Speaker 1: Off the Record is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to another bonus episode of Off the Record.
Speaker 1: I'm your host Jordan Runtug, Thanks so much for listening.
Speaker 1: In our latest chapter, David Bowie went from starman to
Speaker 1: soul man, trading high concept sci fi tales for the
Speaker 1: sounds that enthralled them as a boy, rhythm and blues.
Speaker 1: From the moment he first heard Tutti Fruity back in
Speaker 1: the fifties, he'd wanted to be Little Richard. Somewhere along
Speaker 1: the line, his gold shifted. But when he arrived in
Speaker 1: America in the spring of fo to mount his budget
Speaker 1: busting Diamond Dogs Tour, he began to reconnect with the
Speaker 1: music that had inspired him so long ago. This current
Speaker 1: tour was an overblown spectacle, weighed down with rigid choreography,
Speaker 1: strict music cues, and huge sets, not to mention the
Speaker 1: dark dystopian narrative. Impressive, yes, but all the theatricality didn't
Speaker 1: leave a lot of room for genuine emotion. A little
Speaker 1: David's heart and soul, or in this case, billy soul.
Speaker 1: David's renewed love of R and B was stoked by
Speaker 1: his new girlfriend at the time, a striking young model
Speaker 1: and burgeoning singer named Ava Cherry. They had met at
Speaker 1: an after party for a Stevie Wonder concert in early
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three and quickly hit it off. As she
Speaker 1: would later say, the romance had all the hallmarks of
Speaker 1: a fairy tale strolls in Paris, knights and an elegant castle,
Speaker 1: fancy dinners, cheering crowds, celebrity friends, and lots of great songs.
Speaker 1: Sounds almost like a Disney movie, except for the fact
Speaker 1: that David was still technically married to his wife Banjie.
Speaker 1: That parts a little different. David fostered Ava's budding musical talent,
Speaker 1: recording her as part of a soul trio he'd assembled
Speaker 1: called the Astronets. The group was short lived, but the
Speaker 1: sessions are well worth checking out. In return, Ava acted
Speaker 1: as Bowie's guide for the American R and B scene.
Speaker 1: Her father had been a musician, and she regaled David
Speaker 1: with tales of life on the Black Blue circuit in
Speaker 1: nineteen forties Chicago. She also fulfilled his lifelong dream by
Speaker 1: bringing him up to Harlem's Apollo Theater to see some
Speaker 1: of the hottest R and B acts in the country.
Speaker 1: As we all know, David's reignited passion for soul led
Speaker 1: him to Philadelphia to cut the relentlessly Funky Young Americans.
Speaker 1: The album featured Avid Cherry on backup vocals alongside Robin
Speaker 1: Clark and a young Luther vandros Ava also joined him
Speaker 1: on stage as part of the so called Philly Dogs
Speaker 1: tour in late nineteen seventy four, but she also shared
Speaker 1: his private life as a girlfriend, loving a side of
Speaker 1: David that few would ever get to see. Their relationship
Speaker 1: wouldn't endure, but she continues to honor David and her music.
Speaker 1: Last January, she released a funked up version of Bowie's
Speaker 1: three hit Let's Dance, and this year she joined the
Speaker 1: Star Started virtual tribute concert, belting out ferocious versions of
Speaker 1: Young Americans and Fame, just as she did on the
Speaker 1: original recordings. In addition to recording a new album of
Speaker 1: original songs, she's also working on a film about her
Speaker 1: life with Bowie, which is slated to resume filming this summer.
Speaker 1: If of It nineteen allows if I spoke to me
Speaker 1: about her time with David and the memories of music
Speaker 1: that they shared during those golden years in the mid seventies.
Speaker 1: I supposed to start take me back to the night
Speaker 1: you met David Well, I mean, okay, here it is.
Speaker 1: You know, I just moved to New York. And the
Speaker 1: funny thing is that I was I was I was
Speaker 1: getting a guy who owned a hair salon and I
Speaker 1: was modeling and I, you know, I never lived in
Speaker 1: New York before. I was just getting myself together. And
Speaker 1: my and my friend who owned the UM hair san said,
Speaker 1: listen for the New York New York Times New York
Speaker 1: Daily News, would you um, would you mind reaching if
Speaker 1: we reached your hair blond and short? And uh, I
Speaker 1: was like no, you know, I was game. You know.
Speaker 1: They said we need, we need to bleach your hair
Speaker 1: really like platinum blond and like a short afro. And
Speaker 1: I said okay. So I did it, and I was
Speaker 1: in the in the paper, in the in UM New
Speaker 1: York Times, and so a lot of people saw that
Speaker 1: and whatever, and then I got an agent and all
Speaker 1: this other stuff. So one day my agent comes to
Speaker 1: me and he has this album and he goes, ab listen,
Speaker 1: there's this guy named David Bowie and this is his
Speaker 1: new record. He's British, and he said he's gonna be
Speaker 1: here soon performing a radio city, and you know, I
Speaker 1: just thought you might, you know, like to, you know,
Speaker 1: listen to his record. Now. I don't know how he
Speaker 1: got because David wasn't well known here yet, and he's
Speaker 1: at that he was pretty well known and um in Europe.
Speaker 1: So I took to I said, okay, I took the
Speaker 1: record home and I listened to it, and I mean
Speaker 1: I looked at it the album cover, and I said
Speaker 1: to myself, wow, he's really he's a good looking guy,
Speaker 1: you know, and and I liked it. He's kind of
Speaker 1: strange and he's kind of friend, you know, and something.
Speaker 1: I put it on and I listened to start listening
Speaker 1: to the tracks, and I was just blown away. I
Speaker 1: was just blown away. It was so different. It was
Speaker 1: so different. Moon Next Daydream was my favorite on the
Speaker 1: album with David asked me when he first met me,
Speaker 1: which one I liked the best. But I was also,
Speaker 1: you know, friends with Stevie Wonder at well, I hadn't,
Speaker 1: I hadn't met David yet, but I was friends with
Speaker 1: Stevie Wonder and he was in New York doing his
Speaker 1: show at Carnegie Hall. And so he said, well, you
Speaker 1: know we're gonna do this show, we need a place
Speaker 1: to give a party after it. And I was working
Speaker 1: in this club called Genesis that uh the guy that
Speaker 1: owned the was was the actually steakhouse, Rocky Ioke. He
Speaker 1: owned the Benny Hannas of Tokyo. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you ever remember those, Yeah, remember Rocky Rocky Ioke was
Speaker 1: the guy's name. And he owned also a club called
Speaker 1: Genesis on the East Side. And I worked as a
Speaker 1: as a cock stow waitress in there. And so I
Speaker 1: said to Stevie, I said, well, I work in this
Speaker 1: club called Genesis. I'm sure that let's you give a
Speaker 1: party in there. It's a nice place to give a party.
Speaker 1: So they got ahold of the people and the next
Speaker 1: thing we knew the party was gonna be a Genesis,
Speaker 1: So nither party. I show up and you know, I'm dressed,
Speaker 1: I'm looking fabulous because it was This was right after uh,
Speaker 1: Stevie's concert and he didn't incredible incredible standing ovation concert
Speaker 1: at Carnegie Hall. And so I walk in. As I'm
Speaker 1: walking in, Steve is standing at the door. And Steve
Speaker 1: has just stev wonder as an incredible thing that he
Speaker 1: could sometimes know who's there even when he doesn't see them,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm saying, and if I was walking to us,
Speaker 1: he goes with, maybe you smell my perfume. I don't know,
Speaker 1: he said. He said, is that a Charry? I? How
Speaker 1: do you know it was me? He goes, I know,
Speaker 1: I know, right, So started off the night really good.
Speaker 1: Everybody was in a great movie because, as I said,
Speaker 1: his concert was stellar. I mean, he just sanging his
Speaker 1: heart out, you know, that night, and he got a
Speaker 1: stand in ovation. And so you know, we're downstairs and
Speaker 1: everybody's been invited gladys and I think of reading money
Speaker 1: even there just a lot of more soul artists you
Speaker 1: know that, you know, but some big names. So I'm
Speaker 1: standing there. They start singing. So a song comes on
Speaker 1: and everybody in the rooms just start singing in the room,
Speaker 1: whatever the song was. You know, all the great singers
Speaker 1: are standing there singing like you know, I wasn't really
Speaker 1: a professional singer yet or anything like that, but I
Speaker 1: was standing there with them, right, And so everybody's singing
Speaker 1: and my men and my agent comes up to me, goes,
Speaker 1: you're nothing to believe who's here? I'm like, who's that guy?
Speaker 1: David Bowie. What because right this time I played that
Speaker 1: record about a hundred times and I was like already smitten.
Speaker 1: I was in love and he just was just listening
Speaker 1: to the music and looking at the picture just because
Speaker 1: it was so different and it was so well done.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. He goes, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go get him and introduced to I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god. I was like freaking out cut of inside,
Speaker 1: you know, because he brings him over and David's wearing
Speaker 1: this like a lectric blue suit and he has his
Speaker 1: hair is really high, it's real ziggy, and he was
Speaker 1: red really and so he walks up to me because
Speaker 1: he was this is David Bowie, David, this is Avid Sherry.
Speaker 1: David says to me, it was a pleasure to meet you, Ava,
Speaker 1: and it just I was like, oh my god. And
Speaker 1: he goes, I love your hair, and I said, I
Speaker 1: love your soup. So you know, we both had this
Speaker 1: hair colored thing in common and that I was kind
Speaker 1: of weird and the black thick with you know, blond
Speaker 1: blond everro and so anyway, we start talking and and
Speaker 1: and oh and then they was singing and I was
Speaker 1: kind of singing in between well started, he goes, you're
Speaker 1: a singer, and so I said, well, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean I wasn't a professional yet, but I wasn't
Speaker 1: gonna say no. I mean, any anything I think I
Speaker 1: can do, I'm gonna say yes until you proved me
Speaker 1: that I can't do it. Okay, then then I'll be
Speaker 1: you know, then I can't do it if I can't.
Speaker 1: But anyway, so we were just you know, then we
Speaker 1: started talking and he was like, well, you know, I've
Speaker 1: just done my my first album for America and I'm
Speaker 1: playing video see this weekend. You know, I'm planning a
Speaker 1: a tour, a world tour, and I'm gonna be in Japan,
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking maybe you might be good for this,
Speaker 1: this this part to do this, he said, you know
Speaker 1: the look and everything like that. Now, if you can sing,
Speaker 1: that's really great, you know, and you know you already
Speaker 1: be saying a little bit, but he said, you you'll
Speaker 1: have I said, okay, if you want me to, and
Speaker 1: I said, he said, I'll have to introduce you to
Speaker 1: my manager, Tony Freeze. And you know, we had rehearsal
Speaker 1: tomorrow at our ci A. Can you make the rehearsal
Speaker 1: and do an audition and I said, yeah. So the
Speaker 1: next day, I mean our our Cia and the Spiders
Speaker 1: were there. That's the first time I met them. Actually,
Speaker 1: I didn't really hang out with them too much when
Speaker 1: I first met David. I there was a couple of times,
Speaker 1: like when we did the nineteen eight four show and
Speaker 1: all others where I really worked in in Earl's Court
Speaker 1: and all that, but basically I was I was in
Speaker 1: the same room with the Spiders. It was great, you know,
Speaker 1: so anyway you got God was days. I don't know
Speaker 1: was Storme we did. I sang the manager her and
Speaker 1: he goes, yeah, I think she were great for this part. Right.
Speaker 1: So the next thing I knew, David said to me, okay, listen,
Speaker 1: you know you're gonna have to um what we had
Speaker 1: dinner and you know all the other niceties. And of
Speaker 1: course I was just just fall I was smitten, is
Speaker 1: all I can tell you. I was submitting. Ah. It
Speaker 1: was so nice because after we did the audition, he said, well,
Speaker 1: would you have dinner with me tonight? And I was like,
Speaker 1: and he said, we'll go see a show or something.
Speaker 1: Go and go see a life performance. I think Charlie
Speaker 1: Mingus was with him. Yeah yeah, and I said yeah.
Speaker 1: So like got all dressed up and I met him
Speaker 1: at hotel and he was dressing I was a gentleman,
Speaker 1: he opened the door, he was he was just he
Speaker 1: was just the best. And so we had the most
Speaker 1: wonderful dinner, and then we went to see Charlie Mingus
Speaker 1: and like, I really wasn't into Charlie Mingus because I didn't.
Speaker 1: He was kind of abstract for me. But David was
Speaker 1: really into it, and you know, I got into it.
Speaker 1: I just because I love all music. But I just
Speaker 1: really wasn't familiar with Charlie Mingus when he was telling
Speaker 1: me about him. So when we we we saw that show,
Speaker 1: and so he says, um, well you want to come back,
Speaker 1: and he the Champagne's Hotel and I'm like, yeah, why not.
Speaker 1: Why not. I'm having a glass, I'm having a good time.
Speaker 1: So he was like, well, which song did you like
Speaker 1: the best on on that album? And I said, oh,
Speaker 1: moon Age day Dream. I love it. I fell in
Speaker 1: love with it. I'm so in love with that song.
Speaker 1: He goes, Okay, that's great, you know, And so anyway,
Speaker 1: you know, I spent the night there. Of course I
Speaker 1: spent the night there where else was I gonna go?
Speaker 1: I mean, just wasn't anything better than that to do.
Speaker 1: And we had the most wonderful romantic evening and that
Speaker 1: was how it began. That is a beautiful first day,
Speaker 1: that is that is a first date for the books.
Speaker 1: It really. But there was a problem. The tour never
Speaker 1: came together. What happened there? The tour that he was
Speaker 1: telling me how that they wanted me to do got
Speaker 1: canceled because he got sick. He got the food and
Speaker 1: and they said, oh, so what happened was is I
Speaker 1: I He told me he was gonna call me. I
Speaker 1: have to fill this in. And he said, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: send you the records that you're that you're gonna learn,
Speaker 1: I tell you your ticket and everything that. So um uh,
Speaker 1: you know, we can get everything going. So I said, oh, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: Well I have to go to Chicago and say by
Speaker 1: to my parents before I go to Europe or anything.
Speaker 1: So I quit my job in New York. I I
Speaker 1: got rid of my apartment. I had everything set up,
Speaker 1: and I was doing fine, you know, and and and
Speaker 1: I had the job of Genesis, and then I was
Speaker 1: modeling and singing too whatever and then uh, I get
Speaker 1: home after doing all of that, and three days after
Speaker 1: I was here in Chicago, I get a telegram saying, EVA,
Speaker 1: so sorry, David became ill and we have to cancel
Speaker 1: the tour. I was like, oh my god, oh no, no,
Speaker 1: my whole life here. I am back in Chicago and
Speaker 1: I had my life on the right track. You know,
Speaker 1: how was that? So? I was? I was so depressed
Speaker 1: for a couple of days. I was trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what to do. And I had remembered that this
Speaker 1: guy that was from from Germany, he had a place
Speaker 1: in the south of France and Monaco, and he had
Speaker 1: asked me if I wanted to spend the summer hanging
Speaker 1: out in Monaco. Now, I didn't really want to be
Speaker 1: with him, so when he sol when he asked me,
Speaker 1: I told him no. But when this happened that they
Speaker 1: sent me that telegram, I called him up and I
Speaker 1: told him yes because I just saw that it was
Speaker 1: my only way to get to Europe. I didn't really
Speaker 1: have the money to go, and it was my only
Speaker 1: way to get you know. I heard that he you know,
Speaker 1: David spent time in France and in London, and whether
Speaker 1: he was in Francis, So I said yes, and so anyway,
Speaker 1: he sent me the ticket and the next thing I knew,
Speaker 1: and I've never been a year before, I was in
Speaker 1: Marco and I was like, that's the most beautiful, funny
Speaker 1: place in the world. What the hell are like? Three
Speaker 1: years so great? I mean, I was loving it, he was.
Speaker 1: It was really beautiful. And of course he was rich,
Speaker 1: this guy, so he was chased being very nice. But
Speaker 1: I didn't like him like that, you know, I didn't
Speaker 1: feel romantic, and he was really wanting to be romantic. God,
Speaker 1: I it's nothing worse than a guy. Was we romantic?
Speaker 1: But you were You don't want to be romantic with him?
Speaker 1: So so, but but he was a nice person. I
Speaker 1: didn't want to I wasn't trying to be mean, but
Speaker 1: I did see him as a means to an end
Speaker 1: and I'm being honest. Um. Anyway, So I was there
Speaker 1: for a little while and he had a friend, another
Speaker 1: girl that you know, and it was older and she
Speaker 1: apparently was wealthy to him. Her grandmother given her another
Speaker 1: art uh in the south of France, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: they all hang out together. This was his I suppose
Speaker 1: maybe was somebody who might have been married to or
Speaker 1: whatever before or whatever, and they were still friends anyway.
Speaker 1: To make them a story short, I was starting to
Speaker 1: all I could think of was David, you know, and
Speaker 1: how I just wanted to find him. And and so
Speaker 1: she she she called me up one day and she said, Eva, listen,
Speaker 1: I am seeing that you are not liking Hines, like
Speaker 1: you are not really loving to be with Hines. And
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I wan don't mean to be
Speaker 1: anything me I did. I just I just I just
Speaker 1: want to go to France with something, you know. So
Speaker 1: she goes, would you feel better if you did not
Speaker 1: stay here in the party with him? And and and
Speaker 1: I she said, my grandmother left me an apartment and
Speaker 1: you could stay there if you wanted to, for the
Speaker 1: rest of your time here. And I said okay, So
Speaker 1: she moved me over there. So I was there one
Speaker 1: day and I had met this little nice guy and
Speaker 1: he was having tea with me. Right he comes to
Speaker 1: the guy that invited me comes to the door and
Speaker 1: I opened it and this guy isn't there. But we
Speaker 1: were doing anything even We're just talking, okay. So he goes, Okay,
Speaker 1: I can't see that you don't, you know. He wants
Speaker 1: to be with me, and you want to be with
Speaker 1: somebody else, so you want to go to Paris. I said, well,
Speaker 1: I would like to go to Paris. He said, okay.
Speaker 1: I said, but I need you to give me a
Speaker 1: thousand francs so because you know, so I can you know,
Speaker 1: He said, no, I give you the money, just uh
Speaker 1: And I said, well where do I go? He goes,
Speaker 1: you go to to get try to find a hotel
Speaker 1: in the near the Budleavard Saints your Man and and
Speaker 1: and then you know, try to go to the the
Speaker 1: cafe the floor and that's where all the celebrities hang out.
Speaker 1: That's where everybody hangs out. Here is anybody. So that's
Speaker 1: what I did. I got, I gave me the money.
Speaker 1: I took the train and I got in and I
Speaker 1: checked into this this like all girls, all women's hotel,
Speaker 1: which was right like about five blocks away from the
Speaker 1: boulevards cent Germain, and it was it was nine. He
Speaker 1: was cleaning and so that was it. And then you know,
Speaker 1: after about eight months, I started getting kind of because
Speaker 1: you know, I would be hearing that David was had
Speaker 1: come to Paris. Some different people are reading it in
Speaker 1: the music papers or something, but I never you know,
Speaker 1: you know, it was like maybe one time I read that.
Speaker 1: And so one day I'm in this bar and I
Speaker 1: hear them speaking in French, and I hear them saying, oh,
Speaker 1: David Bowie. H David Bowie es. So when I heard
Speaker 1: his name, I've been running down, said excusion one two
Speaker 1: idea David Bowie. And he said, we I shake a step.
Speaker 1: So he's across the speed. It's Castell. I'm like I really,
Speaker 1: I'm like really, he goes, wait. So I'm like, I
Speaker 1: look cute. I look pretty. But I was not dressed
Speaker 1: as Castel because it was a very you know, pearls
Speaker 1: and diamonds kind of a club. I don't care. I
Speaker 1: just went running across the street. And he had like
Speaker 1: a stairwell that was spiral down, and I went inside
Speaker 1: and I was looking down from a stairwell, looking around.
Speaker 1: And so David's bodyguards Stewie saw me and he comes
Speaker 1: and he goes, have why are you doing here? I said,
Speaker 1: I came to find David. He can't just do me
Speaker 1: like that. I mean we had such a wonderful time
Speaker 1: and and and and I just I quit my job.
Speaker 1: But I was saying right. He goes, oh my god,
Speaker 1: the governor is going to freak out race these you
Speaker 1: called him the governor, the governor, the governor right, And
Speaker 1: he was really caught me. It was like that he
Speaker 1: was a gardenist, gup when he sees you, mate, you
Speaker 1: know that anyway, So he so David was sitting talking
Speaker 1: to this woman that was dripping in diamonds and pearls. Right,
Speaker 1: he was talking to her, and so he has my hand.
Speaker 1: He pulls me up to in front of David. David
Speaker 1: looking at her and all said. He turns it. He
Speaker 1: sees me. He goes, Eva, what are you doing here?
Speaker 1: And I was like, I came to find you. I
Speaker 1: came to find you. I didn't want you to leave me.
Speaker 1: I was, I quit my job and went home. And
Speaker 1: then you said he was canceled, and he was like,
Speaker 1: oh wow. He says, I'm really sorry. I got ill.
Speaker 1: He said, but you came over You came all the
Speaker 1: way over here just to find me. And I was
Speaker 1: like yes. He was like, oh wow. So he was
Speaker 1: talking to her and then to see he sit sit down,
Speaker 1: I said, now. And the next thing, now he says
Speaker 1: something there and then he goes let's go. And that
Speaker 1: was it. And we walked out and got a limousine,
Speaker 1: even went to Doeville, which we had the most ro
Speaker 1: magic evening was soon. Doeville is the studio where he
Speaker 1: was recording pin ups built in a in a former castle.
Speaker 1: He took me to a literal castle, I mean, the
Speaker 1: fairy tale continues. Oh my god, Oh my god. It
Speaker 1: was a castle that because I've never been in a
Speaker 1: seventeenth century castle like that before. You know, you just
Speaker 1: go on to England and go to and it was
Speaker 1: it had like you know, fireplaces that were as big
Speaker 1: as a wall, you know, like that, you know, and
Speaker 1: they had made it into a recording studio and we
Speaker 1: spent like a week there. It was heaven. Wow, that
Speaker 1: was That was how it began. Now what were you do?
Speaker 1: What did you do when he when he wasn't busy
Speaker 1: sort of attending to the business of being David Bowie
Speaker 1: touring and recording and all that. Well, what did you
Speaker 1: like to do together? What would how would you like
Speaker 1: to spend a day or a night out in the
Speaker 1: town together? What would you love to do together? Oh? Well,
Speaker 1: we used to we would go and have dinner and
Speaker 1: we walked by the sin and we would you know,
Speaker 1: we'd go see other artists perform, you know, like you know, uh,
Speaker 1: Brian Ferry. He and Brian Ferry were good friends too,
Speaker 1: and you know, um they were great. We'd go, you know,
Speaker 1: whoever would be performing. But basically he just liked to,
Speaker 1: you know, do because that that wasn't doing a drug
Speaker 1: time for David, he wasn't he wasn't doing drugs when
Speaker 1: I met him. He would smoke a little hash or
Speaker 1: something and drink red wine. So he was always he
Speaker 1: was so different. He was like so warm, you know,
Speaker 1: because he wasn't doing those things. And this is like,
Speaker 1: you know, the first year that I knew him, he
Speaker 1: wasn't doing drugs, so so I know and so and
Speaker 1: then of course he loves to make love and that
Speaker 1: was that was a favorite of ours. Yeah, no, at
Speaker 1: what point did you did you know that that Andree
Speaker 1: was also in the picture? Well too, three I knew
Speaker 1: it early when I didn't because you let me finish
Speaker 1: the story about when we were in the hotel and
Speaker 1: the next morning, I was like when we first met
Speaker 1: him in New York, and I was so excited and
Speaker 1: I felt like, wow, I feel like I'm in love
Speaker 1: and I don't know, I've never really felt like this before.
Speaker 1: I mean, I really was serious what I said. I
Speaker 1: I hadn't because he was so different. And so we're
Speaker 1: lying there and all of a sudden the phone rings
Speaker 1: and he answers it, and he said he look and
Speaker 1: he said okay, okay, So he must have said Angie
Speaker 1: was downstairs and send her up. So the door knocks,
Speaker 1: he goes and answers, doing his Angie. He opens the door,
Speaker 1: and I have a role his role on and so
Speaker 1: Andie was said, i'd seen you, darling, and he goes, Angie,
Speaker 1: this is able, cheery. Hello. She kisses me and hugs me.
Speaker 1: This is you know. I just I just I have
Speaker 1: to go back to London tomorrow night. And so I
Speaker 1: just wanted to stop and say something to before before
Speaker 1: I went, I'm seeing here like what I'm like. So
Speaker 1: I didn't say much because I didn't know what to say.
Speaker 1: This is different. Yeah. So then she goes, okay, I
Speaker 1: have to go now, I have to go now. She
Speaker 1: was only there like fifteen minutes, maybe in fifteen minutes,
Speaker 1: but she was real nice to me and she leaves.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know how I was gonna say it
Speaker 1: to him. I said, so, David, why didn't you tell
Speaker 1: me you were married? I said, all right, I don't
Speaker 1: know if I would have been here right now if
Speaker 1: I if i'd known that, And so he said, he says, oh, no,
Speaker 1: we have an open marriage. She has a girlfriend and something,
Speaker 1: she has a boyfriend and you know, and she does
Speaker 1: what she wants and I do it. I'm like, really,
Speaker 1: are you serious? He goes, yeah, It's been that way
Speaker 1: for a couple of years. So by that time I
Speaker 1: was already hooked. I was already submitting there was nothing
Speaker 1: I could do. But how it felt, I wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: let him go. Listen, Jordan's I didn't know. You know,
Speaker 1: you're a man. But I'm telling you I wasn't gonna
Speaker 1: let him go. I said, well, honey, if he says,
Speaker 1: and she's fine with you know me, you know, being
Speaker 1: with you, And I said, well, she may not be
Speaker 1: to myself, I said, you may not'll be fine. After
Speaker 1: I finished here, but I wanted to ask you about
Speaker 1: the recording sessions you did with David for the astron Nets.
Speaker 1: What was he like working with in the studio? Like
Speaker 1: I imagine he must have been a real perfectionist. Oh
Speaker 1: he was, but but but he was, you know, he
Speaker 1: was a perfectionist. But he was just kind of already
Speaker 1: know what he really wanted. So he he made it
Speaker 1: feel comfortable. He made it feel fun, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't it never felt like Oh god, according with
Speaker 1: this guy was like it was fun. I had a
Speaker 1: boff and you know he would uh you know, no,
Speaker 1: just I mean that's basically it. I mean every anything
Speaker 1: we worked on, like, you know, we worked on the Asternists,
Speaker 1: which were all which were meant to be only demos
Speaker 1: because we hadn't finished them, and he told me we
Speaker 1: were going to finish them. But then he had this
Speaker 1: thing with Tony the Freeze, with the whole thing about
Speaker 1: the money, and so he had to stop producing me
Speaker 1: and and and it never got finished and Tony went
Speaker 1: a hit and released it with just demos. Oh I see,
Speaker 1: what is there a lesson from him that that that
Speaker 1: you learned from him during these sessions that sort of
Speaker 1: sticks with you this to this day. What's something that
Speaker 1: that he taught you? Musically? Oh my god, he taught
Speaker 1: me a lot of things, not just musically, but and
Speaker 1: me taught me to appreciate you know, a lot of things,
Speaker 1: you know, classical music, all music. I mean, I I
Speaker 1: love clastomer music now because I started out with Vivaldi,
Speaker 1: with him and and and and in films, German expressionism
Speaker 1: and Andy Warhol and I mean, he taught me a
Speaker 1: lot of things. I was. I was a savvy, street
Speaker 1: smart young lady, but he you know, I wasn't. I
Speaker 1: wasn't an intellectual, but now I am. And so he
Speaker 1: taught me. You know, he taught me how to you know,
Speaker 1: work the stage and the lights. You know, when we
Speaker 1: were on stage together, he go, Okay, I want you
Speaker 1: to to come. I want you to go to the stairs.
Speaker 1: I want you to be at the top and the
Speaker 1: spot's gonna be on you, and I want you to
Speaker 1: slowly come down the stairs and then I want you
Speaker 1: to start to sing blah blah blah. So he just
Speaker 1: taught He was my mentor, you know, he taught me.
Speaker 1: You know, it wasn't just a love relationship, which which
Speaker 1: I mean, I I did love him. He's the He's
Speaker 1: the first man I really loved like that. And um,
Speaker 1: but he just taught me, you know, how to how
Speaker 1: to handle my stuff like one one time. I remember
Speaker 1: we were at an Andy Warhol party and and they
Speaker 1: were drinking, you know, great champagne. I love champagne. And
Speaker 1: so I was drinking and I was getting a little
Speaker 1: bit drunk. I had learned how to drink it to
Speaker 1: a point where I didn't feel drunk yet, but I
Speaker 1: got a little drunk. And so was the other side
Speaker 1: of the room and David. I was talking to somebody
Speaker 1: and then I wasn't talking to me. David walks over
Speaker 1: to me and he goes, Ava, so listen you you're
Speaker 1: a little bit of drawn card ship. And I said, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I am. He goes, okay, but you know
Speaker 1: when the press is looking at you and it's can
Speaker 1: your pictures? So do you want to be in the
Speaker 1: in the magazine or the paper tomorrow, you know, looking drunk?
Speaker 1: And I said no. He goes, well, well I just
Speaker 1: told you, and you with me, and as I immediately
Speaker 1: stopped and it never happened again because I just I
Speaker 1: didn't realize that that the that the press was taking
Speaker 1: my pictures all the time. If I was near him,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. That must have just been
Speaker 1: the energy shift of walking into a room together. That
Speaker 1: must have been strange to be on the receiving end
Speaker 1: of all those flashbulbs and all that. I mean the
Speaker 1: first it was At first it was kind of strange,
Speaker 1: but then I got used to it. No, but I'm
Speaker 1: just saying I didn't he but he was being so
Speaker 1: honest with me. He wasn't angry with me because I
Speaker 1: was done. He was just saying, don't do it outside
Speaker 1: of the house because people to take your picture and
Speaker 1: try to make you look bad, you know. And so
Speaker 1: I appreciated that he did that. He told me that
Speaker 1: it was. It was and and and when from then
Speaker 1: on him, whenever we would go out nothing, I would
Speaker 1: just be you know. So yeah, it was just I
Speaker 1: just he taught me so many things, Jordan, I can't
Speaker 1: even just say one, but the music, you know, and
Speaker 1: we appreciate. He loved soul music, which is why we
Speaker 1: ended up with the other Americans. And he was like,
Speaker 1: I want to do a soul record. I love Marvin
Speaker 1: Gaye and Rita Franklin and Michael Jackson. And he says,
Speaker 1: you know, and that was when we started talking about
Speaker 1: doing a solo album. What was it like going up
Speaker 1: to the Apollo together and seeing the main ingredient in
Speaker 1: the spinners. I mean, that must have been incredible. He
Speaker 1: must have flipped. Well, he because I've seen all those
Speaker 1: people before. But I'm saying yeah, because I said to him,
Speaker 1: he goes, well, where do we go? And so we
Speaker 1: got to go to Apollo, which is where all the
Speaker 1: great groups performed. And he said, okay, well I gotta
Speaker 1: find some people. So somebody attached him to Carlos and
Speaker 1: and and because Calls was with the main ingredient and
Speaker 1: and so he sent me on to New York. And
Speaker 1: then he came like two weeks later, and then we
Speaker 1: we went to the Apollo. We drove up to the
Speaker 1: Apollo in the limousine and you know that he had
Speaker 1: on a red suit with the red hair and I had.
Speaker 1: We drove up and all these black people were standing
Speaker 1: on the corn and they go, who's that. I said,
Speaker 1: that's David Bowie. He said, David Bowie. I said, David Bowie.
Speaker 1: He's like, oh, okay, okay, you guys have fun. It
Speaker 1: was it was just some funny. You know. They no
Speaker 1: black people did not know David until I started being
Speaker 1: with him. And you know that they really didn't. They
Speaker 1: didn't appreciate him until afterwards. Okay, that we did, Young Americans.
Speaker 1: And so then we went in and we were watchingly.
Speaker 1: Was Richard Pryor too, was on that bill, The Spinners,
Speaker 1: the the Temptations, the main ingredient. And David just enjoyed
Speaker 1: that show so much. He enjoyed it so much, he
Speaker 1: was like wow. So then he had already uh, somebody
Speaker 1: had put him in touch with with with Carlos, I guess.
Speaker 1: And so that was what happened. And the next thing
Speaker 1: we knew, Um, David had already decided where we were
Speaker 1: gonna record, which was a Sigma Sound, and that was
Speaker 1: where they bought Luther to the studio, and that's where
Speaker 1: he met Luca van Dross. Oh well, I mean all
Speaker 1: those incredible Philly soul records coming from Sigma Sound, I
Speaker 1: mean that, what were those sessions like with Luther Van
Speaker 1: Dress and Robin Clark and Carlos Alamar, What were those
Speaker 1: those sessions like? Those must have been fun? Well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were hard work, though hard work, you know, we
Speaker 1: we I mean and even though we did have fun
Speaker 1: doing it. I mean I had I had fun because
Speaker 1: I was with David. I mean I was after, but
Speaker 1: but it was when when we were in the studio,
Speaker 1: it was hard when David didn't David was about getting
Speaker 1: the work done, so he wasn't about playing around. We
Speaker 1: were in there and we were all working real hard,
Speaker 1: especially on that song, right, that was the hardest song
Speaker 1: in the world to do Lord and Mercenes. He was sorry,
Speaker 1: but it was. It was. It was a great experience.
Speaker 1: And the funny thing about the Philly sound people is
Speaker 1: that he had asked those guys to all play on
Speaker 1: the record and they didn't do it because I think
Speaker 1: they were kind of scared about him being a white
Speaker 1: artist and they had always been, um, you know, black
Speaker 1: artists that they had some stuff with. So he's so
Speaker 1: but they didn't mind when they said no. He just
Speaker 1: got his own band together, you know, he was just here,
Speaker 1: very independent. Your father was also a musician, and it
Speaker 1: sounds like David got a lot of sort of style
Speaker 1: tips from your dad. Like how did they get along? Oh?
Speaker 1: My dad was like, you know, the coolest dude. He
Speaker 1: was like, they got along like a house on fire.
Speaker 1: Please believe me, I I M I. He came to
Speaker 1: my house, my parents house, and uh for dinner and
Speaker 1: he saw my dad's I was showing him, like, this
Speaker 1: is where my dad was in a in he opened.
Speaker 1: He was with a band called Benny Laysam Band and
Speaker 1: they opened for like Comvasie and some other people wherever
Speaker 1: and and and um. They wore these zooe suits in
Speaker 1: the in the in the band stand, and so I said,
Speaker 1: this is my dad's zoos suits. And but if he
Speaker 1: was like what, so, then I think he tried to
Speaker 1: jack it on and it looked really cool on him.
Speaker 1: So he had Freddie to knock off suits that were
Speaker 1: similar to that guster look. And that's where the word
Speaker 1: guster came from from me. I'm the one that told
Speaker 1: him about the Gowsters in Chicago. They all wore baggy
Speaker 1: pants and they all were big, you know suits, suits
Speaker 1: kind of close. And what does the word mean. It's
Speaker 1: basically like cool dude, Yeah, gowster, you know instead of gangster.
Speaker 1: I never made that connection. Yeah yeah, so, but I
Speaker 1: mean they made everybody keeps trying to say talk about
Speaker 1: that word. He only knew it about that word because
Speaker 1: of me. I mean, nobody nobody else knews. And he
Speaker 1: started changing making songs and you know, the gowster and
Speaker 1: all that and I was like, okay, whatever, and all
Speaker 1: the clothes you know that that outfit with you know,
Speaker 1: the flight suit that was my flight suit, and the
Speaker 1: shoes he had on. The shoes too, I didn't know
Speaker 1: the shoes too. He could wear my he could wear
Speaker 1: my shoes, could leave it. I got a big seat, though,
Speaker 1: I gotta I wear like nine. But anyway, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, he really dug my dad, and
Speaker 1: my dad dug him. That was a musician, so he
Speaker 1: was totally into the mentality. You know, one of my
Speaker 1: great heroes is John Lennon. Tell me about being at
Speaker 1: the Electric Lady Studios sessions for for Fame and across
Speaker 1: the universe. I've been that. That was so incredible because
Speaker 1: you know in the you know, in the museum pieces
Speaker 1: that you remember David, David Bowie is in all the
Speaker 1: countries that it was in and everything like that. Oh,
Speaker 1: the exhibitions, Yeah, yeah, right, I represented here in Chicago.
Speaker 1: I didn't know it myself, but in some of the
Speaker 1: plastic cases that they had David's artifacts in, David had
Speaker 1: his diary and there was this one page and my
Speaker 1: friends said, didn't you see didn't you see this about you?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what there was maybe two things and
Speaker 1: that he wrote down about me and his diary. But
Speaker 1: he said, today I introduced Ava to a beatle. Today.
Speaker 1: What I say, I couldn't believe it. It was just
Speaker 1: one page. Then they took it out and they put
Speaker 1: it in the in the click case, and he said,
Speaker 1: today I introduced Ava to a beatle, and we're going
Speaker 1: to do We're gonna work on a song called Fame.
Speaker 1: And that was that was how I'm sorry. Wow, David
Speaker 1: doesn't strike me as somebody who's easily star struck, but
Speaker 1: I imagine that it's hard not to be around with
Speaker 1: John Lennon. Oh no, no, so then, but we were
Speaker 1: in Alexi, late Land, waiting for him, right, We're all
Speaker 1: set up and everything. He goes, he turns around to me.
Speaker 1: He goes, wow, I wonder if he's He says, I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to be gentleman. He goes, I wonder if
Speaker 1: he wears those granny glasses all the time. And so
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, the doorbell rings, the door opens,
Speaker 1: and there's John with the granny glasses on. It was
Speaker 1: like unbelievable. David turns around me and looked he goes, oh,
Speaker 1: he's got on right. So then John comes in David, right,
Speaker 1: you know, they were talking like that and everything, and
Speaker 1: he was like, it's a pleasure to work because he
Speaker 1: made that's a pleasure and pleasure. So then they started
Speaker 1: they were talking and whatever, and John was jamming on
Speaker 1: the twelve string and he was playing across the universe.
Speaker 1: It was so beautiful. He was playing. You know, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm really enjoying itself today. You know, there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of sessions I love or enjoy, and I'm really
Speaker 1: enjoying myself today. And David just looked and said, oh, really, yeah,
Speaker 1: that is so great. Then Yoko comes in with a
Speaker 1: great big tray sushi and said that but lunch, and
Speaker 1: she puts it down and she leaves. And I understood
Speaker 1: exactly why they didn't like her. It was because she
Speaker 1: was women's lived and I didn't I didn't know what
Speaker 1: until I met her. She was like women's rights, women
Speaker 1: being treated equally. And that was what how John treated her.
Speaker 1: He treats her like a fleet and so that was
Speaker 1: that was what happened there. But it was it was
Speaker 1: And so then h and when you know the tha
Speaker 1: thaa hey, did that part right there. David tells me
Speaker 1: go in there and just keep saying ba ba babying
Speaker 1: thing ba baby. I said, why he goes, just do it.
Speaker 1: So I went in and I and I did it.
Speaker 1: And that's what they ended up with here between his
Speaker 1: voice and and and John's and mine mixed together. That
Speaker 1: is an incredible trio. That's gotta be fun being part
Speaker 1: of that trio. Oh, it was so much fun. It
Speaker 1: was so it was so and like I said, I
Speaker 1: didn't know why he asked me to do it because
Speaker 1: I didn't have never heard of them doing it like that,
Speaker 1: but it was so that was great and and and
Speaker 1: then then after we finished doing the session, we went
Speaker 1: back to the Dakota and he had dinner with them,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, and we just sat up all
Speaker 1: night and and we just had the best time with
Speaker 1: with Yoko and John. John always seemed like he had
Speaker 1: an incredible sense of humor. He must have that must
Speaker 1: have made you leave, would make you laugh and stuff.
Speaker 1: He would just it was really hysterical. And uh. And
Speaker 1: and she had like this this this herbal room, you know,
Speaker 1: because in the Dakota it's like nine huge rooms, like
Speaker 1: in a big house in a mansion, and they had like,
Speaker 1: well maybe at nine, but at least six big rooms.
Speaker 1: And she had one room where she did her art
Speaker 1: and and everything like that in one room where she
Speaker 1: had her her plants and her herbs and all of
Speaker 1: that other stuff. And she was real sweet. It's real sweet.
Speaker 1: I know that David hung out with Mick quite a
Speaker 1: bit Mick Jagger during this period. What was their relationship like?
Speaker 1: Was it a rivalry? Was it a friendship? Was that
Speaker 1: all the It wasn't It wasn't a rivalry. It was
Speaker 1: those two tough guys, two guys that are hot during
Speaker 1: the same period, two different kind of genres because David
Speaker 1: was Glham rock and Nick was like, you know the
Speaker 1: honkey talk blues, you know rocker, you know what I'm saying, um,
Speaker 1: And and they were they were. They admired one another,
Speaker 1: They admired what one another did, and so we used
Speaker 1: to hang out together and go out to dinner together
Speaker 1: and party together and all that other stuff, and they
Speaker 1: became good friends. One of my favorite songs from from
Speaker 1: Young Americans Can You Hear Me, which I believe David
Speaker 1: wrote for you, What is what is it like that
Speaker 1: David didn't can you hear me? From me? He? Can
Speaker 1: you hear me? He were way back, was Lulu. But
Speaker 1: but I mean, I don't know whether he did or not.
Speaker 1: He never told me did. I'm just saying that when
Speaker 1: I was first with him, he wrote it, and then
Speaker 1: Lulu sang it, and I I didn't know. Sometimes David
Speaker 1: would write songs he wouldn't tell the person if it
Speaker 1: was about them or not. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: But it would be like the songs that would be
Speaker 1: about me would be like stay, stay, It's what I
Speaker 1: had to stay or do something. What I never stay
Speaker 1: is stay this time. I meant you so bad because
Speaker 1: when we held, because you could never really tell when
Speaker 1: somebody wants something you want to so it was about
Speaker 1: me wanting to be a superstar too. I did and
Speaker 1: and and that was one song stay. And there was
Speaker 1: the other song, Golden Years. Listen to the words don't
Speaker 1: let me hear you say? Lives taking You know where
Speaker 1: angel In walked luck and you looked in time always
Speaker 1: walked tall at fine because he walked in and I
Speaker 1: and reattached to each other. And from then on he
Speaker 1: was trying to help me. And he saw you know,
Speaker 1: and so you know, and I was that I was
Speaker 1: young and I was super young, you know, and he
Speaker 1: was that. So there's a there's a there's a lot
Speaker 1: of things like that. Those two songs Scolden Years and
Speaker 1: Stay that must bring back when you hear them, just
Speaker 1: so many memories and well, I can't imagine what that's
Speaker 1: like to hear a song that that, that's that enormous
Speaker 1: and know, oh, that's that's about me. I'm a part
Speaker 1: of that. How is that? You know? I know, I
Speaker 1: know he did. But he used to make me feel
Speaker 1: sad east Man me feel sad and tearful. But now
Speaker 1: now I you know, I just enjoyed it. I know
Speaker 1: that it was about me. I hope you feel proud.
Speaker 1: Oh I feel proud. I do, I do. I I mean,
Speaker 1: I know because when when David and I broke up,
Speaker 1: it wasn't because of anything liked be cheating on him
Speaker 1: or him cheating on me, or me doing something wrong.
Speaker 1: It was because of the business and may Men was
Speaker 1: all messed up and they and the money was all
Speaker 1: crazy and he didn't know where his money was and
Speaker 1: all that. So he just wanted to break from everybody
Speaker 1: anything that seemed response that he had to be responsible
Speaker 1: for instand. And so I stayed in love with him
Speaker 1: for so long because I knew I didn't do anything
Speaker 1: wrong for us to break up. It wasn't It was
Speaker 1: just a purple stance. And and you know, I mean
Speaker 1: I was loyal to him to the end. To me,
Speaker 1: I was, you know. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: the people that were around him they hated that I
Speaker 1: was with him, that I was there so long, because
Speaker 1: I think they thought, as I think Angie thought that
Speaker 1: I was just gonna be like, you know, a couple
Speaker 1: of months and I was gonna be a flash in
Speaker 1: the pan. But I told you she made a mistake
Speaker 1: when she did that. Was that seems like such a
Speaker 1: difficult period, I mean in Los Angeles in ninety five,
Speaker 1: when when you were living with Claudia Jennings, and that
Speaker 1: seems like such a dark period. I mean, just what
Speaker 1: was it a business and money issues? Was it just
Speaker 1: the people? He was? It was business the money issues?
Speaker 1: Because when when I when when he had to go
Speaker 1: to l A. He said to me, you know, leaving
Speaker 1: to morrow Fair, l A. And you know, the guy
Speaker 1: had got me an apartment. May Man got me an apartment,
Speaker 1: but it was just I was by myself. I would
Speaker 1: have been by myself, and you know, I was really
Speaker 1: so truthfully, I don't know. I was always getting into
Speaker 1: these magical situations where something was saved me from to
Speaker 1: older disaster. And I was crying and I the phone
Speaker 1: rang and I answered it and it was my girlfriend Claudia,
Speaker 1: and she said, hey, but I mean, I'm in New York.
Speaker 1: What are you doing there? Let's see you. I was
Speaker 1: crying and says, why are you crying? You? And I said, well,
Speaker 1: breaking up with David, and I'm I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do and he's gonna leave me here and I
Speaker 1: just feel kind of like I don't know what to
Speaker 1: do with myself. And she goes, well why, I said, well,
Speaker 1: he's going through some money problems and things. She said,
Speaker 1: you stay right there til I get there. So she
Speaker 1: came over and he didn't know who she was because
Speaker 1: I never talked about her. The doorbell ring, she comes
Speaker 1: in and she was just really ballsy, you know, white
Speaker 1: girl that just was like a playmate that you know,
Speaker 1: all the man had a fucking drop dead body and
Speaker 1: everything like that, but she would think like a man.
Speaker 1: I mean, she would do business like a man. She
Speaker 1: was really like, you know, she was just a tough broad,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. And all the men loved
Speaker 1: her because she was beautiful, but she had brains. And
Speaker 1: so she she comes in, she goes, she walks over
Speaker 1: to him and she I said, this is my girlfriend,
Speaker 1: Clay and David he goes, hello, she goes. She didn't
Speaker 1: even give him the nicety. She said, why are you
Speaker 1: Are you gonna leave able here by herself and you're
Speaker 1: gonna go somewhere else? And after all this time you've
Speaker 1: been together, and you know, and what does she do?
Speaker 1: She does something wrong and she started talking for me.
Speaker 1: So he's looking at her like, who is this bitch? Yeah?
Speaker 1: But the truth of the matter me is that he
Speaker 1: was respecting her because he knew that what she was
Speaker 1: saying was right. He was, well, I can't go into
Speaker 1: explain you right now, but you know, I gotta go tomorrow.
Speaker 1: And so she goes, okay, well I'm taking her with me.
Speaker 1: I'm taking order to Jamaica, a new we go to
Speaker 1: Barbados and then we're gonna go back to l A. No,
Speaker 1: she had said to l A Y. So he just
Speaker 1: said okay like that. So we said our goodbyes and
Speaker 1: she said pack your things. I packed my stuff and
Speaker 1: she just whisked me off and that was it. I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened to the apartment they got for me,
Speaker 1: because I never went. I just went with her. And
Speaker 1: she saved me, because she saved me all kinds of ways.
Speaker 1: She saved me mentally because I would have been like
Speaker 1: destroyed mentally, like what am I gonna do with myself now?
Speaker 1: And and she saved me that she took me to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, because she was really good friends with Chris
Speaker 1: black But who owned Diving Island Records, and he was
Speaker 1: in love with her, so we wouldn't stayed with Chris
Speaker 1: and everything for a while, and we had a ball.
Speaker 1: Then we ended up back in l A. This is
Speaker 1: where she lived, and she lived up to Wonderland and
Speaker 1: so we're there and I had I had told David's lawyer, Um, Michael,
Speaker 1: who's Michael's last name? Yeah, Michael Littman. You know, you
Speaker 1: know what I do. You don't remember Michael Littman. And
Speaker 1: I called him when I got to l A with her,
Speaker 1: and I said, Michael, listen, can you please a Stavid
Speaker 1: to call me, please tell him that I'd love to
Speaker 1: talk to him. And so he goes, I'll tell him.
Speaker 1: So he did, and he was a full moon that night.
Speaker 1: I remember the phone raings and so she answers it
Speaker 1: and she goes, oh hey, okay, she answer me me.
Speaker 1: He goes, hello, Johnny said David, you know. He goes,
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? I said, well, we went
Speaker 1: through the islands, and then you know, she caught he
Speaker 1: lives here. He goes, she lives here? And I said,
Speaker 1: he she's she lives with Laura Kenyon. He goes, that's
Speaker 1: where I am. He goes, I'll be down there in
Speaker 1: ten minutes. I said, okay, So I told her. I said,
Speaker 1: he said he was coming down. She's that's okay. It
Speaker 1: was a cool bit. It was really it's really cool.
Speaker 1: My god, she got she died. She died really young.
Speaker 1: She died when she was like your thirty one. She's
Speaker 1: in a car accident, a really bad car accent on
Speaker 1: on Pacifical Sideway. But anyway, uh yeah, she has her
Speaker 1: Her life was brief. But anyway, so the doorbell rings.
Speaker 1: It's David, and I'm so happy to see him. I mean,
Speaker 1: my eyes. I know, my eyes looked like I was
Speaker 1: happy because I was. I just missed him so much,
Speaker 1: and so, you know, we hugged, and so I looked
Speaker 1: down and I see he has two suitcases, and that's
Speaker 1: the David, why have you got your suitcases? He goes,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stay with you guys for a while. I'm like,
Speaker 1: this isn't my house. That's where it got. I said,
Speaker 1: this isn't my house, you know, And so Claudia standing there,
Speaker 1: I said, Claudia, she goes, that's okay, that's okay, I'll
Speaker 1: work out something. I mean, this is how she was talking.
Speaker 1: She wasn't she was a phased or upset about any
Speaker 1: of it. She was actually intrigued by him because she
Speaker 1: knew who he was. So she was intrigued. So she
Speaker 1: was like, she was an adventurous girl and she like
Speaker 1: the adventure. So the next thing we knew, he spent
Speaker 1: the night there, and because her boyfriend lived there, Bobby Hart,
Speaker 1: who was who made the monkey, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Bobby boys that was I mean, Bobby Hart, that was
Speaker 1: her boyfriend man. And so anyway, so the next day
Speaker 1: she comes, she goes, listen to donning. I fixed it
Speaker 1: I wish. I asked Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner could
Speaker 1: borrow their apartment for about two months and there and
Speaker 1: there in Europe. So they said yes. So it had
Speaker 1: like a two bedroom apartment and uh conda. So we
Speaker 1: went there and we stayed there for about a month
Speaker 1: and a half something like that, all three of you,
Speaker 1: or just you and David, No, all three of us.
Speaker 1: She had her own her own room and we had ours. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, that still didn't save us, because he
Speaker 1: was going through still his mental things about what had
Speaker 1: happened to him. Plus he was, you know, there was
Speaker 1: you know, he was being plagued by all these um people,
Speaker 1: Alistair Crawley people and people that he was feeling like things,
Speaker 1: you know, accult things are going on and all that
Speaker 1: other stuff that kind of in that vibe by that time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seemed like he was dealing with a lot of
Speaker 1: personal demons at that time. Yeah. Yeah, and I and
Speaker 1: I was, and we had you know, we it was
Speaker 1: like I knew to myself, I said, well, this is
Speaker 1: probably it, because I could see that he was still
Speaker 1: very much affected by this what was going on, and
Speaker 1: it was it was super emotional to him. So you know,
Speaker 1: that was one of the last times we sawed each other.
Speaker 1: We started each other couple more times, and he advinted
Speaker 1: Marilyn and Rose House and he invited me there. Oh wow,
Speaker 1: what what was that like at Maryland's house? It was?
Speaker 1: It was it was beautiful. It was kind of creepy
Speaker 1: because I was like, is this Maryland's house something? Really?
Speaker 1: I mean it was a beautiful house, so at nice
Speaker 1: pool and everything. And so I think we were I
Speaker 1: think we were good until Claudia decided she was like
Speaker 1: dating Ronnie Wood and they invited her. They invited us
Speaker 1: to man talk when they were doing the Steal Drums
Speaker 1: tour rehearsing. So she asked me if I wanted to go,
Speaker 1: and I and I said yes because Ronnie said bring Ava.
Speaker 1: So because Ronnie was a friend of ours and David
Speaker 1: used to were allays staying out together. So we got there,
Speaker 1: and you know, Mick and I and and David had
Speaker 1: all hung out together before, so Mick knew me real well, right,
Speaker 1: and and we we got there and so apparently Mick
Speaker 1: had gotten into an accident. He fell through a glass
Speaker 1: and and cut his arms, so he had his arm
Speaker 1: in a sling and so we were all they were rehearsing,
Speaker 1: and so it was all laughing and having a good time.
Speaker 1: And now El said, Nick walked in and he saw
Speaker 1: me and he was like, oh wow, ab able do it,
Speaker 1: And so he was making a lot study short. At
Speaker 1: the end of the night, I ended up hanging out
Speaker 1: with Mick because I knew Mick like that, you know,
Speaker 1: And so in my group of Claudia and she was saying, Weroni.
Speaker 1: And but some kind of way, David heard about it,
Speaker 1: and I think that was the last straw that was
Speaker 1: That was the thing that made him, that made us
Speaker 1: break up, because even though I've never done anything there,
Speaker 1: I mean, never ever done any um betrayed him with
Speaker 1: any other man, you know when we were together. I
Speaker 1: think it was when because things were so sensitive, and
Speaker 1: my thing about Mick was that he was a friend
Speaker 1: and I needed somebody to reach out to that new
Speaker 1: David jame Stone I saying, yeah, I needed I needed, Yes,
Speaker 1: I needed that emotional that we had all hung out
Speaker 1: together and laughed and had a good time and I
Speaker 1: felt comfortable with being around Mick. But you know, David
Speaker 1: didn't see it like that. So you know, when I
Speaker 1: tried to call him. I tried call him and I
Speaker 1: called me a man. I said, can you please as
Speaker 1: David to call me? And so one of the girls said,
Speaker 1: he's he's mad at you, And I said, what because
Speaker 1: because he heard you up in line talk with with
Speaker 1: Mick with the Stones. And I said, oh, And there
Speaker 1: was really nothing I could say because it was what
Speaker 1: it was. And but I still loved him. The only
Speaker 1: reason that I reached out to, you know, is because
Speaker 1: I we were all friends and he was such a
Speaker 1: cool guy. But I also just felt emotionally kind of
Speaker 1: good with him, you know what I'm saying, And so um,
Speaker 1: and I was just desperate to be around anybody that
Speaker 1: we were together, that we have been together with somebody,
Speaker 1: and and and so you know, I guess I didn't
Speaker 1: really realize that, you know, that he would be jealous,
Speaker 1: that you know of that, And but I guess I
Speaker 1: guess that's that's a feather in my cap that he
Speaker 1: would be because a lot of men might not have
Speaker 1: been you know what I'm saying. I guess I guess
Speaker 1: I guess I must have missed something. So, you know,
Speaker 1: but like I said, I still I still carried on
Speaker 1: loving him for such a long time after that. Do
Speaker 1: you remember the last time you were in touch with David,
Speaker 1: either in person or on the phone. Oh no, A
Speaker 1: long time, long long. By the time I tried to
Speaker 1: reach out to him, like, uh, he was already and
Speaker 1: he has already been diagnosed with cancer. I think it
Speaker 1: was in chemo he was. They weren't letting him, giving
Speaker 1: him his emails or sending him his emails or whatever. Um,
Speaker 1: I just I just the last time I saw him
Speaker 1: was when he and Aman got engaged, an Iman, who
Speaker 1: I knew before they were together, but I didn't know
Speaker 1: that they were dating each other. And I don't know
Speaker 1: even if they were dating each other during that time.
Speaker 1: It was just just it just so happened that, you know, um,
Speaker 1: we were a friend of mine had invited me to
Speaker 1: their engagement party, and so I was, you know, I
Speaker 1: got all dressed up, and I think I looked fabulous,
Speaker 1: and of course she looked fabulous, she always does. And
Speaker 1: she walks over to me and she says, Aba, look
Speaker 1: at the engagement ring Dave David gave me. So I said,
Speaker 1: I said that that's really wonderful. Eman. I hope you
Speaker 1: too will be very happy. And I mean I didn't see.
Speaker 1: I wish that they would be happy, but I felt
Speaker 1: hurt inside. I did. I actually admit I felt. Wow.
Speaker 1: You know it was I mean, it was it was time.
Speaker 1: I mean it was it was. It was a while
Speaker 1: after me that he started dating her. And I guess
Speaker 1: this in my heart, I never I didn't think he
Speaker 1: was gonna be with another black girl. That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 1: But you know, then then then the then the Billboard
Speaker 1: came out with an article that said, before there was Iman,
Speaker 1: there was Ava Cherry. And that's right, because Emon always
Speaker 1: says that she knows David Jones. I didn't really know
Speaker 1: David Jones. I knew David Bowie really yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: I didn't David Jones. She he showed his David Jones
Speaker 1: side when he stopped doing drugs and everything and that,
Speaker 1: but he I saw David Bowie. I mean, I was
Speaker 1: there with you know, some of the most prolific stuff,
Speaker 1: early prolifics, prolifics stuff. But I just you know, but
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I understand that people can you know,
Speaker 1: I believe he loves me. I certainly loved him, and
Speaker 1: I believe he loved me he showed me, and whenever
Speaker 1: we took pictures together, he always looked at me as
Speaker 1: though he loved me in the ways that he treated me.
Speaker 1: But you know, you could love him more than one
Speaker 1: person in a lifetime, and he found someone else that
Speaker 1: he loved dearly and deeply and I and I was
Speaker 1: glad that he did. I was glad. I was glad
Speaker 1: that those times of you know, the drug stuff and
Speaker 1: in the emotional feelings about things going on with gone,
Speaker 1: and that he found someone that you could feel, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, calm with and and and and love and
Speaker 1: love him back. I never saw it as something, you know,
Speaker 1: and any kind of of frond to me. I saw
Speaker 1: it as that that phase that was with him, he
Speaker 1: loved me, and then he went into another phase. And
Speaker 1: that's and I mean, I've loved I've loved more than
Speaker 1: one person something him. So I'm just saying that that's
Speaker 1: what happens, you know, And I was glad that he was,
Speaker 1: you know, well and happy and and all of that.
Speaker 1: Is there one memory for you that's sort of like
Speaker 1: a snapshot that for you encapsulates your time together. One
Speaker 1: that's that's really one of your favorite moments together. I
Speaker 1: would I would have to say when I first met
Speaker 1: him that night in the club, and and and and
Speaker 1: in Doville, because we were like it was in Doville.
Speaker 1: It was like being in this incredible castle with and
Speaker 1: just it was all about love and being together and
Speaker 1: being warm and then doing the music too. But it
Speaker 1: was it felt so right. I would have to say,
Speaker 1: do Ville was one of the most beautiful times in
Speaker 1: my life. And you keep them alive in your music.
Speaker 1: You recently released an amazing cover of of Let's Dance,
Speaker 1: and you've covered a few of his songs too, an
Speaker 1: Age Daydream in life on Mars. Uh, what are you
Speaker 1: working on now? I know you have an album do
Speaker 1: out soon. Well, now, I just you know, during the summer,
Speaker 1: I had a song out called Testified Love. That's that's
Speaker 1: that's out there, which I think is a great song,
Speaker 1: and and I wrote it and and produced it and
Speaker 1: and uh in my Soul came like about a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago. Uh. And right now we're working on
Speaker 1: a film about my life with him. So we were
Speaker 1: we you know, the COVID is slowed down. We were
Speaker 1: gonna start shooting in last March, but then the COVID
Speaker 1: slowed everything down. So we're still working on that, and
Speaker 1: it's gonna be brilliant. I'm just I mean, it's gonna
Speaker 1: be it's just gonna be good. It's gonna be the truth.
Speaker 1: It's gonna be to something like a fairy tale, because
Speaker 1: it certainly was to me. I I never knew anybody
Speaker 1: that had those experiences like I did. I felt like
Speaker 1: a princess. I did the Black Princess, and you know,
Speaker 1: they and you know, my fans. He started them calling
Speaker 1: me black Barbararella because when that we did the nineteen
Speaker 1: eight floor, so they had me wearing these real futuristic
Speaker 1: outfits and so I was like, Jane, Yeah, so they
Speaker 1: called me black, but I have a fan club. They
Speaker 1: had my fan club black Barbara, and so he would
Speaker 1: call me black Barbaralla. He would go, okay, he was
Speaker 1: the clever girl, black Barbararella. I just thought. But that
Speaker 1: was his favorite thing with me, who's the clever girl?
Speaker 1: If I would do something because I was always trying
Speaker 1: to do things and would make him say, wow, you
Speaker 1: do that, or and whenever I do something amazing, who's
Speaker 1: the clever girl, Black Barbarella. You mentioned learning a lot
Speaker 1: from David. What do you think he learned from you?
Speaker 1: What was your impact on me? Think? You know, I
Speaker 1: contributed a lot to this fop culture, and I think
Speaker 1: that also what I contributed to David was his his
Speaker 1: making him feel less vulnerable to people, because we would
Speaker 1: sometimes get out of limousine and people kids with Russell
Speaker 1: go hey even and he would he would he would like,
Speaker 1: he would like, you know, jump back like he was,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe be afraid. And I said, daven don't
Speaker 1: be afraid. These your fans, they love you, they love you.
Speaker 1: And he started seeing that when people would come up
Speaker 1: to him, he wouldn't he wouldn't recoil. He would and
Speaker 1: even said that to me, you make me feel good
Speaker 1: when I'm around other people. And you know, I just
Speaker 1: think that that's what he saw in me. He saw
Speaker 1: that I was a good person. I was. I didn't
Speaker 1: have a mean bone in my body. I've run into
Speaker 1: people that I've talked to new over the years and
Speaker 1: I said, what was I like? Because I can't remember
Speaker 1: his thing? He said, Eva, And I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: stroking myself. You were so sweet and so nice. You
Speaker 1: never really mean to anybody. You were always anybody that
Speaker 1: you know want to speak to David or talk to
Speaker 1: you know, you were always just sweet and I and
Speaker 1: that made me feel good because I never thought I
Speaker 1: was a bit of any kind, and I never tried
Speaker 1: to be, you know, I never did. I felt lots
Speaker 1: of daggers in my back blow a lot, you know,
Speaker 1: from a lot of people that didn't want me around
Speaker 1: because they thought I had too much influence over Davia,
Speaker 1: you know, and that that bothered me because I never
Speaker 1: tried to make any enemies or anything that but it
Speaker 1: was just the nature of the beast that being around
Speaker 1: someone like David, who everybody wants and everybody wanted to
Speaker 1: be around, and everybody wanted to sleep with, everybody wanted
Speaker 1: to work with, everybody, you know, not baggage just must
Speaker 1: have been so tough to deal with when you just
Speaker 1: you just wanted it to be you two, and sometimes
Speaker 1: I'm sure you wanted to just go and walk down
Speaker 1: the banks of the Saint or go to have a
Speaker 1: dinner together at a restaurant and not in the back room,
Speaker 1: and just be like normal, a normal couple in love. Yes,
Speaker 1: and we were, and we had those opportunities to do
Speaker 1: just that, you know, because a lot of the the musicians.
Speaker 1: You know, they weren't really on the social you know David.
Speaker 1: David loved and respected all his musicians, but you know,
Speaker 1: his private life he kept pretty private. And it wasn't
Speaker 1: about you know, having you know, dinner with the whole
Speaker 1: band or anything like that or whatever. Like I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, he did it, but he did not. It
Speaker 1: was not if he was with someone that he wanted
Speaker 1: to be with, like a woman or whatever. No, that
Speaker 1: it was more you know, he could do things, but
Speaker 1: he wanted to be with that person that he was with. Um.
Speaker 1: But like I said, he taught me so so many
Speaker 1: things about just you know, how to just how to
Speaker 1: how to to be in the rock world and just
Speaker 1: and flourished and be okay and be and and you know,
Speaker 1: my mom is always staying to me, if you died tomorrow,
Speaker 1: you've done more than a whole lot, You've done their
Speaker 1: whole lifetime. And like, yeah, yeah, I guess maybe that
Speaker 1: could be true, and maybe that could be true. That
Speaker 1: could be true. Off the Record is a production of
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