WEBVTT - Thais Gibson: How Attachment Styles Control Your Love Life and How to Reprogram It 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:10.799 We need to learn what our needs are. 0:00:11.039 --> 0:00:13.800 Everybody has needs in a relationship, and actually needs in 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:15.720 a relationship are so understated. 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:18.840 Tys Gibson is a relationship coach, best selling author from 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:20.600 the founder of Personal Development School. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.599 The analogy I often give to people as somebody with 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.200 a different attachment style than you. It's almost like you 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:26.880 sit down to play a board game and you have 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.160 the rules for Monopoly and I have the rules for Scrabble. 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:32.400 It's going to cause like a lot of unnecessary misunderstandings. 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.200 It's safe to express emotions, it's okay to be vulnerable, 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:37.159 to rely on other people and to trust them. They 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.560 get this really healthy modeling, and as they grow older, 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.280 they also get modeling for how to communicate and negotiate 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:44.440 their needs and how to have healthy boundaries. 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.440 I'm Razzi da Vlukia and on my podcast A Really 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:51.479 Good Cry, we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.440 a space for raw, unfolded conversations that celebrate vulnerability and 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.760 allow you to tune in to learn, connect and find 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.880 comfort together. Thank you so much for being here. I 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.360 am so grateful to you. I have been binge reading 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.560 your books and I am so grateful that you have 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:10.679 done so much of the work for us so we 0:01:10.760 --> 0:01:13.280 can understand things so simply through your words. 0:01:14.280 --> 0:01:15.920 And I just want to get straight into it. 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:21.000 So tell me how you started learning about attachment theory 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:22.560 and what got you interested in it. 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.680 So I grew up in like a very chaotic household, 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:28.440 for sure, and I was a very sensitive child. So 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:30.240 I have a younger sister, and I think as a 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:31.920 child that was parentified a lot. So I was kind 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:33.080 of put in the middle of a lot of the 0:01:33.240 --> 0:01:36.600 chaos and the drama my parents went through, like a 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:39.319 twenty year divorce that went to the Superior Court of Canada, 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:40.880 just one of those things. And I think I grew 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.280 up as like the sensitive person, kind of thinking like, 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:46.520 why can't it be different? Why do people who love 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.120 each other? And I knew they really cared about each 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:49.960 other and they were very loving, like my parents are 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:52.880 very good hearted people, but they just really brought out 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:56.560 really difficult sort of sides to one another. And so 0:01:56.760 --> 0:01:58.320 I think from a very young age, I was really 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:01.640 interested in human behavior. I think it's difficult. I'm not 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.160 recommending that people parentify their children and put them in 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:06.800 the middle of things, but I think the silver lining 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.760 for me was that I actually really love human behavior 0:02:09.880 --> 0:02:11.959 and learning about people. And I think from a young 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.600 age I was kind of immersed in this environment where 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:17.280 I was, in a sense, being forced to learn about 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.040 a lot of why people do the things that they do. 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.799 And I became very curious at a young age, and 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:25.359 so I internalized a lot, went through my own sort 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.960 of struggles both personally and in relationships, and then did 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.119 a lot of healing work and was like, how can 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.720 I go into my adult life feeling like relationships aren't 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:37.160 scary and aren't so chaotic and so difficult. And a 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:38.840 lot of the work and healing that I had to 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:43.520 do with myself ended up being the things that actually 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:45.560 brought me into this sort of realm of work later on. 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.680 So a big part of my focus became, Okay, well 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.560 how can I go into not just how we understand 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:54.160 our attachment styles, but how can we change them? Because 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.120 I was a fearful, avoidant attachment style, which is a 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:59.000 tricky one, and I was very hot and cold, and 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:00.880 I think at that point it was like, well, I 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.520 don't want to live like this forever and feel like 0:03:02.560 --> 0:03:05.440 relationships are difficult like this, and so doing that work 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:08.480 with myself first and becoming securely attached and then allowed 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:10.200 me to bring that out to other people as well. 0:03:10.280 --> 0:03:13.000 And what was your first experience with attachment styles? And 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:15.000 just we know what, before we do that, could you 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.960 just give anybody, everybody that's listening an overview of what 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.200 attachment theory is. 0:03:19.360 --> 0:03:21.320 Yes, I feel like we're using the tab and feeling 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:22.320 wait what is that? 0:03:23.120 --> 0:03:25.320 Absolutely so attachment theory. 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:27.240 We can think of it in a simplified manner as 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.320 being basically the subconscious set of rules you have for love. 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.520 So if you grow up that yeah, and it's sort 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:34.800 of like we all have this rule book. And the 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.720 analogy I often give to people is somebody with a 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.400 different attachment style than you. It's almost like you sit 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:40.960 down to play a board game and you have the 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:43.200 rules for Monopoly and I have the rules for Scrabble, 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:46.320 and it's going to cause like a lot of unnecessary 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.880 friction and misunderstandings and miscommunications because we're like, what do 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:51.640 you mean, We're supposed to be doing it this way. 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.840 And so that's really what our attachment style is. And 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.240 it was originally the Body of Work was originally born 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.840 from John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworths out of care University 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:04.200 decades ago, and then a lot of that original research 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.280 I learned in like first year psych at university. But 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:10.400 it's sort of like it's really profound in a sense, 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.800 but it talks about the four attachment styles, but it 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.040 doesn't talk about how we can change our attachment style, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:18.120 how we can become secure, how we can recondition. Basically, 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.560 and we know we have neuroplasticity and so because of that, 0:04:21.600 --> 0:04:24.240 we can change our attachment style. So that's where our 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.080 body of work was born from there. But the four 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.040 major attachment styles out of John Bolby's work are number one, 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.680 the securely attached child. Securely attached children obviously grow up 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:34.720 as secure adults, and they grew up in a household 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:37.120 where there's a lot of what we call approach oriented behaviors. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.800 So basically there's a lot of when a child is 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:44.039 in distress, crying, feeling sad, the parent will go towards them, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.120 and through those approach oriented behaviors, it actually conditions the 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.359 child to feel like I'm worthy of love, It's safe 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.200 to express emotions. My needs will get mad if I 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.880 express emotions. It's okay to be vulnerable to rely on 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.000 other people and to trust them, and so they get 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:00.599 this really healthy modeling, and as they grow, they also 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:03.480 get modeling for how to communicate and negotiate their needs 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:05.840 and how to have healthy boundaries. So they grow up 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.880 to have that framework to become really secure adults because 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.680 of that framework model to them as children. And then 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:15.440 there's the three insecure attachment styles. One is the anxious preoccupied. 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:18.039 This is somebody that tends to have a lot of 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.880 either real or perceived abandonment in childhood. So it can 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.520 be that they either literally go through an abandonment where 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:27.240 a parent is divorced and they kind of move out 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.440 of the household and they're not around very much. Or 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.680 it can also be a lot of very loving emotions 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.280 and actions from caregivers, but maybe they're working all the time, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.200 so it's sort of like, yeah, so it's like love 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.200 is there, love is taken away. Love is there, Love 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.960 is taken away, And that repetition and emotion fires and 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.680 wires those neural pathways for a person to constantly fear 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.200 abandonment and fear that the other shoe will drop, and 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.440 so they become the clinging individuals. Sometimes in adult relationships 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:57.480 because that's their way of trying to cope and maintain proximity. 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:00.440 And okay, so that was this team will right go 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:02.760 through them and then then we're going to go through 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:04.280 them in depth. But I feel like if they hear 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.960 the terms, you'll be really useful to them when we're 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:07.719 going back through it. 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:08.480 Absolutely. 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:10.760 So on the other end of the spectrum, there's the 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.920 dismissive avoidant. Dismissive avoidance usually grow up with the overarching 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.520 theme being childhood emotional neglect, and sometimes even in mashment 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.560 and so childhood emotional neglect causes a child when they're 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.440 very young to go, something must be wrong with me 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:25.800 that I can't get my needs met because we're literally 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:31.040 wired for attunement, for connection, for emotional responding from our caregivers, 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:35.000 and so a child internalizes it because they every child 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:36.040 internalizes everything. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:37.599 That's how the mind works when they're learning. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:39.839 And so a child can't go, oh, my parents are 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.880 emotionally unavailable, so instead they go, something must be wrong 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.080 with me. And so they tend to be the ones 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.520 that are afraid to even bond too much in terms 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.640 of relationships, and they constantly keep people at bay and 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:52.599 try to keep a distance because they don't want to. 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:54.280 Feel like that again as adults. 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.680 And so that's or dismissive avoidant. They tend to fear 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:58.880 commitment as adults, they tend to sort of be a 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.080 little slur to warm up, a little more stand offish. Yeah, 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:04.120 and last, but not least, it's the fearful avoidant. 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:04.919 This is what I was. 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.160 Fearful avoidance grub usually in chaotic childhood, so it can 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:09.440 be a lot of fighting in the home. It can 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.680 be parentification, but it can also be more extreme things 0:07:11.760 --> 0:07:15.960 like having a cluster B personality disordered parent, somebody with 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.280 borderline personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder, or it can 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.520 also be that you have parents who maybe struggle with addiction. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.840 And basically the overarching theme is like you have some 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:29.280 really good moments with love and connection, some really nice ones, 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.600 but some really scary ones or kind of horrific ones, 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:33.920 and so you never know what you're going to get. 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.160 And if you imagine, like an example of a parent 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.200 who's an addict, let's say mom's an alcoholic. As an example, 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.840 one day Mom comes home, she's had too much to drink. 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:46.240 She's scary, she's confusing. Another day she's had too much drink. 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:48.800 She's in a great mood. Another day she's so bering 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.200 up and she's in a really bad mood. She's detoxing. 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:54.000 Another day she's sober and she feels guilty about her behavior. 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.520 So she's kind and it's like you just don't know 0:07:56.560 --> 0:07:58.280 what you're going to get at any point in time. 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.000 And so a child like that up in a household 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:03.600 and then feels as an adult like they want love, 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.240 but when it gets too close, they get scared, and 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:08.080 so they're very hot and cold and pushion, pull, and 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:08.760 it's sort of like. 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:10.840 Come here, come here. If somebody gets closer, like get back. 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.640 Yeah, And so they give a lot of mixed messages 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:15.880 because a lot of that is like the internal feelings 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:17.360 that they're caring and responding to. 0:08:17.480 --> 0:08:19.280 So those are the four for major here. 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:21.400 That was really informative. And I feel like when I 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.600 read through your book and I was reading through all 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:26.720 these attachment styles, I could think of different people in 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:29.880 my life who carry different qualities, and what it really 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.200 made me think was, God, it helps me feel so 0:08:33.440 --> 0:08:36.400 much empathy towards the people in my life, not even 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:40.840 just empathy but understanding of myself, understanding of other people, 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.960 but so much more compassion for it. And I think 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:48.400 that these styles help you to connect not just to 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:51.440 your partner, not just to your parents, to but every 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:53.280 single person that you come into contact with. You can 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:56.240 kind of start understanding their behavior and therefore have more 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.360 of a compassionate nature. Where you're thinking, this all stems 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.800 from like a that was either neglected or grew up 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.520 in a really difficult environment, and those things are being 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:06.520 carried with us. 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:08.319 So how does. 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.760 One go from you know, hearing this where you hear 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.240 what the attachment styles are and being like, oh this 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.880 is me or oh this is my partner, this is 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:17.320 my mom. 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.200 What do we then do about it? 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:22.400 Like? How how does one How did you start to 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.319 heal yourself and what would you know? You said you 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:26.400 did a lot of healing work. What were the healing 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.880 techniques that really helped you? And how do we move 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:34.000 through these towards being a secure? Can everyone be a secure? 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:34.560 Yes? 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:38.560 Yes, everybody can be sec It does require work, Like 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.440 I would say, the caveat is if somebody's not really 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:42.360 willing to do the work, and that's where the sort 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.360 of the glass ceiling arises. 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:46.720 But I did. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:46.960 So. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.040 I first started in client practice after doing a lot 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:50.960 of my own work, and I saw over the course 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.000 of about a decade, almost eighteen I went through almost 0:09:53.000 --> 0:09:56.480 eighteen thousand client slashs. And if people are willing to 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.760 do the work, people become secure. If somebody came in 0:09:59.800 --> 0:10:01.520 and they were willing, but they dragged in their partner 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.760 who was unwilling, that would be where like that that 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:04.760 there's not much you can. 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:05.200 Do past that. 0:10:05.679 --> 0:10:07.839 So my original background was actually I came out of 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:12.280 school for psychology, went into specializing in hypnosis, and I 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.680 really wanted to learn how we can really change our 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.000 subconscious mind. So one of the things I learned in 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.080 school was that your conscious mind cannot outwill or overpower 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:24.400 your subconscious mind, which to me was like mind blowing 0:10:24.400 --> 0:10:26.720 because it was like, oh, that's why everybody every New 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.319 Year's it's like I'm gonna quit eating chocolate and seven days. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:30.640 Later they're back to the same thing. 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:33.160 Or we set all these goals but we don't follow through. Well, 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.320 it's because we're not engaging the subconscious mind in the 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:39.040 process of transformation. So I got into hypno therapy did 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.839 like this year long certification and all of that, did 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:43.400 a lot of like NLP, a lot of these things 0:10:43.400 --> 0:10:46.560 to really understand how the mind works, and then started 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.720 doing client sessions with hypnosis and was like, kind of 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.040 I thought the power dynamics were strange. I felt like 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.679 it was like give the mani fish instead. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:55.680 Of tea into fish. 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.680 And I was like, what, I'd rather spend time telling 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:01.360 people how their subconscious works and how they can recondition it. 0:11:01.440 --> 0:11:03.680 Because when you look at hypnosis and you pair that 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:07.840 with neuroplasticity research, there's like a science behind transformation. So 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:09.720 there's a lot of tools we can use to change 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.360 our subconscious mind, which is how the needle actually moves. 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.160 So what I found over about. 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:18.079 Ten years of working with people was that there's basically 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:21.680 four major categories and two kind of minor ones that 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.280 we have to focus on in order to become securely attached. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:28.120 The first is reprogramming our core wounds. So we all 0:11:28.160 --> 0:11:31.440 have core wounds, and they're basically like our relationship baggage. 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.160 So if I grew up for example, for me, I 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:35.800 grew up in an environment where there was a lot 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:37.640 of chaos, and so I really had a hard time 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.240 trusting because I was kind of like, if my parents 0:11:40.280 --> 0:11:43.319 are betraying trust, like how will I trust anybody? And 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.800 so you know that's an I am betrayed core wound. 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.520 And each attachment style actually has very unique core wounds. 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:53.960 Anxious attachments have more like I'll be abandoned, I'll be alone, excluded, disliked, rejected, 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:56.760 dismissive avoidance are more like I'll be seen as defective 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.880 or something's wrong with me because of that internalized shame wound. 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.600 I'll be weak, if I'm vulnerable, it's unsafe to open up. 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:06.960 I'll be trapped, helpless, powerless. Fearful woids basically have both 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:08.920 sides because they have that anxious end of winds, so 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.600 a little more core wound reprogramming, but they also have 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.040 this core wounded I'll be betrayed, I'm unworthy, and I 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.440 am bad, like feeling like people will get them in 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.439 trouble or punish them for no reason. So a lot 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:22.880 of the first work I did just of my own accord, 0:12:23.200 --> 0:12:26.760 was doing a ton of core woundery programming, which is 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.920 based on how we can sort of self hypnotize when awake. 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.800 It's not like really in a process of hypnosis at all. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:37.040 It's just a process of like firing and wiring neural pathways. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.280 We can always talk about like a tool or something later. 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.480 There's some really easy takeaways that people could get started. 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:43.200 On immediately who are less. 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:45.600 So first we have to get all of those ideas 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:48.040 out of our subconscious mind. Because if I'm going into 0:12:48.040 --> 0:12:50.480 trying to love somebody and I'm like, well, I'm going 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:51.920 to be betrayed, I'm going to be a band, and 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.920 I'm going to be trapped, and all these fears are there, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:56.480 then it makes it really difficult to let our guard 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.960 down or to feel normal. So we have to recondition 0:12:59.040 --> 0:13:01.120 those ideas. We're not born with them, they get conditioned 0:13:01.160 --> 0:13:03.760 into us. We can recondition them of the same court. 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:05.959 And so I guess that first step what I'm hearing 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:10.640 from you is identifying, like learning and learning yourself and 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.920 identifying what is my mind thinking in that moment, like 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:16.199 noticing it, because I think a lot of us go 0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:19.440 on autopilot. If you've had it from such a young age. 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:21.680 You know, I'm going into a room, whether it's with 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:24.079 my partner or whether it's with my friends, and the 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:26.840 first thing I'm thinking is, oh, if I act in 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:28.600 this way, they're not going to like me. Like let's 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:30.600 say that's let's say that's the initial thought that comes 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.400 into my mind. But you become so used to having 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.640 those thoughts that they don't feel abnormal, they feel so 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.560 part of you. They feel like they are are your normality. 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:44.360 And so I think, yeah, the identifying part is so 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:47.840 important when you actually start listening and hearing what is 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:50.079 going through my mind as I'm going through the world, 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:53.160 what is going through my mind as I'm interacting with 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.240 my partner, with my close friends, with the people that 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.360 I'm closest to, how am I reacting to things? And 0:13:59.400 --> 0:14:03.199 so okay, step one, identify exactly, and. 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.840 It's really identify and then do the reprogramming work. So 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:08.080 we'll give a tool in a little bit too, but 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:09.480 I'll sort of go through the few and then I 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.480 can come back to a tool for actually how to recondition, 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:13.440 but exactly to your point, like, we have to know 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.719 what it is first, and so a great way that 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.160 people can discover it is whenever we're triggered, So whenever 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:23.360 we're feeling stressed or sad or emotional, if we can 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.720 really anchor in the situation, So it's when my partner 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.480 didn't call me back, for example, what do I make 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.960 it mean about me? And if we can ask ourselves 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.040 that question, it's a really good way of retrieving the 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:36.600 core wound. It's based in cognitive behavioral therapy, and so 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:39.160 when we see that, we can go, oh, well, I'm 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:42.560 making that mean that I'm going to be abandoned, yes, 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.600 Or I'm making that mean I'm disliked or rejected, or 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.760 I'm making that mean that you know, I'm with the 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.440 wrong person, I'm going to be trapped, you know. So 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.200 we each have like really individual meaning, and when we 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.800 can look at times we felt really emotional or triggered 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.160 and ask ourselves, what do I make that mean about me? 0:14:57.600 --> 0:14:59.920 We'll see clearly what those core wounds tend to be. 0:15:00.320 --> 0:15:02.200 So that's sort of the first way to pull them up, 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:03.640 and then we can do the reprogramming. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.400 So what do I so identify and then what do 0:15:06.440 --> 0:15:07.560 I make what was it? 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.080 What would I make this mean about me? 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:10.960 What would I make this mean about me? I can 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:12.720 say relate to that. The first thing that I thought 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:15.920 of when you said that was, I remember when me 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.840 and my husband first got married, he would have this 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.280 habit of when he would come into the door, he 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:25.160 would leave his shoes right by the door, and I 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:27.240 would be in my mind, I would be thinking, what 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:28.920 does he think I'm just going to pick up after him? 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:30.400 Is that why he's leaving it by the door. 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:34.080 He thinks that it's my responsibility to pick those shoes 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.280 up and put them away. And it kept tearing away 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:38.880 at me over and over again. And when I thought 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.960 about what that meant for me, it was because I 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.840 felt like I felt insecure about being at that time 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.760 a housewife. Where I was where I was staying at 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:49.680 home and he was working, and that was a shift 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.560 that I had just made, and it was something that 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.920 I felt insecure about. And so constantly any actions he 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.000 was taking, which he didn't mean it to be that, 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.440 my interpretation was, Oh, so he's leaving that though, because 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:02.760 he thinks I should be doing this. 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:03.960 And then I spoke to. 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:06.080 Him and he was like, no, I'm so happy doing it. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:08.120 I just you know, at that moment in time, it's 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:09.960 not when I want to pick this up or when 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:11.680 I want to do that. But I would have done 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.000 it an hour later, or I would have done it 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.720 in my own time. And so the interpretation that I 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:18.680 had made for myself was so different to what his 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:19.880 meaning actually. 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:21.440 Were exactly exactly, but it. 0:16:21.400 --> 0:16:24.080 Was purely based on my insecurities or things that I 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:27.320 felt maybe in the past, or having to look after someone, 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:30.400 you know, whatever it was, it was definitely stemming from 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.560 something far beyond just the shoes that were left in 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:33.240 front of the door. 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.960 So that's so cool. It's such a good example. 0:16:36.040 --> 0:16:37.920 So if you go a step further, it just tell 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:39.680 me if either one of these resonate with you, I 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.760 don't matter, I'm I am unimportant, or I am disrespected. 0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:47.840 I think that I am unimportant definitely stems from even 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:51.000 school times where I never felt like I was worth, 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:54.200 Like I was never told or shown that I was 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.880 worthy to even be in the classroom because I was 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:58.360 always not getting the grades or always not being the 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.240 person that was performing in the right way to get 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.920 attention or to get adoration in that way. And so 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.560 the unimportant thing I think has always played has been 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.320 a thread throughout what I'm doing, or like the feeling 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.160 of being a little bit unworthy, and then you kind 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.280 of translate it into other things totally. 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.440 Yeah, And so that's like what core wounds come from. 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:16.480 It. 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.439 They never come from like actual like that moment with 0:17:20.480 --> 0:17:23.080 your husband coming through the door. They're always pre existing, 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.280 and then they get activated in those moments and then 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.600 it's something where like the shoes on the floor, like, oh, 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:31.359 it's your shoes on the floor, but it's you know, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.199 people are like, oh, it's not a big deal, but 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.960 really it's not about what the objective experience is. It's 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.440 the subjective stuff that we have inside of us that 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.879 arises that feels so uncomfortable. Yeah, so we do a 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:44.680 lot of the work. The first part is like learning 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:46.679 exactly what our core wounds are. There's a list of 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:48.919 like eighteen or twenty. I can actually send you a 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:50.359 link if you want to put in the show notes 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:50.800 or something. 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.520 Yeah, the listeners identify theirs. 0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:56.280 But you can see those ones and then it's like okay, 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:58.680 then we can plug them into the reprogramming, and then 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.680 we can actually leave these things that were conditioned into 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:05.080 our subconscious mind from pre existing experiences, which makes us 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.119 way less likely to jump to those conclusions in the 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:08.679 future or feel that distress. 0:18:09.000 --> 0:18:09.600 It's so true. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.560 I think about all the times where I've kind of 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:16.000 jumped to conclusions or had very snappy responses to things, 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:18.080 and I'm like, why did I there was such a 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.480 tiny thing? Like, technically it's a tiny thing, but because 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:24.200 you allow things to build up so much, it doesn't 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.800 feel tiny at all, Like that one thing feels so 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.840 huge because of either things I haven't worked through myself 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:34.440 or things that I haven't worked through with other people. Yes, 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:38.080 that has ended up leaving little scars exactly, God, no, 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:38.440 please go. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:40.919 Well, I'm just gonna say I always tell people like 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.880 it's never because some people will do that, right, You're 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.000 probably not doing that as much, but people will shame 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:48.160 themselves for having reactions to things like oh, I can't 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:49.440 believe I was snappy. 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:49.879 Over this little thing. 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.560 And it's because it's never about the external experience. It's 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.040 always about what it triggers internally for us. And so 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:58.080 it's also a reminder for us to be like gentle 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.719 with ourselves. And then if we see ourselves doing that, 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.000 it's never helpful to like shame ourselves or read ourself 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.399 up or something. It's so important to get an adopt 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.840 a state of curiosity and to be like, well, why 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:09.879 did that affect me so much? What am I making 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.439 it mean about me? And then we see, oh I 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:15.200 was making it mean I am unimportant or I am unworthy, 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.000 and oh my gosh, there's this like trail of that 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.440 in my experience, how it all makes sense? 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.119 Gosh, can you imagine how many well I'm sure you 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:24.200 already know through the work you've done, but how many 0:19:24.320 --> 0:19:25.720 arguments are saved. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:26.840 After people realize these. 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.280 Little things, Like seriously, I can just imagine the clarity 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.920 of communication and like the clarity of understanding. Even if 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:37.000 you figure out yourself as being secure, but then you 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:40.080 end up noticing those traits in your partner helps you 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:45.240 to also help them unwind and and you know, figure 0:19:45.280 --> 0:19:47.439 those parts out, like where is that coming from? Like 0:19:47.520 --> 0:19:49.760 how is that? How is what I said? What are 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:51.800 you translating it to be? You know, I remember I 0:19:51.840 --> 0:19:57.719 heard recently Gaba Mathe I love him too, and he 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.119 was talking about how this was more to do with 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.320 what other people think about you, But he was talking 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.880 about how you can never control how someone perceives what 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:11.160 you've said, because it's going through all these layers, all 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:12.680 these filters of. 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:14.080 Their pain, of their trauma. 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:16.920 And so you can say the same thing to five 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:21.520 different people and each person will have internalized it completely 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:25.080 differently exactly. And there's this word in Sanskrit. It's called 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:29.760 some scars, and some scars are tiny. They're described as 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:34.080 tiny little footprints that are essentially left on you every 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:36.960 single time you go through an experience. But what happens 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:38.960 is sometimes they can get washed away when you end 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:42.520 up processing them. But otherwise, every single time that same 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:44.960 thing happens, that the imprint gets deeper. 0:20:44.840 --> 0:20:46.280 And deeper and deeper. 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:48.600 And so I always think about that when I go 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.720 through life. I'm like, all these little impressions they refer 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:53.920 to us, All these little impressions that are being made 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:59.000 determine how we receive anything that we come into contact. 0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:02.040 With exactly and will give. And it's so funny. 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.399 Because this is like how the subconscious works too, is 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.040 exactly what you just described as some scars, which is 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.320 every time we go through a negative thing that we 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.119 can't properly emotionally in process or subconscious stores it so 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:13.920 that it can protect us from it in the future. 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:14.400 Wow. 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:16.400 But then when we keep giving the same meaning, we're 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:19.080 actually firing and wiring those neural pathways are getting stronger 0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.959 and deeper. And now you think of your subconscious mind 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:24.360 as like the lens you see the world through where 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.080 it's almost like every time you have something that like 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.040 or like almost like a windshield when you're driving your 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:30.560 car and you get these like splats of mud on 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.240 your windshield and they build up and become dirty and dirtier, 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.919 and unless you're cleaning them out, it skews your vision. 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:37.680 Yes, that's a great analogy. 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:39.720 So with people, you know, I have a lot of 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:42.879 friends who get into relationships and you know, you end 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.400 up having these patterns when you end up seeking out 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:50.119 the same thing over and over again. Is that linked 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:54.360 to these attachment theories from a young age? And if 0:21:54.400 --> 0:21:58.119 you notice yourself getting into patterns and usually then we 0:21:58.200 --> 0:22:00.480 recognize the patterns usually when they negative, not when they're 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:01.960 positive patons. 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:02.560 How would one? 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:04.400 And obviously these are the ways that you get out 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:09.639 of it, But when do you know to stop, Like, 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:11.919 how do you know to stop those patterns? How do 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:13.760 you stop it from how do you differentiate it from 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.440 who you just are as your personality versus something that 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:19.960 is wrong with you or something that you have to 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:20.560 adapt and. 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.040 Change because of how much it's causing us pain. So 0:22:24.119 --> 0:22:27.280 I feel like emotions like they're a beautiful feedback mechanism, 0:22:27.400 --> 0:22:29.560 Like they're always telling us when something is out of alignment. 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:31.440 And sometimes what we do is we shame our emotions 0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.119 or suppress them. But they're always saying something to us. 0:22:34.119 --> 0:22:35.920 And when we can use them as an opportunity to 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:38.199 go inward, we can go in and heal and do 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:40.800 that underlying work. And so what's really interesting is that 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:44.600 our subconscious mind really wants to maintain its comfort zone. 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.240 So it seeks comfort because it equates it to familiarity 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.280 and thus safety. And so your subconscious at the end 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:53.679 of the day is really survival wired. So even if 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:56.440 we're going through decades of painful patterns and relationships, will 0:22:56.440 --> 0:22:58.720 attract the same type of people and invest in those 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:03.359 personalities because we're like, it's familiar, and thus I'm still 0:23:03.400 --> 0:23:07.320 likely to survive. And so what's really interesting is it 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:12.120 for each of the attachment styles, we are generally most 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.600 attracted to what represents the subconscious comforts wone we have 0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:17.000 in relationship to self. 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:19.359 So how we. 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.960 Get conditioned as children we will tend to internalize. So 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:25.359 I always say, for example, like our internal dialogue is 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.199 often our internalized dialogue from childhood, Like how we were 0:23:28.240 --> 0:23:31.600 spoken to will often speak to ourselves. And so let's say, 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:34.560 for example, you would really critical parents, then you become 0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:37.800 really critical of self, and then you see that you're 0:23:37.800 --> 0:23:41.080 attracted to really critical people because they mirror back to 0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:43.840 you how you treat yourself, and thus it feels safe 0:23:43.840 --> 0:23:47.480 and familiar. Wow. And so you'll often see like anxious 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:50.320 attachment styles. They are very dismissive of themselves and their 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:52.959 own feelings because they're busy people pleasing, so they're more 0:23:53.000 --> 0:23:54.840 attracted to emotionally unavailable people. 0:23:54.880 --> 0:23:56.639 A lot of the time, dismissive A. 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.000 Winds are very preoccupied with their own time to themselves, 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:01.440 and often the attracted to people who are also. 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:02.920 Preoccupied with the amount of time. 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.600 So we end up attracting what's our mirror, not into 0:24:06.800 --> 0:24:09.280 like what we're looking for, but into who we are 0:24:09.440 --> 0:24:12.280 to self. And that's why it's so important to become 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.919 securely attached to self first, so we're more likely to 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.919 be investing in people who are also going to be 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:19.920 secure and show up in safe and healthy ways. 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:22.240 See that puts a whole different meaning to. 0:24:23.680 --> 0:24:26.160 Love yourself first, and then you'll find the person that's 0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:28.600 gonna love you best Like that to me. You know, 0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:30.280 everyone's like, you know, you have to feel really secure 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.520 by yourself first before you get into a relationship. But 0:24:32.520 --> 0:24:34.800 I think the way you just described it of it 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.639 being this reflection, you know, what you end up seeking 0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:39.879 out is a reflection of how you treat yourself. Then 0:24:39.960 --> 0:24:41.960 it makes sense, right then you actually want to be 0:24:42.000 --> 0:24:45.080 in a place rather than someone coming in and trying 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:48.840 to fix these broken pieces of you. You then realize, 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:51.399 oh my god, I could deserve so much more, Like 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.040 I could attract so much more in my life, and 0:24:54.119 --> 0:24:56.800 I there's a possibility that I deserve way more. But 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:00.720 I need to believe I deserve more, and I need 0:25:00.760 --> 0:25:03.840 to believe that things in my own self can be 0:25:03.840 --> 0:25:06.640 better before I can attract better exactly. 0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:09.119 And that goes back to like these major things. So 0:25:09.320 --> 0:25:11.000 it's really interesting. So we talked about like that. You know, 0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:13.360 there's a four major things. Yeah, so the first one 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:14.840 is core wounds, right, and we have to I have 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:18.280 to go through the other ones. But the core wounds, 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:20.280 like if I'm telling myself all day I'm not good 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:23.359 enough or I'm unworthy, I never So I saw a 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:25.560 lot of clients within that ten year period or so 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:28.600 when I was running my practice who came out of 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:32.080 also narcissistic relationships and not like how people throw away 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:35.560 through around the term, but like actual, you know, narcissistic 0:25:35.600 --> 0:25:39.199 personality disorder. And it's so interesting because this was like 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:41.320 the most obvious example to me. And this is to 0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:44.560 be very clear, I'm not victim blaming at all, and 0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:46.479 I'll speak to that in a moment, but but what 0:25:46.520 --> 0:25:49.040 I would see is that every person who ended up 0:25:49.040 --> 0:25:52.560 in a relationship with a narcissist, they first were very 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:55.960 self critical, They violated their own boundaries to please people 0:25:55.960 --> 0:25:59.719 all the time. They would manipulate themselves into like becoming 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:02.720 what people wanted from them to people please them, and 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:04.480 they were often in a position where they were not 0:26:04.520 --> 0:26:06.840 empathizing with their own feelings. They were like judging themselves 0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:11.280 for feelings. So of course somebody comes along who's not 0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:13.440 going to be very nice to you. They're going to 0:26:13.480 --> 0:26:15.520 be like cruel or mean and how they talk to you, 0:26:15.520 --> 0:26:19.080 They're going to manipulate your life, they're going to violate 0:26:19.080 --> 0:26:21.159 your boundaries, they're not going to empathize with you, like 0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.240 all these characteristics of a narcissist. And what happens is 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:26.919 the conscious mind is responsible for three to five percent 0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:31.240 of our beliefs, thoughts, emotions, and actions, and subconscious and 0:26:31.320 --> 0:26:34.720 unconscious collectively are ninety five to ninety seven percent. And 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:37.600 every client that I would see go through this would 0:26:37.600 --> 0:26:40.720 come into my practice and they would say, I knew better. 0:26:41.600 --> 0:26:43.640 It was almost like logically, which is our conscious mind, 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:45.800 I knew that something was not right. I knew that 0:26:45.840 --> 0:26:48.119 this person wasn't being healthy, but it was like I 0:26:48.160 --> 0:26:51.160 couldn't stop myself from going and investing in this relationship. 0:26:51.560 --> 0:26:55.840 The autopilot is exactly almost like this dormant autopilot thing 0:26:55.840 --> 0:26:59.600 where it's almost like we're asleep, like it's it's the subconscious. 0:26:59.680 --> 0:27:02.959 To me, it feels like unless you start tuning into it, 0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:06.280 it becomes this part of you that is asleep on 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:10.760 basically just following patterns that you've already followed before without 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:13.720 trying to reji like you have to realign it. But otherwise, 0:27:14.240 --> 0:27:17.040 living through your subconscious means I'm going to collect all 0:27:17.040 --> 0:27:19.199 these things that happen. We're going to store it, like 0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:21.879 you said, and then we're going to live in that 0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:25.760 same pattern over and over again until you wake up 0:27:25.840 --> 0:27:28.560 and until you wake me up and start telling me different. 0:27:28.680 --> 0:27:32.359 Exactly exactly, and start doing that reconditioning work, and so 0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:34.919 it's like this whole like landscape of what's happening. So 0:27:35.240 --> 0:27:38.160 that first part is people learning to reprogram their core wounds, 0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:39.879 because as long as I have core wounds, like for me, 0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:43.280 it's so interesting. I saw my parents go through this 0:27:43.800 --> 0:27:46.239 big sort of you know, confused dynamic, and I had 0:27:46.240 --> 0:27:48.439 this huge betrayal core wound, and then I was in 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:51.320 relationships as a young person with people who would betray me, 0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:53.679 and it was like, oh my gosh, this is my 0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:56.560 subconscious comfort zone and as soon as I recondition that 0:27:56.560 --> 0:27:59.399 that would change. Right, So we tend to like actually 0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:01.320 not just have these core ones, but then we invest 0:28:01.359 --> 0:28:03.800 in people who are more likely to activate them. So 0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:05.840 that's the first The second part is we need to 0:28:05.920 --> 0:28:08.840 learn what our needs are. Everybody has needs in a relationship, 0:28:08.880 --> 0:28:12.520 and actually needs in a relationship are so understated. So 0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:14.760 there's the beautiful work of doctor Gary Chapman. He talks 0:28:14.760 --> 0:28:17.120 about the five love languages, and I would actually say, 0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:20.679 much more important than the love languages are our needs 0:28:21.119 --> 0:28:23.679 because I can I have a big quality time love language, 0:28:23.720 --> 0:28:26.840 but I have a big need for emotional connection, and 0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:30.080 if I spend quality time watching Netflix with somebody, it's 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:31.959 not the same as having like a deep conversation and 0:28:31.960 --> 0:28:34.760 feeling like that's like a really connecting thing. So our 0:28:34.840 --> 0:28:37.280 needs are absolutely huge, and they're how we actually give 0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:40.640 and receive love in a relationship. And when needs are 0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:44.040 not being met, and not to fear amonger people listening 0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:47.200 to this, but when needs are not met, that is 0:28:47.240 --> 0:28:50.800 the context for usually how infidelity happens long term and relationships, 0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:53.600 because the subconscious mind is a needs meaning machine, and 0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:56.440 so what will happen is we won't get our needs met, 0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:59.760 let's say in a twenty year marriage, and then we'll 0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.880 start to resent, and then somebody comes along who does 0:29:02.920 --> 0:29:05.080 meet those needs. They do make you feel seen or 0:29:05.200 --> 0:29:07.800 heard or significant, and the subconscious mind will go through 0:29:07.840 --> 0:29:11.760 these enormous feelings of infatuation, which obviously this is usually 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:13.959 with the exception of people who are like sex addicts 0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:16.920 or things like that, the vast majority of infidelity happens 0:29:16.920 --> 0:29:19.440 in these very drawn out times where needs are not 0:29:19.520 --> 0:29:22.000 being that and then the person justifies it and strays. 0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:25.560 And so every person has needs. We need to learn 0:29:25.600 --> 0:29:28.360 our own needs and how to meet our needs ourselves 0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:32.600 first so that our subconscious mind is ready to receive 0:29:32.640 --> 0:29:35.400 them from other people and we're primed. And then the 0:29:35.480 --> 0:29:37.760 third piece becomes we need to learn to communicate our 0:29:37.800 --> 0:29:40.880 needs vulnerably and transparently and so hard. 0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:43.320 Yeah, I guess like, okay, we've done on this week. 0:29:43.360 --> 0:29:45.520 And then you have to learn how to ask for 0:29:45.600 --> 0:29:48.160 what you need, which I think even more so for 0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:51.719 women than I think for anybody else. We're just so 0:29:52.000 --> 0:29:55.440 used to being the people were being in a position 0:29:55.600 --> 0:29:58.840 of being givers and being people who are. 0:29:59.040 --> 0:29:59.960 Okay, care take. 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:02.320 It's part of our nature to be that way, and 0:30:02.360 --> 0:30:04.480 so to then be like, this is what I need, 0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:08.440 it feels like such a big step and a very 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:11.240 vulnerable moment to even do that. 0:30:11.560 --> 0:30:14.880 So big so as a fearful avoidant as well. In 0:30:14.920 --> 0:30:17.720 the past, I remember the first time I communicated in 0:30:17.800 --> 0:30:19.480 need and it was to my now husband, and we've 0:30:19.520 --> 0:30:22.720 been together for like ten years, but we were early 0:30:22.760 --> 0:30:24.200 on into dating, and I had done a lot of 0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:26.760 this work on myself first, but I hadn't really done 0:30:26.800 --> 0:30:28.760 it in a relationship. I took this kind of time 0:30:28.840 --> 0:30:31.720 out from dating, like this sacred kind of pause, to 0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:33.360 like do a lot of inner work because I knew 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:36.200 that I needed it, and and it's funnily enough, he 0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:37.920 was like the first person actually dated after. 0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:39.240 Coming out of that and then we got married. 0:30:39.560 --> 0:30:43.480 But he like, I remember one time I felt really 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:46.280 insecure about something and it was like this misunderstanding that 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:48.240 was happening, and we were only a few months into dating, 0:30:48.240 --> 0:30:51.680 and I remember knowing, if I don't say right now 0:30:51.720 --> 0:30:54.600 that I just need like clarity and reassurance that I'm 0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:55.880 going to store it and I'm just going to kind 0:30:55.880 --> 0:30:56.720 of push him away. 0:30:57.040 --> 0:30:59.240 And I remember like where I was, what I was wearing. 0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:00.880 It was such a good moment because. 0:31:00.640 --> 0:31:03.440 It was so scary, but I was like, hey, you know, 0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:06.640 I'm feeling like a little bit unsure about this situation 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:09.440 that's happening, and I need like clarity and reassurance to 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:11.280 feel okay. Otherwise I know it's just gonna I'm gonna 0:31:11.320 --> 0:31:12.440 get in my head and I don't want it to 0:31:12.440 --> 0:31:14.680 come out in a different way in the relationship. And 0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:17.520 he like was so sweet about it and so like 0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:19.800 and it was the first time met ever communicated, and 0:31:19.840 --> 0:31:24.200 it was like positively reinforced like that, and it was like, oh, 0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:26.840 this is what it's supposed to feel like and it's 0:31:26.840 --> 0:31:29.160 so scary when we haven't done that before. And to 0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:31.240 your point, like women a lot of the times too, 0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:33.520 are like care takers and they're not supposed to like 0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:36.400 have have needs or take up too much space. But 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:40.600 I think that without that, relationships just often become dysfunctional. 0:31:40.680 --> 0:31:43.080 And the more we have unmet needs and there's a 0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:46.520 lack of communication that goes in direct correlation with how 0:31:46.600 --> 0:31:50.960 much resentment boils in the relationship, and so that's the 0:31:50.960 --> 0:31:52.760 big thing. So so we do the core wounds, we 0:31:52.800 --> 0:31:55.840 identify and reprogram core wounds. We learn our needs and 0:31:55.880 --> 0:31:57.680 we learn to meet them to with self. So if 0:31:57.680 --> 0:32:00.680 I need encouragement, I better be more validated of self. 0:32:01.080 --> 0:32:03.040 If I need certainty, how can I create my own 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:05.440 certainty with more boundaries in my life or things like that. 0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:07.920 And there's like each attachment style we can go through 0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:10.080 them afterwards too, but each attachment set actually has very 0:32:10.120 --> 0:32:12.480 unique needs that tend to be there, so we can 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:14.200 learn from that what they are, and then we learn 0:32:14.240 --> 0:32:15.480 to meet them with self, and then we learn to 0:32:15.560 --> 0:32:18.400 communicate them with others. And then the last kind of 0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:21.400 pieces is we have to develop healthy boundaries, and then 0:32:21.440 --> 0:32:23.760 we have to do a little emotional regulation just through 0:32:23.800 --> 0:32:27.720 things that get us into parasympathetic nervous system mode, meditation, 0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:30.080 breath work, habits, just like little things that will help 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:33.480 us reregulate if we come from a history of relationship trauma, 0:32:34.080 --> 0:32:35.840 and then in doing that. 0:32:35.680 --> 0:32:36.880 That will shift our behaviors. 0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:39.040 So really it's like if you can learn your coremones 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:42.960 and reprogram them, learn your needs, express your needs to 0:32:43.000 --> 0:32:45.720 other people, emotionally regulate, and have good boundaries. It sounds 0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:47.680 like five like things that take a lot of time, 0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:51.000 but really it's like ninety days for people to really 0:32:51.040 --> 0:32:54.000 do the reprogramming. Do like a little breathwork exercise in 0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:56.560 the morning, you're regulating your nervous system, and then go 0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:59.120 into your life and learn to understand your needs and 0:32:59.120 --> 0:33:01.360 communicate them to peace and set your boundaries and really 0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:04.280 like just conditioning that for ninety days, we'll see people 0:33:04.320 --> 0:33:06.080 really move into being securely attached. 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:08.640 Yeah, because you know, what you're just saying reminds me 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:11.120 of the friends I was talking about, where if they're 0:33:11.200 --> 0:33:13.760 used to being in you know, similar relationships where it's 0:33:13.760 --> 0:33:16.720 actually quite painful. The problem is even when a man 0:33:16.800 --> 0:33:20.640 comes along that is completely different and possibly a secure man. 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:26.280 They find it disturbing and they can't even appreciate the 0:33:26.280 --> 0:33:31.960 man who is secure, communicating, stable, And so it's almost 0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:35.160 like you lose out on these opportunities to have because 0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:37.360 they're always thinking, Oh, I just need to find that guy, 0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:40.000 that guy that makes me feel secure, the guy that 0:33:40.080 --> 0:33:43.520 makes me feel like it's all going to be okay. 0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:45.880 But the problem is you find that and then it's boring. 0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:49.680 And you find that, and then it's suddenly like, oh, 0:33:49.760 --> 0:33:50.840 but what else do I do? 0:33:50.920 --> 0:33:51.120 Now? 0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:54.120 This is I'm just bored and I don't know how 0:33:54.160 --> 0:33:56.960 to react to this. And so it's almost an unfair 0:33:57.320 --> 0:33:59.680 position that you're putting the other person in because you 0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:03.080 have and you're not ready to receive that yet. And 0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:05.360 so what you were talking about it just kind of 0:34:05.400 --> 0:34:08.200 makes it. It's almost like the work that has to 0:34:08.239 --> 0:34:10.160 be done before an exam, right, you have to do 0:34:10.200 --> 0:34:13.160 the work that it takes to accept the goodness that 0:34:13.200 --> 0:34:15.160 comes into your life if you've been in a position 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:17.960 that's used to not receiving that exactly. 0:34:18.000 --> 0:34:20.520 And like, it's so hilarious that you said this because 0:34:20.600 --> 0:34:22.560 I just recorded a YouTube video. It hasn't come out yet, 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:25.080 And it's about how if you're not secure, you'll often 0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:29.160 find secure people boring. And and because in our so 0:34:29.200 --> 0:34:31.800 we do these like programs in the personal development school 0:34:31.800 --> 0:34:33.480 and people all the time. So we'll do like these 0:34:33.520 --> 0:34:35.760 daily webinars and people will come in and type stuff 0:34:36.040 --> 0:34:37.400 and all the time. Like I was like, I have 0:34:37.440 --> 0:34:39.200 to make a video about this and address it because 0:34:39.280 --> 0:34:41.759 so often people will literally be in there and they'll 0:34:41.800 --> 0:34:44.640 be like, hey, I'm like seeing the secure person, but 0:34:44.719 --> 0:34:46.759 I don't know, like I feel like it's kind of boring. 0:34:47.040 --> 0:34:49.319 All the time, like just non stop. And so you 0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:49.759 nailed it. 0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:52.840 And it's because if your subconscious comfort zone and I 0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:54.920 actually had that experience firsthand when I was younger and 0:34:55.000 --> 0:34:57.560 dating when I was not securely attached, and because my 0:34:57.600 --> 0:35:01.080 subconscious comfort zone was chaos, I was attracted to chaos, 0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.440 and anybody who's gonna make me feel calm instead of chaotic, 0:35:03.560 --> 0:35:05.640 I would reject because it was not familiar. 0:35:05.960 --> 0:35:07.040 And even though it's. 0:35:06.880 --> 0:35:10.640 Like totally backwards, I would perceive that as not safe because. 0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:12.600 I'm not used to it. And so it's like we want. 0:35:12.480 --> 0:35:14.960 To go back to what's familiar, but sometimes that's not 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:16.840 the actual thing. That helps benefit us. 0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:19.799 Yeah, and they're not safe is because you're not used 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.560 to having to have someone that doesn't respond in ups 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:24.440 and downs. And I think that's that's what it is. 0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:26.840 It's like the adrenaline rush, right. I think about it, 0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.200 even with friends who go on tour and they're on 0:35:29.640 --> 0:35:31.760 you know, on stages, or they used to people screaming 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:34.800 their name and they're so used to this high high 0:35:34.840 --> 0:35:38.919 that can't be experienced anywhere else, and so everything else 0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:42.080 feels so dull and so boring. And in the same way, 0:35:42.120 --> 0:35:44.920 it's like if you're used to this pining of oh 0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:46.640 my gosh, when is he gonna talk to me again? 0:35:46.760 --> 0:35:49.319 Or oh my goodness, he's so angry with me right now, 0:35:49.360 --> 0:35:51.000 but eventually you know it's gonna get better, and then 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:52.480 it's gonna get worse, and then it's gonna get better, 0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:54.520 and then it's gonna get worse. It's this, You're on 0:35:54.520 --> 0:35:57.960 a roller coaster with adrenaline over and over again, and 0:35:58.080 --> 0:36:01.600 so when there's no adrenaline rush in that way, you 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:04.280 start to think this is really boring. 0:36:04.440 --> 0:36:05.880 Yeah, exactly. 0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:07.880 And something else that I found to be so like 0:36:07.960 --> 0:36:10.600 useful and honestly is kind of is I don't want 0:36:10.600 --> 0:36:13.160 to say like sad, but it's so important to recognize 0:36:13.200 --> 0:36:15.560 this is that every relationship as well, it. 0:36:15.520 --> 0:36:16.440 Has six stages. 0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:18.719 So this was originally based off the work of doctor 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:20.960 Susan Johnson, but I sort of adapted over the years. 0:36:21.520 --> 0:36:23.120 The first stage is the dating stage. It's like our 0:36:23.200 --> 0:36:24.960 betting stage. We're supposed to see if somebody is a 0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:27.439 good fit. Then we go into the honeymoon stage, which 0:36:27.480 --> 0:36:30.040 is like the rose colored glasses that like. The dating 0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:32.879 stage usually lasts zero to six months, honeymoon stage another 0:36:33.000 --> 0:36:34.880 year or so, sometimes up to a year and a half. 0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:37.719 Then we go into the power struggle stage. I can't 0:36:37.760 --> 0:36:39.680 tell you how many times I would have clients come 0:36:39.680 --> 0:36:41.520 in when I was running my practice and they would 0:36:41.600 --> 0:36:44.719 be like they would be like, I married my wife 0:36:45.200 --> 0:36:48.359 at a year. We moved kind of quickly, and then 0:36:48.360 --> 0:36:50.200 as soon as we got married, she turned into a monster. 0:36:50.600 --> 0:36:52.279 Like I would hear a story after a story like this, 0:36:52.360 --> 0:36:54.080 and it was like, no, no, no, you just it 0:36:54.120 --> 0:36:55.799 wasn't like she was trying to bait you to get 0:36:55.840 --> 0:36:58.080 married and then become someone else. It's just that you're 0:36:58.120 --> 0:37:00.960 in the power struggle stage now, and if we make 0:37:01.000 --> 0:37:02.600 it out of the power struggle stage, we go into 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:05.680 the security, commitment and bliss stages. But and the bliss 0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:08.280 stage is like the honeymoon stage, but you deeply know somebody, 0:37:08.280 --> 0:37:10.440 you really let them in, you know their fears and flaws, 0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:12.200 and you've accepted each other's and there's like a lot 0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:15.040 more communication and openness. And that's where we're trying to 0:37:15.080 --> 0:37:17.640 get to. But most people who are insecurely attached, they 0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:20.759 go dating stage, honeymoon stage, power struggle stage, break up, 0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:24.560 start again. Oh so they also don't realize that, like 0:37:24.719 --> 0:37:27.880 love isn't supposed to be the high of the honeymoon 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:29.880 stage or the low of the power struggle and they 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:32.320 keep trying to like keep the highs and the lows alive, 0:37:33.120 --> 0:37:35.040 because what you'll find is, if you make it out 0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:37.319 of the power struggle stage, love is less about like 0:37:37.320 --> 0:37:39.560 the highs and lows of almost like that pleasure seeking, 0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:43.040 and more about this really deep fulfillment and that only 0:37:43.080 --> 0:37:45.439 happens when we build those deeper roots. And when people 0:37:45.480 --> 0:37:48.120 don't realize that that's how it works, and they don't 0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:50.200 know their attachment style, it's like we go in blind 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:52.800 to love and relationships and it keeps us so easily 0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:55.879 stuck with the wrong expectations or rules for love. 0:37:56.000 --> 0:37:58.440 One of my best friends is exactly like this, and 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:00.799 she'll know when she's listening to this the butec she. 0:38:00.760 --> 0:38:01.239 In my mind. 0:38:01.400 --> 0:38:04.520 But that's our conversation over and over again. She keeps saying, Oh, 0:38:04.760 --> 0:38:07.120 you know, I wanted to feel like it felt when 0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:09.839 I was really when I was younger and dating in relationships, 0:38:09.880 --> 0:38:12.440 Like when I'm meeting people, it doesn't feel that exciting anymore. 0:38:12.440 --> 0:38:14.359 And it doesn't. And I was like, but all those 0:38:14.400 --> 0:38:16.400 people you broke up with, so there was a reason 0:38:16.800 --> 0:38:18.000 that that didn't work out. 0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:22.440 But she's constantly seeking this, like she's like, what about 0:38:22.440 --> 0:38:24.359 the butterflies and the excitement. I was like, you still 0:38:24.400 --> 0:38:27.520 feel that, but it just feels it's a different type, 0:38:27.600 --> 0:38:29.920 Like the excitement is different, but for a good in 0:38:29.960 --> 0:38:32.359 a good way. Yes, the butterflies are there, but it's 0:38:32.400 --> 0:38:35.200 not as intense. And I think it's the intensity that 0:38:35.239 --> 0:38:38.719 people are so used to that intensity of emotion, and 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.000 it's almost like you just want to feel something, even 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:43.200 if it's even if it's a bad feeling, you just 0:38:43.239 --> 0:38:44.680 want to make sure you're feeling. 0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:45.360 Yep, totally. 0:38:45.520 --> 0:38:47.319 And we get to we get addicted to the neural 0:38:47.400 --> 0:38:49.239 chemistry of our court wounds. When they're up, we get 0:38:49.280 --> 0:38:51.880 not just cortisol but also dopamine. And it's actually very 0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:54.640 similar neurochemically to what people get addicted to when they're gambling. 0:38:55.480 --> 0:38:57.920 And so yeah, and like the intermittent. 0:38:58.200 --> 0:38:59.200 So much sense. 0:38:59.719 --> 0:39:02.200 Yeah, yeah, so it's there for that reason. 0:39:02.280 --> 0:39:04.560 But I would say, and I'm curious, like you probably 0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:07.160 noticed this, but I would say, you know, we can 0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:09.600 sort of share about this as people, probably for anybody 0:39:09.600 --> 0:39:11.960 who hasn't had this experience, but I would see this 0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:14.200 with tons of people, both in my practice, through our 0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:15.680 programs and people. 0:39:16.040 --> 0:39:17.280 It's like pleasure. 0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:19.319 Seeking can only go like this high and this low, 0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:22.359 but fulfillment can outgrow the peaks of pleasure, like when 0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:25.279 you have such deep fulfillment and really deep connection and 0:39:25.360 --> 0:39:29.120 peace and appreciation and gratitude like all of those things, 0:39:29.719 --> 0:39:33.680 they grow slower, like you know, but over time, the 0:39:33.800 --> 0:39:37.080 depth of fulfillment won't like the pleasure of like the 0:39:37.160 --> 0:39:39.680 roller coaster doesn't hold a candle to how fulfilled you feel. 0:39:40.120 --> 0:39:42.600 But people, because they're not getting the opportunity to go 0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:44.400 through the stages and get to that point, have no 0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:47.799 reference or contacts, and so they keep seeking out those 0:39:47.880 --> 0:39:48.600 highs and lows. 0:39:48.680 --> 0:39:51.319 Yeah, I always just think, why should the person that 0:39:51.440 --> 0:39:54.960 I'm spending my life with make me feel the same 0:39:55.000 --> 0:39:57.880 way I feel when I'm in the most anxious stages 0:39:57.920 --> 0:39:59.760 of my life, like the things that scam me the most. 0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:03.439 If you're feeling the same way with your partner as 0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:05.720 you do doing the things that scare you the most 0:40:05.880 --> 0:40:08.719 on a daily basis, that can't like. 0:40:09.120 --> 0:40:10.000 That doesn't make sense. 0:40:10.000 --> 0:40:11.359 And I think about it all the time, like, oh 0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:14.160 if I if like I the way that it should 0:40:14.200 --> 0:40:16.960 be is my nervous system feels soothed when I'm with 0:40:17.000 --> 0:40:20.680 my person, like my I feel at ease and calm. 0:40:20.960 --> 0:40:22.960 But again, it's what you're saying, it's when that's not 0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:28.799 your normality. It feels like being in anxiety feels so 0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:31.680 much better for you than being in a state of 0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:32.239 calm and. 0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:33.320 Ease, exactly. 0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:36.160 Yeah, there's a lot of people who who I work 0:40:36.200 --> 0:40:39.880 with in the school and they come in and they say, Hey, 0:40:40.040 --> 0:40:43.719 I've become securely attached and I'm dating somebody now, and 0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:46.120 I can't tell the difference if I'm if I don't 0:40:46.239 --> 0:40:48.280 like them, or if attachment style is just not activated. 0:40:48.280 --> 0:40:50.840 And I'm like, you're gonna know if you don't like somebody, 0:40:50.880 --> 0:40:52.920 and you'll still have the butterflies, like you' still have 0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:54.600 those good feelings and like a little bit of nerves 0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:57.319 if you're interested in somebody, in that excitement, but it 0:40:57.360 --> 0:41:00.400 won't There's something called like your attachment style being at debated, 0:41:00.400 --> 0:41:02.799 which is when your wounds are on, and a lot 0:41:02.840 --> 0:41:08.160 of people actually misperceive when they're not securely attached that oh, 0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:11.040 my wounds are activated, I'm feeling really anxious or I'm 0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:14.200 feeling really avoidant or stress, and that must mean I 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:16.120 like this person, And it's like, no, no, no, there's 0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:19.439 a difference between infatuation and a good, healthy, rooted way 0:41:19.560 --> 0:41:22.600 versus your attachment style being in that chaotic space. 0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:24.919 Yeah, and when I was reading your book, you talked 0:41:24.960 --> 0:41:28.400 about in anxious anxious attachment, you were talking about the 0:41:28.440 --> 0:41:31.759 difference between sacrifice and compromise. I would love for you 0:41:31.800 --> 0:41:33.160 to go into that a little bit because I found 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:34.120 that really interesting. 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:37.080 Yes, it's a really important concept for people who are 0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:39.600 either anxiously attached or even just like leaning anxious, like fearful, 0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:43.360 wouldn't have that anxious side as well, so generally what 0:41:43.520 --> 0:41:45.720 happens is we often tend to go into a space 0:41:45.719 --> 0:41:49.120 of thinking, Okay, I'm going to do what I think 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:50.160 you would want me to do. 0:41:50.680 --> 0:41:52.480 I'm not going to communicate about it. I'm going to 0:41:52.520 --> 0:41:53.560 try to mind read you. 0:41:54.080 --> 0:41:56.440 And a lot of times, like the deeper level of 0:41:56.480 --> 0:41:59.120 this is actually someone called covert contracts, where we basically 0:41:59.160 --> 0:42:02.120 think I'm going to kind of buy my future favors 0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:05.319 for you through doing a bunch of things now, and 0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:07.440 we track it and we're like, I'm gonna do these 0:42:07.440 --> 0:42:08.920 five things, so when I need to ask you for 0:42:08.960 --> 0:42:11.880 this thing next week, you're going to owe me. And 0:42:12.160 --> 0:42:14.680 this is like often behavior we learn when we grow 0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:16.600 up in a household where we're taught we have to 0:42:16.680 --> 0:42:18.840 people please or we can't really be ourselves or we 0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:21.400 can't communicate about our needs or get them met. And 0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:25.720 so that's sacrificing, that's going against ourselves to please others, 0:42:26.040 --> 0:42:29.520 and it will always end in resentment. Compromise is we 0:42:29.600 --> 0:42:31.960 learn to communicate our needs openly as a couple or 0:42:32.000 --> 0:42:33.920 as a unit. Even like let's say you and I 0:42:33.960 --> 0:42:37.200 are living together, we're super close friends, Like even in 0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:40.440 that kind of relationship, it can be with friendships, family relationships. 0:42:40.719 --> 0:42:43.879 We want to be fully transparent and be able to say, hey, 0:42:44.000 --> 0:42:46.040 here's what I am available for and these are my 0:42:46.160 --> 0:42:48.960 needs and what are yours, And compromise means we actually 0:42:49.000 --> 0:42:51.879 both honestly put our cards on the table and then 0:42:51.880 --> 0:42:54.640 we work through define common ground. And what that does 0:42:54.760 --> 0:42:57.560 is it prevents her from being resentment and also both 0:42:57.640 --> 0:42:59.680 people feel seen and hurt. Like when we actually get 0:42:59.680 --> 0:43:02.719 into relationships where we share our needs with somebody and 0:43:02.800 --> 0:43:05.400 they hear us out and they meet them and vice versa, 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:07.480 and we know that we can talk those things through. 0:43:07.880 --> 0:43:10.600 There's such a deep sense of fulfillment and safety in that. 0:43:10.760 --> 0:43:13.600 And so compromise means we can actually be honest and 0:43:13.640 --> 0:43:16.879 authentic and truthful with the people closest to us. And 0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:19.759 when we do make those compromises, we take ourselves into 0:43:19.800 --> 0:43:22.040 consideration in the process. So I have been given an 0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:24.960 analogy for people too who are newer to this concept, 0:43:25.120 --> 0:43:29.000 where let's say my neighbor says tays, I want you 0:43:29.040 --> 0:43:32.120 to come over on Friday, and let's say it's Thursday evening, 0:43:32.160 --> 0:43:33.719 and they're like, I need you to help me move. 0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:36.040 I'm moving, I'm packing all my stuff. Can you come 0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:37.799 over at six pm and help me till two in 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:40.320 the morning. You know, let's say I love my neighbor 0:43:40.360 --> 0:43:42.040 and I really want to help them because I really 0:43:42.040 --> 0:43:44.720 care about them. I'm not going to sit there and go, okay, 0:43:44.719 --> 0:43:47.200 two in the morning if that's not something that you know, 0:43:47.239 --> 0:43:49.279 if I have a busy Saturday the next day, or 0:43:49.560 --> 0:43:51.239 if that's something we're at the end of a busy week, 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:53.319 I'm not available for that. So what I would do 0:43:53.480 --> 0:43:56.839 is I would take myself into consideration and think and 0:43:56.960 --> 0:43:59.120 feel into myself and be like, well, what am I 0:43:59.160 --> 0:44:01.440 available for? Yeah, and maybe I say, you know what, 0:44:01.440 --> 0:44:03.400 I can't come that late, but I can come at 0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:06.279 six o'clock till eight o'clock or six until ten, or 0:44:06.320 --> 0:44:08.279 I'll come at six until eight o'clock and I'll cook 0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:10.600 you some dinner and bring it over too. And so 0:44:10.760 --> 0:44:14.200 that's also part of the construct of making compromises is 0:44:14.200 --> 0:44:17.400 we don't lose our frame of reference being attuned to 0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:21.279 ourselves when we make those decisions. And so because we 0:44:21.480 --> 0:44:25.080 do that, we never feel resentful because we're actually acting 0:44:25.120 --> 0:44:27.640 in relationships in an authentic way based on our trips. 0:44:28.000 --> 0:44:29.960 And when I was reading through your book, anyone listening 0:44:29.960 --> 0:44:32.800 to you now. When I first started dating my husband, 0:44:32.840 --> 0:44:35.359 he was definitely a secure and I think I was 0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:38.840 a dismissive avoidant, and it was It's been such an 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:41.360 interesting journey because he's I mean, he's always held space 0:44:41.400 --> 0:44:43.560 to help me grow and like all the things that 0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:45.480 you were saying, I'm like, gosh, you really did do that. 0:44:45.560 --> 0:44:49.600 Like he's been secure since I think since we started dating, 0:44:49.640 --> 0:44:54.080 and he's remained that way throughout our relationship. But he's 0:44:54.120 --> 0:44:57.080 also the type of person who's kept who's kept this 0:44:57.160 --> 0:44:59.919 space open for me to have my journey to grow 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:02.960 through that. And that makes such a difference because I 0:45:02.960 --> 0:45:05.320 imagine it can be very frustrating for someone who is 0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:09.440 as secure and having someone who is constantly battling certain 0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:13.319 things and battling against him when he's not fighting against me, 0:45:13.440 --> 0:45:15.320 do you know what I mean? Like I he's always 0:45:15.400 --> 0:45:19.799 he's always there to hold the space, and I'm fighting him, 0:45:20.040 --> 0:45:22.200 but against things that I've had from my. 0:45:22.200 --> 0:45:23.080 Past, not him. 0:45:23.400 --> 0:45:25.560 So he's like, I'll carry your bags, and I'm like, 0:45:25.600 --> 0:45:26.560 why should you carry my bag? 0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:27.520 I can carry my own bag. 0:45:27.880 --> 0:45:30.000 And he's doing out of love, not because he thinks 0:45:30.040 --> 0:45:32.440 I can't look after myself. But I have a wound 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:34.960 that feels like, oh, people think I can't look after myself, 0:45:35.000 --> 0:45:37.040 that I'm that I'm all over the place and I'm 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:39.439 going to forget things, and so no, you can't hold 0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:41.920 my bags. I can look I can hold my own bags. 0:45:42.320 --> 0:45:44.680 And so we've gone through our and slowly as I 0:45:44.719 --> 0:45:46.239 was reading through book, I was like, gosh, I really 0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:48.200 did do those things when we started dating where I 0:45:48.239 --> 0:45:51.160 would be so I'll be fighting a cause, but the 0:45:51.200 --> 0:45:53.440 cause wasn't him. It was it was me trying to 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:55.919 fight something of other people in my past, so other 0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:58.320 things that I'd been through, but it was all coming 0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:00.640 out through the way he was treating me in such 0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:03.520 a sweet way, and I was like, no, you're trying 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:07.680 to be loving. No, I don't want it. I totally understand. 0:46:07.880 --> 0:46:09.920 So my husband, when I met my husband was dismissive 0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:12.960 avoidant as well, and so I like very much understand him, 0:46:12.960 --> 0:46:16.239 and he's been amazing dismissible avoidance. Like if they show 0:46:16.320 --> 0:46:18.719 up and they like do the work and are mindful, 0:46:18.800 --> 0:46:21.480 and like they're so sweet because they're like so empathetic 0:46:21.520 --> 0:46:23.520 and they're very caring, and it takes them a little 0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:26.920 bit to feel safe, being vulnerable enough to express it. 0:46:27.880 --> 0:46:30.759 But on the inside that's really a part of who 0:46:30.840 --> 0:46:33.400 they are. And so what's so beautiful about their journey 0:46:33.440 --> 0:46:35.719 to being secure? And I saw this so much in 0:46:35.760 --> 0:46:38.080 my husband is like as you sort of peel back 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:39.960 the layers and as he felt safer and safer to 0:46:40.000 --> 0:46:41.839 like kind of drop his guard and like let me in, 0:46:42.280 --> 0:46:47.719 it's like this very like beautiful soul. Yeah, And so 0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:50.080 it's so cool to see that journey too, And it's 0:46:50.080 --> 0:46:51.200 beautiful that you've been through that. 0:46:51.280 --> 0:46:51.600 Y definite. 0:46:51.640 --> 0:46:53.480 I think I am still still going through it, but 0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:57.240 I definitely have improved. Another part that you spoke about 0:46:57.320 --> 0:47:00.280 was the concept of ameshment, and you know, being from 0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:05.279 Indian culture, it's something which is quite normal in our 0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:10.279 culture to constantly put what your ideas and constructs are 0:47:10.320 --> 0:47:12.759 of what your child is and what you want them 0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:15.840 to be based on your own fears or own insecret. 0:47:15.840 --> 0:47:17.480 You know, my parents came as immigrants to. 0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:22.000 The UK, and so a lot of what their traumas 0:47:22.040 --> 0:47:25.040 had that they'd gone through was so much with financial security, 0:47:25.520 --> 0:47:28.200 making sure you get the grades, making sure you know 0:47:28.280 --> 0:47:30.719 you have stability in your life because they lacked so 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:33.480 much stability growing up, and so it all made. 0:47:33.280 --> 0:47:33.880 Sense to me. 0:47:34.440 --> 0:47:37.160 But I could see now looking back how a lot 0:47:37.160 --> 0:47:40.280 of the emphasis and what they put emphasis on also 0:47:40.640 --> 0:47:45.320 kind of I then carry with me through my life. 0:47:45.360 --> 0:47:48.200 But their intentions were so sweet because of what they'd 0:47:48.200 --> 0:47:51.600 been through. But at the same time, it put a 0:47:51.640 --> 0:47:53.960 lot of pressure on me in areas which I wasn't 0:47:53.960 --> 0:47:56.040 thriving at and therefore felt like a lot of my 0:47:56.160 --> 0:47:58.960 value was based on those things, and when I couldn't 0:47:58.960 --> 0:48:00.799 perform it those things, if felt like it took away 0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:03.960 my value, if that made sense. And so if my 0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:05.560 parents are listening, I love you and you did the 0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:09.640 best thing, and like the incredible parents, But traumas. 0:48:09.160 --> 0:48:11.359 Just get passed on in that way. And so. 0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:15.240 The ameshment, when I read it, I was like, wow, 0:48:15.400 --> 0:48:17.479 we have to learn. Even reading it as someone who 0:48:17.680 --> 0:48:20.600 eventually wants to be a parent, I was thinking it's 0:48:20.640 --> 0:48:22.560 so easy. I was, you know, I want my child 0:48:22.560 --> 0:48:24.000 to do this, and I want him to be like 0:48:24.040 --> 0:48:25.960 this or her to be like this, and then you're 0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:29.200 constantly building these constructs for them that they haven't signed 0:48:29.239 --> 0:48:29.799 up for yet. 0:48:30.160 --> 0:48:32.280 Yes, exactly, could you explain ameshment? 0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:34.840 For anybody who doesn't know, and how that can affect 0:48:34.840 --> 0:48:37.720 someone's attachment style and going through their life. 0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:39.239 Yes, it's such an important topic. 0:48:39.280 --> 0:48:40.840 I love that you shared that too, because it's like, 0:48:40.920 --> 0:48:42.480 so I think it's so nice for people and they 0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:44.840 listen to hear these like real life examples and to 0:48:44.880 --> 0:48:47.160 your point, like when people are conditioned to have an 0:48:47.200 --> 0:48:51.439 insecure attachment style, parents either already have that attachment style 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:53.640 themselves and so it's just being passed along because there 0:48:53.640 --> 0:48:56.680 are rules subconsciously about love or what we passed down, 0:48:57.600 --> 0:48:59.680 or it's people who think that they're doing the best 0:48:59.719 --> 0:49:02.200 thing their child infinitely, like I can't tell them how 0:49:02.239 --> 0:49:04.520 you tell you how many times I would see clients 0:49:04.800 --> 0:49:07.719 who were parents who would be like, oh my gosh, 0:49:07.760 --> 0:49:09.799 I've learned about this attachment style stuff. I realized I 0:49:09.800 --> 0:49:13.160 was so tough on my children. But my relationship to 0:49:13.200 --> 0:49:15.560 why I was tough on my children was that I 0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:17.160 thought I was preparing them the beast that I could 0:49:17.239 --> 0:49:21.280 for the world exactly, And so it's never like anybody's fault. 0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:24.279 It's just a process of recognition and awareness and how 0:49:24.280 --> 0:49:27.000 we can do that in our work to heal what's necessary. 0:49:27.160 --> 0:49:29.960 So my mom would always whenever we talk about therapy 0:49:30.040 --> 0:49:31.920 or things that we've been through in childhood, and you know, 0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:33.200 I loved my childhood growing up. 0:49:33.200 --> 0:49:34.239 My parents were phenomenal. 0:49:34.520 --> 0:49:36.279 But whenever we talk about little things that we think 0:49:36.280 --> 0:49:38.239 have affected us, she's like, does that mean I wasn't 0:49:38.239 --> 0:49:38.640 a good mom? 0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:39.960 I was like, it's not that at all. 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:42.720 You know, I can imagine why that must hurt parents 0:49:42.719 --> 0:49:45.279 so much as well, to know that they've created, you know, 0:49:45.400 --> 0:49:48.320 ripple effects in their children or anything that's been traumatic 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:50.400 in their child. But it's also not a reflection of 0:49:50.440 --> 0:49:53.040 being a bad parent. Like it's you're not a bad 0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:55.640 parent because you went through trauma that you've passed on 0:49:55.680 --> 0:49:57.240 to a child, Like that doesn't make you a bad 0:49:57.280 --> 0:50:00.200 parent in any way. It just makes you human and 0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:03.400 like not a superhero that has healed and done everything 0:50:03.400 --> 0:50:07.040 that you you know, it's it's so unrealistic to not 0:50:07.160 --> 0:50:10.120 carry certain things with you through So for any parent 0:50:10.160 --> 0:50:12.560 this is thing too. It's like, just because good child 0:50:12.600 --> 0:50:15.799 has carried anything with them through through you doesn't make 0:50:15.800 --> 0:50:16.680 you a bad parent. 0:50:16.880 --> 0:50:18.320 Exact yeah, exactly. 0:50:18.960 --> 0:50:21.600 And it's so common to have these different attachment challenges, 0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:23.799 Like it's it's not this and it's also not like 0:50:24.160 --> 0:50:26.880 a diagnosis like you're stuck with it forever. It's a 0:50:26.880 --> 0:50:30.720 set of patterns that we have in relationships. So yeah, absolutely, 0:50:30.800 --> 0:50:34.239 But to answer your question about enmashment, so basically, en 0:50:34.239 --> 0:50:37.160 meashment is that we will emotionally take on others emotions 0:50:37.160 --> 0:50:39.920 as if they're ours, and oftentimes we'll follow through with 0:50:39.960 --> 0:50:43.000 behavior more focused from the outside end rather than the 0:50:43.000 --> 0:50:46.920 inside out. And this can be common in codependent families. 0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:49.920 This can be common culturally, absolutely, and some cultures more 0:50:49.920 --> 0:50:52.799 than others. And this basically teaches us that, like, we 0:50:52.840 --> 0:50:55.800 are responsible for everybody around us and how they feel. 0:50:56.360 --> 0:50:59.200 And there's there's something called directed meashment or indirect so 0:50:59.280 --> 0:51:02.399 directed mesh will often be that enmeshment is taught like, 0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:04.960 let's say you have a brother or a sister and 0:51:05.000 --> 0:51:07.160 they're going through a hard time. You better skip your 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:11.120 soccer game to go be there for your brother because 0:51:11.560 --> 0:51:13.200 and so you know, there can actually be this like 0:51:13.280 --> 0:51:15.520 teaching of that. Or you shouldn't go out on Friday 0:51:15.560 --> 0:51:18.960 with your friends as a teenager because your sibling needs you, 0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:21.319 And so that's very direct where it's taught, and even 0:51:21.320 --> 0:51:24.360 negatively reinforced if you're not operating that way. And then 0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:27.319 there's indirect in meshment, which often happens when we have 0:51:27.400 --> 0:51:31.320 a child who's in a home where they can't understand 0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:32.880 what their parents are going through. But it's a very 0:51:32.920 --> 0:51:35.360 hard time. So I can share a story of a 0:51:35.360 --> 0:51:38.319 client once and I won't say his name, we'll call 0:51:38.440 --> 0:51:43.560 him see yes, And he had a single mom and 0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:46.880 she was extremely depressed, and so he grew up in 0:51:46.920 --> 0:51:49.280 a family where he would always see her like sleeping. 0:51:49.480 --> 0:51:51.800 He always knew something was off and she wasn't okay, 0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:54.040 and so he would kind of like do extra cooking 0:51:54.120 --> 0:51:55.799 or cleaning around the house or take a lot on 0:51:56.560 --> 0:51:59.759 And basically she wasn't like trying to make him take 0:51:59.800 --> 0:52:03.600 on her emotions, but because he could see her in 0:52:03.680 --> 0:52:07.399 distress constantly, he would internalize that and worry like, if 0:52:07.440 --> 0:52:09.360 she's not okay, how am I going to be okay? 0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:11.640 Because his children, we know that we're dependent on our 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:15.879 parents to survive, and so there's this dynamic foster where 0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:19.520 we can become really afraid if somebody's not okay around us. 0:52:19.600 --> 0:52:21.840 And so then as adults, we tend to if we 0:52:21.880 --> 0:52:24.840 come from and mashed backgrounds really take on the feelings 0:52:24.880 --> 0:52:28.080 of others very quickly, and sometimes that can cause us 0:52:28.080 --> 0:52:29.920 to like constantly try to get close to them and 0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:31.759 fix them. Or sometimes we can kind of go through 0:52:31.760 --> 0:52:35.239 burnout really easily because we're taking so much on, which 0:52:35.280 --> 0:52:37.400 instead we cope with by kind of pushing away and 0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:40.560 keeping a distance so that we can just maintain attunement 0:52:40.640 --> 0:52:42.839 to self and how we actually feel as a means 0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:43.400 to regulate. 0:52:43.800 --> 0:52:48.560 Wow, intense, but amazing. Can you be a mix of two? 0:52:49.200 --> 0:52:49.759 Can you be? 0:52:50.360 --> 0:52:52.480 I'm assuming when you're secure, you can only be secure, 0:52:52.560 --> 0:52:54.360 But what about the other three? Can you kind of 0:52:54.480 --> 0:52:56.160 be a mix of all three of them? 0:52:56.360 --> 0:52:59.239 Yes, So you can actually like have what we call 0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:01.759 a primary and secondary attachment style. It's basically that you'll 0:53:01.800 --> 0:53:04.400 learn different patterns, so you're usually rooted in one. So 0:53:04.440 --> 0:53:06.520 you can be secure with like anxious edges, like a 0:53:06.520 --> 0:53:08.520 little bit of anxious, do you know if that comes up, 0:53:08.560 --> 0:53:10.640 but it's not dominantly how you're going to show up. 0:53:10.640 --> 0:53:12.960 You'll still communicate your needs, you have a little less 0:53:12.960 --> 0:53:15.840 core wounds things like that. You can also be fearful 0:53:15.840 --> 0:53:18.960 avoidant leaning more anxious, or fear of avoidant leaning more 0:53:19.000 --> 0:53:22.840 dismissive or dismissive with a little bit of fearful avoidance secondary. 0:53:22.880 --> 0:53:24.239 So you've got like a little bit of hot and 0:53:24.280 --> 0:53:26.759 cold or anxious leaning a little fearful avoidant. But what 0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:28.680 we don't see is a jump from one to the other. 0:53:28.800 --> 0:53:32.480 So you won't generally see a dismissive avoidant person who's 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:36.480 then you know, anxious as their secondary. And one of 0:53:36.520 --> 0:53:38.799 the big differences I think that's important to note is 0:53:38.840 --> 0:53:40.280 it's it's based on how you behave. 0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:43.600 So I was gonna ask, like, what are these symptoms? 0:53:43.680 --> 0:53:47.000 Yeah, yeah, yeah, So dismissive avoidance sometimes will say to 0:53:47.040 --> 0:53:48.880 me like, oh, but I feel anxious. Sometimes, like if 0:53:48.920 --> 0:53:51.480 I ask someone out and I'm waiting to hear back 0:53:51.480 --> 0:53:53.080 from them, I still feel anxious. And it's like, well, 0:53:53.120 --> 0:53:57.120 dismissive avoidance aren't robots, but you're you're still going to 0:53:57.200 --> 0:54:00.160 feel human feelings. But generally what you'll see is when 0:54:00.160 --> 0:54:02.520 dismissed the winds feel a little anxious, they'll tend to deactivate, 0:54:02.560 --> 0:54:06.080 they'll tend to try to minimize their need for attachment as. 0:54:05.920 --> 0:54:06.880 A means of self soothing. 0:54:06.880 --> 0:54:08.319 So they'll be like, well, if it doesn't work, it 0:54:08.320 --> 0:54:11.240 doesn't really matter, or maybe they weren't anyway. 0:54:12.520 --> 0:54:16.880 Do you say that's the dismissing yes, yes, yeah, so 0:54:17.280 --> 0:54:17.560 you can. 0:54:17.520 --> 0:54:19.680 Still feel anxious, but your way of coping with that 0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:21.760 anxiety will be to try it down exactly. 0:54:22.040 --> 0:54:23.560 So that's how you feel, say, want to talk about it, 0:54:23.800 --> 0:54:25.360 I don't want to. I don't want to hear about it. No, 0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:27.399 I don't want to discuss what's making me anxious. 0:54:27.120 --> 0:54:28.760 Right now, because it'll make me more anxious. 0:54:28.760 --> 0:54:30.520 Exactly exactly. 0:54:30.840 --> 0:54:33.520 I am. I can be your your what's the word 0:54:34.160 --> 0:54:36.759 the figure that you can show as a dismissive. 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:39.400 I know what you meant, the mascot. 0:54:39.719 --> 0:54:42.839 They gotta be the mascot, Yeah, for sure. 0:54:42.880 --> 0:54:45.799 And so that's that's the dismissed avoidant. And then you'll 0:54:45.840 --> 0:54:48.960 see anxious attachment styles. When they feel anxious, they keep 0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:50.680 trying to get closer to people, so they'll do the 0:54:50.760 --> 0:54:53.840 exact opposite. And in fact, if you take an anxious 0:54:53.840 --> 0:54:57.000 and a dismissive together, it's yeah, it can be so 0:54:57.080 --> 0:54:59.680 hard because if there's a conflict or an argument, that 0:54:59.800 --> 0:55:02.400 is what needs usually some time and space to process 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:03.799 what they're feeling, to kind of cool off, and then 0:55:03.800 --> 0:55:06.959 they'll come back to it. But anxious attachments, they they're 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:09.640 terrified of time and space, so they're like, no, we 0:55:09.680 --> 0:55:11.440 need to talk about right now, and then the dismissive 0:55:11.480 --> 0:55:13.719 is often like, no, I'm not ready to talk about 0:55:13.760 --> 0:55:15.400 it right now, and then of course we have like 0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:18.839 all of the unnecessary chaos that ensues until people find 0:55:18.840 --> 0:55:22.240 the happy medium through compromising, when they know their attachment 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:23.719 style and they know how to address these things. 0:55:23.760 --> 0:55:26.000 Because I imagine, like if you're an anxious attachment person 0:55:26.040 --> 0:55:28.040 and you're constantly wanting to communicate, but then if you 0:55:28.080 --> 0:55:31.640 have a dismissive avoidant and they're shutting you down, would 0:55:31.640 --> 0:55:35.200 the anxious attachment person end up kind of changing their 0:55:36.280 --> 0:55:39.080 behaviors and how they communicate and almost become a dismissive 0:55:39.080 --> 0:55:43.480 avoidant as well because they're not given the space to express. 0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:44.279 Does that make sense? 0:55:44.360 --> 0:55:45.720 It's such a great question. 0:55:45.840 --> 0:55:48.759 It's very insightful because what you're saying and what you're 0:55:48.800 --> 0:55:51.759 getting at too, is like neuroplasticity, Like yeah, basically, if 0:55:51.719 --> 0:55:54.840 we get around space through repetition and emotion, it happens 0:55:54.840 --> 0:55:57.600 over and over again, and so yes, in theory, that 0:55:57.640 --> 0:56:01.360 will happen whoever we're connected to the most, but generally 0:56:01.480 --> 0:56:05.520 because that sparked from big core wounds, often the core 0:56:05.640 --> 0:56:08.880 wounds and how they're feeling in that situation instead is 0:56:08.880 --> 0:56:12.319 what reinforces those feelings. So often what you'll generally see 0:56:12.400 --> 0:56:13.920 is that they'll just go through a really big power 0:56:13.920 --> 0:56:17.480 struggle intil the relationship dissolves because the anxious attachment will 0:56:17.560 --> 0:56:19.440 keep needing to talk in the moment and then dispissa 0:56:19.440 --> 0:56:21.279 it will be like, oh my goodness, like give me 0:56:21.360 --> 0:56:23.799 a second, and then they'll go into one room and 0:56:23.800 --> 0:56:25.879 then the anxious follows them, and then you know, you'll 0:56:25.960 --> 0:56:28.840 usually see this whole thing unfold or I find. 0:56:28.680 --> 0:56:30.359 You get shut down, like if you get shut down 0:56:30.440 --> 0:56:33.000 lots of times, and then eventually you're like, okay, fine, 0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:35.120 I'm gonna stay quiet. I'm just gonna stay quiet. And 0:56:35.160 --> 0:56:36.799 then you stay quiet, you stay quiet, you stay quiet. 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:39.400 Eventually just blow up and say you're like, actually, I 0:56:39.440 --> 0:56:41.680 wasn't I wasn't actually trying to avoid it. I was 0:56:41.719 --> 0:56:44.440 just trying to keep it in exactly, and then you 0:56:44.440 --> 0:56:46.759 have anxious explosion, yes exactly. 0:56:46.840 --> 0:56:49.720 And so generally you'll see it like people will try 0:56:49.760 --> 0:56:51.640 to not have it go that way, but often that 0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:53.920 will be the output, and then it'll just be like, 0:56:54.360 --> 0:56:56.480 you know, I would see couples come into our programs 0:56:56.480 --> 0:56:58.120 and it would just be like they're just arguing all 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:00.160 the time, or they're just like back and forth at 0:57:00.200 --> 0:57:02.799 each other's throats with that. But then it's like, okay, well, 0:57:02.840 --> 0:57:05.360 if you reprogram your core wounds, you're not so afraid 0:57:05.400 --> 0:57:08.440 of abandonment or you feel safer to be vulnerable if 0:57:08.440 --> 0:57:11.120 you're the more avoidant person, and so then like, okay, 0:57:11.160 --> 0:57:13.640 now we're not so triggered when those things happen. And 0:57:13.680 --> 0:57:15.839 then when you learn to communicate your needs and talk 0:57:15.880 --> 0:57:19.560 about boundaries, it's like, oh, it's totally fine. And generally 0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:21.640 what you'll see people say is the output between like 0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:25.240 a dismissive, avoidant anxious, preoccupied is you'll usually see that 0:57:25.280 --> 0:57:28.080 they learn for the dismissi avoidance to say, hey, I 0:57:28.120 --> 0:57:29.760 don't know what i'm feeling just yet. I need a 0:57:29.760 --> 0:57:32.120 moment to process, but I'm going to take twenty minutes 0:57:32.640 --> 0:57:34.560 and then I'll come back and talk it out with you, 0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:36.320 and I will be here, and so they can take 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:39.000 their space, but they're communicating that they're not abandoning them, 0:57:39.000 --> 0:57:39.640 that they'll come. 0:57:39.560 --> 0:57:40.840 Back that's nice. 0:57:40.880 --> 0:57:44.160 And then the anxious preoccupied knows okay, like they just 0:57:44.160 --> 0:57:46.040 need to figure out what they're feeling, and they're gonna 0:57:46.080 --> 0:57:47.520 come back to me, and then they can hold that 0:57:47.600 --> 0:57:51.000 space for longer. And then as they're reprogramming their wounds 0:57:51.000 --> 0:57:53.760 and those triggers aren't so strong, eventually you just see 0:57:53.760 --> 0:57:57.000 them have a really adaptive, healthy coping mechanisms and relationcation. 0:57:57.520 --> 0:58:00.320 Yes everything, isn't it huge? Okay? 0:58:00.320 --> 0:58:02.800 What would you say a good few, maybe like three 0:58:02.960 --> 0:58:06.120 questions that somebody should be asking themselves before they get 0:58:06.120 --> 0:58:07.160 into a relationship. 0:58:07.320 --> 0:58:08.680 Ooh, I like this question. 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:11.480 I would say. The first question is what are my 0:58:11.560 --> 0:58:15.680 non negotiables? Because this is something that although that should 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:18.080 seem like such an obvious thing. I cannot tell you 0:58:18.120 --> 0:58:19.880 how many times I would see people who would come 0:58:19.920 --> 0:58:21.560 to me and be like, hey, I've been with my 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:24.440 partner for five years. They said that they never were 0:58:24.440 --> 0:58:27.680 going to have children. I wanted children. We both thought 0:58:27.720 --> 0:58:29.840 each other would change, and now here we are, and 0:58:29.880 --> 0:58:32.120 so like, we need to know our non negotiables and 0:58:32.160 --> 0:58:34.040 that can be you know. I know for me, if 0:58:34.040 --> 0:58:37.080 I ever had to start dating again, I would say, 0:58:37.480 --> 0:58:40.760 somebody has to be willing to resolve conflict in a relationship, 0:58:40.840 --> 0:58:42.840 like you know, that would be a non negotiable somebody 0:58:42.880 --> 0:58:46.560 willing to talk things out, or you know, if somebody 0:58:46.640 --> 0:58:48.720 grew up with I had a client once whose mother 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:51.560 passed away from lung cancer. Her non negotiable was, I 0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:54.320 will never date someone who smokes. So like, non negotiables 0:58:54.360 --> 0:58:57.360 are different for each person, but knowing her non negotiables 0:58:57.360 --> 0:58:59.840 just really helps us avoid really big errors in relationships. 0:59:00.440 --> 0:59:02.680 So what are the things that you know? And what 0:59:02.720 --> 0:59:04.760 a non negotiable is is what are the things that 0:59:05.400 --> 0:59:08.439 if somebody exhibited these behaviors or showed up this way 0:59:08.520 --> 0:59:12.160 in a relationship, you staying in that relationship would be 0:59:12.200 --> 0:59:13.200 a betrayal to self. 0:59:13.280 --> 0:59:15.680 Okay, Yeah, Because I was gonna say sometimes no negotiable. 0:59:15.880 --> 0:59:17.360 I was going to ask you, how you know where 0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:19.800 the non negotiables are valid? 0:59:20.120 --> 0:59:20.640 Yeah? 0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:22.040 You know, I mean, like, how do you know whether 0:59:22.040 --> 0:59:24.919 your non negotiables are fair and valid to the other 0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:26.720 person or is it really just about you? 0:59:27.040 --> 0:59:29.920 Yeah? Great question, And I would say that it's exactly that. 0:59:30.000 --> 0:59:32.400 It's like the moment I would stay in relationship with 0:59:32.440 --> 0:59:35.360 somebody who did those things, I would be betraying myself. 0:59:35.360 --> 0:59:37.400 And I would feel like, wow, this is me going 0:59:37.440 --> 0:59:38.320 against my truth. 0:59:38.400 --> 0:59:40.600 And so these are non negotiables more to do with 0:59:40.720 --> 0:59:43.640 personality and behavior rather than non negotiables to do with 0:59:43.760 --> 0:59:50.640 externals like finances or attributes like physical attributes, or can 0:59:50.680 --> 0:59:52.400 they be the non negotiables. 0:59:51.800 --> 0:59:54.320 That's a great question. Those can be the non negotiables. 0:59:54.360 --> 0:59:56.800 Like you know, I've seen people who came from a 0:59:56.840 --> 0:59:59.800 family upbringing where their parents divorce and they lost everything. 1:00:00.000 --> 1:00:01.680 They're non negotiable. It's like I'm not going to get 1:00:01.720 --> 1:00:03.560 with a partner who has more than a x amount 1:00:03.560 --> 1:00:05.560 of money in debt, or I'm not going to marry 1:00:05.560 --> 1:00:07.680 the person if that person can't manage their money or 1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:10.960 you know. So there can definitely be those things. Physical attributes, 1:00:11.200 --> 1:00:14.080 I would say less so, but it can still technically 1:00:14.080 --> 1:00:16.880 be there. But I would say those are more like 1:00:16.920 --> 1:00:20.960 our preferences than non negotiables. But sometimes the negotiables can 1:00:21.000 --> 1:00:23.560 be literally like around money or things like that. Usually 1:00:23.600 --> 1:00:26.320 it's if there's this relationship to like safety that a person. 1:00:26.440 --> 1:00:28.520 There's a deep a meaning behind it, like it's not 1:00:28.640 --> 1:00:31.640 the finance, it's what it represents for them exactly. Yeah, Okay, 1:00:31.640 --> 1:00:34.360 so number one is what are your non negotiables, Yes, well, 1:00:34.480 --> 1:00:35.520 any other questions. 1:00:35.720 --> 1:00:38.960 Number two, what are my standards or needs? Okay, we 1:00:38.960 --> 1:00:40.920 can kind of use them interchangeably in this context. So 1:00:41.000 --> 1:00:42.840 just like the things that I'm actually looking for from 1:00:42.880 --> 1:00:45.240 a relationship. And the reason this is really important is 1:00:45.240 --> 1:00:48.320 because most people go into dating on autopilot, and when 1:00:48.320 --> 1:00:52.800 they don't know their standards, they're working from their autopilot framework, 1:00:52.840 --> 1:00:56.400 which is usually their pre existing core wounds. Often they're 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:58.920 deeply on met needs from childhood. They're expecting people to 1:00:59.000 --> 1:01:01.440 kind of meet without like being able to articulate them. 1:01:01.920 --> 1:01:03.320 And we have to spend. 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:06.160 Our dating stage of relationships vetting, Like if we don't 1:01:06.200 --> 1:01:09.320 do this, we're not dating intentionally, and then you know, 1:01:09.440 --> 1:01:11.040 somebody may be in a period where they don't want 1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:12.880 to date intentionally, they just want to like date people 1:01:12.920 --> 1:01:15.840 and see what they learn. But like, we ideally want 1:01:15.840 --> 1:01:18.640 to be clear about what we're looking for, and ideally 1:01:18.960 --> 1:01:22.280 the dating stage is best done if I know what 1:01:22.280 --> 1:01:25.320 I'm needing, the other person knows what they're needing, and 1:01:25.360 --> 1:01:28.560 we're able to vet during the dating stage by asking 1:01:28.600 --> 1:01:31.800 like one question per date to get to the bottom 1:01:31.800 --> 1:01:33.800 of those things. So if I knew that, Like, a 1:01:33.880 --> 1:01:36.120 really important thing for me is somebody who's also interested 1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:40.240 in personal growth. For example, I might on a date say, hey, 1:01:40.480 --> 1:01:43.000 you know I love personal growth. I'm reading these kinds 1:01:43.000 --> 1:01:44.680 of books. Do you like this stuff? 1:01:44.720 --> 1:01:44.880 You know? 1:01:44.960 --> 1:01:46.800 And so we would just ask the question. 1:01:47.240 --> 1:01:49.320 I think sometimes people hear the standards and needs and 1:01:49.360 --> 1:01:51.640 they're like, I'm going to sit down with my paper 1:01:51.680 --> 1:01:54.800 and I'm going to ask seventy four questions on day one, 1:01:54.880 --> 1:01:56.360 and it's like, no, it's going to be like a 1:01:56.440 --> 1:01:59.800 job interview. But knowing what we're actually looking for is 1:02:00.040 --> 1:02:04.120 extremely important. And then I would say, number three, how 1:02:04.120 --> 1:02:06.120 do I actually feel when I'm around this person? 1:02:07.040 --> 1:02:08.000 Because we do a lot of. 1:02:07.960 --> 1:02:11.880 The you know, oh, I I'm you know, this person's 1:02:11.920 --> 1:02:14.560 dismissing me and they're they're you know, not looking out 1:02:14.560 --> 1:02:16.560 for me, and that's my comfort zone for how I 1:02:16.600 --> 1:02:18.400 treat myself. So I want to dive in their head 1:02:18.440 --> 1:02:22.840 first and then wait. But if that's triggering you, that's 1:02:22.920 --> 1:02:25.600 either for you to work out and your triggers, or 1:02:25.640 --> 1:02:27.840 for you to communicate about and see if the needle moves, 1:02:27.920 --> 1:02:30.760 or probably both. And so just being mindful of like 1:02:30.800 --> 1:02:33.760 what our actual experiences and our emotions. I can't tell 1:02:33.760 --> 1:02:36.479 you how many times I would see people never giving 1:02:36.560 --> 1:02:38.600 up on their ex and then I'd be like, well, 1:02:38.640 --> 1:02:40.600 how did this person actually make you feel the entire 1:02:40.600 --> 1:02:43.320 time you're with them? And they'd be like, oh, like 1:02:43.480 --> 1:02:45.760 really bad, and I'd be like, well, why are you 1:02:45.840 --> 1:02:48.880 chasing them right now? And so just depending on like 1:02:49.080 --> 1:02:51.240 if it's just an attachment style clash, or if it's 1:02:51.240 --> 1:02:54.640 somebody maybe somebody totally different who has like narcissistic personality 1:02:54.680 --> 1:02:57.480 disorder or just isn't healthy, Like we have to be 1:02:57.520 --> 1:02:59.960 able to attune to ourselves and notice how we actually 1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:02.080 you feel in that person's company. 1:03:02.120 --> 1:03:05.920 There's are great questions to ask yourself. I loved what 1:03:05.960 --> 1:03:09.200 you said in the second one about intentionally dating because 1:03:10.920 --> 1:03:12.280 I feel like I can't remember where I heard this. 1:03:12.400 --> 1:03:14.640 But it's like, you have to do the work at 1:03:14.680 --> 1:03:17.200 some point. So you could have fun for a year, 1:03:17.240 --> 1:03:20.040 for two years dating, but then you get married and 1:03:20.080 --> 1:03:22.440 the work starts because then you start noticing, and so 1:03:22.960 --> 1:03:26.120 the work has to be done. You can choose when 1:03:26.160 --> 1:03:28.400 it happens, and so either you end up having to 1:03:28.440 --> 1:03:31.840 do extra work once you're married and start thinking that 1:03:31.920 --> 1:03:33.720 you know someone, but you haven't done the depth of 1:03:33.760 --> 1:03:37.320 the work to figure that out, or slowly, in small 1:03:37.320 --> 1:03:40.880 little ways, as you keep dating, you start asking those questions, 1:03:40.920 --> 1:03:45.800 you start intentionally doing that work. So either you don't 1:03:45.840 --> 1:03:49.560 waste your time or you don't have It's almost like 1:03:49.640 --> 1:03:51.280 leaving your home muchil the last minute. 1:03:51.320 --> 1:03:53.400 You know, but you know you have to do it. 1:03:53.520 --> 1:03:55.560 That was me always, I know I have to finish 1:03:55.640 --> 1:03:59.160 my dissertation, but I am up the night before trying 1:03:59.200 --> 1:04:02.520 to cram everything and so anxious when I'm doing it. 1:04:02.560 --> 1:04:05.040 And so it's either you do things as time is 1:04:05.080 --> 1:04:08.600 going on, or you suddenly realize you've bombarded yourself with 1:04:08.760 --> 1:04:11.080 all this work that has to be done in the relationship. 1:04:11.280 --> 1:04:14.160 And when you start realizing it all at once, imagine 1:04:14.160 --> 1:04:17.240 the pressure that it puts on that relationship, exactly in 1:04:17.280 --> 1:04:20.240 your honeymoon phase of when you when you've just got 1:04:20.240 --> 1:04:22.240 married and sudden you start noticing all these things that 1:04:22.280 --> 1:04:24.280 you had no idea about in the two three years 1:04:24.320 --> 1:04:25.840 of dating because you were busy having fun. 1:04:26.160 --> 1:04:26.760 Exactly. 1:04:26.840 --> 1:04:28.920 Yeah, And I always tell people because some people will 1:04:28.920 --> 1:04:30.160 be like, well, I don't want to do the work. 1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:31.600 The work is work, And I'm always like, you know 1:04:31.640 --> 1:04:34.520 what it's way more work to try to not do 1:04:34.600 --> 1:04:37.360 the work because it's going to get really big and 1:04:37.400 --> 1:04:39.160 there's going to be a lot of work at some point, 1:04:39.800 --> 1:04:42.000 or you're gonna find yourself floating from a relationship to 1:04:42.080 --> 1:04:45.280 relationship going oh my gosh, why are relationship so hard? 1:04:45.440 --> 1:04:47.480 Until you do that in our work for a period 1:04:47.480 --> 1:04:47.800 of time. 1:04:47.920 --> 1:04:49.600 See, my Mum's always right. Don't leave your homework to 1:04:49.680 --> 1:04:50.320 the last minute. 1:04:50.400 --> 1:04:54.120 Okay, don't leave your homework to the last minute. What 1:04:54.120 --> 1:04:57.600 would you say are questions you mentioned, you know, asking 1:04:57.600 --> 1:04:59.760 certain questions on days? What would you say are the 1:04:59.800 --> 1:05:01.840 questtions you should ask your partner? Do you have like 1:05:01.880 --> 1:05:04.960 three questions that if you're in a dating environment, you're 1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:06.840 starting to date someone, what would be three questions that 1:05:06.880 --> 1:05:07.800 you recommend asking. 1:05:07.880 --> 1:05:10.440 That's a great question. I would say number one, like 1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:12.200 what is this person actually looking for? 1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:12.720 You know? 1:05:12.760 --> 1:05:16.000 And I think having that question in there, I don't 1:05:16.000 --> 1:05:17.840 think that has to be like date number one, but 1:05:17.880 --> 1:05:20.360 I think that when somebody is more secure and they're 1:05:20.440 --> 1:05:23.840 rooted in themselves, like that's something you ask when you're 1:05:23.840 --> 1:05:26.520 a few weeks into the dating stage, because if you 1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:29.280 don't have the security to just like have the dialogue 1:05:29.320 --> 1:05:32.800 or conversation, and if you're looking for something different than them, 1:05:33.040 --> 1:05:35.080 even if you're compatible in lots of ways, if you're 1:05:35.120 --> 1:05:37.560 different in different stages of life, like that actually just 1:05:37.560 --> 1:05:39.840 becomes a non negotiable. So like what are they looking 1:05:39.840 --> 1:05:42.480 for like in this season of their life in regards 1:05:42.480 --> 1:05:44.920 to dating, but also what are they looking for in 1:05:44.960 --> 1:05:46.439 a partner? I would say it would be number two, 1:05:46.480 --> 1:05:48.800 Like what are those important qualities and characteristics? And it 1:05:49.040 --> 1:05:52.080 goes back to this part where vetting should be reciprocal, 1:05:52.160 --> 1:05:54.560 like we're not just supposed to that. It's funny because 1:05:54.560 --> 1:05:57.040 different attachment cells may do this in different ways. So 1:05:57.200 --> 1:06:00.560 anxious attachment cells will kind of like find somebody attractive 1:06:00.600 --> 1:06:02.960 and like them, and then they won't vet them at all. 1:06:02.960 --> 1:06:04.840 They'll just people please them and try to win them over. 1:06:05.480 --> 1:06:08.240 Dismissive avoidance sometimes because they get afraid of being vulnerable. 1:06:08.280 --> 1:06:10.280 Can flow find a little bit when they get too close, 1:06:10.680 --> 1:06:12.640 so they can be like a little nitpicky of people 1:06:12.960 --> 1:06:15.040 because they don't want to feel like, oh yeah, this 1:06:15.160 --> 1:06:17.080 is a perfect connection, or they don't want to like 1:06:17.120 --> 1:06:18.680 them too much or put them on a pedestal, so 1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:21.360 they'll kind of like flow find a little bit, and 1:06:21.520 --> 1:06:24.760 the balance is what we're ideally looking for. We're looking 1:06:24.800 --> 1:06:26.960 for I'm going to vet you and look for the 1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:29.520 qualities that you have and see if those are a 1:06:29.520 --> 1:06:31.440 good fit for my life without being two in the 1:06:31.480 --> 1:06:35.440 flaw finding space. And I'm also going to, you know, 1:06:35.640 --> 1:06:39.080 make sure that I'm clear about your qualities and I'm 1:06:39.080 --> 1:06:41.360 going to open up about my own so that you 1:06:41.360 --> 1:06:42.080 can see if I'm a. 1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:42.720 Good fit for you. 1:06:43.160 --> 1:06:45.040 And so it's not people pleasing, but it's being open 1:06:45.080 --> 1:06:47.520 and vulnerable and transparent so we can see if this 1:06:47.600 --> 1:06:50.080 is actually something that could work. And so I would 1:06:50.120 --> 1:06:52.320 say those are two really important questions. And I would 1:06:52.320 --> 1:06:55.280 say the third question is really going to be about 1:06:55.320 --> 1:06:59.000 like what are your non negotiables around dating, because again, 1:06:59.080 --> 1:07:01.600 when we can get that touper clear, we put ourselves 1:07:01.600 --> 1:07:03.120 in a position where we're just not like wasting our 1:07:03.160 --> 1:07:05.320 time and we're able to do things so much more intentionally. 1:07:05.600 --> 1:07:07.400 Thank you. Those are great question for people. 1:07:07.480 --> 1:07:11.000 I actually had written down the question of do you 1:07:11.440 --> 1:07:14.600 does your style make you that way towards yourself and 1:07:14.720 --> 1:07:16.920 you've already answered that, but it was really interesting to 1:07:16.920 --> 1:07:19.280 me when I read my question after going through the 1:07:19.320 --> 1:07:22.120 attachment styles and reading the book that I didn't even 1:07:22.800 --> 1:07:25.600 you know, in my mind, I wasn't sure, Like I 1:07:25.680 --> 1:07:28.680 was like, but what's crazy to me is that you 1:07:28.720 --> 1:07:31.080 don't expect them to be something you do to yourself. 1:07:31.240 --> 1:07:32.840 Yes, Like I think you could read that. 1:07:33.000 --> 1:07:34.800 I think you could go through these attachment styles and 1:07:34.800 --> 1:07:36.880 be like, yeah, he presents is this and I present 1:07:37.000 --> 1:07:40.520 as this to him or to her, but thinking about 1:07:40.680 --> 1:07:44.280 the fact that I do it to myself, Yes, it's 1:07:44.760 --> 1:07:45.720 I didn't connect the two. 1:07:45.960 --> 1:07:48.360 Yeah, And that's like, I think so important for anybody 1:07:48.400 --> 1:07:50.560 listening to flash out to like dismissive a point sometimes 1:07:50.600 --> 1:07:53.840 will neglect their own emotions because it's that internalized emotional 1:07:53.920 --> 1:07:56.280 neglact and sometimes kind of like push things down or 1:07:56.320 --> 1:07:58.040 like step it away or avoid it a little bit. 1:07:58.080 --> 1:07:59.760 That because there are other people in the world going 1:07:59.760 --> 1:08:02.880 through this and this, and so why should I feel 1:08:02.880 --> 1:08:03.600 sad about this? 1:08:04.120 --> 1:08:04.840 And that's like. 1:08:04.840 --> 1:08:09.640 In its own essence, it's this beautifully packaged emotional denial, 1:08:10.400 --> 1:08:12.360 right because it's like, oh, like other people are going 1:08:12.360 --> 1:08:14.560 through harder things, so I'm not allowed to have or 1:08:14.560 --> 1:08:17.679 be entitled to my feelings, which is just emotional neglect 1:08:17.720 --> 1:08:20.240 of self in a different form and so, and you'll 1:08:20.240 --> 1:08:23.519 see like for each person they are that to self. Right, 1:08:23.680 --> 1:08:26.320 anxious preoccupants are people pleasing everybody else, but in that 1:08:26.640 --> 1:08:29.680 they're literally abandoning themselves all the time. And so no 1:08:29.800 --> 1:08:33.280 wonder their abandonment wound is so strong is because they're 1:08:33.360 --> 1:08:35.920 keeping it alive. Like I always think of when we 1:08:35.920 --> 1:08:37.720 don't know how to meet our own needs, and this 1:08:37.800 --> 1:08:40.479 is very like anxious attachment cell. Like imagine that you 1:08:40.520 --> 1:08:43.160 have an anxious attachment cell and they're driving to a 1:08:43.160 --> 1:08:45.760 gas station and their gas tank is fully empty. You 1:08:45.800 --> 1:08:47.599 pull into the gas station and you're like, oh my god, 1:08:47.600 --> 1:08:50.240 it better be open. You're panicking. But if your gas 1:08:50.280 --> 1:08:52.400 tank is always halfway full when you pull in, if 1:08:52.400 --> 1:08:54.439 this gas station is not open or they're out of gas, 1:08:54.520 --> 1:08:55.880 you're like, oh, that's fine, I can go to the 1:08:55.880 --> 1:08:58.479 next gas station because your tank is half full. And 1:08:58.520 --> 1:09:00.200 that's really what it means to meet our own needs 1:09:00.240 --> 1:09:02.599 a relationship to self. Not only is it our form 1:09:02.640 --> 1:09:05.920 of self soothing, but it's also our ability to not 1:09:06.080 --> 1:09:09.559 panic and get so dysregulated if somebody's not available to us, 1:09:09.600 --> 1:09:12.240 because we're not running on empty in the relationship to self, 1:09:12.280 --> 1:09:14.320 all the time, and so because they keep themselves on 1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:17.160 empty there, they fear that from other people just like 1:09:17.200 --> 1:09:19.839 by the same token, like even for a fearful avoidant, 1:09:19.840 --> 1:09:20.719 which I haven't mentioned. 1:09:21.200 --> 1:09:22.120 Like for me, I. 1:09:22.120 --> 1:09:24.360 Would be like all or nothing all the time with myself, 1:09:24.720 --> 1:09:26.560 like really focusing doing a really good job for a 1:09:26.600 --> 1:09:28.880 few days on being kind to myself whatever, and then 1:09:28.960 --> 1:09:29.559 drop off and. 1:09:29.479 --> 1:09:30.759 Go to the full opposite direction. 1:09:30.960 --> 1:09:32.640 And like you'd see that, and then of course I 1:09:32.680 --> 1:09:35.200 show up that way in relationships because that's relationship to 1:09:35.240 --> 1:09:35.920 me first. 1:09:35.840 --> 1:09:38.840 Yeah, I think we just were not taught to even 1:09:38.920 --> 1:09:41.640 reflect on ourselves in that way. You read all these 1:09:41.640 --> 1:09:44.120 things and you're thinking about how am I acting to 1:09:44.160 --> 1:09:46.200 this person or how is this person acting to me? 1:09:46.760 --> 1:09:48.559 But the last thing you think about is how am 1:09:48.600 --> 1:09:49.639 I acting to myself? 1:09:50.000 --> 1:09:52.679 How am I relating to myself? How am I speaking 1:09:52.720 --> 1:09:53.320 to myself? 1:09:53.560 --> 1:09:55.439 And so I think it's such a great exercise to 1:09:55.479 --> 1:09:58.400 go through, like start with yourself before you end up 1:09:58.400 --> 1:10:01.560 thinking about anybody else that you or acting towards or 1:10:02.960 --> 1:10:04.080 having an interaction with. 1:10:04.280 --> 1:10:05.439 It makes such a difference. 1:10:05.600 --> 1:10:07.920 Absolutely, can you. 1:10:07.840 --> 1:10:10.240 Tell people because I haven't even mentioned I mentioned the 1:10:10.280 --> 1:10:13.439 book briefly, but there are two books of yours that 1:10:13.520 --> 1:10:16.559 I have. Could you share the books with people? Because 1:10:16.560 --> 1:10:19.439 I think that after listening to this, I mean, how 1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:22.400 informative was this. This was such a great conversation. But 1:10:22.439 --> 1:10:24.120 I think for people to know what should the next 1:10:24.160 --> 1:10:26.400 steps be, I think reading your book would be great. 1:10:26.439 --> 1:10:28.200 So could you share both your books and just give 1:10:28.240 --> 1:10:30.200 a little bit about what each of them are? 1:10:30.479 --> 1:10:31.320 Yes, thank you. 1:10:31.880 --> 1:10:34.080 So the first is called The Attachment Theory Guide, and 1:10:34.080 --> 1:10:35.840 it's kind of like about the attachment cells and how 1:10:35.840 --> 1:10:39.280 to recognize which one you are. And then there's our 1:10:39.280 --> 1:10:41.840 second book, which is called Learning Love, and it's all 1:10:41.880 --> 1:10:43.960 about like it's really learning self love and how to 1:10:43.960 --> 1:10:47.120 bring that into relationships. But it's actually about those major characteristics, 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:51.799 so reprogramming core wounds, learning your needs, emotional regulation, the boundaries, 1:10:51.800 --> 1:10:53.920 and the communication. And so we go through when we 1:10:53.920 --> 1:10:56.240 break down how to recognize each attachment cell, but then 1:10:56.320 --> 1:10:59.280 how to reprogram your attachment cell and actually heal it 1:10:59.320 --> 1:11:02.400 to become secure attached, and we go through all the 1:11:02.439 --> 1:11:04.679 different like reprogramming exercises and all that stuff. 1:11:04.720 --> 1:11:05.200 So it's great. 1:11:05.280 --> 1:11:06.760 So you feel like people are able to do this 1:11:06.840 --> 1:11:10.800 by themselves without needing the help of a professional if 1:11:10.960 --> 1:11:13.680 they can go through the you know, go through the 1:11:13.680 --> 1:11:16.559 books and they able to help themselves before needing to 1:11:16.600 --> 1:11:18.280 maybe go out to somebody to do that. 1:11:18.600 --> 1:11:21.120 Yes, they're designed to be that way for sure. 1:11:21.280 --> 1:11:22.840 I mean I don't want to tell people like, don't 1:11:22.840 --> 1:11:26.120 ever get support, but it's all designed to be that 1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:26.639 you can. 1:11:26.479 --> 1:11:28.960 Go through and become securely attached for doing that work. 1:11:29.160 --> 1:11:30.800 Yeah, my god, thank you. This is amazing. 1:11:30.840 --> 1:11:32.479 But I want to ask you a few questions about 1:11:32.520 --> 1:11:35.800 you actually, Okay, what would you say is something that 1:11:35.840 --> 1:11:38.120 people don't know about you that you would want them to. 1:11:39.360 --> 1:11:41.920 I would say, I'm not sure if it's like I 1:11:41.920 --> 1:11:43.840 want them to, but I would say that something I 1:11:43.920 --> 1:11:46.719 never share is I actually grew up and played soccer. 1:11:46.840 --> 1:11:49.519 I played Division one soccer. I got a full ride 1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:51.840 soccer scholarship. It was like my passion and like my 1:11:51.960 --> 1:11:54.400 first really big thing. I was obsessed with my young 1:11:54.439 --> 1:11:58.160 adult life. And yeah, fun fact amazing. And what are 1:11:58.200 --> 1:12:00.439 you reading and listening to right now? What are your 1:12:00.439 --> 1:12:02.840 favorite podcasts? Your favorite books at the moment? Oh my gosh, 1:12:02.840 --> 1:12:05.360 there's so many. I feel like I'm just so I 1:12:05.400 --> 1:12:07.840 love a course in Miracles. I'm really into like a 1:12:07.880 --> 1:12:10.479 lot of the spiritual stuff. And so every morning I 1:12:10.520 --> 1:12:12.759 listened to like an hour long Course of Miracles podcast 1:12:12.840 --> 1:12:14.760 go through like the Daily last Day. 1:12:14.800 --> 1:12:17.160 They're so good. It takes a bit to like it. 1:12:17.240 --> 1:12:19.280 I didn't get into it right away, but I'm really 1:12:19.280 --> 1:12:21.519 into like the spiritual side of things too, and so 1:12:21.680 --> 1:12:25.960 I love that. That's like my my like deep peaceful activity. 1:12:26.840 --> 1:12:30.160 And then I'm reading doctor Gaber mad Day's book, one 1:12:30.160 --> 1:12:31.439 of those newer books that he wrote, I think with 1:12:31.439 --> 1:12:34.120 his son. It's called The Myth of Normal and I love, 1:12:34.160 --> 1:12:35.719 I love all the stuff that where he talks about 1:12:35.720 --> 1:12:38.599 like the body and how this is affected and yeah, 1:12:38.800 --> 1:12:40.680 and I'm also reading this other book because I'm really 1:12:40.760 --> 1:12:44.240 interested in a lot of health related things too, called 1:12:44.280 --> 1:12:49.160 The Root Cause Oh Bye, Isabella wentz Okay. 1:12:49.200 --> 1:12:51.000 And it's like that's one of the best health book 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:53.960 I've ever read. It's so good. So yeah, really good ones. 1:12:53.960 --> 1:12:55.800 It's amazing. And what are you working on at the moment? 1:12:55.800 --> 1:12:59.200 Are you excited about anything in life that you're ready 1:12:59.240 --> 1:13:00.000 to share with people? 1:13:00.920 --> 1:13:02.160 Yeah? So we are. 1:13:03.320 --> 1:13:05.320 So we have the Personal Development School. We have like 1:13:05.320 --> 1:13:08.000 all these programs are like more immersive programs for becoming 1:13:08.040 --> 1:13:11.599 securely attached with these like ninety day boot camps, and 1:13:11.840 --> 1:13:15.439 I'm working on creating this certification for people to also 1:13:15.479 --> 1:13:17.519 get like certified in all these different things. 1:13:18.240 --> 1:13:21.280 So excited for that. And then I'm working on preparing 1:13:21.320 --> 1:13:21.599 to have. 1:13:21.560 --> 1:13:23.320 A baby in a year or so, Like I'm like, 1:13:23.320 --> 1:13:25.000 we're going to maybe start the process, my husband and 1:13:25.040 --> 1:13:26.600 I in a little bit, so like that's sort of 1:13:26.640 --> 1:13:27.840 a personal thing that I'm working. 1:13:27.880 --> 1:13:29.679 Oh. I love that you shared that because I think 1:13:30.600 --> 1:13:34.120 the preparation you know, Iraida talks about that all the time. 1:13:34.240 --> 1:13:37.519 How when you're thinking about having a child, need you 1:13:37.600 --> 1:13:40.000 need at least a minimum of six months, if not 1:13:40.040 --> 1:13:43.080 a year to start not just preparing your mind or 1:13:43.080 --> 1:13:47.040 your external environment, but your physical body and to invite 1:13:47.280 --> 1:13:49.880 you know, your in your in your spiritual state, your 1:13:49.920 --> 1:13:52.360 mental state, and your physical state to be prepared to 1:13:52.400 --> 1:13:55.200 invite a beautiful soul into your body and into your life. 1:13:55.360 --> 1:13:57.439 And so I love that you said that you're preparing 1:13:57.479 --> 1:13:59.640 for that because I think it is something that is 1:13:59.680 --> 1:14:03.080 such a uh it's a responsibility and it's something so 1:14:03.280 --> 1:14:05.960 magical that happens that to spend the time to prepare 1:14:06.000 --> 1:14:07.040 for it is so important. 1:14:07.080 --> 1:14:08.640 Oh, that's so cool. It's so cool to hear that. 1:14:08.680 --> 1:14:09.759 I've never heard that before. 1:14:09.760 --> 1:14:12.519 I'll share some books with you. Honest really love that 1:14:13.000 --> 1:14:15.599 last question. When was it the last time you cried? 1:14:17.200 --> 1:14:19.439 Oh my gosh, are you a crier? I have a crier? 1:14:19.560 --> 1:14:20.439 Are you are? 1:14:21.080 --> 1:14:23.800 I cry happy tears a lot more now than sad tears. 1:14:23.840 --> 1:14:27.040 But I will say, my poor dear sister is going 1:14:27.040 --> 1:14:29.080 through a hard time physically with some health stuff, some 1:14:29.120 --> 1:14:30.280 really serious health stuff. 1:14:30.320 --> 1:14:32.200 So I cried a few days ago about that. 1:14:32.360 --> 1:14:34.360 We were really worried about her. She she had to 1:14:34.400 --> 1:14:36.920 go to the hospital. She she went through a lot 1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:39.640 of like heart issues, and she's really young, so that 1:14:39.800 --> 1:14:40.280 made me cry. 1:14:40.280 --> 1:14:42.679 I feel like if I told her cry on your podcast. 1:14:42.760 --> 1:14:44.760 No, you didn't have to go into detail, but I 1:14:44.800 --> 1:14:48.080 appreciate you doing that, and honestly, everybody on everybody does 1:14:48.080 --> 1:14:51.080 listening to this, say little prayer for your sister. I 1:14:50.800 --> 1:14:53.280 think I wished her well and thank you so much 1:14:53.320 --> 1:14:53.639 for this. 1:14:53.920 --> 1:14:55.599 This was phenomenal, I think. 1:14:56.240 --> 1:14:58.439 I mean, I can't wait for all of you to 1:14:58.439 --> 1:15:01.720 listen to this, And when you do, please please go 1:15:01.960 --> 1:15:06.920 and find Tyson's share all your thoughts and give her thanks. 1:15:06.960 --> 1:15:09.000 If you appreciated it. Thank you all so much. 1:15:09.680 --> 1:15:13.240 Subscribe to the podcast and I would love feedback whatever 1:15:13.280 --> 1:15:13.479 it is. 1:15:13.680 --> 1:15:14.360 Thanks so much.