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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Donald Trump says Sidney Powell was

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Speaker 1: never his attorney, and of course there's a tweet saying otherwise.

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Speaker 1: We have such a fun show for you. Today, Semaphore's

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Speaker 1: Dave Weigel drops by to talk about the hidden details

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Speaker 1: in the latest FEC filing in the twenty twenty four

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Speaker 1: presidential race.

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Speaker 2: Then we'll talk to New York Times as Nick.

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Speaker 1: Corus Santini about the really fascinating new political dynamic in

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Speaker 1: the great state of Mississippi and how Democrats could finally

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Speaker 1: change the tide there. But first we have the new

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Speaker 1: weekly guest every single Monday. You may remember him as

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Speaker 1: being the King of the Panhandle, the host of the

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Speaker 1: Enemies List, the Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson. Welcome Enemies List,

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Speaker 1: Fred Comrade.

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Speaker 3: Oh, now you're going to trigger all the people on

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Speaker 3: the Internet who don't know what comrade or communism or

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Speaker 3: socialism really is.

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Speaker 4: It's always my favorite. You're an authoritarian, Nazi, socialist crypto. Okay,

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Speaker 4: shut up, people.

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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome Rick Wilson. Just for those the few who

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Speaker 1: don't recognize your voice. My man, Rick Wilson.

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Speaker 4: The band is back together.

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Speaker 2: We're literally just here to gloat about Jim Jordan.

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Speaker 3: You know, twenty five votes. We're recording this at just

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Speaker 3: afternoon on Friday. Twenty five votes. Now, how's it going

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Speaker 3: for you, Jim?

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Speaker 4: You feeling good? Brother?

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Speaker 1: My favorite moment was he decided I'm going to have

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Speaker 1: a press conference where I use the bully pulpit bully,

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Speaker 1: and then we're going to grind it out all weekend. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: a lot of members aren't even there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, I call me crazy, but the

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Speaker 3: application of the hot new political tactic of death threats

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Speaker 3: to family members has somehow non worked out to Jim Jordan's.

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Speaker 3: Somebody asked me this morning, like if you're met Jordan.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, yeah, I met I'm a bunch of times

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Speaker 3: back in the day. And they're like, what did you

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Speaker 3: think of him? I'm like, he really is dumb. Now,

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Speaker 3: don't mistake but Jim Jordan has a kind of like

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Speaker 3: fairal animal cunning about him. But this is a guy

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Speaker 3: who thinks he's smart. Because you listen to a lot

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Speaker 3: of Rush Limbaugh in the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 1: The last time we talked about Jim Jordan, which is

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Speaker 1: you know, we talk a lot.

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Speaker 2: You said, Jim Jordan looks like he has rabies.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, I did not wrong. He is a guy

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Speaker 4: who looks the part he's playing of Rabbid.

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Speaker 3: He looks like a guy whose family engaged in generations

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Speaker 3: of enthusiastic and breeding up in a holler somewhere in Pennsyltuckia.

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Speaker 1: I feel think you're gonna get canceled for every word

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Speaker 1: in that sentence pedicle, Tuckie, that's a real.

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Speaker 2: Thing reading listen.

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Speaker 1: I can't say it because I'm an elitist globalist quote unquote.

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Speaker 3: I'm worse than an elitist globalist. I'm an elitist globalist neocon.

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Speaker 3: I get a long email today about my sins as

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Speaker 3: a neocon and that my thirty plus year career in

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Speaker 3: politics had only been to serve quote the global Jew.

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Speaker 2: The global jew. What about the military industrial comment.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to reveal more of my dirty laundry.

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Speaker 3: This email is like fifteen pages long of like various

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Speaker 3: links and the'm not going to click on and terrible

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Speaker 3: memes and like your whole career.

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Speaker 4: You should be ashamed. Your whole career has been in

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Speaker 4: service to the global Jew. I'm like, like the local Jew.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 4: I'm well, I'm in urga Jew as a rule, you know.

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Speaker 1: But I mean I have to say, this is like

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Speaker 1: this moment in American life where Jews we are popular.

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Speaker 1: It's like the first time ever my whole life. I'm

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Speaker 1: forty five years old, and like the polling is like

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Speaker 1: Americans love Jews.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, let's go.

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Speaker 1: Man, this is her moment, soon to be eclipsed by

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Speaker 1: another genocide.

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Speaker 2: But we'll take it for now.

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Speaker 4: You know, what's the downside? What could possible?

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Speaker 1: So you're listening to this on Monday, but I want

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Speaker 1: to talk to you about the carnage of Friday because

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Speaker 1: one of the amazing inadvertent laugh lines, and there were

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Speaker 1: many Kevin McCarthy talking about what a great legislator Jim

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Speaker 1: Jordan was.

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Speaker 4: It was almost like borsh belt humor in the room.

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Speaker 4: Take my wife place, who's cheering?

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Speaker 2: They were cheering.

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Speaker 3: The Democrats lost their minds correctly because there's a moment

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Speaker 3: where look, here's the thing about politics. There are these

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Speaker 3: formalities and these traditions and these sort of modes of

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Speaker 3: speaking that are inherently political, and it's to say, my

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Speaker 3: good friend, the honorable gentleman from the state of Arkansas.

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Speaker 3: But when you say the words in a sentence in

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Speaker 3: front of humans, who can think Jim Jordan is an

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Speaker 3: effective legislator? Of course the reaction is people are running

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Speaker 3: like like just dying, like howling with laughter, because it's

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Speaker 3: like saying that I'm a terrific ballerina. It's like praising,

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Speaker 3: you know, my ability to play the saxophone. These are

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Speaker 3: things that I know what they are, but I couldn't

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Speaker 3: do them. He had a gun to my head. And honestly,

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Speaker 3: why would you pick Kevin McCarthy to endorse I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is a guy who's like radioactive waste in the

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Speaker 3: House of Representatives right now in the Republican caucus. The

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Speaker 3: people who loved him are like, you idiot, but people

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Speaker 3: who hate him are like, why is he endorsing Jim Jordan?

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Speaker 3: And so Jordan's going backwards right now. There was a

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Speaker 3: moment yesterday on well Thursday, where that Patrick McHenry boomlet happened,

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Speaker 3: and I was told by a staffer, a Republican staffer

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Speaker 3: interestingly in the House that they thought they were going

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Speaker 3: to have a moment where they could get mckenry in,

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Speaker 3: and then an article ran that said Wall Street.

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Speaker 4: Joyous over possible McHenry, and it was like.

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Speaker 3: All the money's like no, now we must now, we

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Speaker 3: must purge the tiny wee fellow.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I do want to say, he's adorable,

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Speaker 1: and we're not going to make fun of the fact

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Speaker 1: that he's short. We're going to make fun of the

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Speaker 1: fact that he has looked like he was fifty since

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Speaker 1: he was twenty nine years old.

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Speaker 4: Yes, that is correct. He is an old man.

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Speaker 3: He has always been an old man in a young

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Speaker 3: man's body.

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Speaker 2: But I don't find him unattractive.

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Speaker 1: Well you know, I mean, I'm not going to ask

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Speaker 1: you to weigh in as a very heterosexual man on

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Speaker 1: whether or not you would would do McHenry.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think he's going to tack.

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Speaker 3: I wish the podcast viewers right now can see the

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Speaker 3: fluttering of my eyes and the rolling back in my head.

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Speaker 2: You really we need a visual for that.

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Speaker 3: I really am a robustly heterosexual guy, regardless of what

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Speaker 3: the magus think online.

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Speaker 2: So would you No.

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Speaker 3: I mean in the FMK game, he's kind of a

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Speaker 3: Mary Yeah.

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Speaker 4: More than any anything else.

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Speaker 2: He's adorable.

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Speaker 1: Can I just say, these Wall Street people, those are

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Speaker 1: your donors?

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Speaker 2: Maga, like they're your donors.

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Speaker 3: This is the great part of this whole story is

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Speaker 3: Wall Street and private equity and a lot of the

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Speaker 3: tech people that are the bread and butter of Republican

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Speaker 3: major donor world. Right now, they have been frozen for

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Speaker 3: ten days, Yeah, they have been frozen, well twelve days now, really,

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Speaker 3: and what have they seen from Joe Biden. They've seen

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Speaker 3: an American president boldly striding the world foreign policy successes,

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Speaker 3: going out there representing the country effectively and ably putting

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Speaker 3: the lie to all this.

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Speaker 4: Jose too old to even move out of his future

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Speaker 4: in all that crap.

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Speaker 2: This is second war zone visit.

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Speaker 3: Right, second war zone visit, and once again, Donald Trump's

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Speaker 3: last visit to a war zone was a disco in

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Speaker 3: Turtle Bay in nineteen seventy seven.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Studio fifty four was his Vietnam right. But

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Speaker 1: it's a really good point they I have to say,

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Speaker 1: like last night, I was listening to Lawrence's show this

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Speaker 1: morning and Lawrence was like, I'm going to Africa and

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Speaker 1: if I can get.

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Speaker 2: My jet lag as well as Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the man has been crossing the globe again again.

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Speaker 4: In my old life, I traveled a lot to a

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Speaker 4: lot of places.

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Speaker 3: And this guy is eighty years old, and he's up

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Speaker 3: and going off the plane and rolling into diplomatic and

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Speaker 3: political meetings with Beebee and his cabinet. He's talking to

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Speaker 3: first responders in the families who've been injured by the

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Speaker 3: Hamas terrorist attack. He is talking to American military forces,

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Speaker 3: getting briefing from them on what's going on. This is

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Speaker 3: a robust guy. He is a man in full and yes,

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Speaker 3: part of this is I'm going to be sixty in

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Speaker 3: a couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: Right right after Thanksgiving, right twenty first.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and here's the thing. I have a demonic amount

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Speaker 3: of energy. I am up early, I go hard, I

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Speaker 3: am like always whatever damn thing is in my brain.

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Speaker 3: But this guy is twenty years older than me, and

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Speaker 3: he's killing it. He gets back off the plane, rolls

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Speaker 3: into the Oval Office and delivers one of the best

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Speaker 3: foreign policy speeches that I've ever seen. And I say

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Speaker 3: that as a student of presidential rhetoric and speeches and politics,

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Speaker 3: and people are going to look back on that and

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Speaker 3: by the way if you blind if you did a

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Speaker 3: blind listing to that and said, hey, did you hear

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Speaker 3: the speech from Donald Trump where he said and you

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Speaker 3: read them Biden's speech, Republicans would be like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a miracle. That's America. We're strong, We're toough,

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Speaker 4: that's American values. There.

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Speaker 3: If you told them that was Ronald Reagan, they go,

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Speaker 3: of course, it was Ronald Reagan. It was inspiring, it

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Speaker 3: was uplifting. It was the greatest, the greatest of America's

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Speaker 3: values put on the world stage. But instead now they're

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Speaker 3: going Joe Baden was drooling into his depends on the vision,

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Speaker 3: the over office, the triggering he is imposing right now

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Speaker 3: on people like Bongo and all the various weirdos. It

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Speaker 3: has been magnificent to watch. It has been delightful to

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Speaker 3: watch because he just won't die.

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Speaker 4: He just won't fall over the dead. He just won't

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Speaker 4: drool on himself.

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Speaker 3: He's presidenting at a level that would make Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: fan himself and call for or his fileo fish valet.

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Speaker 1: But let's talk about Donald Trump's filet of fish valet. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he had a diet coke button. But

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Speaker 1: he didn't have a filet of fish valet. But back

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Speaker 1: from the House to that speech, and I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about that speech. It was a short speech, but

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Speaker 1: it was the traditional American values. Stop genocide are sort

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Speaker 1: of American values since World War Two. Stop genocide. This

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Speaker 1: is cheaper to do it now than later.

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Speaker 2: What did you think?

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Speaker 1: And also, I'm going to ask you a question here,

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Speaker 1: what you're going to hate? This is going to make

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Speaker 1: you crazy because this is the thing that makes you crazy.

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Speaker 1: This is one of my I know, the couple things

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Speaker 1: that really make you grez. Do you feel like there

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Speaker 1: is a section of the Democratic Party that just could

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Speaker 1: not hear what Biden had to say last night.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's a small and frankly vocal. It's small, it's vocal,

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Speaker 3: but it's frankly smaller than I expected it would be

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Speaker 3: in the terms of the crisis we're watching right now.

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Speaker 4: I think that.

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Speaker 3: There is a near unanimity in the Democratic Party about

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Speaker 3: what's at stake, because this isn't just sort of a

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Speaker 3: reflexive anti Israel rhetoric. There are people who understand now

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Speaker 3: that the stakes aren't the Palestinians protesting in the streets

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Speaker 3: of London or Washington or New York. It's been made

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Speaker 3: manifest now that Hamas will kill children and slit their throats,

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Speaker 3: that Hamas will torture hostages and send the tapes to

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Speaker 3: their families, that Hamas will hold Americans hostage. And the

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party it has had, it's been dangling in front

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Speaker 3: of them, and Joe Biden has taken it. They can

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Speaker 3: recapture the position in the mind of the American people

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Speaker 3: as a robust, moral foreign policy leadership role that they

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Speaker 3: really had sort of lost Vietnam, sort of really polluted

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Speaker 3: it because of Johnson. That's probably been since JFK or

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Speaker 3: FDR or Truman, where they've had this sense of they're

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Speaker 3: the strong foreign policy party because you know what, I

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Speaker 3: don't see I see an eighty bit fraction of Democrats

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Speaker 3: right now who are I don't even want to say

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Speaker 3: pro Hamas, but so pro Palestinian that their anti Semitism

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Speaker 3: is just starting to creep in. But what do you

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Speaker 3: see in the Republican Party. You see an enormous well

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Speaker 3: that too, but you see an enormous number of Republicans

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Speaker 3: now who are out there tweeting Hamas propaganda just because

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Speaker 3: it hurts Joe Biden. You're seeing an enormous number of

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Speaker 3: Republicans in the last two years who have been fully

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Speaker 3: on the side of Vladimir Putin and Russia, and this

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Speaker 3: has put them in a really strange box politically. That

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Speaker 3: box is very it's tighter now because there are two

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Speaker 3: sides in this world right now. There are countries like

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Speaker 3: Iran and Russia and groups like Islamic State and Hamas.

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Speaker 3: They're on one side of the column and the rest

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Speaker 3: of the world's on the other side of the column.

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Speaker 3: And they're a much larger faction in the Republican parties

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Speaker 3: supporting Putin and Hamas right now than there are in

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Speaker 3: the Democratic Party. And I find it really interesting how

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Speaker 3: that inversion is going on in our culture and our

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Speaker 3: political culture right now.

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Speaker 2: The question also is where does this go?

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Speaker 1: Right, Like, you have this Republican Party that's fractured, Is

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Speaker 1: it two parties?

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Speaker 2: Is it no party? You have nihilis? Who have? You know?

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Speaker 1: Trump is going to be the nominee. It looks like

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Speaker 1: that it's inevitable. There's going to be a reckoning, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, when does his reckoning happen?

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Speaker 3: Well, the political reckoning, I think is going to start

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Speaker 3: for anybody who's not on board with the President's position

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Speaker 3: right now, which is by the way, as far to

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Speaker 3: the right as humanly imaginable on Hamas and those who

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Speaker 3: are engaging in terrorism, and is also about sending one

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Speaker 3: hundred million dollars of humanitarian aid to legitimate Palestinian relief

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Speaker 3: efforts right outside of their control. But you're also going

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Speaker 3: to see if the hostage story continues to develop, and

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Speaker 3: we don't know the terrain of it yet, and the

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Speaker 3: fact that we don't hear anything about it means there's

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Speaker 3: something bigger than we're hearing about. I don't want to

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Speaker 3: sound like Alex Jones just now, but that's sort of

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Speaker 3: my experience.

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Speaker 1: From what I've understood too the weeks.

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Speaker 2: In Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: The reason that we're not hearing so much about that

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Speaker 1: is because there is actually something going on there, and

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Speaker 1: people's lives are in jeopardy.

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Speaker 3: The political reckoning of this or the edge case and

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Speaker 3: the Democratic Party right now, the Rashida ta Leaves and

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Speaker 3: the small fraction. I mean, look, you could put these

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Speaker 3: people around a table at a restaurant, but if you

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Speaker 3: want to pro putin caucus in the Republican House, you'd

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Speaker 3: have to get a dining hall.

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Speaker 4: You have to have a big room.

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Speaker 3: So the political reckoning of whether American voters want strength

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Speaker 3: and stability over chaos and the spectacle of the Trumpian

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Speaker 3: style foreign policy, they're going to answer with strength and

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Speaker 3: stability every time.

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Speaker 1: We got breaking news here, which by Monday will be broken.

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Speaker 2: The cheese no longer stands alone Cheesebro, Cheesebro.

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Speaker 1: It's Chesbro, but we call him Cheesebro because we love.

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Speaker 2: Cheese and cheese.

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Speaker 4: I love cheese.

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Speaker 2: It's so good. So Cheesebro has taken the plea. Bro

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Speaker 2: Jesse is like laughing to keep from crying.

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Speaker 4: About these people.

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Speaker 3: These people are so deeply in the shit that it

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Speaker 3: is the It is one of the greatest proof cases

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Speaker 3: of my political philosophy of everything Trump touches dies.

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Speaker 4: Here's the other part of it. They're all dangling.

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Speaker 3: Trump held them all out to dry, and these cases

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Speaker 3: that that they're all fighting. They probably needed a couple

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Speaker 3: hundred grand each to like get a mountain actual defense.

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Speaker 3: But of course Trump had to repaint his plane and

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Speaker 3: needs a new like Golden Bidet or mar Lago or something.

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Speaker 3: And the idea that he left them hanging out to

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Speaker 3: dry was was so on brand for Trump. You've got

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Speaker 3: you know, Rudy shuffling around like selling cameo appearances now

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Speaker 3: to try to cover his two million dollars of legal bills.

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Speaker 3: Of course this is what was going to happen. And

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Speaker 3: of course these little bitches are gonna flip. Do you

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Speaker 3: think Kim Cheeseburrow could do a minute in the joint?

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Speaker 3: That guy would be bait on the first day. He'd

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Speaker 3: be in the infirmary the second he got there. These

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Speaker 3: are not strong people. They are not tough people.

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Speaker 2: Poor cheese brow. You've got Sydney Powell giving her.

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Speaker 3: Appearing now at the Leopard Lounge at the time in

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Speaker 3: the room, it's stay shady, Sydney Poll.

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Speaker 4: One lap dance from her and your life will change.

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Speaker 2: For Jesus Christ, you know she's seventy years old.

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Speaker 4: Okay, she's sixty ye, I'm not agist.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, but she can drink her diet doctor peppers

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Speaker 1: in freedom because she's not she's not.

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Speaker 4: Working the pole, because easy, as.

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Speaker 2: A feminist, I'm going to cut you off right there.

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Speaker 2: She's not working the pole, and we're out.

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Speaker 4: She's got legal bills today, we're out.

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Speaker 1: So use let the record show I did not laugh

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Speaker 1: at any joke I followed.

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Speaker 2: She was working the pole.

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Speaker 1: Dave Wigel is a political reporter at Semaphore.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 5: Dave, thank you going to be here.

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Speaker 1: Great to have you so talk to us about a

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Speaker 1: campaign filing.

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Speaker 2: Finance Filing is FEC week. What did you.

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Speaker 6: Learn, Well, it was kind of following a pattern we've

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Speaker 6: seen all year. Just voters donators are not as engaged

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Speaker 6: in this race, the race for president, the House races

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Speaker 6: as they've been the last few cycles. I think that's

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Speaker 6: still interesting and there's not a one unifying reason why.

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Speaker 6: Because yes, there people have a little bit less disposable

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Speaker 6: income than they did maybe ten years ago, but comparable

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Speaker 6: to what they did four years ago. You have in

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Speaker 6: the presidential race just Republicans who are not know from

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Speaker 6: raising fairly little money, holding on to less than a

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Speaker 6: lot of Democrats had this point four years ago. And

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Speaker 6: in the House races, you have in the front line

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Speaker 6: of the Republican conference, like the people who were the

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Speaker 6: most jammed by what's happening right now with the speaker vote,

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Speaker 6: you have those people raising pretty good money. They're not

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Speaker 6: really being outraised, but nobody's having these blockbuster five million

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Speaker 6: dollar quarters that we've used to see, except for Senate

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Speaker 6: Democrats are doing quite well. I think maybe if there's

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Speaker 6: one theme here, it's that this transition we've seen over

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Speaker 6: the last few years of college educated voters who might

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Speaker 6: have been Republican are not very engaged before Trump, They're

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Speaker 6: very engaged. They're very amenable to throwing one hundred bucks

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Speaker 6: to a Senate camp if they think that's the way

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Speaker 6: to stop Donald Trump Mitch McConnel from taking over again.

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Speaker 2: Is this just like.

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Speaker 1: Pre election malaise or is this something larger.

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Speaker 6: In in a Republican race. I think it is. Malay's absolutely

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Speaker 6: Replican presidential race. Donald Trump is winning, has been winning.

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Speaker 6: Nobody has has lit a fighter under small donors as

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Speaker 6: an alternative Trump, nobody has his draw to your grassroots

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Speaker 6: Republican donor. Those people really were willed into existence by

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump, and not just his twenty sixteen campaign, but

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Speaker 6: really twenty twenty. He was the best fundraiser in Republican history.

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Speaker 6: He has raised money and this was note at the time,

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Speaker 6: but then you confirmed it with the empty reports. You

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Speaker 6: raised seventy million dollars in the days after his Georgia mugshot.

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Speaker 6: Everything we've seen that seems to benefit Donald Trump with

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Speaker 6: Republican primary voters shows up in these finance reports that

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Speaker 6: it's the base that gives money. Dill sees this as

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Speaker 6: Donald Trump primary to lose, that he was denied the

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Speaker 6: presidency unfairly last time, and that anything that slows him

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Speaker 6: down they need to come on and help them for

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Speaker 6: with these other cadets. So Nicki Haley raised a bit

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Speaker 6: more money, but it's comparable really to what Andrew Yang

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Speaker 6: raised at this point four years ago. And I'm not

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Speaker 6: trying to diminish Yang or diminish her, just this is

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Speaker 6: a candid who's gotten a good amount of media attention,

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Speaker 6: is getting the kind of crowds, and I've been in

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Speaker 6: some where Republican voters who really don't want Trump back

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Speaker 6: or excited about her. It's done her pretty well, but

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Speaker 6: nothing like the Biden alternatives did four years ago.

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Speaker 5: Same thing with DeSantis. I mean, DeSantis's numbers were much worse.

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Speaker 6: The campaign tried to get ahead out of them and

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Speaker 6: spend that he raised a record breaking some They really

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Speaker 6: had to search around for a way to hype about

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Speaker 6: a little bit less than twelve million dollars. Because he

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Speaker 6: raised twenty million dollars his first his first weeks in

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Speaker 6: the race. He clearly has been fading, the report suggests. Yes, indeed,

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Speaker 6: he's fading. There's not a lot of vnors around the

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Speaker 6: country who were so excited about him that they're kipping

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Speaker 6: in to help him because they just think that this

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Speaker 6: race is effectively decided already.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting though he did raise a ton of money.

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Speaker 1: This is common, you know, the excitement of the candidate

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Speaker 1: doesn't match the candidate to actual you know, when you

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Speaker 1: get them in the ring. But Nikki Haley sort of

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Speaker 1: had the opposite. But it just was she just couldn't

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Speaker 1: stand up against Trump.

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Speaker 6: Yes, and she's not trying to so. Hailey, I think

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Speaker 6: has run the sort of campaign that usually, if not

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Speaker 6: prevails last she has run a very careful campaign. A

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Speaker 6: few of her key issues. She has the foreign policy experience,

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Speaker 6: for you, an ambassador that she leans on again not

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Speaker 6: trying to be too negative. But that led to her

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Speaker 6: last week saying that she was trying to worry the

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Speaker 6: world about Hamasa's threat to Israel. And I saw her

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Speaker 6: then said, I feel like a lot of people knew

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Speaker 6: that Amas both the first Israel, but okay, we'll take it.

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Speaker 6: She's not done a ton of media. That's risky.

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Speaker 5: She's quite good at doing.

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Speaker 6: Your Jake Tapper interview whatever, but she's not stuck her

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Speaker 6: knock out as much. Her events have been pretty well controlled.

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Speaker 6: She doesn't take questions from quarters after events, and she's

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Speaker 6: impressed big donors who really frittered away the year thinking

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Speaker 6: that Ron DeSantis rather was going to be the Trump alternative,

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Speaker 6: and it isn't. I mean, one thing you saw at

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Speaker 6: Santa's fundraising too, is that not just a gap in

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Speaker 6: what he raised from quarter to quarter that he raised

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Speaker 6: less money, but he had a ton of supporters in

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Speaker 6: the first quarter in the second who maxed out and

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Speaker 6: they're done and they can't give to him unless he

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Speaker 6: makes it to the general election. He also has been

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Speaker 6: and this is a common trick, they've been raising money

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Speaker 6: for the general election, which you just have to even

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Speaker 6: keep it if you don't make it there. But it's

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Speaker 6: not you can't use it in the primary. And one

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Speaker 6: thing we don't know yet because super PACs reporting on

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Speaker 6: a different timeline, is he had through this transfer of

441
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,480
Speaker 6: wealth from his state pack to never back down the

442
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 6: super Pac something that has been in the past illegal,

443
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 6: but the FEC just doesn't care anymore. He had ondred

444
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 6: million dollars in that pack that's been spent down to

445
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:47,399
Speaker 6: some extent.

446
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:48,440
Speaker 5: We don't know how much.

447
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,639
Speaker 1: One of the other things that was pretty amazing about

448
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: DeSantis World was he spent an abnormal amount of money

449
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: on private jets.

450
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 6: Right, Yeah, that showed up again. He cut back a

451
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 6: little bit. I mean he was wasting money. He also

452
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 6: has been using and for them need to report this

453
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 6: the same way being using state resources to travel. I

454
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 6: mean you'll see his answer in the road and he'll

455
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 6: have farda police ieu control something that his campaign I

456
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 6: shouldn't say his campaign as governor, he signed a law

457
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 6: protecting these records from Foyer. I mean, the only reason

458
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 6: you can find out sometimes how much money was spent

459
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 6: on his security paid for by taxpayers, is they'll get

460
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 6: in a car crash and then we'll find out for

461
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 6: the police who was with him. So he has been

462
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 6: slightly more frugal. He's not been doing quite as many

463
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,280
Speaker 6: of these these flights. The problem is just the intake.

464
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 6: He brought in less money than he needed. The lesson

465
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 6: he was spending and none of the investments have paid off.

466
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 6: So their campaign, Remember, has this bifurcated structure, that is

467
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:49,679
Speaker 6: the DeSantis campaign running his travel, the basics of what

468
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 6: he needs to do to get around the country, not

469
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 6: really any advertising. The field work, like the offices, the volunteers,

470
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 6: people going door to door, that's all the super pack.

471
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 6: He was wasting money with the confidence that the super

472
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 6: Pac was going to be funding the ground game. It

473
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 6: still is, but there are mixed results so far from

474
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 6: that super Pac investment. Most notably they were organizing in Texas,

475
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,120
Speaker 6: which has a later primary, which won't matter unless he

476
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 6: wins Iowa or comes close and they pull out of that.

477
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 6: I mean, they were definitely blowing a lot of money

478
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:19,960
Speaker 6: on stuff that just didn't matter.

479
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's super interesting, but at the end of the day,

480
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,879
Speaker 1: the chances of someone not being Donald Trump as the

481
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,160
Speaker 1: Republican nominees seemed pretty low.

482
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 5: Right.

483
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 6: Yeah, you're not seeing interest from small donors in replacing him,

484
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 6: and you're not seeing in polling or in excitement from

485
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,199
Speaker 6: voters local officials idea that he should be replaced. The

486
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 6: premis for a lot of these donors, small and big.

487
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,359
Speaker 6: Was we need somebody more electable than Donald Trump. Two

488
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 6: things that benefited Trump. One is that polling has shown

489
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 6: he's doing fine. I mean, he's doing better than he

490
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 6: did in head to head polling against Biden at this point,

491
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 6: well not at this point, but in the general election

492
00:23:59,320 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 6: twenty twenty.

493
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 5: Just is he winning.

494
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 6: That's hard to say, but he was down sometimes double

495
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 6: digits in swing state polls and then he did much

496
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 6: better on election day. If you're a Republican voter, you

497
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 6: look at the current polling and says, okay, Biden is

498
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 6: tied with Trump. Biden is one point down on one

499
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 6: point up. I'm not worried about Trump. Trump can beat him.

500
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,719
Speaker 6: You also have Ron de Santis for everything he's done

501
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 6: in his campaign, becoming really unpopular, just scanning as a

502
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 6: right wing guy and people don't want to who swing

503
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,359
Speaker 6: voters don't like, and he does worse. Mean, Dickie Hailey

504
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 6: does a couple of points better, the Santa Suss a

505
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 6: couple of points worse. If you're the kind of voter

506
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 6: and donor who cares about that, it's just atch you're

507
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 6: not in a panic to get rid of Trump. And

508
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 6: this really mattered in twenty sixteen not enough to beat Trump,

509
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 6: but polling was really divergent. Polling would find from losing

510
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,120
Speaker 6: states by six seven points that if you ask voters

511
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 6: about a Rubio Hillary race or a Casic Hillary race,

512
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,359
Speaker 6: that they were winning and there's just not the gap.

513
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 6: Now you have the entire Republican apparatus saying that Trump

514
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,360
Speaker 6: is innocent, and you have polling saying that Trump and win.

515
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 5: So what's left if you want to beat the guy? Right?

516
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 2: Exactly?

517
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 1: So pull this back from me for a second, try

518
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: to like make it make sense.

519
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 4: Does this mean.

520
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,520
Speaker 1: That Trump is powerful in the party but trump Ism

521
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: is not? Does it not scale? Is that sort of

522
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,439
Speaker 1: what you extrapolate from this, or does it mean that

523
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,200
Speaker 1: it's just Trump just has such a hold that nothing

524
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: else matters.

525
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: I mean, is there more to pull from.

526
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 6: This, depending on you to find Trump is. I think

527
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 6: it suggests that it is locked into the party. Stepping

528
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 6: away from the fundraising. The most interesting fight happening this

529
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 6: week among the other candidates has been Rhonda Santis saying

530
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 6: he won't take any refugees from Gaza. No aid to Gaza,

531
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,720
Speaker 6: no aid to the Palestinians. Two things about that One

532
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 6: no one was suggesting it, so it's not actually happening.

533
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 6: It's nothing to propose the refugee part of it. Two,

534
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 6: everyone's agreed with him, and everyone has taken basically the

535
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 6: position on both aid to Palestinians and on refugees that

536
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 6: Donald Trump took in the twenty sixteen campaign. So the

537
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 6: all parties moved along with him in significant ways. If

538
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 6: you had this delinea the differences between Trump's alternatives and Trump,

539
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 6: and you set aside electability, it's that Desantas says he

540
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 6: can do what Trump promises, but more efficiently. It's that

541
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 6: Haley would defend and continue to fund Ukraine's defense and

542
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 6: Trump would not. You have every candidate saying they would

543
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 6: cut spending all the Trump says that too, in same.

544
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 5: Me he said at twenty sixteen. But there's not that

545
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 5: many differences. Yeah, right.

546
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: Had this been a normal cycle and Desanta's not been

547
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: a complete like you know, non end today when you

548
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: got him on the stomp, he would have been the

549
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,600
Speaker 1: heir of trump Ism, and that has not happened. So

550
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: has that not happened because trump Ism dies with Trump?

551
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: Or has it not happened because DeSantis.

552
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 6: Was just so bad at this It's really the existential

553
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 6: question this race. Could someone have beaten Trump? Did desantisis

554
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 6: do a poor job? I lean more toward Trump having

555
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 6: such a hammer lock on Republican voters that no one

556
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,120
Speaker 6: was in a position to beat him. I do think

557
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 6: the defining moment, rarely on was the first indictment, Alvin

558
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 6: braggt indictment in New York. The response of every Republican

559
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 6: candidate was to get ahead of it and condemned except

560
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 6: Arissa Hutchinson, who is barely in the race, you know,

561
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 6: locked out of the debates at this point, every other

562
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 6: Republican condemned it. DeSantis actually, who wasn't running yet, offered

563
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 6: him ambitsty in Florida Saint Jury and Florida, but he

564
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 6: wouldn't extradite and be or can take this. And I

565
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 6: think Trump, who has a just a better political radar

566
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 6: than this, I think DeSantis has a better radar for

567
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 6: what conservatives care about. Trump has a better political radar period.

568
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 6: Trump plain and Trump started to benefit from from the

569
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 6: idea that he was so powerful that he was being

570
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 6: brought down legally. Because this is the meta argument about

571
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 6: all these Trump indictments, is not even that he is

572
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 6: innocent it's that he's innocent and the only way Democrats

573
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 6: can beat him is by dragging him down with lawsuits.

574
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 6: That's hard to unstick. Once you will become convinced that

575
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 6: there's one candidate is being dragged down by the legal

576
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 6: system because Democrats can't beat him fair and square, even

577
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 6: though they did that three years ago. Once the other

578
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 6: guy's argument, it's like, well, I can also win and

579
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 6: nobody hates me as much as they hate Trump. Well,

580
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 6: maybe they don't hate you because they think you're a loser.

581
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 6: This is a thing that's haunted the Santis, especially those

582
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 6: polls came out just Trump and Democrats are in harmony

583
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 6: on DeSantis, or they just kind of make fun of

584
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 6: him as this gormalous charismalists drip and how many times

585
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 6: do we elect to a drip of no charisma?

586
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 5: Not often. Maybe there's somebody in like the eighteen forties.

587
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 5: I'm less familiar with it.

588
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 6: Millard Shillmore not the most charismatic, although he went on

589
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 6: is out good point, but that I think has overwhelmed

590
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 6: it any other arguments they can make about it. So, yes,

591
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 6: it didn't help that Dysantis was pretty bad at this.

592
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 4: I mean the pulling.

593
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 6: I would I would pay attention to public and private

594
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 6: was favorability of Trump, which was very high, hiring these

595
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 6: other candidates, which dipped a little after the midterms, came

596
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 6: right back and confidence that his electability and that just

597
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 6: that didn't change. So what was going to happen. Who

598
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 6: was going to come in and change that dynamic? If

599
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 6: there was a candidate who was leading Joe Biden by

600
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 6: twenty points, could that change things? Perhaps none of them

601
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 6: exists to know when that popular exists in American politics

602
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 6: right now, So they never had that fight.

603
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: So now we have Trump has all these court appearances.

604
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: It seems like he's using these court appearances, I mean

605
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: not all of them, but he's certainly taking questions and speechifying,

606
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,120
Speaker 1: right he is after.

607
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 2: Each earing, So I don't know if he's taken questions,

608
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: but he.

609
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 5: Certainly says yeah.

610
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: It's sort of interesting if you think about other politicians

611
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: who are in legal jeopardy, like think about Menendez, right,

612
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: there's no like, you know, grand standing afterwards. I mean,

613
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: this is so it's a pretty counterintuitive thing to do.

614
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 2: As a politician.

615
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: Though as Trump, remember it doesn't matter, I mean counterintuitive.

616
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: He just does whatever the fuck he wants. But do

617
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 1: you think this works? I mean, do you think that

618
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: this is sort of the you know, if you're Trump,

619
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,719
Speaker 1: you can just use this as a campaign rally.

620
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 5: Yes, he has been doing that.

621
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 6: You don't need to convince most Republican voters any further

622
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 6: than what he did with was so objectionable. As the

623
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 6: Republican voters are there several million people who used to

624
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 6: be Republican who aren't anymore because of this stuff. There

625
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 6: are they're just not voting in the primary. There's a

626
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 6: very good piece by Natalie Allison and Lusa Koshinski in

627
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 6: Politico this week that captured what a lot of us

628
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 6: who are on the trail that's seen, which is that

629
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 6: Trump does not have to campaign that much and his

630
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 6: opponents are out hustling him by just by default. They're

631
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:23,800
Speaker 6: showing up more than he is because he's not showing

632
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 6: up that much. But it's not like previous cycles were

633
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 6: like a and I was there with Pete Buddah Judge,

634
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 6: where Peja Jesu was just endlessly in Iowa, going to

635
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 6: every town, doing every county.

636
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 5: DeSantis has done some.

637
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 6: Of that to Mitch results, but he's the only one

638
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 6: I think by the end of this primary, DeSantis, maybe

639
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 6: Mike Pence, because he's put everything into Iowa, that'll be

640
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 6: the only guys who do the ninety nine county Iowa tour.

641
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 6: But beyond that, they're just not spending as much time

642
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 6: as previous candidates did there.

643
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 5: So this flows from Trump. Trump does not need to

644
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 5: be there.

645
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 6: He can have a press conference that gets just as

646
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 6: much attention outside of courtroom.

647
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 5: What did you get that day?

648
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 6: If you organized rallies, flew your candidate out there, took

649
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 6: a bunch of hands, took a bunch of photos, you

650
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 6: got some caucus sign ups. Incrementally you're adding to it,

651
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 6: But what earned me did you get?

652
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 5: Often? Zero off?

653
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 6: You're not getting any media pickup. You know, thank you

654
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 6: for everyone who reads me. He reads blow of reporters

655
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 6: every day. But for the average, the average voter, it's

656
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 6: very clear they're bringing little attention to what these candidates

657
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,600
Speaker 6: are doing. And stepping back from all this, the thought

658
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 6: a lot of these guys had is, well, one question

659
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 6: you get asked is why are these guys run against Trump?

660
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 5: How can they win?

661
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 6: The answer that the campaigns would kind of say quietly

662
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 6: but not broadcast, was well, we don't know what's going

663
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 6: to happen if he's indicted, and if it looks if

664
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 6: Republican voters look at this guy and think he's going

665
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 6: to jail, will they be more up in minded the

666
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 6: answer has been, or they won't. They will stick more

667
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 6: to him more closely. So what's left? And once people

668
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 6: tell you what their silver bullet is and then the

669
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,920
Speaker 6: silver bullet just pumps and flattens on the wall. Okay,

670
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 6: what do you have left? Like, what is the next

671
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 6: plan for beating this guy? They don't have a convincing one,

672
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,239
Speaker 6: And I think you're still worth covering because the way

673
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 6: that they're running their campaigns. But nobody has figured out

674
00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 6: a way to beat him. Nobody has figured out a

675
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 6: way to excite small donors, which was something that Bernie

676
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 6: Sanders could do previously, andre Yanne could do.

677
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 5: They're not doing it.

678
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 6: Nikki Haley and Rod DeSantis raised more than your average

679
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 6: senate candidate does, and that's it.

680
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 5: The other candidates.

681
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 6: Really, we're kind of up there with the guy running

682
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 6: for Senate Montana and how much the money they're raising.

683
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 6: They have just not lit Republicans on fire around the country.

684
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: It's just such a crazy situation two seconds on RFK Junior.

685
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: RFK Junior was thought to be.

686
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: The sort of magic bullet against Biden and supported by

687
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,719
Speaker 1: Steve Bannon, and now it's possible that he may actually

688
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: be the magic bullet against Trump.

689
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: Can you explain if.

690
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 6: You look at who's funded his campaign, especially his super pac,

691
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 6: which is again doesn't have to report for a little while.

692
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 5: We're going to know more about the super back in January.

693
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: Frankly right, But there's a Harlan Crowe connection.

694
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 6: Yes, well around crow is a Cornell West. But when

695
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 6: Kennedy got into the race, I think there are people

696
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 6: who sincerely agree with him, and there are a lot

697
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 6: of people who's cynically and Steve and I think both

698
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 6: agree with him and cynically wanted to use him for

699
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 6: this thought. This will be a problem for Joe Biden

700
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 6: because he could lose these first two primary estates Iowa

701
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,320
Speaker 6: and New Hampshire. They're going to hold contests. He won't

702
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 6: be on the ballot. It would be embarrassing to him

703
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 6: if Kennedy pulls this. For a number of reasons, Kennedy

704
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 6: and his campaign convince themselves that they were not dealing

705
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 6: ground because the primary was rigged. They had this gambit,

706
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 6: they left the party, and that was just less knowable.

707
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 6: A gadfly primary opponent making forcing Biden to embarrass himself

708
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 6: in an early state was one thing Independent Canada as

709
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 6: an X factor and in polling. It's so I've seen

710
00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 6: all sorts of pulling on this. I've seen nothing that

711
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 6: says that Kennedy disproportionately pulls from Biden. I have seen

712
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 6: stuff that says it's about even and stuff that he

713
00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 6: pulls disproportionately from Trumps. He's very attractive relatively to voters

714
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 6: under thirty five, who by every measure, just don't like politics,

715
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 6: don't trust politicians. That is a cohort that was more

716
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 6: interested voting for Trump or Martinkey voted for Kennedy down.

717
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 5: So you've seen in the last week it's not definitive.

718
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 6: Last two weeks since he announced, Kennedy did one Fox

719
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 6: and for his interview, and he had a very hostile

720
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 6: Sean Handy interview, and he kind of disappeared from conservative media.

721
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,839
Speaker 6: He has not had the same pickup in conservative media

722
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 6: that he used to. I think there's several reasons for that,

723
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 6: but it's also if it was just a news value

724
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 6: news judgment thing.

725
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,799
Speaker 5: Kennedy is very pro Israel.

726
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 6: Kennedy could be your guest attacking the left for not

727
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 6: being part of enough of Israel's government. He's not, He's

728
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 6: just fallen off the map a little bit. I think

729
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 6: that is to tell that conservatives say this X factor

730
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 6: at the moment is not helpful because Trump could win

731
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 6: one on one against Biden.

732
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 5: What is the point of throwing uncertainty into this mix?

733
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: So interesting? Thank you so much, Dave. Really super fascinating.

734
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 5: Oh it was awesome. Thank you for talking with me.

735
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 1: Nick Corusantini covers domestic politics.

736
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 2: For The New York Times. Welcome too Fast.

737
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 1: Politics, Nick, Thanks for having me. So you wrote this

738
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: piece about Mississippi. It's funny because as the first person

739
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,760
Speaker 1: to talk to us about Mississippi was James Carmel, who said,

740
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: you know, don't sleep on Mississippi. This was maybe six

741
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: months ago. So when I saw your ps, he didn't

742
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 1: explain to me the very interesting underlying state legislatives struggle

743
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: that is.

744
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: Going on behind the scenes. And I read your piece

745
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: and I still don't.

746
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: Completely understand the interesting legislative struggles that are going on

747
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: behind the scenes in Mississippi. So can you explain to

748
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,279
Speaker 1: us what is going on in Mississippi.

749
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 6: Absolutely, we'll take a step back, We'll go all the

750
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 6: way to eighteen ninety. So in eighteen ninety, at a

751
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 6: constitutional convention by Mississippi Jim Crow era law was created

752
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 6: literally with the phrase to secure the state of Mississippi

753
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 6: white supremacy. And what they did, wow, was for any

754
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 6: statewide elected official at the state level, so that's your

755
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 6: governors and your attorney's general, you had to not only

756
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 6: win the popular vote, but you had to win the

757
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 6: majority of the vote in the one hundred and twenty

758
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 6: twenty two state legislative districts for the state House. So

759
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 6: it's basically an electoral college built for state elections within Mississippi. Now,

760
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 6: the way that racial shorting has happened in Mississippi is,

761
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 6: you know, black populations were much more densely populated into

762
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 6: single districts. So by creating this electoral college aesque system,

763
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 6: it drastically weakened the power of black voters in Mississippi.

764
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 6: Now that law was on the books until twenty twenty.

765
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 6: So this is going to be the first governor's race

766
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 6: in Mississippi history where that law will no longer be

767
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 6: on the books, so it's just a normal popular vote

768
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 6: election in Mississippi.

769
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,640
Speaker 1: So how did that law affect elections?

770
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 6: So it's kind of tough to say, just due to

771
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 6: you know, kind of how a Mississippi is a deeply

772
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,360
Speaker 6: read state. B you don't really know the kind of

773
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 6: psychological impact that has over decades on certain communities where

774
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 6: you feel like you're putting in all the effort to

775
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 6: turn out the vote, your community comes out to vote

776
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 6: and you're still getting be by fifteen to twenty percent.

777
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 6: So it's kind of hard to say. There have been

778
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 6: close elections. You know, Jim Hood only lost by I

779
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:07,280
Speaker 6: think it was like six percent. He was a Democratic

780
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:09,600
Speaker 6: nominee a few years ago. So there have been close

781
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 6: elections for governor and Mississippi recently, but it's tough to

782
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 6: tell exactly how that has come into play, you down

783
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 6: to say like a precinct or district or anything like that.

784
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 1: Right, So this will be the first election without that exactly.

785
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 5: And this is a very interesting election.

786
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,319
Speaker 6: We have a uniquely unpopular Republican incumbent in Tate Reed, Yes,

787
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 6: who's been plagued vice scandals.

788
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: I know there have been a lot of Tate reed scandals,

789
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: but give us the TLDR on like your favor two.

790
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,319
Speaker 1: I know you're not on the opinion side. So two

791
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: of them that you know of.

792
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 6: One involves this kind of spiraling scandal with Brett farb

793
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 6: the former NFL quarterback, and basically taking money from welfare

794
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,240
Speaker 6: institutions and other kind of social safety at things within

795
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 6: Mississippi and giving it to a pet project of Brett

796
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 6: Farven his wife. Not one hundred percent positive on the

797
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 6: specifics of what it went to. I've heard it was

798
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 6: a volleyball court, or it was some sports or athletic facility,

799
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,480
Speaker 6: but basically it was taking from Mississippi's very strapped welfare

800
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 6: apparatus and moving it to places that wasn't necessary.

801
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,919
Speaker 2: It was like crony capitalism.

802
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

803
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,320
Speaker 6: And so you layer in a you know, famous face

804
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 6: who you know, got a lot of media attention brought

805
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,479
Speaker 6: on ESPN and everything to cover the Brett fav angle.

806
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 6: So this scandal's very well known. When you couple that

807
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 6: with a very very unpopular policy stance Tate Reeves has taken,

808
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 6: which is against medicaid expansion kind of solely on his

809
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 6: you know, personal political beliefs that it's the wrong policy.

810
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 6: This is exceptionally popular in poorer states, especially in Mississippi.

811
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 6: It polls at like seventy five twenty five that was

812
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 6: in favor of expansion. So he's already angered a lot

813
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 6: of voters on that policy. And then you bring in

814
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 6: this scandal, which is one of a few that have

815
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 6: kind of, you know, really tarnished his first few years here,

816
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 6: and you have a uniquely unpopular incumbent that, despite this

817
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,240
Speaker 6: being a deeply read state, you know, could be in trouble.

818
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 6: Then as a challenger emerges, it's Brandon Presley, who's from

819
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 6: the northeastern part of the state, which used to be

820
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 6: a kind of traditional moderate Democrat stronghold that's solely eroded

821
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 6: as the state's scotten better. So he's an interesting Democrat

822
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 6: from that area. And he's also Elvis Presley's second cousin,

823
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 6: so instantly there's some name identification.

824
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: He's a big celebrity, but.

825
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,200
Speaker 6: He's an experienced politician. You know, he's been running for

826
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 6: the Public Service Commission and serving on it for years.

827
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 6: He's not necessarily raw by any means. He's a build

828
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 6: on the stump, knows how to campaign, so Reeves drew

829
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 6: a pretty tough challenger at a point where he's at,

830
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 6: you know, maybe his most vulnerable politically. And then layered

831
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 6: on top of that are these changes in how the

832
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 6: state elects its governor. In a state with the biggest

833
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 6: black voting age population in the entire country, it's about

834
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 6: forty percent of the state, you know, that could be

835
00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 6: newly energized or at least feel you know, a little

836
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 6: bit more free, and then the vote has more power

837
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,640
Speaker 6: than it used to with these new rules.

838
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is technically right, So white non Hispanics in

839
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: Mississippi are about fifty six percent of the state, right,

840
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: so it really is a state where the black vote

841
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: can actually, if enfranchised, if able to vote, can really

842
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: decide their representation. And to think about the people that

843
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,799
Speaker 1: these Southern states have sent to the Senate and to Congress,

844
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 1: they have not been people who really were standing up

845
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: for black voters.

846
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 6: No at allowed part that's also just due to the

847
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 6: extreme dreamandering in a lot of these Southern states, right

848
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,799
Speaker 6: like the only Mississippi, despite having such a large black

849
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 6: lining age population, only has one black representative in Benny Thompson,

850
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 6: who also came out very early, which can done recently

851
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 6: and endorsed Presley like Bright when his campaign was starting.

852
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,040
Speaker 6: But there is an interesting thing that Charles Taylor, who's

853
00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 6: the director of the local chapter of the end of

854
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 6: ACP in Mississippi, told me, which is that despite at

855
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 6: the state level and congressional level not having significant representation

856
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 6: in terms of black elected officials, Mississippi actually has a

857
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 6: very high number, if not the highest number of total

858
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 6: black elected officials in the country. And that includes you know,

859
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 6: town councils, school boards, district attorneys, a lot of local races.

860
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 6: There is actually a lot of black elected officials in

861
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 6: those positions in Mississippi. Charles said that it was about

862
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 6: twelve to fifteen percent of the national number of black

863
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 6: elected officials come from Mississippi, which is just one percent

864
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 6: of the national population. So there is this, you know,

865
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 6: pretty significant number of local black elected officials that I

866
00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 6: think people like Charles Taylor and then some Democrats are

867
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 6: also hoping, you know, it's a sign that there is

868
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 6: this strength there. And when you remove the Jim Crow

869
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 6: era burdens of this fall electoral college thing, you might

870
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,200
Speaker 6: actually be surprised by how the how the vote turns out.

871
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 1: It's so strange because it's like, if you think about

872
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: how these black voters have really had their vote stolen

873
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: from them for such a long time. So what we're

874
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 1: seeing in Virginia as a certain amount of like hanky

875
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:11,360
Speaker 1: panky with the voter rolls not completely.

876
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:12,919
Speaker 2: To be shocked by.

877
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 1: I guess there is a real anxiety at least on

878
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: my part. These Republicans tend to really fight anything. I mean,

879
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 1: you have Republican state parties in Alabama fighting the Supreme Court.

880
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, these people do not go quietly.

881
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,920
Speaker 1: So is there some worry on the state level that

882
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 1: maybe Tate Reeves will do whatever is necessary to stay

883
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 1: in office.

884
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 6: I haven't heard any kind of January sixth level fears that,

885
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 6: so I would just say I didn't lose and you know,

886
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 6: refuse to leave. But to your point about, you know,

887
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 6: consistently fighting voting access, there has been a pretty significant

888
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 6: change that's put a significant amount of black voters kind

889
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 6: of in limbo right now. And that's a few years ago.

890
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 6: Mississippi had, back to that eighteen ninety convention, one of

891
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:02,600
Speaker 6: the most strident bands of formally convicted felons regaining their rights.

892
00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 6: They were automatically lost their rights for life, and so

893
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 6: that was overturned by the Fifth Circuit, and so that

894
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 6: would have given about one in six black adults in Mississippi.

895
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 5: They're voting rights back.

896
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,720
Speaker 6: Now Mississippi instantly appealed, sued, and the initial decision was vacated,

897
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 6: and now it's on appeal.

898
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 5: So it's completely hung up in limbo.

899
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 6: A lot of voting rights groups and black leaders in

900
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 6: the state, you know, are kind of not sure exactly

901
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 6: what voters should do. So their guidance has just been like,

902
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 6: you know, don't test the system, don't go get arrested.

903
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 6: So that's certainly something that could have a chilling effect.

904
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 6: We haven't seen any evidence of the kind of more

905
00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,640
Speaker 6: recent playbook of conservative groups looking under the banner of

906
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 6: election integrity for fraud or things like that yet, but

907
00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 6: that doesn't mean it's not happening.

908
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 5: I just you know, haven't personally seen.

909
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,000
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just very complicated and all these state

910
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: laws are different depending on the state. The phenomenon that

911
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,840
Speaker 1: I think is pretty interesting that I'm always sort of

912
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 1: struck by is there are a lot of these red

913
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: states that end.

914
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: Up electing blue governors.

915
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,160
Speaker 1: Right, we just had someone on talking about how unfortunately

916
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: John Bell Edwards was term limit but this is actually

917
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: kind of not a completely unusual phenomenon.

918
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 2: Will you talk about that for a minute.

919
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, there's numerous examples of this kind of you know,

920
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 6: across the South. Right now, you have Andy Basheer, who's

921
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 6: up for re election in Kentucky, that's as deep a

922
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 6: red state as you can get. You have a democratic

923
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 6: governor in charge. Their same holds true in Kansas, one

924
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 6: of the red estates that there's a democratic governor there,

925
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 6: And it varies, as you were saying earlier, on the

926
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,960
Speaker 6: state by state basis as to the reason. I think

927
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 6: one of the reasons that John Bell Edwards was able

928
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 6: to remain so popular was he was a Democrat, but

929
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 6: he was also very pro gun, pro Second Amendment, you know,

930
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,880
Speaker 6: fought any attempts to restrict it. What sets Brandon Pressley

931
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 6: apart right now for national Democrats is he's pro life

932
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 6: and is in favor I guess of the state's current

933
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:57,959
Speaker 6: you know, abortion laws. So a lot of these blue governors,

934
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:03,480
Speaker 6: you know, have found tailored messages different from national Democratic platforms,

935
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 6: that appeal to the voters in their state. And then

936
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 6: it often comes down to more pragmatic local issues, and

937
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 6: I think the biggest one in Mississippi right now is

938
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 6: what we're just talking about with Medicaid expansion. The biggest

939
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 6: concern amongst all voters is Medicaid expansion, and among so

940
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 6: many black voters in the rural South is rural hospital access.

941
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,359
Speaker 6: So if you have a governor who's not talking about

942
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,840
Speaker 6: that and not necessarily doing as much at least service

943
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 6: level that they can see to address it, and you

944
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 6: have this candidate who's coming on and saying I will

945
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 6: bring back you know, two one hundred and fifty million instantly,

946
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 6: we can address the royal hospital crisis. I'm going to

947
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 6: keep asking for more. The parties start to fade away

948
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 6: and the instant needs of a state or of a

949
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 6: voter takeover. And you've seen that, and you know select states.

950
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 6: There also has been you know, somewhat of a democratic

951
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 6: resurgence across the South. You know, Georgia, I think is

952
00:45:56,480 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 6: the is the first and most specific example, but there

953
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:04,080
Speaker 6: have been small gains felt I think kind of across

954
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 6: the South. You know, a lot of leaders in Mississippi

955
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 6: don't feel like they're nearly at Georgia's level. Right, there's

956
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,360
Speaker 6: a lot of other things beyond just simply getting a

957
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 6: black voting its population engaged. You had a bunch of wealthier,

958
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 6: college educated white people voting moving into Atlanta and Georgia,

959
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 6: some crossover libertarian votes, things like that that haven't happened

960
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 6: in Mississippi. But they still feel like it's the long path, right,

961
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 6: and so this could be the start of that, or

962
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 6: they feel like they could be Georgia, you know, ten

963
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:29,879
Speaker 6: years from now, that kind of.

964
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 2: Thing, right.

965
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: I have to say, like, I was completely shocked that

966
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: Georgia went before North Carolina, where North Carolina seemed like

967
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: it would be quicker, kind of bluining. So I just

968
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 1: want to ask you, sort of for our listeners, what

969
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: does it sound like sort of your takeaway is from

970
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 1: the story in Mississippi? I mean, what would need to

971
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: happen for Presley to become governor?

972
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,280
Speaker 6: So Pressley as he campaigns, he talks about this broad

973
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:08,480
Speaker 6: coalition of black Minsipiens, White Misissippians, Republicans, Democrats, independence, everyone,

974
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 6: and for him to win, he does truly need to

975
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 6: build that coalition. As we said earlier, it's a state

976
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 6: with the highest black voting edge population, but that's still

977
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 6: not a majority by any means, So he'll need to

978
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 6: pull away some moderate Republicans, some independence, maybe trying to

979
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 6: rebuild those northeast part of the state Democrats, and build

980
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 6: this coalition.

981
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,840
Speaker 5: To be Tate Reeves.

982
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 6: And it seems like, you know, the way he does

983
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 6: that is focusing on an issue that is so sailing

984
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 6: among the voters.

985
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 5: Have to keep coming back to it. But it's that

986
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 5: medicaid expansion.

987
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:39,640
Speaker 4: Again.

988
00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:41,719
Speaker 6: If he were to have a chance, it would mean

989
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 6: that he really connected on that issue and was able

990
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 6: to kind of build this coalition that's necessary to win there,

991
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 6: because while Georgia might seem purely purple, Mississippi is still

992
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 6: purely red. So it would have to be an upset

993
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,640
Speaker 6: where you do build a surprising keep using the word coalition,

994
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 6: but you do build as a coalition of voters that

995
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 6: will include, in fact, some Republicans who are just either

996
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 6: furious about the scandals, furious about medicaid, or some other issue.

997
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: Nick, thank you so much for joining us. Super interesting.

998
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: We will be watching Mississippi.

999
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 6: Thanks for remy a moment, Rick Wilson.

1000
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:21,360
Speaker 4: My great moment of fuckery this week.

1001
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 3: Ah yes, my moment of fuckery is Dean fucking Phillips.

1002
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: Dean Phillips is a suicide bomber who is going to

1003
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 3: primary President Joseph Robinette Biden. He is the Pat Buchanan

1004
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 3: of this cycle. Anybody that would advise him to get

1005
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 3: into this race is the same kind of person that

1006
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 3: would have selected Sarah Palin as a vice president.

1007
00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:45,280
Speaker 2: Wait, who could you mean?

1008
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 3: I'm not saying a damn thing right now, but I

1009
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: will soon. This is a spectacularly moronic, amoral, stupid, politically corrosive,

1010
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 3: and harmful decision by a bunch of people who are

1011
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: sniffing Dean Phillips asks for money. Because certain consultants in

1012
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 3: the world have a gift for whiffing around the backsides

1013
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,280
Speaker 3: of candidates who have a lot of money and giant egos,

1014
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 3: and Dean Phillips has both. They're going to put this

1015
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 3: guy in the race. They're going to try to make

1016
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 3: him into a New Hampshire story. And so he got

1017
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 3: twenty four percent or whatever it turns out to be

1018
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 3: in New Hampshire, it means Biden should step down.

1019
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 4: It ain't gonna happen. People.

1020
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:26,720
Speaker 3: Dean Phillips is Look, they failed to get JFK Junior

1021
00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 3: and the Democratic ticket and this is their.

1022
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 4: Next This is the dollar store. Excuse me.

1023
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 3: JFK Junior is, of course very busy right now, secretly

1024
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 3: run in the country.

1025
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: That's right.

1026
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 3: I'm working with the military. Of course, he is RFK Junior.

1027
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,560
Speaker 3: But this is like the dollar store RFK Junior.

1028
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,080
Speaker 2: RFK Junior without the steroids, r f.

1029
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 4: K Junior without the without the dulcet tones and the HGH. Right.

1030
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 3: But this guy is he's my moment of fuckery this week.

1031
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 3: There's a bunch of stories that are broken now about

1032
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 3: the people around him. I'm going the same about it

1033
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 3: as it develops. But i will tell you one thing.

1034
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 3: This guy can do nothing but hurt Joe Biden. All

1035
00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 3: he's gonna do is get the Republicans talking points and

1036
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 3: say see even Democrat Dean Phillips says that Joe Biden's

1037
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 3: too old to be president, because that's their whole strategy.

1038
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 3: By the way, they're gonna say, Joe Biden's a nice

1039
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 3: old man, but he needs a gold watch and a

1040
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 3: retirement plan, and we're going to be the young, vital

1041
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 3: voice of America. Let me tell you some this guy

1042
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 3: when it's over. I promise you this, personally and politically,

1043
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 3: this guy he's going to want to be in the

1044
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 3: witness protection program with when people are done with him,

1045
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,359
Speaker 3: because it is deeply, deeply destructive. The only thing that's

1046
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 3: going to lead to is Pat Buchanan style division inside

1047
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 3: the Democratic Party, and they know it.

1048
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 1: But who even is a Dean Phillips candidacy for besides

1049
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: someone who needs to buy a boat?

1050
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:49,840
Speaker 2: Who picks Sarah Palin.

1051
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 3: Well, he's a green room candidate and people in the

1052
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 3: media world will love to book him because it's like

1053
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 3: more red meat and more more spectacle. But he has

1054
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:01,839
Speaker 3: no predicate for running other than the fact that he's

1055
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 3: not eighty years old. That's his entire argument for election.

1056
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,959
Speaker 3: I'm not eighty. This is a backbencher. He's never set

1057
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 3: the world on fire in any way politically or in

1058
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 3: terms of ideas. I don't think he particularly has any

1059
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:18,399
Speaker 3: ideas other than his name is Dean Phillips, and he's

1060
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:20,280
Speaker 3: very wealthy and he wants to run for office.

1061
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: But he does love ice cream, and the ven diagram

1062
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: of Democrats who love ice cream who don't love Joe

1063
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 1: Biden is very small, and so for that Dean Phillips

1064
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: is our moment of fuckeray. That's it for this episode

1065
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday

1066
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: to hear the best minds in politics makes sense of

1067
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, please

1068
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

1069
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.