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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftstts Podcast. My

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Speaker 1: guest today is the one and only Steve Holtz. Steve,

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Speaker 1: where are you right now?

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Speaker 2: I'm in Sydney, Australia and it is Thursday morning?

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Speaker 1: And how do you end up in Sydney?

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Speaker 2: Well, it's my twenty second time over here and I'm

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Speaker 2: on a tour. I'm on my way up to play

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Speaker 2: Byron Bay Blues Fest. And so that is how I

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Speaker 2: ended up in Sydney. I played a show last night

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Speaker 2: that win till about midnight at a really cool club

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Speaker 2: and it was packed. And the night before I was

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Speaker 2: in Newcastle and so I'm here on the road my

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Speaker 2: twenty second time. Can't believe it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the beginning. How do you

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Speaker 1: go to Australia the first time?

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Speaker 2: The first time I went to Australia, I was invited

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Speaker 2: to come over with Jewel and we had put together

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Speaker 2: a band with myself and Tony Hall playing bass, Brady

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Speaker 2: Blade on drums, Doug Pettybone on electric guitar, and Steve

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Speaker 2: George on keys. And Steve George was in a band

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Speaker 2: called Mister Mister and he had written a song called

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Speaker 2: Currie Eleys song and take these Broken Wings, and we

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Speaker 2: put together this band and Jewel had had this hit

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Speaker 2: record out and so I went over and I got

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Speaker 2: to open the shows and be in her band. And

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Speaker 2: that's what first brought me to Australia back in nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety nine.

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Speaker 1: Okay, twenty two times. Almost no music lact is going

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Speaker 1: to Australia twenty two times, So explain how you keep

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Speaker 1: going back.

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Speaker 2: I have boundless energy, and so Australia has become kind

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Speaker 2: of just like another tour stop to me. I live

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Speaker 2: in Nashville, and it's like, oh, do you want to

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Speaker 2: go to Louisville and play a show? It's that easy

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Speaker 2: for me now. I just think, oh yeah, I'll fly

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Speaker 2: down to Melbourne, Australia, and then hit Sydney and go

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Speaker 2: to Tasmania. I love it, and so I've always kept

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Speaker 2: coming back, and I rent cars and I drive on

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Speaker 2: the left side of the road, use my iPhone for

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Speaker 2: the maps, and I just always end up at the

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Speaker 2: gigs and I've never quit coming back. So it's become

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Speaker 2: a regular tour stop.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you want to play Australia, do you have an

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Speaker 1: agent that books the dates. How do you line up

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Speaker 1: the dates? Yes?

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Speaker 2: So I at the time, the first time I came

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Speaker 2: over here, I was on CIA and I had this

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Speaker 2: agent named Rick Roskin, so he booked the tour and

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Speaker 2: then Frontier, a big agency down here, brought Jewel over

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Speaker 2: and then they saw me play when I opened and

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Speaker 2: they said, how would you like to come back? We'll

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Speaker 2: bring you back. So that was how it started here.

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Speaker 2: But now I have my own agent. He's a smaller agency,

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Speaker 2: and he saw me play somewhere and said he wanted

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Speaker 2: to work with me, and that's what me back and

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Speaker 2: keeps me coming back. And there's so many festivals I

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Speaker 2: can play.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so if you go to Australia, how many gigs

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Speaker 1: can you play?

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Now, when most people come here, they'll

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Speaker 2: do like maybe four gigs. I'll do like twenty to thirty.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy because I go to all these little country

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Speaker 2: towns now and they sell out. And like I was

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Speaker 2: just in a little place called Archie's Creek and you'll

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Speaker 2: get three hundred people in there. They make you a

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Speaker 2: great meal and you're hanging out with all these crazy

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Speaker 2: Australians and every night it's just like a new thing,

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Speaker 2: and I show up and they go all out for

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Speaker 2: the shows, and they're just so welcoming.

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Speaker 1: How do they know you?

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Speaker 2: And Archie's creak just over the twenty two years, like

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Speaker 2: everything in my career has been built with my hands,

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Speaker 2: just playing live shows, and then people talk about the

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Speaker 2: live shows, and every show I just go out and

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Speaker 2: I give all the effort I can and then they

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Speaker 2: tell their people and everything just keeps happening and it

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Speaker 2: slowly grows. So it's the most organic thing ever.

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Speaker 1: Is it lucrative for you to go to Australia?

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Speaker 2: It really is, believe it or not. Like I go

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Speaker 2: over here and I make money. I actually have an

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Speaker 2: Australian tax accountant who is in co He works with

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Speaker 2: my accountant in the United States, and he just can't

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Speaker 2: believe because I bring over so much merch and I'm

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Speaker 2: slinging T shirts, tope bags, hats, Vinyl records, CDs and

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Speaker 2: it just goes on and on and I sell all

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Speaker 2: this merch and my wife is my tour manager, and

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Speaker 2: we're just like a dog and pony show and we

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Speaker 2: go in and we just sell merch. We play shows

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Speaker 2: and every night it's just a blast. And then the

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Speaker 2: next day I'm headed to another city.

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Speaker 1: Now you have hardcore fans, but for those who have

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Speaker 1: never seen a Steve Poltz show, do your best to

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Speaker 1: describe it.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's kind of madness because I've never used a

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Speaker 2: set list in my life, and I never know what's

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Speaker 2: going to happen. So I have fans, like last night

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Speaker 2: fans that came three shows in a row from different cities.

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Speaker 2: They drive. It's like the Grateful Dead fans or something,

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Speaker 2: and they're never going to get the same show twice.

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Speaker 2: So what it is is I just go out and

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Speaker 2: I just sort of feel the room and I can

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Speaker 2: feel the energy of everybody, and I slowly take them

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Speaker 2: on a two hour journey. And I've tried to really

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Speaker 2: learn to play fewer songs, like because for a while

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Speaker 2: I was doing four hour shows and I realized, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's got to be a beginning, a middle, and an end.

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Speaker 2: So I've learned to pair it down.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if every show is different, you know, back in

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Speaker 1: the old days of classic rock, you'd go to see

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Speaker 1: acts in different cities who would have the exact same pattern. Okay,

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Speaker 1: your stories are different. I mean, how much is prepared

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Speaker 1: how much have you told the stories before? How much

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Speaker 1: are you making up that night.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'll have stories that'll be a rough outline, and

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Speaker 2: they're always changing. It's like if you took a pack

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Speaker 2: of tortillas and they were in saran wrap and you

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Speaker 2: nailed them to a wall and they slowly got mold

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Speaker 2: and the mold grew on them. That's the stories. They

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Speaker 2: change and they blend in for whatever city I'm in,

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Speaker 2: and then I'll talk about what happened that day. So

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Speaker 2: the thing I've learned is if I go on stage

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Speaker 2: and just talk about what I did that day, something

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Speaker 2: funny is going to come out of it. And I'm

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Speaker 2: going to take the piss out of the audience, make

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Speaker 2: fun of their accent and what I did that day,

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Speaker 2: and hopefully have them all smiling and feeling good. I

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Speaker 2: always want like a sense of redemption by the end

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Speaker 2: of the show, where everybody's just up there on their

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Speaker 2: feet and they're just feeling really good.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what happened yesterday that was worth talking about?

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Speaker 2: Okay, So for instance, last night, I got on stage

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Speaker 2: and I had written a little story about I told

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Speaker 2: people that they need to start creating, because if you

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Speaker 2: have friends over for dinner. What I said is you

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Speaker 2: should have them prepare a poem that they wrote, because

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Speaker 2: if you write something, it will feel good for you,

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Speaker 2: and then to perform it will make you feel nervous.

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Speaker 2: And the body makes its own drugs, and who here

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Speaker 2: doesn't love drugs. That's what I told the audience. And

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Speaker 2: so I want you guys to feel good, and so

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Speaker 2: I would give them an example of a poem. And

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have to rhyme, but you just go up

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Speaker 2: and you get to do this poem and it makes

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Speaker 2: it so much fun. So, for instance, last night I

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Speaker 2: was on stage and I just I remember I was

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Speaker 2: sitting there and I said, dear Diary, this was my poem.

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Speaker 2: I took a shower and used doctor Bronner's peppermint hemp

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Speaker 2: hippie soap. It smells so good. I washed my armpits

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Speaker 2: and my bum and my private parts. And then I

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Speaker 2: thought to myself, I need to wash my feet too.

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Speaker 2: The water in the shower isn't going to just clean them.

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Speaker 2: I should scrub them with his hand towel and soap.

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Speaker 2: Now I'm sixty four years old, So I lifted up

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Speaker 2: my foot and scrubbed it real good with the soap

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Speaker 2: every little toe. It felt so good and clean, like

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Speaker 2: I was doing God's work. Then I washed my other

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Speaker 2: foot and that felt good too. I was so happy

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Speaker 2: and proud that my feet were clean. Then I thought

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Speaker 2: I should scrub my butthole because I have this hand

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Speaker 2: towel and lots of soap. But then I was worried

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Speaker 2: that the foot germs might get into my butt like

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Speaker 2: athlete's foot, so I scrubbed my buttole anyways, and then

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Speaker 2: I had to pee in I thought to my so

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Speaker 2: I should wait till I get out of the shower

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Speaker 2: and pee in the toilet. But then I looked around

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Speaker 2: and Sharon wasn't in the bathroom, and I obviously wasn't

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Speaker 2: live streaming. So I peed real good like, and I

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Speaker 2: watched it all go down the drain, and it felt

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Speaker 2: like I was doing something bad and that felt good

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Speaker 2: to me. So I got out of the shower and

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Speaker 2: dried off. Now I can't sleep because as I was

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Speaker 2: drying off, I looked in the mirror and my balls

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Speaker 2: looked terry. So I thought I'd try shaving them, even

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Speaker 2: though I'd never shaved them before. It just seemed like

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Speaker 2: an impulsive decision. So I tried it, but I accidentally

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Speaker 2: got a cut on my scrotum and red blood dripped

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Speaker 2: into the white sink. It looked really cool, like art,

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Speaker 2: and I like art. Then I signed my name in

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Speaker 2: the sink with a swirly S and a swirly P.

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Speaker 2: But then Sharon walked into the bathroom as I was

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Speaker 2: stretching my ball sack and looking at the blood, and

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Speaker 2: she goes, what the fuck is wrong with you? And

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Speaker 2: then some the air scaped out of my butt and

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Speaker 2: made a party sound. So I decided I should go

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Speaker 2: to sleep and not shave my balls anymore, and Sharon

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Speaker 2: put a band aid on them. The shaving was a

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Speaker 2: bad idea. Thank you God for listening to me, your

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Speaker 2: friend Steve. So I did that piece last night because

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Speaker 2: I knew it would make me sweat to do that

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Speaker 2: on stage, and I just wanted to take them on

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Speaker 2: a journey, and see, I like to take a risk.

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Speaker 2: And then my body makes a drug and that drug

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Speaker 2: is this adrenaline, and then all limits are off and

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Speaker 2: I can sing any song I want because I've taken

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Speaker 2: them to a place where I want them to go,

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Speaker 2: and I want to encourage them to write.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned this drug adrenaline. To what degree do you

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Speaker 1: use or have used recreational drugs or alcohol?

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Speaker 2: Oh? Man. It all started when I was young and

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Speaker 2: I was an altar boy in the Catholic Church, and

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Speaker 2: I was in Palm Springs, California, at Saint Teresa's and

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Speaker 2: they had this altar wine and I would drink it.

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Speaker 2: I called it backstage, and the priest would leave the

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Speaker 2: altar wine back there, and I'd go out as the

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Speaker 2: altar boy at Saint Teresa's and I would pretend I

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Speaker 2: was a French waiter, so I'd bring the wine up

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Speaker 2: to the priest and when they ring the bells, that

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Speaker 2: changes the wine into Jesus's blood. This is what they

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Speaker 2: tell you. So I would go up and pour the

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Speaker 2: wine into the gold chalice that the priest is holding,

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Speaker 2: and I would say, this is in nineteen sixty seven,

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Speaker 2: Goblin Savignon. He would be good with it, Phil Mignon, Goodrea,

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Speaker 2: and then the priest would just look at me and go,

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Speaker 2: this guy is crazy. And that kind of basically stopped

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Speaker 2: my altar boy career. And so then I kept drinking,

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Speaker 2: and I would have fun drinking, and that led to

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Speaker 2: marijuana queludes in the seventies led to cocaine, opium, everything,

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Speaker 2: and then, like any good musician, I ended up in

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Speaker 2: rehab nineteen years ago and I haven't had a drink since,

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Speaker 2: and my career got better due to not drinking and drugging.

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Speaker 1: Okay, reab only works if you want to get clean.

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Speaker 1: What was the motivation to go to rehab? And why

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Speaker 1: did it works? People have gone like ten times and

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Speaker 1: it still hasn't worked.

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Speaker 2: The reason it worked for me is because I never

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Speaker 2: wanted to do it till I was ready, and I

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Speaker 2: knew one day it was going to happen. I just

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Speaker 2: could feel I was heading into that direction. And I

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Speaker 2: had this best friend of mine named Steve both spelled

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Speaker 2: fot and we had written a Rugburns song my old band,

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Speaker 2: the Rugburns, and the song was called Hitchhiker Joe. It's

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Speaker 2: about a cannibalistic hitchhiker that would hitchhike and then he

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Speaker 2: would eat you, and so we made a video for

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Speaker 2: it and everything, and then Steve got into drugs and

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Speaker 2: he got stabbed to death in a crack deal that

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Speaker 2: went awry with some prostitutes, and so I had to

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Speaker 2: id him at the Morgue and I had a nervous breakdown.

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Speaker 2: And I remember I flew back to San Diego from

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Speaker 2: being on the road. I've been doing blow all night

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Speaker 2: and I kind of collapsed at the airport night. There

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Speaker 2: was this one attorney. I knew this guy, Michael Wilson,

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Speaker 2: and I called him and he heard it in my voice.

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Speaker 2: He answered the phone. I don't even know how he

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Speaker 2: answered the phone because he had secretaries, but he heard

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Speaker 2: my voice and I said Michael, and he goes Stephen

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Speaker 2: and he goes, what's up. And I said, I'm in

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Speaker 2: big trouble. I've gone insane. And he said, you need

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Speaker 2: to go right away to this rehab place. And for

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Speaker 2: some reason, after twenty eight days in rehab, they graduated

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Speaker 2: everybody except for me, and they said you need to

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Speaker 2: do another twenty eight days. So I did another twenty

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Speaker 2: eight days and then they let me go, and I

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Speaker 2: remember I got out and I had a show at

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Speaker 2: the Belly Up in San Diego Salona Beach, and they

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Speaker 2: sent guards with me to make sure I wouldn't drink.

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Speaker 2: And then it was weird Bob. I just I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to drink anymore. I realized I could do more

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Speaker 2: damage not drinking and drugging, and it was getting in

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Speaker 2: my way of my muse and my creativity. And I

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Speaker 2: love not drinking like I love it. It's a drug

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Speaker 2: to not be on drugs and to just create and

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Speaker 2: take chances and risks.

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Speaker 1: Well, I had a similar thing giving up drinking, and

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Speaker 1: it is liberating in a way that people don't understand.

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Speaker 1: But let's go back. You're playing these festivals in Australia.

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Speaker 1: If you play a festival, not everybody knows who you are,

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Speaker 1: and it's like being an opening act at an arena

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Speaker 1: for a superstar. It's very frustrating. How do you win

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Speaker 1: over a larger audience who is unaware of you and

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Speaker 1: may not be paying attention.

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Speaker 2: It's the greatest thing in the world. So before I

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Speaker 2: go out, I say a little prayer to my id

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Speaker 2: of whatever the powers that be are in the sky.

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Speaker 2: Because when I went to rehab, they said you needed

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Speaker 2: a higher power, and that higher power was God. And

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Speaker 2: I had a hard time with the God thing. So

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Speaker 2: I made my higher power Neil Young because he was

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Speaker 2: a power greater than myself, I figured, and they accepted that.

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Speaker 2: So Neil Young became a higher power. And then as

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Speaker 2: it went on, I had no problem with the God thing,

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Speaker 2: the idea of that there might be something up there, stronger,

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Speaker 2: and who knows what it is if it's just a spirit.

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Speaker 2: So I just say a prayer of thanks. I don't

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Speaker 2: pray to be good, but I do this visualization thing.

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Speaker 2: It only takes me a minute where I picture everybody

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Speaker 2: on their feet smiling, and I've converted the room and

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Speaker 2: it's just going to be I've done some work that

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Speaker 2: was good. I made people feel good. Maybe I'm down

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Speaker 2: in the middle of the crowd, maybe I'm on the stage,

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Speaker 2: but I love it. I just like coming out with

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Speaker 2: whatever I'm feeling. So it's just honest because people can tell.

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Speaker 2: And an audience is like a horse, and a horse

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Speaker 2: knows when you get on it, if you're scared of it,

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Speaker 2: if you come out and let the audience know you're

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Speaker 2: in control, they're gonna come along for the ride. And

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Speaker 2: that's where you really build a fan base because you

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Speaker 2: got five thousand people out there. You know, I'll be

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Speaker 2: playing Newport Folk Festival this summer, or in Australia, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to Byron Bay Bluesfest. Probably played a seven thousand

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Speaker 2: people and a lot of whom have never seen me,

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Speaker 2: and so what you need to do? Do you know?

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Speaker 2: Do you remember Huey Lewis?

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Speaker 1: Of course I remember.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, So there was an article once in Rolling

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Speaker 2: Stone and Huey Lewis did a quote that I've never forgotten.

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Speaker 2: He talked about how he was in a blues band

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Speaker 2: in northern California and they were doing cover songs and

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Speaker 2: he said, every once in a while they would sneak

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Speaker 2: in an original song. And I loved how he said that,

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Speaker 2: and he said he called it infiltrate then double cross,

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Speaker 2: so he'd suck them in and then double cross them,

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Speaker 2: and then on the break people would come up and go,

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Speaker 2: what was that song you did? I loved and he'd say, oh,

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Speaker 2: that was an original, and they said that is so good.

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Speaker 2: So at a festival you need to infiltrate then double crossing,

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Speaker 2: not meaning you're doing covers, but go out. You can't

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Speaker 2: just go out and talk about shaving your balls in

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Speaker 2: the shower. You've got to lure them into your world.

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Speaker 2: And then slowly, once they commit to loving you, they're

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Speaker 2: with you. They're a part of your tribe. It's amazing.

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Speaker 2: And then you slowly collect people. My buddy Oliver Wood

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Speaker 2: from the Wood Brothers has a quote that he told

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Speaker 2: me about my career. It's a slow rise to the middle,

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Speaker 2: and that's the best kind of career to have.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's just use that. You're playing to seven thousand people.

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Speaker 1: Usually an act that's not well known throughout the world

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Speaker 1: has to play during the day when the sun is out.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel that you have to get all seven

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Speaker 1: thousand people interested or you just need three hundred in

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Speaker 1: front of the state, What do you say. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get this three hundred and grow it and grow it.

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Speaker 2: I know that it's going to be successful. It sounds weird,

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Speaker 2: but I love walking out on stage and there's five

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Speaker 2: or seven thousand people and it's just a little cadence

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Speaker 2: and the voice are the way I may tell a story, slowly,

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Speaker 2: suck them into my world. And you see people kind

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Speaker 2: of touching each other, like what's going on here? And

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Speaker 2: then the diehard fans are up front and the energy

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Speaker 2: passes from fan to fan. It's crazy. And by the

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Speaker 2: end of that everybody's over there at the merch area.

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Speaker 2: You're selling stuff and I shake everybody's hand. I believe

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Speaker 2: in the Willie Nelson School of music, you'd always wait

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Speaker 2: by his tour bus afterwards and shake everyone's hand and

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Speaker 2: sign everything. I love it. I love the interaction taking

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Speaker 2: pictures with people and then playing the show, and slowly

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Speaker 2: they convert over. And then you play a club in

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Speaker 2: a town and they show up and say, oh, oh, man,

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Speaker 2: I saw you at High Sierra Music Festival, or I

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Speaker 2: saw you at tell your Ride Bluegrass Fest. And the

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Speaker 2: cool thing is I'm just solo on stage, so I

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Speaker 2: don't have to deal with a lot of logistics of

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Speaker 2: band members and everything. I can surgically strike and play

353
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Speaker 2: Stan Rogers folk Fest way out in Canso, Nova Scotia,

354
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Speaker 2: and then zip across the country and play Rocky Mountain

355
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Speaker 2: Folksfest in Lions, Colorado. And I can do it and

356
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Speaker 2: get there pretty fast.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back to the Oliver Wood quote. I

358
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Speaker 1: think the Woods started off independent to begin with. Okay,

359
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 1: when you started in the pre internet era, the key

360
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 1: was to have a label deal and to have a hit,

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Speaker 1: whether it be a top forty hit at MTV, hit

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Speaker 1: a hit on a FM rock The point is to

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Speaker 1: have a notable trick. So today to use a word

364
00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 1: that has too many connotations, but I'll use it anyway.

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Speaker 1: You are a cult item. It's amazing. I printed an

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Speaker 1: email that you had written all these people who know

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Speaker 1: who you are. Okay, you can't see that and say, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's Steve Poltz and you know, number ten in the

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Speaker 1: Spotify Top fifty, but they know who you are. So

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Speaker 1: the game has changed. Yet you have continued in the game.

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Speaker 1: To what degreed does it frustrate you that you have

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Speaker 1: this middle level of success and to what degreed do

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Speaker 1: you have hunger to be known and exposed to more people.

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Speaker 2: This is a great question, and I would like to

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Speaker 2: first say I love you. I want to get that

376
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Speaker 2: from here, but okay, okay, I do. And the way

377
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,879
Speaker 2: that it works for me is I picture everybody, you know,

378
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 2: those rock climbing walls, Bob, where you got sure a

379
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 2: place and climb up. You know, there's always somebody going

380
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,679
Speaker 2: to be above you and somebody below you. That's the

381
00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 2: business we're in. There's always going to be somebody who

382
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Speaker 2: has something you want. Even Springsteen, where he's at on

383
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Speaker 2: the wall now isn't in the stadium thing he was

384
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Speaker 2: at at one time. So we always want to be

385
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Speaker 2: somewhere else. So number one, the first rule is be

386
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Speaker 2: kind to everybody you meet on the way up, because

387
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Speaker 2: sooner or later you will meet him on the way

388
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Speaker 2: back down, and you're always going to want more, but

389
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Speaker 2: you've got to just remain grateful and thankful for what

390
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Speaker 2: you have, your little slice of the pie. And for me,

391
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Speaker 2: I'm happy with the slice I have because I get

392
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Speaker 2: to do the weirdest shit on stage. Bob, I'm not

393
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Speaker 2: beholden to a hit song. I go out and I'm

394
00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,080
Speaker 2: doing spoken word and it's a drug to me. I'm

395
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Speaker 2: an addict, and so I'm addicted to the performance and

396
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 2: I'm looking for that high, that sort of danger on

397
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 2: stage and also the sense of community. And so I

398
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,800
Speaker 2: have like the ultimate career because I go from city

399
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Speaker 2: to city. People show up in Australia and it's like whatever,

400
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: a fifty dollars ticket and they're showing up. The shows

401
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 2: are selling out and they're in small areas. Of course,

402
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: you think, God, it would be cool to go up

403
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: to bigger theaters, but it's just one day at a time,

404
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: and I get such a high from the shows that

405
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,120
Speaker 2: I'm happy where I'm at and if it grows I'm

406
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: playing on the house's money because I don't have to

407
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: do this anymore. I could retire right now. My wife

408
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 2: always reminds me of that, that you don't have to

409
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:40,679
Speaker 2: do this anymore. I was one of those musicians that

410
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 2: put money away back in the day when some jewel

411
00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: money came in and other money, and I'd just go

412
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Speaker 2: out and work and I just put it in a

413
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Speaker 2: Charles Schwab account and never touch it. I've never touched it.

414
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 2: I'm sixty four years old, and I don't need a

415
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Speaker 2: lot because I live kind of a simple life.

416
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Speaker 1: Okay. I mean, certainly your stage act is unique and

417
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: no one is going to see you and not remember it.

418
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Speaker 1: So is there a part of you that says, well,

419
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Speaker 1: if only more people could see me, they would have

420
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Speaker 1: the same feeling.

421
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do think that sometimes, and every once in

422
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: a while you do get a little bit of jealousy

423
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Speaker 2: and you want the career, maybe you want the crowds

424
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Speaker 2: that somebody else is getting. But I've learned to just

425
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: get that out of my system and I just sort

426
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: of say a prayer of gratitude for what I have,

427
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 2: and I truly believe in that. Of course, you me Nactually,

428
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 2: I only speak for myself. Like when Jewels started getting

429
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 2: big and we were dating and I was in the

430
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Speaker 2: Rugburns and I was helping her find a place to play,

431
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Speaker 2: and then she blew up really big. I was just like, Wow,

432
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Speaker 2: why is she blowing up big? And I'm not or

433
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Speaker 2: Jason Moraz another friend of mine from San Diego, Like

434
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,960
Speaker 2: there's a whole San Diego scene, why did these people

435
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: blow up so big? But then when I really analyzed

436
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 2: it and did a deep dive in it, I'm not

437
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:20,680
Speaker 2: really made for the masses. I'm not. Jason Ras has

438
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: a great boys, Jewela has a great voice. I'm sort

439
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,480
Speaker 2: of a wild card, and I get the freedom of

440
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: doing the show I want, and I have gratitude for

441
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 2: what I'm doing. And Jason's a friend of mine, Jewele's

442
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: a friend of mine. And I saw Blink one eight

443
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: two blow up big, but the Rugburns didn't, And why

444
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 2: didn't that happen? I just felt like we weren't made

445
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 2: for the masses. Probably, and that's okay. You got to

446
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,640
Speaker 2: make peace with that way.

447
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:52,800
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning. You're born in Halifax, Canada.

448
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: Are you just born there? And you move on or

449
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: do you live any of your life there.

450
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 2: We moved when I was really young to southern California.

451
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,880
Speaker 2: So all the relatives are in Nova Scotia and Cape

452
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,360
Speaker 2: Breton and some in Ontario. But I'm a total Southern Californian.

453
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: I may live in Nashville, but I'm a Southern Californian.

454
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 1: As it gets, okay, And what did your parents do

455
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: for a living?

456
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 2: So my dad was in the Royal Canadian Air Force

457
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 2: and one morning he woke up and we were snowed

458
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 2: in and he said, I want to go somewhere warm.

459
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 2: And it was the early sixties, and we came out

460
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 2: to Pasadena, California. We lived right in Pasadena, and my

461
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,719
Speaker 2: dad had a job in air conditioning and he just

462
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 2: found this job. He drove us across the country with

463
00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 2: no money, got a job in an air conditioning warehouse

464
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 2: and became a manager of it. And I went to

465
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 2: a private Catholic school called Saint Rita's Elementary School. We

466
00:25:55,760 --> 00:26:00,239
Speaker 2: lived in Hastings Ranch for a little while, and then

467
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 2: we moved out to Palm Springs, California, because he got

468
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: a great air conditioning job out there, and that was

469
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: how I ended up meeting like Frank Sinatra and Elvis

470
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 2: Presley and Liberacchi and Bob Hope and all these people

471
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 2: that lived there, and it was pretty interesting being a

472
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 2: part of that. So it was great.

473
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: Tell me more about being a part of that. This

474
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: Palm Springs.

475
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: So in Palm Springs, when we would go trigger treating

476
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: and stuff, we would go to Liberacchi's house and everybody

477
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 2: knew where he lived, and he had these piano keys

478
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: for his front steps and they would wind almost in

479
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 2: an Alison Carroll kind of weird psychedelic way, and you'd

480
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: ring the doorbell and you'd be dressed up like Casper

481
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: the Friendly Ghost, and the doorbell when it rang would go.

482
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 3: Dun dunt dunt dun dun't dunt dun dun Livereracchi would

483
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 3: come out and he'd have a big boa around his neck,

484
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 3: and then chauffeur guy, his boyfriend, the blonde guy, he'd

485
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 3: have arm next.

486
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: To him like this and he'd say hello kids, hop

487
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,439
Speaker 2: a Snicker's bar and he'd give these huge Snickers bars

488
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 2: out and then I'd go change in the Batman and

489
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 2: come back again. And we would keep changing our outfits

490
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 2: because he had the biggest candy bars, and it was

491
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 2: so cool and I always loved being a part of that.

492
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 2: And my uncle was gay, my mom's brother, and so

493
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 2: I was raised with this sense of gayness in our house,

494
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 2: which was like a different time. Nowadays, everybody's flying a

495
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: rainbow flag and stuff, but back in those days, it

496
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 2: was like some more broke back Mountain type stuff, especially

497
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,439
Speaker 2: for my uncle who had come from Cape Bretton and

498
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 2: he was a musician.

499
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: So okay, And what did your mother do all day?

500
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 2: So my mom was a teacher, an English teacher, and

501
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 2: she demanded she wouldn't even accept an A minus. I

502
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 2: had to get straight a's. And I would always get

503
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 2: bad citizenship grades because I was always making smart at

504
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 2: I just couldn't help it, and I was pushing things

505
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:05,200
Speaker 2: to the limit. But I got a's and I loved school,

506
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 2: like I loved going there, and I liked studying guitar,

507
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 2: and I started playing guitar when I was six years old,

508
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 2: And so my mom really made sure I practiced. She

509
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 2: was very strict about it. She said, if I pay

510
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: for lessons, you're practicing forty five minutes every day, no excuses,

511
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: Not thirty minutes, not forty two minutes forty five minutes,

512
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,680
Speaker 2: and I realized how hard it was to learn guitar,

513
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: and I hated it. But after twenty one days it

514
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: became a habit, just like anything, and then I just

515
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: would get so into it. My guitar was my best

516
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: friend because I stuttered as a little kid, and I

517
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 2: had asthma and exema, and so I would just be

518
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: alone in my room playing guitar, and I loved it.

519
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 1: So how many kids in the family just.

520
00:28:55,560 --> 00:29:00,239
Speaker 2: Too my sister. I have an older sister, and you

521
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 2: know how, I think you've written about this too in

522
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,560
Speaker 2: your letter. A lot of times somebody has an older

523
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,120
Speaker 2: sibling and that older sibling is the one who turns

524
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 2: the other one onto music. And my sister had exquisite

525
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 2: taste in music, and she would make me put my

526
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: head between the speakers and she would put on Joni

527
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 2: Mitchell Courton Spark and say, listen to it, really listen

528
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 2: to it with your head between the speakers, and you

529
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 2: would hear Joni. All of a sudden, love came to

530
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: my door with a sleeping role and a madman's soul.

531
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: I thought for sure I'd seen him dancing up a

532
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 2: river in the dark looking through a woman to the

533
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: core and spa and I would listen to that, my

534
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: mind would be blown. We had a Moranz receiver, these

535
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,760
Speaker 2: big speakers, and my sister would have me. Then she

536
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: would put on another record and we would listen to music,

537
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 2: and really listen to music. I'm talking like where you

538
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 2: would drink it in. And I remember I went to school, Bob,

539
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 2: and there was a Jewish girl named Hallie Rothstein, and

540
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 2: she was so beautiful and they had been living on

541
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 2: a kabbutz in Israel, and her dad, Jean Rothstein, was

542
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 2: the chemistry teacher, and he was so cool, and he

543
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: also did the hiking club and he went out of

544
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: town on business and Hallie Rothstein asked me to come over.

545
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 2: And I was fifteen years old and she had me

546
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 2: come over. I know, I couldn't believe it, and I thought,

547
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 2: this is when I'm going to lose my virginity. And

548
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 2: I always loved the I just my mom was like,

549
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 2: you're Catholic. You got the only dated Catholic girl. And

550
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 2: so when I heard Hallie Rothstein was Jewish, it was

551
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: like that forbidden fruit. It even made me like her more.

552
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 2: And they would talk about you know, how they would

553
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: celebrate Hanukkah, and I found it all so interesting. And

554
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: my gay uncle Louie would dress me up and I

555
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: would sing Fiddler on the Roof songs to all his

556
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: gay boyfriends. And so I always had this love of

557
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,560
Speaker 2: the Jewish faith because it was so different to me.

558
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: So my uncle Louie would dress me up and I'd

559
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: sing if Iridi go dumb, and he'd have his arms

560
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:21,239
Speaker 2: around a couple guys, and I thought that's how all

561
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 2: kids grew up. But I went over to Halle Rothstein's house,

562
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: and I remember she wanted me to bring some boons

563
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 2: farm wine over, and I was only fifteen years old.

564
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: So I went to the liquor store, and everybody knew

565
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 2: there was this old perverted guy that would sit outside

566
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,719
Speaker 2: the liquor store and if you let him touch your

567
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 2: leg a little bit, he would go in and buy

568
00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 2: you the wine or the beer you want. So I

569
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 2: remember having this whole existential crisis. Do I let the

570
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: old man touch me so I can go to Halle

571
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 2: Rothstein's house and lose my virginity. And I rode my

572
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: bike over to her house and the old man was there.

573
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 2: He got to grab my leg and he comes out

574
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: with a bottle of Boons Farm wine and I had

575
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: it in a brown paper bag, and I was so disgusted.

576
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: After the old man grab my leg. I was riding

577
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: my bike to Ali Rothstein's and I had screwed the

578
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: cap and I was drinking the wine and chugging it.

579
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 2: And I went over to her house and I crawled

580
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: in the window of her room and then we started

581
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 2: making out. And you know, back in the early seventies,

582
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 2: you would make out with the girl and she'd have

583
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: Levi's five oh one button flies on and she would

584
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 2: let me on dudes like two buttons, and I'd get

585
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: my hand ride down her pants almost to the promised Land,

586
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 2: and then she'd pull it up put it back on

587
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: her boop. We both had braces, and the braces were

588
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: clicking as we were making out, and the dried saliva smell,

589
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 2: you could smell it wafting up your nostrils and we're

590
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 2: making out. But then back in those days, you couldn't

591
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 2: just put your iPhone on Spotify shuffle and have it

592
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 2: keep playing music. No, the record would die out. So

593
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: you hear this, and she asked to get up change

594
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: the record, so she gets up to change the record

595
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 2: and she puts on this other record. Come back. I

596
00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 2: think I'm gonna lose my virginity to this beautiful Jewish girl.

597
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 2: We're making out. One thing leads to another, and I

598
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: hear this voice, this beautiful voicego moving in silent desperation,

599
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: keeping the nih on the Holy lad a hypathetical destination.

600
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: Say who is this Walking Man? And I just stopped

601
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 2: kissing her and I said who's that? She said, it's

602
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 2: James Taylor. And I just looked at the album covered

603
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 2: Walking Man. He was in this cool pose. And back

604
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: in those days, you couldn't look up if they were

605
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 2: shopping at Kroger and what they looked like, and when

606
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: they were getting their groceries. All you had was the

607
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 2: mystery of what was on that album. And you held

608
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: that big album up and you look at the back

609
00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: of You're like Danny Kortzmark Russell, kunkle Leland Sklark. Who

610
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,360
Speaker 2: are these people? These are gods. I need to know

611
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: about all these players and who they are. And I

612
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 2: looked at Hallie. I said, I'm sorry, I have to go.

613
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,239
Speaker 2: Can I borrow this record? She said, I guess so,

614
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: so I didn't lose my virginity because I wanted to

615
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 2: go home and listen to James Taylor and hear Danny

616
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 2: Korchmark Cooch. They called him Cooch. That's all I knew.

617
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: Cooch was his name. I needed to do my research

618
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,439
Speaker 2: and I needed to listen to this James Taylor guy.

619
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: Then years later, Danny Goldberg signs me to Mercury Universal Records,

620
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: and Timothy White, the now deceased editor of Billboard Magazine,

621
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: calls me up because he hears my record One Left Shoe,

622
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: and he says, Steve, I'm wondering if you were influenced

623
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 2: at all by James Taylor because of your fingerpick. I

624
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: really like this record, And I said, was I influenced

625
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: by James Taylor? And I proceeded to tell him about

626
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 2: the old man grabbing my leg embraces, clicking the drive Sliva,

627
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 2: the buttons on the Levi's five oh one, my hand,

628
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 2: going down to the promised land of Nirvana. And I said,

629
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 2: because of James, I didn't lose my virginity, and Timothy

630
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,720
Speaker 2: White goes, oh my god, I love this story. Listen.

631
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 2: I'm friends with James Taylor. He's in Martha's Vineyard. Right now,

632
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call him up, and would you tell him

633
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: that story? Well, Bob, I'm freaking out because James Taylor

634
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,439
Speaker 2: was like one of my heroes. Right. So he gets

635
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 2: James on the phone in Martha's Vineyard. Timothy White's in

636
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 2: New York Billboard Magazine office, and I'm in San Diego,

637
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 2: and it's like a split screen, triple screen Doris da

638
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: Pillow talk. We're all on our phones. Can't see him,

639
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 2: but I can imagine it. And then all of a sudden,

640
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 2: right before James gets on the phone, Timothy White says,

641
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: tell James's story, but don't tell him the part about

642
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 2: the old man grabbing you, because that's kind of he

643
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: doesn't need to hear that. But tell him the story

644
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 2: about everything else. And I said, okay, okay. And so

645
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 2: that James gets on the line and I hear that

646
00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 2: sweet tenor voice go hello, Steve, and I go James,

647
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 2: He goes yeah, Timothy goes tell them the story, and

648
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 2: then I go, I let an old.

649
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 4: Man grab my balls.

650
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: I couldn't help myself. And then I proceeded to tell

651
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,880
Speaker 2: him the whole story. And after I told James Taylor

652
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 2: the whole story. There was this awkward pause on the line,

653
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 2: and then I heard James go, well, I hope you've

654
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 2: gotten laid since.

655
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: Okay, a little cleanup. Where's Hallie today?

656
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I would like to know. I need

657
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 2: to track her down on Facebook, but I have some

658
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: friends that told me I think she might still be

659
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 2: in Palm Springs. I would love to know how she's doing.

660
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: I would love her to hear that story because it

661
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 2: really was a memory mark.

662
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: Okay, you would have this one my old sensibility. This

663
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: doesn't come out of nowhere. What was going on in

664
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: your home that you had this way of looking at things, insights,

665
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 1: telling these funny stories. Was this your mother? Was this

666
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 1: your father? Your gay uncle? Where did this come from?

667
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 2: It was a combo meal deal. My dad would write

668
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 2: poems and he would run around the house and tap

669
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 2: dance and sing. He would always sing the Canadian national

670
00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: anthem to me in the morning, so I would know

671
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,080
Speaker 2: my Canadian roots. And my mom played piano and guitar

672
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,320
Speaker 2: and would sing like an angel. And my uncle Louis

673
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 2: was a genius piano player, and so I was a

674
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 2: combination of all of them. And my uncle would always

675
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 2: have me play at recitals, and I would do the

676
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: part of Joel Gray and Cabaret. At a very young age.

677
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,520
Speaker 2: I could do everything I could get up there, and

678
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: he would paint a little mustache on me and I'd

679
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: go become Bear, come and I would do the whole

680
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: thing and gabba lay, oh, gaballet do gabal lele, and

681
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,719
Speaker 2: he would dress me up as Oliver, and I didn't

682
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 2: know how weird it was, because he'd have like eight

683
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,439
Speaker 2: gay men over to the house and he would dress

684
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: me up like Oliver and make me go, please, suh,

685
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: may I have some more? And then they'd go, he

686
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 2: wants more. And then I'd have to think, oh, well,

687
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 2: buye this wonderful morning, and I'd put on a whole

688
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: show for them and I'd see how it worked. And

689
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,560
Speaker 2: that was where I really started learning stuff because of

690
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 2: all of them. And he took me to see Julian

691
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 2: Bream at the Hollywood Bowl at the age of six

692
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: years old, Ella Fitzgerald, Carmen McCrae, Sarah Vaughan, Jesus Christ, Superstar,

693
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: god Spell, Hair. He took me to every Planet of

694
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 2: the Apes movie. My uncle Louis was just he was

695
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 2: so good for me.

696
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: Okay, that's your musical background. How about your twisted sense

697
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 1: of humor and your observational character.

698
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 2: So I started the rugburns in a garage and Sandy.

699
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,040
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, no, way before.

700
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 2: That, way before that was okay?

701
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: Was it the type of thing you were all having

702
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 1: dinner together and people were telling long stories where you

703
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:20,600
Speaker 1: were cracking jokes at the table. This sensibility has to

704
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: come from somewhere.

705
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: I think it was because my mom was really strict,

706
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: so I liked finding a way to get my sister

707
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 2: to laugh. Because my sister had a bit of depression

708
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: and my mom suffered from depression. So my mom had

709
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: to get shock therapy and the house was always really dark,

710
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 2: and I remember she came out of shock therapy and

711
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: she didn't know who we were, and it scared me,

712
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: and she would I would come home and she would

713
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 2: always be crying and the house would be dark. So

714
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: I would play classical guitar songs to her and I

715
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 2: would try to make her laugh. I really wanted to

716
00:39:59,760 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 2: make my mom happy because it hurt me to see

717
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 2: her so sad, and my sister was really sad. So

718
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,560
Speaker 2: I would figure out what made them laugh. So if

719
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: I was able to do the Lord's Prayer with a

720
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 2: French accent without my mom hearing it at church to

721
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: get my sister to laugh, I would.

722
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 5: I would.

723
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,439
Speaker 2: That's where things started. I would if false it would

724
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: be that name, SOI Kingdom come and Kathy would be

725
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 2: laughing so hard and my mom would get mad, and

726
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,360
Speaker 2: then I'd find out a way to get my mom

727
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 2: to laugh. But honestly, I really believe I'm I think

728
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 2: you know, my mom died a few years ago and

729
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 2: the first thing I said was do you think she

730
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 2: loved me? And I think she did. But I used

731
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 2: to feel like the audience is kind of like my mom,

732
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 2: and maybe I'm on this search to win over the

733
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,319
Speaker 2: audience to get her a rooval, And so I think

734
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: that's where it all started. Was I wanted to make

735
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,160
Speaker 2: sure that I could try to make her happy because

736
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to make sure she loved me. And I

737
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: haven't done deep therapy at all on it, but I

738
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 2: sort of have a sense that the audience is like

739
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:19,479
Speaker 2: my mother.

740
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,240
Speaker 1: Okay, before you get to the Rugbirds, you're going to school,

741
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: You're a smart kid, You're sort of sassy, which is

742
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: frustrating because you're doing well, but the teachers don't like

743
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: the disturbance. Did you have a lot of friends, Did

744
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 1: you play sports? Were you in student government or were

745
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,320
Speaker 1: you off to the left somewhere.

746
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: So I was into student government and I loved sports.

747
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: I ran across country. I was on the wrestling team,

748
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 2: and I was in drama, so I did all the drama.

749
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 2: I did everything. Wrestling practices would go late. The only

750
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: reason I was on the wrestling nam is because I

751
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,879
Speaker 2: didn't make the basketball team and the wrestling coach saw

752
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 2: me crying when I saw my name wasn't on the list,

753
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 2: and he said he needed a ninety eight pounder and

754
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 2: I weighed about ninety two pounds in ninth grade. So

755
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 2: I got on the wrestling team. And I wrestled for

756
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,120
Speaker 2: four years ninth, tenth, eleventh, and twelfth grade. And I

757
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 2: got really good at it and it really helped me

758
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 2: because I didn't quit. But I was the only guy

759
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 2: on the wrestling team that was also in drama. And

760
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 2: I was in the Madrigals, which was the top singing

761
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 2: group where we would go to other schools and compete

762
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: sing songs in Latin and French and German, and so

763
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:51,480
Speaker 2: I was constantly busy in school, constantly, and I think

764
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 2: part of that too was I didn't want to go home.

765
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: Because I went home, I felt a sense of darkness

766
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 2: and I didn't want to see my mom sad.

767
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: Okay graduate from high school?

768
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 2: Then what So I graduated from high school and I

769
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: went away. My sister had gone away to up with people.

770
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 2: Do you remember Up with People?

771
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: Absolutely used to be the halftime show with the NFL.

772
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, So my sister she went away to up

773
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 2: with people and I was playing.

774
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: Oh, well, well that just doesn't happen by accident. How

775
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: did she get up with people?

776
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 4: So?

777
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 2: Up with People came to Palm Springs High School, which

778
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 2: is where I graduated from, and she applied and got in.

779
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,360
Speaker 2: So she left me her Dodge Demon three on a

780
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: tree and on the back was a bumper sticker that

781
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: said give Jesus a chance. She got me stoned before

782
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 2: she left, taught me out to smoke beeed, and so

783
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 2: she she leans to go to up with people, and

784
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 2: then Up with People came back to our high school

785
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: and I went, man, I got to get out of here.

786
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: If I could go away with up with people, that

787
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 2: would be the greatest thing in the world. So they

788
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 2: came into our high school and played I've Never Forgotten

789
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: the shows in a big assembly hall a theater in

790
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 2: our Palm Springs High and I went up and I said,

791
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 2: can I apply for Up With People? And all my

792
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 2: friends were like, the stupid man, don't do that, like

793
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,279
Speaker 2: all their wrestling friends. They're so lame. So I auditioned

794
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 2: for them, and I've Never Forgotten. I played a song

795
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 2: called Romanza, this Andre Segovia piece that's really sad. It's

796
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: a beautiful piece, Romanza, and I played it and they went, man,

797
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 2: you're a really gig guitar player. And then they ended

798
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 2: up giving me a scholarship Up with People. So I

799
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:43,839
Speaker 2: got accepted and I went and I lived in Tucson.

800
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 2: And this is back in nineteen seventy eight. Like most

801
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 2: people have like that started band, like the Rugburns have

802
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 2: like punk credibility. You know, they're listening to television and

803
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 2: CBGB's what's happening. Not me. I was in Eliza Minelly

804
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,680
Speaker 2: Barber streisand and Up with p People, Joel Gray and

805
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: classical guitar and so Up with People. I go over

806
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 2: there and I auditioned, and I live in Tucson and

807
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,760
Speaker 2: I get in casts I think I was in cast

808
00:45:11,880 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: A and we were in the Latin American group. So

809
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 2: we went and lived in Mexico and we would sing

810
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 2: instead of up with people, because the song up with

811
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 2: people goes up up with people you meet and wherever

812
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 2: you go. But ours was biev lahente, and so we

813
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: would live with Mexican families and that's where I learned Spanish.

814
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,799
Speaker 2: And then we went to Argentina and imagine I was

815
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: eighteen years old and I was in the band of

816
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 2: up with people playing guitar and we had like a

817
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 2: full orchestra, French horns, timpany, drums, everything, and that was

818
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:49,240
Speaker 2: where I learned about soundcheck, loading and staying with people

819
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 2: in their houses. We'd have to write them a thank

820
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 2: you note afterwards. And we'd stay with all these different people,

821
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 2: and we traveled around the world and I got out

822
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: of up with people, and then I went away to

823
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 2: college University of San Diego, Catholic University, which made my

824
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,279
Speaker 2: mom happy because it was Catholic, and I graduated from

825
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 2: there and that was where I started well a little

826
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 2: bit slower, okay.

827
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 1: So everybody Up with People has a tom No one

828
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:16,479
Speaker 1: continues to stay in.

829
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: The act that no one what.

830
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: Okay, let's say I join up with People. Do I

831
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 1: know going in that I have a two year tenure

832
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 1: and then I'm done? Oh can you be in for

833
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: ten years?

834
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a one year tenure. So you go in

835
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 2: and it's like going through boot camp. You learn all

836
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 2: these songs. My fingers that blisters on them. They got

837
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 2: me an ovation guitar around back guitar Glenn Campbell Artists

838
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 2: signed by Glenn Campbell, and I had that Ovation acoustic guitar.

839
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 2: So I go in for a whole year, and Bob,

840
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,479
Speaker 2: it's so goofy to say, I think I'm the only

841
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 2: person in the world who has co written a song

842
00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 2: with Billy String's Jewel Mojo Nixon and wasn't up with

843
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 2: People and played CBGB's and got to open for the Ramones,

844
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 2: Like it just doesn't make sense.

845
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, but just staying with up with People for

846
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: one second. Up with People didn't have a religious element.

847
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:15,360
Speaker 2: Did it.

848
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: No?

849
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,839
Speaker 2: It was about kind of building bridges. It was non denomination,

850
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 2: right right, right.

851
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: But the things that are clean and cut have a

852
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:29,240
Speaker 1: reputation under the surface of being the wildest, the most sex,

853
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 1: the most drugs, the mold booze. What was it like

854
00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: being in up with people?

855
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: Oh my god. So there were all kinds of cast relationships,

856
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 2: like you're told you can't date somebody in it. That's

857
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:43,959
Speaker 2: kind of the reason I wrote the song hand Job

858
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 2: on a Church Bus, Like I have a song called

859
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: hand Job on a Church bus. Like there was stuff

860
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 2: going on. There was gay stuff going on and cast

861
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 2: relationships happening. I remember I had a cast girlfriend and

862
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 2: a girl named Kathy McCarty, and we would have to

863
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: find places to meet up, to sneak out of our

864
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 2: host families or go in because you always stayed with families.

865
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 2: So I would find out where she lived, and we

866
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 2: didn't have Google maps. It was nineteen seventy eight. I'd

867
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: have a street map in Mexico, and I'd at midnight

868
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:17,960
Speaker 2: climb out of the window of my place, find out

869
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 2: what Kathy McCarty was, sneak into the room where she

870
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: had a cast mate with her in another bed who

871
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 2: was asleep, and have the most silent sex that was

872
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 2: so forbidden, and the forbidden sex is the best, and

873
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 2: then climb back in the window of somebody's house in Mexico,

874
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 2: wake up in the morning and act like I've been

875
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,920
Speaker 2: in sleep, and then surreptitiously walk by her on the

876
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:43,919
Speaker 2: bus the next day and kind of wink and we'd

877
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 2: be laughing at what we pulled off. Yeah, it was crazy.

878
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 2: There was a lot of sex happening.

879
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: What about the University of San Diego? What was your

880
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:54,479
Speaker 1: experience there?

881
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: Now that was really cool because what I did was

882
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: I went to gross I'mont College first and I took

883
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,480
Speaker 2: classical guitar because they had a classical guitar.

884
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 1: Oh wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait, not everybody knows that.

885
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit more about that.

886
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 2: Okay. So in San Diego there's a bunch of different

887
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 2: colleges and they have junior colleges, that's what they're called.

888
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 2: So a junior college I went to because Grossmont College

889
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: was in La Mesa, and they had a classical guitar

890
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 2: department run by a guy named Miles Moignier. So Miles

891
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 2: was a great classical guitar teacher, and I was in

892
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 2: love with the classical guitar. I was learning box forat

893
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 2: I was doing duet pieces with Miles, so he was playing.

894
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 2: It was nineteen seventy nine at a place in La

895
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 2: Mesa called Porfivore, a Mexican restaurant, and then another restaurant

896
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 2: in Eltahonne, California, and that was called Ela Migo Ballroom.

897
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 2: So Miles went, hey, you're pretty good. I can't always

898
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 2: play well. You sub for me at the gigs. So

899
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 2: here I am nineteen years old playing at elam Ego

900
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: Ballroom and at poor Footbore, playing like four nights a week,

901
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 2: classical guitar, four hours a night, five hours a night.

902
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,279
Speaker 2: I'd get a break in the middle. They'd feed me

903
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 2: when I got in and feed me again when I left.

904
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 2: I was a growing kid. I'd did two Mexican meals.

905
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,399
Speaker 2: I had it made Bob. I was getting twenty five

906
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: bucks a night sitting in the corner playing classical guitar pieces.

907
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 2: And then one night I sang a song, and I

908
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 2: sang the song Time in a Bottle by Jim Crochy,

909
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 2: and we were only supposed to play, but I sang

910
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: Time in a Bottle and one of the waitresses was

911
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 2: named Brenda. I'll never forget. She was like forty five

912
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:45,400
Speaker 2: years old. She came up to me and she goes, hey,

913
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 2: you can sing. I didn't know you could sing. You

914
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 2: sounded really good. Come outside, you want to smoke a

915
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 2: joint with me? And it was like Steve Martin and

916
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 2: the Jerk. And I went all right. And she was

917
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 2: this tough biker chick. So I smoked a joint with her.

918
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 2: And then she said, my old out of town at

919
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: a biker rally in Sturgis. He's got choppers out there.

920
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: He's shown him with all his biker friends. Why don't

921
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 2: you come over the house with smoke some more weed

922
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,839
Speaker 2: and drink some beer. So I went over to her

923
00:51:11,880 --> 00:51:14,880
Speaker 2: house and it was in this area of Elkoholm that

924
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 2: was kind of scary. And she brings me into her house.

925
00:51:18,280 --> 00:51:21,239
Speaker 2: One thing leads to another. We end up in their waterbed.

926
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 2: We're having sex. I'm nineteen years old. Also, I hear

927
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 2: this Harley pull up in the driveway. She goes, you

928
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: gotta get out of here. You gotta get out of

929
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 2: the window right now. That's my old man. He'll kill you.

930
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,360
Speaker 2: And I said, I thought you said he was in Sturges.

931
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,399
Speaker 2: She said, he doesn't trust me. I think he came back.

932
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 2: He will kill you. And I remember leaving out of

933
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 2: that window, and one of my shoes was left there.

934
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 2: It was my left shoe, and I ran out and

935
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,680
Speaker 2: I never showed up again at that place. I just

936
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 2: quit playing classical guitar in that one restaurant because that

937
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 2: guy was going to be looking for me. And to

938
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 2: this day, So I was in nineteen seventy nine and

939
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,640
Speaker 2: she was four five years old. I was nineteen. I

940
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: don't know how old she'd be today, but I'm still scared.

941
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,560
Speaker 2: When I see a biker come up, I imagine him

942
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: coming up with like a voicebox thing in his throat.

943
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to kill you. I'm ninety.

944
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: Okay, how do you segue from community college to University

945
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:22,760
Speaker 1: of San Diego?

946
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,160
Speaker 2: So I went to UH Crossmont College. Then I went

947
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:30,840
Speaker 2: to San Diego State for a year, and I'll never forget.

948
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: I was there the day John Lennon died. And at

949
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 2: San Diego State they had these music rooms, and in

950
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 2: those music rooms, you would show them your student card

951
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: and they would have Vinyl records and you could go

952
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 2: all alone in a music room and they'd have headphones

953
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,200
Speaker 2: and it was amazing. Bob and I'd pull a record

954
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:55,640
Speaker 2: out and I go ros Daman vibrations, re reggae music

955
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 2: that sounds interesting, and I put it on and all said,

956
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 2: I to hear Bob Mark like I'd never heard that.

957
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 2: It was like this whole foreign feat and I got

958
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: to listen to as many records as I want. So

959
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,239
Speaker 2: I finished that year out there, and then I was

960
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: driving around San Diego and I saw University of San Diego,

961
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 2: Catholic University, and it all goes back to my mom.

962
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to please her. I thought my mom would

963
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,720
Speaker 2: like it if I went to USD. It's a Catholic school.

964
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 2: So I applied, got in, and I remember what got

965
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: me in was that when you were in up with people,

966
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: you're the kind of guy we want.

967
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: So I.

968
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 2: Know, I know, I know, it's just so wrong. And

969
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 2: so I got into the University of San Diego and

970
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 2: I played in the folk mass in church, and that's

971
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,440
Speaker 2: where the rugburns started because I knew all the folk

972
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,520
Speaker 2: songs because I was in a church choir my whole

973
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,479
Speaker 2: life in the Catholic Church. I would sing all those

974
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 2: songs and so I knew them all. Like the Lamb

975
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 2: of God, Lamb of God, you take away the sins

976
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,240
Speaker 2: of the world have mercy on us. Lamb of God,

977
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 2: you take away the sins of the world, grand us piece.

978
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 2: But I rewrote that as a punk rock song and

979
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 2: I had to go, Lamb of God, you take away

980
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,320
Speaker 2: the sins of the world every day, give them back.

981
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 2: We want them back. Well, you think it's so cool,

982
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,560
Speaker 2: you can take them away any time you want. We

983
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: got nothing to say, so we rewrote that. And that's

984
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,439
Speaker 2: where the rugburn started. Was at USD and the guy

985
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 2: I started with was a guy named Rob Driscoll, and

986
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 2: we did classical guitar duets together, and now the Rugburns

987
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: started as classical guitar duets like box Beret and we

988
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 2: would play outside at Balboa Park for passing change. And

989
00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 2: then our first gig was at Oh Hungary's where they

990
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 2: had yard long piers and I got really drunk and

991
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 2: broke a yard long pier and rather than pay us,

992
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 2: we had to pay them fifty bucks for the broken

993
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:56,720
Speaker 2: glass that we did. And that was how we got started.

994
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: Okay, that's what while you're still going to school, or

995
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: really does your career start after you finish school?

996
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:10,360
Speaker 2: So it started in school. Now I studied political science

997
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:13,799
Speaker 2: with a minor in Spanish, so sometimes I like to

998
00:55:13,800 --> 00:55:15,719
Speaker 2: say I knew I wouldn't have a job, but at

999
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:20,200
Speaker 2: least i'd know why. And so there I was. And

1000
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 2: I would bring home professors to Palm Springs, all the

1001
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:28,000
Speaker 2: way from San Diego for Thanksgiving dinner. I would invite them,

1002
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 2: and one of them was a Nixon apologist right wing

1003
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 2: professor named doctor Starter, real right wing, and the other

1004
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 2: was a San Denista loving socialist named doctor gil Otto.

1005
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 2: And doctor Stoddard and doctor Otter Auto would come to

1006
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 2: Palm Springs. I would drive them, my professors from University Bob.

1007
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,799
Speaker 2: I drive them two and a half hours. My mom

1008
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,720
Speaker 2: would have them over and the professors would get drunk

1009
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 2: and try to hit on my sister, just like Elvis

1010
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 2: Presley tried to hit on my sister when he Elvis

1011
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 2: had me on his shoulders my sister, but these professors

1012
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:04,719
Speaker 2: were hitting on my sister. And I would ask them

1013
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 2: political questions to try to get them into an argument.

1014
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,960
Speaker 2: It was like I was. It was almost like I

1015
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,760
Speaker 2: was Chris Matthews or somebody. I would ask me questions,

1016
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: what do you think about this? And I'd get them

1017
00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:17,879
Speaker 2: going at each other. They'd be screaming at each other.

1018
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 2: It was really fun. We'd have the best political discussions.

1019
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,759
Speaker 2: He had a book written on Nixon Ping pong diplomacy,

1020
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:27,560
Speaker 2: and gil Otto would talk all about the Sandinistas and

1021
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: what was going on in Central America. And I found

1022
00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,600
Speaker 2: both sides really riveting and fascinating. And I've always been

1023
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 2: a political animal because of that.

1024
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: Okay, you graduate from college, do you ever think about

1025
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: getting a street job.

1026
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,479
Speaker 2: Yes, So I got out of college, and the day

1027
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:48,600
Speaker 2: I got out of college, they had, you know how,

1028
00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 2: they would have job boards where they put all the jobs.

1029
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 2: USD had that, and I was on the Speakers committee

1030
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 2: at USD, so we would bring in speakers. You remember

1031
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,799
Speaker 2: John Anderson ran for president. He was the guy that

1032
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 2: was kind of into no taxes. We got to bring

1033
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 2: John Anderson in to talk. And then one day a

1034
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: senator came in, and I was on the speakers committee.

1035
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 2: I got to have dinner with him. And it was

1036
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 2: a senator named Joe Biden. And so Joe Biden came in,

1037
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 2: I have dinner with him, and it was at that

1038
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 2: moment I went, oh, my god, this guy is going

1039
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 2: to be president. Of course, this is back in nineteen

1040
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 2: eighty three or eighty four. And I remember he looked

1041
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 2: like Charles Groden, and I always loved Charles Groden and

1042
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 2: the stuff he did with Goldie Hahn and Joe Biden

1043
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: was just so charming and so fun to have dinner with.

1044
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 2: And I went, I would quit everything and go work

1045
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: on this guy's career. Little did I know he would

1046
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: be president so many years later when he was old.

1047
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 2: But back in the day, that guy was sharp and

1048
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 2: he was so charming, and it was really neat to

1049
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 2: say that I had dinner with Joe Biden. Got out

1050
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 2: of USD. I graduated, had really good grades, and I

1051
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: applied for a job at a plastics factory because my

1052
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 2: parents used to always go to me plastics, plastics, just

1053
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 2: like in the graduate and so I thought my mom

1054
00:58:19,520 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: would be happy if I got this job. Honestly, Bob,

1055
00:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 2: the theme I'm finding out you're like a great shrink.

1056
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 2: You asked really good questions, and I'm going to reiterate

1057
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:31,080
Speaker 2: this long time. I love you like I always have.

1058
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: I love your letter. I love what you write, and

1059
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 2: you've taught me a lot of just being yourself. That's

1060
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,560
Speaker 2: all you can be. I'm apologetically you. And so the

1061
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 2: theme of this is I wanted to please my mom

1062
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 2: and get a real job, even though I wanted to

1063
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 2: just play music. So the night before the interview for

1064
00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:52,920
Speaker 2: my job, there was this girl that lived at the

1065
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 2: beach right by me named Kiara Talini, beautiful Italian girl,

1066
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,240
Speaker 2: and she was in her room and I was walking

1067
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:03,000
Speaker 2: down by the beach and she was with Elizabeth, her roommate,

1068
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 2: and she said, hey, Steve, I've you ever eating magic mushrooms?

1069
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 2: And I said no, but I want to. So she said,

1070
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 2: we just got some and I said, well, I got

1071
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:15,680
Speaker 2: an interview at eight am. I had a plastics factory.

1072
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: And she said, oh, they'll be worn off by them.

1073
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 2: So it was midnight and I ate these magic mushrooms.

1074
00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:26,120
Speaker 2: It didn't kick in. It had been an hour. It

1075
00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:27,800
Speaker 2: was one in the morning, so I said, give me more.

1076
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 2: They gave me more, and it kicked in at about

1077
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 2: two am. And when it kicked in, I was out

1078
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:38,400
Speaker 2: with my fucking mind. I took a can of spray

1079
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 2: paint out and started spray painting the wall of my house.

1080
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 2: I had Elizabeth and Kiara with me. I said, let's

1081
00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 2: all three of us get in the bathtub and get

1082
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 2: a dozen eggs, and we took off our clothes, were

1083
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 2: in our underwear, and then they broke eggs over my head.

1084
00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,439
Speaker 2: And I remember this feeling so free and so good.

1085
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,919
Speaker 2: And next thing I knew, my roommate came in and said, dude,

1086
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 2: I got to take you to your job interview. It

1087
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 2: was seven. I had egg in my hair and I

1088
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,760
Speaker 2: bought an old suit at a thrift store. I duct

1089
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 2: taped up the pants and I went in for a

1090
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:14,000
Speaker 2: job interview. I was tripping balls on shrooms and this guy,

1091
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:17,000
Speaker 2: Tom Plane sits behind this desk and he was a

1092
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,960
Speaker 2: Wharton graduate from University of Pennsylvania, and he said, tell

1093
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,480
Speaker 2: me why I should hire you, dude, this is why

1094
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 2: mushrooms were so cool back then. It was like I

1095
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 2: became Tony Robbins or Stephen Covey the Seven Habits of

1096
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,919
Speaker 2: highly effective people. I sat down and told him why

1097
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 2: he needed to hire me at his plastics factory because

1098
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: he had a product called slip Fix that could repair

1099
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,240
Speaker 2: PBC pipe. And I said, let me tell you why

1100
01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:43,040
Speaker 2: you need to hire me. I'm going to get a

1101
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 2: truck and a barbecue, and I'm going to go out

1102
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,919
Speaker 2: where the contractors go and I'm going to make them

1103
01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:50,479
Speaker 2: hot dogs, and he goes hot dogs and I said, yeah,

1104
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call it slip fis and dogs, and I

1105
01:00:53,440 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 2: will sell more than you've ever expected in your life. Dude.

1106
01:00:57,000 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: This guy's mind was blown. And then he took out

1107
01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 2: a piece of paper and he wrote seventeen point five

1108
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 2: and that was his offer for a salary for me,

1109
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 2: and he slid it across the table and I didn't

1110
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,240
Speaker 2: know what it meant. So I crossed that ou out

1111
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 2: and I wrote fourteen point two. He goes, what do

1112
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 2: you mean that's less than I'm offering you? And I

1113
01:01:18,080 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 2: didn't even break a beat and I said, why would

1114
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:24,440
Speaker 2: I want more when I could have less? And he

1115
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 2: said what do you mean? I said, I want back

1116
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 2: in deals, Tom, And I said, I know I'm going

1117
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 2: to sell a lot. I need a company car. I

1118
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 2: need a percentage of sales. And he said, I like

1119
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,680
Speaker 2: your style. He hired me right there. He said, you

1120
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 2: can take the company on a car home. In my mind,

1121
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm tripping balls on trims. Let me pick

1122
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:45,600
Speaker 2: it up on Monday. So I got the job. He

1123
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 2: gives me the job. I worked there for three years,

1124
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 2: went to sales conferences, everything I would tell people I

1125
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 2: wasn't up with people to try to get them to

1126
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 2: trust me. And after three years, I read a book

1127
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 2: called The Edge by William Somerset Mom and Mom is

1128
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 2: spelled im a Uga Champ, great author. That book changed

1129
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 2: my life because the protagonist in the story was a

1130
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 2: guy named Larry Daryl, and he wants to just go

1131
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:17,440
Speaker 2: bum around Europe, and that's what I wanted to do.

1132
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 2: I wanted to play my guitar on the streets. So

1133
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,080
Speaker 2: I went into my boss's office. I said I need

1134
01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 2: some time on He said how much time do you need?

1135
01:02:25,600 --> 01:02:27,960
Speaker 2: A week? Two weeks? I want to go to Europe

1136
01:02:28,200 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 2: and he says I said to him, I need nine

1137
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:33,680
Speaker 2: months and he looked at me like I was crazy.

1138
01:02:33,720 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 2: He said why, I said, because I want to play

1139
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,720
Speaker 2: my guitar on the streets. And he goes for passing change.

1140
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 2: I said yeah, and he said like a bum and

1141
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 2: I go yeah, like a bum And he said, you

1142
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 2: know what, I'm going to give you nine months off,

1143
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,040
Speaker 2: but you have to shake my hand and promised me

1144
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 2: you'll come back and work for me after nine months.

1145
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 2: And I said, I'm a man of my word. I

1146
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 2: will do that. He gave me. Nine months off, I

1147
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 2: went to Europe. I played guitar on the streets. I'd

1148
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 2: already been in the Rugburns, started the Rugburns, but I

1149
01:02:58,520 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 2: wanted to be a street musician. Nine months I went

1150
01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: all around Ireland. I hitchhiked, rode a bicycle, played in

1151
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,240
Speaker 2: front of the Loop in Paris. I played in Amsterdam.

1152
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 2: Then I want to see what it'd be like to

1153
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,480
Speaker 2: busk in Morocco, so I went to Africa. Busked in Morocco,

1154
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 2: went to Lisbon, Portugal, Bartholona, Spain, everywhere, ended up in England,

1155
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:23,800
Speaker 2: and then went up to Sweden Norway. Met beautiful people

1156
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,680
Speaker 2: and I would play guitar on the streets. Lived in Amsterdam.

1157
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 2: And after nine months I came back and my hair

1158
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,240
Speaker 2: was long. He made me cut it, and he hired

1159
01:03:32,320 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 2: me back, and I did it for three more years. Well.

1160
01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: I played at nights and then I said I've got

1161
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:40,919
Speaker 2: to quit now. And I'm still friends with that guy

1162
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:45,240
Speaker 2: Tom Play. I just stayed at his beachfront palace in

1163
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 2: San Diego. He has like a ten million dollar house

1164
01:03:47,880 --> 01:03:50,360
Speaker 2: right on the beach, and he's still a dear friend

1165
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,400
Speaker 2: of mine. And he laughed so hard because he comes

1166
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:54,640
Speaker 2: to my shows and sees the crazy shit I say

1167
01:03:54,680 --> 01:03:57,200
Speaker 2: on stage, and I always make him stand up and

1168
01:03:57,240 --> 01:03:59,960
Speaker 2: take a bow. Changed my life.

1169
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: Oh okay, Yeah, that whole tripping sales pitch. Did you

1170
01:04:04,880 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 1: live up to it?

1171
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 2: Oh? I was really good. It was bizarre. I don't

1172
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 2: even I could go in there and I could sell

1173
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:16,120
Speaker 2: anything to anyone because I would just become their friend

1174
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 2: and then take them out to dinner and they'd start

1175
01:04:18,640 --> 01:04:21,440
Speaker 2: getting orders coming in. So yeah, I made him a

1176
01:04:21,480 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 2: lot of money, and that's why he kept me on.

1177
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 2: But I knew my life wasn't as a nipple salesman.

1178
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,080
Speaker 2: I sold nipples, is what it was. PVC nipple is

1179
01:04:29,120 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 2: a piece of pipe that's threaded. And I said, when

1180
01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 2: I'm eighty years old and I'm on my deathbed, do

1181
01:04:36,160 --> 01:04:38,320
Speaker 2: I want to look back on my life and go, hey,

1182
01:04:38,360 --> 01:04:41,600
Speaker 2: you were a great nipple salesman. Or do I want

1183
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 2: to say you didn't whist out and you followed your

1184
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:49,080
Speaker 2: heart and you lived your dream, which was to play music,

1185
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 2: make cassettes. The rug Burns we had cassette release parties.

1186
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,760
Speaker 2: You know, would we would have this whole scene we

1187
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:59,280
Speaker 2: created because I always believed rather than play in a

1188
01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 2: bar without our has a scene like the Chasmon in

1189
01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:05,120
Speaker 2: San Diego or something. Find a bar that's your own.

1190
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 2: And that's what I told Jewel as well. Find a bar,

1191
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:13,000
Speaker 2: create your own scene, and people will come to you,

1192
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,960
Speaker 2: kind of like you. You started your lefts Its letter,

1193
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 2: you were mimiographing that shit.

1194
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 4: You.

1195
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 2: I mean, I knew of you back when I was

1196
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 2: signed by Danny Goldberg back in those days, and you

1197
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,440
Speaker 2: would have the lefts Its Letter and then you just

1198
01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 2: went digital. You've always gone with the thing, and you

1199
01:05:32,600 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 2: created your own thing. And there's nothing better than home cooking.

1200
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 2: That's why when I read a biography of Steve Jobs

1201
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,919
Speaker 2: or Elon Musk by Walter Isaacson, I relate, or Phil

1202
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 2: Knight even I relate to all those guys because they

1203
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:51,200
Speaker 2: were singular, purpose driven. It's not about how rich you are,

1204
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:53,960
Speaker 2: what you have, or if somebody has more people than

1205
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,640
Speaker 2: you and they're playing to a stadium. No, what it's

1206
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 2: about is were you in the flow? How did you

1207
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,720
Speaker 2: live your life? Were you in the flow? Did you

1208
01:06:02,840 --> 01:06:06,600
Speaker 2: find something that you had to do because I have

1209
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 2: to do this, like I have to play shows. I

1210
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: will play shows till I die.

1211
01:06:18,560 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 1: Okay, go back for three years after being in Europe,

1212
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: you quit. Tell me about quitting. Do you say, well,

1213
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:28,240
Speaker 1: I have enough money in the bank. What was the

1214
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: plan when you quit? And what actually happened?

1215
01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 2: So he gave me a forty thousand dollars payout, and

1216
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:42,320
Speaker 2: I remember I called my friend Jerry and Boseman Montanae.

1217
01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 2: I said, I just got forty thousand dollars and it

1218
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 2: was nineteen ninety two, and he said to me, You're

1219
01:06:50,040 --> 01:06:52,880
Speaker 2: never going to get that much money again. Put it

1220
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,160
Speaker 2: in the bank, don't touch it. You'll never get that again.

1221
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:02,120
Speaker 2: So I put it in the bank. Everybody in San

1222
01:07:02,120 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 2: Diego was getting record deals, right. It was at the

1223
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:08,480
Speaker 2: time when things were just starting to happen Rocket from

1224
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:16,120
Speaker 2: the Crypt, Rust, Blink Inch a Miniature. There was this

1225
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:21,160
Speaker 2: whole punk scene happening, and so the Rugburns. I became

1226
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:24,400
Speaker 2: really good friends with Mojo Nixon and the Beat Farmers.

1227
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:27,439
Speaker 2: Those guys were kind of my teachers. So I said

1228
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:31,280
Speaker 2: to myself, I gotta go out and keep playing music.

1229
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 2: So this guy who was in the Beat Farmers, his

1230
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 2: name was Buddy Blue. He's now deceased, but he was

1231
01:07:36,680 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 2: also a writer for the San Diego Reader and for

1232
01:07:39,040 --> 01:07:41,760
Speaker 2: the Union Tribune, and he was in the Beat Farmers.

1233
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:47,280
Speaker 2: Buddy Blue got me signed to Bizarre Planet Records and Bizarre.

1234
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,840
Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay, wait wait I yeah, wait, Wait a second.

1235
01:07:50,480 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 1: I knew Herb and his brother, but there were stories

1236
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:58,240
Speaker 1: onto themselves. How do you get hooked up with Herb cold?

1237
01:07:58,600 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: I know?

1238
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 2: Is this crazy? So what happened is Buddy Blue was

1239
01:08:02,080 --> 01:08:06,880
Speaker 2: signed to Bizarre and so he brought them in to

1240
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 2: see me, Herb Cohen and said, you got to see

1241
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,960
Speaker 2: this guy. He's in this duo. We were a duo Rugburts,

1242
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 2: Me and Rob Driscoll, and he came to see us,

1243
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 2: immediately signed us and said you need to come up

1244
01:08:19,439 --> 01:08:24,439
Speaker 2: to La meet Mutt Cohen, and I want you to

1245
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:27,160
Speaker 2: do an ePK. They used to do epk's back then,

1246
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 2: electronic press kits where they would send them out on

1247
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 2: a video cassette. And my ePK was me with Wildman

1248
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:37,720
Speaker 2: Fisher because Wildman Fisher was on Bizarre and wild Mount

1249
01:08:37,800 --> 01:08:40,040
Speaker 2: Fisher would walk around and for those of you listen

1250
01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,599
Speaker 2: out there, wild Mount Fisher was signed by Zappa and

1251
01:08:42,680 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 2: he was this guy you would go.

1252
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 4: My name is Larry.

1253
01:08:45,680 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 2: I have a sister, and we have this whole thing

1254
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 2: where he would go up to people who's a better songwriter,

1255
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 2: Steve Poltzer, Wildman Fisher and wild Mattfisher would have crumbs

1256
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 2: in his beard and just crazy stuff. So we make

1257
01:08:58,320 --> 01:09:01,840
Speaker 2: this electronic press kit the rugber Get signed. Next thing

1258
01:09:01,880 --> 01:09:04,439
Speaker 2: I know, we're playing at like the True Badoura in

1259
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,920
Speaker 2: La and Club Lingerie and all these different places, and

1260
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:11,240
Speaker 2: so weird Al would always come out to see us,

1261
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 2: and so weird Al loved a song by the Rugburns

1262
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 2: called Dix Automotive. Because of Dick's automotive, weird Aal wrote

1263
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 2: the song Albuquerque, which is one of his songs he wrote,

1264
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,479
Speaker 2: but it's a direct takeoff of the Rugburns, but he

1265
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 2: didn't credit us. I kind of wish he would have,

1266
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,599
Speaker 2: but it's okay. He wrote Albuquerque. If you ab di'x

1267
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,760
Speaker 2: automotive and Albuquerque he's doing. He would always he was

1268
01:09:34,800 --> 01:09:36,800
Speaker 2: obsessed with that song, would come in and listen to.

1269
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:39,360
Speaker 2: John was living in Ocean Beach, California with his girlfriend

1270
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 2: Juliet's where I'm talking really rapid, and so we get

1271
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 2: signed herb Cohen for whatever reason, loves me. He flew

1272
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,080
Speaker 2: He would fly me to Paris with him to meet

1273
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 2: this guy named Ben Waugh who worked at Monterey Jazz

1274
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:58,960
Speaker 2: Fest and stuff. And Herb Cohen was this insane guy

1275
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,760
Speaker 2: who used to to run guns with Fidel Castro. He

1276
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:06,760
Speaker 2: signed Lenny Bruce, Alice Cooper, Linda Ronstadt, Tom Waits. I

1277
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 2: mean his history is crazy. They on the publishing on

1278
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 2: Everybody's talking at me. Fred Neil saw on that Harry

1279
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:16,600
Speaker 2: Niels would say, so, Herb Cohen would fly me to

1280
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:18,880
Speaker 2: Paris out of the blue and go, I know a

1281
01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 2: great place where we can get couscous on Saturdays. Are

1282
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,519
Speaker 2: you in? And he would buy me and him tickets

1283
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,080
Speaker 2: first class, probably charge it to me, and then he'd

1284
01:10:29,120 --> 01:10:31,639
Speaker 2: pay like three hundred dollars cab. Right, we'd end up

1285
01:10:31,720 --> 01:10:36,240
Speaker 2: in some nondescript Moroccan neighborhood in Paris eating couscous with

1286
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:40,400
Speaker 2: Ben Law. I mean, being signed by Herb Cohen was

1287
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,000
Speaker 2: like a blessing. Even though he took half the publishing.

1288
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:46,680
Speaker 2: I didn't even care. And he would show up at

1289
01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: my gigs and Herb would go because Herb if put

1290
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:51,720
Speaker 2: anybody out there listening. He was on the cover of

1291
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,240
Speaker 2: Nighthawks at the diner with Tom Waits, he's the guy

1292
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:58,040
Speaker 2: sitting in that picture, and Herb Cohen would go, you

1293
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,400
Speaker 2: need to get midgets on the stage with you, and

1294
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:05,639
Speaker 2: don't drink whiskey. Put iced t in the whiskey bottle.

1295
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:10,880
Speaker 2: So we get signed to that label and this guy

1296
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 2: Mike Haller and ninety one X starts playing a song

1297
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:16,920
Speaker 2: called Hitchhiker Joe and the song starts kind of getting

1298
01:11:17,040 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 2: college radio favorite type stuff. So we end up going

1299
01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:23,720
Speaker 2: on tour with the band X and I'd split my

1300
01:11:23,760 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 2: head open. I had fifty six stitches in my skull

1301
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:30,200
Speaker 2: and we would play with X and John Doe and

1302
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 2: then we got to play with the Ramones and Cleveland,

1303
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 2: and it was just nuts because Joey Ramone was really

1304
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 2: nice to me. They didn't let bands stay backstage when

1305
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,439
Speaker 2: they would be on, but Joey went, you guys are cool,

1306
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,679
Speaker 2: you could watch us play. But everything changed when Mojo

1307
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 2: Nixon took me out, because Mojo was insane, and we

1308
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:54,960
Speaker 2: would play stashes in Columbus, Ohio, and a biker would

1309
01:11:55,040 --> 01:11:57,839
Speaker 2: show up and you'd go come down to the basement.

1310
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 2: I just made some crystal meth in the desert in

1311
01:12:01,200 --> 01:12:04,519
Speaker 2: Baker's Field, and Mojo was like Saddam Hussein, and he

1312
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:06,479
Speaker 2: would have me try his drugs to make sure they

1313
01:12:06,520 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 2: weren't poisonous first before he did them. So you go

1314
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:12,200
Speaker 2: have Bolts try that drug. And so I would snort

1315
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 2: the meth and then we would be out of our

1316
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 2: minds and the Rugburanns would go on stage and just

1317
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:20,400
Speaker 2: destroy shit, get the power turned off on us. And

1318
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:24,240
Speaker 2: Mojo came up with this quote, no mom meth, but Bolts, y'all.

1319
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 2: Motherfucker is gonna make me work too hard. And so

1320
01:12:28,120 --> 01:12:31,599
Speaker 2: we became super close with him. And so the only

1321
01:12:31,640 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 2: couple times I'd done meth where with Shane McGowan of

1322
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 2: the Pogues and with Mojo Nixon and think I'm the

1323
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,120
Speaker 2: only guy that sat on Elvis Presley's shoulders and snorted

1324
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,519
Speaker 2: meth out of Shane McGowan's dirty thumbnail, and then with

1325
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 2: Mojo Nixon's drug taster. And so our shows just became

1326
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:53,440
Speaker 2: nuts where we would just anything would go on stage,

1327
01:12:54,000 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 2: and the Rugburnds toured hard.

1328
01:12:56,080 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: It was crazy, okay, continue So.

1329
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 2: As we were going on the road, we had this

1330
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:06,479
Speaker 2: drummer in the band. We became a full band, and

1331
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 2: we went from being a duo. Herb Cohen thought we

1332
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,840
Speaker 2: should get a drummer and a bass player, and so

1333
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 2: I would go up to La a Lot to Herb

1334
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,120
Speaker 2: and Mutt's office and they also have a son, Evan

1335
01:13:18,240 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 2: Con and I would hang out with Herb and Mutt

1336
01:13:21,479 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 2: in their office all the time, and Herb would go,

1337
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: I know a great place that makes a great oxtail soup.

1338
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:30,200
Speaker 2: We're going to go over there. And we would go

1339
01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:33,080
Speaker 2: to Musso and Franks and just hang out, Me and

1340
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 2: Herb Cohen. It was crazy. So they would give us

1341
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:39,560
Speaker 2: money to go out on the road. We toured NonStop.

1342
01:13:39,640 --> 01:13:41,759
Speaker 2: We would go for like nine months at a time.

1343
01:13:42,360 --> 01:13:45,880
Speaker 2: And we had this old van and most band members

1344
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 2: when they're in a van, they put band stickers on it,

1345
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,120
Speaker 2: you know it's a band. But I came up with

1346
01:13:51,160 --> 01:13:54,320
Speaker 2: this idea because fans are always getting broken into tint

1347
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,920
Speaker 2: out the windows black and on the side, just put

1348
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 2: Saint Joseph's Catholics had that on the back and on

1349
01:14:01,800 --> 01:14:02,400
Speaker 2: the sides.

1350
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 4: Nobody ever broke into our van, never, So we.

1351
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 2: Would just drive down the road in this van and

1352
01:14:11,240 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 2: it says Saint Justine's Catholic school. I remember one time

1353
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:16,800
Speaker 2: we were in West Virginia and we got pulled over.

1354
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,479
Speaker 2: But if you really inspected the van, on the roof,

1355
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,800
Speaker 2: we had all these naked lady playing cards, you know

1356
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:23,840
Speaker 2: where they used to sell those at truck stops where

1357
01:14:23,880 --> 01:14:26,479
Speaker 2: the girls would have big boobs and they'd be a

1358
01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 2: deck of fifty two cards. We had them glued to

1359
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,240
Speaker 2: the ceiling of the van, and my hair was like

1360
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:35,479
Speaker 2: long and striped, weird. And we had this record out

1361
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 2: called Morning Wood. It was on bizarre and then we

1362
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,280
Speaker 2: had Mommy, I'm sorry, this other one where I'd be

1363
01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:45,040
Speaker 2: in a pink dress. And so this state trooper pulled

1364
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,760
Speaker 2: us over when we were in the rugbords and he

1365
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 2: starts looking at us and looking at our hair, and

1366
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,320
Speaker 2: he goes, what is Saint Justsephe's Catholic school? I said,

1367
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,719
Speaker 2: And I remember I said to him, I'm just singing

1368
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 2: for the Lord, sir. And then he saw make a

1369
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,840
Speaker 2: lady playing cards and he didn't know what was going on.

1370
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,280
Speaker 2: Just get out of the van. He looked at the

1371
01:15:03,400 --> 01:15:06,720
Speaker 2: van and he didn't know what to do. And this

1372
01:15:06,840 --> 01:15:09,160
Speaker 2: is the weirdest thing that's ever happened to me. He goes,

1373
01:15:09,200 --> 01:15:11,759
Speaker 2: you can go and he goes here, maybe you need these,

1374
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 2: and he gave me some handcuffs with a key, like

1375
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:19,599
Speaker 2: real cop handcuffs. He gave me them, Bob, and I

1376
01:15:19,640 --> 01:15:22,120
Speaker 2: remember I would pull them out on stage and a

1377
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 2: big part of my show would be I'd handcuff myself

1378
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:28,839
Speaker 2: to the drum kit and I put the key somewhere

1379
01:15:28,840 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 2: and I'd fake like I lost it, like I was

1380
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:32,559
Speaker 2: going to be chained to the floor of the whole show.

1381
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 2: So then we played in a Chicago at a club

1382
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 2: called shubas Southport and Belmont. There was a girl that

1383
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 2: was beautiful named Anastasia who was the booking agent. Now

1384
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 2: she's a big part of my life because she went

1385
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:51,120
Speaker 2: to UCLA and I took her to a place called

1386
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:54,759
Speaker 2: mccabs in Santa Monica to see a guy named Loud

1387
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:58,080
Speaker 2: and Wayne right the third And I remember when I

1388
01:15:58,120 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 2: was with her at that show, I watched Luden Wayne Wright,

1389
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:05,040
Speaker 2: and that's when I saw my future. So what I

1390
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 2: mean is I'm watching Laden Wayne Write play on stage

1391
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,599
Speaker 2: at mccabs and I was in the rugburns and I

1392
01:16:11,640 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 2: have my arm around Anastasia and I looked at her.

1393
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 2: I've never forgotten this and I said I can do that,

1394
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:19,880
Speaker 2: and she goes, what do you mean? I said, what

1395
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:22,760
Speaker 2: he's doing, I can do that. I'm in the Rugburns

1396
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:26,040
Speaker 2: right now wearing a dress on stage. But that's my future.

1397
01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:28,519
Speaker 2: I don't mean I can be him. I mean I

1398
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:32,639
Speaker 2: can do what he's doing and I can make a living.

1399
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:37,120
Speaker 2: Everything came before I saw everything my future. And then

1400
01:16:37,160 --> 01:16:39,920
Speaker 2: Anastasia got a job as the booking agent moved out

1401
01:16:39,920 --> 01:16:43,200
Speaker 2: to Chicago. I remember I showed up sorrow. I had

1402
01:16:43,240 --> 01:16:45,880
Speaker 2: just gotten the handcuffs, and I said, why don't you

1403
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,479
Speaker 2: meet me anywhere in Europe this summer. Let's take two

1404
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:51,720
Speaker 2: weeks and go make love on the beaches somewhere. And

1405
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 2: we opened up the Let's Go Europe book. This is

1406
01:16:54,160 --> 01:16:57,479
Speaker 2: pre internet, and I said, wherever my finger touches on

1407
01:16:57,520 --> 01:16:59,480
Speaker 2: the page, you're going to meet me there. In October.

1408
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:03,640
Speaker 2: It was a place called Making Use and Greece. She

1409
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:08,080
Speaker 2: showed up and I brought the handcuffs, and I was

1410
01:17:08,120 --> 01:17:10,880
Speaker 2: with my friend Kevin McGrath, who I wrote I want

1411
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:13,200
Speaker 2: all my friends to be happy about. He died of

1412
01:17:13,280 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 2: cancer and he came out to run the Athens Marathon.

1413
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:21,680
Speaker 2: I brought the handcuffs Bob and Tom Petty had just

1414
01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:24,599
Speaker 2: come out with free Fall, and so we were walking

1415
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:27,519
Speaker 2: on the down the streets and Greece and making us

1416
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:32,320
Speaker 2: singing She's a good girl, loves her mama, drinking shots

1417
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:34,600
Speaker 2: of Luzo, but me and Anastasia are fake drinking the

1418
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 2: shots because we had no money, so we were all

1419
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:39,480
Speaker 2: sharing a room. I wanted to have sex with Anastasia,

1420
01:17:39,880 --> 01:17:41,439
Speaker 2: but Kevin was going to be in the room, so

1421
01:17:41,479 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 2: I needed to get him drunk enough where he was

1422
01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 2: passed out because I wanted to use the handcuffs on Anastasia.

1423
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,519
Speaker 5: So we're walking on the streets going She's bat and

1424
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 5: I'm a bad boy living in Mezieda, and then he's

1425
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:55,560
Speaker 5: getting the chorus.

1426
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:59,400
Speaker 2: I'm free free falling. So we go back to the room,

1427
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:04,000
Speaker 2: Kevin asses out, Anastasia goes. I brought over some sexy

1428
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,360
Speaker 2: lainger aim and to go in the bathroom and change

1429
01:18:06,400 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 2: into it. So I got totally naked and I handcuffed

1430
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:13,439
Speaker 2: myself to the ceiling fan, and then the ceiling fan

1431
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,360
Speaker 2: was kind of going slow, so I was like a

1432
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:18,679
Speaker 2: rotisserie chicken. But I almost looked like an egon ChIL

1433
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:22,200
Speaker 2: painting because I was real skinny, my fingers are real long,

1434
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:26,559
Speaker 2: and I'm hanging from the ceiling fan twirling around real slow,

1435
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:31,000
Speaker 2: and Kevin's asleep and I'm nude. Anastasia walks out in

1436
01:18:31,120 --> 01:18:33,800
Speaker 2: some sexy lingerie and she sees me, and she goes,

1437
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 2: you're a bad boy. And then all of a sudden,

1438
01:18:36,439 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 2: Kevin sits up like a mummy.

1439
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:41,560
Speaker 5: And goes living in Resida, and he was awake the

1440
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:45,639
Speaker 5: whole time. I'd seen everything. So this is the kind

1441
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,080
Speaker 5: of shit. This is why I do this line of work.

1442
01:18:48,400 --> 01:18:52,759
Speaker 5: For the handcuffs, for the love, and for the music

1443
01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 5: and all of that stuff. To have been able to

1444
01:18:55,720 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 5: have been signed to Bizarre Planet Records after being on

1445
01:18:58,600 --> 01:19:02,240
Speaker 5: up with people, I mean, come on, it's a great life.

1446
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:03,479
Speaker 5: We get to live here, Bob.

1447
01:19:05,320 --> 01:19:06,519
Speaker 1: So how did it end with Herb?

1448
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:12,479
Speaker 2: What happened was Herb I would go up and see

1449
01:19:12,479 --> 01:19:15,120
Speaker 2: in La and then I met this girl named Jewel,

1450
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,559
Speaker 2: and Jewel was working at a place called Java Joe's,

1451
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:22,280
Speaker 2: and that was in Poway, California. So I would come

1452
01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:24,280
Speaker 2: off of the road with the rugburns and I'd gotten

1453
01:19:24,320 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 2: in a fistfight with our drummer and I had a

1454
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:29,839
Speaker 2: big old black eye and I had taught Joe's strummer

1455
01:19:29,880 --> 01:19:33,200
Speaker 2: from the class how to play black jacket. Vegas got

1456
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 2: to see him play at the joint. He was with

1457
01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:39,000
Speaker 2: Joe Strummer and the Mescaleros and I walk in I

1458
01:19:39,040 --> 01:19:41,800
Speaker 2: got a black eye, and I show up at this place,

1459
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:44,720
Speaker 2: Java Joe's, and there's this blonde girl and she's beautiful

1460
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:48,519
Speaker 2: and she says, oh, I like the Rugburns. How can

1461
01:19:48,560 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 2: I get a following like the Rugburns? And she was

1462
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:53,519
Speaker 2: making me some tea. It was midnight. They would run

1463
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:56,200
Speaker 2: an illegal poker game in the back of Java Joe's.

1464
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:59,240
Speaker 2: And I said, well, you should find your own place

1465
01:19:59,439 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 2: and that that doesn't have a music scene and make

1466
01:20:01,760 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 2: it your own. I'm a big believer and create your

1467
01:20:04,040 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 2: own scene. And so Jewel says, you want to hear

1468
01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,200
Speaker 2: some of my songs and I said sure. So she

1469
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:11,599
Speaker 2: takes me out to her Volkswagen van. She was living

1470
01:20:11,640 --> 01:20:14,040
Speaker 2: in it in the back of Java Jo's and Powie

1471
01:20:14,360 --> 01:20:17,639
Speaker 2: and we made stained glass art and then we fell

1472
01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 2: in love and we would go surfing together and we

1473
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:26,160
Speaker 2: found a place for her to play. And so at

1474
01:20:26,160 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 2: the time I was still signed with the Rugburns. And

1475
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:33,479
Speaker 2: then Jewel and myself. We ended up in Mexico surfing

1476
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:36,360
Speaker 2: and we ended up on a drug bust with all

1477
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:39,280
Speaker 2: these cops and the pictures are online where there was

1478
01:20:39,320 --> 01:20:44,200
Speaker 2: tons of weed and we end up on this drug bust.

1479
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:46,760
Speaker 2: We take pictures with her arms around these cops. And

1480
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:48,599
Speaker 2: that's when I went back and we wrote this song

1481
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:50,559
Speaker 2: called you Were Meant for Me in the room, which

1482
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:52,600
Speaker 2: meant nothing to me at the time. Little did I

1483
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 2: know it was like writing a winning lottery ticket. So

1484
01:20:56,439 --> 01:20:58,840
Speaker 2: we write this song you Were Meant for Me. Come

1485
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:02,840
Speaker 2: back to the United States from Mexico. We go out

1486
01:21:02,880 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 2: for six year old tacos.

1487
01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:05,559
Speaker 4: Wh whoa whoa, whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa.

1488
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:06,880
Speaker 1: What happened with the drug bust?

1489
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:10,719
Speaker 2: Oh? So we're out. We break into a hotel room

1490
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,559
Speaker 2: in a place called Bahia. They San Luis Gonzaga, and

1491
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 2: I'm with Jewel and she wants to go well watching.

1492
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:19,960
Speaker 2: So nobody's in the hotel, so we kick open one

1493
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:22,080
Speaker 2: of the doors. We fall asleep in a king sized

1494
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:26,320
Speaker 2: bed with Mexican blankets. We wake up and the sun's

1495
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:29,280
Speaker 2: coming up and I look out the window and Jewel goes,

1496
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:31,680
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is beautiful. So we go out

1497
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:33,200
Speaker 2: on the beach and she says, we got to get

1498
01:21:33,200 --> 01:21:36,200
Speaker 2: a boat, and none of us had any money. So

1499
01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:39,080
Speaker 2: we're sitting on the beach and Jewels in a yellow bikini.

1500
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:43,000
Speaker 2: She looks beautiful, and these four Mexican federales come down

1501
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:45,920
Speaker 2: the beach with guns in their belts and they walk

1502
01:21:46,040 --> 01:21:47,800
Speaker 2: up to us. It's like something out of a Clint

1503
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:51,040
Speaker 2: Eastwood film and you can see the heat rising off

1504
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:54,040
Speaker 2: the sand and they say, would you guys like to

1505
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:58,559
Speaker 2: go watching? So I said no because I was scared

1506
01:21:58,560 --> 01:21:59,960
Speaker 2: to go out on a boat with them, but Jewel

1507
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:02,320
Speaker 2: said yes, so I had to go. So we go

1508
01:22:02,400 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 2: out on the middle of the water the Bahia. They

1509
01:22:05,600 --> 01:22:08,960
Speaker 2: sent the weeds Gonzaga and these guys have automatic weapons.

1510
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:13,360
Speaker 2: They're just looking at Jewel in this yellow bikini. I

1511
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,080
Speaker 2: think they're gonna kill me, throw me overboard. It's like

1512
01:22:16,120 --> 01:22:20,360
Speaker 2: a Cone Brothers Blood Simple or something. And so instead

1513
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:22,559
Speaker 2: they get a call on their radio and they say, hey,

1514
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:25,559
Speaker 2: we have to go catch these drug smugglers and we

1515
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 2: don't have time to take you back to shore and

1516
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:30,479
Speaker 2: put on these bulletproof vests. So we put on the vests.

1517
01:22:30,520 --> 01:22:33,800
Speaker 2: My heart's found it, so fast. The boat goes to

1518
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:36,920
Speaker 2: this little island. It's like Miami Vice. You see these

1519
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:40,799
Speaker 2: drug smugglers running. They caught the slowest one. He tells

1520
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,840
Speaker 2: them where all the weed is. So the cops make

1521
01:22:43,920 --> 01:22:45,840
Speaker 2: me go to this boat and carry all the weed

1522
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,280
Speaker 2: back to the boat and they give those guys those

1523
01:22:48,280 --> 01:22:52,120
Speaker 2: plastic ties around their wrists. They have like six drug smugglers.

1524
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:54,599
Speaker 2: And we get on the boat with the drug smugglers

1525
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,080
Speaker 2: who look at me like I'm stealing their weed, and

1526
01:22:57,120 --> 01:23:00,160
Speaker 2: they're like they want to kill me and the cops there.

1527
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 2: So we go back to the shore and we get

1528
01:23:03,040 --> 01:23:04,599
Speaker 2: out and I said, well, we're going to get going.

1529
01:23:04,680 --> 01:23:06,360
Speaker 2: I I just wanted to get the hell out of there.

1530
01:23:06,640 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 2: And I said, what are you guys going to do?

1531
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:11,120
Speaker 2: And they said, this is the largest drug bust we've

1532
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 2: had in years in this area. We're going to have

1533
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 2: a party. And so we go to walk away and

1534
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 2: the cock goes stay by Bena key, which means Steve

1535
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:22,760
Speaker 2: come here. And I said what he said, I want

1536
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 2: you to take some And this is back in like

1537
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:29,000
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety two, right, maybe ninety four, I think, And

1538
01:23:29,080 --> 01:23:32,160
Speaker 2: he opens up a switchblade and he stabs one of

1539
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:35,160
Speaker 2: the kilos of this Mexican dirt, and you can smell

1540
01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:38,599
Speaker 2: the skunk smell coming up through my nostrils, and he says,

1541
01:23:38,640 --> 01:23:40,760
Speaker 2: take some. So I'm trying to figure out what less

1542
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:43,760
Speaker 2: than announces, and I stick my long, bony fingers in

1543
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:46,599
Speaker 2: to grab the weed out, and as I do, he says,

1544
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 2: take the whole kilo jewel, digs her fingernails into my

1545
01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:52,840
Speaker 2: arm and goes, Steve, don't do it. You're gonna end

1546
01:23:52,920 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 2: up in jail. It's going to be like Midnight Express.

1547
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 2: I'll be talking to you from me on a glass wall.

1548
01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:00,719
Speaker 2: And then I just said, a man with the badge

1549
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:04,120
Speaker 2: in Mexico is telling me to take the jewel, and

1550
01:24:04,160 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 2: they pulled their guns out, and I took the whole kilo,

1551
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:09,680
Speaker 2: and they said, let's take a picture. So if you

1552
01:24:09,760 --> 01:24:13,000
Speaker 2: look and type in Jewel drug Bust photos, you'll see

1553
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:16,200
Speaker 2: us and all this weed shoved into a black suburban.

1554
01:24:16,240 --> 01:24:18,760
Speaker 2: Behind us. We're holding Corona beers or some kind of beer,

1555
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,200
Speaker 2: and we have guns in our hands, and the cops

1556
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:24,960
Speaker 2: are next to us in Mexico. And these pictures I

1557
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:28,160
Speaker 2: think made High Times magazine, and my parents were so proud.

1558
01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 2: So we went back to the room after the drug bust,

1559
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 2: and I gave the kilo to this old woman who

1560
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:39,040
Speaker 2: was making some spaghetti sauce for a Mormon youth group,

1561
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 2: and she poured the whole kilo into the spaghetti sauce

1562
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:45,120
Speaker 2: fed the youth group. And I woke up at midnight

1563
01:24:45,160 --> 01:24:48,439
Speaker 2: and all these Mormon missionary kids were like playing frisbee

1564
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:51,120
Speaker 2: and stuff. And I came back, got in bed with Jewel,

1565
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:53,200
Speaker 2: woke up in the morning and I grabbed the guitar,

1566
01:24:53,320 --> 01:24:55,400
Speaker 2: and Jewel goes, do the thing where you make up

1567
01:24:55,400 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 2: a song, So I start doing the riff you were

1568
01:24:57,960 --> 01:25:01,120
Speaker 2: meant for me. Little do I know this song's gonna

1569
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:04,160
Speaker 2: sell millions and millions of records, like ten million. Who

1570
01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:06,400
Speaker 2: knows set a record on the Billboard Top one on

1571
01:25:06,520 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 2: your chart. I have no idea I'm writing something that's

1572
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:13,400
Speaker 2: gonna pay me the rest of my life. And so

1573
01:25:13,439 --> 01:25:16,080
Speaker 2: we write the song, but then we write a second

1574
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:18,680
Speaker 2: song called food Stamp Love, and I go, this is

1575
01:25:18,720 --> 01:25:21,759
Speaker 2: the hit you were meant for me sucks. Food Stamp

1576
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:24,200
Speaker 2: Love's cool, and the whole chorus was I'm sick of

1577
01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,120
Speaker 2: your Foodstamp Love about a lever who doles out food

1578
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 2: do you like, it's a government assistance program, and Jewel goes,

1579
01:25:30,840 --> 01:25:32,720
Speaker 2: I'll never forget jewels. She was like, I think you

1580
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,040
Speaker 2: were meant for me as the hit, not Foodstamp Love.

1581
01:25:35,400 --> 01:25:38,599
Speaker 2: And we're driving back to get to San Diego, and

1582
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:41,599
Speaker 2: you were meant for me flies out of the window.

1583
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 2: We didn't have iPhones back then. It was on like napkins.

1584
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 2: It was written and it flew out, and I go,

1585
01:25:47,439 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 2: it's okay, we got food Stamp Love and Jewel goes.

1586
01:25:51,080 --> 01:25:53,080
Speaker 4: You gotta go back and get you were meant for me.

1587
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 2: Those words were cool, please Si. We got in an argument.

1588
01:25:57,320 --> 01:26:00,519
Speaker 2: I made a U turn. I drove back. You were

1589
01:26:00,560 --> 01:26:03,200
Speaker 2: meant for me the winning lottery ticket that was on

1590
01:26:03,240 --> 01:26:06,360
Speaker 2: the freaking ground. And then we drove across the border

1591
01:26:06,640 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 2: and we go to a Mexican place called La Posta

1592
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 2: on University Avenue where drug dealers and prostitutes would hang

1593
01:26:13,520 --> 01:26:15,720
Speaker 2: out and it's the only place that was opened late

1594
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:17,639
Speaker 2: at night, and you would get a bean and cheese

1595
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:21,400
Speaker 2: burrito and six year old tacos with guacamole. Stick the

1596
01:26:21,479 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 2: Crispy World taco with the shredded beef inside, stick it

1597
01:26:25,600 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 2: in the bean burrito and then bite that for the crunchiness. Boh,

1598
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:32,559
Speaker 2: it's sublime with the guacamole a on top of the

1599
01:26:32,600 --> 01:26:35,439
Speaker 2: six year old tacos for like a dollar ninety nine.

1600
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 2: So we're sitting out there, me and Jewel and there's

1601
01:26:38,160 --> 01:26:41,240
Speaker 2: four prostitutes and they say, what do you guys hippies?

1602
01:26:41,439 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 2: And we go yeah, and they said you sing songs

1603
01:26:44,040 --> 01:26:46,040
Speaker 2: and I go yeah. They go, sing us a song.

1604
01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 2: I go, we just wrote a song called you Were

1605
01:26:48,160 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 2: Meant for Me. You want to hear it now if

1606
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 2: you look at Timespace Continuum. Nobody'd ever heard that song

1607
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:56,320
Speaker 2: but me and Jewel and now four hookers. So we

1608
01:26:56,439 --> 01:26:58,400
Speaker 2: sing it for the four hookers. I go, tell us

1609
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:01,280
Speaker 2: who should sing the song? So I sang it first,

1610
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,479
Speaker 2: and then Jewel sang it, and then they clapped for

1611
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:06,880
Speaker 2: both of us, and they said we're going to go

1612
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 2: over here and deliberate and we'll let you know. We'll

1613
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:11,320
Speaker 2: come back tell you should sing it. And it was

1614
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:14,880
Speaker 2: a quick verdict, which is never good. Off they came

1615
01:27:14,960 --> 01:27:18,240
Speaker 2: back and the lead prostitute, I said, have you reached

1616
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:20,120
Speaker 2: a decision and she said yes, we have your honor,

1617
01:27:20,120 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 2: and I said, please let us know, and they looked

1618
01:27:22,120 --> 01:27:25,160
Speaker 2: at Jewel and they said, honey, you sing that that

1619
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 2: white boy can't sing. You do the song. And that's

1620
01:27:29,720 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 2: that was our an R department. And then Jewel ended

1621
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 2: up getting signed to Atlantic Records by the same guy

1622
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:38,080
Speaker 2: you signed me, Danny Goldberg, because he was the Atlantic

1623
01:27:38,120 --> 01:27:40,840
Speaker 2: back then he was the president of the ACLU. He

1624
01:27:40,880 --> 01:27:44,439
Speaker 2: would switch things. He was married to Rosemary Carol, you know,

1625
01:27:44,479 --> 01:27:47,160
Speaker 2: who had been married to Jim Carroll, and Rosemary was

1626
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:53,240
Speaker 2: Nirvana's lawyer. And so Jewel gets signed and everybody's going,

1627
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,840
Speaker 2: you were met from me, this is the hit, and

1628
01:27:55,880 --> 01:27:58,000
Speaker 2: I was like, what about food stamp love?

1629
01:27:58,240 --> 01:27:59,439
Speaker 5: No like fuck you?

1630
01:28:00,120 --> 01:28:03,400
Speaker 4: That song means nothing, and I remember being really hurt.

1631
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:06,240
Speaker 2: And then Neil Young came to see Jewel play at

1632
01:28:06,240 --> 01:28:09,640
Speaker 2: the Interchange, which was the scene she created because we

1633
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:12,519
Speaker 2: found it and it would get so packed. Neil Young

1634
01:28:12,560 --> 01:28:15,200
Speaker 2: came all the way down at San Diego would record

1635
01:28:15,240 --> 01:28:17,559
Speaker 2: her outside of it, and then asked if we would

1636
01:28:17,640 --> 01:28:20,040
Speaker 2: come live at his ranch to make his record. So

1637
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 2: me and Jewel move up to Elliott Roberts Place that

1638
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:26,760
Speaker 2: was on Neil Young's property because Elliott was going through

1639
01:28:26,760 --> 01:28:29,800
Speaker 2: a divorce and wasn't there, so we lived on Neil

1640
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 2: Young's Ranch and the Stray Gators were the band, and

1641
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 2: I got to beat the guitarist. The drummer was Kenneth Butchery,

1642
01:28:36,280 --> 01:28:38,559
Speaker 2: who was the drummer on Rainy Dame Women number twelve

1643
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:40,800
Speaker 2: and thirty eight. I think that's the numbers from the

1644
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:41,599
Speaker 2: Bob Dylan song.

1645
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:43,840
Speaker 1: I never thirty five, but that's okay.

1646
01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:47,839
Speaker 2: Thirty five right, yeah, thank you? And so I remember

1647
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:50,479
Speaker 2: I walked in, I saw Kenneth Buncher. I go, Kenneth Butchery,

1648
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 2: you're the guy that did that beat. Will you do it? Bob?

1649
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:55,360
Speaker 2: This is one of my favorite moments in life. He

1650
01:28:55,400 --> 01:28:57,439
Speaker 2: looked at me and goes, young Man, Yes I will,

1651
01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:05,759
Speaker 2: and he went and I was in heaven. The bass

1652
01:29:05,760 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 2: player was Tim Drummond. He was so good. It was

1653
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:12,719
Speaker 2: produced by the guy that was in Neil Young's band,

1654
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:15,960
Speaker 2: Ben Keith, who also played pedal steel guitar on Patsy

1655
01:29:16,040 --> 01:29:19,760
Speaker 2: Klein's Crazy. We had the coolest band and I got

1656
01:29:19,800 --> 01:29:22,320
Speaker 2: to play guitar, so we did. You were meant for me.

1657
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:25,400
Speaker 2: We lived at Neil Young's ranch and Ben Keith and

1658
01:29:25,479 --> 01:29:27,880
Speaker 2: Neil Young couldn't believe how much food I could eat

1659
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,960
Speaker 2: because I'm so skinny, but I was always hungry from

1660
01:29:31,000 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 2: the Rugburns days. So Neil Young had his own personal

1661
01:29:34,120 --> 01:29:37,200
Speaker 2: chef who he called Cookie, and they would weigh me

1662
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:40,519
Speaker 2: before breakfast and after breakfast because they said they'd never

1663
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:42,880
Speaker 2: seen anybody eat so much. I was like a snake

1664
01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 2: with apossum and his stomach, and so he would Neil

1665
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:48,519
Speaker 2: Young would.

1666
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:50,400
Speaker 4: Go, that was a four and a half pounder.

1667
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:54,280
Speaker 2: So then we'd go into the studio and we recorded

1668
01:29:54,320 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 2: You Were Meant for Me, and Atlantic stuck with that record,

1669
01:29:58,840 --> 01:30:02,160
Speaker 2: and the version of You Were Me for Me didn't

1670
01:30:02,400 --> 01:30:05,800
Speaker 2: do a lot early, and they got it redone by

1671
01:30:06,640 --> 01:30:10,759
Speaker 2: some other guy who was a famous producer, Peter Collins

1672
01:30:10,840 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 2: or something. He redid it and they got Flee to

1673
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:18,600
Speaker 2: play bass on it, and so they they did you

1674
01:30:18,680 --> 01:30:20,880
Speaker 2: Were Meant for Me again, and at first they had

1675
01:30:20,880 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 2: Sean Penn direct the video, and Sean Penn had stolen

1676
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:28,160
Speaker 2: jewel from me and so he directed the video. So

1677
01:30:28,200 --> 01:30:30,880
Speaker 2: I was glad when the video failed because then they

1678
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:33,160
Speaker 2: redid it and I was the guy in the video

1679
01:30:33,200 --> 01:30:35,960
Speaker 2: with jewel and I'm not wearing a shirt, and that

1680
01:30:36,200 --> 01:30:39,720
Speaker 2: version went really big and Flee played bass on it,

1681
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:41,920
Speaker 2: and so it was pretty cool. Because I got to

1682
01:30:41,920 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 2: see Flee when we played Woodstock ninety nine and Fleega

1683
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:47,960
Speaker 2: was about to go on stage naked, and I remember

1684
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:50,439
Speaker 2: he didn't even have a sock over as Dick. And

1685
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:52,680
Speaker 2: I remember talking to Flee and I had smoked some

1686
01:30:52,800 --> 01:30:56,160
Speaker 2: fog hat weed because Jewel bought fog hats sold tour bus,

1687
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:58,840
Speaker 2: and I was so stoned, and I remember just looking

1688
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 2: at Flee's Dick and you should not be named Flee

1689
01:31:02,560 --> 01:31:05,760
Speaker 2: because that thing's big and he's a little guy, and

1690
01:31:05,760 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 2: he's jumping around on stage at Woodstock ninety nine is

1691
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,160
Speaker 2: Dick's flopping around. And I remember before he went on,

1692
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:13,120
Speaker 2: he was like, did you like the bass part? I

1693
01:31:13,280 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 2: laid on you were meant for Me? And when we

1694
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:18,880
Speaker 2: played the riots calmed down. There was like all these

1695
01:31:18,960 --> 01:31:22,920
Speaker 2: limp biscuit dudes out there. Nobody was rioting because we

1696
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 2: were singing you were Meant for Me, and everybody was

1697
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:27,400
Speaker 2: at peace at that moment, and Juel End had to

1698
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 2: set on who Will Save Your Soul? And Elvis Costello

1699
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:31,680
Speaker 2: went on before us. He had warned us it was

1700
01:31:31,720 --> 01:31:34,519
Speaker 2: getting crazy, and then we got off stage, and then

1701
01:31:34,560 --> 01:31:36,639
Speaker 2: the Chili Peppers were the final band, and you could

1702
01:31:36,640 --> 01:31:37,200
Speaker 2: hear what.

1703
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:39,040
Speaker 1: Give it to your mom?

1704
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:41,920
Speaker 2: On fleas Dick's flapping around and people are setting porta

1705
01:31:41,960 --> 01:31:45,320
Speaker 2: potties on fire and everything. But when we played, I

1706
01:31:45,320 --> 01:31:47,800
Speaker 2: got to tell you, Bob, there was peace at Woodstock

1707
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 2: ninety nine.

1708
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 1: Okay, Slower, did she already have to deal with Atlantic

1709
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:57,240
Speaker 1: when you went to Neil Young's ranch? Or was it

1710
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 1: the work you did there that got you the deal?

1711
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:04,480
Speaker 2: She already had the deal. She got the deal already.

1712
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:10,040
Speaker 2: She got signed out of the interchange, and Tommy Mottola

1713
01:32:10,200 --> 01:32:13,519
Speaker 2: was coming down. He bought her a guitar from Sony Records.

1714
01:32:13,520 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 2: There was all these There was a bidding war, and

1715
01:32:15,920 --> 01:32:20,479
Speaker 2: I remember we met am at Erdigend. Then he had

1716
01:32:20,479 --> 01:32:25,080
Speaker 2: this cane and it was amazing to meet him. And

1717
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:32,360
Speaker 2: then Danny won the bidding war. Jewel got signed and

1718
01:32:32,439 --> 01:32:35,000
Speaker 2: Neil Young had already heard of her, So Neil Young said,

1719
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 2: why don't you come open for me at Madison Square Garden.

1720
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:40,360
Speaker 2: I think it was like a couple of nights sold out.

1721
01:32:41,439 --> 01:32:44,639
Speaker 2: So he flies Jewel in to open for Neil Young

1722
01:32:44,680 --> 01:32:49,840
Speaker 2: at Madison Square Garden before her record's out. Nobody really

1723
01:32:49,880 --> 01:32:53,240
Speaker 2: knows who she is. And he comes backstage and he goes,

1724
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:57,880
Speaker 2: how you doing, Jewel, She's not too good and Neil

1725
01:32:57,880 --> 01:33:00,679
Speaker 2: Young why not? And she goes come about to open

1726
01:33:00,720 --> 01:33:03,559
Speaker 2: for Neil Young at Madison Square Garden and it's sold out,

1727
01:33:04,280 --> 01:33:08,120
Speaker 2: and Neil Young goes, ah, it's just another hash house

1728
01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:13,280
Speaker 2: on the road to success. Show them no respect, which

1729
01:33:13,320 --> 01:33:16,519
Speaker 2: I think to this day is the best advice. And

1730
01:33:16,600 --> 01:33:19,080
Speaker 2: uh so, then the record Jewel goes out and she

1731
01:33:19,120 --> 01:33:20,800
Speaker 2: would open. I was with her. She would open for

1732
01:33:20,840 --> 01:33:23,360
Speaker 2: Peter Murphy and there'd be all these goth fans there

1733
01:33:23,840 --> 01:33:26,920
Speaker 2: and Jewel would come out barefoot and go, Hi, I

1734
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 2: just want you guys to know I believe in angels.

1735
01:33:29,560 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 2: And I would think I'd be standing side stage going,

1736
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:36,639
Speaker 2: don't say that these are goth people. But to Jewel's credit,

1737
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:40,400
Speaker 2: she was true to herself and it worked and she

1738
01:33:40,439 --> 01:33:43,519
Speaker 2: would win over these goth crowds. Then next thing, you know,

1739
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:47,560
Speaker 2: the songs gets legs and it starts breaking all these records,

1740
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:50,160
Speaker 2: and I am now checks were coming in and I

1741
01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,679
Speaker 2: was using my mom and dad's address and checks would

1742
01:33:52,680 --> 01:33:55,439
Speaker 2: be like one hundred and thirty thousand dollars and my

1743
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:57,479
Speaker 2: dad would call me up and go, this must be

1744
01:33:57,520 --> 01:34:00,720
Speaker 2: a mistake. I'll put it in my account how much

1745
01:34:00,760 --> 01:34:01,720
Speaker 2: faith he in me?

1746
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 1: Just so I got it straight. Sean Penn stole Jewel,

1747
01:34:14,320 --> 01:34:15,840
Speaker 1: but then she came back to you.

1748
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:22,960
Speaker 2: Well we did. We did that show in La I

1749
01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:26,479
Speaker 2: think it was the Leno Show, Jay Leno Show, and

1750
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:32,759
Speaker 2: Jewel was opening for Liz Fair at the will Turn

1751
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 2: and so she would have me come out and we

1752
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:39,799
Speaker 2: would play some songs and by the I still love Jewels.

1753
01:34:39,800 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 2: She's like one of my best friends. Like, that's the

1754
01:34:41,560 --> 01:34:46,040
Speaker 2: coolest thing. Is our relationship so fun? So we did

1755
01:34:46,760 --> 01:34:50,080
Speaker 2: the Jay Leno Show and that was I think Michael

1756
01:34:50,200 --> 01:34:54,320
Speaker 2: Caine was on it, and I remember I was backstage

1757
01:34:54,720 --> 01:34:57,240
Speaker 2: and I asked Michael Caine to make an outgoing message

1758
01:34:57,240 --> 01:34:59,320
Speaker 2: on my answering machine. We were getting our makeup and

1759
01:34:59,439 --> 01:35:03,120
Speaker 2: on the same time, and I had a flip phone,

1760
01:35:03,160 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 2: you know before we had iPhones, and I said, will

1761
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,240
Speaker 2: you make my outgoing message of Michael King goes sure,

1762
01:35:08,360 --> 01:35:11,400
Speaker 2: and when it beats, he goes, hello, this is Michael Caine.

1763
01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:15,320
Speaker 2: Steve's nodding. They'll call you when he's recovered. It was

1764
01:35:15,360 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 2: so cool. Off the top of his said, So we

1765
01:35:17,360 --> 01:35:21,839
Speaker 2: do the show and then Sean Penn came to the

1766
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 2: Liz Fair Show and Liz Ferrer was playing I'm a

1767
01:35:25,439 --> 01:35:27,800
Speaker 2: huge fan of Liz Fair, Exile and Guieville and all

1768
01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:30,920
Speaker 2: that stuff. And then he invited us over to his

1769
01:35:31,080 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 2: trailer in Malibu because his house burnt down where he

1770
01:35:34,280 --> 01:35:38,080
Speaker 2: lived with Madonna, and so that house burnt down, and

1771
01:35:38,120 --> 01:35:42,519
Speaker 2: then I think he and Robin Wright had broken up

1772
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 2: or something. So he invited us to his trailer. And

1773
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:48,519
Speaker 2: so we go to Sean Penn's trailer and Malibu overlooking

1774
01:35:48,600 --> 01:35:50,880
Speaker 2: the water, and I remember he had a broken nose

1775
01:35:51,600 --> 01:35:55,599
Speaker 2: and we were smoking weed. Jewel didn't smoke, she didn't drink.

1776
01:35:55,720 --> 01:35:57,880
Speaker 2: Me and Sean were smoking weed and he was playing

1777
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 2: me tapes that do you remember Dave Baerwald, David and David,

1778
01:36:03,000 --> 01:36:03,479
Speaker 2: that band.

1779
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:04,760
Speaker 1: I know Dave Bearwald.

1780
01:36:05,120 --> 01:36:09,280
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so Dave Barwald had given Sean these tapes

1781
01:36:09,280 --> 01:36:12,320
Speaker 2: he got from the CIA of bombings going on. Sean.

1782
01:36:12,400 --> 01:36:15,400
Speaker 2: I remember I was talking about everything. Sean knows a

1783
01:36:15,400 --> 01:36:18,400
Speaker 2: lot of stuff, like I love Sean Penn. But I

1784
01:36:18,439 --> 01:36:20,639
Speaker 2: remember I was so stoned and I went and took

1785
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:24,600
Speaker 2: a piss and Sean was pissing next to me, and

1786
01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:27,639
Speaker 2: I remember I looked at his Dick for some reason

1787
01:36:27,640 --> 01:36:30,360
Speaker 2: because we were pissing side by side. I remember thinking,

1788
01:36:30,640 --> 01:36:34,839
Speaker 2: holy shit, he's gonna steal Jewel. I saw the future.

1789
01:36:34,840 --> 01:36:37,680
Speaker 2: I'm really good at seeing things. And I remember then

1790
01:36:38,160 --> 01:36:41,639
Speaker 2: she was in New York and I called her room

1791
01:36:41,680 --> 01:36:43,719
Speaker 2: and Sean Penn was in the room and answered the phone.

1792
01:36:43,800 --> 01:36:47,240
Speaker 2: I remember I go Sean and he goes Steve, and

1793
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:49,479
Speaker 2: that was it. I was sad for a while. And

1794
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:53,200
Speaker 2: then she flew to con Film Festival with Jack Nicholson

1795
01:36:53,240 --> 01:36:57,679
Speaker 2: and Sean Penn, but then they didn't last and then

1796
01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 2: Jewel redid you were met from. Peter Collins was the producer,

1797
01:37:02,439 --> 01:37:04,599
Speaker 2: and redid it because they thought I could be a hit.

1798
01:37:04,880 --> 01:37:07,639
Speaker 2: And then Flee played bass on it and they kept

1799
01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 2: my guitar part, and then Jewel asked me to be

1800
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:12,880
Speaker 2: in the video, so I was like that. That was

1801
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,439
Speaker 2: when MTV was huge. So I was the shirtless guy

1802
01:37:15,479 --> 01:37:18,920
Speaker 2: in the video and we were like the remote host

1803
01:37:18,960 --> 01:37:21,519
Speaker 2: of the MTV Music Awards. And me and Jewel lived

1804
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:24,160
Speaker 2: in wind and Sea Beach and La Joya, and they

1805
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:26,120
Speaker 2: had all these MTV crew there and they go, let's

1806
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 2: cut the Jewel Saint with Steve Poltz and La Joya

1807
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:32,400
Speaker 2: and we would talk about the Music Awards, and that

1808
01:37:32,520 --> 01:37:34,760
Speaker 2: video was everywhere, and I was for a while known

1809
01:37:34,800 --> 01:37:38,080
Speaker 2: as the dude in the Jewel video and people would

1810
01:37:38,120 --> 01:37:40,240
Speaker 2: see me, go, that's the dude from the Jewel video.

1811
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:42,280
Speaker 2: Like bikers and shit would come up and want me

1812
01:37:42,320 --> 01:37:44,800
Speaker 2: to sign their old ladies breasts and stuff. I was

1813
01:37:44,840 --> 01:37:46,439
Speaker 2: always scared it was gonna be the biker that was

1814
01:37:46,479 --> 01:37:49,799
Speaker 2: gonna kill me. I had slept with this old lady

1815
01:37:49,960 --> 01:37:53,040
Speaker 2: when he was at Sturgis. But uh, yeah, it was

1816
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:54,519
Speaker 2: crazy all that stuff that happened.

1817
01:37:54,520 --> 01:37:59,720
Speaker 1: Okay, once, once Sean stole Jewel, it was never a romance.

1818
01:38:00,080 --> 01:38:01,280
Speaker 1: We knew and Jewel again.

1819
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:06,240
Speaker 2: No, then we were just buddies. Actually got closer. We

1820
01:38:06,439 --> 01:38:08,479
Speaker 2: just got super close, you know, like at first you

1821
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:12,679
Speaker 2: go through a heartbreak and I was really sad, and

1822
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:16,639
Speaker 2: then I just thought, you know what, you get over it.

1823
01:38:16,720 --> 01:38:19,280
Speaker 2: And I love her so much and she's such a

1824
01:38:19,280 --> 01:38:22,280
Speaker 2: good friend of mine and she's so creative. To this day,

1825
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:25,639
Speaker 2: we're just super close. So but Sean did steal her

1826
01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:25,960
Speaker 2: from me.

1827
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 1: I s okay, let's go back to you were meant

1828
01:38:30,400 --> 01:38:35,080
Speaker 1: for me. It sounds like you wrote it, but it's

1829
01:38:35,120 --> 01:38:36,479
Speaker 1: credited to you and Jewel.

1830
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:38,519
Speaker 2: Oh no, we co wrote it.

1831
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:42,559
Speaker 1: Okay, so you co wrote it? Do you own fifty

1832
01:38:42,600 --> 01:38:43,479
Speaker 1: percent of the song?

1833
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:46,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. I could have never written it without her, like

1834
01:38:46,800 --> 01:38:48,320
Speaker 2: I could have never written with it. I would have

1835
01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:49,600
Speaker 2: never said you were met from her.

1836
01:38:50,200 --> 01:38:53,800
Speaker 1: Okay, just just aligning the stories. Yeah, okay, So there's

1837
01:38:53,840 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 1: one hundred cents in the U in a dollar. Was

1838
01:38:58,040 --> 01:39:01,120
Speaker 1: your deal with publishing? Deal with her Cohen already over?

1839
01:39:01,240 --> 01:39:03,160
Speaker 1: How come he didn't get half the publishing?

1840
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:06,880
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he got money too. Yeah, herb got a

1841
01:39:06,880 --> 01:39:10,360
Speaker 2: lot of money, and Bob Duffy and Evan Cohen and

1842
01:39:10,479 --> 01:39:12,720
Speaker 2: Mutt Cohen. I don't even know how it works. I've

1843
01:39:12,720 --> 01:39:17,479
Speaker 2: never you know, I've never cared enough because I always

1844
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:19,920
Speaker 2: had I was always making money. All I cared about

1845
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:23,439
Speaker 2: was playing shows. So I was never the kind of

1846
01:39:23,439 --> 01:39:27,200
Speaker 2: guy who was nikelaing diming stuff. I mean, I probably

1847
01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:29,080
Speaker 2: had a bad deal because I signed it on the

1848
01:39:29,120 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 2: hood of a Cadillac outside Molly Malone's in la and

1849
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:35,960
Speaker 2: I was like, you'll give me two thousand bucks cash

1850
01:39:36,040 --> 01:39:38,960
Speaker 2: right now if I signed half my publishing away, Because

1851
01:39:38,960 --> 01:39:41,799
Speaker 2: that was how those guys worked back in those days.

1852
01:39:41,840 --> 01:39:46,160
Speaker 2: So yeah, they probably owned part of it. I've never

1853
01:39:46,280 --> 01:39:47,040
Speaker 2: analyzed it.

1854
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:51,760
Speaker 1: So at this point in time, is there still reasonable

1855
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:53,160
Speaker 1: income from you where men for me?

1856
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:58,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? You know what's weird? I still get checks. It's bizarre,

1857
01:39:58,720 --> 01:40:00,920
Speaker 2: like it's not huge, but it it makes me money.

1858
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,760
Speaker 2: And it's pretty cool because it still comes in and

1859
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:08,120
Speaker 2: I'm waiting for it to be used in some movie

1860
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:11,080
Speaker 2: one day, like where Well Ferrell's naked singing it at

1861
01:40:11,160 --> 01:40:12,360
Speaker 2: karaoke or something.

1862
01:40:13,680 --> 01:40:15,360
Speaker 1: Well, I don't want to be your lawyer here, but

1863
01:40:15,439 --> 01:40:18,280
Speaker 1: there's rites of reversion, et cetera. You might be able

1864
01:40:18,280 --> 01:40:21,240
Speaker 1: to get the other half of the publishing back. Really,

1865
01:40:21,280 --> 01:40:23,040
Speaker 1: not that I'm giving Yeah, not that I'm giving you

1866
01:40:23,120 --> 01:40:26,680
Speaker 1: any legal advice. Check with your attorney. I'll leave it

1867
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 1: at that. Okay, So you're married to Sharon today. How

1868
01:40:32,280 --> 01:40:33,559
Speaker 1: many times you've been married?

1869
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:34,880
Speaker 2: Once?

1870
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:38,479
Speaker 1: So how did you meet Sharon?

1871
01:40:38,520 --> 01:40:38,680
Speaker 3: Then?

1872
01:40:38,720 --> 01:40:39,920
Speaker 1: When did you meet Sharon?

1873
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:45,519
Speaker 2: So? I met Sharon she had a hair salon in

1874
01:40:45,680 --> 01:40:50,160
Speaker 2: San Diego, and I went in to get my haircut,

1875
01:40:50,600 --> 01:40:53,160
Speaker 2: and we were both friends with a friend of mine

1876
01:40:53,160 --> 01:40:58,519
Speaker 2: who got murdered, Steve Boge, and so I had come

1877
01:40:58,560 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 2: out of rehab and we would do victims of violent

1878
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:06,880
Speaker 2: crime benefit shows at the Caspo in San Diego and

1879
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:09,760
Speaker 2: we would sing. My friend Steve was in a band

1880
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:14,439
Speaker 2: called CLA that stood for Carnivorous Lunar Activity, and so

1881
01:41:15,360 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 2: we would sing all the Carnivorous Lunar Activities songs and

1882
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:24,040
Speaker 2: I would learn all the parts that Steve wrote, and

1883
01:41:24,120 --> 01:41:27,439
Speaker 2: we had written a song called Hitchhiker Joe together, and

1884
01:41:27,560 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 2: so that was where I met Sharon because she played

1885
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:36,000
Speaker 2: bass in the band, and so we started dating. And

1886
01:41:36,040 --> 01:41:38,760
Speaker 2: she has been really good for me because you know

1887
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:43,120
Speaker 2: how that whole same behind every man, that whole thing,

1888
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:48,400
Speaker 2: and she is organized. So see, I used to make

1889
01:41:48,479 --> 01:41:50,680
Speaker 2: money on the road and I would come off the

1890
01:41:50,760 --> 01:41:53,200
Speaker 2: road with Jewel, and I was making great money because

1891
01:41:53,200 --> 01:41:55,600
Speaker 2: I was opening every show as Rusted Route would go

1892
01:41:55,680 --> 01:41:57,960
Speaker 2: on first, I'd go on in the middle, and then Jewel.

1893
01:41:58,040 --> 01:42:01,640
Speaker 2: We'd play Red Rocks or The Gorge, and I was

1894
01:42:01,720 --> 01:42:04,840
Speaker 2: selling like if we played Royal Albert Hall in London

1895
01:42:04,880 --> 01:42:06,680
Speaker 2: a couple nights in a row, I would sell like

1896
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:11,080
Speaker 2: three fifty four hundred CDs a night. Back in nineteen

1897
01:42:11,200 --> 01:42:15,360
Speaker 2: ninety seven of One Left Shoe this Mercury release, and

1898
01:42:15,400 --> 01:42:17,639
Speaker 2: Bob I had so much money. I would come home.

1899
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:19,760
Speaker 2: I would shove it into suitcases. And I lived at

1900
01:42:19,800 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 2: the beach, would just leave my doors open. I wouldn't

1901
01:42:22,360 --> 01:42:24,240
Speaker 2: even put the money in the bank. I don't know why.

1902
01:42:24,760 --> 01:42:27,559
Speaker 2: So I would have like four hundred grand in my

1903
01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:30,639
Speaker 2: closet and old suitcases. I just shove it in there,

1904
01:42:30,680 --> 01:42:32,680
Speaker 2: come off the road. I lived in a shitty apartment

1905
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:36,240
Speaker 2: and drove an old Ford truck. I never cared about money.

1906
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:38,600
Speaker 2: I didn't need it. I just knew. I bought my

1907
01:42:38,640 --> 01:42:41,719
Speaker 2: clothes at thrift stores. I had my one guitar I needed,

1908
01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:44,040
Speaker 2: and I had an audience. That's what I cared about.

1909
01:42:44,680 --> 01:42:48,479
Speaker 2: So I didn't pay my taxes for like ten or

1910
01:42:48,680 --> 01:42:52,600
Speaker 2: eleven years. And the irs showed up at my apartment

1911
01:42:53,320 --> 01:42:57,000
Speaker 2: and they were outside the door, and I came walking up,

1912
01:42:57,040 --> 01:42:59,200
Speaker 2: and they go, does Steve Poltz live here? It was

1913
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:01,479
Speaker 2: at wind and Sea Beach and La Joya, right across

1914
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:03,719
Speaker 2: from the pump house that Tom Wolfe the pump House

1915
01:43:03,760 --> 01:43:06,760
Speaker 2: came about. And so I said, I don't know who

1916
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:09,840
Speaker 2: you're talking about. I remember I ran as fast as

1917
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:13,880
Speaker 2: I could down the beach and I got away. And

1918
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:16,240
Speaker 2: then I called this guy who was the CFO of

1919
01:43:16,320 --> 01:43:20,040
Speaker 2: the San Diego Padres and he met me. He said,

1920
01:43:20,120 --> 01:43:22,719
Speaker 2: meet me at the tilted Kilt. And the tilt kilt

1921
01:43:22,800 --> 01:43:26,439
Speaker 2: is like a Hooters, but for girls that dress and

1922
01:43:26,520 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 2: plaid skirts and their boobs are pushed together. And so

1923
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:32,320
Speaker 2: that was where the accountant wanted me to meet him,

1924
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:35,320
Speaker 2: at the tilted kilt. I've never forgotten this, So Sharon

1925
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 2: put all my IRRs notices in a brown wrinkled paperbag.

1926
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:41,280
Speaker 2: I'd never opened them, and I show up at the

1927
01:43:41,320 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 2: tilted Kilt with Bob Crozdill, the accountant who's still my accountant.

1928
01:43:46,320 --> 01:43:49,880
Speaker 2: And he opened up each one as he would eat

1929
01:43:49,920 --> 01:43:52,559
Speaker 2: some of his nachos with his other hand, and he

1930
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:55,800
Speaker 2: opened him up and he looked and his face was

1931
01:43:55,880 --> 01:43:58,040
Speaker 2: kind of growing a little more pale with each one.

1932
01:43:58,520 --> 01:44:00,400
Speaker 2: And I remember finally when he was and I go,

1933
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:04,240
Speaker 2: is it bad? Is it bad? Is it bad? And

1934
01:44:04,280 --> 01:44:06,600
Speaker 2: he looks at me and he put his hand on

1935
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:09,599
Speaker 2: top of mine across the table, and he goes, I've

1936
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:13,439
Speaker 2: seen worse. We're going to get through this together. And

1937
01:44:13,520 --> 01:44:17,160
Speaker 2: it made me feel so good. And then everybody said,

1938
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:19,360
Speaker 2: you can make a deal with the irs. They'll make

1939
01:44:19,400 --> 01:44:21,920
Speaker 2: a deal. And the irs said, not only were it

1940
01:44:22,040 --> 01:44:24,439
Speaker 2: not going to make a deal with mister Poltz. He's

1941
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 2: lucky he's not going to jail for willful negligence to

1942
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:29,800
Speaker 2: pay taxes. The next morning, I woke up and the

1943
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,599
Speaker 2: night before I'd had four hundred and fifty thousand dollars

1944
01:44:32,600 --> 01:44:34,960
Speaker 2: in my checking account like an idiot, like not even

1945
01:44:35,000 --> 01:44:39,400
Speaker 2: really earning interest, and it was gone, and I remember thinking,

1946
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:42,400
Speaker 2: they're going to probably take my money, and I thought,

1947
01:44:42,520 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 2: if they take it, I want to kill myself. I

1948
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:45,840
Speaker 2: want to take it out first and give it to

1949
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:48,559
Speaker 2: my niece and nephew. But then once they took the

1950
01:44:48,600 --> 01:44:51,840
Speaker 2: money away, I remember going I felt a sense of

1951
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:55,400
Speaker 2: peace because I paid off my debt to the irs,

1952
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:57,760
Speaker 2: and it was almost as if somebody said, if you

1953
01:44:57,880 --> 01:45:01,000
Speaker 2: give us four hundred and fifty thousand dollar, you will

1954
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:03,639
Speaker 2: have peace of mind. I'd say take it. I'd give

1955
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:06,240
Speaker 2: you anything to have peace of mind. So then I

1956
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:08,599
Speaker 2: just built it all up again, and I still had

1957
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:11,000
Speaker 2: that money in my closet, and I slowly would put

1958
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:13,960
Speaker 2: it into my account, nine nine hundred dollars at a

1959
01:45:14,000 --> 01:45:17,320
Speaker 2: time and get everything going again. I don't know why

1960
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:19,360
Speaker 2: I wasn't putting it in the bank, because it wasn't

1961
01:45:19,439 --> 01:45:23,360
Speaker 2: like it was I was a drug dealer, so yeah,

1962
01:45:23,400 --> 01:45:24,400
Speaker 2: it's pretty crazy.

1963
01:45:25,000 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 1: Well you brought this up, you said, Sharon. Agent organization

1964
01:45:29,120 --> 01:45:29,839
Speaker 1: sit you straight.

1965
01:45:30,360 --> 01:45:32,840
Speaker 2: So Sharon was like, you need to put your money

1966
01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:34,280
Speaker 2: in the bank, you need to put it in a

1967
01:45:34,320 --> 01:45:38,920
Speaker 2: Schwap account, you need to buy some property. And she's

1968
01:45:39,160 --> 01:45:42,800
Speaker 2: really really organized. She got my whole life in order.

1969
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:45,719
Speaker 2: And I remember at the time, by then I'd gotten

1970
01:45:45,720 --> 01:45:49,360
Speaker 2: out of rehab. I got dropped from Mercury Universal Records,

1971
01:45:49,960 --> 01:45:53,240
Speaker 2: I got dropped from CIA. I didn't have an agent.

1972
01:45:53,479 --> 01:45:57,360
Speaker 2: I was booking myself. I was playing gigs. I went

1973
01:45:57,400 --> 01:46:00,960
Speaker 2: from flying private jets with Jewel to being in a

1974
01:46:01,040 --> 01:46:04,400
Speaker 2: Volkswagen van staying in trailer parks. And I remember thinking,

1975
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 2: I did this whole tour where I called it the

1976
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:10,519
Speaker 2: where did it all Go Wrong? Tour. I would play

1977
01:46:10,680 --> 01:46:13,400
Speaker 2: like twenty three people in Iowa, and I would say

1978
01:46:13,400 --> 01:46:16,680
Speaker 2: to the audience, last night I found myself negotiating in

1979
01:46:16,720 --> 01:46:19,439
Speaker 2: a trailer park to get my costs down in my

1980
01:46:19,560 --> 01:46:22,960
Speaker 2: Volkswagen van from forty dollars a night to twenty eight

1981
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:25,080
Speaker 2: dollars a night. And as I popped the top of

1982
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:27,639
Speaker 2: my west Bali at Camper before I went to sleep,

1983
01:46:27,680 --> 01:46:30,080
Speaker 2: I said, where did it all go wrong? And that's

1984
01:46:30,160 --> 01:46:32,479
Speaker 2: what I named the tour, and I thought it was

1985
01:46:32,520 --> 01:46:35,960
Speaker 2: the funniest thing. So I got signed by this guy

1986
01:46:36,040 --> 01:46:38,599
Speaker 2: named Charles Dreby to be my manager. At the time,

1987
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:42,320
Speaker 2: he was managing Blind Boys of Alabama, and it was

1988
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:44,439
Speaker 2: He's still a friend of mine, he's an attorney. But

1989
01:46:44,479 --> 01:46:47,840
Speaker 2: it was the wrong mix because my first posters I

1990
01:46:47,840 --> 01:46:50,960
Speaker 2: sent out was me catching a rock in the air,

1991
01:46:51,000 --> 01:46:53,599
Speaker 2: opposing like I'm catching a rock, but it was blurred

1992
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:55,840
Speaker 2: and I called it the Catch a Falling Turd Tour,

1993
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:58,760
Speaker 2: and Charles Dreby got so mad. He was like, we

1994
01:46:58,840 --> 01:47:01,360
Speaker 2: poked the Blind Boys, but this is not how we

1995
01:47:01,400 --> 01:47:03,720
Speaker 2: want to be represented. And that was a three year

1996
01:47:03,880 --> 01:47:06,280
Speaker 2: management deal. I was so glad when it was over,

1997
01:47:07,000 --> 01:47:11,320
Speaker 2: and then I ended up getting finally got a booking

1998
01:47:11,320 --> 01:47:14,599
Speaker 2: agent again, and man, I'm still with him to this day.

1999
01:47:14,880 --> 01:47:18,120
Speaker 2: And I have the best manager, a nice Jewish boy

2000
01:47:18,200 --> 01:47:22,280
Speaker 2: named philine Son with seven S Management out of Denver.

2001
01:47:22,439 --> 01:47:25,599
Speaker 2: I love my manager, phil line Son, and I love

2002
01:47:25,680 --> 01:47:29,320
Speaker 2: my booking agent, Adam Bauer. He's with Madison House. He

2003
01:47:29,520 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 2: was with Fleming Artists and took me with him when

2004
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:33,960
Speaker 2: he went to Madison house, and I say this to

2005
01:47:34,040 --> 01:47:37,599
Speaker 2: this day. I would not take any other agent. Anybody

2006
01:47:37,960 --> 01:47:40,200
Speaker 2: could come with me with any offer about anything, or

2007
01:47:40,240 --> 01:47:42,760
Speaker 2: another manager told me promised me in the world. I

2008
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:46,320
Speaker 2: would not leave either of these guys because they took

2009
01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:49,759
Speaker 2: me in like a rescue dog. Adam Bauer saw something

2010
01:47:49,800 --> 01:47:52,240
Speaker 2: in me and has slowly built me up. I'll be

2011
01:47:52,240 --> 01:47:54,840
Speaker 2: playing Newport Folk Fest this year. I play all these

2012
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:58,760
Speaker 2: great festivals. I tour everywhere, and I'm so loyal to

2013
01:47:58,800 --> 01:48:01,880
Speaker 2: that guy. I want him to make money and I

2014
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:04,800
Speaker 2: want my manager, Phill to make money, like I would

2015
01:48:04,880 --> 01:48:07,360
Speaker 2: do anything for these guys. And we're the smallest team.

2016
01:48:07,680 --> 01:48:13,400
Speaker 2: Sharon books all the travel and we're Marriotts. We always

2017
01:48:13,400 --> 01:48:17,000
Speaker 2: stay Marriotts. Sharon has a sewed down We're special, like

2018
01:48:17,040 --> 01:48:21,000
Speaker 2: they have Titanium Platinum where this special top level called

2019
01:48:21,120 --> 01:48:24,400
Speaker 2: Ambassador Elite. And it's so funny because they have a

2020
01:48:24,439 --> 01:48:26,840
Speaker 2: special carpet you stand on when you stay at really

2021
01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:29,599
Speaker 2: nice places like we are here in Sydney, Australia at

2022
01:48:29,640 --> 01:48:32,879
Speaker 2: the Hyde Park And whenever I stand there, there's businessmen

2023
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:35,240
Speaker 2: behind me and they always go, excuse me, sir, you're

2024
01:48:35,240 --> 01:48:36,880
Speaker 2: supposed to be over there, yes, And they go to

2025
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:38,680
Speaker 2: the business time behind. I go, no, this is a

2026
01:48:38,680 --> 01:48:41,439
Speaker 2: line for me because the way I look, and they go,

2027
01:48:41,840 --> 01:48:45,000
Speaker 2: this is ambassador Elite. I go, yeah, I'm Ambassador Elite

2028
01:48:45,120 --> 01:48:47,400
Speaker 2: and they go, oh, I'm sorry, and they just look

2029
01:48:47,560 --> 01:48:51,839
Speaker 2: really weird, and I'm Ambassador Elite. I get upgrades to suites.

2030
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:56,800
Speaker 2: And my manager always gets me the best deals of

2031
01:48:56,880 --> 01:49:00,240
Speaker 2: playing gigs, like gets my offers up and my booking

2032
01:49:00,280 --> 01:49:03,000
Speaker 2: agent does too. They work in tandem and we're just small,

2033
01:49:03,560 --> 01:49:06,200
Speaker 2: bare bones operation and we make a great living.

2034
01:49:07,720 --> 01:49:09,640
Speaker 1: Okay to sharing. Always go on the road with you.

2035
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:14,800
Speaker 2: She's with me almost always, and she doesn't always come

2036
01:49:14,840 --> 01:49:17,760
Speaker 2: to the shows. She'll stand and we'll get somebody else

2037
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:21,120
Speaker 2: to sell merch. But she gets up in the morning.

2038
01:49:21,200 --> 01:49:24,920
Speaker 2: She packs us. She's highly organized. Make sure we get

2039
01:49:24,960 --> 01:49:27,800
Speaker 2: to the airport on time. Make sure we're getting all

2040
01:49:27,800 --> 01:49:34,040
Speaker 2: our points for national executive car rental the best and

2041
01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:38,719
Speaker 2: getting good places to stay. If I do the Chaamo cruise,

2042
01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:43,200
Speaker 2: she gets us packed for that. Make sure my passports

2043
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:47,479
Speaker 2: don't expire ab a Canadian passport in a United States passport. Everything,

2044
01:49:47,560 --> 01:49:51,280
Speaker 2: So she's the organized side of that. And Phil Einson

2045
01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:55,040
Speaker 2: with seven s, my manager. He looks at the bigger

2046
01:49:55,120 --> 01:49:58,519
Speaker 2: picture of things, and Adam is the booking agent, because

2047
01:49:58,520 --> 01:50:00,600
Speaker 2: you really need a good agent and you need a

2048
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:01,600
Speaker 2: good manager. As you know.

2049
01:50:02,840 --> 01:50:04,439
Speaker 1: Okay, you don't have any children, right.

2050
01:50:05,240 --> 01:50:11,599
Speaker 2: We have a son, Neil, who is twenty nine years old,

2051
01:50:11,640 --> 01:50:15,400
Speaker 2: but he's from her prior husband.

2052
01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:19,280
Speaker 1: How do you end up moving to Nashville?

2053
01:50:20,080 --> 01:50:29,080
Speaker 2: So I left San Diego eight years ago. Sharon wanted

2054
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:33,040
Speaker 2: to move. She sold her hair salon, and she thought

2055
01:50:33,160 --> 01:50:36,559
Speaker 2: we should go to Nashville because she saw everybody living

2056
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:40,479
Speaker 2: there and every time we play festivals, people would be there.

2057
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:44,120
Speaker 2: So we moved to Nashville and bought a house. I

2058
01:50:44,200 --> 01:50:46,840
Speaker 2: never wanted to own a house, and Sharon said, you

2059
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:49,040
Speaker 2: really need to own a house, and she's always owned

2060
01:50:49,120 --> 01:50:52,200
Speaker 2: real estate. So we bought a house together eight years ago,

2061
01:50:52,240 --> 01:50:54,720
Speaker 2: which was the best move ever. Like, Sharon has been

2062
01:50:54,800 --> 01:50:58,280
Speaker 2: so good for me. Now I'm a homeowner. My money

2063
01:50:58,320 --> 01:51:01,840
Speaker 2: is in a Charles Schwab account and I could retire,

2064
01:51:02,640 --> 01:51:05,599
Speaker 2: and so she said, you need to be in Nashville.

2065
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:07,280
Speaker 2: So that's how I ended up writing songs with like

2066
01:51:07,320 --> 01:51:14,320
Speaker 2: Billy Strings and Molly Tuttle and Oliver Wood. Everywhere I

2067
01:51:14,360 --> 01:51:17,120
Speaker 2: go at Sierra Hall, there's all these friends of mine

2068
01:51:17,120 --> 01:51:20,439
Speaker 2: that are songwriters, and just being in that area, crumbs

2069
01:51:20,479 --> 01:51:24,080
Speaker 2: will fall on your plate just from being there. It's

2070
01:51:24,160 --> 01:51:26,960
Speaker 2: just it's such a great vibrant city to live in.

2071
01:51:27,760 --> 01:51:30,479
Speaker 2: I'd always been in San Diego and said to come

2072
01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 2: to Nashville's I think the only place I would live

2073
01:51:34,040 --> 01:51:37,000
Speaker 2: other than Nashville would be Los Angeles, and that might

2074
01:51:37,040 --> 01:51:40,040
Speaker 2: be our next move because I miss California so much.

2075
01:51:41,280 --> 01:51:42,679
Speaker 1: Tell us about your heart attack.

2076
01:51:43,840 --> 01:51:47,439
Speaker 2: Well, I had a stroke, is what it was. Right

2077
01:51:49,200 --> 01:51:53,000
Speaker 2: about nine years ago. I was on stage at World

2078
01:51:53,040 --> 01:51:58,040
Speaker 2: Cafe Live in Wilmington, Delaware, and I went blind in

2079
01:51:58,120 --> 01:52:00,880
Speaker 2: the middle of my show, and I thought they had

2080
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:05,479
Speaker 2: turned the lights out, but it was I couldn't see,

2081
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:07,640
Speaker 2: and I didn't tell the audience because I didn't want

2082
01:52:07,680 --> 01:52:10,639
Speaker 2: to upset them. But I was singing the same verse

2083
01:52:10,840 --> 01:52:14,400
Speaker 2: over and over to an old Rugburn song called single Life.

2084
01:52:14,920 --> 01:52:19,719
Speaker 2: So I played single Life over and over and over,

2085
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:22,759
Speaker 2: and then people were looking at me like this guy's

2086
01:52:23,200 --> 01:52:24,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what's happened to him. They thought I

2087
01:52:24,640 --> 01:52:26,040
Speaker 2: was taking the piss out of him, and the way

2088
01:52:26,080 --> 01:52:29,040
Speaker 2: Andy Kaufman might like, just to see how long I

2089
01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:31,920
Speaker 2: could keep a bit going. But it wasn't that, And

2090
01:52:32,040 --> 01:52:35,519
Speaker 2: so I got rushed to the hospital and if you

2091
01:52:35,520 --> 01:52:37,120
Speaker 2: ever want to get to the front of the line,

2092
01:52:37,320 --> 01:52:39,479
Speaker 2: tell them you've gone blind. And it's like a curtain

2093
01:52:39,560 --> 01:52:42,240
Speaker 2: coming down. They fast track you ahead of the guy

2094
01:52:42,240 --> 01:52:43,920
Speaker 2: with the ice pick in the side of his head

2095
01:52:43,960 --> 01:52:47,160
Speaker 2: and everybody else. And so they did these tests, and

2096
01:52:47,400 --> 01:52:51,160
Speaker 2: I've never forgot the lady. She was from India, doctor Mody,

2097
01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:53,679
Speaker 2: I think was her name, and she said, mister Poltz,

2098
01:52:53,720 --> 01:52:56,000
Speaker 2: you've had a stroke. You're going into the stroke woard.

2099
01:52:56,040 --> 01:52:58,439
Speaker 2: And I couldn't see and then my vision came back,

2100
01:52:58,760 --> 01:53:00,760
Speaker 2: and when it came back, I couldn't read, like the

2101
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:04,360
Speaker 2: letters didn't make sense to me. And it took a

2102
01:53:04,400 --> 01:53:07,120
Speaker 2: couple of weeks and then everything started getting back in order.

2103
01:53:07,120 --> 01:53:09,240
Speaker 2: But I didn't want to drive for a few months.

2104
01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:11,599
Speaker 2: And I remember Sharon was like, you're going to drive again,

2105
01:53:11,720 --> 01:53:13,519
Speaker 2: and she pulled the car over and made me drive,

2106
01:53:14,120 --> 01:53:18,639
Speaker 2: kickstarted me. And I recuperated from that stroke and went

2107
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:21,439
Speaker 2: back out on the road. And they don't know why

2108
01:53:21,520 --> 01:53:25,600
Speaker 2: it happened, because I'm pretty healthy, but things happened.

2109
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,720
Speaker 1: And no after effects whatsoever.

2110
01:53:30,439 --> 01:53:34,720
Speaker 2: No, I've been really lucky, really lucky. I hope. You

2111
01:53:34,760 --> 01:53:37,200
Speaker 2: know that. Doctor told me he didn't know why it happened,

2112
01:53:37,200 --> 01:53:39,040
Speaker 2: but he said, the next time it does, it'll probably

2113
01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:41,280
Speaker 2: kill you. I remember because the other night I was

2114
01:53:41,320 --> 01:53:43,439
Speaker 2: on tour and I was in the United States, and

2115
01:53:43,479 --> 01:53:45,639
Speaker 2: I did fifteen shows with a good friend of mine

2116
01:53:45,680 --> 01:53:47,360
Speaker 2: named Paul Thorne. Do you know Paul.

2117
01:53:48,240 --> 01:53:50,000
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't know him personally, but I've seen him.

2118
01:53:50,040 --> 01:53:50,680
Speaker 1: I know who he is.

2119
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:53,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he's a He was a boxer and he

2120
01:53:53,760 --> 01:53:57,479
Speaker 2: lives in tup Blow, Mississippi, and he fought roberted around.

2121
01:53:57,479 --> 01:54:00,080
Speaker 2: We did a tour. It's really fun today because if

2122
01:54:00,080 --> 01:54:02,400
Speaker 2: you're a solo artist, you can do tours with people

2123
01:54:02,439 --> 01:54:05,880
Speaker 2: where you're on stage and trade songs. We discovered each

2124
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:09,120
Speaker 2: other on Komo Cruise. We played in the theater and

2125
01:54:09,160 --> 01:54:11,280
Speaker 2: we realized we had a good vibe together because I'm

2126
01:54:11,360 --> 01:54:15,080
Speaker 2: kind of so cal and he's really Southern Mississippi kind

2127
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:19,000
Speaker 2: of guy. And so we were on stage together and

2128
01:54:19,080 --> 01:54:23,080
Speaker 2: playing all these shows. And I just finished that tour

2129
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:26,800
Speaker 2: and then came to Australia and I thought I was

2130
01:54:26,840 --> 01:54:29,320
Speaker 2: having a heart attack on that last tour and I

2131
01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:31,680
Speaker 2: missed a show because I had chest pains and it

2132
01:54:31,720 --> 01:54:35,120
Speaker 2: freaked me out, and I never I'm not a hypochondriac,

2133
01:54:35,240 --> 01:54:37,600
Speaker 2: Like I never go to the doctor. I should. I

2134
01:54:37,640 --> 01:54:39,400
Speaker 2: read your letter and you're always telling us we need

2135
01:54:39,400 --> 01:54:40,880
Speaker 2: to go to the doctor. I do get my teeth

2136
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:44,400
Speaker 2: cleaned every three months. I and your letter is making

2137
01:54:44,400 --> 01:54:46,360
Speaker 2: me go I need to And I love it when

2138
01:54:46,360 --> 01:54:49,360
Speaker 2: you say that in your letter. It's really important. And

2139
01:54:49,440 --> 01:54:52,560
Speaker 2: so I was on stage and I got chess pains

2140
01:54:53,280 --> 01:54:55,680
Speaker 2: and I didn't know what it was and I didn't

2141
01:54:55,680 --> 01:54:57,640
Speaker 2: tell Paul, and I went to the room that night

2142
01:54:57,680 --> 01:55:01,120
Speaker 2: and it got worse than at two am, googling chest

2143
01:55:01,120 --> 01:55:05,360
Speaker 2: pains and a nausea, and it said, immediately call an ambulance.

2144
01:55:05,440 --> 01:55:07,800
Speaker 2: But I had a showing at the Vogel and Red Bank,

2145
01:55:07,840 --> 01:55:10,320
Speaker 2: New Jersey the next day. My buddy Mojo Nixon had

2146
01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:12,840
Speaker 2: just died of a heart attack. So I thought, I

2147
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:15,160
Speaker 2: wonder if I'm having a heart attack Mojo just died,

2148
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:21,120
Speaker 2: And instead I called an Uber like an idiot, and

2149
01:55:21,160 --> 01:55:24,800
Speaker 2: I'd got this uber and that uber driver was from Iraq.

2150
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:27,040
Speaker 2: He was from Baghdad, and as we were driving there,

2151
01:55:27,040 --> 01:55:28,640
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm gonna die in the uber because it

2152
01:55:28,720 --> 01:55:31,640
Speaker 2: got worse than chest pains. This was just two weeks ago.

2153
01:55:32,240 --> 01:55:34,720
Speaker 2: And my last thing I said to the uber driver

2154
01:55:34,880 --> 01:55:39,280
Speaker 2: was I'm sorry we bombed you guys. I was apologizing,

2155
01:55:39,600 --> 01:55:42,600
Speaker 2: and then we pull up to the emergency room. He goes,

2156
01:55:42,640 --> 01:55:44,440
Speaker 2: are you sick? And I didn't want to upset them,

2157
01:55:44,440 --> 01:55:47,560
Speaker 2: so I said no, I'm just visiting someone here, and

2158
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:49,760
Speaker 2: so I got out and they fast tracked me because

2159
01:55:49,760 --> 01:55:53,440
Speaker 2: I told him I was having chest pains, and they said,

2160
01:55:53,440 --> 01:55:55,080
Speaker 2: do you have heart disease in your family? And I

2161
01:55:55,120 --> 01:55:58,760
Speaker 2: said no, and then he goes, you don't have any

2162
01:55:58,760 --> 01:56:00,200
Speaker 2: and I said no, And I said, well, my mom

2163
01:56:00,280 --> 01:56:03,360
Speaker 2: had a heart attack, and he said, well that's heart disease.

2164
01:56:03,720 --> 01:56:05,200
Speaker 2: And he goes how old was she when she had

2165
01:56:05,240 --> 01:56:06,800
Speaker 2: I go sixty four. He goes how old are you?

2166
01:56:06,880 --> 01:56:09,320
Speaker 2: I go sixty four, and then he goes, is your

2167
01:56:09,320 --> 01:56:11,160
Speaker 2: mom still allowed to go No, she died of heart

2168
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:14,160
Speaker 2: failure at the age of eighty eight. He goes, anybody

2169
01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:14,840
Speaker 2: else in your family?

2170
01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:15,200
Speaker 3: I go no.

2171
01:56:15,320 --> 01:56:15,680
Speaker 2: I go oh.

2172
01:56:15,720 --> 01:56:15,920
Speaker 4: Wait.

2173
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:18,440
Speaker 2: Her younger brother died of a massive heart attack at

2174
01:56:18,480 --> 01:56:21,080
Speaker 2: forty four, and then Uncle Louis died as well of

2175
01:56:21,080 --> 01:56:23,720
Speaker 2: heart failure, and so didn't at her sister, aunt Sylvia,

2176
01:56:23,760 --> 01:56:26,120
Speaker 2: and the guy's like what part of heart disease in

2177
01:56:26,160 --> 01:56:29,560
Speaker 2: your family? Don't you understand? So they did the treadmill

2178
01:56:29,600 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 2: stress test on me, and he goes, I can't get

2179
01:56:33,240 --> 01:56:35,560
Speaker 2: your heart beat up. Even if you're in great shape.

2180
01:56:35,600 --> 01:56:37,640
Speaker 2: Your recovery time's great. They did the photos. He goes,

2181
01:56:37,680 --> 01:56:40,200
Speaker 2: you have a really healthy heart. What do you do?

2182
01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:42,600
Speaker 2: And I said, I dance around on stage every night

2183
01:56:42,680 --> 01:56:47,240
Speaker 2: because I don't sit. I'm running around stage. And he said, well,

2184
01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:49,880
Speaker 2: your heart looks good. What did you eat for dinner?

2185
01:56:50,280 --> 01:56:51,960
Speaker 2: And I said, I don't like to read the menu

2186
01:56:52,080 --> 01:56:54,360
Speaker 2: because I have add and I just like, I don't

2187
01:56:54,360 --> 01:56:56,600
Speaker 2: like to think about it. I'm in a hurry, so

2188
01:56:56,680 --> 01:56:58,880
Speaker 2: I just let the waitress decide for me, and she

2189
01:56:59,040 --> 01:57:02,480
Speaker 2: suggested it She's burger with deep bread pickles and hot sauce.

2190
01:57:02,960 --> 01:57:04,840
Speaker 2: He said, have you ever had heartburn before? And I

2191
01:57:04,840 --> 01:57:07,120
Speaker 2: said no. Back once I ate four bites of that

2192
01:57:07,360 --> 01:57:10,360
Speaker 2: deep bread pickles, it really affected me, and he said

2193
01:57:10,360 --> 01:57:14,160
Speaker 2: it mimics a heart attack. And I had chest pains

2194
01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:16,560
Speaker 2: for like four days after that, but now I feel great.

2195
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:18,760
Speaker 2: So I'm back up and hat.

2196
01:57:18,920 --> 01:57:21,920
Speaker 1: Well, you know, here's my warning if you have heart

2197
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:25,800
Speaker 1: disease in your family. There's a million other tests they

2198
01:57:25,880 --> 01:57:29,680
Speaker 1: need to do besides treadmill tests itself is not that accurate,

2199
01:57:29,680 --> 01:57:33,520
Speaker 1: but usually it's false positives. Do not think that you

2200
01:57:34,120 --> 01:57:38,040
Speaker 1: get a path. You have to get the carotid artery scan.

2201
01:57:38,640 --> 01:57:42,600
Speaker 1: You gotta get all the stuff because listen, I have

2202
01:57:42,680 --> 01:57:44,760
Speaker 1: one of my close friends, his father died of a

2203
01:57:44,760 --> 01:57:47,440
Speaker 1: heart attack at sixty seven, said, oh yeah, I went

2204
01:57:47,480 --> 01:57:50,120
Speaker 1: to the regular doctor. He fell over with a heart

2205
01:57:50,120 --> 01:57:53,040
Speaker 1: attack at sixty seven. Oh yeah, I was totally healthy.

2206
01:57:53,440 --> 01:57:55,760
Speaker 1: And then that's it. I mean, I see this special

2207
01:57:55,800 --> 01:58:00,880
Speaker 1: heart doctor, which I would recommend to you because with

2208
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:03,920
Speaker 1: that amount of heart disease in your family. You know,

2209
01:58:03,960 --> 01:58:05,840
Speaker 1: the guy in the er, you know, it's good that

2210
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:08,520
Speaker 1: he you know, don't take that as a complete pass,

2211
01:58:08,600 --> 01:58:11,640
Speaker 1: even though your symptoms may have been because of the

2212
01:58:11,640 --> 01:58:15,960
Speaker 1: deep right pickle. It's like you have no idea what's

2213
01:58:16,000 --> 01:58:19,560
Speaker 1: going on. Everybody thinks they're cool, and it just like

2214
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:26,120
Speaker 1: Russ never sleeps, Calcium never sleeps. But changing subjects completely.

2215
01:58:26,760 --> 01:58:32,160
Speaker 1: Speaking of the dearly departed Mojo Nixon, you know, he

2216
01:58:32,360 --> 01:58:35,320
Speaker 1: had somewhat of a record career and then he had

2217
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:39,800
Speaker 1: a giant career as a personality. He was on outlaw country,

2218
01:58:39,840 --> 01:58:44,520
Speaker 1: on serious XM. You have a lot of personality, You

2219
01:58:44,640 --> 01:58:49,440
Speaker 1: tell a great story. Have people ever offered you similar opportunities?

2220
01:58:50,360 --> 01:58:54,200
Speaker 2: People keep telling me to start a podcast, write a book,

2221
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:59,120
Speaker 2: and I'll see what happens. You know, you never know.

2222
01:59:00,520 --> 01:59:03,760
Speaker 1: Well, I'm actually talking about something different. I'm talking about

2223
01:59:03,800 --> 01:59:07,280
Speaker 1: you're sitting there and reading a book. Whatever, Jered you

2224
01:59:07,320 --> 01:59:09,080
Speaker 1: have to get an email out of the blue. Hey,

2225
01:59:09,120 --> 01:59:11,920
Speaker 1: I'm aware of you. You'd be good for me on

2226
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:15,680
Speaker 1: X on the radio, on TV. God knows what. That

2227
01:59:15,800 --> 01:59:20,760
Speaker 1: never happened to you. No, well, I'm surprised. I mean,

2228
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:23,400
Speaker 1: I don't want to put too much faith in the

2229
01:59:23,840 --> 01:59:26,960
Speaker 1: uh you know, and the people who might make decisions.

2230
01:59:27,480 --> 01:59:32,280
Speaker 1: But you're certainly a man of a lot of personality,

2231
01:59:32,920 --> 01:59:38,040
Speaker 1: riveting stories, and a unique outlook. And Steve, I want

2232
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:40,280
Speaker 1: to thank you so much for taking this time to

2233
01:59:40,280 --> 01:59:41,680
Speaker 1: speak with me and my audience.

2234
01:59:42,400 --> 01:59:44,720
Speaker 2: Thank you. Bob. I'm a huge fan of yours, so

2235
01:59:44,960 --> 01:59:47,040
Speaker 2: it's a pleasure to be on your show.

2236
01:59:47,920 --> 01:59:49,840
Speaker 1: And it's always great to see you in mine in

2237
01:59:49,880 --> 02:00:08,480
Speaker 1: the box. Till next time. This is Bob left sets

2238
02:00:00,440 --> 02:00:15,720
Speaker 1: sh