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Speaker 1: Wake that ass up in the morning. Breakfast Club Morning.

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Speaker 2: Everybody is dj En v Charlamagne the God. We are

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Speaker 2: the Breakfast Club. You got a special guest.

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Speaker 1: In the building in front of the room, Yes, indeed,

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Speaker 1: we have Erica alexand in the back. Welcome you.

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Speaker 3: I'm glad to be here.

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Speaker 1: Y'all.

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Speaker 3: In your King chairs. It's fabulous.

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Speaker 1: We will have King chairs there too, shortly, King and Queen.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna spend though, because this is really not okay.

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Speaker 4: The problem heavy the head that wears the crack.

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Speaker 1: How are you.

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Speaker 4: I'm doing well. I'm well and highly blessed and highly favored.

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Speaker 4: I love to hear thank you.

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Speaker 3: These are n Ray locks of great debor hair.

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Speaker 1: Baby.

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Speaker 4: She created these. You actually seen these when I played Max.

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Speaker 4: They were in black, they were yard. It's just done

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Speaker 4: the color, yeah, because the the more it wears, the

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Speaker 4: more it looks Matt like real locks.

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Speaker 3: So it was a costume. I did not know that

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Speaker 3: was a cost.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was your real head a whole time.

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Speaker 3: No, it was it.

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Speaker 4: It was a hairstyle that i'd gotten right before I

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Speaker 4: had gotten the Audi edition, and I came in with

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Speaker 4: that look and it just worked for the character and

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Speaker 4: then became sort of synonymous with it. And then I've

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Speaker 4: rocked with her for now thirty years and she's innovated

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Speaker 4: on it.

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Speaker 3: These are the nray lots.

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Speaker 1: The executives fight you didn't like, you can't you can't

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Speaker 1: wait dreadlocks on TV.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, they didn't fight me because they had

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Speaker 4: already fought the Bowser about the entire character. They had

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Speaker 4: asked her to get rid of it. They didn't want Max,

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Speaker 4: and she said, no, if you get rid of Max,

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Speaker 4: you get rid of me, because I'm identify most with

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Speaker 4: her because I wanted to be a lawyer. She went

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Speaker 4: to Stanford, so she said, okay, I'll put her across

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Speaker 4: the street.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Why didn't they want the character? They felt like,

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Speaker 1: the cat's too big already or too strong?

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Speaker 3: Wow, too black?

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Speaker 4: Too strong, Wow, too strong? They said, the character's too strong.

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Speaker 3: Rid of it?

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Speaker 4: She said, no, why am I doing the show then?

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Speaker 4: And so that was a compromise. So that's why you

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Speaker 4: always saw her coming across the street. She was supposed

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Speaker 4: to live in the apartment with the girls.

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Speaker 1: But wow, the bullshit in Hollywood have gone off for

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Speaker 1: a long time, long time.

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Speaker 3: Somebody need to write a book. Oh they have no.

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Speaker 2: I thought about you the other day when Taraji was

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Speaker 2: talking about speaking about against work conditions and getting paid.

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Speaker 2: You're worth yeah, And when you were here I'm not

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Speaker 2: for show. It was the first time, a second time,

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Speaker 2: a third time you were comparing other shows and saying

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Speaker 2: that these other shows were getting so much more money,

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Speaker 2: but the ratings were pretty similar. So when you see that,

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Speaker 2: what was your thought?

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Speaker 4: Well, I hate to think about it because my heart

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Speaker 4: goes out to her. I love Taraji Pans and she's

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Speaker 4: right here. I am crying. I'm crying because I hate

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Speaker 4: to see black people in pain, anyone in pain, but

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Speaker 4: especially black people.

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Speaker 3: Because there is a systemic.

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Speaker 4: Paradigm, a template that's placed upon us, and it acts

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Speaker 4: upon you whether you know it or not. People try

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Speaker 4: to equate it with, say, the contracts that athletes get,

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Speaker 4: and that's the wrong thing to compare it to. People

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Speaker 4: don't understand how it works, so they make all these

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Speaker 4: assumptions you negotiated that you shouldn't have taken, That there's

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Speaker 4: a floor and a ceiling already, and it doesn't exist

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Speaker 4: based on merit or say performance performance. It's based on

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Speaker 4: anything they could come with that day. But it's based

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Speaker 4: on mostly your skin color, your gender and things like that.

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Speaker 4: And it doesn't matter often what you've done and how

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Speaker 4: much you've made, how much you've contributed to the culture,

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Speaker 4: the overall.

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Speaker 3: American culture, none of that.

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Speaker 4: It's random, and so it hurts to go and you

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Speaker 4: do all that work, and then each time you go

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Speaker 4: to the table, it's like starting at at you know,

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Speaker 4: at the base.

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Speaker 3: Again. I've gone through that my whole life.

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Speaker 4: And did people say, well, it's because you haven't been

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Speaker 4: successful in film in this way and that and that way?

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Speaker 3: I said, is it really? Because I see people who.

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Speaker 4: Have none of my success, none of my experience and

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Speaker 4: or talent, and they get more coming in the door.

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Speaker 4: So what is that They didn't even need to prove themselves.

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Speaker 4: Often they're getting offered these roles and we're still auditioning

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Speaker 4: for it, and they have tons of tape on us.

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Speaker 4: So it's true, and she's not the only one to

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Speaker 4: speak about it. She won't be the last. And there

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Speaker 4: needs to be something done. But unless you get it

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Speaker 4: at the root, meaning in distribution and creating a whole

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Speaker 4: different system, then we're always working underneath that.

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Speaker 2: Now you said something, you said negotiate, right, So the

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Speaker 2: first thing that man people say is is something that

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Speaker 2: you said, you have to negotiate what it is? But

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Speaker 2: the problem negotiating if they're not negotiating anything close. Do

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Speaker 2: you not take a job? Do you not take an opportunity?

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Speaker 2: And when do you finally work? If they're all negotiating

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Speaker 2: at the same scale.

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Speaker 4: That's right, But you know who does know those numbers?

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Speaker 4: The agents they negotiate all those contracts, and somewhere in

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Speaker 4: there there is a real conversation, a hard conversation about

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Speaker 4: why they're starting their female and the people of color,

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Speaker 4: meaning their actors of color, their clients of color at

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Speaker 4: a lower at a lower starting, and that goes to

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Speaker 4: how they see us, how they value us, if they

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Speaker 4: value us at all. I was told by someone who

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Speaker 4: used to manage me for a very short time, but

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Speaker 4: he said, Eric, if you ever wanted to know why

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Speaker 4: I didn't really do much for you, you it was

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Speaker 4: because I had three different partners from the same and

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Speaker 4: it's a big management company take him out to lunch

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Speaker 4: to tell him they'd seen his roster of clients and

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Speaker 4: they said, that's casting, that's not investing.

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Speaker 3: Wow, And they all took him out.

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Speaker 1: Do you break that down the difference between casting and investing.

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Speaker 4: I mean, when we need them, we can get them,

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Speaker 4: we don't invest in their careers. There's no way that

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Speaker 4: we want your time put in those careers. So we

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Speaker 4: don't want to invest as a as a management company

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Speaker 4: in that, we don't want you spending your time.

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Speaker 3: He was a black man. I've heard that over and

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Speaker 3: over again.

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Speaker 4: So if they're already dissuading you from representing your people

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Speaker 4: or the type of person, unless it's maybe somebody who's

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Speaker 4: already crossed over big, if you're not Will Smith, if

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Speaker 4: you're not Denzel Washington, then they're basically saying, don't invest

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Speaker 4: in those people. Perhaps maybe an athlete or maybe a

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Speaker 4: singer might make the cut, but not actresses, because you're right,

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Speaker 4: they can just go get someone else if you don't

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Speaker 4: take what they're offering.

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Speaker 1: Next, is it because there's I was I'm sitting there

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Speaker 1: trying to think of who would be the black woman

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Speaker 1: equivalent to a Denzel or a Will Like. Who's the

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Speaker 1: person that has done three or four blockbusters that have

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Speaker 1: made profit for a theater, for a for a studio.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, Well, maybe Halle Berry at one point there.

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Speaker 4: You might say that Viola is in that space now

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Speaker 4: because she's done the help and she's also done woman King.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if those numbers meet the standard, but

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Speaker 4: her life does. And if you just say okay, when

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Speaker 4: she puts it, she talked about it. She said, you know,

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Speaker 4: Merle Street did this, I've done that. If you just

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Speaker 4: sort of equate it with Merrill the great MARYL.

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Speaker 3: Street.

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Speaker 4: No one wants to take anything away from her. She

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Speaker 4: should be on par and I doubt she is. She's

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Speaker 4: saying she's making a tenth of what her white female

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Speaker 4: counterparts are making. Jessica Chastained famously linked her salary to

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Speaker 4: Octavia Spencer so she could get her first payday. Wow,

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Speaker 4: why is that after she scotten her oscar? That's great?

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 4: That's being not only an ally but an abolition issue.

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Speaker 4: You're linking your you know, your star power to someone

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Speaker 4: else to make sure that they get something. But that's unacceptable.

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Speaker 1: I saw, I think I read. American Fiction has made

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Speaker 1: almost six million dollars at the box office with a

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Speaker 1: budget of like almost two. If I'm not mistaken, it's.

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Speaker 3: The budget was more. I think it was over five.

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Speaker 1: It was over five. Yes, okay, but it's very critically acclaim.

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Speaker 1: But then I see like Booker Clarence had a budget

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Speaker 1: of like forty million, but they've only made three million

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Speaker 1: at the box office. Color Purple had a budget of

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Speaker 1: one hundred and forty. They made close to sixty. So

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Speaker 1: what do you feel the route to go is when

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Speaker 1: you're making black cinema?

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, we shouldn't call it black cinema.

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Speaker 4: We should call it cinema. They've done that to television

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Speaker 4: when they started saying that we were on a black show.

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Speaker 4: Suddenly those marketing dollars went down. Here when you're on

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Speaker 4: the Jeffersons, when you're on even Sanford and Son or

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Speaker 4: What's Happening. Those were shows on NBC, in ABC, they

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Speaker 4: were sandwiched white between Mash and other shows. And I

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Speaker 4: think that that was a paradigm ship that actually armed us.

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Speaker 4: We're always using their pressor's language to define us and

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Speaker 4: black music.

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Speaker 3: What's that?

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Speaker 4: All this music is ours, but it starts to categorize

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Speaker 4: us and put you know, it's redlining. If you can't

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Speaker 4: get past that, and they're already say it's a black show,

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Speaker 4: they don't say it's a Chinese show. I don't see

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Speaker 4: nobody saying it's black basketball or black football. Showed me

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Speaker 4: white football, then no, that's football soccer right same.

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Speaker 1: Well, there you go.

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Speaker 4: Don't tell that to all those you know, there was

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Speaker 4: countries of color. So well, but that's what we're talking about.

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Speaker 4: And that goes down to the myth that we don't

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Speaker 4: translate well overseas. But they don't say that about the music.

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Speaker 4: You couldn't put a black They would expect you on

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Speaker 4: some sneakers to link that with a black player because

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Speaker 4: they're seen as the best, but no, we won't buy

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Speaker 4: your stories. So then they did in twelve years Slave

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Speaker 4: in other countries. They put Brad Pitt right center in

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Speaker 4: big and minimized the lead character. And Brad Pitt was

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Speaker 4: furious when he saw it and he said, absolutely not,

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Speaker 4: You're not going to do that. But they've been doing

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Speaker 4: that for decades, and so that's a problem. We shouldn't

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Speaker 4: call it black cinema. We should call it cinema. And

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Speaker 4: we should also know that those marketing dollars and the

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Speaker 4: promotion is not the same. And when we are living single, unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: we were mostly sent to cities of color, DC Atlanta,

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Speaker 4: and we said, look, can we go to Prioria? Can

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Speaker 4: we go to We have fans all over. But they

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Speaker 4: didn't want to spend the money. So then therefore they're

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Speaker 4: limiting their own bottom line. Why are they doing that?

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Speaker 4: Because was the Cosby Show a black show? Or was

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Speaker 4: it a television show? Just after that they started to

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Speaker 4: create the type of language and very distinctive around television shows.

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Speaker 4: They had already done it with excuse me, with music,

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Speaker 4: but around television shows.

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Speaker 3: And we've paid the price.

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Speaker 4: And unless we get in there and look at the

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Speaker 4: system and diagnose the real problem, because it is systemic,

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Speaker 4: and it starts at representation and all those things that

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Speaker 4: know those numbers and yet continue to offer their clients

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Speaker 4: as less than valuable, then we'll never get past the problem.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely right. I wonder you know, because a lot

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Speaker 1: of times we do it out of a sense of pride, right,

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Speaker 1: like we say black music, you know, black black film.

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Speaker 1: But I guess we're kind of doing that to our

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Speaker 1: own detriment business.

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Speaker 3: Wise, right, singing a black book.

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Speaker 4: That's what American Fiction Party is about, is that he

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Speaker 4: doesn't want to be in a category of black anything.

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Speaker 4: He wants to say I'm an author that happens to

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Speaker 4: be black, and Tony Morrison talked about it, saying very

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Speaker 4: famously that everyone's seen the clip where the woman asked her,

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Speaker 4: would you ever write about white characters the way you write?

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Speaker 4: She goes to you, no idea. How insulting that is

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Speaker 4: because you would never ask a white author that. But

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Speaker 4: you presume that we want to be in your world.

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Speaker 4: She said, I'm writing my book and it's about the

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Speaker 4: characters that I know. So it's not meant to be

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Speaker 4: a book that's meant for black people. It's meant to

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Speaker 4: book be a book for everybody. But we don't say

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Speaker 4: those things to anyone else. So black people are constantly

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Speaker 4: being attacked by an American paradigm that's locked us in

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Speaker 4: a black identity, which is an identity crisis for them.

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Speaker 4: It makes them schizophrenic. They have no idea where to

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Speaker 4: put us. But with music. That music is all of ours,

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Speaker 4: rock and roll, punk, metal, all of ours. So why

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Speaker 4: are we excluded from country and see being seen as

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Speaker 4: rock and rollers? Why is little Richard demanding that even

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Speaker 4: while he's passing away and can't make a living, can't

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Speaker 4: pay his rent, And we have Lisa Cortez make that

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Speaker 4: great documentary, but we shouldn't have to do that after

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Speaker 4: they pass away. We should be working toward that right now,

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Speaker 4: to destroy those things that are destroying us.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna ask, you know, we talk about all

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Speaker 2: the time, but now it seems like it's.

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Speaker 1: A lot different.

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Speaker 2: We always say that we have to support our own

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Speaker 2: support our own movies, but from hearing from you, it

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Speaker 2: seems like you're saying that we don't have the same

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Speaker 2: marketing dollars. So a lot of times, a lot of

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Speaker 2: our people don't even know our movies are out when

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Speaker 2: it comes to you know, the Book of Clarence that

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Speaker 2: just recently came out, or even the Color Purple that

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Speaker 2: you know, we don't get the same amount of marketing

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Speaker 2: dollars that an action box office.

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Speaker 1: Movie Orgin that's coming out. I just knew it was

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Speaker 1: outside of the I think it was the Golden Globes

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Speaker 1: passing out flyers for Origin, which is insane. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: what are you going to say?

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Speaker 2: So I was asking it. So it doesn't necessarily mean

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Speaker 2: that we're not supporting. It's a lot of times we're

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Speaker 2: not aware of some of the stuff that's actually happened

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Speaker 2: that's what it seems like that you're saying that. It's

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Speaker 2: not the fact that we don't want to support.

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Speaker 1: Or we can't support.

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Speaker 2: It's the fact that, you know, we're saying that we

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Speaker 2: don't hear about it. We don't have the same promotion,

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Speaker 2: We don't know. It's not on our mind mind every

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Speaker 2: ten minutes like some of these other movies are.

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Speaker 4: You know, often that can be the case, but it's

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Speaker 4: also not the level of sophistication that we deserve. They're

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Speaker 4: not putting the marketing dollars into how they present it

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Speaker 4: to us of a level of importance, allowing us to

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Speaker 4: sort of have the same types of ability to take

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Speaker 4: it in in a way that says, not only is important,

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Speaker 4: we know it's important because look at how well that

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Speaker 4: it's presented. We depend a lot on word of mouth,

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Speaker 4: and black people have the least amount of time to

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Speaker 4: watch movies and these types of things. We're doing so

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Speaker 4: many things all at once. Sometime all you want to

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Speaker 4: do is go home and watch the game. You don't

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Speaker 4: want to step out the door. And yet we do

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Speaker 4: support the film and television and the books that people

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Speaker 4: are doing.

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Speaker 3: We're great readers.

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Speaker 4: We buy books and all these other things we're willing

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Speaker 4: to go to to a lot of things. It says

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Speaker 4: that we're thirteen percent of this population and many of

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Speaker 4: us are incarcerated, many of us are on huge burdens

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Speaker 4: that have nothing that take our numbers down. What they're

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Speaker 4: not doing is promoting to white audiences.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think this last question?

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Speaker 2: Why do you think they pick certain movies to do that?

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Speaker 4: On?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: Like we talked about a couple of movies, but then

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Speaker 2: I'm watching the game the other night and I see

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Speaker 2: the Bob Marley movie and I see that prime time,

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Speaker 2: So it's you know, it's like, well, why do you

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Speaker 2: promote this one and then not.

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Speaker 1: All of them?

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Speaker 2: You know, it was just always a thought to me.

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Speaker 4: But it's a great thought envy, because the truth is

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Speaker 4: a lot of white people embraced Bob Martin. When they

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Speaker 4: go down to tour the tourists, they put that on

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Speaker 4: and if you know it, you know, they know him

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Speaker 4: almost better than we do. A lot of people don't

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Speaker 4: know that he's the son of a British officer, he's mixed,

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Speaker 4: you know, they don't know that about Bob Marley. We

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Speaker 4: don't know about him. They should do a movie about him.

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Speaker 4: They should advertise it to everything. That's what they should do,

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Speaker 4: like they did Black Panther. What they won't do is

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Speaker 4: something that they don't value. They won't do it to that,

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Speaker 4: and they've already made that calculation. Then that's what you're seeing,

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Speaker 4: and you can tell in the amount of power that's

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Speaker 4: put behind it and where it's going. Black people shouldn't

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Speaker 4: have to always save everybody, including us. We should have

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Speaker 4: a right to sometime make choices based on whether we

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Speaker 4: want to see something. They're giving an opportunity to say

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Speaker 4: yes or no, and we are not.

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Speaker 1: American fiction explores so much of what we're talking about

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Speaker 1: right now. I watched it last night. Very interesting film.

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Speaker 1: What is it about? That's the obvious question for the

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Speaker 1: people who haven't seen.

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Speaker 4: So cour Jefferson is the writer director. He's a very

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Speaker 4: accomplished writer. He wrote and with Damon lindelof the Watchmen

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Speaker 4: series that we see with Regina King. They put a

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Speaker 4: whole reparation storyline in. It's because the Great Court Jefferson

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Speaker 4: was there on it and really strong.

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Speaker 3: Stable.

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Speaker 4: Let's just say writers, you know a writer's room that

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Speaker 4: could talk to it. And Damon Lindeloff has right to

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Speaker 4: include that, so he won the Emmy for that. He's

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Speaker 4: been writing on Succession. He's done Late Night, but he

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Speaker 4: hadn't directed, so he he says the story that he

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Speaker 4: suffered a great defeat. He was trying to do a

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Speaker 4: series that didn't make it. He was so heartbroken during

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty. He's a reader, so he started reading book

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Speaker 4: and he read person for Everett's Erasure. This is based

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Speaker 4: on Perceonval Evertt's amazing book Eraser, And he said, I

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Speaker 4: can see this as a film, and so he put

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Speaker 4: his mind to that, and then he thought the whole

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Speaker 4: time he's writing it, he heard Jeffrey Wright's voice and

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Speaker 4: he wrote Jeffrey Wright once he was finished and said,

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Speaker 4: you know, I think this is you. I hope that

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Speaker 4: you like the script, and I have no plan b.

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey right at the time was grieving his mother, the

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Speaker 4: loss of his mother, and that's what also Core Jefferson

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Speaker 4: had gone through. They're both men who were raised by

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Speaker 4: women and loved their mothers. And so Jeffrey Wright didn't

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Speaker 4: get back right away, but eventually got back and said,

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Speaker 4: you know what, let's see, let's try this out. It's

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Speaker 4: a magnificent script. It's funny on the page, which is

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Speaker 4: hard to do to laugh out loud. He did it well,

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Speaker 4: and so he got his first choice there and he

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Speaker 4: started and he had a list and all his first

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Speaker 4: choice you see in the movie I Am one of Them.

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Speaker 4: Coraline plays the love interests of Jeffrey Wright's character Monk.

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Speaker 4: Monk is an author who wants to be seen as

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Speaker 4: an author and not a black author. He's in the

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Speaker 4: Black session, but he's like, why am I not up

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Speaker 4: there with everyone else?

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Speaker 3: Why do I have to be in this section?

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Speaker 4: I don't think he would complain if he was there

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Speaker 4: and the African American section, but just being the African

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Speaker 4: American session section is he feels dehumanized. He feels like

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Speaker 4: he's not on par with his contemporaries. And that's what

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Speaker 4: the story is about. It's about a man who's discontented.

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Speaker 4: And I think in midlife we can see and be

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Speaker 4: some time really restless with how our life has panned

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Speaker 4: out thus far. And some people can shift or pivot

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Speaker 4: and be all right with it. Other people are like no,

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Speaker 4: and they raise hell and they want to do something

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Speaker 4: that totally turns it on his head and he does,

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Speaker 4: and that's what the story is about. I play Coraline,

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Speaker 4: his love And now I gotta say real quick that

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Speaker 4: this the movie at first was called fuck. The title

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Speaker 4: was fucked.

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Speaker 1: Oh like the book.

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Speaker 4: Yes, okay, that movie was called fuck. So there we

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Speaker 4: were filming it thinking it was fuck. But so when

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Speaker 4: it came to me and they said, this director wants

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Speaker 4: to speak to you. He thinks he'd be great for

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Speaker 4: this role. You always want to be invited. It's wonderful

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Speaker 4: to be invited to something. And I looked and it's

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Speaker 4: Jeffrey Wright is the lead character, and you play his

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Speaker 4: love interest.

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Speaker 3: And I saw the word fuck on it. I said,

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Speaker 3: my god, this is my nine and a.

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Speaker 4: Half weeks be like Branda, We're gonna be in blue Light,

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Speaker 4: just having sex, eating grapes and drinking wine. Talking about

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Speaker 4: deep stuff is fab I've waited my whole life and

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Speaker 4: me start doing my ad work.

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Speaker 1: Nah, what like that?

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Speaker 3: You know, I get to snuggle on him and you know,

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Speaker 3: hump a little bit, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, you know, I just finished imply, you know, you know,

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Speaker 4: to rub you know, lotion on myself. But other than that, now,

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Speaker 4: but I was excited because he not only invited me

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Speaker 4: to play, but I knew that I was being asked

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Speaker 4: to play against somebody admired, and he was probably only

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Speaker 4: asking me because he thought that when you go to

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Speaker 4: the majors and you're in you know, a major league,

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Speaker 4: you know team that you yourself or hit her, or

417
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Speaker 4: you a runner or this, and you can be counted on.

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Speaker 4: And so I felt like, yeah, I'm in my class,

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Speaker 4: heavyweight class. That's where I'm supposed to be.

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Speaker 1: Random question about it detail because you just mentioned it.

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Speaker 1: We was watching it last night and after it was

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Speaker 1: implied that y'all had just slept together, and I go older.

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Speaker 1: I said to mar they're implying that they just slept together.

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Speaker 1: And she was like, yeah, he's getting dressed. She'sutting lotion

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Speaker 1: on her hand, and you just said that too. What

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Speaker 1: what what is the lotion on the hand for?

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Speaker 4: When no women come up to me, it's say we love.

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Speaker 4: We thought that was one of the best sex scenes

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Speaker 4: we ever saw. I said, what sex scene? You know afterwards,

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Speaker 4: when you put the lotion on your hands. They liked

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Speaker 4: the efficiency of that.

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Speaker 1: Hand after I never thought about it.

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Speaker 4: She's washed up and she's putting lotions on her hand

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Speaker 4: to show that, you know, not they've done something.

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Speaker 3: But she's yeah, she's just clean.

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Speaker 4: She's clean, she got off the shower, she's done her thing,

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00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 4: and she's backing. You know, listen, it takes Look, I

438
00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:58,920
Speaker 4: don't know why I was ready to haunt the man.

439
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 1: Do you hear? What is a detailed women?

440
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:02,159
Speaker 4: Know?

441
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,160
Speaker 1: Clearly? Yeah? Yeah?

442
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 4: Especially I think again it's a mature relationship. We don't

443
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,600
Speaker 4: need to see him going in and bucking his back and

444
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:11,200
Speaker 4: doing all this. This is ain't Jason Lyric.

445
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,160
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. We grown. That implies enough.

446
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 4: And then we get on with the discussion about not

447
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,880
Speaker 4: love so much but liking and being sort of saying,

448
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 4: you know, there's is there symbiotic relationship here?

449
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 3: Do we we feel the chemistry?

450
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: Is that?

451
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,840
Speaker 3: Okay? That's mature. I think people need to see that

452
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 3: more often.

453
00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,840
Speaker 1: Why Why did the title turn on American fiction? Then?

454
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:34,160
Speaker 1: From fu Well?

455
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 4: Apparently he was really strong on that court was like, no,

456
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:37,960
Speaker 4: that's what it is. You know, I just got to

457
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,960
Speaker 4: stand by it. And then they started cutting it and

458
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 4: they said, look here, whenever we put it in, you know,

459
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 4: this is when the all those people start to get

460
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 4: involved in marketing, and we put that word fucking porn

461
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:52,240
Speaker 4: comes up all the time. They wanted to be synonymous

462
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 4: with porn. And he said, you know what, let me

463
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 4: think about it. So he says, he went and you know,

464
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,399
Speaker 4: spoke a little Ganja, thought about it and came up

465
00:20:58,400 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 4: with a few.

466
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,440
Speaker 3: American fiction was the one chose.

467
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: You know. They told me that about my first book

468
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: because I wanted to name my first book, I Don't

469
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 1: give a Fuck and neither should you a self help

470
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 1: guide on how not to give a fuck. And they

471
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 1: told me that a book like that would never sell.

472
00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,400
Speaker 1: You could never have the title fuck. And then Mark

473
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 1: uh Mark Marin comes out with the subtle art and

474
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 1: not giving the fuck and has sold millions of copies international.

475
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: So there you go.

476
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 3: I think your instincts were right on. But Fear's fear.

477
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 4: Did they make that based on solely the writing or

478
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,520
Speaker 4: were they actually factoring.

479
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:30,480
Speaker 1: They told me wouldn't sell color.

480
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 3: There you go, different person.

481
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 4: We're always having to go through some kind of you know,

482
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,600
Speaker 4: thing that we don't understand, we maybe can't see now.

483
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:44,360
Speaker 4: And as powerful as you are in the world, they

484
00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 4: will always lay that on you.

485
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,399
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons I push back and named it. Well,

486
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 1: I didn't push back, but I named the Black privilege

487
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:53,640
Speaker 1: because I knew the reason that I couldn't say fuck

488
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,880
Speaker 1: was because I said black privilege and still sold millions

489
00:21:56,920 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 1: of copies. So there you go.

490
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 4: I mean, but I mean we would never know, and

491
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 4: you know, you could start it off the whole, the whole.

492
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:05,479
Speaker 3: Kick to right.

493
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, So what does the title of American fiction mean

494
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 1: to the movie?

495
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:13,199
Speaker 4: You think, so American fiction being not true or you know,

496
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 4: there's fact fiction and there's non fact nonfiction which is true.

497
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 4: What is the American fiction that's all around us the

498
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 4: definition of our lives around the America's definition of us.

499
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 4: Black people have had to carry that weight our entire

500
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:39,680
Speaker 4: time since we arrived in America, throughout the enslavement, after emancipation,

501
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 4: and the reconstruction through civil rights, and now there is

502
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 4: a fiction around us. But that fiction is locked with

503
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 4: American exceptionalism. So it's not just the the idea that

504
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 4: black people are working inside of an identity crisis. It

505
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 4: was put upon them by people who created the nigger

506
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:02,440
Speaker 4: and we've adopted their language of our oppressors. That's when

507
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 4: it's successful. That's when you know, it works. I don't

508
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 4: know any other people that have done that as successful

509
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 4: they do. You know a lot of Latinos who go

510
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 4: around calling themselves went back fun.

511
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 3: We're I feel for.

512
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 4: Us, you know, because I see the strength and sort

513
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 4: of trying to take that word and reframe it. But

514
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 4: can you reframe something that was meant to damage you

515
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 4: from the core? Has it's done its job the minute

516
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,080
Speaker 4: you start to reframe it towards yourself and your children,

517
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 4: and then they carry it on and then the world

518
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:42,040
Speaker 4: adopts it for themselves. I don't know, but that's what

519
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 4: American fiction is. Jeffrey Wright is playing a man who's

520
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 4: saying that I am not that version. There's telling him

521
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 4: that you're not writing books that are black enough. But

522
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 4: who are they to say that he's not black enough?

523
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 4: He's black. He's an author. That's his book that's black enough.

524
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 4: They didn't say that about our music. They just put

525
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:05,959
Speaker 4: Elvis up and he started shaking them legs.

526
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, right.

527
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: So that's what attracted you to this film, how strong

528
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: and how powerful it is.

529
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 4: Absolutely in the writing por Jefferson is a modern master,

530
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 4: and he's made for this moment. His road to being

531
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 4: here was through being a journalist. He was a white

532
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 4: house journalist, so he didn't get here just overnight, and

533
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 4: I think that helped him. I think that he didn't

534
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,640
Speaker 4: have he had different voices in his head every time

535
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 4: he was creating something. And he said he didn't want

536
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 4: to do journalism anymore because they had him on the

537
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,560
Speaker 4: race beat. I want to write about tray Tavon Martin,

538
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 4: You want to write about this? He's like, you know,

539
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 4: I'm a full person. I can write about more than racism.

540
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,400
Speaker 4: I know it's very important, but I have other things

541
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 4: to say. So a lot of people have said that

542
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 4: that they've been forced into a position of having to

543
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 4: carry that weight and they're happy to, but they don't

544
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 4: want to always have to speak to it. Can't we

545
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 4: have something that we just you know, talk about. There's

546
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 4: tons of movies where they're not doing any of that.

547
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,240
Speaker 4: And you know, at one time I was married to

548
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 4: a writer and he was He's the first African.

549
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 3: American to write a movie that made over one hundred

550
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 3: million dollars. He wrote Eraser.

551
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 4: Wow, right, you sometimes just want to write Eraser, you know,

552
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 4: but that's not if you come at all from a

553
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 4: racial paradise, you know, conversation, they will always try to

554
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 4: put that on you, even when you're trying to talk

555
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:29,720
Speaker 4: about something else.

556
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,680
Speaker 1: You said something that made me think about the N word,

557
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 1: Like I always tell myself, I'm gonna stop using that

558
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: word because I never use it as a term of endearment.

559
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: I use it. I use it as the oppressor, you know,

560
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: I do. So that's one of the read I got.

561
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:44,199
Speaker 1: I don't I don't feel the need to hold on

562
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: to that, you know.

563
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 4: I think we've forgotten who we are. And I think

564
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,080
Speaker 4: when we remember, we understand that maybe we've been brought

565
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 4: across the ocean to make this case, to live these

566
00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 4: lives so we can create a better tomorrow. Today we're

567
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 4: having conversations about voting, We're having conversations about the next election.

568
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 4: And I always remember that black women are the marines

569
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 4: on the front line, but they don't want to always

570
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 4: have to be. That's where men are supposed to be.

571
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 4: They're supposed to see the clear and present danger and

572
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 4: stop the wolf at the door from hurting the most

573
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,359
Speaker 4: vulnerable people.

574
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 3: That's what it is. Black people are tired of that.

575
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm.

576
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 4: Going to do it I said, what's your choice. Could

577
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 4: have should have, would have worked toward that. But right

578
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 4: now you can see there's a danger at the door.

579
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,120
Speaker 4: That wolf stopped them. You're a warrior, you're a king.

580
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 4: You're supposed to do that. That's what we were, That's

581
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: what we have to do right now. Don't want to

582
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 4: hate it, but that's what we're doing. I don't want

583
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 4: to have to keep talking about these things. I'm an actress.

584
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 4: I would love to be a river run through it.

585
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 4: Remember when there was another movie that Meryl Streep did

586
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 4: where she gets in and she's fighting somebody in a

587
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 4: canoe taking her family. Love it, Let's do it. No,

588
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 4: you're going to have to do this. Erica, your dark

589
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 4: skin and you're napy headed. You will not be Zendeia.

590
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 4: You will not be halle Berry anytime soon. You won't

591
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 4: even be able to cross over. Thank God for Court Jefferson,

592
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 4: who saw me as being delicate and put me in

593
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 4: more in a position to be desired. I needed that

594
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 4: black man to step up to create the space to

595
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 4: see me as a woman who could just chill and

596
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 4: drink wine and have somebody seduce her and she seduce him.

597
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 4: I get to drop my tomatoes. You see, that's called

598
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: meeting cute lead me cute cute like Meg Ryan and

599
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,679
Speaker 4: Tom Hanks does a black man saw that and he

600
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 4: took somebody who's usually hired as the hammers, the ham

601
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Jeffrey Right is a hammer.

602
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: I'm a hammer. You bring me in.

603
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 4: It's like, what do you need done? He's like your hammer, Erica.

604
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 4: But I also see you as being desirable and beautiful

605
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 4: and delicate, and we need some of those muscles.

606
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 3: Work that out here.

607
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 4: And so I lay in the cut a bit and

608
00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,719
Speaker 4: do a little less of what I've been asked to

609
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 4: do for over four decades.

610
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,159
Speaker 1: The movie got me to think, and how you know,

611
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: how hard is it to sell things of substance in Hollywood?

612
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: You know? Because then, and you know, I got me

613
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 1: to thinking about you as a creative because everything that

614
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: you do is of substance and it ha intension behind it.

615
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: So how hard is it to sell things of substance

616
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:19,159
Speaker 1: in Hollywood?

617
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 4: Well, for somebody like me, it's near impossible, because they're

618
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 4: always gonna rate you as what you've done before, and

619
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 4: if you haven't leveraged that power yet, they don't think

620
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 4: you have it. So I needed somebody like you, Charlottagne

621
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 4: and Kevin Hart to hire us the color farm part

622
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 4: of me, who's got a company, to create something and

623
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 4: get the opportunities because you're in rooms that I'm not.

624
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 4: So we need men mostly who have those opportunities, have

625
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 4: those conversations with cigars and cognac to bring up the

626
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 4: women and say, you know what, I'm going to make

627
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 4: sure that I bring them to the table. They're always

628
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 4: with me because you don't have those opportunities.

629
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: Which is so fucked up, because we're in nowhere and

630
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: it is brilliant. I mean, like not even clothes.

631
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: You certainly are.

632
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 4: The thing is that you know that there's a there's

633
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 4: a wide sort of palette that we're missing if we

634
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,120
Speaker 4: don't bring our women in. And again that's why I

635
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 4: say black men are supposed to protect the most vulnerable.

636
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 4: They're also the lift and elevate them and if done well,

637
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 4: we can change the world. Look at what thirteen percent

638
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 4: have done thus far. We are the world. We had

639
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 4: white culture, European culture impressed upon us. The world chooses

640
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 4: our culture as their own. That's phenomenal, that's great power.

641
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 4: And there used to be a time where black men

642
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,080
Speaker 4: want you want to be cool like them, and they

643
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 4: became so on a dark and kind of angry, materialistic

644
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 4: and just grabby, grabby, and now I'll do this and selfish.

645
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 4: What is that we weren't doing that James Baldman, Malcolm X.

646
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 4: You saw him at the door. That's the famous picture.

647
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that I'm not a strong woman not

648
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 4: able to protect myself. I certainly most we will. And

649
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:02,240
Speaker 4: I have no children on my own, but I will

650
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,480
Speaker 4: protect yours as my own.

651
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 3: I vote for the village. So that's what we need.

652
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 4: We need that whole thing to come together, because I

653
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 4: think if we start thinking and having conferences about how

654
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 4: do we get past this, how can we stop looking

655
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 4: at our great players die like dogs and not say anything.

656
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 4: We have beautiful people like Whitney Houston and MJ and

657
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 4: all these people just passing away.

658
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 3: Those are generals.

659
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 4: We can't just come together when there's George Floyd and

660
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 4: use them as props. We have to come together before

661
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 4: to say how and only can we protect you? How

662
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 4: can we strengthen you? How can we give you financial

663
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 4: management training? How can we show you what you How

664
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 4: can we say that your mental health not only matters,

665
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 4: but you can tell us when you're not winning, when

666
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 4: you're under stressed because you don't have the dress to

667
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 4: go to that place, and you're ashamed and embarrassed to

668
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 4: admit to people what you don't have. We need that

669
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 4: for our people in our community. And it's not just

670
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 4: us that we're lifting. We're lifting everybody that's that's Latino,

671
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 4: there's all of that. The Asians are now pushing forward.

672
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 4: They got the Gold House. Check out what they've done

673
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 4: with the Gold House.

674
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: What is that? They say, Well, they know how to

675
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: support each other. We do too. Segregation, we had to

676
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 3: support each other.

677
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 4: That didn't die just because we got blown across the

678
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 4: you know, like a diaspora in America. But what happened

679
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 4: is we stopped talking to each other and realizing that

680
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 4: we need to support each other no matter where we live.

681
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 4: And so we need more of that. And black men

682
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 4: need to lead the way you are and you are

683
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 4: points of power that we are not.

684
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 3: Still.

685
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 4: But black women are often told you're the ones saving

686
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 4: us ninety percent y'all voted no, no, no, no, no, no no,

687
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 4: don't do that to black men. They need to be

688
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 4: reminded that they put us in those slave dungeons because

689
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 4: they wanted you to hear the screams of the women

690
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 4: and the children and not be able to help them,

691
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 4: and that would break your spirit before you got on

692
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 4: the boat. And then they put them out and humiliated them,

693
00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 4: raped them in front of the women and children. So

694
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 4: the women sought, no, I'm going to protect black men.

695
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 4: I'm not going to say anything. And they they did

696
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 4: that and often treated their children so hard that they

697
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 4: didn't people don't think that we have a core. They

698
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 4: did that to because they were losing their children all

699
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 4: the time. So they created this hard coding. And then

700
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: we have conversations now online about whether black women are

701
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 4: too masculine, how dare they? Where were we supposed to

702
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 4: be this idea of feminism that they want. We're supposed

703
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 4: to curl up and relax on the white couch with

704
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 4: miss Kardashian or power to them. But when was that

705
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 4: supposed to happen. We're doing that and we're saving the

706
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 4: village and we're trying to push forward on ourselves. And

707
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 4: you see it when you see Stacey Abrams. You see

708
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 4: it when you see Anna Pressley, you see it when

709
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,640
Speaker 4: Katanji Brown we need more of that. What black men

710
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,680
Speaker 4: need to understand that their place is not behind and

711
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 4: this it is in front because we can do it together.

712
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 4: And we were raising your black children. That's our goal

713
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 4: in the world, not just black children. These children are

714
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 4: markers of the world of how high up is. They

715
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 4: are the standard, so let's act like it.

716
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: You know, in American fiction, the one thing I wish

717
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: that they would have explored more was why people liked

718
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: the book Fuck, Because like when y'all had the argument

719
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: at the table, I thought you was about to tell

720
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: him why you liked it and he was about to

721
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: have a revelation. But why don't you think they explored

722
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: why people actually liked Fuck more because that is a

723
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: part of us too, as black people, Like we can

724
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 1: be righteous, hand ratchet and we can blend the two.

725
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 4: Maybe that's what she dug was maybe the mindlessness of it.

726
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 4: You're right, they should have had that conversation in it.

727
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,280
Speaker 4: Right now we're left to sort of to think that

728
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 4: Jeffrey Wright is writing great novels.

729
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 3: Who knows. They could suck.

730
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 4: They could be intellectual, they could be they could be

731
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 4: like a professor that's not really accessible. Remember they said

732
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 4: he's closed off, So maybe his novels are closed off.

733
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 4: Maybe when he allowed himself to go a little crazy

734
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 4: during his you know, his his anger moment where he

735
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 4: writes the novel, that's the closest he got to being

736
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 4: open and writing characters that allowed him to be because

737
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 4: he didn't have you know, he didn't have any the

738
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 4: stakes in the game that he puts on the other ones.

739
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 4: You're right, we don't have the conversation. You can send

740
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 4: that complaint to court.

741
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 3: Jefferson. I can't only speak so far for myself.

742
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: Because I feel like, you know, well, I'm gonna ask you,

743
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,200
Speaker 1: do you think it's possible to put medicine in the

744
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: candy to find that balance between substance and the bullshit?

745
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: Because that's what I was hoping he did ultimately, or

746
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: that was the conclusion of the movie.

747
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 4: I think that that's where black people are, people who

748
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 4: are clever do all the time, is that they make

749
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 4: it entertaining, yet you're seeing something that could be really

750
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: like questionable. Dave Chappelle does it all the time. Absolutely,

751
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 4: our comedians do it all the time. So I believe

752
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 4: that smugglers are important. And they did that, especially when

753
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 4: they had the black codes on and they also when

754
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 4: they were blacklisting Jewish writers, they had to, you know,

755
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 4: be under aliases. They did all the time when they

756
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 4: wanted to talk about things in the seventies, and they

757
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 4: you thought you were seeing something different, but it was

758
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 4: really just a different sort of way to go into

759
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 4: a subject that was maybe more radioactive. So great creators

760
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 4: have done it all the time. Black people have had

761
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 4: to do it.

762
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: But yeah, have you ever an attempted to do it?

763
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 1: Or that what you do with the comic books, Oh,

764
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: that's what you want to do with the comic books and.

765
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 3: The comic books, that's exactly it.

766
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 4: So if you look to Concrete Park, which I did

767
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 4: with Tony Perrie, the writer I'm talking about, you'll see

768
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,000
Speaker 4: that in there, You'll see how beautiful it is. Frankly,

769
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 4: you'll see how these gorgeous, beautiful, bodacious bodies are you know,

770
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 4: just made for you know, being I don't know, in

771
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 4: that in the place where you have black nerds and

772
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 4: white nerds and nerds I shouldn't say black nerds' is

773
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 4: nerds overall you'll dig it. But what they're talking about is,

774
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 4: you know, or since it's poor, its youth off to

775
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 4: another planet. Will they where they reproduce the violence and

776
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 4: the hostility and the racism, or will they make something new?

777
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: And that's Concrete Park. But look at Star Trek, same thing.

778
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 3: You know.

779
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 4: Jane Roddenberry wanted to talk about race and those types

780
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 4: of things. So he made a very colorful, diverse cast

781
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 4: that is on the starship Enterprise and where are they

782
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 4: going to seek new life, new civilization, to boldly go

783
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 4: where no man has gone before, which was his model

784
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 4: for how do we get through this world being different? Well,

785
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 4: let's go someplace where everyone's different than humans and let's

786
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 4: see how they figured that out with their prime. You know,

787
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 4: the thing that they can is that they can't they

788
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 4: can't interrupt the new civilizations. They're not supposed to disrupt them.

789
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,799
Speaker 4: They're not supposed to come in and change things, which

790
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 4: is difficult because everywhere he went he was tested.

791
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 3: We were tested. Uhura Ah, you know all that you

792
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 3: needed that?

793
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, Eric, I think you're just brilliant.

794
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,319
Speaker 1: I love everything you do, Like finding Tamika was did

795
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: we do big pay back before finding to Meka? Yeah,

796
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: we did a big first, big pay back. We did

797
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 1: that with the Black Effect. Yes, phenomenal podcast that turned

798
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 1: into a documentary, Yes, right, and then Finding Tamika that

799
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: we put out on Audible, myself and Kevin Hart. You

800
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,879
Speaker 1: want a Webby for Best Podcast Series, Documentary, Audible's Best

801
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: in True Crime, and you won the DuPont Award for

802
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 1: Excellence in Journalism. How did that make you feel? Talk

803
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 1: about the impact of Finding to me.

804
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 4: Well, let's correct that we won. Yes, we wanted together.

805
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 4: It was a great collaboration. We wouldn't have gotten that

806
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 4: far without the power and strength that you provided and

807
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 4: Kevin provided and the leveraged that that matters, and certainly

808
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 4: to the Houston family were allowing us to be intimate

809
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 4: with him and tell that story.

810
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 3: What was the question?

811
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:48,800
Speaker 1: What was the impact of that? How was the impact?

812
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: How did it make you feel?

813
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 3: It was a huge So there's a black and missing foundation.

814
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,440
Speaker 4: They've been doing this type of work for a long time,

815
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 4: and it helped tell their story and they had been

816
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 4: featured in another documentary. But it also talked about this

817
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 4: thing that up until that point people didn't really know

818
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 4: what it's about, which is the white women's missing syndrome.

819
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 4: Missing white women's syndrome. Why do we do that. We're

820
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 4: talking about that now, the fiction that everybody, if you

821
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 4: get missing, everyone's gonna come to find you. No, but

822
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 4: they're not, And they're really gonna not come to find you.

823
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,400
Speaker 4: If your dark skinned and all that other stuff and

824
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 4: live in a certain area, they're not gonna find you.

825
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 4: They're not even gonna find you if you're cute, because

826
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 4: Tamika was beautiful in lighter color. She's at the background

827
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: being Ethiopian and mixed like that. But they will find

828
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 4: that blonde haired, blue eyed girl and our obsession with that,

829
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 4: So the impact was even explaining a little bit what

830
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,280
Speaker 4: it was. But we made a neo noir ghost story.

831
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 4: We knew immediately because you know, you want to make

832
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,960
Speaker 4: sure that the audience knows they're invited. That we had

833
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 4: to frame it in a way that we could build audience,

834
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: that we could build awareness. That's your mandate is to

835
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 4: create something that the entire because if you're not using

836
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 4: the power, well then you're just placing it within one category.

837
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 4: But no, we knew that we had to make it entertaining.

838
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,520
Speaker 4: So the neo noir ghost story was because Tamika kept

839
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 4: showing up as a ghost in her own story. And

840
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 4: neo noir is a genre that can actually encapsulate all

841
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 4: those different things. She's the fem fatal, She's the person

842
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 4: we're trying to find. She's the naive. I'm the naive

843
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 4: in it, the narrator going through. She's also the detective.

844
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 4: She's still looking to find herself in the world, and

845
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 4: she helped them, the law enforcement, find her through strangers

846
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 4: who came and said, Tamika visited me, and she's here,

847
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 4: and it found her. So I said, what can do that?

848
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 4: No Noir is a genre that can do that.

849
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: So we did that.

850
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 4: We just put the things that were there, but you

851
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,239
Speaker 4: got to be aware of them. And I think that

852
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,479
Speaker 4: that helps to talk about more about the sophisticated level

853
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 4: than it rose to.

854
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 3: I think that that helped change things.

855
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 4: The way that we did it created a way to

856
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 4: talk about something, to say, look at how popular that was,

857
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:05,399
Speaker 4: and that was a black woman's story that you didn't

858
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,440
Speaker 4: want to put nationally. But we did it, and we

859
00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 4: did it several years after we knew the end of

860
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,799
Speaker 4: her case, so we didn't even need the mystery of that.

861
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 3: We just found We just were looking for her. Who

862
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 3: is she?

863
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 4: And all of this because We know that black girls

864
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 4: don't have to Black girls and women don't have to

865
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 4: go missing for us not to see them, so we

866
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 4: looked for her.

867
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 3: That was important. I think that changed things. But also.

868
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 4: The fact that black women and men could go missing

869
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,600
Speaker 4: and now there's an awareness about the lack of support

870
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,279
Speaker 4: that comes to them. Now we can talk about it

871
00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 4: mainstream and people. When we were in that room at

872
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:48,040
Speaker 4: the DuPont Columbia Awards what are they called that managed

873
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 4: the radio stations program directors came up and said I

874
00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 4: did that and now I won't. They passed on those emails. Wow,

875
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 4: that's what it's changing. It needs to change behavior. Also,

876
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,400
Speaker 4: White House, the White House started looking at different designation.

877
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 4: We went to the White House with Rebecca and the

878
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 4: Black and Missing Foundation and they started looking at how

879
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,880
Speaker 4: their designated is runaways too often actually most of the time. Also,

880
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 4: the Amber alert. There's an Amber alert and there's one

881
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,439
Speaker 4: for older people, but nothing in between. Why isn't there.

882
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 4: So they're looking to change legislation and bring a new

883
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 4: legislation or to partner with people who are doing that

884
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 4: to push it forward. That's the change. The best change

885
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 4: are some things that are systemic. Mind change is huge.

886
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:34,760
Speaker 4: But we got all of the above.

887
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: And I remember you saying something on Finding Tamika where

888
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: you said, anybody who helped Tamika with this case, they

889
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: were elevated, like their careers and things were elevated. And

890
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: so when I look at the success that Finding Tamika had,

891
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: all the awards it won, I'm looking at you know,

892
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,879
Speaker 1: I feel like you're getting your flowers in a real way.

893
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 1: And it's just like, Okay, Tamikamika wasn't playing. No, she

894
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:57,479
Speaker 1: wasn't playing at all.

895
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: She wasn't playing, and she was a strong entity.

896
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 4: Now. Look, I come from a religious background. I'm not

897
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 4: religious myself, but I am spiritual. And I asked her

898
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,799
Speaker 4: please not to visit me. I said, I see you're

899
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 4: doing that, but I'm not. I'm too vulnerable.

900
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 1: Please listen.

901
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: She did. She actually visited. J. T. A.

902
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:18,920
Speaker 4: Green, who did the audio, was fantastic with it, and

903
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 4: she said he actually they now would say that. She

904
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,360
Speaker 4: came behind me and put her hands on my shoulders

905
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 4: and I could feel her there. I said, are you're

906
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 4: freaking kidding me? Oh, she don't do that to me.

907
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 4: I don't need that, you know what I mean? So

908
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 4: you know that it's a beautiful thing. But yes, elevated, Yes,

909
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 4: I can say that this has been a magnificent years.

910
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 4: But also it's because I'm doing something that people believe

911
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 4: in me. They're asking me to come because they think

912
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 4: I have something to offer, but they also are not

913
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 4: coming the door questioning whether I can do it or not.

914
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 3: You didn't question that.

915
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 4: You just call me and say, Queen, you want to do

916
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 4: a reparations podcast. I said, okay, I mean you know,

917
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 4: and then you said, you know, remember that thing.

918
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 3: I got a deal. We do it over here. Done.

919
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 4: I can do the hard work of thinking about how

920
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 4: to get it done. But you've done the hardest work

921
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 4: of building your career so I can get it done,

922
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 4: and then allowing us to do it and giving us

923
00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 4: the freedom not to make mistakes but to blossom. And

924
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 4: I think that when you have that kind of support

925
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 4: in your life, you know, it's like an athlete saying,

926
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,200
Speaker 4: run you can run.

927
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 3: Now you've trained enough. Run I can win if I

928
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 3: can run.

929
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 1: Do awards matter to you because you know, I know

930
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: American Fictua's no question. Yes, yeah, Because American Victuals even

931
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 1: nominated for Best Motion Picture Musical comedy at the Golden

932
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:43,359
Speaker 1: Globes and they talk I saw you on Tammon Hall

933
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: and they're talking about Oscar Bards around your role in

934
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: American fiction. So they do matter, Charle Mane.

935
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 4: I wish they didn't, But this world puts a premium

936
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 4: on people who win awards, and I think if we

937
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:03,240
Speaker 4: can't make content that is uniquely on a black subject,

938
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 4: the subject that has a black person in it, it

939
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 4: has agency, and can't prove that we can make the

940
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 4: dollars that's another award, Box Office and wards, then they'll

941
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 4: keep putting us in the cultural ghetto, and we can't

942
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: afford to be there anymore. So I think that it's

943
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 4: all right for us to shoot for it, but we

944
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 4: need to acknowledge how many people never got those awards

945
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,000
Speaker 4: and we're still inside of that. So if you look

946
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,960
Speaker 4: at the great Felicia Rashad who never got an Emmy,

947
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 4: Patricia Heaton got eight for Everybody Loves Raymond, no shade

948
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:34,959
Speaker 4: to her?

949
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 3: Where's Felicious?

950
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 4: Where's Cecily Tyson before they gave her an honorary Angela Bassett?

951
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: Exactly? Why? What is that?

952
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 4: So? No, those awards matter and people want them because

953
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 4: they think it's going to also help their trajectory of

954
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 4: their work. Lucas said, said it didn't help at all,

955
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 4: said it ruined his career. I think so. I don't

956
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:57,959
Speaker 4: want to speak for him. He's still here to speak

957
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 4: for himself. But I think it was because suddenly pople

958
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 4: didn't want to pay him what he was worth. They

959
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 4: didn't want to Oh, well that next, and I told

960
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:06,240
Speaker 4: you that next you ask him for too much? Really

961
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 4: are we from the great lugassip. So it's I think

962
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 4: Catch twenty two. We need to do to have it.

963
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 4: We shouldn't expect it, and don't be broken hearted if

964
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 4: that happens. The award is the love that you get

965
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 4: from the audience. Every day I go out, whether it's

966
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 4: at the bank or otherwise, I get love from everybody, Jewish, black, white,

967
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 4: all of that, every in between. It doesn't matter the

968
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 4: you know, whether it's a working class, all of that

969
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 4: that's sustain me and I will forever be grateful for that.

970
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 3: That is payment.

971
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 4: And I think that Taraji understood that what she wants,

972
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,839
Speaker 4: what she's earned. We'd like what we earned and we're

973
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 4: demanding it, but we have no way to get there.

974
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:57,840
Speaker 4: And that's frustrating because people think, oh, you're just high

975
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 4: paid spoiled children real artists. Most artists can barely make

976
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:05,719
Speaker 4: enough to get their insurance and that's like twenty four

977
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,919
Speaker 4: to twenty five thousand dollars a year from zag eighty

978
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,280
Speaker 4: nine percent of the union does not work.

979
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 3: So we're spoiled. But it's good enough to call when you.

980
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 4: Need to talk about something that matters to the world,

981
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 4: to get the word out. We're we're your mouthpieces. Shame

982
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,280
Speaker 4: on America that they're in such a way that creatives

983
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 4: could go underfunded, undervalued, but also shame on them for

984
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 4: denying something that they do to a particular class of

985
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 4: people overall, and not understanding that that's not just happening

986
00:46:40,719 --> 00:46:42,440
Speaker 4: to us, if it's happening to you in corporate America,

987
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 4: that is corporate America. You just happen to see what

988
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 4: we do for a living, but none like you might

989
00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:49,280
Speaker 4: see what Hannity does for a living.

990
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 3: Is he spoiled? Are all these pundents spoiled who.

991
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 4: Constantly say, well, you know that's not kitchen table that

992
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 4: we want to go to fly over country. You've flown

993
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 4: over us all the time, but we made it anyway.

994
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,120
Speaker 4: Selling out the back of our car. As you see that.

995
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 4: These men have created whole genres from from Louis Armstrong,

996
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 4: who was an orphan on the street.

997
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 3: In New Orleans. No, we we We not only earned

998
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:18,399
Speaker 3: it all, we deserve it all.

999
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,319
Speaker 1: I asked miss doing this the other day, how many

1000
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: more labors of love do you have in you? Oh? Lord,

1001
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: that's what it feels like, all the labors of love.

1002
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 3: What does she say?

1003
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: I think she said none. She said, I'm pretty sure

1004
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: I don't have any more. I'm done. I feel like that.

1005
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 1: I think that's what she said, right.

1006
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 3: And she's a marketing gene.

1007
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:38,880
Speaker 1: I'm tired. I'm tired.

1008
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's a marketing genius, Nick, she said, marketing genius.

1009
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 4: And she's used all of her her powers, her powers

1010
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:52,120
Speaker 4: for good. She needs more support. We need to understand

1011
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 4: what she's up against. He's even created a place that

1012
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 4: you go to that trains filmmakers. Yeah, it's powerful. But

1013
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 4: who could do that and keep it up? And that's

1014
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 4: why I say, she's a black woman, and he's help

1015
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 4: from black men. She's a black woman who needs help

1016
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 4: from black men who have access to power.

1017
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 3: And that's white America was the children's books.

1018
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 1: What you got there?

1019
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 3: Oh oh yeah, thank you.

1020
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 4: So this when we're talking about books and everything, and

1021
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 4: so my mother wrote a book, Io, so I brought

1022
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 4: one for each of you for your family, your family's library.

1023
00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 3: Rainbow Forest and the Rainbow Forest.

1024
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 4: That's great, Sammy Alexander, excuse me, Samue Alexander the twice

1025
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:32,759
Speaker 4: or from woman.

1026
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 3: I speak about a lot.

1027
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 4: She's a teacher and an educator and that was important

1028
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 4: to her, and I'm helping her while she's eighty two

1029
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 4: years old to get her ideas out there. So that's

1030
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 4: Io showed them the back Charlemagne so they can see.

1031
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 4: That's amazing that Jacob what is the.

1032
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:48,799
Speaker 3: Illustrations name right now?

1033
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:50,280
Speaker 1: Jacob Duncan.

1034
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, Jacob Duncan did it from North Carolina, A nice

1035
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 4: young illustrator did that.

1036
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 3: And then also Grandma's hand. This is a friend. This

1037
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,240
Speaker 3: is the Bill Withers family.

1038
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 4: And so he's passed away, but Grandma's hands, with Grandma's hands,

1039
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 4: he's done a book. And after he's passed away, about it,

1040
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 4: and so I make sure it gets into as many

1041
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,879
Speaker 4: hands as possible, and we build our libraries that way.

1042
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 4: You guys are both all great builders of families and communities.

1043
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 4: So I wanted to make sure you had that my

1044
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:22,880
Speaker 4: mom's book. There you go.

1045
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: I got maybe two more questions, but really one more.

1046
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 1: Nikki Haley said, America is in a racist country, right.

1047
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:30,720
Speaker 1: You think the decision makers in Hollywood believe that.

1048
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 3: I don't know who she was talking to?

1049
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 4: You know what, No, they you know what, they act

1050
00:49:39,120 --> 00:49:41,000
Speaker 4: like there is racism.

1051
00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 3: But that's.

1052
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 4: That's what keeps it going, is that people want to

1053
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 4: act like these are people often that have been the

1054
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 4: most persecuted people on the earth. We can't act like

1055
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 4: it's not there. We can't afford to. And her standing

1056
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:59,160
Speaker 4: that up and not facing it is making her look weak.

1057
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 4: And nobody wants a woman who's weak. They already have that,

1058
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 4: you know, in the negative. But the fact that she's

1059
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:12,120
Speaker 4: taking that stance is especially coming from South Carolina, your

1060
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 4: home state, is disgusting. She should know better. Also, she's

1061
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:22,319
Speaker 4: an East Indian woman, an American. Yes, she knows what's

1062
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:26,919
Speaker 4: behind it. If she doesn't get to be president, it'll

1063
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 4: be because she's not a woman. And also that she's

1064
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 4: not that she's a brown woman, So she can ignore

1065
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 4: that if she wants to. But the party she's going

1066
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 4: to need to help her. Cannot afford to ignore that.

1067
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 2: All right, well, we appreciate you for joining us, as

1068
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 2: Erica Alexander so much to make sure you got there

1069
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: and see American fiction.

1070
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 1: That's right. Make sure you go listen to Finding to

1071
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: Meka on Audible, check out the Big Payback on the

1072
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: Black Effect. iHeartRadio podcast Network, and Erica just about to say,

1073
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 1: keep being brilliant. But you ain't got no choice, that's right.

1074
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: God made you what you.

1075
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 4: Thank you, you know, you know, God running the creekto

1076
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 4: rise and withou help collaboration m all as possible.

1077
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 3: So thank you, Charlemaine, thank you DJ MV. Thank you

1078
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 3: all that you're.

1079
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:09,360
Speaker 4: Doing for the culture and all that you mean to

1080
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 4: us and for giving me this platform this morning.

1081
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: No, thank you for joining us. We appreciate you, Erika Alexander.

1082
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen. It's the Breakfast Club. Good morning, Wake

1083
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: that ass up early in the morning. The Breakfast Club