Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller and I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is
Speaker 1: hot pursuit.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: So we have both been excited to talk to Tom
Speaker 3: Wagner of Nighthead Capital for a while now, so he's
Speaker 3: agreed to come in and talk to us. Let's get
Speaker 3: straight into it. I want to just first off say
Speaker 3: we both listened to Barrio Holtz podcast and we loved it.
Speaker 3: And I always loved Barry's podcast, but Hannah, you're the
Speaker 3: one who turned me on to the Tom Wagner episode
Speaker 3: and it was great, right.
Speaker 4: It was really good.
Speaker 1: It was very far reaching, and I think it really
Speaker 1: set a good platform for where we can jump off of.
Speaker 1: So anyone listening, go listen to the Barry Barry podcast
Speaker 1: if you want to hear about more of the financial
Speaker 1: side and sports teams.
Speaker 4: And Tom Brady.
Speaker 1: And those things, because we're going to focus on cars.
Speaker 1: Really yeah, for these purposes.
Speaker 3: So let's start with your company is Nighthead Capital, and
Speaker 3: you may investments in a lot of different assets, but
Speaker 3: is it still like the distressed debt thing where you
Speaker 3: kind of cut your teeth.
Speaker 5: We do a lot of distressed investing, which I would
Speaker 5: characterize as maybe not distressed as in the purest form anymore.
Speaker 5: We invest in businesses that are going through transitions. Sometimes
Speaker 5: that's a turnaround, maybe operationally, maybe financially, maybe strategically, and
Speaker 5: we try to find places to deploy capital where our
Speaker 5: capital and our expertise can make a difference. And we've
Speaker 5: found some interesting investments in the automobile slash mobility space
Speaker 5: broadly defined, where we believe we can make a positive impact.
Speaker 3: So Revology and Singer, we've talked about Hertz, I think
Speaker 3: is a famous one. And then you have a WEC
Speaker 3: racing team, right Yoda, Yeah, are those the big automotive
Speaker 3: investments that you have?
Speaker 5: Those are certainly the biggest. There are a few other small,
Speaker 5: more venture type things that that we don't really talk about,
Speaker 5: and by small I mean really tiny dollars, but where
Speaker 5: we think that they are strategically important to us. And
Speaker 5: then others that are adjacent to those businesses where we
Speaker 5: think we can bolt them on and grow the existing
Speaker 5: investments that we have. But those four that you mentioned
Speaker 5: have a common thread. We have a view that mobility
Speaker 5: is going to move with increasing speed towards electrification because
Speaker 5: economically and for other reasons socially environmentally, it makes the
Speaker 5: most sense. We were bitterly and hurts. But the thesis
Speaker 5: that led us to make that decision to purchase evs
Speaker 5: is intact, if you hold the cars for a long
Speaker 5: enough period of time, the rows are much better than ices,
Speaker 5: and there are lots of other advantages there, but the
Speaker 5: fundamental reality is that with most evs they don't inspire
Speaker 5: the same kind of passion that certain other vehicles do.
Speaker 5: And we felt that as people move towards electric vehicles
Speaker 5: as the choice of transportation and to get from point
Speaker 5: A to point B, there would be a rise in
Speaker 5: interest in vehicles and inspire great passion because people would
Speaker 5: use the evs as kind of their mode of transportation,
Speaker 5: low cost, you know, high tech. I mean Tesla's you know,
Speaker 5: are a great example of that. They're fantastic vehicles in
Speaker 5: getting A to B very very safely, very very economically.
Speaker 5: But on the weekend, maybe you want to go out
Speaker 5: and have a different experience. Let's call it digital versus analog.
Speaker 5: The analog experience for those who are car nuts, I think,
Speaker 5: like the three of us and probably most of your listeners,
Speaker 5: involves more than getting point A to point B.
Speaker 6: It's the feel, it's the smell.
Speaker 5: It's the sound, the vibration, the skill required to move
Speaker 5: some of these vehicles with some level of speed and safety.
Speaker 5: And we thought that that would continue and that has happened.
Speaker 5: There's been a massive rise. Now that rise, we had
Speaker 5: a big blip post COVID, and the day of reckoning
Speaker 5: is now upon us when demand has kind of come
Speaker 5: back to earth a little bit, and that's going to
Speaker 5: cause a big shakeout. But I think the long term
Speaker 5: trend continues to rise upward and we're going to see
Speaker 5: more and more interest in these really really high quality
Speaker 5: you know, non ev you know, ice, restored vehicles, reimagined vehicles.
Speaker 6: That whole sector is going to continue to explode.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about Singer in particular
Speaker 1: and what characteristics you saw in that company that made
Speaker 1: you know, we really have some potential specifically with Singer. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I think when when we made the investment, we looked
Speaker 5: at it and said, is this something that's difficult to replicate?
Speaker 5: And I think as much as said, well, there's lots of.
Speaker 6: People that restore porsches, there's lots of people.
Speaker 5: That restore cars, there's nobody that restores them like Singer
Speaker 5: and that's why if you look at every you know,
Speaker 5: vehicle seller and reseller globally, if you look at all
Speaker 5: of them, lump them all together, Singers number two and
Speaker 5: average selling price behind only Bugatti. You know, once you
Speaker 5: get b On say ten units twenty units a year,
Speaker 5: and Singers you know, in the vicinity.
Speaker 6: Of two hundred vehicles per year.
Speaker 3: And that's why the way, that's amazing because Bugatti makes
Speaker 3: the car from scratch, like they do it all.
Speaker 2: Singer takes another.
Speaker 3: Vehicle and then modifies it and they still get the
Speaker 3: second highest asking price.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a it's a reimagination of an existing Porsche
Speaker 5: nine sixty four, which is the vehicle upon which Singer
Speaker 5: performs its services in behalf of its customers. You know,
Speaker 5: that reimagination process is everything other than what I'd characterize
Speaker 5: as the body in white or the frame. So you
Speaker 5: maintain the frame and you and you know, everything else
Speaker 5: is kind of upgraded to the specifications of the customer.
Speaker 5: And the level of specialization or customization is mind boggling.
Speaker 5: There are no two Singers that are even close to
Speaker 5: being the same. You know, you've got to be a
Speaker 5: real nerd to notice the differences. But I think if Hannah,
Speaker 5: you know, stepped into a car, she'd come, my, gush,
Speaker 5: look at this one.
Speaker 6: This is but you know the rest nerd. You're not
Speaker 6: a nerd, you car nerd, which we.
Speaker 2: All know is very cool.
Speaker 4: They take it as a badge of honor.
Speaker 6: Yeah it should be.
Speaker 5: But you know you're like, oh, this is the hounds
Speaker 5: Tooth seat that you know references this model right exactly.
Speaker 5: And you know, if you look at the ductail spoilerund
Speaker 5: the Singer DLS, which is sort of their ultra rare
Speaker 5: incredible vehicles, you'd say, well, that you know, you know,
Speaker 5: draws some comparisons to a seventy three RS. So there's
Speaker 5: lots of you know, references to older Porsches that you know,
Speaker 5: bits and pieces that the customer says, well, I'd like
Speaker 5: to have that in my car. And I think what
Speaker 5: makes Singer special is that they do it with an
Speaker 5: enormous amount of love for the brand Porsche, an enormous
Speaker 5: amount of respect for the customer and what they want.
Speaker 5: It's not just about slapping something together and saying here,
Speaker 5: you know, let's make it work. Most of these companies
Speaker 5: that perform this service don't actually make money.
Speaker 3: But you want to make money with that investment, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: we can.
Speaker 6: The challenge is getting to scale.
Speaker 1: That's what I was going to ask about, because hasn't
Speaker 1: Singer paused production of the nine sixty four and we're
Speaker 1: sort of waiting for a nine thirty Turbo, and so
Speaker 1: the DLS we're also waiting for. So are those pauses
Speaker 1: changing how you're looking?
Speaker 3: Wait, by the way, can I just brief pause. I
Speaker 3: don't know nearly as much about Singer as the two
Speaker 3: of you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So while we're.
Speaker 3: Asking Tom questions, let's also explain to me, like what
Speaker 3: is the DLS?
Speaker 2: What it is that.
Speaker 5: All the all the vehicles that Singer offers restoration services
Speaker 5: on are based on the Porsche nine sixty four, which
Speaker 5: was manufactured between eighty nine and ninety four, and each
Speaker 5: of the vehicles references an older Porsche different variants, and
Speaker 5: so the classic was the car that was best known
Speaker 5: for Singer, you know, and their customers. Those of were
Speaker 5: coming towards the end of that run. I think in
Speaker 5: the next eighteen months or so.
Speaker 6: Those will all be produced.
Speaker 5: The car that references to nine thirty Turbo, which is
Speaker 5: currently characterized as the class Turbo that vehicle is in
Speaker 5: production and deliveries have just started. So Hannah, I will
Speaker 5: I will drive mine it good.
Speaker 6: Good in July. Thanks.
Speaker 4: Are you going up the hill?
Speaker 5: No, I don't have my FI license, so I won't
Speaker 5: be allowed to drive up the hill, I know, but
Speaker 5: I'll drive it on the circuit on the Monday.
Speaker 3: So that's like, that's the Steve McQueen, like the widow Maker, right,
Speaker 3: it's a widow it was.
Speaker 1: This is only for those who don't know how to
Speaker 1: drive exactly exactly.
Speaker 5: We gotta wait for that boost. This is a modern version.
Speaker 5: Boost comes on more quickly. It's it's a really very
Speaker 5: special special car. Modern uh traction control and ABS and
Speaker 5: some things that you can turn on or off that
Speaker 5: allow the vehicle to be driven on wet roads by
Speaker 5: an inexperienced driver with with relative safety. You know, within
Speaker 5: the bounds of physics. We don't haven't yet invented a
Speaker 5: car that can overcome the laws of physics.
Speaker 6: But you know, then.
Speaker 5: There's the DLS Turbo, which is probably you know a
Speaker 5: few months away from having its first driveable prototype in
Speaker 5: the hands of journalists. And then you know, some other
Speaker 5: cars in the queue that will be unveiled, you know,
Speaker 5: in the next year or two. But the cars, the
Speaker 5: four cars that I mentioned in including DLS which is
Speaker 5: a full run that's been fully delivered and is out,
Speaker 5: those four cars will take us, you know, through the
Speaker 5: next couple of years and beyond. I think the waiting
Speaker 5: list is still in the vicinity of three three and
Speaker 5: a half years.
Speaker 4: So so basically you're saying, look, the model.
Speaker 1: That you saw when you got involved with the company
Speaker 1: remains the same.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's your goal, your intent.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 5: It's you know, it's to produce something that is beyond
Speaker 5: you know, reproach as it relates to the quality. You know,
Speaker 5: these have to be super reliable cars. So I have
Speaker 5: a DLS that I drove from London to LamaH for
Speaker 5: race weekend. That's a long drive sometimes at you know,
Speaker 5: relatively rapid pace. Uh, and you know, it's a it's
Speaker 5: a flawless experience. I mean, these are you know, these
Speaker 5: are cars that you can sit in for six hours.
Speaker 3: And I see here on the internet DLS is for
Speaker 3: Dynamics and Lightweighting Studies.
Speaker 2: That's right, and it's the.
Speaker 3: One I've seen these like, you know, on social media
Speaker 3: with the ridiculously wide haunches.
Speaker 6: Yes, and yeah, this one's even wider than one you're
Speaker 6: lev I just.
Speaker 2: Don't know enough about that.
Speaker 3: And in the world of Plortia, there's so much to know,
Speaker 3: and there's so many acronyms that I sometimes feel like
Speaker 3: I can't keep up.
Speaker 6: You can go way down the rabbit hole.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned what's next for Singer, and I
Speaker 1: don't expect you to actually say, but is there any
Speaker 1: room to go the way of a roof where Singer
Speaker 1: would actually build their own cars versus re imagining.
Speaker 6: That's a great question. I think.
Speaker 5: I think the brand would allow Singer to pursue just
Speaker 5: about anything it wanted to do. I think, you know,
Speaker 5: for the time being, the company is really very focused
Speaker 5: on executing as best it can on the strategy of
Speaker 5: reimagining Porsches on behalf of its customers. And that's a
Speaker 5: great business. You know, are there's a long pipeline of
Speaker 5: things that can be done. You know, vehicles that can
Speaker 5: be reimagined that I think, you know, would be welcome by.
Speaker 6: All Porsche enthusiasts.
Speaker 5: And look, I think the company knows that not everyone
Speaker 5: wants a reimagined car. Some are the purists, They want
Speaker 5: the seventy three r US exactly as it was. Others
Speaker 5: may say, well, now I'd like to see a different
Speaker 5: version of that car. What could be done if you
Speaker 5: modernize it? And I think that's there's plenty to do
Speaker 5: just with that. And our capital was intended to help
Speaker 5: the company get to a place where its production could
Speaker 5: support the fixed costs and the business that are necessary
Speaker 5: to create vehicles of this quality and with these kinds
Speaker 5: of finishes.
Speaker 2: And I was wondering about that.
Speaker 3: How did you get involved in what kind of investment
Speaker 3: do you have in Singer?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, we were asked to refinance a facility that
Speaker 5: they had in place from a lender, and you know,
Speaker 5: did that and provided some other work and capital facilities
Speaker 5: and allowed them to just take the capital, you know,
Speaker 5: in the most efficient form possible, while allowing Rob the
Speaker 5: founder and Maz the CEO, to really direct the strategy
Speaker 5: of the business. They've got a spectacular team of key
Speaker 5: executives there and some fantastic engineers that the craftsmen are unbelievable.
Speaker 5: I've been to a lot of you know, really high
Speaker 5: end vehicle manufacturing facilities and singers. You know, when they
Speaker 5: look at the finishes, you look at the body work,
Speaker 5: you look at the paint. It's as good as anybody
Speaker 5: out there. Gorgeous and and by the way you're starting,
Speaker 5: you know, with a company as your reference. In Porsche,
Speaker 5: I think does it as well or better than anyone
Speaker 5: if you look at the tolerances and Porsche panels, you know,
Speaker 5: as compared to some other very very hand automobile companies.
Speaker 5: You know, it's really hard to get into where Porsche
Speaker 5: is pretty.
Speaker 2: Good, build quality, very good.
Speaker 3: But how did they know to ask you? I mean, like,
Speaker 3: were you already into Porsche?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 5: I mean was I into Porsche's Yeah? I mean I
Speaker 5: loved cars, but I grew up not being able to
Speaker 5: afford any. My first car was a seventy eight Corolla
Speaker 5: SR five hatchback that was nmission of course, yeah.
Speaker 6: Rusting away.
Speaker 4: How much did you pay for that car?
Speaker 6: Zero?
Speaker 5: Because my dad said, if you can get it running,
Speaker 5: you can drive it. And so I quickly learned how
Speaker 5: to overhaul an engine and do breaks and a series
Speaker 5: of other things in the driveway. Not the safest thing
Speaker 5: in the world, you know, like in the old days
Speaker 5: without jack stands like not smart.
Speaker 2: But I bet you still love driving it.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, I don't have it anymore.
Speaker 2: No, no, I mean all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, Like it was awesome.
Speaker 5: You taught myself how to drive a stick on it
Speaker 5: and yeah. But I think you know, when you have
Speaker 5: those experiences, you fall in love with cars and you
Speaker 5: imagine that it's not that it's not the slowest thing
Speaker 5: on the road, and you imagine that it doesn't have
Speaker 5: to rush through you know, the door panels. But you know,
Speaker 5: as as you get older and into life, you know,
Speaker 5: hopefully you can afford something better. And I the weird
Speaker 5: thing is, two weeks before the Porsche investment and became available,
Speaker 5: our partner in the Hurts investments of firm Culture Taris,
Speaker 5: and one of the founders there is a guy named
Speaker 5: Greg O'Hara, and you know, we were just talking and
Speaker 5: he's like, is there anything you always wanted but you
Speaker 5: wouldn't leave still buy. I'm like, yeah, there's this one
Speaker 5: car and he's like, yeah, me too, and he's like,
Speaker 5: you know, he said, my thing's a singer. I'm like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, that's mine as well. And he's like,
Speaker 5: why don't you have one? I'm like cause't. I just
Speaker 5: can't let myself do it. It's too special, right, It's
Speaker 5: always that thing I held on a platform. And so
Speaker 5: literally two weeks later, totally unrelated, I get a in
Speaker 5: a meeting or having a barbecue with somebody and he says, oh,
Speaker 5: you must be looking at Singer, given your view on
Speaker 5: vehicles and you know, this kind of digital versus analog world.
Speaker 5: And I said, no, there's no way Singer needs any
Speaker 5: financial assistants. They get a multi year backlog and he's like, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: they're looking for some capital. And so we get connected
Speaker 5: to the lawyer that was representing him, and one thing
Speaker 5: led to another. And what's nice about that is, you know,
Speaker 5: we've learned a ton about the space and the industry,
Speaker 5: and I think that we've been able to add value
Speaker 5: and helping the company think strategically. And what I would
Speaker 5: say is that I think Singers now have a view
Speaker 5: that you know, maybe it's a little bit more of
Speaker 5: a luxury brand than what we originally thought. And with
Speaker 5: all things luxury, the goal is sell less for more.
Speaker 5: So let's not push the sales higher. Let's push sales,
Speaker 5: you know, target sales units lower. Maybe get a little
Speaker 5: bit additional price, but make it more exclusive.
Speaker 6: And I think, you know that's a really I hate that.
Speaker 4: I won't love it. I love it one time.
Speaker 3: You know, Keanu Reeves makes these arch motorcycles, of course,
Speaker 3: and I ran into him and makes a m Doukatti
Speaker 3: World premiere in Milan a few years ago, and he
Speaker 3: was saying he was talking to the CEO, and I
Speaker 3: kind of barge in their conversation. He was saying, they're
Speaker 3: making another version and the one they sells are like
Speaker 3: seventy five grande.
Speaker 2: I can't really justify that. So I was like, oh, cool, are.
Speaker 3: You going to make one that's cheaper? And he said no,
Speaker 3: it's going to cost twice the price.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I'm priced.
Speaker 6: Out, all right.
Speaker 1: I know, well that is interesting because I was going
Speaker 1: to ask if you considered Singer to be a luxury
Speaker 1: asset for sure, and do you value that differently than
Speaker 1: like an infrastructure asset, for instance.
Speaker 5: So infrastructure, you know, you know, in a reasonably low
Speaker 5: rate environment like the more we're in now, I mean
Speaker 5: it's not as low as it as it was, but
Speaker 5: you know, infrastructure assets are command high multiples if the
Speaker 5: durability of earnings is very stable. But if we say,
Speaker 5: let's compare it to another manufacturing business, it's worth a multiple,
Speaker 5: you know, like if a manufacturing business its ten percent
Speaker 5: ebitdam margins is worth you know, seven times ebitdes six
Speaker 5: seven times. But you know, Singers with their margins is
Speaker 5: worth you know, mid teens, high teens, which is consistent
Speaker 5: with where if you were to graph out not Ferrari,
Speaker 5: ferraris a little bit higher because that brand is really
Speaker 5: pretty spectacular.
Speaker 6: But there's a case to.
Speaker 5: Be made that you know, Singer represents one of the
Speaker 5: very few luxury brands that are based in the US,
Speaker 5: and that was you know, really created in the US,
Speaker 5: and me Rob done a great job of bringing that
Speaker 5: California car ethos you know, into.
Speaker 6: The business, and.
Speaker 5: I think his ability to create this zeitgeist of you know,
Speaker 5: of Singer is is really incredible. And Maz and the
Speaker 5: team have done an amazing job of marketing it globally
Speaker 5: and trying to do it in a way that that
Speaker 5: respects our partners and and you know, at the same time,
Speaker 5: you know, makes it a business that can grow and
Speaker 5: be profitable.
Speaker 1: This may derail our whole conversation, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: ask it anyway, because I'm really fascinated by what you
Speaker 1: said about, you know, sort of mentioning and verbalizing that
Speaker 1: you had singer on a pedestal basically, and two weeks
Speaker 1: later you have an opportunity to get involved. And I
Speaker 1: remember in Barrie's conversation you mentioned a friend I think
Speaker 1: of your dad's when you were very young, who asked
Speaker 1: what you wanted and you told him, and in a
Speaker 1: matter of months later, you were You were there, you
Speaker 1: were in the Cayman Islands with a boat making the
Speaker 1: amount of money that you had said, how often does
Speaker 1: this happen to you? And what is this magic that
Speaker 1: you are seemingly able to conjure when you speak things?
Speaker 4: And then the universe?
Speaker 6: Yes, it's not a superpower everybody has.
Speaker 5: It's it's about manifesting an outcome. You just you know,
Speaker 5: you have to be open minded to it that you
Speaker 5: know there's a god.
Speaker 6: It's going to sound super corny, but.
Speaker 5: There's a really good book called The Secret, and if
Speaker 5: you haven't read it, you should read it. That's for
Speaker 5: everybody listening. I don't care how successful you are, you
Speaker 5: should read the book. And you probably if you're if
Speaker 5: you happen to be very successful. You're probably either very
Speaker 5: luckily lucky or you're you're already you know, using some
Speaker 5: of these skills. I think you have to be open to,
Speaker 5: you know, whether we call it the universe or we
Speaker 5: just call it, you know, karma, we call it, you know,
Speaker 5: the coincidences of life. You have to be open to
Speaker 5: allowing these things to come into your sphere. And I think,
Speaker 5: you know, as it relates to Singer, that was something
Speaker 5: we cared about, and sure enough it presented itself. Racing
Speaker 5: was something that we thought would be really interesting and
Speaker 5: we were like, Okay, we're not going to go out
Speaker 5: and buy into an F one team and pay a
Speaker 5: really high price where we own a minority stake and
Speaker 5: our capital doesn't do anything. You know, we want to
Speaker 5: find something where we can actually make a difference. And
Speaker 5: sure enough, you know, that ended up happening. So I
Speaker 5: do think these things can happen. It doesn't always work,
Speaker 5: and sometimes bad things happen, and you get to figure
Speaker 5: out why we don't always get it right. You know,
Speaker 5: we certainly didn't get everything right and hurts, but I
Speaker 5: think we've learned a lot from it. And as you
Speaker 5: go through life, whether you're investing or you know, working
Speaker 5: in a different job or industry. You have to take
Speaker 5: your mistakes as a gift and learn from them and
Speaker 5: build on them and try to do better the next
Speaker 5: time you go out.
Speaker 6: That's all we can do.
Speaker 3: So how much of I mean the investment in Singer
Speaker 3: and in Revology and Yoda, those have to be different
Speaker 3: than the other, like purely business investments you.
Speaker 2: Make right because you love this product.
Speaker 5: It's a different The standard's the same, Yeah, the standard
Speaker 5: is we've got to make a good return. Singer will be,
Speaker 5: you know, a good, very good investment for us. Revology
Speaker 5: will be a very good investment for us.
Speaker 6: You know. On on that topic, the reason that we
Speaker 6: pursued Revology is we felt that.
Speaker 5: There was an opportunity for them to become one of
Speaker 5: the very first companies.
Speaker 6: To pursue production under the Fast Act in the US,
Speaker 6: which is the formerly known as the Small Vehicle Manufacturer Law,
Speaker 6: which you know, my guess is most people are like,
Speaker 6: what the heck is that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, please enlighten us.
Speaker 5: So the fast Act has now been fully you know,
Speaker 5: written and put into law. It is a provision that
Speaker 5: allows a small vehicle manufacturer, which is less than five
Speaker 5: thousand units a year to go to an original OEM
Speaker 5: and get a license for IP for a vehicle that's
Speaker 5: over twenty five years old, that small vehicle manufacturer that
Speaker 5: can then reimagine and re manufacture that original car.
Speaker 6: And re imagine means.
Speaker 5: Tolerant exterior toalansers tolerances within ten percent, which is pretty wide,
Speaker 5: you know, pretty wide variants, and interior that can be
Speaker 5: entirely new. The only requirement is that the drive train
Speaker 5: must be current era emissions compliant and if you if
Speaker 5: you achieve all those things, there's no safety hym alligation,
Speaker 5: so you can can use the safety requirements of the
Speaker 5: original vehicle and you get a new vin So now
Speaker 5: everyone says, well, that's much lower cost than because you
Speaker 5: could start with a carbon tub. So you could say,
Speaker 5: I'm going to make a you know nineteen you know,
Speaker 5: seventy Ford Bronco start with a carbon tub. Very easy
Speaker 5: to manufacture off a carbon tup versus one of the
Speaker 5: rolling chassis that you can buy.
Speaker 6: Because you have a really rigid.
Speaker 5: Frame, it's you know, everything's perfectly square. The problem is
Speaker 5: you've got to go through the process of getting current
Speaker 5: your emissions compliant drive train and then incorporating it into that,
Speaker 5: and then getting all the engineering right and making sure
Speaker 5: that you have a good, safe product even though you
Speaker 5: don't you know, you don't may not have the requirements,
Speaker 5: it's still.
Speaker 3: And Ford could say, well, Ford's got.
Speaker 6: To believe in you enough to allow you to do it.
Speaker 6: And I use Ford as an example.
Speaker 5: You use any any oem a car over twenty five
Speaker 5: years old, which brings you, by the way, it's scary
Speaker 5: as it's to.
Speaker 6: Say, you know, into the late nineties, so there's a
Speaker 6: whole plathora of really cool cars that you could do well.
Speaker 3: And by the way, it's interesting that you chose the
Speaker 3: Bronco because I know a lot of people are skeptical
Speaker 3: of these resto mod companies because there's a whole wave
Speaker 3: of Bronco knockoff garages among.
Speaker 2: Them that fall apart.
Speaker 3: And Hannah and I talk about this a lot because
Speaker 3: I'm like, I'm like, hey, Revology is a different story
Speaker 3: because they're building it from the ground up. They have
Speaker 3: actual engineers that used to work at Ford's Special Vehicle Unit,
Speaker 3: who are you know, have built their own factory in Orlando,
Speaker 3: so so help us. Obviously, you're gonna you're obviously you're
Speaker 3: talking about to convince me.
Speaker 5: Yes, Yes, I would say we've we have looked at
Speaker 5: a great number of and I'm going to use the
Speaker 5: word restomode as a non pejorative term to say, you know,
Speaker 5: it captures that whole and to clarify and yeah, and
Speaker 5: just say, like anyone that takes an old car and
Speaker 5: makes it new, newer, you know, reimagines it, rebuilds it,
Speaker 5: whatever you want, however you want to describe it. They're
Speaker 5: not all created equal, and we've looked at a lot
Speaker 5: of them, and I would say, I'll say two things. One,
Speaker 5: Revology does things very differently than nearly all, not all,
Speaker 5: but nearly all of the other manufacturers out there, and
Speaker 5: they do some things that are in fact different than
Speaker 5: every other, uh one of those companies. The second thing
Speaker 5: is that for all these businesses, you know, they take
Speaker 5: a deposit from the customer, they then go up on
Speaker 5: the car. There's there's a sequence of payments and I
Speaker 5: delivered car. When you take a deposit from a customer upfront,
Speaker 5: it's you know, you put that on your balance sheet
Speaker 5: and the account is working capital. And they will all say,
Speaker 5: we don't have debt, Well, you don't have debt, but
Speaker 5: you have a payment that you owe, or you have
Speaker 5: a product future product that you ow.
Speaker 6: To the customer. It's the same thing as debt.
Speaker 5: When you deliver the customer, you've got to repay it
Speaker 5: by way of you know, releasing that off your balance sheet.
Speaker 5: And when we saw the huge explosion and demand for
Speaker 5: these cars post COVID and kind of late twenty through
Speaker 5: you know, mid early to mid twenty twenty two, demand
Speaker 5: goes through the roof, all these deposits flow in, they
Speaker 5: build the cars, then the deposits leave the balance sheet.
Speaker 5: What happens, Well, it's like you have to repay a
Speaker 5: bunch of debt and if you haven't played, if you
Speaker 5: haven't planned for that, that release of working capital is very,
Speaker 5: very difficult to manage for a small company, and so
Speaker 5: a lot of these businesses out there are struggling to
Speaker 5: remain solvent in the context of a world where demand
Speaker 5: is shrunk, you know, kind of coming back to trend line,
Speaker 5: which means sales for the next over the course of
Speaker 5: the last year and probably for the next year or
Speaker 5: two will be lower than a steady state number of sales.
Speaker 3: So it's a target rich environment for you.
Speaker 5: It is, but most of these companies don't. They're not
Speaker 5: going to make it because they haven't invested in the
Speaker 5: business and they don't have a differentiated product. So I
Speaker 5: would agree with Hannah that, you know, for many of
Speaker 5: these these companies that are they're really just large garages
Speaker 5: and they've they've got economies of scale in the sense
Speaker 5: that they're doing the same thing over and over, but
Speaker 5: they haven't done the engineering work. Revology is in fact,
Speaker 5: very very different. And Hannah, if you were to, you know,
Speaker 5: visit Revology, just do one simple thing.
Speaker 6: Just close the door.
Speaker 5: Oh really, just close the door own. I own two
Speaker 5: nineteen sixties Mustangs. Both are original that have been restored.
Speaker 5: They're in great condition. But if you close the door
Speaker 5: of those.
Speaker 6: Cars and you close the door of a Revology, that's
Speaker 6: not the same thing.
Speaker 4: I look forward to doing that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's good, and it's a good you know, I mean,
Speaker 5: and then it's you know, when you put it into gear,
Speaker 5: what happens, right, you get that lurch against your break pet.
Speaker 5: You know, we all we've all driven those old cars,
Speaker 5: and that's vertu. Yeah, it's very common. I mean, I
Speaker 5: gotta you know, I always joke my wife's got a
Speaker 5: fifty sixty Bird, and I'm like, it's the most deadly
Speaker 5: vehicle I've ever driven. I mean, it's a complete death trap.
Speaker 5: It's got a metal steering wheel that's right about.
Speaker 6: You know, jaw high.
Speaker 4: You know, it makes you feel alive.
Speaker 6: Now, you feel very alive, that's for sure.
Speaker 5: But those are you know, those are very realistic experience
Speaker 5: that are consistent with the time that those vehicles were
Speaker 5: engineered and made, because you know, look, it was just
Speaker 5: a different era. It was this seventy year old cars.
Speaker 5: The Revology vehicles don't feel like that. They don't drive
Speaker 5: like that. They don't they're not durable like that. They're
Speaker 5: they're modern pieces of machinery in every sense. They just
Speaker 5: look old and that's what makes them so fantastic.
Speaker 2: So how did you find?
Speaker 3: Tom Scarpello is the guy who presents the car, he's
Speaker 3: the founder. He also presents the car on the Leno clip,
Speaker 3: And if I were doing it.
Speaker 2: I would sell it like hotcakes, you know.
Speaker 3: But he's clearly an engineer because he's going into very
Speaker 3: minute yea detail of like how he created the door handle.
Speaker 5: You know, if you were the same Tom, you know,
Speaker 5: is his personality. It's not the same as a rob
Speaker 5: At singer, but they're similar in the sense that they
Speaker 5: don't sell their product. The product sells the product, and
Speaker 5: they just tell you their vision. You know, each comes
Speaker 5: in from a slightly different perspective. And rob as an
Speaker 5: artist and very much into the aesthetics, and Tom, you know,
Speaker 5: as an engineer and very much into what makes his
Speaker 5: cars truly spectacular from an engineering perspective. Both There's lots
Speaker 5: of overlap, by the way, with each of them, and
Speaker 5: so I think.
Speaker 2: Did you bog up with them at the same time.
Speaker 5: No, it was later we we developed a thesis more
Speaker 5: fully that these that these cars that inspire passion would
Speaker 5: continue to grow an interest, and we went out looking
Speaker 5: for another company to invest in one that we thought
Speaker 5: we could help become the first and potentially only, you know,
Speaker 5: fast act manufacturer, and Revology was the only one that
Speaker 5: we found that that that we thought had what it
Speaker 5: would take to be able to produce those vehicles.
Speaker 3: But there's no one else taking advantage of that long.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's others that will try.
Speaker 5: We didn't find anybody that we felt had everything it
Speaker 5: takes and I don't want to, you know, out of
Speaker 5: respect for what Revology's done, I won't. I won't say
Speaker 5: chapter and verse what it takes, but it's it's a lot,
Speaker 5: it's a lot of capital, it's a lot of engineering expertise,
Speaker 5: a lot of design expertise, and it's and it is
Speaker 5: a fantastic relationship with whichever OEM you know you'd like
Speaker 5: to get a license agreement with.
Speaker 6: They have to believe in you.
Speaker 5: It's sort of like, you know, any business relationship, you
Speaker 5: got to make sure your counterparty is going to be
Speaker 5: there and be around it. We hope that part of
Speaker 5: what we bring to the table is the financial stability
Speaker 5: to allow the counterparts to say, Okay, these guys will
Speaker 5: be here and they can do a good job and
Speaker 5: the customers don't need to worry about the deposits.
Speaker 4: What is in it for Ford?
Speaker 1: Obviously there's a licensing agreement that I'm sure is it
Speaker 1: very lucrative? Is it a little bit lucrative? You know,
Speaker 1: how does this benefit forward?
Speaker 5: I think I think it would be fair to say
Speaker 5: that it's very beneficial to the brand. You know, you're celebrating,
Speaker 5: you know, a vehicle that is decades old, obviously, you know,
Speaker 5: whatever vehicle they decide to do with, whichever OEM they
Speaker 5: decide to do it with. You know, you're celebrating that
Speaker 5: original vehicle in a very special way, and it brings
Speaker 5: it to a group of consumers that really aren't going
Speaker 5: to do that on their own. You know, the person
Speaker 5: who buys a Revology Mustang, you know, into into six
Speaker 5: figures for the car fully out of three hundred. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 5: they're not out shopping for It's not like they're choosing
Speaker 5: that over.
Speaker 4: You know, it's not cannibalizing anything nothing.
Speaker 5: In fact, they're more likely you know, to bring up
Speaker 5: their local dealer and ask for the new G T
Speaker 5: three Mustang, which they won't get because they are none available.
Speaker 5: But that but I think there it attaches them to
Speaker 5: a brand. They're probably more likely to go out in
Speaker 5: auction and look for, you know, one of the last
Speaker 5: two generations at GT forties. I just think that you know,
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, you say, oh, I've got this
Speaker 5: thing and i'd like to have, you know, the OEM's
Speaker 5: version of a great car, you know, the kind of
Speaker 5: greatest of great cars as well. So I think it's very,
Speaker 5: very beneficial to the brand. I think it enhances the brand.
Speaker 5: You know, I would tell you that in the case
Speaker 5: of Singer, there's been luxury brand businesses, you know that
Speaker 5: that have taken an interest in Singer and said, you know,
Speaker 5: there's there's got to be, you know, some value here
Speaker 5: that can be unlocked. And I think that shows that
Speaker 5: you are in fact creating something that's luxury.
Speaker 2: And you you mean like carrying or LVMH.
Speaker 3: Is I just mean that I won't interesting specifically, I
Speaker 3: mean that's what you mean.
Speaker 5: Yeah, in the realm of non auto luxury type companies,
Speaker 5: and you know, because they whether it's watches or what
Speaker 5: have you, that say, you know, this is something that's
Speaker 5: really interesting, and so you can think of really creative
Speaker 5: partnerships to pursue that celebrate both brands at the same time.
Speaker 5: And there's lots of that in racing and an auto
Speaker 5: generally speaking, right, I mean, look at the brands that
Speaker 5: are on the side of modern race cars, you know,
Speaker 5: particularly in F one, which I think from a brand.
Speaker 4: Value, I'm going to ask you about Formula one.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean F one is it's fantastic. It's I
Speaker 5: watch it every weekend, like it's not like it's a
Speaker 5: great surprise how things shake out. But I think what's
Speaker 5: great about it is that you are you know you're
Speaker 5: watching these masterful pieces of machinery.
Speaker 6: You know that you are attached.
Speaker 5: To something that's it's about the overall experience, like going
Speaker 5: enough one race isn't really about.
Speaker 6: Like being glued to the race.
Speaker 5: It's about everything else that goes on there. And I
Speaker 5: happen to think that the most underappreciated racing brand in
Speaker 5: the world is WEK World in Derby's Championship, where we
Speaker 5: have an investment in one of the teams.
Speaker 6: And I'll tell you why.
Speaker 5: I say that people watch sports and they get attached
Speaker 5: to sports for two reasons. You know, it's the tribalism element,
Speaker 5: where you can attach to something that makes you feel
Speaker 5: part of a community. Okay, I'll get to the tribalism
Speaker 5: in a second. And what WEC has the second is
Speaker 5: uncertainty of outcome. Okay, there is no sporting event in
Speaker 5: the world there's more than certainly about come on the
Speaker 5: twenty four hours of Lama. You don't have the slightest
Speaker 5: idea who's going to win that race. You can be
Speaker 5: twenty three hours into watching it. You have no idea
Speaker 5: is going to win. There's nothing else that goes on
Speaker 5: for that duration. Maybe cricket, but you know that that
Speaker 5: has zero certainty on how things are going to play out.
Speaker 5: And on the tribalism side, what's happened with the new
Speaker 5: l M D and l M D H entrance is
Speaker 5: it's brought in all the OEMs. So you have the
Speaker 5: major major manufacturers are getting involved and putting cars forward.
Speaker 5: You know, you've got Ferrari Portie for Ford in the
Speaker 5: GT three series, Lamborghini, We've got Cadillac in WEC and
Speaker 5: and the list goes on and on, and others that
Speaker 5: are lined up to come in that.
Speaker 6: That I won't name because I'm not sure whether it's public.
Speaker 5: Or not, but it's going to be fantastic, right And
Speaker 5: so you've got this incredible grid. By the way, you
Speaker 5: can be a customer as we are currently meaning you know,
Speaker 5: you go buy a car and hire somebody to race
Speaker 5: it for you, and you can actually get into the
Speaker 5: race not as a driver, but as a as a
Speaker 5: you know, as a as a participant and bring your
Speaker 5: own sponsors. And I just think it's an incredibly undervalued
Speaker 5: assets coming to CODA for Labor Day weekend that encourage people.
Speaker 6: To check it out.
Speaker 2: Twenty four hours of CODA.
Speaker 5: CODA is going to be six if I'm not mistaken,
Speaker 5: like I see. So there's different races, different durations.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so I.
Speaker 3: Watch only Moto GP and sometimes Formula One, but I
Speaker 3: don't have time to I don't have time to devote
Speaker 3: any more than that because I'm already watching you know,
Speaker 3: practice qualifying sprint race.
Speaker 6: But it's only eight races a year.
Speaker 2: I only know Lama and Daytona.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so Daytona's part of IMSA and Seabring's part of
Speaker 5: IMSA and then but you know there's a race at SPA.
Speaker 3: Wait, so those are different than we Different is very confusing,
Speaker 3: I know, be underappreciated.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's why.
Speaker 5: I think WEK is like International imps US and WEC
Speaker 5: has the you know, it's one of the three race
Speaker 5: races in the world is Indy, Lama and Monaco, and
Speaker 5: you know they call that the Triple Crown on.
Speaker 3: Right, and race Monico is more exciting in WECK form
Speaker 3: than it is in F one form.
Speaker 5: We don't race Monaco, but I promise you the races
Speaker 5: are more exciting than than Monico.
Speaker 6: Has been the last few years.
Speaker 5: But you know, to see a race at SPA and
Speaker 5: you know the cars are, you know, bombing around for
Speaker 5: six hours NonStop, so roughly four hours as long as
Speaker 5: a as an F one race, that that's pretty incredible event.
Speaker 5: And it is it is very special. You know, IMLA
Speaker 5: is always a special event. Fuji by Rain and Qatar
Speaker 5: and saw Paolo this year as well. So lots of
Speaker 5: really cool destined obviously, you know, Circuit of the Americas
Speaker 5: in Austin and so you've got all of You've got
Speaker 5: all those great circuits and there will be more to come.
Speaker 5: But I think, as I said earlier, what really makes
Speaker 5: it fun to watch is the involvement of these great manufacturers.
Speaker 5: It's true sports car racing. In many cases, you can
Speaker 5: or will soon be able to buy a variant of
Speaker 5: the WEC car for the road. It won't be a hybrid,
Speaker 5: but you know, I know at least two manufacturers that
Speaker 5: are going to offer the vehicles for sale.
Speaker 3: On a second they I don't understand exactly, but don't
Speaker 3: they have like a more stock car entrant and then
Speaker 3: Total Prototype and then.
Speaker 5: Yep, so there's more stock cars like the GT three class,
Speaker 5: right so that's almost exactly what you can drive in
Speaker 5: the road.
Speaker 2: So if you can buy the Mustang, if you get
Speaker 2: the g T gives.
Speaker 5: You Farley gives you the nod. God, God, I love
Speaker 5: Jim Farley'd love to get that car. The you know,
Speaker 5: in the case of of Porsche, it's the g T
Speaker 5: three R S, which is a tough get, but it's
Speaker 5: a very special car. I mean it's a road car
Speaker 5: with effectively DRS.
Speaker 6: That's pretty cool.
Speaker 5: And then you've got the l M H and l
Speaker 5: M d H classes, which are the hypercar class.
Speaker 2: That's what you guys are in.
Speaker 6: That's what we're in.
Speaker 4: So how do you create value out.
Speaker 1: Of this admittedly obscure racing series for Americans?
Speaker 6: Is the key.
Speaker 5: It's it's got a good follow I mean, you know,
Speaker 5: you got if you were to go to Lama, you
Speaker 5: would come away with a very different appreciation of.
Speaker 2: Everybody says that.
Speaker 1: People yes, but that, but I mean no, I haven't everybody.
Speaker 4: I don't want to go. No, it's not spectator friendly.
Speaker 4: It rains every year.
Speaker 5: It's holy your camp, let's be honest. Okay, Hannah is
Speaker 5: not going to end up at Laman a tent. Okay,
Speaker 5: like that's probably not the way you're going to experience it.
Speaker 5: And the people who do that love it.
Speaker 6: But I but what that is not for me.
Speaker 5: What you What we do is we get like, you know,
Speaker 5: really nice RVs. If you want to stand at State.
Speaker 3: I could see Hannah there in like an airstream like nice.
Speaker 1: It's we work that out then I will be happy
Speaker 1: to intend. But the fact remains, though this is so
Speaker 1: European and really Formula one has grown in the US.
Speaker 5: But it's taking because well two things. I think we'll
Speaker 5: come back to that in a second. The way you
Speaker 5: do it is through promotion. And so you know, why
Speaker 5: do we have Brady brand on the side of our
Speaker 5: car because you know we pick up you know, tens
Speaker 5: of millions of impressions every race because you know Tom's
Speaker 5: involved in it. You know it's Hurts involved in it. Well,
Speaker 5: because it's great content. I mean it is really cool content.
Speaker 5: You know, people walk through an airport and they see
Speaker 5: one of our cars sitting there, like that's kind of
Speaker 5: a cool thing to run into. They always attract a
Speaker 5: giant crowd. You're creating great content, great interest that we
Speaker 5: run promotions for the customers to gain access and go
Speaker 5: to Lama. We had a bunch of them there this year.
Speaker 5: That's a really neat thing. All of a sudden, You've
Speaker 5: got a trip across the Atlantic to watch a race,
Speaker 5: and I promise you everybody who goes to Lama comes
Speaker 5: away with an incredible impression. Ask Lebron James what he
Speaker 5: thought after he went last year. I won't spoil it,
Speaker 5: but I promise you will get again.
Speaker 4: How long did he stay at the track?
Speaker 6: He was there for the entirety of the first day, so.
Speaker 5: Okayact and it was you know, Tom's been there for
Speaker 5: the full weekend.
Speaker 6: It's a it's a grip.
Speaker 2: Were there. Were you there a couple weeks ago?
Speaker 5: I was, Yeah, we stayed for the whole time. You know,
Speaker 5: being out at the end of the Mozon straight, you
Speaker 5: know when the cars are under heavy breaking at that turn,
Speaker 5: that right hand or at the end of one of
Speaker 5: his canes and the brakes are glowing bright red and
Speaker 5: yes it's drizzling out and you know you get a
Speaker 5: cocktail on your hand at two in the morning. It's
Speaker 5: not the worst thing in the world, no way of Stella.
Speaker 1: By the way, this reminds me, Tom, do you run
Speaker 1: your own Instagram. No, well, I saw it on your Instagra.
Speaker 5: I have a public Instagram that we created for the team,
Speaker 5: because there's a funny story about that. I have a
Speaker 5: private Instagram. I've got like a whopping you know, one
Speaker 5: hundred followers or something, and and I started getting all
Speaker 5: these follower requests. Somebody figured out I think I had
Speaker 5: been tagged in something, and so I got all these
Speaker 5: follow requests and I get this notification from Instagram that
Speaker 5: said your accounts under review. And so I'm like, oh,
Speaker 5: the gift to give all this information, Give all the information.
Speaker 5: And fifteen minutes later, like your account is permanently deleted,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, what happened? They said you violated customer
Speaker 5: or community standards and I was like, what does that mean?
Speaker 5: They said, well, you're impersonating a public figure.
Speaker 2: What impersonating yourself?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess, And because in one city in England,
Speaker 5: I'm a public figure, so and so I had to
Speaker 5: delete all the requests and then we created the other account.
Speaker 3: But yeah, anyway, the city is Birmingham, by the ways,
Speaker 3: who because you own a soccer team there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, our firm made an investment in a Nighthead
Speaker 5: and I'm the chairman of the club. And that's a
Speaker 5: fun thing. By the way, it's back the same analog
Speaker 5: digital thing. It's kind of the ultimate form of analog entertainment.
Speaker 5: It's why we, you know, got into sport, and cars
Speaker 5: and racing are the same thing. But I listen, I
Speaker 5: think that there's a lot of there's a lot of
Speaker 5: things that draw people into this and make it interesting.
Speaker 6: And you asked about F one.
Speaker 5: Yes, Drive to Survive had an unbelievable impact on it.
Speaker 5: But I was in a meeting, gosh, it was two
Speaker 5: years ago now with an F one team principle. We
Speaker 5: were talking about this exact topic and the rise of
Speaker 5: F one, and it was following the Goodwood Festival of Speed,
Speaker 5: where my son and I go every year, and I
Speaker 5: told him he could attend the meeting because he wanted
Speaker 5: to see this. You know, we get to go see
Speaker 5: the whole facility. And he's sitting in the back there
Speaker 5: and I said, don't say a word, and so we're
Speaker 5: going through the meeting and then I said, well, I
Speaker 5: think there's one other thing that led to rise in
Speaker 5: popularity of F one. And I said, if it's okay,
Speaker 5: I want to ask my son for his input. So
Speaker 5: I turned to him and he looks at me and
Speaker 5: he goes, is it okay for me to speak now?
Speaker 5: I'm like, yes, it's gave you to speak now. And
Speaker 5: I said, Jack, you know, how many do you watch
Speaker 5: F one? He said every weekend watches qualifying watches the race.
Speaker 5: I said, how many episodes of Drive to Survive you've seen?
Speaker 5: He said zero? And I said, well, what got you
Speaker 5: into it? And he sort of sheepishly said, you know
Speaker 5: the game, the video game. And something occurred to me
Speaker 5: and I'd heard him talk about this before. You know,
Speaker 5: if you're a hockey fan, you can play street hockey
Speaker 5: or football.
Speaker 6: Plan you can.
Speaker 5: Sidelot football or baseball. You can play whiffle ball or
Speaker 5: you know, soccer. You just have anything round right racing.
Speaker 5: It's very hard to make the connection as a fan
Speaker 5: and the way that young people have become fans by
Speaker 5: playing the sport. These games are so realistic that they can.
Speaker 5: And I will tell you having had my son, and
Speaker 5: you know, with me in a car and a track
Speaker 5: in the right seat, he knows the track better than
Speaker 5: I do, and I'm the one driving. He knows my
Speaker 5: break points better. He knows when I should be on
Speaker 5: the gas better than I can, because he's driven the
Speaker 5: circuit let's say, one hundred times to my five, and
Speaker 5: on a sim and even though his sim is relatively basic,
Speaker 5: his his intuition for the track, even though he's not
Speaker 5: been in the seat, is pretty incredible. That connection to
Speaker 5: the sport is incredible. And I think what other race
Speaker 5: series have lost out on is the inability to develop
Speaker 5: a product that is that realistic. And they should because
Speaker 5: gaming is not going anywhere, and it's a great way
Speaker 5: to draw fans in. And as much as you say
Speaker 5: you don't have time for another race series, we all do.
Speaker 5: We all have more time to consume.
Speaker 6: You know, these types of media.
Speaker 5: And by the way, you know, with the rise of AI,
Speaker 5: it's going to continue to create more and more time
Speaker 5: quote unquote for people, which is why we'll look for
Speaker 5: more experiential things to do. So, you know, I think,
Speaker 5: you know, we're at the beginning stages of a continued,
Speaker 5: long rise in the interest in sport broadly defined, or
Speaker 5: at least I hope that's the case given some of
Speaker 5: our investments.
Speaker 6: But you know, I think all.
Speaker 5: This stuff is fantastic to see young people engaged in
Speaker 5: vehicles that are not the most modern, not the fast accelerating,
Speaker 5: not the technological marvels that we get out of you know,
Speaker 5: today's key EV makers. But you know, but have something
Speaker 5: that's really pretty incredible.
Speaker 6: Is is great.
Speaker 1: I think I'm very curious you mentioned very briefly hybrids.
Speaker 1: Obviously these cars racing are hybrid vehicles. And we've talked
Speaker 1: a lot about how you're going into ices. As things
Speaker 1: tend to move toward electric vehicles for commuting, where do
Speaker 1: hybrids fall into that spectrum. I used to think they're
Speaker 1: a bit of a band aid, a bridge towards evs.
Speaker 4: Now it seems like maybe they're here to stay.
Speaker 3: By we both spent the weekend driving hybrids or last
Speaker 3: weekend I was in uh driving the new hybrid, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I was this weekend driving the Corvette Era, which.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that Corvette's amazing. That Porsche is incredible. There's lots
Speaker 5: of other great hybrids. It's a difficult technolo you to master,
Speaker 5: but the best manufacturers clearly are getting it right. I
Speaker 5: think hybrids are here to stay because I think the
Speaker 5: transition to evs is just to get all of the
Speaker 5: rolling stock converted over. It's going to take a long time.
Speaker 5: Is that where it's going. I do believe that that's
Speaker 5: where we will end up. It's going to be complicated
Speaker 5: by the fact that it's going to be hard to
Speaker 5: get enough electricity available, you know, with the competing excess
Speaker 5: demand coming not just from consumers and the growth there
Speaker 5: and households, but also electric vehicles and other forms of
Speaker 5: mobility AI and compute power. So you know, there's a
Speaker 5: lot of reasons why the transition may be slower, and
Speaker 5: to the extent that it is in fact slower, hybrids
Speaker 5: play a crucial role there. They also offer a driving
Speaker 5: experience that is not as abrupt as going into an
Speaker 5: ev directly, so you know, for the average consumer, it's
Speaker 5: an easier way for them to get into it. And look,
Speaker 5: I mean from a performance perspective, you get a lot,
Speaker 5: you get the you know, you still get many of
Speaker 5: the attributes of an IC that we all love, right
Speaker 5: the sound, the vibration, and you get the excess performance.
Speaker 5: My personal view on all of that is, I think
Speaker 5: we've kind of we've more or less reached the limits
Speaker 5: of performance. Yes, cars will get faster both in acceleration
Speaker 5: and top speed.
Speaker 6: They will, but who.
Speaker 3: Cares it doesn't really mean speed has become commoditized, right,
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter if you can go zero to sixty
Speaker 3: and two and a half seconds, because everyone can.
Speaker 5: And my tussle was, you know, one to nine, which
Speaker 5: means that you when you're in an intersection, you can
Speaker 5: go sixty before you hit the other crosswalk, right, Like,
Speaker 5: you don't really need to go any faster than that.
Speaker 3: But it's not as much fun as going zero to
Speaker 3: sixty and six seconds in something from the seventies and
Speaker 3: the Bird.
Speaker 5: If you're well the t Bird, that's yeah, that's exciting
Speaker 5: eleven seconds. But if you're rowing through the gears and
Speaker 5: you want to get every shift right, and more importantly,
Speaker 5: if you're under heavy breaking and you're getting your down
Speaker 5: shifts right, like, that's a special feeling, and not everyone
Speaker 5: cares about that. I suspect that people listening to this
Speaker 5: probably you know, nodding their heads in a sent that's.
Speaker 6: Why we drive these old cars.
Speaker 5: And there's a whole plethora of old cars that I would,
Speaker 5: you know, love to own and drive regularly. I don't
Speaker 5: have the time to do it, but I just think
Speaker 5: it'd be fantastic, And I don't think that's going away,
Speaker 5: you know, So I think there's a spot for all
Speaker 5: of this. And listen, it's not the worst thing in
Speaker 5: the world for these old cars to be repurposed into
Speaker 5: you know, and and restored into vehicles that are maintained.
Speaker 5: And I say that because, like, you know, why do
Speaker 5: we want to throw everything away? There's no reason for that.
Speaker 5: You know, they could be something to bring great joy
Speaker 5: and can be reimagined, re restored, what have you.
Speaker 3: I recently talked to at Greenwich concoor. I went to
Speaker 3: a really cool showing and a bunch of the guys
Speaker 3: there had c two corvettes and they all said, it's
Speaker 3: like driving a truck. Like it's not a great driving experience.
Speaker 3: So if someone could reimagine that.
Speaker 6: Vehicle that that would be pretty amazing.
Speaker 5: The one thing I'd say on the new evs is
Speaker 5: they are actually a step stone to fully autonomous mobility.
Speaker 5: Like that's really what they represent. And I know there's
Speaker 5: you know, for a last year and a half, there's
Speaker 5: been lots of naysayers and the tides turned a little
Speaker 5: bit on that. There's been some positive articles recently, but like,
Speaker 5: if you really doubt how close we are get in
Speaker 5: a Tesla with the most updated beta version of the
Speaker 5: self driving software, and tell me we're not close. It's
Speaker 5: years away, not decades away, if not closer than that.
Speaker 5: And the reason that ev is play an important role
Speaker 5: is you really can't have an IC or a hybrid
Speaker 5: that autonomously moves people. And when we get to full autonomy,
Speaker 5: that is ecologically by far, the holy Gril, that's the
Speaker 5: best place.
Speaker 3: It's in terms of safety, I mean safety to me,
Speaker 3: that's the biggest thing because how many people die in
Speaker 3: car accidents. You know, we talk about all the other
Speaker 3: things that kill you, and car accidents are way up there,
Speaker 3: especially top of the.
Speaker 6: List, especially for young people.
Speaker 5: And so you know, when we move that way, there's
Speaker 5: lots of we spent some time and the lots of
Speaker 5: economic advantages to get unlocked if we can. If we
Speaker 5: can figure that out, AI will certainly hasten you know,
Speaker 5: the arrival those things. But again that what does that do?
Speaker 5: It frees up time to do other things, if your
Speaker 5: commute time. Remember most people don't live in big urban
Speaker 5: areas like we do. And and it probably drives yourself
Speaker 5: to work because she's La, Yes, I did you know?
Speaker 5: So we we don't and you know, but elsewhere in
Speaker 5: the world people drive themselves to work, So it's lost time.
Speaker 5: I think it's forty two minutes or fifty minutes a
Speaker 5: day for the average American worker. You know, if you
Speaker 5: are working in that time and you're productive, you know,
Speaker 5: then you you can free up time elsewhere. Maybe every
Speaker 5: Friday is off, or maybe Fridays every Friday is a
Speaker 5: half day.
Speaker 6: Well, what are you going to do with that time?
Speaker 5: Well, maybe you're restoring an old vehicle yourself, or maybe
Speaker 5: you're driving an older So I could.
Speaker 3: Sleep for fun, because I do drive an hour and
Speaker 3: a half, yeah, back and forth in Westchester, and on
Speaker 3: a lot of days, I'm so wiped out.
Speaker 2: I have a couple of little kids.
Speaker 3: I just want to sleep, and I still have to
Speaker 3: stay awake and brave the traffic up the major DTA,
Speaker 3: And it's that's that's what I would do.
Speaker 1: What is the biggest obstacle right now? You say we're close, Tom.
Speaker 1: Is it a technology thing, is it a money thing?
Speaker 4: Is it a legal regulator?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I think that it really depends on the regulatory environment
Speaker 5: we have. I'd be foolish to say anything other than that.
Speaker 5: There's no question that the technology is safer than humans today.
Speaker 5: It's already achieved that, like it's not it's not really debatable.
Speaker 5: The cases where there's an accident make all the headlines,
Speaker 5: but we don't. You know, we don't make front page
Speaker 5: news every time somebody does in a car the United States,
Speaker 5: and it happens unfortunately, many many, many, many times per day.
Speaker 5: And so you know, the cruises of the world, the
Speaker 5: way moos of the world, the teslas of the world
Speaker 5: have already done better than a human. They will continue
Speaker 5: to do better than humans, and so we will have
Speaker 5: safer vehicles. The big thing that's standing the way right
Speaker 5: now is you know that getting the technology to the
Speaker 5: point where it's really useful in that you know, those
Speaker 5: those key edge cases and then you know, how do
Speaker 5: you roll out that that rolling stuff to make it
Speaker 5: available to move people around? So it's coming. You know,
Speaker 5: it's a good thing. I don't think it's I don't
Speaker 5: think we all need to be afraid of it.
Speaker 3: The charging infrastructure is my big problem. I mean, last
Speaker 3: week I had a great time in this GMC hummer
Speaker 3: last week and it has like four hundred miles of range,
Speaker 3: but I got it down to zero and when I
Speaker 3: was looking for charging stations, they were all like broken
Speaker 3: or like no longer on anyway. I think the infrastructure
Speaker 3: is what really needs to happen.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's got to get better.
Speaker 2: Set.
Speaker 5: There's also you were you know, I think again we
Speaker 5: come back to what will they actually be used for.
Speaker 5: It's the moving people from point A to point B
Speaker 5: on regular routes, so that's your commuting work. You're never
Speaker 5: going to run out of charge if you have a
Speaker 5: you know, think if you have a gas station in
Speaker 5: your home, which is really what you have when you
Speaker 5: own an EV and you install the charging hardware, so
Speaker 5: you know, we'll get past that. The biggest hurdle, if
Speaker 5: you will, to chart new charging technology is the is
Speaker 5: the electricity infrastructure. It's not that companies aren't willing to
Speaker 5: install it, they can't pull the power that they need.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about a little bit about cars that you like,
Speaker 3: because I thought the Masters in Business that you did
Speaker 3: was really inspirational because you tell your origin story and
Speaker 3: you're not someone who was born on third base, right,
Speaker 3: you had to work to get there, and you mentioned
Speaker 3: the Corolla and you couldn't afford to get anything else.
Speaker 3: But eventually you go to you know, credit Sueez, you
Speaker 3: go to Goldman Sachs. You start your own shop and
Speaker 3: now you have the financial wherewithal to pick up a
Speaker 3: few of those things. And you know, it's like collecting art,
Speaker 3: it's not so what have you got.
Speaker 2: That you like?
Speaker 3: And also do you do you buy them as an
Speaker 3: investment or do you buy them because you just really
Speaker 3: they speak to your heart.
Speaker 5: Now, I buy what I want to drive and own
Speaker 5: for a long period of time, but I don't. I
Speaker 5: haven't gone bananas and building out a collection, and I've
Speaker 5: still my Holy Grail cars other than singers still on
Speaker 5: my list because it's good motivation for me. It's just
Speaker 5: the way that I maybe my brain works and what
Speaker 5: causes me to be motivated. So you know what I
Speaker 5: like to own an early seventies you know, Daytona Spider.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's like way up the list.
Speaker 5: The car for me that was my Everyone kind of
Speaker 5: had their car as a teenager, and I had one
Speaker 5: car that was like, I thought was the greatest thing
Speaker 5: ever ever ever. I just thought it was the most
Speaker 5: amazing vehicle and it passed me walking home from soccer
Speaker 5: practice one day in my hometown of Franklin, Massachusetts on
Speaker 5: Lincoln Street, and it was a Kuontash and I couldn't
Speaker 5: believe I saw it. And so there were two things
Speaker 5: that I that I had always seen. One was the
Speaker 5: sixty minute special on the Cuntash, which if you haven't watched,
Speaker 5: you should watch. It was an incredible segment. I watched
Speaker 5: it so much that the VHF tape like just wore out.
Speaker 5: And the other was obviously the opening sequence and Cannonball
Speaker 5: run right, which is just you know, like you see that,
Speaker 5: You're like, how is that not the greatest thing ever.
Speaker 5: I remember talking to my son about favorite cars and
Speaker 5: he's got his favorites and I said, no, but the
Speaker 5: Coontash is so special.
Speaker 6: And he's like, oh, Lamborghini.
Speaker 1: Dad.
Speaker 5: Really'm like yeah, And so I said, all right, Well,
Speaker 5: we went to a car show and it was an
Speaker 5: outdoor show and we were coming up. I said, okay,
Speaker 5: there's five coon Tashes over there, and he's like where,
Speaker 5: and I said over here, come.
Speaker 6: On, let's walk over.
Speaker 5: And we're walking over and he doesn't say anything for
Speaker 5: like ten seconds of walking.
Speaker 6: He just looks at me.
Speaker 5: He goes, Okay, I get it, and I'm like yeah,
Speaker 5: like it's like a spaceship sitting there right here. It is,
Speaker 5: you know, you know, fifty plus years later and it
Speaker 5: still looks so unbelievable. So that's one that would be
Speaker 5: incredible to own, like a you know, early eighties.
Speaker 2: Oh you haven't got one.
Speaker 6: No, no, no, dude, there was a time.
Speaker 2: When those were going for like thirty grand.
Speaker 6: No no.
Speaker 5: I remember, like right after the financial crisis, really good examples.
Speaker 5: We're just over one hundred grand, and I remember looking
Speaker 5: at someone, I'm like, I really should buy this, Like
Speaker 5: I've always want to own this car, and I don't
Speaker 5: think it's ever going to be this price again. It
Speaker 5: was a really by the way, bought a zillion things
Speaker 5: to them and made more money than buying the car.
Speaker 3: But you were right, isn't that when you started your business,
Speaker 3: was when I started my b So you were buying things.
Speaker 6: I was buying things. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I don't know if we didn't buy a lot of
Speaker 5: things that had tenfold returns in this period of time.
Speaker 5: But there's a lot of other cars out there. I mean,
Speaker 5: I've got you know, there's some great examples.
Speaker 6: That I have today.
Speaker 5: I have a seven eighteen Spider RS that I just
Speaker 5: got it was one of the first that came into
Speaker 5: the US.
Speaker 6: Like, that's a really special car. Yes, it's a really Porsche.
Speaker 5: I think just hit the ball out of the park
Speaker 5: on that one, because it's it's a great driver's car.
Speaker 5: It's not the fastest car in the road, but man,
Speaker 5: it's got to be one of the most fun. And
Speaker 5: that size, it's a great size vehicle. It's not quite
Speaker 5: as big as the new nine to elevens are. I
Speaker 5: really love it.
Speaker 3: So Ferrari doesn't make a car anymore with a stick.
Speaker 3: The Corvette doesn't come with a stick anymore, at least
Speaker 3: as far as we know. The new nine to elevens
Speaker 3: that Hannah drove right, none of those kinds.
Speaker 1: But I think it's I think a manu All gearbox
Speaker 1: is coming on a higher variant.
Speaker 3: But why do you think these extra special.
Speaker 4: Vehicle not on the hybrid but on the nine nine
Speaker 4: two two.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I have.
Speaker 3: One of the things about the Corvette that I was
Speaker 3: driving is it's so fast that I can barely keep
Speaker 3: the car out of triple digits. I'm not sure if
Speaker 3: that'd be a good excuse when I get pulled over,
Speaker 3: but I just can't.
Speaker 2: If I had a stick, it.
Speaker 3: Would make it much easier to drive slower. You know,
Speaker 3: why do you think these super luxury brands don't put out.
Speaker 6: I don't think there's the demand for it. I think
Speaker 6: that's why.
Speaker 5: I mean, like there's just aren't as many people that
Speaker 5: want that, And I think that's why we see the
Speaker 5: older cars, you know, generate such interest. I mean, you
Speaker 5: know you've ever driven like an early seventies Alpha Romeo,
Speaker 5: Like those are.
Speaker 6: Not fast cars.
Speaker 5: Those are awesome to drive, like this sound, you know
Speaker 5: the feel of the car. Those are great, great, great
Speaker 5: cars to drive. You know, there are lots and lots
Speaker 5: of examples of great cars with manual transmissions to drive,
Speaker 5: and no other one's really inexpensive, you know, late eight Ease
Speaker 5: Mazda are seven.
Speaker 3: I'm fascinated by the engine because it's rotary.
Speaker 5: Account that's a great No, I don't, but it's it's
Speaker 5: on the list of things that like would be great.
Speaker 5: This is the downside of being a New York City residence.
Speaker 5: Like for like I got like, you know, one spot
Speaker 5: in the garage for like, you know, something nice, And
Speaker 5: it's stupid how much money you have to pay to
Speaker 5: like have a protected place in your garage. Someday I
Speaker 5: won't live in New York and I'll have more cars.
Speaker 5: But you know, I think the you know, then when
Speaker 5: the ones you do buy for collection, they got you
Speaker 5: because you're in New York and it's too expensive. But
Speaker 5: I think, you know, it's sort of an endless list
Speaker 5: of what would be amazing to own. There just are
Speaker 5: so many cars. And I actually think that the list
Speaker 5: of vehicles that that could be reimagined where you have
Speaker 5: all the styling and aesthetics of something old, but with
Speaker 5: the conveniences of.
Speaker 6: Of a of a more modern car.
Speaker 5: What I mean by conveniences are like, you don't have
Speaker 5: to worry about it breaking down right, it'll run right.
Speaker 2: As traction control.
Speaker 6: Yeah, as long as you can turn it off. I
Speaker 6: think those are great.
Speaker 3: But do you think that's a long list. I mean
Speaker 3: I could think of a few. Obviously, the C two
Speaker 3: Corvette is one that I think of, you know, the
Speaker 3: Mustang you're already doing.
Speaker 2: I don't think there are really that many.
Speaker 5: Oh I could go through it. I mean I think
Speaker 5: you could do. I'd love to see a Lamborghini that
Speaker 5: was more that was more reliable, user friendly.
Speaker 6: I can't imagine little.
Speaker 3: I've never been into kuntash, but I bet you it's
Speaker 3: hard to get in and out and dry.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and the wheel well's not ideal, but it's like,
Speaker 5: that's a great one that could be really really special
Speaker 5: because imagine if it were carbon monocoque with carbon body, right,
Speaker 5: it just be and and take that motor and modern technology.
Speaker 5: You talk about something with eight hundred horsepower that weighs
Speaker 5: hundreds of pounds less. That's going to be a just
Speaker 5: absolutely ridiculous car. And you know, you do bigger rims
Speaker 5: and smaller aspect ratio tires and think there's a lot
Speaker 5: that could be done there.
Speaker 6: And I think the list is a mile long.
Speaker 3: Hannah, what would you do if you could start, Hannah
Speaker 3: Elliott reimagining cars?
Speaker 1: What would you I honestly wouldn't you'd keep in mind,
Speaker 1: I'm really.
Speaker 4: I'm really, I'm honestly.
Speaker 1: I mean it's fine, you know, I'm not certainly not
Speaker 1: casting judgment, but I honestly wouldn't. I it doesn't appeal
Speaker 1: to me on a personal level. It's just not my thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, And I totally get that too,
Speaker 5: Like I have a Yeah, I there's there's like old
Speaker 5: slate sixties Shelby Mustangs. You know I've got I've got
Speaker 5: one that's that's been modernized, and ones that haven't are
Speaker 5: I think just as every bit as fun.
Speaker 6: You know. Imagine like an old you know one.
Speaker 5: I'll give you an example of a car that i'd
Speaker 5: like done that I would definitely not want to have,
Speaker 5: like a four to twenty seven cover.
Speaker 6: I just want the original.
Speaker 1: Yeah to me too, you know things we all see
Speaker 1: cars on golf courses that have been over restored that
Speaker 1: are just past the point they're actually better now than
Speaker 1: they ever were when they came out of the factory.
Speaker 1: And to me, that's that I'm not interested in in
Speaker 1: a hypothetical perfection that did not exist at the time,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: So I just want so I mean, I'm with you
Speaker 3: kind of on this because I I feel like there
Speaker 3: are a lot of old cars that are very unsafe
Speaker 3: to drive. There's a lot of old cars that are
Speaker 3: very slow, like even.
Speaker 7: Say than they are now, And like I would love
Speaker 7: to get like an old Jag, you know, but I
Speaker 7: know it's going to break down every week, and I
Speaker 7: know it's gonna be super slow and heavy, But I
Speaker 7: want one that's I love the design.
Speaker 2: I love the interior.
Speaker 3: For example, I want so desperately that Bentley that Matt
Speaker 3: Farra got right.
Speaker 2: I've wanted for so long. I've wanted a Bentley.
Speaker 3: But every time I watch a YouTube video about someone
Speaker 3: who buys one for thirty thousand dollars, they talk about
Speaker 3: how they've put one hundred grand into it already and
Speaker 3: they still can't keep it running. I wish they could
Speaker 3: do something like, you know, this is.
Speaker 5: The great thing, like the case can be made for
Speaker 5: both and and you know, Hannah will say she loves that.
Speaker 5: You know, when you get behind the wheel of an
Speaker 5: old card doesn't track perfectly.
Speaker 6: Straight, have to pay total attention.
Speaker 5: And that's all right, right, that's really cool. And I
Speaker 5: get it equally. I think when you take a car
Speaker 5: that's restored and it's done really well, and you can't
Speaker 5: quite like, you know, when I drive my Singer, people
Speaker 5: don't really know what it is, particularly the DLS.
Speaker 6: They just think it's an old Porsche with a cool
Speaker 6: paint job.
Speaker 5: They don't really you know, like why it's a visible
Speaker 5: carbon car that's kind of cool. They don't really get
Speaker 5: that it is completely different as an F one developed.
Speaker 3: That's something that's that is completely different, right, that's.
Speaker 6: Not, but it doesn't look like it.
Speaker 5: And I'll say you driving it doesn't feel like a
Speaker 5: brand new modern car. It bears no resemblance to you know,
Speaker 5: like a like my you know, sevent eighteen Spider. Like
Speaker 5: they're very very very different driving experiences, both awesome in
Speaker 5: their own way, but very different. And I think that's
Speaker 5: what I find alluring is that you can, you know,
Speaker 5: done right, you can create something that's really pretty special.
Speaker 3: That was super nice of him to come and spend
Speaker 3: some time with us. He's got so much on the go,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's unbelievable, and he's so grounded and calm.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm surprised.
Speaker 3: Really interesting kind of crossover between cars as a hobby
Speaker 3: and cars as an investment. And obviously the businesses are
Speaker 3: you know, he wants to make money on them, but
Speaker 3: what cool business is to be in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's obvious. He's like he's a car guy.
Speaker 3: He did it right, All right, very cool. That's all
Speaker 3: we've got for today.
Speaker 2: What have you got?
Speaker 3: Have you got anything on in terms of are you
Speaker 3: driving something special? I really, by the way, desperately now
Speaker 3: want to drive that Z six because I had such
Speaker 3: a good time in the E ray that now and
Speaker 3: my wife was like, we need to get one of these.
Speaker 4: Meet in the middle, start driving toward each other.
Speaker 3: And what did you finally think of the Z six?
Speaker 1: It revs Hi right, Yes, it's it's a great car.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like everything we said last week. I
Speaker 1: definitely think it's a bit lurchy. It's not a smooth beast.
Speaker 1: And I say that having come out of a nine
Speaker 1: to eleven, so you know, that's that is what I
Speaker 1: drove immediately before it. The interior is really a thing,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, it's like it doesn't I'm
Speaker 1: not bothered by the interior configuration. It makes me feel something.
Speaker 1: I just don't know what. It makes me feel.
Speaker 3: It makes me feel like I'm a fighter pilot who's
Speaker 3: on an episode of Miami Vice. Yeah, it's you're in
Speaker 3: a cocoon. And anyhow, I love also that the car
Speaker 3: is relatively accessible. So, for instance, when we're talking about Ferraris,
Speaker 3: you spend time in all these you know, supercars.
Speaker 2: I'm never gonna get in any of those, but yes
Speaker 2: you will.
Speaker 3: But a lot of people can get into Quarvette Corvette.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, which is which is really sweet.
Speaker 3: All Right, I'm I'm gonna be driving an SL sixty
Speaker 3: three next week.
Speaker 4: That'll be fun, so excited. That'll be great for that.
Speaker 3: But and so I've driven a series of these kind
Speaker 3: of roadsters or convertibles. I had the Z four, now
Speaker 3: I was in the convertible C eight, and then I'll
Speaker 3: be in the SL sixty three, and it'll be an
Speaker 3: interesting comparison.
Speaker 4: That's great.
Speaker 1: I think I have a Volvo drive coming up, may
Speaker 1: have a Rivian coming up. I've got a couple things
Speaker 1: I kind of need to check. It's like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: have a week or two with nothing and then a
Speaker 1: staccato succession of new things.
Speaker 3: So all right, well then we have enough to talk
Speaker 3: about for next week.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm Matt Miller
Speaker 4: I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg