focused direction for other records requests.

429
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 3: For Jessica.

430
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,520
Speaker 2: You put this request together and I word them very

431
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: specifically for a reason, because they can come back with

432
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 2: one word wrong and be like, Nope, we're denying you

433
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 2: and give us, you know, some shoddy reason. But it's

434
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: when you get something that's denied that shouldn't be denied

435
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: and they try to give you a reason that isn't

436
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: within the law of public records, and I have to

437
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 2: go and I had to find the law and the situation,

438
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: the and the statute number, and I had to find

439
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:35,160
Speaker 2: all that and put it in a very professional email

440
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: and send it back to them to let them know

441
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,320
Speaker 2: I too know the law, so give me what I

442
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: asked for. I hate to send those emails, and I

443
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 2: will be nice for the first couple, but I will

444
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:48,480
Speaker 2: tell you, you know, I'm working on a couple of

445
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: cases right now where I'm to the point where it's

446
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: not nice anymore. And and it's like, you know, what

447
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 2: if you're if you're not going to send them to me,

448
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 2: let me know what you're doing on the case, because

449
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear it.

450
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, give me, give me a statement.

451
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 3: I mean, unfortunately, this is just the way it is.

452
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 3: A lot of these people that you know are the

453
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: keeper of these records. They just put you to a

454
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 3: little dance because nine out of ten people will just

455
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 3: stop after they're denied that first time, and they don't

456
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 3: have to do that work. And that's simply the reason.

457
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 3: That's a little inside baseball for those not within law enforcement.

458
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 3: Here's a good example. I've been working on a case

459
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 3: for like three years and it's in my home area,

460
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: in my own department, Indiana State Police. I had requested

461
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 3: records on some of those cases, knowing damn well, well,

462
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: first of all, a couple of them are adjudicated. So

463
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 3: but there's a statute that the police in Indiana sometimes

464
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: hide behind that where the language says it gives them

465
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 3: the discretion to not abide by the Freedom of Information

466
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 3: Act if it in any way involves a criminal investigation.

467
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: So it doesn't he if the person's already locked up

468
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 3: and executed, you know, or it just hasn't been worked

469
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 3: in fifty years, they will not send it to you.

470
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 3: And you know, I just don't. I'm a bulldog. I'll

471
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 3: take no for an answer, you know, And it's my

472
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 3: own department, so I just kept firing, you know. And

473
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,879
Speaker 3: I did like little justcus trick where I copied the

474
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 3: statute and all this stuff. And uh, one day, I'm

475
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 3: talking to an old academy classmate of mine, one of

476
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,919
Speaker 3: my best friends in the department, who's now the major

477
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 3: in charge of all criminal investigations at Indiana State Police.

478
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: And I will save this lady's name, but he's like, oh, boy,

479
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 3: someone's so really fucking hate you. I was like really.

480
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: I was like, why because I won't take no for

481
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 3: an answer, and he said, yep, that's pretty much. Yet. Boy,

482
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 3: she cusses you up and down on a regular basis.

483
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, well, okay, there's worse things.

484
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: You know.

485
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: I tell rookies all the time. The First Amendment is

486
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: a real thing. And the reporter that you were running

487
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,400
Speaker 1: from is going to write that story anyway, Sugar. The

488
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 1: best thing you can do is put yourself in the

489
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: best light. Don't give them a reason to say they

490
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 1: won't return our calls, they won't make a statement. You know,

491
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,800
Speaker 1: basically they're hiding. Could there be corruption, could they have

492
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: done something wrong on the case. Did they screw it up?

493
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: Talk to her?

494
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 2: That's immediately what goes through my mind. What are you

495
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: hiding from me?

496
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: Baby? I know you. I know goes through your head.

497
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: Why do you think I call you back? But again,

498
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: it's the truth. I mean, if you called me and

499
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: you said, hey, I heard such and such about what's

500
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: going on in this town. You heard anything. I may

501
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: say to you, this is off the record, but this

502
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: is what I've heard. I don't know if it's true.

503
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: Or I may say to you, look, I have heard something,

504
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: but I absolutely cannot talk to you. But you might

505
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 1: want to go talk to Fred. Well, then that's up

506
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: to Fred. I can, but there's only so much I

507
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: can do. And sometimes I may say I cannot talk

508
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: to you own or off the record, because you know

509
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: my job and I know your job, and that's where

510
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: that respect comes from. And that's why I tell people,

511
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: if you're on this job, five minutes to start making

512
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: friends and with the media. You do that because the

513
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: old guard is going to tell you I wouldn't talk

514
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: to reporter if it was on my deathbed and it

515
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,440
Speaker 1: could lead you to a treasure. Okay, well, you need

516
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: to tell somebody, and you need to have some friend

517
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: you can go to because you're gonna need the media. Again,

518
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: whether it's a lost child or an elderly person that

519
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: has dementia. You want people to return your call too

520
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: when you need them for that. And especially on cold cases.

521
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 2: You know, we are not here to hang detectives out

522
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: to dry and show a case that they haven't solved this,

523
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: which is I think a lot of times sometimes what

524
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 2: hinders them from wanting to give information from that audible

525
00:29:58,920 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 2: cold kiss.

526
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: That's on our intention at all.

527
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: If you want us to be able to report the

528
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 2: facts as they are and help this case, help give

529
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 2: a voice to the victim and their family members who've

530
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: been fighting for decades sometimes to get truth and get justice.

531
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 2: We need those simple things to be able to do that.

532
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 2: And so when we have to, you know, compromise what

533
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 2: we're doing for a case because we don't have full

534
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 2: case files for something, you know, it's a problem. So

535
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: you know, and we're not going to be shy on

536
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,880
Speaker 2: our podcast for giving super accolades to people who help

537
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 2: us out, but we're also not going to be shy

538
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 2: about letting people know who did not help us out right.

539
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 3: And look, part of this is at least is.

540
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 1: Podcasts, is you've been worn.

541
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, there are some reckless podcasters out there, especially in

542
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: true crime, and there has been some basis for police

543
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 3: to be a little wary because of reckless use of

544
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 3: their power behind that microphone. And I'm just speaking in

545
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: terms of like it's easy to make an assumption because

546
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: you think that the police should have done this but

547
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 3: they didn't, to just start bashing them, right. But where

548
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: I always try to tell police was well, disarm that gun,

549
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 3: talk to them, explain why that thing wasn't done. Now,

550
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 3: Jessica and I will get in front of it because

551
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 3: of our own personal experience and expertise and say, we

552
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 3: don't know if that's why this wasn't done, but here's

553
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 3: a hypothetical reason why it hasn't been done. Or it

554
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: wasn't done. That's a justifiable reason and a decent reason

555
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: for having not done that. But you can control that

556
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: narrative if you're the police, and you can go on there,

557
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,520
Speaker 3: because listen, you're a grown person, you're an adult. You

558
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 3: can control yourself what you answer and what you don't

559
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 3: and how you answer it, and if you make yourself

560
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 3: available and I'm saying you got to do it to

561
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: every you know, podcaster that approaches you. But you know,

562
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 3: if you screen it a little bit and you feel like, Okay,

563
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 3: this person you know is credible and they do their

564
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 3: job very well, give them twenty minutes and feel free

565
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: to say, you know, I can't speak to that because

566
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 3: that's sensitive information to the case. But also you're going

567
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 3: to get an opportunity to answer that question why wasn't

568
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 3: this done or why haven't you done this yet? And

569
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 3: sometimes that may be what we have. I just can't

570
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,480
Speaker 3: tell you the particulars on it, and we've not released

571
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 3: that for public knowledge. Boom, you just took all those

572
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 3: bullets out of the gun. And when you don't, you're

573
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 3: just leaving yourself open to these pop shots.

574
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: You know, we interviewed a detective this week for one

575
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 2: of the cases we're working on, and you know, we

576
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: have the ability to not only ask questions as a

577
00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 2: journalist and ask questions as a former detective, we actually

578
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: have the ability to ask questions as a listener. So

579
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 2: we may know the answer to something, why haven't you prosecuted?

580
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: You clearly have suspects, Why aren't they in jail? Already,

581
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 2: and we can ask those questions based off of what

582
00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: we think listeners are going to want to know or

583
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 2: understand better from his point of view, And we were

584
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 2: able to do that with him knowing pretty much what

585
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 2: his answer was going to be because we've been through

586
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: the legal system, court system, we know how things work.

587
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 2: You only get one shot at this, you can't you

588
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: go back multiple times and try to try the same people.

589
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 2: So it's also a way for I think law enforcement

590
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 2: to help educate the public. It may not just be

591
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: about the case itself. Taught to us such a great

592
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: job in our episodes where I will ask him something

593
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: that I either know the answer to you already or

594
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 2: I don't, but I think it will be so insightful

595
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 2: for the listener to hear his experience and his expertise

596
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,160
Speaker 2: on that topic and how he would handle it and why,

597
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: because there's so much misinformation right now out there that

598
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 2: I don't want our podcast to just be about humor

599
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 2: or case or the fact. I want it also to

600
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,280
Speaker 2: be this I hate to say learning because that sounds stuffy,

601
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 2: but a learning experience enlightening because there are some times

602
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 2: even still that Todd will enlighten me on something that

603
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 2: I did not realize, And so for the listener, I

604
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 2: think that's really key to this, And so for law enforcement,

605
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 2: I hope they'll trust us to present their story within

606
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 2: this story with the respect that we will always give

607
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 2: them if they want to help with the case, and

608
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: allow us to help with the case, because that's all

609
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 2: we're trying to do. We certainly do not have any

610
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 2: intention of hindering a case that has not been solved.

611
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 2: All we're trying to do is move the needle. Move

612
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: the needle. So if there's stuff you can't talk about,

613
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,799
Speaker 2: I one thousand percent get it. There are things that

614
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: you can talk about. And being completely closed off to

615
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:18,520
Speaker 2: us or not giving us very very very simple records

616
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 2: that are preliminary records that there's no reason not.

617
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:26,680
Speaker 1: To, that's just it's counterproductive. It really is, because the

618
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:29,760
Speaker 1: bottom line is you just might be able to help.

619
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: And that's again what I preach all the time. Who cares?

620
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: Who solves it? Who cares? Who brings you the thing

621
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: that's going to crack it open? Who cares? The fact

622
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: is that it happened, and we have one less killer

623
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: walking amongst us. What we're doing today on Ann Ledger's

624
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: case is important. Somebody taught with her, Somebody was her student,

625
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: somebody was her neighbor, was her mama's friend at church.

626
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: So January sixteenth, nineteen eighty seven, she is killed in

627
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: her own apartment. When her mama and coworker get there,

628
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: the door is locked. She's found nude. She died by affixiation,

629
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 1: and there were multiple sexual offenders. Multiple Her apartment had

630
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: been broken into several times before. The underwear drawer had

631
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: been tossed out. The second time she experiences a burglary,

632
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: they took her answer machine. Somebody has information about what

633
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 1: happened at fifty six forty three Kingsport Drive. So that's

634
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: another reason we're starting with y'all. Y'all right now have

635
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 1: the same information we do. Jessica's doing her Thingdd's doing

636
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: his thing. But that's where we are. We are less

637
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: than ground zero. So if you have information, reach out

638
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 1: to Jessica, reach out to Todd, reach out to Sandy

639
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,959
Speaker 1: Springs Police, reach out to the Fulton County DA, reach

640
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: out to me. But tell somebody what you know. It

641
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,359
Speaker 1: doesn't matter how small it is, because I promise you

642
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: the next time we do an episode with Jessica and Todd.

643
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,880
Speaker 1: They are going to have information, and they are going

644
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 1: to have some names, and they may even have already

645
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: pushed this needle so far that law enforcement's going to

646
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: be able to take action. So right now, I'm going

647
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: to give Jessica and Todd the final say of what

648
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: they want to say about their podcast or an Ledger's case,

649
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,880
Speaker 1: you know, and Ledger's case. Cold.

650
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,759
Speaker 2: Cases that are this cold and this old are so

651
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 2: interesting to me and heartbreaking. Every case we cover as

652
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: heartbreaking when it's unsolved, even when it is solved, it's

653
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: still heartbreaking. Something that has gone on this long with

654
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 2: no answers, with no justice, and deserves better. And it's

655
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 2: cases like these that really get me moving because I

656
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 2: want these answers for her and for her family. They've

657
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:28,760
Speaker 2: lived thirty plus years not knowing what happened to her

658
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 2: and who's responsible. And if we can shed light and

659
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: give and a voice back and do anything to move

660
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 2: this case forward, that's what we're going to do. That's

661
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 2: what is the bulldog in both of us. And it's

662
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: not just getting case files. It's about learning who Anne was.

663
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 2: It's about learning about her life, not just her death.

664
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 2: So you have to understand who she was, who she

665
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:05,879
Speaker 2: was talking to, her life and living to be able

666
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: to understand her death. So I'm eager to dig into

667
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: this and to try to find as many answers as

668
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: we possibly can on her case.

669
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about stopping monsters. You know, A real life

670
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 3: monster entered Anne's life. A young woman, an educator, someone

671
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 3: who was giving back to her community, gets her life

672
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 3: taken from her, and not just taken from our world.

673
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:43,160
Speaker 3: She was humiliated and violently assaulted, the most intimate and

674
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 3: horrifying experience that every woman, every person fears happened to

675
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 3: her before she was taken from this world. And the

676
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: fact that that monster has not been identified, and that

677
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 3: that monster might be be enjoying lunch right now at

678
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 3: a restaurant pisses me the hell off, and it should

679
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 3: piss everyone that's listening to this off. That's why you

680
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: listen to this podcast. You're of that type, and that's

681
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 3: what we offer up on the Investigators, and we are

682
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 3: all about a village. I didn't know Cheryl before my

683
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 3: relationship with Jessica, and I'm so grateful now that she

684
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: is a friend and that we're in this network together

685
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 3: and to gavi an opportunity to work with one of

686
00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 3: the best added to our dynamic is so exciting to me.

687
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,279
Speaker 3: So this case I think has a real chance, if

688
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 3: not to bring resolution to it by someone being alive

689
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: and being put in jail we don't know yet, but

690
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: at least providing answers because that family needs to know

691
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 3: who the monster was or rather not. They're pounding free

692
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 3: pavement right now.

693
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: We own it and y'all are now own it with us.

694
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: So if y'all find out anything, contact us and let

695
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 1: us know. For me, what I'm going to be a

696
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 1: concentrate known is the crime scene. And I can already

697
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: tell you if you look at rapes, only about twenty

698
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 1: four percent or gang rapes, so that already narra is

699
00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: our suspect poll and then of those rapists less than

700
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: that are going to murder. So it's narrative again. We

701
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: have a great shot, I think if we can get

702
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 1: the right evidence that there'll be a code has hit

703
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 1: because none of us, the three of us, believe that

704
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: these people went on and you know, started a school somewhere.

705
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 2: I just wanted to say, I'm I'm thrilled that we

706
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 2: were able to be on your show and appreciate all

707
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: of your support. I'm excited about digging into Ann's case,

708
00:41:54,560 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 2: and I'm really excited about the Investigators launching with Todd.

709
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: This is something that's really been our baby. We've been

710
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 2: developing it for months, maybe even a year, to really

711
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: hone in on what we wanted it to be. You know,

712
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,320
Speaker 2: what he wanted, what I wanted, and how those merge.

713
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 2: And I got to say, I could not be more

714
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 2: proud of this show and what I hope it will

715
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 2: do and how it will resonate with people. I love it.

716
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 3: If anybody out there wants to hear anything that they

717
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 3: might not have heard before about Cheryl's life that brought

718
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: her to where she is right now, you can check

719
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 3: out our podcast because we also feature a little segment

720
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: called Across the Table where we speak to people like

721
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 3: Cheryl and Yeah, it's cool when dig into all the

722
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 3: cool stuff that everybody loves about her and what she

723
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 3: does for law enforcement and victims and all that stuff.

724
00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: But we're also a little bit different, so we might

725
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:04,240
Speaker 3: dig into some uh some Cheryl pre her law enforcement

726
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 3: days and find out what funny story she has hidden

727
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 3: in her little, her little.

728
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: Closet I'm gonna end Zone seven the way that I

729
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: always do with a quote, if you're not going to

730
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 1: offend somebody, you don't need the First Amendment. Larry Flint,

731
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven.

732
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 3: H