1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: When people ask me, what are your brothers like? I 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: turned my head and smile. How do you say camp fires, 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: American trucks and wet grass. My brothers are w d forty, 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:21,479 Speaker 1: cast iron gates and thermal underwear. They're broken windows, shell 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: casings and swinging screen doors. Ryan is my twin, Dylan 6 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: is my opposite, but on the right day, we're the same. 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 1: I want to tell you a story, a true story, 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: but truth is always based in opinion, and who's to 9 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: say that we're telling the truth. Welcome to The Dougherty Gang, 10 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,919 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio and Katie Studios, Episode 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: two fifteen in the Morning. I'm Courtney Armstrong, a crime 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: producer at Katie Studios with Stephanie Lydecker. We've been working 13 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: with producer Beth Greenwald on The Dougherty Gang for months now. 14 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: The three siblings have agreed to tell their story for 15 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: the very first time, each from separate prisons. Lee Grace 16 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 1: Dockerty is at Federal correction Institute Aliceville in Alabama, Ryan 17 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: is in United States Penitentiary Tucson in Arizona, and Dylan 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: is at the Federal Corrections Institute in Bennettsville in South Carolina. 19 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: This call was from the Federal prison. Me and Dylan 20 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,119 Speaker 1: were just looking at each other like in a state 21 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: of shock and surprise. If Dylan is under anxiety, you 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: know that I'm going to be under anxiety, because Dylan 23 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: is usually a very cool, calm collected person. I felt 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: like everything was really stacked against us, you know what 25 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 1: I mean. And I just felt like he was just 26 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: unfair from the start. On the afternoon of August one, 27 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, twenty one year old Ryan Dougherty 28 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 1: came home from court, met with his probation officer and 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: found out he was in a situation where he would 30 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: soon be sent to prison, away from his son, who 31 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: was days away from being born. Here he is speaking 32 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: with Beth Greenwald, and so now this guy's at your 33 00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: home and he's telling you all these things in these threats, 34 00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,559 Speaker 1: and is Dylan there. It was with the little shorty 35 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: a k because he had put the majority of the 36 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,560 Speaker 1: firearms in there. And the guy goes over and jiggles 37 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: it because it's got a log chain through two holes 38 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: that are bored into the doors of the shed. And 39 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: I'm already of the mind pretty much we're gonna rock 40 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: and rolling it out of here. The guy gave it 41 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: a mighty little job, and he you know, he came inside. 42 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: He's like, hey, you're gonna did you give me a 43 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,079 Speaker 1: key to dad or open it for me or whatever 44 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: some some ship like that. He leaves, and what happens, Yeah, 45 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 1: he leaves, and then we started talking about things. And 46 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: then my baby's mother tells my brother and sister. She's like, 47 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: holy shit, I can't believe my fucking ears of what 48 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: this guy just threatened. Feeling he was out of options, 49 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 1: he and his siblings, twenty nine oldly Grace and twenty 50 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 1: six year old Dylan, we're grappling with the reality they 51 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: were facing. Here's the Grace. I think all that stress 52 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: was coming out, and he was coming out in negative ways. 53 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:56,160 Speaker 1: And I think Dylan, being the older, protective big brother, 54 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: was looking at this as a short term solution of 55 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: let's run from the problem because the base officer does 56 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: not want to work with Ryan. I wouldn't say I 57 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: was thinking clear. It's hard to explain, but also stars 58 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: had aligned. It was like the gravitational pool was just 59 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: that's what it was. It was just a really bad 60 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: situation for our family. All we knew about prison is 61 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: from what we have seen on TV or movies. We 62 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: basically thought, okay, well you go to prison and you die. 63 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: So with us going into that with that type of fear, 64 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: that type of anxiety, we basically thought that any time 65 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: in prison is a death sentence. You know that. There's 66 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: the state of mind that we were in. We didn't 67 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: know any better. You know, nobody in our family had 68 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: ever been to prison. With the strict mandate the probation 69 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: officer was laying out, Ryan felt like he was in 70 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: an impossible situation. The probation officer comes to your job, 71 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: and Florida's the right to work state. Your probation officer 72 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: comes to your job, and your job's like, yo, you're 73 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: on probation. Man. We don't want to deal with this 74 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: ship or somebody like you. You're fired. You're like, bro, 75 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: if I get fired, I'm going back into prison. Ran 76 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: just felt like he couldn't do the probably Asian, there 77 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: was no way with him having a newborn baby. How 78 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: was he going to facilitate childcare? How was he going 79 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: to drop in that school. There were so many questions 80 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: that we didn't know, and it just seemed impossible to 81 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: work around all these rules. After the probation officer left, 82 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: anxiety and fearmounted and Lee Grayson Dillon met up with 83 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: Ryan at his house to figure out a way to 84 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: protect Ryan and keep him from being sent to jail 85 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: for fifteen years. We were all at the house. We're 86 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,000 Speaker 1: sitting down. I'm writing shoot on paper because I'm dumb 87 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: and paranoid enough to think that the fucking ankle bracelet monitor, 88 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's got like a microphone on it. 89 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: That's how young and stupid I was, and like fucking paranoid. 90 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: That's that's how bad my thought process was at that age. 91 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: We were sketching it out. We would go back and 92 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: forth and kind of trying and figure out what seemed 93 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: like something iron and for plotting. What we were plotting 94 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: was relatively calm about it. So we sit there, we 95 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 1: scotch out a rough plan and that was it as 96 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: I sit now, granted up had ten years to think 97 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 1: about it, But my brain works differently than did that right? 98 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: You know, you can very a very basic litmus has 99 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: is just to say things out loud and if they 100 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: sound stupid, maybe don't do them. And for that one, 101 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: it was just a dumb fucking idea. How long did 102 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: it take for the plan to come into fruition? Was 103 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: in a ten minute conversation? Was it an all night conversation? 104 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: It was pretty much all night because I know, I 105 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: was laying on the couch and I'm talking. Ryan's next 106 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: to me, Dylan's pacing, so it was just everything was 107 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: just happening so fast, and Ryan was just upset. He 108 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: was shaking. It would go from anger to grief to sadness. 109 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: You know, I felt kind of traumatized from the whole 110 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: ship and I just snapped. So yeah, I wasn't exactly 111 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: thinking right, and I was at the point where I 112 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: was almost just happy, just happy that you know this, 113 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: this will force a resolution. Hopefully somebody will pay attention 114 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:48,559 Speaker 1: once they've seen this fucking bomb that went off. Here's 115 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: Dylan again. You know, we're just gonna do this. X 116 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: y Z will get that, and then we'll be gone 117 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: and everything will be all right. You know. The playoff 118 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: was really fluid, but you know, Ryan's girlfriend was going 119 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: to come down south and meet up with us, and 120 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 1: the US settles will this will will be. The wheels 121 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: began to turn and an off the cuff plan was hatched. 122 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 1: Early the next morning, the siblings would pack up and 123 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: head to Mexico, where they'd start fresh. Ryan would send 124 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: for Amber and the baby once they got settled. The 125 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: timeline was very last minute, because at no point did 126 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: we ever look at each other and say, let's get 127 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: in the car, let's load up the guns. Our plans 128 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: were actually to stay under the radar, not just from 129 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: the probation officer, but from anybody that was trying to 130 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 1: track us. I'm not gonna say it was like blind 131 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 1: in my rage, but I was like I was blinded 132 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: by you know, just kind of me in that corner. 133 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: You get to a point, I guess all people probably 134 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: have it where whatever you do snap, it's it's very 135 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: hard to come back to making like rational decisions. I 136 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: just snapped in like a big way. Older sister Lee 137 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: Grace wanted nothing more than to help a little brother 138 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: out of the situation. I think he was under so 139 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 1: much stress that my brother Ryan, he did not know 140 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: what to do. You know, he's a young man, this 141 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 1: is his first baby. He was under a lot of 142 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: pressure from his baby's mother. I've sent some text messages 143 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: that were inappropriate. If it was that bad. Why did 144 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: you just give me probation? The judge in court saying 145 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: in my transcripts, he's like, I'm sorry, I'm lumping you 146 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: in with four year olds at rape eleven year olds, 147 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: But unfortunately our legislator has no difference. He has. Dr 148 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: Avidan Moleski. He's a PhD and associate professor who specializes 149 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: in complex family difficulties and developmental psychology. He's also the 150 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: author of Sibling Issues and Therapy. Dr Mlevski followed the 151 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 1: doctor case closely. Here he is speaking with producer Beth Greenwald. 152 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,239 Speaker 1: When this story first broke, What were your initial thoughts 153 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: on this family, these siblings? My first knee jerk reaction 154 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: to when you hear a story of three a young 155 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: adults driving around violently, shooting at cops across several states 156 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: and bank robberies, and right, your first initial reactions, these 157 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: are criminals, let's go get them. What's sad? And more 158 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: of a rational part of my brain kicks in and 159 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: considering that it was a sibling story, I started reading 160 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: up on this case a little bit further, and then 161 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 1: as a story unfolds and more information comes around, and 162 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: then I started realizing that It's much more complicated than 163 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: the black and white of the good guys and the 164 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: bad guys when you really look at the crime involved 165 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: and how they were sentenced and how they were treated 166 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: even initially. Why Ryan had to be registered as a 167 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: sex offender, that whole story of how it developed is 168 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: a system failure. These siblings, the entire system failed with them. 169 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: The only system that did not fail them is the 170 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: sibling system. It was the only system that took care 171 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: of them, the sibling dynamic that they had. And let 172 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: me ask you something. This thing that happened was going 173 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: to destroy the rest of his life for all intensive purposes, 174 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: register as a sex offender, ankle monitoring device, all these things, 175 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: And did you feel like, just in your opinion, if 176 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: something had been broken down a little bit, if things 177 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: had been explained, if he wasn't looking at fifteen years 178 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: in jails for sex thing? You know, was that a 179 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: system fail as you said, or kind of unpack that 180 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: a little bit if you don't mind, you have to 181 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: register as a sex offender equal to someone a fifty 182 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: year old perfort who raped a kid in a yard. 183 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: They are registered in the same registry because as a 184 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: nineteen year old he sexted someone who thought it was fifteen. 185 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: Now we're obviously not condoining that behavior in any way, 186 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: but do we really equate the actions of the nineteen 187 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: year old that was basically sending a loot text to 188 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: a rapist? We can now again legally we do. And 189 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,439 Speaker 1: that's part of the failure here. He did something far 190 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: less severe than that, and that really spiral this in time. 191 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 1: That's what got this entire story going. So when I 192 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: say it was a system failure, this is one of 193 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: the kegs that failed him. Here's Ryan speaking with Beth 194 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: green Walt. Would you say it was Serve Bivle mode? 195 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: Panic mode? You know your panic, and when you panic, 196 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: you don't think Clark directly when it's a situation like that. 197 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how clearly they were thinking. 198 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: I don't know the thought process. I mean, I know 199 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:13,719 Speaker 1: in my whole life from my brother and sister, it's 200 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: just difficult to say what was going through their head. 201 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,079 Speaker 1: I mean, as they were older than me, not carry 202 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: guilt around with me, and I'm probably well for the 203 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: rest of my life even though they tell me not to. 204 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: Eventually I ruined their whole life and it's just hard 205 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: to live with that. Frank Kazinski is the owner of 206 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 1: Tampa Bay Monitoring. His company has been providing alcohol and 207 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: GPS monitors for over a decade. He shared his thoughts 208 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,199 Speaker 1: on how Ryan's probation was structured. In his case, he 209 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:45,199 Speaker 1: was given this bracelet with the idea that one he 210 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: was responsible for paying for it. And I'm guessing, and 211 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: I don't know this for a fact, that he was 212 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: placed on some form of house arrest, which meant you 213 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 1: had to keep track of everywhere you went if you 214 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: had anything any except pations that had to be approved 215 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: by a probation officer or some authority. And in this case, 216 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: also you have to make sure you kept up the payments, 217 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: Like you gotta go to like meetings like three times 218 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: a week, and you gotta pay like twelve a month 219 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: to beyond that probation. You know, I'm pulling in like 220 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: a month, So you want to under of that, and 221 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: then you want me to sucking be at this place 222 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: at that time. By like as soon as I tell 223 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: my job, hey, I can't work today, I have to 224 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: go to this meeting, they're gonna be like, yeah, we'll 225 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: find another employee. It's the right to work state that's 226 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: a problem. There's jurisdictions such as Tennessee that the state 227 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 1: literally will pay for the bracelet if you can't because 228 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,559 Speaker 1: they figure it's a cheaper way of number one avoids overcrowding. 229 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:46,679 Speaker 1: Two that allows you to keep your job. Three you 230 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: sleep in your own bed with your family. Mommy and 231 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,600 Speaker 1: Daddy are they're not in jail in this case. They 232 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: basically told him that he was responsible for paying for 233 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: this thing and he couldn't do it, and they didn't care. 234 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: It was basically being set up for failure. People charge 235 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: anywhere from eight to fifteen dollars a day, and I mean, 236 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: I don't know too many people can pay fifteen or 237 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes ten dollars a day plus a deposit 238 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: or whatever else is necessary. But why they insisted on 239 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: a payment here when they know the guy you didn't 240 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: have the pot or the window to throw it out 241 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: of his is nonproductive. Ryan was feeling hopeless as he 242 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: processed what this one mistake from two years ago would 243 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: do to the rest of his life. Once you get 244 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: a felony, you're fucking pigeonholed into a goddamn mediocre job 245 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,839 Speaker 1: and a mediocre life and like just barely making it. 246 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: Go figure out what the minimum wage's in Florida at 247 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: the time when I was there, it's like fucking eight 248 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: dollars or some ship. Go figure out what rent costs. 249 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: Go figure out what food costs. Figure out what a 250 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: car payment costs. Are out the cell phone payment costs, 251 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: figure out what insurance costs. There's no way to cover it. 252 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,959 Speaker 1: You know, you get to a point where you're just 253 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: sitting there and you're like, well, what is the point 254 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: of me even being alive anymore? You know, what's the point? 255 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 1: What could I do? The deathbed promised Dylan made to 256 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 1: his dad to look out for his little brother with 257 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,720 Speaker 1: something Dylan took very seriously. He felt powerless, and as 258 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 1: a result, his frustration intensified. The part that really, you 259 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 1: know bothers me is we've all made mistakes. We've all 260 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: done things that we maybe regret a little bit or 261 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: or a lot of it later. I'm not saying everybody's 262 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:25,599 Speaker 1: committed a felony. You know, my brother made an automistakes 263 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,839 Speaker 1: as a kid. It's just another one of those things. 264 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: It's like not unfortunate advance the way that at all unfolded. 265 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: It was like we were all on pins and needles. 266 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: I could just see anger Dylan and just build with 267 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: his anger. It's just coming out of him. And it 268 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,800 Speaker 1: was just a really anxious time. Lee Grace was struggling 269 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: with her addiction to drugs and was coming off the vendor. 270 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: The situation was forcing her to quit pills cold Turkey. 271 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 1: I don't feel good. I need my kills, and they're 272 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: basically saying no, you don't. You know, so I don't 273 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: have any pills with me. I don't have any drug footsoever. 274 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,959 Speaker 1: So you know, all my zanex are gone. I'd eaten 275 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: all of them. We're going to take a quick break here. 276 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. The plan was to 277 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: try to get some sleep and leave first thing in 278 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: the morning. I remember I was extremely drowsy. I had 279 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,400 Speaker 1: only slept for about four or five hours, and I 280 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: got up and it was early in the morning. I 281 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: just remember being on the porch and looking and I'm 282 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: looking now and it's it's very bright and everything is 283 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: just kind of happening. But I'm just physically there. I'm 284 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: not my emotions are just somewhere else. I was almost 285 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: kind of emotionally shut down. But I remember carrying things 286 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: and putting them in the back of the subaru, and 287 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: I'm just looking at Dylan and I'm just following him. 288 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to kind of gauge how everything is 289 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: gonna happen. But at the same time, you don't know 290 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 1: something bad is going to happen. You just have a 291 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: very ominous feeling. As the Doctrity has packed up the car, 292 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: it was obvious their plan came from a place of panic, 293 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 1: not common sense. The siblings weren't prepared on any level 294 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: for the journey ahead. You're not gonna be honest with you. 295 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:09,560 Speaker 1: I don't even think we packed any food or water. 296 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: You know, later on down the line, we thought we're like, hey, man, 297 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: we should probably get a water bottle, just a really 298 00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: simple water bottle. At one point, I was going back 299 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: and forth. Am I gonna go with them the whole 300 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: way to Mexico with them? Or maybe I was going 301 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: to stay with Amber because you know, she's about to 302 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: give birth to this baby, and I wanted to be 303 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: there for my nephew and help out with the baby. 304 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: And even if it was only in my own head, 305 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 1: I was thinking, well, maybe I need to stay with 306 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: Amber as you know, her older sister, or you know, 307 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,000 Speaker 1: to look out for the rest of the family that 308 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: we would be leaving behind. Um. Now, when I got 309 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: in the car and um we we left, that's why 310 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: I decided, well, this is this is where I'm at, 311 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: This is I'm going to continue to stay with Ryan 312 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: and Diylan because they need me. I think we knew 313 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: we should need the money before we left Florida at 314 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: that point, you know what I mean, it was it 315 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 1: was just a whirlwind. I had so many tools. I 316 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: probably could have you got on the arnet and had 317 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:09,720 Speaker 1: a you know, on eBay and had a yard sale 318 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: and come up with dollars. In retrospect, it's easy to 319 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: see that selling the tools would have been a smarter 320 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: plan than packing up the guns to sell. We were 321 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: going to cross into Mexico once we had cash, because 322 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 1: we didn't want any credit cards. We didn't want any 323 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: ties to where we were going. The docertees didn't have 324 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: much money on them and they knew they would need 325 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: cash to make it to Mexico undetected. We actually had 326 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: my brother's guns and he was going to sell them 327 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: to make money. Dylan's friend was going to purchase the 328 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: guns from us and give us cash. I feel like 329 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: I did, would uh, you know anybody? We do as 330 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: far as you know, maybe not as going to the 331 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: degree that I carried in, but I know the great 332 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 1: set of shumen. On the other foot, I wouldn't even 333 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: have to ask something on They would have been there 334 00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: for me just as much as I was there for Ryan. 335 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: And Ryan loving Amber the way he did. If he's 336 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: separated from someone he loves, he's going to go off 337 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: the deep end. So a lot of his thought process 338 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 1: was what do I do without my baby's mom? What 339 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: do I do without the baby? So you know that 340 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: really factored in. It was harsh. It was very harsh 341 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: on him. He was very sad, He was very lonely. 342 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: You know, he was expressing a lot of distress. Amber 343 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: was due to give birth in a matter of days 344 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: and it crushed Ryan to leave her. Here again is 345 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: Ryan speaking with Beth greenmalt So you knew it was 346 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,719 Speaker 1: a son before you left, correct you guys found out 347 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: the sex of the baby? Yeah? I did. I went with. 348 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: I took off of work. You know what, man, it 349 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: was the weirdest thing that would make her happy. Man. 350 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: She was just so happy that I would be willing 351 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: to take off of work to come, and I'm like 352 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: taking her myself. I'm like, man, she's crazy if she 353 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: thought that she could keep me from coming to go 354 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 1: to the ultrasound, whether to see if it was a 355 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: boy or a girl. I had a ritual with her. 356 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 1: I would always come back in and uh, kids her 357 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: goodbye before I went to work. I'd leave, I get 358 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: all the way out, and I have like a little ritual. 359 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm all the way back in the house and I 360 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: pull the cover down just a little bit because she 361 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: always goes back to bed because I get up so 362 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: fucking early to work, and I always give her a 363 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: kiss and I always tell her I love her, some 364 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: thing I would always do before I went to bed, 365 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: and uh, I got to go back inside. She's all pregnant, 366 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: belly and big and standing on like the front stoop 367 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: on the inside crying, you know, And I told her 368 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: I loved during goodbye. Driving away, I drive about fifteen 369 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: miles away from the house. Twenty miles away from the house, 370 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: I'm like, ah, I can't have this ankle pricelet no 371 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: more cut it off. I wrapped it up with its 372 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: box neatly, and I said it nicely on the side 373 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: of the road in a place where they could easily 374 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: locate it and get their ship back. Once you line out, 375 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: of course, and you commit yourself to it for some 376 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: things that you just can't take back. You know, once 377 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: you cross that rubicon, you're just fucked like you to 378 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: that cause and you've got no choice but to see 379 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: it through. Here's some additional inside from dr Abbadan Mileski's 380 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: conversation with Beth Ryan. Obviously commit a crime two years 381 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: earlier than the start of this quote unquote crime spree, 382 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: and he was labeled as sexual offender, and he's the 383 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: first to admit and take ownership of that what he 384 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 1: did was wrong. But he was eighteen or nineteen and 385 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,480 Speaker 1: he sent sexually an appropriate text to a minor. Now 386 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: a nineteen year old is not functioning completely in terms 387 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,479 Speaker 1: of decision making. Our magic reaction is, oh, he's a criminal. 388 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: That's it. Either he's got a rap sheet already. And 389 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: we think in this black and white way when it 390 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 1: comes to cool criminals, when you start puling white, and 391 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: I think this story is a window into this larger 392 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 1: issue of how do we deal with quote criminals, and 393 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,080 Speaker 1: we just boxed them all in. And this sex registry 394 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: is the greatest example of that. But socially, psychologically, developmental, psychology, neurologically, 395 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: it's a whole different story. So again, the system, many 396 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: systems failed them, except for the symboling system. And let's 397 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: go back a little bit, because you know, their father 398 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: really instilled in the children from a young age the 399 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 1: importance of family. So how does that land. You know, 400 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: in that family dynamic, they were clearly a close knit 401 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 1: a bunch of siblings, and then you add all these 402 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: stressors to it, and that closest just survives even further, 403 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: and that sibling closeness or that sibling compensation is kicking 404 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: in now in a very powerful way in order to 405 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: help the siblings continue working together to deal with this 406 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: new life adversity. The Doperties were looking forward to a 407 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: fresh start. Unfortunately they did not foresee what would happen next. 408 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,680 Speaker 1: We're only in the car about maybe twenty minutes, maybe thirty. 409 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:44,120 Speaker 1: You know, we had just gotten in the car and 410 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 1: I had just we had just come from the gas station, 411 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: and I was very drowsy. I was sleeping on and off, 412 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: and as soon as the cops got behind us, That's 413 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: when I immediately woke up and realized there's a problem. 414 00:20:57,359 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: You know, I'm looking at Dylan, well what are we 415 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: gonna do? And you know, we're all in that state 416 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: of panic. I think when the cop um when he 417 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,439 Speaker 1: put his lights on. I don't remember if he actually 418 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: put the siren on, but I do remember him putting 419 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: the lights on, and at that moment, you know, it's 420 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: like seven or seven fifteen in the morning, I thought, well, 421 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: there's no turning back now, because now the police are involved. 422 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: At any point before that, I think we could have 423 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: made a different decision. We could have gone a different 424 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: way and the police would never have gotten behind us, 425 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: and we would have just had continued our merry way 426 00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: to getting rid of the guns, selling them legally and 427 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: getting the money and just leaving the United States. Remember 428 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: somebody asking, you know, hey, are you are you gonna 429 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:44,440 Speaker 1: pull over? Or you know, what are you gonna do? 430 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: Was there ever a moment where you thought about pulling 431 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: overt from like the first little bit, I have an 432 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: asshole lo the guns in the car. I'm a convicted felon. 433 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: I just caught off my ankle brace that monitor for me, 434 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: that ever got crossed as soon as I cut that 435 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,120 Speaker 1: bright set up and a cop pulls out and Cherry's 436 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:12,040 Speaker 1: up pops his lights on me. Here's Detective Kevin Widner. 437 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,639 Speaker 1: At the time, he was an officer on the Zephyr 438 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 1: Hill Police Department. Here he is speaking with Beth Greenwald. 439 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: I would love to hear from your perspective what you 440 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: remember about that day and how it started for you 441 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: and what happened from there. Started out like any other 442 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: day for me. I just went and I got my 443 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:29,679 Speaker 1: cup of coffee, and then I was going to run radar, 444 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: do some traffic control. I set up a sixth street, 445 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: which is a one way street and Zephyr Hills speed 446 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: limit was thirty through there. And as I was running 447 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: and car passed me doing and pulled in behind it 448 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: turn on my lights. I knew they wasn't going to stop, 449 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:53,920 Speaker 1: just based off the way that they was acting. Let's 450 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: stop here for another quick break. We'll be back in 451 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 1: a moment. The docertees wanted to fly under the radar, 452 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: but less than thirty minutes into their ride to Mexico 453 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: did engaged police and I'm like, well, funk I can't 454 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: pull over, So then I take off and I started running, 455 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 1: and then they made a right hand turn onto fifty 456 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: four from sixth Street, and as soon as they made 457 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 1: that right turn, they started shooting at me several rounds. 458 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: And then at that point again that I pursued them, 459 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: there were still more shots being fired from the past 460 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: or side of that vehicle. Whoever was in in that 461 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 1: fast seat, it was still firing at me as we 462 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: just one down fifty four. It was just me at 463 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: that time. I didn't have any backup unit, so I 464 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: tried to keep some distance between us, just keep a 465 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:49,920 Speaker 1: little bit of visual on speedis were about a hundred 466 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 1: miles are a little over. With his focus on his 467 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: family and his future, Ryan made a life altering decision 468 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: and a split second wasn't personal. It was between me 469 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: and my freedom. I did what I thought I had 470 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: to do. From a lack of good options came a 471 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: shitty option. We were not that the type of family 472 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,200 Speaker 1: to physically harm somebody, because we know what physical harm 473 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: can do to somebody's body. You can become paralyzed, or 474 00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:19,240 Speaker 1: you know, you could end up in a wheelchair. So 475 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: in no way, what do we actually aim a gun 476 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: at someone's physical body. From the sound of it, I 477 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: thought that they sprayed the whole side of my car, 478 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: but actually they just got the front driver's side tire. 479 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,440 Speaker 1: Speedes went back up to about a hundred miles per hour. 480 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: My front tire was flat, so I couldn't keep up 481 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 1: with them safely. At that point, Officer Widner had vowed 482 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,440 Speaker 1: to protect and serve and he was not going to 483 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: be deterred right away. It's game on. They are obviously 484 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: a danger. If they're gonna shoot at me like that, 485 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: then obviously they're a danger to a citizens. So we're 486 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 1: going to do what we need to do to stop 487 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: that threat. At the end of the day, I made 488 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: a plan. It was shitty. It was take enough money 489 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: to get out of country, to be somewhere that doesn't 490 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: have extradition treaties, and to try and start a light there. 491 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:09,640 Speaker 1: It wasn't a good idea. It was never a good plan. 492 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: It was never a good idea. But I didn't think 493 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: well when I was that age. As soon as I 494 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: come around the corner and I see a muzzle flash 495 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: from the a K and it's one of those old 496 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,640 Speaker 1: ship moments. And to be honest with you remember being 497 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: woken up out of like a cold sleep, just hearing 498 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 1: like some hell on wheels behind anything with the motor 499 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: and some wheels in a car probably outran the cops 500 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: a hundred times. I did not get this tag number 501 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 1: right off the bed. Also, I knew it was an 502 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: out of state tag. End of the car that was speedy. 503 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:43,119 Speaker 1: Anything north of a hundred is a pretty good clip. 504 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,920 Speaker 1: But for me, like you know, I'll hang out of 505 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 1: like a hundred twenty or a hundred thirty on the 506 00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: interstate and think nothing of it. They was showing total 507 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: disregard for everybody's safety. Pull it over as an option. 508 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: It's too easy in that area to hit some left 509 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 1: and rights on him and disappear people. They're like, you 510 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,200 Speaker 1: cannot run the radio. Bull it. More on that next time. 511 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 1: The Dougherty Gang is executive produced by Stephanie lie Decker 512 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: and me Courtney Armstrong, along with Beth Greenwald, Sean McEwen, 513 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 1: and Joseph Morgan. Editing and sound design is by Jeff Twa, 514 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 1: mixing by Peter Nay. Additional producing by Chris Graves and 515 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,959 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane. The Doctor Gang is a production of iHeart 516 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: Radio and Katie Studios. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, 517 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,679 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 518 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,160 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.