WEBVTT - How TED Talks Work: Featuring Roman Mars 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.400 This episode is brought to you by square Space. Start 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:05.400 building your website today at square space dot com. Ter 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:08.600 offer code stuff at checkout to get ten percent off 0:00:08.880 --> 0:00:13.040 square Space. Set your website apart stuff you should know. 0:00:13.200 --> 0:00:17.639 Tour Spring has sprung, everybody. This is Chuck and we 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.120 are hitting the road in April and May for some 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:25.440 live shows. If you live in Seattle, Portland, Houston, or Denver. 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:27.560 Those are the ones we have so far. We're gonna 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.160 add a couple of more though, the Neptune Theater on 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:34.160 April eighth in Seattle, Revolution Hall in Portland on April ninth, 0:00:34.479 --> 0:00:36.280 and we're gonna take a little break and we're gonna 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:41.360 go to Houston on a Warehouse Live and then Denver, Colorado, 0:00:41.479 --> 0:00:44.839 May twenty nine. It's a Sunday labor I'm sorry, Memorial 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.080 Day weekend at the Gothic Theater. And you can get 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.120 all the information for tickets at s y s K 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.920 live dot com and that is powered by square Space, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:58.160 our buddies, and get this Seattle in Portland, you need 0:00:58.200 --> 0:00:59.959 to get on it because tickets are going fast. It's 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:03.480 gonna sell out soon. Houston and Denver tickets are going 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:07.480 on sale this Friday, that would be tomorrow. And I 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.760 believe we're even having a pre sale for Denver today, 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:12.840 So I don't have that password yet, but if you 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.800 go to Facebook or Facebook page or s y s 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:19.520 K live dot com, we're gonna post the pre sale 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.600 password for today for Denver. We hope see you guys there. 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.880 We love you. Goodbye, Welcome to you Stuff you should 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:35.759 know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome 0:01:35.800 --> 0:01:39.040 to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Sounded like Jonathan's Chickland. 0:01:39.120 --> 0:01:42.959 Just then there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Stuff 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.760 you should know in the house, Yes, sir, so Chuck. 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:49.440 Before we get started, I think we should make a 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:54.040 clarification here because we inadvertently offended some people on our 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.920 makeup episode. I mentioned that it was International Women's Day, 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:00.920 so it's not really a happy okay. I understand that. 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.720 I realized that. And it's not like we said, hey, 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.240 it's International Women's Day, what topics should we do? What topics? 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.800 Screams women fresh International Women's Day makeup. It wasn't like 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:13.919 that at all. We selected makeup. It was International Women's 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.399 Day and I didn't want it to go by unmarked yeah, 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.840 it was. It was completely coincidental. So we we didn't 0:02:19.840 --> 0:02:23.520 mean to offend anyone. And uh I hopefully our track 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:27.960 record as UH feminists stands up. But um so may 0:02:28.000 --> 0:02:29.760 a couple to all those who are offended. And you 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.000 know what, We're gonna do one on International Women's Day 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.720 and the Equal Rights Amendments. Yeah, next year for International 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.320 Women's Day, about International Women's Day, and maybe we'll do 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.359 the e r A before then. Yeah it sounds great. Okay, good, 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:44.080 good job, buddy. All right, so let's let's get started. 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.400 How you doing, man? I was talking to Jerry before 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:52.680 you came in about just life. There's a lot of life, 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.600 lots of stuff going on in every avenue. There's all 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:00.360 this planning, like we're like working on dates for stuff. Yeah, 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:03.079 I mean it's just like constant what going on. You're 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.760 gonna melt down? No, I'm not. I'm hanging in there, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.920 and I'm doing so by saying, uh, you got a 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:15.200 pretty good brain trust in your brain? Good? I got Stanima, 0:03:15.320 --> 0:03:20.000 Oh boy, I've got Stanman perfect. Well, there it is. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:22.600 There's the crack in the dike. Everybody. I have a 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:26.639 crack in my brain today because if you remember we 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:32.440 were sent We mentioned the Crown Royal Rye whiskey off handedly. 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.560 Oh no, I know what your stories, and they sent 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:40.360 us six bottles of Crown Royal, and um, I got 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.480 into it last night. How many bottles? Oh? Not, I 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.480 didn't drink bottles? Please? Which one did you start with? 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:49.160 Did you start with the Northern rye? Well, I'd already 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.880 tried it. I still have not. No, I've been like 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.520 really holding everything together, so I haven't had time to 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.120 sit down and like really enjoy some rye. Yeah, I 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:03.440 tried the rye, but um, they also sent this single 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:07.840 malt the yeah, the x O. Uh well we got 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.120 two different ones. Really, we got the same Ryan, then 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.040 the same regular, and then each of us had a 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.000 different So you get a single, like a single malt whiskey, 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.920 single Mault Canadian whiskey. Nice. So I got into that 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.320 a little bit last night because I've been stressed and 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:27.039 now I'm I've got cobwebs. That's great, chunk. I was 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:31.160 googling at my desk earlier hangover blurred vision. Oh it's 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.120 that bad, just to make sure I wasn't like it, 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.760 didn't need to go to hospital for some condition. And 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.599 it said, Hey, don't worry, You're just hung over. That's 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.400 why you have blurred vision. She could listen to her 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:45.039 hangover episode. I know, I couldn't remember if blurred vision was. 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.880 I don't think it was. I think maybe if you 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:51.720 have a turpentine hangover, blurred vision is, but not from 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.479 com royal It maybe something else. All right, well, hanging 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.239 on by threads, I'll carry us both in this episode. 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:00.400 Then how about that she just kicked back and relax 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:06.040 and turn right, turner, that's right. How do you remember 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:10.640 the time when you realize that Ted wasn't someone's name? Yeah, 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:12.800 but was it immediate or had you heard of Ted 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:14.720 for a little while before you're like, oh, there's not 0:05:14.800 --> 0:05:17.240 actually a Ted. No. I think I caught onto the 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:21.080 Ted Talks when most everyone else did. Was when they 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:24.719 became readily available and distributed on YouTube. It was like 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:28.279 two six, Yeah, that's when they really like, uh launched. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.120 Oh you were early, that's early. Yeah. And I wasn't 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:33.120 like watching them all the time, but I knew what 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:36.360 it was and pot this is certainly neat in a 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.320 version of what we do. Yeah, yeah, I'm I mean, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.200 I don't remember when I first saw a TED talk, 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.200 but I became aware of them as like a thing. Well, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.640 we weren't doing this later for sure, so I didn't 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:53.599 think that at the time. See, yeah right, so UM TED. 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.080 In fact, for those of you who don't know the 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.560 three of you, UM does not stand for it's not 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:02.719 a person name. It stands for technology, entertainment, and design, 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:09.400 and UM. TED talks are talks originally about things that 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:13.039 fell under those three general topics, but have since expanded 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:19.160 tremendously and have become this kind of global creativity thinker 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.720 brand that falls very much in line with the the 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:27.640 idea and the feeling behind UM San Francisco and Silicon 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:34.080 Valley uber UM, the building we work in, like all 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:39.520 like this, this whole kind of new technocratic idealism is 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:42.160 the TED is very much a foundation of that, and 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.680 help and help foster it for sure, yea. Although it 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:50.680 covers wide range of topics now anything a technocrat would 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.080 be interested in it is well, and not even technology. 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.719 It incomes as all kinds of eythings. Yeah. Do you 0:06:55.760 --> 0:06:58.080 remember our Long Now episode, the one about the ten 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.480 thousand year clock that would if you, if you are 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:03.960 at all interested in TED talks or this episode, go 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:05.560 listen to that one that will definitely be in your 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:10.200 wheelhouse to agreed. And they are eighteen minutes long. Uh, 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.800 because supposedly that is the length of the human u 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:20.880 uh span of intentions, attention span. That's right that I 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.280 love how everybody couches that. And supposedly, yeah, I mean 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.400 is there did you look up as there science behind that? 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.680 Couldn't find anything behind it. I'm sure that there is 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.840 some social science study about it that concluded that that's 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:34.360 the case. That doesn't mean that's it's a neat construct 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.760 and I think a selling point for Ted talks because, uh, 0:07:37.760 --> 0:07:41.080 this article points out, um, they are tailor made for 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.520 today because they're shortish and shareable and um, they're sort 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:49.920 of perfect for our new social media age. Yeah. The 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.800 guy who wrote this article, Dave Russ, basically puts it 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.680 like Ted is ready made for the digital age. Like 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.600 you said, they're eighteen minutes long, they're shareable, and Ted 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:03.240 very presciently started sharing these things online for free in 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.600 two thousand six, and that was a year after YouTube. 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.520 And I remember when YouTube came around, it was like 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:11.240 it was not a given that YouTube was always going 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.320 to be here like it is today and so to 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.360 release all of your stuff, all your videos online back 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:21.160 in two thousand and six that had had a decent 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:26.440 amount of foresight. Very teddy, so teddy. All right, well, 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:28.800 let's go back in time a little bit, because this 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:32.440 very much surprised me. Uh not back to two thousand 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:40.480 four or even nineteen ninety four. Yeah, go ahead, jump, yeah, 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:45.040 like Van Halen is playing Panama on the radio and 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.960 your TV. Sure, the little angel kids smoking cigarettes and 0:08:50.000 --> 0:08:53.480 the very first ted talk happened. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Yeah? 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:58.200 And it wasn't like Ray Kurzwile strutting the stage, just 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:04.080 staccato releasing like different computer terms. It was a It 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.920 was basically the ultimate dinner party. Is how it was 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:11.120 put by a designer. Um, and his name is Richard 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:15.280 Saul Warman. And I looked at Richard Saul Warman and um, 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.760 he is indeed a designer and publisher and author of 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:22.679 eight books, and uh, he decided that he wanted to 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:28.120 put together something where anyone could come and listen to 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:32.440 luminaries and basically a dinner dinner party like setting with 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.640 the stage. Cool idea, like if you have a dinner 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.040 party and you put a stage in the corner. There's 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.720 your first TED conference, that's right. And what he said was, 0:09:40.840 --> 0:09:42.920 you know, I wanted to sort of have an anti conference. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.040 I don't want someone up here with the power point. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.120 I don't want someone up here lecturing for an hour. Uh. 0:09:48.160 --> 0:09:50.640 The idea was to make him just to get smart 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.960 people together on stage and in the audience and have 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.360 them be kind of snappy and quick. And apparently he 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.439 would even like run you off the stage if you 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.839 were going too long or if he became bored. Yeah, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.640 but that's so Richard sault Warman. Well, I don't know. 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:10.520 I'm just kidding because one of his books is called 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:16.280 I'm Bored. Right, it's just like right. At the very 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:21.160 first HEAD conference there was a it's very cute and adorable. 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:25.960 Now they featured a demonstration of the Sony Compact disc player. Yeah, 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.760 but dude, that's four Yeah. Yeah, man, I'm sure that 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:34.360 was like, what is this sorcery? One of the yeah, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.960 one of the first Um, you don't have to rewind. Yeah, 0:10:38.240 --> 0:10:40.400 that was a big innovation with Compact. It's so I'm 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:43.559 not sure if you're aware of that. Sure, the eight 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:47.280 track boy they tried, Yeah, what was the tex problem? 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:51.160 It was just too clunky. Well, I mean the advantage 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.560 of being able to skip ahead. Yeah, that's like four 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.040 songs at a time. Though you couldn't skip like too 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:58.800 song number two or three. It would jump in like 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.439 groups of four. Oh, I don't recall that. Yeah, that's 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.280 a big design for at least minded. Maybe I had 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.800 a crappy Richard Saul Warman would never have released something 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.960 with that kind of a design flaw. The very first 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.760 or one of the very first demonstrations of the Macintosh 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:17.439 computer was at ted. That's huge. And uh, a little 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:21.760 mathematician by the name of Ben Wha Mandel brought famous 0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:25.480 for his set. Yeah, he spoke there's a great Jonathan 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:30.000 Colton song, yeah about him and his fractals. That's right, 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:35.920 Mr Colton. Yeah. Uh who we've met, Oh yeah and 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.079 hung out with. He's a good dude, Yeah he is. Yeah, 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:41.200 he's been to our shows before, that's right. Uh. And 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:44.240 so six years later he took a little break because 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.640 it was it didn't make him any money. Um. In fact, 0:11:47.720 --> 0:11:49.679 I think it even cost him money. Yes, to think 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:53.240 about this, you go to a conference where the compact 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.000 disc is being shown about five six years before it's 0:11:57.000 --> 0:12:01.320 actual real release digital which he book Reader and ben 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.720 Wa Mandel brought and no one wants to come. So 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:06.960 financially it was a flop, but he'd put together a 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:09.280 good conference, and like you said, he took six years 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.400 or something like that. Then he tried it again and 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:15.040 apparently this time it took. Yeah, that's when the eighteen 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:20.280 minute format came into play, and um, it became like 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:22.199 a really big ticket, like all of a sudden that 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.440 he had made a name for himself in his conference. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:29.679 And these were in Monterey, California at first because that's 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.160 where he lived, until two thousand nine, they moved to 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:34.439 Long Beach, and then in two thousand and fourteen they 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:38.520 moved ultimately to where they were bound to be in Vancouver. 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.960 Yeah for now. Um, they they If you go on 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:45.160 the TED site and look up their conference schedule or whatever, 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.440 it says that they hold it annually on the West 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.520 coast of North America. So they're not they're not locking 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:54.920 themselves into anything further than the West coast of North America. 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.360 What they're definitely saying is we're not coming York time zone, 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.280 even though the staff is partially based in any or. Yeah, 0:13:02.400 --> 0:13:07.679 did you read that weight. But why article I sent you? Yep. Yeah, 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:11.760 well we'll talk about it some more later. So. Uh, 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:18.480 Richards Saul Werman, being the the wander lustful designer that 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:22.360 he is, decided that he made Ted is success and 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.200 he was now bored with it, so he sold it. 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.720 He was he was older, he was looking for a successor. 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:31.160 Well he found one and Chris Anderson, the birdman of 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:36.280 the Miami Heat. Wouldn't that be funny? It was weird 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:41.080 fox hawk? Yeah. Uh no. Chris Anderson he ran a 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:44.319 nonprofit or runs one called the Sapling Foundation, and he 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:49.200 ponied up a cool four million pounds to buy Ted. Dude, 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.120 he has made that back and then something, Oh I'm sure, well, no, 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:57.319 it's a nonprofit, right, He's made some money off. Uh. 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:01.120 So Anderson took it over. Um started running it as 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:03.480 a nonprofit and kind of brought that sensibility to it. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.360 But he took the eighteen minute chunk idea, which is 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:12.280 a huge cornerstone trait of Ted, you know, and ran 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:16.160 with it. He did. Um. He he was the one 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:20.160 who said we need to release these online. Um he uh. 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.080 He curates still to this day. From what I understand, 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.440 all of the speakers and the audience members. Yeah, so 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:30.360 we'll talk a little bit about like making a TED 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:33.800 talk if you're ever invited to produce one, and attending 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:53.920 the TED conference after this. So, Chuck, let's say that 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:58.080 UM TED came to you and said, Hey, I'm Ted, 0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.840 and uh I want you to speak at me. Yes, okay, 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:07.680 So you just have signed up for a tremendous amount 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:10.359 of work actually and a lot of stress and nervousness 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:12.960 from what I understand of course. Uh. And actually we'll 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.200 go ahead and tease this. Uh. Coming up at the 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.920 end of this episode, we are going to interview the 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:27.440 Great Roman Mars of the Great Invisible Podcasts and part 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:30.640 of the original cast of a chorus line. That's right, 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:34.280 and the Roman spoke at one of the legit TED conferences, 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:38.200 not a TED X no Ted, but the real deal. Yeah, 0:15:38.200 --> 0:15:40.200 and we should say so, like, um, there's you may 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.160 have seen if you're familiar with TED, TED X TED Global, 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:47.480 that kind of thing. UM and TED conferences are held 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.760 once a year, and this is the one that is 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.360 like the big mamajamma where like the guy who runs TED, 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.600 Chris Anderson, picked you to to speak at it. It 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.760 is UM and then there's ted X, and ted X 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:04.360 are basically like um local versions of ted and they 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.920 can either be huge like San Diego ted X is 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.760 a bona fide legitimate conference. And then, um, I'm quite 0:16:12.760 --> 0:16:15.480 sure that there's Toledo ted X. Do you think I 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:17.720 think so. I think we might have been invited to 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.240 it once. No, I think so. I don't think we 0:16:20.280 --> 0:16:22.320 could make it. We were invited to a ted X 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.600 somewhere is either in Ohio or Indiana. Well, our old 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:30.560 friend Joey Ciara, formerly of Henry Clay People, now of 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:37.560 bakers Um, he went to Harvard and was trying to 0:16:37.600 --> 0:16:39.720 get us to do a ted EX at Harvard at 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:41.520 one point. I don't know if that's when you're thinking 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.040 of No, okay, nope, this is in a Midwestern states. 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.280 Harvard is not in the Midwest. But does Joey still 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.960 at Harvard right though? No? No, no? He finished, Oh congratulations, Joey. Yeah, 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:54.840 he congratuated and then decided he wanted to go to 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:57.600 film school. So, dude, the guys all over the place, 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.640 he's all over the place. Can I ask it's not 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:03.080 the fakers, It's just fakers. He's just fakers. Where's the 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:08.080 the was the great band? Okay, where is the the 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:11.479 What do you mean? The Fakers? It's like Edie Brikell 0:17:11.600 --> 0:17:15.680 and New Bohemians that used to drive me crazy, the 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:18.240 same thing. They're not the Indigo Girls. Indigo Girls doesn't 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.679 strike me in the same way. And I get like Fakers, 0:17:21.720 --> 0:17:24.000 it doesn't have to be the Fakers. The makes it 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.399 a band name, you know, but Fakers is it's a 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:30.120 little more artistic. There's something different to it. But it's 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.879 just when you leave off the in front of a 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.520 band name, I notice that my antenna go up. It's like, 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.359 what are you trying to pull? I think originally the 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.359 Eagles were just eagles. I think that's correct. Or did 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.960 they remain that and they were just mistakenly called the Eagles? 0:17:45.200 --> 0:17:48.000 I could see that, But I also see Glenn Fry 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.480 and Joe Walsh and Don Henley not being ones to 0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.120 correct somebody. You know, they're a little more easy going 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.800 than Eadie Brikell. Well, I think it's just Eagles. Still, 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.080 The Indigo Girls sounds weird, like are you doing tomorrow? Oh? 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.840 I'm going to see Indigo Girls for some reason. I 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.280 know what you're saying, you know, But that's never stuck 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:14.119 out to me with the with them back to TED. So, uh, 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.159 Roman can count himself among some very distinguished people like 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:22.600 Bill Clinton and Bono and Richard Dawkins and Jane Goodall 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.480 and Al Gore had They've had lots of very famous 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.159 people speak at TED conferences. Ted. Yes, So that's what 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:29.959 we were saying. We're talking about TED X to Global 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:35.080 the difference, and and Romans spoke at TED big big um. 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:38.960 So if you are asked to speak at TED, UM, 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:43.440 and you do agree, you are you're basically here's the 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.240 thing I didn't know about TED that I learned from 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:50.159 researching this. You are creating an eighteen minute presentation that 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.639 when you give this speech like you're speaking at verbatim 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:58.520 word for word. Yeah, it's a performance, it is, um 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.800 and so like this thing is not like I've got 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.360 an eighteen minute speech I know pretty well. Like it's 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.560 not for the way, Yeah, for the most part, Um, 0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:11.280 it is someone who is an expert in their field. 0:19:11.680 --> 0:19:16.600 Let's say robotics for example, UM, And a robotics expert 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:21.159 is not necessarily a gifted public speaker. In fact, they 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:24.440 probably are not. So probably so part of the TED 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:29.439 process is to basically be matriculated and inculcated into this 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:36.400 Ted atmosphere where you are coached and um and prompted 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.880 and harangued and written and maybe spanked down the bottom 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:42.240 when you don't deliver a script down time. That kind 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:45.000 of thing. Yeah, it's very like the reason if you've 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:46.719 seen a bunch of Ted talks, the reason they all 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.200 seem the same is because of that reason they want 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.399 them to feel similar. But yeah, it's a format of 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.520 a brand, yeah, which is a Roman kind of but 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:57.320 convention a little bit. And so we'll talk to him 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:00.600 about that. Can't wait. Yeah, it's gonna be great. Um. 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:04.800 But so what happens is and this is it surprised me. Um. 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:08.080 Six to nine months before they give the talk, a 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:12.320 speaker will start working with the staff and producers and 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:16.760 editors to craft your story along with you, right, which 0:20:16.800 --> 0:20:19.720 is really interesting. I had no idea. Yeah, Um, I 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.320 brought up wait but why earlier? Tim Urban, the guy 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:24.879 who I believe runs that site, um, and it's a 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:28.640 pretty pretty interesting site. He's got some good stuff on there. Um. 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:31.240 But he did a Ted talk, the big one in Vancouver, 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.720 I guess last year or in two fourteen maybe. Um. 0:20:34.800 --> 0:20:38.560 And he talked about how he kept putting off, you know, 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.920 coming up with an idea even let alone a script, 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:46.399 and he finally had like a flash of inspiration and 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:50.480 decided procrastination would be a great one to do. Yeah 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:53.520 and he um he if you read this is called 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:55.840 doing a TED talk, calling the full story. He goes 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.280 into great details. He is a comic stret of like 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:01.440 and you really feel it with him where you're starting 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:05.160 to get anxious because you when when he showed up 0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:09.399 for coaching a month or so out, Um, he showed 0:21:09.440 --> 0:21:11.480 up to TED offices in New York and he did 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:14.440 his his his talk for the first time in front 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:19.240 of TED staffers. Um. They it apparently wasn't very well received. 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:22.200 That's got to be the worst feeling in the world. Yeah. 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:26.000 And apparently he up until the um the day he 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:28.760 gave it, he was rehearsing constantly. Do you remember the 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:32.280 time we did them the thing at the in the 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:37.200 Inventor's Hall of Fame. It was the one time we 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.639 did a script and there was a script where like 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.000 I had lines and you had lines that responded to 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:44.760 my lines, and there's no winging this and you and 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.360 I just pounded it into our heads, did it over 0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.280 and over and over again, and then we we finished 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.800 rehearsing him. Right when we finished rehearsing that last time, 0:21:53.000 --> 0:21:55.360 we walked right on the stage and did it. There 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:57.159 was no down time or anything like that. It was 0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:00.159 like we we worked out our brain muscles, but we 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.440 were hanging on by our fingernails. We weren't asked back 0:22:02.440 --> 0:22:05.679 if I remember, it's it's not h It's not the 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.240 way we prefer to work. Because if you've seen us live, 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:10.520 you know we have our notes, but we do you 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:12.960 like we do in the studio, and we we it's 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.120 a general outline, but we are very much more comfortable 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:19.439 speaking in our own voice. Right, So this is this 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:21.320 is what Ted. It's not like that. It's like we 0:22:21.520 --> 0:22:24.720 you have a script and you know it line by line. 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.240 And they apparently have a question a couple of questions 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:31.840 like measuring sticks for whether you actually have something memorize. 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.359 Did you did you catch those in the way up 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.160 wide posts? Yeah? In fact, he calls it um. There's 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:39.600 different levels of memorization. He goes over, and the one 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:41.280 that you need to get to for Ted is called 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:45.399 he calls happy birthday. Yeah, like, when you know that 0:22:45.440 --> 0:22:47.320 song so well, you can like to do your taxes 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:50.639 and sing it out. Wou So he's and this just 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:55.240 sends like I got nervous just reading this. Uh. He said. 0:22:55.359 --> 0:22:57.399 If you record yourself saying the talk and play it 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:00.959 back at double speed, can you say it out loud 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.320 while it's playing and stay ahead of the recording? That 0:23:04.400 --> 0:23:07.400 just gives me anxiety. And number two, can you recite 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:10.840 the talk with no problem while simultaneously doing an unrelated 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:13.919 task that requires attention, like following a recipe and measuring 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:16.959 out ingredients into a bowl. Yeah, I mean imagine that's 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.760 a great way to practice. Know and you have something cold? 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:24.720 But um boy, uh, I just don't even bother asking 0:23:24.840 --> 0:23:28.160 us Ted, right, And I mean like that's that's the thing. 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:30.600 It's like, fear of public speaking is an awful thing, 0:23:31.080 --> 0:23:34.720 and then it's it's exponentially amplified when you have a 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:37.200 script that you have to remember a word for word 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:39.280 and line for line. And that's part of TED. And again, 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.080 like you said, I don't think they're doing this just 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:44.480 to be mean. They're doing it because they have a 0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.720 brand in a format and like you need to stick 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.560 to the format when you're doing the the talk, right. Yeah. 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:51.959 What I'm curious about and I couldn't find this anywhere 0:23:51.960 --> 0:23:54.159 they probably don't like to talk about it is I 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:58.919 wonder if or how often they bail on people and 0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:03.439 are just like you knows, from what I understand, uh, 0:24:03.600 --> 0:24:06.320 the TED people would not be afraid to do that. Really. 0:24:06.760 --> 0:24:08.280 I didn't know if they did that or they took 0:24:08.280 --> 0:24:10.880 the other approach, which is like, no, well, we're gonna 0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:13.160 keep banging this out with you until you got it. 0:24:14.440 --> 0:24:17.399 Probably both, Yeah, I mean probably, but I'm sure they 0:24:17.720 --> 0:24:20.440 give their full support and like really try to work 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:23.080 with you. But you know, I'm sure people have turned 0:24:23.080 --> 0:24:26.080 in ideas and they're just like that's actually not a 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.000 good idea, and the person wants to stick with it 0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:29.880 and they're like, Okay, we're gonna go with somebody else 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.760 or yeah. Well there's a couple of hallmarks of a 0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.000 good TED talk that they work with you on, um, 0:24:36.080 --> 0:24:38.360 that you'll notice, uh. And one is that they want 0:24:38.400 --> 0:24:42.639 to frame your story as a personal journey of discovery. 0:24:42.840 --> 0:24:45.439 This I find is a little narrow, uh. And a 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:49.199 talk should feel like a quote little miracle end quote 0:24:49.840 --> 0:24:53.200 and change your audience's perspective on the world. Which that's 0:24:53.240 --> 0:24:55.280 that's the problem that I have with it, Like not 0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:58.000 everything is a little miracle, and I don't think you 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:01.159 should force it into a little miracle box. Like something 0:25:01.200 --> 0:25:03.920 can be interesting just on its face. Yeah, but if 0:25:05.480 --> 0:25:07.800 you know, then start your own conference. Like you know 0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:09.840 what I'm saying, Like that's their thing right now, I 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:11.840 get it. That's why I don't like critics. Well, we'll 0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:16.399 get to the criticism and I'll go off then. But 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.360 they wanted to be really focused on like one specific thing. 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:23.320 Obviously in eighteen minutes. You can't be too rambly, which 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:25.600 is another reason why they would never ask us because 0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.520 we'd start talking about Cohen Brothers movies. May be like 0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:33.200 they'd get the hook out. Have you seen Hail Caesar yet? No? 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:37.520 Which is weird it is I'm usually like right in 0:25:37.560 --> 0:25:40.840 that theater on the first week. I guess it's an 0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:48.400 allegory for Christ maybe, Oh really, I think so interesting. Uh, 0:25:48.600 --> 0:25:50.840 some of the other things that they will work with you. 0:25:50.840 --> 0:25:53.040 You're not gonna use a teleprompter, like we said, it's 0:25:53.040 --> 0:25:55.720 got to be memorized. Yeah, we don't use teleprompters even 0:25:55.720 --> 0:25:58.679 when we're shooting videos. Do you use teleprompters? I do 0:25:58.800 --> 0:26:00.800 for the what the stuff? I find it's too difficult 0:26:00.880 --> 0:26:04.159 and distracting. I don't have enough confidence in my just 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:09.159 reading cold abilities. Love it. Sure, I can read all 0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:13.439 day long. Uh they they you can't use note cards 0:26:13.440 --> 0:26:15.640 if you want to uh to do that. Yeah, you're 0:26:15.640 --> 0:26:20.119 not a robot. No, you might be a robot scientist, 0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:25.679 but you're not a robot. Right. Yeah. They want you 0:26:25.720 --> 0:26:29.320 to make eye contact and be accessible, and they recommend 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:32.800 picking out some friendly faces in the audience. That's a 0:26:32.960 --> 0:26:35.840 that's big and these actually do translate to just about 0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:38.320 any public speaking gig. Yeah. And what I think is 0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:42.080 funny is having done shows with you, is you tend 0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:47.240 to pick out the least friendly face and afterwards you're like, well, 0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:49.000 is that guy on the second row he just kept 0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:52.479 yawning and he had his arm scrolls look or something. Yeah, 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:55.400 it's so funny. It's easy to like obsess, like that 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:59.520 person we've lost. Um yeah, it's that is good advice 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:02.280 to find some friendly people. You want to find more 0:27:02.320 --> 0:27:06.520 than just like three. You definitely want to do like six, seven, eight, 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:10.640 scattered all around the audience so that you're looking around, 0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:13.440 and you've got your people that you're looking at, and 0:27:13.800 --> 0:27:16.400 you know they're thrilled and delighted that you're talking right 0:27:16.400 --> 0:27:18.640 to them for a second. But then they can also 0:27:18.680 --> 0:27:21.399 get very uncomfortable if you're talking to them for most 0:27:21.400 --> 0:27:23.760 of the show, So you want to kind of spread 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:25.960 that thing around. And then also it doesn't hurt to 0:27:26.000 --> 0:27:28.160 just kind of look in the air to while you're talking, 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.560 you know, or close your eyes and pretend you're not 0:27:30.680 --> 0:27:33.720 there on stage speaking in front of people. We don't. 0:27:33.760 --> 0:27:35.439 You don't really get that nervous anymore. I know what 0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:39.240 it depends. I have remember in uh in New York 0:27:39.280 --> 0:27:41.880 at town Hall, I almost I almost had to tell 0:27:41.880 --> 0:27:44.240 you that you need to push me on stage. Yeah, 0:27:44.359 --> 0:27:46.400 some are a little bit more nervy than others, but 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.520 that goes away pretty quick quickly because our audiences and 0:27:50.560 --> 0:27:53.760 our listeners are super supportive, Like you can't ask for 0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:57.200 a better room to walk into. Well, Plus we don't 0:27:57.200 --> 0:27:59.879 have to win the crowd over. There's probably five people 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:01.800 who don't listen to stuff you should know at any 0:28:01.800 --> 0:28:04.240 one of our shows. It's not like being a stand 0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.639 up comedian. No one knows you, especially if you're an 0:28:07.680 --> 0:28:09.680 opener and you have to win the crowd over. That 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:12.439 sounds like a living nightmare to me. Yeah, that's well, 0:28:12.480 --> 0:28:15.760 I've never tried to stand up one of many reasons. Um. 0:28:15.880 --> 0:28:18.159 And then they also say to you know, not be 0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:22.280 too uh active, like use your hands and stuff. But 0:28:22.560 --> 0:28:24.679 you want to be fairly still. Yeah, you don't want 0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:26.919 to be running all over the stage. Remember when we 0:28:26.920 --> 0:28:31.320 were on Solidade O'Brien one morning and my knee was 0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:34.160 just going like five and they did like a full 0:28:34.160 --> 0:28:37.800 shot of us for the whole interview. Not good. Yeah, 0:28:37.840 --> 0:28:40.680 it was weird because it was also like six am. 0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:45.680 It was you probably had like six cups coffee. I 0:28:45.800 --> 0:28:47.920 might as well just stay up. Oh. One thing they 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:50.240 point out this article I thought was interesting is that 0:28:51.480 --> 0:28:54.160 and maybe this answer is my question about working with people. Um. 0:28:54.160 --> 0:28:58.160 One of the most popular Ted's ever was from Susan Kane. 0:28:58.480 --> 0:29:01.320 Did you see that one? Yeah, it's great. She wrote 0:29:01.320 --> 0:29:03.840 a book called Quiet, The Power of Introverts in a 0:29:03.880 --> 0:29:06.840 World that can't stop talking. So she is a self 0:29:06.840 --> 0:29:09.560 described very famous introvert, and he was able to do it. 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:13.000 So yeah, hers is very endearing and it kind of 0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:16.080 gives you the idea that um, and this was This 0:29:16.160 --> 0:29:20.320 was also mentioned by Tim urban on Wait but why 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:23.440 that like those people are they want you to succeed. 0:29:23.480 --> 0:29:25.640 They're not there to be like I can't wait for 0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:29.360 you to fail. Um. There. So there's a very encouraging 0:29:29.400 --> 0:29:33.120 crowd at her her Ted talk. That's very sweet And 0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:36.680 it was I saw that because our old friend Bill 0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:40.600 Bill Gates. It was on his list of ten favorite 0:29:40.600 --> 0:29:43.280 Ted Talks. And I went and watched it before we 0:29:43.320 --> 0:29:48.480 interviewed him because you know or check this out introverts 0:29:48.600 --> 0:29:53.400 l O L and I was like, sent from my iPhone, 0:29:55.880 --> 0:30:01.240 Oh busted. Um. Actually, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were 0:30:01.360 --> 0:30:05.040 very good friends. They were healthy competition. Well. In fact, 0:30:05.600 --> 0:30:08.160 Bill Gates could arm wrestle Steve Jobs under the table 0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:11.720 and it drove Steve Jobs nuts. Did you know Bill 0:30:11.760 --> 0:30:14.920 Gates can jump over chairs though it was like one 0:30:14.960 --> 0:30:18.240 of his things that he's known for. Did you know that? Well? 0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:20.600 I think he told me. Okay, I didn't know until 0:30:20.600 --> 0:30:24.240 you told me he still does it once in a while. Wow, 0:30:24.480 --> 0:30:25.960 we should have him do that? And yeah, I thought 0:30:26.000 --> 0:30:29.600 that might have been a bad idea. Uh So, I 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:31.800 guess we should talk a little bit about the criticisms 0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:34.400 since we teased it. Yeah, because there's plenty of it. 0:30:34.440 --> 0:30:37.160 It's a it's basically a sporting pastime to to take 0:30:37.200 --> 0:30:40.080 down Ted. I just don't get it. These things are 0:30:40.080 --> 0:30:43.280 so enjoyable to read to me. Yeah, Like, um, Frank 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:45.480 rich Rot one called Ted Talks are lying to you. 0:30:45.840 --> 0:30:48.200 And it was originally in Harper's, which I think is 0:30:48.200 --> 0:30:49.880 where I read it a few years ago, and it's 0:30:49.920 --> 0:30:52.920 reprinted on Salon now because Harper's is behind a paywall, 0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:57.280 and um, it's just beautiful. It's not just about Ted Talks. 0:30:57.320 --> 0:31:01.680 It's about this whole idea of thing like Ted basically 0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:09.440 the commoditization of creativity, Um, just being uncreative, recycling of 0:31:09.680 --> 0:31:13.960 established tropes and stuff. What did he called it? Uh? 0:31:14.200 --> 0:31:17.280 Was that him or Benjamin Bratton? Oh, it might have 0:31:17.280 --> 0:31:20.920 been Bratton. It called it a megachurch infottainment for middle 0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:27.200 brow classes, for middle brown masses. Right, okay, yeah, Well 0:31:27.240 --> 0:31:31.560 the big the big criticisa, Yes they are, Like, there 0:31:31.560 --> 0:31:35.200 are plenty of awesome Ted talks. Um. I don't think 0:31:35.240 --> 0:31:40.120 anyone disputes that. I think a lot of people who 0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:45.440 criticized Ted believe that there's this unspoken sentiment that Ted 0:31:45.560 --> 0:31:50.720 is changing the world, and the critics point to Ted's 0:31:50.840 --> 0:31:54.240 really not changing the world at all. It's basically saying, 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:58.480 here's this really cool ge whiz idea that you two 0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:02.600 can understand, and um, go tell your friends about it 0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:05.440 and let the whole idea die there, And that that's 0:32:05.440 --> 0:32:09.680 actually taking legitimate, great ideas from this roboticist and then 0:32:09.720 --> 0:32:12.200 just spreading it out to the masses and fizzling out 0:32:12.320 --> 0:32:15.320 rather than going the opposite way. Now, Ted, on the 0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:17.280 other hand, is like, are you crazy. If you go 0:32:17.360 --> 0:32:21.240 to our conferences, most of the attendees are extraordinarily rich 0:32:21.280 --> 0:32:26.920 philanthropists or investors or entrepreneurs who might take that roboticists 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:30.480 idea and actually manufacture it. But I think for the 0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:33.400 most part, if you did tip for tat um, it 0:32:33.480 --> 0:32:36.520 compared things that panned out from a Ted talk, the 0:32:36.560 --> 0:32:40.200 things that just fizzled out or haven't haven't panned out yet. 0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:44.200 They haven't panned out yet far and away exceeds the 0:32:44.240 --> 0:32:46.880 ones that have. Yeah, I got no problem with that. 0:32:47.040 --> 0:32:50.320 I think TED talks and I think this is their 0:32:50.320 --> 0:32:54.280 mission is. I think it's a conversation starter and should 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:56.800 not be looked at as anything more than that. Is, 0:32:57.200 --> 0:33:00.320 let me break down something you may not have heard of, uh, 0:33:00.360 --> 0:33:02.720 and try to inspire you in eighteen minutes and start 0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:07.200 a conversation. Um. I don't think their mission should be 0:33:07.240 --> 0:33:11.400 anything but that, so I agreed. Um. The The other 0:33:11.480 --> 0:33:18.000 big criticism is that it's an extremely elitist organization and 0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:21.920 that it's it's not just elitist. TED itself is not 0:33:22.000 --> 0:33:25.200 just elitist, but the people who really enjoy and get 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:28.280 into TED are also extremely elitist without even being aware 0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:30.880 of it. Basically like, if you read the weight but 0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:35.040 why post um Tim is talking about going to TED, 0:33:35.480 --> 0:33:38.360 And when you go to TED, the whole, the whole 0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:41.200 thing is you're one speaker on stage and the whole 0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:44.480 conference is there. There's not multiple speaker speaking at once. 0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:47.880 There's um like seventies speakers over the course of this week, 0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:50.880 and so everybody's there for you. But the people who 0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:54.480 aren't in the auditorium might be out on some artificial 0:33:54.480 --> 0:33:57.440 turf under a fake tree watching it on TV, or 0:33:57.480 --> 0:34:00.120 in a giant ball pit watching it on TV. And 0:34:00.160 --> 0:34:02.760 it's like this is the antithesis of a hard life. 0:34:03.240 --> 0:34:05.480 Even though a lot of the TED ideas are talking 0:34:05.520 --> 0:34:08.239 about how to solve problems that have hard lives, so 0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:11.359 it's like very much ensconced and like to get to TED. 0:34:11.800 --> 0:34:16.359 You pay a minimum of eight dollars uh two as 0:34:16.360 --> 0:34:20.440 an attendee. Yes, well it's it's unless it's changed. That 0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:22.919 was I thought it was on a subscription model. Now, 0:34:23.120 --> 0:34:26.560 so I saw six thousand dollar a year you become 0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:29.160 a member essentially, Okay, I didn't see that. I saw 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:32.680 to attend it was undred or you could double that 0:34:32.800 --> 0:34:35.200 and be considered a donor, which I'm sure comes with 0:34:35.280 --> 0:34:38.160 more perks or whatever. Um. But if you take the 0:34:38.239 --> 0:34:40.719 if you take the meme between those two, the two 0:34:40.800 --> 0:34:43.279 prices you would pay for that week long conference and 0:34:43.280 --> 0:34:45.479 you have to be invited to we should point out, well, 0:34:45.640 --> 0:34:47.839 that's that's another thing. You have to pay at least 0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:51.160 eight dollars and apply on top of that. And of 0:34:51.239 --> 0:34:53.719 course they're not going to charge you if if you 0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:57.000 don't make the cut, but you have to apply and pay. 0:34:57.320 --> 0:35:00.040 And in the application it's it's like we want to 0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:02.920 know the real you, so sit down with a coffee 0:35:03.160 --> 0:35:06.160 and really think about who you are in explaining this 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:08.319 to us. In the application, it says that on the 0:35:08.360 --> 0:35:11.480 tips for applying some fair trade coffee too. Probably, I'm 0:35:11.600 --> 0:35:15.520 quite sure. I think that's just insinuated day. Um. But 0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:18.719 if you take the mean of D and seventeen thousand, uh, 0:35:18.719 --> 0:35:21.319 and you multiply that by the four hundred attendees at 0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:24.880 a TED conference, the TED conference takes in about seventeen 0:35:25.280 --> 0:35:28.440 seventeen million, eight hundred fifty grand in a week. They 0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:31.279 don't pay their speakers. They put them up in hotels 0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:35.279 with roommates, and um there there if I saw this 0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:39.040 thing on Joe Rogan, Eddie huang Um was on. He's 0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:40.799 like a chef and he did a TED talk and 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:45.560 he had this nightmare story about his TED experience. Um. 0:35:45.640 --> 0:35:48.480 So they're raking in a bunch of money. And the 0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:50.880 big thing that they put out is a one million 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:54.919 dollar TED Prize every year, which Bono got one year 0:35:55.000 --> 0:35:58.480 and Jamie Oliver. So there's a lot of Ted's got 0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:00.839 a lot of stuff to be criticized. At the end 0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:03.640 of the day, I agree with you. The talks in 0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:05.839 and of themselves, I have no problem with. Well, yeah, 0:36:05.840 --> 0:36:08.840 and there's a certain demographic that just doesn't want to 0:36:08.840 --> 0:36:11.840 hear Bono talk about starvation or like he he needs 0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:15.120 an extra million dollars for his foundation. You know, like 0:36:15.480 --> 0:36:17.879 that's who that million went to that year. I think 0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:20.640 Bill Clinton won one year too. Yeah, and Jamie Oliver again, 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:23.520 like these guys could just cough up a million dollars 0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:29.799 into their own foundations. So I would strongly recommend go 0:36:30.400 --> 0:36:33.360 read the weight. But why doing a Ted talk post? 0:36:33.880 --> 0:36:37.080 Um read, Uh, we we have to talk about Ted, 0:36:37.239 --> 0:36:41.440 which is a Benjamin Bratton Ted talk, which that's that's 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:44.520 cohones if you ask me. He did a Ted takedown 0:36:44.800 --> 0:36:47.800 at Ted x San Diego, which again is a big one. 0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:50.960 And then um read Ted talks are lying to you? 0:36:51.040 --> 0:36:54.000 Which is that Frank rich one that's about way more 0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:56.720 than Ted Talks. Yeah. I think part of my defense 0:36:56.760 --> 0:37:02.640 here is tied to our own show. And uh, like 0:37:02.719 --> 0:37:05.479 we got an email that we're not even gonna read, 0:37:05.960 --> 0:37:07.560 but we got an email a couple of weeks ago 0:37:07.600 --> 0:37:08.920 that you know, and we get them from time to 0:37:08.920 --> 0:37:12.080 time where you you guys should do this, this and this, 0:37:12.080 --> 0:37:15.080 this is where your show stinks and it should be this, 0:37:16.000 --> 0:37:19.520 And I'm always like, go start your show then, like 0:37:19.600 --> 0:37:22.600 this is what we do and we're not claiming to 0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:25.160 do anything else, right, Yeah, And there's a there's definitely 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:28.959 a difference between saying, hey, I think you guys should 0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:33.239 have guests on more or whatever constructive criticism. But you know, 0:37:33.280 --> 0:37:37.320 if somebody comes along and just doesn't drive by jerk move, 0:37:38.280 --> 0:37:40.239 which I want to see Erin Cooper make a photoshop 0:37:40.280 --> 0:37:45.080 of that, um, that doesn't help. So that's one of 0:37:45.120 --> 0:37:48.120 the things why I think the takedowns are enjoyable to 0:37:48.160 --> 0:37:51.080 read because they make real sense in a lot of ways. 0:37:51.719 --> 0:37:54.880 And also go read on smart It was a Gawker 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:57.000 post from a couple of years ago, and it's very lengthy, 0:37:57.040 --> 0:38:00.799 but it really kind of lays the foundation that's like 0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:04.520 the antithesis of the ted talk sentiment. You know. Yeah, 0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:08.120 I feel it's with social media. I feel like people 0:38:08.120 --> 0:38:11.759 are just sitting and wait to take something down, and 0:38:11.800 --> 0:38:15.640 I'm just tired of it. I have takedown fatigue. I 0:38:15.719 --> 0:38:18.240 know what you mean, but I I don't have takedown 0:38:18.239 --> 0:38:23.680 fatigue for thoughtful, sensible, reasonable takedowns. Agreed um. But I 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:25.799 think when the takedown is on something, it's not like 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:29.800 they're exploiting anybody or you know, it's not like I 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:34.000 mean takedown child labor, not like a ted Talk. It's 0:38:34.040 --> 0:38:39.200 my opinion. Uh, coming up after this break we are 0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:41.320 going to and now we've got a lot of interesting 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:46.000 stuff to talk about with Roman Mars of Invisible right 0:38:46.040 --> 0:39:04.760 after this. All right, well we are back with a 0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:08.439 rare interview, although we've been doing it more and more. 0:39:08.480 --> 0:39:11.239 We had Bill Gates on, and now we have the 0:39:11.280 --> 0:39:18.000 great Roman Mars of the wonderful, awesome Invisible podcast and 0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:22.719 Radio Topia podcast Network. Yeah, the guy is a podcast magnate. 0:39:24.480 --> 0:39:26.520 Hi Roman, Hey guys, how's it going great? How are 0:39:26.560 --> 0:39:29.680 you sir? I'm excellent, Thank you, thanks for having me on. 0:39:29.760 --> 0:39:31.799 I'm I'm so glad to be in the company of 0:39:31.800 --> 0:39:35.640 Bill Gates and yourselves. Well, you know, I wouldn't go 0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:39.440 that far, but uh so we did a podcast on 0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:42.840 Ted talks Um that we already recorded, and so you 0:39:42.920 --> 0:39:46.279 obviously came to mind because you did your very own 0:39:46.320 --> 0:39:49.080 Ted Talk and not a Ted X or a Ted 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:53.759 triple X or whatever versions have. Yeah, you did the 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:57.000 real deal. Yeah, it was something else. It was really fun. 0:39:57.440 --> 0:39:59.680 I highly recommend you do it if you get asked. 0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:02.359 And that was like one one year ago, right, Yeah, 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:04.480 it was almost exactly a year ago. And Roman, what 0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:07.400 was your Ted talk? On? My Ted talk was about 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:12.680 the design of flags? How did you end up on that? Yeah. So, 0:40:13.000 --> 0:40:15.160 you know a lot of times when you're asked to 0:40:15.200 --> 0:40:18.840 a TED Talk, you're you know, a scientist or a 0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:23.040 social scientist or philosopher, who is really you know, when 0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:25.279 you're asked to a TED Talk, you know exactly what 0:40:25.320 --> 0:40:27.800 Ted talk you're goin to give, because it's your life's work. 0:40:28.360 --> 0:40:31.080 Whereas I'm a journalist, I mean I tell stories. So 0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:34.600 when they said do a design story, I had a 0:40:34.600 --> 0:40:37.440 couple of hundred because I do the radio show about it, 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:39.839 and so I just had to pick one that I 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:42.320 was most passionate about. And I tried lots of different 0:40:42.360 --> 0:40:46.440 ideas and I had this world grand unified theory of 0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:48.800 design that I was going to present at some point, 0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:51.120 and I tried it out in different life settings and 0:40:51.120 --> 0:40:52.880 it just wasn't working. And I called him up and 0:40:52.920 --> 0:40:55.160 I said, I just don't know. I have this one. 0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:58.239 I think it's going okay, but I kind of want 0:40:58.239 --> 0:41:01.439 to talk about flags. And they said me, I can 0:41:01.480 --> 0:41:04.279 tell by the sound of your voice you should do 0:41:04.320 --> 0:41:07.880 the flag one because you sound excited about it. So 0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.319 I did and it was it was really fun. Well, yeah, 0:41:10.400 --> 0:41:13.360 I um, I've seen it a couple of times, and 0:41:13.360 --> 0:41:16.520 it's one of my favorite ones. And um, partially because 0:41:16.560 --> 0:41:20.680 of your passion, but partially because like you can, you 0:41:20.680 --> 0:41:24.880 can literally since you winning over that audience as you 0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:27.680 watch it, because they were a little stiff at first, 0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:30.719 and you could like as a as a viewer, like 0:41:30.760 --> 0:41:33.880 I'm watching it and nervous for you at first because 0:41:33.880 --> 0:41:36.800 you're a buddy, and then like you feel already audience 0:41:36.800 --> 0:41:39.200 like literally warming up to you, and then before you 0:41:39.200 --> 0:41:40.960 know it, they're like everyone's laughing at you. And it 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:42.760 ended up being one of the one of the funnier, 0:41:42.800 --> 0:41:45.600 more amusing Ted talks I've seen. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, 0:41:45.600 --> 0:41:47.719 I felt that too, ifect. In fact, I felt that 0:41:47.760 --> 0:41:52.279 the whole week because I gave my talk on a Thursday, 0:41:52.360 --> 0:41:55.320 and so I was there from you know, Saturday to Thursday, 0:41:55.360 --> 0:41:58.560 and then the last day it's a Friday, and so 0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:01.600 all week when you when they see that you're a speaker, 0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.359 you can see it on your badge. The first thing 0:42:04.360 --> 0:42:06.440 people ask you was what your talk is about? And 0:42:06.480 --> 0:42:08.839 I was just a little shy about talking about it 0:42:09.040 --> 0:42:13.160 because I know it's a little topic when people. I mean, 0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:16.400 the guy the next day, you know, he won a 0:42:16.440 --> 0:42:20.080 Nobel Peace Prize for freeing eighty thousand child slaves. You know, 0:42:20.280 --> 0:42:22.920 you're like, I'm gonna give my flag talk, you know, 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:28.480 you know, so oh my god. And so I was 0:42:28.520 --> 0:42:32.080 really sheepish about it. But um, one of the things 0:42:32.120 --> 0:42:35.399 I loved and my my sense of accomplishment was really um. 0:42:36.160 --> 0:42:38.319 I was just I was kind of proud that it 0:42:38.400 --> 0:42:40.880 was sort of a small topic that I was passionate 0:42:40.920 --> 0:42:43.000 about and it still won them over and I knew 0:42:43.000 --> 0:42:45.879 it would. It was. It was fun to do. Yeah, 0:42:46.000 --> 0:42:47.879 for those of you who haven't seen it, first of all, 0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.799 watch it because it's as all Ted talks, it's under 0:42:50.800 --> 0:42:55.560 twenty minutes, and it's um it's about the design. Um 0:42:55.600 --> 0:42:59.840 about flag design, but even more specifically city flags of 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:02.440 United States kind of all around the world. But you 0:43:02.440 --> 0:43:04.759 you really uh, I mean, you did a great job 0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:07.480 for non flag enthusiast. I mean the first thing I 0:43:07.480 --> 0:43:10.160 did was look up the Atlanta flag afterward, and of 0:43:10.160 --> 0:43:12.360 course ours is one of those with the state seal. 0:43:13.120 --> 0:43:15.360 Uh you have a phoenix on it. It does have 0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:18.640 a phoenix. Uh, yeah, I think it. I think there's 0:43:18.640 --> 0:43:21.000 a phoenix, but it's contained within the state seal, which 0:43:21.520 --> 0:43:25.080 Roman says is just bad design. Yeah. I mean. The 0:43:25.080 --> 0:43:27.680 funny thing about the Atlanta flag, if you will allow 0:43:27.760 --> 0:43:32.720 me to digress, is uh, that is that it also 0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:35.600 has a phoenix, you know, rising from flame, just like 0:43:35.640 --> 0:43:38.440 the San Francisco flag does. Um. But actually I think 0:43:38.440 --> 0:43:41.040 it's designed a little a lot better. So if one 0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:43.279 of us had to keep it, I would vote for 0:43:43.320 --> 0:43:45.640 Atlanta keeping it the way it is, whereas I think 0:43:45.680 --> 0:43:48.560 that San Francisco is an abomination. But if I think 0:43:48.600 --> 0:43:52.279 we both kind of need to step aside for you know, 0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:55.480 the city of Phoenix, which has a phoenix on its 0:43:55.480 --> 0:44:00.400 flag too, Okay, good so um, but I think Atlanta, 0:44:00.640 --> 0:44:02.399 you know, like as much as it is, it's still 0:44:02.400 --> 0:44:04.000 a cell. I think it's I think it's all right. 0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:08.200 I thought San Francisco's was tie died it would be 0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:12.000 more appropriate. I think. So were you were you nervous 0:44:12.160 --> 0:44:15.920 while you were preparing for this, like we oh, this 0:44:15.960 --> 0:44:19.240 is this is part of a larger episode on Ted Talks, 0:44:19.280 --> 0:44:20.800 And one of the things we ran across is that 0:44:20.880 --> 0:44:24.520 it's a very long, nerve wracking process. Yeah. I mean, 0:44:24.600 --> 0:44:29.200 if it's your typical typically you're you're contacted months and 0:44:29.239 --> 0:44:32.560 months ahead of time, so I was contacted in August 0:44:32.680 --> 0:44:37.560 of the year before and performed it in March. So 0:44:38.000 --> 0:44:39.880 for a couple of months you're just trying to figure 0:44:39.880 --> 0:44:42.600 out what you're gonna do, and you know, trying to 0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:46.279 trying to do your best to write something early so 0:44:46.320 --> 0:44:50.560 that they have something to react against and UM, the 0:44:50.560 --> 0:44:53.440 whole process is really nerve wracking. Even even people who 0:44:53.440 --> 0:44:59.600 are really seasoned presenters UM run against this. They it's 0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:03.280 so prizing how the venue really really makes you nervous. 0:45:03.440 --> 0:45:06.799 The one thing you probably can't see is that it's 0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:12.680 the most well lit auditorium you've ever been in. So 0:45:13.360 --> 0:45:15.520 one of the things that makes performing in front a 0:45:15.560 --> 0:45:18.919 lot of people really uh easy is you have those 0:45:19.000 --> 0:45:20.799 lights you know, in your eyes and you can't really 0:45:20.800 --> 0:45:24.960 see anybody, and you're kind of just performing to yourself. Well, 0:45:25.000 --> 0:45:27.359 here you can see every face, and not only can 0:45:27.360 --> 0:45:29.359 you see every face, but you can see faces like 0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:35.280 Bill Gates and Al Gore and it's super nerve wracking. Yeah, 0:45:35.440 --> 0:45:42.319 we've met the people you UM. One of the things, too, 0:45:42.400 --> 0:45:45.839 Roman that that was different about yours was that you 0:45:46.640 --> 0:45:50.920 defied convention by sitting down at your table and doing UM. 0:45:50.960 --> 0:45:53.799 Having audio and visual aids and you you make a 0:45:53.840 --> 0:45:56.120 crack about it at the beginning, like who was this 0:45:56.120 --> 0:45:58.720 guy who can sit down? He said, well, this is radio. 0:45:59.080 --> 0:46:02.040 Did you have a hard time talking them into that approach? 0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:04.720 Not at all. That was something that I had psyched 0:46:04.719 --> 0:46:07.000 myself out. And a lot of people do psych themselves 0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:10.600 out when they deal with TED because it's so prestigious 0:46:10.800 --> 0:46:12.560 and and so cool to be a part of it. 0:46:13.600 --> 0:46:17.799 But um, just like the flag talk itself, where I was, 0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:20.319 you know, I want to do a little small thing 0:46:20.320 --> 0:46:23.399 and not the big, grand TED talk. I had said, Well, 0:46:23.400 --> 0:46:26.839 by the way, I I kind of do these live 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:29.480 presentations where I present it like a podcast where I 0:46:29.520 --> 0:46:33.239 have sound clips and interview clips and music clips and 0:46:33.440 --> 0:46:35.600 I sit down and it's kind of like being an 0:46:35.680 --> 0:46:40.440 information DJ. And they were so excited about that that 0:46:40.920 --> 0:46:42.479 I don't know why I didn't talk to him about 0:46:42.520 --> 0:46:46.000 it sooner. It was kind of, you know, it was 0:46:46.080 --> 0:46:49.560 my fault in a way. So they they really want 0:46:49.600 --> 0:46:51.920 you to be yourself. They're trying to get you to 0:46:51.960 --> 0:46:55.960 be yourself if you've never interesting. Yeah, so so like 0:46:56.640 --> 0:46:58.640 you know, you see all the different things that they do, 0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:00.360 and there's like there's a there is a lot of 0:47:00.440 --> 0:47:05.000 qualities they're shared across ted talks, and so you think 0:47:05.040 --> 0:47:07.480 that they sort of insist on that. But what they 0:47:07.880 --> 0:47:09.960 know how to do is if you're like a plant 0:47:09.960 --> 0:47:12.879 biologist and you've never given a talk before, they know 0:47:12.920 --> 0:47:15.200 how to get you to give a good talk. But 0:47:15.280 --> 0:47:18.640 if you've presented in lots of different ways before, you know, 0:47:18.760 --> 0:47:22.319 they're totally happy to let you defy convention. They want 0:47:22.360 --> 0:47:25.000 you to defy convention. That See, that surprises me because 0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:28.520 we we figured uh, and I understood why you were 0:47:28.520 --> 0:47:31.399 nervous that they were really strict about what is tad 0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:34.600 and what isn't. Yeah, they don't. They want to be, 0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:37.879 you know, a place of good ideas and understanding, and 0:47:38.800 --> 0:47:41.399 they have a certain way that they know that they 0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:45.719 can make anyone get there in a way using their methods, 0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:49.799 and they're really smart about that. But if you have 0:47:49.880 --> 0:47:51.960 your own way and as long as the result is 0:47:52.000 --> 0:47:53.600 good and they have confidence in that and you have 0:47:53.640 --> 0:47:56.560 confidence in yourself, they're really happy for you to do 0:47:56.640 --> 0:47:59.040 it your own way. And they want to be surprised too. 0:47:59.160 --> 0:48:03.200 There they're um, they're they're really delightful. But again, my 0:48:03.320 --> 0:48:05.920 big problem was I had psyched myself out in some 0:48:05.960 --> 0:48:08.520 way to think. I was like, God, if I asked 0:48:08.560 --> 0:48:11.480 them for the table and the sound stuff, They're going 0:48:11.520 --> 0:48:13.880 to be annoyed at me. And I'm just a podcaster 0:48:14.160 --> 0:48:18.560 and what am I doing here? And so and so 0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:22.480 like so I was just really um. But as soon 0:48:22.520 --> 0:48:25.440 as I brought it up, they were super happy to 0:48:25.520 --> 0:48:27.480 do it. And and and I didn't want to be 0:48:27.520 --> 0:48:30.120 any trouble and stuff, and you know, and I would 0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:32.440 talk to the the the the you know, the different 0:48:32.480 --> 0:48:35.440 set people and sound people and you know, the stage 0:48:35.440 --> 0:48:39.759 manager of the you know, of the thing has like 0:48:39.880 --> 0:48:42.919 done the Academy Awards and and and they're like, you're 0:48:43.120 --> 0:48:46.360 don't worry, we can handle You're sitting at a table, 0:48:46.680 --> 0:48:49.920 you know. But like it's not it's not a big deal, 0:48:50.200 --> 0:48:52.640 you know. You know we you know, they just did 0:48:53.000 --> 0:48:57.360 Sounded Music Live last week, you know, so so it's 0:48:57.400 --> 0:49:00.719 it's not you know, it was just it was that 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:02.680 was the weird part was getting over and once you 0:49:02.800 --> 0:49:06.120 sort of like inside the fold, you realize that they're 0:49:06.120 --> 0:49:08.279 all on the team with you, trying to make you 0:49:08.719 --> 0:49:11.200 be the best you can be. So Roman one of 0:49:11.200 --> 0:49:13.360 the things we ran across some research was there's a 0:49:14.160 --> 0:49:18.920 definite undercurrent in popular culture that people love doing Ted takedowns. 0:49:19.400 --> 0:49:21.880 They love writing articles about how snooty TED is and 0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:26.279 how elitist it is, and um, what was your experience 0:49:26.280 --> 0:49:28.040 with that, Like, did you see what those people are 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:30.399 talking about and they just have it wrong? Or did 0:49:30.440 --> 0:49:32.759 you just did you not really encounter that? Because it 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:37.359 sounds like your your experience is altogether positive. Well, yeah, 0:49:37.440 --> 0:49:40.200 my my seriance was altogether positive. I must admit that 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:43.200 before I was involved in it, I don't know if 0:49:43.200 --> 0:49:46.880 I was really part of TED, you know, takedown, I 0:49:46.920 --> 0:49:49.920 didn't have that sentiment. But I was skeptical because a 0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:54.319 lot of it is it reeks of certain types of solutionism, 0:49:54.320 --> 0:49:58.160 where you know, one you know, technical fix or design 0:49:58.239 --> 0:50:01.080 fix will save the world in some way that is 0:50:02.120 --> 0:50:05.200 believable for eighteen minutes, but then you know, you get 0:50:05.200 --> 0:50:08.279 out in the real world and it seems it just 0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:12.120 seems hokey and um and not applicable to actual, real 0:50:12.200 --> 0:50:14.880 lives and real people. And so I was kind of 0:50:14.880 --> 0:50:18.520 I mean, I I skeptical in that way too, but 0:50:19.200 --> 0:50:21.799 when I and it, and it's also just like I'm 0:50:21.840 --> 0:50:26.319 not of the world where you spend to go to 0:50:26.360 --> 0:50:30.239 a conference that is not my world for sure. So 0:50:31.640 --> 0:50:33.680 I went with a little bit of that, like thinking 0:50:33.680 --> 0:50:36.319 about that a lot when I was there, And what 0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:40.520 I left with was this real joy of being around 0:50:40.520 --> 0:50:45.240 two thousand people who were really trying something and really 0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:48.680 wanted to think optimistically about the world and wanted to 0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:54.040 learn and more curious. And I just felt, I don't know, 0:50:54.080 --> 0:50:57.640 I was sold on it. In so many ways it was. 0:50:58.320 --> 0:51:01.120 And there was a very little hierarchy when you're there, 0:51:01.680 --> 0:51:05.160 which is pretty interesting. Um, You'll be standing in line, 0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:09.360 um for something, and it'll be some you know, CEO 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:14.560 billionaire and uh, and they want to engage with you 0:51:14.640 --> 0:51:16.799 in lots of ways. You still, I mean, it's still 0:51:16.880 --> 0:51:20.040 like normal people don't go to TED in a way 0:51:20.120 --> 0:51:22.120 like you don't. You don't have a lot of cause 0:51:22.640 --> 0:51:26.279 to spend that type of money. Um so and and 0:51:26.360 --> 0:51:28.600 I'm one of those people that can't go unless you know, 0:51:28.640 --> 0:51:33.040 they asked me to go. But um, in general, I 0:51:33.040 --> 0:51:37.840 would say that I'm happy that those folks are engaged 0:51:37.880 --> 0:51:39.560 and trying to think about the world in lots of 0:51:39.600 --> 0:51:43.880 different ways and trying to be inspired, and um, you know, 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:46.600 if we don't live up to it, all the time 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:50.120 after we leave um at least there's some effort in 0:51:50.160 --> 0:51:54.200 the right direction. So I liked it. Yeah. I liked 0:51:54.200 --> 0:51:57.480 how you finish your episode, in particular because it was 0:51:58.320 --> 0:52:00.960 about the design of city flag. Then you didn't say like, 0:52:01.040 --> 0:52:03.560 this will change the world if you redesign your flag, 0:52:04.040 --> 0:52:07.319 but you did say, you know, it can make a 0:52:07.320 --> 0:52:12.240 difference if the city has a great flag behind them 0:52:12.280 --> 0:52:15.160 to rally around, and it can be a unifying thing. 0:52:15.239 --> 0:52:17.640 And I just, uh, I don't know. I appreciated that 0:52:17.640 --> 0:52:20.439 sentiment at the end for sure. Yeah. And and they're 0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:23.480 interested in that. They want people to take some action 0:52:23.520 --> 0:52:25.720 and do something, and that's something that they're really into. 0:52:25.800 --> 0:52:28.240 And there's like this year I went to something where 0:52:28.760 --> 0:52:33.480 somebody was putting together a museum of of lynching actually 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:35.640 like a civil rights museum about the history of lynching 0:52:35.640 --> 0:52:37.480 in the United States. And I don't know if this 0:52:37.719 --> 0:52:39.719 thing had been released yet, but they're raising money for it. 0:52:39.760 --> 0:52:42.360 And so as soon as the thing was over, everyone 0:52:43.120 --> 0:52:44.880 there was like a Okay, we're gonna go upstairs and 0:52:44.960 --> 0:52:47.080 we go raise money for this. And they raised a 0:52:47.080 --> 0:52:49.279 lot of money for it that day. And it was 0:52:49.360 --> 0:52:51.640 just something. It was like something to watch the power 0:52:51.680 --> 0:52:55.800 of that room to get stuff done was was really 0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:59.360 incredible and so you know, so I you know, I 0:52:59.400 --> 0:53:03.360 try not to overdue mine to the importance of it. 0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:07.279 I was really cognizant of how small it was in 0:53:07.280 --> 0:53:10.400 a certain way, but um, but I like people to 0:53:10.440 --> 0:53:12.120 think about it in a in a bigger way that 0:53:12.440 --> 0:53:16.640 well designed things and civic pride and having some pride 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:18.800 is a big part of how we get things done, 0:53:19.160 --> 0:53:21.359 and so you know, it leaves people with a little 0:53:21.400 --> 0:53:23.680 bit to think about, but also just just to be entertained. 0:53:23.719 --> 0:53:27.000 That was my main goal. Cool was there? Um? I mean, 0:53:27.320 --> 0:53:29.440 is there like an after party? Do you get feedback 0:53:29.560 --> 0:53:34.520 from people afterwards and audience? Yeah, I mean it's it's great. 0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:38.640 Ted is much better after you're done before you start, 0:53:39.480 --> 0:53:42.440 and because I had all week of just being super 0:53:42.480 --> 0:53:44.920 nervous and thinking, got into some torp with the flag 0:53:44.960 --> 0:53:48.040 talk and then then you're done and people kind of 0:53:48.040 --> 0:53:50.680 know what you're about and uh, and they want to 0:53:50.680 --> 0:53:52.600 talk to you. And it's fun because you're like an 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:55.919 expert of that thing, and so it's really it's really 0:53:55.960 --> 0:53:58.520 enjoyable that give you. We had lots of good feedback, 0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:01.200 lots of um and stuff, And I think that people 0:54:01.280 --> 0:54:05.239 liked the format change and I finally got a sense 0:54:05.280 --> 0:54:08.360 of my role in the in the week, you know, 0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:11.440 along with the really important kind of heavy hitters, like 0:54:11.440 --> 0:54:14.480 they do like to have lighter and comic relief. And 0:54:15.440 --> 0:54:17.520 I mean, you know, don't get me wrong, it's not 0:54:17.800 --> 0:54:19.759 like I'm not a stand up comedian. It was just 0:54:20.280 --> 0:54:23.640 you know, he was just enjoying. So it's you know, 0:54:23.800 --> 0:54:28.880 Ted comedy. It's like NPR comedy is really similar and um, 0:54:29.200 --> 0:54:32.400 but it but it was. It's it's super fun. So 0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:34.920 there's tons of parties and tons of like there's a 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:38.640 big social part of Ted. Awesome. Um, what do you 0:54:38.640 --> 0:54:41.160 feel like And you don't have to like get specific 0:54:41.239 --> 0:54:43.760 if somebody like stuffed a bunch of money in your pocket, 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:47.520 but what do you feel like it did for Invisible 0:54:47.560 --> 0:54:51.239 and Radiotopia? I mean it exposed me to a bunch 0:54:51.239 --> 0:54:54.120 of new people. They got to see the I know 0:54:54.160 --> 0:54:56.120 a lot of people have started listening to the show 0:54:56.280 --> 0:54:59.680 after seeing the Ted talk. Um it's a little different 0:54:59.719 --> 0:55:02.680 from me, which was it was kind of fascinating because 0:55:02.800 --> 0:55:05.560 I do have a public show, in a public profile 0:55:06.080 --> 0:55:08.960 and a pretty popular show. It's not quite as popular 0:55:09.040 --> 0:55:11.960 as uh it's Ted, but you know, we get we 0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:17.399 get several million downloads amounts too, and so um, it 0:55:17.440 --> 0:55:22.120 wasn't that huge like catapult from you know, obscurity as 0:55:22.120 --> 0:55:24.640 a social scientist and and and out there in the world. 0:55:25.160 --> 0:55:26.960 But it was just nice. It was like a nice 0:55:27.000 --> 0:55:30.839 compliment to the things that we already do and um. 0:55:30.880 --> 0:55:33.040 And it was just also fun to present stories in 0:55:33.040 --> 0:55:35.600 a new way because you know, because we are a podcast, 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:38.839 we and we are a podcast often about visual things 0:55:38.840 --> 0:55:41.879 because we covered design, it was nice to have this 0:55:42.360 --> 0:55:46.759 other presentational format that had um, had some pictures, you know, 0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:48.480 so it's kind of it was just it was just 0:55:48.560 --> 0:55:50.840 really fun, like it was a great experience for me. 0:55:51.560 --> 0:55:54.480 Nice man, thank you for talking with this Roman. We 0:55:54.520 --> 0:56:00.440 appreciate it. You are the Ted Talking List friend we have. Actually, 0:56:00.480 --> 0:56:03.120 that's not true. Hodgman did one too as well. He's 0:56:03.120 --> 0:56:05.440 done a couple. Yeah, he's done a couple. Oh. He 0:56:05.560 --> 0:56:07.400 the only one I've seen of Hodgeman is it was 0:56:07.480 --> 0:56:10.440 very sweet. He talked about meeting his wife. Oh nice 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:13.200 was that that had to be a Ted X. Maybe 0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:16.240 he's in Western Man, he's a he's he's a regular. 0:56:16.320 --> 0:56:18.160 But it's really fun. I'm going back this year as 0:56:18.200 --> 0:56:22.960 a TED mentor worked with other speakers and that was 0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:26.760 that was pretty enjoyable too. So are you practicing clapping 0:56:26.760 --> 0:56:32.200 your hands and going wrong, wrong, wrong for rehearsals. No, No, 0:56:32.239 --> 0:56:35.520 not exactly. It's very supportive. By One of the things 0:56:35.560 --> 0:56:38.200 that you don't get about TED is because the videos 0:56:38.200 --> 0:56:40.919 are edited, you don't see the all the mistakes. And 0:56:41.040 --> 0:56:44.799 I guarantee that everyone has made a mistake um in 0:56:44.840 --> 0:56:47.439 a TED talk. And one of the great things about 0:56:47.520 --> 0:56:49.880 the whole vibe of the room, and you might not 0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:53.399 know this from watching it, is that the whole room 0:56:53.520 --> 0:56:56.719 is like on your side. They're really really rooting for you. 0:56:56.800 --> 0:56:59.719 They want to they want to be wowed, and so 0:57:00.040 --> 0:57:03.200 if something technically goes wrong or you flub and have 0:57:03.320 --> 0:57:08.279 to restart, the whole crowd just applauds and cheers and 0:57:08.360 --> 0:57:11.640 just gets you going again. And it's really something. It's 0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:14.799 like so like joyful. Have you ever had a room 0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:19.240 full of billionaires clap for you? Yeah, But it's something 0:57:19.280 --> 0:57:22.640 you don't pick up from the presentation, which gets a 0:57:22.640 --> 0:57:27.360 little it's pretty slick. It's that that roughness that makes 0:57:27.400 --> 0:57:31.720 people like they're really you can sort of rely on 0:57:31.800 --> 0:57:35.120 them to lift you up. Um, and it's uh, it's 0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:37.000 it's kind of a it's a nice room to be 0:57:37.040 --> 0:57:40.160 in as an audience member and as a personal stage. Wow. 0:57:40.240 --> 0:57:43.480 Well that's good to know actually, because it seemed yeah, 0:57:43.640 --> 0:57:45.520 I mean, it seems like you're walking into a room 0:57:45.560 --> 0:57:49.600 full of like a firing squad, not you, but just anybody, 0:57:49.600 --> 0:57:52.440 because it's just so quiet and it just seems stiff 0:57:52.560 --> 0:57:58.480 and um seem they hissed anytime you made a mistake. Exactly. 0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:02.040 It's not like that. It's a it's exact opposite. We 0:58:02.160 --> 0:58:04.400 I watched a train wreck of this talk this year. 0:58:05.720 --> 0:58:07.440 It was kind of the it was the most kind 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:10.440 of amazing moment because people like stood up and cheered 0:58:10.440 --> 0:58:13.080 and try to get this kid going, and it was amazing. 0:58:13.160 --> 0:58:14.720 And it was such a disaster. It was like a 0:58:14.720 --> 0:58:20.240 performance arts. Like you're making my stomach hurt right now. Yeah, 0:58:20.280 --> 0:58:22.400 I know, but it but it was but in a way, 0:58:22.480 --> 0:58:25.320 it was like this catharic event for all six people 0:58:25.320 --> 0:58:27.080 in the theater and it was it was it was 0:58:27.120 --> 0:58:30.920 kind of fun. All right, Roman, thank you my friend, 0:58:31.120 --> 0:58:34.720 and um people, really, I know. We we talked about 0:58:35.440 --> 0:58:41.120 invisible more than we should as competitors, but it's a great, 0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:44.880 great show and people should support that. In radiotopia, always 0:58:44.880 --> 0:58:46.920 tell people if you don't, even if you don't think 0:58:46.920 --> 0:58:50.920 you like design, you should just try Invisible because it's 0:58:51.000 --> 0:58:52.720 much much more than that. Where can they go to 0:58:52.760 --> 0:58:55.400 find you, Roman, They can find us on our website 0:58:55.440 --> 0:58:58.480 at p I dot org or you know anywhere where 0:58:58.520 --> 0:59:01.760 you get podcasts. Well, thank you for coming on. Thank 0:59:01.800 --> 0:59:04.680 you so much. Yeah, my pleasure. I really appreciate it. 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:07.440 I'm a huge fan. It's very exciting to me. Thanks man. 0:59:07.560 --> 0:59:11.160 All right, Well we'll talk to you soon. So Chuck. 0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:14.720 Uh that's Ted Talks. Yeah, thanks Roman, that was awesome. Yeah, 0:59:14.760 --> 0:59:16.320 what a cool dude. If you want to know more 0:59:16.320 --> 0:59:18.640 about Ted Talks, well just type Ted Talks into a 0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:21.560 search bar and start watching Ted Talks. There's a million 0:59:21.600 --> 0:59:24.520 of them basically. Um, and you can also read the 0:59:24.600 --> 0:59:27.680 article on how stuff Works about it. Yeah, um, and 0:59:27.720 --> 0:59:29.720 I said how stuff works, which means this time for 0:59:34.400 --> 0:59:38.560 I'm gonna call this cremation. We did a great show 0:59:38.560 --> 0:59:41.040 on cremation quite a while ago. If we do say 0:59:41.080 --> 0:59:43.640 so so, If we do say so, this from Emily. 0:59:43.720 --> 0:59:46.320 She says, Hey, guys, my dad was just listening to cremation. 0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:49.600 My dad was cremated in two thousand four after passing 0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:53.200 away to stupid idiot cancer. Uh. And my step mom 0:59:53.280 --> 0:59:56.680 has really had a really interesting concept. She's really big 0:59:56.720 --> 1:00:00.560 on recycling. She's known locally as the Queen of recycling 1:00:00.600 --> 1:00:04.960 in Indianapolis. Wow, not bad. She found hundreds of teeny 1:00:05.000 --> 1:00:08.560 tiny medical bottles about the size of the last segment 1:00:08.600 --> 1:00:13.240 of your pinkie with tiny rubber plugs. She hand filled 1:00:13.760 --> 1:00:17.200 like three hundred bottles with my dad's creamines and put 1:00:17.200 --> 1:00:19.560 them on the mantle of the lodge at which we 1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:22.440 hosted his celebration. We had a celebration instead of a 1:00:22.480 --> 1:00:26.160 funeral outdoors under fall leaves, with wine and live music. 1:00:26.840 --> 1:00:30.880 As he was locally loved as a folk musician Craig Laughlin, 1:00:31.760 --> 1:00:33.640 all who loved him could take a few of the 1:00:33.680 --> 1:00:38.960 bottles of him with them. Pretty neat. That's a great party, favor. 1:00:39.080 --> 1:00:42.080 I think it's awesome. Since then, he's been to the 1:00:42.200 --> 1:00:45.760 Vango Museum in Amsterdam, he's in the Bellaggio Fountain in 1:00:45.840 --> 1:00:50.120 Las Vegas, and most recently he's mixed been mixed into 1:00:50.160 --> 1:00:56.880 black volcanics and in Iceland's snuff Alopicus Peninsula. It's called 1:00:57.280 --> 1:00:59.640 She even sent me how to pronounce its snail falls 1:00:59.720 --> 1:01:03.360 and and it's this. I've also scattered him in every 1:01:03.400 --> 1:01:05.880 apartment I've lived in since, always in the very back 1:01:05.920 --> 1:01:09.640 corner of a closet or in a crack somewhere. Um. Anyways, 1:01:09.640 --> 1:01:12.000 thanks for the episode. Pretty informative and I'm sure my 1:01:12.040 --> 1:01:14.080 dad would giggle if you knew his body was flailing 1:01:14.080 --> 1:01:18.439 around in the flames at the end. That's very cool. Yeah, 1:01:18.440 --> 1:01:19.920 that's from Emily. And when I told her she was 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:23.200 on listr mail, she just responded with a big uppercase 1:01:23.360 --> 1:01:29.800 expletive with an exclamation point. Shoot yep. And I was like, right, 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:34.760 that's cool. Thanks. Emily's very excited. That is really neat, Like, uh, 1:01:34.920 --> 1:01:37.640 that's just a great story. Yeah, and you know what, 1:01:37.800 --> 1:01:39.360 if you want to send some of your dad's cream, 1:01:39.360 --> 1:01:43.360 anes will have him here in the studio with us. Yeah, yeah, 1:01:43.400 --> 1:01:46.320 why not. Okay, I can't play any folk music though, no, 1:01:46.480 --> 1:01:48.400 but we'll we'll, we would take good care of it. 1:01:48.440 --> 1:01:51.200 And if you decided to do so, that's right. Okay, 1:01:51.560 --> 1:01:54.520 thanks for that, Chuck, and thank you Emily. Either way, 1:01:54.560 --> 1:01:56.680 whether you take him up on it or not. 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