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Speaker 1: Tour Spring has sprung, everybody. This is Chuck and we
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Speaker 1: Those are the ones we have so far. We're gonna
Speaker 1: add a couple of more though, the Neptune Theater on
Speaker 1: April eighth in Seattle, Revolution Hall in Portland on April ninth,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna take a little break and we're gonna
Speaker 1: go to Houston on a Warehouse Live and then Denver, Colorado,
Speaker 1: May twenty nine. It's a Sunday labor I'm sorry, Memorial
Speaker 1: Day weekend at the Gothic Theater. And you can get
Speaker 1: all the information for tickets at s y s K
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Speaker 1: to get on it because tickets are going fast. It's
Speaker 1: gonna sell out soon. Houston and Denver tickets are going
Speaker 1: on sale this Friday, that would be tomorrow. And I
Speaker 1: believe we're even having a pre sale for Denver today,
Speaker 1: So I don't have that password yet, but if you
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Speaker 1: K live dot com, we're gonna post the pre sale
Speaker 1: password for today for Denver. We hope see you guys there.
Speaker 1: We love you. Goodbye, Welcome to you Stuff you should
Speaker 1: know from House Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome
Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Sounded like Jonathan's Chickland.
Speaker 1: Just then there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, there's Jerry Stuff
Speaker 1: you should know in the house, Yes, sir, so Chuck.
Speaker 1: Before we get started, I think we should make a
Speaker 1: clarification here because we inadvertently offended some people on our
Speaker 1: makeup episode. I mentioned that it was International Women's Day,
Speaker 1: so it's not really a happy okay. I understand that.
Speaker 1: I realized that. And it's not like we said, hey,
Speaker 1: it's International Women's Day, what topics should we do? What topics?
Speaker 1: Screams women fresh International Women's Day makeup. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: that at all. We selected makeup. It was International Women's
Speaker 1: Day and I didn't want it to go by unmarked yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was completely coincidental. So we we didn't
Speaker 1: mean to offend anyone. And uh I hopefully our track
Speaker 1: record as UH feminists stands up. But um so may
Speaker 1: a couple to all those who are offended. And you
Speaker 1: know what, We're gonna do one on International Women's Day
Speaker 1: and the Equal Rights Amendments. Yeah, next year for International
Speaker 1: Women's Day, about International Women's Day, and maybe we'll do
Speaker 1: the e r A before then. Yeah it sounds great. Okay, good,
Speaker 1: good job, buddy. All right, so let's let's get started.
Speaker 1: How you doing, man? I was talking to Jerry before
Speaker 1: you came in about just life. There's a lot of life,
Speaker 1: lots of stuff going on in every avenue. There's all
Speaker 1: this planning, like we're like working on dates for stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's just like constant what going on. You're
Speaker 1: gonna melt down? No, I'm not. I'm hanging in there,
Speaker 1: and I'm doing so by saying, uh, you got a
Speaker 1: pretty good brain trust in your brain? Good? I got Stanima,
Speaker 1: Oh boy, I've got Stanman perfect. Well, there it is.
Speaker 1: There's the crack in the dike. Everybody. I have a
Speaker 1: crack in my brain today because if you remember we
Speaker 1: were sent We mentioned the Crown Royal Rye whiskey off handedly.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I know what your stories, and they sent
Speaker 1: us six bottles of Crown Royal, and um, I got
Speaker 1: into it last night. How many bottles? Oh? Not, I
Speaker 1: didn't drink bottles? Please? Which one did you start with?
Speaker 1: Did you start with the Northern rye? Well, I'd already
Speaker 1: tried it. I still have not. No, I've been like
Speaker 1: really holding everything together, so I haven't had time to
Speaker 1: sit down and like really enjoy some rye. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: tried the rye, but um, they also sent this single
Speaker 1: malt the yeah, the x O. Uh well we got
Speaker 1: two different ones. Really, we got the same Ryan, then
Speaker 1: the same regular, and then each of us had a
Speaker 1: different So you get a single, like a single malt whiskey,
Speaker 1: single Mault Canadian whiskey. Nice. So I got into that
Speaker 1: a little bit last night because I've been stressed and
Speaker 1: now I'm I've got cobwebs. That's great, chunk. I was
Speaker 1: googling at my desk earlier hangover blurred vision. Oh it's
Speaker 1: that bad, just to make sure I wasn't like it,
Speaker 1: didn't need to go to hospital for some condition. And
Speaker 1: it said, Hey, don't worry, You're just hung over. That's
Speaker 1: why you have blurred vision. She could listen to her
Speaker 1: hangover episode. I know, I couldn't remember if blurred vision was.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was. I think maybe if you
Speaker 1: have a turpentine hangover, blurred vision is, but not from
Speaker 1: com royal It maybe something else. All right, well, hanging
Speaker 1: on by threads, I'll carry us both in this episode.
Speaker 1: Then how about that she just kicked back and relax
Speaker 1: and turn right, turner, that's right. How do you remember
Speaker 1: the time when you realize that Ted wasn't someone's name? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but was it immediate or had you heard of Ted
Speaker 1: for a little while before you're like, oh, there's not
Speaker 1: actually a Ted. No. I think I caught onto the
Speaker 1: Ted Talks when most everyone else did. Was when they
Speaker 1: became readily available and distributed on YouTube. It was like
Speaker 1: two six, Yeah, that's when they really like, uh launched.
Speaker 1: Oh you were early, that's early. Yeah. And I wasn't
Speaker 1: like watching them all the time, but I knew what
Speaker 1: it was and pot this is certainly neat in a
Speaker 1: version of what we do. Yeah, yeah, I'm I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't remember when I first saw a TED talk,
Speaker 1: but I became aware of them as like a thing. Well,
Speaker 1: we weren't doing this later for sure, so I didn't
Speaker 1: think that at the time. See, yeah right, so UM TED.
Speaker 1: In fact, for those of you who don't know the
Speaker 1: three of you, UM does not stand for it's not
Speaker 1: a person name. It stands for technology, entertainment, and design,
Speaker 1: and UM. TED talks are talks originally about things that
Speaker 1: fell under those three general topics, but have since expanded
Speaker 1: tremendously and have become this kind of global creativity thinker
Speaker 1: brand that falls very much in line with the the
Speaker 1: idea and the feeling behind UM San Francisco and Silicon
Speaker 1: Valley uber UM, the building we work in, like all
Speaker 1: like this, this whole kind of new technocratic idealism is
Speaker 1: the TED is very much a foundation of that, and
Speaker 1: help and help foster it for sure, yea. Although it
Speaker 1: covers wide range of topics now anything a technocrat would
Speaker 1: be interested in it is well, and not even technology.
Speaker 1: It incomes as all kinds of eythings. Yeah. Do you
Speaker 1: remember our Long Now episode, the one about the ten
Speaker 1: thousand year clock that would if you, if you are
Speaker 1: at all interested in TED talks or this episode, go
Speaker 1: listen to that one that will definitely be in your
Speaker 1: wheelhouse to agreed. And they are eighteen minutes long. Uh,
Speaker 1: because supposedly that is the length of the human u
Speaker 1: uh span of intentions, attention span. That's right that I
Speaker 1: love how everybody couches that. And supposedly, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: is there did you look up as there science behind that?
Speaker 1: Couldn't find anything behind it. I'm sure that there is
Speaker 1: some social science study about it that concluded that that's
Speaker 1: the case. That doesn't mean that's it's a neat construct
Speaker 1: and I think a selling point for Ted talks because, uh,
Speaker 1: this article points out, um, they are tailor made for
Speaker 1: today because they're shortish and shareable and um, they're sort
Speaker 1: of perfect for our new social media age. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: guy who wrote this article, Dave Russ, basically puts it
Speaker 1: like Ted is ready made for the digital age. Like
Speaker 1: you said, they're eighteen minutes long, they're shareable, and Ted
Speaker 1: very presciently started sharing these things online for free in
Speaker 1: two thousand six, and that was a year after YouTube.
Speaker 1: And I remember when YouTube came around, it was like
Speaker 1: it was not a given that YouTube was always going
Speaker 1: to be here like it is today and so to
Speaker 1: release all of your stuff, all your videos online back
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six that had had a decent
Speaker 1: amount of foresight. Very teddy, so teddy. All right, well,
Speaker 1: let's go back in time a little bit, because this
Speaker 1: very much surprised me. Uh not back to two thousand
Speaker 1: four or even nineteen ninety four. Yeah, go ahead, jump, yeah,
Speaker 1: like Van Halen is playing Panama on the radio and
Speaker 1: your TV. Sure, the little angel kids smoking cigarettes and
Speaker 1: the very first ted talk happened. Yeah, isn't that crazy? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And it wasn't like Ray Kurzwile strutting the stage, just
Speaker 1: staccato releasing like different computer terms. It was a It
Speaker 1: was basically the ultimate dinner party. Is how it was
Speaker 1: put by a designer. Um, and his name is Richard
Speaker 1: Saul Warman. And I looked at Richard Saul Warman and um,
Speaker 1: he is indeed a designer and publisher and author of
Speaker 1: eight books, and uh, he decided that he wanted to
Speaker 1: put together something where anyone could come and listen to
Speaker 1: luminaries and basically a dinner dinner party like setting with
Speaker 1: the stage. Cool idea, like if you have a dinner
Speaker 1: party and you put a stage in the corner. There's
Speaker 1: your first TED conference, that's right. And what he said was,
Speaker 1: you know, I wanted to sort of have an anti conference.
Speaker 1: I don't want someone up here with the power point.
Speaker 1: I don't want someone up here lecturing for an hour. Uh.
Speaker 1: The idea was to make him just to get smart
Speaker 1: people together on stage and in the audience and have
Speaker 1: them be kind of snappy and quick. And apparently he
Speaker 1: would even like run you off the stage if you
Speaker 1: were going too long or if he became bored. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's so Richard sault Warman. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just kidding because one of his books is called
Speaker 1: I'm Bored. Right, it's just like right. At the very
Speaker 1: first HEAD conference there was a it's very cute and adorable.
Speaker 1: Now they featured a demonstration of the Sony Compact disc player. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but dude, that's four Yeah. Yeah, man, I'm sure that
Speaker 1: was like, what is this sorcery? One of the yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the first Um, you don't have to rewind. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a big innovation with Compact. It's so I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if you're aware of that. Sure, the eight
Speaker 1: track boy they tried, Yeah, what was the tex problem?
Speaker 1: It was just too clunky. Well, I mean the advantage
Speaker 1: of being able to skip ahead. Yeah, that's like four
Speaker 1: songs at a time. Though you couldn't skip like too
Speaker 1: song number two or three. It would jump in like
Speaker 1: groups of four. Oh, I don't recall that. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: a big design for at least minded. Maybe I had
Speaker 1: a crappy Richard Saul Warman would never have released something
Speaker 1: with that kind of a design flaw. The very first
Speaker 1: or one of the very first demonstrations of the Macintosh
Speaker 1: computer was at ted. That's huge. And uh, a little
Speaker 1: mathematician by the name of Ben Wha Mandel brought famous
Speaker 1: for his set. Yeah, he spoke there's a great Jonathan
Speaker 1: Colton song, yeah about him and his fractals. That's right,
Speaker 1: Mr Colton. Yeah. Uh who we've met, Oh yeah and
Speaker 1: hung out with. He's a good dude, Yeah he is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's been to our shows before, that's right. Uh. And
Speaker 1: so six years later he took a little break because
Speaker 1: it was it didn't make him any money. Um. In fact,
Speaker 1: I think it even cost him money. Yes, to think
Speaker 1: about this, you go to a conference where the compact
Speaker 1: disc is being shown about five six years before it's
Speaker 1: actual real release digital which he book Reader and ben
Speaker 1: Wa Mandel brought and no one wants to come. So
Speaker 1: financially it was a flop, but he'd put together a
Speaker 1: good conference, and like you said, he took six years
Speaker 1: or something like that. Then he tried it again and
Speaker 1: apparently this time it took. Yeah, that's when the eighteen
Speaker 1: minute format came into play, and um, it became like
Speaker 1: a really big ticket, like all of a sudden that
Speaker 1: he had made a name for himself in his conference.
Speaker 1: And these were in Monterey, California at first because that's
Speaker 1: where he lived, until two thousand nine, they moved to
Speaker 1: Long Beach, and then in two thousand and fourteen they
Speaker 1: moved ultimately to where they were bound to be in Vancouver.
Speaker 1: Yeah for now. Um, they they If you go on
Speaker 1: the TED site and look up their conference schedule or whatever,
Speaker 1: it says that they hold it annually on the West
Speaker 1: coast of North America. So they're not they're not locking
Speaker 1: themselves into anything further than the West coast of North America.
Speaker 1: What they're definitely saying is we're not coming York time zone,
Speaker 1: even though the staff is partially based in any or. Yeah,
Speaker 1: did you read that weight. But why article I sent you? Yep. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we'll talk about it some more later. So. Uh,
Speaker 1: Richards Saul Werman, being the the wander lustful designer that
Speaker 1: he is, decided that he made Ted is success and
Speaker 1: he was now bored with it, so he sold it.
Speaker 1: He was he was older, he was looking for a successor.
Speaker 1: Well he found one and Chris Anderson, the birdman of
Speaker 1: the Miami Heat. Wouldn't that be funny? It was weird
Speaker 1: fox hawk? Yeah. Uh no. Chris Anderson he ran a
Speaker 1: nonprofit or runs one called the Sapling Foundation, and he
Speaker 1: ponied up a cool four million pounds to buy Ted. Dude,
Speaker 1: he has made that back and then something, Oh I'm sure, well, no,
Speaker 1: it's a nonprofit, right, He's made some money off. Uh.
Speaker 1: So Anderson took it over. Um started running it as
Speaker 1: a nonprofit and kind of brought that sensibility to it.
Speaker 1: But he took the eighteen minute chunk idea, which is
Speaker 1: a huge cornerstone trait of Ted, you know, and ran
Speaker 1: with it. He did. Um. He he was the one
Speaker 1: who said we need to release these online. Um he uh.
Speaker 1: He curates still to this day. From what I understand,
Speaker 1: all of the speakers and the audience members. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit about like making a TED
Speaker 1: talk if you're ever invited to produce one, and attending
Speaker 1: the TED conference after this. So, Chuck, let's say that
Speaker 1: UM TED came to you and said, Hey, I'm Ted,
Speaker 1: and uh I want you to speak at me. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: So you just have signed up for a tremendous amount
Speaker 1: of work actually and a lot of stress and nervousness
Speaker 1: from what I understand of course. Uh. And actually we'll
Speaker 1: go ahead and tease this. Uh. Coming up at the
Speaker 1: end of this episode, we are going to interview the
Speaker 1: Great Roman Mars of the Great Invisible Podcasts and part
Speaker 1: of the original cast of a chorus line. That's right,
Speaker 1: and the Roman spoke at one of the legit TED conferences,
Speaker 1: not a TED X no Ted, but the real deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we should say so, like, um, there's you may
Speaker 1: have seen if you're familiar with TED, TED X TED Global,
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. UM and TED conferences are held
Speaker 1: once a year, and this is the one that is
Speaker 1: like the big mamajamma where like the guy who runs TED,
Speaker 1: Chris Anderson, picked you to to speak at it. It
Speaker 1: is UM and then there's ted X, and ted X
Speaker 1: are basically like um local versions of ted and they
Speaker 1: can either be huge like San Diego ted X is
Speaker 1: a bona fide legitimate conference. And then, um, I'm quite
Speaker 1: sure that there's Toledo ted X. Do you think I
Speaker 1: think so. I think we might have been invited to
Speaker 1: it once. No, I think so. I don't think we
Speaker 1: could make it. We were invited to a ted X
Speaker 1: somewhere is either in Ohio or Indiana. Well, our old
Speaker 1: friend Joey Ciara, formerly of Henry Clay People, now of
Speaker 1: bakers Um, he went to Harvard and was trying to
Speaker 1: get us to do a ted EX at Harvard at
Speaker 1: one point. I don't know if that's when you're thinking
Speaker 1: of No, okay, nope, this is in a Midwestern states.
Speaker 1: Harvard is not in the Midwest. But does Joey still
Speaker 1: at Harvard right though? No? No, no? He finished, Oh congratulations, Joey. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he congratuated and then decided he wanted to go to
Speaker 1: film school. So, dude, the guys all over the place,
Speaker 1: he's all over the place. Can I ask it's not
Speaker 1: the fakers, It's just fakers. He's just fakers. Where's the
Speaker 1: the was the great band? Okay, where is the the
Speaker 1: What do you mean? The Fakers? It's like Edie Brikell
Speaker 1: and New Bohemians that used to drive me crazy, the
Speaker 1: same thing. They're not the Indigo Girls. Indigo Girls doesn't
Speaker 1: strike me in the same way. And I get like Fakers,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be the Fakers. The makes it
Speaker 1: a band name, you know, but Fakers is it's a
Speaker 1: little more artistic. There's something different to it. But it's
Speaker 1: just when you leave off the in front of a
Speaker 1: band name, I notice that my antenna go up. It's like,
Speaker 1: what are you trying to pull? I think originally the
Speaker 1: Eagles were just eagles. I think that's correct. Or did
Speaker 1: they remain that and they were just mistakenly called the Eagles?
Speaker 1: I could see that, But I also see Glenn Fry
Speaker 1: and Joe Walsh and Don Henley not being ones to
Speaker 1: correct somebody. You know, they're a little more easy going
Speaker 1: than Eadie Brikell. Well, I think it's just Eagles. Still,
Speaker 1: The Indigo Girls sounds weird, like are you doing tomorrow? Oh?
Speaker 1: I'm going to see Indigo Girls for some reason. I
Speaker 1: know what you're saying, you know, But that's never stuck
Speaker 1: out to me with the with them back to TED. So, uh,
Speaker 1: Roman can count himself among some very distinguished people like
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton and Bono and Richard Dawkins and Jane Goodall
Speaker 1: and Al Gore had They've had lots of very famous
Speaker 1: people speak at TED conferences. Ted. Yes, So that's what
Speaker 1: we were saying. We're talking about TED X to Global
Speaker 1: the difference, and and Romans spoke at TED big big um.
Speaker 1: So if you are asked to speak at TED, UM,
Speaker 1: and you do agree, you are you're basically here's the
Speaker 1: thing I didn't know about TED that I learned from
Speaker 1: researching this. You are creating an eighteen minute presentation that
Speaker 1: when you give this speech like you're speaking at verbatim
Speaker 1: word for word. Yeah, it's a performance, it is, um
Speaker 1: and so like this thing is not like I've got
Speaker 1: an eighteen minute speech I know pretty well. Like it's
Speaker 1: not for the way, Yeah, for the most part, Um,
Speaker 1: it is someone who is an expert in their field.
Speaker 1: Let's say robotics for example, UM, And a robotics expert
Speaker 1: is not necessarily a gifted public speaker. In fact, they
Speaker 1: probably are not. So probably so part of the TED
Speaker 1: process is to basically be matriculated and inculcated into this
Speaker 1: Ted atmosphere where you are coached and um and prompted
Speaker 1: and harangued and written and maybe spanked down the bottom
Speaker 1: when you don't deliver a script down time. That kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, it's very like the reason if you've
Speaker 1: seen a bunch of Ted talks, the reason they all
Speaker 1: seem the same is because of that reason they want
Speaker 1: them to feel similar. But yeah, it's a format of
Speaker 1: a brand, yeah, which is a Roman kind of but
Speaker 1: convention a little bit. And so we'll talk to him
Speaker 1: about that. Can't wait. Yeah, it's gonna be great. Um.
Speaker 1: But so what happens is and this is it surprised me. Um.
Speaker 1: Six to nine months before they give the talk, a
Speaker 1: speaker will start working with the staff and producers and
Speaker 1: editors to craft your story along with you, right, which
Speaker 1: is really interesting. I had no idea. Yeah, Um, I
Speaker 1: brought up wait but why earlier? Tim Urban, the guy
Speaker 1: who I believe runs that site, um, and it's a
Speaker 1: pretty pretty interesting site. He's got some good stuff on there. Um.
Speaker 1: But he did a Ted talk, the big one in Vancouver,
Speaker 1: I guess last year or in two fourteen maybe. Um.
Speaker 1: And he talked about how he kept putting off, you know,
Speaker 1: coming up with an idea even let alone a script,
Speaker 1: and he finally had like a flash of inspiration and
Speaker 1: decided procrastination would be a great one to do. Yeah
Speaker 1: and he um he if you read this is called
Speaker 1: doing a TED talk, calling the full story. He goes
Speaker 1: into great details. He is a comic stret of like
Speaker 1: and you really feel it with him where you're starting
Speaker 1: to get anxious because you when when he showed up
Speaker 1: for coaching a month or so out, Um, he showed
Speaker 1: up to TED offices in New York and he did
Speaker 1: his his his talk for the first time in front
Speaker 1: of TED staffers. Um. They it apparently wasn't very well received.
Speaker 1: That's got to be the worst feeling in the world. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And apparently he up until the um the day he
Speaker 1: gave it, he was rehearsing constantly. Do you remember the
Speaker 1: time we did them the thing at the in the
Speaker 1: Inventor's Hall of Fame. It was the one time we
Speaker 1: did a script and there was a script where like
Speaker 1: I had lines and you had lines that responded to
Speaker 1: my lines, and there's no winging this and you and
Speaker 1: I just pounded it into our heads, did it over
Speaker 1: and over and over again, and then we we finished
Speaker 1: rehearsing him. Right when we finished rehearsing that last time,
Speaker 1: we walked right on the stage and did it. There
Speaker 1: was no down time or anything like that. It was
Speaker 1: like we we worked out our brain muscles, but we
Speaker 1: were hanging on by our fingernails. We weren't asked back
Speaker 1: if I remember, it's it's not h It's not the
Speaker 1: way we prefer to work. Because if you've seen us live,
Speaker 1: you know we have our notes, but we do you
Speaker 1: like we do in the studio, and we we it's
Speaker 1: a general outline, but we are very much more comfortable
Speaker 1: speaking in our own voice. Right, So this is this
Speaker 1: is what Ted. It's not like that. It's like we
Speaker 1: you have a script and you know it line by line.
Speaker 1: And they apparently have a question a couple of questions
Speaker 1: like measuring sticks for whether you actually have something memorize.
Speaker 1: Did you did you catch those in the way up
Speaker 1: wide posts? Yeah? In fact, he calls it um. There's
Speaker 1: different levels of memorization. He goes over, and the one
Speaker 1: that you need to get to for Ted is called
Speaker 1: he calls happy birthday. Yeah, like, when you know that
Speaker 1: song so well, you can like to do your taxes
Speaker 1: and sing it out. Wou So he's and this just
Speaker 1: sends like I got nervous just reading this. Uh. He said.
Speaker 1: If you record yourself saying the talk and play it
Speaker 1: back at double speed, can you say it out loud
Speaker 1: while it's playing and stay ahead of the recording? That
Speaker 1: just gives me anxiety. And number two, can you recite
Speaker 1: the talk with no problem while simultaneously doing an unrelated
Speaker 1: task that requires attention, like following a recipe and measuring
Speaker 1: out ingredients into a bowl. Yeah, I mean imagine that's
Speaker 1: a great way to practice. Know and you have something cold?
Speaker 1: But um boy, uh, I just don't even bother asking
Speaker 1: us Ted, right, And I mean like that's that's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, fear of public speaking is an awful thing,
Speaker 1: and then it's it's exponentially amplified when you have a
Speaker 1: script that you have to remember a word for word
Speaker 1: and line for line. And that's part of TED. And again,
Speaker 1: like you said, I don't think they're doing this just
Speaker 1: to be mean. They're doing it because they have a
Speaker 1: brand in a format and like you need to stick
Speaker 1: to the format when you're doing the the talk, right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What I'm curious about and I couldn't find this anywhere
Speaker 1: they probably don't like to talk about it is I
Speaker 1: wonder if or how often they bail on people and
Speaker 1: are just like you knows, from what I understand, uh,
Speaker 1: the TED people would not be afraid to do that. Really.
Speaker 1: I didn't know if they did that or they took
Speaker 1: the other approach, which is like, no, well, we're gonna
Speaker 1: keep banging this out with you until you got it.
Speaker 1: Probably both, Yeah, I mean probably, but I'm sure they
Speaker 1: give their full support and like really try to work
Speaker 1: with you. But you know, I'm sure people have turned
Speaker 1: in ideas and they're just like that's actually not a
Speaker 1: good idea, and the person wants to stick with it
Speaker 1: and they're like, Okay, we're gonna go with somebody else
Speaker 1: or yeah. Well there's a couple of hallmarks of a
Speaker 1: good TED talk that they work with you on, um,
Speaker 1: that you'll notice, uh. And one is that they want
Speaker 1: to frame your story as a personal journey of discovery.
Speaker 1: This I find is a little narrow, uh. And a
Speaker 1: talk should feel like a quote little miracle end quote
Speaker 1: and change your audience's perspective on the world. Which that's
Speaker 1: that's the problem that I have with it, Like not
Speaker 1: everything is a little miracle, and I don't think you
Speaker 1: should force it into a little miracle box. Like something
Speaker 1: can be interesting just on its face. Yeah, but if
Speaker 1: you know, then start your own conference. Like you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like that's their thing right now, I
Speaker 1: get it. That's why I don't like critics. Well, we'll
Speaker 1: get to the criticism and I'll go off then. But
Speaker 1: they wanted to be really focused on like one specific thing.
Speaker 1: Obviously in eighteen minutes. You can't be too rambly, which
Speaker 1: is another reason why they would never ask us because
Speaker 1: we'd start talking about Cohen Brothers movies. May be like
Speaker 1: they'd get the hook out. Have you seen Hail Caesar yet? No?
Speaker 1: Which is weird it is I'm usually like right in
Speaker 1: that theater on the first week. I guess it's an
Speaker 1: allegory for Christ maybe, Oh really, I think so interesting. Uh,
Speaker 1: some of the other things that they will work with you.
Speaker 1: You're not gonna use a teleprompter, like we said, it's
Speaker 1: got to be memorized. Yeah, we don't use teleprompters even
Speaker 1: when we're shooting videos. Do you use teleprompters? I do
Speaker 1: for the what the stuff? I find it's too difficult
Speaker 1: and distracting. I don't have enough confidence in my just
Speaker 1: reading cold abilities. Love it. Sure, I can read all
Speaker 1: day long. Uh they they you can't use note cards
Speaker 1: if you want to uh to do that. Yeah, you're
Speaker 1: not a robot. No, you might be a robot scientist,
Speaker 1: but you're not a robot. Right. Yeah. They want you
Speaker 1: to make eye contact and be accessible, and they recommend
Speaker 1: picking out some friendly faces in the audience. That's a
Speaker 1: that's big and these actually do translate to just about
Speaker 1: any public speaking gig. Yeah. And what I think is
Speaker 1: funny is having done shows with you, is you tend
Speaker 1: to pick out the least friendly face and afterwards you're like, well,
Speaker 1: is that guy on the second row he just kept
Speaker 1: yawning and he had his arm scrolls look or something. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so funny. It's easy to like obsess, like that
Speaker 1: person we've lost. Um yeah, it's that is good advice
Speaker 1: to find some friendly people. You want to find more
Speaker 1: than just like three. You definitely want to do like six, seven, eight,
Speaker 1: scattered all around the audience so that you're looking around,
Speaker 1: and you've got your people that you're looking at, and
Speaker 1: you know they're thrilled and delighted that you're talking right
Speaker 1: to them for a second. But then they can also
Speaker 1: get very uncomfortable if you're talking to them for most
Speaker 1: of the show, So you want to kind of spread
Speaker 1: that thing around. And then also it doesn't hurt to
Speaker 1: just kind of look in the air to while you're talking,
Speaker 1: you know, or close your eyes and pretend you're not
Speaker 1: there on stage speaking in front of people. We don't.
Speaker 1: You don't really get that nervous anymore. I know what
Speaker 1: it depends. I have remember in uh in New York
Speaker 1: at town Hall, I almost I almost had to tell
Speaker 1: you that you need to push me on stage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some are a little bit more nervy than others, but
Speaker 1: that goes away pretty quick quickly because our audiences and
Speaker 1: our listeners are super supportive, Like you can't ask for
Speaker 1: a better room to walk into. Well, Plus we don't
Speaker 1: have to win the crowd over. There's probably five people
Speaker 1: who don't listen to stuff you should know at any
Speaker 1: one of our shows. It's not like being a stand
Speaker 1: up comedian. No one knows you, especially if you're an
Speaker 1: opener and you have to win the crowd over. That
Speaker 1: sounds like a living nightmare to me. Yeah, that's well,
Speaker 1: I've never tried to stand up one of many reasons. Um.
Speaker 1: And then they also say to you know, not be
Speaker 1: too uh active, like use your hands and stuff. But
Speaker 1: you want to be fairly still. Yeah, you don't want
Speaker 1: to be running all over the stage. Remember when we
Speaker 1: were on Solidade O'Brien one morning and my knee was
Speaker 1: just going like five and they did like a full
Speaker 1: shot of us for the whole interview. Not good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was weird because it was also like six am.
Speaker 1: It was you probably had like six cups coffee. I
Speaker 1: might as well just stay up. Oh. One thing they
Speaker 1: point out this article I thought was interesting is that
Speaker 1: and maybe this answer is my question about working with people. Um.
Speaker 1: One of the most popular Ted's ever was from Susan Kane.
Speaker 1: Did you see that one? Yeah, it's great. She wrote
Speaker 1: a book called Quiet, The Power of Introverts in a
Speaker 1: World that can't stop talking. So she is a self
Speaker 1: described very famous introvert, and he was able to do it.
Speaker 1: So yeah, hers is very endearing and it kind of
Speaker 1: gives you the idea that um, and this was This
Speaker 1: was also mentioned by Tim urban on Wait but why
Speaker 1: that like those people are they want you to succeed.
Speaker 1: They're not there to be like I can't wait for
Speaker 1: you to fail. Um. There. So there's a very encouraging
Speaker 1: crowd at her her Ted talk. That's very sweet And
Speaker 1: it was I saw that because our old friend Bill
Speaker 1: Bill Gates. It was on his list of ten favorite
Speaker 1: Ted Talks. And I went and watched it before we
Speaker 1: interviewed him because you know or check this out introverts
Speaker 1: l O L and I was like, sent from my iPhone,
Speaker 1: Oh busted. Um. Actually, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were
Speaker 1: very good friends. They were healthy competition. Well. In fact,
Speaker 1: Bill Gates could arm wrestle Steve Jobs under the table
Speaker 1: and it drove Steve Jobs nuts. Did you know Bill
Speaker 1: Gates can jump over chairs though it was like one
Speaker 1: of his things that he's known for. Did you know that? Well?
Speaker 1: I think he told me. Okay, I didn't know until
Speaker 1: you told me he still does it once in a while. Wow,
Speaker 1: we should have him do that? And yeah, I thought
Speaker 1: that might have been a bad idea. Uh So, I
Speaker 1: guess we should talk a little bit about the criticisms
Speaker 1: since we teased it. Yeah, because there's plenty of it.
Speaker 1: It's a it's basically a sporting pastime to to take
Speaker 1: down Ted. I just don't get it. These things are
Speaker 1: so enjoyable to read to me. Yeah, Like, um, Frank
Speaker 1: rich Rot one called Ted Talks are lying to you.
Speaker 1: And it was originally in Harper's, which I think is
Speaker 1: where I read it a few years ago, and it's
Speaker 1: reprinted on Salon now because Harper's is behind a paywall,
Speaker 1: and um, it's just beautiful. It's not just about Ted Talks.
Speaker 1: It's about this whole idea of thing like Ted basically
Speaker 1: the commoditization of creativity, Um, just being uncreative, recycling of
Speaker 1: established tropes and stuff. What did he called it? Uh?
Speaker 1: Was that him or Benjamin Bratton? Oh, it might have
Speaker 1: been Bratton. It called it a megachurch infottainment for middle
Speaker 1: brow classes, for middle brown masses. Right, okay, yeah, Well
Speaker 1: the big the big criticisa, Yes they are, Like, there
Speaker 1: are plenty of awesome Ted talks. Um. I don't think
Speaker 1: anyone disputes that. I think a lot of people who
Speaker 1: criticized Ted believe that there's this unspoken sentiment that Ted
Speaker 1: is changing the world, and the critics point to Ted's
Speaker 1: really not changing the world at all. It's basically saying,
Speaker 1: here's this really cool ge whiz idea that you two
Speaker 1: can understand, and um, go tell your friends about it
Speaker 1: and let the whole idea die there, And that that's
Speaker 1: actually taking legitimate, great ideas from this roboticist and then
Speaker 1: just spreading it out to the masses and fizzling out
Speaker 1: rather than going the opposite way. Now, Ted, on the
Speaker 1: other hand, is like, are you crazy. If you go
Speaker 1: to our conferences, most of the attendees are extraordinarily rich
Speaker 1: philanthropists or investors or entrepreneurs who might take that roboticists
Speaker 1: idea and actually manufacture it. But I think for the
Speaker 1: most part, if you did tip for tat um, it
Speaker 1: compared things that panned out from a Ted talk, the
Speaker 1: things that just fizzled out or haven't haven't panned out yet.
Speaker 1: They haven't panned out yet far and away exceeds the
Speaker 1: ones that have. Yeah, I got no problem with that.
Speaker 1: I think TED talks and I think this is their
Speaker 1: mission is. I think it's a conversation starter and should
Speaker 1: not be looked at as anything more than that. Is,
Speaker 1: let me break down something you may not have heard of, uh,
Speaker 1: and try to inspire you in eighteen minutes and start
Speaker 1: a conversation. Um. I don't think their mission should be
Speaker 1: anything but that, so I agreed. Um. The The other
Speaker 1: big criticism is that it's an extremely elitist organization and
Speaker 1: that it's it's not just elitist. TED itself is not
Speaker 1: just elitist, but the people who really enjoy and get
Speaker 1: into TED are also extremely elitist without even being aware
Speaker 1: of it. Basically like, if you read the weight but
Speaker 1: why post um Tim is talking about going to TED,
Speaker 1: And when you go to TED, the whole, the whole
Speaker 1: thing is you're one speaker on stage and the whole
Speaker 1: conference is there. There's not multiple speaker speaking at once.
Speaker 1: There's um like seventies speakers over the course of this week,
Speaker 1: and so everybody's there for you. But the people who
Speaker 1: aren't in the auditorium might be out on some artificial
Speaker 1: turf under a fake tree watching it on TV, or
Speaker 1: in a giant ball pit watching it on TV. And
Speaker 1: it's like this is the antithesis of a hard life.
Speaker 1: Even though a lot of the TED ideas are talking
Speaker 1: about how to solve problems that have hard lives, so
Speaker 1: it's like very much ensconced and like to get to TED.
Speaker 1: You pay a minimum of eight dollars uh two as
Speaker 1: an attendee. Yes, well it's it's unless it's changed. That
Speaker 1: was I thought it was on a subscription model. Now,
Speaker 1: so I saw six thousand dollar a year you become
Speaker 1: a member essentially, Okay, I didn't see that. I saw
Speaker 1: to attend it was undred or you could double that
Speaker 1: and be considered a donor, which I'm sure comes with
Speaker 1: more perks or whatever. Um. But if you take the
Speaker 1: if you take the meme between those two, the two
Speaker 1: prices you would pay for that week long conference and
Speaker 1: you have to be invited to we should point out, well,
Speaker 1: that's that's another thing. You have to pay at least
Speaker 1: eight dollars and apply on top of that. And of
Speaker 1: course they're not going to charge you if if you
Speaker 1: don't make the cut, but you have to apply and pay.
Speaker 1: And in the application it's it's like we want to
Speaker 1: know the real you, so sit down with a coffee
Speaker 1: and really think about who you are in explaining this
Speaker 1: to us. In the application, it says that on the
Speaker 1: tips for applying some fair trade coffee too. Probably, I'm
Speaker 1: quite sure. I think that's just insinuated day. Um. But
Speaker 1: if you take the mean of D and seventeen thousand, uh,
Speaker 1: and you multiply that by the four hundred attendees at
Speaker 1: a TED conference, the TED conference takes in about seventeen
Speaker 1: seventeen million, eight hundred fifty grand in a week. They
Speaker 1: don't pay their speakers. They put them up in hotels
Speaker 1: with roommates, and um there there if I saw this
Speaker 1: thing on Joe Rogan, Eddie huang Um was on. He's
Speaker 1: like a chef and he did a TED talk and
Speaker 1: he had this nightmare story about his TED experience. Um.
Speaker 1: So they're raking in a bunch of money. And the
Speaker 1: big thing that they put out is a one million
Speaker 1: dollar TED Prize every year, which Bono got one year
Speaker 1: and Jamie Oliver. So there's a lot of Ted's got
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to be criticized. At the end
Speaker 1: of the day, I agree with you. The talks in
Speaker 1: and of themselves, I have no problem with. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's a certain demographic that just doesn't want to
Speaker 1: hear Bono talk about starvation or like he he needs
Speaker 1: an extra million dollars for his foundation. You know, like
Speaker 1: that's who that million went to that year. I think
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton won one year too. Yeah, and Jamie Oliver again,
Speaker 1: like these guys could just cough up a million dollars
Speaker 1: into their own foundations. So I would strongly recommend go
Speaker 1: read the weight. But why doing a Ted talk post?
Speaker 1: Um read, Uh, we we have to talk about Ted,
Speaker 1: which is a Benjamin Bratton Ted talk, which that's that's
Speaker 1: cohones if you ask me. He did a Ted takedown
Speaker 1: at Ted x San Diego, which again is a big one.
Speaker 1: And then um read Ted talks are lying to you?
Speaker 1: Which is that Frank rich one that's about way more
Speaker 1: than Ted Talks. Yeah. I think part of my defense
Speaker 1: here is tied to our own show. And uh, like
Speaker 1: we got an email that we're not even gonna read,
Speaker 1: but we got an email a couple of weeks ago
Speaker 1: that you know, and we get them from time to
Speaker 1: time where you you guys should do this, this and this,
Speaker 1: this is where your show stinks and it should be this,
Speaker 1: And I'm always like, go start your show then, like
Speaker 1: this is what we do and we're not claiming to
Speaker 1: do anything else, right, Yeah, And there's a there's definitely
Speaker 1: a difference between saying, hey, I think you guys should
Speaker 1: have guests on more or whatever constructive criticism. But you know,
Speaker 1: if somebody comes along and just doesn't drive by jerk move,
Speaker 1: which I want to see Erin Cooper make a photoshop
Speaker 1: of that, um, that doesn't help. So that's one of
Speaker 1: the things why I think the takedowns are enjoyable to
Speaker 1: read because they make real sense in a lot of ways.
Speaker 1: And also go read on smart It was a Gawker
Speaker 1: post from a couple of years ago, and it's very lengthy,
Speaker 1: but it really kind of lays the foundation that's like
Speaker 1: the antithesis of the ted talk sentiment. You know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I feel it's with social media. I feel like people
Speaker 1: are just sitting and wait to take something down, and
Speaker 1: I'm just tired of it. I have takedown fatigue. I
Speaker 1: know what you mean, but I I don't have takedown
Speaker 1: fatigue for thoughtful, sensible, reasonable takedowns. Agreed um. But I
Speaker 1: think when the takedown is on something, it's not like
Speaker 1: they're exploiting anybody or you know, it's not like I
Speaker 1: mean takedown child labor, not like a ted Talk. It's
Speaker 1: my opinion. Uh, coming up after this break we are
Speaker 1: going to and now we've got a lot of interesting
Speaker 1: stuff to talk about with Roman Mars of Invisible right
Speaker 1: after this. All right, well we are back with a
Speaker 1: rare interview, although we've been doing it more and more.
Speaker 1: We had Bill Gates on, and now we have the
Speaker 1: great Roman Mars of the wonderful, awesome Invisible podcast and
Speaker 1: Radio Topia podcast Network. Yeah, the guy is a podcast magnate.
Speaker 1: Hi Roman, Hey guys, how's it going great? How are
Speaker 1: you sir? I'm excellent, Thank you, thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm so glad to be in the company of
Speaker 1: Bill Gates and yourselves. Well, you know, I wouldn't go
Speaker 1: that far, but uh so we did a podcast on
Speaker 1: Ted talks Um that we already recorded, and so you
Speaker 1: obviously came to mind because you did your very own
Speaker 1: Ted Talk and not a Ted X or a Ted
Speaker 1: triple X or whatever versions have. Yeah, you did the
Speaker 1: real deal. Yeah, it was something else. It was really fun.
Speaker 1: I highly recommend you do it if you get asked.
Speaker 1: And that was like one one year ago, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was almost exactly a year ago. And Roman, what
Speaker 1: was your Ted talk? On? My Ted talk was about
Speaker 1: the design of flags? How did you end up on that? Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: you know a lot of times when you're asked to
Speaker 1: a TED Talk, you're you know, a scientist or a
Speaker 1: social scientist or philosopher, who is really you know, when
Speaker 1: you're asked to a TED Talk, you know exactly what
Speaker 1: Ted talk you're goin to give, because it's your life's work.
Speaker 1: Whereas I'm a journalist, I mean I tell stories. So
Speaker 1: when they said do a design story, I had a
Speaker 1: couple of hundred because I do the radio show about it,
Speaker 1: and so I just had to pick one that I
Speaker 1: was most passionate about. And I tried lots of different
Speaker 1: ideas and I had this world grand unified theory of
Speaker 1: design that I was going to present at some point,
Speaker 1: and I tried it out in different life settings and
Speaker 1: it just wasn't working. And I called him up and
Speaker 1: I said, I just don't know. I have this one.
Speaker 1: I think it's going okay, but I kind of want
Speaker 1: to talk about flags. And they said me, I can
Speaker 1: tell by the sound of your voice you should do
Speaker 1: the flag one because you sound excited about it. So
Speaker 1: I did and it was it was really fun. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I um, I've seen it a couple of times, and
Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite ones. And um, partially because
Speaker 1: of your passion, but partially because like you can, you
Speaker 1: can literally since you winning over that audience as you
Speaker 1: watch it, because they were a little stiff at first,
Speaker 1: and you could like as a as a viewer, like
Speaker 1: I'm watching it and nervous for you at first because
Speaker 1: you're a buddy, and then like you feel already audience
Speaker 1: like literally warming up to you, and then before you
Speaker 1: know it, they're like everyone's laughing at you. And it
Speaker 1: ended up being one of the one of the funnier,
Speaker 1: more amusing Ted talks I've seen. Well, thank you so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I felt that too, ifect. In fact, I felt that
Speaker 1: the whole week because I gave my talk on a Thursday,
Speaker 1: and so I was there from you know, Saturday to Thursday,
Speaker 1: and then the last day it's a Friday, and so
Speaker 1: all week when you when they see that you're a speaker,
Speaker 1: you can see it on your badge. The first thing
Speaker 1: people ask you was what your talk is about? And
Speaker 1: I was just a little shy about talking about it
Speaker 1: because I know it's a little topic when people. I mean,
Speaker 1: the guy the next day, you know, he won a
Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize for freeing eighty thousand child slaves. You know,
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm gonna give my flag talk, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, so oh my god. And so I was
Speaker 1: really sheepish about it. But um, one of the things
Speaker 1: I loved and my my sense of accomplishment was really um.
Speaker 1: I was just I was kind of proud that it
Speaker 1: was sort of a small topic that I was passionate
Speaker 1: about and it still won them over and I knew
Speaker 1: it would. It was. It was fun to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for those of you who haven't seen it, first of all,
Speaker 1: watch it because it's as all Ted talks, it's under
Speaker 1: twenty minutes, and it's um it's about the design. Um
Speaker 1: about flag design, but even more specifically city flags of
Speaker 1: United States kind of all around the world. But you
Speaker 1: you really uh, I mean, you did a great job
Speaker 1: for non flag enthusiast. I mean the first thing I
Speaker 1: did was look up the Atlanta flag afterward, and of
Speaker 1: course ours is one of those with the state seal.
Speaker 1: Uh you have a phoenix on it. It does have
Speaker 1: a phoenix. Uh, yeah, I think it. I think there's
Speaker 1: a phoenix, but it's contained within the state seal, which
Speaker 1: Roman says is just bad design. Yeah. I mean. The
Speaker 1: funny thing about the Atlanta flag, if you will allow
Speaker 1: me to digress, is uh, that is that it also
Speaker 1: has a phoenix, you know, rising from flame, just like
Speaker 1: the San Francisco flag does. Um. But actually I think
Speaker 1: it's designed a little a lot better. So if one
Speaker 1: of us had to keep it, I would vote for
Speaker 1: Atlanta keeping it the way it is, whereas I think
Speaker 1: that San Francisco is an abomination. But if I think
Speaker 1: we both kind of need to step aside for you know,
Speaker 1: the city of Phoenix, which has a phoenix on its
Speaker 1: flag too, Okay, good so um, but I think Atlanta,
Speaker 1: you know, like as much as it is, it's still
Speaker 1: a cell. I think it's I think it's all right.
Speaker 1: I thought San Francisco's was tie died it would be
Speaker 1: more appropriate. I think. So were you were you nervous
Speaker 1: while you were preparing for this, like we oh, this
Speaker 1: is this is part of a larger episode on Ted Talks,
Speaker 1: And one of the things we ran across is that
Speaker 1: it's a very long, nerve wracking process. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 1: if it's your typical typically you're you're contacted months and
Speaker 1: months ahead of time, so I was contacted in August
Speaker 1: of the year before and performed it in March. So
Speaker 1: for a couple of months you're just trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what you're gonna do, and you know, trying to
Speaker 1: trying to do your best to write something early so
Speaker 1: that they have something to react against and UM, the
Speaker 1: whole process is really nerve wracking. Even even people who
Speaker 1: are really seasoned presenters UM run against this. They it's
Speaker 1: so prizing how the venue really really makes you nervous.
Speaker 1: The one thing you probably can't see is that it's
Speaker 1: the most well lit auditorium you've ever been in. So
Speaker 1: one of the things that makes performing in front a
Speaker 1: lot of people really uh easy is you have those
Speaker 1: lights you know, in your eyes and you can't really
Speaker 1: see anybody, and you're kind of just performing to yourself. Well,
Speaker 1: here you can see every face, and not only can
Speaker 1: you see every face, but you can see faces like
Speaker 1: Bill Gates and Al Gore and it's super nerve wracking. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've met the people you UM. One of the things, too,
Speaker 1: Roman that that was different about yours was that you
Speaker 1: defied convention by sitting down at your table and doing UM.
Speaker 1: Having audio and visual aids and you you make a
Speaker 1: crack about it at the beginning, like who was this
Speaker 1: guy who can sit down? He said, well, this is radio.
Speaker 1: Did you have a hard time talking them into that approach?
Speaker 1: Not at all. That was something that I had psyched
Speaker 1: myself out. And a lot of people do psych themselves
Speaker 1: out when they deal with TED because it's so prestigious
Speaker 1: and and so cool to be a part of it.
Speaker 1: But um, just like the flag talk itself, where I was,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to do a little small thing
Speaker 1: and not the big, grand TED talk. I had said, Well,
Speaker 1: by the way, I I kind of do these live
Speaker 1: presentations where I present it like a podcast where I
Speaker 1: have sound clips and interview clips and music clips and
Speaker 1: I sit down and it's kind of like being an
Speaker 1: information DJ. And they were so excited about that that
Speaker 1: I don't know why I didn't talk to him about
Speaker 1: it sooner. It was kind of, you know, it was
Speaker 1: my fault in a way. So they they really want
Speaker 1: you to be yourself. They're trying to get you to
Speaker 1: be yourself if you've never interesting. Yeah, so so like
Speaker 1: you know, you see all the different things that they do,
Speaker 1: and there's like there's a there is a lot of
Speaker 1: qualities they're shared across ted talks, and so you think
Speaker 1: that they sort of insist on that. But what they
Speaker 1: know how to do is if you're like a plant
Speaker 1: biologist and you've never given a talk before, they know
Speaker 1: how to get you to give a good talk. But
Speaker 1: if you've presented in lots of different ways before, you know,
Speaker 1: they're totally happy to let you defy convention. They want
Speaker 1: you to defy convention. That See, that surprises me because
Speaker 1: we we figured uh, and I understood why you were
Speaker 1: nervous that they were really strict about what is tad
Speaker 1: and what isn't. Yeah, they don't. They want to be,
Speaker 1: you know, a place of good ideas and understanding, and
Speaker 1: they have a certain way that they know that they
Speaker 1: can make anyone get there in a way using their methods,
Speaker 1: and they're really smart about that. But if you have
Speaker 1: your own way and as long as the result is
Speaker 1: good and they have confidence in that and you have
Speaker 1: confidence in yourself, they're really happy for you to do
Speaker 1: it your own way. And they want to be surprised too.
Speaker 1: There they're um, they're they're really delightful. But again, my
Speaker 1: big problem was I had psyched myself out in some
Speaker 1: way to think. I was like, God, if I asked
Speaker 1: them for the table and the sound stuff, They're going
Speaker 1: to be annoyed at me. And I'm just a podcaster
Speaker 1: and what am I doing here? And so and so
Speaker 1: like so I was just really um. But as soon
Speaker 1: as I brought it up, they were super happy to
Speaker 1: do it. And and and I didn't want to be
Speaker 1: any trouble and stuff, and you know, and I would
Speaker 1: talk to the the the the you know, the different
Speaker 1: set people and sound people and you know, the stage
Speaker 1: manager of the you know, of the thing has like
Speaker 1: done the Academy Awards and and and they're like, you're
Speaker 1: don't worry, we can handle You're sitting at a table,
Speaker 1: you know. But like it's not it's not a big deal,
Speaker 1: you know. You know we you know, they just did
Speaker 1: Sounded Music Live last week, you know, so so it's
Speaker 1: it's not you know, it was just it was that
Speaker 1: was the weird part was getting over and once you
Speaker 1: sort of like inside the fold, you realize that they're
Speaker 1: all on the team with you, trying to make you
Speaker 1: be the best you can be. So Roman one of
Speaker 1: the things we ran across some research was there's a
Speaker 1: definite undercurrent in popular culture that people love doing Ted takedowns.
Speaker 1: They love writing articles about how snooty TED is and
Speaker 1: how elitist it is, and um, what was your experience
Speaker 1: with that, Like, did you see what those people are
Speaker 1: talking about and they just have it wrong? Or did
Speaker 1: you just did you not really encounter that? Because it
Speaker 1: sounds like your your experience is altogether positive. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: my my seriance was altogether positive. I must admit that
Speaker 1: before I was involved in it, I don't know if
Speaker 1: I was really part of TED, you know, takedown, I
Speaker 1: didn't have that sentiment. But I was skeptical because a
Speaker 1: lot of it is it reeks of certain types of solutionism,
Speaker 1: where you know, one you know, technical fix or design
Speaker 1: fix will save the world in some way that is
Speaker 1: believable for eighteen minutes, but then you know, you get
Speaker 1: out in the real world and it seems it just
Speaker 1: seems hokey and um and not applicable to actual, real
Speaker 1: lives and real people. And so I was kind of
Speaker 1: I mean, I I skeptical in that way too, but
Speaker 1: when I and it, and it's also just like I'm
Speaker 1: not of the world where you spend to go to
Speaker 1: a conference that is not my world for sure. So
Speaker 1: I went with a little bit of that, like thinking
Speaker 1: about that a lot when I was there, And what
Speaker 1: I left with was this real joy of being around
Speaker 1: two thousand people who were really trying something and really
Speaker 1: wanted to think optimistically about the world and wanted to
Speaker 1: learn and more curious. And I just felt, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I was sold on it. In so many ways it was.
Speaker 1: And there was a very little hierarchy when you're there,
Speaker 1: which is pretty interesting. Um, You'll be standing in line,
Speaker 1: um for something, and it'll be some you know, CEO
Speaker 1: billionaire and uh, and they want to engage with you
Speaker 1: in lots of ways. You still, I mean, it's still
Speaker 1: like normal people don't go to TED in a way
Speaker 1: like you don't. You don't have a lot of cause
Speaker 1: to spend that type of money. Um so and and
Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that can't go unless you know,
Speaker 1: they asked me to go. But um, in general, I
Speaker 1: would say that I'm happy that those folks are engaged
Speaker 1: and trying to think about the world in lots of
Speaker 1: different ways and trying to be inspired, and um, you know,
Speaker 1: if we don't live up to it, all the time
Speaker 1: after we leave um at least there's some effort in
Speaker 1: the right direction. So I liked it. Yeah. I liked
Speaker 1: how you finish your episode, in particular because it was
Speaker 1: about the design of city flag. Then you didn't say like,
Speaker 1: this will change the world if you redesign your flag,
Speaker 1: but you did say, you know, it can make a
Speaker 1: difference if the city has a great flag behind them
Speaker 1: to rally around, and it can be a unifying thing.
Speaker 1: And I just, uh, I don't know. I appreciated that
Speaker 1: sentiment at the end for sure. Yeah. And and they're
Speaker 1: interested in that. They want people to take some action
Speaker 1: and do something, and that's something that they're really into.
Speaker 1: And there's like this year I went to something where
Speaker 1: somebody was putting together a museum of of lynching actually
Speaker 1: like a civil rights museum about the history of lynching
Speaker 1: in the United States. And I don't know if this
Speaker 1: thing had been released yet, but they're raising money for it.
Speaker 1: And so as soon as the thing was over, everyone
Speaker 1: there was like a Okay, we're gonna go upstairs and
Speaker 1: we go raise money for this. And they raised a
Speaker 1: lot of money for it that day. And it was
Speaker 1: just something. It was like something to watch the power
Speaker 1: of that room to get stuff done was was really
Speaker 1: incredible and so you know, so I you know, I
Speaker 1: try not to overdue mine to the importance of it.
Speaker 1: I was really cognizant of how small it was in
Speaker 1: a certain way, but um, but I like people to
Speaker 1: think about it in a in a bigger way that
Speaker 1: well designed things and civic pride and having some pride
Speaker 1: is a big part of how we get things done,
Speaker 1: and so you know, it leaves people with a little
Speaker 1: bit to think about, but also just just to be entertained.
Speaker 1: That was my main goal. Cool was there? Um? I mean,
Speaker 1: is there like an after party? Do you get feedback
Speaker 1: from people afterwards and audience? Yeah, I mean it's it's great.
Speaker 1: Ted is much better after you're done before you start,
Speaker 1: and because I had all week of just being super
Speaker 1: nervous and thinking, got into some torp with the flag
Speaker 1: talk and then then you're done and people kind of
Speaker 1: know what you're about and uh, and they want to
Speaker 1: talk to you. And it's fun because you're like an
Speaker 1: expert of that thing, and so it's really it's really
Speaker 1: enjoyable that give you. We had lots of good feedback,
Speaker 1: lots of um and stuff, And I think that people
Speaker 1: liked the format change and I finally got a sense
Speaker 1: of my role in the in the week, you know,
Speaker 1: along with the really important kind of heavy hitters, like
Speaker 1: they do like to have lighter and comic relief. And
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, don't get me wrong, it's not
Speaker 1: like I'm not a stand up comedian. It was just
Speaker 1: you know, he was just enjoying. So it's you know,
Speaker 1: Ted comedy. It's like NPR comedy is really similar and um,
Speaker 1: but it but it was. It's it's super fun. So
Speaker 1: there's tons of parties and tons of like there's a
Speaker 1: big social part of Ted. Awesome. Um, what do you
Speaker 1: feel like And you don't have to like get specific
Speaker 1: if somebody like stuffed a bunch of money in your pocket,
Speaker 1: but what do you feel like it did for Invisible
Speaker 1: and Radiotopia? I mean it exposed me to a bunch
Speaker 1: of new people. They got to see the I know
Speaker 1: a lot of people have started listening to the show
Speaker 1: after seeing the Ted talk. Um it's a little different
Speaker 1: from me, which was it was kind of fascinating because
Speaker 1: I do have a public show, in a public profile
Speaker 1: and a pretty popular show. It's not quite as popular
Speaker 1: as uh it's Ted, but you know, we get we
Speaker 1: get several million downloads amounts too, and so um, it
Speaker 1: wasn't that huge like catapult from you know, obscurity as
Speaker 1: a social scientist and and and out there in the world.
Speaker 1: But it was just nice. It was like a nice
Speaker 1: compliment to the things that we already do and um.
Speaker 1: And it was just also fun to present stories in
Speaker 1: a new way because you know, because we are a podcast,
Speaker 1: we and we are a podcast often about visual things
Speaker 1: because we covered design, it was nice to have this
Speaker 1: other presentational format that had um, had some pictures, you know,
Speaker 1: so it's kind of it was just it was just
Speaker 1: really fun, like it was a great experience for me.
Speaker 1: Nice man, thank you for talking with this Roman. We
Speaker 1: appreciate it. You are the Ted Talking List friend we have. Actually,
Speaker 1: that's not true. Hodgman did one too as well. He's
Speaker 1: done a couple. Yeah, he's done a couple. Oh. He
Speaker 1: the only one I've seen of Hodgeman is it was
Speaker 1: very sweet. He talked about meeting his wife. Oh nice
Speaker 1: was that that had to be a Ted X. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's in Western Man, he's a he's he's a regular.
Speaker 1: But it's really fun. I'm going back this year as
Speaker 1: a TED mentor worked with other speakers and that was
Speaker 1: that was pretty enjoyable too. So are you practicing clapping
Speaker 1: your hands and going wrong, wrong, wrong for rehearsals. No, No,
Speaker 1: not exactly. It's very supportive. By One of the things
Speaker 1: that you don't get about TED is because the videos
Speaker 1: are edited, you don't see the all the mistakes. And
Speaker 1: I guarantee that everyone has made a mistake um in
Speaker 1: a TED talk. And one of the great things about
Speaker 1: the whole vibe of the room, and you might not
Speaker 1: know this from watching it, is that the whole room
Speaker 1: is like on your side. They're really really rooting for you.
Speaker 1: They want to they want to be wowed, and so
Speaker 1: if something technically goes wrong or you flub and have
Speaker 1: to restart, the whole crowd just applauds and cheers and
Speaker 1: just gets you going again. And it's really something. It's
Speaker 1: like so like joyful. Have you ever had a room
Speaker 1: full of billionaires clap for you? Yeah, But it's something
Speaker 1: you don't pick up from the presentation, which gets a
Speaker 1: little it's pretty slick. It's that that roughness that makes
Speaker 1: people like they're really you can sort of rely on
Speaker 1: them to lift you up. Um, and it's uh, it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of a it's a nice room to be
Speaker 1: in as an audience member and as a personal stage. Wow.
Speaker 1: Well that's good to know actually, because it seemed yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like you're walking into a room
Speaker 1: full of like a firing squad, not you, but just anybody,
Speaker 1: because it's just so quiet and it just seems stiff
Speaker 1: and um seem they hissed anytime you made a mistake. Exactly.
Speaker 1: It's not like that. It's a it's exact opposite. We
Speaker 1: I watched a train wreck of this talk this year.
Speaker 1: It was kind of the it was the most kind
Speaker 1: of amazing moment because people like stood up and cheered
Speaker 1: and try to get this kid going, and it was amazing.
Speaker 1: And it was such a disaster. It was like a
Speaker 1: performance arts. Like you're making my stomach hurt right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, but it but it was but in a way,
Speaker 1: it was like this catharic event for all six people
Speaker 1: in the theater and it was it was it was
Speaker 1: kind of fun. All right, Roman, thank you my friend,
Speaker 1: and um people, really, I know. We we talked about
Speaker 1: invisible more than we should as competitors, but it's a great,
Speaker 1: great show and people should support that. In radiotopia, always
Speaker 1: tell people if you don't, even if you don't think
Speaker 1: you like design, you should just try Invisible because it's
Speaker 1: much much more than that. Where can they go to
Speaker 1: find you, Roman, They can find us on our website
Speaker 1: at p I dot org or you know anywhere where
Speaker 1: you get podcasts. Well, thank you for coming on. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much. Yeah, my pleasure. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan. It's very exciting to me. Thanks man.
Speaker 1: All right, Well we'll talk to you soon. So Chuck.
Speaker 1: Uh that's Ted Talks. Yeah, thanks Roman, that was awesome. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what a cool dude. If you want to know more
Speaker 1: about Ted Talks, well just type Ted Talks into a
Speaker 1: search bar and start watching Ted Talks. There's a million
Speaker 1: of them basically. Um, and you can also read the
Speaker 1: article on how stuff Works about it. Yeah, um, and
Speaker 1: I said how stuff works, which means this time for
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this cremation. We did a great show
Speaker 1: on cremation quite a while ago. If we do say
Speaker 1: so so, If we do say so, this from Emily.
Speaker 1: She says, Hey, guys, my dad was just listening to cremation.
Speaker 1: My dad was cremated in two thousand four after passing
Speaker 1: away to stupid idiot cancer. Uh. And my step mom
Speaker 1: has really had a really interesting concept. She's really big
Speaker 1: on recycling. She's known locally as the Queen of recycling
Speaker 1: in Indianapolis. Wow, not bad. She found hundreds of teeny
Speaker 1: tiny medical bottles about the size of the last segment
Speaker 1: of your pinkie with tiny rubber plugs. She hand filled
Speaker 1: like three hundred bottles with my dad's creamines and put
Speaker 1: them on the mantle of the lodge at which we
Speaker 1: hosted his celebration. We had a celebration instead of a
Speaker 1: funeral outdoors under fall leaves, with wine and live music.
Speaker 1: As he was locally loved as a folk musician Craig Laughlin,
Speaker 1: all who loved him could take a few of the
Speaker 1: bottles of him with them. Pretty neat. That's a great party, favor.
Speaker 1: I think it's awesome. Since then, he's been to the
Speaker 1: Vango Museum in Amsterdam, he's in the Bellaggio Fountain in
Speaker 1: Las Vegas, and most recently he's mixed been mixed into
Speaker 1: black volcanics and in Iceland's snuff Alopicus Peninsula. It's called
Speaker 1: She even sent me how to pronounce its snail falls
Speaker 1: and and it's this. I've also scattered him in every
Speaker 1: apartment I've lived in since, always in the very back
Speaker 1: corner of a closet or in a crack somewhere. Um. Anyways,
Speaker 1: thanks for the episode. Pretty informative and I'm sure my
Speaker 1: dad would giggle if you knew his body was flailing
Speaker 1: around in the flames at the end. That's very cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's from Emily. And when I told her she was
Speaker 1: on listr mail, she just responded with a big uppercase
Speaker 1: expletive with an exclamation point. Shoot yep. And I was like, right,
Speaker 1: that's cool. Thanks. Emily's very excited. That is really neat, Like, uh,
Speaker 1: that's just a great story. Yeah, and you know what,
Speaker 1: if you want to send some of your dad's cream,
Speaker 1: anes will have him here in the studio with us. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: why not. Okay, I can't play any folk music though, no,
Speaker 1: but we'll we'll, we would take good care of it.
Speaker 1: And if you decided to do so, that's right. Okay,
Speaker 1: thanks for that, Chuck, and thank you Emily. Either way,
Speaker 1: whether you take him up on it or not. UH.
Speaker 1: If you out there wanted to get in touch with us,
Speaker 1: you can tweet to us at s y s K podcast.
Speaker 1: You can join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff
Speaker 1: each snow, you can send us an email to Stuff
Speaker 1: Podcast at how stuff Works dot com, and, as always,
Speaker 1: joined us at at home on the web, Stuff you
Speaker 1: Should Know dot com. For more on this and thousands
Speaker 1: of other topics, is it how stuff Works dot com