WEBVTT - Boris Jordan on the Politics & Future of the Cannabis Industry 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:07.720 Hi, I'm Ethan Nadelman, and this is Psychoactive, a production 0:00:07.760 --> 0:00:11.600 of I Heart Radio and Protozoa Pictures. Psychoactive is the 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:15.040 show where we talk about all things drugs. But any 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:18.760 views expressed here do not represent those of I Heart Media, 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:23.480 Protozoa Pictures, or their executives and employees. Indeed, Heed, as 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.400 an inveterate contrarian, I can tell you they may not 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:30.720 even represent my own and nothing contained in this show 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:33.680 should be used his medical advice or encouragement to use 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:45.400 any type of drugs. Hello, Psychoactive listeners. So today our 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:49.680 guest is Boris Jordan's. He is the founder and a 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:53.120 major shareholder in the company cure Lee, which I think 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.520 is either the biggest or one of the biggest cannabis 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.400 companies in the world. Right It's a major multi state operator. 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:02.520 He also has a hedge fund called Measure eight uh 0:01:02.560 --> 0:01:04.160 and just took a sense how big it is. He's 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.200 got almost six thousand people working for him now, he's 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:10.040 got a hundred and thirty seven dispensaries. Last I looked 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.440 in in twenty one states. He's got over two dozen 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:17.039 cultivation sites. I mean, this is a major, major operation 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:19.560 it's valuation is in the billions of dollars on the 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:23.679 Stock Exchange. Uh. He's a major player in cannabis industry 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.119 circles and also deeply involved in the politics of all 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:28.880 of this. And he's got a fascinating life even before 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.720 he got into cannabis. So Boris, thank you ever so 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.280 much for joining me on Psychoactive. I'm super excited to 0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:39.080 be here. Okay, well listen more so let's just jump in. 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.520 He do need to talk a bit about what's going 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:46.039 on in Congress right now. So this Safe Banking Act, right, 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:48.440 you know, having married people in the industry and businesses 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:50.920 to get access to safe banks, and and the whole 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:54.480 discussion about can or should this go through, you know, 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.600 without there being all sorts of racial equity racial justice 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:00.840 provisions that we both include a sponge been that would 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.600 also include, you know, ensuring a better level of access 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.120 or some preferential access for a minority business owners. You know, 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.400 can this happen? I mean Schumer, you know, on on 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:14.440 the show and since then it said I don't want, 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:16.839 you know, any state banking going through unless it's got 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.560 some racial equity provisions. In Corey Booker from New Jersey 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:22.800 has been even stronger on that. So what is the 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:25.239 state of play from where you see? Well, even it's 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:29.000 it's it's not a simple, uh, you know, piece of legislation. 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:32.960 I'm sure you more than anybody knows that. Um you know, 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.440 it's been I don't know, you know, fifty some odd 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:39.760 years of repression on the sector and we've come to 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:44.200 a situation now where, you know, I actually believe we're 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.320 closer than we've ever have been for potentially getting a 0:02:48.440 --> 0:02:52.560 piece of federal legislation that at a minimum recognizes the 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:57.680 existence of cannabis as a substance that can be consumed 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:01.640 in various forms by the popular lation at large. So 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:04.160 the short of it is, I think we have a 0:03:04.200 --> 0:03:07.640 piece of legislation as being worked on now that has 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.799 obviously the safe banking component, and the safe banking component 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:15.240 means that cannabis companies would have access to basic banking 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:18.800 for their businesses. And I think it will also have 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.920 a safe harbor provision that would allow investors to invest 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.600 in the sector. And I think it will also have 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.680 some level of what we call plus love you know, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.320 whope act issues like expungement and potentially and I think 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:36.600 this is the issue that Booking wants the most, and 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:40.640 that is some level of money to help these states 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:44.720 with closing these expungements, because the one thing is you 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.080 can come out and say, okay, we have you know, 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.360 we've expunged these these these felonies or these misdemeanors. But 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:52.720 another thing is to actually get it off the actual 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.400 physical record, and that takes money and time. Obviously, there's 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.320 a lot of different advocacy groups that want whatever is 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.440 that they want this piece of legislation. We could probably 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.600 spend two hours talking about all the different things people 0:04:05.640 --> 0:04:08.720 wanting this piece of legislation. The way I look at this, 0:04:08.920 --> 0:04:11.720 and I think that's where we're heading, is that this 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:16.480 is the first step in what will be a multi year, 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:23.000 potentially multi generational move towards legalization of not only cannabis, 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:26.600 but other drugs as well. And I think that we 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.960 have to see it that way, and we have to 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.839 put our I wouldn't say differences, because to be honest, 0:04:32.920 --> 0:04:34.320 I'm on the same page as a lot of the 0:04:34.320 --> 0:04:36.080 other people are in terms of all the things we'd 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.440 like to get in this legislation, particularly on some of 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.320 the racial social equity issues. But I think that what 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:44.240 we need to do is get something that we think 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:48.360 can get past, so that we could you know, break 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.520 the glass ceiling, say um, and and actually get a 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.000 piece of legislation on the books that then you know, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.680 we'll use every year to expand on, expand on, liberalized 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.880 and liberalized and for the more spark. That's what happened 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.480 in the States as well. A lot of the states 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:06.280 are initially passed very restrictive legislation, and then eventually they 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:09.640 liberalized that legislation. As the sort of the demons of 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:12.200 cannabis came down and people realized it wasn't as bad 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.520 as everybody thought it was, they started to liberalize. And 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.599 I think that's where we are now. And so I 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.240 see the activists saying, you know, what we should have 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:21.240 in there is providing small business administration loans to new 0:05:21.320 --> 0:05:24.480 legal cannabis businesses trying to get started, or making sure 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.640 that banks provide support for new minority owned enterprises. And 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:30.839 I think the problem has typically been, you know, the 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.640 Republicans on this thing, right, I mean, the Democrats, you know, 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.080 all for safe banking. They love it. They even passed 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.839 it as stand alans before. The Republicans are generally for 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:41.040 stand alone. The Democrats are saying, put some of his 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:43.720 other stuff in, and the Republicans keep you know, now 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:46.080 we don't like that racial equity stuff, get rid of it. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.600 But are the Republicans going to move along on this 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:51.560 stuff and drop their opposition to uh, you know, we 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.039 don't like this racial equity stuff. Will do expungement, but 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:58.040 forget all that other preferential preferential stuff. Listen. I think 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:00.240 where we are right now is that we have, if 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.640 it was purely safe, we have about eighty votes in 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.440 the Senate. As you know, we need sixty votes to 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.120 get this through. So the real issue is once you 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:15.920 start adding veterans affairs, small business loans, racial equity expungements, 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:20.000 and all these things, you start to lose votes, and frankly, 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.400 not only Republican votes, but there are several Democrats that 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.400 you lose votes on as well, the ones that typically 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.440 cause a problem for Democrats and a lot of the 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:33.400 legislation that they've been trying to pass. So we so 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.640 what we've been trying to do is get Schumer and 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:42.160 Booker to give us a final draft, per se draft. 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.080 We understand it will get negotiated that we could go 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.839 and cross to the other side and start talking to 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:50.680 the Republicans about what they're prepared to accept and not 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.920 prepared to accept. The problem is every time you add anything, 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:56.919 you'll lose a couple of them, right, That's where the 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.480 problem is. What happens if the Republicans take not just 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:03.640 the House, which everybody expects, but they also take the Senate. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:07.800 Are things then dead because McConnell just doesn't want it. 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:09.800 Or when you say there's eighty votes for a straight 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.560 safe banking, um that supplies that there's thirty Republicans out 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:15.680 of the forty nine or fifty fifty who would be 0:07:15.680 --> 0:07:18.160 in favor of it. So is it conceivable that a 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.560 straight out safe banking goes through next year if reblems 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:24.640 have both houses or the Democrats gonna mobilize against it 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.800 so much it won't happen on that end, McConnell. McConnell's 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.040 the problem in this situation. So there are votes on 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:35.600 the Republican side, but only under democratically controlled House because 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:40.480 McConnell doesn't want to have on his record legalization of 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.680 any kind in cannabis. But safe banking is not legalization. 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.280 And if you're saying he's got you know, thirty out 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:50.240 of fifty Republicans already saying they want it. I mean, 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:52.240 I mean, you know what's the problem there. I mean, 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.320 he did move around on him, maybe because it ran 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.360 Paul's influence and being in Kentucky some years ago, but 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:00.840 it's safe. Banking is not real. I mean, so he 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:04.040 regrets ever passing the hemp built he thought it was 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:08.880 he thought it was, you know, um, hemp for rope. 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.120 He didn't think it was hemp for weed. And what's 0:08:12.120 --> 0:08:14.800 happened is, you know, he he did not think that 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.320 what's happening now countrywide with delta eight and delta nine 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.239 to th HC components that are being derived from hemp, 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.320 and these products are spreading naturally, he's adamantly against that. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.640 And so he is very negative on anything to do 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:34.080 with either CBD, hemp or cannabis. At this stage, I 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:35.719 can't get into the guy's head, but I can tell 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:38.000 you what he said. We are not going to put 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.120 either into committee or on the floor vote with anything 0:08:41.160 --> 0:08:43.640 to do with cannabis at the Senate if he controls 0:08:43.640 --> 0:08:45.800 the Senate. Okay, boys, let me let me just embarrass 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.079 He's just a little bit here, right, So I should 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.120 tell our listeners full disclosure that you know, after I 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.640 stepped down from running drug policy a lines five years ago, 0:08:52.920 --> 0:08:54.959 I thought about getting involved in the industry in some way, 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.240 and it just felt unseemly to make a switch from 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.560 advocacy into that. But last year I said what the hell, 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.680 and I decided to make a significant investment for me 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.440 in the hedge fund that Boris had set up called 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.640 Measure eight. And like an idiot, I did it at 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.679 the peak of the market last spring, a year and 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:14.160 a half ago. I have anybody should have known better 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.600 than that, And so my investment is now down in 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:19.959 your hedge fund boards, although I understand would probably probably 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:21.440 be down even more if I'd invested in some of 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:23.760 the other funds. But that being said, so i'd go 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.080 on a couple of your quarterly calls and I remember, 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.959 like a year or ago, you were really optimistic. I'm 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.680 talking to people people appreciate, so I'm taking what you 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.520 say and you're optimism with a grain of salt. But 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.120 why do you think you got it pretty wrong last year? Well, 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.360 because I was speaking to you know, the powers that 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:44.360 I had calls with Schumeran and others, and um you know, 0:09:45.040 --> 0:09:47.320 they were very optimistic they were gonna get this done, 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.079 and they misled. To be honest, a lot of us 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:53.840 and you know, we love to blame the Republicans, he said, 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:57.040 on anything to do with cannabis or you know, liberalization 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.880 of drug policy. But the fact is the Democrats of 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.959 the Democratic President and two houses the controlled by Democrats, 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.640 and they have done zero on this issue. And so 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:13.880 you know today, obviously I'm positive because I can see 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.800 the activity, but you know, I'm a person who tries 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:20.600 to believe what I'm told, and I was told by 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.200 the higher ups in the party that they were going 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.640 to get this done and they didn't. Right. You know, 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.400 it's my little suggestion giving the Democrats a little more 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:29.160 loved before you hit him on that stuff, because I 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.360 saw I'm watching your interviews in your slamming Schumer and Booker. 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:34.720 They're screwing it up. They should have had this done before. 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:37.440 And then you're saying in the States, the Democrat led 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.200 governments in the States, they won't crack down on the 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:44.000 illicit markets because because Biden bailed them all out with 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.080 the big federal funding, and once they don't run out 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.040 of money, they have to crack down there and they'll see. 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:50.280 But meanwhile, the fact of the matter is, of course, 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.920 it's Democrats, with a few major exceptions, who have really 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:56.280 driven this thing nationally, right, It's it's democratic states, which 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.520 basically on the places mostly where you're doing really good 0:10:58.520 --> 0:11:01.800 business is democratically leadership. In Congress, they led this thing, 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:05.200 you know. It's it's Democratic voters who disproportionately voted in 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:07.720 favor this thing. So I can agree with you to 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:09.960 some extent about Schumer and Booker and how slowly been 0:11:10.000 --> 0:11:12.360 on getting their ship together. But on the other hand, 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.480 you know, but for the Democrats, if the Republicans were 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.719 running things, uh, you know, purely, if your business, the 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.480 whole industry wouldn't be much of anywhere. And meanwhile, the 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.520 Democrats they got what five or tennessee margin in the House, 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:27.960 they got zero seat margin in the Senate. It's not 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.360 like g f DR and a new deal so getting 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.800 anything through. So anyway, my suggestion, give a little more 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:36.040 love before you kind of smack them around. It's and 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:38.960 I I spend more money and more love on the 0:11:39.040 --> 0:11:42.280 Democrats than on any party in Washington, and so we 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.199 I can tell you this, I don't give very little 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.439 credit to the federal government and Congress or the Presidency, 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:52.160 both Republics and Democrats on these policies. I give them zero. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:55.840 I do however, do you have a high grade to 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.920 our various governors and local governments that have been really 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:05.160 brave and pushing these policies. But at the federal government, 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.760 which you and I are talking about now, I give 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:09.880 him an f So just a few other issues will 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:12.960 wrap up this. Can you know current conversation to a 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.959 d about allowing businesses Marijunia businesses take a tax to 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:18.480 duck share that can happen anytime soon is that's still 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.800 years away. So they're trying to actually put that into 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.319 this current law that they're trying to get past in 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:28.440 the Lame Duck. My concern with that, Ethan, this is 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.120 that that's the trojan horse I worked on the Ways 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.720 and Meets committe when we were doing tax reform. Kind 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.560 of showing my age. But anyway, um, I can tell 0:12:37.600 --> 0:12:41.400 you that to change tax policy in the United States 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:44.360 is very complicated. You have to score the tax, you 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.920 have to find an alternative for that tax, for the 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:51.280 revenue from that. I don't believe personally that we can 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.080 get that done between now and the Lame Duck. And 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.120 so my concern is that if they put that into 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.719 the law, it's dead on arrival. Even though the publicans 0:13:00.800 --> 0:13:05.680 tend to be pro tax reduction, although I'd like to 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.360 see what their position would be on cannabis tax reduction, 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:11.880 but they tend to be pro tax reduction. So and 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.040 we just say the same thing also about there's this 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:17.800 climb Acts c l i MB that would basically, you know, 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.320 provide a safe harbor so that you know, companies like 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:22.680 yours could be listed on US stock exchanges or at 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.439 least be able to access Wall Street funding. Same issue 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.200 where it's going to be some years down the road 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.000 and can't. Don't get things distracted now because I hear 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:32.280 the activists are very worried about it. They see, you know, 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.679 opening up the funding for you know, you guys to 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.360 Wall Street just you know, enhance this consolidation of this 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.800 whole industry. You know, your valuations will you know go 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.480 through the ceiling. But the whole consolidation process which activists 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:46.200 and some others are really trying to slow down to 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.480 keep some elements of this industry a small business um 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.800 that will go by the wayside. Well, I actually have 0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:54.040 a completely the opposite view. If if they don't get 0:13:54.160 --> 0:13:56.720 rid of two A D and if they don't allow 0:13:56.880 --> 0:14:01.199 eventral uplifting, I'm not the one that's to suffer, right, 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:03.880 It's going to be the small entrepreneurs that are gonna 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.720 suffer because there's no cheap funding for them. What's happening 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.120 with those companies now is that they're having to pay 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:13.040 you know, usually rates to start the company, kind of 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.440 the way I had to write when I started this 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.120 business to ten years ago. You know, we were paying 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.640 you know, for our money to try to start the business. Now, 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.240 the fact is we had an open playing field, so 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.840 it was much less competitive. Now the market is much 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.960 more competitive. Pricing is being squeezed, so the profitability levels 0:14:31.960 --> 0:14:35.640 are way down where you're paying basically a seventy tax 0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:39.600 rate on that, and so the small companies cannot survive. 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:44.560 I want to reiterate this, without too without safe banking, 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:49.720 and without uplifting, the small business owner is finished in Cannabis. 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.600 So if we don't get this in the lame duck session, 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.360 over the next two years, the five major companies in 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.440 the U S will consolidate the whole industry underneath them 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:01.800 because nobody else is gonna be able to get funding. 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.960 Aren't the states kind of limiting how many you know, dispensaries. 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.880 You guys can own it anywhere, but they're not gonna 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:07.960 be able to But they're not gonna be able to 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.400 keep doing anything because I'm telling you right now, we 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.440 have something called three tiers of cannabis companies in the US. 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:16.280 The top tiers the top five companies. Then there's about 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:18.560 ten companies and what we call tier two, and then 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.120 everybody else is in tier three, and then there's the 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:26.520 private companies that are Tier four. Everything below Tier two 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:29.840 is going to start going bankrupt because they can't refinance 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.120 and there's no money available. Why would investors put money 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:34.800 in the sector where there's no liquidity and they can't 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.520 realize their upside. So what's gonna happen is the big 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.280 companies will always be able to attract investment, although it 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.240 will be more expensive. The medium and small companies are 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.960 gonnatract no investment. So what is gonna happen. They're gonna 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.680 start going bankrupt and shutting their doors. So what's gonna happen? 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.560 We're gonna go to the states to the regulations and say, guys, 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.280 here's your alternative. Either these companies shut down and we 0:15:55.320 --> 0:15:57.600 lose all those jobs, or you allow us to come 0:15:57.600 --> 0:15:59.840 in and consolidate them and at least save the jobs 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.720 and business. So, you know, the states are gonna have 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.040 to make a decision. Do they want to, you know, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.720 have this sector continue to expand or are they gonna 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:10.960 want to shut it down. And if they decided to 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:12.840 shut it down, they shut it down. But I don't 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.000 think that's what's gonna happen. They're gonna want the tax revenues, 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.320 so they're gonna want these businesses to keep going, and 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.040 so they're gonna allow consolidation to take place in these states. 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:25.360 They're gonna have to. It's inevitable. We'll be talking more 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:41.800 after we hear this ad. Let me ask you about 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.680 a particular state, Oklahoma, right, I mean, it looks like 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.560 the total Wild West. Basically, it looks like they're giving 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.560 out licenses like candy there, and the result is that 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:54.280 you have, i know, massive numbers of dispensaries and outlets, 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.080 you know, medical marijuana, but you know, basically anybody can 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.360 get it. But when somebody was telling me recently, is 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:01.760 that went ups night of that is that in basically 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.840 every little city in town in Oklahoma, you have some 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.640 local business people who set up their own little operation. 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.280 And if you go to a black town, it's going 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.480 to be a black owned dispensary in a white town. 0:17:11.560 --> 0:17:13.960 This and and the question what do you think about 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.760 that model or is it inevitable that will be consolidation 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.280 in Oklahoma as well? They won't be able to survive. 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:23.520 They'll all have to consolidate because there's too many of them. 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.560 We saw this in Oregon, we saw this in California. 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:28.879 There's too many of them. There used to be two thousand, 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.520 eight hundred dispensaries in California. There's less than eight hundred 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:36.120 now because what happens is they all go out of business. Capitalisms, 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:38.040 capitalism ethm right. You know, you have to make a 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:40.520 great product, you have to invest in that product, you 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.840 have to build your distribution. To do these things, you 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.400 need a lot of money. This is not a capital 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.960 light industry. This is a capital heavy industry. In other words, 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.160 you have to invest a lot to get a result, 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.280 and people want to return on that investment. I mean, 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.280 we've seen this for two hundred years in the United States, right, 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.600 lots of small brewers, lots of small um alcohol companies, 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:06.040 cigarette companies, other things. They eventually all merged into these 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:09.600 large conglomerates because of the nature of the way the 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.960 system is, of course. I mean, I'll be frank with 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.080 you and our listeners here. I mean, you know, on 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:16.199 the one hand, you know, I'm the kind of smallest, 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.360 beautiful kind of guy, you know, ideologically, you know, I've 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:21.440 been on records saying I'm not in this whole thing, 0:18:21.480 --> 0:18:24.760 the fight for the Marlborization or bud Wiserization of marijuana. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:27.040 I do think there's a moral obligation to try to 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:29.800 get racial equity provisions and to make them work. But 0:18:29.840 --> 0:18:31.240 the other part of me knows we live in, you know, 0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:35.040 perhaps the most dynamic capitalist society in history. I look 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:36.840 at when I moved to New York City thirty years ago, 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:39.040 and they're all sorts of different little you know, coffee 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:42.000 shops out. Then Starbucks come along and they all get 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:44.920 wiped out. But now I walk around New York City 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.159 and I see more small ownership, the single store, a 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:50.119 few of the three or four stores, and there's been 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:53.560 a proliferation and so the non Starbucks niche seems to 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.080 be slowly growing and growing, not unlike what's happened with 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:59.320 micro breweries in the beer area, not unlike has happened 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.320 with you know, the microdistilleries. And you see it's still 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.360 under ten percent, but it's growing quite dramatically in many places. 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:08.520 And I wonder, you know, when all of sitting done, 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.320 is that going to be the inevitable future of the 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.480 broader cannabis industry. I agree with you, actually, and I'll 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.160 tell you what it is. What happens is the big 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:21.760 companies get lazy, They start to manufacture a product which 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:26.160 is not uh, you know, interesting, They don't innovate, and 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:28.760 the consumer is always looking for the next great thing, 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.080 right Ethan. And you know, if I can get a 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:34.600 cup of coffee from a local brewer of coffee that's 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.720 much nicer than a Starbucks coffee, I'll even pay up 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:40.320 for that to get that cup of coffee. And I 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:42.040 think that that's what we're seeing. And we're not only 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.160 seeing that in the US, particularly in the coffee industry. 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:46.159 We're seeing that across the whole world. If you'll go 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:48.720 to the UK, you've got you know, Cafe Nero, You've 0:19:48.720 --> 0:19:50.760 got You've got a whole bunch of these different companies 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.040 that are coming up, and they're starting to challenge the 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.720 monopolies of you know, the Starbucks in the world, and 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.240 I encourage that. I always say to my people at 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.879 Cure Leaf, there's some kids sitting in a garage. Sorry 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.400 for the cliche, but that's you know, in the garage 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.479 thinking of a way to disrupt what we're doing, just 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:13.080 like we disrupted Cure Leaf. How the industry looked, you know, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.600 eight years ago, and so there's always somebody else. And 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:19.720 that's the beauty of the American system. And I believe 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.720 in the American capitalist system. It's not perfect. We have 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:25.399 a lot of problems, and we have a lot of 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.840 problems to fit. But when I'm not a believer in socialism, 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:31.720 and I never have been, and someone whose family ran 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.560 from communism, and someone who saw what was going on 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:36.919 in Russia in the early nineteen nineties when I went 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:38.960 over there as a young man to you know, put 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:42.159 off my footprint, my imprint on that economy, I can 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:45.399 tell you socialism doesn't work anywhere in the world. Of course, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:47.960 you put on a table with Boris Jourdan's one fascinating guy. 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.879