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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're discussing why you should be saving less

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Speaker 1: and just keep buying with Nick m Julie. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Our guest today is Nick m Julie UH and Nick

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Speaker 1: he's the chief operating officer for Rienholtz Wealth Management. He

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Speaker 1: writes weekly on a site of dollars in data. But

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Speaker 1: he wasn't always a finance UH and investing savant. Before that,

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Speaker 1: he was a litigation consultant, which honestly doesn't even seem fair.

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Speaker 1: Some folks just get all of the brains. But even

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Speaker 1: though Nick he's had a heart for personal finance, it's

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Speaker 1: only been in the past five years or so that

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Speaker 1: he actually started seriously writing about money. And his new book,

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Speaker 1: Just Keep Buying It actually comes out tomorrow. We were

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Speaker 1: lucky enough to get an early copy and it is fantastic. Nick.

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Speaker 1: We'se insightful stories with actionable advice that is gonna it's

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Speaker 1: gonna help anyone who reads it. We can guarantee that

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Speaker 1: we're excited to talk about the book much more today. Nick,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today on the podcast. Appreciate

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Speaker 1: that man. Thanks Joel for having me on. Yeah, we're

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Speaker 1: glad to have you Nick, And yeah, we've been reading

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Speaker 1: your block for a couple of years now at least,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's definitely one of those that we go

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Speaker 1: back to every single Tuesday when it drops. Um. So

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Speaker 1: the first question that we ask anybody who comes on

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Speaker 1: the show is, you know, Matt and I we like

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Speaker 1: to drink craft beer. Everybody knows that by now, but

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Speaker 1: it's something that we splurge on right now while we're

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Speaker 1: saving for the future and investing. Well, um, do you

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Speaker 1: have something like that? What do you like to splurge on?

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Speaker 1: I know you live in New York City. Is it

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Speaker 1: just trying to find the best burger every week? Or

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Speaker 1: what's your big splurge. I think my splurges restaurants, Like

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Speaker 1: I like going to nice restaurant. It is burgers. It's

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Speaker 1: more like dry age rib. I Like, that's really my splurge,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I'm I'm a little more fancy on

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Speaker 1: that bar. But yeah, outside of that, like I'll admit

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Speaker 1: I'm a little bougie when it comes to restaurants, Like

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Speaker 1: I I'll buy like eight dollar you know, v Nex

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Speaker 1: from Amazon. But then if I go to a nice restaurant, Like,

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Speaker 1: I have no problem you know, spending spending good money there,

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Speaker 1: especially post COVID, Like I really support the rest of history.

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Speaker 1: So do you feel like you're missing out on that

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Speaker 1: splurge during COVID? Obviously a lot of restaurants in New

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Speaker 1: York were able to kind of do the outdoor service,

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Speaker 1: but there's only so many months that you can do

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Speaker 1: that without freezing your tail off. Yeah, I mean that

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons people live here is for like

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Speaker 1: that's like, you know why. It's like I used to cook,

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Speaker 1: so I cooked a lot basically, you know, and the

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons I live here is because, like

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Speaker 1: you know, I could cook, but I just it's not

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Speaker 1: going to compare to the chefs and all the people

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Speaker 1: that are cooking here. They're just so much better at it.

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Speaker 1: It's like, why would I do that when I like food.

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Speaker 1: I'm a big foodie. So for me, it's like I'd

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Speaker 1: rather just go to restaurants. So yeah, it was not

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Speaker 1: the greatest during that period, but you know, and just

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Speaker 1: cook for myself and kind of went from there. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: if if you give Nick a follow on Instagram, you

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Speaker 1: can see his occasional plate of whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: he's eating. Usually jealous and I see the post see

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Speaker 1: at the different restaurants. But obviously you also post a

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Speaker 1: lot about money, and that's what we're talking about today,

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Speaker 1: Nick Um and specifically, you know, you begin the new

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Speaker 1: book talking about your your grandfather, your grandpa who was

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Speaker 1: addicted to gambling. Can you talk about that something like

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Speaker 1: was was that one of your earliest money memories? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And so I don't like remember him like I actually

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Speaker 1: never remember seeing him like in the casino or anything

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Speaker 1: like that. I was very young, but we um he

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Speaker 1: would do that, and I've heard stories from my father.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot it's a lot worse than what I

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Speaker 1: painted it out to be, like stuff where like he

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Speaker 1: would like after he ran the money. I heard he

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Speaker 1: used to like beg people at the casinos for more money.

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Speaker 1: Just really just it's he had a he had a sickness,

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Speaker 1: he really did, and it was it's unfortunate, you know,

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Speaker 1: to to know that. And you know, he was a

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Speaker 1: very good man. He was. He was a churchgoer, love,

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Speaker 1: you know, very religious and everything. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: like he had his he had his demons, and I

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Speaker 1: was gambling unfortunately. But um I really saw it. I

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Speaker 1: mean we would we go to the you know, I

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Speaker 1: was a child go to horse races and stuff, and

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Speaker 1: so that was me. I was. I like, because I

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Speaker 1: was seeing a little horses runner. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: it was all about gambling and money or any that, right.

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Speaker 1: But so for me, most of those memories I just

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Speaker 1: enjoyed because I was with my father r and like

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Speaker 1: we would go to the county, the Pomona County Fair

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Speaker 1: right in southern California, and or the l A County Fair.

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Speaker 1: Sorry it's some Pomona and we would just wash the

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Speaker 1: horse races. In my grandfather they will be gambling or whatever.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think anything of it, you know at the time.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, he just gambled like his whole life. And

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Speaker 1: like I said, I calculated it. When you see in

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Speaker 1: the book, it's a lot of money that he gave away, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, my father and I sat down, like he's

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Speaker 1: gambling easily, over a million bucks easily, And it's kind

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Speaker 1: of crazy to think about that. I understand that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of money in itself, but like just thinking about

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Speaker 1: what that could have done for, you know, whither our

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Speaker 1: family or for he could have donated some of that whatever.

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Speaker 1: It was, like, there's just a lot of money that

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Speaker 1: was you know, it was just spend frivolously in my opinion, Right,

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Speaker 1: do you do you feel like that that had an

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Speaker 1: impact on you, like kind of in your earlier years

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Speaker 1: and and certainly you know, I think kind of like

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Speaker 1: our teen years is when we start to develop opinions

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Speaker 1: and realize things about our past that start to shape us.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you feel like that had an impact

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Speaker 1: on you as you begin to grow up? Yeah, Like,

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Speaker 1: I never I never gamble. I've never gambled a single dollar.

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Speaker 1: Like in my life. The only thing I've ever done

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Speaker 1: is like I've done like poker game with my friends

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Speaker 1: or something. But that's more like for the soul, paying

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Speaker 1: the fifty bucks is like a social thing. It's not

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Speaker 1: like I look at losing the money. I'm not like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm gonna come out of here and

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Speaker 1: make I just take it as an l and just

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Speaker 1: go in there and have fun. So um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think it affects just how you think about money

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Speaker 1: and you realize like and then once once I started

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Speaker 1: learning probability, and like, oh you know when you're gambling,

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Speaker 1: there's a negative what we call expected value, like you're

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Speaker 1: expected to lose money per play on average over the

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Speaker 1: course of your lifetime. Right, So once you learn that,

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Speaker 1: then you're like, oh, no, wonder, like this is how

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Speaker 1: all these fancy casinos were built, you know. And I

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Speaker 1: really love Vegas as a kid because if you're in

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Speaker 1: southern California and you don't have a lot of money,

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Speaker 1: your vacation is you go to Vegas. Right. It's a

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Speaker 1: four hour drive, you do it, and that's like your vacation. Right.

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Speaker 1: So I used to go to Vegas. Line is love that,

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Speaker 1: you know. I was a little kid. I wasn't gambling

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Speaker 1: or anything. I was like just love the lights and

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Speaker 1: the casinos and how fun. It wasn't very family oriented

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Speaker 1: in the early nineties, so um for me, it was

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Speaker 1: like that's where we went a lot. And so I

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Speaker 1: love that stuff. And now I know what how those

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Speaker 1: casinos got built, you know, people like my grandfather gambling. Unfortunately. Well,

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Speaker 1: thank thanks for sharing that, and yeah it does kind

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Speaker 1: of it sets up your book in an interesting way.

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Speaker 1: And but the main topic in your book you're really

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Speaker 1: that you're really trying to combat, is that you know,

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Speaker 1: when when you buy matters. We're talking about investing, right,

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Speaker 1: and so, um, we were joking before we started recording

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Speaker 1: that I don't think anybody has like spilled more ink

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the topic of buying the dip

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Speaker 1: than you Nick on your blog. Um. But yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about like kind of timing the market a little

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Speaker 1: bit and and why is why is that something like

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Speaker 1: if you go on personal finance Twitter, you're gonna see

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Speaker 1: a lot of people like, you know, the markets down

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Speaker 1: two percent today by the dip, and you kind of

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Speaker 1: think that that's just um nonsense. So yeah, tell us,

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Speaker 1: tell us why you're kind of against that mentality. I

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Speaker 1: think the whole issue is buying the dip. And I

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Speaker 1: mean this this is I mean you're discussing the book

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Speaker 1: I've written on this is basically like, if you have

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Speaker 1: cash to buy the dip, that means you were you

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Speaker 1: had all this excess like investable cash that is right

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Speaker 1: sitting on the sidelines, not earning you anything, and you're

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Speaker 1: waiting for this dip to happen. No, two percent dips

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Speaker 1: are small to happen all the time, you know, so

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Speaker 1: that's nothing major. But most of the time as you're

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Speaker 1: waiting for this dip, and if it never shows up,

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Speaker 1: you end up sitting in cash for a very long time. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think it's more of like the by

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Speaker 1: the dip movement is more of like a cultural thing

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Speaker 1: in an actual great investment strategy. I think it's funny

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Speaker 1: um itself. But I mean, if you're sitting I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: if you're sitting a lot of cash, I'm waiting for

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Speaker 1: the next big tempercent dip. Statistically, by the time that

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Speaker 1: dip comes, you're gonna be buying higher than when you

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Speaker 1: bought when you could have bought originally. And I think

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Speaker 1: a good example of this is I remember I was writing,

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Speaker 1: you know when I wrote, I actually wrote a post

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Speaker 1: called just keep Buying. You know, it's literally gonna come out,

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Speaker 1: so five years to the day of when I wrote

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Speaker 1: that post in April, five years later, the book comes

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Speaker 1: out very ironic, right, It just because perfect It's funny

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Speaker 1: because the book was that my book is actually was

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Speaker 1: coming in February, but because the supply chain crisis, there

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Speaker 1: was on paper all the stuff that happened. You so

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Speaker 1: has kind of all that stuff you got affected everything

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Speaker 1: because of that. It got pushed two months and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's weird. And then I looked I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: that's the exact same day, like perfect, Yeah, that's wild.

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Speaker 1: Your books all the ever, given it was probably stuck

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Speaker 1: on that. Yeah. Um So basically, like I wrote that

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Speaker 1: five years ago, and people then were like, markets are

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Speaker 1: over value, this is crazy. You can't be buying since then,

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Speaker 1: the markets up has double basics, right, And even if

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Speaker 1: you're the craziest part, even if you had the foresight

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Speaker 1: to know, hey, mar is gonna be the biggest dip

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Speaker 1: we've had in the last you know, decade, I'm gonna wait.

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Speaker 1: So even if you had waited since I wrote that post,

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Speaker 1: you know, or beginning of twenty seventeen, and you had

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Speaker 1: waited until March and you had bought, then you still

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Speaker 1: would have purchased at a seven percent higher price on

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Speaker 1: the lowest day during the biggest crash we've had in

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Speaker 1: the last decade than if you had just bought at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of seventeen, like I originally said. So, of

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Speaker 1: course that's not always gonna happen, right, If you had

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Speaker 1: bought in twenty nineteen, you would have been better to wait.

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Speaker 1: But you're not gonna know when the bottom is. You're

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Speaker 1: not going to know how Like this is a ridiculous

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Speaker 1: Like I'm already setting up the premise as being a

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Speaker 1: ridiculous you know, a statement in itself right, And the

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Speaker 1: fact it's like if you knew the future, Like, if

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Speaker 1: you knew the future, you would have like underperformed. It

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Speaker 1: would have been suboptimal to wait that long. You could

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Speaker 1: have just bought earlier. You know, So if you knew

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Speaker 1: the future, you wouldn't have bought that final Combrady touchdown football,

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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, a couple of quotes that you give

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about that in the book, you say,

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Speaker 1: buy investments like you buy food, which I think is

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Speaker 1: just like a really good way to think about it.

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Speaker 1: And then you go on to say, even God couldn't

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Speaker 1: beat dollar cost averaging. And it's like, you know, and

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Speaker 1: when we talk about dollar cost averaging, can you can

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Speaker 1: you define that for us and maybe just kind of yeah,

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Speaker 1: give your thoughts on just like doing it consistently and

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Speaker 1: why that's just the best route to go. Yeah. So

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Speaker 1: the I have a little bit of a uh beef

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Speaker 1: with the term dollar cost averaging, not in a bad way,

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Speaker 1: but because there's technically there are two definitions when people

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Speaker 1: say dollar cost averaging, there's there's two different forms of

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Speaker 1: dollar cost averaging, right, the dollar cost averaging and I support,

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Speaker 1: which is like you're just buying consistently with as you

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Speaker 1: get money. So basically, if you're buying your four one

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Speaker 1: K every two weeks or whatever every once a month,

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Speaker 1: that's call I consider that dollar cost averaging. But we're

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Speaker 1: really doing is you're taking a small lumps some payment

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Speaker 1: putting it in every time. The other definition, which a

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Speaker 1: lot of people use as well, is like let's say

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Speaker 1: you just sold a company and you have a million

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Speaker 1: bucks or something. You've gotta inherit in some hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. Instead of putting that a hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars into the market right now, you slowly average into

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Speaker 1: the market. So I'm very specific in the book. I

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Speaker 1: call that averaging in versus dollar cost averaging because it's

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Speaker 1: very confusing. When we say dollar cost averaging, people mean

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Speaker 1: two different things. So when I talk about dollar cost average,

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Speaker 1: I'm just talking about just buying over time. It's like,

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Speaker 1: just keep buying. They're basically the same thing. I just

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Speaker 1: think the branding of just keep buying is a little

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Speaker 1: bit better and there's less syllables, so that's helpful. Marketing matters, Yeah, marketing,

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Speaker 1: any marketing matters, and so to say dollar cost averaging,

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Speaker 1: that doesn't make any sense. But just keep buying a

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Speaker 1: little bit clearer, and that's basically just rebranding that and

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Speaker 1: trying to show with data why that's true. But um

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Speaker 1: so I believe in. It's just like you're buying over time,

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Speaker 1: and generally most markets you know, across the planet go

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Speaker 1: up over time. There are are there a course exceptions.

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Speaker 1: I know them all. Don't worry. You know you're gonna

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Speaker 1: be like, what about Crease and you know, oh eight,

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Speaker 1: I know about that. What about Russia in the last

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Speaker 1: two months it went down? I know about that. But Spain,

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Speaker 1: see yeah, I know, like Japan, like I trust me.

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Speaker 1: I've known them all. I've studied them, I study the nightmares.

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Speaker 1: They they happen, but they're rare. And so most markets,

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Speaker 1: most of the time, is across the world generally go up.

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Speaker 1: So if you're diversified investor, you'll probably do find even

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Speaker 1: if you have a couple of markets that don't do

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Speaker 1: as well. So that's kind of the main main theory

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Speaker 1: of owning assets. If you're betting on that downside too,

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Speaker 1: like and you then it's it's less about like when

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Speaker 1: to put money in, and it's more like you should

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Speaker 1: be putting your money towards a root seller and non

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Speaker 1: perishable foods, right, yeah, exactly, Ken Goods, guns and ammo. Yeah. Right, Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the alternatives to investing, nick is just taking

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Speaker 1: that money and sticking it in the bank. So we

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Speaker 1: kind of wanted to talk about savings here for a

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Speaker 1: second because in your book, chapter one, it's subtitled why

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Speaker 1: saving is for the poor and investing is for the rich,

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Speaker 1: and then you follow up in chapter two saying that

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Speaker 1: you should be saving less than you think. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I talk to us a little bit about your essentially

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Speaker 1: your disdain we're saving money. I would say, there's a sting.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Okay, I caught it loud and clear. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think. So when I say savings, let's there's a

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Speaker 1: lot there to impact. So when I say savings for

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Speaker 1: the poor, investing is for the rich. Um, you'll you'll

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Speaker 1: see in the first chapter it's that is a relative statement,

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Speaker 1: that is not an absolute statement. So when I say,

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Speaker 1: savings for the poor, you have to like every person,

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Speaker 1: I basically create this idea called the save invest continuum,

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Speaker 1: and everyone is on this continuum, like, regardless of you know,

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Speaker 1: what they're doing their financial life, everyone's on the continum.

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Speaker 1: You gotta figre out where you are. And the question

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Speaker 1: is like, Okay, how much money can you save in

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Speaker 1: the next year. That's like a dollar amount. Let's see,

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Speaker 1: you could save you know, five hundred bucks a month

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Speaker 1: over the next twelve months. Okay, six grand? Okay. The

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Speaker 1: other option is okay, how much money can my investments

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Speaker 1: earn me in the next year. So let's say you

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Speaker 1: have twenty grand invested and you own and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: get you know, five percent here, let's say, right, that's

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Speaker 1: a thousand bucks. Remember you could save six grand or

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Speaker 1: your investments can earn you a thousand. So it sounds

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Speaker 1: like what you need to do is you need to

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Speaker 1: get your investments to earn you more. Right, they need

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Speaker 1: to earn you more money. You want to remember trying

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Speaker 1: to move to more passive income. You're trying to become

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Speaker 1: financially free. All of that is like moving money from

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Speaker 1: one calling to the other. You want, you want more

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Speaker 1: investment income. To do that, you have to save more

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Speaker 1: money and you have to invest that money, right, And

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Speaker 1: so savings for the poor is like when you're relatively

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Speaker 1: poorer or when you're like younger, especially, you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: have much investment income, so you need to focus on

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Speaker 1: your savings and you just spend a lot of time

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Speaker 1: thinking about how to save money whether and I think

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Speaker 1: that's really gonna come from income, but you're gonna save money,

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Speaker 1: get invested that, and then over time that's gonna build

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Speaker 1: and you're gonna start earning a lot more from your investments.

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Speaker 1: So that's one piece of that. So I'm gonna I

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Speaker 1: want to say savings for the poor investings for the rich.

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Speaker 1: By the time you're like have a lot of money

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Speaker 1: coming in from investments, Like basically the rich have to

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Speaker 1: care a lot more about their investments because their savings

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Speaker 1: can't affect like their lifestyle as much anymore. You know,

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Speaker 1: like like like Elon must savings rate has no impact

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Speaker 1: on his lifestyle. Yeah, it's like, oh my gosh, I

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Speaker 1: need to you know, cut out my spending here, Like no,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's all about what happens to Tesla

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Speaker 1: and all the other investments, right, like seven houses and he,

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Speaker 1: you know, got like a hundred thirty million. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: that means nothing, man, Yeah, exactly. So I'm saying I

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Speaker 1: can use extreme examples, like someone that has no money,

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Speaker 1: all that matters to them is how much they can save,

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Speaker 1: Like they can have the greatest investment portfolio in the world,

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Speaker 1: but thousand dollars to invest it's irrelevant, right, So that's

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Speaker 1: that's that point, right, So that those are obviously on

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Speaker 1: the extremes, it's very obvious for most of us were

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Speaker 1: not on those extremes, are probably somewhere closer to the middle.

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Speaker 1: And so you have to figure out where you are

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Speaker 1: and where you spend your attention. I, for example, I

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Speaker 1: have to spend time on both. Right, I'm at a

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Speaker 1: point now where, like you know, I can I basically

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Speaker 1: can save as much as my investments earn me. But

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Speaker 1: like there's a really bad year in the market, like

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Speaker 1: on paper, I will lose more than I could save

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Speaker 1: in a year, you know, So and that really depends, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of scary. But that's where you have

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Speaker 1: to think about both of them, right, And most people

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Speaker 1: you should see that early on. You shouldn't spend that

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Speaker 1: much time on your investments in terms of like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I get them, you know, figure out what to invest in,

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Speaker 1: buy some stuff, low cost index funds, et cetera, but

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Speaker 1: don't obsess over them. What you should be obsessing over

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Speaker 1: is your career and other things you can do to

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Speaker 1: earn more money. That's what I think you should be

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Speaker 1: obsessing over when you're young. As you get older, you

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Speaker 1: can care less about that and more about your investments.

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Speaker 1: I was just like, can we talk about growing the income,

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Speaker 1: because that's something you talk about a lot too, right,

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Speaker 1: is is you do talk about making more money, earning

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Speaker 1: more money, and how frugality maybe is even like overdone.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we talked about that too much in the personal

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Speaker 1: finance space. And and how growing the you know, how

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Speaker 1: much you're bringing home every single month, every single year,

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Speaker 1: How maybe that's even even more important. Yes, I think

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Speaker 1: if you if you look at the data from the

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Speaker 1: Bureau Labor Statistics, basically you just like look at, okay,

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Speaker 1: how much if you look at the bottom of households,

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Speaker 1: like they spend more than their income than they bring in, right,

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Speaker 1: and you look at like actually put the amounts in

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Speaker 1: there here, what wuch they spending rent here, they spending food, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: The amounts aren't ridiculous. These people aren't living these lavish lifestyles.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, you know why if they just

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Speaker 1: cut their spending, they would be rich. Like it's not true.

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Speaker 1: It's just the data is not there. It's just a

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Speaker 1: lot of these people, like how they spend more than income.

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Speaker 1: Will they take out debt and that's how consumer credit

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Speaker 1: card debt and different types of debt, or they borrow

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Speaker 1: from friends or something. There's debt there. Right, it's the

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Speaker 1: only way it can be done. You know. Obviously the

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Speaker 1: bottom households changes over time. Some of those people are

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Speaker 1: college students. They'll get jobs later. Some have a low

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Speaker 1: paying job, I get a higher paying job. Right. People

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Speaker 1: are always moving out of you know, where they are

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Speaker 1: in life. But if you look at the data, like spending,

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Speaker 1: cutting spending works a little bit um, but for most people,

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Speaker 1: it's not going to be the way you build wealth.

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Speaker 1: Like like I love the examples like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 1: like look at these celebrities like you know, Lindsay lohand

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Speaker 1: or um Nicholas Cage. All these people like went bankrupt

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Speaker 1: are almost bankrupt multiple times because of all they're spending.

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Speaker 1: It's like it's all about spending. It's like, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: have like five or six or maybe even ten examples

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Speaker 1: of celebrities and bankrupt, But like, what data do I have?

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Speaker 1: I have every other celebrity. Every other celebrity is not bankrupt,

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Speaker 1: Like why because they have high income? So like, yes,

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Speaker 1: if you have really bad spending habits, like yes, you can,

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Speaker 1: you know, get into ruin. But for a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: it's income. Really, it's income that's driving that. And I

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Speaker 1: think the data is pretty clear, right, And so like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the arguments I try to make is

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Speaker 1: based on what I know and not like what we assume.

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Speaker 1: Like like we can be like, oh, you know what

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Speaker 1: the Rock you know how he's so rich because he

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Speaker 1: has a great money mindset. It's like, no, the Rocks

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Speaker 1: rich because he has an incredible income. And I can

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Speaker 1: tell you that there's his money mindset might be average

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Speaker 1: at best. We have no idea, but what we do

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Speaker 1: know is he has a high income. Right, And so

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Speaker 1: that's a lot of my arguments like what's actually true

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Speaker 1: that we know versus like what's assumed about people. That's

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Speaker 1: like why I'm kind of I'm not against frugality at all. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: some people are just like that. Like even now when

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Speaker 1: I go to the McDonald's, I still hold off the

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Speaker 1: dollar menu even though I can afford, because like I

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Speaker 1: did that with my father, and I still order off

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Speaker 1: the dollar when you're like it's a weird thing, Like

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Speaker 1: I always did because like we didn't have a lot

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Speaker 1: of money, and so I was like, oh, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: always order off the dollar ring. So to this day,

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Speaker 1: I still get like the mcdouble and the chicken and

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Speaker 1: all that stuff, like wait till they start having some

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Speaker 1: of that dry aged steak, the dry age McRib but

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Speaker 1: that and so, and then getting back to one quick

425
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,159
Speaker 1: question earlier, you were talking about like, oh, do I

426
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:52,119
Speaker 1: have a disdain for savings? And I just need to

427
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:53,600
Speaker 1: look at some of the data. They're like, I think

428
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people save too much. I mean only

429
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,359
Speaker 1: one in six retirees are drawing down principle, which is

430
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,920
Speaker 1: kind of shocking, but like from so security and everything else,

431
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,119
Speaker 1: like if you have money like in these accounts, so

432
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 1: many people end up their assets grow as they retire,

433
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,520
Speaker 1: and you're like, what should you be spending your money to?

434
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,879
Speaker 1: Everyone talks about using the four percent rule spending your

435
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:11,720
Speaker 1: money down. You look at the data, most people aren't

436
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 1: doing that. Like most people take their rm d s

437
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:16,080
Speaker 1: and they just reinvested. Their wealth is growing over time.

438
00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:17,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Michael Kitty's at this thing where it's like

439
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 1: your wealth is is just as likely to four rex

440
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:22,919
Speaker 1: as it is to go to zero. Like that's how like,

441
00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,959
Speaker 1: that's how crazy it is, Like they're equally likely, you know,

442
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,359
Speaker 1: for someone who's using the whatever, the four percent rule

443
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,520
Speaker 1: or some some rule like that. So I'm just like,

444
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,040
Speaker 1: it's not that I'm against saving. I just think I

445
00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:35,400
Speaker 1: know people that are doing very well and they they're

446
00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,520
Speaker 1: acting like they are not doing well at all. And

447
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 1: I think if the data you realize just like how

448
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:42,400
Speaker 1: fortunate so many people are. And like, I think people

449
00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 1: obsess over too much. Yeah, I know, I I agree,

450
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,679
Speaker 1: especially as you start to build more wealth, it can

451
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,560
Speaker 1: be difficult to get out of that mindset, right, And

452
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,280
Speaker 1: that's the problem that those retirees are dealing with. They

453
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 1: have spent their entire lives going in one direction and

454
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 1: all of a sudden they have to kind of on

455
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,960
Speaker 1: a dime switch, like like, how are you supposed to

456
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,320
Speaker 1: go from from ford like even going forward your entire life,

457
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,640
Speaker 1: and now you got to flip it into reverse. The

458
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, the backup beap starts beeping and you feel

459
00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 1: like that something is wrong, like mental gymnastics to start

460
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,199
Speaker 1: drawing down on the funds you've been u investing in

461
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,960
Speaker 1: saving up for you know, four plus decades. That's that's so,

462
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 1: that's a big reason why here on the show, I mean,

463
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,320
Speaker 1: we often talk about finding balance in our lives even

464
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,800
Speaker 1: when we are most clearly in that wealth building stage,

465
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,320
Speaker 1: but like you still have to incorporate some little splurges,

466
00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,440
Speaker 1: whether that's craft beer, whether that's right age stake and Nick,

467
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:32,080
Speaker 1: we're actually going to talk about some of the different

468
00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 1: ways that we can spend our money, some of the

469
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:36,840
Speaker 1: ways it can maybe be healthy, but some of the

470
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 1: ways too that it could lead to our financial downfall.

471
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,840
Speaker 1: And we'll get to all of those questions right after

472
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:52,640
Speaker 1: this break. All right, we're back in the break still

473
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,880
Speaker 1: talking with Nick Majulie. We're talking about why you should

474
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,480
Speaker 1: save less money because saving is for dummies and you

475
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 1: should just keep buying. I'm I'm putting lords in your mouth.

476
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,439
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Nick, You're you're not saying that, and I

477
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 1: know I appreciate it. We just keep buying everything else

478
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: that can restrict redacted from the record consulting terms. So no,

479
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,679
Speaker 1: I I think that the nuance you provided there is

480
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 1: is really helpful. And and you know what you're talking

481
00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 1: about two is basically maximizing the enjoyment of your dollars.

482
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,879
Speaker 1: And I think it's a great way to think about it.

483
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,240
Speaker 1: And you know what Matt was alluding to, how, you know,

484
00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,240
Speaker 1: we we want people to strike balance in the here

485
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:28,800
Speaker 1: and now while they're being smart with their money. And

486
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,560
Speaker 1: that's something maybe or one of the criticisms that we've

487
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 1: had of the fire movement over the years is there

488
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 1: can be this nose to the grindstone for ten, twelve,

489
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 1: fifteen years to reach this one goal and you're burned

490
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:41,640
Speaker 1: out by the end of it, and it's really hard

491
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,639
Speaker 1: to shift gears. And so you should be enjoying along

492
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,159
Speaker 1: the way. Um, And so, yeah, what's your take on

493
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,439
Speaker 1: maybe a lot of the chatter in the personal finance

494
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 1: space around deprivation and then yeah, talk to us about

495
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: your views on guilt free spending. Yeah, so I think

496
00:20:58,119 --> 00:20:59,720
Speaker 1: the biggest wake up call for me I think was

497
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: co of it in a big way, not for me personally,

498
00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:03,560
Speaker 1: but just from what I saw. Like, imagine, you know,

499
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: you're six years old, you're out in the Alps, you

500
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:09,239
Speaker 1: know you maybe you're gonna retire in a year or two.

501
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,400
Speaker 1: You're like out, you know, somewhere in Italy on a vacation,

502
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 1: and this new pandemic breaks out, you get it. You

503
00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,119
Speaker 1: unfortunately pass away, and it's like you had your entire

504
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,600
Speaker 1: you know, twenty thirty years ahead of your retirement now gone, right,

505
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: all this you did, all the saving and all that,

506
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: and so think about just how tragic that is. And

507
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: of course, like you're doing a vacation, you're spending your money.

508
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: Obviously it's good, right, So, but I think there's a

509
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,719
Speaker 1: lot of people that are just setting up this thing

510
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 1: of like, okay, like I expect to live to be

511
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,719
Speaker 1: eighty nine or whatever. You have something, you run all

512
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,240
Speaker 1: these numbers and you expect all this stuff, and of

513
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 1: course you should act as if you're going to get there,

514
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,920
Speaker 1: but at the same time need to be somewhat reasonable too,

515
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 1: of like you're you're doing all this for something, like

516
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 1: why are you saving your money? I think a lot

517
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: of people just do it because that's what they see

518
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,959
Speaker 1: everyone else doing and they don't actually think about it,

519
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: and they don't know like what am I saving for?

520
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 1: What am I? What do I really care about? You know?

521
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 1: And so for me, I think spending money personally just

522
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,920
Speaker 1: like figuring yourself out. I think it's really tough. I think,

523
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,640
Speaker 1: like even myself, like I wouldn't. I never really considered

524
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: myself a foodie, like historically I would like someone asked me,

525
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:05,679
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not a food but then I realized, like, I, oh,

526
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 1: actually kind of am, Like I like trying new restaurants,

527
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 1: like doing it like no wonder I live in New

528
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 1: York City. It's like all these things you start to

529
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,919
Speaker 1: figure out about yourself. And so I think this is

530
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,399
Speaker 1: really more of an introspective thing. You have to think about,

531
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 1: like what are you really doing this for? And I

532
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: think a lot of people don't really know because like, Okay,

533
00:22:20,119 --> 00:22:22,080
Speaker 1: you want, oh I want free time to do whatever

534
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: I want? My Okay, well, what's whatever you want? Okay?

535
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 1: Let's say let's say I could I have a magic

536
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: want I grant your free time? Right now? What are

537
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,000
Speaker 1: you gonna do all day? You know? I'll tell you

538
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: what I do. I'd still be writing, I'd still be

539
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,119
Speaker 1: doing the same stuff. I'd still be wanting to probably

540
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: work in the financial services firm. You know, I'd probably

541
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: don't work with my firm. I like, I like trying

542
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 1: to help people. I believe in our mission, like you know,

543
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 1: so I think you have to figure that out. And

544
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,359
Speaker 1: once you figure that out, then spending the money is easy. Like, oh,

545
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: I care about these things, so I'm willing to spend big,

546
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: which is like why I love that question you I

547
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: start every pod with it's like what are the things

548
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: you like to support on? Because you're you're grounding in

549
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 1: like do you know yourself? Really there's a question, yes,

550
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 1: And so I think you guys both know what you

551
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 1: guys like to spend money on. I'm like, I think

552
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 1: a lot of your median I'm assuming he knows, Like

553
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 1: you know, we were like spending money in a couple

554
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 1: of categories. But figuring out those things I think is

555
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: the most important. So UM, in terms of guilt free spending,

556
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:10,680
Speaker 1: UM one of the rules I like to use, and

557
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 1: I think this is a very simple rule. It's just

558
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: called the two X rule. And basically, if you're safe,

559
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 1: if you want to splurge on something. Let's say I

560
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: want to go out to like a really nice like

561
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: um sushi tasting and oh macasa right, it's gonna be

562
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 1: like two h fifty bucks a person. And so like,

563
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 1: let's say I'm going on a date with this girl

564
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,040
Speaker 1: or something. We've been seeing each a little while. I'm like, Okay,

565
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: we're gonna go out. So I spend five dars on this.

566
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: You're like, that's crazy, that's so much money. I'm like, well,

567
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:32,560
Speaker 1: before I spend that, you know, let's say it was

568
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 1: an anniversary dinner or something. Before I spend that, I'm

569
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,680
Speaker 1: going to save up another five dollars. I'm going to

570
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: invest in the market, or I'm going to donate it

571
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: or something like that. You save up additional two x

572
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: what you're supposed to save so that when I spend

573
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,480
Speaker 1: that five hundred dollars, I don't feel guilty about it.

574
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, you know what, Yes, I spent more

575
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: than I probably should have normally, but at the same time,

576
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: I invested somebody. So I'm doing something to kind of

577
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: pay off my guilt basically, so you don't have And

578
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,480
Speaker 1: so I do this all the time, and I don't

579
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: have guilt about how I spend money. I really dope

580
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,439
Speaker 1: and I used to, especially like when I was, you know,

581
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: much younger, I used to feel guilty about I remember

582
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 1: even I was at a music festival once and I

583
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,359
Speaker 1: didn't want like the beers were nine dollars because it's

584
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 1: a music festival, you know, that's how it is, right,

585
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: And I was like, I want to spend nine dollars

586
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,439
Speaker 1: on a beer. That's crazy. And I ended up not

587
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: doing that, like we end up like doing it, you know.

588
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: I was like, I was like, why did I do that?

589
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: Like looking back now, it's like a regret at like

590
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: I should just spent the nine dollars on a beer

591
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: or whatever. But it's like thinking about that, it's like that.

592
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: It was that mindset of not not kind of just hey,

593
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,200
Speaker 1: just enjoy the moment. It's just nine bucks, like that,

594
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: how much is that nine dollars gonna change me? Now?

595
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: Not at all. Yeah, in the moment, that's a really

596
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: fun thing that you get to enjoy. And I agree,

597
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 1: Like I was so frugal, especially in my early mid twenties,

598
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: and I still like think frugality is a great thing

599
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 1: and something we talked about here a lot on the show,

600
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: because I do think that's an important part of the puzzle,

601
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: especially when you're like broadcasting to a whole bunch of people,

602
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: Like a lot of people need to know how to

603
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: live more frugally, um, and there are specific ways to

604
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: do that better. But at the same time, I had

605
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: to realize, like, well, what am I saving this money for?

606
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 1: What am I investing for the future? Four? And you

607
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,359
Speaker 1: have to be able to enjoy the here and now

608
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: at the same time. And if you're not doing that,

609
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: and if you feel guilty every time you try to

610
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: spend money on something you enjoy, it almost like drags

611
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,400
Speaker 1: it down and makes it way less fun. Um. It's

612
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,280
Speaker 1: almost like it's just like a mental bummer, a big

613
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: drag on the joy that you're trying to get from

614
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: the money you have worked hard to earn. And so

615
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: you have to find that balance and it's you know,

616
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 1: it's not always easy, but I think it's something people

617
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,320
Speaker 1: should strive for. And I like your too actual because

618
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,879
Speaker 1: it does kind of allow people that mental freedom to

619
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: enjoy the things that they actually do love while they're

620
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, while they're doing trying to you know, be

621
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: smart with their money. Yeah, exactly, So that's that's what

622
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 1: I say, and just focus on things that provide you fulfillment.

623
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: So whatever that is. It's for some people. I think

624
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 1: there's this whole like experience. There's a war on like

625
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: buying material goods, and it's like, oh, you know, only

626
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: experienced experiences. The data shows experiences. And don't get me wrong,

627
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: I understand the data. I've seen it, and it looks

628
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: like people prefer buying so any more experiences than good.

629
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: But that's not true of everyone. I mean that's an

630
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 1: average result. Like some people really like nice cars. I'm

631
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: not one of them, so people do. And I think

632
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: if you're one of those people, like, don't feel bad

633
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: sporting on a nice car. If you're one of the

634
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: people that likes a nice handbag, don't feel bad about

635
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: that just because the data says, well, nine, you know,

636
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: people prefer this. You might be an exception to that rule.

637
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: So like, don't get me wrong, I love using data,

638
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 1: relying on data, but it's not perfect. Remember it's only

639
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: gonna get the average result, right. That's why experiences might

640
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 1: be great for extroverts, and since most people are extroverted,

641
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:25,239
Speaker 1: that's gonna look great there but there's gonna be a

642
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: small subset of the population that's much more introverted that

643
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 1: won't get as much out of experiences in the same way.

644
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: So you have to really know yourself. I think that's

645
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: more important and then optimizing for that with your money

646
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: versus like just taking what society says all the time. Yeah,

647
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: well I is extroverted. Well there's as far as folks

648
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: are willing to spend on experiences. And I mean, you're

649
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:46,199
Speaker 1: you're kind of getting at this nick but like, how

650
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: would you recommend for somebody to ask themselves that question? Like,

651
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 1: I mean, what we're talking about here is like serious

652
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: like real soul searching essentially and to you know, for

653
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: us to determine and to figure out what is it

654
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 1: that bring brings us fulfillment? Like do you have any

655
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: practical suggests for folks to determine that for themselves? I mean,

656
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,560
Speaker 1: this is a question that they've been asking for centuries

657
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 1: and millennia. Realis is a philosophical in good life myself? Right?

658
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: Like this is like you know, like stoicisms coming back

659
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: with Seneca and all these philosophers, and it's like is

660
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: he these are old ideas that we've been asking asking

661
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: ourselves as humans for a long time, and so I

662
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,119
Speaker 1: don't know. I think the a lot of this is

663
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,479
Speaker 1: just like exploration, trying your things, seeing what you like,

664
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: what you don't like, figuring out what systems work for

665
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: you what doesn't. I mean, that's really it. So for me,

666
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 1: I mean, that's why I have generally lived in big cities,

667
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: because like there's a lot of experiences, a lot of

668
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 1: things you can try, and you figure out what you

669
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: like and what you don't like. And that's kind of it, really,

670
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: And if you never kind of explore certain things, you'll

671
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 1: never know really And so of course you can't explore everything.

672
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: It's it's impossible to explore every option. Like I've never

673
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: lived in Atlanta, for all I know, that could be

674
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: my favorite city in the world, right, Like I have

675
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: no clue, you know, come on down. That's how I

676
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: get myself invited down. But there's limits to this, obviously,

677
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: but there's within that you know, you can still say, like, Okay,

678
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: I know I like this I don't like For example,

679
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: I know I don't love driving. So it's gonna be

680
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: really tough for me not to live in a place

681
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 1: where I have to drive, you know, or an hour

682
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: every day, you know, or something like that. So like

683
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: just knowing yourself and knowing what you care about, like oh,

684
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: just being able to like, you know, my gym is

685
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: two blocks away, my grocery stores three blocks away. Like

686
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 1: everything near me is a block or two away. And

687
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 1: so for me, I care about just being able to

688
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: walk to everything, and so like that's I value that

689
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: so much. And so I don't have a car all

690
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: that and I paper in rent. You pay, you're paying

691
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:27,720
Speaker 1: for it somehow. You've gotta figure out where you're paying

692
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: for right So for just knowing what you want, I

693
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: think is the key. So just I mean, spend time

694
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 1: on it. There's no real there's no easy way. I

695
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: wish I could be like, oh yeah, when I was

696
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: twenty two and you know, I want three, I had

697
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: no clue. It took me a decade to even get

698
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: to hear. And I'm still learning every day. So it's

699
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: a process. Yeah, Like it's not like one day you

700
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: wake up the scales fall from your eyes and you're

701
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: like I get it. I know it, Like it's all

702
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 1: about right now, and so it is a yeah, it is, Uh,

703
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: it takes time along on a continuum to find more

704
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 1: and more what you're into. But I think part of

705
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 1: the key is not just blindly or numbly doing what

706
00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: everyone else around you is doing. I think that is

707
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: a pattern people fall into. Well, my neighbor Bill just

708
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: got about I guess it's time for me to do

709
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: something similar. Um and yeah, and and kind of really

710
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 1: marching marching to your own drummers part of it. Yeah,

711
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: And just to add onto that too, Nick, I mean,

712
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: what I hear you saying is in what you're saying

713
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: to Jill is that you don't have to like, don't

714
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: beat yourself up right like, like you said, like, we're

715
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: not going to get it right away. It takes a

716
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 1: number of years to figure this thing out, and we're

717
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 1: gonna make mistakes, you know, and we're gonna look back

718
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: into our past and say that was that stupid. I

719
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,320
Speaker 1: can't believe I spent that much money on X on

720
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: that car or literally still look back to when I

721
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: bought a second Dreamcast from my friend growing up, and

722
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: I'm like, what a waste of money? Because I did.

723
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: I had really such an idiot played it for like

724
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: three weeks, and I'm like, what if I had that

725
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: hundred fifty bucks back and really like, those are the

726
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: kind of things you don't know exactly. You don't know,

727
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: and that's that's why you hear Nick saying though, is like, yeah,

728
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: I think let it inform your future though this is

729
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 1: this is informing my big takeaway from the end of

730
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 1: the upset. But like, yeah, be willing to experiment here,

731
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: and I appreciate what you're saying there, Nick, Yeah, And

732
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 1: there's gonna be waste when you do that. There's gonna

733
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,920
Speaker 1: be waste. You know. It's like if I remember a

734
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: friend who was like really into watches and he bought

735
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of different watches and then he only wears

736
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: one now he like never wants the other one. I

737
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: was like and it was like, oh, yeah, you waste

738
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,719
Speaker 1: all that money, But no, he figured out, oh, I

739
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: just want I like this watch the best, and I

740
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: don't like wearing it, and so you just got rid

741
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 1: of the other one. So it's like, you're gonna there's

742
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 1: gonna be waste involved in the process. You're not going

743
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: to optimize it perfectly. Trust me, as someone who's like

744
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: cares about optimization and like always thinking about that stuff,

745
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: Like you have to just let it go. It's some

746
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: costs that happened. So yep, yep, all right, well you

747
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: already kind of uh, you've created one piece of financial

748
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: personal finance heresy and kind of how you talked about

749
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: savings for a second, but you you keep putting words

750
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: I do, I do. I'm sorry, Nick, I'm sorry. He's

751
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: never coming back on the show, and I don't. But

752
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: you you share some some interesting thoughts on debt and

753
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: why you actually mentioned that credit card debt isn't necessarily

754
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:43,480
Speaker 1: an awful thing, and so all right, I want to

755
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: hear your reasoning behind that, because that is kind of

756
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: a surprising take. I got your reasoning in the book,

757
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 1: but can you guys share it with your our listeners. Yeah,

758
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: so I think, and no trust me. I mean, this

759
00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: is a big preface. It's an exception based on it.

760
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: So generally credit card debt is not a good thing.

761
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: I will say that, And that's all obviously true. Most

762
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: people know that already. Not everyone knows that, however, For example,

763
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: let's say there's someone that has a thousand dollars in

764
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: their checking account and they also have five dollars in

765
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 1: credit card debt. Looking at this, you'd say, well, if

766
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: you're paying art year on that credit card debt, you

767
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 1: should just pay that off. Right, you have a thousand

768
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,959
Speaker 1: bucks cash, five bucks in credit card debt. You know

769
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: you net that out, You're gonna have five dollars cash,

770
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: no credit card debt. Isn't that better? Right? It's very obvious.

771
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: The problem is in that particular example, it actually might

772
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: make sense for that person to have credit card debt.

773
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: What they're called in the academic literature is borrower savers

774
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: because they're borrowing, yet they have cash that they could

775
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,479
Speaker 1: pay off their debt with. And the reason is, like

776
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:40,360
Speaker 1: it might be a liquidity issue. Let's say all of

777
00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: a sudden, a week later, they get hit with a

778
00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 1: you know, the car breaks down. They have to spend

779
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 1: seven d dollars, right, and if they don't spend that

780
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 1: seven ars, they can't get to work and they can't

781
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: earn their money. So now, if they only had five

782
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: hundred bucks, they can't do that now, But with five

783
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 1: dollars in credit card and a thousand dollars they can.

784
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: So it's a it's more of a liquidity problem. And

785
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 1: so I think there's a lot of times where we

786
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 1: make blanket claims in the personal finance space. And of course,

787
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: remember this argument is obviously extreme. I know this in

788
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: extreme argument, but I'm the point I'm trying to make

789
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: is there's a lot of times we make blanket claims

790
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: like debt is bad, or credit card debt is bad,

791
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: or max for four own k, and we can get

792
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: it all of that. A lot of these things are blanketed,

793
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: and I think there's exceptions where they're not always true,

794
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: and just to think about, like when do those exceptions exist?

795
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: And you know, just just to I like to challenge

796
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 1: like a lot of the fundamental principles and personal finance

797
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 1: because I feel when everyone's saying the same thing over

798
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: and over and over again, we need a question whether

799
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 1: that's actually right. Once in a while. It's kind of

800
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 1: goes back to first principles. I'm not saying like it's wrong.

801
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: I think generally, yes, credit card debt is bad and

802
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: you should not be racking up a ton of credit

803
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: card debt. So like that's like to me, that's very obvious.

804
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 1: But if someone has a thousand bucks and they have

805
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: five dollars in credit card debt, if you're like, you

806
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: know what, you should pay off that credit card first thing,

807
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: maybe not, maybe get your emergency fund first and then

808
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: consider paying off the credit card debt. Is it optimal

809
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: mathematically No, but it's probably optimal from a risk perspective, right,

810
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: And so it's like figuring out what are we actually

811
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: solving for if we're trying to maximize dollars. Yes, you

812
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 1: should pay off the credit card first, but there's a

813
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: chance that you get hit with something and now you're

814
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,959
Speaker 1: even in a worst position than you were beforehand, right

815
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: where you don't have liquidity and you can't pay for something,

816
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: and now you lose your job, et cetera. Now you're

817
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: really in a bad spot. So that's kind of the

818
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: example I give. And I don't know how many of

819
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: your listeners or in even something like that or even

820
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: close to that, but it's just the point of thinking

821
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: about this more critically, which I think is kind of

822
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: lost in the personal finance space. Sometimes. Yeah, there's there's

823
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 1: also just like some peace of mind right with cash

824
00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: on hand that comes along for people, and and so yeah,

825
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think sometimes maybe um, we

826
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: rushed because we've heard that blanket advice and and yet

827
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: there is it's it's so tough to just give blanket

828
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: advice to everyone, because um, there are so many specific

829
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: nuances in situations. I think I don't know which our

830
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: favorite favorite episodes are, but we love the listener Questions

831
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 1: episodes because it gives us a chance to kind of

832
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 1: take a more nuanced approach to a topic because we

833
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: have a specific situation we're dealing with. And and you know,

834
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: blanket advice doesn't apply. Always have the general first principles

835
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: still hold, but in your case, let's tweak it a

836
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 1: little bit because this is what it sounds like would be,

837
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: you know, optimal for you. So all right, hey, Nick,

838
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: We've got a few more questions we want to get

839
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 1: to you for you, including mostly mostly about investing, and

840
00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 1: we'll touch on crypto as well. You left it out

841
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: of your list of investable assets in your book, so

842
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about why you did that and more

843
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: right after this break. Alright, we're back from the break.

844
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: We're talking with Nick mc julie. His book Just Keep

845
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 1: Buying is what we're discussing today. Um, and Nick, you know,

846
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: like Joel mentioned, we want to talk about investing a

847
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: little bit more specifically. Like one of the main questions

848
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: that we get here on the show. Oftentimes it's for

849
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: folks who want to save up for a big purchase,

850
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: which usually means they're saving up for a down payment

851
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: on their home. So, like everyone out there, they want

852
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 1: sort of like a magic bullet answer when it comes

853
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: to how they can grow their money without there being

854
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: any risk. But what advice would you give for folks

855
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: who are looking to purchase sometime soon? Yes, so if

856
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 1: you're purchasing, I mean I looked at some of the

857
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: data on this over you know, going back to like

858
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: twenties in terms of like what returns are you've got

859
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: if you had invested that money in bonds or in

860
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: stocks while you're saving, etcetera. And generally, my my rule

861
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 1: of thumb is that if if you're plan to do

862
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: the purchase in the next three years, it should be

863
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,439
Speaker 1: in cash because I mean, most of the time, yes,

864
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: it probably would have been better to be in bonds, like,

865
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: but there's some risk involved. You may have to save

866
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: a couple extra months in case, you know, something happens

867
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: in bond prices crash in some way, right versus cash

868
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: that's not really gonna happen. Yes, there's inflation, so that's

869
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 1: why it generally takes a little like one month longer

870
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,399
Speaker 1: on average to save up for I don't know. Let's

871
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 1: say you know grand then it would take if you're

872
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: doing in bonds. So under a three year period, I say,

873
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: use cash. You're doing three to five years, you know,

874
00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: I need to start having bonds or some other sort

875
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: of instruments, and then five years beyond you might might

876
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 1: have some stocks. Right, So that's kind of like the

877
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,359
Speaker 1: the go to way of thinking about it. I think

878
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: it all comes down to risk, right, It's like what

879
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: risk are you willing to take and win? And so

880
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: that's why I generally recommend, you know, if you're saving

881
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: up for something, just put it in cash. I know

882
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: right now that's gonna be really scary because like while inflations,

883
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 1: you know, seven point five percent or eight percent a year,

884
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:14,479
Speaker 1: and so it's like your cash is being eaten away

885
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 1: and that sucks. But you know, you could be putting

886
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,439
Speaker 1: into something else where it's very risky. And so that's true.

887
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,279
Speaker 1: Now we don't know what the future is gonna hold

888
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: because inflations a percent now, does that mean it's gonna

889
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: be a percent next year or higher or lower? We

890
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: we don't necessarily know, so that's why I kind of

891
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: go to is like use cash, okay, and when when

892
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: we talk about just keep buying, like you you're basically

893
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,600
Speaker 1: a big fan of buying index funds, which you know,

894
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: Matt and I we feel the same way. But why

895
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: I want to hear your take on why you think

896
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 1: they're best for most folks like UM, because yeah, there's

897
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: a whole lot of things people can invest in, and

898
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: index funds certainly simple, easy to understand, but yeah, why

899
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: why do you think they're so great? I think low

900
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: low cost index funds and ETFs are the way to

901
00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: go for most people because they're easy, they're generally cheap

902
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 1: if you find the right ones. I'm not gonna put

903
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: any names out there. There's plenty of providers that provide

904
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 1: cheap exposure to UM, both US and international equities, UM

905
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,880
Speaker 1: and reads, which is real estate and many other assets. Right.

906
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: You can get you can get farm land reads, you

907
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: can get all sorts of exposure different asset classes for

908
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 1: very cheap. And I like because it's just it's easy.

909
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: I mean literally just go into a brokerage account. You know,

910
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: you go into your your Schwab or your Chase, your whatever,

911
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: et cetera. What our fidelity, whatever you have, you go

912
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 1: in there and you just you know, put in the

913
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 1: symbol and you buy it right as as as easy

914
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: as it could be. You know, of course you can

915
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: do that with mutual funds and other things. But I

916
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: think the tax efficiency there's a lot of benefits that

917
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to get into all that

918
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: right now, but like there's a lot of benefits to

919
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: just low cost index ones that just makes it really easy.

920
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: You're getting cheap diversification, and that is that's the key.

921
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 1: Cheap diversification. Yeah, we like cheap especially. I mean again,

922
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: I keep thinking about just my mind keeps going back

923
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: to the conversation around frugality, and oftentimes it is such

924
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: an important thing to keep in mind, especially early on

925
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 1: when you aren't necessarily making a ton, but as your

926
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 1: wealth grows over time, Like that's not something you need

927
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: to pay much attention to, but it does. It is

928
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: something you need to need to pay attention to as

929
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 1: your portfolio grows as well, because when you start looking

930
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: at expense ratios on large sums of money, that is

931
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: some serious amount of money that can that you can

932
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,720
Speaker 1: be separated from over the years so you mentioned index funds.

933
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: I also appreciate Nick how you share your single stock

934
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 1: picks on Instagram. You you you highlight some of your you know,

935
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 1: some of your stinker uh investments, for instance, Rent the Runway.

936
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: Can you do you mind sharing a little bit about

937
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: those and kind of how you view those individual companies

938
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: like you gotta so I need. I don't have any

939
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: relationship with these companies. Um So, for for the record,

940
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: Chapter twelve is called don't buy individual stocks, and this

941
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: is an example why so No I did this for funds.

942
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: So I I own two individual stocks, and I'm not

943
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: saying this to pump them. I'm not saying they're down badly.

944
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: So they're down like sea, So I'm not worried about that.

945
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,600
Speaker 1: What I'm saying I own two individual stocks. One's Matterport,

946
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 1: one's Rent the Runway. Matterport's like an augmented reality thing. Anyways,

947
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: I don't recommend invidual stocks because I think it's very

948
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: difficult to be performance wise and also you don't know

949
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: if you're actually gonna be good at doing it. For

950
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: like a professional standpoint, however, I put you know, one

951
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: percent of my investable assets and into these two companies.

952
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:21,319
Speaker 1: So a very very small percent, you know, one percent

953
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: of everything I own, so not risking the farm, so

954
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 1: to speak. And I kind of talk about this in

955
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: the book, but um, I got into Matterport because I

956
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 1: had a bunch of friends getting into it, so we

957
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,239
Speaker 1: kind of did it as like a social thing and

958
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: it was kind of a you know, a thing we

959
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: laughed about and stuff, so it was like kind of cool,

960
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: but also it's like an investment. And the other one

961
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,799
Speaker 1: rent the runway. I remember I was like, oh, this

962
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 1: is my Peter Lynch moment. Like I remember my next

963
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: girlfriend who was always using it, and this was like

964
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 1: pre COVID, and I was like, as soon as the

965
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 1: thing I po is, I'm gonna buy it, no matter

966
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 1: what I know. Right now, COVID still happening, and like

967
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:49,439
Speaker 1: it's probably not the best time to buy it because

968
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,520
Speaker 1: people aren't going out again, but like, I'll just do

969
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: it anyway. So I did. I put a little bit

970
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: of money in there, and it's down badly. Both they're

971
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 1: just getting crossed. So if anything, you know, even when

972
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: you write a book or a chapter about how you

973
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,359
Speaker 1: should by individual stocks, some people still do it. So

974
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 1: I wish i'd just listen to myself. So that's all

975
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say. So that's my only thing to say.

976
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 1: And I'm not trying to pump these companies or anything, right, right,

977
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: obviously you're not trying to trying to pump them or

978
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: anything like that. But I mean, the way we approach

979
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: it is like honestly, one percent like like like you're saying,

980
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: that is nothing. And if that keeps you from making larger,

981
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: more costly mistakes down the road, if if that keeps

982
00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: you on track with the you know, with the rest

983
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: of your portfolio, then a one percent pressure relief valve

984
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: can be an incredibly help helpful thing that keeps you

985
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: from just exploding the instant. Yeah, yeah, if you're gonna

986
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: do it, if you want to do it, do it

987
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: for fun. Take a small percentage your portfolio. You know

988
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,319
Speaker 1: we even okay, up to five percent, whatever you want

989
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: to do, that's fine, but keep it small. Do that

990
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 1: have most of your money and you know, things that

991
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: are not going to decline and stay down for a

992
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,880
Speaker 1: very long time. So index funds generally don't do that.

993
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: They have only once and recorded history, and they may

994
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: do it again, of course, but it's unlikely. And so

995
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 1: you know if that's happening, I think your investment pool,

996
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: father is not even the biggest piece of your worries,

997
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,480
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, right right, right, Yeah, you're

998
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: worrying about how your job the job. Yeah, we're talking

999
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: about go back to the can goods and guns and

1000
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 1: all that stuff. Yeah, yeah, So I don't know if

1001
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: that is that your bike stockp on came goods and

1002
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: guns or now yeah. No, no, I'm saying no, you

1003
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:19,799
Speaker 1: should be. So this is that's actually a controversial. It's

1004
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: not a controversial. It's a you should have like at

1005
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: least like I know, point one percent of your net

1006
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 1: worth or wealth in like some sort of prepper gear.

1007
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: Like you know, I have like twenty eight days of

1008
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: striped of dried food. Like in my apartment. I have

1009
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: like a life straw, so of like that's something you

1010
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: can like take dirty water and you can drink and

1011
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:36,880
Speaker 1: like I could drink out of a puddle in New

1012
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 1: York City with this thing, right, and so it's like

1013
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: and it'd be clean. So it's a very small amount

1014
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: of money. It's been a couple hundred dollars whatever doing this,

1015
00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: And I remember it's so funny during COVID, Like right

1016
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: when COVID happened, I had a by chance, I had

1017
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: a chemical spill kit. And you're like, why why that

1018
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: could you need? There's a chemical attack er. I mean

1019
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: it's crazy, obviously it's not. But I had this chemical

1020
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: spill kit and in there was a D ninety mask,

1021
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: an actual and ninety five, and I was wearing a

1022
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: mask back and like you know, early March, when everyone's like, yeah,

1023
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: you don't have to wear masks, I'm like, I don't.

1024
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: I don't believe that. I'm like, I'm putting this on.

1025
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:07,920
Speaker 1: Like I've seen like Age has been wearing masks forever.

1026
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:09,680
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm taking a mask. And I had this

1027
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: thing on in New York City, and I honestly think

1028
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: it like prevented me from getting it, if I have

1029
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: to be honest, Like, after watching Station eleven, it makes

1030
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: me want to Yeah, there's you probably watch those guys

1031
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 1: in Traverse City, Michigan, and all of a sudden you're like, oh,

1032
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to hang onto this mask exactly. Yes, I

1033
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 1: think having a little preppertiveness is okay, just a little

1034
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 1: though I don't I don't like have a bunker or anything.

1035
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: Like that or siege but like a little okay, you're

1036
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:36,080
Speaker 1: having some extra water having it's silly, but it's silly

1037
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 1: until it's not right, and then it's yeah. So yeah, alright,

1038
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: So let's talk about crypto for a sect. Because you

1039
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 1: didn't include cryptocurrency on in your list of investable assets

1040
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 1: like you made a list in in your in the book,

1041
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,400
Speaker 1: you know, you talked about a couple of things already,

1042
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: index funds reads. Why why did you lift leave crypto off?

1043
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,239
Speaker 1: And do you feel about crypto like the same way

1044
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: would you say about like individual stocks that it's just

1045
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: supposed to be confined to just a small amount or yeah,

1046
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: what's what's your what are your thoughts there? Yeah, so

1047
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 1: I think most of individuals will should be an income

1048
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: producing assets, and so those are things that can obviously

1049
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 1: producing gum. That's like obviously equities, businesses, farm land, there's

1050
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: a there's a host of assets I discussed in the book,

1051
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 1: and I didn't put things like gold, art, wine, cryptocurrency

1052
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 1: under that because they're not InCom producing. Now that doesn't

1053
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: mean you can't make money in them, of course you

1054
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: can write. The issue for me is just I just

1055
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,840
Speaker 1: it's hard for me to you know, have most of

1056
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,240
Speaker 1: my wealth and something that I have no clue whether.

1057
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we're the price completely based on what other

1058
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: people think it's worth. That's it. Obviously that's true with equities,

1059
00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: right even at the end of the day, people are

1060
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: still determining what what the price of business as. Right,

1061
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: But if there's a business producing profits, there's something there

1062
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: that we there's some tetheror to reality at least something right,

1063
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 1: and you can go back. And because that warm Buffin

1064
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: initially got rich. He was he was finding businesses that

1065
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: we were called net nets, where after you sold everything,

1066
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:57,880
Speaker 1: you basically you buy the business for less than what

1067
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,919
Speaker 1: you could sell everything for. That's like buying a suit

1068
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: ace that you know has a thousand dollars in it

1069
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: for five hundred bucks. You know there's a thousand dollars

1070
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: in the suitcase and someone selling it too for five

1071
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 1: hundred bucks. Like you would make that trade all day.

1072
00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: And that's what warm Buffett did, right, So I think

1073
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: there is some tether to reality and that the money

1074
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 1: in the suitcases is profits, is income. Right now, the

1075
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: problem with crypto and art and all these other things,

1076
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: and I put them all in the same bucket is

1077
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,439
Speaker 1: that you know, we don't know what's going to happen.

1078
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 1: I have no idea whether these are gonna be worth

1079
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: things in the future. Right, Does that mean you shouldn't

1080
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 1: own any No, So I have about ten to fiftent

1081
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: of my assets spread out through um some physical art um,

1082
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: crypto and you know, yeah, so there's like the two

1083
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: main ones I do. It is probably about ten percent

1084
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: there and so yeah, so I think you can own

1085
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 1: something like I own some bitcoin and own some ethereum

1086
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: and things like that, but I don't think it should

1087
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:41,759
Speaker 1: be a bulk of your portfolio. And I think there's

1088
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 1: even a lot of people in the crypto space that

1089
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I keep it to five percent because

1090
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 1: it's extremely risky and like and as it goes up,

1091
00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 1: you need to rebalance, Like I at one point, you know,

1092
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: crypto is two or three of my portfolio. It got

1093
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: up to like eight percent of my portfolio, right because

1094
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: I had a bitcoin and I sold half of my

1095
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: bitcoin to kind of rebalance down, and people laughed at

1096
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: me and said it's crazy, and you know, how can

1097
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: you sell It's gonna go to a million bucks of

1098
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: coin and it may still do that. Who knows, but

1099
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: I think you need to be prudent and still rebalanced

1100
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: and do all the things you normally do, regardless of

1101
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: what's happening to underlying price, and right at the price

1102
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: I sold it at, just by chance, you know, is

1103
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: higher than where bitcoin is at, well, at least at

1104
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: the day of this recording. I have no idea where

1105
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: it's gonna be in a month, right, who does? Yeah?

1106
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: So like it. It could be a hundred thousand, it

1107
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 1: could be a twenty thousand, No one knows, right, so exactly. Nice. Well,

1108
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:28,440
Speaker 1: Nick Man, this has been a fun conversation. We appreciate

1109
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,239
Speaker 1: you again sharing the book with us ahead of time.

1110
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 1: And if folks are interested in checking it out, where

1111
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: can folks find Just keep buying Amazon, Yeah, just go

1112
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: to search. Just keep buying on Amazon. Otherwise you can

1113
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: get through a publisher at Harriman House as well, So awesome, man. Yeah,

1114
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: you can check out Nick's weekly blog post Tuesday mornings

1115
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 1: right on of dollars in data dot com to Yep,

1116
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: that's it, we'll be there. Awesome, Nick, Well, thanks for

1117
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: joining us, man, We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks Matt,

1118
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 1: thanks to appreciate you guys. Sweet awesome, man, what a

1119
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: great conversation with one of our favorite writers. Just the

1120
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,840
Speaker 1: serie again, the way Nick writes, it's so enjoyable to

1121
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:07,240
Speaker 1: read somebody who feels like he's he's connected to us

1122
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 1: as like normal people. I think a lot of times

1123
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: finance writers, folks who write about money, they could it

1124
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 1: almost seems like they're just a little too quant like

1125
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 1: a little too head in the clouds. But the way

1126
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: that Nick approaches money in particular, it just really resonates

1127
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,280
Speaker 1: with me. So check out his sight, like we mentioned

1128
00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 1: of dollars in data. Yeah, I agree, he uses like

1129
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,160
Speaker 1: a lot of graphs and a lot of data in

1130
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: his writing, but but it's still approachable. It's very approach exactly.

1131
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of people who are a

1132
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: lot of like super wonky blogs where they're using um,

1133
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: a lot of charts and language that's almost impossible to

1134
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,759
Speaker 1: comprehend even for someone who digs money and finance. But

1135
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,759
Speaker 1: Nick's is kind of like that uh, perfect presentation to

1136
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: a wider audience with some of that you know, nerdier

1137
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:48,680
Speaker 1: data include is that's right? Man? So yeah, so on

1138
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,600
Speaker 1: the note do you do you have? Are I kind

1139
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 1: of already hinted at what my big TAKEO is gonna be,

1140
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: So I'll let you get to yours first. Okay, I

1141
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: think mine literally is to just keep buying, Like that's

1142
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:59,640
Speaker 1: the title of the book. But it's also one of

1143
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: those things is where if you put money in every

1144
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 1: single paycheck for a long period of time, it is

1145
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:09,320
Speaker 1: going to have massive impacts on your ability to retire,

1146
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: on your ability to become financially independent. Like literally those

1147
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: three words I think are so impactful and it sounds

1148
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 1: so simple, and you can even start small, um perfectly,

1149
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 1: it starts young. Like the younger you start, the better

1150
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: off you're gonna be. But if you can just keep buying,

1151
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,720
Speaker 1: like week in, week out, every paycheck and and setting

1152
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 1: some money aside for your future self, like the difference

1153
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,839
Speaker 1: it makes because there are so many people who who

1154
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,759
Speaker 1: just like think, I don't have that much to be

1155
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: able to invest right now, I can buy I can

1156
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 1: only buy a little, so I'm not gonna buy any

1157
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 1: But you should buy a little, and you should get started,

1158
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 1: and then you can you should keep going, keep doing

1159
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 1: the same thing. And so it's kind of like how

1160
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: getting one percent better every day at the end of

1161
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: a year you're like, I don't know three or sixty

1162
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: five better, right, and like it just it compounds on

1163
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: itself and and that is one of the things that

1164
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,399
Speaker 1: your money in did is able to do for you.

1165
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: So just keep buying, keep buying those index funds, do

1166
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,400
Speaker 1: it regularly, and you're gonna be surprised and even potentially

1167
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: amazed years and years and years down the road. So

1168
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 1: simple but awesome. That can just be your morning mantra

1169
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: every morning when you when you wake up, that's what

1170
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,919
Speaker 1: you say to yourself, just to center yourself a little,

1171
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: myself in the mirror, do that, do the hume alone,

1172
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:20,719
Speaker 1: slap of the face, and yeah, just keep doing it. Okay.

1173
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: So my big takeaway it was gonna be when it

1174
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 1: comes to uh, discovering or figuring out whatever it is

1175
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: that you are going to spend your money on. We

1176
00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:32,040
Speaker 1: kind of touched on how retirees how a lot of

1177
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: I think Nick said, like one in six their portfolios

1178
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:37,120
Speaker 1: are growing, they're not actually drawing down, And we gotta

1179
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: figure out what it is that brings us joy, Like,

1180
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: what are the things that are going to bring us joy?

1181
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:43,719
Speaker 1: What are the things that we're gonna spend some money on?

1182
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: And we don't always know, especially right off, about what

1183
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:48,720
Speaker 1: those things are. And so he Nick mentioned a few things.

1184
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: But first of all, know yourself. Work on getting to

1185
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: know yourself and what it is that you are finding

1186
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: joy and satisfaction. But realize that you're gonna have to

1187
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: do some exploration. Realize that there's gonna be some trial

1188
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: and error along the way where you're not going to

1189
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 1: get things right. No, that waste will happen, Like there

1190
00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 1: is going to be money that that goes to waste,

1191
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:09,359
Speaker 1: there are going to be inefficiencies, and especially for someone

1192
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: like someone like myself who's a nerd, I don't want

1193
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: there to be any waste. I like for everything to

1194
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: be perfectly rationed, to be portioned out, uh and for

1195
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,759
Speaker 1: nothing to go to waste. And so that's kind of

1196
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: a difficult pill for me to swallow. But I know

1197
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 1: that that those attempts at perfect optimization mean you're missing

1198
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: out on enjoyable things you could have otherwise participated in. Absolutely. Yeah,

1199
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: So kind of having an open mind and being willing

1200
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: to just try new things, I feel like it's just

1201
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,959
Speaker 1: a good approach to life as well. Just be willing

1202
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,480
Speaker 1: to say yes to things, especially if you've never experienced

1203
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: them before, it's like, why not, let me let's give

1204
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 1: that a shot. Once you experience it, and once you've

1205
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: learned sure, it would be error upon error for you

1206
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: to continue to say yes to that thing. But before

1207
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: that happens, I think you need to be open to

1208
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 1: some of those things. All right, let me just off

1209
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:51,759
Speaker 1: from one mini tip on top of that, if it's

1210
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: a really expensive thing, try reading it first, see if

1211
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: you like it. So if you're like, I'm pretty sure

1212
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: jetski is gonna make me happy, or if you're like

1213
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure like having own fifth wheel is gonna

1214
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,840
Speaker 1: make me happy. Whatever it is, like we're going to

1215
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: see the country. Um, there are affordable ways to experiments.

1216
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 1: Give it a shot, experiment before you decide like I'm

1217
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: all in. Uh, it's when you're talking to huge sums

1218
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: of money. That's when you want to be careful before

1219
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: you take the plunge ahead of time. Wise words, Yeah,

1220
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,440
Speaker 1: there's there's a way to trial without error. Trial trial

1221
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: and rent exactly. Because if the rental costs you five

1222
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 1: hundred bucks or a thousand bucks, and it's ten thousand

1223
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: or a hundred thousand, yeah, those are big mistakes and

1224
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: you're gonna lose a lot of money on them. All right. Well, yeah,

1225
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 1: that was a great combo with Nick and great takeaways.

1226
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:33,920
Speaker 1: But yeah, let's get back to the beer that we

1227
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: had while we chatted with Nick. And this one is

1228
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: called La Folie. It's by New Belgium, and this is

1229
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: just like maybe the initial classic sour beer of all time. Matt,

1230
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: what was your take on this one? You know, I

1231
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 1: think it's about where I remember it. It's happened in

1232
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: a few years. It's been a minute, Yeah, it's been

1233
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:52,160
Speaker 1: it's been a few years. I remember always enjoying. Um,

1234
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: I think it was that's how war That was a

1235
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:56,040
Speaker 1: that was a great one. That's like a similar it's

1236
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 1: bakes like a sister beer to this one. It's very

1237
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: similar to this. But but yeah, like that said, the

1238
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 1: sour notes that you get with this when like they're

1239
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: in my mind, they're a bit more tart. At one

1240
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 1: point I almost tricked myself into thinking I was drinking

1241
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:09,239
Speaker 1: like a little bit of cranberry juice, you know, you

1242
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 1: know I'm talking about so like there's there's like a

1243
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:14,160
Speaker 1: tart dryness that sets this beer apart, Like there's no

1244
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: doubting that this is a sour, but personally I wish

1245
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: it was a touch sweeter, maybe a touch more funky nous.

1246
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: I think that's maybe one of the things that you

1247
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 1: get with a lettour is that there are just like funkier,

1248
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: more barrel like woody notes. And so while I enjoyed

1249
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 1: it, it it definitely wasn't my favorite beer. But it is

1250
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: a good introduction to sours, in particular if you've never

1251
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: had one before. I think this is a great intro,

1252
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 1: and especially if you like oak tones. I do think

1253
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: it has a lot of oak forward flavors going on

1254
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: and on the on the label actually says that it's

1255
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: got like green apple flavors going on, and I'm like, yeah,

1256
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 1: that's actually that's actually true. I'll see that. I'll say

1257
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,560
Speaker 1: that that is accurate. That description makes sense to me.

1258
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: But it's also I think it's like velvety smooth. And

1259
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:56,759
Speaker 1: so if you're looking for and I'm sure, yeah, you

1260
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: can get this beer and probably all fifty states. So

1261
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 1: if you're like, I've never tried sour beers, I've heard

1262
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: Matt and Joel raping about them, and you're like, well,

1263
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: which one should I start with? Well, This one is

1264
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: probably a great one because it's it's a nice middle

1265
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: of the road sour, easily accessible, easily drinkable, not too harsh,

1266
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:14,440
Speaker 1: not too crazy, not too funky, but still delicious. So

1267
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: this is probably one of the first ones I ever had.

1268
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: Quite literally, it was the first hour I ever had.

1269
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 1: Remember thinking there's no way that people drink this. Yeah,

1270
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,319
Speaker 1: the first sip you're like, uh, they're crazy, and then

1271
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 1: you quickly acquire a taste because it is delicious stuff. Um,

1272
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 1: And this is definitely a good one to start with.

1273
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 1: And it's also not terribly expensive. So even though I

1274
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: will say they I don't think they used to put

1275
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:35,759
Speaker 1: it in this format. It's like, and they used to

1276
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,880
Speaker 1: have it in big bottles, in seven fifty bottles, and

1277
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: this is a tiny, little three seventy five, and it

1278
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:42,479
Speaker 1: had the cork, it had the cage. It's like they're

1279
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 1: partaking in a little bit of shrink flation over here,

1280
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,919
Speaker 1: a little a little bit less beer for maybe close

1281
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: to the same price. You know, you're probably right. I

1282
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: think the big bottles used to be like twelve or

1283
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,720
Speaker 1: thirteen bucks, and this one was nine at half the size,

1284
00:52:54,719 --> 00:52:58,919
Speaker 1: So you're right, just like it is everywhere else, but yeah,

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00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this episode for folks who

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00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:03,160
Speaker 1: want the show notes will put links to nick site

1287
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: and Nix's book on our website at how to money

1288
00:53:05,680 --> 00:53:07,480
Speaker 1: dot com. That's right, and so that'll be it, Joel,

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00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: until next time, Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,