1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,279 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: Where does this fit in into the tapestry of your 3 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:21,080 Speaker 1: family history. 4 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: It's not something that the family has taken with any 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 2: kind of joy. My father would mention Armor on occasion, 6 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 2: but he wouldn't say anything about why we didn't know Armor, 7 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 2: that we'd never met him, you know, as one of 8 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 2: our uncles and his sisters who were my grandfather's children, 9 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,599 Speaker 2: my aunts, they just didn't want to talk about. If 10 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: it came up, it was whispered about. It wasn't something 11 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 2: you know, you broadcast, because again, they were pillars of 12 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 2: the community. They were very deeply religious. We didn't even 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: want to acknowledge that they are of the family. 14 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: Los Angeles during the early years of Prohibition was a 15 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: city that drew to it great artists and sleazy kahnmen 16 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,400 Speaker 1: like Armor Phillips. But in July of nineteen twenty two, 17 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: Armor had more to worry about than just the police, 18 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 1: because his wife, Clara, believed that he was cheating on 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: her with a young widow named Alberta Meadows. Clara had 20 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: always been dramatic. She was a chorus girl who had 21 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: hoped to be a movie star. But lately she was 22 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 1: increasingly agitated and their fights became more violent. Clara Phillips 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: was at her neighbor, Julia McElroy's house on Flower Street. 24 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: She flinched when she heard the loud knocking. It was 25 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:50,120 Speaker 1: her husband Armor, and he sounded furious. He yelled for 26 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: Missus McElroy to let him inside. It was Saturday, July 27 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: eighth of nineteen twenty two. Clara hid quietly behind a 28 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 1: door and listened as her husband bellowed at Missus McElroy. 29 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: He had no idea that his wife was hiding around 30 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: the corner listening. He said that Clara was the cheater, 31 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: not him. He knew she had spent the night with 32 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: a man named Harry Karst. Now Armor wanted to thrash 33 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: the man for sleeping with his wife. Where is he, 34 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: Armor demanded to know. He said that his friend Alberta 35 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: Meadows had told him all about it. Clara had actually 36 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,559 Speaker 1: come to the house that day to thrash Missus McElroy 37 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: for spreading all these vile rumors about her sleeping with 38 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: another man, but Armor had interrupted. Now Clara was livid 39 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: at him. She stepped into the living room and screamed 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: at Armor that he was the cheater, not her Armer 41 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: said he was going to leave her for Alberta. It 42 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: was over. Their marriage was over. He told her, I'll 43 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:57,079 Speaker 1: own up to it. Alberta did tell me. Author Claudine 44 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: Burnett says Clara felt betrayed for several reasons. 45 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: The money that she thought Armor should be spending on 46 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: her was going to another woman. 47 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: She accused Armor of buying Alberta an expensive wristwatch. Armor 48 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: denied it and quickly stormed out. Missus McElroy looked at 49 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: Clara with pity and tried to make her feel better, 50 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: but Clara got up, slammed the door, and walked around 51 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 1: in a haze. She just wasn't sure what to do. 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 1: That night, Clara returned home to her older sister, Ola May. 53 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: She was pale and shaky and making threats. She wanted 54 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: to die, and she picked up a bottle of poison. 55 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: She screamed, he doesn't love me anymore. Missus McElroy did 56 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: not tell him of that stuff about me staying with 57 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: another man. Someone else told him. She told Ola May 58 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: that Alberta Meadows was to blame. Ola May screamed and 59 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: tried to snatch the poison from her, and then Clara cried, 60 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: there's another woman and he's turned me down for I 61 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: don't want to live. Clara started having convulsions and it 62 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: took an hour for her sister to calm her down. 63 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 1: Ola May said, I thought she was dying. I realized 64 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: her heart had been broken. After Clara had finally stopped crying, 65 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: she picked up the phone and asked the operator to 66 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: dial Peggy Caffe's number. Clara hated armor, and she had 67 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: a plan that involved Peggy. Three days later, Clara and 68 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: Peggy went shopping. They didn't talk about Alberta or armor 69 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: or anything really. Clara just wanted Peggy along for the company. 70 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: Clara bought a skirt, a pair of slippers, and some stockings. 71 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,839 Speaker 1: As they stood on Broadway, she told Peggy that she 72 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: just needed one more thing. 73 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 4: Downtown was the place to go to go shopping in 74 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 4: those days, and they had a lot of five and 75 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 4: dime stores and that kind of thing. So while they 76 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 4: were out that day, Peggy went with Clara into one 77 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 4: of these stores. She said, she didn't I don't think 78 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 4: she remembered which one it was. 79 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: They descended the stairs into the store's basement as soft 80 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: music played. Clara giggled as she hummed the tune. She 81 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: told Peggy that she wanted to buy a heavy hammer, 82 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: one with claws on it to pull out tacks. They 83 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,520 Speaker 1: slowly walked up and down the aisles before heading to 84 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: the front counter. A clawhammer with a label fifteen cents 85 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: seemed to interest Clara, so she picked it up. She 86 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 1: told Peggy that this was all she needed. Clara glanced 87 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: at the clerk and asked a question that should have 88 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: seemed troubling at the time, but very soon it would 89 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: be quoted in newspapers around the world. 90 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 4: She sort of coyly said, to the guy behind the 91 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 4: count or the clerk, do you think this is heavy 92 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 4: enough to kill someone? 93 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: The clerk thought she was joking or something, and she 94 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: smiled as he joked back, you. 95 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 4: Know, I think that would do the job. No one 96 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 4: except Clara knew she just how serious she was about 97 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:10,840 Speaker 4: that she. 98 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: Bought the hammer. Clara never mentioned her anger at Armor, 99 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: the betrayal she felt over his affair with Alberta Meadows, 100 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: which he thought was an affair. She actually seemed cheerful 101 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: with Peggy as she carried the brown package tied with 102 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: blue string Clara wanted to drink an alcoholic drink, so 103 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: they stopped by a friend's room in a hotel on 104 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: Tenth Street. The man was a stage hand they knew 105 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: when they were chorus girls. They said about five minutes, 106 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,200 Speaker 1: just long enough to discover that he didn't have any gin. 107 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: Clara wanted to continue bonding with Peggy, so she asked 108 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: to stay the night at Peggy's apartment. Clara said, my 109 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: husband is home, but I am not going home tonight. 110 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: Mother said he was there, but I am not going 111 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: back home. So Armor had not spent the night with 112 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: Alberta that night, according to Clara's mother, who lived with him, 113 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: but Clara ignored that bit of information. Clara called a 114 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 1: taxi and returned to Peggy's apartment in Long Beach. As 115 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: they settled in for a girl's night, Clara began to 116 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 1: talk a lot. She described the upsetting conversation earlier with 117 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: Missus McElroy and her husband. He had denied it, but 118 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,239 Speaker 1: she knew the truth. She was absolutely furious with Armor. 119 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 3: They had a few drinks and they opened up to 120 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: one another. Peggy said she was also having problems with 121 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: her husband, and then Clara said that she had heard 122 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 3: that her husband was also having an affair. 123 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,840 Speaker 1: Peggy's husband was a field worker with Standard Oil and 124 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: Long Beach. They had only been married for two years 125 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: and their relationship already seemed stressful. Peggy was also young 126 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: and she really needed a friend like Clara. 127 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 3: They remember they were barely out of their teens. Peggy 128 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 3: was only twenty and Clara was twenty three. So they 129 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 3: got a girls get together. Signal Hill was a place 130 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 3: that was rampant with speakeasies, with places that you could 131 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 3: get liquor because that's where the oil workers worked, and 132 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 3: when they were done with a busy day on the 133 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: oil rigs, they wanted to have their liquor. 134 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 1: As Clara talked about armor, Peggy seemed empathetic, almost honored. 135 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 3: Peggy thought, wow, she's really opening up to me telling 136 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 3: me about Ali for problems. 137 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: Clara needed to catch armor with Alberta. He couldn't talk 138 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: his way out of it. If Clara had proof, not 139 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: just rumors floating around with Missus McElroy, and so she 140 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,880 Speaker 1: was ready to confront her husband's mistress to confirm one 141 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: way or the other if they were sleeping together. So 142 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: she asked her good friend for a favor. 143 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 4: She convinced Peggy to go over to Alberta's apartment, so. 144 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 3: They decided to do what young girls do. They decided 145 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: to check it out, so they went over to where 146 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 3: Alberta lived and sort of cased her joint for a 147 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 3: while to see if maybe Clara's husband would show up. 148 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: It was Tuesday, July eleventh. Clara was covered in a 149 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: dark cape when she and Peggy called a taxicab that night. 150 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: Clara seemed really agitated, so Peggy tried to calm down 151 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: her friend. She told her, don't believe everything you hear. Nevertheless, 152 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: the pair rode to Alberta's home in the Arvilla apartments 153 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: on West thirty seventh Street in San Fernando Valley, and 154 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: they paused outside as Clara explained the plan. She would 155 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: climb the back steps and listen at Alberta's door. Clara 156 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: might even try the door, burst in and see if 157 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: Armor was inside so she could catch him. Clara said 158 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: she wasn't quite sure what she was going to do 159 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: if she did catch her husband there with his lover, 160 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: but she was livid and she wasn't listening to reason. 161 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: She was determined to wait there until Armor turned up 162 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,839 Speaker 1: with Alberta. They climbed the steps at the back of 163 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 1: the apartment building. They found a small alcove where the 164 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: building's bathtubs were for the residence. Peggy stood in the 165 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: dark as Clara tiptoed down the hallway and stopped at 166 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: Alberta's door on the right side. She put her ear 167 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: to the door. 168 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 5: Nothing. 169 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: She looked through the people. No one was there. As 170 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: Peggy stood around, she wondered what might happen if Armor 171 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: were there. Lots of screaming, she assumed, maybe even a fight. 172 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: But after quite a while, Clara returned to the alcove. 173 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: She had grown tired of waiting, but it was late 174 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 1: and Alberta wasn't home asleep. To Clara, that seemed very telling. Honestly, 175 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: Peggy felt a little bit relieved. She might have been 176 00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: drunk from bathtub gin. They found it a speakeasy, but 177 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 1: she was sober enough to hope to avoid a confrontation. 178 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 1: Peggy listened to Clara closely during the cab ride home. 179 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: Clara was now convinced that Armor was sleeping with Alberta Meadows. 180 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: Clara asked to spend the night at Peggy's apartment, in 181 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:55,160 Speaker 1: Long Beach. She couldn't bear facing her husband, not without 182 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: a plan, and she was making one now. As they 183 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: slept next to each other, Peggy silently hoped that this 184 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: excursion they took to Alberta's apartment might have been the 185 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,559 Speaker 1: end of all of this. Of course, she was very wrong. 186 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: The next morning, Armor Phillips was concerned and nervous. The 187 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: last thing a grifter needed was attention, and his wife 188 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: seemed to thrive on it. He might have been a jerk, 189 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: he could have been a cheater, but he had never 190 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: been violent with her. Although true crime author Joan Rinner 191 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: says that Armor wasn't totally innocent here. 192 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 4: He was handsome, very nice looking guy, a real cad 193 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 4: oh god, and just a con artist. 194 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: Of course, Armor wasn't the only immoral man in Los 195 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: Angeles in the nineteen twenties. There were loads of them, 196 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,200 Speaker 1: especially in local government. Prohibition made it easy for swindlers 197 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: to bribe corrupt politicians to cheat the system. 198 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 4: There were a lot of players, but they were attached 199 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 4: to city Hall. They called it the city Hall gang 200 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 4: or the combination, and what it was was literally a 201 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 4: combination of elected politicians and then sort of a shadow 202 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 4: government that ran under the service, and they're the ones 203 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 4: who ran the raggets in LA. They ran them in 204 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 4: as far as they were let off their lease to 205 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 4: run them. But it was city Hall. It was always 206 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:30,319 Speaker 4: city Hall. 207 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: It was a frightening time in America. The homicide rate 208 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties had increased by as much as 209 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: almost eighty percent from the decade before. Varying levels of 210 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: corruption tainted local governments and police departments across the country. 211 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: Judges enjoyed immunity from arrest, and many police worked without restraint. 212 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: Most major cities were ruled by crime bosses like al Capone, 213 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,359 Speaker 1: but surprisingly not in Los Angeles. 214 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 4: LA had a reputation for running gangsters out. A lot 215 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 4: of times LAPD cops would meet the train if they 216 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 4: knew someone was coming in. They met the train for 217 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 4: al Capone's brother, They met the train for al Capone, 218 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 4: I think came out once, or tried to. They would 219 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 4: just turn them right back around and say, we don't 220 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 4: need you, we don't want you. 221 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 1: Armor Phillips had managed to operate his scams quietly in LA. 222 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: Lucky for him, he might have had the police in 223 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 1: southern California fooled, but his wife, Clara thought she finally 224 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: understood what he was doing behind her back with another woman. 225 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: He had repeatedly tried to tell her that he and 226 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: Alberta were just friends. 227 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 3: Clara was still sure that he was having an affair. 228 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 3: There were all sorts of signs that she was reading into. 229 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 3: Whether they were true or not, I don't know. 230 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: Clara was sharply focused on Armor and their life together. 231 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: It was all falling apart, and she knew it. Clara's 232 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: great nephew, Daniel Phillips says she quickly realized that she 233 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: was losing everything and it scared her to death. 234 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: She was wanting to be not only the center of 235 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 2: attention wherever she was, but also the center of her 236 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 2: husband's life. 237 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:11,480 Speaker 5: It was all about her. 238 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, very much an narcissist. She always coveted what other 239 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: people had. Arma was her baby. Since she couldn't have children, 240 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: Armor was her baby. 241 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 5: It seems like that's a possession on those less love. 242 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: I'm not sure she had the ability to like, actually 243 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: deeply love, because I think to love someone you actually 244 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: have to be willing to give of yourself. 245 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 5: She could turn it on and off. 246 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: Clara was clearly unstable and violent, and according to her sister, 247 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: Ola May, she had a long history of tantrums that 248 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 1: could have turned deadly. Ola May said that Clara slapped 249 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: her younger sister Eda and then pushed her so hard 250 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: that she tumbled over a storage trunk, hurting her back. 251 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: Ola May screamed, you whipped Etta, and Clara replied, me 252 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: strike my baby sister, sir, there's a little gaslighting there. 253 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: After her violent outbursts, Clara would immediately black out and 254 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: forget what had just happened. At least that's what her 255 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: claim was. Clara was an habitual liar. Ola May described 256 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: several violent attacks against their own mother. They seemed to 257 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: come out of nowhere. With Clara, she just snapped. She 258 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: would scratch at someone's face and attack her, seemingly out 259 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: of nowhere. Clara was wild eyed even as a child. 260 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: Ola May said she would drop to the floor in 261 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: one of her spells. Her first spell came when she 262 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 1: was just five years old. She had so many spasms 263 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: I cannot enumerate them. And Clara didn't just hurt her family. 264 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: She had smacked several chorus girls in her show. She 265 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: broke things in her dressing room, and Clara hid from 266 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: armor that it wasn't just her own troubling history. Clara's 267 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: brother Henry was unstable, even delusional, and her father, John Weaver, 268 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: was even worse. 269 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 4: He had a history of, at least according to some 270 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 4: family members, of some violent episodes. Her father had killed 271 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,760 Speaker 4: a horse front of the family. I mean there may 272 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 4: have been something wrong with him. 273 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: Ola May said that one day the family heard a 274 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: terrible noise in the yard. She said that John Weaver, 275 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: Clara's father, was holding a rock and pounding it against 276 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,240 Speaker 1: his horse's head in a fit of rage. Mama said, John, 277 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:28,400 Speaker 1: what are you doing? Then he turned on Mama. Clara's 278 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 1: father immediately denied that ever happened, even though there were 279 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: witnesses standing right there. Ola May accused their father of 280 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 1: beating her badly when she was just fourteen, after he 281 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: grabbed her by the hair, keeping one foot on my hair, 282 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: he began beating me. I was sick for several days. 283 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: Even the local postmaster was frightened of Clara's father because 284 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: John Weaver pulled a knife out just because he hadn't 285 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: received any mail, and the sisters accused their father of 286 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: almost killing their mother Clara's family blamed her outbursts on 287 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: some kind of mental break. They had defended her and 288 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: the rest of the Weavers to just about everyone for decades. 289 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: The Weavers protected each other. They refused to believe that 290 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: Clara was ever malicious, just misunderstood and probably troubled, but 291 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 1: her beauty and charm gave her a pass on just 292 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: about all of it. So some type of mental break 293 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: might have seemed plausible at the time, But now, almost 294 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 1: a century later, there's a more likely and more frightening 295 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: diagnosis for Clara Phillips and her seemingly unpredictable behavior. Her 296 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: great nephew, Daniel Phillips says it was calculating, manipulative, and 297 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: not at all random. She was a callous and cold 298 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: hearted woman, and he says that it sounded like a 299 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: particular diagnosis, one that was not yet officially recognized in 300 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,360 Speaker 1: psychology in the nineteen twenties. 301 00:17:54,080 --> 00:18:00,359 Speaker 2: She was a psychopath with narcissistic tendencies. It's very parent 302 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 2: that you don't want to send someone like that off, 303 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 2: because they'll basically go beyond the edge, that'll lay waste, 304 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: and then they'll forget about it. 305 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,399 Speaker 1: Doctor Craig Newman agrees. He's a forensic psychiatry professor at 306 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: the University of North Texas near Dallas, and he's one 307 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: of the nation's most prolific researchers on psychopathy. He says 308 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: that people suffering from psychopathy are diagnosed using a list 309 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: of symptoms, ideally based on interviews with the subject. We 310 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: talked a little bit about this in season one with 311 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 1: Edward Ruloff. It's called the hair pcl dash are a 312 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: diagnostic tool used to rate a person's psychopathic or antisocial tendencies. 313 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,200 Speaker 1: It's the only scientific way to diagnose a psychopath right now. 314 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: But doctor Newman says that psychopathy is on a sliding scale. 315 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: It's not black and white, So essentially, some people have 316 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 1: more severe symptoms than others. 317 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 6: It's not like pregnancy, you're pregnant or you're not pregnant. 318 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 6: It's more like hypertension. You're certain, mild, moderate, or severe hypertension. 319 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 6: And what we find is people who even have just 320 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 6: a small dose of these toxic traits are more aggressive, 321 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 6: are more violent, abuse alcohol, more showed decrements in intellectual functioning, 322 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 6: and we can measure these features in kids. 323 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: The list contains twenty descriptors including a grandiose estimation of self, 324 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: pathological lying, cunning and manipulativeness, lack of remorse or guilt, 325 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: and parasitic lifestyle. The subject is ranked on a scale 326 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 1: from zero to two for each item zero for neurotypicals 327 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: people who think, perceive, and behave in ways that are 328 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: considered normal by the general population. The higher the score, 329 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: the higher the level of psychopathy, so forty is the maximum. Ideally, 330 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: a psychologist versed in psychopathy would have interviewed Clara using 331 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: the Hair checklist, but there's evidence of psychopathy from her behavior, 332 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: according to Newman, based on the extensive documentation about her 333 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 1: life and her detailed interviews. As we learn about her 334 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: life and study her reaction, it's easy to recognize some 335 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: of those items from Hair's list. It looks to me 336 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 1: like she would have scored in the mid thirties, demonstrating 337 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,720 Speaker 1: a high level of psychopathy. And why we can't definitively 338 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: diagnose Clara Phillips as someone suffering from psychopathy. We know 339 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: enough to want to learn more about the personality disorder. 340 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 6: People who are psychopathic are aggressive and are violent often, 341 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 6: but this over at antisociality shows up very early. It 342 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 6: shows up when kids are three, four, or five years 343 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 6: of age. 344 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,120 Speaker 1: But researchers won't label a child with psychopathy because their 345 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: brains just aren't developed enough to have a conclusive diagnosis. 346 00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 6: If you see a kid with just callousness, without this 347 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 6: overt antisociality, that's probably not going to be psychopathy when 348 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 6: the kid eventually grows and matures. So we have to 349 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 6: think about how to measure psychopathy first and foremost before 350 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 6: we start pointing our finger on who might be psychopathic 351 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 6: or not. 352 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: But experts do look at traits that some children have 353 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: to help understand how young psychopathic might behave as they 354 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 1: grow older. Clara Phillips had her own troubles in her childhood. 355 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: According to her sisters Olame and Etta, Clara had been 356 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:15,280 Speaker 1: aggressive and violent as far back as they could remember. 357 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: That's another trait of a psychopath early behavioral problems. Her 358 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: family blamed it on epileptic seizures, but no doctors could 359 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: actually confirm that she suffered from that specific condition, and 360 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: medical experts say that if she were truly epileptic, it's 361 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: unlikely those convulsions would have caused her to be violent 362 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: with anyone but herself, so Clara would erupt in violence 363 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: and then conveniently forget what she had done. She essentially 364 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: batted her eyelashes and feigned innocence. It was all very convenient. 365 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: One of the traits of a psychopath is parasitic behavior. 366 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: They only take from people they don't give, and now 367 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: she was incensed over her husband's infidelity. Doctor Newman says 368 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: that Clara Phillips was a parasite and Armor was her host. 369 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 6: Women who are psychopathic, they need a man, perhaps that 370 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,920 Speaker 6: in that day and age, to parasite off of, and 371 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 6: so that could have very well been that her possession 372 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 6: was being threatened. 373 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 1: Psychopaths are often focused on just one thing, and it's 374 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: the one thing that matters the most to them. Daniel 375 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: Phillips says that Clara's goal was saving her marriage. Does 376 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 1: she confront him about Alberta before everything happens. 377 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: With Arba, No, Because I think in her mind everything 378 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: that she saw is a challenge. She was already trying 379 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 2: to figure out a way to surmount that challenge and 380 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 2: to get past it. 381 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:45,119 Speaker 5: That's just kind of the way her mind worked. 382 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: It's not really that she loved Armor, it's that she 383 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: needed him desperately. 384 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 6: When they get so focused on a goal, they can't 385 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 6: modulate their behavior given a certain context. So if they 386 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 6: need money, they may not see that there's a cop 387 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 6: standing on the corner where the store is. That they're 388 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 6: going to go in and rop. 389 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: So there's no fear of repercussions because the goal is so. 390 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 6: Right right, And that's an important point when you say 391 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 6: there's no fear. 392 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: Some psychopaths are extraordinarily intelligent, like Edward rule Off. But 393 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: another trait is that they often seem brighter than they 394 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: actually are. It's part of their superficial charm. True psychopathy 395 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,000 Speaker 1: is actually quite rare. It affects just one to two 396 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: percent of the general population, according to doctor Newman, but 397 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: his research found that the percentage is four to five 398 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: times higher in the corporate world. 399 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 6: In our society, some of the corporate research that I've done, 400 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:47,880 Speaker 6: we have corporations that are cutthroat, manipulative, short term goal seeking, 401 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 6: lacking in accountability. It's the perfect environment for psychopaths. 402 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,680 Speaker 1: A lack of long term goals was another character trait 403 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: in Clara. She never seemed to look ahead by more 404 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 1: than just a few weeks, let alone a few years. 405 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: She might have been right and manipulative and charming a psychopath, 406 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: but she also might have been doomed thanks to her 407 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: personality disorder and her horrible choices. 408 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 6: Now here's the thing with personality pathology. Often the psychopath 409 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 6: may do something that is deceptive and connie and get 410 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 6: away with it, but in the long run, they foul 411 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 6: their own nests. 412 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,560 Speaker 1: And now Clara Phillips threatened to destroy her husband's life 413 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: and her own one way or the other. When Clara 414 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: Phillips found out that her husband was allegedly cheating, she 415 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: thought she needed support, so she reached out to her 416 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: good friend Peggy Caffey. Claudine Burnett and Daniel Phillips say 417 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 1: Peggy's personality. She was much meeker than Clara's, and Peggy 418 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: was ripe for manipulation. 419 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 3: Peggy wanted to endear herself to Clara. She wanted to 420 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 3: be like Clara. She wanted to have a friend like Clara. 421 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,360 Speaker 2: Peggy's personality was completely different from the personality that Clara had. 422 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 7: What was Peggy's personality? 423 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 5: Submissive, not a leader, a follower. 424 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: On Wednesday morning, July twelfth, nineteen twenty two, Peggy and 425 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: Clara ate breakfast together and chatted about their visit to 426 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,159 Speaker 1: Alberta Meto's apartment. It was a failed trip, and a 427 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,240 Speaker 1: good night's sleep didn't seem to change Clara's dour mood. 428 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: If anything, she was even more determined to punish the 429 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,639 Speaker 1: person she blamed for all of this, and that person 430 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 1: was no longer her husband. Armor. 431 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 4: Clara burned herself to Peggy and she said, look, my 432 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 4: husband's being unfaithful. I can't stand as Maybe I should just, 433 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 4: you know, confront her. I don't know. Somehow she managed 434 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 4: to convince her, okay, and I'll go with you. Let 435 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 4: let's go to the bank downtown where she works. 436 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: But before that, Clara said she wanted a little drink 437 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 1: because she hadn't been able to find one the night before. 438 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: She and Peggy called almost every man they knew until 439 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: they finally were able to buy a pine of whiskey. 440 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,480 Speaker 1: Clara and Peggy took a few SIPs, but they certainly 441 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: weren't drunk. When they finished, Clara carefully tightened the top 442 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,560 Speaker 1: of the bottle and wrapped it in brown paper. Clara 443 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,959 Speaker 1: told Peggy that Alberta was working as a clerk at 444 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 1: the currency department in the First National Bank downtown, a 445 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: very stable and respectable job, especially for a young woman 446 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,200 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties. Clara wanted to confront Alberta before work. 447 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: She knew just where she parked her new Ford Coop car, 448 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: but when they arrived, the car was already there, so 449 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: they missed her. Alberta was inside the bank, and now 450 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,959 Speaker 1: Clara was irritated. She insisted to Peggy that they returned 451 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: later that afternoon. When Alberta was leaving work, Peggy asked, 452 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: what was Clara going to talk to Alberta about. How 453 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: was this going to go. Clara told Peggy that she 454 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: was certain now that Armor was cheating on her. Peggy replied, well, 455 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: I would ask Alberta before I would believe those neighbors. 456 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: Clara stared at Alberta's new car. She was upset because 457 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: Missus McElroy had told her that Armor had bought Alberta 458 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 1: new tires and a fancy steering wheel. Despite all of that, 459 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: Peggy still assumed that this would be a verbal confrontation. 460 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: She had almost forgotten about that heavy claw hammer. Clara 461 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,879 Speaker 1: had a premeditated, highly orchestrated plan. In fact, she had 462 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:42,160 Speaker 1: been planning all of this for the past five days. 463 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,480 Speaker 1: They returned to the bank downtown later that afternoon, around 464 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 1: three point thirty. They waited for quite a while, and 465 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: as they stood there, Peggy quietly asked Clara about her plan. 466 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: Clara said, we'll just go for a ride. I want 467 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: to talk to her. She could take me home and 468 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,719 Speaker 1: I can to her. Peggy felt a little bit more 469 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 1: at ease. Clara seemed composed and almost happy, and she 470 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: had taken a few quick swigs from her bottle of whiskey, 471 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: so she was also relaxed. Clara spotted Alberta across the 472 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: street and stopped her before she slid into her car. 473 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: Clara smiled and reminded Alberta that they knew each other 474 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: from several parties. Alberta seemed at ease as Clara said, Alberta, 475 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: I want you to meet Peggy. She shook Peggy's hand 476 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,439 Speaker 1: while Clara introduced them, but Alberta could sense that something 477 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,120 Speaker 1: was a bit off about Clara that day. 478 00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 3: Alberta decided that they were a little bit drunk. 479 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: But they really weren't. Clara had been careful about that. 480 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: She offered Alberta a drink from her whiskey bottle, but 481 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: Alberta refused and then Clara sweetly asked Alberta for a favor. 482 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 1: Could she please drive them up toward Mendocino drive to 483 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,920 Speaker 1: her sister's house. They needed to sleep off their drinks 484 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: from the afternoon. 485 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 3: Alberta, who was getting off of her job, decide, I 486 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 3: did okay, these two ladies are definitely in need of help. 487 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,239 Speaker 3: They're both sort of drunk. Let me go ahead and 488 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 3: take them to Clara's sisters and she can handle it. 489 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: They all smiled, and Alberta glanced at her new coop. 490 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 4: She was very, very proud of her new car and 491 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 4: any excuse to drive her car was just fine with Alberta, 492 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 4: so she said, sure, you know, get in, I'll take 493 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 4: you where you need to go. 494 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: Clara sat in the middle of the front seat, right 495 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: next to Alberta, while Peggy sat near the passenger door. 496 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: Clara called out directions to get them to her sister's home. 497 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: They drove down Broadway and then through a tunnel heading 498 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: toward the outskirts of Los Angeles. 499 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 2: And Alberta, I don't think had any sense that what 500 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 2: was happening. She didn't react as someone that was a homewrecker, 501 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: so she was very agreeable. To taking them on a 502 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 2: ride to the other side of town without asking a 503 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: whole lot of questions. 504 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: Clara asked Alberta low of questions about her new car. 505 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: Peggy sat next to her silently. Clara went on and 506 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: on about the car and how she loved one just 507 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: like it, although she said it was unlikely that her 508 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: husband would buy her one. And then Clara brought up 509 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: an odd subject. She asked Alberta where she lived. Of course, 510 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 1: Clara had been stalking her apartment the night before she 511 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 1: knew exactly where she lived, but Alberta confirmed the address 512 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: of the apartment building. Then she told Clara, I intend 513 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 1: to move out tomorrow. She was moving in with her 514 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: elderly grandmother to take care of her. Peggy watched Alberta. 515 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: She didn't seem nervous or guilt ridden, or even shy, 516 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: which seemed odd to Peggy if she were really sleeping 517 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 1: with this woman's husband. Alberta was at ease, though Peggy 518 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 1: was not. 519 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 2: I think Alberta, being totally unaware of what was going 520 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 2: to transpire, kept it real light and casual. Nothing in 521 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:59,080 Speaker 2: Clara's manner gave her any indication things were going to 522 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 2: go sideway. 523 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: In the nineteen twenties, there was an inherent trust between 524 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: most women, and society certainly has a hard time believing 525 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: that a woman could brutalize anyone, let alone another woman. 526 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,200 Speaker 1: It clearly never occurred to Alberta that Clara could be 527 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: violent or threatening. And she must not have noticed that 528 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: hammer beneath Clara's cloak, so she wasn't naive looking at Clara, 529 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: Phillips type, this is not someone you would suspect would 530 00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: spontaneously hit you. 531 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 2: She hadn't been around her to know that she had 532 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 2: that kind of psychopathic tendency, which told me if she had, 533 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: she would have steered clearer, because armor would have told her, Hey, 534 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 2: she's a little crazy, all right, So if you ever 535 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,240 Speaker 2: run into it, stay away. I just think that she 536 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 2: was the wrong person at the wrong time. 537 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: This is Montecito Drive in Los Angeles, where Clara's older 538 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: sister Ola May lived. It's a ninety paved road that 539 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: snakes around the exclusive neighborhood of Montecito Heights with its 540 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: luxury houses and beach views. This is what it sounds 541 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: like now, but in nineteen twenty two it sounded like 542 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: this as Alberta meadows Peggy Caffee and Clara Phillips drove 543 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: toward the top. In the nineteen twenties, Montecito Drive was isolated. 544 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,280 Speaker 1: Writer Joan Rinner says there were few houses and even 545 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: fewer cars traveling along the road, especially in the early 546 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: evenings after work hours. 547 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,200 Speaker 4: It's on a hill, windy, twisty road, and it wasn't 548 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 4: really well inhabited at the time. There was still a 549 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 4: lot of space between houses, and so they. 550 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 1: Go up there. Daniel Phillips says that his great aunt 551 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: knew exactly where to go. 552 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,400 Speaker 2: Clara definitely had a point in mind to take her 553 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: to a remote place, which, based on Montecito Drive, Monacito 554 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 2: Heights was a good place to take her. 555 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 5: And it was in the latter part of the evening. 556 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,080 Speaker 2: No one was around and the only witness was Peggy Caffy, 557 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: And I think even Peggy didn't realize what was going 558 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 2: to happen, even though she knew that there was a hammer. 559 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: Montecito Drive was the perfect spot for a brutal crime, 560 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:23,479 Speaker 1: and Clara knew it. Glenn Martin is the executive director 561 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: of the Los Angeles Police Memorial Foundation. He's closed countless 562 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,240 Speaker 1: murder cases in his career as an investigator. So this 563 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: is a good place to commit a murderer. 564 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 7: Oh yeah, A baron hillside, whether it's back in the 565 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,680 Speaker 7: nineteen twenties or today, is a good place to commit 566 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 7: a murder. There's no no real likelihood of witnesses, no 567 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 7: likelihood that somebody is going to hear or see something untoward. 568 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 7: It would have been a good place to kill somebody. 569 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:54,080 Speaker 1: Alberta gripped the wheel of her Ford touring car as 570 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: they climbed the winding dirt road. Whatever Clara was planning, 571 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: maybe she would change her mind. There was still time, 572 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:06,120 Speaker 1: Haggy thought. She sensed that Clara was softening. Clara asked Alberta, 573 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,720 Speaker 1: how long have you been? And then she quickly stopped, 574 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 1: as if she realized she had said the wrong thing. 575 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: Clara said, by the way, you have lost your husband, 576 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: haven't you. Alberta paused and teared up. Yes, he's been 577 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 1: dead for about seven months, and I sure feel bad 578 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 1: about it. Clara grew silent. Before they reached the top 579 00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: of the hill near her sister's house, Clara told Alberta, 580 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: I would like to speak with you about a few things. 581 00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 1: Something I have to tell you Alberta replied, okay. Clara 582 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: smiled and said stop here. 583 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 4: They get to a little turnout just off the road 584 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 4: just a little bit. They pull off, and Clara says 585 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 4: to Alberta, I want to have a private conversation. Can 586 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 4: you come with me for a few minutes. 587 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 3: Alberta helped Clara out of the car because she thought 588 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 3: Clara was inebriated. 589 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: But she wasn't. She was seething. 590 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 4: Peggy's still sitting in the car. I think she had 591 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 4: no idea what was going to happen next. 592 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: As Alberta slid out of the driver's seat, Clara told 593 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: her friend, will you pardon us, Peggy. Peggy nodded and 594 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: stayed inside the car, and Peggy watches the two women. 595 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: They seem to be having a conversation. Clara stepped closer 596 00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: to Alberta and her mood changed almost instantly. She said, Alberta, 597 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: now I want to know missus McElroy has told me 598 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: that you've been going with my husband and that my 599 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 1: husband has bought those big tires on your coup. Alberta 600 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: seemed stunned and then confused. She said, Missus Phillips, I 601 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: beg your pardon. I haven't had anything to do with 602 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 1: your husband, and he has never bought a thing for me. 603 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,719 Speaker 1: Alberta was insulted at the insinuation that she would sleep 604 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: with a married man, particularly less than a year after 605 00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: her own husband's horrible death, and besides, she didn't really 606 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: care for Armor Phillips. Alberta told people that he seemed 607 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 1: like an insincere louse. Peggy watched the conversation and grew tense. 608 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,960 Speaker 1: She slowly opened the door and stepped out, but stayed quiet. 609 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,919 Speaker 1: Clara was becoming more agitated. She yelled, he also bought 610 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,839 Speaker 1: you a watch. As she screamed, Clara held her right 611 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: hand behind her back underneath her cape. Peggy squinted to 612 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: see what it was. Alberta calmly replied, no, missus Phillips, 613 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: I have the bill of sale. I bought that myself. 614 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,600 Speaker 1: Clara yelled, he certainly did buy it. Alberta thought she 615 00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: could convince Clara of her innocence. There were suitcases in 616 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,600 Speaker 1: the trunk. Clara believed that Alberta was planning to Elope 617 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 1: with armor. Alberta had actually bought them to store clothes 618 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 1: in her new apartment. It was no use. Clara couldn't 619 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: be convinced Alberta was stealing her husband, her money, and 620 00:36:56,880 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: her life. 621 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 3: Alberta denied it. They started pushing and shoving, and Alberta 622 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,319 Speaker 3: tried to get away from Clara, who was getting to 623 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 3: be too physical. 624 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 4: From beneath the cape she was wearing, Clara produces the 625 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 4: hammer that she'd bought at that five and dime store. 626 00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 4: Peggy's a deer in the headlight. She didn't want to 627 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 4: get in the middle of anything, fearing the hammer was 628 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 4: going to come down on her. 629 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: On the next episode of tenfold War Wicked, she. 630 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,279 Speaker 4: Was just terrified. She didn't want to tell anyone anything. 631 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 2: Armor wasn't dumb. He was a good kind man. He 632 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,960 Speaker 2: knew this is not good. I've got to get her 633 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: out of here, okay, And he still had the loyalty 634 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 2: of a husband to do that. 635 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 5: What about Armor, Oh, he's pathetic. 636 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:53,360 Speaker 4: It's not a very nice thing to say, but there 637 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 4: was nothing very endearing about him that would make you 638 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 4: very close to him. It was just an appalling crime. 639 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 4: If you were a cop and you rolled up on 640 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,080 Speaker 4: the scene and you saw this, you would not for 641 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 4: a moment think that a woman could have committed this crime. 642 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: My new book All That Is Wicked is available for 643 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: pre order now in hardback and ebooks. More information on 644 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,279 Speaker 1: the audiobook later. All that Is Wicked is based on 645 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: our first season of tenfold More Wicked. You might think 646 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 1: you know the whole story of killer Edward Ruloff's crimes, 647 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,400 Speaker 1: but there's so much more. My book American Sherlock is 648 00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: also available. This has been an exactly right tenfold More 649 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: Media production producers Jason Whaling, Alexis Mrosi and Laura Sobole, 650 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: Sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork Nick Toga. 651 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,480 Speaker 1: Executive producers are Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Danielle Kramer. 652 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,760 Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold More Wicked 653 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 1: and on Twitter at tenfold More. And If you know 654 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 1: of a historical true crime that could use some attention, 655 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:04,359 Speaker 1: email us at info at Tenfolmarmedia dot com. Subscribe now 656 00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: on Amazon Music, Stitcher, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like 657 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 1: to listen.