WEBVTT - Who Owns Your Medical Data?  Craig Gottwals talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>When you're ready to ride Metro, we want you to

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<v Speaker 1>mata dot com slash doing our part story. Before we

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<v Speaker 1>get into some healthcare talk, had an appointment yesterday with

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<v Speaker 1>my son's doctor, who was a one of the best

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<v Speaker 1>in the world at what he does. I mean, he's

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<v Speaker 1>at a very very high level, which factors into this story. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so my son needs this particular treatment and for whatever reason,

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<v Speaker 1>the doctor told me that it's not covered by insurance.

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<v Speaker 1>Likely he will write a letter. Now he's he's the

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<v Speaker 1>best in the world at this right, but he will

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<v Speaker 1>write a letter. He said he usually gets turned down

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<v Speaker 1>by insurance companies even though he's the best doctor in

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<v Speaker 1>the world to who's recommending this And it's probably gonna

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<v Speaker 1>cost me between thirty and sixty thousand dollars cash for

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<v Speaker 1>this treatment for my son, which it's either he has

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<v Speaker 1>a crappy life forever or I get this treatment. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's not an option whether to do it or not.

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<v Speaker 1>It's serious brain thing. But thirty to sixty dollars cash,

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<v Speaker 1>even though the best doctor in the world says that

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<v Speaker 1>it is necessary. And you know, that's just where we

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<v Speaker 1>are with insurance and stuff. That would just be ruinous

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<v Speaker 1>to a lot of American families. Most of you can

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<v Speaker 1>take out a home equity loan, I guess, or you

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<v Speaker 1>would go fund me and have a you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>people do you have a barbecue picnic and pupe people

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<v Speaker 1>show you know whatever. But it's incredible what's covered and

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<v Speaker 1>what's not the best in the world says, oh, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>this is absolutely valid. This, this treatment is what is needed.

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<v Speaker 1>But the insurance company says, we'd like to that We're

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<v Speaker 1>going to look at it for a couple of mornings.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Craig got Walls is an attorney

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<v Speaker 1>at law benefit consultant. He is Craig the healthcare Guru.

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<v Speaker 1>In a private text to me, he suggested, how about

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<v Speaker 1>Craig the healthcare gangster. I thought that was not a

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<v Speaker 1>great idea, um, but he sure knows what he's talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>And and Craig, first of all, welcome, always good to

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<v Speaker 1>talk my friend. Thank you sir. Sorry to hear that story, Jack,

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<v Speaker 1>that's not a good one. That's just interesting. But you

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<v Speaker 1>know what occurred to me as I was thinking about

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<v Speaker 1>chatting with you today that healthcare is the number one

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<v Speaker 1>issue in politics these days other than I love Trump,

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<v Speaker 1>I hate Trump, um And I heard a commentator say

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<v Speaker 1>that mostly it's shouting slogans at each other and putting

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<v Speaker 1>bumper stickers on our car either the health care is

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<v Speaker 1>a right or no socialism. Then the minute you get

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<v Speaker 1>into details of any plan, your plan gets less and

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<v Speaker 1>less popular. Um and and and yet it's something every

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<v Speaker 1>single human being listening or participating in the show or

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<v Speaker 1>whatever deals with on probably a monthly basis. It's not more.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we're completely at sea at this about this

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<v Speaker 1>issue that we all deal with all the time. It's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of ironic. But anyway, and the older and the

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<v Speaker 1>older you get, the more you deal with it, and

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<v Speaker 1>the more powerful of a voting block you are too. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a good point. So you send us some notes

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<v Speaker 1>on what you wanted to talk about today and it's

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<v Speaker 1>a great topic. Health insurers are collecting astonishing levels of

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<v Speaker 1>detail on your life and it's costing you. What what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on? So you guys had you guys had a

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<v Speaker 1>segment on your show recently that I heard a snip of,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was about employer wellness programs and how people

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<v Speaker 1>are voluntarily giving up a lot of their personal information

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<v Speaker 1>by wearing these wearable devices that tell you how often

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<v Speaker 1>they walk, how often they exercise, how well they sweep, etcetera.

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<v Speaker 1>And they're they're often doing that with their employer for

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<v Speaker 1>something like two to three hundred dollars off of their

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<v Speaker 1>insurance costs hundred a month something you wear a fitbit

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<v Speaker 1>all the time and the your your boss, your company

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<v Speaker 1>has access to all the info. Yes, and the reporting

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<v Speaker 1>on that story was what was well done and it

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<v Speaker 1>was accurate it but what what it what reminded me

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<v Speaker 1>was that you guys are not aware of what's going on.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's the stuff that people are consenting to write.

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<v Speaker 1>But you guys, we have never talked on your show

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<v Speaker 1>about what's going on behind the scenes. How much information

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<v Speaker 1>these entities are gaining on your life without your knowledge.

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<v Speaker 1>So little history just really quick on this insurance, the

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<v Speaker 1>theory of insurances that you're guarding against known or excuse me,

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<v Speaker 1>unknown risks. Right if you if you already have cancer,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't go buy insurance, or at least that was

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<v Speaker 1>the way things worked before Obamacare. Right, So once Obamacare

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<v Speaker 1>came along, Obamacare said, okay, now you can no longer

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<v Speaker 1>underwrite an individual based upon his or her health status.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, you can't ask them whether or not

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<v Speaker 1>they have cancer. You just have to give them insurance. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>as Jack has pointed out hundreds of times on your show,

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<v Speaker 1>that's untenable. You can't do that. You can't just say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll provide insurance for anybody who shows up. Wait till

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<v Speaker 1>you break your arms, then show up. So what hell?

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<v Speaker 1>Insurance companies have been doing for the last decade and

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<v Speaker 1>really for the last twenty years. But but Obamacare launched,

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<v Speaker 1>it was, oh shoot, and here's a four trillion dollar

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<v Speaker 1>industry and we have to be able to keep it going.

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<v Speaker 1>And if we cannot underwrite based upon your health status,

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<v Speaker 1>we must be able to underwrite, in other words, but

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<v Speaker 1>through toicate the risk based upon other things. So what

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<v Speaker 1>Obamacare did not make illegal was looking at things like

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<v Speaker 1>your age, your zip code, how often you watch TV,

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<v Speaker 1>what magazines you get, whether or not you own a gun,

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<v Speaker 1>what ethnicity you are, et cetera. How do they know? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>the spawn of Obamacare really coincides quite nicely with the

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<v Speaker 1>launch of gigantic corporate data collection like Facebook and Twitter,

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<v Speaker 1>all social media, all every every imaginable record you can

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<v Speaker 1>think of, your divorce records, your marriage records, when you

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<v Speaker 1>buy a home, when you refinance, your AT card scores,

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<v Speaker 1>your Google searches. There are multi billion dollar corporations gathering

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<v Speaker 1>that and creating a docier on each and every single

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<v Speaker 1>one of us. And the insurance companies are buying that info.

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<v Speaker 1>They are they're renting it there. What an insurance company

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<v Speaker 1>does and this is really inside baseball stuff, but what

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<v Speaker 1>they do is they'll take a census. They'll take a

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<v Speaker 1>demographic profile of say your company with your thousand employees,

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<v Speaker 1>and they will send that over to one of these

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<v Speaker 1>data brokers like IBM, Watson or Millerman or Lexis, Nexis

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<v Speaker 1>or optim and they'll run that census something just making

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<v Speaker 1>I can say those names because they're published um and

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<v Speaker 1>they'll say they'll say, tell me, tell me how many

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<v Speaker 1>HIV s you've got in this group, Tell me how

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<v Speaker 1>far along they are, what drugs they take? Yeah, So

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<v Speaker 1>that and then all of your insurance costs are then

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<v Speaker 1>being adjudicated back up and built into your premiums based

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<v Speaker 1>upon this data that may or may not even be accurate.

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<v Speaker 1>And so one thing that's interesting to me about this

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<v Speaker 1>is I've always wondered all this data that's being harvested

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<v Speaker 1>from me, either legally or illegally, by all these companies.

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<v Speaker 1>I've always wondered, what's somebody gonna do with it? And

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<v Speaker 1>so now I know one thing that's being done with it.

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<v Speaker 1>Let me toss a bunch of examples out. Then we'll

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<v Speaker 1>take a quick break, and I want to ask you

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<v Speaker 1>the key question. Um, but I love these examples. Are

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<v Speaker 1>you a woman who recently changed your name. You could

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<v Speaker 1>be newly married and have a pricey pregnancy pending, or

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you're stressed and anxious from a recent divorce, so

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<v Speaker 1>the computer models say, expense expense. Are you a woman

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<v Speaker 1>who's purchased plus sized clothing, you're considered at risk for depression,

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<v Speaker 1>mental health care expensive, among other things. Wow, So well

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<v Speaker 1>that is interesting. Are they Are they doing it well?

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<v Speaker 1>I understand you want to get as much data as

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<v Speaker 1>you can to understand how much you ought to be charging. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if you're if you're ensuring a bit ausness

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<v Speaker 1>that only hires four pounders, it probably be handy to

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<v Speaker 1>know that is an insurance company. Well, how about people

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<v Speaker 1>that watch an extraordinary amount of television I don't exercise

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<v Speaker 1>right right, that's built in there. That's built in there.

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<v Speaker 1>By the way, you're your smart TVs are reporting that back,

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<v Speaker 1>that's in your agreement. Is there any sales into these

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<v Speaker 1>get on for my cat when I'm not at home exactly,

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<v Speaker 1>see that. That's unfortunate, John, you're paying for that? So

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<v Speaker 1>is anything the farious being done to individuals or is

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<v Speaker 1>it just a price estimation tool. The companies that are

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<v Speaker 1>engaged in this activity become very uh shady and quiet

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<v Speaker 1>and and and they obviously escape the facts when you

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<v Speaker 1>start asking about individuals. But I have information that it

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<v Speaker 1>is being used at the individual level. I know specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm involved with a group of attorneys and other

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<v Speaker 1>experts looking into the legality of this, because I'll just

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<v Speaker 1>say this, what insurance companies do now. We used to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to generate a quote for a for a

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<v Speaker 1>client with just a centis just said, you know, employee

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<v Speaker 1>want as a male. At this age, we never gave

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<v Speaker 1>any individual identifiers. Now insurance companies are requiring names when

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<v Speaker 1>we when we so I'm submitting a quote for a

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<v Speaker 1>three person company, they want all three hundred names with

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<v Speaker 1>zip codes because they want to run it through this database.

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<v Speaker 1>So I know, darn well they're using it at the

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<v Speaker 1>individual level. Wow. Well, and if they can they will,

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<v Speaker 1>So exactly right. And it's interesting you mentioned there at

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<v Speaker 1>some point um the information might not even be accurate.

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<v Speaker 1>So I mean, it's it's it's troubling on a bunch

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<v Speaker 1>of levels, but the impult they have on me might

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<v Speaker 1>not be accurate. They gotten a wrong, wrong stuff at

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<v Speaker 1>some point. That's exactly right. And remember I think you

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<v Speaker 1>guys have talked about on your show as well. Sixty

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<v Speaker 1>minutes did that piece on privacy in Europe. This is

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<v Speaker 1>illegal in Europe because you own your own data. What

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<v Speaker 1>needs to look you guys know, I am not an

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<v Speaker 1>advocate for more federal law, but what we need is

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<v Speaker 1>we do need a law saying we own our own

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely otherwise you have so so one author that approached

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<v Speaker 1>this right, who's the biggest thing I keep interrupting you,

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<v Speaker 1>but who's the biggest lobbyist in the entire country? Freaking Google.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a reason why we don't have that law in

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<v Speaker 1>Europe does well Google, And health care is up there

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<v Speaker 1>in the top five too, So you've got a really

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<v Speaker 1>unholy A lot are going on right now. Yeah, health

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<v Speaker 1>care is arguably the number one industry in the country.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's a fifth of our economy. So you've got

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<v Speaker 1>seriously powerful players here working to to do this behind

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<v Speaker 1>the scenes, and people just don't know this is going on. Yeah. Wow, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so a great great stuff interesting, uh you know, unknown

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<v Speaker 1>and and and important part of people's health care. And

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<v Speaker 1>we'll we'll have you joined us again before too long,

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<v Speaker 1>Craig to talk about the you know, whatever is next.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the most interesting thing you've ever told us. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's some of the brask there. See if there was more.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll be thinking about this well before, probably for the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of my life. But that is really really interesting,

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<v Speaker 1>not surprising and interesting. One author that looked at this

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<v Speaker 1>did a request from Lexis Nexis. Because you are allowed

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<v Speaker 1>to request a limited set of the data they have

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<v Speaker 1>his report came back, going back more than ten years,

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<v Speaker 1>a hundred and eighty two pages of information on him,

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<v Speaker 1>just one one company, one person, and eighty two pages.

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<v Speaker 1>Other companies have boasted that they're collecting one thousand, five

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<v Speaker 1>hundred facts about each individual, going all the way back

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<v Speaker 1>to the early nineties. Prophecy. Well, and yeah, now now

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<v Speaker 1>this next generation who have had all their info out

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<v Speaker 1>there since you know, birth, Really, jeez, what a dossier

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<v Speaker 1>they'll have on on all those people when they're grown up.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly which they started, and then they started in the

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<v Speaker 1>ninth before social media, they started doing this on all

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<v Speaker 1>of the public records, right, you're arrest record, your marriage record,

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<v Speaker 1>your property records, your credit records, anything, make it get

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<v Speaker 1>Then once social media kicked in, this has gone into

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<v Speaker 1>hyper drive. Steroids Bill because that coincided with Obamacare of

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<v Speaker 1>that said, now you can't even ask what you're bidding

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<v Speaker 1>on when you quote for medical insurance anyway. So the

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<v Speaker 1>health industry said, whoa wha red flag. We've got to

0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:16.720
<v Speaker 1>have a way. We've got to have a way to

0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.080
<v Speaker 1>understand what the health risk is out there. So now

0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.959
<v Speaker 1>instead of reporting your actual health risk that would be

0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.000
<v Speaker 1>accurate you're getting. You're getting your premiums based upon these

0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:29.720
<v Speaker 1>these markers for health that may or may not correlate

0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.000
<v Speaker 1>very well with your health, like how much TV you

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:33.920
<v Speaker 1>watched and whether you want a gun, and whether you

0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.199
<v Speaker 1>like to ski? Yeah, maybe I spend all day watching

0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:38.960
<v Speaker 1>those working out on the beach shows used to be

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.520
<v Speaker 1>so popular. What you used to call that soft core

0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:49.000
<v Speaker 1>Hawaii bikini aerobics, spreading on the beach. Yeah, um uh wow,

0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:50.920
<v Speaker 1>what do you like to ski? So that that'd be

0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:52.640
<v Speaker 1>a tick up? And what you're gonna cost because you

0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.520
<v Speaker 1>might break your leg or whatever. So this is a

0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.719
<v Speaker 1>great example of unintended consequences. I mean, the Obamacare was

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:00.600
<v Speaker 1>hoping to do away with any of that, and now

0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 1>we've got, you know, just like you said on steroids,

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.040
<v Speaker 1>version of what we used, right, and listen to strike

0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.560
<v Speaker 1>a liberty loving note. Uh, it's obvious as privacy dies

0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:15.320
<v Speaker 1>that if we were to give up our liberties or

0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:20.200
<v Speaker 1>give more power to government, their ability to do evil

0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.600
<v Speaker 1>with it would be so big, I mean, be so

0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.320
<v Speaker 1>good because they know everything about everyone, every phase of

0:13:27.320 --> 0:13:30.520
<v Speaker 1>their life. I mean, lies Jack, when not the current generation. Yeah,

0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:32.640
<v Speaker 1>I see, when you're nine years old, you you hurt

0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:35.080
<v Speaker 1>your leg and in the youth soccer, I mean, come on,

0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.000
<v Speaker 1>so yeah that yeah, I think you know, let's renew

0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:41.840
<v Speaker 1>our dedication of the idea of not giving the government

0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.720
<v Speaker 1>too much power the many weapons that they can make

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.079
<v Speaker 1>a movie about this and if that's really interesting, Craig

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:52.600
<v Speaker 1>got Wallace Craig, the healthcare guru does benefits and healthcare

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 1>and law and that sort of thing for his clients,

0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.439
<v Speaker 1>and he's really really good at it. What's the best

0:13:56.440 --> 0:14:00.440
<v Speaker 1>way to get ahold of you, Craig, um benefit dash

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 1>revolution dot com is my blog, my blog blog and

0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:08.520
<v Speaker 1>one other thing there, Joe. If your large company wants

0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:13.000
<v Speaker 1>to avoid giving this information, contact the healthcare guru. I

0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:16.080
<v Speaker 1>know a way around this, all right, Craig got Well,

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.080
<v Speaker 1>thanks a million, Craig, great to talk at as always.

0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.480
<v Speaker 1>How fascinating and troubling is that I always wondered where

0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.320
<v Speaker 1>all that data was going. But hundredreds of pages all

0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 1>these companies, Who are you know they're selling your data?

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.120
<v Speaker 1>I always thought, who are they selling to? Who wants it?

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.000
<v Speaker 1>What they're doing with? Well, this is this would be

0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:33.880
<v Speaker 1>the only one that they that needs to exist with

0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 1>some of money at stake. Right. We have to decide

0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:40.360
<v Speaker 1>who owns your data clearly. I do own my own data,

0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:45.640
<v Speaker 1>not clearly according to the lobbyists. When you're ready to

0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 1>ride Metro, we want you to know we're ready for you.

0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Here are just a few of the people at Metro

0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:52.840
<v Speaker 1>to tell you how we're doing our part to keep

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:58.880
<v Speaker 1>writers safe. Cleaning before you've found halfs out of sounds

0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:02.160
<v Speaker 1>of stakes. All my with a Metro, no mask, no

0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Metro need one. We have a few extras at Metro.

0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>We're doing our part to keep the DC area moving.

0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 1>Find out more at will mata dot com, slash doing

0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>our part