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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of five

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryan over there,

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Speaker 1: and Jerry's out there running around somewhere. We just gave

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Speaker 1: her a hot foot. It's hilarious. Uh, and this is

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Speaker 1: stuff you should not tried. Are continuing exploration of pain? Mhm.

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Speaker 1: What else have we talked about with paint? We did

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Speaker 1: one on the pain scales, okay a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: and uh, then we did one on something about perceiving pain. Well,

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Speaker 1: this one, this one, this is just totally stuff you

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Speaker 1: should know them because we did a bunch of like

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Speaker 1: more niche stuff and now we're going back and doing

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Speaker 1: like the umbrella topic and we're talking about pain, which, Um,

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Speaker 1: is there a super ancient old evolutionary Um, right, I

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Speaker 1: guess that's shared basically throughout all living things. I would

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Speaker 1: say it's a pretty fair guess. I think so, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because um, there's something that pain pain specifically, which is this.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into defining it and how hard that is

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Speaker 1: in a second, but um, it seems to be a

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Speaker 1: a fairly universal, almost universal process where our body says, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's something really bad going on, say on your hand,

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Speaker 1: So move your hand away from wherever it is in

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Speaker 1: space right now, and hopefully that will help keep it

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Speaker 1: from getting further damage. Like pain is a signal saying, um,

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Speaker 1: do something, dummy, move and it's it. I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: that's you know, you see it in and basically any

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Speaker 1: animal we've ever encountered, including the beaver and the porcupine.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And by the way, we did other people

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Speaker 1: who can't feel pain ten years ago. Yeah, it actually

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Speaker 1: seems longer ago than that. That's funny because I thought

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Speaker 1: pain Scales was forever ago and it was so Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I have no sense of time anymore. So, so we

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Speaker 1: are talking about pain, Chuck, you feel pain right or

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Speaker 1: do you have a high pain threshold? Are you sensitive? Uh? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know it's funny because I went back and listen

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Speaker 1: to the Pain Scales and I kind of chatted about

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Speaker 1: that for a bit. But I have a pretty high

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Speaker 1: pain threshold. Yeah, okay, I would say mine's average. Let's

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Speaker 1: just go with that. I wonder what I said in

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Speaker 1: the Pain Scales app because there's no way I didn't

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Speaker 1: respond to your your thing you know it will be

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Speaker 1: a mystery. So um. Apparently pain is the most common

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Speaker 1: reason that people, um go seek medical attention. But when

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Speaker 1: they go seek medical attention, as we talked about in

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Speaker 1: the pain Scales episode, the whole reason there is such

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Speaker 1: a thing as a pain scale is because it's a

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Speaker 1: fully subjective experience and it's really difficult to describe. And

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Speaker 1: it's taken medicine, like many, many years to get to

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Speaker 1: a point where they tell the people their training, doctors

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Speaker 1: and nurse practitioners and medical staff, like, if somebody tells

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Speaker 1: you they're in pain, they're experiencing pain, you have to

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Speaker 1: take them at their word. Um. And that's actually kind

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Speaker 1: of a new development because there are plenty of times

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Speaker 1: when it appears that there's absolutely nothing wrong and that

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Speaker 1: the person shouldn't be in pain. And for years doctors

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Speaker 1: just kind of treated people like like that like kooks

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Speaker 1: and didn't believe them, which was very sad. And now

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Speaker 1: we're finally figuring out there's situations where you can be

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Speaker 1: experiencing pain even though there's no reason for you to

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Speaker 1: be experiencing pain, which really underscores just how subjective it is.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. In three, there was an actual definition

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Speaker 1: for pain that was introduced that has a couple of

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Speaker 1: really important caveats that will kind of play out through

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Speaker 1: this episode. Pain is an unpleasant, sensory and emotional experience.

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Speaker 1: There's the first caveat associated with actual or potential tissue

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Speaker 1: damage or described in terms of such damage, which is

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Speaker 1: a big caveat there, because you can walk into a

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Speaker 1: doctor's office and say, I've got some big time tissue damage. Doc,

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Speaker 1: I'm experiencing big time pain, and they can look you

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Speaker 1: over and be like, this guy didn't have any tissue

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Speaker 1: damage at all. So that's in the actual definition of

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Speaker 1: pain of pain. So I think that the reason they

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Speaker 1: caveatted that was for the very simple reason that pain

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Speaker 1: can be emotional. And I don't mean like real emotional pain.

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Speaker 1: I mean a physical pain that is may be made

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Speaker 1: worse by emotion or brought on by emotion, or that

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Speaker 1: you're you know, you really don't have a pain, like

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Speaker 1: you've got a chronic pain, let's say, but nothing's going

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Speaker 1: on under the hood to cause it. Yeah, And like

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Speaker 1: we've learned so much about pain since nineteen seventy three

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Speaker 1: that I saw that just this past July, um the

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Speaker 1: International Association for the Study of Pain updated and revised

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Speaker 1: their their definition. It's still basically the same, but they've

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Speaker 1: included a lot of stuff that we talk we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about in this episode. Does it say pain

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Speaker 1: whatever you say, dude, right yea, they said pain is uh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is so far at least. Um. There's a bunch

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Speaker 1: of different types of pain, though actually not that many,

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Speaker 1: but there's a few. Acute pain, which is very short lasting.

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Speaker 1: If you if you put your finger on the burner

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Speaker 1: of the stove or something like that, or um, slam

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Speaker 1: it in a window, that's going to be an acute

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Speaker 1: pain where you know it's really helpful, so you know

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Speaker 1: your body is gonna say, wait a minute, that's super hot.

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Speaker 1: Or by the way, dummy, you just put your finger

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Speaker 1: in a window and you immediately have a reaction to

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Speaker 1: stop that immediate acute thing from happening, even though the

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Speaker 1: pain is gonna still be there. It's not like you

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Speaker 1: slam your finger in the window, yank your thing away

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Speaker 1: and shake it a little bit and it's gone. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: it can be depending on the level of pain, but

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Speaker 1: it makes sense that it would still linger even in

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Speaker 1: acute paint, which from what I can tell, is like

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Speaker 1: the ideal version of pain. It's, like you said, it

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Speaker 1: makes you stop doing whatever you're doing, but the fact

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Speaker 1: that it still hangs around for another minute, it's almost

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Speaker 1: like it's teaching you a lesson, like not only stop

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Speaker 1: doing that, don't do that again. Yeah, and there's some

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Speaker 1: overlap in these, by the way, So when we talk

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Speaker 1: about the next one, no susceptive pain, this comes about

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Speaker 1: from tissue damage, like real tissue damaged by like physical

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Speaker 1: or a chemical agent. We're talking a chemical burn, or

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Speaker 1: a trauma or a surgery. This can also include slamming

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Speaker 1: that finger in the window. It can also include you

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Speaker 1: worked out really hard the day before and you're really

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Speaker 1: sore the next day. Yeah, as long as there's some

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Speaker 1: sort of like mechanical reason or some sort of damage

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Speaker 1: to tissue, or even temporary damage like a sore sore muscle.

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Speaker 1: Um And it also includes malignant pain, which is cancer pain,

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Speaker 1: which is where tumor starts growing in your tissue, impresses

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Speaker 1: on nerves and blood vessels and create pain like that.

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Speaker 1: And no, no susceptive pain is what most people think

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Speaker 1: of when they think about pain. Um And it can

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Speaker 1: be both acute and chronic. But I guess the best

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Speaker 1: way to kind of differentiate no susceptive pain from the

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Speaker 1: rest of it, there's actually something going on that is

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Speaker 1: causing the pain signal to be created. Um And it,

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Speaker 1: like I said, it can be short lasting or long lasting. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's different from a different type of pain, appropriately

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Speaker 1: enough called neuropathic pain. Whereas no susceptive arise from arises

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Speaker 1: from tissue damage, neuropathic arises from damage to the actual

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Speaker 1: nerves themselves. Yeah. Like, uh, I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: remember this story from almost a year ago. It was

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Speaker 1: last October when I hit my shin on my bed

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Speaker 1: so hard that water started leaking out of my eyes.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't crying, it was just literally water coming out

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Speaker 1: of my eyes. And I've never felt pain like that before.

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Speaker 1: And it was clearly some kind of literal nerve damage

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Speaker 1: because for three or four months, I had like a

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Speaker 1: three uh three inch by three inch square on my

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Speaker 1: shin that was completely numb. And uh, it's it's the

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Speaker 1: worst pain, like physical pain I've ever felt in my life.

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Speaker 1: They I mean, that would definitely qualifies neuropathic pain. You

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Speaker 1: clearly messed up the nerves in that little area. UM,

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Speaker 1: and you're lucky that it only lasted three months, because

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Speaker 1: apparently neuropathic pain, which can include everything from hitting your

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Speaker 1: shin to banging your funny bone, your elbow UM two

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Speaker 1: things like sciatica or even multiple sclerosis. Anytime the neurons

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Speaker 1: in your nerve fibers are are damaged. UM, that's neuropathic pain,

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Speaker 1: and it can last. It can very easily translate from

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Speaker 1: acute pain over to chronic pain, which is pain that

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Speaker 1: last six months or longer um, which can itself be

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Speaker 1: no susceptive or neuropathic. Uh. It can also, unfortunately be psychogenic.

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Speaker 1: Chronic pain can be, which is where you have lasting, uh,

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Speaker 1: sustained pain over six months or longer um for no

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Speaker 1: good reason whatsoever. Yeah, and this is you know, it

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Speaker 1: gets really sort of murky and confusing. Here. We are

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Speaker 1: not saying that chronic pain is all in your head,

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Speaker 1: but we're saying that in some cases that there there

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Speaker 1: is no reason behind you continuing to feel chronic pain.

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Speaker 1: But so many people suffer from chronic pain. I think

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Speaker 1: roughly it kind of varies, you know, depending on the year.

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Speaker 1: But somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty adult Americans suffer

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Speaker 1: chronic pain every single year. Um, And it's when you

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Speaker 1: hear people talk about that, like, uh, I just feel

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Speaker 1: bad for him. I can't imagine what it's like to

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Speaker 1: walk around in constant pain, and it's probably even more

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Speaker 1: frustrating when a doctor can't trace it to a thing like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we fixed that. It shouldn't be hurting anymore, right, especially

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Speaker 1: if they're being patronizing and treating you like your cook, Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a bad doctor. You should not go. Sure, But again,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like I feel like people with fibromyalgia or

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Speaker 1: chronic fatigue. I don't know if you experience pain with

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Speaker 1: chronic fatigue, but have long been treated like their nuts,

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Speaker 1: like it's all in their heads, just because you know,

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Speaker 1: science has not been able to identify exactly what the

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Speaker 1: deal is. Yeah, I would say, if your doctor is

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Speaker 1: like that, go to a doctor with a little better

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Speaker 1: bedside manner. At least they might be saying the same thing.

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Speaker 1: But they would should treat you with respect. And if

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Speaker 1: if they're wearing oversized clown shoes, so much the better.

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Speaker 1: That's usually it did give way for a great doctor,

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Speaker 1: that's right. Um, I don't think we said that, uh,

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Speaker 1: we we talked about no susceptive pain, but no susception

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Speaker 1: is taken from the Latin word for hurt, and um

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Speaker 1: pain is its own thing like pain perception. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about what's going on with the central nervous system, uh

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Speaker 1: the peripheral central nervous system as well, and how it

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Speaker 1: processes this information is really uh interesting and still cloudy

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Speaker 1: because the brain is involved. And we've done dozens and

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Speaker 1: dozens of podcasts that involved the brain, and at some

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Speaker 1: point during all of them we usually say something like,

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Speaker 1: this is kind of their best guess right now, because

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Speaker 1: the brain is still such a mystery. Yeah, we have

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Speaker 1: made like advances by leaps and bounds since the sixties

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Speaker 1: when we kind of started to change our understanding of

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Speaker 1: pain and definitely refining it. But one of the things

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Speaker 1: we figured out is that no susception itself is separate

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Speaker 1: from the experience of pain. It's like the body giving

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Speaker 1: the brain information about something that's going on with your

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Speaker 1: body right now, but it's not pain itself. Pain is

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Speaker 1: the brain responding to that information, and so no susception,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see, is kind of this process where your

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Speaker 1: body um detects some sort of noxious stimuli UH, and

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Speaker 1: the no susceptors your specific kind of UM little sense

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Speaker 1: receptors that are tuned to pain. As we'll talk about UM.

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Speaker 1: They send a signal to your brain saying, hey, there's

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Speaker 1: something going on here, and then in your brain, your

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Speaker 1: your brain starts sort through the whole thing and decides

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Speaker 1: how to respond. So no susception and pain they're very

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Speaker 1: much intertwined, but they're definitely different things, and we've actually

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Speaker 1: seen that one can exist without the other. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean they've done studies that UM and I. I mean

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Speaker 1: we had to have talked about this and other people

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Speaker 1: that can't feel pain UM congenital analgesia. I don't remember

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Speaker 1: ever saying those words before. I think we had to

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Speaker 1: have There's no way, although knowing us, it's possible we

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Speaker 1: walked around that one. Well maybe so. But there are studies,

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Speaker 1: including ones on that people who can't feel pain, that

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Speaker 1: have shown that no susception can occur without the experience

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Speaker 1: of pain, and UM pain can be experienced with the

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Speaker 1: absence of no susception. So it's sort of a two

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Speaker 1: way street. Yeah, that's like that psychogenic pain where you

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Speaker 1: there's no reason for you to be feeling that pain

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Speaker 1: right then, right, yeah, And because it's the brain, it's

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Speaker 1: um and you put in here it's like it sounds funny,

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Speaker 1: but your brain is what's feeling the pain. Like when

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Speaker 1: you smash that hand in a window. Um, you might

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Speaker 1: think that your hand feeling the pain, but technically it's

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Speaker 1: your brain, if that makes sense. Yeah, or even that

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Speaker 1: like you're you're that hand that window smashing your hand

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Speaker 1: set off a specific unique kind of um uh signal

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Speaker 1: that that transmits a pain signal directly your brain. Your

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Speaker 1: brain experiences the pain. That's just not quite right. That's

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Speaker 1: actually Renee des cartes interpretation of it, and can so well.

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Speaker 1: Considering he was working in the first half of the

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Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds, he wasn't that far off the mark, especially

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Speaker 1: considering that before him the Greeks had thought up basically

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Speaker 1: up to day car, everyone had thought, starting with the Greeks,

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Speaker 1: that pain was like a spirit intrusion, it was like

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Speaker 1: something external at all. And in fact, our word pain

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Speaker 1: comes from uh pena like subpoena, which means penalty. So

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Speaker 1: this like pain was considered a punishment from the gods

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Speaker 1: um And Dave Carr was like, no, I think this

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Speaker 1: is an internal process, and he had like the broad

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Speaker 1: strokes of it. It's just that he didn't have the

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Speaker 1: details that we have now today. Yeah, he kind of

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Speaker 1: got well he got one half of it pretty right. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I mentioned it was a two way street. It's

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Speaker 1: a two way street in a lot of ways. Because

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Speaker 1: what we've learned since decart is that we do have

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Speaker 1: pain signals that go up from nerves in the body

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Speaker 1: to the brain to say hey, I'm hurt. Those are

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Speaker 1: called ascending signals. But then we also have another signal

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Speaker 1: going I'm just gonna call it downstream for lack of

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Speaker 1: a better term, descending signals that come from the brain

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Speaker 1: that can kind of mute the pain or turn off

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Speaker 1: the pain signals. And that's you know, as we'll see

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Speaker 1: later when it comes to medication and stuff. It's sort

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Speaker 1: of managing that way, like whatever traffic light is on

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Speaker 1: that two way street. Yeah, well that was like a

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Speaker 1: huge thing, Chuck, like to figure out that. Wait a minute, Like,

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Speaker 1: first of all, the experience of pain is totally in

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Speaker 1: the in the brain. Right, your hand itself isn't actually hurting.

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Speaker 1: Your brain is hurt is what hurts. It just feels

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Speaker 1: like it's coming from your hand. And then secondly, the

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Speaker 1: idea that your brain can influence this the experience of pain,

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Speaker 1: that was just revolutionary. And so as a result, we've

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Speaker 1: come to kind of see pain as the brain. There's

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Speaker 1: a neuroscentist name vs. Rama Shan Droton who's just brilliant

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Speaker 1: and he um, he said that pain. This is paraphrasing him.

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Speaker 1: He said that pain is the brain's opinion of the

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Speaker 1: current state of your health. You got no pain, It's

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Speaker 1: all good. You've got pain. Your brain is interpreting there's

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Speaker 1: something wrong with like your hand or your leg, or

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Speaker 1: your guts or something like that. And it's just an opinion.

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Speaker 1: And the opinion can be gotten wrong too. Well, you

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Speaker 1: know what they say about opinions. Yeah, everybody's got an

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Speaker 1: elbow of them. All right, I think we should take

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Speaker 1: a break and we're gonna come back and dive into

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Speaker 1: some hard science right after this. Alrighty, so your brain

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Speaker 1: has an opinion about the current state of your health. Um,

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Speaker 1: we're still at the stage where we're sort of testing

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Speaker 1: out how pain is generated and how we experience it.

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Speaker 1: But what we kind of think right now is what

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Speaker 1: we mentioned a little bit earlier is that some of

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Speaker 1: the sense receptors located on the nerve endings are really

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Speaker 1: finely tuned two different kinds of UM, different kinds of pain,

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Speaker 1: but really tuned to different kinds of thing that might

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Speaker 1: cause pain, like a hot stove or a needle going

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Speaker 1: to your arm. Yeah. And you can pretty much divide

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Speaker 1: them into three categories. Mechanical which is pulling, stretching, tearing, cutting, chemical,

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Speaker 1: which say like exposure to acid or something, and then

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Speaker 1: thermal like like heat or cold. Um. And the idea

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Speaker 1: that these no susceptors are capable of being triggered by

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Speaker 1: exposure to those kind of stimuli from the external world,

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Speaker 1: that that is what kicks off the no susception process. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they, uh, they're all very different and they have

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Speaker 1: different ways of communicating with the brain. Um. There are

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Speaker 1: some that do things really really fast. Uh. These U

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Speaker 1: there are some called a fibers. They have a little

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Speaker 1: it's kind of like a little express train instead of

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Speaker 1: having to make stops along the way, has a fatty

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Speaker 1: mile in sheath that's going to insulate the electro conduction

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Speaker 1: basically on the wire and it really just zaps it.

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Speaker 1: They're really really fast not a lot of information losses

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Speaker 1: going on. And that's like that first really intense pain

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Speaker 1: you feel when you burn your hand or when you

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Speaker 1: slam it into the window. Is that's kind of what's

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Speaker 1: going on with the A fibers, right, And then you've

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Speaker 1: got sea fibers, which aren't insulated and they are slower conducting,

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Speaker 1: but they also have a bunch of they recruit a

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Speaker 1: bunch of them to conduct signals from different parts of

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Speaker 1: different areas um to the brain to say, hey, this

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Speaker 1: is this is actually pretty pretty problematic. We got a

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Speaker 1: real thing going on here. And they account for the

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Speaker 1: follow up like usually burning, throbbing kind of sensation that

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Speaker 1: can be followed by that first like bolt of pain

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Speaker 1: that the A fibers deliver, and then that's from the

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Speaker 1: actual like like uh no susceptors. There's other stuff that

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Speaker 1: spens to like if you cut open your hand, those

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Speaker 1: damage cells you know, spill their guts and so like

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Speaker 1: potassium and glutamate and substance peace starch start like change

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Speaker 1: start firing off, like other neurons in the area um

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Speaker 1: you might have an inflammatory response, so things like histamine

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Speaker 1: show up and they start setting off other nerve fibers too,

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Speaker 1: So it's more than just the you know, the cut hand. No,

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Speaker 1: susceptor is telling the brain that something's happening. Like a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of different responses from the area are going

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Speaker 1: to arrive at the brain and produce this really complex,

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Speaker 1: rich message saying here's generally what's going on, and here's

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Speaker 1: how bad it is. You ever had a bad burn? Yes, man,

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Speaker 1: that's the worst. They are pretty bad. I don't even

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Speaker 1: remember what happened, but um, I definitely have burned myself

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Speaker 1: pretty bad. You may has this same spot on her

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Speaker 1: hand that she gets in like the confection of it.

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Speaker 1: Like basically every time it heals, she just re upset again.

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Speaker 1: She's always got this little little thing on like I

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Speaker 1: think it's her pinky knuckle on her right hand, and

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Speaker 1: she always like hits the same spot on the yep.

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Speaker 1: Oh man, every time you get that lady a glove

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Speaker 1: a hot myth. Yeah, I think by now it's just

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Speaker 1: so callous that she is dead. She fights sailors with

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Speaker 1: it these days. Yeah, those burns really linger. And that's

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Speaker 1: like every time I hear someone or see somebody that

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Speaker 1: has has you know, had been in a fire and

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Speaker 1: had really really bad burns over a lot of their body.

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Speaker 1: I just I can't imagine the lingering pain that they

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Speaker 1: go through. I know we've talked about this on some

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Speaker 1: episode before, but uh, just those burns that it seems

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Speaker 1: like they hurt forever. Yeah, I mean, you've got exposed

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Speaker 1: nerves fibers to just the air, which you know, as

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Speaker 1: we'll also see, when you undergo a particularly brilliant experience

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Speaker 1: of acute pain, it can be so thorough and it's

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Speaker 1: energizing of your nerves that they actually become sense of tized,

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Speaker 1: so like they become more sensitive than they would have

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Speaker 1: before that, which is actually also a problem with with

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Speaker 1: chronic pain too. But if you if you experience burns

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Speaker 1: like that deep over all of your body, not only

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Speaker 1: are you going through the normal pain, you're probably more

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Speaker 1: sensitive now to normal stuff like air blowing on your

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Speaker 1: exposed nerves than you wouldn't otherwise, and that just makes

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Speaker 1: it that much worse. Yeah. And then some things that

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Speaker 1: you might think really hurt don't hurt. Um, like cuts,

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Speaker 1: I've had cuts before that don't hurt. They might freak

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Speaker 1: you out, uh to look at it and to see,

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Speaker 1: you know, like your skin exposed and some people are

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Speaker 1: really freaked out by the blood. Um, I've had other

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Speaker 1: people I know I've never broken bones that have had

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Speaker 1: some pretty gnarly injuries like that. That said, it didn't

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Speaker 1: really hurt that much. Yeah, they're walking around like a skeleton.

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Speaker 1: You hang on the door with their arms just flopping

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Speaker 1: back and forth. It's really interesting how it all works.

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Speaker 1: But it really underscores, you know, how the brain can

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Speaker 1: get its opinion um of what's wrong with the body

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00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 1: based on the pain information wrong sometimes a lot of times,

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Speaker 1: like think about a hangnail. Hangnail is no threat whatsoever

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Speaker 1: to your survival, but those things hurt. Or a paper cut.

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Speaker 1: No one's going to die from a paper cut, but

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Speaker 1: it really really hurts too. Um. It can be overblown,

381
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: it can be underblown, but it really goes to show

382
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Speaker 1: like it's the brain taking all this different information together

383
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Speaker 1: and saying, here's how bad I think this is. Yeah,

384
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 1: it's pretty cool and painful. Uh. So let's say you

385
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Speaker 1: get hurt. Let's say you you slam your your hand

386
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Speaker 1: in the window like I was talking about, which I

387
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Speaker 1: think has happened. I don't know why I keep going

388
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Speaker 1: to that got your worst fear. I don't know, it's

389
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Speaker 1: I don't I don't think it's better not your worst fear.

390
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 1: That is not that bad. That'd be hard. It's a

391
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,120
Speaker 1: lot easier to shut your hand in a car door

392
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 1: than a window. But O, man, that hurts either way. Yeah, man,

393
00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: I had a knock wood. That hasn't happened to me

394
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Speaker 1: in a long time. Yeah. Every time my daughter shuts

395
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Speaker 1: the door, which I tried to let her do whatever

396
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: she can on her own, I'm always just like, don't

397
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: do it. Do you put ovenmits her hands first? No? No,

398
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: nanny stayed at our house. Uh. So you you get

399
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: hurt on your hand, Let's say, Um, the signal that

400
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 1: is gonna travel it travels through the into the gray

401
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,560
Speaker 1: matter of your spinal cord, and there are gonna be

402
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 1: a lot of different connections made with the spinal neurons there,

403
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: and it's going to cover a broad area of the body,

404
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: which is why sometimes if you get hurt, um, especially

405
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 1: if it's like an internal injury, you don't know exactly

406
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: where the pain's coming from. You might tell your doctor

407
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 1: you just might rub around your whole torso when in

408
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: fact what's actually hurt is a fairly small area. Yeah,

409
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: or it could be like a completely different part of

410
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Speaker 1: your your body or kind of near. It's called referred pain,

411
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: like if you're having a heart attack, usually feel pain

412
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: in your arm. Yeah. If you have brain freeze, that's

413
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,920
Speaker 1: your blood vessels on the roof of your mouth expanding

414
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: because they're cold. But you feel it unlike your forehead

415
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:55,159
Speaker 1: really terribly, which doesn't make any sense. So yeah, I

416
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,959
Speaker 1: think that's from those the nerve or the sea fiber

417
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,239
Speaker 1: information where it makes it tough to also figure out

418
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: where it's coming from. Have you ever been to a cardiologist? No,

419
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,439
Speaker 1: I'm going I'm going to one this week. Man. I

420
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: had I've known two people in the past like a

421
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: month that have dropped dead that are like my age.

422
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Speaker 1: What uh. One friend of mine from college had been

423
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Speaker 1: experiencing chess pains and he went to drove drove himself

424
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Speaker 1: to the hospital like collapse and died on the way

425
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: into the hospital. Just terrible. And I haven't been out

426
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: of touch since college, but it really hit me hard

427
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: to where I was like, you know what, I I

428
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: want to go, like just see what's going on in

429
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 1: there and get some preventative or not. Preventative, but just

430
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: some proactive tests done. Uh, you know where they see

431
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: how your arteries are doing. Because I've got cholesterol issues

432
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: because of my my family history and stuff, and I

433
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: wanted to be one of those things where they're like, oh, well,

434
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: it turns out that you know you were clogged this

435
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: whole time. So I don't I don't care what they say.

436
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 1: I'm going to demand those tests. Yeah. I think you

437
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: probably will have to pay for them out of pocket,

438
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: but that's not the end of the world. If, like

439
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: you have, you have concerns about it, no want of

440
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: genuine concerns, cardiologists might actually go ahead and prescribe it anyway. Well,

441
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: I don't have concerns in that I have chest pains

442
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: or anything, but but if you have a family history,

443
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: they may. Yeah, I just I want to know what's

444
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: going on. I'll I think that's great. And actually it's

445
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: funny like you me had suggested we do something like

446
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: that too, So maybe we'll see you at the cardiologists office. Well,

447
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: I think for women you can go get heart screenings

448
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: for women, um, very easily. Uh. And I don't know

449
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 1: if it's because I thought it was for both and

450
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: I talked to the lady on the phone. She said, O,

451
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: and then that's only for women. And I guess that's

452
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: because women are less likely to talk to doctors about

453
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: their heart because I think it's maybe generally thought of

454
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,360
Speaker 1: as something that men experience more. Yeah, I guess now

455
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,399
Speaker 1: that you say that, it does seem like more of

456
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: a man. So I think they're trying to be proactive

457
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 1: and saying like, hey, women, you need to think about

458
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: this stuff too, so we'll offer it's like a hundred

459
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 1: dollar heart screening or something like that. Gosh, is there

460
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: anything socialized medicine can't do? So, uh, we were talking

461
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: about those first um, those first set of spinal neurons.

462
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: Then you have secondary neurons that are going to send

463
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: their signals up through the white matter of the spinal cord.

464
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: And this is an expressway where all the traffic from

465
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: all of these lower segments just just speed up the

466
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: spinal cord. Yeah yeah, which is you know, normal for

467
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: any kind of sensory information. But um, the pain, the

468
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: pain information follows the same super highway and it goes

469
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: through your brain stem, your medula, and then it synapses

470
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 1: again onto a third set of neurons. Um in your thalamus,

471
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: which is your brain's relay center, and then from there

472
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,239
Speaker 1: things start to get kind of market. It goes out

473
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: to different parts of the brain, and we'll talk about

474
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 1: pain in the brain in a second, but one thing

475
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,400
Speaker 1: that it does it was helpful for me to imagine

476
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: pain a pain signal as like a pinball when when

477
00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,440
Speaker 1: you hit it with the flippers, say that's like you're

478
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: you cutting your hand. That pinball goes up and it's

479
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: going up to the top of the pinball machine. But

480
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: on the way, it goes through all these other things,

481
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,200
Speaker 1: like these gates that it flips around three and sixty

482
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 1: degrees a bunch of time. Imagine that it's, you know,

483
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: doing that in your in your brain stem, or in

484
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: the gray matter of your spinal cord. It's going through

485
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: all these different things, and as it does on its

486
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: way to that final destination of the brain's somato sensory cortex,

487
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 1: it can have effects on the way to Like if

488
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 1: it's bad enough, it may enter what's called a spinal

489
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: reflex loop, where that pain signal doesn't even make it

490
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: to the brain before part of it gets redirected back

491
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,360
Speaker 1: down to say, your hand to make your hand jerk

492
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 1: away from that hot stove before it even hit your brain.

493
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: Literally before your brain even knows that there's pain going on.

494
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: You're you have a signal going down to your arm

495
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: to say, move that move that hand, dummy. Yeah, because

496
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: if you think about burning your hand, the burn, I

497
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: mean it's very fast and very fast succession. The actual

498
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: burn pain burn happens after you've jerked your hand away. Uh.

499
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,480
Speaker 1: And like I said, it's pretty lickety split, but you

500
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: jerk that hand away. It's not like you keep it

501
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: there and you're like, oh my goodness, I feel pain

502
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: on my hand. Oh my lord, it's got fire on it.

503
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: I should probably move it eventually. Another thing that can

504
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 1: happen is pain signals can set off your fight or

505
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: flight pathways as it's going through the medulla. It's been

506
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: a long time since we talked about or fight. Yeah,

507
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: it's it's been so long. They added a third one freeze. Ye.

508
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: It's like an old friend coming back to visit, but

509
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: bringing a new obnoxious friend with it. Yeah. So um,

510
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 1: it could set that off through the medulla. And you

511
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: know what happens there is you're gonna your heart rate

512
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: is gonna go up. Your blood pressure is gonna shoot up.

513
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: You're gonna start sweating if you're me rapid breathing, and

514
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: it really can. Um, it really depends on the intensity

515
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: of the pain, but it can definitely set off that

516
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 1: fight or flight or I guess freeze. And again, all

517
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: this is before it even gets to the brain. And

518
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: then finally when I, like I said, when it does

519
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 1: get to the brain, we're not quite sure what happens there.

520
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: We know from observations that the brain is definitely involved.

521
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: And um, one of the ways that we know this

522
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 1: is because, um, you will move your hands. Sometimes it's

523
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: not an immediate reaction, but sometimes it's a little later.

524
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,479
Speaker 1: So clearly some of those signals get sent to the

525
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 1: motor cortex to say, Okay, get the hand out of there. Um.

526
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: But we also can tell from things like the fact

527
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: that if you consciously distract yourself from thinking about the

528
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: pain with something else, like do you remember how um,

529
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: Edward Norton in Fight Club when he had that lie

530
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: on his on the on his hand, he kept trying

531
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: to think of like a snow covered like forest or something.

532
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: He went to his his happy animal I think was

533
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 1: a penguin. That's right, that's right. He started to try

534
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: to concentrate on that and that it didn't work then,

535
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 1: but it could have worked depending on what other kind

536
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: of tissue damage was going on. And it really kind

537
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: of underscores the fact that if you think about something else,

538
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: your pain may decrease. Well, if the brain has nothing

539
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: to do with pain or controlling pain, then that wouldn't

540
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: happen at all. And so observations like that and some

541
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: other ones show us that, Okay, the brain is definitely

542
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,880
Speaker 1: involved in this in some way, shape or form, and

543
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 1: pain is not just the reception of um a pain

544
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: signal coming from the lower parts of the body up

545
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: to the brain. But there's also a reciprocal thing, like

546
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: you were saying, where the brain descends um or, there's

547
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: descending pathways that the brain uses to say, Okay, alright,

548
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 1: let's just all chill out down there, Okay, let me

549
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,520
Speaker 1: figure this out. Everybody, just shut up, shut up. I

550
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 1: can't think when you're all screaming at me. Yeah. And

551
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: as those signals are on the way down, there might

552
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,959
Speaker 1: be those uh, ascending nerve signals going up right, and

553
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: those descending signals could overpower and say hold on, you

554
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: stop right there, buddy, I'm trying to calm this person down.

555
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: You just you just stay put, right, And so there's um,

556
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: there's other things that that we figured out that can

557
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 1: actually influence your experience of pain. Like to say that

558
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: it's subjective is just no joke. There's probably no experience

559
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: more subjective than the experience of pain. And there's all

560
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: these different factors that are involved that will have an

561
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: impact on how much or how little pain you experience.

562
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: You know. I think improv comedy is the first that's right,

563
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: man to see good improv is just it's just so rare,

564
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 1: but it's so good when it is good. Yeah, I mean,

565
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: I've seen a handful in my life that just blew

566
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: me away, and I've seen a bunch more that. Uh,

567
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: it's tough to get through. It's like horror movies, Like

568
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 1: a truly great horror movie is really tough to beat.

569
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: But there's a lot of really bad horror movies out there. Yeah,

570
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: a lot of good ones these days, Thoughnas what you

571
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: got well, I mean in the past five or six years,

572
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: I think, uh, it follows and the and Hereditary, and

573
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 1: I think there's been a bunch of new horror masters

574
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: So now, this was not a horror movie, but I

575
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 1: want to shout out Um and Nola Holmes on Netflix.

576
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: Have you seen it? It's a coming of age movie

577
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: about Sherlock Holmes's younger sister. Interesting and it's super cute,

578
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:29,760
Speaker 1: but it's also really smart, like very smart, and it

579
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: takes the takes it for granted that the viewers smart

580
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 1: and paying attention. It's a really great, great movie, great movie.

581
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: You have to check that out. It's um Millie Bobby

582
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: Brown as Nola Homes just about She's about as charming

583
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: as they come. She's wonderful. So yeah, not a horror movie,

584
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 1: but definitely worth watching regardless. Is that based on any

585
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: uh literature or anything or did they just say, like, hey,

586
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 1: what if he had a little sister. I hadn't thought

587
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: about it, but I think it's the ladder of the two,

588
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: which makes it all the more amazing because they did

589
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 1: such a great job of capturing that whole um, that

590
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: whole world. Very cool. Yeah, where should we take a break? Yeah?

591
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Why not? Let's let's take a break and we'll come

592
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: back and talk about a few of the factors that

593
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: influence your experience of pain. So, um, we're saying before

594
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: we started talking about in Nola Holmes and horror movies,

595
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: that there's like a lot of different things that will

596
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: influence an individual's experience of pain. Um. And it has

597
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: to do with not just you biologically, but weirdly also

598
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 1: you sociologic le too. Yeah, and this first one um

599
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:08,720
Speaker 1: age is to me a little counterintuitive. Um. In some ways,

600
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: your you know, as you age, your brain circuitry is

601
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: gonna it's just gonna degenerate a little bit. That's just

602
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 1: that's sad fact of the matter. And if you are

603
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: one of our seniors, and if you're a senior that's listening. Hello,

604
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: got an email from a lovely eight year old lady

605
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,879
Speaker 1: the other day that just warmed my heart. Oh yes,

606
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: she was great. She was great. So, um, if you

607
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: are one of our senior listeners and you, um, you

608
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,479
Speaker 1: might have a lower pain threshold and more problems dealing

609
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: with pain. Um. This seemed a little counterintuitive because I

610
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: could also see a case where, uh, the neurons don't

611
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: fire in the correct way, such that you could be

612
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: feeling something painful and not really realize it. So the

613
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: way I took it was a little different that it

614
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: was almost like you know how when you form a

615
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,360
Speaker 1: habit or a memory or something, it's because the neural

616
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: connection has gone over again and again. So like that

617
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,719
Speaker 1: pathways is kind of blazed a little more clearly. My

618
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: interpretation was that the same can be true with pain,

619
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: to where once you fire a few times are over

620
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: and over again, it becomes easier to conduct that pain

621
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: signal more efficiently, and so that would account for sensitization.

622
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,680
Speaker 1: That's how I took it. You know, hey, I'm no

623
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: vs rama sham drawn. Uh. There's also gender, and because

624
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: we're talking about medical research, they are basically still saying

625
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: men and women, and they're not doing research along the

626
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 1: gender spectrum. So having said that, research shows that women

627
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 1: have a higher sensitivity to pain than men. Uh, could

628
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: be maybe physic psychosocial stuff at work, because you know,

629
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: men are supposed to not show their pain or not

630
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: report pain or just suck it up. Dude. Uh, there

631
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,320
Speaker 1: could be that at work. It also could be sex

632
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: linked genetic traits or hormonal changes that might change that

633
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: pain perception, right, or even the culture you're raised in,

634
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: like um women in Uganda, I read are expected to

635
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: be stoic in the face of pain. Um, whereas men

636
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: in Ukraine are expected to not h experience pain at

637
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: all or show any kind of pain whatsoever. Um. So

638
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: like the idea that culture can affect your interpretation or

639
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: how you experience pain is kind of weird if you

640
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,919
Speaker 1: think about it. It's also weird because I know many

641
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: many women who would say, are you kidding me? My

642
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: husband is the biggest whiny baby every time he gets sick. Uh,

643
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: And I generally suck it up as the wife, So

644
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: you gandon and so you gandon. There's also memory, like

645
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: if you've experienced pain before, your memory of going through

646
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: that pain can impact how you experience it a follow

647
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 1: up time too. Yeah, and for both ways. Like I

648
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: used to be really, really really scared of needles, and

649
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,839
Speaker 1: I think that was because I went a long time

650
00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,239
Speaker 1: without getting shots. Um. I think when you know, when

651
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: I was younger and in college, like I wasn't giving

652
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: blood like I should, and I wasn't getting flu shot

653
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: it's like I should. But now that I'm a real

654
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: sentient adult and responsible adult, I have needles in me

655
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,759
Speaker 1: all the time, and it's I'm not They don't really

656
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: hurt that bad anymore. So when I go back I

657
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: get that initial fear of the needle because I've always

658
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 1: had it, But then my brain tells me, hey, Chuck,

659
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:17,959
Speaker 1: it's not that bad, remember do you just just suck

660
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: it up and get the shot. My my sister in

661
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,399
Speaker 1: law is like a genuine shout no and run out

662
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 1: of the room, like, yeah, needle Phobe, that's a great

663
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: band name. Oh my god, that's the best band name

664
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: in years, Chuck. What kind of band is that? Uh?

665
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: Needle Phobe is clearly some sort of metal, maybe new

666
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: metal if it were going to be ruined. But there's

667
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: definitely something, and there may be along the lines of

668
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 1: like Queens Rich or something. Yeah, I could see that,

669
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: or maybe even like horror metal. Oh yeah, like that

670
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:02,080
Speaker 1: Norwegian stuff. Sure, Okay, so it's about to get weirder, Chuck.

671
00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 1: So you're talking about needles. If you look at a

672
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: needle injected into your arm, it hurts more than if

673
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: you're not looking. Even if you're thinking about the needle

674
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: injecting into your arm being injected in your arm, just

675
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,800
Speaker 1: not looking at it makes it hurt less, studies have shown,

676
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 1: which is weird, but in a sense it also makes

677
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,680
Speaker 1: sense because you're being provided with additional information about that

678
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:29,399
Speaker 1: through your eyes, so your brain has more information than

679
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: it otherwise would have, which can actually make it hurt more. Yeah,

680
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 1: and I know I've mentioned this, I still gotta look. Um.

681
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: I used to request a mirror to look at dental

682
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: work as it was going on. I don't do that anymore.

683
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 1: I try and just check out, but I always have

684
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: to look at the needle. There's no way. Yeah. Same here,

685
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: I'm like, do it slower. You're not a needle fobe,

686
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: You're a needle uh whatever. The opposite is file a

687
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 1: needle file. Um. So. And then there's emotions too, and

688
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: not just you know, like you were saying earlier, there's something.

689
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,719
Speaker 1: There's a different thing psychic pain. Where you are your

690
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: emotions are so overwrought that you actually feel physically uncomfortable

691
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 1: or hurt from it. That's different. Your emotions can actually

692
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: affect physical pain as well. Yeah, and back when we

693
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 1: were trying to understand and we're still trying to understand this,

694
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:25,400
Speaker 1: but um, why emotions and stuff might influence pain. In

695
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,719
Speaker 1: the sixties, of course, when all this kind of cool

696
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,360
Speaker 1: research was going on, there were a couple of dudes

697
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: named Ronald mel Zack and Patrick Wall, who threw up

698
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: a proposal about a gating mechanism existing among the connections

699
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 1: in the body sensory pathways that can help determine how

700
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: you're gonna feel pain and how that works with the brain. Yeah,

701
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 1: because so there's the ascending painful pathways and then the

702
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: descending let's all just mellow out pathways. And I don't

703
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: know if we knew that before um Melzack and Wall,

704
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: or if we know it as a result to them,

705
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: But the current general understanding of pain is this gate

706
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: control theory, where this there's stimulation of these pathways going

707
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: up to the brain and they have to be of

708
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: like a certain amount to overcome an inhibitory neuron. And

709
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: so if you I just like press you know, my arm,

710
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 1: I'm sending somato sensory information through those same pain pathways,

711
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,240
Speaker 1: but that the inhibitory neuron that keeps those the pain

712
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: projector neurons from firing, are not overcome. But if I,

713
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: if I, you know, took a butcher knife and cut

714
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: that same part of my arm, they would be overcome.

715
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: The inhibitory neuron would basically be turned off by the

716
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: signal the intensity of the signal, and that projector neuron

717
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: would fire, and now our brains would have that pain signal, saying,

718
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: in that case, the gate is fully open for business.

719
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: And when otherwise, when there's no pain, no no sensory information,

720
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: the gates closed, or if it's just normal somatosensory information,

721
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,200
Speaker 1: the gates still closed. It's just when it's that that

722
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,879
Speaker 1: intensity of the pain information that the gate flies open. Yeah,

723
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: and this is interesting because it doesn't explain everything, but

724
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: it does explain like when you um, like if you

725
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: smash your thumb with a hammer, and your reaction is

726
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 1: to go and shake your hand really hard or too

727
00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: or to suck on it. Maybe if you smash your

728
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: finger with a hammer. It seems like a weird thing

729
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 1: to do. I know it is, but it works. It does.

730
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: That stimulates your normal somatosensory input to those projector neurons,

731
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 1: and that's going to help override the projection neurons that

732
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 1: uh and you know, basically kind of close that gate down. Okay,

733
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: So now that you understand the gate theory of pain,

734
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: and this is the general understanding among Western science medicine

735
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: of pain. This is pretty much the common knowledge. Now

736
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: you can understand how it can go wrong, and so

737
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: they think that this also explain how the how you

738
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: can experience psychogenic pain where people have fibro mayalgia or

739
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: chronic pelvic pain, or tenitis or t mj or um

740
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 1: chronic back pain when there's no reason whatsoever for them

741
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: to experience this. The Um the really great author in

742
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: Surgeon a Tool go on Day, I believe he rights

743
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: for The New Yorker. He's also he writes some books

744
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,200
Speaker 1: as well. He's one of one of the best writers

745
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: out there right now, and he's also a very accomplished surgeon.

746
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: And he he likens that situation to a faulty car sensor,

747
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: where if you have a sensor on your dashboard coming

748
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 1: on saying like, hey you got an engine problem, and

749
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: you go to the mechanic and the mechanics like you

750
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,760
Speaker 1: don't have an engine problem. Eventually they're going to figure

751
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: out that the problems with the sensor itself, and they

752
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: think that this is because of this gate being opened.

753
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 1: The sensor um is open, even though there's nothing tripping it. Um,

754
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: that that is the problem, that that is what it

755
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: counts for psychogenic pain. Very interesting and it's gonna make sense, Yeah, definitely.

756
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,320
Speaker 1: So when it comes to managing pain. Uh, there are

757
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: a bunch of different routes you can go, UM, depending

758
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: on what your doctor might recommend, depending on what you

759
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: as a human, UM, what what road you want to

760
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: go down? Uh, and these very uh and we'll you know,

761
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: we'll get into these, but these very from like over

762
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: the counter medications to prescription medications to surgery, to go

763
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: into a massage therapist or a uh an acupuncture specialist, acupuncturist.

764
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: But as far as the medications go, you've got a

765
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: couple of different kinds. UM. You've got your non opioid

766
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 1: analgesic like this is a tail in all or in

767
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: a lever or an advil or something like that, and

768
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 1: it's going to act at the side of the pain. UM.

769
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 1: When you have that damaged tissue, it releases enzymes that

770
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: stimulate the pain receptors locally. And what these do is

771
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,400
Speaker 1: they interfere with those enzymes are going to reduce inflammation

772
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: and hopefully reduce pain. Yeah, which is really interesting because

773
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: that is your mind saying this pain is not nothing

774
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: that my brain needs to worry about. I'm going to

775
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: actually go to the site and cancel out those those

776
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,479
Speaker 1: pain signals where they're beginning, because I'm judging that they're

777
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: not that important. Pretty cool, Yeah, it is cool, but

778
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: these can have effects on the liver and kidneys if

779
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: you use them a lot. So you know, you don't

780
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: want to, uh, you don't want to pop an advil

781
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:29,319
Speaker 1: every day if you have like back pain, that kind

782
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: of thing. Um. And then there's opioids which, um they

783
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: actually go to the gate um and they can close

784
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: the gate on the one hand, and then they can

785
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: also go to your brain and um excite in the

786
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,400
Speaker 1: descending pathways which will bind with like opioid receptors. And

787
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: of course those are hugely addictive and have a huge

788
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 1: um possibility of of overdose as well, but they do

789
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,680
Speaker 1: help treat pain a lot. Yeah, we should do one

790
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: of opioids and the opioid epidemic. It's I agree. It's

791
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: been one of the darker spots of the new era. Yes,

792
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 1: the new era, I don't even know the last ten

793
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:17,839
Speaker 1: or fifteen years. That's what I call that. A new era.

794
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 1: The modern era is what I meant. Uh, what else

795
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: do we have there? Um, you can actually use medicines

796
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: that aren't meant for treating pain to treat pain, like

797
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: anti epileptic drugs, brand stuff, antidepressants, anesthetics. They all do

798
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: things like they block can like nerve conduction in some

799
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: specific area, and so they weren't Yeah, they weren't meant

800
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,160
Speaker 1: to be treated for or used for pain, but they

801
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: actually can come in handy for things like chronic pain

802
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: or neuropathic pain. Yeah. You can also have surgery is

803
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: a kind of a last resort um if you have

804
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,759
Speaker 1: severe I've not had a couple of friends, actually you

805
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 1: have had back surgery where let's say you have a

806
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 1: herniated disk and that thing is compressing on a nerve.

807
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,280
Speaker 1: As a last resort, they can go in there and

808
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: maybe remove a little bit of that disk that's hitting

809
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: that nerve and relieve that pressure. Yeah, and from what

810
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: I've seen, yes, that is meant to be a last resort.

811
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: There's also like cord ectomies where they go in and

812
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: say we're just gonna snip that gate so that it

813
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: just doesn't function at all anymore and make you a

814
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,760
Speaker 1: super soldier. And then there's also alternative therapies and mental

815
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: control techniques and these work of varying degrees um. One

816
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: of my favorite alternative therapies. Is the TENS unit transcutaneous

817
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:35,640
Speaker 1: electrical nerve stimulation and it sends electrical impulses from the

818
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: site of pain to base. It's basically like a defibrillator

819
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: for your pain gate. It's saying your pain gate is

820
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 1: is it's open, and it shouldn't be open. So we're

821
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna send some nerve stimulation and the hopes

822
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: that we can restart that inhibitory neuron and get it

823
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: closing that pain gate, or and or we can make

824
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,399
Speaker 1: it all the way up to the brain and get

825
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: the brains descending pathways kick started as well. Is that

826
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,280
Speaker 1: like when uh, like I had a back thing about

827
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 1: five years ago where they gave me this electro stimulator

828
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,480
Speaker 1: thing that I put these little pads on the and

829
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: there's like a little handheld thing about the size of

830
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: a game boy that was connected to uh, not mine,

831
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 1: but I'm sure they're all different kinds. But you could

832
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: basically level the amount of sort of low level shock

833
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: and uh when you turn that thing all the way up, man,

834
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,359
Speaker 1: it was it was pretty intense. Yeah, that's a TENS unit,

835
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, that's based on some

836
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: really ancient thinking Apparently the pre Dynastic Egyptians from like

837
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: five thousand years ago used electric catfish from the Nile

838
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: for the same effect and impact. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. Uh.

839
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: And then you know we mentioned going to the chiropractor,

840
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: massage therapist. Um. Obviously they're hot compresses and cold compresses.

841
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: There's acupuncture, Um, there is you know, relaxation and hypnosis.

842
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 1: And we've already talked about distraction. If you want to

843
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,439
Speaker 1: know what you think about hypnosis, we did a pretty

844
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 1: good episode on it a while back. Um. So, yeah,

845
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 1: they are all sorts of mental ways because they've shown

846
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: that that oh I'm blanking out what do you call

847
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:15,359
Speaker 1: the drugs that aren't real drugs? What are the sugar bills? Placebos? Yeah,

848
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: that that placebos have been shown to work sometimes with

849
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: with limiting pain. Yeah yeah, And I mean you can

850
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: trick the brain for sure into not feeling pain. Like

851
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: Phantom limb treatment usually or sometimes involves a mirror where

852
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 1: you put a mirror over the amputated limb that's experienced pain,

853
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: and you move the other limb while you're looking in

854
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: the mirror, so it looks like you're amputated limb is

855
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: back and you're tricking your brain into being like, Okay,

856
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: it's there, it's fine, I don't have to experience pain anymore.

857
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 1: And it actually works. Yeah, but there's there's a you know,

858
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: there's a threshold there, like you can mind over matter

859
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: it to a certain degree. But um, as you say

860
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: in the article, like your mind and your brain are

861
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:57,400
Speaker 1: two different things, so like you can't shut down that

862
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: gateway just by thinking it away. No, And there's a

863
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: real like push to to believe that over the last

864
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: few decades. But it's just it's becoming clear you can

865
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,640
Speaker 1: impact it to some degree, but just not to to

866
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: a full degree. Yeah, And I think the mind over

867
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: matter is a person like the pain doesn't go away.

868
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: You're just able to mentally overcome it such that you're

869
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: not gonna either show it or let it get to

870
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 1: you or let it affect you. Right, you have actually

871
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: a lower stress response, and at the same time it

872
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: also cuts down on suffering, which is different from the

873
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 1: experience of pain. It's like associated with pain, and that's

874
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 1: like like that whole y Me thing and that seems

875
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 1: to be fixated on anticipating more pain in the immediate future.

876
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 1: And people who are mindful and meditate can actually cut

877
00:49:43,760 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 1: down and alleviate that suffering. So they experience pain, but

878
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: it goes away a lot faster in their response to

879
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 1: it is it nearly is pronounced, so it does have

880
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,319
Speaker 1: an effect. You know, Chuck, this is a good one

881
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,319
Speaker 1: man pain pain in the house. And if you want

882
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: to know more about pain, well, I'm not even going

883
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: to suggest what you can do. How about you just

884
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,920
Speaker 1: go read up on it a little more. Uh. And

885
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: since I said that it's time for a listener meal,

886
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna call this the Las Vegas Beavers. I

887
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,400
Speaker 1: just got done listening to the Beaver podcast, which, by

888
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: the way, we got a lot of response on that one.

889
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: People love their beavers, especially baby beavers. Oh yeah, they're

890
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 1: the best. I just wanted to give you a fun

891
00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: little tidbit of information. Chuck said that you can't find

892
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 1: or that you can find beavers almost everywhere except the desert,

893
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 1: which is somewhat true. Uh, they can't live out in

894
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,279
Speaker 1: the open amongst the cacti. But the sizeable population of

895
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: beavers in Las Vegas is testament to their ability to

896
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: survive the heat. They're about eighty to one beavers living

897
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: in the Clark County, Wetlands, just just about twenty to

898
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,520
Speaker 1: thirty minutes from the strip. It was a shock when

899
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: I first heard of this, but have since taken several

900
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,959
Speaker 1: trips to see them. Thanks for all the work, enjoy

901
00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:00,160
Speaker 1: the show. That's from Josh. Very short and sweet us

902
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:05,000
Speaker 1: from Josh uh Eretics. That's a great great first name,

903
00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: great last name, Josh, and I love how that email

904
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: just kind of petered out at the end there, so

905
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna we're His new name is Josh Peter Eretics. Okay, great.

906
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 1: Thanks for the email, JP, And if you want to

907
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 1: be like JP and send us an email, you can

908
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: do so. Wrap it up, spank it on the bottom,

909
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: and send it off to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio

910
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of

911
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: iHeart Radios How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my

912
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,359
Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts are

913
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.