Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 2: my name is Noah.
Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our
Speaker 3: super producer Dylan the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you
Speaker 3: are you.
Speaker 4: You are here.
Speaker 3: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Guys.
Speaker 3: I almost add the stuff they do not want you
Speaker 3: to know, but that's going to mess up our cadence.
Speaker 4: It's too formal, man to formal.
Speaker 3: It's a little too formal.
Speaker 5: I think contractions only here on the pod, contractions only
Speaker 5: and contracts Tonight is not necessarily a political episode, but
Speaker 5: just so you know going in, this does hinge on
Speaker 5: a specific piece of famous real estate in the United
Speaker 5: States that is often involved with politics.
Speaker 3: Technically, this is also a bit of a food episode.
Speaker 3: Quick question as we're starting off, have either of you
Speaker 3: guys ever visited the White House? Nolan and I were
Speaker 3: talking about this a little off air.
Speaker 4: I've just seen it from like, you know, through the
Speaker 4: gates but I've never taken a tour. I was never invited.
Speaker 3: Well, you went to that protest.
Speaker 4: I was at the protest, the Women's March thing for
Speaker 4: a work related thing. And then yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 4: The day before was the day Trump was inaugurator the
Speaker 4: first time. It was like everything was on fire and
Speaker 4: they were like low flying hellic. I'm not joking. There
Speaker 4: were like newspaper boxes on fire and people like like
Speaker 4: swat people in riot gear and people throwing molotov cocktails
Speaker 4: through windows.
Speaker 3: It was wild.
Speaker 4: And then the Women's March day was quite a contrast.
Speaker 2: What about you and that, Well, we've all been through
Speaker 2: DC for part of our tour years and years ago.
Speaker 2: I remember shooting a video of you ben right outside
Speaker 2: of the White House on the other side of that
Speaker 2: fence that is like shown all the time.
Speaker 3: Where it is legal to film.
Speaker 2: Mm hm oh yeah, that's public property. Totally totally on
Speaker 2: the up and up there. I have been there personally.
Speaker 2: I've not been to the White House. But it's not
Speaker 2: just the White House we're talk about, right, We're talking
Speaker 2: about several different palatial estates across the world.
Speaker 3: Today.
Speaker 2: We're also going to be one of the main reasons
Speaker 2: we're talking about this is because the conspiracyphere lit up
Speaker 2: immediately after the events, will be discussing today with wild claims. Yeah,
Speaker 2: some that are you know, with the Epstein files, with
Speaker 2: the releases of those, they've become less insane perhaps, but
Speaker 2: they're still like on that fringe level because we are
Speaker 2: talking about perhaps eating humans with Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4: This is this is where we're talking about presidential favorite meals.
Speaker 3: This is technically a food episode, so all three of
Speaker 3: us are working are correct, but do be worn, folks.
Speaker 3: As my pal Matt said, this one gets dark. Let's
Speaker 3: stroll over to the White House and figure out some
Speaker 3: backgrounds here. This is our here of the facts part
Speaker 3: is going to be a bunch of I don't know,
Speaker 3: really cool stuff for nerds.
Speaker 4: Let's find out what's for dinner.
Speaker 3: Here are the facts, Okay, folks, As you can imagine,
Speaker 3: whether or not you live in these United States, sixteen
Speaker 3: hundred Pennsylvania Avenue is a big deal. It's where our
Speaker 3: commander in chief technically lives during their time in office,
Speaker 3: and it's an old building. They employ a lot of people.
Speaker 3: Just quick stats, the White House has roughly four hundred
Speaker 3: to five hundred direct staff is what they're called in
Speaker 3: the White House Office, and then they have about ninety
Speaker 3: residents and maintenance workers. So roughly like also, if you
Speaker 3: count the building next door, the Executive Office of the President,
Speaker 3: they have eighteen hundred total personnel. So right now the
Speaker 3: closest numbers we have are from July of twenty twenty six.
Speaker 3: The White House directly employs four hundred and eleven folks.
Speaker 4: Well, I mean, obviously a lot of those folks that
Speaker 4: are in and out of there are working in you know,
Speaker 4: kind of governmental capacities, you know, are part of cabinet
Speaker 4: and things like that. But we're also talking about the
Speaker 4: kind of staff that say, like a palatial estate might
Speaker 4: employ or dare we say a castle.
Speaker 3: You know, in a state, a manor. That's what it is.
Speaker 3: Right Typically, when we imagine someone saying, oh, hey, babe,
Speaker 3: I work at the White House, we might think of
Speaker 3: secret service or high level politicians, cabinet members, kitchen cabinet
Speaker 3: joke on the way, and of course, you know, the
Speaker 3: president of the United States. But no, you make such
Speaker 3: a wonderful point. The reality for a lot of the
Speaker 3: folks here is way less glamorous because this is a big, palatial,
Speaker 3: opulent building. It is also very old. So even when
Speaker 3: there is not construction on say a ballroom slash.
Speaker 4: Bunker right, bunker b ballam bunker right.
Speaker 3: Even even when there's not construction like that, sixteen hundred,
Speaker 3: Pennsylvania needs a pretty sizable active team of people doing
Speaker 3: all the stuff that never hits the news. Who cleans
Speaker 3: those roups, right, who's our hvac guy, who mows the
Speaker 3: law and et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 4: Groundskeepers. I mean, like you know, landscaping, the rose garden,
Speaker 4: all that kind of stuff. They got to keep it
Speaker 4: looking nice. Now it's a little different these days, but
Speaker 4: that's the kind of stuff we're talking about.
Speaker 2: It reminds me a lot of many of the staff
Speaker 2: that were employed by the Piedmont Driving Club who were
Speaker 2: meant to not even really be seen. It says, though
Speaker 2: you are invisible, you move through these huge ballrooms and
Speaker 2: you know, massive rooms underground areas for employees only where
Speaker 2: you can get from one place to another without the
Speaker 2: members seeing you, or in this case, the upper staff
Speaker 2: of the White House doing those things like like you said,
Speaker 2: tending to the outside, the inside, the roof, literally everything
Speaker 2: including the kitchens.
Speaker 3: You know, it's weird too. That's a great point, Matt
Speaker 3: about Piedmont Driving Club. It's weird too for us as
Speaker 3: Americans to realize how Downton Abbey upstairs, downstairs divided the
Speaker 3: White House actually is. And these folks are the beating
Speaker 3: heart of this estate, of this real estate. They are
Speaker 3: an integral piece of the household. And you know, I
Speaker 3: was talking with somebody who does background checks earlier for
Speaker 3: an unrelated thing, and just imagine, let us all for
Speaker 3: a second, how bad it would look to the world
Speaker 3: if the White House had a crappy yard. I don't
Speaker 3: want to sound too much like an old man, but
Speaker 3: you know, if you saw that their grass was bad
Speaker 3: and they had, you know, an old Chevy up on
Speaker 3: some cinder blocks, well.
Speaker 4: As a fellow old man, you do get to a
Speaker 4: point where your lawn reflects.
Speaker 3: Your you know who you are, just like the menu
Speaker 3: that you might order. Segue foreshadowing. No matter, this is
Speaker 3: cool because it reminds us, and hopefully reminds you folks,
Speaker 3: of our conversations about those food service workers at the Pentagon, right,
Speaker 3: and the people who take out the trash at the Pentagon,
Speaker 3: or do the HVAC at the Pentagon. They have to
Speaker 3: pass a background check that goes up the wazoo. They
Speaker 3: obviously have to have drug tests, they have to have
Speaker 3: an established record of excellence within their fields. And to
Speaker 3: be clear, yeah, a lot of the folks that we're
Speaker 3: talking about in the White House here are going to
Speaker 3: be contractors, which means that they have a private company
Speaker 3: that has complied with Uncle Sam's security requirements and they
Speaker 3: don't have, you know, compartmentalized or top secret clearance. But
Speaker 3: you might be surprised, folks by how many people have
Speaker 3: some version of a secrecy clearance just because of the
Speaker 3: access to the places that they are visiting in their
Speaker 3: day to day work. Last thing, most recently, political loyalty
Speaker 3: to the administration became part of the vet process. Back
Speaker 3: in the day, they didn't care who you were when
Speaker 3: you were Moe in the yard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you said, things are all different these days. It's
Speaker 4: important to point out too, which you might already be thinking,
Speaker 4: is that you know, these larger events, visiting dignitaries, state
Speaker 4: dinners and stuff like that, they do bring in outside
Speaker 4: help for that. Oftentimes they'll be like a guest chef
Speaker 4: that they invite to co design and kind of head
Speaker 4: up the creation of the meal. But all the cooking
Speaker 4: still does happen in the White House kitchens, but the
Speaker 4: day to day meals are done by the executive residents
Speaker 4: culinary team, which includes a chef, pastry chef, and of
Speaker 4: course the associated staff.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, the Sioux chefs. Shout out to them, We're
Speaker 3: going to spend some time with one in particular. And guys,
Speaker 3: this might get us in a little bit of hot
Speaker 3: or very cold water. I have to say. The political
Speaker 3: loyalty point. I know it's weaponized today, but it kind
Speaker 3: of makes sense historically. If you are an American president,
Speaker 3: would you purposely hire an avowed communist who wanted to
Speaker 3: overthrow the United States? Because if you did, you would
Speaker 3: grant them a deep level of access to one of
Speaker 3: the most powerful political organizations on the planet. So maybe
Speaker 3: there should be something like maybe not who did you
Speaker 3: vote for, but maybe something akin to are you okay
Speaker 3: with the United States existing? Well?
Speaker 4: Guys, I mean I go back to the whole palace
Speaker 4: intrigue of it all. I mean, what's more dangerous than
Speaker 4: somebody on the cooking staff who might have it out
Speaker 4: for the king or the president? You know, and it
Speaker 4: makes me think of like a court tasters, you know,
Speaker 4: taking food tasters and all of that. And Ben, I
Speaker 4: don't know if this came up in your research, but
Speaker 4: I did not realize that the dining and the culinary
Speaker 4: services is actually handled by the US Navy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yep, which.
Speaker 4: Is something called white house mess Yeah, it's a lot
Speaker 4: of fun.
Speaker 3: You got to earn your way up because you've got
Speaker 3: your housekeepers vetted, you have your landscapers vet it to
Speaker 3: some degree. We could talk about that later. It might
Speaker 3: be outside of the scope of this or two in
Speaker 3: the weeds. These folks are not politicians themselves. They are
Speaker 3: not elected. They do have, to your point, Noal, an
Speaker 3: intimate inside look at some of the most sensitive conversations.
Speaker 3: We could imagine. One of the most coveted roles in
Speaker 3: this storied institution is the role of the executive chef.
Speaker 3: So if you work in food service, fellow conspiracy realist,
Speaker 3: you are going to enjoy this one or send us
Speaker 3: emails to set us straight.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I gotta wonder how somebody pursuing the culinary art
Speaker 4: sets their sites on that particular gig.
Speaker 3: Well, first, they didn't have a choice. The very first
Speaker 3: president cook for the very first president was a man
Speaker 3: known as Hercules who was enslaved by George Washington, and
Speaker 3: it served as the first presidential cook until he escaped
Speaker 3: slavery in seventeen ninety seven on George Washington's birthday. So
Speaker 3: this has been around for a while. I think was
Speaker 3: up until about eighteen hundred, the White House kitchen forced
Speaker 3: enslaved people to cook for the ruling class.
Speaker 2: Talk about a strange choice, just considering the founding documents
Speaker 2: and then to have in the primary residence of the
Speaker 2: person that's running this new place based upon these new
Speaker 2: documents that state pretty clearly what they feel like. Every
Speaker 2: human being, every man is created equally, and yet you
Speaker 2: have enslaved human beings to cook your food to continue
Speaker 2: your life. Going on and again talking about that trust,
Speaker 2: enslaving some one and then you know, not thinking they
Speaker 2: might want to hurt you. That's a that's a crazy
Speaker 2: thing to do.
Speaker 4: Well, it's part and parcel with the whole white supremacist
Speaker 4: angle of it. All They look at these folks is
Speaker 4: inherently inferior genetically, of course, but I imagine that intellect
Speaker 4: would go into that and they would be like, well, no,
Speaker 4: we are their masters, and they are like, you know, good,
Speaker 4: good pets that would never ever do anything to harm
Speaker 4: their masters. It's just this like absolute delusional way of
Speaker 4: looking at human beings.
Speaker 3: Benevolent, condescending, demi gods is how they see it. Do
Speaker 3: also check out a show or an episode of our
Speaker 3: related sister show Francis Scott Key, the guy who wrote
Speaker 3: the Star Spangled Banner, also a slave owner and kind
Speaker 3: of a jerk.
Speaker 2: Recently, I just got back from a personal trip to
Speaker 2: the UK and I went to this place called the
Speaker 2: Royal Pavilion in Brighton and Hove I think, I think
Speaker 2: it's maybe just Brighton, and it is this taj Mahal
Speaker 2: inspired giant palace that was made for the various King
Speaker 2: George's or the Prince George and King George the Fourth.
Speaker 2: It was it was like Prince of Wales, whatever George
Speaker 2: then he got sick and in the head and couldn't
Speaker 2: govern or whatever whatever you do as king. So then
Speaker 2: George the third, George the Fourth came in. Anyway, it's
Speaker 2: this whole thing. But they had this massive ballroom right
Speaker 2: where they would put on these feasts and you got
Speaker 2: to go into the kitchen where these feasts are prepared,
Speaker 2: and there are you just learn about the human beings
Speaker 2: that worked so hard, tirelessly to put out these meals
Speaker 2: that were just when you think about those medieval feasts, guys,
Speaker 2: and you see them depicted on screen, the real menu
Speaker 2: that you got to see when you walk into this
Speaker 2: this place from eighteen seventeen. It was like, I couldn't
Speaker 2: even tell you how dozens of courses it was. And
Speaker 2: each course had like three or five different things where
Speaker 2: they would just bring out, uh, what do they say,
Speaker 2: the head of a great sturgeon in champagne, pigeons in crayfish, butter.
Speaker 4: Yes, but just beasts inside of other, beasts inside of other.
Speaker 2: Well, it takes you back to Marie Antoinette and some
Speaker 2: of that depiction just of what it's like to have
Speaker 2: a simple meal. But this is not a simple meal
Speaker 2: obviously that we're describing, but just to have lunch one
Speaker 2: day in your palace, what does that look like? And
Speaker 2: what does it take to prepare that?
Speaker 4: What does it take? Not to get too political about it,
Speaker 4: but like I mean to do that in the face
Speaker 4: of folks around you that you're ruling over, starving or
Speaker 4: not able to afford to you.
Speaker 3: Know, right, let me cake check out our upcoming strange
Speaker 3: news conversation about grocery prices. We we know the White
Speaker 3: House has the American expeariman has always had this weird
Speaker 3: thing about how to handle its one percent? Right, it's
Speaker 3: upper crust? Are we a nation ruled by a small
Speaker 3: majority of aristocrats? Technically that is correct. Technically that is correct.
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people don't love it when
Speaker 3: we point that out, but it is beat me here, Dylan.
Speaker 3: It's weird and it's correct. So the White House has
Speaker 3: a what they call a permanent full time culinary staff
Speaker 3: of five to six chefs. So this will be like
Speaker 3: your executive chef. This will be your Sioux chefs, those folks,
Speaker 3: by the way, because of some earlier conversations in Congress,
Speaker 3: when those folks cook for the first family, the president,
Speaker 3: the spouse, the ghettoes, whatever that comes out of the
Speaker 3: president's pocket technically, but when you get to those big
Speaker 3: state dinners like you're describing Noll, the large events, Oh
Speaker 3: some guy from Russia's showing up, or oh this is
Speaker 3: the big pubab insert country here, then they call in
Speaker 3: a part time staff of twenty to twenty five assistant chefs,
Speaker 3: food runners, waiters, stewards, butler's, etc. Those folks all get
Speaker 3: overseen by the position of executive chef. And that chef
Speaker 3: position is pretty cool, interestingly enough, because it remains stable
Speaker 3: often throughout changes in administration, like successive presidents who hate
Speaker 3: each other will often still stick with the same chef
Speaker 3: and just say, you know, you seem cool. I like
Speaker 3: real cheese, and the chef says yes, mister President. So
Speaker 3: who is our first, aside from Hercules, who has been
Speaker 3: ignored in history, who is our first official executive chef
Speaker 3: of the modern White House?
Speaker 2: There've always been chefs, as they were saying, in the
Speaker 2: White House, and chefs and many a cook, many a
Speaker 2: sue serving that facility right, and as the White House
Speaker 2: has changed over the years. But the title executive chef,
Speaker 2: the position executive chef at the White House was started
Speaker 2: by Jacqueline Kennedy and that was in nineteen sixty one. Guys,
Speaker 2: you might have to check me on that. I think
Speaker 2: it was sixty one where Rene Verdn, which who was
Speaker 2: a French chef. He was well known, but he wasn't
Speaker 2: like a celebrity chef does that make sense, guys. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we don't often see a celebrity chef filling the role
Speaker 2: of executive chef for the White House. So like in
Speaker 2: Anthony Bardane showing up, Hey, guess what, I'm the chef now.
Speaker 4: Well, but someone like that might be brought on for
Speaker 4: a special engagement.
Speaker 2: Yes, but then the White House executive chef since nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty one has taken on a bit of celebrity status
Speaker 2: because now they're in interviews all the time. There's this
Speaker 2: excitement about oh, what is the First family eating these days?
Speaker 2: And all all of that stuff, right with a bit
Speaker 2: of the royalty treatment happening. Huh in a little bit
Speaker 2: maybe exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people are starving throughout the world. But what do
Speaker 3: the Bush twins eat? Do they really need to know
Speaker 3: the calories for every meal? That's crazy. We'll be back
Speaker 3: after a brief break for the news in the Middle East.
Speaker 4: Oh God, sponsoring us.
Speaker 3: It's very bread. It's just so, it's so it's isolated.
Speaker 3: And again we're not disparaging the chefs they're doing. No,
Speaker 3: they're doing a very good job.
Speaker 2: They do an incredible thing. And you know, cooking food
Speaker 2: is an art and it is science and there are
Speaker 2: specific chefs who have made it so right so that
Speaker 2: we think about cooking as an art and a science
Speaker 2: rather than just getting sustenance.
Speaker 3: For a meal.
Speaker 2: And just to take it back to the pavilion for
Speaker 2: one second, the chef there that would cook or that
Speaker 2: was known to cook there a lot of the time
Speaker 2: was Marie Antoine Karem, who was arguably the first celebrity
Speaker 2: chef back in the eighteen hundreds. And this is a
Speaker 2: person that was was known for these those crazy feasts
Speaker 2: we were talking about, but also as promoting food as
Speaker 2: art and science right on.
Speaker 3: And also Julia Childs worked as a spy. We're gonna
Speaker 3: that is true, and this is this is a this
Speaker 3: we're planting seeds right, you know what I mean. We're
Speaker 3: getting our mission place. So we also need you to know,
Speaker 3: folks that across the pond. Over in the United States,
Speaker 3: the most recent official executive chef is a tremendously inspiring
Speaker 3: person named Christeta Comerford. This chef served from two thousand
Speaker 3: and five to two thousand and twenty four. Her story
Speaker 3: is phenomenal. Native of the Philippines, becomes an assistant chef
Speaker 3: after getting after getting US citizenship, in nineteen ninety five
Speaker 3: under the Clintons, works her way up under the W.
Speaker 3: Bush presidency speaking of aristocracy in two thousand and five,
Speaker 3: and that time window is so interesting because that means
Speaker 3: she was cooking for five separate presidents. It's like, especially
Speaker 3: in these divided times, it is extraordinary to realize these
Speaker 3: folks definitely don't agree on politics, but apparently good food
Speaker 3: is the one bipartisan issue they can all get behind.
Speaker 3: So congrats to that chef. Also, first woman, first person
Speaker 3: of color to achieve this rarefied position.
Speaker 4: I mean, these days, the no of anybody keeping a
Speaker 4: job from one administration to the next is pretty much
Speaker 4: a non starter.
Speaker 3: It's a good point. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, but it is crazy that she gets that actlyte
Speaker 2: and it is great that she does. But considering all
Speaker 2: of the enslaved human beings of color who worked in
Speaker 2: that position essentially right, So it is that weird thing
Speaker 2: where we have to we create the specialized position of
Speaker 2: executive chef. And now that is a thing versus the
Speaker 2: human beings who actually did the thing long long ago,
Speaker 2: but did it against their will.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is why I'm so happy we got the
Speaker 3: chance to shout out hercules at the very beginning right now,
Speaker 3: there is no official executive chef at the White House,
Speaker 3: which might surprise people because that seems like something the
Speaker 3: current regime would want. Right Instead, there is a former
Speaker 3: assistant of comer Ford named Tommy Kurpreditt krad It. He
Speaker 3: is the current acting executive chef, and hey, man, if
Speaker 3: you're watching this, good luck, chef. We hope they make
Speaker 3: you official.
Speaker 2: Keep those fryars hot.
Speaker 3: Gosh, keep those burgers ready right at any time of
Speaker 3: day or night. Obviously, any work in any kitchen on
Speaker 3: a professional level is going to be stressful. Yet the
Speaker 3: steaks or the steaks thank you for the spelling jo yes,
Speaker 3: spelling joke, they're a whole other level. Right when your
Speaker 3: regular diners are some of the most powerful and arguably
Speaker 3: some of the most dangerous people on the planet. You know,
Speaker 3: there's a legendary level of service here. There's also an
Speaker 3: entirely different dark side to cooking at the White House
Speaker 3: because Matt No, like we're saying, there are tons of
Speaker 3: documentaries and interviews about the story history of the White
Speaker 3: House Kitchen. Can watch all these things, these investigations into
Speaker 3: how the sausage is literally made and so on all
Speaker 3: the livelong day. But there is a strange pattern a
Speaker 3: lot of people miss, which is this White House chefs
Speaker 3: it seems have been drowning.
Speaker 4: You mean like in work, you mean like they's got
Speaker 4: so much going on that they're just they can't keep
Speaker 4: their head above water.
Speaker 3: Keep their head above water. No, that seems to be
Speaker 3: the problem.
Speaker 4: We're talking literally, But I'm sorry, I have to just
Speaker 4: drop this in the We're talking about the dark side
Speaker 4: of the spoon.
Speaker 3: There we go. Here's where it gets crazy. Fellow conspiracy realist,
Speaker 3: It is true, not once, but twice high profile former
Speaker 3: White House chefs have passed away in drowning incidents. One
Speaker 3: of these was an executive chef. Another one was a
Speaker 3: Sioux chef who later went on to work as a
Speaker 3: personal chef for the Obama administration. So, who wants to
Speaker 3: introduce us to Walt?
Speaker 4: Yes, indeed, Walter Shibe Sheeb, I'm gonna go with shi.
Speaker 4: It was born on May the third of nineteen fifty four,
Speaker 4: Walter Stanley Shibe the third. He cut his teeth in
Speaker 4: DC's Capital Hilton, A bit of a fancy Hilton's back
Speaker 4: in those days. If they had a little more Cachet.
Speaker 4: From there, he worked at the Boca rattan overre in
Speaker 4: Boca Resort for four years, and he traveled back to
Speaker 4: Washington worked briefly at the Mayflower Hotel. It's pretty storied.
Speaker 4: After the Mayflower, he became the executive chef at the
Speaker 4: Greenbrier in West Virginia.
Speaker 2: Boss Greenbrier Hotel, what's special about that?
Speaker 3: What is special about that? Thanks to our pal Garrett M. Graff,
Speaker 3: the author of Raven Rock, the story of the US
Speaker 3: government's secret land to save itself while the rest of
Speaker 3: us die is What's secret about this is that Greenbrier
Speaker 3: had a longstanding doomsday bunker for America's most influential politicians.
Speaker 4: I would love to talk more about the intersection between
Speaker 4: hospitality and doom's day protection.
Speaker 2: Mm.
Speaker 4: You know, I mean we're talking about that ballroom earlier,
Speaker 4: which is, you know, definitely aligned with that. So it
Speaker 4: does kind of make you think after the typical addition
Speaker 4: process for that gig. And I was sort of being
Speaker 4: flip earlier about who would target that specific gig, you know,
Speaker 4: who someone who's dedicated their life to culinary pursuits. Well,
Speaker 4: it turns out thousands would hope to have that job.
Speaker 4: So that makes perfect sense because to your point, Matt,
Speaker 4: this is someone that does inevitably take on a certain
Speaker 4: type of celebrity status unto themselves in the culinary world.
Speaker 2: That's a proximity to power in general.
Speaker 4: I think, oh, sure, sure, So thousands apply, only a
Speaker 4: few are invited for an audition. Shibe became the White
Speaker 4: House executive chef in nineteen ninety four, and he would
Speaker 4: hold onto that position again to our earlier point, maybe
Speaker 4: not as common anymore until two thousand and five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is fascinating because if you are a fan
Speaker 3: of history, if you are a fan of diplomacy and
Speaker 3: pulinary forensics, we could almost call it, you will be
Speaker 3: just baffled by the anecdotes of pulinary drama that occur constantly.
Speaker 3: So no matter who you voted for, what you need
Speaker 3: to know is that the president you like or hate
Speaker 3: routinely conspires with the White House kitchen staff to get
Speaker 3: snacks when they think they can get away with it
Speaker 3: and get away from their keepers. They're entourage their family.
Speaker 3: Even Bill Clinton was reportedly infamous for this conspiracy because
Speaker 3: every time his wife Hillary Clinton was away from the grounds,
Speaker 3: he would come up to the chef and be like, uh,
Speaker 3: can I get a twenty four ounce porterhouse? Let me think,
Speaker 3: and we'll just keep this between us.
Speaker 4: And just to walk back what I said earlier. And
Speaker 4: I think this speaks to your point, Ben about how
Speaker 4: this gig is somewhat a political the you had mentioned
Speaker 4: the previous executive chef, Christeta Comerford had that gig for
Speaker 4: twenty one years and only just recently retired. And we
Speaker 4: don't have, I believe, a new official executive chef. So
Speaker 4: that person was there through Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden.
Speaker 3: Yes. Yeah, And the food of the White House is
Speaker 3: as much of a statement as it is sustenance. It's
Speaker 3: politicized as anything else. Let us not forget the Great
Speaker 3: Poupon scandal, right because everybody has to eat, so you
Speaker 3: want to feel that universal connection. Whatever the First Family
Speaker 3: consumes often becomes, for better or worse, a statement about
Speaker 3: the country. There was a past chef who balked at this.
Speaker 3: I don't know how much we all read about this,
Speaker 3: but I was interested in the story of Hans Raffert,
Speaker 3: who notably ended up well. He was asked by the
Speaker 3: Clintons to cook low fat American cuisine and it was
Speaker 3: a bridge too far for his soul as a chef,
Speaker 3: right as an artist. And he balked at this and
Speaker 3: he ended up technically residing. But really they fired him
Speaker 3: because a man's got avo code.
Speaker 2: Well, he's a French, he's a he's a German human,
Speaker 2: but he is a French chef, right, so as cuisine
Speaker 2: is French, and what do you use in French cuisine
Speaker 2: more than anything fat?
Speaker 3: I mean so, so it's that's an interesting note because
Speaker 3: there are people who put their principles over celebrity, your prestige, right,
Speaker 3: And our guy Walter is very good at his job.
Speaker 3: He can roll with the punches. Eventually, even he was
Speaker 3: let go due to differences in preference under the Bush administration.
Speaker 3: There's there's a little piece of e femera you can
Speaker 3: catch in the news from back in the day where
Speaker 3: an anonymous White House staffer says there was tension. You know,
Speaker 3: the chef knew that the Bushes didn't like scallops, and
Speaker 3: I think he kept serving him scallops on purpose.
Speaker 4: That would be a move, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3: I love it. But he stays in the public eye,
Speaker 3: right because, like we're saying, once you attain this rarefied air,
Speaker 3: wherever you go, your fortune is made right as long
Speaker 3: as you leave in an amicable way. He writes a memoir,
Speaker 3: He co writes a memoir. He becomes a lecturer consultant,
Speaker 3: so he goes to people who are doing fancy state
Speaker 3: dinners and said stuff like, here's where the fork for
Speaker 3: the salad goes? I don't know. And then he also
Speaker 3: he al on.
Speaker 4: The left, that's the little it's a little fork.
Speaker 3: Rt Right, there's a old Larry Day to think about this. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And he founds the corporation to handle his his legal
Speaker 3: dealings in this regard. And he also he's known to
Speaker 3: be a pretty great orator because of his anecdotes about
Speaker 3: what world leaders he Yeah, I'd be interested in.
Speaker 2: That, Yeah, exactly, because ultimately you've got knowledge now, and
Speaker 2: you're imparting that knowledge through things like memoirs, through books,
Speaker 2: through speaking engagement things like that.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it would also give you a little
Speaker 4: bit of insight into like the health of an individual,
Speaker 4: wouldn't it long long term?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Wise?
Speaker 4: And they how likely they are to live for a
Speaker 4: long time or not?
Speaker 3: How many cheeseburgers per day?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly how many hot dogs have you had today
Speaker 2: this morning?
Speaker 3: How many once like for coffee or we talk it
Speaker 3: like because the day starts at the offee.
Speaker 2: It's like chopped up hot dogs.
Speaker 4: Have you heard a lot of this chatter? I don't
Speaker 4: know if it's coming from the it's probably coming what's
Speaker 4: coming from some staff for sure. About how apparently Trump
Speaker 4: has like used like empty ice cream cartons and burger wrappers.
Speaker 4: It's always like litter all over his bedchambers.
Speaker 2: Oh god boy, No, I haven't heard about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's the kind of information we're talking about.
Speaker 3: Tip your housekeeper, whether you're at a hotel or what Yeah, yes.
Speaker 2: Yes, or just at your house if it's a palse and.
Speaker 3: If you're your housekeeper, tip yourself.
Speaker 4: Yes, be good to yourself at the very least. Yeah,
Speaker 4: you're doing a great job.
Speaker 3: We do. Really, what's going on?
Speaker 2: So let's talk about an unspoken thing a little bit
Speaker 2: because of the glorification a bit of the title of
Speaker 2: executive chef. An executive chef once you reach that level
Speaker 2: and you're creating a menu and you are showing other
Speaker 2: chefs how to prepare your menu or your style or
Speaker 2: the exact nature even a restarred Michelin chef. Well, actually
Speaker 2: not so much that. I don't know that. I think
Speaker 2: there are levels to this whole thing. But if you
Speaker 2: become an executive chef, often you are not the one
Speaker 2: doing the cooking anymore. You are going places, you're having meetings,
Speaker 2: You're dealing with the business side. Hence the term executive.
Speaker 2: There you were maybe starting restaurants, you're beginning a franchise,
Speaker 2: maybe you are traveling a lot. The executive chef title
Speaker 2: is very different than a Sioux chef or someone who's
Speaker 2: doing me some implas all day long and cutting vegetables.
Speaker 2: The the executive chef is this, I don't know how
Speaker 2: to put it, guys, it's it's not all about cookery anymore.
Speaker 3: You're the ambassador of the kitchen, is the way I
Speaker 3: would put it. You're the You're the You're definitely the
Speaker 3: administrative head, right you, Yeah, on that part of the downstairs.
Speaker 2: Yes, and that that therein lies. I think why it's
Speaker 2: such a sought after position because working in a kitchen
Speaker 2: is so labor intensive and hard and sweaty and can
Speaker 2: just be god awful and wonderful at the same time. Right,
Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's all terrible, but it's hard to ask work.
Speaker 2: So I'm imagining just this thing that might be chased
Speaker 2: after once you get it, once you've done it. I
Speaker 2: wonder what an executive chef of the White House does
Speaker 2: when they're finished.
Speaker 3: Right right? Where do you go next after you've beaten
Speaker 3: the video game? You've beaten the final level?
Speaker 4: Well, it's the end games, and some games they ain't
Speaker 4: got it right, like Skyrim, which is awesome.
Speaker 3: Everybody should play it. So that's a bit of an aside,
Speaker 3: but it's it's a great point because when we're when
Speaker 3: we're talking about this level your executive chef, if you
Speaker 3: go to the world's best restaurants of the past, like
Speaker 3: Albouye or Noma, what you see is those guys are
Speaker 3: almost Frank Lloyd Wright level cult worshiped, right, and they
Speaker 3: come in and they say, well, you pitch me this dish,
Speaker 3: and you let me taste it and see if it's
Speaker 3: worthy for service. So are there are a lot more
Speaker 3: like generals than they are like infantry is a good
Speaker 3: way to think about it. That's why they call it
Speaker 3: a brigade. That's exactly why they call it a brigade.
Speaker 3: No because the French concept of how a kitchen should
Speaker 3: be run and how the labor should be divided does
Speaker 3: come from military experience. So this guy, our guy, Walt
Speaker 3: chef Wald, he travels widely. He's doing quite well. He's
Speaker 3: not too old, you know, he's late fifties in this
Speaker 3: time of his life, getting up to just north of sixty.
Speaker 3: And he doesn't just visit almost every United States. He
Speaker 3: makes it too, one hundred and fifty four countries between
Speaker 3: two thousand and seven and twenty fifteen. His passport looked
Speaker 3: it looked like a Russian prisoner. It was that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it looked like VORs on that. And he ends up
Speaker 3: going to He has personal trials and travails, of course.
Speaker 3: He ends up moving to New Mexico, to Taos, New Mexico.
Speaker 3: He has a girlfriend, he has a good family life.
Speaker 3: He's set to go. He goes on a hike in
Speaker 3: twenty fifteen, and on June thirteenth of that year, he
Speaker 3: is reported missing because he doesn't return from this hike.
Speaker 3: So investigators track his cell phone as best they can.
Speaker 3: They say, okay, this cell phone is in a nearby
Speaker 3: mountain in Taos, and a few days later, on June
Speaker 3: twenty First, they discover the remains of the former executive
Speaker 3: chef of the White House about one point seven miles
Speaker 3: from the base of the hiking trail.
Speaker 2: Yeah, about thirty yards away from a hiking trail. And
Speaker 2: you can read a lot about this specific trail that
Speaker 2: he was hiking down. What it looked like, you know,
Speaker 2: the elevation change and all that kind of stuff. Was
Speaker 2: it uphill, was a downhill? Was it like? How much
Speaker 2: water was there? Because all of these things come into play,
Speaker 2: especially when you realize that it appears this man had drowned,
Speaker 2: or at least according to the official story.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because the autopsy results indicated some questions and
Speaker 3: some conclusions. First, the authority said there's no side of
Speaker 3: foul play. But keep in mind what Matt just said, folks.
Speaker 3: He the autopsy said he was dead as a result
Speaker 3: of accidental drowning. However, the ravine where he was found,
Speaker 3: the water was very cold. It preserved his cadaver in
Speaker 3: a way that made it impossible to know exactly when
Speaker 3: he died. So when you hear accidental drowning, for a
Speaker 3: lot of more cynical people in the crowd, you end
Speaker 3: up asking how accidental is an accident, to be fair,
Speaker 3: This area where the chef is hiking is well known
Speaker 3: for flash floods, and on the day he was reported missing,
Speaker 3: a ton of thunderstorms had rolled through. And if you're
Speaker 3: familiar with this part of the United States, or with
Speaker 3: New Mexico and this part of New Mexico specifically, you
Speaker 3: know that when those floods happened, they happen quickly. Flash
Speaker 3: flood is not an ironic term at all. The water
Speaker 3: is not there and then a lot of it suddenly
Speaker 3: appears as if it teleported.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called the Yurbucanyan trail head. It's a four
Speaker 2: mile trail and it follows basically the base of a
Speaker 2: canyon and then it travels up thirty seven hundred feet.
Speaker 2: So imagine a lot of rain coming down thirty seven
Speaker 2: hundred feet towards you. If you're at the bottom of that,
Speaker 2: it could be really treacherous, or if you're caught in
Speaker 2: that incline as a bunch of water and debris and
Speaker 2: mud and all that stuff is heading towards you. So
Speaker 2: there is a potential for absolutely natural thing that occurred,
Speaker 2: a tragedy in the wrong place at the wrong time
Speaker 2: it this one, I would just say, doesn't it feels
Speaker 2: like it could be that, right, just an accident.
Speaker 3: Right, because the wild is the wild, and even an
Speaker 3: experienced hiker may be in a situation where your environment
Speaker 3: changes so quickly you can't find purchase as you're scrambling
Speaker 3: for that elevation. We also have to know, as as
Speaker 3: you'll recall astute conspiracy realist, people die from hiking all
Speaker 3: the time in the United States every year, so much
Speaker 3: so the federal government still does not keep a data
Speaker 3: of how many people go missing in national parks. So
Speaker 3: this is something to that point that absolutely could happen
Speaker 3: and the news could fade from the headlines, except that
Speaker 3: just a few years later, in twenty twenty three, another
Speaker 3: tragedy struck and people started seeing connections between these two
Speaker 3: tragedies and they started looking at Chef Walter's death in
Speaker 3: a new light. So now we introduce Tafari Campbell. TAFARII
Speaker 3: Campbell is a former White House Sioux chef, which is
Speaker 3: kind of like a second in command, you know, to
Speaker 3: our earlier point about an executive chef, this this guy,
Speaker 3: this chef is serving while the Barack Obama administration is
Speaker 3: in the White House, and the First Family became very
Speaker 3: close to Chef Campbell during their time there. They befriend him,
Speaker 3: They know his family and his kids as well. They say,
Speaker 3: when they're leaving the White House, they say, hey, do
Speaker 3: you want to just come work for us because you're
Speaker 3: you're awesome. We like hanging out with you. And he agrees.
Speaker 3: So Campbell often works at an estate on Martha's Vineyard
Speaker 3: in Massachusetts owned by the Obama family. It's called Katama.
Speaker 3: I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Ka T A m A.
Speaker 3: This guy's young.
Speaker 2: Is the Katama because they the Obama family, by the way,
Speaker 2: much like Royalty, has owned or lived in a couple
Speaker 2: of different estates there on Martha's Vineyards. Yes, the one
Speaker 2: I'm looking at, the one that's dealing with this incident
Speaker 2: is I think it's seventy nine Turkey Land Cove Road
Speaker 2: or something right by the pond. Yeah, between slowco in
Speaker 2: Turkey Land Cove out there on Egerton Great Pond.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it is a friggin' to talk about a castle
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you know, you never really stop being president.
Speaker 2: Isn't it isn't that crazy? Yeah, I don't know why
Speaker 2: I had some kind of illusions about the the Obama
Speaker 2: family or something. I was like, Oh, they're not quite
Speaker 2: as like they're not. They're they're up there, but they're
Speaker 2: not like the Bush family.
Speaker 3: You thought they about a duplex, dude, But no.
Speaker 2: But we've talked about the Bush family and the fortunes
Speaker 2: that were made their way before the presidency, and you
Speaker 2: know how much money flowed around that family. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: Obama family didn't have that. If you go back in
Speaker 2: the history at least the available history of like where
Speaker 2: Barack Obama lived wait far or before you know, becoming
Speaker 2: governor or president or any of that stuff, and the
Speaker 2: humbleness of those things. Then you look at this place
Speaker 2: on Martha's Vineyard, which is like what, that's the the
Speaker 2: royal grounds of the Americas. Yeah, martha Zenyards, one of
Speaker 2: two right out there on the coast of Boston. It
Speaker 2: just it didn't I didn't imagine this is where they
Speaker 2: would be hanging out. I don't know what.
Speaker 3: It's twenty nine acres folks right on Awata as Massachusetts
Speaker 3: would say. And to be clear that when I say Katama,
Speaker 3: that's the section of Edgar Town that they're living in.
Speaker 3: Toward the address that you're talking about, right, So.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's six ninety two square feet of house.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of house. Do you want more house?
Speaker 3: Because we have more house. We have house on special.
Speaker 3: So the the thing is this guy Campbell, this chef
Speaker 3: is very talented. He has made a great impression on
Speaker 3: the actual President of the United States. And at this
Speaker 3: time he is about forty five years old. Right, So
Speaker 3: done his time in the White House. He is now
Speaker 3: a personal chef to one of the most powerful, most
Speaker 3: dangerous people on the planet. He could have kept this
Speaker 3: job for decades or until he decided to retire. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: you know, he could have just spent all his time
Speaker 3: in the recreational swimming pools that he loved. Unfortunately this
Speaker 3: was not to be the case.
Speaker 2: He did love the recreational swimming pools, right.
Speaker 3: He's an accomplished swimmer, right, yeah, yeah, he is.
Speaker 2: Think about it. Okay, let's keep going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's go to July twenty fourth. It's twenty twenty
Speaker 3: three local authorities and again this very posh area of
Speaker 3: the United States. They get a nine to one one call.
Speaker 3: It's around seven forty six pm and it's from a
Speaker 3: person who is paddle boarding on that pond we mentioned earlier,
Speaker 3: and he says, another paddle boarder has gone into the water.
Speaker 3: He's a dude. I saw him dip down. He was
Speaker 3: struggling to stay on the surface. He went back under
Speaker 3: the water again and he has not returned to the surface,
Speaker 3: and I can provide more details. We need help, We
Speaker 3: need help. A search begins. There are multiple agencies in
Speaker 3: the area. They're lending a hand. Eventually, an outfit called
Speaker 3: the Massachusetts Environmental Police locates a body. They do this
Speaker 3: using what we call a side scan sonar. So they're
Speaker 3: floating around in a boat and they're waiting for a
Speaker 3: ping and then the divers come in from the State
Speaker 3: Police and they find a body. It's about one hundred
Speaker 3: feet from shore at a depth of only eight feet.
Speaker 2: Strong swimmer experience, Well, now that is where the body
Speaker 2: is recovered. That doesn't mean that's the human became a body.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, But I'm with Noel here eight feet.
Speaker 2: I'm also with you, guys. I'm just trying to remain
Speaker 2: fair objective.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So they find they find this body. At first,
Speaker 3: they don't know it's Campbell, but it doesn't take long
Speaker 3: to connect the dots and they are able to verify
Speaker 3: these are the remains of Campbell. So the police issue
Speaker 3: a statement and a spokesperson with the outfit called the
Speaker 3: Massachusetts Executive Office of Public Safety and Security says autopsy
Speaker 3: has confirmed the cause of death. It is accidental drowning.
Speaker 3: And then, for the record, before we get deeper here,
Speaker 3: the Obama family, so far as we know, was not
Speaker 3: at the estate during this.
Speaker 2: Time, but it is right off of the estate.
Speaker 3: It's right there, and there was a second paddle border.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know, I heard nine to one to one
Speaker 2: audio that was allegedly a part of this, and it
Speaker 2: sounded like a security team member alerting other security team members,
Speaker 2: but you know, speaking directly to the emergency services.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know that.
Speaker 2: Kind of speak that is very straight to the point.
Speaker 2: Here's what's happening. It's a male blah blah blah on
Speaker 2: this blah blah blah, blah blah blah. That's all you
Speaker 2: need to know.
Speaker 3: And then oh my god, there's no holy craps, No,
Speaker 3: none of that. Very contained, very clipped, very terse, very direct.
Speaker 2: Which is two things right. That is how someone who
Speaker 2: is trained to do that acts when you're in a
Speaker 2: crisis mode to be calm and just get the information
Speaker 2: across that you need. But it's also maybe the way
Speaker 2: someone would act if they had just drowned. Somebody just
Speaker 2: putting it out there.
Speaker 3: We're just putting it out there because we have we
Speaker 3: have I hope not purposely drowned anyone on this show.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I guess no, But what I mean
Speaker 2: is we have heard how about this personally? Guys, I
Speaker 2: have listened to the audio of the Zodiac killer or
Speaker 2: the alleged Zodiac killer making the phone calls, you know
Speaker 2: where it just says some things to you about what
Speaker 2: I just did, and it reminded me of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd add to that in some personal experience. A
Speaker 3: lot of people deal with shock in very different ways. So,
Speaker 3: for example, you might hear someone sounding very collected because
Speaker 3: their shock is kicking in right, and their survival mechanisms
Speaker 3: or maybe their muscle memory are going to keep them
Speaker 3: going until their mind tells them it's okay to collapse, right,
Speaker 3: So that could be part of it too, But this
Speaker 3: was not. It did not sound like it's cool. We
Speaker 3: don't want to read too many tea leaves. We do
Speaker 3: have to admit again, just like with hiking in the
Speaker 3: United States, Sadly, a significant number of people accidentally dropt
Speaker 3: in this country every single year. One of the most
Speaker 3: famous examples in our neck of the Global Woods is
Speaker 3: Lake Laneer, which is home to several drownings every year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of bad stuff goes down there. A
Speaker 2: lot of it is drinking and driving boats.
Speaker 3: Though, right, yeah, don't that's a huge part.
Speaker 2: You can do that.
Speaker 3: Don't think a boat is still a car, guys, it's
Speaker 3: still a motor vehicle. Don't drink and drive a boat
Speaker 3: or a vote. Check out our earlier episode on what
Speaker 3: was it called the cooping.
Speaker 4: Cooping is where you get no, you get people drunk
Speaker 4: and then you unleash them on the poles, right yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't do that one either, But well no.
Speaker 4: Way, isn't it like you, Yeah, you forced them to
Speaker 4: vote for your guy, yes, yeah, yeah, by getting them
Speaker 4: intoxicated and potentially even like physically.
Speaker 3: Assaulting them, yeah, and putting them in disguises. That was
Speaker 3: a wild ride. It's again, it's a tragedy because it
Speaker 3: is a tragedy compound given Tafari Campbell's passed as a
Speaker 3: White House chef, and given his close association with a
Speaker 3: former first family, as well as the fact that a
Speaker 3: few years beforehand, another chef had drowned, people started asking questions.
Speaker 3: They were saying, were both of these really just tragic
Speaker 3: accidents with dark commonalities based in coincidence? Was there something
Speaker 3: more to either case? Could they be connected?
Speaker 2: Does it remind you it's oh god, I'm not saying
Speaker 2: this is connected. I'm not trying to start a conspiracy theory,
Speaker 2: but it does remind me a tiny bit of chap equitic.
Speaker 2: Not the same, not the same, but it does remind
Speaker 2: me a little bit. Kennedy killed prepecnee, Yeah, but just
Speaker 2: a drowning, yeah, on a compound being used by presidents
Speaker 2: or you know that kind of thing. And this one,
Speaker 2: the Campbell one, feels weird to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially given the efficacy of drought as an assassination method. Folks,
Speaker 3: Before we go any further crucial caveat, we want to
Speaker 3: acknowledge the losses of the families here. You can never
Speaker 3: replace a loved one, Especially in the days of Internet
Speaker 3: trolls and social media, it can be so hurtful for
Speaker 3: friends and family to encounter these unfounded accusations allegations, et cetera.
Speaker 3: It's particularly cold when those deaths become weaponized by what
Speaker 3: we will call fringe actors. But there's there's a lot
Speaker 3: more to this story. Like I one personal thing I've
Speaker 3: run into in the past. Chefs as diplomats or chefs
Speaker 3: as vectors of information. You know a lot of weirdly
Speaker 3: polyglottic chefs. You speak seven languages and you're just oh,
Speaker 3: you just occasionally do a little hobachi for the ambassador
Speaker 3: from Denmark when they happen to be negotiating with Greenland
Speaker 3: with the US in Greenland. Any staff working at this
Speaker 3: level of power has to be vetted for a reason,
Speaker 3: because when you're a world leader, your the size of
Speaker 3: your professional sphere explodes, but your private sphere grows a
Speaker 3: lot smaller. Like Drake used to say, no new friends,
Speaker 3: So who can you trust? You know, I'm the President
Speaker 3: of the United States. I don't know if I can
Speaker 3: talk off the cuff with my former college buddies. What
Speaker 3: I say about Russia and public might be a lot
Speaker 3: different from what I say to my favorite chef Cookie
Speaker 3: at three in the morning, because I can't sleep and
Speaker 3: I just want a hot dog, and I got some
Speaker 3: stuff on my mind, you know what I mean, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of power in that.
Speaker 2: You have some dogs.
Speaker 3: You've got some hot dogs in a bull Sorry, so
Speaker 3: we're obviously we're not saying the KGB turned any White
Speaker 3: House staffers in the double O seven style Kingsman style
Speaker 3: hit man. But it's not impossible to get info from
Speaker 3: these people, and they might not even know what they're
Speaker 3: given away. You know, you can just be privy to
Speaker 3: sensitive information. It's that guys. It's that old movie trope
Speaker 3: where someone is saying, you know, mister Prime minister, mister
Speaker 3: President or your highness or whatever, this is secret information,
Speaker 3: and then whomever the person in power is, they turn around,
Speaker 3: they go, ah, it's just Jeremy. He's fine anyway. Jeremy's
Speaker 3: cool man, Tap me up. Anyway, What were you saying
Speaker 3: about this patriot deployment? This guy makes great hot talks.
Speaker 2: By the way, oh I bet homemade hot dogs. Let's
Speaker 2: talk really quickly about why a chef at that level
Speaker 2: might speak five languages or somewhat speak seven, almost a
Speaker 2: little bit seven languages, right? Why is that a lot
Speaker 2: of chefs that reach this level study broad in different
Speaker 2: countries with chefs of high level, the higher level than
Speaker 2: them at the moment that they are now studying in Japan,
Speaker 2: let's say, or South Korea are now in France or
Speaker 2: Germany or wherever. So it is a that is a
Speaker 2: fairly common thing. Or working in a kitchen with someone
Speaker 2: who primarily speaks Spanish, but you learn some of that
Speaker 2: language to be able to effectively communicate with your with
Speaker 2: people you're working with. That kitchens end up being a
Speaker 2: melting pot in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 2: So I do think that when we're thinking critically about
Speaker 2: all this stuff, right, it doesn't necessarily mean their spies
Speaker 2: because they speak seven languages, but that is a helpful
Speaker 2: thing if you wanted to be a spy.
Speaker 3: And they also don't have to know their spies, they
Speaker 3: could just be able to give information. Also, yeah, not
Speaker 3: all Mormon missionaries end up working for the CIA, but
Speaker 3: there's a reason the CIA loves them as draft picks.
Speaker 3: So this is this is all the stuff. What we're
Speaker 3: saying is these are realities. That makes it easy to
Speaker 3: understand why some people immediately search for a conspiracy with
Speaker 3: these two deaths, even if we don't personally agree with
Speaker 3: that perspective. It is understandable that there would be a
Speaker 3: wave of conspiracy theories about Campbell that hit social media.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were many. There's many a story written on
Speaker 2: the primary media outlets about the number of conspiracy theories
Speaker 2: showing up. Often they would focus in on, gosh, what
Speaker 2: your is this twenty twenty three when Tafari Campbell tied,
Speaker 2: so that this is when x X had already become
Speaker 2: a thing, right in twenty three or is that wrong? Yeah,
Speaker 2: you're correct, Okay, correct, because in my head it was Twitter,
Speaker 2: but I think it is x where that is the
Speaker 2: place to me bro Well, that's the place the primary
Speaker 2: media would point to and say, hey, look at these
Speaker 2: crazy people on x saying crazy things. But really, what
Speaker 2: folks would be looking at. Often, at least from my
Speaker 2: experience and I think our experience, TikTok, Instagram reels, those
Speaker 2: short videos that you just scroll through, those things will
Speaker 2: get filled almost immediately after something like this with real
Speaker 2: human beings putting things out there. Hey, guys, I'm kind
Speaker 2: of what we're doing today, but not the same thing.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, it's kind of weird. What about this?
Speaker 2: Seems like maybe they were eating babies? You're like, oh crap, what.
Speaker 4: Often with a piece of footage in the background with
Speaker 4: like a circle around something, you know, damn me. It
Speaker 4: is the ultimate Charlie Day red threadboard situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Oh, and it's always now in this format, it's
Speaker 3: on short form video. It's always the face down here
Speaker 3: like this in the lower part. And then yeah, and
Speaker 3: there's something playing in the back, like you said, and
Speaker 3: they're just like.
Speaker 2: And they've got a little mic that they're talking to. Look,
Speaker 2: it's crazy.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 4: Now, let me just say Devil's advocate. Sometimes they're pretty
Speaker 4: convincing and they give me some stuff to look into,
Speaker 4: give us some stuff to look into, and you yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, do your homework.
Speaker 3: We got to do it here.
Speaker 1: Now, they just they just do a lot of that
Speaker 1: where they get a very bottom and they point at things.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yes, yes, oh yeah.
Speaker 3: Right. And as you were saying, no, we're not invalidating
Speaker 3: the genre because it can be useful.
Speaker 2: As we've made the point before, anyone can say anything
Speaker 2: on these platforms, which is great and horrifying. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: because it becomes an echo chamber often and then it
Speaker 2: will show up on the conspiracy subredd in a bunch
Speaker 2: of other places then it shows up in other places,
Speaker 2: and quite often things are unfounded, and then folks will
Speaker 2: get discouraged when our show doesn't say, oh, yeah, they're
Speaker 2: eating humans, right, because it seems so ubiquitous and it
Speaker 2: seems so clear because of the sheer number of videos
Speaker 2: out there, Oh, the White House eats babies and kids
Speaker 2: and humans, and that's why these chefs had to die.
Speaker 2: And if enough people are saying it and we don't
Speaker 2: say it, then they're like, oh.
Speaker 3: You consensus reality.
Speaker 4: Yeah, guys, I don't know, hot take. I just feel
Speaker 4: like if they were eating babies, they wouldn't be getting
Speaker 4: the White House staff to prepare them. Yeah, it'd be
Speaker 4: some Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the thing. Can we can we go
Speaker 3: to just for an example of what we're setting up?
Speaker 3: Can we go to a guy named Ian Miles Chong? Please? Yeah? Okay,
Speaker 3: it's it's uh Twitter if you're faithful or X if
Speaker 3: you're weird. Actually everything out July twenty fourth, twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3: Chong is part of this massive wave of people who
Speaker 3: are most but not all, right wing, prominent accounts who
Speaker 3: are arguing conspiracy. Here in Chong's post, we see the
Speaker 3: text the death of Obama's personal chef, Tafari Campbell, a
Speaker 3: trained swimmer who drowned in a shallow pond outside the
Speaker 3: Obama family home. Wild paddle boarding is strange. What do
Speaker 3: you you think, really? Hapenn't And then there's a clip
Speaker 3: and it's very much like I'm just asking questions. This
Speaker 3: has nothing. This has nothing to do with the fact
Speaker 3: that I went double down hard on birth certificate conspiracies
Speaker 3: and George W. Bush conspiracies. This is different and I
Speaker 3: am trustworthy, incredible.
Speaker 2: It just sucks because that is essentially what we've already
Speaker 2: done in this episode.
Speaker 3: But it's a good question because strong is correct. By
Speaker 3: the way, folks, Campbell was indeed an experienced swimmer, But
Speaker 3: there were also people who so a lot of responses
Speaker 3: to this one. There were people who replied and said, hey,
Speaker 3: I live in the area, like I live in Martha's vineyard,
Speaker 3: and even if you're an experienced swimmer, it is easy
Speaker 3: to get stuck in the mud at the bottom of
Speaker 3: the pond. You can get pulled in and you might
Speaker 3: not have the arm strength to pull yourself out. And
Speaker 3: then of course there were the folks who were like,
Speaker 3: definitely and also my other conspiracy. It's me, Liz Krackin.
Speaker 3: I think Campbell was murdered because quote Tafari Campbell isn't
Speaker 3: the only person died inexplicably in Obama's orbit. Did you
Speaker 3: know that the woman who verified the authenticity of Obama's
Speaker 3: birth certificate, Loretta Fuddy, was the only person to die
Speaker 3: in a plane crash in Hawaii in twenty thirteen. Every
Speaker 3: time I survived.
Speaker 4: Come on, oh okay, sorry, I understand a particular plane crash,
Speaker 4: he was the only one to die. It would have
Speaker 4: been funny, extra funny if she was saying that she's
Speaker 4: the only person that died in a plane crash.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true that Loretta Fuddy did die in a
Speaker 3: light aircraft crash. Authority said it was catastrophic engine failure.
Speaker 3: But what we see here again is the game of
Speaker 3: conspiratorial telephone. Someone is taking a question and they're taking
Speaker 3: there like Krackin is a very big QAnon enthusiast right.
Speaker 4: There, cherry picking a working in reverse to get to
Speaker 4: the conclusion that they would enjoy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's still like, Loretta Fuddy died in a
Speaker 2: light aircraft crash, and we've seen how light aircraft crashes
Speaker 2: can function.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well it's not. It's not the first time that
Speaker 4: that's flown just around in terms of like the potential
Speaker 4: conspiracy surrounding the deaths of prominent individuals or government officials,
Speaker 4: et cetera. Just like why the drowning thing seems like
Speaker 4: such a good cover, especially in that first case we
Speaker 4: mentioned where the water was so cold they couldn't even
Speaker 4: tell when the time of death was. And like all
Speaker 4: of the things that happens, you know, drowning just kind
Speaker 4: of leaves no trace, has a tendency to wash away
Speaker 4: any physical evidence and all that, and there's a good
Speaker 4: cover story of like you know, they got swept up
Speaker 4: in the riptide or the flash floods, or caught his
Speaker 4: foot in the mud, drowned in a puddle.
Speaker 3: These are great points because folks, if you are not
Speaker 3: worry about someone finding the body, drowning can actually be
Speaker 3: a fairly effective form of assassination. And that's not us
Speaker 3: saying it, that's history saying it. Because to Knowl's point,
Speaker 3: if it's a body of moving water, it can carry
Speaker 3: the remains. It can also do a lot of forensic
Speaker 3: removal for you. Right, So when you are conducting an autopsy.
Speaker 3: Something that could be purposeful drowning can sometimes look like
Speaker 3: accidental drowning.
Speaker 4: There's no escape pension, not to mention if there's crabs, you.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, see the Chattahoochee River in the Atlanta missing
Speaker 2: and murdered case. Just we talked about it a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then you know, we have to be fair.
Speaker 3: At no point from the first death to now, as
Speaker 3: we record August seventh, has either investigation or any investigation
Speaker 3: by any official law enforcement outfit found any evidence contradicting
Speaker 3: those conclusions of death by accidental drowning. So the question
Speaker 3: then becomes is there something in common? Is there a connection?
Speaker 3: Is it just that both people worked for one of
Speaker 3: the most prestigious places on the planet and then died
Speaker 3: in a similar way? Or does the story go deeper?
Speaker 4: Eight feed deep?
Speaker 2: Hmm, Here's why I mentioned the Epstein files. What of
Speaker 2: the jerky of it all? Guys?
Speaker 4: Do we recall this?
Speaker 2: Do we recall the beef jerky?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Human everybody.
Speaker 2: Everybody wanted Epstein's jerky for some reason, and they needed
Speaker 2: more jerky.
Speaker 4: Because it fortified them.
Speaker 2: Yes, Look, I know that that doesn't mean human meat.
Speaker 2: It means it's weird that people were so in to
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Epstein's jerky and how he got it and how
Speaker 2: he procured it and got it produced and the guy
Speaker 2: from it. Yeah, and what was the what was that
Speaker 2: restaurant the chef that made the jerky allegedly? Do you
Speaker 2: remember this?
Speaker 3: Oh? Right, do you remember this?
Speaker 4: No, you're talking about I don't remember the name of
Speaker 4: the restaurant. In fact, this is the first time. Maybe
Speaker 4: I'm curtain, but we talked about it. I just don't
Speaker 4: remember the jerky talk. Sorry, Yeah, I brought it to you,
Speaker 4: brought it to me. I brought the jerky talk you
Speaker 4: brought yes, Well, yeah, you know, we talk about a
Speaker 4: lot of things, guys. I'm sorry, jerky talk flew around.
Speaker 3: Where are we going with this one?
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 3: Where do you want to go?
Speaker 2: You can see why there are so many rumors that
Speaker 2: float around about potentially, you know, these these darker things
Speaker 2: that have existed forever, right, They that start in a
Speaker 2: lot of different places, sometimes in anti Semitism, sometimes in fear,
Speaker 2: sometimes in a classist kind of struggle against these royalty
Speaker 2: that have feasts and these kinds of things. Room about
Speaker 2: what these people could be getting up to, right, and
Speaker 2: fears about what it might be, and also caricatures, because
Speaker 2: it's almost getting back at the people that that do
Speaker 2: in real ways control your life or at least hold
Speaker 2: sway over you. These rumors of no, they eat people,
Speaker 2: they drink blood that you know, this kind of thing
Speaker 2: these persists in. They're out there and they have been
Speaker 2: for a long time. It is weird to see them
Speaker 2: now filtered through the Epstein files, with things like jerky
Speaker 2: that have actual some like celebrity chefs that are attached
Speaker 2: to the name that do appear fishy and strange. But
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean they have anything to do with the
Speaker 2: deaths of these two people we've been talking about today.
Speaker 2: It just means that that stuff is out there right now,
Speaker 2: and it's getting harder and harder to figure out what's
Speaker 2: true and what's not. And that's all I have to say.
Speaker 3: Okay, oh, okay, okay, all right. And at this point, folks,
Speaker 3: investigations into both of these cases have been closed. Much
Speaker 3: of the conspiratorial chatter has faded away. But for the
Speaker 3: true believers, there is still stuff they don't want you
Speaker 3: to know. We want to know your thoughts again. Our
Speaker 3: thoughts are with the friends and families of these people
Speaker 3: who tragically passed away. Thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 3: What do you make of these deaths? Do you think
Speaker 3: one or both are suspicious? Or is this another case
Speaker 3: of people trying to put patterns where there aren't any.
Speaker 3: We can't wait to hear from you. There are many
Speaker 3: ways to find us online, and.
Speaker 4: If you want to get in touch with us, you
Speaker 4: can do so by reaching out to the handles Conspiracy
Speaker 4: Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff Show where we exist on the internet.
Speaker 2: Our phone number is one eight three three std WYTK.
Speaker 2: When you call in, tell us your thoughts on I
Speaker 2: believe his name was Francis Derby. I think that was
Speaker 2: the guy that we talked about with the jerky in
Speaker 2: the Epstein files, Derby Jerky, something about that. I think
Speaker 2: that's what it was. God, remember, I can't get a
Speaker 2: bit Cannibal parts. The name of the restaurant was Cannibal.
Speaker 4: No it was not. Yes, No, you've told us about this, Matt,
Speaker 4: I don't remember. I think you're mistaken. I have no
Speaker 4: recollection of Cannibal the Jerky restaurant. That's too good. I
Speaker 4: just I would think that I'm not I'm not saying
Speaker 4: that I didn't. I'm just saying I'm shocked that I
Speaker 4: have no recollection of that, because that is quite on
Speaker 4: the nose.
Speaker 2: Well, you know what, call us in and tell us
Speaker 2: if you have recollection of that. Uh, it's really simple
Speaker 2: to voicemail system. You'll figure it out. Hey, you can
Speaker 2: contact us by email.
Speaker 3: We are the entities the read each piece of correspondence
Speaker 3: we receive. Be well aware yet to ut afraid. Sometimes
Speaker 3: the void writes back, and actually is writing back to
Speaker 3: several of us as we record this evening. So find
Speaker 3: us out here in the dark. Give us your favorite
Speaker 3: random fact. We'll give you one in return. Conspiracy at
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