1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Set podcast. 2 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: My guest today is guitarist Stevie Salas, who's worked with 3 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: Rob Stewart, Mick Jagger, and so many more. Stevie, when 4 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 1: did you realize you were Native American? 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: Well? I knew I was a Native American from birth, 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: but it was just, you know, nothing new. Wasn't like 7 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 2: we walked around go hey, I'm a Native American. We're 8 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: just like I knew who I was and we never 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: really thought about it. 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: Okay, but did you experience any discrimination growing up? 11 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 2: Not? See that? I'm lucky because I was. My father 12 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: joined the Marine Corps when he was seventeen and left 13 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: the countryside of Cheyenne outside China, Wyoming. My parents, excuse me, 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 2: my mother, my mother's family had migrated to Vista, California. 15 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 2: My father was in Camp Pendleton and my mother's family 16 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 2: was from New Mexico. And so I was born on 17 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: the beach in Oceanside, California. And there was no racism 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 2: where I grew up because there was the Marine Corps base, 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 2: and I had kids of every color and we all 20 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,720 Speaker 2: served and skateboarded and listened to music, and it was 21 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: so I really didn't experience any of those things. A 22 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: lot of my friends from the reservations have dealt with 23 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: all their lives. 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: Well, you ultimately made a movie about Native Americans in 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 1: rock called Rumble. So did you always embrace your Native 26 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: American culture or was it more that when you left 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,759 Speaker 1: home and you saw what was going on that you said, hey, 28 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: I have to make a statement. 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 2: It's a little bit of a double answer, because if 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 2: you ever really looked back, like say, when I was 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: a kid, you know, my first band was Rod Stewart. 32 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: I went from a high school band, and I met 33 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: George Clinton and when I was homeless in LA and 34 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: then you know, I went from George and you know 35 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: and Bootsy. Around that whole time, I was Dolby Seen 36 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:02,840 Speaker 2: and blah blah blah, right up to three years later 37 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: on Rod Stewart's lead guitar player. And I was always 38 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: I'm a Native American. I was never. I was always 39 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:10,679 Speaker 2: I'm a guitar player. I want to be a rock star. 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 2: I happened to be a Native American. I was never 41 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 2: I'm a Native American rock star. So if you ever 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: look back at the old photos and things, you'll always 43 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: see a little maybe I'd have on a little earring 44 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: or a little bit of my necklace or something that 45 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 2: was indigenous in my whole thing. But that was for me. 46 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: That wasn't part of my like stage wardrobe, you know. 47 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: But later on, around two thousand, around ninety nine, I 48 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 2: was really sick of the music business. I kind of 49 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,760 Speaker 2: felt like I'd done everything I could possibly do, and 50 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: you know, working from everybody from justin timer Lake and 51 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: in Public Enemy to mc jagger, and you know, I 52 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 2: worked with a lot of Sasash Jordan, and all these 53 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 2: different people were all divers diversified, kind of different artists, 54 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: and I just felt burned out after you know, a 55 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 2: bunch of solo albums too, and a bunch of world tours. 56 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: So around two thousand, maybe it was two ian and 57 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 2: two or three, I went to open up for the 58 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: Rolling Stones in Canada and I met this guy called 59 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: Brian Right McLeod who was a Native American writer, and 60 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: he was writing a book, an encyclopedia that covered every 61 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 2: bit of Indigenous recorded music going all the way back 62 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: to nineteen oh eight and wax cylinders, and you know, 63 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: there was there was there wasn't too many Native guys 64 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 2: with my my resume at all. He wanted me in 65 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: his book. So we sat down at his house and 66 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 2: he started talking to me about Jesse Ed Davis and 67 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: started talking to me about Link Ray and I knew, 68 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: you know, I knew Link Ray was, of course, and 69 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: Jesse had Davis. I mean, in sixth grade, I would 70 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 2: read Rod Stewart's album you know, Atlantic Crossing, years before 71 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: I was ever going to be his lead guitar player, 72 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: and they would say Jesse ed Davis all over these 73 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 2: amazing records that I used to read Lner notes. I 74 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,119 Speaker 2: had no idea he was a Native American. I had 75 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 2: no idea that Link Ray was a Native American. I 76 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: had no idea that Robbie Robertson was a Native American. 77 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: In fact, in nineteen eighty eight, when I first we 78 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: played a three night run at Madison Square Gardens, I 79 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 2: walked on the stage at sound check and I got 80 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 2: on my hands, knees and I kissed the stage at 81 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: Madison Square Gardens saying I'm the first Native American ever 82 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: played Madison Square Gardens. I mean no idea that I 83 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 2: was not even close to the first American. So in 84 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 2: two thousand and one I learned this about these guys. 85 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 2: I realized that if I don't know this, and I'm 86 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 2: in the business, I go, there's Native American people all 87 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 2: over out there that don't know they have these role models. 88 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: And that's when I felt the urge that I should 89 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: give something back, and I felt like I needed to 90 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 2: help bring these people to the forefront so Native people 91 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 2: would know they had role models that were from now, 92 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: that had accomplished things that would seem impossible, and not 93 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 2: have to go only back to one hundred and fifty 94 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 2: years ago, to Geronimo or somebody you know, or sitting 95 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 2: bul That's why I did it. I had no idea though, Bob, 96 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 2: it was going to change written history. 97 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: So let's go sideways for a second. You talked about 98 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: being burned out in the year two thousand. Tell me 99 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 1: about that. 100 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 2: Well, you know you were around. It was like I 101 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 2: came up. I moved to LA I left my parents' 102 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: house in San Diego in nineteen eighty five and quit 103 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: my high school band. By eight months later, I was 104 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 2: living in l I was living in a walking closet. 105 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 2: Then I was homeless, and there was a studio called 106 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: Baby O Recording Studios. In LA and I was friends 107 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 2: with a guy called David Oh. He was in a 108 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: band called the plim Souls that I really loved when 109 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: I was in high school, right, and David Oh really 110 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: liked the way I played guitar, so him and a 111 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: guy called Rick Parata who ran Baby O Studios that 112 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: ended up inventing matchless amplifiers, he thought I was cool. 113 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: He so he said, why don't you help us clean 114 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 2: up and you can help run the rehearsal studio and 115 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 2: at night just sleep on the couch. And I had 116 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 2: all my clothes in plack, black plastic bags. And it 117 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: was a horrible, horrible summer for me, summer of eighty five. 118 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: But I'd go up to musicians and I'd go up 119 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,680 Speaker 2: to like Gene Simmons and anybody that was recording at BABYO, 120 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 2: and I said, hey, my name is Steve Saliz. I 121 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: played guitar. If you ever did they tell me to 122 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: go f myself, you know, get out of here or 123 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 2: whatever it was like, and I care. I had no prede. 124 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: One night I went up to David S. Bradley and 125 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,279 Speaker 2: George Clinton who had did Atomic Dog, and I said 126 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 2: I played guitar and George Clinton just kind of said okay, cool, 127 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 2: like he was cool, like no big deal. But at 128 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 2: two o'clock in the morning, David S. Bradley came and 129 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 2: woke me up and asked me if I wanted to 130 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 2: try some guitar on some track. And I went down 131 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 2: there and he had a guy called Jack Sherman playing guitar, 132 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: who was then the guitarist for the Red Hot Chili 133 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: Peppers in nineteen eighty five. And I thought, God, Jack's 134 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 2: playing some amazing stuff. He was playing like this amazing stuff. 135 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 2: But George what he was I figured out later what 136 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: he was doing was he he was playing exactly what 137 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: he learned and worshiped about Parliament Funkadelic. So I thought 138 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: George was kind of like he'd already done that. So 139 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 2: I went bananas on this guitar funk Wang Bar Steve 140 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:58,479 Speaker 2: Stevens madness, and George went crazy. And so that's what 141 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,359 Speaker 2: set me on this path. Then the next fifteen years, 142 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 2: I got signed in nineteen eighty eight, put my first album, 143 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: Mountain in UH ninety, and then I just did world tour, 144 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 2: world tour, you know, then music direct, Turnstrant Derby and 145 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: Duran Durant or go back out in another world tour 146 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: and then go back out and write and produce in 147 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: sas Jordan Rat's album, and then to a tour with 148 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 2: her and Arrowsmith. You know, it just never stopped. And 149 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 2: the more the business kept going into the nineties, it 150 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: stopped being about development, it stopped being about music, and 151 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: it started being about how many times I could get 152 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: played on K rock or you know all these and 153 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 2: then all these rock and roll metal guys that I 154 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: thought had no credibility were shaving their heads and pretending 155 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 2: to be punk rockers and they'd get a record deal. 156 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: I just thought the whole thing was becoming bullshit, and 157 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: I just I had money, and I just thought, I'm 158 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 2: sick of this and I'm sick of the business, and 159 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 2: I want to go surf. And I bought a bunch 160 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: of land in Costa Rica and I was just going 161 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 2: to go retire and surf, and and that's what I mean. 162 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: I was just burned out on all the the insincerity 163 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: that was going on by the end of the end 164 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 2: of the nineties, with all the fake, fake everything, fake 165 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,559 Speaker 2: punk rock, fake this, fake rid and it's just nothing 166 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: that credibility to me. Anymore. 167 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: So you know, you reconnected with your Native American roots 168 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: and other Native American players in music. But what happened 169 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: with you and music after that. 170 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: Time, Well, actually what happened It was a bummer. Around 171 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 2: two thousand, excuse me, about two thousand my girlfriend passed away, 172 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 2: and wow, and I went into a deep, deep hole. 173 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 2: And at the same time, you know, my nest egg 174 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: I went. I lost a million dollars in the stock market, 175 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: pretty much on a two thousand crash. And now you know, 176 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 2: you know, you know what it was like back then. 177 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: It was hard to say a million dollars playing guitar, right, 178 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 2: you know. And all of a sudden I realized I 179 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: had to go back to work. But I was so down, 180 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: and it was like I've always felt like I had 181 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: like a horseshoe up my ass. I feel like I've 182 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: always been so lucky. Out of the blue, I show 183 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: up at Virgin. I had a deal then with Virgin 184 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: by the time with Tony Berg where I could develop 185 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 2: and sign my own acts. If he liked the acts, 186 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 2: they'd sign him and I could take him in development, 187 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: because I mean, you came from the days of development 188 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,680 Speaker 2: when they'd rather give you ten grand and lose it, 189 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: then sign a band and lose two million bucks or whatever. 190 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: So I was one of those guys they'd let go 191 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 2: develop acts, and I was developing Peter Cornell, who is 192 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: Chris Cornell's brother, who's this amazing singer. But I was 193 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 2: also in this deep depression. And I walked by Jima 194 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 2: Corfield's office because I knew gem would because I produce 195 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 2: was and I was in nineteen eighty seven with Down, 196 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 2: so you know, I knew her really well. And she goes, hey, 197 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,079 Speaker 2: I got a I saw a list today that you know, 198 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 2: it was from Nancy Berry's desk, that Mick Jagger's going 199 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 2: to call you to be a guitar you know, he's 200 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 2: a guitar player. I'm like, what so? And I'd known 201 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 2: Mick because I used to hang out with Keith a Latin, 202 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 2: Bernard Fowler and all the guys. So I got this 203 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: call and it was like a gift from God. It 204 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: was like, who else could get me out of that 205 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: hell hole I was in then the biggest rock star 206 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 2: in the world. It was like the gods were telling 207 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: me to get my ass together and get my shit together. 208 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 2: And so I got a call and there was five 209 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 2: people that got that audition. That was me, Dave Navarro, 210 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: Rusty Anderson, Doyle Bramhall, and I'm blanked on the fourth guy. 211 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 2: But the Corey I forget his name, but he used 212 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 2: to play with More's Day in the Time and Michelle 213 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: and Decachello is really really cool guitar player. And I 214 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: got the gig and then then Mick made me as 215 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 2: music director and it's the only thing that could have 216 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: got me back out. And I got back out and 217 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: I got and Jagger. Jagger was like Jagger was like 218 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 2: every detail mattered. And remember what I told you before 219 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 2: in the nineties, when I felt like there was no 220 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 2: more credibility, he instantly like made me believe in him 221 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: because he would call and talk about this ship that 222 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: I was hearing. That really made a difference to me, 223 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 2: and I could tell he could hear it, and it 224 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: was just the most It's the only thing that could 225 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 2: have got me out of the hell I was in. 226 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 2: And Jagger was just like young still even though he 227 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: was old, and it was funny and it just it 228 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 2: brought me back to life. And that's when I started 229 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 2: kept playing. So then I started doing more European tours again. 230 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 2: I started accepting more offers, you know, I you know, 231 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 2: if Wayne Cramer called and I worked with the MC 232 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 2: five or whatever. You know, whenever it was something that 233 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 2: was good, it got me back into playing and got 234 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 2: me into actually trying to enjoy myself again playing me. 235 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: Okay, you were inducted in the Hall of Fame where 236 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: you grew up recently, and in the quotes you say, well, 237 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:38,199 Speaker 1: I'm not the best guitar player. I'm not the best singer, 238 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: So how'd you get the gigs? 239 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 2: You know, I tell kids this all the time. You know, 240 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,200 Speaker 2: I've been in all those readers poles, and I was 241 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: number one in the Japan Guitar World Readers Bowl when 242 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 2: I was in you know, nineteen ninety when my first album, 243 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: Color Code came out, I was number three in the 244 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 2: Guitar World in America. You know, I was in the 245 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 2: fifty Greatest Guitar Players of All Time in like nineteen 246 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: ninety six and Guitar Player magazine. You know, But it's 247 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 2: all bullshit. It's like if you got a great publicist 248 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 2: and you hit at the right time and you ride 249 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 2: this wave right. But the other thing I tell kids 250 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: is this Boba I go, you don't have to be 251 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,080 Speaker 2: the greatest. You just got to be the greatest when 252 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: it counts. And that's something I was great at. I 253 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 2: could walk in the room and destroy and just destroy 254 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 2: the room with an audition like Rod Stewart had no idea. 255 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,560 Speaker 2: I couldn't play slad guitar acoustic guitar when I got 256 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: that gig, and it was too late for him to 257 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: fire me, although he almost fired me every week. It 258 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 2: was like I wrote a book about it. 259 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: Okay, yes, why don't you tell people why he almost 260 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: fired you? 261 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 2: Because I was an idiot. I was a stupid kid. 262 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: You know, I was a little kid in a band 263 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,520 Speaker 2: full of genius grown ups. I mean it was Carma 264 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: and Rojas on bass that you know, he brought the 265 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,680 Speaker 2: bassline to Let's Dance. It was like it was like 266 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 2: Bowie's Guys, and it was the power station. Tony Thompson 267 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: originally that Tony Brock from The Babies came back in 268 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: my high school band used to play baby songs, you 269 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: know what I mean. It's like Carma and Rojas's poster 270 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 2: was on the wall at my mom and dad's house 271 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 2: in my bedroom. Still. You know, it was like I 272 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 2: was in. They used to call me young Eddie Martinez 273 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 2: because in eighty seven when I was a staff producer 274 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 2: for David Cushabam, when I scored Billing Ted Sex and 275 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 2: The Adventure, I was also the only guy doing rap 276 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 2: songs for those soundtracks because nobody in LA in rock 277 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: and roll knew a lot about rap. But I was 278 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 2: really into Eddie Martinez and run DMC, so they used 279 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: to call me a little Eddie Martinez. And now Eddie 280 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: Martinez was in Rod's band, so the whole thing was 281 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 2: just like nuts. So I think I was super immature. 282 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,600 Speaker 2: You know. One time at Miami Stadium, I was playing. 283 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: It was only the third gig of the tour, of 284 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 2: my first tour since my high schol band, keep in 285 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 2: mind where I sold out Miami Dolphin Stadium, Joe Robbie Stadium. 286 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 2: I saw myself on this giant diamond vision screen and 287 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 2: I was starting the song first cut as the Deepest, 288 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 2: and I just stopped. I started prank, and I just froze, 289 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 2: and I pointed at this thing of myself and I 290 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 2: was like, oh my God. And then I realized Rod 291 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 2: and I was staring at me. Sixty five thousand people 292 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 2: there and I started the song again and go afterwards, 293 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: I was like, what are you doing, you know, stopping 294 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 2: to wave at the girls. And I told him, I go, 295 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 2: wasn't waving at the girls. I frozen. He goes, that's 296 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: even worse. I mean, I was almost fired so many times. 297 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 2: But but I was also this had this young energy 298 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: that he loved that was unifying our band. And we 299 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 2: became like a that band in eighty eight, if you 300 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: recall that an order tour. It brought him back and 301 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: we sold three or four million records and it was 302 00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 2: part of our band was like an army. It was 303 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 2: what you dream of and you know, but but yeah, 304 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 2: in the beginning it I almost got blown out, Like 305 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: every every week was I was in trouble. And then 306 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,520 Speaker 2: I became the scapegoat for everything, you know what I mean. 307 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: It was like if somebody else made a clam they 308 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 2: point at me, and Roderd think it was me, and 309 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: yeah it was. It was. You know, I got hazed 310 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 2: a lot. I got hazed a ton until on Rod's airplane, 311 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 2: I started a fight with the whole band. And then 312 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: after that everybody got cool. And because I was born 313 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: a fighter, you know, and I like to. You know, 314 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: I used to punch people out open I was a kid, 315 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 2: but because everyone did where I lived, surfing, and those 316 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: guys I think were in shop because they're still musician musicians. 317 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: You know. 318 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: What ways were you haved? 319 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: Well, you know, like I'd get my bag. We had 320 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: the zone. We had our own airplane, and so we 321 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 2: used to fly from one city in the afternoon and 322 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: go play a concert and fly back to when we'd 323 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 2: home base out of one city like Atlanta, and we'd 324 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: go do like ten shows and all that, and you know, 325 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 2: you know about that stuff. And and the one time 326 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 2: I get my clothes on the airplane, my bag and 327 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 2: I go to open it up to get my clean 328 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: clothes out because I'm all sweaty, it's stinky from the concert, 329 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: and there's a bunch of squished fruit in my bag. 330 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: You know, my clothes are you know, stupid shit like that, 331 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: or you know, Rod Stewart used to paint penises like 332 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: I like Kelly Emberg. We were all going into into 333 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: uh Montreal and Rod you had to hide your passport. 334 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 2: That was one of the things you had to do 335 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: in the Rod Street Band, And you had to hide 336 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 2: stuff like that. Like so like Kelly Emberg left her 337 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 2: passport out and next thing you know, she opens it 338 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 2: up at the custom and there's a penis drawn next 339 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 2: to her face. Or you know, I'd go to go 340 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 2: on stage with a brand new white jacket and on 341 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 2: the back there was a giant black penis drawn on it, 342 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 2: you know. Or one of Rod's friends would come on 343 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: from a soccer team and he'd fall asleep and they'd 344 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 2: fill his hair with shaving cream and cigarette butts and 345 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: you know, put rigs and it chose. I mean, it 346 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 2: was just like that kind of shit all day long, 347 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: because Rod and them were still like, this is nineteen 348 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 2: eighty eight, and you know, Rod was still a kid. 349 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:27,640 Speaker 2: He's still kind of a kid. 350 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 1: Actually, So when it ends the World tour, what's your 351 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: relationship with Rod and the band? 352 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: They were like my big brothers, and I loved them 353 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 2: so much. They were everything to me, and I didn't 354 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: want to quit the band, but I had signed, I 355 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 2: secretly signed the biggest recording contract Island Records had ever 356 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 2: given to somebody right before, right during the New Rod 357 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 2: Stewart tour, and I was so afraid that they were 358 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 2: going to find out and fire me. So I didn't 359 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 2: tell anybody. And then one day in Wisconsin, I'm sitting 360 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: down having a dinner before a show backstage with Randy 361 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,239 Speaker 2: Phillips and Rod, and Randy Phillips goes, hey, I heard 362 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,280 Speaker 2: you signed a big contract with the Island. And I'm like, oh, 363 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: you know, it's like I I yeah. And Rod started 364 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 2: laughing at me, and I go, what's so funny? And 365 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 2: he goes All my career, everyone in my band, they're 366 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 2: always they're going to leave, They're going to get their 367 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 2: own record deal, They're going to do this. And because 368 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: you're just like this kid and you get this huge 369 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 2: record deal, and because none of them ever did, I 370 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: guess you know what I mean. They all used to 371 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:39,960 Speaker 2: threaten to quit. I'm gonna get my own deal, and 372 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 2: I never threatened to quit to get my own deal. 373 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 2: I didn't even want to know I had a deal. 374 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: But when I got done, you know, with part of 375 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,439 Speaker 2: the out of order tour, Island Records had said to 376 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 2: be you. And by then Bill Grahm was my manager, 377 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: and there Mordy Wiggins, and then we're like, look, do 378 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,240 Speaker 2: you want to do you want to be his guitar player? 379 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 2: Do you want to be your own artist. And I 380 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 2: had to quit the band. But it was almost like 381 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: getting a divorce. It was like leaving my family. It was. 382 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 2: It really crushed me. I did not want to leave 383 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 2: those guys. 384 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: So what's your relationship with Rod today and what's happened 385 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: over the ensuing thirty five years? 386 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: Thirty five years is nuts. I love Rod Man. Rod 387 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 2: loved my book and he teased me one time. I 388 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 2: popped into a show at Buffalo and He's like, I'm 389 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 2: getting your book and I can't wait. I'm gonna sue 390 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 2: the shit out of you, you know. And I saw 391 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,640 Speaker 2: Rod this this the it was this this last February 392 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 2: or the February before I came. I think it was 393 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 2: this last February. I was down at the hard Rock 394 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 2: Seminal hard Rock where I have a business. I have 395 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: a sports music bar, and so I had the new 396 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 2: Seminal Guitar Guitar Tower and Hollywood, Florida, and I was 397 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: down there with my Seminal friends because they own all 398 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 2: the hard rocks, and Rod was playing. So I goes, 399 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: let's go see Rod. So Jimmy, Jimmy the sax player, 400 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 2: was still in the band. He was in the band. 401 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 2: When I was in the band, Jimmy Roberts, and Jimmy 402 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: came and met me before the show, said hi, and 403 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: I had a couple of tickets and I didn't really 404 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: ask for anything, but Rod found out I was there, 405 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: and before I could leave, some guy came out and 406 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 2: grabbed me because he wants to see you and took 407 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 2: me and my friends all backstage, and it was like 408 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: it was like he was I got the photos. He 409 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: was hugging me and he kissed my kissed my head 410 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: and it was just like it was. It was the 411 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 2: best because in a way psychologically he was like my 412 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 2: big brother, almost like a father figure to me, you know, 413 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: because it was twenty something years older than me when 414 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 2: I was in his band, and for me it was 415 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 2: it was beautiful. I love Rod story. I would take 416 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 2: a bullet for him still to this day, even if 417 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 2: he makes a shit record. 418 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: How did you actually get that gig? 419 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 2: I was hot? You know in La? You know how 420 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: it is, You remember how it was if you got 421 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: a buzz in La you know, some music connection magazine. 422 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 2: Butd Scope I used to just think I was the 423 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 2: coolest so but Scopa Scoop would write about me and 424 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 2: everybody would write about me, and and I was around Hollywood, 425 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 2: and I had this band, Color Code, and I was 426 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 2: mixing this funk and rock thing and it sounded cool 427 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 2: and people liked it. And I was also became a 428 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: staff producer for David Kirshenbaum, and then I scored Bill 429 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 2: and Ted's Excellent Adventure. You know, I was there when 430 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,840 Speaker 2: Tracy Chapman walked in with her birkenstocks and an afro. 431 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 2: You know, it was like I was around when this 432 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:21,359 Speaker 2: shit was happening. And Jamie Cohen loved me, you know, 433 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 2: so a lot of a and our guys loved me 434 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 2: and would take me out with them to see bands. 435 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:28,479 Speaker 2: And I had this already done. George Clinton R and 436 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 2: B Skills Senens in the closet. I told everyone. Everyone 437 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 2: thought I was George Clinton's guitar player, so they thought 438 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 2: I was famous already. But little did they know I 439 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 2: was not from Detroit and I was not his guitar player. 440 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 2: I just played on that record and so but they 441 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: would hire me, and I would tell him I was 442 00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: double scale, so I did like that was a girl 443 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 2: from Climax. I'm blanking on her name right now. She 444 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 2: was the drummer that sing ladies, you know, they did 445 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: Ladies Room and all that, and I did that. And 446 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 2: then Dick Griffy asked me if I wanted to join 447 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 2: a band with Babyface and La Reid, you know, because 448 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: they were artists before they became record executives. And I 449 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 2: didn't want to do that. And then Thomas Dolby Andy 450 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 2: Taylor called me, And it turns out that Andy Taylor 451 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:14,360 Speaker 2: was managed by Randy Phillips and Arnold's Arnold Arnold Stifeler, 452 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 2: Steph Yeah, Arnold Steve for Sorry. So Arnold and Randy 453 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 2: managed him and and Andy Taylor had just left Randa Rand. 454 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 2: He had a big buzz in nineteen eighty seven. He 455 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 2: had a big hit going. It's called Don't Let called 456 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 2: Take It Easy with the Florid EDDI singing backups, and 457 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: he auditioned me and he thought I was cool, and 458 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 2: I became his guitar player. But right before a week 459 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 2: before the tour, we're opening the Psychedelic First Tour, and 460 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 2: the first gig was the La Form and the second 461 00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 2: gig was going to be San Diego Opener Amphitheater, and 462 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: I was my big homecoming and Andy fired me. It's 463 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 2: like I've never been you know. I was devastated. 464 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: Okay, a little bit slower. Why did he fire you? 465 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 2: I think he fired me because he's a dick. But 466 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: I also think he fired me because he was insecure 467 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,240 Speaker 2: and I was hot. I was hot. I worshiped Andy, 468 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 2: but I was up. I was up in his you know, 469 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: I was in his game with him. I was. I 470 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 2: wasn't there to be in the back and be all 471 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 2: like passive. I was like aggressive when I played, and 472 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 2: I thought he would like that. And that's what Rod 473 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 2: Stewart liked about me. I was. I was up. And 474 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,160 Speaker 2: if you watched the Rod Stewart tour from eighty eight, 475 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,239 Speaker 2: I was up in it. Man. I was like it was. 476 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: It was Rockstar Central. But Andy like this is silly, Okay, 477 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 2: I search the world. Randy Phillips said, you gotta go 478 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 2: buy some amplifiers. Here's some money. You know, the good 479 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: old days when you could go buy six Marshal stacks. 480 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: So I ordered six Marshall stacks and I got Dave 481 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 2: Wider made a guitar center to get him and find 482 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,439 Speaker 2: me Red ones. Okay, in nineteen eighty seven, it was 483 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 2: hard to find red Marshall Stacks. Andy saw him. He 484 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 2: goes and he spray painted all of them black. So 485 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 2: right away I was in a rub. I was in 486 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: a rub. You know. It was like everything I was 487 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 2: doing was wrong. And I made a joke about swinging 488 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 2: from a rope from the top of my aps Ted nugent, 489 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: you know, I was joking, but he freaked out, and 490 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: I think that's why he fired me. But he fired me. 491 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 2: I then got a call from Jamie Cohen to go 492 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 2: to San Francisco and produce the tubes for Columbia. They 493 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:15,640 Speaker 2: were doing demos. I was cutting demos on him because 494 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 2: I wanted to see if they were going to sign him. 495 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: While doing that, I got a call from Randy Phillips saying, Hey, 496 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: would you want to come audition for Rod? And that 497 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 2: was the dream, right, that was the dream Rod. People 498 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 2: forget now, but Rod Stewart was a superstar and he rocked. 499 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 2: I don't care what anybody says, you know. And I 500 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 2: auditioned for Rod and he said I got the gig, 501 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: and then they called me back and said I don't 502 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 2: have the gigs. They realized that I just didn't have 503 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,479 Speaker 2: any skills whatsoever. And I never toured. I only had 504 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 2: good rock skills, so I just kept calling, and I 505 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: kept calling Arnold, I mean Arnold's office, and Malcolm callingmore 506 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 2: Rod's personal assistant. And Tony Thompson was the drummer who 507 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,840 Speaker 2: was idolized, and I called him and I said, hey, 508 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 2: around anything going on, you know? And by then I 509 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 2: was living with the Frank Shackler. I don't know if 510 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: you remember him. He was an A and R guy 511 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 2: at Electra. I mean I'm at Aristas sorry, And we 512 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 2: lived in this house of Nika Costa, nik A Costa's 513 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: mom's house. I lived in the guest house while a 514 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 2: Nica and I used to have to pick her up 515 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 2: from high school. But I call and call and just 516 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 2: I had no shame and I had no pride. Hey 517 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 2: you They ever did me, and no one ever called 518 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: me back. But all of a sudden, out of the blue, 519 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 2: I get a called Stevie. It's Malcolm Rod would like 520 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: to see you. Could you come down to Audible And 521 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: I'm like, I went to Audible and he asked me 522 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,480 Speaker 2: the audition again turned out Eddie Martinez decided to go 523 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: back to Robert Palmer because he was Robert Palmer's guitar player, 524 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 2: and I played a lot like Eddie, and I rehearsed 525 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: and I worked my ass off and I got the gig. 526 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 2: And Rod looked at me and he said, Okay, you 527 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 2: got the gig, and this time I mean it. And 528 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: eight days later we were playing higher on Bissom Stadium in 529 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 2: Puerto Rico. 530 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: Wow, let's go back. How did you get your deal 531 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 1: with Ireland? 532 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: Well in eighty seven, and well, you know it's weird, Carter. 533 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 2: There was a guy called Dino I Raley and I 534 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 2: used to date his daughter Julie, and Dino used to 535 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: run Restless Records and used to run the label with 536 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 2: George Harrison's dark Horse for A and M. And he 537 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 2: was he was an old promo guy from the early days. 538 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 2: And he had found this girl in nineteen eighty six, 539 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: I think it was named Melissa Ethridge, and he asked 540 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 2: me to help him develop Melissa Ethridge. So we went, 541 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,639 Speaker 2: we got he got some money from EMI, and we 542 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: went to the old EMI America studios right there on 543 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: Sunset they used to have there, and I cut a 544 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: bunch of demos of Melissa Ethridge and I was horrible. 545 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 2: I produced him, but I was way off. I made 546 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 2: a rock because everything in that part of the eighties 547 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 2: was heavy bon joviature. So I made a rock and 548 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 2: it was I was way off and it was awful, 549 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,160 Speaker 2: but she was great. And there was one song, ironically 550 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 2: that I didn't play on and I produced that Chris 551 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,920 Speaker 2: Blackwell hurt and he freaked out on her, and Chris 552 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 2: Blackwell signed her. And so that Dino guy made me 553 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: learn about making demos. So he introduced me to a 554 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,160 Speaker 2: guy called Carter who was his friend. And you remember Carter, 555 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,200 Speaker 2: I'm sure. So of course Carter. 556 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: Wrote the lyrics for instance, and Peppermint's longtime A and 557 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: R guy at Capitol brought Tina Turner back from the 558 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: dead career. 559 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 2: Wise to answer, well, Carter, Carter, these are the best 560 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,479 Speaker 2: things that ever happened to me. And I'm gonna tell 561 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 2: you why, because nobody was kissing your ass back then. 562 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 2: Carter said, I think this sucks, but there's something here 563 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 2: that's a little interesting. So I mean he just tells 564 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 2: you flat out you suck. 565 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 1: Well, that was Carter very much. 566 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think this really sucks. He goes, but then 567 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,680 Speaker 2: he's a remember in his office at a m he 568 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 2: had this elephant leg for a chair. I'm sitting on 569 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 2: this eleph He's like super eclectic, right, and he goes, 570 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 2: take this ten grand, and I want you to go 571 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 2: work on some things that sound like this and come 572 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:11,360 Speaker 2: back and see me in two months or a month 573 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 2: or whatever it was. So I did that and I 574 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:18,959 Speaker 2: cut some cut some shit, and I came back and 575 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 2: he listened to it and he go, aw, this sucks, 576 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: and this sucks, and he goes, this one's pretty good. 577 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: So he goes, why don't you go, you know, over 578 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 2: to New York. Here's a guy's number. I wanted to 579 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 2: work with you and work on something, work in this direction. 580 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:35,960 Speaker 2: So I went and did that, and I you know, 581 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 2: he gave me twenty grand, you know. And back then 582 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: it was the guy I can't even remember Glenn fight, 583 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 2: Glenn Fight maybe or something like that. I don't know, 584 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:46,000 Speaker 2: but it was like So I went over there and 585 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,439 Speaker 2: I did this, and then I came back and he goes, ah, 586 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 2: it's all cool, but it's not for me. So then, 587 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 2: you know, in those days, you take I owned the demos, 588 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 2: they give him back. So I took the demos and 589 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 2: at this time I started going to London. They started 590 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 2: flying me over to London early nineteen eighty seven, so 591 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: I started in the new was not was what Ap 592 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,199 Speaker 2: Dog album, but it was before Dawn asked me to 593 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 2: co produce the song Outcome to the Freaks. So I 594 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 2: was playing guitar on it and we we were doing that, 595 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: and then I was getting a call from the guy 596 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 2: who one of the guys that worked with paul Oakenfeldt 597 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: and invented acid house music in London, and they were 598 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: They were saying, nobody plays guitar like me in London 599 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 2: and will you come over? So they kept flying me 600 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 2: over and while I was there, I was working with 601 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 2: a company called Park Music that managed these guys, but 602 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 2: they also managed a young kid called Terrence trad Darby 603 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 2: and his album hadn't come out yet, and they offered 604 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 2: me that gig, but there was no rock guitar on it. 605 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 2: You know, later I would become late Terrence's music director, 606 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 2: but this is way early. This is eighty seven. Terrence's 607 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 2: album comes out Hardline. According to terrorits Had Explodes, goes 608 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: number one, sells twenty million copies. I go back. I 609 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 2: just get to put a band together. If it was 610 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,240 Speaker 2: and I was with Winston and Carla Zar who you know, 611 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: all of us AMT Fiddler. We were all up up 612 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 2: and comers, and nobody kN who were Amp Fiddler from 613 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: p funk Me Carla Zar who became the drummer for 614 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 2: Wendy and Lisa and the water Boys, Amp Phil you 615 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: know who took Bourney where else place in Funkadelic. And 616 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 2: we put this band together around Don David and Harry 617 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: and Sweetpeat from What's Not Was, And next thing you know, 618 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 2: we have a number one record called Walk the Dinosaur, 619 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 2: just number one, and we're just we're so we're doing 620 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 2: top of the Pops. When in London, I mean a 621 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 2: guy called Mitchell krass now Bob Krasnow's kid, who's a 622 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 2: head A and R in London, and he thought I 623 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 2: was cool. He heard my demos, he thought they were cool. 624 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,320 Speaker 2: But he wanted me to go to Holland and play 625 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 2: guitar on this record for this artist he was developing 626 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 2: and wanted to sign. And I by this time I 627 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 2: had just gotten fired by Eddie Taylor, and I said, no, 628 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 2: I'm not doing it. I go I'm only going to 629 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 2: work on my own stuff and I'm never going to 630 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 2: get myself in a position again where somebody can humiliate 631 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 2: me like Andy did, because my high school friends and 632 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 2: parents have bought tickets to see us in San Diego 633 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 2: with the first and I was I've never been so 634 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 2: embarrassed in my life because everyone thought it was a 635 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: liar and full of shit, and you know, I wasn't there. 636 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 2: So instead of him saying taking no for an answer, 637 00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 2: he said, I'll give you five thousand dollars that you 638 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 2: can work down downstairs on your own demos while you're 639 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: working on this other girl's record. And I said, yeah, okay, 640 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 2: I'll do that. So I went to Holland and def 641 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 2: Leppard was working on a Hysteria album in one room 642 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 2: with mut Lang, and I was working with the Zeo 643 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 2: and these other guys in the room next door. It 644 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 2: was super awesome. I mean, I hate to keep sounding 645 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: like this, but the late eighties and the early nineties 646 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 2: was just the most amazing time to be an artist. 647 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 2: It was just insane, that kind of shited it went on, 648 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 2: you know. And so I'm in Holland and I'm doing that, 649 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 2: and Mitchell hooked me up with a guy called Steve 650 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 2: Pross in La at Electra Records, and Steve Pross had 651 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 2: just signed the Pandoras. The Pandoras then got dropped. He 652 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 2: was really convinced that Pandoras were real. So I took 653 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 2: five grand from Restless and I went and recut their 654 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 2: record called rock Hard, and produced it. And by doing 655 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 2: it and Steve really felt loyal to me. So Steve 656 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,640 Speaker 2: left Electra got fired actually, and got hired at Island 657 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 2: and signed me to Island. And that's how I got 658 00:30:57,520 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 2: my record. 659 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: Doue, Okay, finish up with Rod Stewart. What's the experience 660 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 1: for you making the record? When the record comes out? 661 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 2: The problem was is I got super good during that 662 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 2: year with Rod Stewart, playing with the Carlin Rojas and 663 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: Jeff Gollub and Tony Brock and I mean they were 664 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 2: the best musicians in the world, and I got really 665 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,640 Speaker 2: really I'm not trying to brag. I mean I just 666 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: got really, really good a year of that's like every 667 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 2: night at arenas and stadiums, you know, you either get 668 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 2: good or you get fired. And I got really good. 669 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 2: So when I came back to my band that I 670 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: had before I left on tour with Rod, I almost couldn't. 671 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:41,440 Speaker 2: I almost couldn't even I was I just couldn't were like, 672 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 2: like I was a different person and we had to 673 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 2: work really hard to I had to rediscover myself. I 674 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: was become way too commercial. I remember Island's like, what 675 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 2: are these crappy songs? 676 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 1: You know? 677 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 2: You know you make it a you know you're not 678 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 2: what happened to your alternative edge? And I'm like, you're right. 679 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 2: I was really into otis reading now because of Rod, 680 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 2: and I was really in the East Memphis soul, and 681 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 2: I had to sort of learn how to get back 682 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 2: to being who I was before Rod. But my skill 683 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 2: level was way higher, and I'd spent Rod had told 684 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 2: me go go meet your album, hurry and finishing it and 685 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 2: come on, we're going to do the South American tour. 686 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 2: I couldn't do that. I just couldn't do it. I 687 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: didn't I didn't have enough of the great songs I needed. 688 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,040 Speaker 2: I remember Tony Berg came over to talk to me 689 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 2: at my Hollywood Hills house and and talked to me 690 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 2: about producing my album. And I loved Tony, you know really, 691 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 2: Tony was always nice to me when I was nobody, 692 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 2: and he said to me, he goes he listened to 693 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 2: the demos, like have you ever read a book. And 694 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 2: you know what, he was right. I hadn't. I hadn't 695 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 2: been shit, you know. I you know, I was a surfer, skateboarder. 696 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: It was full of my own bullshit. And and I 697 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: had just been in a bidding war, okay, on my deal, 698 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 2: and I thought about saying, off, Tony Berg, we can talk. 699 00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 2: Shut up, you know. I thought about my ego. Then 700 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 2: I this might have been a turning point in my life. 701 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 2: I stopped myself and I thought about it, and I said, 702 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,959 Speaker 2: maybe I need to shut up and listen to what 703 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: he's saying, you know what. And he was dead right. 704 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 2: He was dead right. And that's that's that was a 705 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 2: life changing move for me, because I could have just 706 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 2: did my own thing and been my own bullshit and 707 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 2: you know, followed me. Everybody's telling me how great I am. 708 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,160 Speaker 2: I'm the guy and Bill and Ted's you know, huge 709 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,680 Speaker 2: movie now and I did that and wasn't wasn't number one, 710 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 2: and you know what I mean. It's like, but I 711 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 2: listened to him, and so I found a guy called 712 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 2: parthon On Huxley. I loved him. Jamie Cohen and David 713 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 2: David at Columbia, you know, David. Why am I blanking 714 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 2: on his name? David the produce McCartney. You know, you 715 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about, you know, David David, David David. 716 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: Well, there was the guy who the guy that was 717 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: four one five records keep going. 718 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, he still produced mccartey now and all that stuff. 719 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 2: But David David had signed Parthenon Huxley, and I loved 720 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: the Parthenon Huxley's record. It sounded like Bowie mixed with 721 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, And so I loved his lyrics, 722 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 2: and so I sat down and started writing lyrics for 723 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 2: Parthenon Huxley and and it taught me so much, and 724 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 2: it saved my record. But that took me. That took 725 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 2: me that whole year of nineteen eighty nine to go 726 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 2: through that metamorphosis. Well, David Kahn, David Kahn. So, David 727 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,840 Speaker 2: Kahn had signed Parthenon Huxley, and and I used to 728 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 2: hang out with Jamie Cohen and David Conn their officers 729 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 2: were next to each other. And you know, I watched Fistbone, 730 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 2: you know, record got me bone. And because David invited 731 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 2: me to the studio in nineteen eighty seven, I sat 732 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 2: in a room and watch watching or would play those 733 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,919 Speaker 2: bass parts, you know, So I sit there. I got 734 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 2: parthon On Huxley involved, and then I wanted to work 735 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 2: with always dreamed of working in Australia with the guy 736 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 2: who had produced In Excess and he had produced Midnight Oil, 737 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 2: British guy. I'm blanking on his name right now, and 738 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: it's super cool. I just actually ran into him a 739 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:19,080 Speaker 2: slim Jim Phantom's wedding party not too long ago. And 740 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 2: I was going to go to Australia and do it 741 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,560 Speaker 2: with him because I loved those In Excess and Midnight 742 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 2: Oil records. But Island Records is like, We're not sending 743 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 2: you to Australia for three months, no way. So Bill 744 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 2: Laswell called he had mad credibility. He was considered untouchable. 745 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 2: Like no, you know, you don't call Bill Laswell. He 746 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 2: calls you. You know, record companies bag him to do 747 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 2: records and he says no to everything. And he said, 748 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 2: you know, Randy Phillips told me that he turned down 749 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,880 Speaker 2: four hundred grand to produce Simple Minds for Randy to 750 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,120 Speaker 2: do my record for forty grand, you know what I mean. 751 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,000 Speaker 2: It was like, so Laswell called and that's why I 752 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,960 Speaker 2: went to New York and I recorded with Laswell in 753 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 2: New York with that whole scene that you know he 754 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 2: had did Public Enemy and I mean, I mean a 755 00:35:55,480 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 2: Public Image and Johnny Lyden, all these different records that 756 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,520 Speaker 2: became my whole start as a solo artist or recording artist. 757 00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: And were you happy with that record? Were you happy 758 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,239 Speaker 1: with the commercial performance of that record? 759 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: No? I hated that record, but I think I was wrong. 760 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 2: Everyone still to this day that it's like a cult, 761 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 2: cult classic record. The problem was the record was hugely 762 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,920 Speaker 2: successful in Europe and in Japan, but I was on 763 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 2: Island Records, and in nineteen ninety they got bought by PolyGram. 764 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 2: So I was on tour opening for Joe Satrianni, which 765 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,160 Speaker 2: was which was both a blessing and a curse because 766 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 2: I was gone from doing twenty thousand seaters with rod 767 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,720 Speaker 2: full of supermodels and movie stars and people like screaming 768 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,560 Speaker 2: and going crazy to opening for Joe Satrianni in front 769 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,959 Speaker 2: of about three thousand, five hundred to five thousand people 770 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 2: a night, sold out everywhere, and it was pretty much 771 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 2: three thousand, It was pretty much four thy nine hundred 772 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 2: ninety nine guys and maybe one girlfriend, and it was 773 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 2: dudes and they would just stare at your neck and 774 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 2: they would stare at my fingers, you know, and then 775 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 2: they'd yell, oh, he plays panatonics, and I was like, 776 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 2: I don't even know what a panatonic is. I never 777 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,280 Speaker 2: took a lesson. So it's like it was no fun, 778 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,880 Speaker 2: but it made me a real It established me as 779 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:19,920 Speaker 2: a guitar player that was a serious guitar player in 780 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 2: the world. And that's sort of like it was. It 781 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 2: was not fun for me. So the record didn't sell 782 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,120 Speaker 2: well because Warner's was losing it, so they couldn't the 783 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: distribute distributor was losing it so they couldn't just shit 784 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 2: with it, and PolyGram couldn't touch it for six months. 785 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 2: So I really fell through the cracks in America and 786 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 2: I and I never recovered, but I almost I almost 787 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 2: recovered when Charlie Miner called me on my second album. 788 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: Okay, well, Charlie Minor, legendary promo guy at A and 789 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 1: M Records, Charlie calls you, and. 790 00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 2: What, Charlie, here's a song I that's blowing up in 791 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 2: Japan called Start Again. And he says, this is a 792 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 2: huge record I can make this, you know how he was, 793 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 2: I can make this a charide record in America. And 794 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,799 Speaker 2: I got to hang out with Charlie Minor. And then 795 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,959 Speaker 2: his assistant was Charlie Little Charlie who ended up running 796 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 2: Sony Records in the late nineties. Charlie Walker, Charlie Walkee 797 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 2: as Charlie WALKI used to be our day to day 798 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 2: for Omaguy and the Derandauran tour and Charlie Miner. You know, 799 00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,600 Speaker 2: he'd come up and it was like he was like 800 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 2: the Godfather or some shit man mine was. So he 801 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,759 Speaker 2: was like, you know, the man, and so in dubious 802 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 2: dubious of course. So I get a call. Charlie's wants 803 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 2: to meet you. He's got some kind of production deal. 804 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 2: He's going to sign you, and he's going to make 805 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 2: this a number one record. And I'm finally nineteen ninety four, 806 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 2: I'm going to break through. I'm going to get my 807 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 2: due in America. And I'm supposed to go see him 808 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,399 Speaker 2: on a Monday. And this is a true story about 809 00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,160 Speaker 2: I call up on the Friday. I call up on 810 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,920 Speaker 2: the Monday and I'm saying okay, guys to his assistant 811 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 2: and she answers the phone that she sounds really strange, 812 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 2: and she tells me the story how that weekend, Charlie's 813 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: girlfriend caught him with another girl literally and walked in 814 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 2: the room and shot him dead. And do you remember 815 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:17,680 Speaker 2: when that happened. 816 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,840 Speaker 1: I saw him Friday night, you know, a couple of 817 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:22,160 Speaker 1: days before of a Sunday. 818 00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:22,760 Speaker 2: That happened. 819 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 1: It was very weird. 820 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 2: And I was supposed to see him on the Monday 821 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 2: or the Tuesday. So there you go. It was really weird. 822 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 2: And I just thought of my curt. I think I'm 823 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:32,839 Speaker 2: cursed in America. I am cursed. I mean, I can 824 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:34,440 Speaker 2: play with the biggest people in the world that I 825 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 2: can't seem to get my You know, I sold a 826 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,520 Speaker 2: few million solo albums, just hardly any in America. It 827 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 2: was like so and there was no Internet, so nobody 828 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 2: knew how successful I was around the world. They just 829 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 2: assumed I bombed or you know, I don't know. Steve 830 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:49,920 Speaker 2: Luca there used to ask people because he lived up 831 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 2: my street, or Stevie getting all that money for that 832 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 2: Mercedes Benz or whatever, he thought I was a drug dealer. 833 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 2: I think. 834 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: So, what did you learn making solo records? And how 835 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: do you feel about the status of your solo career today. 836 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 2: I think my solo career was it was two things. 837 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 2: I you know, during those days, you could keep making 838 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 2: records if you had credibility, so if I sold just 839 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,960 Speaker 2: enough records to always have a record deal. But I 840 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 2: never delivered what everyone thought I I just never did, 841 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 2: except for in Japan. I was Japan for some reason. 842 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 2: I would just because there's this huge I wish, I mean, 843 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 2: like people ripping my hair out, and and I did 844 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: well in Germany, and I did well in France and 845 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,400 Speaker 2: and you know, but it's just I would have liked 846 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,040 Speaker 2: to have I would like to have had that, you know, 847 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,920 Speaker 2: a couple albums that sold a few million copies in 848 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:55,560 Speaker 2: the States, because in right now I could probably go 849 00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,279 Speaker 2: make you know, one hundred grand a night playing all 850 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,839 Speaker 2: the festivals still to this day, you know, and now 851 00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:02,760 Speaker 2: I can only do that in a couple of countries. 852 00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 2: But I wish that I could every summer go out 853 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,520 Speaker 2: and do my lallapaloozas and do all that shit, you know. 854 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:12,400 Speaker 2: And that's what not having success in America gets you. 855 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,640 Speaker 2: You don't get that ride where. But you know, I'll 856 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 2: tell you something else. In the two thousandth fix, I 857 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 2: started working at American Idol, and that's when things were 858 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 2: really different because we would have an artist I remember 859 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 2: doing Jordan Sparks. We sold two million albums and they 860 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 2: drop her the next year, So things really changed later on. 861 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 2: So you know, you could sell two million albums and 862 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:32,520 Speaker 2: still nobody give a shit. 863 00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:38,799 Speaker 1: So at this late date, do you still have a 864 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,800 Speaker 1: dream of breaking through as a solo artist in America 865 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:43,359 Speaker 1: or if you put that dream. 866 00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:48,800 Speaker 2: To bid I kind of never really have that dream 867 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,600 Speaker 2: of being a superstar. I just wanted to be able 868 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 2: to I like playing big places. I wanted to be 869 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,760 Speaker 2: able to keep playing the big, big rooms. That's my dream. 870 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 2: But I do. Here's my dream now, Okay. I've written 871 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 2: a lot of songs for a lot of people, all 872 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 2: those Sash Jordan songs and Jeff Healy songs and all 873 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 2: this stuff that I wrote back in the nineties. My 874 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 2: dream is some country person's gonna cut one of them 875 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,040 Speaker 2: and it's gonna go number one, and I'm gonna get 876 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 2: make up fortunes and leave my kid with a ton 877 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,880 Speaker 2: of money. That's what I's That's my dream. 878 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,440 Speaker 1: Okay, how old is your kid sixteen. 879 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,080 Speaker 2: Now, okay, you have. 880 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: The girlfriend who passed who is the mother of your child. 881 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,480 Speaker 2: It's a woman named Karen, Karen Silva, and she was 882 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,160 Speaker 2: one of my best friends and I and she came 883 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 2: in my life when I was at the I just 884 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,759 Speaker 2: I was just lost soul. I was a lost soul. 885 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 2: I was hanging around in La every day with a 886 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,800 Speaker 2: bunch of my buddies that were all Seinfeld writer producers, 887 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,879 Speaker 2: and they were all super rich. And there's a lot 888 00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 2: of drugs and a lot of a lot of booze 889 00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 2: and a lot of drugs, a lot of women, a 890 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 2: lot of booze and a lot of drugs. And I 891 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:58,440 Speaker 2: had my friend and I used to go to Africa 892 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 2: on Safari and she'd come and we do all these 893 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,400 Speaker 2: things together. And she got to the point where she 894 00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 2: was going to be too old to have a child, 895 00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:07,200 Speaker 2: and she was going to have to maybe go to 896 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,000 Speaker 2: a clinic. And I thought to myself, when am I 897 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 2: ever going to be able to get it together? So 898 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:13,799 Speaker 2: I said, let me help you, because I knew she'd 899 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:18,240 Speaker 2: be a fantastic mother, and and it changed my life. 900 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 2: It saved my life. You know. I I work my 901 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:26,239 Speaker 2: ass off now. And I love working, and I got 902 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 2: a kid, you know, and to take care of it, 903 00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 2: I have to set an example. And and she's an 904 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 2: incredible mother. And and we we know we live on 905 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,440 Speaker 2: you know, I got a house here in Austin. It's 906 00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,000 Speaker 2: you know, five thousand square feet. And she was one 907 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:40,239 Speaker 2: side and I live on the other. And we're mom 908 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 2: and dad. We do things together as a family, but 909 00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,480 Speaker 2: we're not a couple. But you know, and my kid's 910 00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,239 Speaker 2: always known what's going on, and we have we have 911 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,000 Speaker 2: a good time, and my kid's doing amazing. 912 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:51,720 Speaker 1: Were you ever a couple? 913 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:58,600 Speaker 2: Rinda early on? Yeah, okay, why do you live in Austin? Well, 914 00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 2: I was, you know, I work in Canada. I was 915 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,360 Speaker 2: a film company in Canada, and I was in Canada. 916 00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 2: We were living on I run the lake. I sold 917 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 2: my house and got rid of my house in Carlsbad, California. 918 00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,000 Speaker 2: Got rid of my house in the Hollywood Hills. I 919 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 2: haven't had a house in Venice Beach. Got rid of that. 920 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 2: I got rid of everything in California, moved to Canada. 921 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 2: And when it was time for my son to start school, 922 00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 2: his mother was adamant. He had to go to a 923 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:25,160 Speaker 2: Waldorf School, And so we went and toured Waldorf schools 924 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,000 Speaker 2: in Toronto and Burlington and East Aurora, New York and 925 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,000 Speaker 2: places where. Because I lived in a place called Niagar 926 00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:33,040 Speaker 2: around the lake, this little town where the War of 927 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 2: eighteen twelve was spot and I was also then working 928 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:38,880 Speaker 2: at the Smithsonian. I took a job at the Smithsonian 929 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,319 Speaker 2: National Museum of the American Indian where I created the 930 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,960 Speaker 2: exhibit that later would become the film Rumbled the Indians 931 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,560 Speaker 2: of Rock the World. So I was flying in and 932 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,719 Speaker 2: out of DC, and I was shooting a lot of 933 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,600 Speaker 2: stuff that was ended up in the movie Rumble, and 934 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 2: I went to Austin to shoot one of these Jimmy 935 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,760 Speaker 2: Hendricks experienced things and talked to Janie Hendrix about Jimmy, 936 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,279 Speaker 2: and you know, I talked to a lot of guys. 937 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 2: Brad Whitford and they're all my different friends that I've 938 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,640 Speaker 2: had forever in the music business were there. And while 939 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 2: in Austin, I ran into a lot of my old 940 00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 2: music business friends that were that, you know, chewed a 941 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 2: lot of the same dirt as me. And when you 942 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:19,239 Speaker 2: have somebody that really knows what you went through, it's 943 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,160 Speaker 2: a lot easier to communicate because a lot of people 944 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 2: didn't get that life. So my neighbor's Charlie Sexton, you 945 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 2: know who. Charlie and I were pal since I was 946 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,200 Speaker 2: in rod Stewart, you know. And Charlie was playing with 947 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,399 Speaker 2: Bob Dylan at the time. And I bought a house 948 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 2: around the corner, and his kid was going to the 949 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:36,680 Speaker 2: same school. And Marty, Marty McGuire from the Dixie Chicks, 950 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,120 Speaker 2: her daughter was in my son's class, and that Waldorf 951 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,560 Speaker 2: was happening and it was a great price in Walt 952 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,080 Speaker 2: and Austin had still had music then before it got 953 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,200 Speaker 2: the tech takeover. And I bought a house here right 954 00:45:48,239 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 2: next to the school. We just said we're moving to Austin. 955 00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:50,759 Speaker 2: So that's what we did. 956 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,040 Speaker 1: Okay, So you do do not live in that same house? 957 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I live in that same house. 958 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: Okay. So you talk about the tech take you and 959 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:03,680 Speaker 1: I've talked to other musicians who've moved further and further 960 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: out from the center of town. What's going on with 961 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: music in Austin now? 962 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:09,799 Speaker 2: I don't think there's such a thing. I think it's 963 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 2: all bullshit. First of all, you know, it used to 964 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 2: be cool because you could go see Junior Brown on 965 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 2: a Sunday afternoon and a beer was two bucks and 966 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,520 Speaker 2: you could park your car and leave it all night. 967 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 2: And this was only eleven years ago, ten eleven, twelve 968 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,240 Speaker 2: years ago. You know, a house here on an acre 969 00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 2: for what the down payment of my San Diego house 970 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 2: was right for the whole house on an acre, you know. 971 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,400 Speaker 2: And I remember calling Great Cabin, one of my Seinfeld buddies, 972 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:35,840 Speaker 2: and I say, hey, I just bout a house. It 973 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 2: was two hundred and fifty three thousand dollars. He's like what, 974 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 2: I goes, Yeah, he goes what He's like, he just 975 00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,800 Speaker 2: you know, now that house is probably two million bucks. 976 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 2: But it's like, you know, it was this little town 977 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,680 Speaker 2: that was so cool and every and there's all these 978 00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:56,160 Speaker 2: people around and it was like they had great restaurants 979 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 2: and there's music everywhere. But all of a sudden, Allehandra 980 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 2: Escaveto had to move out and Junior Brown's gone, and 981 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:05,280 Speaker 2: nobody could afford. The rents went bonkers. The rents were nuts, 982 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,919 Speaker 2: and then the housing prizes went nuts because the tech 983 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:13,560 Speaker 2: people kept coming in. And you know, tech people, they 984 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 2: don't have a realistic idea of money. Someone gives them 985 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 2: a ton of stock, and then they're like, okay, that 986 00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 2: seems cheap, and they have no A lot of them 987 00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 2: have no artistic sense. There's no style, so they all 988 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,480 Speaker 2: look the same. I'm pretty soon every place you'd look 989 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:29,520 Speaker 2: downtown had every guy had a beard, and they sit 990 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 2: there with an ipa and I couldn't even find a 991 00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,680 Speaker 2: corona anymore. But my kid was doing so good in school. 992 00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,080 Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to get 993 00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 2: out of here because my kid is all about my kid. 994 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 2: So I'm still here because he's now at sophomore in 995 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:43,440 Speaker 2: high school. 996 00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:46,319 Speaker 1: And is he what school does he go to now? 997 00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 2: We used to go to the Waldorf and now he 998 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,280 Speaker 2: goes to Saint Michael's Academy. 999 00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:54,319 Speaker 1: Okay, I got to get into this. What's it like 1000 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 1: with both of you living in the same house. Does 1001 00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: your the mother of your son? Does she bring people home? 1002 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: Do you bring people home? Do you get jealous? What's 1003 00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: it like you have dinner together? 1004 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,720 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, we have dinner, and we go on vacations 1005 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 2: together and everything, or you know, I get a sweet 1006 00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 2: and I sleep on a couch and no, but no, 1007 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 2: we we have one goal and it's to raise that son. 1008 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,439 Speaker 2: Of ours. We don't. I have no ego. I've I've 1009 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,360 Speaker 2: done it. You know, if you knew me, Bobby probably 1010 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:26,560 Speaker 2: saw me around back when I was a kid. I 1011 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,879 Speaker 2: had had no no, no. I had everything you could 1012 00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 2: ask for as a guy, constantly everywhere. And you know, 1013 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:34,680 Speaker 2: when you get to hang out with Keith Richards and people, 1014 00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:39,080 Speaker 2: then you can multiply it by twenty. And I have 1015 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 2: no fascination with anything. I've never had a hard time 1016 00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,439 Speaker 2: with any stuff. So for me, when we're at home, 1017 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 2: we're all about being mom and dad, and I don't 1018 00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,000 Speaker 2: ask her what she does, and she doesn't ask me 1019 00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 2: what I do, And my priority is him and her 1020 00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 2: to make sure they're taking care of it. Everything's great. 1021 00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:56,600 Speaker 2: I work, she stays home and she takes care of 1022 00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 2: our son and he gets a full time mom and 1023 00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,000 Speaker 2: I work my ass off, and when he turns eighteen, 1024 00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:06,759 Speaker 2: I'll probably buy two houses and put him in a 1025 00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:10,040 Speaker 2: trust and she can live where in it as she wants. 1026 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:13,640 Speaker 2: And everything's about him. Everything's about him. So we don't 1027 00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 2: have any of those issues, and I don't at least. 1028 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 1: Let's go back. How did you get the gig? 1029 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:18,920 Speaker 2: On? Bill? 1030 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:19,359 Speaker 1: And Ted? 1031 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,759 Speaker 2: Well? So in San Diego there was a guy called 1032 00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,440 Speaker 2: Mark Levy. Mark Levy was an agent and he man. 1033 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 2: He was an agent for some of the really big 1034 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:30,759 Speaker 2: local bands in San Diego, where I'm from, and he 1035 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 2: moved to LA and somehow he had hooked up with 1036 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 2: Randy Phillips. And you know Randy Phillips, and I know 1037 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,239 Speaker 2: you don't. Of course, Mark Levy, when he was looking 1038 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:42,800 Speaker 2: for the guitar player for Andy Taylor helping Randy Phillips, 1039 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 2: he knew me and he called me, and of course 1040 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,360 Speaker 2: I got the gig because I just nailed every audition 1041 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,480 Speaker 2: when I was young. And later on he said, do 1042 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:55,480 Speaker 2: you know David Kershenbaum And I said, I hadn't know 1043 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 2: the name from reading it on liner notes? You know 1044 00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,320 Speaker 2: me and liner notes? Did I read liner notes and 1045 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,440 Speaker 2: liner notes life? I feel bad for kids today. They 1046 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 2: don't have liner notes to understand who's doing what. But 1047 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,680 Speaker 2: David Kussebaum's you know Joe Jackson. The first two Joe 1048 00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:09,719 Speaker 2: Jackson albums are like bibles to me. I love him, 1049 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,120 Speaker 2: so of course I know. You know David kushimbamb Is. 1050 00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,960 Speaker 2: He wants to meet me because he's looking. He got 1051 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,319 Speaker 2: a studio called Power Tracks on Kouwanga there next to 1052 00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:25,080 Speaker 2: next to the old Shandhara, and he was need some 1053 00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 2: help and so he met me and that's when he said. 1054 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 2: What happened was they had known I'd played with Parliament Funkadelic. 1055 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 2: They there's a guy called Gene Page who used to 1056 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,080 Speaker 2: do all the arrangements from the big Motown stuff. There's 1057 00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 2: Geen Page was this Motown arranger. You know, he did 1058 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,319 Speaker 2: Love Unlimited Orchestra, you know, for Berry White and all this, 1059 00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,960 Speaker 2: do all the string stuff and everything. You know, he's 1060 00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:52,240 Speaker 2: a genius. And he had these sixteen year old rapper 1061 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:56,960 Speaker 2: kids and they were called uh I forget what they're 1062 00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 2: called right now, but there were these two kids. It's 1063 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,959 Speaker 2: sixteen years old and they rapped. And in nineteen eighty seven, 1064 00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:05,319 Speaker 2: I don't care what anyone says, no, not that many 1065 00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:06,880 Speaker 2: people in LA were knowing what was going on with 1066 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:10,520 Speaker 2: rap music was much bigger in New York and nobody 1067 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,160 Speaker 2: was dealing with Doctor Dray then, because he had a 1068 00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:14,759 Speaker 2: band called the La Dream Team and you'd listen to 1069 00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:18,399 Speaker 2: the Stevie Wonders station called kjla's Kind of Joy, Love 1070 00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:22,400 Speaker 2: and Happiness KJLH, and you'd hear the dream Team, The 1071 00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 2: Dree dream Team is in the house, you know, and 1072 00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,680 Speaker 2: they sampled. Everybody used the sampler. All of a sudden 1073 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:30,920 Speaker 2: was new, the new sampler and blah blah blah. And 1074 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:32,759 Speaker 2: I kind of got into that stuff because I liked 1075 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:35,959 Speaker 2: one DMC. Like I said before, So David Kushier mom says, 1076 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,239 Speaker 2: I need someone who knows about rap music. They to 1077 00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:40,000 Speaker 2: just call it rap music. And I go, I do. 1078 00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,960 Speaker 2: I got it, And I know these two kids Gene 1079 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,640 Speaker 2: Page introduced me to, so David didn't know. So David 1080 00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:48,319 Speaker 2: had me come in the studio and it was a 1081 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:50,640 Speaker 2: movie called Big Shots and he was the music supervisor 1082 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,240 Speaker 2: for it for Lori Mar I think it was or something. 1083 00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:55,840 Speaker 2: So I cut this song called put on the Brakes 1084 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,440 Speaker 2: with the two rappers. They used it in the movie 1085 00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 2: and in the Atlantic signed I put out a twelve 1086 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,480 Speaker 2: inch and so now now it's and it says produced 1087 00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:06,279 Speaker 2: by David Kirshienbaum and Stevie No Wonder Solace because my 1088 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,560 Speaker 2: nickname was No Wonder back thanks Bootsy Collins used to 1089 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,800 Speaker 2: call me Stevie No Wonder And and all of a sudden, 1090 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,880 Speaker 2: David's like, come on, let's keep going. So then I 1091 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,120 Speaker 2: start working. He's got in the studio at that time, 1092 00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:22,040 Speaker 2: he was doing what's his name, the guy with the glasses. 1093 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:29,799 Speaker 2: It's saying somedays some way, Oh, Marshall, Marshall Crenshaw. So 1094 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,400 Speaker 2: he's producing Marshall Crenshaw. And he has me working in 1095 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,319 Speaker 2: the studio from seven pm until you know, whenever. I 1096 00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,319 Speaker 2: drop all night every night on soundtrack stuff. So the 1097 00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:42,600 Speaker 2: next movie we get is this one called it was 1098 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:46,319 Speaker 2: called Action Jackson with Carl Withers and Vanity and they 1099 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,440 Speaker 2: need more rap songs, so I bring in bring in 1100 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:53,399 Speaker 2: the boys again, you know, And I do another one 1101 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:55,880 Speaker 2: and it becomes another twelve inch for Atlantic. It says 1102 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 2: produced by David Kirshiabamb and Stevie Solace, you know. And 1103 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,480 Speaker 2: so I this time, now it's eighty seven, I'm producing 1104 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,359 Speaker 2: them there and I'm cutting my demos at night in 1105 00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:06,240 Speaker 2: the studio when it's empty. I can work there whenever 1106 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 2: I want. And uh, he comes to me one day, 1107 00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,759 Speaker 2: David Kushimbaum, and he says to me, we got to 1108 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,439 Speaker 2: go see this band that we have to produce because 1109 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,760 Speaker 2: they want him in the bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure 1110 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:23,759 Speaker 2: soundtrack album. And I really didn't know much about Bill 1111 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 2: and Ted's excellent Adventure. Nobody did. Really. It wasn't like 1112 00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 2: some blockbuster budget or anything, you know, and uh, it 1113 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:33,040 Speaker 2: was a Delentis picture and it got dropped. They dropped it, 1114 00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 2: and I think Lormar somebody again picked it up or 1115 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,160 Speaker 2: vice versus something like that was Lormar and the delarent 1116 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:38,839 Speaker 2: just picked up with it. But we never even thought 1117 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,040 Speaker 2: it was going to come out. But he made me 1118 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,839 Speaker 2: go see this band, and I had to produce them. 1119 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,000 Speaker 2: And I had no say in it. David said produce him. 1120 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,560 Speaker 2: I had to produce them. And it was a band 1121 00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:51,759 Speaker 2: called Warrant. You remember Warrant this they had worn Cherry Pie. Yeah, 1122 00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,920 Speaker 2: it was way before Cherry Pie. So the Warrants this 1123 00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,440 Speaker 2: big buzz band in Hollywood and they're you know, they're 1124 00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,880 Speaker 2: playing everywhere, and I kind of like poison or whatever. 1125 00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,360 Speaker 2: And I hated that kind of music because again I 1126 00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:06,200 Speaker 2: thought the eighties hair metal, you know, unless it was 1127 00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:08,160 Speaker 2: you know, I liked the bon Jovi, you know, because 1128 00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:11,279 Speaker 2: the songwriting was so good on you know, you give 1129 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 2: love a bad names. But I hated the whole thing. 1130 00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,719 Speaker 2: There was a million of those eighties bands that are 1131 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,760 Speaker 2: just horrible, you know, and they're horrible, and I didn't 1132 00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,680 Speaker 2: like Warrant, but I tell David, David, I do I 1133 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:24,239 Speaker 2: got to do it, because yeah, you got to do it. 1134 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:26,920 Speaker 2: So I go to the rehearsal with David and those 1135 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,319 Speaker 2: kidchers my age, you know, I'm the same age as then, 1136 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,839 Speaker 2: and I met him and I fell in love with him. 1137 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:36,800 Speaker 2: They were the most amazing, amazing guys. They were just wonderful, 1138 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,759 Speaker 2: enthusiastic and sincere, and they worked really hard and they 1139 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,640 Speaker 2: wanted to be great. They had no egos. And ironically, 1140 00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:45,920 Speaker 2: you saw the last week or whatever, I got to 1141 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,400 Speaker 2: San Diego Lifetime Achievement Award and you're talking about at 1142 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,720 Speaker 2: the music thing there in San Diego, like, and Jerry 1143 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:53,960 Speaker 2: from Warrant showed up. I saw him backstage. He came 1144 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,839 Speaker 2: to see me. Yeah, one hundred years later, right. So 1145 00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:02,320 Speaker 2: I produced Warrant for the soundtrack for Kushimbaum. Aaron Jakovis 1146 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:05,720 Speaker 2: was trying to sign him at A and M and 1147 00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:10,000 Speaker 2: Columbius came in and swooped up and signed him, and 1148 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:13,760 Speaker 2: so we pulled them off the Bill and Ted's soundtrack. 1149 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,360 Speaker 2: So now I'm not thinking about Bill and Ted for 1150 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,920 Speaker 2: a while I'm working on another shit for David and 1151 00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,759 Speaker 2: my own stuff, and it was not was and I 1152 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 2: get it. David comes up to me in the office. 1153 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,600 Speaker 2: I go in the office of power tracks and he goes, okay, 1154 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:35,080 Speaker 2: this movie Bill and Ted. They're realizing that the soundtrack 1155 00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,640 Speaker 2: the score, not the soundtrack. I'm sorry, the score. It's 1156 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,440 Speaker 2: a story about these two kids that would want to 1157 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,200 Speaker 2: be in a rock band and they play rock guitar, 1158 00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,600 Speaker 2: and it's all about this guitar and this rock and 1159 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,680 Speaker 2: roll and there's not one ounce of rock and roll 1160 00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:50,440 Speaker 2: in the score. In the score, and Amos Newman's Amos 1161 00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:54,080 Speaker 2: Newman's brother I think did the score. It was either 1162 00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,080 Speaker 2: Amos Newman's brother or Amos Newman's cousin. I forget Amos 1163 00:55:58,080 --> 00:55:59,760 Speaker 2: told me which one it was. I just can't remember. 1164 00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:04,200 Speaker 2: So they hired me. Stephen Herrick was the director and 1165 00:56:04,239 --> 00:56:06,880 Speaker 2: he'd only done one other movie, okay, Stephen Herrick that 1166 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:09,879 Speaker 2: went on to do you know mister Holland's Opus, and 1167 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,719 Speaker 2: I think he did one hundred and one Dalmations and 1168 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,880 Speaker 2: he didn you know, Three Musketeers and rock Star. You know, 1169 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:17,520 Speaker 2: he did a ton of shit, but this was he 1170 00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,759 Speaker 2: was still young. So he had this soundtrack and this 1171 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:24,040 Speaker 2: music in there, and it was like it was like 1172 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:26,200 Speaker 2: a traditional score, and between me and you was kind 1173 00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,000 Speaker 2: of a crappy score. It sounded like something I could 1174 00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:29,839 Speaker 2: have done on a fair light, even though they used 1175 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,760 Speaker 2: an orchestra. You know, it just wasn't great. No disrespect 1176 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,680 Speaker 2: to Ames's cousin, but it just wasn't great. So I 1177 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:41,920 Speaker 2: rescored the whole film and played guitar over the score. 1178 00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,000 Speaker 2: I rescored over the score, which is really weird, right, 1179 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:47,359 Speaker 2: And then I also had to do the score where 1180 00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:49,160 Speaker 2: they were jumping around and didn't know how to play 1181 00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:52,839 Speaker 2: you know, Bill AND's head, and I was really took. 1182 00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:57,920 Speaker 2: I took it very serious. Everything that I did when 1183 00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,840 Speaker 2: they were jumping around and the guitar and trying, and 1184 00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:03,080 Speaker 2: I saw, I'm so horrible. Well, everything I did it 1185 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,640 Speaker 2: sounded horrible to me, sounded fake. It sounded like a cocky, 1186 00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:10,360 Speaker 2: egotistical guy trying to play like a dummy. And I 1187 00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:12,959 Speaker 2: felt like I was making fun of Bill and Ted 1188 00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:15,520 Speaker 2: and I didn't like that, And I know that sounds nuts, 1189 00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:19,160 Speaker 2: but I felt like I was disrespecting them, those characters 1190 00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:22,520 Speaker 2: by just trying to be I look at how shitty 1191 00:57:22,560 --> 00:57:26,200 Speaker 2: I am. And so I ended up. What I ended 1192 00:57:26,280 --> 00:57:29,960 Speaker 2: up doing was I turned my guitar upside down and 1193 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,840 Speaker 2: I played it left handed. So when you see those 1194 00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:36,200 Speaker 2: parts in the movie and it sounds I'm actually trying 1195 00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,520 Speaker 2: to play chords and I'm trying, but it sounds like shit. 1196 00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,160 Speaker 2: And that's how I did the wild stallions. Okay, so 1197 00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:46,480 Speaker 2: then that's over, and i'd score over. I score over 1198 00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:49,160 Speaker 2: this Robbie rob song and do because they really wanted 1199 00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:51,640 Speaker 2: you too, and they couldn't get YouTube, so they got 1200 00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,760 Speaker 2: Robbie rob song called in Time, but they wanted me 1201 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:56,240 Speaker 2: to put so I put all this guitar over the 1202 00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:58,600 Speaker 2: top that was like like the edge. So it's only 1203 00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:01,080 Speaker 2: in the soundtrack that way, and there's no version of 1204 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,760 Speaker 2: that that exists other than the soundtrack version, which became 1205 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,360 Speaker 2: this cult internet cult classic of Robbie Robin Time featuring 1206 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:10,440 Speaker 2: Stevie Solace. That version, I don't know why, so you 1207 00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,360 Speaker 2: can find it online. It's still like it's got a 1208 00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,640 Speaker 2: whole massive fan base just for that weird version. But 1209 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:22,920 Speaker 2: he says the movie's done, it not testing well, the 1210 00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,240 Speaker 2: ending's not testing well, you know, and I'm like, okay, 1211 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:27,840 Speaker 2: I don't even know what that means really, because I'm 1212 00:58:27,880 --> 00:58:32,000 Speaker 2: stupid kid. And he goes, Steven wants us to go 1213 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,280 Speaker 2: into the Palisades and on Monday night or so whatever 1214 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:38,400 Speaker 2: it was, and we're going to shoot this new ending 1215 00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,320 Speaker 2: and I need you in it. And I go, what 1216 00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:43,280 Speaker 2: do you mean? He goes, they want you to play 1217 00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,080 Speaker 2: some kind of guitar solo. I go, okay, So we 1218 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,320 Speaker 2: go to the Palisades. They got somebody's house, and they 1219 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,480 Speaker 2: got the phone booth in the garage, and they got 1220 00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:54,920 Speaker 2: all this. You know, the set decorator made this person's 1221 00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,200 Speaker 2: garage look like the set of Bill and Ted. It 1222 00:58:57,240 --> 00:59:01,760 Speaker 2: was in a garage, and and Keanu, who was completely unknown then, 1223 00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,000 Speaker 2: and the other guy I'm blanking on his name right now. 1224 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,240 Speaker 2: They were all there, and George Carlin was there, and 1225 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:14,280 Speaker 2: so they dressed me in George Carlin in a matching outfit. 1226 00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,480 Speaker 2: And I got to share the share of a dressing 1227 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,200 Speaker 2: room Winnebago with George Carlin. So me and George Colin 1228 00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:23,880 Speaker 2: would sit there all night, and he told me the 1229 00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:26,880 Speaker 2: most insane stories I asked him about. I go went 1230 00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,520 Speaker 2: out a little kid. I saw you walk out on 1231 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,880 Speaker 2: like like the Grammys or Academy Awards or something, and 1232 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,400 Speaker 2: they go, ladies and gentlemen, George Carlin, and he walked 1233 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:37,160 Speaker 2: out and he stood at the microphone and he didn't 1234 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:40,880 Speaker 2: say one word, not one word, and it was dead silent. 1235 00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:43,480 Speaker 2: I mean dead silent for like at least it felt 1236 00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,479 Speaker 2: like an eternity, and all of a sudden, one person 1237 00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:49,320 Speaker 2: kind of goes, and then another person, and then by 1238 00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 2: the end of it, everyone was laughing, and he just says, 1239 00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:54,520 Speaker 2: thank you very much, and he walked off the stage. 1240 00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:56,680 Speaker 2: I don't know if you ever saw that, but it 1241 00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,680 Speaker 2: was like an keep going. You got to find it. 1242 01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,040 Speaker 2: And he said to me, he goes, Oh my god, 1243 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,720 Speaker 2: he goes. He goes, I had a plan, he goes, 1244 01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:06,280 Speaker 2: He told me the whole thing. He says, I was 1245 01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,360 Speaker 2: going to try this experiment. He goes, but I had 1246 01:00:08,360 --> 01:00:10,320 Speaker 2: a bail at it one minute and he says, I 1247 01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:13,120 Speaker 2: was dying. I was standing there, just dying, because he 1248 01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:14,520 Speaker 2: was standing there at the mic just kind of looking 1249 01:00:14,560 --> 01:00:16,640 Speaker 2: at people, just kind of looking around, looking at people 1250 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,480 Speaker 2: and not saying anything. And he said he was dying, 1251 01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,640 Speaker 2: and right before he broke he heard that first laugh. 1252 01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:24,920 Speaker 2: So he goes, hold on, just hold on. Then he 1253 01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,840 Speaker 2: heard the second he goes, okay, to hold on, and 1254 01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,240 Speaker 2: then he said he felt the confidence and just not 1255 01:00:29,360 --> 01:00:32,080 Speaker 2: say anything. And so I was one of the most 1256 01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:35,480 Speaker 2: fascinating nights of my life. So then after that, Stephen 1257 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:39,520 Speaker 2: Harrett calls they they stand me on a soap box 1258 01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:44,840 Speaker 2: and Keanu and Alex Winter and the two girls they 1259 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,520 Speaker 2: stand around me and they're staring at me and they're 1260 01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,320 Speaker 2: shooting me from the neck down. Okay, now it's like September. 1261 01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,600 Speaker 2: So and I surf and I'm at the beach olch 1262 01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:56,360 Speaker 2: so my hands and I'm a Native American and my 1263 01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:00,919 Speaker 2: hands are dark brown. Keep that in mind. My hands 1264 01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:03,720 Speaker 2: are dark brown. They shoot me from the neck down, 1265 01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:05,680 Speaker 2: and I go, what do you want me to play? 1266 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:11,000 Speaker 2: And Steven goes, I don't know, just something crazy, and 1267 01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:13,480 Speaker 2: so I think. The first thing I think of is 1268 01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:16,880 Speaker 2: the opening chord to Eruption No I, A big a chord. 1269 01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:19,200 Speaker 2: And then I just go and I think this is 1270 01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,160 Speaker 2: a comedy. I don't take it seriously as a musician. 1271 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,720 Speaker 2: I think it's a comedy. And I just start moving 1272 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,560 Speaker 2: my fingers in the most crazy way and I'm playing 1273 01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:30,760 Speaker 2: air guitar. Okay, it's just air guitar and I'm moving him. 1274 01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,680 Speaker 2: If you're look at like new stuff that you would 1275 01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,080 Speaker 2: never do. And it was like I was trying to 1276 01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:40,400 Speaker 2: be ridiculous. And then I finished that, and then they 1277 01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,280 Speaker 2: have George stand on the box and he holds the guitar, 1278 01:01:43,560 --> 01:01:46,280 Speaker 2: and then they picture his face. He's doing all his 1279 01:01:46,320 --> 01:01:48,840 Speaker 2: facial expressions that you see in the movie. And now 1280 01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,200 Speaker 2: if you look, now, George Carlin's neck is as white 1281 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,080 Speaker 2: as a ghost, and so is his face. And then 1282 01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,400 Speaker 2: look at the hands, they're almost black. Okay, now you'll 1283 01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,160 Speaker 2: notice it, and you'll be like, I never noticed that, 1284 01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:01,120 Speaker 2: And so that it's always been my big joke I 1285 01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,960 Speaker 2: laugh about. So we do this thing, and the next 1286 01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:07,160 Speaker 2: day I go back to Kirshienbaum's studio to power tracks, 1287 01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:08,560 Speaker 2: and I got a score ahead. I got a score 1288 01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,760 Speaker 2: to what I did. And so all I did was 1289 01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,760 Speaker 2: I watched my fingers and I played in this. I 1290 01:02:13,800 --> 01:02:15,720 Speaker 2: just tried to emulate exactly what I was doing and 1291 01:02:15,840 --> 01:02:19,840 Speaker 2: just followed my fingers. It was no no mathematics involved. 1292 01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:22,000 Speaker 2: I never took a lesson, so it certainly wasn't I'm 1293 01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 2: going to go from this to that to this kind 1294 01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:27,840 Speaker 2: of movement and nothing. It was just nonsense cut till 1295 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,320 Speaker 2: the movie comes out. The solo at the end becomes 1296 01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,000 Speaker 2: the iconic thing. And now every Bill and Ted movie 1297 01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 2: has like the next one with Steve Vai, and then 1298 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,960 Speaker 2: the third one was just somebody else. And it all 1299 01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:42,680 Speaker 2: started as a joke. Now I'm in London hanging out 1300 01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,360 Speaker 2: with Jimmy Dunlap, you know, I don't know, sometime ten 1301 01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:46,880 Speaker 2: years ago or twelve years ig, I don't know what 1302 01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:48,480 Speaker 2: it was been, and I'm having a drink in the 1303 01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:50,720 Speaker 2: afternoon and they had a barn and soho, and these 1304 01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,720 Speaker 2: kids came up and wanted my autograph from London and 1305 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,880 Speaker 2: they go, we're studying at the Conservative yor some music 1306 01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,520 Speaker 2: thing there, and they said, our fine, our whole thesis 1307 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:03,840 Speaker 2: is based on what you did in Bill and Ted. 1308 01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,080 Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, yeah, what did I do? And 1309 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:07,600 Speaker 2: they go, well, you know, you go from a pan 1310 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:10,320 Speaker 2: of time to a you know, mix, a loading to 1311 01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,080 Speaker 2: a blah blah blah and then back up to a 1312 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,960 Speaker 2: ball and I'm like look, and I'm going wow. I 1313 01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,520 Speaker 2: didn't have the heart to tell them I just played 1314 01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,400 Speaker 2: air guitar, but they analyzed what I did, so again, 1315 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:24,240 Speaker 2: was I smarter than anybody else? Or am I the 1316 01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:26,240 Speaker 2: dumb ass and the jokes on me? Maybe I was 1317 01:03:26,360 --> 01:03:28,680 Speaker 2: channeling shit that was this cool and I had no idea, 1318 01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:31,640 Speaker 2: and I should just shut my mouth because they seem 1319 01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:34,240 Speaker 2: them they seem to think it's fascinating, and I was like, 1320 01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:35,640 Speaker 2: I don't even know what the hell it is. The 1321 01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,640 Speaker 2: segrets just purely so kind of like you become kind 1322 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,440 Speaker 2: of legendary in a funny way when I die. I 1323 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:43,400 Speaker 2: was hanging out with Kunta Reeves just a few months 1324 01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,200 Speaker 2: ago in Austin, and I took Charlie Sexton, and I 1325 01:03:45,280 --> 01:03:48,000 Speaker 2: took the actor Graham Green to meet Keanu and went 1326 01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,160 Speaker 2: to a show and Kan and I were talking because 1327 01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 2: they had just done Bill and Ted three or it 1328 01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,040 Speaker 2: just came out the year before them, and I said, 1329 01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:55,760 Speaker 2: you know what, I'm gonna do all these things like 1330 01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,120 Speaker 2: Jagger and blah blah blah and rumble and whatever they 1331 01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:01,960 Speaker 2: and they're on my tombstone. It's gonna say I'm the 1332 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:03,000 Speaker 2: guy that did Bill and Ted. 1333 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:12,680 Speaker 1: Okay, we even say Bill and Ted blows up? How 1334 01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:14,160 Speaker 1: does that affect your career? 1335 01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,840 Speaker 2: I just I'm like the guy I do was not 1336 01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:21,600 Speaker 2: was it's number one. I played with Rod Stewart. He's 1337 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:23,919 Speaker 2: three and a half million records, eighteen months sold out. 1338 01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:28,200 Speaker 2: It's like what you might call it. Everybody wants me 1339 01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:29,840 Speaker 2: and I'm in La and it's like I got a 1340 01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,000 Speaker 2: huge contract on the island and I'm it was like 1341 01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:35,240 Speaker 2: I could, you could, I could do It was like 1342 01:04:35,280 --> 01:04:37,919 Speaker 2: I was could do anything. So then in ninety three, 1343 01:04:37,920 --> 01:04:39,520 Speaker 2: when I needed a break from everything and I was 1344 01:04:39,560 --> 01:04:42,400 Speaker 2: changing record labels, you know, I had been working with 1345 01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,760 Speaker 2: Terrence Trent Darby. His name is Sonona Maitreya now he 1346 01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:46,320 Speaker 2: changed his name and I actually just had lunch of 1347 01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 2: them in Italy about three four weeks ago. But he 1348 01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:51,200 Speaker 2: he calls me and he's in La now, and so 1349 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,960 Speaker 2: I go work on his album and then Michael Lipman says, 1350 01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:56,960 Speaker 2: you got to be Terrence's music director. We're going on 1351 01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,920 Speaker 2: tour Grand Rand and I'm like okay, So you know, 1352 01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:02,680 Speaker 2: so I go do that for a year and I'm 1353 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,560 Speaker 2: and now I'm an MD. So I'm producing records and 1354 01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:07,240 Speaker 2: I'm a music director and I'm the guy in charge 1355 01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:10,040 Speaker 2: of hiring people. So every musician's like up my ass 1356 01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,400 Speaker 2: because they all want gigs and it seems like I 1357 01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:14,160 Speaker 2: just had my pick of all the gigs, and I 1358 01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,720 Speaker 2: had had it this way for a long time. You know. 1359 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,600 Speaker 2: It's just really lucky, really really lucky. And I have 1360 01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:23,040 Speaker 2: music directs still to this day, tons of stuff. You know. 1361 01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,760 Speaker 1: So how did Bill Graham end up being your manager? 1362 01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:30,560 Speaker 2: That buzz going we talked about and around eighty six 1363 01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:34,040 Speaker 2: eighty seven in LA and somebody introduced me to Morty Wiggins, 1364 01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:38,120 Speaker 2: and Morty had signed Morty had signed Ivan Neville. So 1365 01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:40,640 Speaker 2: Morty was thinking, I'd like you to work with Ivan Neville. 1366 01:05:40,680 --> 01:05:42,200 Speaker 2: And I didn't know who Ivan Neville was because I was, 1367 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,920 Speaker 2: you know, an educated guy from San Diego, surfed and skateboard. 1368 01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:46,400 Speaker 2: I didn't know the Neville brothers. I didn't know any 1369 01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:50,920 Speaker 2: of that shit. And so he arranged. Morty arranged for 1370 01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,840 Speaker 2: me and Ivan Neville to meet because he hadn't recorded 1371 01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:56,439 Speaker 2: his first record. If my ancestors could see me now, 1372 01:05:57,800 --> 01:05:59,880 Speaker 2: and then they saying that Dan Reid network. So they 1373 01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:02,760 Speaker 2: had all these diverse multicultural bands. Dan Reid had a 1374 01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:06,040 Speaker 2: couple African Americans in the band, and Ivan was an 1375 01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:10,120 Speaker 2: African American, a part native played Creole. You know, they 1376 01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:12,920 Speaker 2: had all these people of color, and so Mordy started 1377 01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:18,040 Speaker 2: hearing my demos, and Morty signed me, and he signed 1378 01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:21,240 Speaker 2: me before I joined Rod Stewart and he started developing me. 1379 01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,760 Speaker 2: And so I was with Bill Graham, and I got 1380 01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:27,880 Speaker 2: to tell you, Bill Graham, there was only two people 1381 01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,920 Speaker 2: that I was ever starstruck around. Maybe a little bit 1382 01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:32,440 Speaker 2: when Bowie would come talk to me. I was a 1383 01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:34,520 Speaker 2: little bit because I was just love Bowie so much, 1384 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:39,320 Speaker 2: but really uncomfortably starstruck. I was always really uncomfortably starstruck 1385 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:40,920 Speaker 2: when Bill Graham would come sit with me and talk. 1386 01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:42,920 Speaker 2: Because Bill was just like he had this in charisma. 1387 01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,000 Speaker 2: A lot of people hated him, like Rod stories to 1388 01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,760 Speaker 2: that guy's are very blaslah blah. But I thought he 1389 01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:49,680 Speaker 2: was the most fascinating guy and I thought he was 1390 01:06:49,760 --> 01:06:53,760 Speaker 2: hilarious and he would I felt just I was all 1391 01:06:53,760 --> 01:06:55,320 Speaker 2: geeked up around him all the time. He was like 1392 01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:57,720 Speaker 2: he had so much star power, you know. And the 1393 01:06:57,800 --> 01:06:59,880 Speaker 2: other guy was really geeked up around was George Harrison. 1394 01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:01,880 Speaker 2: George Harrison sitting at my table and buy me drinks, 1395 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,040 Speaker 2: and I'd be like, I just I just lose my 1396 01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,280 Speaker 2: cool completely. But Bill Graham had that effect on me. 1397 01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:11,920 Speaker 1: Okay, when you were getting called to play in England, 1398 01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,520 Speaker 1: et cetera. Did you have a manager? Were you fielding 1399 01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:15,400 Speaker 1: all that yourself? 1400 01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,240 Speaker 2: Oh? That myself? Man? Yeah, But you know I had friends, 1401 01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:23,320 Speaker 2: you know, I had friends that were smart and and 1402 01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:26,440 Speaker 2: you know, like Ken Kushnik was Don was his manager, 1403 01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:28,280 Speaker 2: and David Passik and they would help me. They go, 1404 01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:29,560 Speaker 2: you need to buy a suit because we're doing the 1405 01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:30,680 Speaker 2: top of the pop. So I don't know how to 1406 01:07:30,680 --> 01:07:32,560 Speaker 2: buy a suit. So they, you know, they well, you 1407 01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,480 Speaker 2: don't spend more than one hundred and fifty dollars. You know. 1408 01:07:34,520 --> 01:07:36,480 Speaker 2: They were like babysitters almost, like you know, we're all 1409 01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:40,040 Speaker 2: like a bunch of dummies. And you know, now if 1410 01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,120 Speaker 2: you go see the Walk to Dinosaur video or spying 1411 01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:43,680 Speaker 2: a house eleven and all that, you'll see me back 1412 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,080 Speaker 2: there going, oh fuck, that's Stevie. 1413 01:07:45,360 --> 01:07:47,800 Speaker 1: Okay. How'd you know how much to charge? 1414 01:07:49,160 --> 01:07:51,080 Speaker 2: I don't know how I knew that, but I didn't 1415 01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:55,560 Speaker 2: and I'm sure I didn't charge enough, you know, because money. 1416 01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:59,040 Speaker 2: I needed money. I remember Kurshian mom. You know, if 1417 01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:01,520 Speaker 2: they were to say, hey, to produce this track and 1418 01:08:01,600 --> 01:08:03,840 Speaker 2: we're just gonna give you a payout, just take two grand, 1419 01:08:03,880 --> 01:08:05,600 Speaker 2: and I'm like, I'll take that two grand right now. 1420 01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:07,880 Speaker 2: And in nineteen eighty seven, two thousand dollars there was 1421 01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:09,960 Speaker 2: a lot more money than it is right now, you know, 1422 01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:13,240 Speaker 2: especially for me. You know, rent back then in Hollywood 1423 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,040 Speaker 2: was probably three hundred dollars for a cool house, you know. 1424 01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:20,320 Speaker 2: So it was I didn't know how much I wasn't 1425 01:08:20,320 --> 01:08:22,560 Speaker 2: getting rich. I'll tell you that I didn't start. I 1426 01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,840 Speaker 2: didn't have real money till I joined Rod Stewart, and 1427 01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:26,559 Speaker 2: then all of a sudden it was like, oh my god. 1428 01:08:27,439 --> 01:08:29,920 Speaker 2: You know, if you could make three thousand dollars a week. 1429 01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:33,559 Speaker 2: When I was a kid, it was like unheard of money, 1430 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:35,880 Speaker 2: unheard of money. Then I found out all my friends 1431 01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:37,559 Speaker 2: were making ten thousand a week. I didn't know though. 1432 01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:39,760 Speaker 2: For me, three thousand. I was out of my mind. 1433 01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:41,960 Speaker 1: So how did you get the gig? With American Idol? 1434 01:08:42,920 --> 01:08:47,000 Speaker 2: In the nineties there was a group of Paul Ponteis, 1435 01:08:48,040 --> 01:08:53,840 Speaker 2: you know, Amos Newman, Sterling, Macelewain, a whole bunch of 1436 01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:58,960 Speaker 2: guys that had a surfing club, John Marks, you know, 1437 01:09:01,080 --> 01:09:09,240 Speaker 2: and it was all agents, lawyers, managers, record executives, no musicians, 1438 01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,600 Speaker 2: And I surfed and I surfed a lot, and I 1439 01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:16,160 Speaker 2: was a good surfer, and they asked me if I 1440 01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,800 Speaker 2: wanted to go on one of their trips. I was 1441 01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,320 Speaker 2: the only musician invited. And I became a part of 1442 01:09:21,320 --> 01:09:24,040 Speaker 2: this private little group of clubs and we were all 1443 01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,320 Speaker 2: inside it, and we hired each other and we only 1444 01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:28,960 Speaker 2: we John Mark's, you know, And I'm going to play 1445 01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:30,880 Speaker 2: Fuji Rock Fest? Can you can you help me with 1446 01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:32,960 Speaker 2: the contract? Yeah, I come over with you know. It 1447 01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:35,040 Speaker 2: was like that. It was like we were like goodfellas 1448 01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:39,320 Speaker 2: and we'd help each other. And I got a phone 1449 01:09:39,400 --> 01:09:42,559 Speaker 2: call from Stirling mclewain, who was managing He was already 1450 01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:48,559 Speaker 2: done managing Hanson, I think at that particular time. He says, 1451 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,320 Speaker 2: you know, I'm getting a call from from nineteen Entertainment 1452 01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:56,240 Speaker 2: and they want me to come over there and work 1453 01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:59,720 Speaker 2: with this kid called Daughtry maybe and manage them, and 1454 01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:03,800 Speaker 2: said And at this particular time in the early two thousands, 1455 01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,120 Speaker 2: I worked with a girl called Lamya who was in 1456 01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:08,639 Speaker 2: Duran Duran and she was in soulda Soul and Peter 1457 01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,080 Speaker 2: Edge att signed her and it was a Clive Davis thing. 1458 01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:12,120 Speaker 2: And I had to go to New York and I 1459 01:10:12,200 --> 01:10:16,080 Speaker 2: music directed it, and I really got into this whole 1460 01:10:16,120 --> 01:10:18,320 Speaker 2: thing because I loved that Clive Davis would come into 1461 01:10:18,320 --> 01:10:20,720 Speaker 2: a room and he would talk to me about what 1462 01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:24,920 Speaker 2: we were doing, and everyone make tuckshit after he left. 1463 01:10:25,280 --> 01:10:27,160 Speaker 2: Oh what do you mean? Clive says, you know, take 1464 01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:28,800 Speaker 2: it up, take it up, and I go, you guys 1465 01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:30,439 Speaker 2: don't get it. I know what he means. You know, 1466 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,880 Speaker 2: you know Clive. I loved it. I loved having that 1467 01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,160 Speaker 2: kind of power around me and I listened to I 1468 01:10:37,720 --> 01:10:40,040 Speaker 2: never thought Clive was a goof. I thought clyd was amazing. 1469 01:10:40,479 --> 01:10:45,400 Speaker 2: And so all of a sudden, Sterling goes to Idol. 1470 01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:48,080 Speaker 2: He says, I need you to help me with Daughtry. 1471 01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:51,599 Speaker 2: So I came and I started working at nineteen and 1472 01:10:51,680 --> 01:10:53,760 Speaker 2: my first guy, I was a music director and a 1473 01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:56,160 Speaker 2: consultant for nineteen and a music director for Chris Daughtry. 1474 01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,920 Speaker 2: And we started to plan early. He started to planning, well, 1475 01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,519 Speaker 2: how are we going to market this kid? Where are 1476 01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,599 Speaker 2: the songs coming from, what's his band going to look like? 1477 01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:05,519 Speaker 2: You know, who's just you know, all of that kind 1478 01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:06,680 Speaker 2: of stuff. How are we going to deal with this? 1479 01:11:06,760 --> 01:11:08,240 Speaker 2: And I was so I'd sit in and I was 1480 01:11:08,280 --> 01:11:10,880 Speaker 2: in all those meetings with the Imperia and everybody, and 1481 01:11:12,280 --> 01:11:15,920 Speaker 2: we come out with Daughtry and we sell five million records. 1482 01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:18,760 Speaker 2: And I put this whole thing together and taught them 1483 01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:20,479 Speaker 2: all how to play the songs because Phil X, and 1484 01:11:20,479 --> 01:11:22,799 Speaker 2: my dear friend Phil X had played did the album, 1485 01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:24,920 Speaker 2: and he's an insane guitar player. So I'd have to 1486 01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:26,960 Speaker 2: teach these guys how to play the parts, you know, 1487 01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:28,519 Speaker 2: because they couldn't figure it out, because a lot of 1488 01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:32,800 Speaker 2: that shit was tricky, and Clyd Davis would call again 1489 01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:34,800 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, you know, I wouldn't want to 1490 01:11:34,840 --> 01:11:37,120 Speaker 2: do IDL And when it started, I thought it was lame. 1491 01:11:37,160 --> 01:11:39,080 Speaker 2: I hated and Mick Jagger wouldn't have called me if 1492 01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:40,760 Speaker 2: I was the guy who worked at American Idol in 1493 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:42,880 Speaker 2: two thousand and three or whatever it was. But in 1494 01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:45,080 Speaker 2: two thousand and six, the writing was on the wall. 1495 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:48,240 Speaker 2: The music business was in a free fall, and IDOL 1496 01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:51,959 Speaker 2: was the biggest thing in town in two thousand and six, biggest. 1497 01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:54,320 Speaker 2: It was just big. And so I took that gig 1498 01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,040 Speaker 2: and instantly clid d you know, talking to Clive Davis again, 1499 01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:58,880 Speaker 2: and I'm talking to big guys again, and I'm back 1500 01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:01,000 Speaker 2: in that game that you know, well, you know, you 1501 01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:02,680 Speaker 2: got to do something every four years to keep in 1502 01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:04,960 Speaker 2: that game where people take your phone calls or they 1503 01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:06,960 Speaker 2: call you. And I was back in that game and 1504 01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:09,280 Speaker 2: we sold a ton of records with Daughtry. So then 1505 01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,240 Speaker 2: I came back next year and I did Jordan's Sparks 1506 01:12:11,280 --> 01:12:12,920 Speaker 2: and we sold a couple million with her, and with 1507 01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,040 Speaker 2: her she was seventeen, so I actually played guitar in 1508 01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:17,120 Speaker 2: the band until I until she turned eighteen. Then I 1509 01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:19,040 Speaker 2: hired a kid to take my place and we went 1510 01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,559 Speaker 2: out with Alicia Keys. And then into the next year, 1511 01:12:23,160 --> 01:12:27,000 Speaker 2: I did David Cook, which was really fun because David 1512 01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:28,920 Speaker 2: was just a sweet kid. It was like tried to 1513 01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:30,120 Speaker 2: make it his whole life, and all of a sudden 1514 01:12:30,120 --> 01:12:32,360 Speaker 2: he was the most famous guy on the planet, and 1515 01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:33,720 Speaker 2: you know, he was just like, oh what do I do? 1516 01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:36,280 Speaker 2: He didn't know what to do. And I enjoyed mentoring 1517 01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:39,160 Speaker 2: those guys, you know. And then the last year, I 1518 01:12:39,560 --> 01:12:42,640 Speaker 2: took three idols. I had Alis and Irita, and I 1519 01:12:42,640 --> 01:12:46,520 Speaker 2: had Chris Allen who won, and I had Adam Lambert 1520 01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,760 Speaker 2: who was just a wild card, and I pretty much 1521 01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:51,720 Speaker 2: took over all of SR and I had all the 1522 01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:53,559 Speaker 2: idols in there, and I was running the whole thing, 1523 01:12:53,640 --> 01:12:58,400 Speaker 2: and that was a crazy year. But those four years 1524 01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:00,559 Speaker 2: and I was there, there was the highest rated show 1525 01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:04,080 Speaker 2: in the world, I think, And and the next year 1526 01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:07,439 Speaker 2: I left. The next year because all the winners were country, 1527 01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:09,640 Speaker 2: and I don't know anything about country music, but it 1528 01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:12,439 Speaker 2: looked like and the ratings started going down then. So 1529 01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,840 Speaker 2: in the bullshit word of World of Hollywood, it kind 1530 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:17,880 Speaker 2: of looked like Stevie Laft and are not doing so 1531 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:20,080 Speaker 2: good now, right, you know people actually think stupid shit 1532 01:13:20,160 --> 01:13:21,640 Speaker 2: like that, And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know 1533 01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:22,840 Speaker 2: it is I'll ride that. 1534 01:13:23,200 --> 01:13:25,960 Speaker 1: Okay. Just to be clear, you would work with the 1535 01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:29,599 Speaker 1: act once they had won, or you would be there 1536 01:13:29,640 --> 01:13:31,639 Speaker 1: while the television show was being shot. 1537 01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:35,080 Speaker 2: Let's start early in the season and we would start 1538 01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,960 Speaker 2: to identify who they wanted to keep, because nineteen could 1539 01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:42,680 Speaker 2: keep twelve of ten of them. I don't forget what 1540 01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:45,120 Speaker 2: the number was. They had contracts with all of them. 1541 01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:47,200 Speaker 2: They could not decided, so it wasn't like they just 1542 01:13:47,240 --> 01:13:49,719 Speaker 2: got the winner. As a matter of fact, Doctry didn't 1543 01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:52,280 Speaker 2: even win. They farmed out the other ones and they 1544 01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,160 Speaker 2: kept Doctry as an in House, and that's why they 1545 01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:59,200 Speaker 2: brought in Stirling mackawin. So I would come in about 1546 01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:02,600 Speaker 2: a first quarter of the series and I could go 1547 01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:04,760 Speaker 2: down on set if I wanted, and I could do it. 1548 01:14:04,800 --> 01:14:08,040 Speaker 2: But I hated that stuff, if you really want to 1549 01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:09,960 Speaker 2: know the truth, I just thought it was like it 1550 01:14:10,040 --> 01:14:12,760 Speaker 2: was like babysitting or something. It was like the TV show. 1551 01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,280 Speaker 2: But what was good about it was I could take 1552 01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:18,559 Speaker 2: people on set or I could do you know, being 1553 01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:21,519 Speaker 2: seen reminds people that you got power in that town. 1554 01:14:21,920 --> 01:14:25,479 Speaker 2: And so on the final the Big Idol finales, when 1555 01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,360 Speaker 2: I could roll in backstage and you'd see anybody who's anybody, 1556 01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,960 Speaker 2: or I'd have my idol playing at the Jingle Ball 1557 01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:34,679 Speaker 2: and you know, all the heads of Disney and everybody 1558 01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,559 Speaker 2: and their kids are backstage. You know, I had power 1559 01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:40,960 Speaker 2: and everything in that town. You know, I don't know 1560 01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:43,559 Speaker 2: about now, but everything back then was about perceived power, 1561 01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,479 Speaker 2: and I had power. You know, I wouldn't have to 1562 01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:49,800 Speaker 2: sell millions and millions of albums and I still have power. 1563 01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:51,639 Speaker 2: You know. MC Jagger would call me on the phone. 1564 01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:53,080 Speaker 2: I gave me power, you know. 1565 01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:57,639 Speaker 1: Okay, so it ends with American Idol. Would you turn 1566 01:14:57,720 --> 01:14:58,839 Speaker 1: next with this power. 1567 01:15:00,960 --> 01:15:03,320 Speaker 2: I never really turned next back for the power that 1568 01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:07,679 Speaker 2: I can remember, I went for and I started touring, touring. 1569 01:15:07,840 --> 01:15:10,720 Speaker 2: My old catalog was doing really well in Germany and 1570 01:15:10,720 --> 01:15:12,519 Speaker 2: these countries, and I kept getting tour offers. So I 1571 01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:15,479 Speaker 2: just started touring a lot. I became a dad during 1572 01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:18,040 Speaker 2: the year that Jordan Spark's won. You know, my son 1573 01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:19,880 Speaker 2: didn't realize that Jordan Sparks used to pick him up 1574 01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:21,680 Speaker 2: and sing to him. He was a baby. We used 1575 01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:26,120 Speaker 2: to stop rehearsal with Adam Lambert so Adam could so 1576 01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:28,400 Speaker 2: my son could play on his drum set for ten minutes. 1577 01:15:28,439 --> 01:15:30,719 Speaker 2: You know. You know, it's like my son's like whatever. 1578 01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:32,759 Speaker 2: You know, he didn't give a shit. Steven Tyler texts 1579 01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,120 Speaker 2: my son and they talked about this his Skibbles commercial, 1580 01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,880 Speaker 2: and he's just like, yeah, whatever. You know, my son 1581 01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,280 Speaker 2: grew up in it. You know, he's got no fascination 1582 01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,479 Speaker 2: with it or cares about it at all. But so 1583 01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:46,599 Speaker 2: I started touring Europe. I'd go off and do gigs 1584 01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:49,000 Speaker 2: like with Steven Tyler, with Billy Gibbons. They'd call me 1585 01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:51,360 Speaker 2: and I'd come play guitar with with those guys. When 1586 01:15:51,920 --> 01:15:57,000 Speaker 2: and then I was always pretty famous in Japan. So 1587 01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:01,320 Speaker 2: I got a call in twenty sixteen from a guy 1588 01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:04,479 Speaker 2: called Koshi Inaba and he's in a band called the Bees, 1589 01:16:04,920 --> 01:16:07,439 Speaker 2: and he's the biggest selling artist in the history of Japan. 1590 01:16:07,479 --> 01:16:09,719 Speaker 2: He sold over one hundred million records just in Japan. 1591 01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,880 Speaker 2: And he was a friend and he loved my records 1592 01:16:12,920 --> 01:16:14,880 Speaker 2: and I used to play on his solo albums and 1593 01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,559 Speaker 2: we were just friends. And he calls me in twenty 1594 01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:21,800 Speaker 2: sixteen and he says, I'm really burned out. I'm uninspired. 1595 01:16:22,160 --> 01:16:25,400 Speaker 2: I can't write a song. I'm kind of depressed. He goes, 1596 01:16:25,439 --> 01:16:27,120 Speaker 2: you think you'd want to come over, you know, and 1597 01:16:27,200 --> 01:16:30,280 Speaker 2: maybe try writing some songs with me, And I'm like yeah. 1598 01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,240 Speaker 2: So I jump on a plane, I go to Tokyo 1599 01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:36,240 Speaker 2: and we start writing. And I said, let's not write 1600 01:16:37,240 --> 01:16:40,240 Speaker 2: Stevie solo songs with the Koshi Nava singing. Let's not 1601 01:16:40,280 --> 01:16:43,479 Speaker 2: write Koshi Nava songs with STEVEE. Sauas playing guitar, because 1602 01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:45,680 Speaker 2: we kind of did that throughout our the you know, 1603 01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:48,519 Speaker 2: in the nineties and stuff, you know, we did that. 1604 01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:52,040 Speaker 2: I go, let's think about this, let's think about a concept. 1605 01:16:52,280 --> 01:16:55,320 Speaker 2: I go, and when I was in England, in eighty 1606 01:16:55,360 --> 01:17:00,960 Speaker 2: seven eighty eight, everything had this funk feel. Durand Tears 1607 01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:05,840 Speaker 2: for Fears. They all had slap bass, boom boom, you know, 1608 01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:08,400 Speaker 2: like it was not was the funk bass that slapped, 1609 01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,840 Speaker 2: but it wasn't black music. It was like this pop 1610 01:17:11,920 --> 01:17:14,679 Speaker 2: swore of music that kind of rocked like Duran Durant, 1611 01:17:14,680 --> 01:17:19,360 Speaker 2: but it all had this synthetic synthesizer bass. It was 1612 01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:21,760 Speaker 2: kind of like fun, but it wasn't funk. And I 1613 01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,240 Speaker 2: had slapping bass, and and I go, let's let's write 1614 01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:28,280 Speaker 2: songs with that groove so the girls can dance. And 1615 01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:29,960 Speaker 2: I go, and let's make all the guitars sound like 1616 01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,280 Speaker 2: the Clash. It's just just go back, and let's make 1617 01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:33,960 Speaker 2: him sound raty, like we're in the Clash, because he 1618 01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:36,120 Speaker 2: loved the Clash, and let's do what happened. So we 1619 01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:38,280 Speaker 2: started writing songs and it was really fun, and he 1620 01:17:38,439 --> 01:17:41,120 Speaker 2: started having fun. So we'd go to Nackville and we'd 1621 01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:42,760 Speaker 2: worked on some songs and we'd fly to LA and 1622 01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:44,960 Speaker 2: I'd have Taylor Hawkins play drums. I don't know if 1623 01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:46,800 Speaker 2: you know that, but I discovered Taylor Hawkins. I'm the 1624 01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:48,640 Speaker 2: guy that discovered him. 1625 01:17:48,280 --> 01:17:51,639 Speaker 1: And well, I know that, but tell my audience the story. 1626 01:17:51,760 --> 01:17:56,320 Speaker 2: Okay, well well let me tell you finish Koshy. So 1627 01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:58,439 Speaker 2: we finished, We do the album. I get all my 1628 01:17:58,479 --> 01:18:00,160 Speaker 2: friends to play on a Taylor and I I mean, 1629 01:18:00,240 --> 01:18:02,360 Speaker 2: tons of people are jamming on it and it's really 1630 01:18:02,400 --> 01:18:06,479 Speaker 2: really fun and the albums it's not just songs. But 1631 01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:09,800 Speaker 2: then his manager in Japan's like going, this, this is amazing. 1632 01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:12,240 Speaker 2: He goes, I'm putting it out. I'm like what he goes, Yeah, 1633 01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:13,960 Speaker 2: And I booked a tour in January. We're gonna go do. 1634 01:18:14,439 --> 01:18:16,479 Speaker 2: It's a small tour. We're gonna do three months of 1635 01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:19,840 Speaker 2: five thousand seaters. And they put the tickets on sale. 1636 01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:22,439 Speaker 2: We called it a Naba Solace and it sold out 1637 01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:24,920 Speaker 2: and I'm not lying every it was sold out within 1638 01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:27,840 Speaker 2: three minutes. And I went over there and so I 1639 01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:30,280 Speaker 2: got to put my own band together. So I hired 1640 01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:33,639 Speaker 2: Stuart Zender from Jamikoy to play bass, am fiddler again 1641 01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,040 Speaker 2: from Parliament Funkadelic, who was was not Wes and we 1642 01:18:36,080 --> 01:18:38,720 Speaker 2: ever had to play synth. And Matt Sharad who I 1643 01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:40,920 Speaker 2: worked with a ton who was a remixer and a 1644 01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:42,479 Speaker 2: producer and he was the drummer for Beck and the 1645 01:18:42,560 --> 01:18:45,040 Speaker 2: drummers for Crowded House, and I put this super band 1646 01:18:45,040 --> 01:18:47,559 Speaker 2: together with me and I Naba and we went and 1647 01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:51,160 Speaker 2: played and people went crazy. So we came back, took 1648 01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:52,760 Speaker 2: a year off when he went back to his bad 1649 01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:54,559 Speaker 2: bees because they could do, you know, ten nights at 1650 01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,719 Speaker 2: the Tokyo Dome. And we came back and did another 1651 01:18:57,720 --> 01:18:59,439 Speaker 2: album in twenty twenty, and we booked it. This time, 1652 01:18:59,439 --> 01:19:01,960 Speaker 2: we booked another tour, and this time it was multiple 1653 01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:04,559 Speaker 2: nights at Castle Hall, multiple nights. You know, it was 1654 01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:08,800 Speaker 2: twenty thousand seaters now doing multiple nights. We sold eighty 1655 01:19:08,840 --> 01:19:13,080 Speaker 2: five thousand tickets in four minutes and I go over 1656 01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:15,840 Speaker 2: I shoot the cover of Rolling Stone. So I'm under 1657 01:19:15,840 --> 01:19:17,600 Speaker 2: cover of Rolling Stone for the first time of my 1658 01:19:17,600 --> 01:19:21,720 Speaker 2: life with me and in Aba and Covid hits. Whole 1659 01:19:21,760 --> 01:19:24,720 Speaker 2: tour cancels. We rebook it for twenty twenty one. We 1660 01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:26,960 Speaker 2: still can't do it. We ended up sending all the 1661 01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:29,439 Speaker 2: money back for the eighty five thousand tickets. It was 1662 01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:31,519 Speaker 2: a lot of money, Bob, a lot. I was like 1663 01:19:31,560 --> 01:19:35,439 Speaker 2: buy a new house money. And and we haven't remade 1664 01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:37,040 Speaker 2: it up yet and we're hoping maybe in twenty twenty 1665 01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:38,559 Speaker 2: five I'm gonna go back, so I'll have to lose 1666 01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,000 Speaker 2: some weight and to try to, you know, make it happen. 1667 01:19:41,640 --> 01:19:43,479 Speaker 2: So yeah, that's what I've been doing. And that's big, big, 1668 01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:46,640 Speaker 2: big stuff because it's multiple arenas again, and you know, 1669 01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:49,160 Speaker 2: it feels good when you can sell twenty thousand tickets. 1670 01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:54,000 Speaker 1: Now, it would appear from the outside you work with 1671 01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:57,640 Speaker 1: somebody and then you don't work with them again. What 1672 01:19:57,680 --> 01:19:58,639 Speaker 1: would you say to that? 1673 01:19:59,240 --> 01:20:02,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I started doing. Wayne Kramer asked me 1674 01:20:02,840 --> 01:20:04,719 Speaker 2: to come help them with a new MC five album 1675 01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,560 Speaker 2: with Bob Ezrin, and I did it. And then d 1676 01:20:07,560 --> 01:20:10,320 Speaker 2: Wayne said, let's put a band together and let's go 1677 01:20:10,400 --> 01:20:13,320 Speaker 2: do do some some dates. And I'm like, I love 1678 01:20:13,320 --> 01:20:15,280 Speaker 2: you wayn Kramer. I'll do whatever you want, you know. 1679 01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:20,599 Speaker 2: But I was really adamant. I had thought Wayne had 1680 01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:23,240 Speaker 2: put a band together with some really great musicians, guys 1681 01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:27,720 Speaker 2: you know from Soundgarden and a bunch other you know 1682 01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,360 Speaker 2: guys that you know from the eighties and nineties that 1683 01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,880 Speaker 2: were famous guys. But they all thought the MC five 1684 01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:41,000 Speaker 2: was it was just brutality and punk rock force. They 1685 01:20:41,080 --> 01:20:42,680 Speaker 2: just think that because it's one of the these one 1686 01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:44,679 Speaker 2: of the inventors of punk rock. They give him that credit, 1687 01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:48,439 Speaker 2: but if you really listen to the MC five, they 1688 01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:50,160 Speaker 2: were they were trying to be a soul band. They 1689 01:20:50,160 --> 01:20:53,160 Speaker 2: were trying to be an R and B band with 1690 01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:57,760 Speaker 2: distorted guitars, and they were failing miserably and creating something 1691 01:20:57,760 --> 01:21:01,360 Speaker 2: completely new and original by accident. So so Wayne and 1692 01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:05,200 Speaker 2: I realized that nobody was playing the music right, and 1693 01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:07,160 Speaker 2: it bothered him. So him and I started going back 1694 01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:09,800 Speaker 2: to the actual original masters. And I had listened to 1695 01:21:09,800 --> 01:21:13,479 Speaker 2: to fred Sonicsmith's parts, and I'd listened to what Wayne 1696 01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:14,680 Speaker 2: was doing. And Wayne and I would sit there with 1697 01:21:14,760 --> 01:21:17,640 Speaker 2: just two guitars like kids, not even plugged in. It 1698 01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:19,439 Speaker 2: was like going back to being a kid again. And 1699 01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:22,080 Speaker 2: Wayne and I would go through these parts and figure 1700 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:25,200 Speaker 2: out why they worked and what made them work. And 1701 01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:28,439 Speaker 2: so when we went out on that tour, we really slam. 1702 01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:30,800 Speaker 2: It was amazing. I mean, people were saying, Mike Caller 1703 01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:33,120 Speaker 2: and guys like there was, you know, Stevie dan Zance 1704 01:21:33,320 --> 01:21:35,680 Speaker 2: was the best, one of the best shows they'd ever seen. 1705 01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:37,639 Speaker 2: Definitely the best MC vibe show they had ever seen, 1706 01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:41,280 Speaker 2: you know. And so I was going to go back 1707 01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:43,000 Speaker 2: with Wayne. The album was getting ready to come out, 1708 01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:44,600 Speaker 2: and then, as you know, Wayne passed away out of 1709 01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:48,719 Speaker 2: the blue, just unannounced, fast, just like he was gone. 1710 01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:50,720 Speaker 2: And but we were going out this year and we're 1711 01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:52,519 Speaker 2: going to do tons of festivals and big shows. And 1712 01:21:53,200 --> 01:21:55,040 Speaker 2: it was a real shame because now he's going in 1713 01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:57,080 Speaker 2: the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and he's not here, 1714 01:21:57,200 --> 01:22:00,000 Speaker 2: and you know, it's it's a bit of a crush. 1715 01:22:00,120 --> 01:22:02,880 Speaker 2: But I do stick with them sometimes, you know. 1716 01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,600 Speaker 1: But it's more that you decide to move on, or 1717 01:22:07,680 --> 01:22:09,519 Speaker 1: is it more that they decide to move on. 1718 01:22:11,040 --> 01:22:15,040 Speaker 2: I think it's me. I if I want to stick 1719 01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:16,240 Speaker 2: to one thing for a long time, I do my 1720 01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:20,200 Speaker 2: own thing. But I do like playing like I love 1721 01:22:20,240 --> 01:22:21,840 Speaker 2: playing with you now because that is my thing. I'm 1722 01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:24,519 Speaker 2: writing all the songs, you know, and I'm producing the 1723 01:22:24,600 --> 01:22:28,000 Speaker 2: records with Koshi, so it is my thing. So I 1724 01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:30,439 Speaker 2: could play with him, and let's face it, I'm not 1725 01:22:30,479 --> 01:22:32,920 Speaker 2: gonna lie when you can go on to it and 1726 01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:35,600 Speaker 2: you know your shows are automatically sold out and you 1727 01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:38,400 Speaker 2: don't have that anxiety. Is there anybody here tonight? I'm 1728 01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,840 Speaker 2: playing in Paris. Oh my god, don't tell me it's empty. 1729 01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,200 Speaker 2: You know, those anxieties are real and when you know 1730 01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:46,640 Speaker 2: your shows are all sold out and you've got a 1731 01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,760 Speaker 2: captive audience that just worships you. I mean, it's a 1732 01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:54,080 Speaker 2: lot more fun. I mean, you know, the MC five 1733 01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:58,840 Speaker 2: we're playing small places, and there was MC five worshippers there, 1734 01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:02,400 Speaker 2: but it wasn't like We're playing like Lollapalooza or something. 1735 01:23:02,479 --> 01:23:02,680 Speaker 2: You know. 1736 01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:16,000 Speaker 1: Okay, to what degree does your mood depend on whether 1737 01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:17,320 Speaker 1: people are looking for you? 1738 01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,040 Speaker 2: I don't really think about that too much because I 1739 01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:22,800 Speaker 2: got a lot going on. You know, I really endo 1740 01:23:22,840 --> 01:23:25,760 Speaker 2: making movies and television and writing and developing television, and 1741 01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:28,840 Speaker 2: I keep myself really busy. I have a really cool 1742 01:23:28,880 --> 01:23:31,200 Speaker 2: company with a partner of Mohawk and native guy named 1743 01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:35,200 Speaker 2: Bran Porter. Up on the Six Nations Reservation in Canada, 1744 01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:39,960 Speaker 2: I became a Canadian permanent resident and after Rumble, and 1745 01:23:42,080 --> 01:23:46,719 Speaker 2: I really love developing television. I love developing films because 1746 01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:49,800 Speaker 2: I don't know what I'm doing and it's scary and 1747 01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:52,680 Speaker 2: it's therefore it's exciting. Where in music, I kind of 1748 01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:56,200 Speaker 2: feel like, you know, Bowie could call me and I 1749 01:23:56,280 --> 01:23:58,760 Speaker 2: know what to do, and I know what to do, 1750 01:23:59,040 --> 01:24:01,559 Speaker 2: and I really know what to do, you know, I 1751 01:24:01,640 --> 01:24:04,200 Speaker 2: know what the sound should sound like. And I know 1752 01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:07,600 Speaker 2: where the energy comes from. You know, I said in 1753 01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:09,960 Speaker 2: my speech last week in San Diego for that big 1754 01:24:09,960 --> 01:24:13,240 Speaker 2: award I got, I said, I never thought my job 1755 01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:16,400 Speaker 2: as a guitar player was to play notes. I thought 1756 01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:19,400 Speaker 2: my job was to move energy. And I've always felt 1757 01:24:19,439 --> 01:24:23,479 Speaker 2: that way. And that's what I do when I play 1758 01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:25,599 Speaker 2: with these guys. I try to create energy. 1759 01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:31,200 Speaker 1: You know, what's the status of these developing projects. 1760 01:24:31,960 --> 01:24:35,760 Speaker 2: I got a really badass series right now that I'm 1761 01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:38,200 Speaker 2: working on with a guy called Cliff Roberts, a producet Emancipation. 1762 01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:40,200 Speaker 2: He used to be a big agent, William Morris. He 1763 01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:42,960 Speaker 2: manages a lot of the biggest writers and showrunners in 1764 01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:46,240 Speaker 2: the business. And so John Fusco, who's one of my 1765 01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:49,800 Speaker 2: favorite writers. He's Spielberg's favorite writer. You know. He did 1766 01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:53,200 Speaker 2: Young Guns one and Young Guns two, and in the 1767 01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:58,000 Speaker 2: Thunderheart and he did Crossroads, you know, with the Crossroads film. 1768 01:24:58,040 --> 01:24:59,760 Speaker 2: That was his first movie he ever wrote. But he's 1769 01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,320 Speaker 2: done gigantic. He's a gigantic showrunner. He did the series 1770 01:25:03,600 --> 01:25:07,680 Speaker 2: Marco Polo on Netflix, and so he's the showrunner with 1771 01:25:07,720 --> 01:25:10,280 Speaker 2: me and my partner writing partner's guy called Kevin Monroe, 1772 01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:13,440 Speaker 2: who wrote and directed Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from Miramax, 1773 01:25:13,479 --> 01:25:17,120 Speaker 2: and he had done my son's favorite movie, Ratchet Klank. 1774 01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:19,879 Speaker 2: So I got this insane team of people, and as usual, 1775 01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:22,519 Speaker 2: I'm the shittiest guy in the room. I'm the stupidest 1776 01:25:22,520 --> 01:25:23,920 Speaker 2: guy in the room, and that's where I want to be. 1777 01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,439 Speaker 2: These guys are beasts, and so I'm working on that 1778 01:25:27,560 --> 01:25:29,880 Speaker 2: right now or shopping that around. It's a series. It's 1779 01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:34,559 Speaker 2: like a Native American Godfather or the Sopranos kind of 1780 01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:37,400 Speaker 2: a thing about a family that you know, you know, 1781 01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:40,360 Speaker 2: can face down another season of being on welfare on 1782 01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:43,240 Speaker 2: the reservation and they discover what sovereign law means and 1783 01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:46,120 Speaker 2: they learn how to create their own tobacco supplies instead 1784 01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:49,320 Speaker 2: of smuggling for the big tobacco into Canada. They'd learned 1785 01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,000 Speaker 2: how to do it themselves. And you know, it's like 1786 01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,840 Speaker 2: the Brofmans who were who were literally bootleggers and then 1787 01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,720 Speaker 2: became a legitimate business and became very powerful. And it's 1788 01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:00,200 Speaker 2: a story about a Native group that does this. It's 1789 01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:02,760 Speaker 2: called Smoke River and I hope I get to make 1790 01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:05,120 Speaker 2: that series, and I hope soon because it's kind of, 1791 01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:07,280 Speaker 2: you know, John Fusco said, as he said, it's a 1792 01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:09,720 Speaker 2: game changer. And I got a couple more things like that. 1793 01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:11,879 Speaker 2: I work with Robert Stromberg, who directed in The Lificent 1794 01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:14,880 Speaker 2: But I actually grew up with Robert and Carlsbad, California. 1795 01:26:15,040 --> 01:26:17,160 Speaker 2: We had rival rock bands. And then you know, Robert 1796 01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,000 Speaker 2: did Avatar and all these other He got five Academy 1797 01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:23,680 Speaker 2: Award nominations. And so I worked with Robert and and 1798 01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:25,160 Speaker 2: when we work with a group, a lot of group 1799 01:26:25,160 --> 01:26:27,160 Speaker 2: of Native Americans. I had a new two films that 1800 01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:30,200 Speaker 2: premiered at tiff and you know, Rumble one Sun Dance, 1801 01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:33,160 Speaker 2: and I got nominated for an Emmy for Rumble as well. 1802 01:26:33,280 --> 01:26:37,800 Speaker 2: So I'm an Emmy loser, official Emmy loser. Well you 1803 01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:39,160 Speaker 2: know what it is. And they saying that he's an 1804 01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:43,280 Speaker 2: Emmy nominated producer. That just means you lost. If you 1805 01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:45,679 Speaker 2: really think about it, people always say, come on, man, 1806 01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:48,640 Speaker 2: it's you nominate to lose. You know, They're like feel like, 1807 01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,599 Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm serious, and I'm like, na, Emmy loser 1808 01:26:51,720 --> 01:26:53,960 Speaker 2: sounds so punk rock. I just think it's so cool. 1809 01:26:54,880 --> 01:26:57,080 Speaker 1: Absolutely, So how do you pick up the guitar in 1810 01:26:57,080 --> 01:26:57,799 Speaker 1: the first place. 1811 01:26:59,080 --> 01:27:01,639 Speaker 2: I started playing when I was and it just became easy. 1812 01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:02,720 Speaker 2: Don't ask me. 1813 01:27:02,760 --> 01:27:06,120 Speaker 1: It was like, well, there must have been some inspiration. 1814 01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:08,200 Speaker 1: Was there music in the house or what. 1815 01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:10,360 Speaker 2: When I was a little kid, my stepfather was in 1816 01:27:10,360 --> 01:27:13,880 Speaker 2: a rock band who I recently lost contact with him 1817 01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:16,200 Speaker 2: fourth grade and I recently found him in the Florida Keys. 1818 01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:18,600 Speaker 2: It's crazy and we talk all the time now, but 1819 01:27:19,760 --> 01:27:22,080 Speaker 2: he had a rock band, so he was introducing me 1820 01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:24,639 Speaker 2: to Clapton. I was listening to Clapton as five years old. 1821 01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:26,479 Speaker 2: You know, some sign Your Love was like my favorite song. 1822 01:27:26,520 --> 01:27:29,479 Speaker 2: I was listening to Hendrix. I was listening to led Zeppelin, 1823 01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:33,439 Speaker 2: so ironically weird when I hang out with Jimmy Page, 1824 01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:35,360 Speaker 2: but I can still remember the day, being in the third, 1825 01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:37,960 Speaker 2: you know, first grade or something, whenever it was listening 1826 01:27:37,920 --> 01:27:41,640 Speaker 2: in good times, bad times, you know, hanging out with 1827 01:27:41,800 --> 01:27:43,880 Speaker 2: playing with Steven Tyler, and I can remember being in 1828 01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:46,280 Speaker 2: the back of the van and and my brother in 1829 01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:48,080 Speaker 2: law and his friends are all, you know, in their 1830 01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:51,439 Speaker 2: twenties playing me get your Wings into It's just it's 1831 01:27:51,479 --> 01:27:54,800 Speaker 2: just all a complete mind blowing thing for me. That 1832 01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:57,360 Speaker 2: you know. When I got this award last week, you 1833 01:27:57,400 --> 01:28:02,200 Speaker 2: talked about Billy Gibbons, ro Robin xandervitt, Rick Nielsen and 1834 01:28:02,280 --> 01:28:04,800 Speaker 2: Sammy Hagar all made their own homemade iPhone videos and 1835 01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:07,200 Speaker 2: set it in and they put it into the the 1836 01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:10,439 Speaker 2: the video that they played before they introduced me, and 1837 01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:12,680 Speaker 2: it's like all of a sudden san Diego, like, damn you, 1838 01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:15,120 Speaker 2: there's some good star power. And then Matt's arm came 1839 01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,720 Speaker 2: down to introduce me. And so having these kind of 1840 01:28:17,720 --> 01:28:19,479 Speaker 2: guys in my life that I worshiped as a kid 1841 01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:22,760 Speaker 2: that actually talk to me like a peer, now, that's 1842 01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:26,000 Speaker 2: to me the greatest reward of everything, better than money, 1843 01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:29,160 Speaker 2: better than than anything. To me, that's just like, that's 1844 01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:31,000 Speaker 2: to me is the dream. That's the real dream. 1845 01:28:32,800 --> 01:28:37,640 Speaker 1: Okay, But there must have been a specific spark that said, hey, 1846 01:28:37,720 --> 01:28:38,799 Speaker 1: I want to play the guitar. 1847 01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:42,200 Speaker 2: Here's what it was. I started playing guitar. It seemed 1848 01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:43,479 Speaker 2: like it was coming easy to me, and I was. 1849 01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:45,000 Speaker 2: I was possessed by it. 1850 01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:45,360 Speaker 1: I was. 1851 01:28:45,600 --> 01:28:47,519 Speaker 2: I would play three hours a day and I never 1852 01:28:47,560 --> 01:28:49,160 Speaker 2: took a lesson, but a couple of friends would help 1853 01:28:49,200 --> 01:28:51,160 Speaker 2: me out, teach me how to play a chord or whatever, 1854 01:28:51,200 --> 01:28:56,920 Speaker 2: you know, which was really super helpful. And I just 1855 01:28:57,040 --> 01:28:59,440 Speaker 2: played and I and I and I surfed and I skateboarded, 1856 01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:01,240 Speaker 2: and so the way I played guitar was kind of 1857 01:29:01,240 --> 01:29:03,040 Speaker 2: the way and I raced motocross, and the way I 1858 01:29:03,120 --> 01:29:05,000 Speaker 2: raced motocross it was aggressive. And the way I served 1859 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:07,280 Speaker 2: was somewhat aggressive. And the way I skateboard it was aggressive. 1860 01:29:07,560 --> 01:29:09,599 Speaker 2: You know. I lived in San Diego, an Oceanside done, 1861 01:29:09,640 --> 01:29:12,439 Speaker 2: you know where Tony Hawk and the Flying Tomato, you know, 1862 01:29:12,520 --> 01:29:16,760 Speaker 2: Sean shown White and the greatest surfer Joey Brand who 1863 01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:18,439 Speaker 2: you know won the pipeline. I said, I was around 1864 01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:20,280 Speaker 2: all these kind of energy, that kind of energy, and 1865 01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:23,120 Speaker 2: my guitar playing felt like that same, like it all 1866 01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,800 Speaker 2: made sense with all of that, and so I kept playing. 1867 01:29:25,840 --> 01:29:27,120 Speaker 2: So then I got a band. I was in the 1868 01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:29,479 Speaker 2: band and I just played vis the guitar. But I 1869 01:29:29,560 --> 01:29:33,519 Speaker 2: was good. Wasn't great? It was good then that band 1870 01:29:34,240 --> 01:29:36,360 Speaker 2: more when I was still in high school. All the 1871 01:29:36,360 --> 01:29:38,200 Speaker 2: guys were older than me, a year two older than me, 1872 01:29:38,560 --> 01:29:40,519 Speaker 2: and we became the hottest band in San Diego. I 1873 01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:42,280 Speaker 2: mean we would play everywhere and it was like high 1874 01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:45,880 Speaker 2: school dances and colleges and girls were screaming like We're 1875 01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:50,800 Speaker 2: the Beatles. And so I told my dad I didn't 1876 01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:51,760 Speaker 2: know what I was going to do with my life, 1877 01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:54,200 Speaker 2: but I said, Dad, I'm pretty good at this thing, 1878 01:29:54,520 --> 01:29:59,000 Speaker 2: and I go, let me give it till I'm twenty 1879 01:29:59,040 --> 01:30:04,120 Speaker 2: four years old. In twenty four I haven't made it. 1880 01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:06,599 Speaker 2: I'm going to join the Coast Guard because I love 1881 01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:08,320 Speaker 2: the ocean, right. I'm from the beach, and I'm from 1882 01:30:08,320 --> 01:30:10,960 Speaker 2: the and I worked on fishing boats and I all 1883 01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:12,880 Speaker 2: want to join the coast Guard. So that's my out. 1884 01:30:12,960 --> 01:30:16,320 Speaker 2: And so my dad's like, okay, Luckily, I'm luckily I 1885 01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:17,479 Speaker 2: made it before the ad. 1886 01:30:18,400 --> 01:30:23,880 Speaker 1: So okay, okay. You talk about your father being in 1887 01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:28,439 Speaker 1: the Marines, moving give me the narrative here. You have 1888 01:30:28,479 --> 01:30:32,400 Speaker 1: a biological father, you have a stepfather. Was your biological 1889 01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:36,280 Speaker 1: father still in the picture? You talk about your ex stepfather, 1890 01:30:36,520 --> 01:30:39,000 Speaker 1: meaning you're broke up with your mother? What was going 1891 01:30:39,040 --> 01:30:39,519 Speaker 1: on here? 1892 01:30:39,640 --> 01:30:43,479 Speaker 2: So my parents were splitting up before I was born. 1893 01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:46,800 Speaker 2: I didn't know this, of course I was born, but 1894 01:30:47,040 --> 01:30:50,320 Speaker 2: my mom got pregnant with me and they stayed together. 1895 01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:54,040 Speaker 2: But that only lasted I think a year or two, 1896 01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:56,360 Speaker 2: maybe two, I don't know exactly, because I was, you know, 1897 01:30:56,600 --> 01:30:59,679 Speaker 2: the baby my mother fell in love with the musician. 1898 01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:01,920 Speaker 2: My dad. I'd moved out. My mother fell in love 1899 01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:05,519 Speaker 2: with a musician, so I had she married him, and 1900 01:31:05,560 --> 01:31:07,519 Speaker 2: I had him as a stepdad. But my real father 1901 01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:10,040 Speaker 2: was in my life always, you know. He worked on 1902 01:31:10,080 --> 01:31:11,680 Speaker 2: the marine base and he was in my life. And 1903 01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:14,320 Speaker 2: it was great because my stepdad was a hippie and 1904 01:31:14,360 --> 01:31:17,000 Speaker 2: my mom became a hippie and so, you know, we 1905 01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:19,840 Speaker 2: learned about you know, we'd go to the Paula Indian 1906 01:31:19,880 --> 01:31:23,000 Speaker 2: Reservation and they'd all everybody, all the families. We'd run 1907 01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:25,120 Speaker 2: around naked, and she was like hippie shit, you know, 1908 01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:28,600 Speaker 2: And I grew up in that. But my father was 1909 01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:31,240 Speaker 2: a disciplined man, and he was super cool, super cool. 1910 01:31:31,280 --> 01:31:34,240 Speaker 2: Not an asshole, but he he provided me with a 1911 01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:37,640 Speaker 2: foundation of discipline. So when my mother and my stepfather 1912 01:31:37,720 --> 01:31:40,000 Speaker 2: split up when I was four years old, I was 1913 01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:43,040 Speaker 2: in fourth grade, I'm sorry. My mother went off the 1914 01:31:43,080 --> 01:31:45,880 Speaker 2: deep end. She had lost a child, and you know, 1915 01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:48,000 Speaker 2: and I and she went off the deep end and 1916 01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:51,280 Speaker 2: she was on prescription drugs and she disappeared. And I 1917 01:31:51,320 --> 01:31:53,280 Speaker 2: was a period of about four days, three days when 1918 01:31:53,320 --> 01:31:55,639 Speaker 2: I was by myself at the house because my older 1919 01:31:55,680 --> 01:31:59,080 Speaker 2: sister had left already too and and I was literally 1920 01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:01,320 Speaker 2: by myself. I have to dressed myself and get to school. 1921 01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,040 Speaker 2: Was awful. And my dad showed up one day to 1922 01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:05,479 Speaker 2: check what are you doing? What checked on me? And 1923 01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:07,360 Speaker 2: I told him, whe's your mom's I haven't seen her, 1924 01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:09,560 Speaker 2: and he's get in the car. I moved. This is 1925 01:32:09,680 --> 01:32:12,960 Speaker 2: in fifth grade now. I moved to Oceanside and I'm 1926 01:32:12,960 --> 01:32:16,720 Speaker 2: moving with my dad. And we were like two bachelors, 1927 01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:20,639 Speaker 2: and he worked three jobs. And I never went back 1928 01:32:20,680 --> 01:32:23,400 Speaker 2: to live with my mom and she got it together. 1929 01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:24,920 Speaker 2: She figured herself out, and I bought her a house 1930 01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,000 Speaker 2: years later whenever he came and looaded, you know. But 1931 01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:29,519 Speaker 2: I lived with my dad. My dad was really great 1932 01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:34,599 Speaker 2: for me. And then my dad ended up remarrying years later. 1933 01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:37,240 Speaker 2: And that's my stepmother who is still in my life. 1934 01:32:37,320 --> 01:32:39,920 Speaker 2: And my mom passed away at eighty seven, and my 1935 01:32:39,960 --> 01:32:44,000 Speaker 2: father passed away at eighty unfortunately he got cancer. But yeah, 1936 01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:45,960 Speaker 2: so I had him both in my life. And actually 1937 01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:48,640 Speaker 2: the combination of the hippie step dad and the discipline 1938 01:32:48,720 --> 01:32:51,679 Speaker 2: real dad was really fantastic. It was a really fantastic 1939 01:32:51,680 --> 01:32:52,400 Speaker 2: combination for me. 1940 01:32:53,800 --> 01:32:56,760 Speaker 1: Okay, who in this picture was Native American. 1941 01:32:57,280 --> 01:33:02,040 Speaker 2: My mother and my father, but not the stepfather. No, No, 1942 01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:02,680 Speaker 2: he's a white guy. 1943 01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:06,720 Speaker 1: And your father's got remarried. 1944 01:33:07,280 --> 01:33:13,360 Speaker 2: He got remarried in my mom's cousin actually, and yeah, 1945 01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:15,479 Speaker 2: not his cousin. Let's not get that. Let's make a 1946 01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:19,639 Speaker 2: sense my mom's cousin and that caused a big ruckus 1947 01:33:19,640 --> 01:33:22,439 Speaker 2: in the family. Oh my god. You know. But you know, 1948 01:33:24,040 --> 01:33:28,680 Speaker 2: he identifies as Chicano because a lot of people in 1949 01:33:28,800 --> 01:33:31,880 Speaker 2: the New Mexico days, especially back in the thirties and stuff, 1950 01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:34,160 Speaker 2: would never want to admit to being Native American because 1951 01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:36,040 Speaker 2: if you're a Native American, you were probably you know, 1952 01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:37,920 Speaker 2: you were looked at as the scum of the earth, 1953 01:33:38,479 --> 01:33:41,240 Speaker 2: which sounds crazy now, but it's the fact. So nobody, 1954 01:33:41,800 --> 01:33:43,560 Speaker 2: nobody wanted to be a Native. You could be a 1955 01:33:43,680 --> 01:33:46,640 Speaker 2: Native in those days, and if somebody raped you, or 1956 01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:50,120 Speaker 2: somebody kidnapped you, or somebody killed you, it was not 1957 01:33:50,960 --> 01:33:54,439 Speaker 2: priority number one to figure out where you were. And 1958 01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:56,760 Speaker 2: essentially nuts to me. And I didn't know about any 1959 01:33:56,800 --> 01:33:58,639 Speaker 2: of this stuff until I got older and started learning 1960 01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:01,559 Speaker 2: about it. You know. So a lot of people, there's 1961 01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:04,240 Speaker 2: a lot of Native people like Robert Trhillo from Metallica, 1962 01:34:04,520 --> 01:34:08,320 Speaker 2: Randy Castillo, who was in Rumble from Ozzie. A lot 1963 01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:11,839 Speaker 2: of US pat vegas from from uh, you know, saying 1964 01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:15,040 Speaker 2: come and get your love from from Redbone. A lot 1965 01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:18,439 Speaker 2: of US guys in America grew up Taboo from Black 1966 01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:20,760 Speaker 2: Eyed Peas. We grew up not really knowing who we 1967 01:34:20,760 --> 01:34:23,120 Speaker 2: were or a lot about our culture because we were 1968 01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:26,000 Speaker 2: in this mix everybody from the New Mexico Southwest area. 1969 01:34:26,680 --> 01:34:30,840 Speaker 2: We're either trying to identify as Spaniards or Mexican or Chicano, 1970 01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:34,840 Speaker 2: and you know, you start to have to dig to 1971 01:34:34,920 --> 01:34:38,040 Speaker 2: make sure you know what Indian you were because because 1972 01:34:38,080 --> 01:34:40,120 Speaker 2: a lot of the older aunts and stuff. But deny it, 1973 01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:42,559 Speaker 2: I'm not a Savage. I remember my two aunts were 1974 01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:46,880 Speaker 2: arguing with my cousin Gilbert, and you know, she was 1975 01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:49,680 Speaker 2: one was saying we're Apache and the end she said, no, 1976 01:34:49,720 --> 01:34:51,920 Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not a Savage. I mean and they 1977 01:34:51,920 --> 01:34:54,519 Speaker 2: were like losing their minds over this stuff. So it's 1978 01:34:54,520 --> 01:34:57,679 Speaker 2: weird to think that this is still an issue. Right, 1979 01:34:57,760 --> 01:34:59,160 Speaker 2: So a lot of people don't know who they are. 1980 01:35:01,120 --> 01:35:05,200 Speaker 1: And then you talk about your mother going to the reservation. 1981 01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:08,320 Speaker 1: Was that part of you growing up going to the reservation. 1982 01:35:10,160 --> 01:35:11,640 Speaker 2: It might have been, but to me it was just 1983 01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:13,760 Speaker 2: some hippie shit. There's a bunch of hippies with long hair, 1984 01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:15,120 Speaker 2: and they'd go out and play music and we all, 1985 01:35:15,160 --> 01:35:16,760 Speaker 2: all the kids would swim in the river there and 1986 01:35:16,800 --> 01:35:19,439 Speaker 2: Paula at the Indian restaurant, but she was not a 1987 01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:22,600 Speaker 2: part of the Paula tribe. But we would go to 1988 01:35:22,600 --> 01:35:25,040 Speaker 2: the Paula Indi Indian reservation all the time. Wait before 1989 01:35:25,080 --> 01:35:26,760 Speaker 2: there was a casino there, and there was nothing out 1990 01:35:26,760 --> 01:35:31,000 Speaker 2: there but wild dogs and a few skins and uh. 1991 01:35:31,080 --> 01:35:35,160 Speaker 2: But you know, I always felt at home in Indian Country. 1992 01:35:35,360 --> 01:35:37,120 Speaker 2: I didn't know a lot about it. And like I 1993 01:35:37,120 --> 01:35:40,080 Speaker 2: said in Rumble, when I was losing my mind after 1994 01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:41,960 Speaker 2: Rod Stewart, when I was just so full of my 1995 01:35:42,000 --> 01:35:46,040 Speaker 2: own bs and I was so yeah, I was out 1996 01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:48,880 Speaker 2: of my mind. Everything was tequila and parties and chicks 1997 01:35:48,920 --> 01:35:53,599 Speaker 2: and rockstar shit. And Randy Castillo, who was the drummer 1998 01:35:53,640 --> 01:35:55,280 Speaker 2: of Ozzie, it was like me, and it was from 1999 01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:57,479 Speaker 2: New Mexico. My family's from New Mexico. And he said, 2000 01:35:58,120 --> 01:36:00,360 Speaker 2: he says, I got to take you to Indian Country. 2001 01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:02,920 Speaker 2: You're out of control. And I didn't know what that meant, 2002 01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:04,800 Speaker 2: you know, Indian Country. And so I went with him 2003 01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:06,120 Speaker 2: and we went to Santa Fe and then he took 2004 01:36:06,160 --> 01:36:08,360 Speaker 2: me up to Taos, and that started me on this 2005 01:36:08,520 --> 01:36:12,960 Speaker 2: path in the early nineties of balance where I would 2006 01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:15,240 Speaker 2: lose my mind in La and I could go to 2007 01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:21,679 Speaker 2: Indian Country and kind of just not be, not trying 2008 01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:23,680 Speaker 2: to be some kind of badass rock star. I was 2009 01:36:23,720 --> 01:36:25,760 Speaker 2: just I was trying to be trying to be a 2010 01:36:25,840 --> 01:36:29,640 Speaker 2: human being, right, And Randy was the same way. And 2011 01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:31,240 Speaker 2: then we'd go back to LA or New York or 2012 01:36:31,280 --> 01:36:33,200 Speaker 2: London or whatever we need rock stars and go play 2013 01:36:33,400 --> 01:36:37,519 Speaker 2: sports arenas and and that that's kind of how it was. 2014 01:36:39,600 --> 01:36:43,480 Speaker 1: Okay, we hear about the plight of the Native American 2015 01:36:43,600 --> 01:36:50,400 Speaker 1: on the reservation, we hear about economic issues, obesity, alcoholism, 2016 01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:55,639 Speaker 1: to what degree is that something you're invested in because 2017 01:36:55,680 --> 01:36:57,839 Speaker 1: your upbringing certainly was very different. 2018 01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:00,360 Speaker 2: My upbringion was super different. Like my part in my 2019 01:37:00,360 --> 01:37:02,599 Speaker 2: film company, Bran Porter grew up on the Six Nations 2020 01:37:02,640 --> 01:37:06,639 Speaker 2: reservation where Robbie Robertson's from, actually, but Robbie would only 2021 01:37:06,640 --> 01:37:09,360 Speaker 2: spend summers there because he had a Jewish dad and 2022 01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:12,120 Speaker 2: they lived in Toronto and lived a good life. But 2023 01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,559 Speaker 2: I've got to be honest, I don't think I would 2024 01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:17,479 Speaker 2: be where I am right now talking to you if 2025 01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:20,559 Speaker 2: I was brought up on a reservation. There's a definite 2026 01:37:21,760 --> 01:37:25,719 Speaker 2: energy that has been passed down from generation to generation 2027 01:37:27,120 --> 01:37:31,240 Speaker 2: where the people are made to feel like they're worthless, 2028 01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:34,599 Speaker 2: made to feel like, hey, this isn't for me. This 2029 01:37:34,720 --> 01:37:36,479 Speaker 2: is maybe for them, but we don't get to do 2030 01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:38,360 Speaker 2: these kind of things. So I'd be like, hey, look 2031 01:37:38,400 --> 01:37:40,400 Speaker 2: at me, I did it. I remember these kids would 2032 01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:43,439 Speaker 2: tell me I was doing a TV series that I 2033 01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:47,679 Speaker 2: was producing and hosting in Winnipeg in two thousand and seven, 2034 01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:49,360 Speaker 2: eight nine, ten or something like that. I did three 2035 01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:51,720 Speaker 2: seasons of it, and the Native kids would come to 2036 01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:52,960 Speaker 2: me and go, we want to do what you're doing, 2037 01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,120 Speaker 2: but they won't let us. And I'd say, like, who 2038 01:37:56,120 --> 01:37:59,320 Speaker 2: are they? Because whoever they are, they let me, you know, 2039 01:37:59,400 --> 01:38:01,880 Speaker 2: and they think of about that what I said. But 2040 01:38:02,400 --> 01:38:04,799 Speaker 2: I was brought up to believe that anything was possible. 2041 01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:08,120 Speaker 2: I was brought up to believe that there's the King 2042 01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:10,479 Speaker 2: of England has his blood is not better than my blood, 2043 01:38:10,720 --> 01:38:12,599 Speaker 2: And I'm not buying any of that kind of bullshit. 2044 01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:14,400 Speaker 2: And I was brought up to believe that. You know, 2045 01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:17,040 Speaker 2: I don't think that he has royal blood and I 2046 01:38:17,040 --> 01:38:20,400 Speaker 2: have bullshit blood, you know. I challenge all that, and 2047 01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:23,839 Speaker 2: I think that Native people now are finding more strength 2048 01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,920 Speaker 2: and there's becoming more success. But there's still a lot 2049 01:38:26,920 --> 01:38:30,320 Speaker 2: of this feeling, especially on the poor reservations where you're 2050 01:38:30,360 --> 01:38:32,400 Speaker 2: living on welfare, then pretty much all you're getting in 2051 01:38:32,520 --> 01:38:34,200 Speaker 2: is all the food whatever they'll give you, and most 2052 01:38:34,200 --> 01:38:38,280 Speaker 2: of its gmode crap and a bunch of terrible stuff 2053 01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:41,720 Speaker 2: that's not good for you, you know. So there is 2054 01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:45,519 Speaker 2: a lot of problems with the diabetes and obesity, bad water. 2055 01:38:45,640 --> 01:38:49,040 Speaker 2: I go into Indian reservations, Bradworter and I spend our 2056 01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:52,000 Speaker 2: own money and we hooked up with swear Water and 2057 01:38:52,040 --> 01:38:53,880 Speaker 2: we go into Indian country, these places where they don't 2058 01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:55,760 Speaker 2: have he can't drink the water, and we put in 2059 01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:59,320 Speaker 2: water filtration systems in there ourselves because we can't wait 2060 01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:01,200 Speaker 2: for the government any more to figure out the problems. 2061 01:39:01,200 --> 01:39:02,840 Speaker 2: So we do it ourselves, and then the government guys 2062 01:39:02,880 --> 01:39:05,519 Speaker 2: call us, hey, hey, what are you guys doing. It's 2063 01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:07,280 Speaker 2: like what can we do to help? And it's like 2064 01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:09,280 Speaker 2: we're just doing it. Either don't come and do it 2065 01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:11,840 Speaker 2: with us, or we're going to do it Anyways, luckily 2066 01:39:11,960 --> 01:39:14,120 Speaker 2: my partner and that and where he works on Six 2067 01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:17,360 Speaker 2: Nations there were very well financed. So we're able to 2068 01:39:17,400 --> 01:39:19,559 Speaker 2: if we have to spend forty thousand dollars on water 2069 01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:23,080 Speaker 2: filtration systems and donate them through our Dream Catcher charity 2070 01:39:23,400 --> 01:39:25,280 Speaker 2: that we do in Six Nations, you know we can. 2071 01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:28,080 Speaker 2: We can get these things as we're very fortunate that way. 2072 01:39:30,240 --> 01:39:35,639 Speaker 1: Now in Canada they talk about the natives there. There's 2073 01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:41,479 Speaker 1: been a lot of controversy Native Canadian schools and tragedies tragically. 2074 01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:44,479 Speaker 1: Ip even has a song about that. What is the 2075 01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:48,400 Speaker 1: difference between being a Native in Canada as opposed to 2076 01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:49,680 Speaker 1: a Native in America? 2077 01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:54,439 Speaker 2: If any Well, there's a couple of things. In Canada, 2078 01:39:55,760 --> 01:39:59,920 Speaker 2: people identified with being Native and brought We're brought up 2079 01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:03,840 Speaker 2: as Native. They even have these cards called status cards, 2080 01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:06,559 Speaker 2: or everyone kind of has one. And then there's guys 2081 01:40:06,600 --> 01:40:09,640 Speaker 2: like us whose families denied it. They didn't want you know, 2082 01:40:09,640 --> 01:40:11,360 Speaker 2: they're great. My great grandpaent mom didn't want to be 2083 01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:13,880 Speaker 2: sent onto the trailer tears. So if you were in 2084 01:40:13,880 --> 01:40:16,200 Speaker 2: Mexican you could stay in farm in New Mexico. But 2085 01:40:16,240 --> 01:40:18,439 Speaker 2: if you're an Indian, you're gonna get shipped off, you know, 2086 01:40:18,479 --> 01:40:21,240 Speaker 2: so then we're not Indians. So there's a huge denial 2087 01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:25,280 Speaker 2: of My one friend Brian right McLoud who wrote that encyclopedia, 2088 01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:27,320 Speaker 2: told me, you guys are part of the lost Indians, 2089 01:40:27,320 --> 01:40:28,599 Speaker 2: that's what they call them. They don't know who we are, 2090 01:40:28,640 --> 01:40:29,880 Speaker 2: We don't know where we were. You know, we have 2091 01:40:29,920 --> 01:40:33,960 Speaker 2: the search fried you know where our family came from 2092 01:40:33,960 --> 01:40:36,559 Speaker 2: and how they identified and what they had to do 2093 01:40:36,680 --> 01:40:44,200 Speaker 2: to survive. In Canada, their fronts, tons of programs where 2094 01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:46,519 Speaker 2: you're an artist, you want to make a film, you 2095 01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:49,760 Speaker 2: want to make a record, there's all these funds for 2096 01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:53,160 Speaker 2: not just Native people but for their citizens. You know, 2097 01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:55,479 Speaker 2: you can get funding to do all kinds of stuff 2098 01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:57,960 Speaker 2: through your tax dollars. So everyone goes your taxes are high, 2099 01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:01,000 Speaker 2: but you actually get a lot for tax dollars, you 2100 01:41:01,000 --> 01:41:03,920 Speaker 2: know what I mean. And so that's why you see 2101 01:41:03,960 --> 01:41:06,959 Speaker 2: a lot more development in the arts from the Canadian 2102 01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:10,080 Speaker 2: Indigenous community. The Americans one just like here, you know 2103 01:41:10,120 --> 01:41:13,160 Speaker 2: it is it's it's if you can't sell something and 2104 01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:15,040 Speaker 2: make the money, then you can't you don't get money 2105 01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:18,960 Speaker 2: for it. You know, there's it's a lot harder to 2106 01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:22,000 Speaker 2: be successful in America. Than it is in Canada. 2107 01:41:24,160 --> 01:41:27,320 Speaker 1: What do you think about some of these Native American 2108 01:41:27,439 --> 01:41:33,240 Speaker 1: shows like Smoke Signals and Reservation. Never mind the recent 2109 01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:34,800 Speaker 1: Scorsese picture. 2110 01:41:35,479 --> 01:41:38,160 Speaker 2: That's funny my my friend Lily, Lily got the Academy 2111 01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:42,880 Speaker 2: Award nomination for that new Scorsese picture. Marty was, actually, well, 2112 01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:46,559 Speaker 2: that makes it sound like every Native American knows every 2113 01:41:46,640 --> 01:41:49,559 Speaker 2: other Native American. Kind of do you kind of do 2114 01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:51,320 Speaker 2: you figure out there's not a lot of us, Bob, 2115 01:41:51,680 --> 01:41:53,639 Speaker 2: we kind of do you figure out who's who, especially 2116 01:41:53,640 --> 01:41:56,760 Speaker 2: the people that are doing things. You know, then you 2117 01:41:56,800 --> 01:41:58,439 Speaker 2: have a little bit of this thing that goes on 2118 01:41:58,600 --> 01:42:01,880 Speaker 2: with gatekeepers, which I don't participate in that because I 2119 01:42:01,920 --> 01:42:06,960 Speaker 2: just think that's just ridiculous, but you know I had Marty. Yeah, 2120 01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:08,520 Speaker 2: wait wait wait wait wait wait wait. 2121 01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:11,360 Speaker 1: What gatekeepers in the Native American world? 2122 01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:16,120 Speaker 2: You put some it happens, it's a common nature. People 2123 01:42:16,160 --> 01:42:17,800 Speaker 2: have been held down for a long time. So you 2124 01:42:18,280 --> 01:42:25,719 Speaker 2: empower some person and can they really allow you Remember 2125 01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:28,360 Speaker 2: on the movie Out of Africa where they were trying 2126 01:42:28,360 --> 01:42:30,960 Speaker 2: to put a school on for the for the African kids, 2127 01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:33,280 Speaker 2: and the chief shut it down because he found out 2128 01:42:33,280 --> 01:42:35,400 Speaker 2: that the kids were actually becoming smarter than the chief, 2129 01:42:35,960 --> 01:42:37,880 Speaker 2: so he shut it down. Well, there's a lot of 2130 01:42:37,880 --> 01:42:40,960 Speaker 2: that gatekeeper thing where oh, this girl's so popular with 2131 01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:44,240 Speaker 2: her music, and so warners or give her a record label, 2132 01:42:44,320 --> 01:42:46,960 Speaker 2: and she's supposed to help develop native stuff. Well she 2133 01:42:47,040 --> 01:42:48,840 Speaker 2: never had a hit record herself, or he never had 2134 01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:50,960 Speaker 2: to hit record themselves, So how are they supposed to 2135 01:42:51,040 --> 01:42:52,760 Speaker 2: know if this guy's any good. So what they end 2136 01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:55,120 Speaker 2: up doing is they work with people who worship them 2137 01:42:55,280 --> 01:42:58,320 Speaker 2: and are their friends, and anybody that might be a threat, 2138 01:42:58,320 --> 01:43:01,600 Speaker 2: that might be more popular better than them, maybe they 2139 01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:05,920 Speaker 2: push away where I again, not that I'm not trying 2140 01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:07,640 Speaker 2: to brag. I want to be the dumbest guy in 2141 01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:09,200 Speaker 2: the room. I want to surround myself with the baddest 2142 01:43:09,200 --> 01:43:11,559 Speaker 2: ass dudes there are. But if I surround it with you, 2143 01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:14,240 Speaker 2: I'm gonna try to eat you alive. I'm gonna try 2144 01:43:14,240 --> 01:43:16,880 Speaker 2: my best to eat you alive to prove that you 2145 01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:19,280 Speaker 2: are the best. And otherwise I'm gonna eat you alive, 2146 01:43:19,280 --> 01:43:21,120 Speaker 2: and I'm gonna get bored with you. You know, And 2147 01:43:21,160 --> 01:43:22,880 Speaker 2: me and my friends do this, Phil X and I 2148 01:43:22,920 --> 01:43:25,400 Speaker 2: and Richie Kotts and all those guitar player guys. We 2149 01:43:25,479 --> 01:43:27,639 Speaker 2: love each other and we respect each other. But when 2150 01:43:27,640 --> 01:43:30,880 Speaker 2: we get on that stage, man Philo embarrass me or 2151 01:43:31,120 --> 01:43:33,040 Speaker 2: I'll try my best to like, I'm not gonna be crappy. 2152 01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:34,479 Speaker 2: I'm gonna kill them, you know what I mean. It's like, 2153 01:43:34,760 --> 01:43:38,240 Speaker 2: I think there's competition, but up there, instead of finding competition, 2154 01:43:38,320 --> 01:43:41,280 Speaker 2: what they do sometimes is they surround themselves with people 2155 01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:45,599 Speaker 2: who worship them. And that's no good for anybody. 2156 01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:48,719 Speaker 1: But you were talking, I cut you off about these 2157 01:43:48,840 --> 01:43:55,320 Speaker 1: Indian As people say, but Native American productions Killers of 2158 01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:59,080 Speaker 1: the Flower Moon smoke signals reservation. You're gonna give me 2159 01:43:59,080 --> 01:43:59,559 Speaker 1: your take. 2160 01:43:59,439 --> 01:44:03,840 Speaker 2: On those, Yeah, I like. Okay, So Killers of the 2161 01:44:03,880 --> 01:44:09,360 Speaker 2: Flower Moon, let's say. You know, obviously it's like a 2162 01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:13,719 Speaker 2: powerful movie. You see the Injustice. Okay, there's another series 2163 01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:18,080 Speaker 2: that's really amazing you should watch and it's called Little Bird, 2164 01:44:18,240 --> 01:44:20,080 Speaker 2: and it's about how the nuns used to come in 2165 01:44:20,120 --> 01:44:23,920 Speaker 2: and take the kids away because they were let's find 2166 01:44:23,960 --> 01:44:25,760 Speaker 2: a better home so these kids have a better chance. 2167 01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:28,120 Speaker 2: You know. They was horrible. They were doing it into 2168 01:44:28,160 --> 01:44:32,280 Speaker 2: the eighties. I think, you know, they're you know, and 2169 01:44:33,840 --> 01:44:36,560 Speaker 2: these things are like a victim films, you know, and 2170 01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:38,519 Speaker 2: people need to know the history. So you have to 2171 01:44:38,520 --> 01:44:41,320 Speaker 2: make these victim films, but non native people who are 2172 01:44:41,560 --> 01:44:44,679 Speaker 2: gatekeepers that get to decide what shows get made. Oh, 2173 01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:48,680 Speaker 2: you know, it's like in spinal Tap when Artie Fluffkin says, Oh, 2174 01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:51,000 Speaker 2: kick my ass, it's my fault. Well, they're kind of 2175 01:44:51,040 --> 01:44:53,320 Speaker 2: like that. Oh, all white people are bad. We need 2176 01:44:53,360 --> 01:44:56,360 Speaker 2: to tell this story how we screwed you over, you know. 2177 01:44:56,640 --> 01:45:01,759 Speaker 2: And if you really watch Rumble, Rumble the co director 2178 01:45:01,840 --> 01:45:07,200 Speaker 2: Catherine Bainbridge, and they kept reaching for the negative because 2179 01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:10,719 Speaker 2: they were angry, and there was negative, There was racism, 2180 01:45:10,800 --> 01:45:13,519 Speaker 2: there was all this stuff. And I kept pushing for 2181 01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:16,760 Speaker 2: a film about heroes. I don't want to film about victims, 2182 01:45:17,160 --> 01:45:19,000 Speaker 2: and a lot of the films that get made, unfortunately, 2183 01:45:19,000 --> 01:45:21,479 Speaker 2: and Rumble was the story of heroes. We really kept 2184 01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:23,840 Speaker 2: the victim thing out of it. You feel the victimness 2185 01:45:23,840 --> 01:45:25,320 Speaker 2: if you do it right, but you don't have to 2186 01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:27,719 Speaker 2: harp on it. And we don't want to be victims, 2187 01:45:28,000 --> 01:45:30,080 Speaker 2: you know, we want to be heroes. And a lot 2188 01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:32,599 Speaker 2: of these films that get made now are still victims. 2189 01:45:32,600 --> 01:45:37,760 Speaker 2: Oh you got your ass kicked, and it doesn't leave 2190 01:45:37,800 --> 01:45:41,160 Speaker 2: you feeling like anything's better, If anything that makes you 2191 01:45:41,200 --> 01:45:43,040 Speaker 2: feel like I'm trying to releaeve some guilt or some 2192 01:45:43,080 --> 01:45:45,519 Speaker 2: shit if I'm non native and I don't like that. 2193 01:45:45,560 --> 01:45:49,080 Speaker 2: Reservation Dogs was at least it had a lightness to 2194 01:45:49,120 --> 01:45:51,519 Speaker 2: it that was fun. And the kid, the Pharaoh, the 2195 01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:54,400 Speaker 2: young kid, he's got so much star power. I love him. 2196 01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:56,559 Speaker 2: He's doing a film right now in England. He texted 2197 01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:58,840 Speaker 2: me yesterday because, like you said, all the guys and 2198 01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:04,240 Speaker 2: all us native guys to know each Okay. 2199 01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:06,720 Speaker 1: Prior to this moment, I only knew you in email. 2200 01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:11,959 Speaker 1: I'm talking to you now. You're incredibly endearing. 2201 01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:13,760 Speaker 2: Oh thank you. I mean, you talk to me. 2202 01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:16,200 Speaker 1: I feel like you're You're the best. You're our best friend. 2203 01:46:16,240 --> 01:46:19,439 Speaker 1: We want to hang with you. You have any enemies, 2204 01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:20,680 Speaker 1: anybody dislike you. 2205 01:46:21,520 --> 01:46:23,640 Speaker 2: A lot of people hate me because you know, some 2206 01:46:23,680 --> 01:46:26,320 Speaker 2: people don't like I'm not you know. Maybe it sounds cocky, 2207 01:46:26,360 --> 01:46:28,080 Speaker 2: but I try just to be confident. I try to 2208 01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:33,040 Speaker 2: know who I am. I'm not usually the best diplomat, 2209 01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:35,639 Speaker 2: like if somebody's you know, I had the hardest time 2210 01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:37,680 Speaker 2: when we're when I was a kid, and I don't 2211 01:46:37,720 --> 01:46:39,479 Speaker 2: know how you did this being in a music business. 2212 01:46:39,479 --> 01:46:41,719 Speaker 2: But I go see your friend's Ben and I suck, 2213 01:46:42,400 --> 01:46:45,400 Speaker 2: and I'd have to lie to them and I and 2214 01:46:45,439 --> 01:46:47,360 Speaker 2: I feel like when I was lying to them, like hey, man, 2215 01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:48,920 Speaker 2: you guys are great, I feel like they were looking 2216 01:46:48,920 --> 01:46:51,040 Speaker 2: in my eyes and telling me you could see I'm lying. 2217 01:46:51,600 --> 01:46:53,559 Speaker 2: So one day my friend Melvin Brandon Junior is from 2218 01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:55,800 Speaker 2: den Rey Network, says to me, Oh, you don't lie 2219 01:46:55,800 --> 01:46:58,760 Speaker 2: to them, you say, And when they say, hey, what'd 2220 01:46:58,760 --> 01:47:00,960 Speaker 2: you think of the show? You say, and you guys 2221 01:47:01,000 --> 01:47:04,519 Speaker 2: were up there doing it. And it got me off 2222 01:47:04,560 --> 01:47:06,840 Speaker 2: the hook because it was positive. It didn't mean that 2223 01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,320 Speaker 2: I liked them, and I didn't have to lie, you know. 2224 01:47:09,479 --> 01:47:11,920 Speaker 2: So I got to tell you. You know, you print 2225 01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:13,880 Speaker 2: a lot of my letters. When I write write on 2226 01:47:13,920 --> 01:47:15,880 Speaker 2: some of the things you write about, which which some 2227 01:47:15,880 --> 01:47:17,519 Speaker 2: some of the guys around here are like, oh, your 2228 01:47:17,560 --> 01:47:21,080 Speaker 2: Bob's little little a little pal. You always post your letters, 2229 01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:23,479 Speaker 2: and I'm like, yeah, I think it's cool. And then 2230 01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:25,880 Speaker 2: you post my letters, man, because you know, it means 2231 01:47:25,960 --> 01:47:28,040 Speaker 2: maybe I'm saying something that makes sense to some people 2232 01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:30,599 Speaker 2: with some brains. You know, you don't know, you know, so, 2233 01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:33,200 Speaker 2: but yeah, I get shipped sometimes because you post my letters, 2234 01:47:33,200 --> 01:47:34,600 Speaker 2: and some of the people in the business, you know, 2235 01:47:35,080 --> 01:47:38,800 Speaker 2: we are more. So we call doll your bob's a 2236 01:47:38,800 --> 01:47:41,400 Speaker 2: little pet. I get some shit for that, just so 2237 01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:43,439 Speaker 2: you know, you make it. 2238 01:47:43,360 --> 01:47:46,800 Speaker 1: Sound like it was all an accident, but nothing's a 2239 01:47:46,800 --> 01:47:50,600 Speaker 1: fucking accident. There's a lot of desire, a lot of networking, 2240 01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:54,720 Speaker 1: and somehow you do it and don't look like you 2241 01:47:54,800 --> 01:47:57,679 Speaker 1: have sharp elbows. A lot of people they do it 2242 01:47:57,720 --> 01:48:00,760 Speaker 1: and you go, I can see him in that, and 2243 01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:04,080 Speaker 1: you get a negative feeling about him, but not from you. 2244 01:48:04,240 --> 01:48:06,759 Speaker 2: Maybe because I can actually put on the instrument deliver, 2245 01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:08,559 Speaker 2: or I can write the song. And I had publishing 2246 01:48:08,560 --> 01:48:10,720 Speaker 2: deals with Virgin with Polygrin. You know, you gotta do it. 2247 01:48:10,760 --> 01:48:12,799 Speaker 2: You don't just get those deals. You got to deliver. 2248 01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:15,920 Speaker 2: So maybe people can respect the fact that, you know 2249 01:48:16,000 --> 01:48:18,280 Speaker 2: that I produced a track with Don Woz who became 2250 01:48:18,280 --> 01:48:21,080 Speaker 2: the biggest producer you know, and I actually was a kid, 2251 01:48:21,400 --> 01:48:24,479 Speaker 2: you know, but not like I'm the greatest. But also 2252 01:48:24,680 --> 01:48:26,400 Speaker 2: I think all those a lot of people have those 2253 01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:29,360 Speaker 2: desires and that drive and the push and they just 2254 01:48:29,400 --> 01:48:31,920 Speaker 2: don't get lucky. I just think I got lucky. And 2255 01:48:32,000 --> 01:48:34,519 Speaker 2: you know how it is if you connect, if you 2256 01:48:34,680 --> 01:48:37,640 Speaker 2: fall into one thing once I did George Clinton, like, 2257 01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:40,120 Speaker 2: let's just say it wasn't George Clinton. Let's say it 2258 01:48:40,160 --> 01:48:43,280 Speaker 2: was David Cassidy or something, which still would have been 2259 01:48:43,320 --> 01:48:44,680 Speaker 2: a job and he would have paid me, and I 2260 01:48:44,720 --> 01:48:47,479 Speaker 2: could have played in Vegas. Well, that wouldn't have worked. 2261 01:48:47,640 --> 01:48:51,439 Speaker 2: George Clinton had so much credibility that it was George Clinton. 2262 01:48:51,760 --> 01:48:55,160 Speaker 2: You must be cool, okay. Keith Richards used to say, 2263 01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:58,040 Speaker 2: you know, this is a big thing that happened. One time. 2264 01:48:58,200 --> 01:49:00,960 Speaker 2: I got invited to Keith richards fiftieth birthday party before 2265 01:49:00,960 --> 01:49:03,400 Speaker 2: I knew him in New York. I was in New 2266 01:49:03,479 --> 01:49:08,160 Speaker 2: York City and walk in the door and it's very private, 2267 01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:11,559 Speaker 2: and the first guy I see is Bernard Fowler, who's 2268 01:49:11,960 --> 01:49:14,479 Speaker 2: like my brother. And Fowler looks me. He it was 2269 01:49:14,640 --> 01:49:17,880 Speaker 2: blah blah blah. And then there's there's Clapton sitting there 2270 01:49:17,920 --> 01:49:20,360 Speaker 2: in Naomi Campbell and you know the whole thing, you 2271 01:49:20,400 --> 01:49:23,479 Speaker 2: know it is. And then I see Ivan Neville. Iven 2272 01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:26,920 Speaker 2: comes up gives me a big hug. Everything's cool. Keith 2273 01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:32,160 Speaker 2: Richards walks up, he shakes my hand, kind of gives 2274 01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:34,360 Speaker 2: me a hug and talks to me a bit and 2275 01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:38,960 Speaker 2: then he leads, and so I think I'm in. Keith 2276 01:49:39,080 --> 01:49:41,080 Speaker 2: likes me I'm in because you know, if Keith don't 2277 01:49:41,120 --> 01:49:43,400 Speaker 2: like you, there's nothing you can do. Man, it's gnarley, 2278 01:49:43,840 --> 01:49:45,880 Speaker 2: you know. And when I was playing with Jagger, I 2279 01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:48,240 Speaker 2: used to yell, Mick, tell me what Stone songs were 2280 01:49:48,240 --> 01:49:49,840 Speaker 2: playing because I don't want I don't want to not 2281 01:49:50,000 --> 01:49:51,720 Speaker 2: know it and play it wrong and have Keith want 2282 01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:53,800 Speaker 2: to pull his knife out and stab me, you know, so, 2283 01:49:54,320 --> 01:49:58,000 Speaker 2: but Keith so, Keith walks away. Later on I find 2284 01:49:58,000 --> 01:50:02,439 Speaker 2: out Keith goes back to Bernard Fowler and he says, 2285 01:50:02,520 --> 01:50:07,120 Speaker 2: who the fuck is Salas? Is he cool? The Fowler? 2286 01:50:07,320 --> 01:50:09,559 Speaker 2: You know, he's not a hype guy. He's like, yeah, 2287 01:50:09,600 --> 01:50:12,280 Speaker 2: he's cool. Later on I find out he goes to 2288 01:50:12,280 --> 01:50:15,719 Speaker 2: Ivan Neville, Who the fuck is Salas? Is he cool? 2289 01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:19,400 Speaker 2: Ivan never goes, yeah, he's my brother, He's cool. Then 2290 01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:21,920 Speaker 2: I got invited to sit at his table and you know, 2291 01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:24,559 Speaker 2: drink vodka. But you know, there's a thing about it 2292 01:50:24,640 --> 01:50:27,240 Speaker 2: that when you got to get in and you got it, 2293 01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:30,040 Speaker 2: you don't just get in and you can't be all bullshit, 2294 01:50:30,680 --> 01:50:32,280 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And maybe you got to 2295 01:50:32,280 --> 01:50:34,120 Speaker 2: know how to fight, you know what I mean. Maybe 2296 01:50:34,160 --> 01:50:35,800 Speaker 2: you got to know how to tell someone to fuck off. 2297 01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:38,320 Speaker 2: You know, and not be an ass kisser, but you 2298 01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:40,960 Speaker 2: got to be. You know, if you associate with the 2299 01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:45,760 Speaker 2: right kind of people, you you may not get rich 2300 01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:47,679 Speaker 2: or rise to the top, but you will get respect 2301 01:50:47,960 --> 01:50:50,960 Speaker 2: and and and when you lose that respect, like if 2302 01:50:50,960 --> 01:50:53,599 Speaker 2: I were have picked the wrong bands to play with. Okay, 2303 01:50:53,600 --> 01:50:55,720 Speaker 2: I'll tell you. Richie Cootson one of my best friends, 2304 01:50:55,920 --> 01:50:59,200 Speaker 2: insanely great guitar player. Early on, he joined Poison when 2305 01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:02,439 Speaker 2: c c de Bill quick. Okay, that didn't turn out 2306 01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:04,280 Speaker 2: so good. They wrote a few hits and then he 2307 01:51:04,360 --> 01:51:07,800 Speaker 2: went on his own again. Years later, he gets a 2308 01:51:07,840 --> 01:51:11,400 Speaker 2: call to audition for Trent Resnor. You're Twiggy because Tweggy 2309 01:51:11,439 --> 01:51:14,799 Speaker 2: knows Richie's an incredible guitar player and incredible singer. Richie 2310 01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:18,840 Speaker 2: comes in auditions for him, blows Trent Resnor doesn't want 2311 01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:20,439 Speaker 2: him to come, but he comes, and he doesn't He 2312 01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:24,040 Speaker 2: does it as a favorite of Twiggy. He blows Trent 2313 01:51:24,120 --> 01:51:28,640 Speaker 2: Resnor's mind like he should because he's amazing. Trent Resner goes, 2314 01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:30,479 Speaker 2: Oh my god, he goes, I had no idea you 2315 01:51:30,479 --> 01:51:32,280 Speaker 2: were going to be this good. He goes, I want 2316 01:51:32,320 --> 01:51:35,200 Speaker 2: to hire you, he goes, but I can't think of 2317 01:51:35,200 --> 01:51:38,640 Speaker 2: what I'm gonna say the first time a magazine or 2318 01:51:38,760 --> 01:51:42,160 Speaker 2: somebody interviews me and asks, what made you hire the 2319 01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:46,400 Speaker 2: guy from poison so Richie couldn't get that gig. So 2320 01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:49,040 Speaker 2: sometimes you gave, You make a wrong move and you 2321 01:51:49,120 --> 01:51:50,400 Speaker 2: pay for it for a long time. 2322 01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:56,439 Speaker 1: Wow, you're really drop in wisdom here, Stevie. We could 2323 01:51:56,520 --> 01:52:01,520 Speaker 1: go on forever. Listen. You're a great guy, all incredible stories. 2324 01:52:02,080 --> 01:52:05,400 Speaker 1: I could literally talk to you all afternoon. I want 2325 01:52:05,400 --> 01:52:08,480 Speaker 1: to thank you for taking this time with my audience. 2326 01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:11,880 Speaker 2: Awesome, Thank you, Bob's it was a pleasure and I'm 2327 01:52:11,880 --> 01:52:15,599 Speaker 2: glad I'm on your radar. Thank you until next time. 2328 01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:17,320 Speaker 1: This is Bob Left, Sat