1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Well, there's no other way 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: to put it. I've seen a lot of dead bodies, 3 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: been to a lot of crime scenes, homicide scenes, Morgan 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: visits during autopsies. And one thing I have wondered over 5 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: and over and there's no good answer. Why is it 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: so often that the good people are the ones that 7 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: are killed, that are taken advantage of, that die young 8 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: in life, that are mistreated. Why is that? I don't 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: know the answer to that, but I do know this. 10 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: Whoever killed Knocks Panther, They're going down. So help me 11 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: God in heaven. I mean, I see Grace. This is 12 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at 13 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: Fox Nation in Serious X one eleven. Listen to this. 14 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 1: This is Jamie Kennedy's CBS forty six. He took incredible 15 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: care of his grandparents. Never complain. I always put others first. 16 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: Family and those close to the Painters described Knox Painter 17 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: as a man with a huge, hot and caring nature. 18 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: He had been through cancer when he was four, had 19 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 1: lost an eye, He lost his mom to cancer when 20 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: he was a teenager, and he was always there trying 21 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: to help take care of his sisters and his brother. 22 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 1: You know that is a rare person that will step 23 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: up and take care of an aging relative. It's not easy, 24 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: it's not a lot of There's not a lot of 25 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: Hallmark moments in that. Although actually I take that back, 26 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: because there's plenty. I've got my mother with me, just 27 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: turned ninety years old, and I thank God every day 28 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: I'm the one that gets to take care of her. 29 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 1: I don't want her living somewhere else. I want her 30 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: with me, and I want to help her just the 31 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: way she helped me growing up. And that is who 32 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: knocks panther was started to say, is at just twenty 33 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: four years old. To top it all off, he survived 34 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: childhood cancer only to be gunned down. Why again, this 35 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us, with 36 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 1: me an all star panel to make sense of what 37 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:36,959 Speaker 1: we know right now. Kirby Clemens, high profile lawyer and 38 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:41,959 Speaker 1: author of How to Keep Your Ass Except as Money 39 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 1: Signs out of Jail. Okay, thanks Kirby for that. Karen Start, 40 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You can find 41 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: her at Karen Stark dot com. That's Karenen with a CE. 42 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, founder and director of the Cold Case Research 43 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: Institute and you can find her at Coldcase cribs dot org. 44 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Michelle Duprie, longtime friend and colleague, forensic pathologist, author 45 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: of homicide Investigation Field Guide, Taisha Fernandez with us TV 46 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: news reporter at WSBTV Atlanta and special guests joining us 47 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: Donald Prison. Longtime friend of Knox Painter. Who is Knox Painter? 48 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: Why was his life cut short? Take a listen to 49 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 1: our cut number three our friends at Fox five. The 50 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: victim's family came forward as you mentioned and identified him 51 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: as twenty four year old Knox Panter. Now East Point 52 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: Police say he was shot when he went out to 53 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: his truck in the middle of the night and notice 54 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: some guys breaking into it. Shouts were fired and those 55 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: guys drove off in a dark four door sedan. This 56 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: was on East Woodland Circle just after one on Friday morning. 57 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: Medics rush Panter to Atlanta Medical South, where doctors were 58 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 1: able to save him. The family is just so heartbroken 59 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: that they didn't want to go on camera understandably. Right now, 60 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: they describe him as a sweet, caring and hard working person. 61 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: I spoke with a close friend who knew him since 62 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: he was a little boy. It's fair first, but then 63 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: then tremendous anger. If any of your vehicles had been 64 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: tampered with, or if you've got videos of people acting oddly, 65 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: or any question at all, police turn it over to 66 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: these point police and with me the persons whose voice 67 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: you are hearing, Donald Prison, longtime friend of this young man, 68 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: just a big teddy bear, Knox Panter, Donald Prison, from 69 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: what I am hearing, and I've asked a lot of people, 70 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: and believe me, Panter is right up there with some 71 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: of the kindest people I've ever heard about. Donald Prison. 72 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: I don't care who the victim is, what they are, 73 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: if they're none or a hooker, because Lady Justice is wind. 74 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:10,480 Speaker 1: She doesn't care. Got in your Vanguard account. It doesn't 75 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: matter under the law. But it's especially painful when such 76 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: a fine person, a fine young man there taking care 77 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 1: of his grandmother for Pete's sake, is gunned down over 78 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: what stealing something out of his vehicle. Donald, what's your 79 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: understanding of what happened? Well, I guess Knox heard her disturbance. 80 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: He went outside and confronted. I believe it was two individuals, 81 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 1: and they shot, and there was gunfire and Knox. Knox 82 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 1: was shot in the chest and pretty much died there 83 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 1: outside the house. When did you learn that Knox was killed? Well, 84 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 1: it happened at one o'clock Friday morning, and I found 85 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: out first thing Friday morning, when the sun came up. 86 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:07,840 Speaker 1: His uncle called me, how did you know Knox? Well, 87 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: I was fortunate enough to be grafted into the Panter 88 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: family when I was fourteen and been blessed to be 89 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: a part of all the ups and downs since then. 90 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: I'm fifty six, so a long time, very fortunate. You know, 91 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, You and I had a lot of cases 92 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: together in the trenches. I don't mean in front of 93 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 1: a TV camera. I mean working the cases, trying to 94 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: find perbs, bringing them to justice, trying to help crime victims. 95 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: And this reminds me so much of my very first 96 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: carjack murder case. The victim was a young man. I 97 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: can't remember if you were in and around the courtroom 98 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: when I tried this case, but he had gone outside 99 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: and somebody was trying to steal his car and he 100 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: was unarmed. I think it was in the middle of 101 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: the NYE think he ran out in his gym shorts 102 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: and his t shirt and they shot him dead in 103 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: the driveway. And that case sticks in my mind because 104 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: of one very poignant moment in it. The neighbor heard 105 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: the gunfire and ran outside, saw the teen lying there 106 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: bleeding out, and ran in and got a pillow and 107 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: put under his head as he was dying or was 108 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:37,119 Speaker 1: already dead. And that act of kindness and love toward 109 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: this teen boy dying in his own driveway over what 110 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: a car and it knocks Panter's case reminds me of that, 111 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: the senseless killing over what. What is your understanding, Cheryl, 112 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: of what happened? Well, you've got a young man that 113 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: loved the grandmama and his grandfather has just recently died, 114 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: so he didn't want her to be alone. He wanted 115 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: to be there to help her out with household things 116 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: as well as protector. So when he hears whatever's going 117 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: on outside, he goes out to see what's going on. 118 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: And they were breaking into his work truck. And he 119 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: had started his own business as a tree tremmor so 120 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: he had all kinds of saws and carabineers and robes. 121 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: That's how he makes a living. So when he hollered 122 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: out at him or whatever he did to get their attention. 123 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: They shot him. They shot him over items that were his. 124 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 1: And these folks, it's important for people to remember, Nancy 125 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: that a lot of these entering autos, they're just kind 126 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: of like, oh, well, they just broke into a car, 127 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,599 Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. These young men have graduated 128 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: from being a petty thief to a murderer and over 129 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: over for whatever knocks had in his vehicle over nothing. 130 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace. We want these two purps. 131 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: I want them behind bars. I want them behind bars 132 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: so badly this I want to call him a kid, 133 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: but he's twenty four, his whole life in front of him, 134 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: and he was there at that location out of pure 135 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: love for his grandmother. Now, how many people do you 136 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: know that want to take care of their grandmother? Because 137 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: I don't know very many. As a matter of fact, 138 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: I know a lot of sons and daughters. They don't 139 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: want to take care of their mother, much less their grandmother. 140 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: Think about it, everybody in this studio, three ladies are 141 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: sitting with me, and everyone is shaking their head. Yes 142 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: that they know people that they don't have time to 143 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,200 Speaker 1: take care of mom and dad. But visit much less 144 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: take care of him much less their grandmother. You know, 145 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: it makes me think, and I'm sure you've heard me 146 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: talk about her before care and Start. My grandmother, Lucy, 147 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: my mother's mother that lived down the street from us 148 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: growing up. I named Lucy after her because I love 149 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: her so much, and I can tell you a quick 150 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: story care and Start. So, when my fiancee that was murdered, Keith, 151 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: moved to Athens to finish up his geology degree, I 152 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: transferred to Mercy University so I can be closer to him. 153 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: And so we'd burn up the phones on long distance 154 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: phone calls. And my father, oh, he did not want 155 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: to see that phone bill, so I would sneak the 156 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: phone bill when it came to I'd look every day 157 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: to get the Southern Bill phone bill and try to 158 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: pay it before he got it. At one time, I 159 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: think it was like fifty dollars, and I'm like, oh, 160 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:59,319 Speaker 1: dear Lord, and I have a brier. I can to 161 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: get fifty at morty. I don't want to hear these 162 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,960 Speaker 1: terrible stories about you at way. So I didn't know 163 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: anybody to ask for fifty dollars. So I went to 164 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: my grandmother Mama Lucy. And you know what, I didn't 165 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: know any better. She didn't have anything. She had nothing. 166 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: She worked her whole life in a factory and on 167 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: a farm. And do you know, she said, bring me 168 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,599 Speaker 1: in my pocket book, and she unrolls some money, a moneyball, 169 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: and she counted out fifty dollars cash, which you know 170 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: she could not afford to give me, and she gave 171 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: me and I went, oh, thank you, and a hug 172 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 1: drink Kister and rand not understanding that that was a 173 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: big sacrifice to her. And I went to the phone 174 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: company and paid the bill with cash. I mean, that's 175 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 1: what I'm thinking about a grandmother. And here is Knox 176 00:11:54,040 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: Panther trying to take care of his grandmother. But with 177 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:04,959 Speaker 1: me another special guest, you know her, you see her, 178 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: Taysha Fernandez with WSB. Tasha. Who are these guys that 179 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: gone down this young man over nothing? These thieves are 180 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: willing to do whatever they have to do to get 181 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: what you have, And unfortunately, during the holiday season they 182 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: get more brazen. And when we heard what happened in 183 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: East Point, we knew that they were breaking in Wait wait, wait, wait, 184 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,640 Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait a minute. The holiday season tay Asha. 185 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: I like a lot of places we still say Christmas 186 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 1: it is Chris. Okay, Chris, I got to be a 187 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: little bit more politically correct than you. But yeah, not here. 188 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: Christ was borne my Holy Father him. Yes, okay, go ahead, 189 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 1: this is birthday. I got you. So people steal from 190 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: other people to give Christmas to their families, as crazy 191 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: as it sound about you, but yeah, or to buy dope, 192 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 1: get a five rock, a crack and they're all fine. Yes, Well, 193 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: they have been terrorizing that particular East Point neighborhood for weeks. 194 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: You know, that wasn't the first time Knox's truck was 195 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: broken into. I believe it was the second or third time, 196 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: and I believe he was fed up along with many 197 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: other people. It's so relatable. You see somebody breaking into 198 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: your property, your first instinct is going to be to 199 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: grab your gun and protect your stuff. And to know 200 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: that these people, these seeds that don't even want to 201 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: call them people, that they killed Knox over breaking into 202 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 1: his own property. I mean to hear his family and 203 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: friends talk about how wonderful he was. You know, it 204 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: made us tear up in the newsroom. And the sad 205 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: thing is this isn't going to stop, and without more 206 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,559 Speaker 1: of a police presence, it's going to keep happening to 207 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,359 Speaker 1: more good people. And I like what you said earlier, Nancy. 208 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: Why does it always happen to the good people? I mean, 209 00:13:55,920 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: I'm waiting for God to tell me that when it's 210 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: my time to go, why the good people blaze to 211 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: show us more of an example of how horrible we are. 212 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at Knox Panther right now. He's 213 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: just a big teddy bear. I'm looking at one that 214 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: says it was just posted about eighteen hours ago, Kelly. 215 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: It says cancer survivor killed while intervening and burglary of 216 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: his truck. And I don't know if you have this picture, 217 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: but I love this picture of him. I'm just gonna 218 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: show it real quick. That big smile he's got, He 219 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: just looks like I just want to hug him with 220 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: that smile looking at the camera. He's like a big 221 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: teddy bear to me. And he died. He bled out 222 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: over what was says joining me. I mentioned earlier as 223 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: a high profile lawyer. You know him well, Kirby Clements 224 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: and Kirby is a defense attorney and author. But Kirby 225 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 1: and I go a long way back. Kirby was mister 226 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: cool at the Fulton County District Attorney's office. When I 227 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: was a prosecutor. I was always running up and down 228 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: the halls like a whirling dervish, all strung out about 229 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: my next trial and this bad guy and that bad guy. 230 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: And Kirby was always so even killed. You know, Kirby, 231 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: do you remember the still there the parking lot right 232 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: there on the corner of Prior and MLK. Yeah, parking lot, yeah, 233 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: for underground at Lant. But you know, I consider at 234 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: the courthouse parking lot. Well, I couldn't afford the courthouse 235 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: parking a lot. It's like fifteen dollars a day. I'm like, 236 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,640 Speaker 1: uh no. And I would actually go way, way, way, 237 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: way down toward the jail Detention center and park down 238 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: there and walk in high heels and the rain, the whatever, 239 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,200 Speaker 1: dragging you know how I dragged that trial cart behind 240 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: me on wheels, right, yeah, all the way and up 241 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: the steps into the courthouse and final, finally, I finally, 242 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: after X number of years in the DA's office, got 243 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: a spot in that parking deck. Do you know, Kirby, 244 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: how many times my car was broken into, I think 245 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: eleven or twelve times, and for what do you remember, 246 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: Jeanette barfielder office administrator. You know how mash you getting me? 247 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: Because I'd keep the one polaroid. Then we had two 248 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,840 Speaker 1: polaroid cameras for the whole office, and I'd have it 249 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: in on my back seat to go out and take 250 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: pictures for juries, and it would keep getting stolen. Finally, 251 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, I just started leaving my window down and 252 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: leaving nothing in the car at all, or the window 253 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: up and unlocked because my car was broken into so 254 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: many times. I knew the number by heart for doctor 255 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: Glass and the locksmith, mostly doctor Glass to help me, 256 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, get my car fixed. How does it How 257 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: does it escalate Kirby from breaking into somebody's truck to 258 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: leaving him dead on the ground bleeding out? You know, Nancy, 259 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: I will tell you a couple of things. One, I 260 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: used to park in another parking let down there, and uh, 261 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 1: I kept much did it cost Kirby? It was cheap 262 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: it I think I paid thirty dollars a month or something. 263 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: Was some ridiculous amount covered parking covered? Yeah, it was. 264 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: It was way down and it was near the federal courthouse. 265 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: It was a no, no, no. Uh. I didn't have 266 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:29,719 Speaker 1: time because you know, I fly in at the last minute. 267 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: With all that stuff, I could not walk all the 268 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: way from the Federal Courthouse to the to fold the 269 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,359 Speaker 1: County Superior No, uh, go ahead, no no, but I 270 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 1: can't pay junk carss. I think you know, they just 271 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 1: say it's too much garbage in there. But as to 272 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: how this thing moves along, I'll tell you. Um, I 273 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,360 Speaker 1: kind of came to this conclusion from my prosecutor days 274 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: and my defense my defense lawyer days. You have people 275 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: A man with no hope is a dangerous man, and 276 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: I think you have a lot of people out there 277 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: who may not. It's not about getting nessarily getting drugs. 278 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: It's just people don't even understand. They don't appreciate the 279 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: value of their life or the value of anyone else's life. 280 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: And if you don't, you don't love yourself, You're not 281 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: gonna love anybody and see the value in yourself. You're 282 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: not going to see their value in anyone else. Why wait, 283 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: let me understand, you have your j D and that's 284 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: yours doctrine. Correct, you do have that right now, I 285 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 1: don't call you having a degree in psychiatry or psychology, 286 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: What are you saying you don't love yourself, you can't 287 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: love anybody else. What does that have to do with 288 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: Knox pan or getting gunned down outside his grandma's house. 289 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: Oh no, well several things. One do it because you 290 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, I talk to these young men. My 291 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: son has been shot at just walking down the street 292 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:39,879 Speaker 1: by people who just pulled up the shoot and I 293 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: can try to get an understanding. So you talk to people. 294 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,439 Speaker 1: You talk to your clients. You talk to people, and 295 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: you realize they just feel like you got something I want. 296 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: I'm going to get the thing I want and it 297 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what I have to do to get it. 298 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: And you think to yourself, waiting, you are listening to 299 00:18:54,160 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: your class. You think they're telling you the truth, whether 300 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: they did it or not. But when they did, when 301 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: they do it, I'm telling you, Nanty, it's you gotta look. 302 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: You gotta talk to these people. Say all the eyes 303 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: that are rolling in here, everybody's eyes are rolling, and 304 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: it doesn't curb me place. Don't start believing your clients. 305 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: You're gonna be out of business pretty quickly. But remember, 306 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: even if you're gonna start believing them. Get the money upfront. 307 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: Get the money upfront. Don't listen when they say they're 308 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: gonna pay you after the trial. Don't know. You gotta 309 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: you have to talk to them in their families, and 310 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: you love and you sit there and I stand there. 311 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: You look at him tell you with a strange face 312 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: about a crime that they committed, and you were asking, well, 313 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: what were you thinking? And when they when they finished 314 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:47,919 Speaker 1: saying the words, you just have to go, Wow, that 315 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:49,920 Speaker 1: was just the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. 316 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: But then when you start hearing a whole lot, you realize, 317 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: you know what. First of all, I'm not gonna call it, well, 318 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 1: it's just the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. 319 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,240 Speaker 1: But it's a consistent dumb thing that I hear all 320 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,439 Speaker 1: the time. So these people haven't Donald Pridgeon, do you 321 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: see what we have to put up with? You got 322 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: Knocks panther who's never done anything wrong, who goes out 323 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 1: to check on his truck, and these people gunn him down. 324 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: I don't care what they've been through in their life. 325 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Don't explain to me how 326 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 1: Knocks ended up the one taking care of his grandmother. Well, 327 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: I mean they were they were up in age and 328 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,240 Speaker 1: they needed someone to do just basic stuff around the house, 329 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,679 Speaker 1: yard work and help with some of the heavy lifting. 330 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: Um so that that's how he ended up over there? 331 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: Was he living there? Was he staying there? Yes, ma'am. 332 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at some pictures Taisha Fernandez joining 333 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: me from WSBTV, and you probably had them before People 334 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: Magazine had them. But I'm looking at them in People 335 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: Magazine of two guys. They're both dressed in black. Yes, 336 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: hard to see their faces in one of them. I 337 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: can see that it's blurry, but I can see it 338 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: pretty well. They're wearing hoodies, black hoodies with some kind 339 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:31,199 Speaker 1: of logo on them, and it looks like they have 340 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: the same white logo on the left side of their 341 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: jacket or hoodies. And there's also some type something light 342 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: colored emblazoned on the shoulders as they are running. Somebody 343 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: knows these guys and hopefully they turn them into the 344 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: crime stoppers money sometime soon. And I have a feeling 345 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 1: they're blabbing their mouth about what happened as well. They're 346 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 1: not keeping it to themselves. What is that phenomen Karen start, 347 00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: Karen start joining me. You're now a psychologist joining us 348 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 1: out of Manhattan, Karen start. Why can't people keep their 349 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: yapp shut? I mean, it's just human instinct, Nancy. Especially 350 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: if you're somebody who's excited about doing this, as much 351 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: as that seems crazy, you're going to want to brad 352 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: to other people and let them know because for you 353 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: it's an accomplishment. But I want to say something about 354 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: human nature. It isn't true that everybody is basically good. 355 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: There are people that are not good, that are bad. 356 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: And I'm not even sure that these guys, I bet 357 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: did not. It didn't matter what was in the car 358 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: nearly as much as they started off with a gun, 359 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,880 Speaker 1: and so they were prepared to use that to shoot somebody. 360 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: And I really do believe that that's part of the 361 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: excitement for them, that they were ready to use it 362 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: and looking to do that and able to laugh about 363 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,400 Speaker 1: it afterwards. And I'm fortunately deal with people like that 364 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: in the world, and seeing themselves all over the news 365 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: on every single station here in Atlanta, I'm sure it 366 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: is uling them up for the next ride. Absolutely, Nancy. 367 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: I gotta jump in here and I can I stop you, No, 368 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:23,120 Speaker 1: not at all what you're seeing. There's no city, whether 369 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: it's Chicago, Miami, Kansas City, Behaven, entering autos are just rampant. 370 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: You have got organized street gangs that are targeting these 371 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 1: vehicles for guns. You can ask a thousand people that 372 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: have had their car broken into and they'll tell you 373 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: the glove compartment was open in the center console. They're 374 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: looking for guns first, then they'll move to tools and 375 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: electronics and things of that nature that they can easily 376 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,000 Speaker 1: pawn for you quick cash. But those guns are paramount 377 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: to them. It gives them not only a level that 378 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: they can move to their next crime, for an armed 379 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: robbery or even a bank robbery, but also the amount 380 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: they can get on the street. For example, in Atlanta, 381 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: a hot gun is going to bring you about two 382 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: hundred dollars, whereas in New York it's going to bring 383 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: you twelve hundred. So if you've got a street game 384 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: that can send out fifteen to sixteen year old seventeen 385 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: year old people and hit forty cars a night, if 386 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: they can all bring those guns back to one fence 387 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: and that person goes to New York, you're talking about 388 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 1: tons of money. Using very young people to do it. 389 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 1: This was strategic, this was organized, and they will be context, 390 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 1: you know, connected to multiple crimes in the metro Atlanta area. 391 00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: And you know, Kirby Clemens, as you know, I remember 392 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: the first time I understood what dapers were doing. You know, 393 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: our boss, mister Slayton, the longest serving district elected district 394 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: attorney in the unit the States at that time, I 395 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: think it was thirty seven years Fine, fine, fine, boss Kirby, 396 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: you know who'd send us to send us to indictments, 397 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: so I would learn to draw up in dinens, send 398 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: us to grand jury, would have to present to the 399 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: grand jury. Then would do a stint in juvenile where 400 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: they're not really there's no jury trials, there's really no 401 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: rules of evidence, but you do practice putting up evidence 402 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: to a judge more like a social worker. But Kirby, 403 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: I remember so many juveniles coming in holding you know, 404 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: five rocks, rocks of crack, and what I realized roper 405 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: would be nearby directing the juveniles what to do, and 406 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: the juven I would pass the doper the money and 407 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 1: the doper would never really touch the dope because juvenile 408 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: might do two months at jube jail where an adult 409 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: could do fifty life depending on how many times he 410 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 1: had been busted. So what Cheryl is saying does ring 411 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: true that these people could be part of street gangs 412 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: that are trying to get stolen items like guns, working 413 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: for somebody over them or not. What do you make 414 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: of that? No, I think it's actually a very solid 415 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: theory because they do for guns in people's cars. People 416 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,080 Speaker 1: shouldn't leave their guns in their cars. They do look 417 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 1: for cell phones and electronics in vehicles. So there's a 418 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: lot there, and you're correct, there is usually I'm going 419 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: to use a multilevel marketing term, there is an up 420 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: line where you've got some older, more seasoned guys who 421 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: are utilizing these younger guys who really just go out 422 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: and just go crazy, I mean, doing stupid things like 423 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: you didn't have to shoot anybody at this stage of 424 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: the game. You don't have to shoot anybody. You could 425 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: have gotten their cases where people are giving up the 426 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: money and still get shot. But these guys are trying 427 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,560 Speaker 1: to make their bones or whatever phrase you know is 428 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: the current term of art on the streets. It's money 429 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: making your name, and they're doing it, and they're doing 430 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: it with people who are just who have me young 431 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: people by themselves good kids still, you know, if I've 432 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: had teenagers, you know my kids are grown now. But 433 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,479 Speaker 1: when in the teen years you're like, dear lord, you 434 00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: know what is wrong with you? But imagine that with 435 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: no supervision and some or the supervision they're getting is 436 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: like Fagan and Oliver Twist, some evil mind, mastermind who's 437 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 1: just utilizing them and they're willing to do it, and 438 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: they are willing to kill, steal and destroy for the 439 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,719 Speaker 1: few hundred bucks for the gun. You know, change as 440 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: a matter of fact, Doctor Michel J. Prey, I'm listening 441 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,160 Speaker 1: to Kirby Clements, former prosecutor with me now defense attorney, 442 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 1: Doctor du Pree, thank you so much for being with us. 443 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:53,560 Speaker 1: Number one forensic pathologist, former medical examiner, author of Homicide 444 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: Investigation Field Guide. I could ask you about his injuries, 445 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 1: how long it took him to lean out? Was he 446 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: aware of what was happening to him, which I hate 447 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: to think that he was lying there on the ground 448 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 1: near his truck dying. But what I want to ask you, 449 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: in all your experience homicide investigation of Field Guide, how 450 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: can we catch these pups well? Nancy. Unfortunately, if there's 451 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: no no, don't start with unfortunately, give me something to 452 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 1: go on. Well, you're gonna have to have somebody to talk. 453 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,800 Speaker 1: I mean, basically, that's it. If there's not cameras there 454 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: from neighbors other doors. Hold on, Tisha for Nandez joining 455 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: us from WSBTV. Where did these shots come come from? Oh? 456 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 1: Those are from Knox's neighbors. Everybody in that neighborhood has 457 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: a ring camera or something more even better on their houses. 458 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: There are ex police officers in that neighborhood that have 459 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: good cameras on the side of their houses. And I 460 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 1: just want to add this again, Nancy, they came back 461 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: to that neighborhood for a reason. They hit those same people, 462 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: according to the neighbors hit that same neighborhood. Up. I 463 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: have a co worker who lived right across the street 464 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 1: from Knox's grandmother, and she said, those same guys we're 465 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 1: see on camera coming back to that neighborhood crime stories 466 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. What's so likely to doctor Michelle Dupree 467 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: that the different people all picked the same street to 468 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 1: vandalize it's them. If I could get one print off 469 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 1: of one vehicle, that they bust it into I've got 470 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: something and what about this? What about this? Go with me, 471 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: doctor Dupree. Remember the missing Connecticut mom of five, Jennifer Dulos, 472 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 1: Remember how you and I talked about how now the 473 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: cops put together following her husband, Fotus Dulos POC technical 474 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,200 Speaker 1: legal term, all through the neighborhood, all through the town, 475 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: disposing of bloody clothes at different trash jumps, and they 476 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: would getting him on a ring camera, they'd get him 477 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: on a traffic light cam. That this really impressed me. 478 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,560 Speaker 1: A public bus opened up the door and you could 479 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: see him on the cam inside the bus drive by, 480 00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:33,640 Speaker 1: and they put together his movements, ending up at a 481 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 1: car wash where he had the vehicle where I think 482 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: he transported her dead body, completely cleaned and detailed. If 483 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: I've already got these pictures, why can't we do that 484 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: with all the people that live in that neighborhood and 485 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,000 Speaker 1: maybe even get a license number. Trust me, they're not 486 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: on foot. Somebody needs to recognize them and stand up 487 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: and step up, Nancy. And a lot of times people 488 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 1: just won't talk. We need more of a reward offer, 489 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,920 Speaker 1: and I bet you they'll start talking. Is there a 490 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: reward right now, there's a standard crime stoppers reward twenty 491 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: five hundred dollars for any information. But if the community, 492 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,239 Speaker 1: you know, makes more of some noise, especially because at 493 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: the poorly patrolled neighborhood police wise, I bet you offer 494 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: more money, his friends will give him up. The shooter 495 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:24,720 Speaker 1: I'm talking about, you know, Donald Prison, hold On, hold on? 496 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: Does anybody know the caliber? What kind of weapon was 497 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: he used? Cheryl? Do you know that yet? I do not, Well, 498 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 1: we'll find out soon enough. To Donald Prison. Donald, you 499 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 1: said words about him about Knox Panter, and they really 500 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:49,760 Speaker 1: struck me about how kind and gentle he was, all 501 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: that he had surmounted, all that he had been through 502 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: to become the young man that he was there taking 503 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: care of his grandmother. Tell me about him, Well, he 504 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: was just coming into his own. He had always been 505 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: happy being in the background, being supportive, never had to 506 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: be in the spotlight. But he had just started this 507 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: tree business. His sister just got his business cards, and 508 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: his business side just came to the house yesterday. He 509 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: had a great drive sense of humor and what was 510 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: kind of funny on the business cards. I looked at 511 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: him and it was his name of his company was 512 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: Panther's Panther Tree Service, and I asked him why and 513 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,160 Speaker 1: I was told, well, everyone mispronounces his name anyway, and 514 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: he thought it was kind of funny. And that's just 515 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,640 Speaker 1: who he was. He was going to accommodate everybody else 516 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: not being able to say Panther and give a little 517 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: chuckle to himself about it every time they did it. 518 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I read a quote from you last night. Actually it 519 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: may be from your sister or your wife, Kelly, my wife. Yeah, 520 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: and she said, sweet, quiet, gentle, hardworking, decent person, beloved 521 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: by all who knew him. That just really struck me. 522 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: A sweet, quiet, gentle, hardworking, decent person, beloved by all 523 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: who knew him. I don't think I've ever heard anything 524 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: so beautiful. Well, and she said last night, And it's right. 525 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,960 Speaker 1: Knox has always been easy. NICs was easy when he 526 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: was a baby, as a teenager, and as an adult. 527 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: Knox was never the one to cause drama. He was 528 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: always caught up in it, the things that he couldn't control. 529 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: You may like his cancer, absolutely, and but he always 530 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,480 Speaker 1: he never made things difficult for anyone. He was there 531 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,080 Speaker 1: to be supportive. I want you to take a listen 532 00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: to our cut number five. This is Joe Hinky at 533 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: eleven A line quiet. He was so humble, he was 534 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: so supportive, and it was rare. I mean, you just 535 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: don't see that. Donald Pridgeon is a lifelong friend of 536 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 1: a twenty four year old Knox Panter and his family. 537 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 1: He says Panter lived in East Point, where he was 538 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: taking care of his grandparents. At the age of four, 539 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: he lost an eye during a battle with cancer, and 540 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 1: in twenty twelve he lost his mother to cancer. And 541 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: he persevered through all that with tremendous grace and love 542 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: for those around. And Friday morning, around one am, Panther 543 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: was shot and killed outside his family's home, according to 544 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: East Point Police. They say Panter was shot on the 545 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: corner of Woodland Circle and Windburn Drive as he tried 546 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: to protect a truck he used for a tree trimming 547 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,880 Speaker 1: business he recently started. They were breaking in his truck 548 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: and he came out. Paul and Evan guys. A family 549 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:53,799 Speaker 1: is organizing a go fund me to help pay the 550 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 1: funeral costs. It's a Knox Panter p A. N. T. E. R. 551 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: Moyal fun and it's got a great picture of him. Smiling, 552 00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,080 Speaker 1: beautiful picture and the picture that I showed you, and 553 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: that just breaks my heart. The family needs help to 554 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: pay for funeral costs. All we can do is pray 555 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: for the family. And you may be thinking, oh, he's 556 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,360 Speaker 1: going to miss so much, and but what he's done 557 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 1: is he's gone ahead of us. We're the ones behind. 558 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: He's gone on ahead of us to Heaven. I just 559 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: hate it so bad for his family. But all we 560 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: can do now is try to find the people that 561 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 1: took his life over nothing and left him there to 562 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 1: bleed out? What is that grandma going to think every 563 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:56,560 Speaker 1: time she walks out of her front porch, She's going 564 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 1: to look there and think that's where a Knox was killed. Old, 565 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,919 Speaker 1: try to take care of me. Jip line four zero 566 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 1: four seven six one two one seven seven repeat four 567 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: zero four two seven six one two one seven seven, 568 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: or you can go online to a glover a glover 569 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,720 Speaker 1: at East Point City dot org. Nancy Grace crime story 570 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: signing off good Bye friend,