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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. Hello,

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Speaker 1: and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt

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Speaker 1: Randmamma ding Dong. Yeah, my name's no. They call me Ben.

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Speaker 1: You are you and you're the most important part of

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Speaker 1: this show. Thanks for dropping by two stuff that they

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Speaker 1: don't want you to know. It's really good to see you.

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Speaker 1: I'm really sorry about that, randol Emma day. I was

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Speaker 1: just trying something new. I was good. I was talking.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to to him or her that is listening.

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Speaker 1: Come on, oh my bad to all of them, wait,

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Speaker 1: look at me and making it all about me. You've

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Speaker 1: got a song in your heart. My friends, hut it out.

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Speaker 1: We are we are asked. We contain multitudes, according to

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Speaker 1: Walt Whitman, and we're not any of us a single

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Speaker 1: solitary thing. But due to the nature of today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we do want to establish at the beginning that we

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Speaker 1: are not doctors. This is true. No, m d here

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Speaker 1: at least know any I'm not a physician's assistant, not

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Speaker 1: in our end. Uh yeah, well I guess we should

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Speaker 1: amend that because your KNOWL is a music doctor. I'm

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Speaker 1: a doctor of funk. Yeah, and that's not even true,

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Speaker 1: and that's a MAT's a love doctor, doctor of love. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know we're gonna leave it there, man, But seriously,

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Speaker 1: this is not medical advice. This is, however, a pretty

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Speaker 1: scary story, and it starts off so sweetly. Today we're

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Speaker 1: talking about sugar. We're gonna tell it to you completely.

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Speaker 1: So maybe we could talk about some of our personal experiences.

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Speaker 1: Are you guys fans of eats sweet things? I used

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Speaker 1: to be much more so, but in my cantankerous old age,

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Speaker 1: I feel like I have sort of soured to the sweet.

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Speaker 1: I'm much more of a savory guy. Back before my

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Speaker 1: house stuff works days, mountain dew was my lifeblood with

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Speaker 1: the monster days after that, right, uh yeah, monster without sugar. Though,

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Speaker 1: I've never been a sugary energy drink person, but the

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Speaker 1: mountain dew, my god, I don't. I don't particularly eat

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Speaker 1: sweet things. I used to love soda. That was the

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Speaker 1: one exception, and the I'm sure my dentist is grateful

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Speaker 1: for that. But the the one thing that I always

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Speaker 1: found weird in social situations is if someone offers you

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Speaker 1: a piece of cake because it's somebody else's birthday, you're

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Speaker 1: kind of obligated to at least take a piece. And

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Speaker 1: that would be the only time to have his sweet

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Speaker 1: because people were with the soft rules of society obligating

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Speaker 1: me to do it. You know, I just said all

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Speaker 1: that stuff, and last night I was at a farmer's

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Speaker 1: market and bought a big old piece of Jeremy sue. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's mostly coffee, though, see every once in a while,

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Speaker 1: mostly coffee. You gotta reward yourself, I feel. I feel

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Speaker 1: that every once in a while. Yeah. And so we

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Speaker 1: all in the United States and abroad, we all continually

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Speaker 1: run into sweet things, right, and the basis of those

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Speaker 1: sweet things most of the time is sugar. But what

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Speaker 1: is sugar? Why? It's a simple carbohydrate, Ben, It's responsible

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Speaker 1: for that sweet taste in all those foods that you

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Speaker 1: daily beloved. Why is it called a carbohydrate, Matt, Well, simple,

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Speaker 1: it's because it's got a carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's like in terms of calories. So one

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Speaker 1: teaspoon of white sugar has about sixteen calories, about four

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Speaker 1: per gram, and it gives you that quick boom, that snap,

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Speaker 1: that snap crack, that rama Lama ding dog, that Ramo

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Speaker 1: Lama ding dogs. It worked. Uh. It gives you that

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Speaker 1: quick dose of inner g so your body can process

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Speaker 1: in your body process it faster than complex carbohydrates or proteins.

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Speaker 1: But friends and neighbors be aware if you eat too

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Speaker 1: much sugar, the excess energy may be stored as fat.

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Speaker 1: Remember that part because it's very important later. But sugar

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Speaker 1: isn't just a sweetener, right, It's also a super useful preservative. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, sugar helps to hinder the growth of bacteria

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Speaker 1: in jam um. It can also be used as a

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Speaker 1: bulking agent or an additive to food that gives certain

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Speaker 1: kinds of textures um, and sometimes even it's added to

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Speaker 1: accelerate fermentation or to change the boiling or freezing point

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Speaker 1: of a particular dish. You want to talk about fermentation. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we gotta get into beer really fast. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea how much sugar was in beer. Oh yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: until i I've really got into I p A s

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Speaker 1: for a little bit there. And there was a list

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Speaker 1: that came out in I think twenty three team maybe

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Speaker 1: that was looking at specifically the big Foot Sierra Nevada beer,

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Speaker 1: which was one of my favorites. And the thing, it

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Speaker 1: was like eating a slice of cake every every beer

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Speaker 1: you had. That's true. Even the beer that is advertised

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Speaker 1: as light will have a higher high have a level

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Speaker 1: of sugar involved. That might surprise people, because that's how

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Speaker 1: you make it right, right fermentation. So when we hear

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Speaker 1: the word sugar, most of us probably think of table sugar.

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Speaker 1: You know that white stuff. Yeah, yeah, the crystalline, insanely

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Speaker 1: sweet thing we buy a grocery stores. But the truth

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Speaker 1: is there are multiple kinds of sugars. We have a

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Speaker 1: couple of examples here too. Fruittoast. The stuff is found

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Speaker 1: in all kinds of fruits. You can find it in

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Speaker 1: honey as well. My personal favorite galactose because it sounds

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Speaker 1: like it comes from space, and that's actually found in

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Speaker 1: milk and also dairy products. And then there's good old glucoast,

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Speaker 1: which find it honey, fruits and vegetables. It is a

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Speaker 1: good friend of fructose, that old glucose. You also got

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Speaker 1: lactose again coming from milks. You can also find or

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Speaker 1: you can also make this from glucose and galactose, which

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Speaker 1: is fun. Then you have maltose or maltos found in

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Speaker 1: barley malt sucrose, which is made up of glucose and

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Speaker 1: fructos and found in plants, and the last, but not least,

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Speaker 1: the absolute best, zilos found in wood or straw. Why

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Speaker 1: do you like that one? Because it's zilos. It's not

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Speaker 1: like a transformer or something. Yeah, why are you a

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Speaker 1: zilos supremacist? Now? Yes? Besides, besides beets and sugarcane, sugar

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Speaker 1: can also be derived from honey and a lot of

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Speaker 1: fruits like dates or coconuts, uh, and tree SAPs can

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Speaker 1: also be sources of sugar. And this table sugar stuff,

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Speaker 1: let's just call it grocery stores sugar. Uh, it's it's

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Speaker 1: called sucrose, and it comes from sugar beets or sugar cane,

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Speaker 1: and sucros appears and all these other plants too, along

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Speaker 1: with some of the other people you heard from our

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Speaker 1: greatest hits just a second ago. Glucose and fructos, and

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Speaker 1: it's actually in every plant since sugar and oxygen or

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Speaker 1: products of photosynthesis. But unlike sugar beets and sugarcane, a

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Speaker 1: lot of other plants don't produce sucros in a large

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Speaker 1: enough quantity to harvest, so it's more like a trace.

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Speaker 1: So the sugar we're going to discuss today is mostly

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Speaker 1: going to be derived from those sugar beets and that

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Speaker 1: sugar cane, which is probably the one you may have

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Speaker 1: heard of the most. That's when I think of sugar,

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Speaker 1: I think of sugar cane. Um, And I'm not really

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Speaker 1: sure why. I don't know what pop culture reference taught

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Speaker 1: me about sugar cane as a kid. Well, there's a

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Speaker 1: sonic youth song called sugar cane. Maybe lack of sugar cane.

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Speaker 1: I'm standing in the rain, very nice, so so thank

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Speaker 1: you know. Um. So, these sugar beets are grown throughout

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Speaker 1: the world, in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, parts of

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Speaker 1: North Africa, and South America. Than sugarcane, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: you need a tropical climate, you need semi tropical climates,

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Speaker 1: something that's nice and warm and wet, and it's grown

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Speaker 1: in the southern United States, South America, Africa, South Asia,

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Speaker 1: and also the South Pacific. Hold on, hold on, okay,

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Speaker 1: let's stop this train for one second. We would be

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Speaker 1: remiss if we didn't mention something that I know you're

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Speaker 1: thinking about already. Ladies, and gentlemen. High fructose corn syrup HFCs,

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Speaker 1: as its name applies. This stuff comes from corn spoiler,

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Speaker 1: not sugarcane or beats. Was creating the nineteen sixties and

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Speaker 1: it's an additive now found in so many processed foods,

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Speaker 1: including a boatload of sodas. It's become popular for food

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Speaker 1: manufacturers because it's cheaper than the table sugar. It's also

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Speaker 1: pretty controversial because people believe it contributes to obesity and

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Speaker 1: that the body treats this mix of this specific of

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Speaker 1: fructose mix differently. So yeah, yeah, and you'll hear are

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff about it. If you go to

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Speaker 1: the sugar lobby, they're going to tell you that it's

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Speaker 1: essentially glucose with a little more fructose than regular corn syrup. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the mixes like fifty five uh fructose to

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Speaker 1: glucose something like that, and then regular corn syrups almost

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Speaker 1: all glucose. Right, Yeah, it's not when they say, hi,

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Speaker 1: they just need more than half exactly. So we have

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Speaker 1: all we have this wealth of sugars, its wealth of

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Speaker 1: sweet opportunities. How much do we eat in the US?

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Speaker 1: Funny you should ask that I have a stat right,

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Speaker 1: here in front of me. The per capita consumption of

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Speaker 1: refined sugar in the United States of America has swung

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Speaker 1: between twenty seven and forty six kilograms sixty and a

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Speaker 1: hundred and one pounds, respectively in the last forty years.

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Speaker 1: According to data from the United States, and eight, people

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Speaker 1: were consuming over sixty pounds of added sugar per year.

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Speaker 1: And this does not include fruit juices, which as we know,

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Speaker 1: contains its own. Yeah, and today the US is the

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Speaker 1: number one sugar consumer. And these recent statistics, just to

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Speaker 1: give a sense of perspective over time, indicate that the

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Speaker 1: average person consumes about a hundred and twenty six point

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Speaker 1: four grams daily. Uh. This can fluctuate over time, and

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Speaker 1: we should probably make a note about the danger of averages.

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Speaker 1: This country is huge. It's we're talking about a population

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Speaker 1: of almost three hundred and twenty million people, uh, three

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Speaker 1: eighteen point nine as. But when we have a sample

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Speaker 1: size that large, what that means is depend on the

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Speaker 1: methodology of this average. That means it could be someone

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Speaker 1: who just somehow eats a negligible amount of sugar all year,

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Speaker 1: and maybe someone who eats six times the daily dosage

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Speaker 1: every single day. You know, yeah, because if if we

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Speaker 1: look at the caloric intake of a hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: six point four grams of sugar, it's roughly five hundred

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Speaker 1: and five. I mean, this is gonna be a little off.

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Speaker 1: Let's say over five hundred calories per day of just sugar.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, man. And you can find some great statistics

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Speaker 1: on sugar consumption in the US as well as sugar

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Speaker 1: consumption in the rest of the world. So if we

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Speaker 1: take that other number, a hundred and twenty six point

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Speaker 1: four grams per day in the United States, the next

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Speaker 1: runner up would be Germany with a hundred and two

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Speaker 1: point nine grams, so still still pretty high up there.

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Speaker 1: And then if we go down to the bottom, uh,

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Speaker 1: in India, for instance, people will have only five point

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Speaker 1: one grams of sugar per day. So there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of variants here across across the world. But when you

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Speaker 1: get closer, closer to the twist here, how much should

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Speaker 1: we eat? Great question? Well, the World Health Organization has

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Speaker 1: some opinions. Uh. They recommend that you have less than

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Speaker 1: ten percent of your total energy intake from free sugars.

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Speaker 1: It's the equivalent to about fifty grams around twelve level

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Speaker 1: teaspoons for a person of healthy body weight consuming about

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Speaker 1: two thousand calories a day, but ideally it should be

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Speaker 1: less than five and you have additional health benefits. This

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Speaker 1: is tricky because a lot of stuff that you don't

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Speaker 1: think would have a lot of sugar in it is

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Speaker 1: just inundated with this. And fifty grams yes a day. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's like a pile. That's like a massive mountain of sugar.

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Speaker 1: If you think about it visually, yeah, it is, But

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Speaker 1: then you think about how much we're actually eating. Six

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Speaker 1: is the average grahams. I mean, that's it's insane, probably

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Speaker 1: largely because if it's maybe it's preservative qualities. So like

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Speaker 1: if you like microwave meals, for example, it's got sugar

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Speaker 1: in it because and you wouldn't think that my lasagna

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Speaker 1: would have sugar in it, but it's in there because

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Speaker 1: it's helping to preserve the frozen food. Well. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: and specifically the who was talking about free sugars here,

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Speaker 1: that phrase free sugars is very important. We're not talking

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Speaker 1: about fruits, We're not talking at anything that has naturally

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Speaker 1: occurring sugars. Um it's sugars that's added in a production

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Speaker 1: right right, added the food or drinks by the manufacturer

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Speaker 1: or the cook, or even the consumer, because you know,

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Speaker 1: to each their own when it comes to eating habits,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people will just pour sugar and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you gotta take that coffee, black man. It's

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Speaker 1: the only way. Yes. According to the American Heart Association,

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Speaker 1: a maximumount of added sugars you should eat per day

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Speaker 1: are for men, a d and fifty calories per day.

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Speaker 1: That's thirty seven point five grams or nine teaspoons. Okay,

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Speaker 1: not too bad. For women, it's a hundred calories per

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Speaker 1: day or five grams six teaspoons. We've been talking about

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Speaker 1: a lot of numbers here, so let's put all these

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Speaker 1: numbers into perspective. And all I love that you pointed

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Speaker 1: out that is a pile if you imagine it visually.

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Speaker 1: So one twelve ounce can of coke Coca Cola, for instance,

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Speaker 1: contains a hundred and forty calories from sugar. A regular

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Speaker 1: Snickers bar, regular size contains a hundred and twenty calories

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Speaker 1: from sugar. God, so one soda a day if you're

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Speaker 1: a dude, according to the American Heart Association, already put

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Speaker 1: you like close to your limit. That's so upsetting to me.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know what. I think. That's why after

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Speaker 1: working here, I stopped drinking sugary sodas. Yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: a big deal for me. Um. I just switched to

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Speaker 1: uh soda water like Lacroix or sam Pella Greena or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and um satisfied my craving for the bubbles. I really

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Speaker 1: like the bubbles. I find it very refreshing. But I

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Speaker 1: just literally don't drink soda ever. Maybe I rarely go

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Speaker 1: to a fast food restaurant. I might get a coke

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Speaker 1: with my fries and mom burger, but I mean maybe

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Speaker 1: twice a month. Yeah, I also used to drink it

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Speaker 1: quite frequently. But I'm I'm glad that I'm I had

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Speaker 1: an amicable breakup with soda. We're still friends, you know,

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Speaker 1: we might might hang out once a month or something,

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Speaker 1: but we're not gonna live together anymore. Yeah, I've got

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Speaker 1: a really bad relationship with aspart team. Now all the

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Speaker 1: other the weird one. What is it's uh zylatl zilatol. Yes, though,

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Speaker 1: and this is without even touching on artificial sweeteners. We

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Speaker 1: want to give you these numbers just from these various

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Speaker 1: types of sugar, not even counting artificial sweeteners. And I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you're pointed that out, Matt, because we want to

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Speaker 1: paint the picture of just how popular this substance is,

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Speaker 1: how um, how much it permeates the the food market,

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Speaker 1: especially in the US, but in other places as well.

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Speaker 1: How do we get to the place that we are currently,

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Speaker 1: So glad you asked, and we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: that right after a quick word from our sponsor. Once

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Speaker 1: upon a time, more than five thousand years ago, Polynesians

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Speaker 1: used sugarcane as a sweetener, and the substance eventually made

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Speaker 1: it to India, and from India it spread westward, aided

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Speaker 1: by pillaging and trade that came with the conquest of

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Speaker 1: Darius the Persian Emperor and Alexander the Great, who overthrew

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Speaker 1: the Persian Empire and who, by the way, died when

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Speaker 1: he was only thirty two. So let's fast forward to Fote.

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Speaker 1: Crystal Bald Cologne, otherwise known street named Christopher Columbus, brought

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Speaker 1: sugarcane to the Caribbean and it was a perfect environment

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Speaker 1: for growing this crop. The ferral ground led to the

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Speaker 1: development of a massive sugarcane industry in what they called

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Speaker 1: the New World. Over the next few centuries, plantations sprouted

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Speaker 1: up throughout the Caribbean, the West Indies, and South America,

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Speaker 1: and they were fueling sugar. They were also fuelling the

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Speaker 1: slave trade. These two trades were inextricably intertwined. During these years,

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Speaker 1: sugar finally became cheap enough to be accessible to most Europeans,

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Speaker 1: and until then it had been considered a luxury. And

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Speaker 1: do you know what they called it? White gold? For real,

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Speaker 1: they called it white gold. That's what the British colonists

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Speaker 1: called it. And it was the engine of the slave

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Speaker 1: trade and brought millions of millions of people from Africa

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Speaker 1: to the America's beginning in the early sixteenth century. Like

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Speaker 1: think like fifteen oh five. And this means that the

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Speaker 1: history of every nation in the Caribbean, much of South America,

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Speaker 1: and parts of the southern United States have been forever

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Speaker 1: shaped by sugarcane plantations that were started as cash crops

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Speaker 1: by European superpowers. Now it's crazy to think about how

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Speaker 1: much money was generated here for the owners of these

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Speaker 1: companies that were producing it, the the different farm owners.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of money going around, and that profit

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Speaker 1: was so significant that it may have even actually helped

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Speaker 1: America achieve independence from Great Britain because it allowed money

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Speaker 1: to buy the stuff that's required to start a war.

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Speaker 1: You know, I have in my head this this idea

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Speaker 1: that if if there was a way to do it

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Speaker 1: without just atrocious chattel slavery, it would be kind of

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Speaker 1: cool to have your profession as sugar tycoon. You know

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Speaker 1: those exist, don't they? They do? They do in the

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Speaker 1: present day. What's the what's the massive company. There's there's

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Speaker 1: a huge company against crazy subsidies in the US. It's

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Speaker 1: the one that's in all the stores, the grocery store

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Speaker 1: sugar that we always talk about. Is it Dixie, Dixie Dixie.

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Speaker 1: There's gotta be a tycoon at the end of that tunnel. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's Dixie Sugar. There's I'm sure there are other has

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Speaker 1: been they're out there. Yeah, the big bag. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: look for the look for it in the big bag.

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Speaker 1: Dixie sugar is the old blood Preshatol sugar. That look

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Speaker 1: for it in the giant bag. For it in the

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Speaker 1: giant bag. From seventeen fifteen, there were near constant wars

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Speaker 1: consuming much of Europe. British naval blockades forced Europe to

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Speaker 1: look for an alternative to cane sugar. The eventual solution

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Speaker 1: they found was the sugar beat, and since this period,

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Speaker 1: Europe has gotten much of its sugar from beats. So

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Speaker 1: let's look at it today. Despite the evidence that too

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Speaker 1: much sugar can have damaging and dilatorious effects, it remains

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Speaker 1: immensely popular around the globe. We are literally, on a

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Speaker 1: primal level, wired to love this stuff. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: our ancestors or even things you came before us. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You naturally associate uh, sweet sensation or taste with something

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Speaker 1: being safe to eat. Yeah. Yeah, if it's bitter, you

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Speaker 1: don't want to eat it. If it's sweet, that means

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Speaker 1: the bugs are probably attracted to it and they eat

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Speaker 1: it right that it isn't that kind of how it

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Speaker 1: went exactly. So here's some examples of the bad things

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Speaker 1: that can happen related to sugar intake. First, let's start

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Speaker 1: with diabetes. As twenty nine point one million people or

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Speaker 1: nine point three percent of the US population of diabetes

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Speaker 1: and that's diagnosed undiagnosed would say eight point one million people,

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Speaker 1: and about a third of the people who have diabetes

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Speaker 1: are undiagnosed obesity. This is a stereotype that comes into

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Speaker 1: play with the us UH, which if you're not, if

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Speaker 1: you haven't ever visited here, I promise you it's it's

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Speaker 1: a pretty cool place. You'll you'll have fun. It's great.

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Speaker 1: Not all the stereotypes are true. More than two thirds,

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Speaker 1: or sixty eight point eight percent of adults are considered

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Speaker 1: by the government to be qualified as either overweight or obese.

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Speaker 1: Um more than one third, thirty five point seven percent

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Speaker 1: of adults are considered to be obese. And then you

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Speaker 1: can see you can see the stats here. One of

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Speaker 1: the biggest killers of any American, regardless of genetic history,

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Speaker 1: creed age, etcetera, is heart disease. It is the leading

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Speaker 1: cause of death for both men and women in this country,

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Speaker 1: about one in every four deaths, and it's the most

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Speaker 1: common type of heart diseases coronary heart disease c h

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Speaker 1: d UH. In two thousand fourteen, it killed about three

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Speaker 1: d sixty five thousand people in this country. Someone has

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Speaker 1: a heart attack every forty two seconds, and each minute

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Speaker 1: someone dies from a heart disease related events. And of

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Speaker 1: course cavities curse you soda geez. So this is this

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Speaker 1: is bad. Sugar is bad, Sugar is is leading to

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Speaker 1: this stuff. Sugar definitely plays a role. It would be

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Speaker 1: irresponsible for us to put everything at the feet of sure,

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Speaker 1: but it definitely, it definitely plays role. And now our

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Speaker 1: question is just how bad is this stuff? And how

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Speaker 1: did we start eating so much of it? Can I

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Speaker 1: say it? Ben? Can I? Here's where it gets you

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Speaker 1: do it? You do it. That's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: In September of three, doctors released a paper in the

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Speaker 1: Journal of the American Medical Association, or, since we're fans

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Speaker 1: of acronyms, jamma jambo, so yes so jamma this This

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Speaker 1: paper was called Sugar Industry and Coronary Heart Disease Research

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Speaker 1: colon a historical analysis of internal industry documents, and this

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Speaker 1: paper revealed frightening evidence of a cover up. Not a

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, oh, friends and neighbors know, a real life conspiracy.

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Speaker 1: Finally got one right. Here's what happened. So there was

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Speaker 1: evidence that sugar had had a role to play in

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Speaker 1: c HD coronary heart disease. We know it now, but

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Speaker 1: other people knew it back in the nineteen fifties. The

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Speaker 1: industry and the people that they were paying to research,

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Speaker 1: knew it, and things were not looking so good for

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Speaker 1: the sugar manufacturers. The science showed that what they were

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Speaker 1: selling and the way they were selling it was potentially

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Speaker 1: very dangerous. So they took action. They came clean and

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Speaker 1: told the public that they would be responsible, and they

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Speaker 1: would they would work with the f d A to

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Speaker 1: restrict unreasonable amounts of sugar. I'm kidding. Instead, they they

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Speaker 1: had a trade organization that was called get this, the

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Speaker 1: Sugar Research Foundation. Sounds legit? Yeah. What did they do? Well?

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Speaker 1: They they went ahead and paid a group of three

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Speaker 1: Harvard scientists the equivalent of about fifty thousand dollars in

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Speaker 1: today's dollars, which is not a bad salary to publish

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Speaker 1: a review of research on sugar in nineteen sixty seven

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Speaker 1: looking at sugar, fat and heart disease. How do these

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Speaker 1: all go together? And what are the causes? What are

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Speaker 1: the what types of cholesterol are affected? Right? And we

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Speaker 1: can also we should explain uh review of research is

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Speaker 1: sort of an anthology kind of thing. They collect different

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Speaker 1: papers that have been written on a subject or a

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Speaker 1: group of subjects or theme. The studies used in this

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Speaker 1: review of research were hand picked by the Sugar Research Foundation,

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Speaker 1: and they also, through their influence, had an article published

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Speaker 1: in the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine. They sponsored

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Speaker 1: this article. It was a literature review that singled out

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Speaker 1: fat and cholesterol as the causes of c H d uh,

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Speaker 1: And they also downplayed evidence that sucros consumption was playing role.

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Speaker 1: They were They were like, ah, you gotta watch out,

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Speaker 1: it was fats. And they did not disclose that they

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Speaker 1: sponsored this. Yeah, that's one of the big things. They

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Speaker 1: also set the objective, so they pretty much told the

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Speaker 1: researchers what they were going to find, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean? And they yeah, And they got drafts that

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Speaker 1: they worked over and had editorial influence on, and the

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Speaker 1: whole thing happened undercover. Essentially, what they end up producing

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Speaker 1: was somewhere between a hit piece and an advertisement in

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Speaker 1: an insiduous way. So then just a clarify, is this

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Speaker 1: something along the lines of a lobby spot on? Well,

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Speaker 1: that's uh, that's a great it's a great point. So

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Speaker 1: let's say that the three of us are sugar tycoons. Yes,

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Speaker 1: perfect just took a different path in life, and now

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Speaker 1: here we are instead of smoking cigars, we all suck

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Speaker 1: on lollipops. Yep, yep, right, we all have very bright

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Speaker 1: colored suits. I think I would go for a Willy

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Speaker 1: Wonka vibe the original movie adaptation, not the not the

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Speaker 1: new one. I'm going full penguin. You're going full penguin.

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Speaker 1: Where are you going to? No? I DoLS love us,

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Speaker 1: wear my cities, swear cities. You're the everyday tech, every

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Speaker 1: day sugar tech. Perfect. Well, the three of us say, well,

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Speaker 1: we need some we we will have power in numbers

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Speaker 1: and we will join uh. We will join our finances

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Speaker 1: to fund a trade organization that will represent us. And

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Speaker 1: this trade organization can do lobbying on our behalf with legislatures,

424
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: you know, like here are if we want favorable tax

425
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 1: breaks in a district, if we want uh some consideration

426
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: or uh special prices on loans for building infrastructure. It's

427
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing, but as potential to be very,

428
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: very damaging. But how does a a group such as

429
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,680
Speaker 1: ours get in such cahoots with what's supposed to be

430
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: an independent review like the the Jama money money. Yes,

431
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: throw money at it. Because this goes back to some

432
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: of the stuff we discussed with Edward Bernese What Bernese

433
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,400
Speaker 1: did that was so brilliant was he realized that if

434
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 1: people thought they were getting unbiased medical advice, then they

435
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: would be more likely to follow it than they would

436
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: the instructions of of a transparent ad Right, it's insidious,

437
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: it's a bait and switch, and it worked really well,

438
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: arguably works today. So the sugar industry kept going. They

439
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,600
Speaker 1: didn't just do this one paper. They didn't do just

440
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: this one area. They sponsored a research program in the

441
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: sixties and into the seventies that continually cast doubt about

442
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: the hazards of sucros like, oh, sugars, I mean, okay,

443
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,760
Speaker 1: don't eat too much sugar. But guys, really that's the

444
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 1: dangerous one here, that's the problem here. Yeah, the sugar

445
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: industry I'm reading from uh that link bend the sugar

446
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: industry and coronary heart disease research paper. Uh. The industry

447
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,440
Speaker 1: would spend six thousand dollars at the time, which is

448
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: now five point three million dollars to teach people, quote

449
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: who had never had a course in biochemistry, that sugar

450
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: is what keeps every human being alive with energy to

451
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: face our daily problems. It just sounds so happy, but

452
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: pepena step with sugar. And and ultimately what they're doing

453
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: is they're they're fighting for market share, right, And when

454
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: you think about market share, I'm going to use the

455
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: video game example right now. Consoles there would be the Xbox,

456
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: the PlayStation, the what the Nintendo Switch, Yeah, the Nintendo Switch,

457
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: and a bunch of other ones console non console games

458
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: like on a PC or something or mac. But each

459
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 1: of those has a certain percent of the market share. Right. Well,

460
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: in this case, for these sugar industry people, their market

461
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 1: share is what people put in their bodies as food, right,

462
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: and the entirety of food. And so by reducing or

463
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 1: making you afraid of fat, they're going to increase overall

464
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: the market share of the food overall, which is crazy

465
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: to think about. And this is not this is not

466
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: to say that consuming excessive amounts of fat is good

467
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 1: for you, not necessarily. Let's also not forget the old

468
00:29:55,720 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: food pyramid, which the tippy tip tip top contains ats, oils,

469
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: and confectionery or that's what they're calling it now, which

470
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: would be sugar. So if they're in a battle with

471
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,520
Speaker 1: the minds of the public in terms of like, well,

472
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:15,479
Speaker 1: I can only have a little of of fats or sugar.

473
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 1: Which one do I perceive as being better or worse

474
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: for me? Which one am I going to choose? So

475
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 1: that's it's like a it's a psychological battle wherein these

476
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: sugar folks are hoping that you will choose sugar because

477
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: it's perceived to be less harmful, and fat sort of

478
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: gets the gets thrown to the bus. And then as

479
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: we know over time, if fats been determined to be

480
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: there are good fats and there are facts that are

481
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: good to have as part of your diet um and

482
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 1: then you know, I think it becomes out on top, yes,

483
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: will said, and in great point bringing in the food pyramid,

484
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,560
Speaker 1: which could be it's a podcast all its so, And

485
00:30:53,800 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: I think when we get to that, uh, where are we?

486
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 1: We're telling you the story of something that actually happened,

487
00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: like no ifs ands or butts, no allegations, no rumors.

488
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: People planned in in a sweet, smoky back room two

489
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: beguile and mislead the u S public and they did

490
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:24,600
Speaker 1: so successfully. So where does this leave us down? We'll

491
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 1: tell you after a word from our sponsor. First off,

492
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: you might be wondering, hey, Matt ha been he know

493
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: what happened to the the SRF, the s RF, Well,

494
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:48,880
Speaker 1: it hit the fan, ben it hit uh, it hit

495
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: the name fan. Because that trade group is still around

496
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: today under a different name. It's called the Sugar Association.

497
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: They have a fancy website. If you're interested, go check

498
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: it out. Um, there's lots of information in there. Yeah,

499
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: you checked it out. I did to spend a little

500
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: too much time on there today and I wanted a donut.

501
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: And here's the other thing. It's bigger than sugar. And

502
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: it's bigger than a single historical incident, right, And I'm

503
00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 1: not casting any aspersion on the current Sugar Association because

504
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 1: we don't I don't have, you know, evidence to do that.

505
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that the same people who are working

506
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: there in the sixties, I'm gonna go ahead and say

507
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: that they're not working there now in probably correct, probably correct.

508
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: I feel safe with that one. But why is it

509
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 1: bigger than sugar. It's bigger than sugar because private food

510
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,080
Speaker 1: manufacturers continue to influence nutrition guidelines today, and it's happening now,

511
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 1: perhaps more than you think. So be very careful when

512
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: you hear those new alarmist pieces about what's good or

513
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 1: what's bad for you. We've joked about it before. It

514
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: seems like every week, every month there's some sort of

515
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,480
Speaker 1: cycle of coffee'll make you live longer and be smarter

516
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: when you're elderly, or coffee will kill you somehow, right,

517
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,720
Speaker 1: I like the ones about tequila, all right, we'll just

518
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: leave that one there. No, Apparently, like you know, you

519
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: can see studies about saying like a glass of wine

520
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: is good for your heart, or like now they're saying

521
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: tequila is good for you. I hadn't heard this one.

522
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to go buy a bottle. I guess, yeah,

523
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: for your health, very health conscious. Yeah, And then it

524
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: can apply also to sodas, right, beverage manufacturers, it can

525
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: apply to um pork manufacturers. It's it's kind of tough

526
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: to see to to figure out if food where this

527
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 1: would not apply. You know, yeah, I cannot find one.

528
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: And just thinking about all the different kinds of berries.

529
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 1: They are great for you, but they do have a

530
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: lot of naturally occurring sugar, right, which is fine, And

531
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: that's is that ultimately the best the best process to

532
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: take is if you hear, oh uh, like, what's a

533
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: random vegetable m M artichoke. Oh, it turns out that

534
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: artichokes give you these vast superior powers of hearing or whatever.

535
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: Sweet right, or if you hear something that's that's very bad,

536
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 1: Like is all cancer related to consuming cheese? It's Those

537
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: are both pretty unrealistic, cartoonish headlines. But the point is

538
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: your best processes, that is, to take that and before

539
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 1: you share it around with people, before you start going

540
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: to throw out all your cheesets or by all the

541
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 1: artichokes in your town, figure out who wrote it. Do

542
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: that old fakes. Turns out that thing I said about

543
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 1: tequila not not true, not true? Really yeah, snope says

544
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: mostly faults. Wait wait, so partially true. Also artichoke is

545
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 1: a flowers. Oh boy, well that just makes the headline

546
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 1: even more cartoonish. So the answers you find might surprise you.

547
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: There might be a situation where you see a very strange,

548
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 1: sort of anonymous sounding block name blas a name where

549
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,440
Speaker 1: we go, oh, all right, well this was according you know,

550
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: this is according to the the Committee for the Committee

551
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: for Accuracy in Grain Related Health. And then you do

552
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 1: some searching on them and you go, oh, they're owned

553
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: by uh, you know, as some rival to cheese. It's right,

554
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: they're owned by like Horrible Red and Backer. But the

555
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: the point here is that this stuff, the stuff can

556
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: have the appearance of unbiased quantitative data, and it's not

557
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: always true. I have to ask you, guys, what do

558
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: you think about the state of I guess, the state

559
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: of mass produced food here in the US. That's what

560
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about. I feel like we're at

561
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: this weird point in history in this country where we

562
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: are pushing back towards manufactured foods. Not that we're not

563
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 1: purchasing them anymore or consuming them. We are pushing back

564
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: with the organic movement and trying to move away from

565
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. But it's unfortunately, it feels like

566
00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 1: to me, at least, something that can't truly come to

567
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: fruition because we have so many humans that we need

568
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: to feed, so many animals we need to feed to

569
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: feed the humans, and we're going to have to continue

570
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: to process this stuff. And sugar is a pretty ideal

571
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: source of calories. I mean, it really is. If you

572
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,400
Speaker 1: just need to get calories and energy to move and function,

573
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 1: then it seems like it's a no brainer that we

574
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 1: need sugar and we should keep eating it and talking

575
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,399
Speaker 1: about this makes me wonder how many times we've said

576
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: the word sugar in this episode And does anybody else

577
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 1: have a craving now that we've spent this long examining this, Uh, sugar, sugar, sugar, honey, honey,

578
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: I'm done. I thought that was good. How it was

579
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: How did the riff go that we were doing earlier?

580
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 1: Baby boom boom boom. Sure, fantastic, guys. Uh. The the

581
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 1: point here, of course, is is not to vilify sugar,

582
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,279
Speaker 1: and yes, what these people did in the sixties and seventies,

583
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: for this particular instance, we're in the wrong. Uh. The

584
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: point is just to just to do our best to

585
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: be aware of this stuff, and it can be challenging.

586
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: You know, we live in a place where a lot

587
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 1: of very large companies have bought up a bunch of things.

588
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 1: You know, you might be surprised how many seemingly different

589
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: products sen your local grocery store are ultimately owned by

590
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:08,520
Speaker 1: one corporation. Right, even products that seem to compete. This

591
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: amount of influence and power can be leveraged in unexpected

592
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: and surprising ways. I think I'm going to Uh, I might,

593
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, I might drink a soda. Don't do it,

594
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 1: You're right. What what you what you can do right

595
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: now is go to sugar dot org and look at

596
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: the member companies and you can find yourself a whole

597
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:35,759
Speaker 1: list here of sugar tycoons. We've got Domino Sugar, which

598
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: is now I guess the American Sugar Refining Incorporated. There's

599
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: Amalgamated Sugar Company. Is Imperial Sugar on that? Imperial Sugar

600
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: is most definitely on here. Remember that insane fire at

601
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: the Imperial Sugar Refinery and Savannah that UM sent a

602
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: bunch of people to burn unit like it was a

603
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: whole disaster sugar dust, and it created all kinds of

604
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 1: new interest and regulations about sugar manufacturing because apparently sugar

605
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: dust is incredibly flammable and it can collect on eaves

606
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: and beams in the building and there it's combustible. So

607
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: one little poof and it can, you know, be all

608
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,760
Speaker 1: over UM. So this is two eight. I was working

609
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,479
Speaker 1: for Georgia Public Radio at the time, and the most

610
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: advanced burned unit in the area was in Augusta, UM,

611
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: where I was based, and so we covered that story

612
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,479
Speaker 1: pretty extensively. It was it was a big, huge, huge deal. Man.

613
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sorry, I'm just looking at it online.

614
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: UM check it out. It's called the two thousand eight

615
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: Georgia Sugar Refinery Explosion. And this concludes our episode, but

616
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: of course not our show. We hope that you enjoyed

617
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: what we explored today. We also hope that if you

618
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: want to learn more about sugar, you avail yourself of

619
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: our parent website, how Stuff Works, which has a pretty

620
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 1: pretty solid article on how sugar works. There's also stuff

621
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: in there about how fruit toast corn syrup works. But

622
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: there's a whole branching set of articles you can get to.

623
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: You are invited officially, ladies and gentlemen, to fall down

624
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: a sugar rabbit hole with us, as well as to

625
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: the other podcast our sister and brother podcasts that exist

626
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: here at how Stuff Works. And I also like to

627
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 1: take this opportunity to plug a new podcast that friend

628
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: of the show, Lauren Vogelbaum has been on talking about

629
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: diamonds um is on now called food Stuff that just

630
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,560
Speaker 1: launched today that the day that we're recording this Wednesday,

631
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: March the first. Uh. Their first episode is about champagne

632
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: and sparkling wine and uh, it's pretty cool stuff. Yes,

633
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: check it out. They'll also have some videos coming out.

634
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 1: And you know what, that Diamond episode holds up, It

635
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: really does. It holds up in a frightening and terrifying

636
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: And I just have to quickly mention that Annie is

637
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: also on this pretty sir, Annie, who worked on stuff

638
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,359
Speaker 1: Mom never told you for its entirety, She's now on

639
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: this show behind the mic. Yeah, like me, making the

640
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: jump from producer to performer. Yes, but she's a paid

641
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: actor already, so she's gonna be awesome. And we think

642
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: that if you like our show, you will love this one.

643
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: So check us out. Check it out food Stuff. You

644
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: can find it wherever you find our podcast, and let

645
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,040
Speaker 1: us know what you think. They're also pretty cool people.

646
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:29,920
Speaker 1: If you have an idea for an episode they should

647
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,879
Speaker 1: cover in the future right in let him know. There's

648
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 1: a lot of weird food stuff out there. There is

649
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,839
Speaker 1: uh And speaking of listener mail, I think it's time

650
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: for shut at Conners. Our first shout out comes from

651
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: Lorenzo from Sweden. He says, Hey, I'm listening to your

652
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: podcast while I work. So here's a story that they

653
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: don't want you to know. And it's alchemy related the

654
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: anatomical machines of San serv San Servo Chapel. Never heard

655
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: of this. These things exist and are exhibited in Naples, Italy.

656
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: If you visit this chapel in the underground chamber they're located. Uh.

657
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: Probably the most famous anatomical machines. Either these are not

658
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,520
Speaker 1: early robots or something similar. They are skeletons of a

659
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 1: man and woman in an upright position. The artery and

660
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: vein systems are almost in perfect condition. Just want to

661
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: really quick This sounds like what's the human exhibit? The

662
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 1: human bodies? Bodies bodies. Yeah, that's what I'm already seeing

663
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: in my head. Um, these machines were made by the

664
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: doctor Giuseppe Salermo of Palermo under the direction of this

665
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: other guy. With the discovery of deeds and notes, it's

666
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: possible that these things were created in seventeen sixty three

667
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: or sixty four. That is a long time ago. What

668
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 1: makes it even more interesting interesting is that until now

669
00:42:49,840 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: scientists have no idea which procedures or materials were used

670
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: to make these things. Um to obtain such an exceptional

671
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: preservation of the circulatory system, and he's left a place

672
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: where we can go and learn more about it. That's yeah,

673
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go check that out as soon. I'm gonna

674
00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 1: go check that out. And I already feel the rabbit

675
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: hole opening. Their mystery is a foot, and thank you

676
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: for right in and learn. Our next shout out, this

677
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 1: one is a This one's a little bit long, but

678
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: I'm so I'm gonna read selected parts of it if

679
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 1: that's cool. Our second shout out today is a little

680
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: bit longer. I'm going to read just some excerpts of it.

681
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 1: From night Bringer two thousand. Night Bringer two thousand says,

682
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: I just finished listening to your did the US abandoned

683
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: soldiers in Vietnam War episode and reminded me of a

684
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: story I heard from a friend of the family that

685
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 1: was in Vietnam. Prompted me to write in was the

686
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: part where you discussed the possibility that perhaps some soldiers

687
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 1: were left behind because release or return home could implicate

688
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: the US being involved in war crimes. To me, this

689
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: seems plausible for some individuals who didn't return home based

690
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: on the story I'm about to share. And he says

691
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: he granted, it's only here safe for him, but he

692
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:06,240
Speaker 1: believes that this person was telling the truth, and here's

693
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,400
Speaker 1: the story. At one point during his service in Vietnam,

694
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 1: as they were pushing inland, they were in a valley.

695
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: At the top of the inland side of the valley

696
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 1: was a village that they were tasked with securing. Because

697
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,759
Speaker 1: the dense jungle terrain and the defending Vietnamese had an

698
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,560
Speaker 1: elevation advantage their unit, the U. S unit, was having

699
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: a lot of difficulty even progressing towards the village, let

700
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 1: alone securing it. They tried for several days but were

701
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,799
Speaker 1: unable to gain any ground, and finally the officer in

702
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: charge conceded that they weren't going to secure the village

703
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,400
Speaker 1: without additional help. He made a call to his superiors

704
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: informing him of the situation. Was told assistance would be

705
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:41,439
Speaker 1: sent and that they would need to hold the ground

706
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,920
Speaker 1: for a couple more days. After a few days, they

707
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 1: get word that helicopters are coming and they need to

708
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: secure landing zone. When the helicopters arrived, only a small

709
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:54,040
Speaker 1: squad of six to eight soldiers get out. His friend

710
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: doesn't know if these are Navy Seals, Delta Force Force

711
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: Recon or some other special forces unit. He's a whose

712
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: they might have even been mercenaries, but they were definitely

713
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 1: not regular infantry. They weren't wearing fatigues, they didn't have

714
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: name tags, they did not identify nor introduce themselves. They

715
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: only talked briefly to the highest ranking officer in the area.

716
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: So they're talking about you know, the soldiers were understandably

717
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,399
Speaker 1: upset because they thought, how are these six to eight

718
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: guys going to help us? And then one of the

719
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 1: Special Forces guys overhears the overhears the folks arguing about it,

720
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: and he walks over and interjects with a comment along

721
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: the lines of you guys have been here what two weeks,

722
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: and you couldn't take this hill. So they have to

723
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 1: fly our asses out there to cover you and do

724
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: your job. We're going to take this hill and one

725
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: night and then you guys are going to feel real

726
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,799
Speaker 1: extra stupid, and he walks away. Fast forward. Once it

727
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 1: starts getting dark, these Special Forces guys are packing it

728
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: in to go, he says. Once it's start, they all

729
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: disappear into the jungle and what becomes an otherwise uneventful night.

730
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: The next morning is daylight's dawning. They come walking down

731
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 1: the hill into camp. They tell the first group of infantrymen,

732
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: the village is yours now. These guys were pretty confused

733
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: because they hadn't heard a single shot the night before.

734
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: The Special Ops guys go report to the commanding officer. Uh.

735
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 1: The commanding officer tells them to pack up and proceed

736
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 1: to the village. They're expected and resistance, so they're easing

737
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: their way up to the hill carefully. No resistance to

738
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: the village once they got there was silent. It appeared empty,

739
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 1: he said. A lot of guys were confused, wondering if

740
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: the villagers had just happened to choose to abandon the

741
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: village that previous evening. As they started sweeping the village,

742
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,840
Speaker 1: they were checking huts, and they found the village was

743
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: not empty or abandoned at all, he said. As they

744
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: went from hut to hut, they found the villagers, the

745
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: entire village, men, women, and children all dead. It appeared

746
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 1: that most, if not all, died from knife wounds, with

747
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: a lot of them having slashed throats, and many of

748
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: them still in their beds. He doesn't know exactly what

749
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: happened that night, but the thought and talk amongst the

750
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 1: regular infantrymen is that the Special Forces guys must have

751
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 1: silently killed the guards and then went from hut to

752
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,319
Speaker 1: hut and killed the villagers while they were sleeping. He

753
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:03,320
Speaker 1: said there were many of dozens of people in the village,

754
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: all of them dead after single night and not a

755
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: shot heard. He said, this is the most disturbing thing

756
00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:12,760
Speaker 1: he's ever seen, and then he'll never forget it. So wow.

757
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 1: So this is talking about a war crime, and this

758
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,280
Speaker 1: is why, according to night Bringer two thousand, he believes

759
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: it's completely plausible that some people would have been left

760
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: behind if they were compromised in the execution of an

761
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: operation like this. This is scary, scary stuff. Thank you

762
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 1: for writing to a s Nightbringer and folks say, I

763
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 1: know that one was a little bit longer than normal,

764
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 1: but try to edit it a little for time, and

765
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 1: we think it's an important story. So pretty grizzly, I'll

766
00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: say that. And on a to end, on a slightly

767
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,240
Speaker 1: less gruesome note, we have a shout out from Stephen

768
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: or Stefan from Melbourne, Australia. He says, Hi, guys, a

769
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,840
Speaker 1: massive fan of the show, absolutely love it. Request a

770
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 1: shout out to my girlfriend Chris Chrystalla. Chrystalla, what do

771
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: you think Chrystalla, we hope we got it right. Stephen

772
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,200
Speaker 1: or Stefan shout out, gosh, we're really butchering this one.

773
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,360
Speaker 1: Um I would love to hear more episodes on the

774
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: following topics UFOs and aliens check w W two Nazi

775
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: conspiracies would love to do that, such as the Nazi

776
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: bell ship. Are you aware of that one? Then? Oh? Yes,

777
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 1: this is the idea of this. This is the idea

778
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 1: that the Nazi Party discovered uh an energy that essentially

779
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: changed the rules of gravity, and that it was a

780
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 1: bell shaped object that was either used to produce this

781
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: or was itself the vehicle Nazi Bell. Interesting. And then

782
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,720
Speaker 1: finally one that we've been talking about a lot lately,

783
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,399
Speaker 1: ghosts and paranormal activity. Um I would say chances are

784
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,520
Speaker 1: good to get something on every single one of those

785
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: at some point this year. Yeah, we haven't done a

786
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 1: full Nazi bell when we did magic, No, we didn't.

787
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,520
Speaker 1: We haven't done audio podcasts on any of this stuff.

788
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 1: We haven't have we here, we're gonna go back through.

789
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,400
Speaker 1: We're gonna do all this stuff. You're gonna love it.

790
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:15,880
Speaker 1: Stefan and Chrystala shout out Crystala, Stephen Stefun, thank you

791
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 1: so much for writing in with those excellent topic recommendations

792
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 1: and I can't believe that we forgot to do those.

793
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: It's great and this concludes. Gosh, how cool is it

794
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,360
Speaker 1: that there are people in Melbourne listening to us? It

795
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Thank you. We appreciate your time. I'd love

796
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: to go visit there sometime. Absolutely, So if you want

797
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,160
Speaker 1: to write to us, you have anything to share, a comment,

798
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: an opinion about something, or a story you'd like to

799
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,959
Speaker 1: weave that maybe we'll say on the show, or something

800
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,399
Speaker 1: your fellow listeners need to know. Then you can find

801
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: us on Facebook. You can find us on Twitter. You

802
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram where Conspiracy Stuff at the

803
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 1: first two, Conspiracy Stuff Show at the third one, and

804
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,959
Speaker 1: you can check out every single audio episode that Noel,

805
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: Matt and I have ever done on our website Deep

806
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: Breath stuff. They don't want you to know dot com Boom,

807
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: you got it, hey, and this is you know. We're

808
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: gonna keep doing this until we get to April. But

809
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,239
Speaker 1: guess what we are will be performing live in New

810
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:21,799
Speaker 1: York City on April eight this year. It is so

811
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 1: hard not to just yell, New York City. I know

812
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:29,280
Speaker 1: it's a Saturday, it's an early show. It's at one pm,

813
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: and it's in Brooklyn at the Bell House. Is in

814
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:34,800
Speaker 1: the name of the bar and venue, not related to

815
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: the Nazi Bell that's correct. If you go to NYC

816
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: podfest dot com right now, you can get tickets. They're

817
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: only twelve dollars. If you show up in Brooklyn like

818
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 1: that day, it'll be fifteen dollars. So I'd say purchase,

819
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: purchase them in advance. And uh, it's also selling out

820
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 1: according to the promoter. But maybe that's just smoke. I

821
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,400
Speaker 1: don't know. I hope we can get in. Do you

822
00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: think we might not be able to get into our

823
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 1: own shows? That would be a to obummer. That would

824
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: be hilarious. By the way, that show is with Majority Report,

825
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:08,399
Speaker 1: which is another podcast and radio show. And who's who's

826
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: gonna be with here? Oh? Just a little person by

827
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,520
Speaker 1: the name of Janine Garofalo from Wet Hot American Summer

828
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: Hey Man. Yeah, as you know, stand up comedy and

829
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 1: was in a Mystery Man Mystery along with Tom Waits.

830
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: I had a massive crush on Janine in the nineties.

831
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: Sames um we gotta keep it cool though. Guys. Okay, yeah,

832
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: everybody play cool, don't embarrass me. Yes, you can see us. Uh.

833
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 1: We have so many questions out ending Will you meet

834
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: the guys in New York? Will we be able to

835
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: behave and not turn into fanboys around childhood crushes? Will

836
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 1: we be back next week? Spoiler alert? The answer is yes.

837
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: See and in the meantime, if you want to contact us,

838
00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: but you don't play the social meet your rigamarole game,

839
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: then you can email us directly. We are conspiracy at

840
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com.