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Speaker 1: And now a dramatic reading from Michael Mann's Heat.

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Speaker 2: I'm angry. I'm very angry, Ralph. You know, you can

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Speaker 2: bawl my wife if she wants you to. You can

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Speaker 2: lounge around here on her sofa and her ex husband's

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Speaker 2: dead tech, postmodernist, bullshit house if you want to. But

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Speaker 2: you do not get to watch my fucking television set.

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Speaker 2: And now for another scene. Wait, I gotta look us up.

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Speaker 2: I gotta look at my line.

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Speaker 1: Give me, give me my prompt.

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Speaker 2: Why'd I get mixed up with that bitch?

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Speaker 1: Cause she's got a great ass.

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Speaker 2: End scene, beautiful, beautiful, Meleany. That was very I was

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Speaker 2: really nervous to do that.

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Speaker 1: You're a theater person, though, right you were, you took.

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Speaker 2: Theater, I am, but I'm kind of a shy person sometimes.

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Speaker 2: But I am a theater person, you know, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't have as much time to prepare, you know, because

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Speaker 2: prep is a lot of part of being a theater

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Speaker 2: in the theater, of course, so you know, I felt

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Speaker 2: very exposed. But I think it came out okay.

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Speaker 1: I mean, consider we decided to do this two minutes ago. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I think you did it incredible.

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Speaker 2: I thank you.

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Speaker 1: I am not theatrical. I just like trying impressions. I'm

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Speaker 1: not even saying I'm good at impressions, because I'm definitely not,

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Speaker 1: but I like trying them, if you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's great. I think you know, passion

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Speaker 2: is you know, eighty percent of a good impression.

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Speaker 1: I would say, I have no shame. I think that's

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Speaker 1: the bottom line.

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Speaker 2: That's great. Well, we're talking about Heat today, everybody, Michael

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Speaker 2: Man and all of his work and the nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: five classic Heat, which, like we mentioned last episode, thirty

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Speaker 2: years ago. Do you remember this movie coming out, Milly.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I do, And maybe this is something we can

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Speaker 1: talk about because I remember when it came out. I

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Speaker 1: was an high school and I was like, that movie

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Speaker 1: is for guys, yes, and not me.

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Speaker 2: You're wrong.

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Speaker 1: I am wrong. In fact, I'm probably one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest female Heat fans you.

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Speaker 2: Could find interesting.

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Speaker 1: And I say that knowing that everybody can like this movie.

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Speaker 1: Now it's not just for christ But that's something that

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Speaker 1: maybe is gonna come up a little bit with the

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Speaker 1: director Michael Man, because he's so he sort of has

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Speaker 1: like a theme going in some of his most of

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Speaker 1: his A lot of his movies, which we'll dive into.

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Speaker 2: And then we also have an amazing my area of expertise.

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Speaker 2: We have the comedian Jamie loftis host of The Bechdel Cast,

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Speaker 2: co host of The Bechdel Cast with Caitlin Durante, and

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Speaker 2: the author of the book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth

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Speaker 2: About hot Dogs. And she's gonna come on and talk

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Speaker 2: about Jesus Christ Superstar, which was a first time watch

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Speaker 2: for Millie. So that was a fun combo to get

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Speaker 2: to hear your thoughts, your first impressions of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like you guys really theater nerd

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Speaker 1: out like, which again is like maybe related to what

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Speaker 1: you've just done, this dramatic reading.

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Speaker 2: So there's just so much hatred for theater kids. They're

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Speaker 2: like the most hated species of human and I try

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Speaker 2: to like stick up for them a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Listen. I like that you do, because I, yes, I

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Speaker 1: am not a theater person, never have been. I've been

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Speaker 1: known to, you know, you know, have a few words

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Speaker 1: about them once in a while.

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Speaker 2: Shit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But honestly, I like that you defend them. And

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Speaker 1: as I'm getting older, are becoming more and more willing

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Speaker 1: to engage with the theatrics of your work.

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Speaker 2: People are people are embarrassed by sincerity, and I think

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Speaker 2: that there's nothing more more sincere than a theater kid.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of people run away from that. But

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Speaker 2: and I see that. I understand, I understand it. But anyways,

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Speaker 2: you get it.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of how I feel about being a film nerd.

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Speaker 1: It's like, you know who you are. I mean, most

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Speaker 1: people think you're a huge fucking dork, and yet you

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Speaker 1: accept it. We are cringe, but we are free.

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Speaker 2: Right, that's right, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Well, on that note, stay tuned everybody for a really

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Speaker 1: hot episode. You're listening to Deer Movies I Love.

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Speaker 3: And I've Got to.

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Speaker 1: Love Me to check the bo Hello, everybody, you are

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Speaker 1: listening to Dear Movies I Love You, which is a

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Speaker 1: podcast for people who are in a relationship with movies.

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Speaker 1: They when they were kids, they parted ways in after

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Speaker 1: high school and college, and then somehow came back together

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Speaker 1: during you know, family reunion in their hometown.

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Speaker 2: Right, my name is Millie de Chercho, my name is

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Speaker 2: Casey O'Brien.

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Speaker 1: And this episode is episode eighteen. Well we've done eighteen episodes.

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Speaker 2: Amazing does it feel like eighteen? It kind of does

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Speaker 2: it kind of does.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I did my last podcast. We did like what

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Speaker 1: two hundred episodes. Yeah, so I still feel like we're babies.

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Speaker 2: We're babies. Yeah, but uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: We're uh, We're gonna have a lot of fun this week.

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Speaker 1: I right off the bat, I have to talk. I

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Speaker 1: have to bring up some film related news.

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Speaker 2: Yes, please. This is kind of a we kind of

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Speaker 2: do news at the top of the show, so I

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Speaker 2: think this is a good time to bring that in.

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Speaker 1: It's a little film housekeeping. Now, this is kind of

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Speaker 1: a roundabout film news item, but I have to talk

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Speaker 1: about it because I think it's absolutely insane. Have you

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Speaker 1: been hearing the stories about the Annabelle doll that's been

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Speaker 1: wreaking havoc in New Orleans especially?

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Speaker 2: No, Okay, I have seen all of the Conjuring movies,

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Speaker 2: but I've never seen any of the Annabelle movies. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So I have some working knowledge of the world from

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Speaker 2: which she comes from.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so I I barely know. I mean, I think

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Speaker 1: I might have seen the first Conjuring movie, but I

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Speaker 1: barely know, and I actually barely know the real story

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Speaker 1: that it's based off of. Even though I know that

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Speaker 1: the the So basically it's a it's a true story

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Speaker 1: in the sense that the people that are in the

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Speaker 1: Conjuring are based off of a real life paranormal couple. Right.

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Speaker 2: They were like actual, like employees of the Catholic Church,

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Speaker 2: I believe, wow, going out and trying to like solve

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Speaker 2: ghost mysteries. I'm actually like scared what you're gonna tell

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Speaker 2: me about this? Annabelle Doll?

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's so okay. So here, I'm gonna back up

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Speaker 1: and give you the whole reason why I'm even bringing

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Speaker 1: this up. So the other night, my friend Eddie Ray

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Speaker 1: is like, hey, guys, if anybody wants to come over

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Speaker 1: to watch Annabelle, I'll be watching it. And I'm like,

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Speaker 1: why the fuck are you watching annabel again? Like that's weird,

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Speaker 1: And he was like, have you not heard about what's

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Speaker 1: going on in New Orleans? So this has actually happened.

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Speaker 1: There's two specific events that have happened recently in New Orleans, Louisiana.

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Speaker 1: Number one is that there was a jail break. Have

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Speaker 1: you heard about this? So I'm not gonna I don't

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Speaker 1: know all the details. You can look it up online.

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Speaker 1: It's everywhere. Basically, there were like ten inmates that escaped

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Speaker 1: from a prison.

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Speaker 2: I saw some tiktoks about this, yes, so yes.

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Speaker 1: And basically they like escaped through a hole in the

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Speaker 1: back of a toilet or something like that. Like and

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot and listen, TikTok is not good

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Speaker 1: if you like conspiracy theories, because there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people being like, how is that even possible? Like you can't,

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Speaker 1: Like there's plumbers that are like how is it? Like

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Speaker 1: how were they able to do this? You know, because

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Speaker 1: of the unique nature of modern prisons is you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like, really it's harder than ever to break out

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Speaker 1: of a prison, let's get serious, right, But somehow these

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Speaker 1: like ten dudes are managed to do it. So there's that.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is that there was a huge fire

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Speaker 1: that happened and it was at the Notaway Plantation.

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Speaker 2: And yes, okay, I saw this on TikTok too. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know as we're connected.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well I'm about to tell you how they're connected.

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Speaker 1: So essentially this, you know, this plantation that's been around

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Speaker 1: since like the eighteen hundreds. You know, for most people

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Speaker 1: who don't who haven't either lived in the South or

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Speaker 1: didn't grow up in the South. I mean, bottom line

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Speaker 1: is that the South still has actual plantation homes that

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Speaker 1: still are around, and you know they are a lot

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Speaker 1: of times museums and all this stuff. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: like depending on your feelings about that. I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 1: they're a symbol of racism and hatred and people hate them. Right.

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Speaker 2: Didn't Ryan Reynolds and Blake Lively get married on a plantation?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? And I remember, like, I mean just I remember

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Speaker 1: as a kid touring old plantation homes when I was

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Speaker 1: living in like South Carolina, and I mean, they've got

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Speaker 1: them in Georgia. I mean there was like I remember,

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Speaker 1: there was this like fucking gas station that we used

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Speaker 1: to go to pretty much every summer when we were

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Speaker 1: drive down to like Florida or whatever. That was like

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Speaker 1: called plantation house and it was basically like a fucking

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Speaker 1: quick trip, but it was in a plantation house. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, damn, that's so fucked up.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever go to soup plantation in Los Angeles?

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Speaker 1: Okay? You know I did, the one that's you're the

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Speaker 1: Beverly Center. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't think that one's there anymore.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I used to go to soup Plantation with my

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Speaker 1: friend my friend's April Richard's and Ship Pope, and we

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Speaker 1: used to rage on sup Plantation. Oh yeah, it's so good.

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Speaker 2: Sup Plantation is a like a buffet restaurant that serves

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Speaker 2: mostly soup and salads. They do have hot food too,

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Speaker 2: but it's like the main chili. Yeah, the main character

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Speaker 2: is like soup and salads, sostics.

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Speaker 1: If you're not a California person. There was a very

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Speaker 1: very similar comp in Atlanta, at least for a long

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Speaker 1: time called let Us Surprise You, let us soup Prise You.

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Speaker 2: Basically oh good double pun Oh.

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Speaker 1: I mean, whoever came up with these names? I mean,

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Speaker 1: sup Plantation is kind of problematic, but let us let

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Speaker 1: us supprise you. Fuck I went there all the time too,

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Speaker 1: you know nor Nordard Hills. Everybody knows. Okay, So back

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Speaker 1: to this plantation.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry I brought up sup plantat derailed.

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Speaker 1: You had to. It's like coming out of your body.

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Speaker 1: So this not a way Plantation has burned down, burn

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Speaker 1: down to the ground, right, And so people have figured

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Speaker 1: out that these two events that have happened in New

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Speaker 1: Orleans have happened suspiciously close to this tour that has

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Speaker 1: been going on with the actual Annabelle doll. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you know the real there's a real doll that you know. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the Conjuring movies are based off of Annabelle's based off

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Speaker 1: of which is like a raggedy ann doll basically, and normally,

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Speaker 1: this fucking bitch is locked in a fucking museum and

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Speaker 1: there's like some if you look at pictures, there's like

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Speaker 1: handwritten note cards on the on the glass being like

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Speaker 1: do not open this shit, like please, you're gonna unleash

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Speaker 1: you know, like a demon or whatever. But somebody opened it,

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Speaker 1: and now it has opened it. She's out, She's on tour.

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Speaker 1: Casey's like, she's in New Orleans. This is the problem. Like,

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Speaker 1: so everybody is is saying that the reason these two

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Speaker 1: things happened, the jail break happened in the plantation burning

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Speaker 1: now is because the Annabelle doll is in New Orleans

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Speaker 1: unleashing her powers.

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Speaker 2: They should not have let annabel go to New Orleans

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Speaker 2: because i New Orleans is like the most haunted city

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Speaker 2: in America.

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Speaker 1: I know. And this is the thing is that people

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Speaker 1: are like, it's if she doesn't leave, then it's there's

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Speaker 1: gonna be more problems. But here's the thing. There are

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Speaker 1: people who are actually like, actually, can Annabel come to

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Speaker 1: my city and burn down the plantation homes there because

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Speaker 1: we don't like them, Like, come to Georgia, Annabel, so

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Speaker 1: we can get rid of these fucking old racist homes.

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Speaker 2: She's like Godzilla. But can't you fucking believe that that's scary.

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Speaker 2: I don't mess with that stuff. I wouldn't bring I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't call upon this doll to visit my home, even

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Speaker 2: to destroy something evil. That's scary.

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Speaker 1: Well, now I'm like, Okay, there's gotta be another movie

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Speaker 1: in the works because of all this this new information.

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Speaker 2: Blumbhouse, get on it.

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Speaker 1: You could do the first part of it being like

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Speaker 1: sort of Jim Jarmishes down by Law, where you have

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Speaker 1: like a you know, black and white prison break, and

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Speaker 1: then you can move it into the you know, your

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Speaker 1: horror territory.

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Speaker 2: Or you know what this could be like uh nightmare

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Speaker 2: on Elm Street. What is it Freddy's new uh new

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Speaker 2: Nightmare where they're like making a Nightmare on Elm Street movie.

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Speaker 2: It could be kind of meta.

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Speaker 1: You know, man, who would direct that? I wouldn't want

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Speaker 1: James want on this. I don't know. I don't know, no.

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Speaker 2: Shade, but who would direct this? Ron Howard uh.

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Speaker 1: Ron Howard just pops into the like fifth fucking conjuring

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Speaker 1: movie and it's like, let me, let me try my

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Speaker 1: head at this.

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Speaker 2: He's a chameleon.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Well that fascinating. Thank you so much for informing me,

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Speaker 2: Millie and connecting these two disparate events that I didn't

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Speaker 2: even know were connected. Oh spooky, well fabulous. Well that's

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Speaker 2: the end of movie news.

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Speaker 1: Maybe forever. Yeah, last one.

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Speaker 2: We still have not had any word from people who

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Speaker 2: have tried out. Bradley Cooper is Philly cheese steak, So

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Speaker 2: please please do what you can out there, New Yorkers. Okay,

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Speaker 2: we've dilly dally for too long. We need to open

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Speaker 2: up the film Diary to talk about the movies we've

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Speaker 2: talked about we've seen in the past week. God, open

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Speaker 2: it up. What have you watched now? Full disclosure, We

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Speaker 2: the last episode we recorded all but two days before

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Speaker 2: this one, so there might not have been a bunch

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Speaker 2: of time to watch movies. But let me hear what

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Speaker 2: you got.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, this is what I'm saying. I'm about to

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Speaker 1: preface this by saying This is easily the worst film

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Speaker 1: diary that I've brought to the podcast in our eighteen episodes.

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Speaker 1: I haven't watched a movie, Okay, technically that's okay, Okay. However,

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Speaker 1: I have watched a short film that counts. This is

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Speaker 1: so dumb, so my afore mentioned Fred Eddie Ray, who

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Speaker 1: told me about the Nibelle curse.

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Speaker 2: He seems like he's in the know.

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Speaker 1: Oh he's listen. Eddie Ray is the king. Okay, everybody

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Speaker 1: go follow him on Instagram. He is. He is an

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Speaker 1: absolute king. Okay. He is a producer over an adult swim,

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Speaker 1: has been for years. He's like obsessed with Halloween, obsessed

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Speaker 1: with ghosts and aliens and horror movies and K pop,

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Speaker 1: which I'm about. He's the one that and you know,

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Speaker 1: basically indicted me into this world. Guide he is my

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Speaker 1: and on that note, he and I the other night

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Speaker 1: watched So I did not know this because I don't

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Speaker 1: know a ton of bands. Right I'm only starting to

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Speaker 1: get my footing in this whole world and it's been

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Speaker 1: a year. By the way, have I told you my

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Speaker 1: origin story of getting into K pop music? I tell

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Speaker 1: you about this. So I went to a party at

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Speaker 1: his house. This was last year, last March, and he

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Speaker 1: was having a little K pop party and he was

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Speaker 1: all of his friends were there. Who's shown us all

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Speaker 1: these videos before that. I had like no idea what

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Speaker 1: the fuck it was. And the only reason why I

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Speaker 1: remember this is because I caught COVID at that party

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Speaker 1: for the first time.

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Speaker 2: Sounds like you caught some other kind of fever too.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 1: I've been telling people that I have long COVID symptoms,

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Speaker 1: and the main one is that I like K pop.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if that doctor Fauci has ascribed that as

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Speaker 2: one of the long COVID symptoms.

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Speaker 1: So I'm at his house the other night and he's like,

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Speaker 1: did you know about their there's an entire K pop

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Speaker 1: vampire band.

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Speaker 2: I did see some posts. I think I caught a

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Speaker 2: little coffin on stage, a tiny, tiny coffin on stage.

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Speaker 1: So this shit is wild, Okay. So there's this band

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Speaker 1: called in Hypen or in hot in Hypen no no,

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Speaker 1: and hypen in hypen anyway and hypen it looks like

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Speaker 1: e N hYP e N and hypen right, So this

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Speaker 1: is a band of a c I don't know how

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Speaker 1: many people are in the band, but they're vampires and

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Speaker 1: there's all this like lore and stuff and they and

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Speaker 1: they just came out with these photos that make I mean,

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Speaker 1: they're insane. They look like this true true, like it's

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Speaker 1: all like kind of bordering on like the fetish world,

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Speaker 1: I have to say. I was like, damn. And then

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Speaker 1: I quickly he quick told me that there's this other

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Speaker 1: new band that has come out called a Team okay,

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Speaker 1: and they are ware Wolves. They're a were wolf k

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Speaker 1: pop band. And there's apparently a video on YouTube that

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Speaker 1: links the two bands together, like what is coming out

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Speaker 1: of the frame and then and the other one's coming

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Speaker 1: into the frame or something.

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Speaker 2: This feels like some sort of continuation of the Twilight saga.

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Speaker 1: Okay. I was like, if this is what K pop

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Speaker 1: is gonna be, I'm in. I'm like, listen if they

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Speaker 1: got it. If there's an alien K pop band, I'm

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Speaker 1: in there. Like how many other I mean, what do

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Speaker 1: we what do we got like mummies? Can we do

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Speaker 1: like K pop mummies? I don't know. I'm just like

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Speaker 1: obsessed with this really like high concept ship that's going

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Speaker 1: on right now. So I he had to show me

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Speaker 1: there's this short film that this band in Hypen has done,

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Speaker 1: and it's like the name of it is called like

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Speaker 1: untold Concept Cinema. And the whole reason why I'm even

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Speaker 1: bringing it into the film diary is because the word

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Speaker 1: cinema is in the title. So I'm like, it's in cinema.

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Speaker 1: But it's this eleven minute about twelve minute short film

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Speaker 1: where the members of this K pop band are traveling

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Speaker 1: through this kind of like no vampire zone that is

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Speaker 1: like it's very dingy. It kind of looks like the

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Speaker 1: beginning of Terminator. It's like they're definitely in like downtown Lah.

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Speaker 1: They're all in like one like Chevy suburban van and

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Speaker 1: and they're basically trying to get to the other side

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Speaker 1: of the no Vampire zone man. And then and then

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Speaker 1: they they're they're they're a suburban gets stopped by these

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Speaker 1: like you know, militaristic future you know, anti vampire hunters,

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Speaker 1: and then there's like a I mean, dude, it is this.

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Speaker 2: I feel like this could this should be a movie.

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Speaker 2: See I think it should too a feature.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, and like I looked up the guy that

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Speaker 1: directed it, and he's directed other things, Like I think

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Speaker 1: he's done a couple of things on Netflix. But I'm

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Speaker 1: like Oh, this is like a fully realized cinema yeah experience.

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Speaker 1: Like I was like, and they're just like they're getting

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Speaker 1: there's parts where they're getting like shot by bullets, but

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Speaker 1: of course they're vampires, so they're not feeling the feeling

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Speaker 1: the bullet holes. I mean, I was like, I'm blown away.

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Speaker 1: I'm blown away by this information.

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Speaker 2: So incredible. What was the name of it again, It's

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Speaker 2: called Untold.

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Speaker 1: Now. I don't know if Concept Cinema is actually in

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Speaker 1: the title. It's in a title on YouTube, but look

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Speaker 1: it up.

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Speaker 2: It's made by Concept Cinema maybe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. There's like there's like this one section where like

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Speaker 1: somebody radios or something that's like seven confirmed vampires.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Untold. That's so funny. That's like usually

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Speaker 2: like the biopic or like it's like a biography of

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Speaker 2: like a diva or something. I don't know for that, Okay,

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Speaker 2: like let me tell you right now.

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Speaker 1: This is one of my favorite things about K pop music.

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Speaker 1: I definitely think there's something that's lost in translation. But

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Speaker 1: every I swear to god, every K pop band has

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Speaker 1: an album that is literally like the most dramatic fucking title,

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Speaker 1: and it's usually like a word colon a phrase or

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Speaker 1: like or like two like two words colon one word.

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Speaker 1: It'll be like the Star chapter colon truth untold or

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Speaker 1: like or like you know, Map of the Soul colon tear,

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Speaker 1: and you're just like, I gotta tell you. It sounds great,

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Speaker 1: but it means.

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Speaker 2: Like, I don't know what does nonsense words?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So anyway, I hope that they all come out

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Speaker 1: with this movie. It's like a full length movie. They

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Speaker 1: name it something funny like that, and I can follow

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Speaker 1: the lore of this vampire K.

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Speaker 2: Pop am all right, very good.

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Speaker 1: So that's it for me again, very very very light week.

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Speaker 2: I had a pretty late week. Two. I saw twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty four is The Fall Guy with Ryan Gosling and

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Speaker 2: Emily Blunt. It was fun. It's directed by David Leech,

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Speaker 2: who did I believe? He co directed the first John

394
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Speaker 2: Wick and then he did movies like Atomic Blonde and

395
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Speaker 2: Bullet Train and those are all pretty fun action movies,

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Speaker 2: and this is a fun action movie.

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Speaker 1: So I thought she were gonna say David Lean, the

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Speaker 1: director of Laurence Oft.

399
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Speaker 2: David Lean, he's one hundred and eighteen and he's directing

400
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Speaker 2: these cartoonish action movies. No, it was good. It was fun.

401
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 2: And then I watched a movie that I really enjoy

402
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Speaker 2: with Ben Affleck. Came out in twenty sixteen. It's called

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Speaker 2: The Accountant. Have you seen this movie?

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00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 1: And like, actually I want to.

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Speaker 2: It is pretty It's like pretty over the top, campy genre.

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Speaker 2: It feels like something that would have come out in

408
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Speaker 2: like the eighties, you know. And you know, I don't

409
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Speaker 2: know if it is necessarily complimentary to the neurodivergent community,

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00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 2: but he is supposed to be on the spectrum and

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Speaker 2: that gives him special, you know, brain abilities to be

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Speaker 2: an amazing accountant. But at the same time, he's also

413
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Speaker 2: learned all these martial arts and military skills and he's

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Speaker 2: very efficient but socially awkward and it's kind of fun.

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Speaker 2: There's a sequel and I can't wait to watch it.

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Speaker 1: I I get every bit of information in my life

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Speaker 1: from TikTok as. You know, I had no idea that

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Speaker 1: Ben Affleck is fluent in Spanish.

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Speaker 2: Yes, he's fluent. I watched those tiktoks a lot too

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Speaker 2: good for him. His mom, I believe, is fluent in

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Speaker 2: Spanish and maybe from somewhere in South America. I could

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Speaker 2: be incorrect.

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Speaker 1: About that. Yeah, yeah, lived in Mexico or something. I

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Speaker 1: don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there's something like that. And it's funny because I

426
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,360
Speaker 2: don't think j Lo is fluent in Spanish, but Ben

427
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Speaker 2: Affleck is.

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Speaker 1: So I gotta tell you. You know, my old co

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Speaker 1: host of my old podcast, Daniel Henderson, was a huge

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Speaker 1: Ben Affleck fan, and we talked about him quite a

431
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Speaker 1: bit on that podcast, and I at the time didn't

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Speaker 1: know this information, and I feel like if I had

433
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Speaker 1: known about it, I would have retroactively been crazy for him,

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Speaker 1: just like she is.

435
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: I have a soft spot for Ben.

436
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:52,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, I never did until meeting Danielle, and now I'm

437
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,520
Speaker 1: like watching him speak Spanish, I was quite frankly blown

438
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: away from Allin's perspective.

439
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 2: If you don't wow from allin perspective. Okay, very good

440
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 2: from that vantage point, but that's it. That's all I watched.

441
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 2: So okay, let's close up those diaries.

442
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Oh my god, these vampire k poppers.

443
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 2: Moving on to our main discussion, Millie, ooh, what a

444
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: good movie we're talking about today, Heat from nineteen ninety five.

445
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: Now you have said that you're a huge Heat fan.

446
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: Why oh why? Okay, a lot of it has to

447
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: do with the director, Michael Man. M I always like

448
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: hesitate to ask this question now because it's like, even

449
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: though you might not have been around for like a

450
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: certain era of things, you know, and Netflix and all

451
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 1: these things happened that you can watch anything that you can't.

452
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 1: But I was a child during the Miami Vice era,

453
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 1: and Miami Vice, for people who don't remember, the original

454
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 1: TV show was a sort of like I gotta tell you,

455
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: I think it's sort of one of the first sort

456
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: of like prestige televisiony type of things, right sure, and

457
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: you know, like kind of that whole eighties era of

458
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,919
Speaker 1: this kind of like I don't know, elevated television. But

459
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,399
Speaker 1: Michael Man was an executive producer and he was a

460
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: huge influence on the way that it looked and the

461
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 1: way that it sounded, and it was like and it

462
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: was a show that featured Don Johnson, the father of

463
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 1: Dakota Johnson, and Philip Michael Thomas, and they were like

464
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: a pair of like detectives working in Miami, and you know,

465
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: they were trying to bust all these like drug cartel

466
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: types and Edward James almost was their chief who he

467
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: was my favorite character because he was very like by

468
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: the book Stoic type. I remember this TV show coming

469
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: on now. It was very much here towards adults, even

470
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,320
Speaker 1: though the concept of it was like supposed to be

471
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: you know, it was very influenced by MTV, so it

472
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 1: was like one of the first shows to play popular music.

473
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: So it was you know, they licensed like all this

474
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: popular music and it was always playing like you know,

475
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: new wave bands and stuff. And then you know, it

476
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: was very art deco Miami, like whites and pinks and blues.

477
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: Like I read somewhere that Michael Mann was basically like

478
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 1: no browns or oranges on the show. It's gotta we

479
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: got to have like a bright, you know, pastel palette.

480
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: But the show itself was very I feel like, very

481
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 1: much like kind of set the table for maybe something

482
00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: like heat and certainly stuff you know, like I mean,

483
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: I think he did Manhunter around the same time that

484
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: Miami Vice was on, but you know, he had already

485
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: done Thief, and Thief was like basically Miami Vice. So

486
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: it's kind of like a connective tissue between like some

487
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: of his earlier stuff and his later stuff. But to

488
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,159
Speaker 1: get to your original question, that shit, that world, that

489
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: he's created with like the visuals and the kind of

490
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: characters that he puts in these worlds is so appealing

491
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 1: to me. And I think it's because it feels like

492
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 1: going back to our couple episodes back when we talked

493
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: about Alen Delon and the Samurai, it feels very French

494
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: crime stuff. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes, because

495
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: there's this kind of like methodical character study thing happening.

496
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure there's explosions and there's gunfights, and

497
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of like high drama stuff happening,

498
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 1: but for the most part, it's more about like the

499
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: interior lives of these criminals and these cops, and it's

500
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: more I don't know, there's like the pacing of it

501
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 1: is really attractive to me. It kind of shows you

502
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,720
Speaker 1: kind of the inner workings of things and how to

503
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: set up crimes and heist and what the cops do

504
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: in order to bust people. And I don't know, just

505
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: like how the sausages made type of stuff, and I

506
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: just love that. And when you pair that with again

507
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: his sort of like very appealing visual style, I mean,

508
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: I just like go crazy for those Michael Mann crime movies.

509
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: And I feel like he was kind of the big one.

510
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: I mean that he's I mean, it became a classic

511
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: and it's influenced like so many other directors, so I

512
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: was it's kind of irresistible, even though I did not

513
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: watch it when it first came out.

514
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean it's interesting you your connection to

515
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: like French criminal movies like this, they are he is

516
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 2: sort of existing in that tradition in the way that

517
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 2: it's like what if a criminal like loves poetry, or

518
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 2: like if a criminal is like thoughtful and has emotional depth,

519
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 2: And it's like kind of like posing that sort of

520
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: question with the types of criminals that he has in

521
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 2: his movies. Man, Like, Yeah, like you talked about the

522
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 2: colors of Michael Man movies, there is just like a

523
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 2: Michaelman vibe. There was a shot in Heat and I

524
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: think it's in like downtown LA at night and a

525
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 2: car is just turning onto an empty street and like

526
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: the light on the street is like blue at night,

527
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: and it's just like this just feels like a Michaelman world.

528
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: And we talk about that all the time with movies

529
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: like them being what makes them so enticing and exciting

530
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 2: is being able to enter a very specific world that

531
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: feels a certain way, and Michael Mann certainly has a

532
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 2: world he's created, and his universe feels a certain way

533
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: that's like totally uh intoxicating.

534
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I gotta say in the world too, is

535
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 1: not too precious, if you know what I'm saying. Yeah,

536
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: Like it feels like it's lived in but it's not,

537
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: because you're you know, obviously talk about people like Wes

538
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: Anderson or even Hitchcock, where you're like, Okay, these are

539
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:33,240
Speaker 1: like very methodical, distinct, curated, exactly curated worlds. But his

540
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: world is curated, but it's not. It still feels natural

541
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: and not artificial. And like that's the thing about Manhunter,

542
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: which Michael Man also directed Manhunter in nineteen eighty six,

543
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: which I talked about last week in my film diary

544
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: a little bit because I fell asleep during it, and

545
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: but I've seen it many times. Okay, that movie looks incredible,

546
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: and that's why I'm like, Okay, again, this is like

547
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: a consistent style. But again it feels very eighties to

548
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: me in a way.

549
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: Like yea, even in heat neon.

550
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, even in heat, there's a different color palette happening

551
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: in heat it's a little darker, but there is like

552
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: a I don't know, some sort of like Patina to

553
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: it that feels like a Michael Mann Patina. Does that

554
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah, well, I was wondering, do you want

555
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: to give a synopsis to people?

556
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: Do I have a very short You know, this is

557
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: a long movie. It's two hours and fifty minutes, but

558
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: it is kind of a It's not an uncomplicated plot

559
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 2: because a lot happens. It's almost like a novel this movie,

560
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 2: but it's the basic structure of it is pretty simple.

561
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 2: Neil McCauley played by Robert de Niro, is a true professional,

562
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 2: professional thief. He runs a very tight crew and takes

563
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,720
Speaker 2: down huge scores. He is like a pro, very serious,

564
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: very professional vincent Hannah al Pacino. He is an equally

565
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 2: obsessed police detective who is trying to take down McCauley's crew.

566
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 2: These men are both insane and there's an awareness that

567
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 2: there's a huge score coming up. Robert de Niro's trying

568
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: to pull it off. Al Pacino's trying to thwart him.

569
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 1: Who will win.

570
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 2: Also, they have dysfunctional relationships with women, and they are

571
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 2: trying to handle those while they handle their professional lives.

572
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the whole movie to me seems very like

573
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: Shakespearean or kind of Greek tragedy, like because it's like

574
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 1: you hear, I've felt like, you know, the good versus

575
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: the bad, and they're kind of cat and mousing, but

576
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: they're also there's also kind of this weird like appreciation

577
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: for the others' work. Yeah, because they're both kind of

578
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: like the same type of guy, right.

579
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean there's the famous scene where al

580
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: Pacino and Robert de Niro get coffee together. They're like

581
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: in the middle of this movie and they like, I mean,

582
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 2: it's very obvious to the audience and to the characters themselves.

583
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 2: They're like, we have such respect for each other. If

584
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,720
Speaker 2: we weren't doing this, I think we'd be best friends.

585
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it just yeah, yeah, No, it's a

586
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: very like game recognized game thing happening. Yeah. So, God,

587
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: there is a lot of meat on this bone, So

588
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: I apologize if I go a little ham get it.

589
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 1: So I want to go back to kind of what

590
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: I first talked about, uh, sort of near the opening

591
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: of the episode about heat and sort of Michael Mann

592
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 1: movies being dude movies.

593
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 2: Yes, What are your concept of a dude movie?

594
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on this? Do you believe in

595
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: dude movies? I mean, I know we don't believe in them,

596
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: believe in them, right, but you know in that kind of.

597
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 2: Like do I believe they exist?

598
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: Yeah? Or like you know, is there or have there

599
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: been times in your life where maybe you've had like

600
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: girlfriends or something or you're like female family members that

601
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: have been like, I'm not watching it. That's a guy movie.

602
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: I'm not watching that shit. Yeah.

603
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 2: I think there is certainly a type of movie that

604
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 2: men predominantly love and seems to be made for men.

605
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 2: A movie like Heat is such a beloved dude movie,

606
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 2: Like I feel like the most annoying guy this is

607
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 2: his favorite movie.

608
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, or like Scarface or the Godfather movies. Yeah, all Paccino,

609
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: anything that Pacchino's in. Yes.

610
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 2: You know when you say a dude movie, it's like

611
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: a movie that is like cool and stylish in some

612
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 2: capacity and maybe does have like actually, I think this

613
00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: is part of it too, that it dude movie has

614
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: to have some sort of emotional depth to it so

615
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: that a guy can really feel invested, be like whoa

616
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 2: I'm like feeling feelings.

617
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 1: I would literally that's it, Like, that's what I was

618
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: trying to get you to say. In a way, I

619
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: was like, these are movies that put dudes in their

620
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: feelings so fast. Yeah, And it's interesting because you know, Okay,

621
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: first of all, when we when we say this concept,

622
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: I mean we're obviously we're kind of going on a

623
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: stereotype of kind of these like cis hit dudes who

624
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: are just kind of again like in their feelings about

625
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: a movie that is not actually about people who are emotional.

626
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 1: It's about like them trying to be emotional via other

627
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: things like crime and money and something like that. So

628
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: that's to me, I think what the dude movie to

629
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: me has always symbolized, which is just like guys who

630
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 1: watch these movies and are able to finally feel things

631
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:05,640
Speaker 1: in some way.

632
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 2: I also think though, like if you say, like your

633
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 2: favorite movie is Heat, that doesn't betray a masculinity, you

634
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,120
Speaker 2: can be like, oh, yeah, totally dudes, dude, it's kind

635
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: of like a secret that they feel things when they

636
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 2: watch it. But if you say, like, you know a

637
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 2: more it. You know, if you say your favorite movie

638
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 2: is like Portrait of a Lady on Fire, that says

639
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: something about you emotionally, you're like, oh you you you

640
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: are a thoughtful person, you know, or like you have

641
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 2: a lot of emotional depth to you. You have a

642
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:44,799
Speaker 2: lot of feelings, and you're open with your feelings. But

643
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: if you say your favorite movie's Heat, it's kind of

644
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: like you can still be like, oh, I'm just like

645
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,759
Speaker 2: I'm a man's man, you know, it still has the

646
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,320
Speaker 2: shield of being a manly man. You know what I'm saying,

647
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 2: right right, And that's it's yeah, it's very my' like

648
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 2: a okay, like here, I'm my masculinity is protected because

649
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 2: my favorite movie is Heat, which I think obviously now,

650
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: I mean we're talking about like nineties, like mid nineties,

651
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: I guess we were still all still caring about that

652
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: a lot. I think that's slowly being dismantled, thank you

653
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 2: very much, modern masculinity. But it's like that feeling of like,

654
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: so I think that that is what made me not

655
00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 2: want to watch Heat for a long time, of course,

656
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: and it really wasn't until I was older that I

657
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 2: actually watched it and that I began to really love

658
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: just the Michael Mann movies like and then I of course,

659
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: you know, I kind of got into French crime films

660
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 2: and noir and stuff. I kind of opened the world

661
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 2: up for some of this, even though these are not

662
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,000
Speaker 2: issues that I deal with on a regular basis.

663
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: I don't deal with or care about men trying to

664
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 1: have feelings with their friend who's a cop and their criminals.

665
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? This is that very I

666
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,720
Speaker 1: guess I don't really have a ton to grab onto

667
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: in that way, but I find it fascinating somehow. I

668
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: love the character studies and that kind of stuff, and

669
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: there is something like super super fun about Pacino and

670
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 1: de Niro together.

671
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,919
Speaker 2: Right absolutely. I mean that was a big thing when

672
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 2: this came out, was that they're advertising it's like they're

673
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: actually this is the first time they've ever been on

674
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:30,319
Speaker 2: screen together, these two titans of cinema, and they've been

675
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 2: in they were in the same movie. They're both in

676
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 2: The Godfather too, but they're never share a scene together.

677
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 2: And they're in sort of similar types of movies in

678
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 2: the seventies and eighties and stuff, and so to have

679
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 2: them kind of face off, it's a big deal, you know.

680
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 2: And it is this sort of these sort of two

681
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 2: titans of masculinity in some ways Italian masculinity, Italian masculinity.

682
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 2: And I will say al Pacino is uh a wild

683
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: man in this I was.

684
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: Gonna say, first of all, I have to ask you,

685
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: are you a Paccino or de Niro boy?

686
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 2: I'm a much I'm a huge Pacino boy. I'm a

687
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 2: Pachi pachchi year leader, er leader. You know. I like

688
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 2: Robert de Niro. But I might get struck dead by

689
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 2: saying this, but he does kind of the same thing

690
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 2: a lot of the time.

691
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:30,919
Speaker 1: M hmm mm hmm.

692
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 2: And like, I feel like al Pacino he is so

693
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 2: wild in some of these scenes. It's kind of like,

694
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: is does he know the cameras rolling? Like he just

695
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 2: seems so insane in some of these scenes, Like and

696
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 2: he's taking such big swings that it's like almost outrageous.

697
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:53,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, he has. Like this is the thing about Pacino's

698
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: acting is that he seems like he's being possessed a lot. Yes,

699
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: Like you can tell his eyes go off to the

700
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: like when he's like in this moment, You're like, oh fuck,

701
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: like he's gonna explode. I don't even think he really

702
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 1: knows what he's gonna say. Like he's kind of being

703
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: possessed maybe by the Annabel doll, but you know whatever.

704
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 2: Like, but get the Annabel Doll away from al Pacino.

705
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,720
Speaker 2: He's become it's made him do crazy things.

706
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and like you're right about well, I won't say

707
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:24,919
Speaker 1: you're right about de Niro being kind of one note,

708
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: but he is like he has this he's an archetype, right,

709
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: and which a lot of people have glommed onto it.

710
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: And I like him.

711
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: I don't dislike him, yeah, you know, but I just

712
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 2: think about that scene with like Albert. I think he

713
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: is this like criminal they check in on out who

714
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,720
Speaker 2: like kind of out in the boonies. Do you remember

715
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 2: that scene where they're like setting up a meeting with

716
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 2: his brother at a club, this criminal Albert and like

717
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: al Pacino, I think it's Albert. Is that his name?

718
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: You mean?

719
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: Tone Loake's brother, Tone.

720
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 2: Loake's brother that they had the first meeting with where

721
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: he was like I was just gonna come see you, Vincent,

722
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 2: and he's like Albert, Albert WHOA. He's like just bouncing around,

723
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 2: standing up. He's like, don't fucking waste my time.

724
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 1: Ho.

725
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: He's like dancing around and it's like almost like he's

726
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,920
Speaker 2: not in the scene, like it's like he's doing such

727
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 2: crazy He's kind of just like looking around, bouncing in

728
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,800
Speaker 2: his chair, and I mean he's it's so nutty.

729
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and like, here's the vibe. He's always

730
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:27,719
Speaker 1: been this way. If you watch like Dog Day Afternoon,

731
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 1: that's basically him going Attica attica, but in a different,

732
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: different time, in a different era. Like he's he's been

733
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: this type of actor his entire career. And so I

734
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: guess when I do watch Heat, I'm just like reminded

735
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 1: of how much I enjoy his stupid shit. Like I'm

736
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: just like, I love this stupid shit, like whatever it is.

737
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:48,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's actually there are times where I'm like,

738
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: this is good acting. There are times where I'm like,

739
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 1: he's possessed by the Annibel doll, and this is fucking

740
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: weird and funny. So I wanted to ask a little

741
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,160
Speaker 1: bit about this because I have to. It's just my

742
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 1: nature to want to talk about this. But so everybody

743
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: in this movie, all the men in this movie, for

744
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,640
Speaker 1: the most part, maybe not tom Noonan, which we'll talk

745
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 1: about in a second.

746
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 2: We brought him up another tom Noonan appearance on our podcast.

747
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,600
Speaker 1: Tom Noonan working in master Control in the archives of

748
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:32,319
Speaker 1: the old cable television building. Uh, they all have for

749
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: the most part women in their lives, like wives and girlfriends,

750
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:40,000
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. Now, the scenario is you've got

751
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 1: de Niro's crew, who feature actors such as Danny Trejo,

752
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 1: Tom Sizemore, Belle Kilmer most famously right yep. And then

753
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,479
Speaker 1: there's the Nazi guy. We'll talk about him later because

754
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 1: he sucks. Yeah, it's just mean girl. No, oh, Wayne, girl,

755
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 1: don't you go to him a mean girl? Like to

756
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,959
Speaker 1: say the least. Casey, he's a bit of a girl.

757
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: So there's actually this really famous scene of all of

758
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: them going out to dinner and it's kind of like, okay,

759
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: everybody and his crew comes to dinner, their lives and

760
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: their kids are there. It's this very like, you know,

761
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 1: nice celebratory kind of event. And then you've got de

762
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: Niro's character, right McCauley. Now, he sort of famously is

763
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: single for this movie. He eventually meets a woman, but

764
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:40,520
Speaker 1: up until that point he lives this kind of very austere,

765
00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: no attachments, get in and out kind of life.

766
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 4: Like.

767
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,320
Speaker 1: It's kind of his famous line in the in the film,

768
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: which is don't let yourself get attached to anything you

769
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: are not willing to walk out on in thirty seconds

770
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 1: flat if you feel heat around the corner.

771
00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 2: Right.

772
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 1: So, this is why this motherfucker has no furniture in

773
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 1: his house. This is why he has no partner, this

774
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: is why he's got no kids. And he's just like

775
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: ready to go because he's like, I don't attachments weigh

776
00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,239
Speaker 1: me down and get you in trouble. If you're trying

777
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,839
Speaker 1: to be a master criminal, you can't have your shit right.

778
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: But at some point he wants a girlfriend. I mean,

779
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 1: let's get sire. He just wants a girlfriend. He's looking

780
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: around at this dinner. All of his partners have partners

781
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,320
Speaker 1: and everyone's getting diamond rings and the kids are giggling

782
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: and all the shit. And now he's like, oh, I'm

783
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 1: a little lonely. So he ends up meeting this woman, Edie,

784
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 1: who is played.

785
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 2: By Amy Brennanman Amy Brennanman.

786
00:45:44,320 --> 00:45:48,319
Speaker 1: Now this woman he meets in a bookstore, effectively she

787
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,080
Speaker 1: works at the bookstore. They're at a lunch counter and

788
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: she's like, hey, come in often, what's your name? What

789
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: you do this? And then or first he's like, what

790
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: you trying to know about me lady, like I tell

791
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: you shit. But then he softens and then they start

792
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: dating effectively, and that it moves on. Obviously, this is

793
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: a big storyline in the film for him. But this

794
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: is the thing that I wanted to talk about in

795
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: terms of the male characters in this movie, but also

796
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: the male characters in a lot of Michael Mann movies,

797
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: which is that they seem to be men who want

798
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 1: to leave the business to have a stable life, and

799
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 1: usually that stable life has to deal with women and

800
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 1: wives and girlfriends, which I think is a very interesting

801
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 1: theme that reoccurs MM. And there's definitely different scenarios going

802
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: on in Heat because like, for example, the Val Kilmer character,

803
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: his wife is played by Ashley Judd, and she they

804
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: have a kid, a small child, and she's just like,

805
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 1: all right, you you're a criminal. Then you come home.

806
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: Then you come home and you make you know, you

807
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,800
Speaker 1: gamble all your money away. What are we going to

808
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: get a better life. We live in a shitthole apartment, like,

809
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: let's get it together. And he loves her very much

810
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: and doesn't want to lead it, doesn't want her to

811
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 1: leave him, but he is kind of unable to work

812
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: on himself. I guess, yeah, and then you've got you know,

813
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: obviously McAuley being this like very like one foot up

814
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: door type of guy, doesn't want a girlfriend eventually wanting

815
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: a girlfriend. And then you've got on the other side,

816
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: this al Pacino character who is effectively in a relationship.

817
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,880
Speaker 1: He is the step dad to a woman's you know,

818
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: teenage daughter who's played by Natalie Portman, and you can

819
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 1: tell he wants that life. He wants to be married

820
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: and wants specially wants to be the dad to this

821
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: Natalie Portman group, but his job is too important. And

822
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:58,839
Speaker 1: so this is I think what I want to talk

823
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: about is that idea of like the push and pull

824
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: for these men who are like, but I love my job,

825
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 1: but I want my woman and the woman's unhappy, and

826
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: what do I do. I can't I'm obsessed, I can't

827
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: have to answer my pager, I can't be at the

828
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 1: recital or whatever. And so I don't know, I mean

829
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: to have that come up because it also comes up

830
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:22,239
Speaker 1: in Thief, right, yeah, with the James conn character who

831
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,719
Speaker 1: also is like trying to date or trying to have

832
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: h love in his life. So I mean, don't you

833
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: think that's a weird thing to kind of keep coming

834
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:30,760
Speaker 1: up in different films.

835
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is interesting because it's also interesting because that's

836
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 2: just such a sort of a normal problem, yes, that

837
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 2: you know, the balance of family and your career, and

838
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,560
Speaker 2: it's and I feel like a lot of men sort

839
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 2: of think like, well, my avenue to a life that

840
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 2: can be easier in the future and I can then

841
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 2: give more time to my family. The avenue to get

842
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 2: to that place, that imaginary place in the future is

843
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 2: through working harder through my job, I will get more

844
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 2: money and then I'll be able to take more time

845
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,799
Speaker 2: off and be with my family more. But that's sort

846
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 2: of a fallacy in real life, and also in these movies,

847
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 2: you know, they can never there's no future place where

848
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,840
Speaker 2: it will be easier to be with the woman of

849
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 2: your dreams. You know, you have to kind of do

850
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 2: that now, not at some future point, you know.

851
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. The interesting thing I think, to be honest, I

852
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: think the Paccino relationship is maybe the most interesting because,

853
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of stuff that happened. There's

854
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. By the way, trigger warning and

855
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 1: spoiler alert, right, there is a scene towards the end

856
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 1: of the film where the Natalie Portman character, who is

857
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:03,320
Speaker 1: again his kind of stepdaughter, the daughter of this woman

858
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,319
Speaker 1: that he's either married to or dating, and you know,

859
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,240
Speaker 1: basically her real father is like nowhere to be found,

860
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: and she just seems very you know, unmoored by all

861
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: of this trauma. Let's get serious, and she ends up

862
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:26,719
Speaker 1: attempting to unerlive herself in a bathtub in al Pacino's

863
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 1: character's hotel.

864
00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 2: Which is sort of an interesting choice because al Pacino

865
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: has effectively been kicked out of his own home and

866
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:37,800
Speaker 2: is staying at a hotel, and we just have to

867
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 2: assume that Natalie Portman looked up where he was staying

868
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 2: and then decided to end her life in the bathroom

869
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:47,800
Speaker 2: of the hotel where he was staying.

870
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 1: And I gotta tell you, I mean, I've seen this

871
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: movie a few times now, man, it is so tragic.

872
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 1: When that I was like, is this kind of like

873
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:59,400
Speaker 1: too much? Well, and like this is I think the

874
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:03,680
Speaker 1: the constant runner in the film for his character is

875
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: that he's he's basically like I think he feels very

876
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,000
Speaker 1: tenderly and there are times where, like there are scenes

877
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: in the film where he acts very human towards family members,

878
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 1: his own family members, but the family members of people

879
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: who have died in the film. Like he's and you

880
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: can tell he's like rocked by all of his all

881
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: of the job stuff that he has to have where

882
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: he has to like deal with horrible crimes and and

883
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: it's almost like he knows. He's almost like he knows

884
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 1: that this is messing with him and that's and it's

885
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: like hurting him on like a psychic emotional mental level, right, Yeah,

886
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: but he almost can't help it, like he's like, well,

887
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: this is my life. My life is that I'm so

888
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: fucking badly damaged by my job that I cannot have stability. Yeah.

889
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,920
Speaker 2: There's a scene that I was kind of made me

890
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: like laugh, but it illustrated how obsessed he is with

891
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,399
Speaker 2: his job. I think it's the one where he comes

892
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: home and his wife is getting ready to go out,

893
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 2: and he's.

894
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 1: Like, where are we going? Where are you going?

895
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 2: And she's like, I'm going out, and she like leaves

896
00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 2: and goes out, and he had just come home from work,

897
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 2: but he kind of sees that she's going out and

898
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 2: he's like, okay, cool, I can go work some more then,

899
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 2: and he leaves and like hops in a copter, you know,

900
00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,920
Speaker 2: like to go like but it's like he can't even

901
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 2: It's like she really is holding him back in a way.

902
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 2: If she wasn't there, what would he be? He would

903
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 2: be even worse.

904
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yes, yeah, I mean there are times where, yeah,

905
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,680
Speaker 1: that balance is kind of kind of nutty.

906
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 2: Not couldn't be me. I would never work that much.

907
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,040
Speaker 1: Really, you would quit this podcast to go and hang

908
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,239
Speaker 1: out with your wife and your daughter. I mean, i'd

909
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 1: let you. To be completely honest with you, I want

910
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 1: you to have work life balance right now.

911
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,560
Speaker 2: I do. But you know, the game, the podcast game.

912
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: It's just I'm addicted to it.

913
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:08,960
Speaker 1: I know. I keep paging you nine to one one

914
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 1: to be like answer my phone calls. All right, we

915
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 1: got to talk about I'm sorry now that I'm on

916
00:53:15,080 --> 00:53:20,840
Speaker 1: this tip, we gotta talk about Eadie and this whole fair.

917
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 2: Note in your notes. In your notes, it says, ain't

918
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 2: no fucking way.

919
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: This fan dango, dude. This is the one thing about

920
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: Heat that I literally cannot get over, which is this

921
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 1: fucking book selling graphic designer who fucks McCauley. On the

922
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 1: first night, he was sort of mean to her.

923
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:05,399
Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna. They meet at the coffee shop

924
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: and he has a book on medals that he bought

925
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: at her bookstore, and she's like, what are you reading?

926
00:54:09,520 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 2: And he's like, fuck you care what you what are

927
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,799
Speaker 2: you talking to me for? And I'm like, it's amazing

928
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,080
Speaker 2: he went from that to sleeping with that woman in

929
00:54:19,160 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 2: one night. Like he's such an ass Like so she's like,

930
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: stay out of my business, and she's like, Jesus Christ, sorry.

931
00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:31,760
Speaker 1: Listen, I'm probably as hard up as anyone as anyone

932
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: at this point in my life. But if that I

933
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:36,959
Speaker 1: would never sleep with a guy. If he was that

934
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: mean to me at the beginning, like that is so crazy.

935
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: I would have Really he was really in the negative.

936
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:47,719
Speaker 1: He really you know what, I'd need a second date

937
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,040
Speaker 1: with this guy because he was kind of an asshole

938
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: to me when I asked him about that my book.

939
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 4: Not even kind of an asshole, but like like it's

940
00:54:55,480 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 4: like he was about to fight her, like eating soup

941
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:03,080
Speaker 4: at a counter.

942
00:55:03,920 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: It's like, yo, eatie, feel this guy out a little bit, okay,

943
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: come on, girl, like Jesus Christ. So there's that thing

944
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,720
Speaker 1: where I'm just like, okay, she I don't know. Clearly

945
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,319
Speaker 1: was like fuck it right. So then there's the whole

946
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: like her whole backstory is so insane because it's like,

947
00:55:21,960 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: she's from Appalachia has.

948
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 2: The word it's way too complicated because he asks where's

949
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: your family from and she said Scotland and then they

950
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:33,399
Speaker 2: came to Appalachian the seventeen hundreds. I was like, why

951
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 2: do we need to know this about the character?

952
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 1: I was like, so you are not from Scotland at all.

953
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 1: Like when people are like, oh, I'm Irish, like my

954
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: family came to America like in the fourteen hundreds, or

955
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:54,839
Speaker 1: I'm like okay, like yeah, that's a long time ago.

956
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: Aren't you just from North Carolina? Just say it?

957
00:55:58,880 --> 00:55:59,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

958
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 1: So She's Appalachian has the worst Southern accent.

959
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 2: By the way, Sorry, no shade to She's Appalachian went

960
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 2: to Parsons in New York City and is now in

961
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 2: Los Angeles for the graphic design, but is working at

962
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:19,080
Speaker 2: Hennessy and Ingles, the famed architecture bookstore in Los Angeles.

963
00:56:19,160 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: It's like, what why is this in the could I

964
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 2: feel like they could have cut out a little bit of.

965
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 1: That, Oh, Parsons, I forgot she went to Parsons that

966
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: is so so funny. But this is the thing, is

967
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 1: that the whole basis of her character is to give

968
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: DeNiro some like human steaks, right, It's like to get

969
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:46,640
Speaker 1: his ass on the ground, put some roots down, because

970
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,840
Speaker 1: he's so fucking insane about it. Like he doesn't have

971
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: furniture in his house. He doesn't have furniture. Val Kilmer

972
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: shows up after he's gotten kicked out of his own

973
00:56:56,560 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 1: house by Ashley Judd. He's lying on the fucking floor

974
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: or taking a map. Yeah, I listen. If I went

975
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: to your house when to visit you in Minneapolis and

976
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 1: you didn't have anywhere for me to sleep, I'd be like,

977
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 1: my friend is fucked up, dude.

978
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 2: Like, oh yes, you would be like you would think

979
00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:24,280
Speaker 2: I'm Christian Bale and American psycho or something. Okay, spoiler

980
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:26,760
Speaker 2: alert for the ending here. I do think, not that

981
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 2: this is a weakness, but it does make me kind

982
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 2: of like question why he did what he did. So

983
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:39,320
Speaker 2: the end of the movie is essentially Robert de Niro,

984
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,000
Speaker 2: not everyone in his crew, but Robert de Niro gets

985
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 2: away and he has the money he did it. He

986
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:47,800
Speaker 2: got away and he's about to get on a plane,

987
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,480
Speaker 2: but he finds out at the last second that Wayne grow,

988
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 2: the guy who sold him and his crew out, is

989
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:59,320
Speaker 2: hold up at this hotel. And this is sort of

990
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 2: bait that al Pacino has dangled, hoping he would take it.

991
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 2: But it's sort of confusing why he He's such a

992
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: professional and he's showed so many times before that he's

993
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 2: willing to like cut everything off just for the score,

994
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,919
Speaker 2: you know, and yet he goes after this guy and

995
00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 2: kills him and that is eventually his downfall, and he's

996
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 2: not doing that. I think it would have made sense

997
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 2: if he ended up doing something in order to be

998
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 2: with Edie and that got him killed. It doesn't make

999
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 2: sense sort of from a story point of view, why

1000
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 2: he did that or why that got him killed. Does

1001
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 2: that make sense what I'm saying, Like, it's like I

1002
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: feel like he would have been more professional and just

1003
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,120
Speaker 2: walked away from that situation. He was so good about

1004
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 2: walking away. Why couldn't you walk away from this one?

1005
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 1: Well, because the whole movie is about guys who just

1006
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:54,920
Speaker 1: can't help it. They got to sabotage their own happiness

1007
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,320
Speaker 1: in order to get revenge or get their thing, And

1008
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: it's like that's what it makes it so Shakespearean and

1009
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: so kind of Greek tragedy. Like, but I want to

1010
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 1: put a pin in this for a brief moment. I

1011
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: want to go back two fucking steps. Yes, why is

1012
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: this bitch going to New Zealand with this guy?

1013
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 2: Yes?

1014
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: Why did Edie?

1015
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,800
Speaker 2: She finds out, like the night before she's to leave

1016
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 2: New Zealand that hey, I am not a metal salesman.

1017
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 2: I am actually a murderous criminal. And you know, like

1018
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,320
Speaker 2: all those hundreds of people that are dead in downtown LA,

1019
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 2: that was me. Let's go to New Zealand. And she's

1020
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: mad at first, Oh yeah, but she forgives it, seems,

1021
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 2: and is willing to go to New Zealand.

1022
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: This is some fucking looking for mister goodbar shit. I

1023
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:55,800
Speaker 1: can't even tell you cause I'm like, Okay, she's pissed

1024
00:59:55,880 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 1: on the on a cliff by the way, like they're

1025
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 1: having a conversation in the dark on the side of

1026
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 1: a mountain about this guy being a violent, disturbing criminal,

1027
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,960
Speaker 1: and she's just like, oh, I'm so pissed at him,

1028
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 1: I can't believe it.

1029
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 2: Don't kiss me.

1030
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:12,480
Speaker 1: I'm mad, God, I thought you were a metal salesman.

1031
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: What the fuck I'm like, first of all, I would

1032
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:18,600
Speaker 1: never see that motherfucker in the nighttime. I'm I'm scared

1033
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: of him. I'm officially scared of him. But apparently she's

1034
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,400
Speaker 1: got like no street smarts whatsoever. She's like, Okay, fine,

1035
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 1: I guess I accept that you're a horrible, violent criminal

1036
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,760
Speaker 1: who's been a jail and let's hug it out or whatever.

1037
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 2: I killed multiple people today.

1038
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 1: Today in the same day that we're having this conversation.

1039
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: And then like, so there's that where I just was like, Okay,

1040
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: she accepted this shit real fast, which I just very

1041
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: much believe is fandango maloney malurky. Okay, but I get

1042
01:00:55,720 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 1: that you have to like move this fucking story along

1043
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:02,600
Speaker 1: or whatever. Then he's like, baby, I got a run,

1044
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 1: Like I gotta run. John Voight is setting us up.

1045
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: He's gonna put us on a plane in New Zealand.

1046
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: Are you coming or not? And she's like, listen, maybe

1047
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 1: her job at the architectural bookstore ain't all that, and

1048
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: maybe she can do graphic design from anywhere, she can

1049
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: work from home from anywhere making her CD covers, But

1050
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: there is no fucking way in hell I believe that

1051
01:01:29,840 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: she's going to New Zealand with this guy. Even if

1052
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: she was scared of him, Well, she's clearly not. But

1053
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, this is so insane to me. I'm like,

1054
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: there's no way she just met the guy. She literally

1055
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 1: just met the guy.

1056
01:01:43,360 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 2: It ended up being okay for her. I think, I hope.

1057
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: I want to get back though to your point, your

1058
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 1: original point about yes, whether or not it sucks for

1059
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,640
Speaker 1: the plot line that he I guess.

1060
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 2: I'm just kind of like this doesn't fall in either

1061
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 2: camp of him being professional or him following his him

1062
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 2: being weakened by his emotional relationship with a woman. Yes,

1063
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 2: you know, it's sort of this in between. I'm just like,

1064
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 2: I just don't. I don't know. I was like, that

1065
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 2: goes against everything he's done in this movie up to

1066
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 2: this point. But it does make sense in terms of,

1067
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 2: like he can't quit the job.

1068
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 1: Sure. I mean, if I was him, I've been. I

1069
01:02:26,040 --> 01:02:27,680
Speaker 1: was on the phone with John Voyd. He's like, guess what,

1070
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 1: You're home free, baby. Here's all your money, here's your flight,

1071
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 1: here's your girlfriend. All you gotta do is drive to

1072
01:02:33,040 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: Lax and you're and you're gone, even if in a

1073
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: moment's notice, somebody had been like, hey, remember that asshole

1074
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: that you hired who ended up being a Nazi scumbag

1075
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: who killed a bunch of people and sold you out.

1076
01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:50,680
Speaker 1: He's just like hanging out at a hotel by the airport.

1077
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 2: On the way on the way, right next to Elix,

1078
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:53,959
Speaker 2: actually wearing the.

1079
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: Fluffy robe and slippers that they give you. What are

1080
01:02:57,600 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: you gonna do about it? I would be like, you

1081
01:03:00,240 --> 01:03:03,240
Speaker 1: know what, maybe somebody else will handle it. Maybe, like

1082
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: even though it's terrifying that he might like spill some

1083
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: information and like get caught or whatever. I'd be like,

1084
01:03:11,920 --> 01:03:14,400
Speaker 1: somebody will also kill him. Maybe ve'll kill them or

1085
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,280
Speaker 1: will kill him. Somebody else will will handle them, or

1086
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: he'll just be such a fucking dumb ass go back

1087
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:22,280
Speaker 1: to jail or get himself killed. Like, well, what is

1088
01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 1: he gonna what is he gonna spill too? Write?

1089
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,360
Speaker 2: Actually, Robert de Niro stole that money. They were like, yeah,

1090
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 2: no shit, we were just shooting at each other.

1091
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:35,120
Speaker 1: So I'm saying, like, the effort is not worth the

1092
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 1: reward in that way, the juice is not worth the squeak. Absolutely.

1093
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 1: I love that phrase, by the way, I say it

1094
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 1: a lot.

1095
01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:53,280
Speaker 2: But you know what, the face off between Pacino and

1096
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 2: you know when they when Pacino and de Niro at

1097
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 2: the end, when they're like holding hands, I got a

1098
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 2: little give me a break, who I felt a little thing.

1099
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: You'd have to be a stone to not feel your feelings.

1100
01:04:07,880 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: First of all, that sequence is so stressful. It is

1101
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 1: because you really have no idea. You have no idea,

1102
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:18,320
Speaker 1: and it's pretty much silent, does not even ambient sounds

1103
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: happening in the background except for like planes taking off.

1104
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 2: Who do you think was better prepared fitness wise to

1105
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:30,920
Speaker 2: run across that field? Robert de Niro or Al Pacino?

1106
01:04:35,240 --> 01:04:37,520
Speaker 1: Wow, what a question.

1107
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: I have a definitive answer. There's a clear answer for me,

1108
01:04:42,680 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 2: there's a clear answer.

1109
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 1: I feel like Pacino was not tactically dressed as well.

1110
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:55,000
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, Like he's probably wearing like dress shoes from

1111
01:04:55,120 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 1: floor shime or something, and he's just not like he's

1112
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 1: not dressed to be running through a old Yeah, And

1113
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: I feel like so I feel like in that way,

1114
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 1: de Niro is better suited for that.

1115
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 2: Well, if we look at the history of their roles,

1116
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 2: you know, de Niro gained a bunch of weight for

1117
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 2: Raging Bull, and then he got in super good shape

1118
01:05:16,160 --> 01:05:18,480
Speaker 2: to be in Raging Bull. He has a history of

1119
01:05:18,520 --> 01:05:22,560
Speaker 2: body transformation, bringing him you know, his uh you know

1120
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 2: body to a film in a certain way, and I

1121
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:28,360
Speaker 2: don't think Pacino has that history. Also, Pacina just seems

1122
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 2: like more of a madman and was like smoking packs

1123
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:35,520
Speaker 2: of cigarettes while filming this movie. It seemed like, So,

1124
01:05:35,680 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 2: I just feel like, I just think those running sequences

1125
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:40,600
Speaker 2: would have almost killed al Pacinos.

1126
01:05:40,600 --> 01:05:44,360
Speaker 1: What I'm saying, I mean, how old were they? Actually

1127
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:48,040
Speaker 1: probably in their forties, older than that? Oh do you think? So,

1128
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: let's let's see do the math.

1129
01:05:50,560 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 2: Al Pacino is fifty five, Holy shit, really yeah at

1130
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 2: the time of this movie, and Robert de Niro was

1131
01:05:58,600 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 2: fifty two. And it should be said that both of

1132
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 2: these men, al Pacino and Robert de Niro, who are

1133
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:09,800
Speaker 2: respectively eighty five and eighty one years old, I believe,

1134
01:06:09,920 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 2: have newborn children.

1135
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: Oh God, don't even get me started. I was like,

1136
01:06:16,720 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 1: can the Annabelle Doll haunt those guys so that they

1137
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: never have any more kids?

1138
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,400
Speaker 2: Can the annabel Doll put a curse on these old

1139
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:29,760
Speaker 2: man penises so that they stop start shooting blanks? For

1140
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,320
Speaker 2: God's sake? What the fuck?

1141
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 1: Get come on, get a fucking sex. Just put a

1142
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:39,760
Speaker 1: jack bag of frozen peas on it and call it

1143
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:44,880
Speaker 1: a day. This is insane, guys, this is insane. It's disgusting.

1144
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:46,680
Speaker 3: Is there?

1145
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:48,280
Speaker 2: We really gotta move on?

1146
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:54,160
Speaker 1: We have I'm sorry, Jesus, we have really squeezed the

1147
01:06:54,200 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: sponge out of yes.

1148
01:06:55,920 --> 01:06:59,520
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. Well, let's move on to our a

1149
01:06:59,600 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 2: different type of conversation, one with the wonderful Jamie Loftus,

1150
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 2: where we talk about another insane movie, Jesus Christ Superstar. Okay, everybody,

1151
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:23,120
Speaker 2: this is another installment of my area of Expertise segment.

1152
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,360
Speaker 2: We bring in an expert to talk about wealth. They're

1153
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:30,520
Speaker 2: area of expertise, and today we have another expert. It's

1154
01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 2: Jamie loftis the co host of the podcast The Bechdel

1155
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,640
Speaker 2: Cast with Caitlin Dorante. She also hosted the short series

1156
01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:40,440
Speaker 2: which I Really Loved, My Year in Mensa, that chronicles

1157
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 2: the events surrounding her applying to joining Mensa. She's the

1158
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:47,800
Speaker 2: author of Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about Hot Dogs. Jamie,

1159
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:50,400
Speaker 2: thank you so much for being here today.

1160
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be here talking about one of.

1161
01:07:55,280 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 2: Your area of expertise, which is.

1162
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:00,800
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ Superstar seventy.

1163
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:05,760
Speaker 2: Three wonderful Now, Jamie, I have a very deep personal

1164
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 2: relationship with this movie too. I would say it might

1165
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 2: be the movie I've seen the most in my lifetime.

1166
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 3: Really wow.

1167
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I went to Catholic school and we watched it

1168
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 2: every single year, at least once a year. But I

1169
01:08:17,280 --> 01:08:20,839
Speaker 2: want to hear about your relationship with Jesus Christ Superstar,

1170
01:08:20,960 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 2: how it came into your life, and how it became

1171
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 2: I guess your area of expertise.

1172
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 5: That's so fascinating to me because as I was rewatching

1173
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:32,559
Speaker 5: this movie. I watched this movie, we bounced around, We

1174
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 5: sampled a lot of religions. When I was my parents

1175
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:41,479
Speaker 5: were traumatized Catholics, so I was like a baptized Catholic.

1176
01:08:42,560 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 5: But we went to we went to a Wiccan church

1177
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,680
Speaker 5: for a while. We but we sort of ended up

1178
01:08:49,720 --> 01:08:55,679
Speaker 5: settling at this congregational church that was at the time.

1179
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 5: I hoped this isn't still true, but at the time

1180
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:03,120
Speaker 5: it was the only queer friendly Christian church in my

1181
01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:07,120
Speaker 5: town and it was a pretty I mean, I thought

1182
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 5: it was boring because it was church, but it wasn't

1183
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:12,960
Speaker 5: traumatic outside of being boring.

1184
01:09:13,000 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 1: But this was.

1185
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,680
Speaker 5: It was a very like substitute teacher energy going on

1186
01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:19,840
Speaker 5: at the Sunday School. It was not intense, it was

1187
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 5: not scary, and it was a lot of Jesus Christ

1188
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:25,320
Speaker 5: Superstar on VHS, a lot of the Prince of Egypt

1189
01:09:25,360 --> 01:09:27,080
Speaker 5: on VHS, a lot of veggietails.

1190
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 3: They were just like they put on a.

1191
01:09:29,640 --> 01:09:32,240
Speaker 5: Tape and left the room and they were like, hopefully

1192
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 5: you grow closer to God today.

1193
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: Whatever.

1194
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 3: But I was.

1195
01:09:35,640 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 5: My mom was I think like ten when Jesus Christ

1196
01:09:39,960 --> 01:09:44,640
Speaker 5: Superstar came out, and she was obsessed and she and

1197
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 5: was not religious, but was really excited to share it

1198
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 5: with me. We listened to the soundtrack a lot and

1199
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:53,800
Speaker 5: then I saw it for the first time in Sunday.

1200
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 3: School, probably when I was like nine or ten. And

1201
01:09:57,520 --> 01:09:59,719
Speaker 3: the opening it's not the opening shop.

1202
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:02,800
Speaker 5: But like that slow push in on Carl Anderson in

1203
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:07,320
Speaker 5: the orange outfit. I was like, gone done. I was

1204
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 5: obsessed with Carl Anderson. As a kid, I was like

1205
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:13,120
Speaker 5: on Team Judas.

1206
01:10:12,760 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 3: Which is like so like this movie.

1207
01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 2: It is interesting. The main character of Jesus Christ Superstar

1208
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,840
Speaker 2: is Judas essentially, you know.

1209
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 5: In every way like and I think you know Ted

1210
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:27,320
Speaker 5: Neely does a great job and him going get out

1211
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 5: is like still one of my favorite moments in all

1212
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:34,719
Speaker 5: of cinematic history. But like Carl Anderson just takes the show.

1213
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 5: We see Judas get resurrected and not Jesus like I

1214
01:10:39,120 --> 01:10:42,800
Speaker 5: at the time I was, I was weirdly, I don't

1215
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 5: think this movie really made me more interested in religion.

1216
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 5: It made me more interested in my religion as a

1217
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:52,760
Speaker 5: middle schooler, which is musical theater.

1218
01:10:53,520 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, yeah, I wanted to ask you

1219
01:10:56,600 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: right off the bat, what is your relationship to Andrew

1220
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:02,200
Speaker 1: Lloyd Webber if you have one?

1221
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:06,360
Speaker 5: So it's it's certainly become complicated over the years. He's

1222
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 5: a bad man. But my mom was a huge Andrew

1223
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:15,080
Speaker 5: lew weberhead. It was Jesus Christ superstar.

1224
01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 3: And she was also really into Phantom.

1225
01:11:17,640 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: I remember like one of them me too.

1226
01:11:19,960 --> 01:11:24,200
Speaker 5: Like one of the huge like revelations of my childhood

1227
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 5: was realizing that Phantom and the Hunchback of Notre Dame

1228
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 5: have all the same story beats, and so that I

1229
01:11:31,439 --> 01:11:35,040
Speaker 5: could take my Hunchback of Notre Dame dolls and have

1230
01:11:35,200 --> 01:11:37,880
Speaker 5: my mom turn on the Phantom soundtrack and just act

1231
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:38,800
Speaker 5: out the whole thing.

1232
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:42,240
Speaker 3: And that was like my favorite indoor kid activity.

1233
01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 2: You could recast the hunchback figures to play it in

1234
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:48,719
Speaker 2: Phantom of the Operation.

1235
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah.

1236
01:11:50,200 --> 01:11:55,280
Speaker 5: I mean the Phantom is quasimotive, Christine is Azrarelda, and.

1237
01:11:55,520 --> 01:12:00,000
Speaker 3: The Kevin Klein guy is the Patrick Wilson guy.

1238
01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:04,600
Speaker 2: Millie, what was it? What was your impression as the

1239
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 2: movie started, like as a person who just watches for

1240
01:12:08,360 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 2: the first time.

1241
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:11,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to preface all of this by saying,

1242
01:12:11,680 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 1: I think I think you guys have a lot in

1243
01:12:14,680 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: common in terms of the musical theater elements and the

1244
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: and the Jesus Christ Superstar elements. I this is a

1245
01:12:20,200 --> 01:12:23,280
Speaker 1: first I watched for me, so and to be honest, like,

1246
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:29,320
Speaker 1: I do not know a ton about theater. I saw

1247
01:12:30,520 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 1: Cats the movie before seeing Cats another, And I gotta

1248
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: be honest, like, I've always thought that Andrew Lloyd Webber

1249
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,840
Speaker 1: was kind of ridiculous and like like a lot of

1250
01:12:43,880 --> 01:12:47,840
Speaker 1: his you know, is like I don't know his pumpit circumstance, Right,

1251
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 1: So I came out of this with totally fresh eyes,

1252
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:54,960
Speaker 1: and I gotta say, like, I this shit blew my

1253
01:12:55,040 --> 01:12:58,439
Speaker 1: fucking mind. Like I was like, first of all. I

1254
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,599
Speaker 1: was literally googling because I'm also I grew up Catholic too,

1255
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:03,840
Speaker 1: but I didn't go to Catholic school or anything like that.

1256
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:07,200
Speaker 1: I'm a terrible Catholic when it comes to like knowledge,

1257
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:11,360
Speaker 1: Like I was looking up, Oh, what did happen at

1258
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:15,200
Speaker 1: the Crucifixion? Do I know what? Who was at the

1259
01:13:15,240 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 1: Last I literally googled who was at the Last Supper? Yeah,

1260
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:19,960
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize, Oh, it was just the Apostles.

1261
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,920
Speaker 1: I was like thinking it was just random people. Like

1262
01:13:21,960 --> 01:13:24,320
Speaker 1: I couldn't even remember who was at the Last Supper.

1263
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 1: So I was literally googling all the historical facts, but

1264
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: that it didn't even really matter because this thing is

1265
01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 1: an entire show, like it is from start to finish,

1266
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:37,439
Speaker 1: just like this huge production.

1267
01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:43,840
Speaker 3: It's Oh, I'm so glad you like it. So it's

1268
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:47,600
Speaker 3: like and it also is like, I mean, I don't know.

1269
01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:49,640
Speaker 5: I was I remember being like, Mom, is this what

1270
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 5: the seventies is? And she's like kind of kind of

1271
01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:57,120
Speaker 5: like the whole like just so many great line reads

1272
01:13:57,240 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 5: that I was showing it to my fiance for the

1273
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 5: first time, and he also was not prepared for the

1274
01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:07,120
Speaker 5: raw power of Jesus Christ superstar of just like.

1275
01:14:07,240 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 3: One thing I'll say for him, Jesus is cool. You're like,

1276
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,040
Speaker 3: what a weird thing to do.

1277
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 2: That in that scene where it's like we need a

1278
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,720
Speaker 2: more permanent solution to all problem. And I feel like

1279
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,839
Speaker 2: I say that to my wife and she has no idea,

1280
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,200
Speaker 2: like what I need to I need to show it

1281
01:14:26,240 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 2: to her so she can fully understand who I am

1282
01:14:29,200 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 2: as a person as well.

1283
01:14:30,600 --> 01:14:36,120
Speaker 5: So much choreography, like I just and and von Ellman

1284
01:14:36,360 --> 01:14:39,880
Speaker 5: as Mary is so like her.

1285
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:43,439
Speaker 3: Both of her songs make me cry.

1286
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: Yeah beautiful.

1287
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:50,240
Speaker 2: The most famous one I think is the how do

1288
01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 2: how do I love?

1289
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 3: I don't know how to love him?

1290
01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:54,720
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1291
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, so good, Oh my gosh, so good. Do you

1292
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:03,920
Speaker 2: have a Is there like a song or scene that

1293
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,800
Speaker 2: like stands out particularly for you?

1294
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: Oh?

1295
01:15:08,120 --> 01:15:11,919
Speaker 5: I mean any of the Judas songs heaven on their minds?

1296
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:12,559
Speaker 3: I do.

1297
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,840
Speaker 5: I think I listened to it at least once a week,

1298
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 5: like just in my life.

1299
01:15:16,560 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 3: It puts me in a great mood.

1300
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 5: I don't mean, I do really appreciate that because I

1301
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:27,639
Speaker 5: think Andrews like Weber, He's also like this, like you know, Nepoie,

1302
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:30,000
Speaker 5: like grew up with a shitload of money, so he

1303
01:15:30,080 --> 01:15:31,960
Speaker 5: was able to get this production off the ground in

1304
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:35,719
Speaker 5: his early twenties. And he blatantly rips off the Batman

1305
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:38,960
Speaker 5: theme like in the it's so weird in a.

1306
01:15:39,000 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 1: Scene like.

1307
01:15:43,120 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't I never put that together, but I

1308
01:15:46,320 --> 01:15:46,960
Speaker 2: hear it now.

1309
01:15:47,280 --> 01:15:51,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, I love Heaven on their Minds and

1310
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,680
Speaker 5: Superstar are my favorite. Cad the outfit Judas. I think

1311
01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 5: the movie is on Judas's side because, like, look at

1312
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 5: the outfit he gets to wear at the end of

1313
01:15:59,240 --> 01:15:59,639
Speaker 5: the movie.

1314
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,439
Speaker 3: It's so much better to Jesus is totally.

1315
01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:03,360
Speaker 1: It's funny.

1316
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:06,960
Speaker 2: My mom like she was like, oh Judas's voice that act,

1317
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:09,880
Speaker 2: he's incredible. He is like the Star. And she was like,

1318
01:16:10,120 --> 01:16:12,160
Speaker 2: the guy who plays Jesus, I don't like his voice.

1319
01:16:12,160 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 2: Like my mom was like very anti Jesus in this movie.

1320
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 5: You know.

1321
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 1: It's interesting about Carl Anderson. I love that you love

1322
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:22,360
Speaker 1: him so much because I there was a moment when

1323
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 1: I because I had no reference for this at all,

1324
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:25,080
Speaker 1: Like I was just I don't even know.

1325
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 2: Who's in it, who plays Jesus.

1326
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:29,600
Speaker 1: So when I looked at the castles and I was like,

1327
01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 1: Carl Anderson, how do I know that name. For me,

1328
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: this is random as shit, So just walk with me here.

1329
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I remember Carl Anderson because

1330
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:44,640
Speaker 1: he did his duet with this woman, Gloria Loring, and

1331
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:47,280
Speaker 1: they did this song called Friends and Lovers that was

1332
01:16:47,439 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 1: on Days of Our Lives, the soap opera Days of

1333
01:16:50,200 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 1: Our Lives, and it was this like huge song, like

1334
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:57,160
Speaker 1: I think they played it at like my dances, like

1335
01:16:57,280 --> 01:16:59,599
Speaker 1: they would play it at his like school dances and stuff,

1336
01:16:59,600 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 1: and it was like we used to play like on

1337
01:17:01,960 --> 01:17:04,200
Speaker 1: the radio constantly, Like sometimes you'll hear it at the

1338
01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:07,080
Speaker 1: drug store. Now, if you listen to it, you'll be like, oh,

1339
01:17:07,240 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 1: because it kind of sounds like a Disney duet or something.

1340
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 1: It's huge. It sounds huge. But that's how I know

1341
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,439
Speaker 1: Carl Anderson is from Days of Our Lives.

1342
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:16,160
Speaker 3: Basically wild I.

1343
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,080
Speaker 1: Know, and so I couldn't believe it was him. I

1344
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, it's that guy. It's amazing.

1345
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 1: It is fine.

1346
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:23,920
Speaker 2: I don't like really know. The only person I know

1347
01:17:24,439 --> 01:17:26,679
Speaker 2: in this movie that I like know he isn't something

1348
01:17:26,720 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 2: else is the guy who plays King herod Zero must Yeah,

1349
01:17:33,400 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 2: Zero Miste's son, who plays the principal and Billy Madison,

1350
01:17:37,520 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 2: who's like in love with Billy, and it's like, that's

1351
01:17:40,360 --> 01:17:43,000
Speaker 2: like the only other actor that I from this that

1352
01:17:43,040 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 2: I've seen elsewhere.

1353
01:17:44,439 --> 01:17:48,280
Speaker 5: God, I didn't realize cause I watched half of it

1354
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 5: and then it was edited in iMovie, so I had

1355
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:52,599
Speaker 5: to turn it off. But there was like it was

1356
01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 5: on Amazon Prime. It was I think made by like

1357
01:17:55,280 --> 01:18:01,160
Speaker 5: Ted Neely's friend, like less than ten years ago, the

1358
01:18:01,200 --> 01:18:04,519
Speaker 5: remaining living cast meeting up and talking about the production,

1359
01:18:05,640 --> 01:18:08,080
Speaker 5: and it was interesting, but it was it was really

1360
01:18:08,240 --> 01:18:09,240
Speaker 5: edited in iMovie.

1361
01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 3: The audio is so bad.

1362
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:13,880
Speaker 5: But I didn't realize that like Ted Neely and Carl

1363
01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:18,120
Speaker 5: Anderson were the understudies, like they were just Broadway understudies,

1364
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:21,080
Speaker 5: because I mean, and there is the whole I mean.

1365
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:23,920
Speaker 5: When I started thinking about this movie critically, I had

1366
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 5: to make myself stop because you're like white, you know,

1367
01:18:27,240 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 5: white Jesus black Judas, that the optics are bad, but

1368
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 5: the I guess the original Broadway Judas was Ben Vereen

1369
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 5: and you're like, oh, that was probably really good. And

1370
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:45,880
Speaker 5: then Vone Elleman was the original Mary. I think she's

1371
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 5: the only like.

1372
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:50,679
Speaker 3: Broadway actual carryover to the movie.

1373
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:51,679
Speaker 2: I hope.

1374
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:53,400
Speaker 3: Yet it's like we don't really know. And I don't

1375
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:54,960
Speaker 3: feel like any of them went on.

1376
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:59,040
Speaker 5: To like have the like huge careers afterwards. I think

1377
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:01,559
Speaker 5: they're almost fa this for being in this movie.

1378
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think Yvonne Ellman, she had one, she had

1379
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 1: one popular song. It was I think it was in

1380
01:19:07,960 --> 01:19:10,640
Speaker 1: Saturday Night Fever, but it was like, yes, if I

1381
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 1: can't have you at Alan, Oh, yeah, that's the That's

1382
01:19:15,280 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: how I even know her name.

1383
01:19:16,720 --> 01:19:17,800
Speaker 2: But I didn't even know that.

1384
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,240
Speaker 1: Again, like random songs and I'm like, oh, these people

1385
01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:22,639
Speaker 1: are in Jesus Christ Superstar.

1386
01:19:22,840 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 3: What the hell? Like they're people of the seventies, I

1387
01:19:25,600 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 3: know well.

1388
01:19:26,600 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 1: And also I want to ask you about the seventiesness

1389
01:19:28,800 --> 01:19:30,679
Speaker 1: of it, because you were talking to you, You're saying

1390
01:19:30,680 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 1: about how your mom, You're asking your mom what was it?

1391
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:32,920
Speaker 5: Like?

1392
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:39,280
Speaker 1: I feel like this movie really took advantage of the seventies,

1393
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: like early seventies like hippie lifestyle. We're like everybody in

1394
01:19:44,479 --> 01:19:49,200
Speaker 1: the movie is kind of sweaty and gross but kind

1395
01:19:49,280 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 1: of hot and like they're dirty hippie hot. Yeah, in

1396
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:54,880
Speaker 1: like in a very seventies kind of way.

1397
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 2: They don't let people be like that in movies anymore.

1398
01:19:57,360 --> 01:19:57,760
Speaker 2: The teeth.

1399
01:19:58,080 --> 01:20:02,479
Speaker 1: People are just really fucked u like bad skin. Some

1400
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: of them had bad skin. And I was like, this

1401
01:20:05,720 --> 01:20:08,439
Speaker 1: is like a thing that they don't allow famous people

1402
01:20:08,560 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 1: to be anymore.

1403
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 2: It's true.

1404
01:20:10,560 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 3: One thing I didn't I didn't have time. There's I

1405
01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 3: don't know. When I was like getting ready for this,

1406
01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, I have.

1407
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,800
Speaker 5: So many more questions, but like I'm curious, I have

1408
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,479
Speaker 5: no idea, but like that because I'm pretty sure God's

1409
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:25,320
Speaker 5: Spell came out basically at the exact same time as

1410
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:28,759
Speaker 5: Jesus Christ Superstar in the early seventies, and like both

1411
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 5: launched really because that was like by Stephen Schwartz. Yeah,

1412
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:36,719
Speaker 5: And I'm like, what was it about the early seventies

1413
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:40,600
Speaker 5: that made like these hippie Jesus musicals? Like what what

1414
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:42,719
Speaker 5: was in the water that that was happening?

1415
01:20:43,120 --> 01:20:45,800
Speaker 2: That is interesting and it's funny because I always growing

1416
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 2: up was like, oh, God's Spell is like the ripoff

1417
01:20:50,560 --> 01:20:55,480
Speaker 2: of Jesus Christ Superstar. But I think God's Spell was first.

1418
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,080
Speaker 5: And so I need to I feel like there's your

1419
01:20:58,280 --> 01:21:01,759
Speaker 5: because my my aunt and uncle they were Godspell family,

1420
01:21:01,800 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 5: where Jesus Christ Superstar family.

1421
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,720
Speaker 2: And Coke and PEPSI Yeah, I had no, I mean,

1422
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 2: I need It's fine.

1423
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:10,840
Speaker 3: I don't know. I still to this day, I'm like

1424
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:12,000
Speaker 3: gospel's trash.

1425
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 2: I haven't. I haven't even I don't. I don't think

1426
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:15,519
Speaker 2: I've even seen it.

1427
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 3: My loyalties lie with jac Superstar.

1428
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,679
Speaker 2: So did you Jamie growing up? You know you're watching

1429
01:21:21,760 --> 01:21:24,519
Speaker 2: this movie. They're wheeling it in on a you know,

1430
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:27,320
Speaker 2: Sunday school to watch it. Were you were and it?

1431
01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:31,000
Speaker 2: Were you alone in your fascination with Jesus Christ Superstar

1432
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:33,040
Speaker 2: or did you, like you any of your friends have

1433
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:37,400
Speaker 2: any like particular love for this or was this sort

1434
01:21:37,439 --> 01:21:40,840
Speaker 2: of you and your mom fascination?

1435
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah? Like it Jesus Christ.

1436
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:44,200
Speaker 3: Like many of my passions.

1437
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:47,160
Speaker 5: I was no one in my peer group to share

1438
01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:50,720
Speaker 5: my enthusiasm for Jesus Christ Superstar.

1439
01:21:51,320 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 3: It was nice.

1440
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 5: It was a nice thing to bond with my mom

1441
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:55,799
Speaker 5: over and just musical theater with my mom in general.

1442
01:21:57,560 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 5: And I had plenty of you know, friends in l

1443
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:04,120
Speaker 5: Entry into middle school that were really into musical theater,

1444
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:08,640
Speaker 5: but I couldn't get anyone into this particular one. It

1445
01:22:08,840 --> 01:22:11,960
Speaker 5: was like, I feel like I was in middle school

1446
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:16,120
Speaker 5: and the Chris Columbus rent adaptation came out and I

1447
01:22:16,439 --> 01:22:18,760
Speaker 5: made a lot of friends around that. The time I

1448
01:22:18,840 --> 01:22:22,760
Speaker 5: met my college roommate at a local production of Rent,

1449
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:26,519
Speaker 5: when I was like, really twelve, Yeah that's so funny,

1450
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 5: but yeah.

1451
01:22:27,800 --> 01:22:30,040
Speaker 3: Jay Z's Superstar. I get why it's a hard cell.

1452
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,160
Speaker 5: It's hard to get someone to sit down and watch

1453
01:22:32,200 --> 01:22:34,280
Speaker 5: it with you because it sounds like it's gonna be boring.

1454
01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:38,680
Speaker 1: Uh, yeah, it's not boring. I'm just gonna throw that

1455
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:41,040
Speaker 1: out there. I mean, as much as I am so

1456
01:22:41,360 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 1: uneducated about anything involving Catholicism, despite the fact that I'm Catholic,

1457
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:50,639
Speaker 1: I was like riveted. I mean, there are some truly

1458
01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 1: insane moments. There's it feels a little gay am I

1459
01:22:57,960 --> 01:23:01,479
Speaker 1: with the guys and the harnesses. I don't even know

1460
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:02,960
Speaker 1: who that way, I don't even know who they were,

1461
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,840
Speaker 1: but it was it felt very like, I don't know,

1462
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 1: like leather Natty and the desert type of thing. No.

1463
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and then there felt like there was a gay

1464
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:21,799
Speaker 5: character right like King Herod is like so heavily queer coded.

1465
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:26,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, like it's I don't know why that choice was made.

1466
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:28,960
Speaker 3: I just know that I supported.

1467
01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:34,640
Speaker 5: The moment where like, oh my god, I used to

1468
01:23:34,800 --> 01:23:37,400
Speaker 5: like act this out and I would play both parts

1469
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:40,400
Speaker 5: in my room where the scene where Jesus and Judas

1470
01:23:40,439 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 5: are are feuding after uh and then Judas runs away

1471
01:23:45,160 --> 01:23:47,320
Speaker 5: with the sheep, and it's all very symbolic whenever, but

1472
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:51,599
Speaker 5: where they like touch each other's hands in this very

1473
01:23:51,680 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 5: particular way and like touch each other's faces, and it

1474
01:23:57,080 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 5: I was there.

1475
01:23:58,800 --> 01:23:59,800
Speaker 1: I was there with them.

1476
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:03,360
Speaker 3: It's what I It was like that scene.

1477
01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 5: And then there was some scene in the first Pirates

1478
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:09,200
Speaker 5: of the Caribbean movie between Jack Sparrow and Orlando Bloom

1479
01:24:09,280 --> 01:24:09,800
Speaker 5: where I was.

1480
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:15,040
Speaker 3: Like, they should kiss, like this movie wants you. I

1481
01:24:15,120 --> 01:24:17,960
Speaker 3: think this movie wants Judas and Jesus to kiss.

1482
01:24:19,720 --> 01:24:22,559
Speaker 2: Jamie, do you feel like you know you said musical

1483
01:24:22,640 --> 01:24:25,920
Speaker 2: theater was like a big part of your life as

1484
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 2: a young, younger person. Do you feel like it still

1485
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 2: is a big part of your life, And if so,

1486
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:35,280
Speaker 2: how does that come out in like the work you're producing.

1487
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:37,920
Speaker 2: Do you think it has any influence on you today?

1488
01:24:39,040 --> 01:24:40,240
Speaker 3: I wish it had more.

1489
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:46,040
Speaker 5: I just don't have any musical talent myself, and so

1490
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:50,520
Speaker 5: I feel like I in musical theater, I guess consistently

1491
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:55,720
Speaker 5: has been one of the main like escape mechanisms for me,

1492
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:57,720
Speaker 5: and I think part of it I kind of love

1493
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,680
Speaker 5: that I have. I couldn't be a ambitious in that

1494
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:05,040
Speaker 5: department if I wanted to be. I can't write lyrics.

1495
01:25:05,439 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 5: I can barely function in at a karaoke night. But

1496
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:13,599
Speaker 5: I love musical theater and it's just it's it still

1497
01:25:13,720 --> 01:25:17,680
Speaker 5: feels just like a really and it's just nice. I

1498
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:21,479
Speaker 5: don't know, like hanging out with uh because I wasn't

1499
01:25:21,520 --> 01:25:24,519
Speaker 5: super into musical theater in college because I went to

1500
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:26,479
Speaker 5: an art school and I do think there's such a

1501
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:30,680
Speaker 5: thing as being too into it. Oh and so for

1502
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:32,800
Speaker 5: a couple of years, I was like, we're gonna put

1503
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,320
Speaker 5: this interest on the back burner because I actually don't

1504
01:25:35,360 --> 01:25:38,880
Speaker 5: want to talk about it for like seven hours a day.

1505
01:25:40,720 --> 01:25:43,600
Speaker 5: But then later on like kind of came back to it,

1506
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:48,040
Speaker 5: and yeah, I still I love. I love the amount

1507
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:51,240
Speaker 5: of sincerity that it requires to do musical theater well,

1508
01:25:51,400 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 5: and I love the amount of I mean, like in

1509
01:25:54,040 --> 01:25:56,200
Speaker 5: this music is such a good example of like what

1510
01:25:56,439 --> 01:26:01,120
Speaker 5: a big weird fucking swing at something, and it like

1511
01:26:01,600 --> 01:26:04,800
Speaker 5: doesn't work unless everyone is fully committed to this big

1512
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:08,320
Speaker 5: weird thing. And if that's I mean, that's as close

1513
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:11,000
Speaker 5: as I like. I always want to try to take

1514
01:26:11,040 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 5: swings like that, and what I do, I can't do

1515
01:26:13,600 --> 01:26:16,479
Speaker 5: it in song. But I just love how committed everyone

1516
01:26:16,640 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 5: is to Jesus in the Desert.

1517
01:26:18,280 --> 01:26:20,720
Speaker 2: Well, Jamie, thank you so much for being on the

1518
01:26:20,760 --> 01:26:24,560
Speaker 2: show to talk about Jesus Christ Superstar in the seventies.

1519
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:26,080
Speaker 2: Is there anything you'd like to plug.

1520
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, my my book Raw Dog, The Naked Truth about

1521
01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:35,080
Speaker 5: Hot Dogs is coming out in paperback, and I'll be

1522
01:26:35,520 --> 01:26:41,960
Speaker 5: on tour at an objectively random list of cities throughout

1523
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 5: the spring and summer. And so yeah, if you follow

1524
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,560
Speaker 5: me on Instagram, Oh my god, literally my instagram is

1525
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:49,680
Speaker 5: Jamie Christ Superstar.

1526
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:54,519
Speaker 3: Well I never got to say I love that that. Yeah,

1527
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,679
Speaker 3: this I'm not I'm not a fake fan.

1528
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:00,439
Speaker 5: So yeah, if you follow me and instig grab at

1529
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:03,240
Speaker 5: Jamiechrist Superstar of all my book tour dates are.

1530
01:27:03,200 --> 01:27:07,120
Speaker 2: There, fabulous. Well, thank you so much. And listen to

1531
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:09,320
Speaker 2: the Bechdel Cast Get Great, one of the best movie

1532
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,800
Speaker 2: podcasts out there. Thank you again, Jamie, really appreciate it.

1533
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:16,800
Speaker 3: Oh, thank you for talking to me about this. What

1534
01:27:16,960 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 3: a dream.

1535
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:31,759
Speaker 2: Alrighting, now is time for employees Picks, where we recommend

1536
01:27:31,800 --> 01:27:34,439
Speaker 2: a movie based on the conversation we had today, Mellly,

1537
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:34,960
Speaker 2: what do you get?

1538
01:27:36,479 --> 01:27:39,000
Speaker 1: Okay? So I know there's many different avenues that we

1539
01:27:39,080 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: can travel down for this episode. So I'm just gonna

1540
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:45,040
Speaker 1: go down the al Pacichi one because oh Nice talked

1541
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: about I'm going to recommend a movie from nineteen seventy one.

1542
01:27:49,560 --> 01:27:52,360
Speaker 1: It was directed by Jerry Schatzburg and it's called The

1543
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:54,000
Speaker 1: Panic in Needle Park.

1544
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:56,080
Speaker 2: Ooh, I've never seen it.

1545
01:27:56,360 --> 01:28:01,799
Speaker 1: It's a good one, very bleak. It's about heroin addiction.

1546
01:28:02,560 --> 01:28:06,720
Speaker 1: It stars it's him and Kitty Wynn who was in

1547
01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:11,679
Speaker 1: the Exorcist films, and it was actually co written by

1548
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:15,040
Speaker 1: Joan Didion and John Gregory Dunn.

1549
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, she wrote an essay about this.

1550
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely. So it's basically like a story of these

1551
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:25,519
Speaker 1: like two heroin addictive you know, young people in New

1552
01:28:25,600 --> 01:28:28,720
Speaker 1: York City. It's like really grim. They're you know, in

1553
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 1: a relationship, they're trying to keep the relationship together, but

1554
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:34,840
Speaker 1: it's really you know, it's obviously very difficult when you're

1555
01:28:35,200 --> 01:28:39,559
Speaker 1: in the throes of addiction. And the poster, now, the poster,

1556
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,600
Speaker 1: if you look it up, that poster to me was

1557
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,600
Speaker 1: something that was I used to like, stare at this

1558
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,080
Speaker 1: poster all the time because it's so evocative, Like it's

1559
01:28:48,080 --> 01:28:52,479
Speaker 1: basically like huge black letters. It says, God help Bobby

1560
01:28:52,520 --> 01:28:55,960
Speaker 1: and Helen. They're in love in Needle Park, and it's

1561
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:57,639
Speaker 1: like a black and white It just kind of looks

1562
01:28:57,680 --> 01:29:01,600
Speaker 1: like kind of tabloidy. It's very like but like to

1563
01:29:01,800 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 1: sell a movie, You're like, holy fuck, that's that does it?

1564
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 1: That makes me want to see a movie?

1565
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:08,200
Speaker 5: You know?

1566
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:10,479
Speaker 1: This is kind of dark. But I always told myself

1567
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:13,479
Speaker 1: that if I ever got married, I try to like

1568
01:29:13,680 --> 01:29:16,080
Speaker 1: do my wedding invitations to look like this poster.

1569
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:18,080
Speaker 2: That's good. That would be good.

1570
01:29:18,240 --> 01:29:21,240
Speaker 1: God help them, God help them, they're getting married, and

1571
01:29:21,280 --> 01:29:25,960
Speaker 1: it would be uh met me and like a nasty

1572
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:30,080
Speaker 1: knit cap I. Yeah, I this movie. If you're in

1573
01:29:30,320 --> 01:29:33,280
Speaker 1: for that kind of movie, like a really dark, gritty

1574
01:29:33,520 --> 01:29:37,799
Speaker 1: New York seventies drug film, it's for you. And al Pacino.

1575
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 1: I know that he's not supposed to look great in

1576
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: this movie, but he looks great. He's young, and he's

1577
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 1: in love, so love it. Yeah, that's my wreck. What

1578
01:29:51,120 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 1: about you?

1579
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 2: Awesome? I have two recommendations, and I'm picking two because

1580
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:58,439
Speaker 2: these are two movies. Because these are like both like

1581
01:29:58,680 --> 01:29:59,920
Speaker 2: children of Michael Mann.

1582
01:29:59,800 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 1: Movie, Oh I see, I see, Okay, Okay, that's.

1583
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:08,680
Speaker 2: Why I'm And neither are as good as Heat, but

1584
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:12,479
Speaker 2: I feel like they were both heavily influenced by Heat,

1585
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:18,080
Speaker 2: and they're they're fun. One movie I'm recommending is twenty

1586
01:30:18,160 --> 01:30:22,120
Speaker 2: twenty two's Ambulance with Jake Gillenhall. Did you ever see

1587
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:22,519
Speaker 2: this movie?

1588
01:30:22,720 --> 01:30:22,760
Speaker 1: No?

1589
01:30:22,920 --> 01:30:27,040
Speaker 2: I hadn't riten by Michael Bay and it is wild

1590
01:30:27,680 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 2: and it's about a bank heist gone wrong and they

1591
01:30:31,640 --> 01:30:38,280
Speaker 2: escape in a ambulance, so it's obviously incredibly inspired by Heat,

1592
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:43,000
Speaker 2: but it's fun. I had a good time watching this movie,

1593
01:30:43,640 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 2: and it definitely is more like If you love the

1594
01:30:47,120 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 2: shootout sequence and heat, this is that movie for you.

1595
01:30:50,760 --> 01:30:53,639
Speaker 2: But if you love the vibes of heat, I recommend

1596
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:58,200
Speaker 2: twenty eleven's Drive by Nicholas Winding reference during Ryan Gosling,

1597
01:30:58,640 --> 01:31:02,559
Speaker 2: which is so clearly inspired by Heat and Michael Mann

1598
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:06,760
Speaker 2: the neon the soundtrack. But this was such a big

1599
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:10,160
Speaker 2: deal when that movie came out in my little circle

1600
01:31:10,240 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 2: of people, and I really enjoyed it when it came out,

1601
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:16,200
Speaker 2: and I've seen it recently and I've enjoyed it less

1602
01:31:16,360 --> 01:31:19,080
Speaker 2: but it's still a good movie, I think.

1603
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:24,000
Speaker 1: Can I tell you a little secret, Yeah, I've never

1604
01:31:24,160 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 1: seen drive You've never seen Drives. No, it's good.

1605
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:34,360
Speaker 2: It's very of twenty eleven, so I would be curious

1606
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 2: kind of you seeing it now. It's very stylish. Albert

1607
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 2: Brooks is really good in it. And yeah, I don't

1608
01:31:43,200 --> 01:31:46,040
Speaker 2: know if I would say you need to see it, Millie,

1609
01:31:46,560 --> 01:31:50,320
Speaker 2: but I like that movie, and I don't love all

1610
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,439
Speaker 2: of Nicholas Winding Reffens movies, but yeah, this one's pretty good.

1611
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:56,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think I'll probably like it, to be honest,

1612
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:02,920
Speaker 1: even all of the hype and stuff that came around it,

1613
01:32:03,160 --> 01:32:05,240
Speaker 1: and after it, I think it's still like it, so

1614
01:32:05,479 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 1: I will watch it actually.

1615
01:32:06,920 --> 01:32:12,880
Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, wow, Millie. We recorded another episode. Thank you

1616
01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:15,400
Speaker 2: so much, Jamie Loftus for joining us today. It was

1617
01:32:15,439 --> 01:32:17,959
Speaker 2: really fun to get to talk about Jesus Christ Superstar,

1618
01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:21,759
Speaker 2: a really wacky movie. Check out her podcast, The Bechdel Cast.

1619
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's wow.

1620
01:32:26,720 --> 01:32:32,320
Speaker 1: Another episode, Canny believe. Well, next week we're gonna do

1621
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:36,680
Speaker 1: another deep dive into a topic that I personally I

1622
01:32:36,760 --> 01:32:37,960
Speaker 1: have a lot of steaks in.

1623
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:42,280
Speaker 2: We did Prince and Purple Rain this is somewhat. This

1624
01:32:42,520 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 2: is kind of an equivalent to you. Yeah, it's your

1625
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:45,879
Speaker 2: area exactly.

1626
01:32:46,680 --> 01:32:52,680
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about Southern Gothic films and we're

1627
01:32:52,680 --> 01:32:59,200
Speaker 1: gonna focus it on the classic film Elizabeth Taylor Paul Newman,

1628
01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:02,479
Speaker 1: written by Miss Williams kat on a hot tin roof

1629
01:33:02,479 --> 01:33:04,840
Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty eight. So we're gonna actually go backwards

1630
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:09,519
Speaker 1: in time and watch a more classic film. But it's

1631
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 1: gonna be fun. I have a lot to say about it,

1632
01:33:12,600 --> 01:33:14,400
Speaker 1: so please join us.

1633
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 2: I've never seen this movie first time.

1634
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:20,599
Speaker 1: Watch for me talk about men and their feelings. Oh,

1635
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:22,639
Speaker 1: you're gonna be in your feelings about it. Don't make

1636
01:33:22,760 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 1: me feel.

1637
01:33:26,760 --> 01:33:28,920
Speaker 2: Fabulous. Well, if you want to write into our show

1638
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:31,040
Speaker 2: to ask for film advice, I promise we'll do that

1639
01:33:31,120 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 2: segment again sometime soon.

1640
01:33:33,360 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 1: Please do so.

1641
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:37,080
Speaker 2: Write into Deer Movies at exactlyrightmedia dot com. I'm reading

1642
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:39,600
Speaker 2: all your little emails. They're so great. And if you

1643
01:33:39,640 --> 01:33:41,240
Speaker 2: want to send us a love letter too, we'll take

1644
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 2: those two. We won't read them on the air, we'll

1645
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 2: just print them off and you know, fold them up

1646
01:33:46,439 --> 01:33:50,599
Speaker 2: and keep them next to our hearts. So you can

1647
01:33:50,640 --> 01:33:52,840
Speaker 2: write in or you can send us up voicemail, which

1648
01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:55,559
Speaker 2: we love. We love playing people's voicemails on the show.

1649
01:33:55,800 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 2: Just record it on your phone and email it to

1650
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:00,800
Speaker 2: Dear Movies at exactly rightmedia dot com under a minute

1651
01:34:00,840 --> 01:34:04,000
Speaker 2: and record in a quiet place, please, that's right.

1652
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:07,519
Speaker 1: And follow us on social media. We are at Deer

1653
01:34:07,600 --> 01:34:12,240
Speaker 1: Movies I Love You on Instagram and Facebook, and we're

1654
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:16,879
Speaker 1: individually on letterboxed. So Casey is at Casey le O'Brien

1655
01:34:17,240 --> 01:34:19,520
Speaker 1: and I'm at m de'chericho.

1656
01:34:20,040 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 2: That's right, And please listen to Deer Movies I Love

1657
01:34:22,240 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 2: You on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you

1658
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:27,960
Speaker 2: get your podcasts. And hey, while you're out on those

1659
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:32,040
Speaker 2: internet streets, please rate and review our show. It means

1660
01:34:32,160 --> 01:34:34,800
Speaker 2: ever so much to do when you do that, so

1661
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:36,720
Speaker 2: if you're able to, please do so.

1662
01:34:37,960 --> 01:34:43,040
Speaker 1: All right, Casey Millie, great job this week.

1663
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 2: You too, Milli. You really brought your a game and

1664
01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 2: I was just trying.

1665
01:34:46,880 --> 01:34:50,240
Speaker 1: To keep up. I told you I'm never going back.

1666
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 2: Milli and I are virtually holding hands as she loses consciousness.

1667
01:34:57,160 --> 01:35:02,840
Speaker 1: See you guys next week. Bybee. This has been an

1668
01:35:02,920 --> 01:35:06,720
Speaker 1: Exactly Right production hosted by me Milli to Cherico and

1669
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,200
Speaker 1: produced by my co host Kasey O'Brien.

1670
01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:13,160
Speaker 2: This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfocal. Our associate producer

1671
01:35:13,280 --> 01:35:16,560
Speaker 2: is Christina Chamberlain, Our guest booker is Patrick Cottner, and

1672
01:35:16,680 --> 01:35:18,559
Speaker 2: our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

1673
01:35:18,720 --> 01:35:21,600
Speaker 1: Our incredible theme music is by the best band in

1674
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:23,520
Speaker 1: the entire world, The Softies.

1675
01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:27,720
Speaker 2: Thank you to our executive producers Karen Kilgarriff, Georgia Hardstark,

1676
01:35:27,880 --> 01:35:29,240
Speaker 2: Daniel Kramer and Milli.

1677
01:35:29,320 --> 01:35:33,600
Speaker 1: To Jericho, we love you. Goodbye, Becer