Speaker 1: Really now, really.
Speaker 2: Really now, really welcome. I'm Peter Tilman.
Speaker 3: Next to me is my good friend I like that,
Speaker 3: Jason Alexander, and we're here to do another episode of
Speaker 3: Really No Really. Today's episode A little is very smooth.
Speaker 3: By the way, that was the best we've ever done.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry I interrupted him. By the way, I killed
Speaker 3: the killed that you killed.
Speaker 4: I was commenting almost too professional. Yeah, but thank you.
Speaker 4: I couldn't let it go. I couldn't let it go.
Speaker 3: So this is a pretty heady episode. I really know,
Speaker 3: really because I saw that Ray Kurtzwall, who was a
Speaker 3: futurist who they say has one of the best records
Speaker 3: for predicting things that have come true.
Speaker 5: The Jimmy, the Greek of futurists.
Speaker 3: By the way, he's saying, thank you for that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's the Nate Silver. In nineteen ninety he protected the
Speaker 3: world's best chess player would lose to a computer by
Speaker 3: two things, and it happened in nineteen ninety seven, So
Speaker 3: he was off when when Deep Blue beat Gary Kasparov, Yes,
Speaker 3: he said, by twenty twenty three one thousand dollars laptop,
Speaker 3: we have a human brains, computing power and storage capability
Speaker 3: and many other things. And the latest thing he said
Speaker 3: was that humans will achieve immortality in eight years. He's
Speaker 3: a Google engineer, really really, no, really, and he says
Speaker 3: it will happen with a combination of genetics, the nanotechnology.
Speaker 2: You know that we'll be able to repair, yes, and robotics. Yes,
Speaker 2: we know that.
Speaker 3: Elon Musk has said things about melding the brain with AI.
Speaker 2: So everything he says is true and happens.
Speaker 3: Well, nice cars, yeah, but we wanted to get somebody
Speaker 3: on to find out because this is way above our
Speaker 3: pay grade. Yes, so we said, what the hey, let's
Speaker 3: get an expert. Let's get an expert, and then we
Speaker 3: found them.
Speaker 4: So today we'll be chatting with a gentleman who is
Speaker 4: the Professor of Biological Gerontology at the University of Brighton.
Speaker 4: He is the past chair of the British Society for
Speaker 4: Research on Aging and the American Aging Association. He's been
Speaker 4: studying the relationship between cellular centizens, which we will find
Speaker 4: out more about, and aging for more than thirty years.
Speaker 4: He's been named one of the top one hundred longevity
Speaker 4: leaders by Aging Analytics. Please welcome from the University of Brighton.
Speaker 4: Professor of biological gerontology, Professor Richard Farreger.
Speaker 2: How are you doing, professor?
Speaker 1: Very well? Thank you, gentlemen, thank you for having me
Speaker 1: on the show, particularly when the introductions apparently have reached
Speaker 1: their peat. This is the point where it all comes
Speaker 1: to rut came to the peak.
Speaker 4: I just have to say right off the top that
Speaker 4: the accent and the tie, this is the classiest we
Speaker 4: will ever be on this show.
Speaker 2: We know something.
Speaker 3: My son used to say this if you're because he
Speaker 3: went to England for a semester and he came back
Speaker 3: and he said, in America, when a guy is in
Speaker 3: a park yelling.
Speaker 6: The world's coming to in and we're all good, you.
Speaker 2: Go, what a lunatic And you go, tell me more.
Speaker 3: The world's coming so incredible and reason you go, okay,
Speaker 3: come to the house.
Speaker 1: Like the TV channels, you know it comes from, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it comes from you know.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I went into gerontology because I was growing up in
Speaker 1: the seventies and like three TV channels and so all
Speaker 1: of them were and there was nothing on, and it
Speaker 1: encouraged you to go outside and on the wall and
Speaker 1: wake something happen. So that's how I ended. That's how
Speaker 1: I ended up there? What's your excent?
Speaker 2: Nothing to do nothing, We're just talking to you. We
Speaker 2: didn't go into it all right, Oh my god.
Speaker 3: So the interesting thing is I get the overall question
Speaker 3: from me and we can get into singularity and kurtswhile.
Speaker 3: But as you get older, what actually endures? I mean
Speaker 3: that's the biggest question. What's what's the what's the point
Speaker 3: of living longer? So we're when you study this, is
Speaker 3: that taken into consideration?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think too, I think to an accent. You know,
Speaker 1: the the immortality thing always kind of makes me because
Speaker 1: it sits at the it sits at the opposite end
Speaker 1: of a spectrum. If I do good a public understanding
Speaker 1: of science lectures about one time in five there's a
Speaker 1: guy who comes up to me and says, I don't
Speaker 1: want to live forever. I always say that's great, because
Speaker 1: you don't have the option. They almost look disappointed. And
Speaker 1: it's strange because I there and thinking if I went
Speaker 1: into a restaurant, you know, if he went into a restaurant,
Speaker 1: I say, a waiter, and you know he opened the
Speaker 1: menu and said, I really hate crabcakes, And I said, well,
Speaker 1: you're in luxer because we're not serving them. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: expect the guy it's just mind, you serve me stuff
Speaker 1: that I don't like. And at the other end, there
Speaker 1: is this immortality thing, and it's often helpful to unpeck
Speaker 1: I think what that means to the person who said
Speaker 1: it along Inside the guy who says, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't want to live forever, there's usually someone who says
Speaker 1: I do. And rather than you know, just disappointing them
Speaker 1: straight out, I try and let them down gently by saying,
Speaker 1: are you aware that you know? Forever? It's a bugger
Speaker 1: of a long time. Actually, you know, a reasonable argument
Speaker 1: can be made that it's all the time that there is.
Speaker 1: This is a long time a humans, This is a
Speaker 1: long time a style, multi stellar lifetime.
Speaker 2: We're done and you got it. You got me.
Speaker 4: Physic is gerontology, particularly in the way that you are
Speaker 4: researching it is it is it about living longer or
Speaker 4: living better longer or some combination.
Speaker 1: Well, this is where it becomes. This is where it
Speaker 1: gets really interesting, because lying behind these kinds of discussions
Speaker 1: is something that I think is going to be really important.
Speaker 1: It's going to be really transformative, if not for us,
Speaker 1: then for our kids, and I think that's incredibly hopeful.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, as long as there have been people,
Speaker 1: we've known that some think about how old you are
Speaker 1: also affects how healthy you are. I think there's a
Speaker 1: lot of evidence that there are a few common processes.
Speaker 1: You can call them aging mechanisms if you want. I
Speaker 1: tend to think of them as health maintenance mechanisms that
Speaker 1: exist to keep us healthy. Problems start to occur as
Speaker 1: they start to fail for the first time in human history.
Speaker 1: I think we've got a pretty good handle on what
Speaker 1: some of those mechanisms are, and we can chat about
Speaker 1: that if you would like. And this understanding is starting
Speaker 1: to reach the point where we are starting to go
Speaker 1: into clinical trials with some compounds based on this, and
Speaker 1: most clinical trials fail. You know, the analogy that I
Speaker 1: sometimes use with people is the difference. You know, a
Speaker 1: clinical trial is a bit like getting an audition. Okay,
Speaker 1: you've got an audition. You probably shouldn't be picking out
Speaker 1: the place for your star on Hollywood Boulevard just yet.
Speaker 1: I'm wondering which private island you're going to be. You know,
Speaker 1: you're going to have to do a lot of those
Speaker 1: if you make it there, and I think it's fair
Speaker 1: to say the mechanisms are kind of screen testing. Well,
Speaker 1: there's sixty ongoing trials I think, on drugs that destroy
Speaker 1: sinn essence cells at the moment.
Speaker 4: And can you just because I haven't written down here
Speaker 4: and I have some understanding, but can you just talk
Speaker 4: about sin essence for a moment and what that is?
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm very happy to do that. So to say
Speaker 1: that there seems to be good evidence for some biological
Speaker 1: processes acting as what we call aging mechanisms, and if
Speaker 1: you get rid of it, that slows aging down, and
Speaker 1: if you increase the rate at which it appears at
Speaker 1: speeds aging. Now, so what happens with Selson essence is this.
Speaker 1: It was first discovered by a very bright guy called
Speaker 1: Leonard Hayflick in the early sixties, and for reasons that
Speaker 1: don't matter, for a little while or the twentieth early
Speaker 1: twentieth century, it was believed that cells had no limits
Speaker 1: to division. Hayflick showed that they did, and since they
Speaker 1: had limits to division, this suggested that the accumulation of
Speaker 1: these cells over time would contribute to aging and disease.
Speaker 1: And so the way it works simply is this and
Speaker 1: the normal cost of your life. You lose cells, that
Speaker 1: loss has to be balanced by cell division, or you
Speaker 1: run out of cells. That cell division is actively monitored
Speaker 1: as part of an anti cancer mechanism because you pick
Speaker 1: up most of the mutations that predispose you to cancer
Speaker 1: when you're replicating DNA, and after a variable number of divisions,
Speaker 1: that sell us two things. It will never divide again,
Speaker 1: and it changes its behavior and it adopts a series
Speaker 1: of damaging activities. Why is it doing this because it
Speaker 1: wants to be found and killed by cells in your
Speaker 1: immune system. It wants to be got rid of. The
Speaker 1: problem is that your immune system is also made of cells,
Speaker 1: and it is aging. And so when you're young, as
Speaker 1: soon as you make a sinessence cell, it's clobbed by
Speaker 1: your immune system. When you're kind of my age, it's
Speaker 1: more like, you know, you ring the insurance company or
Speaker 1: something like that, and it's just your call is important
Speaker 1: to us. You will stay on the line, you know,
Speaker 1: And it's kind of like that. So you start these
Speaker 1: things start to build up, and this starts to cause
Speaker 1: all sorts of problems in laboratory animals, where we've been
Speaker 1: able to engineer them such that it's possible to remove
Speaker 1: sinessence cells chemically, you see an increase in lifespan of
Speaker 1: about twenty five percent, sometimes to thirty percent, and what
Speaker 1: you also see as a big improvement in health. The
Speaker 1: data that I like most is wheel running. If you
Speaker 1: take these little mice that have had their sinessence cells
Speaker 1: removed and you compare them to their littermates who've been
Speaker 1: left alone, they run about twice as far and about
Speaker 1: twice as fast, and no one's making these most run.
Speaker 1: They're running more because they like it. And if you
Speaker 1: could translate that into the human population, it's the difference
Speaker 1: between being able to live independently in your own home,
Speaker 1: you know, jog down to the shop to buy the
Speaker 1: paper in the morning, or having to feel your world
Speaker 1: kind of contract around you, not.
Speaker 5: Feeling at the key.
Speaker 3: Basically, the key to all of this is controlling sin
Speaker 3: essence cells. If you can get to the core of that,
Speaker 3: that seems to be the key to life extension.
Speaker 1: Yes, then now this is where the caveats started coming.
Speaker 1: It's clear that at least one angle of attech would
Speaker 1: be to either get rid of sin essence cells. There
Speaker 1: are groups that are working on that stop them being
Speaker 1: sinescent under certain indication, which is something I'm very interested in.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I think is currently unknown
Speaker 1: is how big the effect of the different aging mechanisms
Speaker 1: we know about is in different species. So in mice,
Speaker 1: when you get rid of sin essence cells, you can
Speaker 1: see a thirty to forty percent of groups and life
Speaker 1: whether you would see an extension whether or in fact,
Speaker 1: and the reason you're seeing the extension lifespan is the
Speaker 1: animal is healthier. This is an important point to stress.
Speaker 1: Sick things tend to die. Healthy things tend to live.
Speaker 1: So if you are, like most reputable gerontologists most of
Speaker 1: the time, trying to improve health, you get the lifespan
Speaker 1: extension as a kind of beneficial side effect. But we
Speaker 1: could be on the verge of real improvements in the
Speaker 1: head health of our older population, and that is something
Speaker 1: we sorely need.
Speaker 4: Is there any research into animals that naturally seem to
Speaker 4: live greater lifespans. I think it's I know there's sometoise tortoise,
Speaker 4: it might be the Galapicus tortoise or something that seems
Speaker 4: to on average live well past one hundred years. Is
Speaker 4: anybody looking to those kinds of animals that have natural
Speaker 4: longevity to see if there's something there.
Speaker 1: Some not much because if you think about the difficulties
Speaker 1: and now you've ever seen a Galaphagus tortoise or the
Speaker 1: Mauritian giant tortoise. Actually, honeymoon I did. I honeymooned in
Speaker 1: Mauritius specifically to see a Mauritian giant tortoise.
Speaker 2: Wow did you?
Speaker 1: And they?
Speaker 5: I did?
Speaker 1: And that they're misnamed. It shouldn't be called the Mauritia
Speaker 1: giant tortoise. It should be called the Jesus Christ that
Speaker 1: thinks the size of a sofa tortoise, which kind of
Speaker 1: give you know, and this kind of that there's a
Speaker 1: picture of me and the tortoise, and you know, one
Speaker 1: of us is rin clear than the other, but not
Speaker 1: by much. And you know, this illustrates the problem. It's
Speaker 1: it's very, very difficult to do research and maintain a
Speaker 1: colony of Mauritian giant tortoises that you could study. You know,
Speaker 1: some whale species are noticeably longer lived than humans. But
Speaker 1: I would love to see the Grant committee. You know,
Speaker 1: I just need a few, you know, one hundred million
Speaker 1: to maintain.
Speaker 5: But I mean that's the questions point.
Speaker 2: Though.
Speaker 3: There are microbes that have been discovered that they think
Speaker 3: are thousands of years old that are still catabolically functioning,
Speaker 3: and certain jelly fis that's me reproduce and start all
Speaker 3: over again.
Speaker 5: I mean they I was going to say, there's a couple.
Speaker 1: You know, there's a difference between holding an organism, you know,
Speaker 1: in the sort of stasis for a long period of time.
Speaker 1: You know, we maintain, we routinely maintain bacteria frozen at
Speaker 1: minus eighty when we need them. There are species that
Speaker 1: are tractable, that are what we call non aging, by
Speaker 1: which I mean, as I said, you know, our chances
Speaker 1: your chance of death goes up exponentially, but if you
Speaker 1: are one of the select number of species, your chance
Speaker 1: of death stay is fixed. And if you've ever had
Speaker 1: clam chowder, you've eaten because it's the quay hog, all right,
Speaker 1: and the clams in your bowl of clam chowder were
Speaker 1: probably older than you were. And the don't don't, don't.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, I think I just gave up clam chowder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the clam showders in the ball in the potential.
Speaker 1: That I have protectially, you know, you know, look, don't
Speaker 1: sue if it turns.
Speaker 4: But also on the positive side, what were they doing
Speaker 4: that was so exciting that I shouldn't enjoy a nice plans?
Speaker 3: But you know what else, I think the clam's going
Speaker 3: I've been around two hundred years. Really, really, they're going
Speaker 3: to take me out for his What the hell?
Speaker 5: Wow?
Speaker 4: I was just a cancer and now I'm in Manhattan
Speaker 4: or New England, sir.
Speaker 1: The very oldest plans are there, so old that Shakespeare
Speaker 1: could have had them very old prayhogs, or so old
Speaker 1: that Shakespeare could have had them in a bowl shoe.
Speaker 1: And this came out in a project or quite a
Speaker 1: few years ago now, which led to a kind of
Speaker 1: car crash interview for me because the guys who were
Speaker 1: doing the work got in touch with me, and in
Speaker 1: a kind of around the houses thing, I suddenly found
Speaker 1: myself on radio being accused of finding the world's oldest
Speaker 1: animal and then killing it, which is kind of hard one,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, it's a bit of a curve
Speaker 1: for when you're jet lagged and you're coming. But to
Speaker 1: go back to Jason's original point, that is, the species
Speaker 1: that is small enough to work on, you could potentially
Speaker 1: look at extremely long life. One of the interesting things
Speaker 1: that we also tend to do is we like to
Speaker 1: look at species that have shorter life spans than ours,
Speaker 1: just because we kind of like to get the study
Speaker 1: done while we're all still alive, and so's there's particular interest,
Speaker 1: you know. It's one of those things. If anybody is
Speaker 1: amenable to a lifetime's worth of funding, then I'm very happy.
Speaker 5: It makes a lot of I suspect not.
Speaker 4: You bring up a good bridge into some of the
Speaker 4: ethical questions and moral questions around this research, you know,
Speaker 4: the most basic of which being I see every reason
Speaker 4: to be increasing the health of our health as we
Speaker 4: live and as we age. But are we are we
Speaker 4: potentially doing great harm by trying to increase substantially the
Speaker 4: longevity of human life. There I think particularly about, you know, overpopulation.
Speaker 4: I think about the resources that we have on this planet.
Speaker 4: If we're going to continue to make babies at the
Speaker 4: at the rate that we do, and the average lifespan
Speaker 4: becomes one hundred, one hundred and twenty one hundred and
Speaker 4: twenty five plus years, what are what problems.
Speaker 2: Are we creating? Not to mention that my kids still
Speaker 2: going to be living, me seventy eight.
Speaker 4: Yeah, straight on you now, you won't retire to you
Speaker 4: or one hundred and sixty people sixty from your mouth?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I can aside. You're making that there.
Speaker 1: You actually put your finger on a very important point.
Speaker 1: Notdly enough. Have you been reading my papers that I've
Speaker 1: just submitted.
Speaker 2: I am and by everything that is right?
Speaker 1: Okay, O, thank you? What can I say? Are you
Speaker 1: doing anything after this? But but effectively, you know this
Speaker 1: isn't This is a really important point about the ethics.
Speaker 1: I take this pretty seriously. And one of the things
Speaker 1: it's It's not often said, but it's there running through
Speaker 1: everything we do as scientists. The unspoken social contract between
Speaker 1: the scientific community and the broader public is basically that
Speaker 1: we only use our powers for good, okay, so that
Speaker 1: we only do things that are of social benefit. And
Speaker 1: there is absolutely out there no mass support for greatly
Speaker 1: extended lifespans. It's there, but it's a minority position, a
Speaker 1: distinct minority position, because strangely enough, you know, it's always
Speaker 1: coupled with the lifespan extension is overpopulation. Right, you know,
Speaker 1: when was the last time you had kids? I've done
Speaker 1: it once, and I'm really not. I'm not you know,
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I have a longer life expectancy than
Speaker 1: I would have done in nineteen hundred. I'm not rubbing
Speaker 1: my hands together and saying, hey, bring on, you know,
Speaker 1: bring on the now changing. I can't wait.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, but who you know.
Speaker 2: In the canon the canton is just.
Speaker 4: But I'm I do know older people, I mean, people
Speaker 4: in their seventies that are continuing to have children them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's not automatic, right, all right. The
Speaker 1: increases in the healthy period of the life that we
Speaker 1: see in experimental animals in the laboratory into the American
Speaker 1: healthcare system saves about seven trillion dollars gross. You're talking
Speaker 1: about the US saving money roughly equivalent to about forty
Speaker 1: percent of all the gold out of mind, or enough
Speaker 1: to give everybody on earth clean drinking water for about
Speaker 1: the next three decades. So if we don't go down
Speaker 1: that road, and we don't start treating the ill health
Speaker 1: in later life, we're going to spend more money than
Speaker 1: ever before to keep more people than ever beforemal miserable.
Speaker 1: I kind of have trouble seeing that as a whine.
Speaker 3: The amazing thing is the scientific advances. Just my wife,
Speaker 3: I look at my wife. We used to have the
Speaker 3: trumpet ear trumpet way back for hearing impaired, and then
Speaker 3: yet hearing aids, and now she has a cochlear implant.
Speaker 3: That stuff is advancing pretty rapidly as far as technological advances,
Speaker 3: Are we advancing that rapidly in health?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think, I think, I think that we are at
Speaker 1: a point in later life disease roughly equivalent to you know,
Speaker 1: it's about nineteen forty, nineteen thirty eight and antibiotics a
Speaker 1: just I'm sorry, so pretty and if you think, if
Speaker 1: you think about the analogy, it kind of stipped. You know,
Speaker 1: if you had an infected tooth and a time machine,
Speaker 1: you sure as hell would dial in some point, you know,
Speaker 1: after about nineteen sixty to.
Speaker 5: Get it treated.
Speaker 1: And it does flag up something important which I think
Speaker 1: not a lot of politicians and policymakers are alert to
Speaker 1: yet though that is changing, which is we are not
Speaker 1: the only people talking about this, and quietly but persistent,
Speaker 1: they countries are gearing up to move into this space
Speaker 1: that would be and the countries and companies that have
Speaker 1: the production facilities and hold the patents on these new
Speaker 1: drugs will have a commanding lead for good or ill
Speaker 1: in twenty first century healthcare.
Speaker 2: And you just hope that it's affordable, fun to talk about.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But.
Speaker 3: And then the inequality seeps into that, et cetera. And
Speaker 3: like you said, I hope good rather than evil. But
Speaker 3: in the science community, I noticed people are tending now
Speaker 3: to exaggerate findings to tease what's going on because they
Speaker 3: want funding. They want to cut through and make noise
Speaker 3: like what give me a ferens like you're going to
Speaker 3: live forever? Yeah, that kind of client. It's a huge
Speaker 3: claim that grabs you. We did a show about it
Speaker 3: just now because we saw this futurists who said you could.
Speaker 2: Reach that point.
Speaker 4: But he's also talking about Kertzweil was talking about not
Speaker 4: on medications but engineer. Yeah, you know, he's talking about
Speaker 4: making human beings somewhat less human in.
Speaker 5: Order to.
Speaker 3: But you also have you have like a David Sinclair
Speaker 3: who's doing research who makes claims also and that there
Speaker 3: are people probably on the planet now there are one
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty and we just don't know it. And
Speaker 3: then you see the guy driving a car at one
Speaker 3: hundred and nine, you know they so you see those headlines,
Speaker 3: they kind of push out the sense that maybe we're
Speaker 3: not seeing.
Speaker 4: If my Vivian is ninety two and she's driving a
Speaker 4: car and we.
Speaker 3: Should say tell her to give you the kid.
Speaker 2: You know, it's enough for endic right.
Speaker 5: I mean, first of all, where is she going?
Speaker 6: Well that's the important you know.
Speaker 3: I think, I think and you'll all agree with this,
Speaker 3: the people live the longest have purpose. Well, sure, there
Speaker 3: you go, Yes, so your Envivian has a purpose.
Speaker 4: Well, I'll want to push back on that.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know the way I tend to yeah,
Speaker 1: the way I tend to look at it, guys, is this.
Speaker 1: I think you've identified a really important point, Peter, And
Speaker 1: my aunts was a pretty blunt one, which is, if
Speaker 1: scientists start talking like science fiction authors, where will the
Speaker 1: public go? Thank you scientist? That is really important to me.
Speaker 1: We have a duty to inform. We do not have
Speaker 1: a duty, but so many but again it's part of
Speaker 1: the and so you know, sometimes it's acts a downcalls.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's you know, sometimes you know, sometimes it's not
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's misplaced enthusiasm. You know that that's you know again,
Speaker 1: you know now less I may Less, I think is
Speaker 1: probably sitting at the bottom of the list. One of
Speaker 1: the you know, one of the things a lot of
Speaker 1: scientists often have trouble with is they honestly can't believe
Speaker 1: that people don't know as much about psyclo independent inhibition,
Speaker 1: because what else do people talk about in the.
Speaker 2: It's embarrassing.
Speaker 4: My take away from this all yeah, I know, no
Speaker 4: matter what, no matter what the professor.
Speaker 2: Is working on in all of his colleagues, not you
Speaker 2: and me, we ain't.
Speaker 5: Going to get those recruiting.
Speaker 2: Minutes away.
Speaker 5: We are a little weird, look a little faster than
Speaker 5: he is.
Speaker 2: Rob around us. Be here now because tomorrow closer, closer than.
Speaker 1: The other thing, I mean the other thing I would say.
Speaker 1: Gent we're into prediction and it's actually it's it's it's
Speaker 1: a pivot away from my day job. But I have
Speaker 1: a dirty little hobby that I'm happy to admit to live,
Speaker 1: which is I collect old visions of the future. You know,
Speaker 1: those cities of Brian, Eylon and Teflon on the moon.
Speaker 5: That's having now. But we're not.
Speaker 1: And there's a serious point to this, which is we
Speaker 1: don't you know, nobody has an accurate picture of We
Speaker 1: have no accurate data of what the world of twenty
Speaker 1: sixty three will look like. What we do have is
Speaker 1: we have a vast amount of data about what people
Speaker 1: thought the world thirty years from the point at which
Speaker 1: they were writing would look like. And when you look
Speaker 1: at that stuff on block what you find is the
Speaker 1: ideas are just not worthwhile. There's one I'm not going
Speaker 1: to name names, but it does make me laugh. It's
Speaker 1: written in the sixties, and you can see that the
Speaker 1: guy's kind of been inspired by two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: He's a serious scientist, Okay, fairly serious scientist, and in
Speaker 1: his imagination, the world of today is the whole planet's
Speaker 1: crust is gridded with these kind of vacuum tubes that
Speaker 1: serve as subways, you know, and you just know that
Speaker 1: it's kind of a cylindrical thing that moves through it
Speaker 1: and it's traveling at multiple times the speed of sound.
Speaker 1: So we can be in Japan in a couple of hours,
Speaker 1: but we have to stop at station and use a
Speaker 1: call box to ring.
Speaker 7: Okay, and you know this is and they kind of
Speaker 7: just a just a tad I have a vision, and yeah.
Speaker 1: You know I had I had a vision after some
Speaker 1: bootleg spirit.
Speaker 4: I are you in twenty sixty three segnfeld Stone syndication.
Speaker 4: That's my only hope for the future.
Speaker 2: And you know what, I wish that for you to
Speaker 2: thank professor, Thank you.
Speaker 5: I hope you because I.
Speaker 1: Actually missed it. I was in the lamb when it
Speaker 1: was running up and watching.
Speaker 2: Well you'll enjoy it, I think, and you'll learn so much.
Speaker 1: And if not, it's not you, it's me.
Speaker 2: Ruberheim has joined us.
Speaker 3: The interesting thing about the aging topic and j is,
Speaker 3: like you said, I don't know have a gym membership
Speaker 3: for forty years that I don't go to, right, you know,
Speaker 3: there's stag it's.
Speaker 4: Your favorite line. My doctor said, if I got on
Speaker 4: the treadmill every day, I would live an extra ten years,
Speaker 4: and you said, yes.
Speaker 2: If treadmien years in trouble. So it's that.
Speaker 5: And then it's what my son Noah said when he heard.
Speaker 4: That, you know, people could live possibly to one hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty years old and his and he was about
Speaker 4: ten or twelve years old when he heard this, and
Speaker 4: he went first thing out of his mouth.
Speaker 2: He goes, well, that's the end of marriage. I went,
Speaker 2: what are you talking about?
Speaker 4: He said, well, most people they meet somebody when they're thirty,
Speaker 4: they get married when they're thirty.
Speaker 2: You know, there's together thirty years. You're sixty. You go,
Speaker 2: all right, how long have I got? You tough it out?
Speaker 4: But have I got a lot of fifty years after that?
Speaker 2: And by the way, what's your secret of your long marriage?
Speaker 2: Eighty years? I haven't been able to hear. I can't
Speaker 2: get out of that care I can't move, I can't walk.
Speaker 3: The other thing is that our grandparents used to look
Speaker 3: old grandparents today don't look Nobody looks like my grandfather.
Speaker 2: Look at me. Don't you make one?
Speaker 3: And by the way, to David, just going to impact David, Yeah,
Speaker 3: he's in Florida. Imagine how many people are going to
Speaker 3: be moving to fall. Florida is going to tip and
Speaker 3: fall into the ard. I just tell you. And by
Speaker 3: by the way, by the way, end of life. We
Speaker 3: have a thing, we have a product that Jason and
Speaker 3: I have been working on.
Speaker 4: That's right, because this is a question that comes up
Speaker 4: all the time. My wife and I we talk about,
Speaker 4: you know, what happens a living will, and.
Speaker 2: My wife is.
Speaker 4: My wife says, if I have a hair for her,
Speaker 4: if she has a hair out of place and she
Speaker 4: can't fix it, pull the plug. I have a thing.
Speaker 4: My wife says, if you're in a vegetated state, what
Speaker 4: do you want me to do? And I go, well,
Speaker 4: how long have I How long have I been in
Speaker 4: this state?
Speaker 2: She goes two months.
Speaker 4: I go, uh huh huh am I bothering anybody? Because
Speaker 4: you know something could happen, something can turn it around.
Speaker 5: She's I can see her. She's salivating to pull the blue.
Speaker 2: She doesn't.
Speaker 5: She doldn't want the money going out the windows. She
Speaker 5: doesn't want her life to be ruined.
Speaker 2: By I get it, but you and I came up with.
Speaker 3: It because and this may sound selfish, and I don't
Speaker 3: mean it as selfish, but I've worked really hard to
Speaker 3: provide and I have in a living will. I would
Speaker 3: like to be a burden in my family. I mean
Speaker 3: not talking like weekend of burn someone goes skiing. I
Speaker 3: want to go to game, so I don't care if
Speaker 3: I put some Yeah, put something under arms like oven
Speaker 3: and put me in the in the passenger seat. You
Speaker 3: can use the express exactly. Put it put something that
Speaker 3: smells nice under my arms. If I'm starting to the cay,
Speaker 3: just make sure what's the rush?
Speaker 5: What's the word?
Speaker 3: So my wife I could see, she loves me, she's great,
Speaker 3: but I could see her. They say, you know what,
Speaker 3: do you want to pull a plug? And she trips
Speaker 3: on the court out of the hospital room and goes
Speaker 3: off or nobody's looking, and my son yanks. So we
Speaker 3: came up with a brand new product that I think
Speaker 3: is gonna be hot. If you want to invest, this
Speaker 3: could be your opportunity. It's called to pull or not
Speaker 3: to pull with the word two in their meaning to
Speaker 3: w W. You need two fingerprints, that's right, two fingerprints
Speaker 3: on the plug to get it out of it.
Speaker 4: And it can't be the same Thingerpriant. So it's you
Speaker 4: and somebody else. So in Mike, cause it'll be my
Speaker 4: wife and my cousin Leonard, who lives I believe in
Speaker 4: istam to go let her find him is an unlisted phone.
Speaker 2: And mine would be a friend from high school.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen in thirty eight years that she's got
Speaker 3: to find, So it could be who knows where.
Speaker 2: I'm saying, it's like the nuclear coach. You need.
Speaker 5: Two people are in the key.
Speaker 4: Two people said at the same time to pull the two.
Speaker 3: Two pull or not to pull bull. I think we're
Speaker 3: onto something that side. I think we Douglas. And by
Speaker 3: the way, our spouse is hearing this. Now they're pulling
Speaker 3: the floor. This was the incentive to full of flo.
Speaker 4: And by the way, every old bid my My wife
Speaker 4: had an aunt testy, God bless her. I think she
Speaker 4: lived to one hundred and five. You and I knew
Speaker 4: Kirk Douglas. He lived, Oh my god, like to old age.
Speaker 4: I do know a couple of people. My mom was
Speaker 4: ninety eight when she passed. Right, every person I know,
Speaker 4: with very little exception, when they get into that age,
Speaker 4: they don't, as the professor said, they don't really want.
Speaker 3: But you know what it's beginning. Joan River said this
Speaker 3: to me, which is really interesting. It's a friend died
Speaker 3: of hers and she said there are fewer and fewer
Speaker 3: people that I can say remember when too, and that
Speaker 3: I was half joking. But a minute, if you have
Speaker 3: a reason to you just you need that purpose. So
Speaker 3: I think when your mom or whatever, they lose the purpose,
Speaker 3: there's not I've done it, I've been there. But then again,
Speaker 3: what would happen if you know you could live to
Speaker 3: one hundred and fifty? Can you invent a purpose? What
Speaker 3: the psychology do.
Speaker 2: If I told you, honestly, this is a serious question.
Speaker 4: If I told you you could live fairly healthfully, not
Speaker 4: you know, fairly healthfully two hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 2: Now think about that, two hundred and fifty years. Would
Speaker 2: you take it?
Speaker 5: I suppose?
Speaker 2: And what's the choice or what we can expect? Now? Well,
Speaker 2: I don't you know. I couldn't answer.
Speaker 3: I don't think so, because I can't even project what
Speaker 3: that looks like, or if I be relevant, or how
Speaker 3: you work if you need a third job, is a
Speaker 3: third life? What does that even look like? I can't
Speaker 3: even wrap my head around that. But I will tell
Speaker 3: you a few study ask people if they would like
Speaker 3: to live two one hundred and twenty five. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: almost sixty percent said, now, well that's what he was right? Yea,
Speaker 3: they don't.
Speaker 4: I would say no, because I can tell you at
Speaker 4: sixty three, I'm already to I'm already beginning to not
Speaker 4: understand the world.
Speaker 5: I feel like technology is running away from me.
Speaker 4: I feel like, in some ways, sensibilities are beyond my
Speaker 4: you know, I grew up at a different time, so
Speaker 4: those you don't feel less relevant. It's not even my relevance.
Speaker 4: It's not like you know, I have to have a
Speaker 4: TV show. It's that because I can feel relevant, I mean.
Speaker 3: Relevant, I mean but knowing tech, being able to know
Speaker 3: the music, their culture, I don't fit.
Speaker 2: I'm not contributing.
Speaker 3: By the way, the other part of that alienation that
Speaker 3: I'm hearing is what's a younger generation going to do
Speaker 3: but the under fifties with somebody who's won twenty five
Speaker 3: and still working because they resent the fact and they're
Speaker 3: not retiring because I need that job. So there's a
Speaker 3: lot of moving parts of that.
Speaker 2: So I don't know.
Speaker 3: But if you told me it's two fifty, I'm on
Speaker 3: a desert island with the Swedish bikini team, Yeah, maybe
Speaker 3: I'm giving that. That said my father who smoked and
Speaker 3: drank and made it to ninety two, almost ninety two.
Speaker 4: If I don't make it to ninety two, I want
Speaker 4: to talk to somebody Google time.
Speaker 5: What do you got?
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, well I love the idea of two poles.
Speaker 8: Although that's that's actually why God invented pillows, So you know,
Speaker 8: you get around that.
Speaker 5: Oh that's a whole new meaning.
Speaker 3: Just step out of the room for a minute.
Speaker 2: We didn't think you.
Speaker 5: Get, let's get let's get back to r D. I
Speaker 5: think Pillow healthcare.
Speaker 2: I think it's what we're looking at. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: oh my god.
Speaker 5: Wow, you did your job.
Speaker 2: You did your job. You did with the pillow.
Speaker 5: I think you completely that already.
Speaker 4: Again, nothing that will help us keep longer, but yes, anything, Well.
Speaker 8: I can't keep people alive longer. I certainly don't know
Speaker 8: more than the doctor, but I do know that.
Speaker 6: According to Statista, a.
Speaker 8: Market consumer data firm, globally, the anti age market as
Speaker 8: of twenty twenty one is sixty two point six billion
Speaker 8: dollars worldwide and it is expected to go up to
Speaker 8: ninety three billion each year in twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 2: I think they should spend as much as they caught
Speaker 2: to help us out.
Speaker 4: And it's the ind Asian market, but it's really what
Speaker 4: does that mean? You mean like the surgeries and the.
Speaker 2: Cost and everything about it.
Speaker 8: Botox, there's all sorts of different laser treatments for your
Speaker 8: chemical peels that we're all familiar with, High.
Speaker 6: Intensity focused ultrasound O.
Speaker 8: Great, why not fillers fillers such as hydrologic acid based gel,
Speaker 8: which gives you a nice defined chin.
Speaker 5: Sure you also have me necessarily, but I hear what
Speaker 5: you're saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's Martha, Peter. I have a son of you.
Speaker 2: That's a compliment. I don't have a chin because that
Speaker 2: will go by David.
Speaker 3: That was I got it with the I'm really upset
Speaker 3: with the pillow thing. I completely blindsided me. That's horrible.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: All I know is what is the prevagon? If you
Speaker 4: eat a jellyfish, you don't lose your mind. I'm eating
Speaker 4: clams NonStop from now until the day I die.
Speaker 2: By the way, I think they should relabel clams soup
Speaker 2: with the age. Okay. I got to tell you right now,
Speaker 2: there's about a billion clams going.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Dorondo, we should be this should be
Speaker 4: eaten before eighteen forty six.
Speaker 6: Really now, really, really.
Speaker 2: Now, really.
Speaker 4: Thank you to our producer's Lori Crimean, David Grugenheim. Thank
Speaker 4: you everybody listening. This is the Really No Really podcast,
Speaker 4: available at the iHeart app, at the Apple App, and
Speaker 4: wherever you get your podcast. If you're watching on YouTube,
Speaker 4: we're here, and remember to like and subscribe, and we
Speaker 4: drop a new episode every Tuesday. How do I know
Speaker 4: that I am aging in dog years from dropping?
Speaker 2: By the way, release drop. Oh you want to release,
Speaker 2: We release the news. Do you think that's better now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it comes out every Tuesday, but something happens Tuesday.
Speaker 3: Yeah really no, really no, really pillows really I got
Speaker 3: I got krried of pillows.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm
Speaker 2: H