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Speaker 1: Do you know another parent or expecting parent. Are you

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Speaker 1: wondering what can I give them as a gift. Don't

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Speaker 1: give them another onesie, don't give them a plastic toy

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Speaker 1: or god forbid a toy gun that's just going to

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Speaker 1: end up in the garage. Give them something that matters,

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Speaker 1: and what matters the most is protecting their child. What

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Speaker 1: do you love most in the world your children? What

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Speaker 1: will you do to protect them anything. I sat down

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Speaker 1: with these smartest people I know in the world on

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Speaker 1: matters of child's safety, finding missing children, fighting back against predators,

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Speaker 1: and what I learned is so important, powerful and information

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Speaker 1: so critical. I want you to have it. I want

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Speaker 1: them to have it. Go to crimestops here dot com

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Speaker 1: for a five part series with action information that you

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Speaker 1: can use to change your life and protect your child

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Speaker 1: payment starting six ninety nine. Give that as a gift,

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Speaker 1: not another one ze. Find out how to protect your

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Speaker 1: child when you're out of the mall or the store,

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Speaker 1: or the grocery, in the parking lot at home. Find

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Speaker 1: out about protection regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. I'd

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Speaker 1: rather have that any day of the week than a

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Speaker 1: plastic toy or God forbid a toy gun. Join Justice Nation,

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Speaker 1: go to crime stops here dot com Crime stories with

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Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. R Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges.

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Speaker 1: The charges they filed against him were not statutory rape charges.

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Speaker 1: They filed child pornography charges. It's the same penalties, but

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Speaker 1: is easier to prove if you cannot hint it down

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Speaker 1: to a specific date. There was no date on the table.

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Speaker 1: What about the child? He ultimately has to face the

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Speaker 1: charges in the Chicago courtroom. He pleads not guilty and

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Speaker 1: post his bail and he's released after R Kelly please

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Speaker 1: not guilty. He goes straight to a South Side church.

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Speaker 1: He goes straight to an event where he is admired

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Speaker 1: by young children. Here he is being prosecuted for allegedly

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Speaker 1: having sexual underage girl, and ministers, civil rights leaders in

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Speaker 1: the city Chicago wanted to play up the side of

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Speaker 1: him that did the I believe I can fuck, and

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Speaker 1: not the side of him with the ronte lyrics that

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Speaker 1: kind of went along with possibly having sex with the

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Speaker 1: underage girl. And it really speaks to the duplicity of

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Speaker 1: R Kelly. Kelly posted bail and was allowed to continue

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Speaker 1: to you know, travel during the legal fight that he

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Speaker 1: was facing. There's no surprise that he continued business as usual.

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Speaker 1: That is from the hit documentary on Lifetime, Surviving R. Kelly.

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Speaker 1: But it's not just a TV movie. This is for real.

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Speaker 1: But why isn't R. Kelly the Musical Superstar behind bars?

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us. And yes, I know he is presumed

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Speaker 1: in a son until proven guilty, but this is overwhelming

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Speaker 1: and with me right now is a very special guest,

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Speaker 1: Lisa Van Allen and her recounting her time with R.

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Speaker 1: Kelly the Musical Superstar nearly broke my heart and I'm

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Speaker 1: not quite sure why cops and prosecutors aren't making a

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Speaker 1: move on R. Kelly. Listen. Tracy Sampson tells Dateline she

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Speaker 1: was a sixteen year old Internet epic records when she

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Speaker 1: met Kelly and they had a sexual relationship. I was

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Speaker 1: extremely uncomfortable. I wasn't sexually active. It just didn't feel right.

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Speaker 1: Kelly denied having sex with Samson, but settled out of

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Speaker 1: court for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. How did

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Speaker 1: you get his DNA after he had a spit on me?

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Speaker 1: I wiped it off, so you collected thee with my

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Speaker 1: T shirt. Gironda says. The shirts also has Kelly's semen

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Speaker 1: on it. This almost sounds like Montica Lewinsky. It's like

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Speaker 1: the blue dress, but it's the white T shirt. Oh,

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Speaker 1: it was a blue T shirt. Listen to Lisa Van

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Speaker 1: Allen as she explains how she got involved with R. Kelly.

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Speaker 1: I met him in nineteen ninety eight at the Home

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Speaker 1: Alone video shoot. I actually went with a friend of

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Speaker 1: mine's girlfriend. She was an extra and I went with

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Speaker 1: her and I was an extra as well, and he

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Speaker 1: actually had his cousin come up to me and that

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Speaker 1: he wanted to meet me. I wasn't sure who he

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Speaker 1: was when he told me. He said, Rob wants to

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Speaker 1: meet you. And I was asking who Rob was, and

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Speaker 1: he said R Kelly. So I went over to him.

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, surprised, because I was only seventeen

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Speaker 1: years old, so I didn't expect to meet him. There

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Speaker 1: were tons of grown women, bear strippers and other you

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Speaker 1: know things like that that he could have been interested

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Speaker 1: in meeting. But he picked out the youngest girl in

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Speaker 1: the crowd and I went to remit him, and he

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Speaker 1: asked me how old I was, and I told him

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Speaker 1: I was seventeen. His first question what his second question was,

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Speaker 1: will your mother let you come to Chicago? Lisa? Was

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Speaker 1: this before or after he was tried on that video

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Speaker 1: with the fourteen year old girl? Before listen when we

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Speaker 1: first started having sex. Rob was behind the camera and

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Speaker 1: I started popping the tapes in to see what was

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Speaker 1: on them. But I came across the one with meet

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Speaker 1: him and the fourteen year old bootleg cop is the

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Speaker 1: tape start showing up around the country. This is the

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Speaker 1: one that makes it almost impossible for people to pretend

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Speaker 1: that they did not know that this person had a

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Speaker 1: thing for little girls. Chicago sometimes contacted me to view

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Speaker 1: tapes that possibly had girls on it that I may

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Speaker 1: have known. That was her, my niece for sure, and

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Speaker 1: that was him. Police are investigating a video allegedly showing

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Speaker 1: the R and B singer having sex with a fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old girl. Chicago Police Department is currently seeking to

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Speaker 1: arrest mister Kelly. So, Lisa Van Allen, R. Kelly comes

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Speaker 1: up to you, amongst all the strippers and the women

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Speaker 1: ground women, he picks out a skinny little girl and

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Speaker 1: then what happens says how old are you? Then what happens?

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Speaker 1: And will your mom will let you come to my town? Right?

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Speaker 1: And then I mean, of course he knows I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to ask my mother at a video shoot, and

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Speaker 1: there's no we didn't have cell phones, you know that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, now, so I'm assuming he asked that

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Speaker 1: question just to see if I would agree to come

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Speaker 1: pretty much, you know what I mean? So, um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: So after that, then, um, so what did you What

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Speaker 1: did you say? But yeah, I said, yess, my mother

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Speaker 1: would allow me to come, but of course I didn't

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Speaker 1: ask her, you get what I mean? And that started it. Listen.

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Speaker 1: R Kelly is arrested on the Chicago charges. The charges

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Speaker 1: they filed against him were not statutory rape charges. They

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Speaker 1: filed child pornography charges. It's the same penalties, but is

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Speaker 1: easier to prove if you cannot hint it down to

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Speaker 1: a specific date. There was no date on the table.

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Speaker 1: What about the He ultimately had to face the charges

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Speaker 1: in a Chicago courtroom. He please not guilty and post

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Speaker 1: his bail and he's released. After R Kelly please not guilty,

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Speaker 1: he goes straight to a South Side church. He goes

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Speaker 1: straight to an event where he is admired by young children.

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Speaker 1: Here he is being prosecuted for allegedly having sexual underage

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Speaker 1: girl and ministers, civil rights leaders in the City Chicago

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Speaker 1: wanted to play up the side of him that did

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Speaker 1: the I believe I can fuck, and not the side

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Speaker 1: of him with the runty lyrics that kind of went

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Speaker 1: along with possibly having sex with the underage girl. You

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Speaker 1: are hearing from Surviving R Kelly on Lifetime. As we

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Speaker 1: all know, the supers musical superstar R Kelly was arrested

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Speaker 1: on child porn charges for making that grainy video with

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Speaker 1: a fourteen year old girl in a sex act. And

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Speaker 1: in the video you can clearly see a mole on

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Speaker 1: the back of R Kelly's back, which is the mall

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Speaker 1: on his back. But the girl would refuse to admit

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Speaker 1: that it was her, so the state ran up against

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Speaker 1: rock in a hard spot because they couldn't definitely prove

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Speaker 1: it was her. But Lisa Van Allen is with me

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Speaker 1: who lived with R Kelly, who I believe is one

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Speaker 1: of his victims. Lisa van Allen, do you believe the

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Speaker 1: girl was fourteen years old and that porn type? I

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Speaker 1: know she was fourteen because we actually had a you know,

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Speaker 1: a threesome with her, and at the time he told

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Speaker 1: me she was sixteen years old. I later found out

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Speaker 1: that she was two years younger than that. So because

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Speaker 1: we were headed to one of his video shoots. On

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Speaker 1: the way there, she told me that she was going

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Speaker 1: to beginning a PC cruiser for her sixteenth birthday. By

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Speaker 1: me doing the math, you know of how long ago

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Speaker 1: the first encounter was, it was two years prior to that.

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Speaker 1: So if you're just about the term sixteen in a

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Speaker 1: few weeks, then that would have made you fourteen when

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Speaker 1: we effect you want to encounter. About a year later,

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Speaker 1: after R. Kelly was arrested on the twenty one counts,

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Speaker 1: he was arrested again. He was in Miami and it

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Speaker 1: was on additional porn charges. We seized at that time

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Speaker 1: camera equipment and twelve digital photos which we believed to

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Speaker 1: the child pornography. You understand that anything you say, Jenna,

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Speaker 1: maybe us again. I remember being at my brother and

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Speaker 1: sister in law's house and the detectives showing us steals.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't pretty sight. They showed my niece, Robert and

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Speaker 1: another young lady intertwined and I screamed at the top

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Speaker 1: of my lins. What is going on? What is going on?

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Speaker 1: What is wrong with this person? You were hearing it

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Speaker 1: from Surviving R Kelly on Lifetime. I Nancy Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is crime stories. Thank you for being with us, with

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Speaker 1: us right now? Is an alleged victim of the musical

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Speaker 1: superstar R Kelly joining us now? It's R Kelly's defense

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Speaker 1: lawyer Steve Greenberg. Mister Greenberg, thank you for being with us. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm angry, I'm concerned, a little sick to my stomach

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Speaker 1: as No, actually I'm not. I would not be angry

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Speaker 1: if your client R. Kelly, Robert Kelly, went ahead and

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Speaker 1: turn himself in that then I'd be happy for what

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Speaker 1: Because it's hard for me to believe, mister Greenberg, that

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Speaker 1: all of these women are I assume you've seen the

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Speaker 1: Lifetime special Surviving R Kelly, that they're all lying and

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Speaker 1: your client is the only one telling the truth. Sparkle.

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Speaker 1: Sparkle told her story back when mister Kelly was arrested

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Speaker 1: and charged Karon Illinois more than a decade ago, and

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Speaker 1: the jury didn't believe her. Then she's just retelling the

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Speaker 1: same story that no one believed. The young lady who

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Speaker 1: she claimed was in the video, said it wasn't her.

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Speaker 1: The young lady's mother said it wasn't her. The young

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Speaker 1: lady's father said it wasn't her. So, you know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why everyone wants to believe Sparkle when the

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Speaker 1: people who are supposedly closer to the situation all say

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Speaker 1: she's not correct. Well, okay, you know what, Let's move

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Speaker 1: from Sparkle. Who Guy Sparkle is the aunt of the

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old girl in the video. According to the indictment,

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Speaker 1: the jury said they cannot determine that she was fourteen

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Speaker 1: or who she was with me today is Lisa Van Allen,

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Speaker 1: who lived with R. Kelly, who says she was picked

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Speaker 1: out of a group of women on a video shoot

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Speaker 1: Strippers grow Women come straight over to a skinny teen

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Speaker 1: girl and says, how old are you? Will your mom

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Speaker 1: will let you come to Chicago. She gets there and

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Speaker 1: he immediately enlists her for sex and a threesome. Now,

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Speaker 1: forget about Sparkling, the incident of the fourteen year old

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Speaker 1: girl in the video who was having sex with R.

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Speaker 1: Kelly and got urinated on. Now I'm talking about Lisa

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Speaker 1: Van Allen. He's with me right now you were there, Lisa,

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Speaker 1: exactly what happened when he asked you to have a

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Speaker 1: threesome with an underage girl? According to you, all right,

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Speaker 1: when he would ask me to have strengthome, you know,

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Speaker 1: I cry, I get upset and he would say, I

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Speaker 1: mean in one with the young lady that we're speaking

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Speaker 1: of from trial. When I cried about that one, he

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Speaker 1: got upset and said, what am I going to do

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Speaker 1: with this tape? What can I do with this? How

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Speaker 1: can I watch this with you on here crying? You know?

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Speaker 1: I mean he really got upset that he couldn't watch

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Speaker 1: that tape later year old on it hit me. I

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Speaker 1: mean he called this uf the pipee Can his lawyer

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Speaker 1: explain that you know what the pie piper is? The

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Speaker 1: pipe piper is a man who lorris children away from

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Speaker 1: their family. Do you do you, Steve Greenberg, know what

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Speaker 1: the pie piper is? I do? Okay, what if you

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Speaker 1: know what the pie piper is? What? I cannot explain

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Speaker 1: people's nicknames? And that's not really you don't have to.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have to explain it. I mean, the evidence

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Speaker 1: is there. I mean, go to Cook County court House.

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Speaker 1: How many women have you paid off that were underage.

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Speaker 1: Do you pay off people when you're not guilty? I

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Speaker 1: think twelve you do that when you're not guilty. Is

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Speaker 1: that the right number, Steve? Steve? Is that the right number?

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Speaker 1: There have been twelve young women with whom he has

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Speaker 1: reached civil settlements where he paid money to make their

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Speaker 1: claim go away in civil court Nat beyond saying that

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Speaker 1: people subtle civil cases for all sorts of reasons, including

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Speaker 1: the cost of litigation. Any settlement which I have never

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Speaker 1: scene are my understanding when people explain them are supposed

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Speaker 1: to be confidential. And therefore I believe that if I

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Speaker 1: were I was not involved in those cases, if they exist,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a lawyer on it, and if I say

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Speaker 1: anything about it, I would be subject to discipline from

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Speaker 1: the courts here. So I'm not going to let in

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Speaker 1: that situation since Rob is not Since since he believed

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Speaker 1: that Robert didn't do any of these things, why don't

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Speaker 1: they have Rob and all of us young ladies do

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Speaker 1: lie detective tests, Little roue who's telling the truth and

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Speaker 1: who's not. I'm not saying in the court of law,

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Speaker 1: just carry you just recording. Well, would he agree to

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Speaker 1: a lie detector? Steve Greenberg. I'll ask him. Okay, everybody

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Speaker 1: hold with me? Is Lisa Van Allen, unless victim of

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Speaker 1: musical superstar R Kelly, who created I Believe I Can

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Speaker 1: Fly and Steve Greenberg, R Kelly's defense attorney, along with

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Speaker 1: Nicol Debord, doctor Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, and Alexis Terres Chuck. Now,

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Speaker 1: alexis correct me if I'm wrong. But you've got Tiffany Hawkins.

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Speaker 1: They filed a ten million dollar lawsuit against Robert Kelly.

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Speaker 1: She says their relationship started when she was fifteen years

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Speaker 1: old and Kelly was twenty four. They settled four quarter

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Speaker 1: million dollars. Then you've got et epic records entering Tracy

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Speaker 1: Sampson in decent sex relationship when she was seventeen. That

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Speaker 1: was a settlement. Patricia Jones sued for impregnating her when

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Speaker 1: she was seventeen, and she says forcing her to get

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Speaker 1: an abortion. They settled out of court. Mantina Woods seeking

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Speaker 1: fifty grand over sex encounter in his recording studio out

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Speaker 1: of court, unknown settlement. Then there was the fourteen counts

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Speaker 1: of child porn. He was found not guilty on that.

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Speaker 1: Then there was detailed allegations from parents claiming their daughter

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Speaker 1: being held in a cold Okay, then you've got I'm

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Speaker 1: losing my voice. Your Honda Pace says she met Kelly

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Speaker 1: outside of his trial when she was fifteen, and he

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Speaker 1: started inviting her over and they started a sex relationship

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Speaker 1: that he would film the encounters that ended, and there

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Speaker 1: was apparently a settlement. Kitty Jones, was thatte Martinez? Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to run out of time naming

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Speaker 1: all these women. So none of those names ring a bell.

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Speaker 1: Steve Greenberg, Oh, they all ring a bell. But for example,

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Speaker 1: one of them you rattled off settled, you know, Sue,

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Speaker 1: because she was supposedly sexually assault in his studio and

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Speaker 1: she settled for fifty grand, And fifty grand is a

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Speaker 1: nuisance pain. The cost of someone like like mister Kelly

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Speaker 1: going to litigationigation is extremely expensive. Well, that's the one

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Speaker 1: where the number. I'm not a part of those agreements.

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Speaker 1: If they exist, I would know. I could tell you

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Speaker 1: that that if anyone's talking about them, and they do exist,

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Speaker 1: and they're breaching the agreements. So you've got people who

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Speaker 1: you know, stay. This is not about the women breaching

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Speaker 1: an agreement. This is about the fact that R. Kelly

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Speaker 1: has settled with we believe twelve women at least for

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Speaker 1: claims of underage sex or sex harassment. But hold on,

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something Lisa Van Allen said.

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Speaker 1: Does he call himself the pie Piper or do other

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Speaker 1: people call him that? He called himself the pie piper

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Speaker 1: on songs, He'll say it's the pie Piper, Okay, Just

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Speaker 1: to clarify for Steve Greenberg, who is R. Kelly's defense

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Speaker 1: attorney of renowned defense attorney, his jurisdiction. The pie Piper

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Speaker 1: of Hamlin as a story came out of Germany and

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Speaker 1: it was about a rat catcher that would play music.

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Speaker 1: He would play music and a pipe and it would

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Speaker 1: lure rats away. But then when no one would pay

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Speaker 1: him for what he did, he used his instruments magical

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Speaker 1: power and led the children away and they never came back.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't sound familiar that according to Lisa, it's what Kelly

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Speaker 1: calls himself. With me is Lisa Van Allen, ledged victim

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Speaker 1: of musical superstar R. Kelly who created I Believe I

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Speaker 1: Can Fly, and Steve Greenberg, r Kelly's defense attorney, along

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Speaker 1: with Nicole Debord, doctor Bethany Marshall, Vincent Hill, and Alexis

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Speaker 1: Terrez Chuck Lisa. If you could speak to R. Kelly

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Speaker 1: right now, what would you say? I would say, stop

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Speaker 1: hurting people. Stop hurting people. Why does he feel the need?

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Speaker 1: I mean they say hurt people, hurt people, but that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have to be true. I'd been hurt on multiple occasions,

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Speaker 1: and I don't want to hurt people. I'm here to

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Speaker 1: help people. I would tell him, get help and stop

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Speaker 1: hurting people. Send those girls home if they're not being

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Speaker 1: held against their will, let them don't see their family,

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Speaker 1: Let them go, and then they'll come back if they're

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Speaker 1: not being held against their will. You know, I always said,

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Speaker 1: I say it was me before me too, because I

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Speaker 1: came out before any of these movements were out, you know,

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Speaker 1: and nobody was listening back in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 1: But now we have a second chance to come back around.

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Speaker 1: He calls itself the pie Piper of R and D

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Speaker 1: for a reason. He tells us all of these names

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Speaker 1: in his songs. For a reason. He came up with

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Speaker 1: a J eight nothing but a number for a reason.

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Speaker 1: My book is called Surviving the Pie Piper. If you

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Speaker 1: want to get more in depth with my story. That's

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Speaker 1: where you can get you can get that on my website.

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Speaker 1: I'm Lucia van Allen. Hold On hold On Surviving the

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Speaker 1: Pied Piper by Lisa Van Allen to visit Hill Private

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Speaker 1: Investigator way in. So, I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: something Steve Greenberg said about he doesn't know why his

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Speaker 1: client is called the pie Piper. Listen said saying there's

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Speaker 1: truth in fiction. I mean, there's a reason there's a

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Speaker 1: line in one of our Kelly songs that says, I

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Speaker 1: could have sworn you were ready to go all the way.

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Speaker 1: He's talking to his young victims. And also he mentioned, oh,

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Speaker 1: he doesn't know why Lisa waited years to come forward

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Speaker 1: with her story. Well, me being a survivor of sexual

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Speaker 1: assault when I was seven years old, Nancy, I didn't

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Speaker 1: come out and tell anyone about that until a month

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Speaker 1: ago when I was on live TV. So sometimes it

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Speaker 1: does take years because it's not just physical, it's actually psychological,

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Speaker 1: and that's the bigger piece to get over Nancy, the

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Speaker 1: psychological piece. To Alexis to Reschuck, investigative journalist writer online

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Speaker 1: dot com, alexis, is there any chance he's going to

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Speaker 1: be prosecuted. So there's an open case right now in Chicago.

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Speaker 1: It is not exactly about any of the victims. What

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Speaker 1: the authorities are looking into is he has a recording

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Speaker 1: studio in Chicago, and they are saying that he used

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Speaker 1: this recording studio not for recording but as a personal home.

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Speaker 1: The implication being that perhaps women have been attacked in

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Speaker 1: this home. And so the city of Chicago has been

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Speaker 1: releasing photos from inside this recording studio and the only

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Speaker 1: musical thing in the photos that they have released is

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Speaker 1: one keyboard which is in a room next to a

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Speaker 1: massage table. All right, now, wait wait wait wait wait,

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Speaker 1: I've I've been in that studio is recently, is two

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Speaker 1: nights ago, And I actually think they're being respectful because

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Speaker 1: there is a full recording studio in that premise, is

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Speaker 1: with a large soundboard and place you know, instruments and all.

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Speaker 1: That's a soundproof room there. There's definitely the only time

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Speaker 1: in my life I was ever in a musical recording studio.

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Speaker 1: But there is a large room that looks like you

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Speaker 1: know what I've seen pictures over the years of a

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Speaker 1: recording studio. There's definitely a recording stureal and in fact,

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Speaker 1: he didn't build the recording studio. There was a gospel

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Speaker 1: singer who released that premisses before he did, who actually

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Speaker 1: was the one who built out. Okay, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you, Steve Greenberg having all the details of

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Speaker 1: what's in his studio and no details about all the

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Speaker 1: women living in his home. But I'm not falling for

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Speaker 1: look here, not there to doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst way in, well,

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Speaker 1: I think we're free. We're out Roman society. We're on

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Speaker 1: your radio show, Nancy, and we can speak our mind.

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Speaker 1: As we're talking. There are frightened women living in that

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Speaker 1: house who feel that they cannot go against r. Kelly.

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Speaker 1: Their food is being controlled, their clothing is being controlled.

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Speaker 1: They're being forced to have sex with each other, and

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Speaker 1: he is right now alienating them from their families. He has.

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Speaker 1: He initially, I am sure, lured them in by making

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Speaker 1: them feel that they were special. That was step one,

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Speaker 1: making them feel that they were the only ones that

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Speaker 1: they and they alone could free him from his sexual captivity.

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Speaker 1: He had never had a threesome before. At Lisa's talking

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Speaker 1: about and then when they protest, he begins to brainwash

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Speaker 1: them that they have a special mission. I'm sure they

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Speaker 1: want to reach out to their families. He is not

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Speaker 1: allowing them to do so. And at this point they

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Speaker 1: feel that because they have allowed themselves to go along

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Speaker 1: with him, that they are at fault. They are unable

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Speaker 1: to blame him, and thus the captivity is going to

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Speaker 1: go on and on until the courts really do what

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Speaker 1: they need to do. And Nicole Devoord, former felony prosecutor

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Speaker 1: now defense attorney, what can the courts do now? Oh,

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Speaker 1: the prosecutors can accept the charge and see what a

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Speaker 1: jury will do. And mister Greinberg will have an excellent

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Speaker 1: opportunity to relay all of the defense that he's relayed

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Speaker 1: to us today. He has some excellent points, and this

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Speaker 1: is a case that needs some critical thinking and I

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Speaker 1: expect that at some point some of these cases will

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Speaker 1: turn into charges. So, Steve Greenberg, I will personally go

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Speaker 1: before the Atlanta Fulton County Superior Court and ask that

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Speaker 1: you come in pro hot vich to represent Kelly. I'd

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Speaker 1: love to see yeah, yeah, because I really want to

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Speaker 1: see this go to court and that would enable you

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Speaker 1: to put all of your defenses in front of a

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Speaker 1: jury of twelve twelve Atlanta citizens who really would be

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Speaker 1: interested in finding out what's going on behind the closed

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Speaker 1: doors at R. Kelly's Mansions, one of the six properties

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Speaker 1: he owns Lisa Van Allen. Did he control what you

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Speaker 1: ate and wore? Well, what I wore, Yeah, but what

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Speaker 1: I ate not so much. It was one time where

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Speaker 1: I actually didn't wasn't able to eat, and I did

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Speaker 1: confront him about it and he actually made it where

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Speaker 1: it was, you know, like pay cash and stuff at

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Speaker 1: the studio for me. So that's why I say, I

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Speaker 1: feel like he's getting worse, because yes, he would control

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Speaker 1: what I wore. Like if I tried to wear something

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Speaker 1: that fit me cute and I wanted to go maybe

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Speaker 1: to the mall or something, then he'd had to see

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Speaker 1: what I had on, and if it wasn't something he

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Speaker 1: felt was appropriate, he'd have me put on some of

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Speaker 1: his clothing. So yeah, he did. Oh what do you

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Speaker 1: mean by something that wasn't appropriate? Like if that's form fitting,

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Speaker 1: maybe jeans that fit me cute and nice shirt, you know,

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Speaker 1: something like that. If it wasn't baggy, put it that way,

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Speaker 1: So then he'll just have me throw on something pit Okay, Now,

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Speaker 1: let me understand he would want you to wear baggy clothes. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: uh huh if it was anything form for Why why

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Speaker 1: would he want you to wear baggy clothes? I guess

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Speaker 1: because he wouldn't want it to be form fitting to

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Speaker 1: show my figure. You know, he'd asked if I wanted

429
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: to leave out the building, he'd want to see what

430
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: I had on, and if it was something that fit

431
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 1: me cute, he'd ask me to he'd have me put

432
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 1: on like some sweatpants or a pair of his clothing.

433
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 1: He wears two eggs and at that time I was

434
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: like a bote too, so he'd have me put on

435
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,520
Speaker 1: his big So he would have you wearing is double

436
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 1: ex clothing as opposed to your siss. Okay, another question,

437
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 1: what do you make of these ladies claims that he

438
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: beats them? I believe it because he did. He's actually

439
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 1: hit me before. He does didn't beat me on the regular,

440
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 1: but he did. He smacked me before when I spoke

441
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: to someone that I wasn't that he felt like I

442
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: shouldn't have spoke to he um spanked me before and

443
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,720
Speaker 1: until I cried before and then afterwards he told me

444
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: he loved me, and he just wants to teach me

445
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 1: and like as if I was a child, you know,

446
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: and you know, at the end of the day, I

447
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: just want to help abuse victims like that. You know.

448
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,159
Speaker 1: That's part that's wh wh White White Wall White. He

449
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: spank to you till you cried to teach you what

450
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: that's what I was he teaching you. Yeah, it's like

451
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: he's sick. He it's like he thinks he's your father something,

452
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: you know, because I mean, that's what you go back,

453
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 1: Why did he say that he was Why did he

454
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: say he was hitting you? Because I got because I

455
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,439
Speaker 1: didn't listen. I was talking to someone I wasn't supposed

456
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: to be speaking to. So he was upset about that.

457
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 1: Who were you talking too? Who were you talking to?

458
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: His entourage? I don't really know exactly who it was,

459
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 1: but we were all on the tour bus and I

460
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 1: spoke to someone and he got upset about it. And

461
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: then he pulled me in the bathroom and pulled my

462
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: pants down and he spanked me. And at first I

463
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: wasn't crying, because you know, a spank game is a spanking,

464
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: but he kept doing it harder and harder until I cried.

465
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: Classic signs of an abuser Nancy classic. When was it,

466
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: Lisa that he hit you? And when he smacked you,

467
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,160
Speaker 1: it was pretty much the same situation. We were all

468
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: chilling or whatever. And see the thing is he doesn't

469
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: want you to speak to any male period. No, one

470
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: don't speak to him. And it's for a really normal

471
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: reaction if someone says high team to speak back. You know,

472
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm a friendly person. So I spoke back and he

473
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: pulled me into the tour bus in the in the

474
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: bathroom and he smacked me for speaking to rooms. So,

475
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: Lisa Van Allen, I hope we meet again. Who sheriff

476
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,959
Speaker 1: and a new push to solve who murdered seventeen year

477
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: old Maggie Long and why people are upset about it.

478
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's a young, beautiful woman and I agree completely.

479
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: You know, it's something that we need to go after.

480
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: It sad to be greatly to tell you that Maggie

481
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: was purposely set on fire and burned alive. Cheff Tom

482
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: mccross has hundreds of tips that poured in crucial witnesses

483
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: coming forward months after the crime. People are curious. We're

484
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: also getting our first look inside the crime scene. Snapshots

485
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: of the chart home also knew more money for information

486
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: leading to an arrest. The reward has now doubled to

487
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars. A seventeen year old little girl, Maggie Long,

488
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 1: burned alive. I, Nancy Grace, this as Crime Stories, thank

489
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: you for being with us. With me an all star panel,

490
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, Director of the Cold Case Research Institute CSI, expert,

491
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: renowned criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor Daryl Cohen joining me

492
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: now from LA psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall. But to Robert

493
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: Olinsky Crime online dot Com investigative report order Robin, a

494
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl burned alive? Who in the world

495
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: would do such a horrendous thing. The original reporting from

496
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: back in twenty seventeen December when this situation went down,

497
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 1: is that the police believe that there were three men

498
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: in three cars that came to that house, that targeted

499
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: that house Nancy to steal. There was a burglary, but

500
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 1: I don't think they counted on this seventeen year old

501
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: senior high school senior, Maggie Long, being there. And there

502
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 1: was a fire in the home and neighbors were calling

503
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: nine to one one to report a fire, and then

504
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 1: when the investigators went there, she was set on fire

505
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: and was found dead. Oh my stars, we are learning

506
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: this seventeen year old girl, Maggie, She's got this big,

507
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: beautiful smile. Burned alive. Investigators with Park County have just

508
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: announced a major reward fifty thousand dollars and a new

509
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: website they hope will lead straight to her killers. Maggie

510
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: was purposely set on fire and burned alive. To Cold

511
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: Case Research Institute Director of Cheryl McCollum man, that must

512
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: have been a heart breaking crime scene. I mean even

513
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: the photographs are difficult to look at. Now. We all

514
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: know in this business and a lot of times the

515
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: fire is set to cover up other crimes, whether it's

516
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: a sexual assault or something that was poured on her.

517
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: They're trying to get rid of something. It does look

518
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: like she possibly interrupted a bird. Learning that appears to

519
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: be their motives, things that they've spent a lot of

520
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: time in the house. They weren't in a hurry to

521
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: get out. Kindle reminds me of the all day murders,

522
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 1: where you know these three people or five in that

523
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: situation decides, Hey, we're gonna murder these people in such

524
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: a whole horrific manner, But it does look like she

525
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 1: fought back and perhaps one of them was injured as well.

526
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: But we were learning from Sheriff McGraw at least one

527
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: of the men involved in the murder may have sustained

528
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: an injury in the fire they set to kill seventeen

529
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: year old Maggie. We've got a sketch of that guy

530
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: and you can see it at crime online dot com

531
00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: with this and all other breaking crime news. We also

532
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: know that same day, Maggie was to go to a

533
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: concert at her high school and she was in charge

534
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: of the VIP section. She went home to get cookies

535
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: and water for the audience, telling all of her friends,

536
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: I'll be right back. She was never seen alive again.

537
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: Now the sheriff says one of the suspects again may

538
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: have sustained an injury in the fire that sketch on

539
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: crime online dot Com. We know that the home likely

540
00:32:54,800 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: was being burglarized. But since the fire, to Robin Willinski,

541
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: I want to find out what if any developments have

542
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: been made in finding the people that burned this teen girl.

543
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: Hold On, Doctor Bethany Marshall wants in la psychoanalyst, Doctor

544
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: bethany Way in the fact that they actually burned a

545
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: seventeen year old girl, tells me that she actually might

546
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: have known the perpetrators. This is a very small community.

547
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: She came home on a break to get cookies and

548
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: water for the drama community, and she came upon a crime.

549
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: So she was a victim of somebody who was perpetrated

550
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: against as a part of the commission of another crime.

551
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: But what if she knew these boys? These were young men,

552
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: So the fact is she may have recognized them, and

553
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: they panicked, they did something to her, and then hastily

554
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: they tried to destroy the evidence. This little girl's body

555
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: was found inside of her own burned home. She had

556
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: just come home to get cookies and waters for a

557
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: concert to give to VIP guests at the high school concert.

558
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 1: To Daryl Cohen, criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, Daryl, we

559
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 1: know the father kept guns in the home, and apparently

560
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: that was the target of the burglary. But who would

561
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: know those guns were there. It had to be someone

562
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:19,240
Speaker 1: who was familiar with her. It had to be people

563
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,720
Speaker 1: that knew that she had a family that had guns.

564
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: So this Brakes reeks to me of someone who was

565
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: going after those guns, and they were stunned and surprised.

566
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: And I agree that they knew who she was, and

567
00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: worse than that, she knew who they were. So when

568
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:41,279
Speaker 1: she was home, they had to do something to make

569
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: sure that she kept her mouth shut. And the worst

570
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 1: thing they could have done is what they did. They

571
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: not only killed her, but they tortured her by burning,

572
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: and that is just outrageous and unbelievable to me. You know,

573
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: you're right, because what we're learning, Sheryl McCollum, is that

574
00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: she was burned alive. And I guarantee you this was

575
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: somebody that knew that family, no question about it. And again,

576
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,800
Speaker 1: the level of just any humanity, when you're talking about

577
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:14,480
Speaker 1: burning somebody alive, it's beyond torture. So again, the evidence

578
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: there in the home. Hopefully, and this sounds horrible, but

579
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: with the soot and whatnot, where they touched other things

580
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:29,319
Speaker 1: might have preserved the finger prints perfectly. Hopefully the gun,

581
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,319
Speaker 1: one of the guns might show up, because there's an

582
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: AK forty seven, a nine millimeter Baretta and over two

583
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,840
Speaker 1: hundred rounds of ammunition. So again, these folks, you know,

584
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: law Off wasn't like to say, well, they probably got

585
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: rid of those weapons fast. They didn't ditch them. They

586
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 1: might have sold them or something to another person. But

587
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,400
Speaker 1: I think they'll show up in another crime. Who burned

588
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: seventeen year old Maggie Long Alive? Tipline three zero three

589
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: two three nine four two four three pete three zero

590
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: three two three nine four two four three. There is

591
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: a fifty thousand dollar reward. We wait as justice unfalls.

592
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace conn Story is signing off Goodbye friend,