WEBVTT - Retrospective 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.480 The person in charge of that movie made a lot 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.280 of mistakes. American met Edward James almost yeah admitted do 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:14.520 you know him? Oh yeah, I saved his life really 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:19.160 and he won't admit that either. Welcome to more than 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:23.040 a movie American Me. I'm your host, Alex Fomento. Today's 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:25.960 our last episode of this season. We've been learning about 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.520 this movie in pieces, from the actors who were on set, 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.400 to the filmmakers behind the scenes, to the gang members 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.720 who gave us the inside scoop on the murders associated 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.720 with the movie. It's time to take everything we've learned 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:43.239 in our last six months of digging in our hours 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.960 and hours of interviews and wiki holls and YouTube videos 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.120 with two views to try to put together some sort 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:54.040 of complete picture. Who is the real Edward James almost, 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.080 why did he make American Meat, who actually got killed 0:00:58.160 --> 0:01:01.920 because of this movie? And most importantly, was it all 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.600 worth it. Let's start where we always start on this podcast, 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:09.319 the one big interview, the guy we wanted to talk 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.200 to but didn't want to talk to us. By now 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:15.200 you should know who I'm talking about, Mr Edward James. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.199 Almost none of this happens without him, not the good 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.960 stuff like a Latino director getting a major movie made 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.680 thirty years ago, and maybe none of the bad stuff. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.440 More on that later, but first, that voice you heard 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.760 at the top, that's Danny Trejo. He's probably the second 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:34.480 most important person in this story. He wouldn't talk to 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.039 us either. Maybe it's because we found out that a 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.200 lot of what he wrote in his twenty nineteen memoir 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.440 might have been embellished, misremembered, or just playing wrong. But 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:45.920 we probably wouldn't have done this podcast where it not 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.360 for Trejo and his attempts to sell his memoir off 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:52.720 the back of American me stories like the one about 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:55.440 when almost showed up to a Jewish Deli method acting 0:01:55.480 --> 0:01:58.920 in Prison Blues, or when a Mexican mafia leader supposedly 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:00.880 called him from prison and to warn him not to 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:03.960 act in the movie. From what we've heard, those stories 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.240 probably didn't happen, or if they did, they happened very 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:10.360 differently than how Trejo told them. But maybe he has 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.880 an explanation for the discrepancies, like how Joe Morgan managed 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:16.360 to call him from the Pelican based Special Housing unit 0:02:16.360 --> 0:02:19.240 where he was in solitary confinement for twenty two point 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.200 five hours a day with more or less zero access 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.079 to the outside world. If he calls us back, we'll 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.840 do another episode. Phone lines are open, Danny. But Trejo 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.280 had a lot to say about Edward James Almost while 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:33.960 he was promoting his book. He's still pretty mad about 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.679 the whole thing. Okay, the leader of Mexican Mafia would 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.320 never raped Hey, at least that's one thing we agree on. 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.880 But enough about Danny Trejo. After all, whether you believe 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.160 his story or not, he wasn't the guy who made 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.359 American Me, and what transpired after the release of that 0:02:48.400 --> 0:02:50.960 movie probably plays out the exact same way no matter 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:55.040 what Trejo's involvement may have been. Throughout this season, I've 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:57.639 been trying to get inside the head of one Edward 0:02:57.880 --> 0:03:03.000 James Almost, particularly the almost of the early nine nineties. Obviously, 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.760 understanding the director of American Me would help us understand 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:09.160 the movie itself, but could it also help us understand 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:12.760 the version of America that the movie was made in, and, 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:16.639 by extension, explain why Edward James Almost would make such 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:20.120 a dangerous piece of art in the first place. Remember, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:24.520 this isn't Admiral Adama, this is Edward James Almost circa one, 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.920 the rising Hollywood star, the recent Academy Award nominee, the 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.400 household name from five seasons on Miami Vice. But also 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.640 a family man with kids at home, an active community 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.520 leader with a vision, a spokesperson. If you will, one 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.960 clue into Edward James, almost as Psyche might lie in 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:44.520 a story that we heard about him early in our process. 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:46.760 It's the kind of story you think was made up 0:03:46.920 --> 0:03:49.400 or that's being taken out of context, if not for 0:03:49.440 --> 0:03:52.880 the fact that it's right on his website. It's about 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:56.520 the civil rights uprising in Los Angeles, sometimes better known 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.360 as the l A Riots, the culmination of a decade 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.400 of reaganam X and militarizing police forces reaching a fever pitch, 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.000 an event looking back that shows us Rodney King was 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:10.440 just the straw that broke the camel's back. Uh. In 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:14.640 our review or, we find that the officers struck him 0:04:14.680 --> 0:04:18.320 with batons of between fifty three and fifty six times. 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.280 I was scared. I was scared. I was scared for 0:04:21.360 --> 0:04:24.280 my life. The inaction of the seventeen officers may now 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.160 be investigated by the U. S. Attorney's Office for possible 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:33.839 civil rights violations. That's right. Seventeen officers were involved. Four 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:37.000 took turns beating up Rodney King while the others just 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.839 looked on. All were caught on tape, and the tape 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:45.479 was broadcast by every major news outlet. This was thirty 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.719 years ago, when not everybody owned a cam quorder. In fact, 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:50.359 this is so long ago, simme, y'all don't know what 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.040 the cam quorder is. And just a couple of months 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:57.520 after the event, those four officers were acquitted and the 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:03.799 city of Angels just erupted for five days. There were riots. 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:11.440 Even Sublime wrote a song about it. Where were you 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.920 at this point? American Me has been out only six 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:19.279 weeks and then all hell breaks loose on the same streets. 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.560 Edward James almost is trying to keep clean. He made 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.160 a movie to stop violence in Los Angeles, but how 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.760 does he deal with the most violent period the city 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:31.240 had ever seen. I'm gonna read you what he wrote 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.000 about just that, though my voice is nowhere as cool 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:37.120 as his, So just imagine Edward James almost talking to you. 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:39.800 I was out on the morning that the military were 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.160 scheduled to start to shoot to kill anyone left on 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.200 the streets. That's why I went out. I wanted to 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:48.320 see if they would shoot me with a broom in 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:52.120 my hand. Then people saw it and turned out by 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:55.359 the tens of thousands. The riot had not stopped, not 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:58.920 until the afternoon of the friday we went out. It's 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.680 funny how people think we went out after the fact. 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.760 We were the fact of why the riots stopped. One 0:06:05.920 --> 0:06:08.920 person with a broom in his hands. It just happened 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:11.400 to be me. And this is how his right hand man, 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:16.880 Danny Harrow, explained that day. It was amazing. It was amazing. Um, 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.919 you know, I remember coming we started, I think any 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:24.240 myself and maybe three other people. Five o'clock in the morning. 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:27.239 We got brooms. Okay, that's what we're getting. Just that's 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.920 all right. As as as it got light, people were coming. Amazing. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.200 People would come grab your cleaning stuff it with the 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.640 little cleaning army would would rise in numbers. And I 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:41.719 and I specifically remember we came to an intersection where 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.760 there were rioters going on and they were the National 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:48.679 Guarden and police, and they actually stopped for us because 0:06:48.680 --> 0:06:51.000 they were about to go at it. They stopped for 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:55.080 us and were going across the intersection. Okay, you know, 0:06:55.640 --> 0:07:00.560 so so people like I remember Denzel Washington later in 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.680 the day coming and spoke with Eddie, And you know, 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:05.919 I'm not saying they weren't doing their thing, but I 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:09.360 just remember that. I can't remember anybody that thought of 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:13.320 this and and and actually started implementing it in the 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.520 middle of it. But I know that he reached out 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:18.800 first to the African American community of leadership, and they 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.200 were afraid. I don't blame him, like I was afraid too, 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.640 but I thought, hey, we got you know what, at 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.200 least if we get killed, we're doing something that's honorable 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:29.880 and we're giving back. So Okay, he's in it, I'm 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.040 in it, let's go. I think it says so much 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:35.240 about this guy. He genuinely wanted to do something good. 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:39.200 He made what is ultimately a small but theatrical gesture, 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:43.200 and even today, seemingly he stands by the idea that 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:47.960 him and a broom stopped the violence. Doesn't it sound 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.280 a lot like the same kind of thinking that could 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:53.440 lead a man to believe that a movie criticizing a 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:57.080 very dangerous gang would somehow stopped children from wanting to 0:07:57.080 --> 0:08:00.160 be gangsters. I try to think of this bold claim 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:03.280 by almost in the context of the Edward James almost 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.520 that I met, Yes, I met the man years ago 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:10.480 at a dinner for a magazine called Latino Leaders. The 0:08:10.520 --> 0:08:13.280 prize for being a Latino Leader was a dinner with almost, 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.600 which frankly sounded pretty cool to me. The discussion at 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.120 dinner became a big pep talk about how to navigate 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:23.080 a Hollywood ecosystem that doesn't include you or even understand 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.520 you most of the time. But two things surprised me 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.040 that night. Almost asked us what the most watched movie 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.560 of all time? Was not the highest box office, but 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:37.319 watched the most times. We shouted out things like Titanic, 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:42.960 Star Wars, and Avatar. Wrong. He said Stand and Deliver 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.520 was the most watched movie of all time because it 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.880 is played to this day in every school in America. 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:52.559 A bold statement, but you try and prove him wrong. 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:56.199 And he asked us if he was better known for 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:00.680 his acting or his activism. I think we thought the 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:02.760 point he was trying to make was that he was 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:06.920 under appreciated for his activism. So every single person in 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:12.360 the room shouted out acting, no activism. He shouted back. 0:09:13.000 --> 0:09:15.160 What became clear to me was that this was a 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.600 guy who saw himself first and foremost as an activist, 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.760 and that the work he did on screen followed that 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.959 guiding light. And he believes he is someone who can 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:28.480 personally make huge changes in our society. I mean, he's 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:30.160 the type of guy who thinks he in a broom 0:09:30.200 --> 0:09:33.000 single handedly ended the l a riots. That makes it 0:09:33.040 --> 0:09:35.640 a little easier to understand why he'd go to such 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:41.280 lengths and take such great risks. In American meme, coming 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:43.440 up More Than a Movie, We're going to hear some 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:47.000 of Edward James almost his sixties rock band, and we'll 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.760 recap what we learned about the murders. Here are some 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:55.760 of those commercials that you love so much. Welcome back 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.560 to More Than a Movie, American MEA, Alex Fumeto, thank 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:00.760 you for listening with us for the last twelve weeks. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:04.920 That's longer than my producer's marriage lasted. Unlike him, at 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.960 least you know what commitment means. Let's talk about some 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.839 fun ship we found while we were reporting this story. 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:16.280 The man, the activist, the singer, Yes, Edward James almost 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.720 his first performances on stage where as a rock and 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:21.880 roll front man. Let's rewind a bit from ninety two 0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.839 Back to sixty two. Edward James Almost grew up in 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:26.760 East l A And taught himself to sing and play 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.600 the piano. By the early sixties, he was good enough 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.920 to join a band, the Pacific Ocean. The band's name 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:34.960 was Eddie's Idea because it was the biggest thing on 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.800 the West coast with waist long hair. Eddie was the 0:10:37.840 --> 0:10:41.400 band's lead vocalist. I was a terrible singer, says Almost, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:46.000 but boy could I scream and dance means bitting his 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:57.400 new dance. That was a song entitled Mickey's Monkey off 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:02.480 the album Purgatory, the band's only album. It includes such 0:11:02.520 --> 0:11:07.960 classic tunes as the bluesy tracks of My Tears, Look 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:21.160 at the Base, the seemingly James Brown inspired I Want 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:33.680 to Testify, and even a funkified version of Bob Dylan's 0:11:33.880 --> 0:11:44.800 subterranean Homesick Blues Did. Why does it matter one because 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:46.800 it's cool and it's a fun way to come back 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:50.200 from commercial to the guy wasn't the bassist or the keys. 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.920 He was the lead singer, the front man from day 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.680 one and three. Because almost is always looking to push 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.960 the envelope. As we've covered before, this is white dominated 0:12:00.200 --> 0:12:03.040 l A. So this makes almost who played at legendary 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.839 l A rock venues like Gazari's one of the first 0:12:05.920 --> 0:12:09.959 Chicano frontmen on the Sunset Strip. So fast forward back 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:13.280 and Almost has hung up his microphone and picked up 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.640 a camera. Figuratively speaking, he's directing the story of the 0:12:16.679 --> 0:12:19.800 gang leader who created the Mexican Mafia, and once again 0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.840 he's leading the way, becoming one of, if not the 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:27.400 first movie to shoot inside an active prison with real prisoners. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.560 I do remember on the yard, the big open yard um, 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.120 there were uh, you know, people in towers with rifles 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.559 and they were you know, they're they're on shoot to 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.520 kill orders. These are the directors of the documentary Lives 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.720 and Hazard, which shot alongside American me. If if if 0:12:48.760 --> 0:12:51.200 anybody had messed with us, you know, they would have 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.080 been in you know, lockdown for years. That's that was 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.520 That was kind of what the guards told us. So 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.439 everybody was, you know, trying to be pretty polite. I 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:04.120 would suffice it to say, when Eddie asked you to 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.520 do something, he's pretty convincing. So he's pulling out all 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.160 the stops making a movie that's going to change society 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:12.680 as we know it. Then the movie comes out and 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:16.960 people start getting killed. Here's one of the actors, Danny 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:21.400 de la Pace. We were in France, um along the 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.960 riviera at the con Film Festival with American me when 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:32.040 we heard the news of Anna's assassination basically, and uh, 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.000 I remember feeling a little bit scared. I was in 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.800 a foreign country, I was far from home, and I 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:40.440 was like, wow, what am I gonna be going back 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:43.280 home to, you know, I it was an eye opener 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.640 from me. I I I didn't know what to think. 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:48.679 On the streets of Los Angeles, word was out about 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.560 the movie and the Mexican mafia was very unhappy. Eric 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.880 Galindo remembers, I mean I had heard that, you know 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.040 when they made it, that had you got special permission 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:03.400 from the real game ings to tell the story. Um, 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:09.680 you know, definitely had heard that he was on green light. 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:15.000 Um you know, so green light what it basically means 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.000 is that you're you've been marked for death. There are 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.720 so many stories about that movie. This is this was happening. 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.880 There's these rumors, you know, like, but all I really 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:29.520 did for for like my my little group of friends, 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.600 was like it just added to the authenticity, Like it 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.720 was more like, that's how fucking real this is, that 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.760 there are real gangsters involved, that people are getting killed 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.880 over this, and that's kind of the tragedy of this movie. 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:46.000 Edward James almost wanted to make an anti gang movie instead. Well, 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:48.400 I mean it's definitely not a movie that my parents 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:50.960 would go watch, you mean, to be honest with you. Um, 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.960 but I remember watching it with like sold out crowd. 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.920 Remember there was like line out the door. It was 0:14:56.960 --> 0:15:01.000 sold out, and people loved it, you know. And and 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.400 the funny thing was, I remember walking out, you know, 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.400 people were like, oh, that's cool. Man Santana was a badass. No, 0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:12.280 young Jacob Vargas. That's not what Edward James almost wanted. 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.920 Even some folks in the gang life were fans from 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:19.760 the actor Sal Lopez. Well, uh, one of my brothers was, 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:22.440 you know, it was a little bit involved in the 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:26.400 life for a little bit of time. And uh, heat 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:31.720 to this stage is loves that movie. He loves the movie, 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.440 you know. Ship the former Lamb and member we spoke 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.560 to even said members of the Mexican Mafia like the movie. 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:41.560 Beef over the rape. Notwithstanding, I think they glorified and 0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.040 they wallowed in the attention, American Me actually put the 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:49.440 Mexican mafia on the national international stage. Coming up in 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:52.200 the very last segment of our deep dive on American Me, 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:55.520 what do we know now about the extortion and threats 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.880 made after the movie premiered? And did people really die 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:05.640 because of America? Can me? Welcome back to more than 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.640 a movie. I'm Alex Flumeto, and this is it. Thank 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:11.680 you for sticking with us all the way through it. 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.200 While we get to the bottom of what really happened 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:18.880 in the fallout to American Me, Let's listen to one 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.480 more anecdote from Almost and the l A Riots that 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.160 illustrates an important part of his worldview. And now we're 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:28.240 here to discuss some grimmer realities in the city of 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.960 Los Angeles. Have you been out today? What have you seen? Yeah, 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:36.760 you gotta understand that we've been uh understanding this problem 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.000 for a long time. We tried for many years and 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.560 we have been for many years trying to bring awareness 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.120 to it. Who exactly is the we he's talking about? 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:48.600 It's hard to say. Could be he was just with 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:51.360 a friend or his wife or a colleague, but I 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.120 don't think that's it. Could also be the royal weed. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.880 But he doesn't strike me as that kind of guy either. No, 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.280 for me, this is a kind of Freudian example of 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.200 how almost Fuse himself always is a part of a 0:17:02.280 --> 0:17:05.959 larger movement. It's not him ending the l a riots. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.120 Actually we are doing it. It's not him ending gang violence. 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:13.720 We are. It's as if he isn't deciding to do 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:16.480 any of the things he's doing. The movement is sort 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.760 of carrying him there like it's inevitable. And at the 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.760 same time he's clearly someone who wants to control the process. 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.280 No matter how much Edward James almost thinks he's acting 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:30.040 on behalf of a movement, he's really the one making 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:35.240 the decisions, and decisions have consequences. You could argue that 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.280 his insistence on using the word we and always acting 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.879 in the interests of the community is altruistic and selfless, 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.760 but it also centers him as the leader of the action. 0:17:46.800 --> 0:17:50.639 He's the lead singer, he's the man, and as such 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.520 he bears responsibility for the consequences of his actions or 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.840 the actions of the people he chooses to represent. So 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.960 what is Edward James almost ultimately responsible for when it 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.080 comes to American me. There's really just two elements of 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:08.000 the fallout that we have to look at. One did 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.280 he face any personal consequences for making the movie? And 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:14.480 two did the people who got killed after the movie 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.679 came out get killed because the movie came out. For 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.320 the personal consequences part, we're really just talking about the 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.760 supposed green light on almost and the potential ransom that 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:28.760 he paid. We've got two opposing stories to resolve, and 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:31.800 both of the people were intimately involved in the fallout 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.840 from the movie. The first is Danny Harrow, who was 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.600 almost his assistant at the time, and his take on 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:42.000 whether the extortion ever took place. What's your experience of 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.960 the threats and aftermath that came to him as a 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.880 result of give you Eddie's response to something like that, 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.119 do you think if if anybody gave money, if you 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.919 gave me a hundred fifty dollars and I'll leave you alone, 0:18:55.400 --> 0:18:58.439 So somebody gives on you think they're going to stop? 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.399 That's That's the simple answer. That if you say yes 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.200 to any of that, it won't end. They can always 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:10.160 go back, Well, we need another hundred fifty and we're 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.200 gonna do you see what I'm saying. So, so that's 0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:15.120 the answer right there. It's preposterous. I mean, I think 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:19.320 that's because I think that's a very viable, uh answer. However, 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:24.399 I think from what we've learned from our source within Liama, 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:27.919 they see themselves as a business, right, And so if 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.800 I was running a business and my business revolved around 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.120 me telling you better give me fifty dollars, you're gonna die, 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:35.800 and then I asked for thy thar, and then I 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:38.159 asked for another and another another, probably people are going 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.400 to stop paying me. But if you give me fifty 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:44.800 dollars and then I don't kill you, well then we've 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:48.040 completed a business transaction. Turned that around. Give me another fifty, 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:50.080 I'm going to kill you. I mean you always have 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.840 that as you're operating motive operandi. You know, I have 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.679 your your life in my hands. So how value is fifty? 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:02.000 Is fifty or is it more? I mean, think about 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.520 it for you know. I mean, that's unfortunately the way 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:10.760 these guys operate. So so without being specific to my answer, 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.040 that's the end that gives you the the the idea 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.720 of whether there's truth in that or not. Does that 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:22.399 make sense? It does? But then we have our source 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:26.840 from the last episode, the former Mexican Mafia member. Was 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:30.720 there ever a bounty on Edward James almost as far 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.800 as you know, No, No, there was not a bounty. 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:36.320 The Mexican Mafia never paid for a hit, and it 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:38.840 doesn't pay for hits. You do a hit, it's for 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:40.960 the honor and the glory and the privilege for killing 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:44.400 for the organization. So I mean, he was a target, 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.919 but not really a viable target. I mean, would they 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:49.879 have killed him if you walk into gang territory and 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.240 they were shooters there, sure they would have killed him. 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:54.679 But I think he was more valuable being the target 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.280 of extortion. So I mean you have to look at 0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:59.560 it through the prism of the mob, all right. They 0:20:59.560 --> 0:21:02.080 guys don't pay money, and he was a valuable asset 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.640 of the organization for the period that they used them. 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:10.520 Do you know what he paid them? Yeah? Wow, Okay, 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.679 that's that's actually less than what we heard. But I 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.600 guess fifty thirty years ago is a different story. So 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:20.359 it wasn't a bounty in the sense that they'll pay 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:23.480 for anyone who kills him. But what it would have 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.160 happened if almost hadn't paid Oh yeah. I mean, if 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:30.040 you wouldn't have paid, it would have got whacked. We'll 0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:33.520 let you decide which story you believe. And then there's 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:37.080 the people who were killed. We've narrowed down from Danny 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:41.960 Trejo's vague eight to ten really to three individuals. Their 0:21:42.040 --> 0:21:47.399 names were Annalys Sa, Charlie Mandriquez, and Manuel Luna. Between 0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:49.439 all the rumors around the movie and the fact that 0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.240 Edward James almost was maybe extorted by the Mexican mafia, 0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.680 some people around and believe that the movie actually caused 0:21:55.680 --> 0:21:58.800 the murders, to the point that they're still afraid today 0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.719 that they'll get killed for talking about it. But as 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:04.200 we know from our source from within the Mexican mafia 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:07.280 at the time and from the federal indictment, these people 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:11.280 were already on green light. So why why did the 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:16.000 street react to this movie more than people in prisons. Well, 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:17.639 you know, a lot of the stuff, a lot of 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.720 it was filmed in hazard So smile long Guiado. He 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.240 was headstrong and it was an opportunistic for him to 0:22:23.280 --> 0:22:26.560 eliminate people. They used to call Rocky Luna the godfather 0:22:26.600 --> 0:22:29.280 of the projects, right, So it was opportunistic for a 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:31.840 Guyardo to utilize, you know, what was happening in the 0:22:31.840 --> 0:22:34.439 political world of mafia to get them whacked. You know, 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:37.159 Charlie Brown Mariquez, we had conspired to kill him. You know, 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:40.080 I had volunteered to kill that guy years before. He 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:42.720 wasn't even were killing though, right and the Lozarego was 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:44.720 known as a rat through and through the hood, you know, 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:46.960 because she went through Youth gang Services and she spoke 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.440 to cops all the time, so she had smart on her. 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:52.840 Charlie Brown Mariquez has smut on him for being a bum. 0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:55.280 He was degrading the organization by living in cars and 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:59.439 being a crackhead, and Mauel Luna became a crackhead, so 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:01.919 you know, they were diminishing the statue of the organization. 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.040 So Smiland used this opportunity to gain a foothold and hazard. 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.760 It turns out Puppet and Little Puppet were right all along. 0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:15.040 My understanding that she she had a relationship with prior 0:23:15.119 --> 0:23:18.840 to the movie. Obviously she was our our technical advisor, 0:23:19.160 --> 0:23:21.520