Speaker 1: On the bell Cast, the questions asked if movies have
Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,
Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef in best
Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello Charlie, Yes,
Speaker 1: it's me Charlie. Oh Hi, I'm a hot girl. What
Speaker 1: do you want me to do? I want you to
Speaker 1: do a mission, But you'll never meet me, and that's
Speaker 1: then of ours kind of that's what's kind of hot
Speaker 1: about it. Isn't You're an old man that I can't
Speaker 1: see and I can never meet, And that's kind of
Speaker 1: what gets me going with all my friends and Bill
Speaker 1: Murray fucking what there? Hi? Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 1: This movie is so weird. Okay, um Hi, Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Becktel Cast of My name is Jamie Loftus. My
Speaker 1: name is Caitlin Darante. This is our feminist movie podcast
Speaker 1: and as you can tell, we're going to discuss a
Speaker 1: very feminist movie today, a feminist text. True. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I've truly built myself from the building blocks of these
Speaker 1: various bikini people. Um yeah. I also learned who Sam
Speaker 1: Rockwell was from this movie. What is this podcast. So
Speaker 1: we talk about I know, this is our first time
Speaker 1: recording in quite some time. We take each other a
Speaker 1: big gap in like a month, maybe even more, No,
Speaker 1: September one. Isn't it weird that I've been keeping counting
Speaker 1: like I have haven't seen you for twenty nine days? Well,
Speaker 1: all right, because of our live episodes. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 1: you're right. Okay, yes, anyway, so we're all out of sorts,
Speaker 1: but we're back and better than ever. And we talk
Speaker 1: about the representation of women in film and how it's usually,
Speaker 1: you know, not the best, and we use especially in
Speaker 1: the year two thousand, I think that this is maybe
Speaker 1: a low and indeed, yeah, and we used the Bechdel test,
Speaker 1: sometimes known as the Bechdel Wallace test, which requires that
Speaker 1: female identifying characters with names must speak to each other
Speaker 1: about something other than a man. Hello. Oops, it already fails.
Speaker 1: Um by our standards, it must just be a two
Speaker 1: line exchange, right, So we're set. We're starting by setting
Speaker 1: the bar real low and seeing if if any movies
Speaker 1: can crest it. And that the test is invented by
Speaker 1: cartoonist Alison Bechdel, and sure is. Oh boy, we're back.
Speaker 1: We're back nine days. I feel like I haven't spoken
Speaker 1: so long. We also have a guest with us. Yes,
Speaker 1: per usual, our guest today. She's a comedian, a writer.
Speaker 1: You've seen her on SNL and she's the co host
Speaker 1: of the podcast Best Friends with past guest of the show,
Speaker 1: Nicole Byer. It's shears amid up. Yes, Hi, Hello, Charlie.
Speaker 1: Oh what a who do we know? Who plays char
Speaker 1: in the movie? It's the actual Charlie from the TV show.
Speaker 1: Oh the back of the back of the head guy
Speaker 1: at the end of that actor that we saw physically
Speaker 1: in the movie is the same person. But the voice
Speaker 1: is the same as the guy who played Interest in
Speaker 1: the TV show. And I'm looking up his name as
Speaker 1: we speak, and he's not first build, So let me
Speaker 1: give me a second. Well, that's part of why he
Speaker 1: is such an icon, as he doesn't take up space.
Speaker 1: John forsites it's his name. And this is not passing
Speaker 1: the Bechdel test, so they're not all going to pass.
Speaker 1: But so, sire, thank you so much for being here. Um,
Speaker 1: tell us about your history, your relationship with this movie,
Speaker 1: this maybe franchise as it were, and and so to be.
Speaker 1: We're talking about the two thousand movie version Cameron Diaz,
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore, Lucy Loo. Yes, yes, I watched this movie
Speaker 1: when he came out. I'm pretty sure I saw Full
Speaker 1: Throttle as well, and I remember liking it. It's fun
Speaker 1: to see women do stuff that's like action every thinking
Speaker 1: that was fun, And this is my first time seeing it,
Speaker 1: probably since it came out. I think that's probably the
Speaker 1: case for a lot of people. Yeah, this isn't a
Speaker 1: movie that people seem to like revisit a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're and we're discussing it because the reboot is about
Speaker 1: to come out, because legally, you have to everything, So
Speaker 1: that's why we're did I mean otherwise, I truly don't
Speaker 1: know if I ever would have seen or thought about
Speaker 1: this movie again. And I'm sure that that's true for
Speaker 1: maybe everyone who was in the movie. Do you have
Speaker 1: the name of them? I got really stuck on this
Speaker 1: when I was like doing the background research for this movie.
Speaker 1: The name of the director is just is that he
Speaker 1: don't know that. I'm not familiar with Mick Gee's work.
Speaker 1: I guess I feel like he was a music video
Speaker 1: director he which makes sense for her. Okay, that makes
Speaker 1: more sense to me. I was just like how this
Speaker 1: is his first feature, but he also he comes back
Speaker 1: for full throttle. He does Keeping in the Family because
Speaker 1: he was a success the first time. Nick g and
Speaker 1: then and then the movie is of course written by
Speaker 1: three men, including John August, who um I think people
Speaker 1: maybe think better of but you know, it was, it was.
Speaker 1: It was two thousand. I do remember noticing that Drew
Speaker 1: Barrymore produced this movie, like when it came out and
Speaker 1: or like she's one of the producers, and I remember
Speaker 1: being like fucking good for her, like because she's had
Speaker 1: a life, you know, like from going from like a
Speaker 1: twelve year old attictude still alive and really like creating
Speaker 1: her own ship. I think that's really great and awesome.
Speaker 1: So and she made a ton of money off this franchise. Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, yeah, and she's and when this movie came out,
Speaker 1: she's like still only twenty five, which is crazy insane.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean she's lived several lives. Yeah, Jamie,
Speaker 1: what's your history relationship with this? I think pretty similar.
Speaker 1: I remember seeing this movie at like a sleepover at
Speaker 1: some point, thinking it was really funny and cool and like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I was probably like eleven, so I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I understand this sexy joke and like,
Speaker 1: just everyone's just faking their way through it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I think I just saw it me once, maybe twice.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in at least fifteen years. And
Speaker 1: also it was kind of fun on his watch to like,
Speaker 1: when I saw this movie for the first time, I
Speaker 1: didn't know who Sam rock Well was. I didn't know
Speaker 1: who Tim Curry was. Like, there were all these actors
Speaker 1: that are in this movie that I just was like
Speaker 1: when I was ten, I was just like, Lucy News awesome. Um,
Speaker 1: there's a ton of people and a ton of people
Speaker 1: made a ton of money, and at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, don't we just want a bunch of random
Speaker 1: people to have a lot of money. This movie also
Speaker 1: looks so expensive. There was a whole scenes that could
Speaker 1: be cut that are so it was. Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: really early odds decadence for no reason. Yeah, what's your
Speaker 1: history with it? I had never seen any of this
Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels content. I hadn't watched the show at all.
Speaker 1: Never watched these movies, not this one nor Full Throttle.
Speaker 1: I have seen both of them now. Um, except for
Speaker 1: the last twenty minutes of Full Throttle, which I didn't
Speaker 1: have time to finish before we started recording. With you
Speaker 1: on your toes. You don't want to. You couldn't get
Speaker 1: to the end of it. You're dying to not turned out.
Speaker 1: As soon as we hit stop on this record, I
Speaker 1: will return to it. But then as you have to run,
Speaker 1: don't walk. I yeah, I just I don't know why
Speaker 1: I didn't ever see these, but I think I was like, maybe,
Speaker 1: like you know, two thousand, I was a freshman in
Speaker 1: high school, so I was like, I'm too cool for
Speaker 1: girl movies. I'm a guys out, you know, that wholest
Speaker 1: kind of person, right, So but I gathered some information
Speaker 1: and I realized a lot of it now is misinformation
Speaker 1: from these movies. Like I thought I thought Bernie Mack
Speaker 1: was Charlie, but he's just Bosley, but only in the
Speaker 1: second movie, like I just had. I was all, I'm
Speaker 1: all mixed up, But now I've said everything straight. Wait,
Speaker 1: Bill Murray isn't in the second movie, correct, because apparently
Speaker 1: he had um there was animosity between him and mc
Speaker 1: gee and then also apparently between him. God, yeah, I
Speaker 1: hate that sentence so much. That's brutal um. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're you gonna say Lucy Lou was the other person
Speaker 1: he had. I also remember hearing that and I didn't
Speaker 1: I don't know. When I heard this, was like that's
Speaker 1: a weird thing, but then didn't realize that I was
Speaker 1: watching the movie. Oh it's probably from this movie, because
Speaker 1: I was like, when would they have talked to each other?
Speaker 1: I just didn't know. But yeah, I guess that beef.
Speaker 1: That sucks because also I've never met Actually I met
Speaker 1: Lucile once, very pleasant as were at a show, So
Speaker 1: why would why would she be otherwise? But I was like,
Speaker 1: what does she really mean? For? In my mind, I'm like,
Speaker 1: who would ever be mad at her? Should I dive
Speaker 1: into the recap? Yeah? Recap away? All right? So Charlie's
Speaker 1: Angels two thousand, directed by Feminist Icon, tells the story.
Speaker 1: Um okay, so there's an opening sequence so crazy that
Speaker 1: I think we just need to dedicate like a full
Speaker 1: hour to talk about that separately. I have a quick
Speaker 1: I know this is a feminist podcast, but I'm just
Speaker 1: going to be sprinkling in some First, he directed the
Speaker 1: smash Mouth All Star music video He's Coming in Hot
Speaker 1: Hey Now and then he then he directed documentaries for
Speaker 1: both Corn and Sugar Ray because there's or his must
Speaker 1: be told. And then he got Charlie's age. Wow. Interesting. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're like, this is the guy. His voice clearly is
Speaker 1: mal teens love him. The opening sequence, they're on a
Speaker 1: plane and LLL Cool jays there and we'll talk about
Speaker 1: the whole thing a little later on, but we're introduced
Speaker 1: to the Angels, this trio of crime fighting private investigators.
Speaker 1: They are all women. The twist twist is there women
Speaker 1: this time, and they all work for this guy named
Speaker 1: Charlie who they've never met. They've only ever heard his voice,
Speaker 1: which is a carryover from the show as well. I
Speaker 1: believe the Angels are Natalie. That's Cameron Diaz. She's really
Speaker 1: good at driving and she's also a genius on Jeopardy.
Speaker 1: Very unclear. Their characters are perhaps not defined very well. No,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're like they marry Sue, like scene by scene,
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, no, she's also a scientist. I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: I saw her at a cop academy. They're like, whatever,
Speaker 1: she's a scientist. Then we've got Alex that's Lucy Lou.
Speaker 1: She is a horseback rider, but then they neither of
Speaker 1: which come into play at any other point, and she's
Speaker 1: dating Matt LeBlanc, who also plays an actor and who
Speaker 1: has a very bad haircut that's wet all the time.
Speaker 1: Another wet haired Yeah, just like guys who look like
Speaker 1: they needed to be toweled off. And then Dylan Drew
Speaker 1: Barrymore's character. She's kind of like a badass rocker chick.
Speaker 1: And I guess also she's the slutty one because she
Speaker 1: has sex with Chad a k A. Tom Green future
Speaker 1: husband hard Pilled the swallow. Yes, and then maybe he's great.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Oh sure, yeah, we don't know. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's great. Then we also meet Bosley. That's Bill Murray's character,
Speaker 1: and he is the liaison between Charlie and the Angels.
Speaker 1: They get their next assignment, which is to find Eric Knox,
Speaker 1: a tech bro who was kidnapped and whose voice recognition
Speaker 1: software was stolen. His business partner, Vivian Wood, has hired
Speaker 1: the Angels to find him, and as they're looking at
Speaker 1: this surveillance footage of knox Is kidnapping, they spot this
Speaker 1: like thin man in the reflection of a window. That's
Speaker 1: his character's name the Thin Man, which is like another
Speaker 1: well that's like another reference to the show. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: is it a shower a movie? I'm like, I'm pretending. So.
Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels was a TV series on I forget which network,
Speaker 1: some broadcast at work in the seventies into the early eighties.
Speaker 1: So yes, I have not seen any of but I
Speaker 1: think it lasted like four or five seasons. That was
Speaker 1: like where Fara faws it became famous, right, that was sure, people,
Speaker 1: we're too young and we're going to dive into our
Speaker 1: engines to be like stupid idiots on the bittle cast
Speaker 1: didn't watch a show from nine six? I think that's right.
Speaker 1: I'm ready. I think it was. Yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: far faucets. Yeah that was yeh would believe. Yeah. There's
Speaker 1: also a lot of remix of Charlie's Angels. I just
Speaker 1: typed in Charlie's Angels into IMDb, and there's like the
Speaker 1: ones coming out into eighteen, the two thousand's one, nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy six TV series, two eleven, TV series three, video game,
Speaker 1: something called Charlie's Angels that came out in two seventeen.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure who Charlie is I mean, this is
Speaker 1: a popular property. Everyone once to adapt it, which I
Speaker 1: think is like weirdly telling in its own way to
Speaker 1: just like why are we still trying with this? There
Speaker 1: was fascinating about women who are hot but also good
Speaker 1: at spy stuff, also just subservient to a godlike boy.
Speaker 1: There's two and six TV show Grief. The Thin Man
Speaker 1: is a is a famous detective movie. Oh yes, uh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: The Thin and the Thin Man. Um. Okay, So they
Speaker 1: spot the thin Man in the reflection of a car
Speaker 1: window and they so they're like, Okay, we've got to
Speaker 1: figure out who this guy is. We have to find him.
Speaker 1: And then they know of an enemy of Eric Knox,
Speaker 1: this guy named Corwin. That's Tim Curry's character, who owns
Speaker 1: a satellite company and who at one point tried to
Speaker 1: buy Knox Enterprises, but Knox refused to sell. Did any
Speaker 1: of you get like confused with the various villainous plots
Speaker 1: that were like I kept I was trying really hard
Speaker 1: to find I was like, this is like I didn't
Speaker 1: like many like spies, like detective espionage type stories. I
Speaker 1: think they're purposefully convoluted so that when I don't go
Speaker 1: I just don't realize how many like plot holes there
Speaker 1: are stuff like that. I was just I was getting
Speaker 1: like insecure, and I was like, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: there and they're going to know exactly what happened. I'm
Speaker 1: not really sure what happened. Why are they at a
Speaker 1: race track? Doesn't matter and they are racing. Full Throttle
Speaker 1: is far more confusing. So if you think this one's bad, like,
Speaker 1: just wait till you see Full Throttle and a complidence.
Speaker 1: But I just was worried that I personally was stupid
Speaker 1: and didn't understand. No, it's it's for sure overly complicated
Speaker 1: and pretty nonsense cool. Okay. So um, the Angels crash
Speaker 1: Corwin's party to try to get some intel, and Luke
Speaker 1: Wilson is there and he and Natalie are flirting. Sure. Um,
Speaker 1: And at the party they spot the Thin Man, who
Speaker 1: is played by Crispin Glover and they all chase after him,
Speaker 1: and he inadvertently leads them to Eric Knox, all tied
Speaker 1: up and kidnapped, who Jamie, as you pointed out, is
Speaker 1: played by Sam Rockwell and all star cast is what
Speaker 1: we're sasses Sam Rockwell wild, So they rescue him, but
Speaker 1: his voice recognition technology is still gone, and they realize
Speaker 1: that Corwin wants this voice technology because it can turn
Speaker 1: any cell phone into a homing device, So they have
Speaker 1: to get it back to protect people's privacy. I mean,
Speaker 1: isn't that what going through right now? I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: they knew, they knew back into thousand that we should
Speaker 1: have listened to McGee when we had the chick. So
Speaker 1: then they plant a camera on Corwin's briefcase at the
Speaker 1: race track, which is a scene that we need to
Speaker 1: have so that they can survey the inside of his
Speaker 1: like corporate headquarters. And then they figure out what they
Speaker 1: need to do to infiltrate Corwin's security vault. Um, there's
Speaker 1: these like two security director guys whose fingerprints and retinal
Speaker 1: scans they need. So they go and gather that stuff
Speaker 1: and they break into the vault and hack into Corwin's
Speaker 1: main frame. They do have they hack and that's pretty hard,
Speaker 1: you gotta handed to him. They hack, and also Melissa
Speaker 1: McCarthy's there. Melissa McCarthy is there. Yeah, this is like
Speaker 1: has to be a really early role for her, right,
Speaker 1: She's great. She calls Lucy Lou a bitch in a
Speaker 1: scene that spoiler alert does pass. The Betel test does pass. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is full of four hornymen flanking Lucy Luke, and
Speaker 1: yet somehow it still a limited metric that's not perfect. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: Knox and Drew Barry Moore's character Dylan, are flirting, and
Speaker 1: then Cameron Diaz is going on her date with Luke Wilson.
Speaker 1: Vivian Wood, Knox's partner, seems kind of suspicious, and then
Speaker 1: she is also seducing Bill Murray shortly because everyone has
Speaker 1: to be seducing someone. If you're a woman in this movie,
Speaker 1: you must be seductive. Yes, yeah, yeah, we'll talk all
Speaker 1: about your body is your only weapon in most scenes.
Speaker 1: And then Crispin Glovers the thin man who is Crispin Glovers?
Speaker 1: Why should I know? Um played George McFly in Back
Speaker 1: to the Future. That's probably his biggest role to date,
Speaker 1: That's how I know him. He kills Corwin, Tim Curry's character,
Speaker 1: and then other people are trying to kill the Angels,
Speaker 1: and then Vivian drugs and kidnaps Bosley because surprise, Vivian
Speaker 1: and Knox are the bad guys. Yes, yes, yep, and
Speaker 1: then the Angels figure out that Knox was using them
Speaker 1: to tap into Corwin's satellite technology so that Knox could
Speaker 1: use his voice recognition software to track down Charlie, their boss,
Speaker 1: because he thinks that Charlie killed his father, so sure
Speaker 1: that's why he's after him. This is honestly, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm totally gone at this point, have no idea. Okay, Now,
Speaker 1: the Angels figure out where Bosley is being held and
Speaker 1: they go after him to rescue him. So they all
Speaker 1: arrive at this place is like fortress. Knox captures Dylan
Speaker 1: and ties her up. Natalie rescues Bosley and then fights
Speaker 1: with Vivian for a bit. Um. Alex tries to interfere
Speaker 1: with Knoxes like phone trace to figure out where Charlie
Speaker 1: is while she's also fighting Crispin Glover. And then finally
Speaker 1: all these all these fights are happening exhausting, and then
Speaker 1: Knox finally pinpoints Charlie's location and then like leaves in
Speaker 1: a helicopter to go very far, not far, extremely conveniently
Speaker 1: like a jet ski away. And then the Angels are
Speaker 1: fighting off the bad guys and then they go to
Speaker 1: stop Knox. They blow up his helicopter and then they
Speaker 1: that's a great shot where the missile hits oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Sam rockwell and explodes. He dies so he could he's
Speaker 1: in pieces. He shred it intense. Then then they wash
Speaker 1: up on the beach right in front of Charlie's house,
Speaker 1: which is right there, which is at the edge of
Speaker 1: the beach, not even deep in a forest, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's in hiding, all right, but he's not there and
Speaker 1: they just missed him because you can only ever hear
Speaker 1: his voice, are so horny before they go into the house,
Speaker 1: like do you do you think he's gonna Their relationship
Speaker 1: drives me nuts. They're all soaking wet and they're like,
Speaker 1: do you think he's gonna? Uh? And that's pretty much
Speaker 1: the end of the movie. They're drunk on the beach
Speaker 1: after that, and then that's the end. It turns out
Speaker 1: Charlie's actually watching them from afar and chooses to not
Speaker 1: introduce himself extremely rude framed pictures of them in his house.
Speaker 1: It's so weird, and that is the movie. Hey, Jamie,
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Speaker 1: which I think really brings this very smoothly back to
Speaker 1: what we were discussing. It sure does the angels. Oh boy,
Speaker 1: can't we start with I wanted to complement this movie
Speaker 1: on exact like on on one thing that I thought
Speaker 1: was and there's the moments where you're like, but I
Speaker 1: I was kind of expecting the fight choreography in this
Speaker 1: movie to be super lame and like the way that
Speaker 1: we see female action heroes, especially like a little earlier on,
Speaker 1: are really like they're only allowed to fight other women.
Speaker 1: They don't really have weapons. They're pulling hair and kicking
Speaker 1: each other. Literally, they're vagina pressing. What is the movie
Speaker 1: where they've vagina pressed each other in the face? And you're, um,
Speaker 1: I mean there are there are dozens of movies where
Speaker 1: a woman wraps her slash vagina around usually a man's face,
Speaker 1: but exactly it could be any gender. Uh, And then
Speaker 1: like slam pussy slams them into the ground. That's what
Speaker 1: I meant when vagina press, that was nasty. I'm sorry
Speaker 1: that sounds like some merch we will need to make.
Speaker 1: The vagina press. I thought it was two pussies pressed
Speaker 1: against That's what I thought. I was like, what movie
Speaker 1: is this? We'll make a list, but but and and
Speaker 1: not in every example, but the fight choreography was way
Speaker 1: better and cooler than I thought I was going to be.
Speaker 1: There was like the whole first fight sequence where the
Speaker 1: three of them are fighting that guy. You can tell
Speaker 1: it's the actual actors that are doing the fight choreography.
Speaker 1: They're really good at it. It seems like they're like
Speaker 1: it was like exciting. I don't know. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of the fight choreography that I thought was like
Speaker 1: way better than I was expecting from this kind of movie.
Speaker 1: It did seem like with their legs in the air
Speaker 1: for a long time that they were being held up
Speaker 1: by strings or something. For sure, sure there was there
Speaker 1: was at one point where you can see Drew barrymore
Speaker 1: Land and a harness and sort of be like she
Speaker 1: like bounces down. I was like, a Jay didn't get
Speaker 1: the shot. Well, this movie comes out a year after
Speaker 1: The Matrix comes out. In this movie and desperately wants
Speaker 1: to have fight scenes that look a lot like the
Speaker 1: fight scenes in The Matrix they have. There's kind of
Speaker 1: like there are elements of this movie that are so
Speaker 1: campy silly that I'm like, the obvious harnesses I thought
Speaker 1: were kind of fun because they could afford to not
Speaker 1: I mean this. They had a ninety three million dollar
Speaker 1: budget to make this movie, which in two thousand, who
Speaker 1: even knows. It's like ridiculous. They were just blowing up
Speaker 1: race cars because it was allowed. They're like again in
Speaker 1: a scene that really has no bearing on the plot whatsoever. No, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: I was just checking because I was like maybe every
Speaker 1: time I would get confused, I like, probably because I
Speaker 1: didn't understand the race car scene. Yeah, you know it
Speaker 1: really is that scene. Does something happen in that scene?
Speaker 1: I think the point was to plant a camera on
Speaker 1: this guy so they could figure out the entryway to
Speaker 1: the vault vaults. But there's no reason that needs to
Speaker 1: happen as a race car track thing. I guess that's
Speaker 1: just what that guy was doing that day. Had like
Speaker 1: the tuft of Drew Barrymore's hair that he couldn't stop smelling.
Speaker 1: Was that that's the man. They weren't looking for him.
Speaker 1: They're looking for Tim Curry Crispin Glover. Honestly couldn't pick
Speaker 1: him up out of a lineup. But he's like one
Speaker 1: of the like minions, hair Minions, hair sniffing minions, a
Speaker 1: new trope when he started when he jumped in the
Speaker 1: race car because I guess he's also Tim Curry's hired
Speaker 1: race car driver, right, and then Cameron Diaz went after him.
Speaker 1: Drew Barry was more straight. It was like, you don't
Speaker 1: have to chase him. He's in a circle. But it's like, yes,
Speaker 1: why is this happening. He's not going anywhere, He's just
Speaker 1: practicing for the big race, right. But then they do
Speaker 1: go off the track into traffic a bridge that looks
Speaker 1: like it's a bridge in San Francisco, but they're all
Speaker 1: in l A. I don't know what bridge this would
Speaker 1: be and why there's no traffic on it right. Well,
Speaker 1: to your point, Jamie, another thing I really like about
Speaker 1: this movie, especially as it pertains to like kind of
Speaker 1: the action and the fighting and all that, is that
Speaker 1: we get to see a woman participate in a chase
Speaker 1: scene being the driver, and then she plays essentially a
Speaker 1: game of chicken with this bad guy and she wins,
Speaker 1: and he flipped her over her car unaffected. She does
Speaker 1: win by basically magic, but she wins. Nonetheless. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was like, I guess let's just get out what we like,
Speaker 1: because yeah, I want to talk about that there was
Speaker 1: but it is, I mean, it is cool that it's
Speaker 1: kind of like baked into the premise that they're all
Speaker 1: like they're gonna win obviously, and that's like not always,
Speaker 1: like you know, that's rare for you know, women to
Speaker 1: get to be in action movies at all, much less
Speaker 1: be the winners the main characters. I mean, it's right,
Speaker 1: we can come on one maybe two hands, the action
Speaker 1: franchises that have women as the protagonists that also like
Speaker 1: performed super well at the box office, and like this
Speaker 1: is this feels like a sort of like a like
Speaker 1: weird to revisit step of sort of progress sometimes in
Speaker 1: some ways. Um. But the other thing that I liked
Speaker 1: because I was worried at the end where they're all
Speaker 1: fighting in the climactic battle sequence where there's too many
Speaker 1: fights to keep track of and I can't tell a
Speaker 1: lot of like Crispin Glover and Sam Rockwell, I honestly
Speaker 1: was having trouble at some point, like who's um but
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore Dylan. She gets kind of damseled for a
Speaker 1: little bit, but then she frees herself and kills them
Speaker 1: all with a chair, and so like even that they
Speaker 1: like kind of dodged the damseling one of the heroes
Speaker 1: at the end, so I thought that was cool too.
Speaker 1: She also gets a nice cathartic moment where she was
Speaker 1: wronged and lied to and used by Sam Rockwell sunglasses,
Speaker 1: and then she gets a nice moment of being able
Speaker 1: to beat the ship out of him before he explodes
Speaker 1: and dies, and yeah, she really does get her revenge.
Speaker 1: And then she's like, well, back to Tom Green, you know.
Speaker 1: And then the character who is actually the most damseled
Speaker 1: is Bosley, so that was a nice change of pace.
Speaker 1: And then then yeah, and he doesn't. And it's like
Speaker 1: it's nice because I feel like that's another like thing
Speaker 1: that I don't even know how consciously they're doing it,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it would have been very easy
Speaker 1: to write that character of like I can't believe I'm
Speaker 1: being saved by all lady. This is so emasculable. The
Speaker 1: Bill Murray's like, thank you, just like you are clearly
Speaker 1: more skilled than I am. Please help me. So I
Speaker 1: was like, all right, that's you know, it's like there
Speaker 1: are there are like kernels of good stuff going on here,
Speaker 1: and it is fun to watch as fucking confusing and
Speaker 1: misogynist as and like you know, like current problematic on
Speaker 1: every single level. It's just there's just so there's so
Speaker 1: much happening that you can't even when I don't know
Speaker 1: what's going on, I can't look away, right. Yeah it
Speaker 1: is fun. Yeah, it just looks it's fun. It's silly.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of like a ton of explosions, lots
Speaker 1: of lots of like joke e like sexual and nuendo
Speaker 1: jokes where you know, Cameron Diaz is like, oh, I
Speaker 1: signed that waiver so you can stick it in my
Speaker 1: slot anytime, which you know, brings us to some of
Speaker 1: the things that perhaps are not great about this. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're getting into it. Well, is there anything else that
Speaker 1: anyone thought was particularly well done? I liked the soundtracktndtrack
Speaker 1: is fun because there it's a dustin these child songs
Speaker 1: written for this movie Independent Woman Part one. But also
Speaker 1: there is a song during the fight scene in the
Speaker 1: alleyway with the thin man um the lyrics of which
Speaker 1: are smack my bitch up. And I think that also
Speaker 1: might be the name of the song. So maybe the
Speaker 1: thin Man's the bitch. Maybe you know what, I didn't
Speaker 1: think of that. We'll take it. Yeah, it's a fun song. Though,
Speaker 1: it's a fun song Okay, So where do we dive in?
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe the beginning where Drew Barrymore's in
Speaker 1: disguise is LL cool Jack. Yeah, that's let's start at
Speaker 1: the beginning. How do we I definitely didn't remember that,
Speaker 1: didn't see it coming and was like slack jaw. The
Speaker 1: way these three characters are introduced, it's like gets progressively worse,
Speaker 1: where it's like Cameron Diaz is you know, she's in
Speaker 1: a bikini and like, all right, great, and then Lucy
Speaker 1: Luke gets this comically long. She's like shaking her hair
Speaker 1: out for take off her helmets, and the whips her
Speaker 1: hair back and forth, and then you're like, where's Drew
Speaker 1: Barrymore att? And then you're like, no, what. I actually
Speaker 1: did remember this from when I first watched the movie,
Speaker 1: and as is happening, I was like, oh damn, I
Speaker 1: guess I was okay with it when I first when
Speaker 1: I first saw this, and now I'm like, this is
Speaker 1: really crazy. Yeah. Not only is the L cool j
Speaker 1: a black man, but also an African man with like
Speaker 1: decinta cloth and then even his parachute is matching his
Speaker 1: African garb. Everything every inch of fabric on this man
Speaker 1: was quote unquote African garb and I don't even think
Speaker 1: he tried to do an accent, because why it's already
Speaker 1: I don't think he did. Are already disguise. The disguises
Speaker 1: are just I mean, there's not a good one in
Speaker 1: the bunch that was That was alarming. I'm like what yeah, what, yes,
Speaker 1: And that's not the last time that Drew Barrymore specifically
Speaker 1: jeez later in brown brown face. Yes there, so yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll get to that in a moment. Just to close
Speaker 1: the conversation on the extremely bizarre L cool J mask
Speaker 1: disguise scenario, The way that reveal happens is that like
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore as LL cool J has like grabbed this
Speaker 1: guy and they've jumped out of a plane together because
Speaker 1: he has a bomb strapped to him, this this bad guy,
Speaker 1: and which he just shows He's like where the bomb? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And then the bad guys like what plane is this?
Speaker 1: Very luxurious couches in the first class. I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know a lot of first classes and that
Speaker 1: I've never seen a plane like that. Next level, there's
Speaker 1: also that racist flight tendant who's like, there's no way
Speaker 1: you could be in first class, just like, thank god,
Speaker 1: you know, I guess some progress here. They're trying to
Speaker 1: show like, even though this is a white woman inside
Speaker 1: of a black body, this person still deserves right. That
Speaker 1: same flight attendant a few minutes earlier was like, it's
Speaker 1: not the seats that have gotten smaller, it's that your
Speaker 1: ass has gotten bigger. He's like making fun. He's like
Speaker 1: fat shaming this woman. Who I guess he's complaining. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like one of the first lines that's spoken in
Speaker 1: the movie. Didn't he get blown up? He never comes back.
Speaker 1: I was like, maybe he'll come back and he'll get
Speaker 1: you know, blown up. But this bad guy who has
Speaker 1: a bomb strapped to him, he's like, who are you people?
Speaker 1: You crazy bastard? And then llo cool J takes out
Speaker 1: the voice modifying device and then it's Drew Barrymore's voice
Speaker 1: and she says, I think you mean crazy bitch woman
Speaker 1: woman because he's a woman. She's not a bastard, she's
Speaker 1: a bit. This is like the I mean this like
Speaker 1: movie totally and we've talked about this on the show before,
Speaker 1: but just like that very bizarre late nineties early two thousands,
Speaker 1: like catchphrase based feminism that is based in nothing. It
Speaker 1: stands for nothing, and it's so jarring to see now,
Speaker 1: like actually, I'm a crazy bitch. And then she takes
Speaker 1: off La cool J's face Space You're this is also
Speaker 1: this is I used to one of my favorite movies,
Speaker 1: troublingly used to be the Master of Disguise, Dana Carvey
Speaker 1: Vehicle two thousand two, his last starring vehicle, and that
Speaker 1: is like the rubber face masks of celebrities thing was
Speaker 1: just like a very strong trend during this the first
Speaker 1: Bush administration. It was just scary free open season. Then
Speaker 1: a few scenes after this, we have the massa j
Speaker 1: parlor scene where Lucy lou is massaging Tim Curry. Hate that,
Speaker 1: don't like it. And then Drew and Cameron come in
Speaker 1: and the way they are dressed and the music que
Speaker 1: that happens when they show up is like just like
Speaker 1: full blown Japanese culture appropriation. And there's also a song
Speaker 1: that happens after the music que, the lyrics of which
Speaker 1: are turning I think I'm turning Japanese, which not to
Speaker 1: not to like ring a dang a little bell on anyone.
Speaker 1: But Kirsten Dunced weirdly did a cover of that horrible
Speaker 1: song like it was like Tenure, but it's still that
Speaker 1: song has a weird, troubled legacy of being sung by
Speaker 1: white people constantly that yeah, that's the and this is Jamie,
Speaker 1: as you pointed out, not the only time that these
Speaker 1: white women, Cameron and Drew Um dress in a very
Speaker 1: appropriative garb. Because in a later scene, Lucy and Cameron
Speaker 1: are like belly dancing in a scene that's appropriating Indian culture,
Speaker 1: and then no one in the scene is Indian. And
Speaker 1: then Drew Barrymore in brown face walks into the scene
Speaker 1: picks up a bottle with the dude's fingerprints on it.
Speaker 1: Why why it was her face actually brown or she
Speaker 1: has brown makeup? It's only her. It's it's very busy
Speaker 1: like and I think it is like also telling that
Speaker 1: no one talked about it or cared when this movie
Speaker 1: came out, that there's just like Drew Barrymore, very famous actor,
Speaker 1: producer of the movie, in full on brown face for
Speaker 1: a whole scene and just everyone's like, yep, I think
Speaker 1: they probably have like a board of like what environments
Speaker 1: can these girls look hot? And then they went backwards
Speaker 1: from there, right, they were verse engineered it from there
Speaker 1: because like, yeah, when they showed up to one of
Speaker 1: the scientists house, who those guys they had access to
Speaker 1: the vault or something, so they're like, we're now a
Speaker 1: yodeling telegram and we'll say yodels to this guy to
Speaker 1: get his eyeballs information. It did seem like, yeah, like
Speaker 1: it was all a ploy to get them into different
Speaker 1: like revealing outfits with no consideration given to like the
Speaker 1: culture they were absolutely because it was like that's the
Speaker 1: only way you can get this information. You can't like, yeah,
Speaker 1: astronaut German Diaz is a jeopardy genius. Like they're smart
Speaker 1: or at least that's how we don't see that the
Speaker 1: ways that they're like getting information or advancing this story
Speaker 1: and their mission is truly like d activating men by
Speaker 1: their looks. Yes, it's appropriating other cultures in an extremely
Speaker 1: racist way most of the time. And or it is seduction.
Speaker 1: So the seduction thing. Yeah, And I mean even the
Speaker 1: fact that like Lucy lu I think is like written
Speaker 1: into that massage parlor scene in the first place is
Speaker 1: very lazy and telling, like it's a movie written by
Speaker 1: three white guys and it's super shows perfect, right. The
Speaker 1: crazy parlors. Yeah, like, let's do the laziest thing we
Speaker 1: can think of, and then it's not it's not good.
Speaker 1: It's more on the seduction aspect of the you know,
Speaker 1: attempts to get what they want. Where to begin, there's
Speaker 1: a lot, Yes, it's all of them. And we have
Speaker 1: talked about this a lot on the podcast, where on
Speaker 1: one hand, if women can use their sexuality to get
Speaker 1: things that they want, particularly from straight men, great because
Speaker 1: for a long time, the way the world was set up,
Speaker 1: that was pretty much one of the only tools women
Speaker 1: had that they're just bosal to get results. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, uh, this movie had the opportunity to show
Speaker 1: women doing other things and using other tactics besides their
Speaker 1: sexuality to get what they want, like their brains and
Speaker 1: their fighting skills and things like that, their ability to
Speaker 1: fly into space, super genius powers, and we see a
Speaker 1: little bit of it throughout the movie. But I was
Speaker 1: truly shocked by how often they use their sexuality to
Speaker 1: get what they want, because it's which does seem like
Speaker 1: it from what I know of it. That's also like
Speaker 1: a staple of the Teacher Show that this movie just
Speaker 1: elects to not update in any way. And possibly make worse. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like that that whole It's bizarre because we are given
Speaker 1: like these kind of cool facts about these very underwritten characters,
Speaker 1: and then instead of ever finding out, like, for example,
Speaker 1: why they work for Charlie, will qualifies them to work
Speaker 1: for Charlie? How did they get huch with Charlie? Here's
Speaker 1: Bill Murray fit into all of this? Like what exactly
Speaker 1: are their job qualifications? And like, but they just derail
Speaker 1: the plot of the movie regularly to just show a
Speaker 1: series of dates that they're on, Like every twenty minutes
Speaker 1: you just see all three of them on a date. Ye.
Speaker 1: I was like, it's also like if they're working, they
Speaker 1: shouldn't have time for that, right, I have time to
Speaker 1: be going on a date or making dinner for their
Speaker 1: man or whatever is Yeah, like making dinner for matt
Speaker 1: LeBlanc between scenes, Like what they It's like, that's the
Speaker 1: identity you chose? This is our secret identity is being
Speaker 1: a bikini actor girlfriend to a actor actor and she
Speaker 1: lives on set with him in a trailer and she's
Speaker 1: sucking genius. So like, why I'm glad you brought all
Speaker 1: this up because the movie for some reason sets aside
Speaker 1: time for all three of the Angels to have a
Speaker 1: romantic storyline. I think I know the s um Well.
Speaker 1: It might interest you to know that when this movie
Speaker 1: was originally pitched, apparently there were no romantic subplots, but
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore, one of the producers of the film, decided
Speaker 1: that she wanted to include love interests for all three
Speaker 1: of the angels um and that they were added so
Speaker 1: that the women watching this movie could live vicariously through
Speaker 1: these characters who were having it all. You underestimated us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I can only understand these kick ask women if they're
Speaker 1: having boy problems. I'm having boy problems. So if they're
Speaker 1: not having boy problems, who are they? That's such a
Speaker 1: that's such a bummer. I mean, I would imagine Drew
Speaker 1: feels differently these days. That's always such a bummer to
Speaker 1: hear where you're like, it wasn't even make g who
Speaker 1: insisted not like it's so easy to throw make under
Speaker 1: the bus. Now, I'll play Devil's advocate for just a moment.
Speaker 1: In in that when we see female protagonists in movies
Speaker 1: with demanding jobs like the ones that the Angels have,
Speaker 1: we often see like they're romantic and personal lives suffering
Speaker 1: as a result. So the fact that they do have,
Speaker 1: like I'm not saying I'm for it, but the fact
Speaker 1: that we see them on screen, I guess having it all,
Speaker 1: but like it bugged me. Yes, but I was also like, okay,
Speaker 1: it's two thousand, Well that's I get what you're saying.
Speaker 1: And also it is also nice to see that it's
Speaker 1: not interfering with their work, because I don't other than
Speaker 1: the like the same Rockwell relationship thing, but that they're
Speaker 1: still able to have a personal life right and be
Speaker 1: really good at their jobs at the same time. Yes,
Speaker 1: the fact that it is three hetero romances that for
Speaker 1: the most part don't have anything to do with the
Speaker 1: main storyline except for the Sam Rockwell Drew Barrymore one. Yes,
Speaker 1: it's perhaps not the best writing. It's really guys, it's
Speaker 1: really bad writing. I was like, now, hold on, it
Speaker 1: is very poorly. I wouldn't be as annoyed at the
Speaker 1: constant derailing to go see Matt LeBlanc on yet another
Speaker 1: day with his girlfriend he knows nothing about if we
Speaker 1: knew anything about Lucy Lu's character, but I guess just
Speaker 1: you don't know anything about And then it's so like
Speaker 1: so lazy where it's like, yeah, technically we see them
Speaker 1: do stuff, but it's like in montage where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess Cameron Diaz knows how to clone people. Oh
Speaker 1: I thought she was just on Jeopardy, But I guess
Speaker 1: she knows how to clone people. And they're just oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: she clones a hand or something, or like three D
Speaker 1: printers of hand, three D prints a man's hand four
Speaker 1: or three D printers were even invent right, she's again
Speaker 1: ahead of the curve, and then it's just like cut
Speaker 1: to a scene of her being like how do I
Speaker 1: call Luke Wilson? You're like, come on, man, I was
Speaker 1: so like, I so much time used to see, like
Speaker 1: is she going to fund this waiter? Like yeah, their
Speaker 1: choices and men are also like I mean Tom Green
Speaker 1: special time. I mean again, maybe he's a nice person.
Speaker 1: Maybe he's a great guy. I don't know. He won
Speaker 1: an award for this movie, but it was for worst
Speaker 1: person in a movie that's very funny. Well it was bad.
Speaker 1: It was clearly like, oh, they're fucking so that's why
Speaker 1: he's in this movie. They met on set. Yeah, Oh
Speaker 1: I thought he was in the movie, Like as a favor,
Speaker 1: Like she was like, we can't do this with my boyfriend.
Speaker 1: And I thought it was like how Carson and Tara did,
Speaker 1: Like how Carson Daly's and Josie and the Puss. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: it's they met on this set. Open then why was
Speaker 1: that scene even there? He was so weird so long
Speaker 1: because they were like, he's a comedian, let him impervise.
Speaker 1: But it was like he just fell into the water.
Speaker 1: He just and then and then when he comes back,
Speaker 1: I was like, I was extremely unrape came back. I
Speaker 1: was like, how dare this? And then it's implied like
Speaker 1: they're gonna end up together. You're like, boat guys, you're
Speaker 1: gonna end up with this guy? Okay? Like I found
Speaker 1: the romantic supplets to be like very frustrating because there's
Speaker 1: like the ingredients to so much cool stuff and it's
Speaker 1: just constantly just distraction from Definitely it's hard enough to
Speaker 1: understand what's going on. And then I was like, is
Speaker 1: Luke Wilson involved? No, he's just taking up room. In
Speaker 1: this take. He takes her to a Soul Train show,
Speaker 1: where there's another weird racially charged scene where Cameron Diaz
Speaker 1: is dancing to baby got back. The rest of the
Speaker 1: crowd is predominantly black, and they're just like all staring
Speaker 1: at her, being like, what the fuck is this white
Speaker 1: girl doing? And then they, like for no reason at all,
Speaker 1: start to like get on board with what never minding,
Speaker 1: and then she like wins the crowd over, and it's like,
Speaker 1: what are you trying to say with this? What's happened?
Speaker 1: I get it. It's white women can in racism by
Speaker 1: shaking their ass. Yes, that's correct, we can all be
Speaker 1: brought together the enthusiasm of a of a blonde white woman.
Speaker 1: There's I'm like, who insisted on that scene being there?
Speaker 1: I just that was so unnecess They kind of gone
Speaker 1: to dinner. Yeah, that that well, it is like all
Speaker 1: the dates except for the Sam Rockwell dates. Nothing, there's
Speaker 1: no Well, that's I guess a payoff of a scene
Speaker 1: that's planted earlier where Cameron Diaz has a dream that
Speaker 1: she's like dancing and then she wakes up and she okay,
Speaker 1: So there's a minister reason to have Cameron Diaz without
Speaker 1: pants at the beginning. Absolutely none of it is justified,
Speaker 1: and it's all horribly written, but this is the movie's
Speaker 1: justification why it's in But yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: that speaks a lot to again, these these characters being
Speaker 1: so under written because we the things we do know
Speaker 1: about them are like usually told in montage like you mentioned,
Speaker 1: and or they're just inconsistent and weird and don't pay
Speaker 1: off in any meaningful way. I still don't have a
Speaker 1: grasp on like what each of their specialty is. Like
Speaker 1: I think Cameron Diaz seems to be the one who
Speaker 1: like drives. If there's a driving thing, she's the driver flips,
Speaker 1: but then she she flips, but then she also sometimes
Speaker 1: like does some like tech photo enhancement stuff, and then
Speaker 1: she's a computer. But Lucy lou also does a bunch
Speaker 1: of that too, and then she also does some like
Speaker 1: bomb wire. She's really good at wires. That's like, I
Speaker 1: almost that almost made sense to me because I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: because space technology, because space, because she's engineering things could
Speaker 1: be and then space and horses. Oh. Also back to
Speaker 1: Lucy lew and Mala long relationship. Even Matt la Blanc
Speaker 1: didn't want to know more information about her because when
Speaker 1: she was like, look, I'm not who I say I am.
Speaker 1: I'm not actually a bikini wax there and he's like, oh, bummer,
Speaker 1: I thought I thought that was pretty hot. And then
Speaker 1: and then and she's she's like, now I have to go.
Speaker 1: And then there's no follow up questions. He's not like
Speaker 1: where are you going? He's like, oh, I guess you're
Speaker 1: going to Charlie. So it's also like he knew about
Speaker 1: Charlie the whole time, but didn't know who he was.
Speaker 1: Did you think Charlie was managing the I think so
Speaker 1: she's like, important bikini wax business. I gotta go meet
Speaker 1: up with Charlie. He's like, okay. He also thinks like
Speaker 1: he also gets weirdly threatened at the beginning. She's like, Charlie,
Speaker 1: that's a chip, right, that's a chip. And then she's
Speaker 1: like I don't know, You're like what you're This is
Speaker 1: not a good relationship for either of you. This is bad.
Speaker 1: There there's just so much and like Lucy Lou like
Speaker 1: she like neggs herself in the first like it's just
Speaker 1: the way they're written is bananas, Like the the she
Speaker 1: negs herself in the opening scene because she accidentally slips
Speaker 1: up and says something smart in front of matt le
Speaker 1: Blanc was like did you know that? And she was like,
Speaker 1: it's crazy what you can learn on the internet, and
Speaker 1: then he sounds like, I'm smarter have any information about
Speaker 1: my backstory at all. And he's relieved by that reveal,
Speaker 1: and he's like, okay, cool, kiss kiss Oh can I okay?
Speaker 1: These are I'm just my notes are chaotic for this one.
Speaker 1: The like the movie the scene where okay, so this
Speaker 1: is a scene with Sam rock Ball and not Crispin Glover.
Speaker 1: Maybe you know it's the it's the date that Dylan
Speaker 1: goes on where they talk about her daddy issues that. Okay,
Speaker 1: that makes sense, so that was um, so what happens
Speaker 1: in this scene it's one of the date scenes, but
Speaker 1: the twist is it has bearing on the plot. Um.
Speaker 1: What happens is they're like on a date and then
Speaker 1: he asks her, shockingly a little about herself and she says, well,
Speaker 1: my mom died when I was young. I never met
Speaker 1: my dad. And then he immediately was like, oh, so
Speaker 1: that's probably why you work for an old man that
Speaker 1: you've never seen, which is so aggressive, and she doesn't
Speaker 1: doesn't react to it at all, and then he knocks
Speaker 1: over a scrabble board and she's like, wow, this guy
Speaker 1: is cool. Then she tries to leave and she's like,
Speaker 1: I have to go. I have to go work for
Speaker 1: my Like he just is like, oh, daddy issues. Awesome,
Speaker 1: let's cook up. Like he confirms she has daddy issues
Speaker 1: and then is like cool, clear for landing for Sam Rockwell,
Speaker 1: but then she has to go and then he kind
Speaker 1: of like baby, it's cold outsides her and it's like, wait,
Speaker 1: what about the shaking bag? Shaking bag product placement? God
Speaker 1: knows how much money they spent in that. I hope
Speaker 1: that like there because he's like, oh, we got to
Speaker 1: make the shaking bag, and then she's like, what if
Speaker 1: we just did shake? But don't forget He suggests that
Speaker 1: she is the one who does the baking because women
Speaker 1: be bacon bacan. They had to get every everything in
Speaker 1: in this. It was so I wonder if Shaken Big
Speaker 1: had to pay more because they end up sucking as
Speaker 1: a result of the product. This, this product will make
Speaker 1: you fuck commercial. We've got to take a quick break,
Speaker 1: but we'll be back for more discussion. Hi, Charlie. Speaking
Speaker 1: of Charlie, just a little bit more about him. The
Speaker 1: Angels relationship with Charlie. Like they've never met him, He's
Speaker 1: always watching them, and yeah, it's like this weird, voyeuristic
Speaker 1: god like like I'm going to control you. You're never
Speaker 1: allowed to meet me. We can only communicate through this
Speaker 1: other man who's a liaison between us, who will also
Speaker 1: treat you weird, yes, who will treat you Because they're
Speaker 1: all cuddling in that first on his shoulder like he's
Speaker 1: like lady drawing on them, putting his hands on their
Speaker 1: knees and stuff like that. Also not a good look
Speaker 1: for Bill Murray, who already has um. I mean, just
Speaker 1: look up his domestic abuse record. I don't know. I'm
Speaker 1: not a fan. I also just think he should not
Speaker 1: go to people's weddings and he's a fucking weirdo. But
Speaker 1: that's just me. You weren't invited, don't go my favorite thing.
Speaker 1: He's making it better disruptive, get out. I paid a
Speaker 1: lot of money for each guest to be here, and
Speaker 1: I'd be like, this is my day, and then dare
Speaker 1: you I'm the Bill Murray of my wedding. But anyway,
Speaker 1: these characters are written to be obsessed with Charlie, like
Speaker 1: they're in what the dynamic of this relationship. It feels
Speaker 1: like vaguely gas light e border lines. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Something was very weird about this dynamic. But they're like,
Speaker 1: we love you, Charlie, You're the best. Charlie's like you
Speaker 1: don't even know him. That's one of the qualifications that
Speaker 1: why they were chosen. They all have daddy issues. We
Speaker 1: learn about Trus it's so the daddy issues, Like it's
Speaker 1: so annoying and I like. But the thing that I
Speaker 1: think makes me like that was the like weirdest or
Speaker 1: felt the weirdest is like, yes, Charlie is like this old,
Speaker 1: mysterious guy who's addicted to controlling young hot women. He
Speaker 1: has framed photos of them in his home. Feeling very
Speaker 1: safe about all of this. But the fact that they
Speaker 1: don't question it at all, and they like just don't
Speaker 1: like they don't they're just horny. They're just like a low,
Speaker 1: simmering horny. For the predicament, it seems like of like
Speaker 1: I don't know, which I know is a carryover from
Speaker 1: the seventies, but it's just I don't know. Anytime they're like,
Speaker 1: well that's what the show is, like, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: it's an adaptation. You can do stuff. Well that show
Speaker 1: was damaging, and uh, yeah, you can update stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the show was was I think often criticized for being
Speaker 1: jiggle TV, which was basically just emphasizing the sex appeal
Speaker 1: of the female leads, which is like a reason for
Speaker 1: them to like run. It's like Baywatch is a later
Speaker 1: version of it, which is not an issue that's corrected
Speaker 1: in this movie at all. There's, like I mean, in
Speaker 1: the in the the weird soul train scene, there's a
Speaker 1: ton of slow mo Cameron Diaz, I made a list
Speaker 1: of all of the extremely unnecessary, usually male gaze shots
Speaker 1: in the beginning. We already talked about this little bit,
Speaker 1: but Lucy Lou taking off her helmet and whipping her
Speaker 1: hair around in slow motion, and then another completely random
Speaker 1: and unnecessary shot a few moments later where she takes
Speaker 1: off a fencing helmet in one of the flashbacks and
Speaker 1: whips her hair around again, and then later she tells
Speaker 1: Cameron Diaz to do it. She's like, whip your god
Speaker 1: her hair, which is another time they interrupt the scene
Speaker 1: to flirt. Is so annoying, like Wilson, get you out
Speaker 1: your work. This one we already touched on as well,
Speaker 1: But Cameron Diaz dancing around in her underwear in her
Speaker 1: house and then opening up the door for a package
Speaker 1: delivery in her underwear chaotic, stupid, Yeah, and then saying
Speaker 1: you can feel free to stick things in my slot
Speaker 1: and that's supposed to be, you know, a hilarious joke.
Speaker 1: And then she runs into her own door, yes, and
Speaker 1: is unaware of the where her house is in relation
Speaker 1: to where she's standing. Yes, basical awareness goes all out
Speaker 1: the door because of the cups man, which would make
Speaker 1: her probably a bad spy fighter person. But she's really
Speaker 1: so I don't know, flip do backflips and not just
Speaker 1: the floor for a two point five seconds or whatever
Speaker 1: it is and go into that vault. Why why can't
Speaker 1: she walk into her house? But with these it's just
Speaker 1: they try to get, especially Cameron Diaz, naked as much
Speaker 1: as possible, as early as possible. Although there's that scene
Speaker 1: where like Drew Barrymore is like needlessly naked as she's
Speaker 1: like dangling from Yeah, and then she like walks into
Speaker 1: that house with those little boys. I hate scenes like
Speaker 1: that where they're like, oh, now the kids are horny
Speaker 1: too interesting. You're like, no, I don't. I think it's
Speaker 1: it's also like still people are like little boys seeing
Speaker 1: adult women bodies is funny and not traumatic. They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's like a hilarious boys would love that, as opposed
Speaker 1: to like this is actually maybe going to affect them
Speaker 1: they're older. Good grief. Here's a few more on my list.
Speaker 1: J yeah, jiggle TV baby um. The shot of Lucy
Speaker 1: lose Ass as she crawls Overdrew in the car to
Speaker 1: fix the intercom at the drive through. Yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: shot of Lucy lose Ass again in a leather skirt.
Speaker 1: Sound effect on that is sick. She's like, skirt. It
Speaker 1: was like, this isn't even like achieving the intended effect.
Speaker 1: Which so that brings me to the list of all
Speaker 1: the times where the Angels use seduction as a technique
Speaker 1: to get what they want, which again I feel it's
Speaker 1: every two seconds, far too often, and it's always like
Speaker 1: immediately after they've just done something that you're like, oh
Speaker 1: that was pretty cool, Like it was right after that
Speaker 1: huge fight scene where you're like, wow, this is awesome,
Speaker 1: and then it's a dating seduction montage right right right,
Speaker 1: Because there's a one where Lucy Lou pretends to be
Speaker 1: an efficiency expert. She's dressed as a dominatrixes with the
Speaker 1: with a whip, and then she comes in and smacks
Speaker 1: her whip around and it makes all the computer programmer
Speaker 1: dudes all horny, and then she like plays kind of
Speaker 1: a dits at the end of that scene where she's like,
Speaker 1: can anyone like show me what you're talking about? And
Speaker 1: then that leaves Drew and Cameron who are dressed as
Speaker 1: men in this scene, which like that worked for me, okay,
Speaker 1: but then they then that's when Cameron diaz Um you know,
Speaker 1: gets shrubs completely, yeah, right, and you know, flips around
Speaker 1: in the vault, which is also funny because they're like,
Speaker 1: she needs to be invisible, and she puts on this
Speaker 1: white suit, but you can still see her eyes and
Speaker 1: her like the flesh on her face, and she eyes
Speaker 1: the camera, looks directly in the camera the one part
Speaker 1: of skin that is on her that you can see. Look,
Speaker 1: what's that right in the lens of the camera, And
Speaker 1: it's like, Hi, god, dude, dude, did it just keeps
Speaker 1: going at the feast the whole purpose of what you
Speaker 1: were doing. So whoever watched it gonna be like I
Speaker 1: see floating eyes, I guess. And then the vault opened
Speaker 1: by itself, we should probably investigate. So bizarre. And then
Speaker 1: there's the scene where Drew Barrymore's character distracts the man
Speaker 1: who's in Corwin's car while Lucy breaks into the trunk.
Speaker 1: But like, but she's like in a fully unzipped race
Speaker 1: car suit and she's like, she's like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'm like, what what you went to like police academy
Speaker 1: or something kind of. I don't know if she also
Speaker 1: licked the steering wheel, which is so nasty because that's
Speaker 1: like so many hand germs. He's probably not the only
Speaker 1: driver of that car, probably not, didn't seem like a
Speaker 1: clean man. It's just like steering wheel. I was like,
Speaker 1: bye bye, so weird. Yeah, And then the costuming also
Speaker 1: so like they are private investigator detective spot. I don't
Speaker 1: even know what their role is exactly, but they're doing
Speaker 1: a lot of like covert operations. They are like fighting
Speaker 1: and flipping around a lot, and yet they're in outfits
Speaker 1: most of the time where almost their entire chants exposed,
Speaker 1: and it's like if you do one flip, your tips
Speaker 1: are out there, slow out and they're even when they
Speaker 1: were like scuba diving, where they were like swimming up
Speaker 1: to whatever the island was where Sam Rockwell had Bosley
Speaker 1: Like Cameron Diaz scuba gear was like open to her
Speaker 1: mom's pupis Like it was so open, and I was like,
Speaker 1: how did I keep you that? The name is inefficient?
Speaker 1: Same thing when she's undercover as a waitress and every
Speaker 1: other like every other person working there is wearing a
Speaker 1: normal outfit and she's got again all the way like
Speaker 1: down and and then she's like ha ha, like I'm
Speaker 1: really blending in, but you're not. You look foolish. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, like, if you want to expose your skin,
Speaker 1: embrace your sexuality, beautiful, we're all for that. But to
Speaker 1: do that when you're also trying to like accomplish us
Speaker 1: covert spy mission and you're fighting a bunch and your
Speaker 1: boobs are going to get in the way doesn't track.
Speaker 1: I just want to a movie where whatever woman is
Speaker 1: in charge is like, oh, I'm about to fight. Let
Speaker 1: me get my ponytail holder out, put my hair back,
Speaker 1: getting out my face, because to take these heels off,
Speaker 1: because that's not gonna make me run faster but my
Speaker 1: clothes but not mine. But yeah, let me get fight mode,
Speaker 1: as opposed to like, let me be the sexiest thing
Speaker 1: ever and then get to it second hair whipping sequence
Speaker 1: just exhausting. Was there was there more? Um, I think
Speaker 1: we've already covered everything else in terms of the like
Speaker 1: male Gaze seduction, there was There was one line that
Speaker 1: Drew Barrymore has been she it's been Sam rockwell first betrays,
Speaker 1: which is also a very funny scene to me because
Speaker 1: I think that maybe at some point in the production
Speaker 1: or writing process they realized that maybe the movie was
Speaker 1: really confusing, because there's that whole shot where the camera
Speaker 1: is circling Drew Barrymore and she's basically like explaining what
Speaker 1: has happened for the past and she's like, so that
Speaker 1: person wasn't who I thought it was, was it? And
Speaker 1: Sam Rock was like no, and she's like, and I
Speaker 1: guess that other person wasn't who I thought they were.
Speaker 1: And he's like no, and she's like, and then I
Speaker 1: would deduce that you are also not who I thought
Speaker 1: you were and he's like no. Camera makes like three
Speaker 1: full revolutions around her. But in that scene she is
Speaker 1: on a quote unquote date with him, but then she
Speaker 1: like makes this bizarre joke about She's like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: a full service pert, like implying that anytime she's a spy,
Speaker 1: she's also having sex with the people she's spying on.
Speaker 1: It was a weird joke. Uh, can we talk about Vivian.
Speaker 1: I have mixed feelings on Vivian. I, on one hand,
Speaker 1: was kind of expecting Vivian to just kind of be
Speaker 1: left there, to just kind of not do anything. I
Speaker 1: like that she at least turned out to be relevant.
Speaker 1: Sure a plot, but she is also I mean, the
Speaker 1: seduction trope is alive, and while she has a Rufie's
Speaker 1: bill murray um, which is very villainous. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know it was. I'm still I think I'm just
Speaker 1: like still confused. But I don't know exactly what she wanted,
Speaker 1: but I'm glad she turned out to be important. Yeah,
Speaker 1: her motivations were not clear, but depending on the circumstances,
Speaker 1: I usually appreciate a female villain. You know, her character
Speaker 1: was not necessarily well developed, but but nor was anyone.
Speaker 1: She wasn't singled out. She was Sam's business partner and
Speaker 1: also love her or girlfriend or wife, kept being like mean,
Speaker 1: kept being like my lady or my girl in references,
Speaker 1: Vivian to find the relationship is the relationship, and then
Speaker 1: he kissed her on the neck, but then she also
Speaker 1: fully let him fux somebody else, so they're both and
Speaker 1: we don't they chose not to define it for the movie,
Speaker 1: and maybe it doesn't need a definition. Yeah, maybe that's
Speaker 1: where just being normal. Do you think then maybe so
Speaker 1: this is me kind of thinking through this in real time,
Speaker 1: But do you think Drew Barrymore's character is sort of
Speaker 1: like subtly or like inadvertently slut shamed because she does
Speaker 1: have sex with a villain, and then that puts her
Speaker 1: in a position where she's like, oops, I didn't notice
Speaker 1: that he was the bad guy because I was too
Speaker 1: busy like sucking. The villain's definitely slept shame her like you,
Speaker 1: silly girl. I knew what happened, of course, And he's
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, at least you were a good lay.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going to kill your friends and your daddy.
Speaker 1: And I still understand how Drew Barrymore didn't die when
Speaker 1: he shot her in the head about whatever. I guess
Speaker 1: I wasn't in the head. They went reversed and went
Speaker 1: to Salomo. She fell backwards and then the bullet missed
Speaker 1: her head hit the window behind her and then she
Speaker 1: got naked, and she got naked for the children. Yes, okay,
Speaker 1: I did look like a hit her in that, but um,
Speaker 1: that's what we're supposed to think. But she, Yeah, she
Speaker 1: like choreographed it so that she because she wanted them
Speaker 1: to think that she was hit by the bullet complex. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but she was orchestrating this whole thing. But and I
Speaker 1: think that like kind of the villains definitely sledge Chamber.
Speaker 1: But it seems like kind of like the story does too,
Speaker 1: because they make her out to be like, oh, she's
Speaker 1: like the more sexually open. I don't know how to
Speaker 1: correctly phrase it, but like they make her out to
Speaker 1: be silly for being sexually active, and then they punish
Speaker 1: her in the story, like for having sex. The direct
Speaker 1: consequence of her having sex is that she almost gets
Speaker 1: shot in the head and all of her friends almost die.
Speaker 1: She does like, well she is she does get to
Speaker 1: redeem herself though she does. Yes, so yeah, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think the movie doesn't really know how uh it
Speaker 1: feels about it. But then she she also it's implied
Speaker 1: that she has sex with Tom Green at the beginning
Speaker 1: of the movie. Yes, so why why do they talk?
Speaker 1: Why they have a conversation that boat. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I guess I like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I suppose that she is framed as being as having
Speaker 1: multiple sexual partners, and the movie I think punishes her
Speaker 1: to some degree. But like, at least her friends are like,
Speaker 1: you silly, look what you got us into or anything
Speaker 1: like that. So they're all actively encouraging each other to
Speaker 1: have as much sex as possible. Like, stop what you're doing,
Speaker 1: keep flirting, stop them. You know, we're in the middle
Speaker 1: of the mission right now, but go and try to
Speaker 1: fuck Luke Wilson. And she's like, I'm nervous, she said,
Speaker 1: And Lucy lives like fuck him now, like flip your hair, dick.
Speaker 1: Oh what a strange movie this is. I do want
Speaker 1: to bring to everyone's attention, um that Lucy Lou was
Speaker 1: paid millions less than her white co stars were both movies. Um.
Speaker 1: I don't know the exact numbers for the first movie,
Speaker 1: but for the sequel, Full Throttle, Cameron Diaz was paid
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars, Lucy Lou paid only four million. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was that. Yes, Oh, that's so
Speaker 1: sad and if you're putting performances next to performances, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's terrible. Lucy Lose amazing. Yes, so there's some you know,
Speaker 1: standard Hollywood racism for you. In addition to the very
Speaker 1: weird ways in which she's like narrative handles um race,
Speaker 1: also behind the scenes, it's also handled horribly. Oh Jesus Christ,
Speaker 1: that I well, I guess I wanted to before we
Speaker 1: before we crop up. I guess I just wanted to
Speaker 1: take the tap of like is it necessary to? I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm in the grand sense, like cool, Elizabeth Banks
Speaker 1: is directing a movie. It's got a diverse cast, Like
Speaker 1: that's exciting, that's cool, But what story I want this again?
Speaker 1: Is there a way? I guess it's just this seems
Speaker 1: like one of the franchises, and I feel like that
Speaker 1: like most reboots where they're like, I know that women
Speaker 1: were done a wild dist service by this franchise multiple times,
Speaker 1: but we're going to give it another shot. I can't
Speaker 1: think of an example of that ever going particularly well.
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I think it's just like it's
Speaker 1: it's frustrating. I wonder if studios and Dubiz are afraid
Speaker 1: people won't see female lead action movies if it's not
Speaker 1: already a thing we are familiar with, like if it's
Speaker 1: not already attached to a superhero franchise or a reboot
Speaker 1: of something. I mean, some things have done really well,
Speaker 1: but like the things that I'm thinking, like recently are
Speaker 1: like Wonder Woman, Captain Marvel Um, like, these are things
Speaker 1: that already female those busters. Yeah, exactly. So it's like
Speaker 1: if it's a thing that's like it's its own thing,
Speaker 1: like the Charlie's thron one that came out what was
Speaker 1: it called again? That one? No? No, this is a
Speaker 1: more recent one, yeah, where she's like fighting everybody and
Speaker 1: she has like that lad of blond hairs Coolie yes,
Speaker 1: which I watched and is also very confusing. But the
Speaker 1: action action is fucking killer. It is great. But I
Speaker 1: don't know if they did that well. I don't think
Speaker 1: it did. And that's like Charlie's Theron and her peak,
Speaker 1: you know, And so I feel like there are probably
Speaker 1: people who are like, I mean, we could try, but
Speaker 1: we wouldn't make money. Here's the yes, right, here's my
Speaker 1: theory on all of this. And this is something a
Speaker 1: trend that we've noticed on the podcast is that the
Speaker 1: trajectory usually goes from there being no representation to an
Speaker 1: attempt at representation, which is usually bad uh and not
Speaker 1: nuanced at all, and then as years progress, better more
Speaker 1: nuanced representation. I think the same thing applies to just
Speaker 1: like stories overall, where like for the longest time, women
Speaker 1: didn't get to be at the helm of action franchises,
Speaker 1: and then they did get to be there, and Kenny
Speaker 1: Valley like this movie yeah, or like tomb Raider, which
Speaker 1: we talked about and when, which is like the same
Speaker 1: era sexualized woman the movie um, and then right uh,
Speaker 1: and then down the road we are getting Slash, we'll
Speaker 1: probably get more nuanced like original action franchises starring women.
Speaker 1: So I think we're still in the stage of like
Speaker 1: we're not used to blonde women are allowed to direct.
Speaker 1: Now when I've taken away from recent years is now
Speaker 1: it's like we can have several blonde directors working at
Speaker 1: any given time as long as they were already famous
Speaker 1: when they direct, and eventually brunettes then we'll have people
Speaker 1: of color. And jeez, I hate I hate that that
Speaker 1: probably tracks it's it is weird. I hope the movie
Speaker 1: is good. I'm glad it exists. It does already though
Speaker 1: it's it's like strikes me as feeling like a weird
Speaker 1: Like a couple of years from now, people will be like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess that that was just like a little shove
Speaker 1: in the right direction. But I hope that there is
Speaker 1: a you know, I feel like it just like is
Speaker 1: going to take one of those out of nowhere breakout
Speaker 1: movies that is like, oh, you can tell an original
Speaker 1: story starring a diverse cast of women. That isn't like
Speaker 1: It's like movies that are rebooted like this feel so
Speaker 1: genetically engineered to do well that they kind of just
Speaker 1: even when the people in front and in back of
Speaker 1: the camera are very talented, it just feels like it
Speaker 1: feels like a science experiment. It does, But I think
Speaker 1: we need a few of those that are going to
Speaker 1: be box office hits to show Mr. Hollywood that, yes,
Speaker 1: people will Mr Charlie, Charlie himself, can we make a
Speaker 1: movie like I don't know, how did the reboot to
Speaker 1: show that like women female lead action franchises can be
Speaker 1: box office successes, that women can direct those and still
Speaker 1: be box office successes. So we're still in this stage
Speaker 1: of like we on the battel cast or like yes,
Speaker 1: we're you know, let's move on. But I think the
Speaker 1: general movie gong population isn't quite I know. I I
Speaker 1: mean even the fact that we that it's like we
Speaker 1: have to explain like this math problem about like when
Speaker 1: are we going to have a really good movie is like, well,
Speaker 1: it doesn't seem likely we'll have a very good movie
Speaker 1: for at least ten years because men aren't ready, and
Speaker 1: they're like, I mean, yeah, I I don't know. It
Speaker 1: is I feel weirdly like weary of it. But I
Speaker 1: also yeah, but also just for the sake of a
Speaker 1: good movie, I want to see someday, I hope it
Speaker 1: does well. Same and I think it'll be far more
Speaker 1: feminist than what you would think would be more of
Speaker 1: a feminist text in this two thousand Charlie's Angels. It
Speaker 1: is still quite regressive, as we have pointed out for
Speaker 1: many reasons, but there are some like moments of like
Speaker 1: two thousand's feminism black and catchphrases written the movie, such
Speaker 1: as there's way it kind of I guess please never
Speaker 1: send a man to do a woman's job. Vivian Wood
Speaker 1: says that yeah, you're like whoa. There's a moment at
Speaker 1: the beginning where Drew Barrymore is like, well, if he
Speaker 1: is threatened by a strong woman, then you shouldn't be
Speaker 1: with him, and then they talk for another five minutes
Speaker 1: about like but how could I be with him? How
Speaker 1: can I make this week? There's Those were the two
Speaker 1: that I had, plus um Lucy Lou talking to Tim
Speaker 1: Curry being like, my hands aren't going anywhere near your staff.
Speaker 1: And then she also keeps rejecting this man at Corwin's party,
Speaker 1: being like no, no, no, and it's like we're supposed
Speaker 1: to be like whoa feminist dich And then you have
Speaker 1: one of those weird flippy moments where Vivian when she's
Speaker 1: heading on Bill Murray, whose character I other than the
Speaker 1: weird like my girls they're like vibe you get at
Speaker 1: the top where you're just like but his character was
Speaker 1: generally like pretty chilly like it was in fact I
Speaker 1: would call him mostly a dufus yeah, like he was
Speaker 1: more like he wasn't like a lecherous character. But then
Speaker 1: when Vivian comes in, she's like she kind of comes
Speaker 1: in like fuck consent, like she just like call like
Speaker 1: and then he's like, I don't know about this. We're coworkers,
Speaker 1: and she's like fucky and you're like, whoa that. He
Speaker 1: also doesn't tell her to leave. He starts a fire
Speaker 1: and pours wine. It's like, we shouldn't be doing this,
Speaker 1: but do you want wine by the fire? Yeah? That's
Speaker 1: like so much like so much of this era of movies.
Speaker 1: It's constantly it's just like the way people interact is
Speaker 1: so uncanny Valley and not. I mean it's a movie,
Speaker 1: but it's also like there's no criticism put on the
Speaker 1: guys that are like constantly aw going Charlie's Angels because
Speaker 1: they're framed and their characters are written so that it
Speaker 1: seems like that's what they want, like they want to
Speaker 1: be a stared at because and there's and and then
Speaker 1: also that like thing that the worst kind of guy
Speaker 1: will bring up of like assuming that a woman's sexuality
Speaker 1: is some sort of plot against them. This movie plays
Speaker 1: to those stereotypes hard, like, well, if she seems attracted
Speaker 1: to you, she's gonna kill you, like you steal your money. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, this is all to say that I think
Speaker 1: this reboot of Charlie's Angels it's coming out just based
Speaker 1: on the more diverse cast alone, I think will hopefully
Speaker 1: be a more like inclusive, intersectional text than what we've
Speaker 1: seen so far. Yeah, it seems like it will be.
Speaker 1: It seems like that's like a priority, which is great. Yes,
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of people will see it.
Speaker 1: I think it'll you know do My guess is that
Speaker 1: it will do fairly well at the box office. Here's
Speaker 1: hoping we'll I'll go, I'll see it twice. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: those were all my thoughts. Does anyone have any other
Speaker 1: final thoughts about the movie? Oh? Did you know they
Speaker 1: were in a band, the Angels during the credits? Oh yes,
Speaker 1: they were all playing in a band together, and we
Speaker 1: don't know why. They just were dressed like green Day
Speaker 1: maybe and oh yeah there what song? Honestly shut it
Speaker 1: off this second the movie, and that I didn't know
Speaker 1: what happened during the credit. Yeah, I got some some
Speaker 1: Josie and the Pussycats vibe, some produ typical because that
Speaker 1: was after right, Yeah, that was well, but the I
Speaker 1: mean the comic book who knows what came first will
Speaker 1: never find out. Oh yeah, yeah they're in a band,
Speaker 1: so good for them for that. The women in rock
Speaker 1: and roll, we need to see more of it. And
Speaker 1: then finally, yes, does this movie pass the backdult test?
Speaker 1: It does. I forgot to pay his close of atten
Speaker 1: is I should have because we've been on a break.
Speaker 1: I forgot how to do my job to feminism. It's hard.
Speaker 1: It's been out here being very toxic for the last one.
Speaker 1: I mean, women definitely talk to each other a lot.
Speaker 1: I got, I got a few different. I mean there's
Speaker 1: a lot of two to three line exchanges between the
Speaker 1: three angels, and usually it will divert pretty quickly. There's
Speaker 1: not full scenes. My favorite one is the scene between
Speaker 1: Melissa McCarthy and Lucy Liu. Yes, Melissa McCarthy's in this movie. Yes,
Speaker 1: she's done a huge disservice because it's two thousand and
Speaker 1: she is playing the only female employee at the place
Speaker 1: where Lucy Lee is pretending to be a dominatrix for
Speaker 1: reasons I couldn't tell you. Um and she, you know,
Speaker 1: Lucy Lee walks in and Melissa McCarthy gets a name.
Speaker 1: Her name is Doris right. She's like, yeah, I have that,
Speaker 1: you know. It's like I I have the one female
Speaker 1: coworker name. And she's like, hi, I'm Doris, I'm so
Speaker 1: excited that you're here, and Lucy Lee's like fuck wrote
Speaker 1: out like I'm not quoting it, but I'm only interested
Speaker 1: talking to the men, right and then and then Melissa
Speaker 1: McCarthy's left in the dust and she like calls after
Speaker 1: like you bitch, and the whole exchange passes because Lucy
Speaker 1: Lose like I heard that, and she likes it. She
Speaker 1: liked that she called her a bit. She's like, I
Speaker 1: was planning, she was being dominatrix. It was just being domed.
Speaker 1: So it does pass, not as much as it should,
Speaker 1: but it does pass. Also, a lot of the conversations
Speaker 1: are them talking about men, but as it relates to
Speaker 1: like their job and the mission, so like it's not
Speaker 1: men in the romantic context, it's it just happens to
Speaker 1: be about men, but they're actually talking about the mission,
Speaker 1: so I don't know, except when they're talking about dating
Speaker 1: for ton of which does happen a lot. But there
Speaker 1: are times, yeah, where it's like they're technically they're talking
Speaker 1: about work, but their work always pertains to the men. Men, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, the men in this movie are either
Speaker 1: villains or Bosley, who is a du fust and doesn't
Speaker 1: seem to be very competent at really anything, except for
Speaker 1: chewing some object into the shape of a gun. It
Speaker 1: was like or crystal or that. It was very confused. Okay,
Speaker 1: I was like, as long as that was confusing to everybody,
Speaker 1: just ye, just a gun out of a rock or something,
Speaker 1: and then never used it. It never came back. Okay.
Speaker 1: The only other man is off screen. We never see
Speaker 1: him wheel your voice except for the back of his
Speaker 1: head at the end. So yeah, I guess the men
Speaker 1: are generally the enemies in this film, to the point
Speaker 1: that we can do what we do to women two men. True, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. Yes to the Bechtel test. But the nipple scale,
Speaker 1: this is actually kind of challenged. I know. So zero
Speaker 1: to five nipples is our scale. We rate it based
Speaker 1: on its representation of women. So taking into account everything
Speaker 1: that we've discussed, including the bizarre and upsetting and offensive
Speaker 1: ways in which this movie handles things like race and
Speaker 1: you know, cultural appropriation um, the excessive use of male
Speaker 1: gaze cinematography, the underwritten female characters, the far too much
Speaker 1: emphasis on the romantic relationships. Also, just in terms of
Speaker 1: the three main characters, there's just absolutely no diversity in
Speaker 1: terms of body shape and size. They are all extremely thin,
Speaker 1: conventionally attractive women, and uh, you know, it would be
Speaker 1: nice to see more inclusion in terms of body size
Speaker 1: and shape by diversity, and especially the early two thousands
Speaker 1: is such a particularly brutal time for policing women's bodies
Speaker 1: in this way. Um, which just makes it all the
Speaker 1: more frustrating that this movie didn't do anything to support that.
Speaker 1: For sure, I would say this only it's like one
Speaker 1: and a half nipples, like great that it is like
Speaker 1: a female driven action franchise. It was this box office hit,
Speaker 1: three million budget and a two hundred sixty three million
Speaker 1: box It was very successful. Okay, so people saw it.
Speaker 1: And while it is not necessarily an inclusive and progressive
Speaker 1: feminist text, it is I know, I know, hear me out.
Speaker 1: I suppose it was a stepping stone for stuff to
Speaker 1: come later. So I'm gonna give it one and a
Speaker 1: half nipples, and uh, I'll give one half to each
Speaker 1: of my gals, Lucy. Actually no, I'm going to give
Speaker 1: all one and a half to Lucy Luke, who was
Speaker 1: drastically underpaid. I had no idea that much. That's absurd. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go one. I think it's like, it's a
Speaker 1: fun movie, but I wouldn't never recommend it to anyone,
Speaker 1: not even as really a hate watch. It is like
Speaker 1: very of its time. I respect that it, you know,
Speaker 1: just a female lead project doing well at the box office,
Speaker 1: even if it was written, directed, and everything else besides
Speaker 1: two female producers has everything to do with men, male
Speaker 1: gaze and horny girls. Um, I love horny girls, but
Speaker 1: not when they're written by men. I just don't. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know, and and for all for all reasons
Speaker 1: you're describing, I gna give it one fun romp hate
Speaker 1: Bill Murray and you know mcg I checked it. I
Speaker 1: checked in Hill McGee, like I texted him, but I
Speaker 1: checked in to see what he's up to. And he
Speaker 1: just produced Tall Girl on Netflix. So still into female
Speaker 1: lead things, right, I'm just like, maybe I would hope
Speaker 1: that the men who are responsible for writing and directing
Speaker 1: this movie have since tried to move on, and it
Speaker 1: seems like that is sort of the case. I want
Speaker 1: to give people room for growth. Mcg is now producing
Speaker 1: Tall Girl. Haven't seen it. I'm tall I'm interested. John
Speaker 1: August wrote the Aladdin reboot that came out this year,
Speaker 1: and I think he tried to write a song about
Speaker 1: women in it, right, he was like, I should have
Speaker 1: a job like that was Jasmin has given some political
Speaker 1: aspirations in that movie and a female friend. Okay, so
Speaker 1: so you know everyone's were all. But it gets one nipple, obviously,
Speaker 1: and it goes to Lucy Liu. I guess I'd say
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give it a whole too. Sure, two nipples
Speaker 1: because they tried, you know, they worked with the tools
Speaker 1: they were given in the year two thousand. They didn't
Speaker 1: know no better. And also it was really cool seeing
Speaker 1: women kick ass. I did think the action scenes were
Speaker 1: really fun. I did have fun watching the movie. There
Speaker 1: are a lot of points where I was eye rolling
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh god, this is nuts. But
Speaker 1: also when it came out, I don't think I felt
Speaker 1: that way like any of us did. We just didn't
Speaker 1: know better. I like, harness action is what I've learned.
Speaker 1: I really like it cool. But yeah, I think it
Speaker 1: is a nudge in the right direction, and that hopefully
Speaker 1: there were a bunch of girls who saw that when
Speaker 1: they were young and we're like, cool, maybe I could
Speaker 1: be an astronaut who rides horses and disarms bombs and
Speaker 1: also dates. It does kind of at all. It does
Speaker 1: sound like asking a little girl like what do you
Speaker 1: want to be when you grow like I want to
Speaker 1: be an astronaut but also a horseback rider and also this,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, we'll tell you it, got you,
Speaker 1: got it? Oh, So thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 1: Where can people find you online? And what would you
Speaker 1: like to plug up? While my Instagram and my Twitter
Speaker 1: handles are at the Sheer Truth th Sheer Truth, and
Speaker 1: I have a podcast called best Friends with my best
Speaker 1: friend Nicole Buyer, and we do live shows sometimes and
Speaker 1: you can find that on our twitters as well. When
Speaker 1: we said what we when we have them? And I
Speaker 1: want a movie called The Weekend. It's on Amazon and
Speaker 1: iTunes right now and on demand and it's a fun
Speaker 1: rom com that I'm pretty sure passes the Bechtel test.
Speaker 1: I didn't check, but I'm pretty sure it does does.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's it. Awesome, Thanks agin, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: You can follow us at Bechtel Cast on all the platforms.
Speaker 1: Sign up for our Patreon ak, Matreon, Patreon, dot com,
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Speaker 1: it one month the way. Still remember the end of
Speaker 1: the podcast. Bye Charlie, Bye Charlie, Bye Charlie.