1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Masters in 2 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio. 3 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 2: On the latest Masters in Business podcasts. My conversation with 4 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 2: Kate Burke. She's CEO of Allspring Global Investments, helping to 5 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 2: run about six hundred and thirty five billion dollars in 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,319 Speaker 2: client assets. She has a fascinating background. She's held all 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: sorts of roles CEO, COO, CFO, Chief Talent officer both 8 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 2: at Alliance Bernstein and Allspring. I thought this conversation was fascinating, 9 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 2: and I think you will also with no further ado. 10 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 2: My interview with Kate Burke of all Spring Global. Kate Burke, 11 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 2: Welcome to Bloomberg Ary. 12 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 2: So we're gonna get to all of your various titles, 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: many of which I I'm fascinated by. But I have 15 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: to start with your background. So you study economics at 16 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: holy Cross before getting your MBA at Kellogg. What was 17 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: the career plan? Was it always investing in finance? 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 4: No, I had an idea it might be financed. But 19 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 4: I grew up in Rochester, Minnesota. It was a town 20 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 4: of eighty thousand. It's probably about one hundred and twenty. 21 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 4: Now largely the male Clinic is there and IBM is there, 22 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 4: and so there wasn't a lot of financial acumen that 23 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 4: it was easily available to me. It just wasn't a 24 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 4: career that really had presented itself. But I was interested 25 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 4: in investing. I'm one of five kids. My dad was 26 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 4: trying and mom were trying to save to help us 27 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 4: pay for college. 28 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 3: And my dad. 29 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 4: Would talk me through the decisions he was making, even 30 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 4: though he was a self taught investor as well, And 31 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 4: that was really the first interest I had. My first job, 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 4: one of my first jobs, was actually being a teller 33 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 4: at a bank, because I thought, this is how I'm 34 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 4: going to learn about banking. 35 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: Really as a teller didn't know. 36 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 4: That's how little I knew at that, you know, when 37 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 4: I'm eighteen years old, there was very little. You don't 38 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 4: have all the information you have today available. We don't 39 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 4: have the Internet. I had the Wall Street Journal that 40 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 4: I could that my dad got that I could read, 41 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 4: and that was really it. 42 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 3: And so I thought, well, how. 43 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,400 Speaker 4: If I'm going to get into banking, I might as 44 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 4: well go be a teller at a bank. That was 45 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 4: obviously not the longer term career path I chose, but 46 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 4: it showed an early interest in finance. 47 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: So what was it. Was it your father that sparked 48 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 2: the interest in investing or was it school what led 49 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 2: you to say, hey, this is a legitimate career option 50 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 2: for me. 51 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 4: I think it was a little bit of It started 52 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 4: with my dad, and then economics. 53 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,800 Speaker 3: Holy Cross is a liberal arts college. 54 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 4: I had originally thought I was going to go to 55 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 4: a university with a business program, so I knew I 56 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 4: wanted to do business. I fell in love with holy Cross. 57 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 4: Economics was the closest major you could have as a 58 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 4: liberal arts college, so I pursued that, and then it was. 59 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 3: My first job out of college. 60 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 4: I actually worked for a not for profit called Americas 61 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 4: and then was looking to get a job in finance 62 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 4: because I was very close to New York City but 63 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 4: not in New York City, and started networking with people 64 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 4: to try to learn more about jobs and finance because 65 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 4: I certainly had friends who had moved into it. But 66 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 4: I ultimately went and worked at Tommy Hilferger instead, and 67 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 4: so I went, but that's where I really got interested 68 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 4: in it, because I did invest sir. 69 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: Really that was in between college and MBA, Yes I went. 70 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: And what was the first job right out of business school? 71 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 4: I was management consulting at at Carney, So that exposed me. 72 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 4: I call that my finishing school. You know, you go 73 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 4: to business school, you learn a lot of theory. By 74 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 4: doing consulting, you learn a lot of more practical application 75 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 4: and it really I still love a lot of the 76 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 4: things I learned in consulting about how do you go 77 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 4: into something that you don't fully know, ask a lot 78 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 4: of questions, learn how do you structure a problem and 79 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 4: then how do you break down the work to make 80 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 4: forward progress? And being able to do that critical thinking 81 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 4: and that strategic planning I think has helped me throughout 82 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 4: my career. 83 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 2: So Tommy Hill Figure consulting, Tommy Hill Figure, how did 84 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 2: you end up at Alliance Barnstein? 85 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 4: So I was doing so it was Tommy Hill Figure 86 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 4: business School, then consulting, and at Tommy Hillfiger I did 87 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 4: investor relations. So I was the only person in a 88 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 4: suit compared to all the other twenty year olds like 89 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 4: skateboarding down the hall. So it was very fun in 90 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 4: my twenties to be working there. But after business school 91 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 4: was doing consulting, we were living. I had gotten married, 92 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 4: we were living in Ohio, and we really. 93 00:04:58,600 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: Wanted to be in New York City. 94 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 4: I had already lived here once, my husband had not, 95 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 4: And when we moved back to New York and I 96 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 4: was doing consulting, I just I couldn't be in New 97 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 4: York City, in the hub of finance and not be 98 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 4: in finance. And so using again networking, came across Bernstein 99 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 4: Research and said this is. 100 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 3: The place I'm going to work. I just absolutely loved it. 101 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 2: They've had a great reputation for decades. You've had a 102 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: number of roles there, everything from you know, across your career, 103 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: chief operating officer, chief financial officer. Tell us about chief 104 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 2: talent officer. What does that involve? 105 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 3: So chief talent officer. 106 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 4: I had moved out of sales and sales management into 107 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 4: the head of Human Capital, which is head of HR 108 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 4: human resources, and as part of that, your role is 109 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 4: chief Talent officer, which an asset manager when all that 110 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 4: you have is your talent. Is an incredibly critical job 111 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 4: and what that really is about is how do you 112 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 4: create better teams? How do you find talent, nurture talent, 113 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 4: build talent, how do you help collaboration across silos in 114 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 4: the organization, how do you build performance management systems. All 115 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,799 Speaker 4: of those things come in to how do you build 116 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 4: the best talent? And it was a fantastic role for me, 117 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 4: one that I was worried originally about taking moving from 118 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 4: a producer, a sales producer into a corporate function. I 119 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 4: didn't say yes right away when they offered it to 120 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 4: me because I was I thought of myself my you know, 121 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 4: I thought of myself as a revenue generator. And moving 122 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 4: into that role was the best decision I made because 123 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 4: it moved me one of my comfort zone. I was 124 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 4: working with a group of people within the talent organization 125 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 4: who were deep practitioners of human capital kinds of practices, 126 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 4: who had studied this. They were passionate about it, and 127 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 4: I came in with a business acumen and I had 128 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 4: to very quickly learn to work with them and find 129 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 4: a way to create value with people who questioned a 130 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 4: little bit about why I was the boss. 131 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 3: Wasn't the first time that had happened to me, really. 132 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 4: And so moved into that role and really embraced it. 133 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 4: And I came up with you return on invested capital. 134 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 4: I came up with a phrase return on invested time. 135 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 4: So anytime you ask anyone inside the organization to do something, 136 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 4: you were asking them to invest their time, so you 137 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 4: better have a return on it. And so it stopped 138 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 4: us from chasing things that maybe academically interesting or fads, 139 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 4: but really focused on the individuals inside Alliance Spernstein, and 140 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 4: how could we help use their time wisely to develop 141 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 4: themselves and to build a great firm. 142 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: I'm kind of fascinated by the reluctance to go from 143 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 2: something that is measured in very specific can be easily quantified. 144 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 2: Here's how much assets we generated, here's the revenue that 145 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 2: came in off of those. As either a producer or 146 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 2: managing a producer, chief talent officer, where you're responsible for 147 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: attracting talent and then retaining talent, it's a little squishier. 148 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: How can you tell and more importantly, how can senior 149 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: management tell how effectively you're doing that job? 150 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 4: So there are metrics still, you look at things like 151 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:52,079 Speaker 4: your retention promotions, if you have a voluntary or involuntary turnover, 152 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 4: as ways of having some measurement of it. You also 153 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 4: do cultural surveys, so you will ask the employee population 154 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 4: a set of questions. There's firms that do this so 155 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 4: you can compare yourself not only a year over year, 156 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 4: but also to your peers in the industry to get 157 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: a sense of is it a place where talent wants 158 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 4: to stay? So retention is probably the number one stat 159 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 4: that you have. But the other part is are you 160 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 4: a good partner to the other leaders in the organization 161 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 4: and are you gaining their trust? Are you helping work 162 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 4: through their talent issues. The number one lesson I took 163 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,440 Speaker 4: away is that there are many many ways to be 164 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 4: a successful leader and to build a good team, But 165 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 4: the number one thing that you have to do is you, 166 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 4: as a leader have to be the chameleon to your 167 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 4: team that you should be adjusting your management style to 168 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 4: bring out the best of the individual and to give 169 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 4: them feedback and to help them versus expecting that individual 170 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 4: dual to mirror you. 171 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 3: And that was. 172 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 4: Really powerful because I think it creates this opportunity for 173 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 4: you to bring together a really diverse group of talent 174 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 4: where they have permission to leverage their strengths. And then 175 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 4: my goal is always to build scaffolding around them and 176 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 4: to ensure that the overall dynamic of the team that 177 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 4: you cover the basis of everything you need and helping 178 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 4: leaders see who on their teams were really analytical versus 179 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 4: who were more of the culture and people carrier versus 180 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 4: who really partnered well with others, and do you have 181 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,000 Speaker 4: that representation on your team so that you can do 182 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: more together versus having five people on a team or 183 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 4: ten people on a team who are all carbon copies 184 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 4: of themselves. 185 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 3: That tends to lead to more siloed thinking. 186 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 4: So it was really fun and I got to work 187 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 4: with really smart, great leaders and manager is across the 188 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 4: organization to learn many of those skills. 189 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 2: It sounds like chief Talent Officer was a natural bridge 190 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 2: to chief executive officer. 191 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 4: Yes, I did not think that at the time, but 192 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 4: when I reflect on my career, it was the best 193 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 4: job for me to have taken, and it for all 194 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 4: the reasons I've already stated in terms of how you 195 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 4: engage with talent and learning how to build teams, but 196 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 4: also it gave me the opportunity to have a seat 197 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 4: at the table with the rest of the senior leadership 198 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 4: team and talk strategy and understand how we were building 199 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 4: the business. 200 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 3: And it was a great training ground. I had been 201 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 3: in the role. 202 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 4: About a year maybe to maybe two when we had 203 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 4: a CEO transition. There's a lot of pressure on the 204 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 4: head of human capital to partner with the CEO to 205 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 4: make sure they're successful for sure. And so that gave 206 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 4: me the opportunity to work closely with Seth Bernstein, who's 207 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 4: the current CEO of Alliance Spernstein. 208 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 3: And he is the one who. 209 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 4: Then also afforded me a lot of other opportunities over 210 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 4: time to take on other roles because I became a 211 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 4: trusted partner to him. 212 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 2: Huh really really interesting. And then how did you end 213 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: up moving from Alliance Bernstein to all Spring? 214 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 4: I was very happy at Alliance Spernstein I had. I 215 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 4: was the CFO and COO at that time. 216 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 2: You were there for almost two decades, Yes. 217 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 4: And and and I said, had a number of great roles, 218 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 4: and they really helped build out who I am as 219 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 4: a person and as a as a leader today. 220 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:44,439 Speaker 3: And it's a great firm. 221 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 4: I have a lot of admirations still for everyone who 222 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 4: works there. 223 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 3: So I wasn't looking. 224 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 4: I followed the path of having a headhunter call, of 225 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 4: which I first said no, I was not interested in 226 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 4: suing the conversation, not because anything about all Spring, but 227 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 4: just because I was happy with where I was. 228 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 3: And then. 229 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 4: He said, well, why don't you just look into it 230 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 4: a little bit, read a little bit, maybe me, maybe 231 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 4: me with someone so very effective headhunter. 232 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 3: In that regard. 233 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 4: And as that conversation started to unfold, I got really 234 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 4: excited about Allspring because I could see all of the 235 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 4: potential that was there. 236 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 3: For those of you who. 237 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 4: Don't know Allspring, and many people still don't, our brand 238 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 4: is only four years old, but we have six hundred 239 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:44,280 Speaker 4: and thirty five billion of assets under management, four hundred 240 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 4: and fifty of which are fixed income, and nobody knows 241 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 4: we're one of the larger fixed income players out there. 242 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 4: Because so there was so much potential in such a 243 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 4: rich history of invest teams. It was a multi boutique model. 244 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 4: It was it was Wells Fargo Asset Management that they 245 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 4: were selling, and they had sold, and it was about 246 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 4: two years into its transition, and there was still a 247 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 4: lot of work both to do on the transition. 248 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 3: Out of Wells Fargo, so all of the. 249 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 4: TSA, getting out of all of the transaction servicing agreements, 250 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 4: we were still they were still in the midst of that, 251 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 4: they were thinking about the evolution of the investment platform, 252 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:32,440 Speaker 4: rebuilding out distribution, and I thought, I've done a lot 253 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 4: of this, so I can be really I can really 254 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 4: create a lot of value by going here and working 255 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 4: with such a great leadership team that was already in 256 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 4: place and with so much potential that I just got 257 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 4: really excited about it. 258 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 2: Really really fascinating. So before we get to all Spring, 259 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 2: let let's talk a little bit about AB for a minute. 260 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 2: I know a lot of people who either work there 261 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: or used to work there. The firm has evolved over 262 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:08,880 Speaker 2: the years. What's the current relationship with Is there a 263 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: parent company now? Wasn't there Anstein? Yeah? Who's the equitable? 264 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 2: Equitable is now is now which is really right down 265 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 2: the street from them, which is kind of ironic, down 266 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 2: seventh Avenue from where the HQ used to be. 267 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 4: So what's interesting is Equitable is now in Alliance Bernstein's 268 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 4: old offices at thirteen forty five, and Alliance Spernstein has 269 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 4: actually moved down to Hudson Yards. 270 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 2: Which is really a fascinating place as well. Coming up, 271 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: we continue our conversation with Kate Burke, CEO of all 272 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 2: Spring Global Investment discussing what it's been like working at 273 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: both Alliance Bernstein and all Spring Global. I'm Barry Ritholts. 274 00:15:49,200 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 2: You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. I'm 275 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 2: Barry Ridholts. You're listening to Masters in Business on Bloomberg Radio. 276 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 2: My extra special guest today is Kate Burke. She's CEO 277 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: of Allspring Global. The firm manages or advises on six 278 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty five billion dollars in assets. Previously, she 279 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 2: was COO, CFO and head of Human Capital, Chief Talent 280 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: Officer at Alliance Bernstein. So you've had very distinct jobs 281 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 2: that I think of as so different. Chief Operations Officer 282 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 2: is very different than CFO, which is so different than CEO. 283 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: How do you shift from one major position to another 284 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: that it's a whole nut Like CFO is an entirely 285 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 2: different silo than CEO. 286 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 4: Yes, so each one of them teaches you different areas 287 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 4: of discipline or focus. But each time I have I've 288 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 4: taken on a new role, I start I've started to 289 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 4: establish a little bit of a playbook, which is, you know, 290 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 4: people talk about your first ninety days and there's truth 291 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,640 Speaker 4: to that. The number one thing that I do is 292 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 4: I go in and very quickly, and this goes back 293 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 4: to the story I was telling you about human resources. 294 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,959 Speaker 4: Is I recognize that oftentimes at the table, I'm going 295 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 4: to be the person with the least amount of subject 296 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 4: matter expertise on a topic, and rather than try to 297 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 4: fake it and act like I have all of the answers, 298 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 4: I use a lot of inquiry to ask questions and 299 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 4: to peel back the knowledge that they have to share 300 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:47,639 Speaker 4: with me and to invite that into the conversation. And 301 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 4: then I have the confidence that the other parts of 302 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 4: the organization I've seen that I've been a part of 303 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 4: have value to add to that analysis, and it becomes 304 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 4: really a conversation about where we're going, so that I'm 305 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 4: partnering with the people and that discipline to come up 306 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 4: with what the strategy and implementation plan is. And what 307 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 4: I think I'm good at is I'm good at focus 308 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 4: and execution. I say a lot at all Spring. There's 309 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 4: no shortage of good ideas. There's a shortage of great 310 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 4: execution because you can get you know. 311 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 3: I have an idea for a podcast. 312 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 4: No I don't, actually, but everybody has ideas, right, It's 313 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,719 Speaker 4: how do you get that idea into something that is 314 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 4: tangible that then you make that first step, you make 315 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 4: this second step and you get it off the ground, 316 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 4: and you create the momentum and then the willingness to 317 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 4: pivot or change direction based on the measurement of are 318 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 4: you making the progress the way you thought and constantly learning? 319 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 4: So I talk about growth mindset. How do you engage 320 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 4: in that? And I think that that's been what's allowed 321 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 4: me to be able to move into different roles. Is 322 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 4: I appreciate how good the people are that I'm working with. 323 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you also have to be a quick study. 324 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:14,000 Speaker 2: Because all right, so COO CFO very operationally focused. You 325 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 2: led bernstein private wealth not only for a couple of years, 326 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: but really challenging years right in the middle of the pandemic. 327 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 2: That's a completely different set of skills and set of 328 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 2: tasks to execute. Tell us a little bit about leading 329 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 2: Bernstein's private wealth. 330 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 4: So I do think that I'm a fairly quick study. 331 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 4: But I work really hard to be a quick study. 332 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 4: I put in a lot of I put in a 333 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 4: lot of time. 334 00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 2: Funny how that works. 335 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 4: I think it really does pay off. I really can 336 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 4: help pay off. So you know, with Bernstein Private Wealth. One. 337 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 4: It had helped that I'd been at the organization a 338 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 4: long time, so I obviously knew the strength of the brand, 339 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 4: of the proprietary nature of how they and vast for 340 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 4: individuals actually still a client of theirs, not surprisingly. 341 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 3: And I went in and in the end. 342 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 4: So one, it's about how do you how what it 343 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 4: was the Bernstein and philosophy about investing for wealthy individuals 344 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 4: and in recognizing the strength and the legacy the financial 345 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 4: advisors are very proud of that business, and so the 346 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 4: number one thing you have to recognize is don't mess 347 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 4: that up? Right, So how do you build on that 348 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 4: and try to protect that particularly during challenging times. Two, 349 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 4: it is all about the talent. So there's a consistent 350 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 4: theme there that it's all about the talent. It was 351 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 4: a strong leadership team, uh and my role was to 352 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:51,399 Speaker 4: come in and help study our business during a time 353 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 4: of a time of challenge, and to do that you 354 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 4: do get very focused on really on the client. It 355 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 4: was a wonderful reminder for me. I had been in 356 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 4: sales for a long time. It was my first job 357 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 4: back into a client facing role after I had moved 358 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 4: into HR, and I love the clients, and so being 359 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 4: able to talk with clients again helps give you a 360 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 4: lot of direction about the challenges our advisors are facing. 361 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 4: And my role was to be there for our advisors. 362 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 4: They give so much of themselves. Every financial advisor, regardless 363 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 4: of the firm you're working at, is investing their time 364 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 4: and energy into the success of other people. They need 365 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 4: someone to fill that bucket who's doing that for them? 366 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 4: And so my view in that role was, let me 367 00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 4: help fill that bucket. You're under so much pressure and 368 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 4: dress with your clients and helping them through challenging times. 369 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 4: How can I help support you in that? So? 370 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 2: Huh really really interesting? So now let's move forward. You 371 00:21:56,320 --> 00:22:00,120 Speaker 2: get recruited to Allspring as CEO. For people who are 372 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: not familiar with all Spring, tell us a little bit 373 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 2: about the firm, who the clients are, how they've managed 374 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 2: to accumulate over six hundred billion dollars. 375 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 4: Sure, So all Spring's history is is that it was 376 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 4: built under Wells Fargo asset management really as a multi 377 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 4: boutique model. So Wells Fargo had acquired brands like Montgomery, 378 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:32,080 Speaker 4: Strong Capital, Evergreen, and they had really functioned as you know, 379 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 4: sort of independent investment teams leveraging, then the distribution and operations. 380 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 4: The distribution was really twofold, and this is what we're 381 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 4: growing out, what we're leveraging to continue to grow, which 382 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 4: was one of strengthen retail because Wells Fargo Advisors is 383 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 4: our is our was our largest is our largest clients 384 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 4: still today UH and they were very focused on understanding 385 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 4: the needs of the advisor community. 386 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 3: And then too was an institutional business that was. 387 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 4: Largely in defined benefits and other types of institutional channels, 388 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 4: and so that history was there. 389 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 3: Equity is about. 390 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,119 Speaker 4: A third of about a fifth probably of the assets. 391 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 4: And then we have a liquidity business, a money markets 392 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 4: business that is incredibly strong, and then a fixed income 393 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 4: business that's really two pieces. One a fixed income platform 394 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 4: that has both credit all the way to high yield 395 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 4: sort of the entire curve. So my view is, if 396 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 4: you need a fixed income strategy in your portfolio, all 397 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 4: Spring should be one of them. And then on the 398 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 4: other side of it was a very strong brand Galleyard, 399 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 4: which was stable value and really used a lot in 400 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 4: defined benefit and contribution programs. And so we had all 401 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 4: of those pieces, but they had all operated independent fairly independently. 402 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:10,679 Speaker 4: And one what's really important for investment portfolio managers is 403 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 4: there autonomy to make investment decisions like that is what 404 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 4: we are. What people are buying from them is that 405 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 4: that the portfolio managers that they believe in and have 406 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 4: established the track record still have the autonomy to make 407 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 4: those choices. 408 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 3: And I believe that firmly. That is sacrasant. 409 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,360 Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean that they can't talk to each 410 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,240 Speaker 4: other and that you can't create an investment platform where 411 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,240 Speaker 4: you're leveraging the insights internally within all Spring to benefit 412 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 4: the totality of our clients and the totality of the 413 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:46,320 Speaker 4: investment decisions. And so that was one of the first 414 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 4: things I started working on with John Branco, our head 415 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 4: of our CIO and a head of investments, was we 416 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 4: have all of these amazing capabilities they've historically worked independently, 417 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 4: were now all under the all Spring brand, they're all 418 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 4: aligned with the success of all Spring as an organization. 419 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 3: Is there something we can do. 420 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 4: As we evolve the investment platform to create more leverage 421 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 4: across these teams And that's what that's the journey that 422 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 4: we've been on with the investment teams. 423 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 2: Really really interesting you mentioned the money market group is 424 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: separate from the fixed income group. Kind of think them 425 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:29,879 Speaker 2: as we. 426 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: Have we separate it out. Agree with you. 427 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,959 Speaker 4: So when I say we have over four hundred billion 428 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:39,160 Speaker 4: in assets under advisement in fixed income, I'm including liquidity 429 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 4: and that piece, so I do that is part of 430 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 4: the curve. But liquidity as is such an a strong 431 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 4: independent piece of that asset allocation for us that we 432 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 4: often call it out because it's it's been such a 433 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,440 Speaker 4: powerful and its particularly in a higher interest rate environment, 434 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 4: has had been a very strong source of flows and 435 00:25:58,960 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 4: growth for us. 436 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 2: We will what wire we over for four and a 437 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 2: half percent last summer and now we're back in the 438 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 2: high threes, like four and a half percent. People forget, 439 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: we spent twenty five years pretty much it nothing nothing, 440 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 2: So four and a half percent? Wait safe liquid? Wow? 441 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 3: Why would you not? Why would you not have it? 442 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 4: And you're seeing what's interesting is you know, even with 443 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 4: advisors or with clients, they'll they'll have money in a 444 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 4: deposit account earning very low interest, and then when they're putting, 445 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 4: they're trying to figure out how to put it into work. 446 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 4: The question of whether or not you want to put 447 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,879 Speaker 4: it into equities that this value right, these these valuations 448 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 4: right now, versus saying no, you can get a stable 449 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 4: return off of fixed income. Fixed income is out of 450 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 4: favor for a period of oh for a period of time. 451 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 4: I think we're back in the age of fixed income 452 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,880 Speaker 4: for for quite a while now, where bonds should really 453 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 4: are really well positioned to outperform and really in our 454 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 4: source of income, especially when you think of an aging 455 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 4: demographic who's looking for income, there's the stability and safety 456 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 4: of bonds that can provide you with those income. That income, 457 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 4: particularly they're active managed, so we can work through some 458 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 4: of the unknown challenges of our current economic environment. 459 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 2: It's so interesting as people are going to be hearing this, 460 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 2: it'll be around the time when lots and lots of 461 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 2: bonuses will be hitting people's personal accounts, which means lots 462 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 2: of people are going to be getting phone calls from 463 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 2: their bank saying, hey, I see there's a pile of 464 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 2: cash here, how would you like to use it? Right? 465 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 2: And I always say, well, half of that's going to 466 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,760 Speaker 2: Uncle Sam. Can what can you guarantee me that's safe? 467 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 2: And I mean guarantee And it's like, well, you know, 468 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: there are no guarantees. I'm like, all right, it's going 469 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 2: to it's going to go to the money market fund. 470 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: Even if it's three eight. That's better than some crazy 471 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: covered coal strategy that may or may not be there 472 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 2: for April fifteenth exactly. 473 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 4: So one, it's a safe it's certainly always a safe 474 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,479 Speaker 4: place in the short term to put your liquidity. And 475 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 4: then in the longer term, when you think about people's 476 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 4: wealth accumulation over time, in the very beginning, it is 477 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 4: simply about starting to grow wealth accumulating it. You're going 478 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 4: to be largely in equities and not to get that 479 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,200 Speaker 4: kind of equity return. And then you start to move 480 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,879 Speaker 4: into well, now I have to start planning for retirement, 481 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: So then preservation starts to become more important. You want 482 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,480 Speaker 4: to protect those assets, and that's when you see people 483 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 4: tend to move more into a more balanced portfolio. Well, 484 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 4: then they move into retirement and they need income and 485 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 4: they want that's where fixed income really can be very beneficial. 486 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,720 Speaker 4: Or we also have a number of equity income strategies 487 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 4: that put off a nice distribution, and that's where you 488 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 4: want to have an advisor or help you understand what 489 00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 4: is the income stream You need to live and pursue 490 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 4: the life you want in retirement. And then the last 491 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 4: age is legacy and what do you do as a 492 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 4: legacy planner and how do you again go back to 493 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 4: that preservation of those assets so that you can whether 494 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 4: it's your legacy is philanthropic or around your family. You know, 495 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 4: our view is we want to partner with the wealth 496 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 4: advisor along each parts of their client's journey and know 497 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 4: that they can turn to all Spring with the right 498 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 4: set of public market products that are beneficial to those clients. 499 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: So you're discussing a lot of relationships, it sounds like 500 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 2: with ria's registered investment advisors. Tell us a little bit 501 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 2: about the relationship you have with RIA. So are they 502 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 2: primarily at Wells Fargo? Are they everywhere? Give us a 503 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 2: little bit of insight into how Wells how Allspring operates. 504 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 4: So all Spring has a very strong relationship with the 505 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 4: Wells Fargo advisors still and we've been able to grow 506 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,080 Speaker 4: that relationship even post separation, which I think people were 507 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 4: concerned about whether that continuity would would continue or would 508 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 4: would that cost some friction. Instead, they're a tremendous partner 509 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 4: and we can work with them to help Wells fargo 510 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 4: advisors achieve their agendas with their financial advisors. The same, though, 511 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 4: is true for other intermediaries Morgan Stanley, Maryland Raymond James. 512 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 4: These are all other intermediary platforms that have some Allspring product. 513 00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,440 Speaker 3: We're looking to continue to place more. 514 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 4: And then we have the RIA channel, which, as you know, 515 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 4: is going through a tremendous amount of change and an investment. 516 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:57,480 Speaker 4: You're seeing consolidation, You're seeing aggregators of rias out there. 517 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 4: You're seeing tamps platforms that are providing a lot of 518 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,560 Speaker 4: the turnkey estimate thank you, that are providing a lot 519 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 4: of the infrastructure and technology and operations that advisors need. 520 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 4: And we're able to partner with each part of that 521 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 4: ecosystem all the way to the independent ri A who's 522 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 4: hung their shingle and built a great business. So one 523 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 4: of the investments we made in the last year was 524 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 4: really building out an RIA sales organization, recognizing that it's 525 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 4: similar to intermediary but as those rias are growing and 526 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 4: getting more sophisticated, having support of that growth with them 527 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 4: and being able to help bridge like this is what 528 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 4: other sophisticated, larger aggregators are doing. How can we help 529 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 4: partner with you to build and protect that business has 530 00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 4: been a real focus of ours and that's where we 531 00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 4: have a number of our remis or tax managed SMA 532 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 4: platforms managed account platform that is really I think powerful 533 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 4: when you're working with rias and those individual investors. 534 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,840 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about what's going on 535 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 2: with the market today. By the time people hear this, 536 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: it's twenty twenty six. What is going on that's different 537 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 2: now for institutional and wealth clients that perhaps is different 538 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: than what they were looking at five or ten years ago. 539 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 4: So I think one of the things we're focused on 540 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 4: right now is there is from the curve perspective, you know, 541 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 4: this question of whether we're entering into stagflation where you're 542 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:50,200 Speaker 4: seeing lower growth, still inflation, high interest rates that will 543 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 4: be coming down. Is where do you position yourself along 544 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,239 Speaker 4: that curve? And rather than have it just be a 545 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 4: long duration play, we think that investors really need to 546 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 4: be looking at how do they take advantage of both 547 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 4: the change in the curve. We expect the curve to 548 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 4: steep in, the long end of the curve to steep in, 549 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 4: particularly as central banks are figuring out how to balance 550 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 4: the inflation at and lower interest rates to try to 551 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 4: protect growth. You also have heavy debt servicing loads. So 552 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 4: while all of them are perfectly solvent and can of 553 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 4: developed company and manage that, they care about those interest costs. 554 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 3: It's a big part of. 555 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 4: Any any government's budget, and it's a growing part, and 556 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 4: I think that that changes some of the behavior of 557 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 4: the curve in the long run, where we would expect 558 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 4: that that longer and tail of it to continue to 559 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 4: go higher. So playing that intermediate part of the curve, 560 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 4: we think is going to be really important, and you're 561 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 4: going to want high quality credit driven companies to do that, 562 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 4: So credit research is really going to matter more versus 563 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 4: just playing the duration play. 564 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: Coming up, we continue our conversation with Kate Burke, CEO 565 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 2: of all Spring Global Investing, discussing the state of investing markets. Today. 566 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 2: I'm Barry Ritolts. You're listening to Masters in Business on 567 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 2: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Barry Riddolts. You're listening to Masters in 568 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 2: Business on Bloomberg Radio. My extra special guest this week 569 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 2: is Kate Burke. She is CEO of all Spring Global Investments, 570 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: helping to manage about six hundred and thirty five billion 571 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 2: dollars in client assets. Previously, she ran multiple divisions at 572 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:01,480 Speaker 2: Alliance Bernstein, including as CFO, COO and head of the 573 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,080 Speaker 2: Private Wealth group. So when we look at active management 574 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 2: in equities, it's kind of falling out of favor. They 575 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: don't help themselves by pretty regularly underperforming. Half each year, 576 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 2: half of the active fund managers underperform the benchmark, and 577 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 2: if you go out to five or ten years, it's 578 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 2: much worse. But we really don't see the same sort 579 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 2: of performance in bonds. It seems that active bond managers 580 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 2: really bring a lot of dare I say alpha to 581 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 2: the table, yes, tell us a little bit about the 582 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 2: active side of bond management at all Spring. 583 00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,560 Speaker 4: So at all Spring, over ninety percent of our fixed 584 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,920 Speaker 4: active fixed income outperform on a three, five and ten 585 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,360 Speaker 4: year basis. So active management really matters in fixed income, 586 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,280 Speaker 4: and I'm happy to go back to why I believe 587 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 4: it in equities as well, but focusing on fixed income 588 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 4: for a moment. I think part of the strength of 589 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 4: the Allspring platform is the deep credit research that we do, 590 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 4: and that means understanding the specific issuances and the companies 591 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,840 Speaker 4: that are doing it so that you're making the right choices, 592 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 4: and we do run the risk of and you see 593 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,160 Speaker 4: a little bit of this in some of the private markets. 594 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:23,319 Speaker 4: This question of credit and the strength of the underlying businesses. 595 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 4: If we have challenges in the economy, that's where it 596 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:29,440 Speaker 4: comes out, and so making those strong. Having a strong 597 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 4: view on quality credit, we think is really important because 598 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 4: it allows you to do two things. One, we talk 599 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,040 Speaker 4: about income. We think you're going to get most of 600 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 4: the return is going to come out of yield, So 601 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,080 Speaker 4: searching for that income, being able to harvest that income 602 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,359 Speaker 4: is really important. And why we like the intermediate part 603 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,160 Speaker 4: of the curve is the duration play. So still being 604 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 4: nimble enough to adjust to a changing rate environment, either 605 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,440 Speaker 4: led by the central banks or driven by inflation. How 606 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 4: do you position yourself along that that part of the 607 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 4: curve to be able to capitalize on that return. 608 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,760 Speaker 2: What are you guys seeing on the private all side, 609 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 2: private debt, private equity, private credit. There has been a 610 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 2: land rush to that space. I get the sense that 611 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,560 Speaker 2: Olspring has become a little skeptical about that area. 612 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 4: Look, I private credit is a perfectly good asset class, 613 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,920 Speaker 4: and it creates a lot of value, certainly for the economy. 614 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 3: It was it was. 615 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,960 Speaker 4: It grew out of the need of the banks pulling 616 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 4: back on their ability to to to make those loans. 617 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:36,600 Speaker 3: But it has gotten to be a crowded space. 618 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 4: You have you have a number of new players that 619 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 4: have ented into the private credit market. Uh, if you 620 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 4: look at future returns, what happens with basic laws supply 621 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 4: and demand, you have a lot more people supplying liquidity 622 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 4: to that part of the of the private credit market 623 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 4: wanting to make those loans. Means those spreads are likely 624 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,759 Speaker 4: to come down. They're going to be competing. Origination is 625 00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 4: really going to matter in that space, and so I 626 00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:04,839 Speaker 4: think we're going to see, similar to asset managers, those 627 00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 4: who are really good at it and those who end 628 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 4: up not being as well positioned for it. So who 629 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 4: you own there and who you partner are there, I 630 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 4: think is really important. We're choosing despite many of our 631 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 4: similar size peers seeking out either through acquisition of or 632 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 4: partnership with private credit firms. I'll never say never. There 633 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 4: could be a partnership with someone that creates a really 634 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:36,400 Speaker 4: interesting strategy that's specific for the client. But you're seeing 635 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 4: I think some challenges even with what's happened so far, 636 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 4: where people don't understand the product, they don't understand the liquidity, 637 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 4: they don't understand the fee structure, and so that's a 638 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 4: lot of time you have to be spending with those 639 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:51,719 Speaker 4: advisors trying to educate them and convince them that that's 640 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 4: the right decision to be making, versus saying. 641 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,880 Speaker 3: No, buy or sleeve of. 642 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 4: You know, the public liquid fixed income products and then 643 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 4: buy your sleeve of private credit with whoever you chose. 644 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,360 Speaker 4: Seems to me to be one of the paths that 645 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:11,560 Speaker 4: people may pursue. 646 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 2: I'm always surprised when people talk about not understanding the liquidity. 647 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 2: Just go back a couple of years ago to be 648 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 2: credit at Blackstone, where a bunch of advisors tried to 649 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,680 Speaker 2: head for the exits before the year end marks happened. Hey, 650 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 2: which part of locked up for five years is confusing? 651 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:35,759 Speaker 2: In year two, it's you've got three see you in 652 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:37,240 Speaker 2: twenty twenty nine. 653 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 4: So it's it's it's like it requires a sophisticated investor 654 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,840 Speaker 4: to understand how you're laddering into ill liquid assets. 655 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:49,239 Speaker 2: And that's sophisticated. Right, seven year lockup is seven so 656 00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,800 Speaker 2: I get my money back in year two. No seven 657 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 2: year lockup, And yet people seem to not really take 658 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:57,800 Speaker 2: take it very seriously. 659 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 4: So that's why we are staying in the public side. 660 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:07,040 Speaker 4: We think liquidity is really important and provides an important 661 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 4: part of your asset allocation. I'm not arguing against clients 662 00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 4: having a piece of alternatives in their portfolio, but understanding 663 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 4: the structure of what that alternatives makeup is, whether it's 664 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:24,439 Speaker 4: private equity, private credit, real estate. Understanding those terms, understanding 665 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 4: how that access, and your comfort level that in times 666 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 4: of illuquidity, your asset allocation may be much higher to 667 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 4: those asset classes than you were originally intended because you're 668 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,200 Speaker 4: going to have to use your liquid assets in a 669 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 4: way that you had not originally planned. And that creates 670 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:50,120 Speaker 4: the danger that an individual investor in particular has in 671 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,200 Speaker 4: thinking about how they're adding that into their investment. 672 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 3: Portfolio. 673 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 4: And that's where a really good advisor is going to 674 00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 4: be helpful. But they are also all in their own 675 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 4: education of this now, and so who each advisors talk 676 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 4: about how much they're needing to learn about private credit, 677 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 4: about tax loss management like that. We're asking more and 678 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 4: more out of these advisors. So we think you can 679 00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,759 Speaker 4: still get a really good risk adjusted return by a 680 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,319 Speaker 4: pretty traditional portfolio in the long run, and if you 681 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 4: look at what the SMP five hundred has done for 682 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 4: the last. 683 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 3: Thirty forty years, not too shabby. 684 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 4: And if you invest in that in the long run 685 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 4: and have enough liquidity to live through the downturns and 686 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 4: leave those in place, that has proven to be a 687 00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,920 Speaker 4: winning strategy for a very long time. 688 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 2: And we're just if you look at rolling fifteen year periods, 689 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 2: we just finished one of the best fifteen year periods 690 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,959 Speaker 2: in history. People forget what it's like when everything hits 691 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,280 Speaker 2: the fan and liquidity is really valuable. 692 00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm just not sure what we're trying to solve 693 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 4: for for the client and saying that they need to 694 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,320 Speaker 4: have a significant allocation. 695 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,759 Speaker 2: So you're not in the thirty forty fifty percent illiquid 696 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:05,960 Speaker 2: alts camp at all. 697 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 4: No, definitely, definitely not personally and definitely not what I 698 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 4: would be recommending others to do unless you're at the 699 00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,720 Speaker 4: really ultra high net worth part of the curve where 700 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 4: you have plenty of liquidity and that thirty percent because 701 00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 4: you just have so much in that account of such 702 00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,400 Speaker 4: a right so that but for many people that's not 703 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 4: their reality, and so I think we have. 704 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,680 Speaker 3: To be appropriately. 705 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 4: Cautious. We want more people investing for their future. I 706 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 4: do think it's an incredible you know that generating creating 707 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,320 Speaker 4: wealth for yourself, you know, outside of my Suth Burnstein 708 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,160 Speaker 4: used to say this, outside of your your your doctor, 709 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:52,000 Speaker 4: your financial advisor is probably the next most important person 710 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 4: in your overall well being outside of obviously your family, 711 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 4: like in terms of the professional advice that you're getting. 712 00:42:58,400 --> 00:43:01,440 Speaker 4: And and I think that that's really important to understand 713 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,600 Speaker 4: that there's so many different individuals. That's why I believe 714 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 4: in customization at scale in the long run, is that 715 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:11,920 Speaker 4: every individual target dates work for retirement when you have 716 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 4: similar people collected together to make a target date decision. 717 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,319 Speaker 4: But the diversification is not just the year you were 718 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,879 Speaker 4: planning on retiring, it's well, what are the assets you have, 719 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 4: how big is your family? What are your other needs 720 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 4: that you need to be planning for? So how do 721 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,279 Speaker 4: you start to create customized solutions for the individual investor 722 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:40,160 Speaker 4: and help the financial advisor create those individual solutions at scale? 723 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,080 Speaker 4: I think it's going to be the next wave in 724 00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 4: wealth management. 725 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 2: So you're what I'm hearing is if you're an aspirational investor, 726 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,120 Speaker 2: if you're a high net worth investor, if you're a 727 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,280 Speaker 2: family office, or if you're an institution and downman foundation, 728 00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 2: those are very distinct needs and you should have very 729 00:43:56,760 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 2: distinct solutions to your problems. 730 00:43:59,040 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 3: Correct. 731 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 2: Really interesting. I only have you for a few more minutes. 732 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,840 Speaker 2: I want to get to some other questions before we 733 00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 2: run out of time. I love your quote, what does 734 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 2: it mean quote being the easiest asset manager to work with? 735 00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 2: What does that mean in practice? And how are you 736 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 2: driving that philosophy? 737 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 4: So think about who you have loyalty to do you 738 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 4: are you loyal to an airline? 739 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,200 Speaker 3: Are you loyal to a hotel chain? Why are you? 740 00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:30,319 Speaker 3: Or are you loyal to a grocery store? You're loyal to. 741 00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,759 Speaker 4: Them because you find the consistency of the experience you're 742 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,200 Speaker 4: having with them makes you want to go back. And 743 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,080 Speaker 4: it's usually pleasurable and easy, and you get what you 744 00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:43,719 Speaker 4: want when you want it at the right price, with 745 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,160 Speaker 4: the right level of service to bring you satisfaction. Clients 746 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 4: are no different in asset management, and we have within 747 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,719 Speaker 4: asset management a lot of regulatory you have client reporting, 748 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,640 Speaker 4: you have complexity of portfolios, like we were is talking 749 00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,000 Speaker 4: about that and all and you then have challenges in 750 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,560 Speaker 4: sometimes in an investment strategy or in the markets generally 751 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 4: where you're looking for good advice. So for all Spring, 752 00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 4: what does it mean. It means accessibility. It means accessibility 753 00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:17,719 Speaker 4: to our portfolio managers. So if you if you have 754 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 4: a question that you need to answer for a client 755 00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,720 Speaker 4: and you need to get a portfolio manager or someone 756 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,960 Speaker 4: on their team get that answer quickly, you get it. 757 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:27,400 Speaker 3: We're able to provide that for you. 758 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,920 Speaker 4: It's also knowing our clients and getting the right information 759 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,439 Speaker 4: into their hands at the right time, leveraging technology. It's 760 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 4: also about all of the back end, the complexity of reporting, 761 00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:43,160 Speaker 4: the complexity of client onboarding. No one wants to fill 762 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,279 Speaker 4: out thirty forms to open up an account or to 763 00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,240 Speaker 4: start a new investment. How do we create the ease 764 00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 4: of engagement with all Spring for the intermedia, whether it's 765 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 4: an institution or the client, that their money is put 766 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 4: to work quickly and efficiently and easily in a way 767 00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:04,320 Speaker 4: they end understand. And that's largely leveraged by really good 768 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:09,320 Speaker 4: client relationships and then a technology infrastructure that's being built 769 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 4: to get them what they want when they want it. 770 00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 4: So we're investing a lot in our technology platform right 771 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:14,520 Speaker 4: now to help. 772 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 2: Since you brought up technology, I'm legally obligated to ask 773 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 2: about AI. What do you think about artificial intelligence as 774 00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,920 Speaker 2: applied to the wealth management industry? How is all Spring 775 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 2: using AI? 776 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:28,839 Speaker 3: So I think of. 777 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 4: AI or strategy around AI in really three ways. One 778 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,360 Speaker 4: we've turned it on and what I just called general 779 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 4: efficiency tools like chat, GBT, ask a question, you're going 780 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,080 Speaker 4: to get a better answer than if you put it 781 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 4: into Google, or helping you do first drafts of writing. Like, 782 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 4: there's a lot of general efficiency kinds of tools that 783 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 4: are out there that you could, like, really anybody can 784 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:56,560 Speaker 4: use fairly quickly without a lot of training. The second 785 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,799 Speaker 4: phase for us is really about partnership and who are 786 00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 4: we working with, who's also investing in AI, who will 787 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 4: help us leverage solutions to help really mind data. It's 788 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,280 Speaker 4: all about data at the bottom. You need really clean data. 789 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 4: So we're also spending a lot of time making sure 790 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 4: we have clean data. But you need if you're going 791 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,520 Speaker 4: to query data to give you an answer, the data 792 00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,720 Speaker 4: better be right otherwise you're going to get the hallucinations 793 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,799 Speaker 4: and false findings. So who we're trying to leverage good 794 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:30,160 Speaker 4: partners in terms of building out our AI capabilities. And 795 00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:32,239 Speaker 4: then the third pillar of it is really our own 796 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 4: agents and the agentic AI and what is it that 797 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,600 Speaker 4: we specifically can build inside all Spring that will help 798 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 4: us answer very specific questions associated with our own workflow 799 00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,800 Speaker 4: and our own clients and trying to invest very specifically 800 00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,799 Speaker 4: in business cases there either in any of those scenarios, though, 801 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 4: you need to be able to put the business issue 802 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 4: and the technology. You need to be able to be 803 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 4: able to translate between the two if you want to 804 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 4: be effective with it. 805 00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 2: And I feel compelled to ask you a question about culture, 806 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,359 Speaker 2: not only because you were running a wealth management shop 807 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 2: right in the middle of the pandemic, but you've talked 808 00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:19,279 Speaker 2: about the importance of culture and how significant it is 809 00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 2: for there to be a unifying philosophy for firm. Tell 810 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,799 Speaker 2: us a little bit about the culture of Allspring and 811 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:27,799 Speaker 2: how do you maintain that. 812 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,759 Speaker 4: So first, all the and what our cultural surveys have 813 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,480 Speaker 4: conveyed to us is that the client centricity, the client 814 00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:40,839 Speaker 4: focus at all Spring is so high. I mean, it's 815 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 4: everything we do is are we put what is in 816 00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,640 Speaker 4: the best interest of the client. And I think if 817 00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:48,760 Speaker 4: you have that as your north star from a cultural 818 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 4: perspective and as a fiduciary, that means you're going to 819 00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:55,040 Speaker 4: do the right thing and that then creates a lot 820 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 4: of pull through, whether it's in risk management or in 821 00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:04,880 Speaker 4: client service. Seeing that all is really meaningful. Two, we 822 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,719 Speaker 4: like we have a nice culture, Like I think being 823 00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,160 Speaker 4: I think being positive, optimistic, nice to each other is 824 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,759 Speaker 4: really important. You want to bring you want to build camaraderie, 825 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 4: especially when you're building a new organization. There are a 826 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,240 Speaker 4: lot of difficult things we have we had to tackle 827 00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 4: internally and that we're looking to build together. So camaraderie 828 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 4: and focus is really I think important. And then the 829 00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,600 Speaker 4: third part of the tool to me is always this, 830 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,480 Speaker 4: always be learning. Is this credible challenge culture right, which 831 00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,359 Speaker 4: is very important where we can all sit around the 832 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:42,399 Speaker 4: table and not agree. That's the beauty of investing, That's 833 00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,480 Speaker 4: the beauty of any any diverse set of people, is 834 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,319 Speaker 4: that you're going to get differences of opinions and we 835 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 4: should be able to share those opinions, debate those and 836 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,000 Speaker 4: get to a conclusion and then move forward. 837 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:56,440 Speaker 3: But you have to have credible challenge. 838 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,200 Speaker 4: You have to have it public and in the room, 839 00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 4: not in the conversation after the conversation, And so that's 840 00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 4: something that we're really focused on as we're bringing you know, 841 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,840 Speaker 4: these different parts of all spring together to work more closely. 842 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,120 Speaker 4: Is everyone has a voice and a seat at the 843 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 4: table to express their perspective. Doesn't mean you get what 844 00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:20,040 Speaker 4: you want, but but we're but we want to hear 845 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,279 Speaker 4: it because that will help us make better decisions for 846 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:22,840 Speaker 4: our clients. 847 00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:26,439 Speaker 2: Credible challenge. I like that phrase. So last question before 848 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,839 Speaker 2: we get to our favorite questions. What do you think 849 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,319 Speaker 2: investors are not talking about but should be? Could be 850 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:36,000 Speaker 2: an asset or a geography policy. What's out there that 851 00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 2: just isn't getting enough attention. 852 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,160 Speaker 4: So AI is amazing in one way, but the other 853 00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,600 Speaker 4: part of AI that I think has not gotten a 854 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 4: lot of conversation it is how much energy it uses? 855 00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:50,840 Speaker 3: Oh really, and the need for the energy grid. 856 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,520 Speaker 4: There's a lot of infrastructure build that's going to have 857 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,040 Speaker 4: to happen for the dream of AI to be successful. 858 00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 4: And if we aren't able to catch up our energy 859 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 4: infrastruct icture, then some of the dream of AI is 860 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,000 Speaker 4: going to be tampered simply because we don't have enough 861 00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:09,160 Speaker 4: energy to run it. And individual consumer bills are going 862 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:10,759 Speaker 4: to go through the roof, which is not going to 863 00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,400 Speaker 4: be palatable either. 864 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,800 Speaker 3: So to me, it's energy around aid needs more debate 865 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:16,480 Speaker 3: and discussion. 866 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:19,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's already happening. We've already seen pockets of 867 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:23,000 Speaker 2: energy bills going through the exactly. All right, Let's jump 868 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,680 Speaker 2: to our favorite questions that we ask all of our guests, 869 00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:29,359 Speaker 2: starting with mentors. Who are your early mentors who helped 870 00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:30,280 Speaker 2: shape your career? 871 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,839 Speaker 4: So one of my earliest mentors was that Tommy Hill 872 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,000 Speaker 4: figure woman named Kathleen Gannon and another woman named Lyn Shanahan. 873 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,760 Speaker 4: There are just two powerhouse women early in my career 874 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,400 Speaker 4: who made me, helped me believe in myself and my 875 00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,400 Speaker 4: capability set the other Can I shift the question quickly? 876 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,000 Speaker 3: What I like to talk about. 877 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,080 Speaker 4: Is my board of directors, uh huh, which is a 878 00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:57,000 Speaker 4: concept of that as you work through your career, you 879 00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,840 Speaker 4: should be aware of the people that you're engaging with 880 00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 4: and how they can help you make good decisions and 881 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 4: totality around your life, so. 882 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 2: You're not referring to your corporate board, personal. 883 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:09,360 Speaker 3: Board of directors. 884 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:09,839 Speaker 2: I love that. 885 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,080 Speaker 4: So when I was a young mother, I needed other 886 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:14,359 Speaker 4: young mothers to be a part of my board who 887 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,280 Speaker 4: could help me work through like the challenges of work 888 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:22,000 Speaker 4: and rearing young children as you progress in your career. 889 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,280 Speaker 4: Some of them have been on my board forever. My parents, 890 00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:29,239 Speaker 4: my you know, my siblings are are always available to me. 891 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:32,200 Speaker 4: But I have people that I've grown up with who 892 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:35,799 Speaker 4: have taken very different career arcs but are really good 893 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,439 Speaker 4: with people, or are really good with financials or really 894 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:41,439 Speaker 4: good with strategy decisions. And who can I look at 895 00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:44,719 Speaker 4: outside of my you know, people that I work with 896 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 4: who provide all of that to me, But no, I 897 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:49,759 Speaker 4: have outside council and and know that people come in 898 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:53,120 Speaker 4: and off that board depending on the phase I am 899 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:55,480 Speaker 4: in my own life, And so how do I how 900 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,400 Speaker 4: do I leverage So now I'm trying to build a 901 00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:00,239 Speaker 4: better personal board of directors as a CEO, saying who 902 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,480 Speaker 4: are other people who have to experience these same sorts 903 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:05,360 Speaker 4: of experiences that I'm going through, and how can I 904 00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 4: build relationships with them to help me learn and grow 905 00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:11,640 Speaker 4: and gain more so I can be more value at it? 906 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,080 Speaker 2: Really interesting, Let's talk about books. What are you reading now? 907 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:16,120 Speaker 2: What are some of your favorites? 908 00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:17,560 Speaker 3: I love historical fiction. 909 00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 4: I'm reading Trust Right Now by Hernon Diaz I think 910 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:24,400 Speaker 4: is the last name. If I got that wrong, you 911 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:30,080 Speaker 4: can edit it out. It's about the won the Pultzer Prize. 912 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 4: It was about the roaring nineteen twenties. It's for disparate 913 00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,879 Speaker 4: views and it shows how people can believe their own 914 00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,879 Speaker 4: narrative of if they're adding good to the world. 915 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,080 Speaker 3: So it's like a robber Baron is in it. 916 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,440 Speaker 4: You know, there's people who are involved in the evolution 917 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:50,000 Speaker 4: of what's happening, and some of them view that what 918 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:55,120 Speaker 4: they're doing is good for society, when in reality, the society, 919 00:53:55,320 --> 00:53:56,800 Speaker 4: you know, we went through a great depression. 920 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:57,479 Speaker 3: As or book. 921 00:53:57,560 --> 00:53:59,800 Speaker 2: Is that historical fiction or historical nonfiction? 922 00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,000 Speaker 3: That's an interesting view of it. 923 00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 4: But it's very but it's fun to read, and it's 924 00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:07,920 Speaker 4: and it's a written by an author's writing it and 925 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:10,439 Speaker 4: four really distinctive voices too, so. 926 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:12,239 Speaker 3: I enjoy it. 927 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,040 Speaker 2: Huh sounds interesting. What about entertainment? What are you either 928 00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:18,360 Speaker 2: watching or listening to these days? What are you streaming? 929 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 4: So when I am just winding down, I like a 930 00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,880 Speaker 4: good hang with Amy Poehlar. I want her to be 931 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,960 Speaker 4: my friend. I want most of the people on that 932 00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,920 Speaker 4: show to be my friend. She just brings such energy 933 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,759 Speaker 4: and positivity and humor to it that it's always a 934 00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:38,879 Speaker 4: good one to listen and wind down to. And then 935 00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,600 Speaker 4: TV wise, I just watched Stranger Things with my children 936 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,719 Speaker 4: when they were back home from a break. And I 937 00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:47,480 Speaker 4: love Stranger Things because I'm literally the age of those 938 00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:49,799 Speaker 4: kids right like in the show, I'm like, this is 939 00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:52,200 Speaker 4: my I'm like watching my youth play back to me, 940 00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:55,280 Speaker 4: riding my bikes, building forts. My parents had no idea 941 00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:58,040 Speaker 4: where we were. Thankfully we didn't have any demic ordans 942 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:03,239 Speaker 4: after us. But like it's just it's it's super fun, nostalgic, 943 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 4: nostalgic and I and then a great story line as 944 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,680 Speaker 4: well of teamwork and perseverance and fight and all. 945 00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:14,680 Speaker 2: That good stuff. That's next up in Mike Queue. Our 946 00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,879 Speaker 2: final two questions. What sort of advice would you give 947 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,200 Speaker 2: to a recent college graduate interest in the career and 948 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,040 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter fixed income investing in finance? 949 00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,840 Speaker 3: One is network network network network. 950 00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:30,480 Speaker 4: I got my first job because I was trying to 951 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:33,200 Speaker 4: get a different job. I was talking to someone to 952 00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:35,840 Speaker 4: make another introduction and ended up getting a job with 953 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:36,800 Speaker 4: that person instead. 954 00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,120 Speaker 3: So you never know, you really have to. 955 00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:43,440 Speaker 4: Lean into meeting people and being open to where the 956 00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:48,439 Speaker 4: conversation takes you. And two, what's different now versus when 957 00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:50,640 Speaker 4: I was growing up? And it is there's so much 958 00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,840 Speaker 4: information available with this podcast. There's so many places to 959 00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,799 Speaker 4: learn and be informed. So really take control of your 960 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,680 Speaker 4: career and always be learned and find the area that 961 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:06,600 Speaker 4: is most interesting. If you lean towards equities, lean towards equities, 962 00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:10,640 Speaker 4: if you lean towards fixed income, but teach yourself, don't 963 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,200 Speaker 4: expect someone to teach it to you. 964 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:14,759 Speaker 2: And our final question, what do you know about the 965 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:17,919 Speaker 2: world of investing today might have been useful twenty five 966 00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,760 Speaker 2: or thirty years ago when you were first getting started. 967 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,879 Speaker 3: I mean, this is true for all the power of compounding. 968 00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,040 Speaker 2: That comes up all the time every time. I mean, 969 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:28,719 Speaker 2: I just don't see it when you're young. 970 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:31,319 Speaker 4: You just don't understand it when you're younger and so 971 00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:36,000 Speaker 4: and investing consistently dollar averaging through the good times through 972 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,400 Speaker 4: the bad times. If you have a consistency approach, you 973 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,960 Speaker 4: can build a long term, durable portfolio. 974 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:45,040 Speaker 2: Thank you, Kate for being so generous with your time. 975 00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,840 Speaker 2: We have been my pleasure. We have been speaking with 976 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 2: Kate Burke. She's the CEO of all Spring Global Investments. 977 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,640 Speaker 2: If you enjoy these questions well, be sure to check 978 00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:57,960 Speaker 2: out any of the six hundred previous discussions we've had 979 00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:02,400 Speaker 2: over the past twelve years. You can find those at iTunes, Spotify, 980 00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:07,440 Speaker 2: Bloomberg YouTube, wherever you get your favorite podcasts. And be 981 00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:10,680 Speaker 2: sure to check out my new book, How Not to 982 00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,520 Speaker 2: Invest The ideas, numbers, and behavior that destroys wealth and 983 00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,680 Speaker 2: How to avoid them at your favorite bookstore. I'm Barry Rutults. 984 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,680 Speaker 2: You've been listening to Master's in Business on Bloomberg Radio