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Speaker 1: Welcome.

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Speaker 2: It is verdict with Senator Ted Cruz, Ben Ferguson with

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Speaker 2: you and Senator we now know the White House. They

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Speaker 2: know how to celebrate when it comes to Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: being convicted.

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Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly right. We have seen now the smirk

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Speaker 3: heard around the world, Joe Biden, jubilant, gleeful, celebrating and

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Speaker 3: spiking the football in the end zone at this political prosecution.

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Speaker 3: And it's not just a prosecution. It is a persecution

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Speaker 3: which Democrats believe will yield dividends. In November, we're going

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Speaker 3: to break down the fallout from the convictions in New

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Speaker 3: York and we're going to go into detail about precisely

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Speaker 3: why this was an abuse of power, the jury instructions

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Speaker 3: that were given in this trial, how this was rigged,

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Speaker 3: and the Democrats do not want anyone to acknowledge how

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Speaker 3: it was rigged. Well, we're going to give you the facts.

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Speaker 3: We're going to break it down.

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Speaker 2: It was shocking to see how gleeful the President of

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Speaker 2: the United States of America was at knowing that his

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Speaker 2: political opponent is now an official political prisoner.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, it is sad watching Joe Biden utterly gleeful

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Speaker 3: and not even pretending to hide it. You know, I

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Speaker 3: have to say, if you're going to do a kangaroo trial,

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Speaker 3: if you're going to go after your political opponents and

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Speaker 3: try to attack them and abuse the justice system, usually

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Speaker 3: people pretend they're not doing that. Well, not with Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: Take a look at how we reacted when he was asked.

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Speaker 4: About it, mister president. Can you tell us, sir, Donald

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Speaker 4: Trump prefers to himself as a political prisoner and blames

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Speaker 4: you directly. What's your response to that, sir? Do you

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Speaker 4: think the condition will have an impact on the campaign.

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Speaker 4: We'd love to hear.

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Speaker 3: Your thoughts, sir. Should you be on the ballot? Sir?

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Speaker 1: That's damning. I mean it's obvious he's saying, yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I did that.

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Speaker 3: Look it is disgusting. And I will say for those

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Speaker 3: of you all listening to the audio, as you know,

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Speaker 3: in this podcast, we do three shows a week that

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Speaker 3: are on audio. One of them typically is on video.

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Speaker 3: This is one of the video shows. So if you're

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Speaker 3: on audio, i'd encourage you go over to YouTube and

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Speaker 3: watch the video because you actually need to see see

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Speaker 3: the expression on his face. He's gleeful, He's not hiding it.

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Speaker 3: He is spiking the football and just shameless it is.

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Speaker 3: I'm abusing power. I'm reminded of of mel Brooks history

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Speaker 3: of the world. It's good to be the king. That's

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Speaker 3: actually what I thought. I could almost hear Biden saying,

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Speaker 3: I'm abusing my power, damn it, and I'm proud of it.

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Speaker 3: I will say this, the Trump campaign saw that and

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Speaker 3: immediately turned it around. They put together an ad. I

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Speaker 3: got to say, it's a heck of a powerful ad.

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Speaker 3: It's the same thing you've seen, you just saw, but

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Speaker 3: with a little bit of music, a little bit of context.

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Speaker 3: Take a look at this Trump ad.

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Speaker 5: Just was done. Guy.

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Speaker 6: The Biden administration order a boon or an opponent to

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Speaker 6: political appone, mister.

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Speaker 4: President, can you tell us, sir, Donald Trump prefers himself

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Speaker 4: as a political prisoner and blames you directly. What's your

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Speaker 4: response to that, sir?

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Speaker 2: Now, before I get your response, I want to tell

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Speaker 2: the continued threat of war, a national debt now exceeding

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Speaker 2: thirty four trillion, and the push for a central bank

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Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars in free silver.

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Speaker 1: Senator, that ad was a brilliant ad. Y.

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Speaker 2: I also think we can see that America saw that

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Speaker 2: smirk for what it was, a threat to our freedom

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Speaker 2: and democracy and our way of life in this country,

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Speaker 2: trying to imprison your political opponents. But even more than that,

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Speaker 2: people went to donate to Trump like never before. They're angry.

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Speaker 3: Fifty three million dollars in the first twenty four hours.

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Speaker 3: It was stunning. And by the way, I will say,

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Speaker 3: I think Republicans across the board saw that. I can

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Speaker 3: tell you in terms of my campaign website, we saw

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Speaker 3: a surge of donations there as well. I assume others

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Speaker 3: did as well. I think people saw what happened in

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Speaker 3: the campaign and they were pissed off, and they were

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Speaker 3: pissed off, and they had the reaction They're like, this

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Speaker 3: is wrong. We need to stand up and fight back.

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Speaker 3: You know, I got to say, watching that smirk, it's

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Speaker 3: in furiating. But it was a moment when the mask slipped.

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Speaker 3: And so the Democrats are playing a game. This political

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Speaker 3: prosecution was all about calling Trump a convicted felon. They

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Speaker 3: can now do that. They're going to do that every

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Speaker 3: single day until election day. Now, there's kind of a

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Speaker 3: script that you play when you're doing a kangaroo court.

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Speaker 3: When the court is over, what you say is is

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Speaker 3: all right to quote south Park, respect my authority. That's

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Speaker 3: supposed to be the line. Well Joe Biden managed when

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Speaker 3: he wasn't caught smirking through giving his genuine reaction to

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Speaker 3: read the script and say, we now have the verdict,

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Speaker 3: we must respect the authority. Give a listen to this

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Speaker 3: press conference of Joe Biden telling everyone shut up and

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Speaker 3: accept the results. Trump is a bad guy.

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Speaker 5: Just checking this afternoon, good afternoon. Before I began, Mary Marx,

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Speaker 5: I just wanted to say a few words about what

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Speaker 5: happened yesterday in New York City. The American principle that

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Speaker 5: no one is above the law was reaffirmed. Donald Trump

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Speaker 5: was given every opportunity to defend himself. It was a

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Speaker 5: state case not a federal case, and it was heard

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Speaker 5: by a jury of twelve citizens, twelve Americans, twelve people

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Speaker 5: like you, Like millions of Americans who served on jurys.

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Speaker 5: This jury is chosen the same way every jury in

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Speaker 5: America is chosen. It was the process that Donald Trump's attorney.

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Speaker 3: Was part of.

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Speaker 5: The jury heard five weeks of evidence, five weeks after

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Speaker 5: careful deliberation, the jury reached a unanimous verdict. They found

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Speaker 5: Donald Trump guilty on all thirty four felon accounts not

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Speaker 5: only be given the opportunity as he should to feel

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Speaker 5: that decision, just like everyone else has that opportunity. That's

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Speaker 5: how the American system of justice works. And it's reckless,

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Speaker 5: it's dangerous. It's irresponsible for anyone to say this was

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Speaker 5: rigged just because they don't like the verdict. Our justice

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Speaker 5: system is endured for nearly two hundred and fifty years,

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Speaker 5: and it literally is a cornerstone of America. Our justice system,

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Speaker 5: the justicystem should be respected and we should never allow

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Speaker 5: anyone to tear it down. It's as simple as that.

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Speaker 5: That's America, that's who we are, and that's who will

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Speaker 5: always be. God will he.

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Speaker 2: He says, it's irresponsible to say that this verdict was rigged,

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Speaker 2: that this jury was rigged, that all of this was rigged.

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Speaker 2: But then he smirks, basically saying, yeah, it was rigged,

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Speaker 2: and you should respect the system that we just rigged.

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Speaker 3: Look, I got to say listening to that, watching that,

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Speaker 3: it is infuriating. It makes my blood boil. He says,

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Speaker 3: it's reckless to do this, and we need to not

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Speaker 3: tear down the justice system. Nobody has torn down our

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Speaker 3: justice system more than that man, Joseph Robin at Biden

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Speaker 3: jor he has presided over number one, politicizing the Department

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Speaker 3: of Justice in a way that is utterly shameful, that

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Speaker 3: targets his political enemies, that protects his own corruption, and

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Speaker 3: at the same time he says, well, we got to

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Speaker 3: respect this system. He ignores the fact that Alvin Bragg

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Speaker 3: is a viciously partisan prosecutor, a Democrat who campaigns saying

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Speaker 3: I'm the guy to get Donald Trump. I'm the one

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Speaker 3: to get Donald Trump. I know how to get Donald Trump.

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Speaker 3: I'm the one to get Donald Trump. Joe Biden doesn't

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Speaker 3: acknowledge any of that. He doesn't acknowledge the fact that

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Speaker 3: the number three person at his own Justice department, left

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Speaker 3: the Department of Justice to go join the prosecution. He

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Speaker 3: has a line in there. This was a state case,

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Speaker 3: not a federal case, except for the fact that one

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Speaker 3: of the lead lawyers was your number three lawyer at

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Speaker 3: the Department of Justice. He doesn't ignore knowledge the fact

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Speaker 3: that this judge was a joke, was a rabid partisan,

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Speaker 3: was a donor to Joe Biden. He's one of his donors.

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Speaker 3: And you know what he behaved. You know, the man

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Speaker 3: should have been he should have taken off his black

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Speaker 3: robe and he should have put on a Biden hat

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Speaker 3: because it was a campaign. You want to talk about

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Speaker 3: an unacknowledged campaign contribution, how about every day Judge Merchamp

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Speaker 3: showed up to work. That was a campaign contribution. And

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Speaker 3: by the way, under their theory, it was clearly intended

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Speaker 3: to influence the outcome of the election. Alvin Bragg every day.

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Speaker 3: Apparently Joe Biden needs to disclose Alvin Bragg's salary on

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Speaker 3: his campaign finance reports because this is entirely intended to

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Speaker 3: influence the outcome of an election. It is Look, the

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Speaker 3: rule of law matters. What happened this week. It's infuriating,

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Speaker 3: and it's disappointing.

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Speaker 1: He's also premeditated.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they knew what they were doing by the smirk.

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Speaker 3: The smirk was the honesty that whole riff was. The

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Speaker 3: planned defense, by the way, was planned at the beginning.

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Speaker 3: They knew what they were going to say. It was

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Speaker 3: all about we do a kangaroo court. It's all over. Now.

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Speaker 3: Listen to the court. Listen to the court. No, no, no,

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Speaker 3: you can't call it a kangaroo court. Never mind the

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Speaker 3: kangaroo jumping up and down, ignore the facts, ignore the law.

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Speaker 3: We have someone who is wearing a robe who says

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Speaker 3: him bad. Okay, you got to keep us in power.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, that's all we care about that

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Speaker 3: Democrats stay in power.

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Speaker 2: They pre planned this and you can literally go back

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Speaker 2: years to see it. One of the Soros family members,

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Speaker 2: and I want to pull this tweet up because I

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Speaker 2: think it's an important point that you just made.

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Speaker 1: This was all orchestrated by design.

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Speaker 2: George Soros went out there and said, I want to

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Speaker 2: find people that are friendly to me. I'm going to

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Speaker 2: get them elected around the country. I'm going to weaponize

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Speaker 2: the court system, and then I'm going to get the

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Speaker 2: outcomes from weaponizing the court system. Alvin Bragg was the

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Speaker 2: first part of this master plan. You had to have

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Speaker 2: a prosecutor that was willing to say, I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to follow the law all and I'm going to do

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Speaker 2: egregious acts of partisanship to get us to a point

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Speaker 2: where we might be able to get to a court

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Speaker 2: And look at the tweet from Soros's son explaining that

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Speaker 2: we have won.

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Speaker 1: We are successful.

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Speaker 2: Quote Democrats to refer to Trump as a convicted felon

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Speaker 2: at every opportunity. Repetition is the key to a successful message.

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Speaker 2: And we want people to wrestle with a notion of

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Speaker 2: hiring a convicted felon for the most important job in

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Speaker 2: the country. And then the New York Times headline Trump

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Speaker 2: guilty on all counts. They plan this, yes, and it

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Speaker 2: was years in the making that.

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Speaker 3: They're all on the same team. Now. Alex Soros is

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Speaker 3: George Soros's son. By many reports, George Soros is he's

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Speaker 3: he's very elderly, and apparently he has diminished significantly, much

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Speaker 3: like Joe Biden, and so it is widely reported that

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Speaker 3: Alex Soros is running things now. Alex Soros is the

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Speaker 3: young hard leftist who is distributing billions of dollars funding

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Speaker 3: it all. And so how did Alvin Bragg get elected

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Speaker 3: with money from Soros? Massive money from Soros. By the way,

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Speaker 3: Soros is doing this all across the country, investing millions

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Speaker 3: and millions of dollars in electing left wing DA's who

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Speaker 3: let criminals out of jail, who won't prosecute murderers, And

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Speaker 3: it really is striking. They're not hiding it. No, look

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Speaker 3: at this tweet. Democrats should refer to Trump as a

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Speaker 3: convicted felon at every opportunity. As we said on Friday's pod,

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Speaker 3: the entire purpose of this was for them to be

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Speaker 3: able to call him a convicted felon. Repetition is the

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Speaker 3: key to a successful message. This is all about message.

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Speaker 3: This is all about politics. They're not hiding it. It's

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Speaker 3: why Joe Biden's smirking, which is our political plan, worked.

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Speaker 3: Although I'm not convinced it worked. I actually think it

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Speaker 3: think it may well backfire. They think people are stupid.

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Speaker 3: They think repetition is the key. If we say it

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Speaker 3: a lot, people will be stupid and just believe it.

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Speaker 3: I think people have some real common sense. I think

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Speaker 3: people understand this was a sham.

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Speaker 2: You look at the sham and you see the media respond.

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Speaker 2: We could play fifty clips the media. Most people that

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Speaker 2: are listening, they know what was said. But there's also

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Speaker 2: this psychotic gleefulness over the idea now that they're saying,

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Speaker 2: not only we're gonna call him a convicted felon, but Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump can't travel outside the country to many other countries.

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Speaker 2: Do you really want that got to be your president?

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Speaker 2: I mean this is they obviously knew what they were

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Speaker 2: gonna say long before he was convicted, and play it

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Speaker 2: out for this campaign, knowing that the appeal wouldn't happen

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Speaker 2: in time.

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Speaker 3: Look, this is all about politics. The appeal will succeed,

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Speaker 3: this will be reversed on appeal, But this is all

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Speaker 3: about attacking Trump. And I will say this. Trump came

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Speaker 3: out and gave a press conference, and I want you

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Speaker 3: to listen to the point he made. This is very brief,

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Speaker 3: but it is a fundamental point that ought to scare

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Speaker 3: the hell out of everybody.

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Speaker 6: Give a listen a case where if they can do

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Speaker 6: this to me, they can do this to anyone.

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Speaker 2: I think that's incredibly powerful reminder. If the Democrats line

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Speaker 2: is remind him and say it over and over again.

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Speaker 2: He's a convicted felon. Donald Trump's line should be over

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Speaker 2: and over again. If they can do this to me,

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Speaker 2: a former president United States of America, they can do

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Speaker 2: it to any one of you.

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Speaker 3: And let's let's use an example. Ben. You're you're an

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Speaker 3: influential guy. You're well known, You've got a very popular podcast.

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Speaker 3: You are on the radio. You've been on the radio

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Speaker 3: since you were twelve years old. Who long time? Let

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Speaker 3: me ask you something. Are you a billionaire? No? Do

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Speaker 3: you have a billion dollars in the bank.

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Do you have a team of lawyers on retainer?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Were you president of the United States?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: Do you have universal name idea across the globe?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 3: Do you have a jet with your name on the

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Speaker 3: side of it. If they can do it to him,

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Speaker 3: it's a hell of a lot easier to squash he

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Speaker 3: Ben Fergus than it is a Donald J.

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Speaker 4: Trump.

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Speaker 3: If they can do it to him, whoever is listening,

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Speaker 3: there's nobody listening. They could do it to me. They

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Speaker 3: could do it to you. They can do it to anybody.

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Speaker 3: They are grinning. We can destroy you and we don't care.

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Speaker 3: It is all about power. Look We talk a lot

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Speaker 3: on this podcast about Marxism, and as you know, I

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Speaker 3: wrote a whole book, my last book, Unwoke, how to

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Speaker 3: defeat cultural Marxism in America. For me, Marxism is very

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Speaker 3: real because my family has suffered and been imprisoned and

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Speaker 3: tortured by Marxists. They care about power, the same thugs

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Speaker 3: that will throw you in prison. They're trying to do

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Speaker 3: the same thing to Donald Trump right now because all

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Speaker 3: they care about is power.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the step forward for Trump and using

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Speaker 2: not just a smirk, but also using this court case

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Speaker 2: to explain the American people just how rigged it is.

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Speaker 2: I think that's an important point for him. He's gonna

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Speaker 2: have to go out there and explain this is how

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Speaker 2: all this went down, this is how corrupt it was.

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Speaker 1: How much into the weeds does he need to go

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Speaker 1: into that?

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Speaker 3: I don't think he needs to get into the weeds

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Speaker 3: a lot. I think think we're going to provide details

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Speaker 3: in just a few minutes that will give you give

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Speaker 3: you some backup on that. But look, I think people

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Speaker 3: know you look at this. Everyone involved in this is

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Speaker 3: obviously a partisan. It's why I get so angry at

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden saying it's reckless to tear down our justice

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Speaker 3: system because he's the one tearing down the justice system.

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Speaker 3: I watched that that press conference, and it reminds me

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Speaker 3: of like an arsonist holding cans of gasoline with with

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Speaker 3: matches in his hands, saying, stop complaining about me lighting

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Speaker 3: buildings on fire. He's the one burning our justice system

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Speaker 3: to the ground, and their real consequences to it. There

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Speaker 3: are real consequences to people losing faith. What he actually

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Speaker 3: said about our system of justice is a cornerstone of America.

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Speaker 3: That is correct. Look, if you contrast America to Banana republics,

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Speaker 3: the difference is you have the rule of law. The

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Speaker 3: difference is you don't do this. And these democrats they

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Speaker 3: hate Trump so much they don't care. They're willing to

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Speaker 3: destroy it. And all right, let let's get to Alvin Bragg.

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Speaker 3: Alvin Bragg minds you, he's suddenly tough on crime. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this is a guy who if you murder people, if

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Speaker 3: you rate people, you walk down the street and you

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Speaker 3: punch a little old lady in the face, Alvin Bragg

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Speaker 3: will let you go.

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Speaker 2: Three the illegal immigrants attacked a police officer on camera.

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Speaker 1: Let him walk out.

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Speaker 3: The same day, the same day, the same day. Let

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Speaker 3: him go. This is a man who was elected to

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Speaker 3: let violent criminals go. That's what Soros wanted. Let violent

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Speaker 3: criminals go. New York will be better with more murderers

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Speaker 3: on the street. New York will be better with more

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Speaker 3: rapists on the street. That is their view. Now I

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Speaker 3: want you to listen to what Donald Trump said, because

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Speaker 3: he made a very powerful point on exactly this.

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Speaker 6: We had a DA who is a failed DA. Crime

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Speaker 6: is ramped into New York. Violent crime, that's what he's

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Speaker 6: really supposed to be looking at. Crime is ramp into

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Speaker 6: New York. Yesterday and McDonald's you had a man hitting

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Speaker 6: him up with machetes a machete. Whoever can imagine even

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Speaker 6: a machete being wielded in a store in a place

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Speaker 6: where they're eating and they's going rampant, and Bragg is

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Speaker 6: down watching a trial on what they call.

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Speaker 3: Crimes crimes.

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Speaker 1: He's got a great point.

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Speaker 2: This guy shouldn't be in this court with Donald Trump

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Speaker 2: when this is what he's dealing with, machete wielding individuals

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Speaker 2: in New York.

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Speaker 3: So literally, on the day of the trial, there was

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Speaker 3: a lunatic with a machete in a McDonald's threatening people.

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Speaker 3: Now you would think, what is a district attorney supposed

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Speaker 3: to be doing? I would think pretty high on the

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Speaker 3: list is protecting me from machetes. Like if some guy

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Speaker 3: brings out a machete and is trying to hurt people,

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Speaker 3: the DA ought to arrest him and prosecute him. But no,

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Speaker 3: you know, what's a decapitated person or two. When you're

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Speaker 3: talking about Democrats, they're willing to look the other way

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Speaker 3: at that. What was Alvin Bragg doing? He had a

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Speaker 3: political objective to be in that courtroom because he's trying

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Speaker 3: to bloody Donald Trump, he's trying to reelect Joe Biden,

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Speaker 3: he's trying to stay in power. And I want to

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Speaker 3: break down some of the materials so that There's a

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Speaker 3: very interesting article that was written in The Intelligencer, and

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Speaker 3: it's by Elie Honik, who is a CNN legal commentator,

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Speaker 3: not a conservative, but he is a real lawyer, and

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Speaker 3: he analyzes and and breaks down a lot of the

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Speaker 3: enormous legal problems with what happened in this trial. Let

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Speaker 3: me read read briefly what he said. He said the

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Speaker 3: District Attorney's press office and its flax often proclaim that

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Speaker 3: falsification of business records charges, which is what they went

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Speaker 3: after Trump on, are quote commonplace, and indeed the office

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Speaker 3: is quote bread and butter. That's true only if you

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Speaker 3: draw definitional lines so broad is to render them meaningless.

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Speaker 3: Of course, the DA charges falsification quite frequently. Virtually any

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Speaker 3: fraud case involves some sort of fake documentation, so it's

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Speaker 3: often an add on to some other case. It's one

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Speaker 3: of the additional crimes that's committed. But let me continue

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Speaker 3: from elihonik. But when you impose meaningful search parameters, the

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Speaker 3: truth emerges. The charges against Trump are obscure and nearly

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Speaker 3: entirely unprecedented. Now listen to this next sentence. In fact,

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Speaker 3: no state prosecutor in New York or Wyoming or anywhere

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Speaker 3: has ever listened to that word, ever charged federal election

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Speaker 3: laws as a direct or predicate state crime against anyone

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Speaker 3: for anything, none ever, Even putting aside the specifics of

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Speaker 3: election law, The Manhattan DA itself almost never brings any

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Speaker 3: case in which falsification of business records is the only charge,

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Speaker 3: so that starts off of the front end. This is unusual.

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Speaker 3: They had to get incredibly creative.

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Speaker 1: Not just unusual, never been done before.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean we.

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Speaker 2: Literally said, no one's been super enough to do it.

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Speaker 2: But we packed this court. We got the judge we want,

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Speaker 2: We got the da we want. We got a guy

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Speaker 2: that the majority of the people in this area actually hate.

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Speaker 2: They knew this. You couldn't have planned this any better.

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Speaker 2: And it goes back to the George Soros money. We

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Speaker 2: got the money to get the guy we want elected.

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Speaker 2: We got the judge. He gave money to Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: We've set up this kangaroo court from beginning to end

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Speaker 2: exactly how you'd have to do it to get this

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Speaker 2: to happen.

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Speaker 3: That's right now. One of the things that we have

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Speaker 3: today that we did not have we did the last

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Speaker 3: podcast is we actually have the jury instruction. So I've

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Speaker 3: gotten written jury instructions, been able to read them before.

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Speaker 3: I was relying on news reports of what the judge said,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't actually have them in front of me.

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Speaker 3: So understand that the sort of Rube Goldberg machine that

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Speaker 3: they invented to try to get anything to get Trump

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Speaker 3: the cl The crime is falsifying business records. That's a misdemeanor.

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Speaker 3: By the way, a misdemeanor. Do you know the definition

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Speaker 3: of a misdemeanor with the different differences between a misdemeanor

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Speaker 3: and a felony. A misdemeanor is a crime that is

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Speaker 3: punishable by less than a year in jail. The definition

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Speaker 3: of a felony is a crime that is punishable by

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Speaker 3: a year or more in jail, So that's the cutoff. Felonies,

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Speaker 3: understandably are more serious.

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Speaker 2: Speeding ticket, parking ticket all misdemeanors because you don't go

435
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:39,959
Speaker 2: to jail for over a year.

436
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 3: Fright jaywalking, those are misdemeanors. Murder is a felony. Rape

437
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: is a felony. Burglary is a felony. Crimes that are serious,

438
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 3: so falsification of business record, it is a misdemeanor. It's

439
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 3: punishable by less than a year, and it has a

440
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,640
Speaker 3: two year statute of limitations, which means the prosecutor has

441
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,639
Speaker 3: two years to bring the case. All of this happened

442
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 3: years go back in twenty sixteen, so the statute of

443
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 3: limitations expired years ago. So every one of the charges

444
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 3: that Alvin Bragg brought you can't bring now under the

445
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,880
Speaker 3: plain text because two years is passed. So New York has, however,

446
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 3: a mechanism to elevate that crime to a felony if

447
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 3: the falsification of business record is done with the intent

448
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: to conceal another crime. And so I want to break

449
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: down these jury instructions because it's going to show just

450
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 3: how absurd this was. One thing linked upon another, linked

451
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: upon another. So page twenty nine of the jury instructions

452
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 3: herees what the judge told the jury intent to commit

453
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 3: or conceal another crime for the crime of falsifying business

454
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: records in the first degree, the intent to defraud must

455
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 3: include an intent to commit another crime or to aid

456
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 3: or conceal the commission thereof. Under our law, though the

457
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 3: people must prove an intent to commit another crime or

458
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,119
Speaker 3: to aid or conceal the commission thereof, they need not

459
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 3: prove that the other crime was in fact committed, aided

460
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: or concealed. So understand this other crime, which is the

461
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 3: magic ticket that elevates these these misdemeanors to felonies and

462
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 3: extends the statutal limitationcy you can suddenly prosecute them. The

463
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 3: prosecutor quote need not prove that the other crime was

464
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 3: in fact committed, aided or concealed. So it's a crime

465
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 3: that doesn't have to have happened, all right, So let's

466
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 3: read some more New York election Law section seventeen one

467
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 3: to fifty two predicate. Here's what the judge instructed the jury.

468
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 3: The people alleged that the other crime the defendant intended

469
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,919
Speaker 3: to commit aid or conceal is a violation of New

470
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 3: York election Law section seventeen one fifty two. Okay, that's

471
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 3: some clarity that we didn't have through much of the trial.

472
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 3: But the judge actually specifies, all right, this is the

473
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 3: quote other crime. What is section seventeen one to fifty

474
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: two of New York election law provides, Well, it provides

475
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 3: that quote, any two or more persons who conspire to

476
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 3: promote or prevent the election of any person to a

477
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 3: public office by unlawful means, and which conspiracy is acted

478
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 3: upon by one or more parties, there too, shall be

479
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 3: guilty of conspiracy to promote or prevent on election. And

480
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 3: so the keywords there are unlawful means, two or more

481
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 3: persons who conspire to promote or prevent the election of

482
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 3: any person to a public office by unlawful means. So

483
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 3: those two words unlawful means are the entire foundation on

484
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: which this whole case is built. Now, what does unlawful

485
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 3: means mean? And this is the most important jury instruction.

486
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 3: This will be the basis for reversal when this case

487
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 3: is appealed, it will be There are lots of reasons

488
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 3: to reverse it, but this is the easiest and clearest.

489
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 3: Here's what unlawful means means. And it's just two paragrass

490
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 3: It's very short quote. Although you must conclude unanimously that

491
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:08,639
Speaker 3: the defendant conspired to promote or prevent the election of

492
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: any person to a public office by unlawful means, you

493
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 3: need not be unanimous as to what those unlawful means were.

494
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 3: In determining whether the defendant conspired to promote or prevent

495
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 3: the election of any person to a public office by

496
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 3: unlawful means, you may consider the following one violations of

497
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 3: the Federal Election Campaign Act otherwise known as FICA, two

498
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 3: the falsification of other business records, or three violation of

499
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 3: tax laws. So we've talked about how the US Supreme

500
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 3: Court has long made clear in order to convict someone

501
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 3: of a crime, you must prove beyond a reasonable doubt

502
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 3: every element of the crime, and the jury must found

503
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 3: find unanimously that you are guilty. You have committed every

504
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 3: element of the crime. What the judge just said, there

505
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 3: is no no number one. This unlawful means means anything unlawful,

506
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,800
Speaker 3: like whatever, like. We're not going to define it, but

507
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 3: I'm going to give you three jurors choice, your pick.

508
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: It's like mix and match, choose your own adventure. A

509
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 3: couple people say, I think it was federal campaign finance law.

510
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,040
Speaker 3: Someone else. You know, it was violation of the tax laws.

511
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 3: By the way, they don't specify what about the tax laws?

512
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 3: Did you violate the tax laws?

513
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 4: Yep?

514
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 3: Okay. Then suddenly this is a felony. Then suddenly the

515
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 3: statute of limitations is extended. Then suddenly, instead of less

516
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 3: than a year, you can sentence Donald Trump to over

517
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 3: one hundred years.

518
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: Is it fair to say that the judge basically gave

519
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: instructions to the jury that almost put them in a

520
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: position where there's no way to not find them guilty

521
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: because there's such ambiguity.

522
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 3: The way they define this. The judge knew damn well

523
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 3: it was all but forcing the jury to render a

524
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 3: guilty verdict now, I still think a juror should have

525
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 3: said no. And by the way, there is a long

526
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 3: tradition in our juris prudence of what's called jury nullification,

527
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: which is there are times when this has happened repeatedly

528
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 3: where a juror says, you know what, you may give

529
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: me instructions that I've got to do X, Y and Z,

530
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: but this is garbage, this is bs no, this is

531
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,719
Speaker 3: a miscarriage of justice. And that's part of the reason

532
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 3: our system has a jury system, is to have twelve

533
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 3: ordinary people as a check on the prosecution and on

534
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 3: the justice system. It's why I held out hope for

535
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 3: a hung jury that someone would say this is so

536
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: obviously garbage. I won't play a part, but I will

537
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 3: say I feel some sympathy for the jurors because reading this.

538
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,480
Speaker 3: Here's the instruction that the judge gave about the Federal

539
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 3: Election Campaign Act. The terms contribution and expenditure include anything

540
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 3: of value, including any purchase, payment, loan, or advance, made

541
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: by any person, for the purpose of influencing any election

542
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 3: for federal office. Under federal law, a third party's payment

543
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 3: of candidate's expenses is deemed to be a contribution to

544
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: the candidate unless the payment would have been made irrespective

545
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 3: of the candidacy. So in this instance, the focus was

546
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: on the money that Michael Cohen paid to Stormy Daniels,

547
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: the so called hush money to keep her quiet about

548
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: the alleged affair. Now, under this instruction, the judge is

549
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 3: basically told the jury that is a campaign finance violation.

550
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 3: He says any payment, any payment of candidate's expenses is

551
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: deemed to be a contribution unless the payment would have

552
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: been made irrespective of the candidacy. Now, the judge did

553
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 3: not allow Brad Smith, the chairman former chairman of the

554
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 3: Federal Elections Commission, to testify, and that instruction on federal

555
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 3: campaign finance law is woefully incomplete. So Brad Smith put

556
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 3: out a tweet thread that actually explained federal campaign finance law.

557
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 3: I want to read it and walk through that because

558
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: it will show why the judges jury instructions were so deficient.

559
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 2: Before we do that, I want to talk to you

560
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: about one of my commitments, and that is I am

561
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: sick and tired of giving my money to companies that

562
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 2: do not stand with my values. And in the coffee business,

563
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 2: there are a lot of liberal companies out there. You

564
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 2: probably had two or three pop into your brain right

565
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: when I said that. Well, I start my day every

566
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 2: morning at seven am on the radio. I've got to

567
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: be awake and I want a premium cup of coffee

568
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 2: to start my day that, honestly I can look forward to.

569
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 1: And that is why I switched to Blackout Coffee.

570
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 2: Now, Blackout Coffee is one hundred percent America and zero

571
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 2: percent woke. They are committed to conservative values from sourcing

572
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: the beans to the roasting process, customer support and shipping,

573
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: and they embody true American values and they accept no

574
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 2: compromise on taste or quality. Now, Blackout Coffee is a

575
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 2: premium cup of coffee.

576
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: It's not average, and I want you to try it.

577
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to give you a discount to give it

578
00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 2: a shot, because when you do, you're never going to

579
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 2: switch back. Go to Blackoutcoffee dot com, slash verdict. That's

580
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: Blackoutcoffee dot com slash verdict and use the coupon code

581
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: Verdict for twenty percent off your first order. That's Blackoutcoffee

582
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: dot com slash verdict.

583
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: Be awake, not woke.

584
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 2: Try Blackout Coffee at Blackoutcoffee dot com slash verdict and

585
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: use that promo code verdict for twenty percent off your

586
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 2: first order centata. I want you to go over what

587
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: you were just describing, because it's amazing that the guy

588
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 2: that should have been able to go before the court

589
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,640
Speaker 2: and explain these laws and how they work to the

590
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: jury was barred from testifying, and that's why apparently he

591
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 2: decided to put out this long tweet.

592
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: Now, so this is this is a tweet thread. I'm

593
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 3: just gonna read it. Let's take a stab. False Falsefying

594
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 3: business records under New York law is a misdemeanor unless

595
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 3: it is done to hide a crime. Bragg says that

596
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 3: crime was a violation of Federal Election Campaign Act FIICA,

597
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,720
Speaker 3: or of a New York statute making it illegal to

598
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 3: inflight LUNs an election by unlawful means. But if the latter,

599
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: what is the quote unlawful means? That's what we were talking

600
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: about a minute ago, an alleged violation of FICA. So

601
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: it comes down to FICA. There are two potential violations here.

602
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 3: One is the acceptance of an unlawful contribution by the campaign.

603
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 3: The other is incorrect reporting of a contribution by the campaign.

604
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,000
Speaker 3: Either way, we have to have a campaign contribution that

605
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 3: allegedly occurred when Cohen advanced money to pay the Stormy

606
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 3: Daniel settlement. FIKA defines a contribution as a payment made

607
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 3: quote for the purpose of influencing an election. The twenty

608
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 3: sixteen max legal contribution was twenty seven hundred dollars. This

609
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: looks bad for Trump. It's pretty easy to conclude the

610
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 3: payment was made to influence an election by buying Daniel's silence, right,

611
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 3: and Cohen paid Daniels one hundred and thirty thousand dollars,

612
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 3: way over the limit. Well, it's not so simple. First,

613
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 3: let's clear something up. Cohen just loaned them, he was

614
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: paid back, and then some So where some ask is

615
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 3: the contribution. But this is not a winner for Trump.

616
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: Under the law, a contribution includes a loan unless made

617
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,399
Speaker 3: in the ordinary course of business EGA bank. So that's

618
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:19,279
Speaker 3: not a good argument. But for context, note that there

619
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,879
Speaker 3: is no limit on how much Trump can pay can

620
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 3: contribute to his own campaign. By October twenty seventh, when

621
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: Daniels was paid, Trump had already spent over sixty million

622
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 3: dollars of his own money on the campaign. It would

623
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 3: have been easy for him to toss in another one

624
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:36,280
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty thousand dollars. Now back to the definition

625
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,240
Speaker 3: of contribution. If they bought Daniels's silence to quote influence

626
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 3: an election, what the prosecution is alleged. Isn't that a

627
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 3: contribution and also a campaign expenditure which mirrors the contribution definition.

628
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 3: First common sense, we know that a campaign expense is

629
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 3: not literally any payment made quote for purpose of influencing

630
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 3: an election, and reading the statute that way would be

631
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: way too broad. For example, in nineteen ninety nine, Bill

632
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 3: and Hillary Clinton bought a house in New York. One

633
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,359
Speaker 3: reason they did so was so that Hillary could run

634
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 3: for US Senate from New York. In other words, the

635
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 3: expenditure was clearly done in part quote for the purpose

636
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 3: of influencing an election. Is it a campaign expenditure underfeaka?

637
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 3: Of course not common sense. How about if a would

638
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 3: be candidate pays a lawyer to seal old divorce records

639
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 3: because he's afraid that, if revealed, they would be damaging

640
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 3: to his candidacy campaign expense, No, clearly not, even though

641
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 3: done quote for the purpose of influencing an election. Or

642
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:49,200
Speaker 3: suppose a business owner wants to settle pending lawsuits against

643
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 3: his businesses before running for Congress. He thinks the lawsuits

644
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 3: are bs, but he's afraid the press will make a

645
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 3: big deal of the allegations. Can he pay the settlements

646
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 3: with campaign funds? The answer obviously is no, even though

647
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: there is no legal obligation to pay them, and the

648
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: settlements would be paid specifically quote to influence an election.

649
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: In fact, in each of these examples, it would be

650
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 3: unlawful to make the payments with campaign funds. I'm gonna

651
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 3: take a pause here. Understand what Alvin Bragg's argument is.

652
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 3: He's saying Trump had to use campaign funds to pay

653
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 3: off Stormy Daniels. That's an idiotic rule. And by the way,

654
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 3: it's a rule that says every candidate for public office,

655
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,399
Speaker 3: if you're paying to settle a lawsuit dealing with whether

656
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: you had an affair, you must use your campaign funds

657
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 3: to do so. That's absurd. And what Brad Smith is

658
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 3: saying is if you did that, the Federal Election Commission

659
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 3: would go after you. Let me go back to what

660
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 3: Brad Smith, because he explains it a little bit more.

661
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 3: This is because and this is the part that the

662
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 3: judge left out of the jury instruction didn't tell the jury,

663
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 3: so they didn't know this. There's another part of that.

664
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,280
Speaker 3: The judge just said, ignore this part because it shows

665
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 3: that Trump hasn't violated the law. Rat Smith, former chairman

666
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: of the FEC charged with enforcing this law. Quote. This

667
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 3: is because FIICA also prohibits using campaign funds for quote

668
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 3: personal use. So you got to ask is it personal use?

669
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 3: If yes, you can't use campaign funds aka Hillary Clinton

670
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 3: buying a house right in New York? Exactly what is

671
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 3: quote personal use? Under Federal Election Commission regulations, and the

672
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,759
Speaker 3: FEC has primary authority for interpreting the law. It is

673
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 3: any obligation that would exist irrespective of the candidacy. Indeed,

674
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 3: the FEC regulations make clear that a mixed motive doesn't

675
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 3: make something a campaign expense. If the obligation would exist

676
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: irrespective of the campaign, paying it with campaign funds is

677
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:59,720
Speaker 3: personal use and therefore illegal. Certainly, Daniels used the campaign

678
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 3: to push or Trump and for the most money she could.

679
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 3: The timing affected the value of the allegations, but the

680
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 3: obligation didn't exist because Trump was a candidate. It predated

681
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 3: his candidacy, and it was not created by his being

682
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 3: a candidate. She could have shut him, shook him down

683
00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: for hush money at any point, whether or not he

684
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: was running for president. Brad didn't say that. I said that.

685
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: Brad continues, Let's use common sense. Is it a campaign

686
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 3: expense to pay a non disclosure agreement for something arising

687
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,719
Speaker 3: out of events ten years earlier and not caused by

688
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: the act of being a candidate. Is paying hush money

689
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 3: a campaign expense? Duh, No, And we wouldn't want it

690
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 3: to be. This is really important. We wouldn't want it

691
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: to be. We don't want candidates using campaign funds to

692
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 3: pay personal expenses, whether new clothes, a weight loss program,

693
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 3: or a gym member purchase, to help the candidate look better.

694
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 3: And therefore, quote for the purpose of influencing an election,

695
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: you can't use campaign finance funds for that.

696
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 2: So when you're running for office, just to be very

697
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 2: clear on his point, you can't say I'm going to

698
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 2: take a fifty thousand dollars wardrobe for all these campaign

699
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 2: events because it's still technically closed for you personally.

700
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can't do that at all. You can't buy

701
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 3: your clothes using cap I.

702
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: Need a haircut or and I'm gonna get one every day.

703
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 3: You can't do any of that. You can cannot do,

704
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 3: and they'll go after you for it. If you do it,

705
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: they will go after you for personal use. Let me

706
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 3: finish what he said. He only had a couple more

707
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 3: and certainly not to pay non disclosure agreements to keep

708
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:44,279
Speaker 3: embarrassing info hidden In summary, for the purpose of influencing

709
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 3: an election is an objective standard. The motive of the

710
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 3: donor of the spender doesn't matter. So what are expenditures?

711
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: Paying campaign staff? Are expenditures? Are a campaign expenditure? Buying

712
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 3: ads for the candidate, paying fundraising costs, paying a cant

713
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 3: paign accountant, paying for polling, travel to campaign events. Basically

714
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 3: all the obligations you incuraged solely because you were running

715
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 3: for office. The FEC's approach is consistent with the US

716
00:40:13,560 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, which is consistently held in every case in

717
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 3: Speaker was passed fifty years ago that its definition of

718
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: contribution and expenditure must be objective, not subjective, to avoid

719
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: being unconstitutionally vague. None of that went to the jury,

720
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 3: so the jury was just told, well, if it could

721
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 3: influence the election, you got to find it's a violation

722
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,839
Speaker 3: of law that has flat out false, and they were

723
00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 3: not told. If Trump had done what Alvin Bragg said

724
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 3: he needed to do, the FEC would have charged him

725
00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 3: with a personal use violation with using campaign funds illegally.

726
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 3: The jury didn't know that because the judge didn't want

727
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: him to know.

728
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 2: That, and that's why they said you can't come and testify.

729
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,439
Speaker 3: Yes, and he also vented the lawyers from arguing this.

730
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 3: But by the way, so that was one ground. The

731
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 3: other two grounds that could be unlawful means. And you

732
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,439
Speaker 3: could have three jurors on one and five on another,

733
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 3: and four other like they could mix and match the

734
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,359
Speaker 3: other ground.

735
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of a jury where that was it? Okay,

736
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: this thing, you understand.

737
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 2: It's weird that Usually it's you either got to be

738
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 2: all in lockstep, yeah, or you're not. So it's either

739
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 2: your innocent or guilty because a twelve agree, and or

740
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 2: if they disagree, one of them disagrees.

741
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: Were done.

742
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 3: Find the elements of the crime.

743
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 1: He said, find your own path too.

744
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,440
Speaker 3: Guilty, Yeah, whatever you want. The objective is guilty. You

745
00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 3: come up with however you want to get there, all right,

746
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:42,040
Speaker 3: So one was the Federal campaign Finance on his instructions

747
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,319
Speaker 3: are wonefully deficient. He only includes part of the rule.

748
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 3: He leaves out the other half, which is explains why

749
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 3: Trump shouldn't have done so. And it would have been

750
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 3: a mistake to do it the way the prosecutor wanted

751
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 3: him to do, and he would have been charged with it.

752
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 3: I mean it would have been he would have been

753
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 3: violating the law to do what Alvin Bragg is saying

754
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: he should have done. Another supposed basis of unlawful means

755
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 3: was falsification of other business records. The second of the

756
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 3: people's theories. This is from the jury instruction. The second

757
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 3: of the people's theories of unlawful means, which I will

758
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 3: define for you now, is the falsification of other business

759
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 3: records for purposes of determining whether falsifizing business to records,

760
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,920
Speaker 3: and the second degree was an unlawful means used by

761
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 3: a conspiracy to promote or prevent election. Here you may

762
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 3: consider the bank records associated with Michael Cohen's account formation,

763
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 3: the bank records association with Michael Cohens wired to Keith Davidson,

764
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 3: the invoice from Investor Advisory Services, and the ten ninety

765
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 3: nine MISK form of the Trumpet Organization issued to Michael Cohenes. So,

766
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:48,280
Speaker 3: in other words, they're thirty four counts of false business records.

767
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 3: They're all the identical charge. They just occur thirty four

768
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 3: different times, thirty four different entries in the bookmarks. What

769
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 3: he's saying is, you know what, every one of these

770
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 3: is a misdemeanor. But if you say you made one

771
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 3: of these entries to assist in another of these entries,

772
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 3: then they're all felonies. Wow, Like it is the most

773
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: circular reasoning that just makes no sense. And by the way,

774
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 3: let's go to the third one, because the third one

775
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 3: just makes me laugh out loud. The people's third theory

776
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 3: of unlawful means, which I will define for you now,

777
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,120
Speaker 3: is a violation of tax laws. Under New York State

778
00:43:29,160 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 3: and New York City law, it is unlawful to knowingly

779
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,760
Speaker 3: supply or submit materially false or fraudulent information in connection

780
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 3: with any tax return. Likewise, under federal law, it is

781
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 3: unlawful for a person to willfully make any tax return, statement,

782
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 3: or other document that is fraudulent or false as at

783
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 3: any material matter, or that the person does not believe

784
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 3: to be true and correctest to every material matter. I

785
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 3: listened to this last sentence. Under these federal, state, and

786
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 3: local laws, such conduct is unlawful even if it does

787
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 3: not result in the underpayment of taxes. So, in other words,

788
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 3: he told the jury, by the way, you can find

789
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 3: a violation of tax laws even if you paid you

790
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 3: didn't pay any less taxes, even if you didn't defraud anyone,

791
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 3: even if you're not using it to cheat on your taxes,

792
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 3: if you think there's something in the tax laws. And

793
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 3: by the way, there is no person on planet Earth

794
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 3: who understands all of the tax laws. You know, there

795
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 3: was a book that was written years ago called three

796
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:24,879
Speaker 3: Felonies a Day, and it argues that all of us

797
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 3: living in this complex world commit three felonies a day

798
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 3: between tax laws and environmental laws. There's just so much regulations.

799
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 3: If you are doing anything, if you're filling out a

800
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 3: credit card application, an aggressive prosecutor can find three felonies

801
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 3: a day that Ben Ferguson has committed in this instance.

802
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 3: That jury instruction says, well, if you can figure out

803
00:44:45,680 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 3: if you think there was any.

804
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: Lime up with your own theory, basically.

805
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 3: Come up with your own theory. And by the way,

806
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 3: the violation of tax law, doesn't have to have taken

807
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,279
Speaker 3: a penny of taxes from New York City, New York

808
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:01,839
Speaker 3: State of the federal government. And if you think there

809
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 3: was some amorphous violation of tax law that didn't result

810
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 3: in any underpayment of taxes, suddenly, presto chanjoh. These misdemeanors

811
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:14,720
Speaker 3: that we can't prosecute the statute of limitations that extended.

812
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 3: They're now felonies, and we can sentence Donald Trump to

813
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: one hundred years in jail. One hundred and thirty four

814
00:45:19,719 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: years in jail.

815
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 2: In other words, orange man bad, find your way to

816
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: figure out how to say he's guilty.

817
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,399
Speaker 3: That's exactly what this was all about. This is politics.

818
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 3: It'll get reversed on appeal, but the judge doesn't care.

819
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 3: He knows that The purpose is what Alex Soro said.

820
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,880
Speaker 3: The purpose is what Joe Biden said. The purpose is

821
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: all the Democrats at all the media get to call

822
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: him a felon over and over and over again between

823
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:51,720
Speaker 3: now an election day. This is a five month battle.

824
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: It's not a five year battle. The purpose is not

825
00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 3: to put Donald Trump in jail. They know that's not

826
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 3: gonna happen.

827
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: Cost the election.

828
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,839
Speaker 3: They are trying to win. This is about keeping Joe

829
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 3: Biden to the Democrats in power because it's all they

830
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: care about, and they're willing to burn the justice system

831
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: to the ground to keep the Democrats in power.

832
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 2: One more question I want to ask of you, and

833
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 2: it deals with what's next for Trump. But before we

834
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 2: do that, I want to say thank you to so

835
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 2: many of you that are listeners and watchers of this

836
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 2: podcast for getting involved with the International Fellowship of Christians

837
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,360
Speaker 2: and Jews. Since a tear attack on October seventh, anti

838
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,280
Speaker 2: Semitism has been on the rise, not just in Israel

839
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: but here at home, in the US and around the world.

840
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,840
Speaker 2: And that is why I've partnered with the International Fellowship

841
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 2: of Christians and Jews to make a difference for the

842
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 2: needs of those in Israel right now. They are asking

843
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 2: for help when it comes to actually giving and putting

844
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: up bomb shelters as well as the supplies you need

845
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 2: while you were in that bomb shelter. For the month

846
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,240
Speaker 2: of June. We're asking Christians to sign this pledge will

847
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 2: deliver to the President of Israel to show that Christians

848
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,520
Speaker 2: in America are not only standing in solidarity, but they

849
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:10,760
Speaker 2: are speaking up as well. So let's take a stand

850
00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 2: today with the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews and

851
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 2: let the Jewish people know that they are not alone.

852
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: They need your help. And if you're ready to pledge

853
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 2: to stand side by side with your Jewish brothers and

854
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 2: sisters to never be silent, to show the Jewish people

855
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: that they're not alone, that they have God and Christians

856
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: standing by their side. To sign the pledge, Go to

857
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 2: SUPPORTIFCJ dot org. That is support IFCJ dot org to

858
00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 2: take a stand today. Help the people in Israel again.

859
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 2: Sign the pledge and stand with our brothers and sisters

860
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 2: in Israel. Go to support if CJ dot org. That's

861
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: support if CJ dot org to take a stand today.

862
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: Send her final question for you, and this goes back

863
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: to the last podcast. You were conflicted on what Trump's

864
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 2: plan should be Next. Do you go to the Supreme Court?

865
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 2: Do you try to get there quickly? Or is there

866
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 2: a way to force this case moving forward? Now knowing

867
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: the jury instructions and what they were given and most importantly,

868
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 2: what they had admitted from them, does this open up

869
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 2: any different legal pathway for the Trump team to say, Okay,

870
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 2: we need to get this scene even quicker. So it

871
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 2: isn't Hey, we got what we wanted. We get to

872
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: say you're a convicted felon all the way through election day.

873
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:37,760
Speaker 2: Can this speed up the process?

874
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 1: Or no?

875
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,279
Speaker 3: So let me answer that. But let me answer that

876
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 3: in connection to a question that people ask quite a bit,

877
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 3: which is what's the sentence going to be? We've got

878
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 3: the sentence, we know that is just a few days

879
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 3: before the Republican Convention, and a lot of folks are asking,

880
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 3: is the judge going to sentence Trump to jail time?

881
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 3: I think there's a very real chance the judge sentence

882
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 3: Trump to jail time. I think this is a vicious partisan.

883
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,080
Speaker 3: I think he hates Donald Trump. I think he's willing

884
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 3: to abuse his power. But I will wager large sums

885
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 3: of money regardless of what he sentences him to jail

886
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:14,040
Speaker 3: time or something else, that if there is incarceration, he

887
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 3: will suspend it pending appeal. I think that I could

888
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 3: see the judge at sentencing saying I sentence you to

889
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: four years in jail or no, No, I don't think

890
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 3: he would. I do think you've got four years for

891
00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 3: each of these thirty four counts. Is the maximum amount

892
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: typically they would run concurrently, which means they would all

893
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 3: run at the same time. You could run him consecutively,

894
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 3: which is how you get over one hundred years in

895
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 3: any ordinary circumstance. Number One, a judge of Trump's age

896
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 3: that does not have any prior offenses in New York

897
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 3: would never serve a day of jail time in any

898
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 3: other case. I mean, look, you can physically assault someone,

899
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: you can repeatedly violently beat people up, you can engage

900
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,799
Speaker 3: in all sorts of crimes and not serve jail time

901
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,120
Speaker 3: in New York. That being said, I think it's that's

902
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: entirely possible. This judge is enough of a partisan to say,

903
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: you're the president, what you did mattered, I'm sentencing you

904
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: to four years in jail. I could see him. He

905
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,080
Speaker 3: would love that. That would be the crowning moment of

906
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 3: his life to utter those words.

907
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 2: It also be useful politically, because then not only can

908
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: you say he's convicted felon, but then you say, do

909
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 2: you want a guy going to the White House, it's

910
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: about to go to jail.

911
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

912
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 3: So what I do not think he will do is

913
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 3: sentenced him to jail and say take him into custody.

914
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 3: And put him there right now. He could, but I

915
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,480
Speaker 3: think if he did that, it would prompt an immediate

916
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 3: emergency appeal and he would get reversed. I assume this

917
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,920
Speaker 3: guy is smart enough to know that he doesn't want

918
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:47,480
Speaker 3: to get reversed, and he especially does not want to

919
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 3: get reversed before election day. He's engaged in politics, so

920
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,439
Speaker 3: he's not going to do something I think that will

921
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 3: prompt an immediate reversal because that undermines the political value

922
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 3: of the charai that he's conducting. So if the sentences

923
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,359
Speaker 3: in prisonment or it could be home confinement. If the

924
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 3: sentence is something like that, I think he'll suspend it

925
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 3: pending the resolution of the appeal. In that case, I

926
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 3: think the odds are quite high. This appeal will have

927
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,239
Speaker 3: to go through the New York state system. First. We

928
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,320
Speaker 3: talked about in Friday's pod, and by the way, you

929
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 3: should go back and listen to Friday's pod. We did

930
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 3: Friday's pod late Thursday night. We did it on the

931
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,000
Speaker 3: road as I was driving from Dallas to Houston. It

932
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 3: was right after the verdict came down, and it was

933
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 3: analyzing the next steps and in much greater detail than

934
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 3: we have in this pod, and so you ought to

935
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 3: listen to the two pods together. But the ordinary course

936
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 3: of appeal would be to appeal from the trial court

937
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 3: to the intermediate appellate court in New York in the

938
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 3: state court system, and then if you lose in the

939
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 3: intermediate appellate court, to appeal to the top appellate court

940
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,280
Speaker 3: in New York called the New York Court of Appeals.

941
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,879
Speaker 3: And then finally, if you lose there, then you could

942
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 3: appeal to the U. S. Supreme Court. That's normally how

943
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,759
Speaker 3: a criminal case would proceed. It is possible you can

944
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 3: file an extraordinary writ to ask the US Supreme Court

945
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 3: to intervene right now, but it is very very very rare.

946
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 3: There is a chance, and I'm sure the Trump legal

947
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 3: team is debating this right now. There's a chance the

948
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 3: court would say yes. But I think it's probably unlikely.

949
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 3: I think the court's instinct, particularly if a sentence is suspended,

950
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 3: if the judge order Trump put in jail, the Supreme

951
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:38,600
Speaker 3: Court would say yes. It would force the court to

952
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 3: say yes. So if the sentence is suspended and Trump

953
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 3: is free to campaign, fore to debate, for you to

954
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 3: go to the convention, I think the justice's instincts will

955
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,400
Speaker 3: be you know what, The New York state courts might

956
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 3: correct this. The Court of Appeals might reverse this, The

957
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 3: Intermediate Court of Appeals might reverse this. They might get

958
00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:00,440
Speaker 3: it right. And there's a long ethos that the Court,

959
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 3: which is, if we don't need to act, we don't

960
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 3: need to act. If someone else can fix this, if

961
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,480
Speaker 3: another level of the justice system can fix this, the

962
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 3: US Supreme Court doesn't need to step in. That's their

963
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 3: general approach. If they were to deny the extraordinary writ

964
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,240
Speaker 3: I suspect you would have some justices right and say

965
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 3: something like there are lots of reasons to be concerned here,

966
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 3: but right now the sentence is suspended. The verdicts can

967
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,720
Speaker 3: be overturned on appeal, and so will allow the state

968
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 3: proceedings to go forward. If there was an order of

969
00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 3: immediate incarceration, it would force their hands. I think the

970
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,280
Speaker 3: whole game here from the DA and from the judge

971
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 3: is the political advantage not actually sending Trump to jail.

972
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 3: They know these jury instructions will never survive an appeal.

973
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 3: If you had anything resembling fairness in the judicial system,

974
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,000
Speaker 3: the New York Court's Appeals should reverse it. I got

975
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,439
Speaker 3: to say, based on the absolute disgrace we just saw

976
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:04,359
Speaker 3: play out, I have no confidence of that. The New

977
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:09,280
Speaker 3: York justice system is I suspect forever a global laughing stock.

978
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 3: And you put this on top of the prior civil

979
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 3: case where they took a half billion dollars that they're

980
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 3: trying to take a half billion dollars from Trump. The combination.

981
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 3: The message New York has said is if we don't

982
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,800
Speaker 3: like you, if you are politically disfavored, welcome to communist Cuba.

983
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 3: We will treat you the same and you have the

984
00:54:25,719 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 3: same rights as you would have locked into Gulac.

985
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 2: This is gonna be interesting that it plays out. It's

986
00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 2: gonna be interesting to see what the poll numbers say

987
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 2: this week. We're gonna cover it all. Don't forget we

988
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 2: did this show Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Hit that subscribe or

989
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: auto download button, and on those in between days there's

990
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,640
Speaker 2: a lot of breaking news. Grab my podcast as well,

991
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:45,920
Speaker 2: the Ben Ferguson podcasts, and I will keep you up

992
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,399
Speaker 2: to date on those in between days. Make sure if

993
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: you didn't get to watch this on YouTube, watch it

994
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:52,800
Speaker 2: on YouTube. You'll get to see those clips and this

995
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,480
Speaker 2: famous smirk of Joe Biden and the Senate, and I

996
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 2: will see you back here in a couple of days.