Speaker 1: When we first released this episode on September eighth, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one, Anthony Simms had already spent twenty two years
Speaker 1: in prison and was hoping to bring some much needed
Speaker 1: attention to this horrendous injustice. At the time his passed,
Speaker 1: the freedom were uncertain. Since then, some monumental changes have occurred.
Speaker 1: For this updated episode, we spoke again with Anthony and
Speaker 1: his legal team. You'll hear this episode as it was
Speaker 1: originally released, but with brand new content to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off. On eighteenth, nineteen ninety eight, a
Speaker 1: woman named Rachel claims to have seen her neighbors Julius
Speaker 1: Graves and Charlie Winbush talking. Charleiku was telling her fiance
Speaker 1: Graves about how a man named Lee run Chen, who
Speaker 1: worked at the Chinese restaurant up the block, mister Hings,
Speaker 1: had touched her inappropriately. Graves replied that he would scare him.
Speaker 1: Later that day, Julius Graves, his fiance's cousin, and another
Speaker 1: younger friend had a few drinks with Graves's friend, Anthony
Speaker 1: Simms as they listened music by Anthony's car. As the
Speaker 1: evening wrapped up, Graves asked Anthony to drive him down
Speaker 1: the block to mister Hinks. Oblivious to any issue with Chen,
Speaker 1: Anthony agreed they went into the restaurant when it is
Speaker 1: believed that Graves shot and killed Lee run Chen. In shock,
Speaker 1: Anthony fled alone while Graves and the two younger guys
Speaker 1: returned to Graves's apartment, wiped the gun clean, figured out
Speaker 1: where to stash it, and began to conjure up a
Speaker 1: story to deflect blame from Graves and onto Anthony Simms.
Speaker 1: With Graves at a number of his friends and family
Speaker 1: supporting this phony narrative, investigators set their sights on Anthony.
Speaker 1: Only one witness came forward independently who was neither coerced
Speaker 1: nor friends and family of Julius Graves, Graves's neighbor Rachel,
Speaker 1: who was on the phone outside of mister Hinks during
Speaker 1: the shooting and saw Graves running from the restaurant with
Speaker 1: a soft off shotgun in his hand. Yet her statement
Speaker 1: was ignored by investigators and hidden from the defense, and
Speaker 1: as a result, Anthony Simms continues to serve twenty five
Speaker 1: years to life. This is wrongful conviction with Jason Flamm.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to wrongful Conviction with Jason Flamm. That's me,
Speaker 1: and today if you hear my voice sounds sort of down.
Speaker 1: I mean, this is one of the most troubling wrongful
Speaker 1: conviction cases that I've ever seen in twenty eight years
Speaker 1: of doing this work, which is almost as long as
Speaker 1: Anthony Simms has been locked up for a crime he
Speaker 1: obviously didn't commit. First of all, I want to introduce
Speaker 1: the two attorneys who are so devoted to this case
Speaker 1: and to this man, Jonathan Hiles and Thomas Hoffman. Thank
Speaker 1: you both for being here.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you for doing this Jason.
Speaker 1: And now of course saving the best for last. And
Speaker 1: I'm just so sorry that you're here under these circumstances,
Speaker 1: but I'm honestly honored that you're here with us today
Speaker 1: on the podcast. So Anthony Simms, welcome to Rafel Conviction.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: And Anthony, of course, is now a forty five year
Speaker 1: old man, twenty four years into a twenty five to
Speaker 1: life sentence for a murder he didn't commit. Now, this
Speaker 1: began back in nineteen ninety eight, but I want to
Speaker 1: go back even further than that. Anthony, where did you
Speaker 1: grow up and what was your childhood like? Was it
Speaker 1: a happy childhood?
Speaker 3: Yes, I grew up in Brooklyn, York, and I grow
Speaker 3: of a mother, father and my two older brothers, and
Speaker 3: we had was a very happy, loving family. We would
Speaker 3: do a lot of fun activities together, go on vacations.
Speaker 3: I remember every Sunday was family day.
Speaker 1: And leading up to when this awful crime occurred, you
Speaker 1: had kids of Beyonce at that time. What was life
Speaker 1: like for you?
Speaker 3: I live what I thought was a normal life. I
Speaker 3: worked for Bell Atlantic Telephone company. You know, he stole
Speaker 3: a phone lines and provided doubts on the customers. I
Speaker 3: live with my fiance Keisha and my two sons at
Speaker 3: the town.
Speaker 1: So this brings us to May eighteenth, nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: when you, Anthony, witnessed a terrible crime. There was a
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant, Mister Hings, which was down the block from
Speaker 1: where your former friend Julius Grace lived, and around ten
Speaker 1: o'clock that night, a man named Lee Runschen, who worked
Speaker 1: at Mister Hings, was shot and killed. But earlier that day,
Speaker 1: before any of that happened, you thought you were just
Speaker 1: going to swing by Graves's apartment to show him this
Speaker 1: new car you bought your fiance Keisha.
Speaker 3: Julius Graves was at that time my best friend. I
Speaker 3: wanted to show him the car, and I bought my
Speaker 3: wife this a process, So I drove to his house
Speaker 3: at that town. He asked me to drive him to
Speaker 3: the liquor store. I went to the regular store and
Speaker 3: bought some beer. We was talking. I was letting the
Speaker 3: music play from my car radio, and then his two
Speaker 3: friends came over, his fiance's cousin Derek and then later
Speaker 3: on his friend Louis, and they was listening to music
Speaker 3: with us. And I want to say, like around ten o'clock,
Speaker 3: it was getting late. I wanted to go home show
Speaker 3: my wife the cause, and I wanted to be home
Speaker 3: with my sons. So Julius asked me to drive him
Speaker 3: to them Chinese restaurant. So I thought this is a
Speaker 3: weird request because he lived down around a corner from
Speaker 3: the restaurant, and I thought he could have just walked.
Speaker 3: So I said, I listen, I was drinking a couple
Speaker 3: of beers. Let me go to the thought about some
Speaker 3: breast minds, because I don't like driving around like that.
Speaker 3: I remember Julius saying, listen, and I'm going to the house.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna go check with Charlie, which is his girlfriend
Speaker 3: at the time, to see if she wanted anything from
Speaker 3: the store as well. So I said, all right, so
Speaker 3: I can only assun him. That's the time that he
Speaker 3: got the weapon. And when I got back to my car,
Speaker 3: Julius was sitting in my passenger seat and his two
Speaker 3: little friends were sitting in the back. They know that
Speaker 3: I didn't expect him to be in a car because
Speaker 3: they looked at me with this look like, all right, well,
Speaker 3: we're just going to go to this restaurant with you.
Speaker 3: So I didn't think nothing. I very I got in
Speaker 3: the car and I drove him to them Chinese restaurant.
Speaker 3: When I got it out of the restaurant, I started
Speaker 3: looking around for the menus and stuff to see what
Speaker 3: I was going to purchase for my wife. The next
Speaker 3: thing I know, I saw Julius come in the store
Speaker 3: with like a weird expression on his face, and almost
Speaker 3: immediately he resent his fans and pulled out a soda
Speaker 3: sode gun, and I remember thinking like, what the hell
Speaker 3: was going on and where did he even get that
Speaker 3: gun from? I asked, I said, what the hell are
Speaker 3: you doing? Are you crazy? Julius said, he said no,
Speaker 3: approached the counter, pointed the gun out one of the
Speaker 3: workers and pulled the trigger and I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3: I fell to blood rush for my body and all
Speaker 3: I remember at that time just running out the store,
Speaker 3: getting in my car. Julius jumped in there too, and
Speaker 3: I said get out. I kicked everybody. I said, everybody,
Speaker 3: get out of my car, and I Joe Hooman told
Speaker 3: Keisha what happened. That was the worst night of my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it would be the worst night of almost anyone's
Speaker 1: life to witness something like that.
Speaker 3: I got home, I got on the phone and I
Speaker 3: called them and I, so, what the hell is wrong
Speaker 3: with you? Probably curts him. I said some other things following, Basically,
Speaker 3: I want to know why did he put me in
Speaker 3: that situation? Why did he allow me to walk into that?
Speaker 3: Why didn't he come in? What was going on? Maybe
Speaker 3: he thought I would talk him out of it. I
Speaker 3: don't know, but he just kept apologizing and definitely told
Speaker 3: me that you know the person that he found out.
Speaker 3: I can't believe it. And I said, Julius, don't ever
Speaker 3: call me again. I don't want to hear from you
Speaker 3: no more. I just wanted to try to separate my
Speaker 3: cell phone.
Speaker 4: So it turns out that Julius Graves had a motive,
Speaker 4: and that is that Graves was upset that mister Chen,
Speaker 4: who worked at the Chinese restaurant, had reportedly touched the
Speaker 4: hand of Graves's Beyonce Sharlee earlier in the day of
Speaker 4: the murder, that he had touched her hand inappropriately. She
Speaker 4: was upset about this, she told Graves, and Graves said
Speaker 4: that he would go to the restaurant and scare the victim.
Speaker 4: We know he did a lot more than that, but
Speaker 4: that appears to have been the motive that we didn't
Speaker 4: find out until many years later. Now, what was known
Speaker 4: at the time is that after the murder, after Anthony
Speaker 4: got Graves and his two friends, Derek Dollop and Louis Cologne,
Speaker 4: to leave the car, it is undisputed that Graves took
Speaker 4: the shotgun used in the murder, went back to the
Speaker 4: apartment where he was staying, feverishly wiped off the shotgun
Speaker 4: to get his fingerprints off of it, and then gave
Speaker 4: the gun to his friend Louis Cologne to hide from police.
Speaker 4: And Louis, by the way, was only fourteen years old
Speaker 4: at the time. Graves's excuse for doing this is that
Speaker 4: he wasn't thinking. That was his only justification.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: Furthermore, this murder weapon, the sawed off shotgun, had previously
Speaker 4: been kept in a lock box in the apartment where
Speaker 4: Graves was staying, and Graves and his friend Derek Dollop,
Speaker 4: who was also his fiance's cousin, admitted even that they
Speaker 4: knew the shotgun was kept there and had seen it
Speaker 4: there before. So all the evidence suggested that the shotgun
Speaker 4: belonged to Graves, and it is undisputed he had handled
Speaker 4: it right after the murder.
Speaker 1: Occurred, right and the physical evidence from the scene later
Speaker 1: proved that this sought off shotgun from Graves' apartment was
Speaker 1: used in the murder. So this is where we start
Speaker 1: seeing a narrative being formed from the Graves camp to
Speaker 1: try to deflect responsibility for this murder away from Graves
Speaker 1: and toward Anthony. And initially it will seem like a
Speaker 1: lot of witnesses came forward to support what was really
Speaker 1: just coming straight from Graves's imagination and what later became
Speaker 1: the prosecution's narrative. But it will become clear as we
Speaker 1: move along here that none of these witnesses were to
Speaker 1: be believed, they should have been believed for two reasons. One,
Speaker 1: it's discovered later that these eyewitness accounts are initially riddled
Speaker 1: with glaring inconsistencies and contradictions that were then changed to
Speaker 1: fit a cohesive narrative in time for trial, which is,
Speaker 1: it's just not typical what a group of people are
Speaker 1: telling the truths obviously right. And two, most of the
Speaker 1: witnesses are friends and family of Graves. There are only
Speaker 1: two witnesses, two who are not Graves's friends or family,
Speaker 1: one of whom was coerced by police into an ambiguous
Speaker 1: statement that nonetheless helped the prosecution's case at the time
Speaker 1: of trial, and the other is the only independent witness
Speaker 1: who bravely came forward to tell the truth about Graves's
Speaker 1: motive and having seen him running from the restaurant with
Speaker 1: a gun. However, none of this info about these two
Speaker 1: witnesses was known to the defensive trial, but we'll get
Speaker 1: to that later. Now. Right now, let's focus on the
Speaker 1: dubious narrative coming from the Graves camp. So, the day
Speaker 1: after the murder, Sharleek's brother, William Robertson told police a
Speaker 1: second hand story from Sharleek that Sharleek had said that
Speaker 1: Anthony had come by earlier the day of the murder
Speaker 1: and taken the shotgun out of the apartment. Then comes
Speaker 1: the narrative from Graves about the night of the murder. Okay, ready, so,
Speaker 1: according to Graves, Anthony dropped by the apartment around six
Speaker 1: pm and they had a few drinks. Anthony allegedly showed
Speaker 1: Graves a shotgun that he had in his trunk, a
Speaker 1: shotgun that Graves should have recognized as the one from
Speaker 1: his apartment. Now, at some point, Anthony and Graves are
Speaker 1: joined by Sharleik's cousin, Derek Dallup and another younger friend,
Speaker 1: Luis Cologne. According to Graves, Anthony had a previous altercation
Speaker 1: with the victim, Lee run Chen, who worked at the
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant down the block, Mister Hings. The reason behind
Speaker 1: this disagreement and the timing changed between initial interviews and trial.
Speaker 1: In this farcical version of events, Anthony allegedly had refused
Speaker 1: to pay for something at Mister Hings because it was
Speaker 1: either something he hadn't ordered, or some chicken was undercooked,
Speaker 1: or it didn't look right, you know, lying is tricky
Speaker 1: that way, right, It gets hard to keep track of
Speaker 1: your own bullshit anyway. At the time of this alleged
Speaker 1: problem and refusal of payment, Lee run Chen allegedly pulled
Speaker 1: a gun on Anthony, to which Anthony allegedly responded that
Speaker 1: he would get Chen for this. According to Graves, that night,
Speaker 1: in the lead up to the murder, Anthony brought up
Speaker 1: this two to three week old and then later four
Speaker 1: to five month old beef several times and was getting
Speaker 1: heated up about it before they headed to mister Hings,
Speaker 1: where Anthony was the one who allegedly shot Lee run Chen,
Speaker 1: not Graves, whose fiance had complained to him about Chen's
Speaker 1: inappropriate touching earlier that day. So this just super believable
Speaker 1: narrative is what became the prosecution's theory.
Speaker 3: It just feels liberated to hear you retell that story
Speaker 3: because it sounded crazy to me, and from you saying
Speaker 3: how crazy it sounds to you, that means a lot.
Speaker 3: Because I've always believed down the line that the truth
Speaker 3: was going to come out. I didn't know that it
Speaker 3: would be in prison twenty three years before this truth
Speaker 3: came out, and it's.
Speaker 1: Going to be out there now finally for everyone to
Speaker 1: hear it, and Jonathan, there's even more to know about
Speaker 1: Graves's ridiculous narrative.
Speaker 4: The story against Anthony was not only ridiculous, but as
Speaker 4: he alluded to, it was so inconsistent. Graves first actually
Speaker 4: told police Anthony and Graves's other two friends had gone
Speaker 4: to the Chinese restaurant earlier on that evening and then
Speaker 4: come back and Anthony was heated about an argument with
Speaker 4: the victim. But Graves's two friends never said they went
Speaker 4: to the Chinese restaurant. It was just made up. So
Speaker 4: Graves had to change his story and say that he
Speaker 4: had witnessed an argument between Anthony and the victim months
Speaker 4: earlier over a food order, and that Anthony was still
Speaker 4: fuming about this months later on the night of the murder.
Speaker 4: Again Graves's friends right who were trying to back him up.
Speaker 4: They never said that Anthony had any beef with a
Speaker 4: victim or was fuming about it in the car that evening,
Speaker 4: So the story never really made sense. But what was
Speaker 4: important to police and prosecutors, unfortunately, was clear the case.
Speaker 4: And once they had Graves and his two friends who
Speaker 4: were willing to point the finger at Anthony as a
Speaker 4: scapegoat the train had left the station.
Speaker 1: Okay, so they've got their site set on you, Anthony.
Speaker 1: Initially they show up at your job, but you were
Speaker 1: out that day. This tipped you off though that they
Speaker 1: were at least looking to talk to you, and eventually
Speaker 1: you went involuntarily. I mean, you were an innocent man.
Speaker 1: So did you think, well, I'll just go in there,
Speaker 1: clear this up and head on home.
Speaker 3: I did, And a big key as being left out
Speaker 3: was there was a camera inside of that restaurant. So
Speaker 3: I thought, regardless that somebody would at one point in
Speaker 3: time review the tape and that I had nothing to
Speaker 3: worry about. The tape would clear everything up for me.
Speaker 3: So yes, drove of myself to the precinct, and that's
Speaker 3: why I been ever since talked away.
Speaker 1: You never walked out of there again, never walked out.
Speaker 1: Now what happened with the videotape from the Chinese restaurant?
Speaker 3: They said that the tape wasn't recalling.
Speaker 1: Do you believe that?
Speaker 3: To be honest, I don't know what to believe anymore.
Speaker 3: I used to have a lot of faith in the
Speaker 3: conditional system, but from being a crossert to myself and
Speaker 3: listening to some of the other harves stories from people
Speaker 3: in here with me, I don't know what to believe.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 4: They had their man, and any other evidence that existed
Speaker 4: then were emerged later that suggested Anthony was innocent or
Speaker 4: that Grace was guilty was just an inconvenience to the
Speaker 4: prosecution's case, and so it was not disclosed to the defense.
Speaker 1: And of course listeners of this show will know that
Speaker 1: when the authorities withhold exculpatory evidence, it's called a Brady violation.
Speaker 1: Brady violations are illegal, but as our listeners also know,
Speaker 1: Brady violations rarely seem to be any actual ramifications for
Speaker 1: the people who commit them. So it just keeps fucking
Speaker 1: happening in case after case. And in this case, I
Speaker 1: believe the worst Brady violation, the worst one among so many,
Speaker 1: is the sole independent witness who came forward in this
Speaker 1: case that I alluded to earlier, whose statement was hidden
Speaker 1: from the defense. Will refer to her only as Rachel.
Speaker 4: So Rachel was right outside the Chinese restaurant where the
Speaker 4: murder occurred, talking on a payphone. This was an undisputed fact,
Speaker 4: and police spoke to her and initially she said that
Speaker 4: she had heard the shot and seen people running from
Speaker 4: the Chinese restaurant, but she didn't have her contacts in
Speaker 4: and so she couldn't identify who those people were. That
Speaker 4: was what she said. Now, this was not a neighborhood
Speaker 4: where it was easy to report to police who you
Speaker 4: had seen involved in a murder, much less if that
Speaker 4: person was your neighbor. And actually Rachel, who was seventeen
Speaker 4: at the time, she neighbors with Julius Graves. Now, a
Speaker 4: couple of weeks went by and Rachel had kept this
Speaker 4: information to herself, but her conscience was gnawing away at her.
Speaker 4: She learned that Anthony had been wrongfully arrested for the crime,
Speaker 4: and she actually received a call from Anthony's wife at
Speaker 4: the time, Keisha, who said to Rachel, I hear you
Speaker 4: were present at the scene and that you may have
Speaker 4: seen something. Please just talk to police, tell them what
Speaker 4: you saw, whatever you saw, Please just tell them the truth. Now,
Speaker 4: at around the same time, Rachel actually had an exchange
Speaker 4: with Graves and his fiance outside of their brownstone. During
Speaker 4: that exchange, Rachel said, I know what you did. I
Speaker 4: saw what you did. In truth, she had seen Julius
Speaker 4: Graves running from the Chinese restaurant with a shotgun right
Speaker 4: after the shot was fired, and she said, I know
Speaker 4: what you did, and you're trying to put it on
Speaker 4: somebody else us and Graves said, you talk too much
Speaker 4: and if you keep talking, I'm going to shut you up.
Speaker 4: And so she called police spoke to a detective and
Speaker 4: she said, I saw Julius Graves running from the Chinese
Speaker 4: restaurant with a big, long gun. I know it was him.
Speaker 4: He's my neighbor. And the detective said, we already have
Speaker 4: another guy. It was the taller guy. Anthony is six',
Speaker 4: Three graves is five to. Nine rachel, said, NO i,
Speaker 4: know they look completely. DIFFERENT i know that it Was
Speaker 4: graves who was running with a. Shotgun and the detective basically, said,
Speaker 4: well thank you for your time and hung up the.
Speaker 2: Phone Shaw leek had anticipated That rachel could go to the,
Speaker 2: police so ShW leek reports that as. Harassment they had that.
Speaker 2: Report but IF i can complete that, incredibly even Though
Speaker 2: rachel lived next door To, sharlie they did not Question
Speaker 2: rachel at all about that police.
Speaker 1: Report they didn't have to go across the country to
Speaker 1: interview somebody or across the, state right they'd go across the.
Speaker 1: Street across the. Street somebody who actually had begged to be,
Speaker 1: interviewed even though she had been threatened by a really dangerous,
Speaker 1: guy was, like, No i'm going to do the right.
Speaker 1: Thing but instead she just got shut down by those
Speaker 1: who are supposed to protect, us which Left graves out
Speaker 1: on the streets to potentially commit more violent, crimes While
Speaker 1: anthony was stripped of his freedom and civil. Rights so
Speaker 1: back to this. Investigation if you want to call it,
Speaker 1: that the grandmother Of graves's, children you, know Char leak's,
Speaker 1: mom signs on to parrot some of the. Narrative this
Speaker 1: Is Dorothy, bolding whose story changed from her initial interview
Speaker 1: when she didn't Mention Anthony graves or even having been
Speaker 1: at Mister hings at. All this. Interview critical information here
Speaker 1: was hidden from the, defense and by the time the
Speaker 1: grand jury and the trial roll, around she's changed her,
Speaker 1: story now claiming to be able to Implicate anthony in the.
Speaker 1: Murder but still the investigators needed to get someone outside
Speaker 1: Of graves's inner circle in order to strengthen the. Case
Speaker 1: and AS i alluded to, earlier this is the only
Speaker 1: other witness Besides rachel who was not directly related To.
Speaker 1: Graves she was a single mom who certainly appears to
Speaker 1: have been coerced into giving an ambiguous statement that helped
Speaker 1: the prosecution's case a, trial and will refer to this
Speaker 1: witness As, shalima.
Speaker 4: Now shalima as we have since. Learned she initially told
Speaker 4: police that, she when visiting her friend's apartment across the
Speaker 4: street from the, murder had heard this loud, bang had
Speaker 4: looked out the window from a second floor on a
Speaker 4: dark night and had seen a couple of men ran
Speaker 4: out of The chinese, restaurant but she couldn't describe them at.
Speaker 4: All she'd seemed that one of them appeared to be
Speaker 4: holding a long, done but she couldn't make any sort of,
Speaker 4: description and they, said, well let's take you in and
Speaker 4: see if we can refresh your. Memory they took her,
Speaker 4: in they separated her from her young, child and they
Speaker 4: interrogated her for hours and wouldn't tell her where her child,
Speaker 4: was which she kept, asking and then eventually they emerged
Speaker 4: with a report saying that she identified the taller man
Speaker 4: as being the one holding the, gun which was something
Speaker 4: that was clearly fed to her because she told police
Speaker 4: that she couldn't describe the men she had, seen including
Speaker 4: the person who was running with the. Gun we first
Speaker 4: learned that in the past. Year shalima, SAID i don't
Speaker 4: know HOW i could have testified THAT i saw the
Speaker 4: taller man running with the. SHOTGUN i couldn't have made a,
Speaker 4: description and that's WHAT i told, Detectives and their response
Speaker 4: was to take me in for basically a full day of,
Speaker 4: interrogation separated from my, child until they had pressured her
Speaker 4: to give them what they.
Speaker 1: Wanted, Right, so now they finally had someone as this
Speaker 1: idea was to corroborate what The graves camp was. Saying
Speaker 1: So july, second nineteen ninety, eight they charged, You, anthony
Speaker 1: with two counts of murder in the second degree intentional
Speaker 1: and depraved, indifference and one count of criminal possession of
Speaker 1: a weapon in the fourth, degree a weapon that you
Speaker 1: had never even held in your, Hand and before trial
Speaker 1: even began In april nineteen ninety, Nine graves attempted to.
Speaker 4: Disappear graves didn't want to. Testify he wanted to get
Speaker 4: himself off of the, hook but even he perhaps had
Speaker 4: some pangs of conscience about falsely implicating someone who had
Speaker 4: formerly been his, friend and so he went underground before
Speaker 4: the trials, started and he was on probation at the,
Speaker 4: time actually on a weapons possession, charge and he hadn't
Speaker 4: been reporting to his probation officer for three, years and
Speaker 4: so The District attorney's office actually initiated proceedings to Revoke graves's.
Speaker 4: Probation he would be remanded to prison.
Speaker 1: Potentially this one's really. MYSTIFYING i, mean do you have
Speaker 1: a guy who has a propensity to, violence who knows
Speaker 1: his way around with, weapons who was a possession of the,
Speaker 1: gun who had a previous weapons, violation and it's, like,
Speaker 1: yeah now we're just gonna ignore.
Speaker 2: That julius was asked, directly have you reported to your
Speaker 2: probation officer often and? Regularly he answered, yes when he
Speaker 2: hadn't reported for three, years and that why was not.
Speaker 2: Corrected and clearly the credibility Of graves was. Critical we
Speaker 2: did not know that he had not reported till last.
Speaker 1: Year so at, trial the state Presented shalima along With
Speaker 1: graves's cadre of liars Right graves, himself of, course and
Speaker 1: is fiance's Cousin Derek, dallap his Friend Luis, cologne and
Speaker 1: the grandmother Of graves' two, Children Dorothy. Bolding Now bolding's
Speaker 1: story changed. Twice in her initial, interview she didn't mention Seeing,
Speaker 1: Graves anthony or even having been At Mister. Hings and
Speaker 1: then at the grand jury she testified that while drinking
Speaker 1: outside Of Mister hings she Saw anthony enter with a
Speaker 1: long gun and heard a shot fired Before graves entered the.
Speaker 1: Restaurant then at, TRIAL i don't, know maybe she had
Speaker 1: some pangs of conscience either, way, though she testified that
Speaker 1: she Saw anthony go, in followed By, graves then heard
Speaker 1: a gunshot but never saw a.
Speaker 4: Gun Miss bolding for initial report would have really discredited
Speaker 4: her as a prosecution witness was not. Disclosed also not
Speaker 4: disclosed or bias given her relation To Julius.
Speaker 1: Graves, okay so now There's. Shalima she also testified against, You.
Speaker 1: Anthony she said that on the night of the, shooting
Speaker 1: she was visiting a friend who lived on the second
Speaker 1: floor in an apartment across the street From Mister. Hings
Speaker 1: she said that she heard a gunshot and looked out
Speaker 1: the window to see two black men running from the,
Speaker 1: restaurant and that quote the tall guy had.
Speaker 4: A Gun this was helpful for the prosecution Because anthony
Speaker 4: was taller Than. Graves, now the prosecutor tried to get
Speaker 4: her to Identify. Anthony you, know look around the. Courtroom
Speaker 4: is the person you saw running with the gun? Here she,
Speaker 4: SAID i don't, KNOW i can't. Say and also she
Speaker 4: testified that of the two men she saw, running it
Speaker 4: was the person who was running, second who was behind
Speaker 4: who was running with the. Shotgun graves testified that he
Speaker 4: was running, second that he was Behind. Anthony so actually
Speaker 4: her testimony was very, ambiguous but it was really the
Speaker 4: only thing the prosecution had that came outside Of graves's inner.
Speaker 4: Circle and as a, result the failure to disclose What
Speaker 4: shalima had had told detectives from the beginning that she
Speaker 4: couldn't describe anything was a very Damaging brady violation For anthony's.
Speaker 1: Defense was there any real defense mounted in your, Case? Anthony, no.
Speaker 3: We didn't even call any witnesses them on, behalf ALTHOUGH
Speaker 3: i asked my, lawyer cannot testify and he said. No
Speaker 3: he was really confident that there was no need for
Speaker 3: them because the case was a weak case and they'll
Speaker 3: eventually be able to, say you, Know julia did or,
Speaker 3: whatever and that was. That SO i didn't really have a.
Speaker 1: Defense so after hearing From graves's network of liars And
Speaker 1: shalema's ambiguous, testimony and then importantly the absence Of, rachel
Speaker 1: did you still hold out any hope at all that
Speaker 1: you'd be?
Speaker 3: VINDICATED i did only because it was a time during
Speaker 3: the deliberations or the jury came back into the courtroom
Speaker 3: and they passed to note the sitting were, deadlocked and
Speaker 3: the jet, said, well, Listen i'm going to give you
Speaker 3: a brief allent. Charge he was basically, SAYING i don't
Speaker 3: know what the problem. Is it's not like he's facing
Speaker 3: the death on.
Speaker 1: It go give me a.
Speaker 3: Verdict and they needed some, rebacks some questions and. STUFF
Speaker 3: i was still, hopeful although hopeless slipping away.
Speaker 1: At that, point but they came back and found you.
Speaker 1: Guilty what was that moment was that if you can
Speaker 1: just take us inside that courtroom and inside your mind
Speaker 1: and your. Soul at that, MOMENT.
Speaker 3: I was, shocked, CONFUSED i was, hurt, devastated. GNOSIS i,
Speaker 3: MEAN i was. ANGRY i remember trying to stand, up
Speaker 3: BUT i didn't have any feeling in my laity because
Speaker 3: it's so. Weak, ironically what was going through my mind
Speaker 3: at that point was my son's because they were so,
Speaker 3: young and every NIGHT i would tell them crazy bedtime,
Speaker 3: stories either one THAT i read from a book OR
Speaker 3: i used to make up some. Stories and he looked
Speaker 3: forward to going to sleep just about could come in
Speaker 3: the room and telling them. Stories AND i said to,
Speaker 3: Myself i'm not going to be able to do that
Speaker 3: for a. While as you can, imagine for the first
Speaker 3: couple of, YEARS i was very. BETTER i WAS i was,
Speaker 3: MAD i was, angry AND i was almost like a
Speaker 3: walking dommie so to. SPEAK i, MEAN i was always
Speaker 3: trying to do programs and stuff and trying to help
Speaker 3: myself and help other people as, well but INSIDE i
Speaker 3: was really messed. Up AND i remember going on the
Speaker 3: visit one day and my, son Little Anthony, junior WHICH
Speaker 3: i loved to do all of both my, sons he was.
Speaker 3: Crying he just broke out one day crying on a
Speaker 3: visit and he, Said, daddy don't, Worry i'm Gonna i'm
Speaker 3: gonna Get julius doing this to, you because he had
Speaker 3: known at that Point julius as his uncle because we
Speaker 3: were so. Close AND i looked at him AND i, said, No,
Speaker 3: anthony don't ever say that. AGAIN i, SAID i don't
Speaker 3: ever say. That, No AND i was very let them
Speaker 3: know that the law will mentally prevail and there to
Speaker 3: work it self, out and in them saying. Tis he
Speaker 3: looked at me and he, says lord and, dad and
Speaker 3: you got to promise me that you would never do
Speaker 3: anything to him Linger AND i, SAID i. WON'T i
Speaker 3: promise you. That and it was that point THAT i
Speaker 3: forgave you is AND i continue to live my life
Speaker 3: as a life give for, them but also trying to
Speaker 3: help any and everybody out because in a sense helping
Speaker 3: me as. Well but that was my turning. Point that's
Speaker 3: WHEN i forgave him for doing what he.
Speaker 1: Did, wow sounds like you did a hell of a,
Speaker 1: job even in the brief time you had with your,
Speaker 1: sons raising them and teaching them.
Speaker 3: Right, unfortunately prison has a way to divine, families as
Speaker 3: you can only. Imagine so my son's, mother which is
Speaker 3: my wife at the, town her name is Also, keisher
Speaker 3: this prison vi became too much for us and it
Speaker 3: felt LIKE i was holding her back from living her.
Speaker 3: Life so we both came to the agreement that we
Speaker 3: should just Divorce sympara so that she can live the
Speaker 3: life of the. Speak And god always has a way
Speaker 3: of making things. Happen but my wife, today which is
Speaker 3: also Named, keisha it is my junior high school. Girlfriend
Speaker 3: she was my cheerleader WHEN i was the captain of
Speaker 3: the basketball. Team So jesus started to write me and
Speaker 3: one thing turned into. Another all of the old feelings came,
Speaker 3: back and we decided to try one more time to get.
Speaker 3: Married and that was prond of the best decision of my.
Speaker 5: Life my name Is Keisha simms AND i Am Anthony simmons's,
Speaker 5: wife and it is it's the best decision that we've
Speaker 5: ever made THAT i have ever. Made anthony AND i,
Speaker 5: were you, know junior high school. Sweethearts you, know people
Speaker 5: in the situation always think that the people in, prison you,
Speaker 5: know they should be grateful that someone makes a type
Speaker 5: of commitment to them under these. Circumstances but for, Me
Speaker 5: anthony has brought just so much to my. Life he
Speaker 5: hasn't riched my life so. Much i've grown so much
Speaker 5: as a person because of. Him this situation in particular
Speaker 5: has made me, stronger and So i'm just grateful that
Speaker 5: he chose me to go on this journey with him
Speaker 5: and to fight for his.
Speaker 3: Innocence one, DAY i was reading the newspaper from a
Speaker 3: friend of mine Named Kevin. Jenkins he asked me to
Speaker 3: read this article because the articles involved the person that
Speaker 3: we both knew From greenhavins And Manuel. Cooper devin suggested
Speaker 3: THAT i try to get in touch With Tom, hoffman
Speaker 3: the lawyer that got this guy. Out SO i talked
Speaker 3: to my wife and she said that night it was
Speaker 3: all for her to sleep because she worked around a
Speaker 3: lot of. Lawyers she knew that she only had one
Speaker 3: shot at this and she was making with a bullet.
Speaker 3: Points she was rehearsing what she would saying because she
Speaker 3: knew that it was really important to Obtain Thomas. Hoffman she,
Speaker 3: said the first Thing tom wanted to knows wasn't, anything
Speaker 3: because he would not represent anybody who was not. Innocent
Speaker 3: And keisha, told, yes he, is But i'm going to
Speaker 3: send you some information so that you can see it for.
Speaker 5: Yourself at that, POINT i had all Of anthony's legal
Speaker 5: work because his son had kept all of his, documentation
Speaker 5: and he, said, well send me everything that you. Have
Speaker 5: So i'm working from. Home ALL i have is An
Speaker 5: adobe scanned app on my phone which can only scan
Speaker 5: one page at a. Time one Of anthony's transcripts is
Speaker 5: four hundred and some are. Pages that's just only one.
Speaker 5: Transcript AND i did that for, days you, know trying
Speaker 5: to get all the information to, him and he saw
Speaker 5: all of the, discrepancies you, know and all the violations
Speaker 5: and things that we had always. Seen tom knew That
Speaker 5: anthony was, innocent and it was just astounding evidence to support.
Speaker 3: That in The rest Is, HISTORY i Got Tom hoffin
Speaker 3: And hanton have page for.
Speaker 1: Bono it's an amazing, STORY i, mean a tale of
Speaker 1: two keishas which eventually resulted in these two, attorneys which
Speaker 1: of course brings us to the post. Conviction and it
Speaker 1: looks like before you both got, involved there were some
Speaker 1: filings surrounding an inappropriate remark by the, prosecutor ineffective assistant,
Speaker 1: claims trial court, errors discriminatory jury, challenges all of which
Speaker 1: were serious points but ultimately. Failed there was some new,
Speaker 1: evidence a recantation of trial testimony From. Graves we know
Speaker 1: he was feeling remorseful for Throwing anthony under the, bus
Speaker 1: but he didn't want to come. Clean so THIS Affi
Speaker 1: david really is reflective of, that meaning he doesn't tell
Speaker 1: the whole. Truths he basically says That anthony went inside
Speaker 1: Mister hings and, He Julius, graves did. Not he continued
Speaker 1: that he didn't see who Shot chen and was coerced
Speaker 1: to testify that he had Seen anthony do. It so
Speaker 1: it takes the onus off Of, anthony but it's definitely
Speaker 1: not the exonerating evidence that one would hope, for as
Speaker 1: were the other filings in this.
Speaker 4: Case everything that sort of happened in those initial post
Speaker 4: trial proceeds was sort of skirmishes around secondary, issues which
Speaker 4: unfortunately is often the best you can do for a
Speaker 4: convicted person until you get A Tom hoffman to fully
Speaker 4: reinvestigate the case like a.
Speaker 1: Detective right Without, tom we wouldn't know the context Around shalima's,
Speaker 1: testimony which is what passed for a corroborating witness For
Speaker 1: graves and his whole network of, liars and then the
Speaker 1: Major brady violation in Hiding rachel for all of these. Years,
Speaker 1: remember she Witnessed charlik And graves talking about the inappropriate,
Speaker 1: touching which established the. Motive she Saw graves running from
Speaker 1: Mister hings with a. Gun then when she Confronted charleick And,
Speaker 1: graves she was, threatened you talk too. Much you keep,
Speaker 1: Talking i'm gonna shut you, up was the. Quote not
Speaker 1: to even mention all of the previously unknown or ignored
Speaker 1: holes and shifts And graves's. Narrative and, finally we haven't
Speaker 1: even talked about this, yet but there was a cook
Speaker 1: at Mister hings who had a view of the shooter
Speaker 1: and described his complexion as quote not. Black this is
Speaker 1: consistent With graves's light brown, skin While anthony importantly has
Speaker 1: a dark. Complexion, So, tom what is being done with
Speaker 1: all of these sculpatory evidence that you've?
Speaker 2: Compiled the year four point forty was initially filed In,
Speaker 2: december and we Attach rachel's Affidavit shulima's. Statement we also
Speaker 2: found this documentation That graves had lied about reporting to
Speaker 2: his probation officer often and. Regularly we also found Additional brady,
Speaker 2: violations and as the case was, preceding we then get
Speaker 2: even more documents FROM, foil including That graves on the
Speaker 2: day of his, testimony received, money received housing together with his,
Speaker 2: girlfriend his girlfriend's, brother and the brother's. Girlfriend and then
Speaker 2: he eventually gets twenty five thousand dollars in. Benefits all
Speaker 2: this comes, out so we then amend. Ourition we also
Speaker 2: found out That cologne had told one of his friends
Speaker 2: that it was his friend who committed the. Shooting, well
Speaker 2: his friend Was Julius. Graves that was only recently, ascertained
Speaker 2: as with, others AND i should, say look the current
Speaker 2: four forty eightyas in their, response they did not address
Speaker 2: any of our. Allegations Did Julius graves lie or did
Speaker 2: he not? Lie not? Addressed they, said you could have a. Hearing,
Speaker 2: well the hearing's gonna take quite a, while And anthony
Speaker 2: should be home. Now the evidence is. Overwhelming the resistance
Speaker 2: on undoing a wrongful conviction is, you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely it is even under normal. Circumstances but here
Speaker 1: In brooklyn there's been an even more obstinate than usual
Speaker 1: obstacle in this. Case anthony brought his case to The
Speaker 1: Brooklyn Conviction Review unit in twenty, seventeen and one would
Speaker 1: think that the good folks there would take one look
Speaker 1: At graves's bullshit and do something about. It but the
Speaker 1: man tasked with running THE CiU In brooklyn since twenty
Speaker 1: fourteen Was Mark, hale who just so happens to be
Speaker 1: the man who Prosecuted anthony's.
Speaker 2: Case H.
Speaker 1: But and this is a big. Butt Mark hale just
Speaker 1: retired at the beginning Of july twenty twenty. One so
Speaker 1: while this is good news For, anthony there are still
Speaker 1: plenty of ways that this might not work. Out even
Speaker 1: With Mark hale out of the. Way brooklyn Da Er
Speaker 1: gonzalez continued to oppose throwing out his wrongful, conviction knowing
Speaker 1: That anthony only had two other, options his four to
Speaker 1: forty motion in front Of Judge Jenny, chun who had
Speaker 1: never granted a single four to forty motion in his lengthy,
Speaker 1: career or going in front of the par. Board both
Speaker 1: were dubious. Avenues so they went in front of this,
Speaker 1: judge And Julius graves not only admitted to perjuring himself at,
Speaker 1: trial also continued to say things that contradicted what he
Speaker 1: had previously said under. Oath, Meanwhile Mark hale also took
Speaker 1: the stand and claimed over and over again to have
Speaker 1: no memory of this Case Julius, graves or the Egregious brady.
Speaker 1: Violations the emotion is still. Pending, meanwhile the summer of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Two anthony was eligible for, parole and the
Speaker 1: board was much more reasonable releasing him on his first.
Speaker 1: Try So, anthony welcome.
Speaker 3: Back thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: Again, Well i'm sure your, Family keisha and everyone is
Speaker 1: just ecstatic to have you. Home so tell me about
Speaker 1: your first moments on the outside with.
Speaker 3: Them it was.
Speaker 6: SURREAL i couldn't believe. It december, FIRST i was. RELEASED
Speaker 6: i walked through the, DOORS i put my different clothes
Speaker 6: on that my wife sent, me AND i stood outside
Speaker 6: AND i was Met byha with his big hug and
Speaker 6: smiles of. Joy ALTHOUGH i was, outside it didn't seem.
Speaker 6: Real nothing at that moment seemed. Real and we drove
Speaker 6: to a Nearby. Dinah she just wanted to make sure
Speaker 6: THAT i had something good to eat for a. CHANGE
Speaker 6: i had sunnyside of, eggs hash brown Answer whole fries
Speaker 6: and it had some, toast and we ate and we.
Speaker 6: Talked she held my, HAND i held, hers AND i
Speaker 6: just tried to take it all.
Speaker 1: IN i gotta imagine that all of this has been,
Speaker 1: amazing but. BITTERSWEET i, mean you're finally, free but only
Speaker 1: after all of those. Years years you can't get, Back
Speaker 1: and there must be a lot of mixed, emotions and
Speaker 1: it's got to just be a burning desire to just
Speaker 1: clear your.
Speaker 6: Name that's the main. Thing because Although i'm, Free i'm
Speaker 6: still technically award to the. State i'm on parole right.
Speaker 6: NOW i have to report to a parole, officer so
Speaker 6: WHENEVER i need to go, SOMEWHERE i have to call
Speaker 6: and get permission to. GO i thank god that the
Speaker 6: parole officer that was designed to me is a cool parole.
Speaker 3: Officer he's.
Speaker 6: Decent you, know he does his, job but he's not
Speaker 6: one of those sticklers to just try to mess with,
Speaker 6: people so he's. Fair but, Yeah i'm Still i'm still
Speaker 6: a water to. State thing that could. Happen go for,
Speaker 6: BIT i get pulled, over somebody has a rough. Day
Speaker 6: he could just throw me right back in.
Speaker 1: There so what are the plans going? Forward right?
Speaker 6: Now it's a waiting.
Speaker 3: Game it's nothing.
Speaker 6: More we could do everything now rest in the hands
Speaker 6: of the, judge any chunk which is optimistic and hopeful
Speaker 6: that you know he'll he'll do the right day and exonerate.
Speaker 6: Me if, he as an exonerators, did then of course
Speaker 6: we're gonna put an Appealing, well you.
Speaker 1: Have all of our support and your quest to lay
Speaker 1: claims your actual, innocence and with that we're gonna go
Speaker 1: to closing, arguments where first of, All i'm gonna thank you,
Speaker 1: AGAIN i mean just for being, you because you inspire
Speaker 1: the fuck out of. Me, HONESTLY i know you don't,
Speaker 1: curse BUT i. Do you inspire me to want to
Speaker 1: work harder and smarter and longer hours to help the
Speaker 1: other countless number Of Anthony simmons out. There and Now
Speaker 1: i'm gonna sit back in my, chair turn my mic,
Speaker 1: off and just listen to any closing thoughts that you
Speaker 1: may want to. Share i'm really excited that you're. Here
Speaker 1: i'm really excited that you're. Free So jonathan And thomas will,
Speaker 1: go and then we're going to save you for.
Speaker 4: LAST i think it's important to look at the broader
Speaker 4: picture and how this injustice, occurred and it's because the
Speaker 4: system did not value the life Of Anthony, simms and
Speaker 4: it also did not value the life Of lee Run.
Speaker 4: Chun what we're fighting to do is to make sure
Speaker 4: that justice is served For anthony and also for the,
Speaker 4: victim for the truth to, emerge and every ounce of
Speaker 4: help we can get to ensure that happens is deeply
Speaker 4: appreciated because the truth has been clear from the start
Speaker 4: That Julius graves was the perpetrator of this awful, crime
Speaker 4: Not Anthony. Simms so thank you, Again, jason.
Speaker 2: Thank you again for doing. THIS i believe you have
Speaker 2: had one hundred and forty five podcasts of people who
Speaker 2: were wontfully. CONVICTED i have listened to. Many while the facts,
Speaker 2: vary the stories are all the. SAME a horrific crime is,
Speaker 2: committed drawing wide media and public, attention perpetrators need to
Speaker 2: be taken off the street and held to. Account, however
Speaker 2: the concern of the police and the prosecutors is not
Speaker 2: to find the actual, perpetrator but to give the public
Speaker 2: the perception that the case was. Solved it did not
Speaker 2: matter whether the right person was brought to, justice as
Speaker 2: long as the conviction was secured and the public fear.
Speaker 2: Allayed As jonathan, said neither the victim nor the defendant's
Speaker 2: life is valued as long as the cases were so
Speaker 2: to the public is not, valued as the police did
Speaker 2: not care whether the actual perpetrator remained loose and posed
Speaker 2: the danger to the. Public also common in order to
Speaker 2: win these, cases favorable evidence pointing away from defendants guilt
Speaker 2: is disregarded, and in contravention of the prosecutor's constitutional, duty
Speaker 2: is hidden from the. Defender, meanwhile husband's, wives, mothers, fathers, sisters,
Speaker 2: brothers and sons and daughters are, destroyed all in the
Speaker 2: interest of winning at all. Courts people ask me why
Speaker 2: DO i do? THIS i Now i'm giving it. AWAY
Speaker 2: am A holocaust. SURVIVOR i was born in nineteen forty.
Speaker 2: Four basically my, family extensive family was wiped, down and
Speaker 2: That holocaust was caused by people remaining. Silent undo this horrific, Injustice.
Speaker 1: ANTHONY i just want to say thank you again for
Speaker 1: all the.
Speaker 6: Supporters definitely to you for taking the Time i'll actually
Speaker 6: hear our stories and give us a platform or give
Speaker 6: me a platform to talk about these wrongful. Convictions Since
Speaker 6: i've been, Out i've been doing a lot of things
Speaker 6: to try to bring awareness a criminal. Justice i've been
Speaker 6: very supportive in different venues to speaking, engagements AND i
Speaker 6: will always try to lend a voice to the people
Speaker 6: who can't be. HEARD i just pray and hope that
Speaker 6: you know this nightmare is over with. SOON i pray
Speaker 6: and hope That Danny tune just does the right thing
Speaker 6: and go over the material and review everything and then
Speaker 6: exonerate me so THAT i could live my. LIFE i
Speaker 6: Know i'll never be able to get those years. BACK
Speaker 6: i know That i'll never be able to get the
Speaker 6: scar off of me of, prison you know What i'm.
Speaker 6: Saying BUT i just want a fresh start AND i
Speaker 6: just pray for that. Opportunity and, AGAIN i thank you
Speaker 6: for to support and. Everything and of COURSE i thank
Speaker 6: my beautiful wife because she's the. Truth that's my better
Speaker 6: half right. There so thanks, again.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Rapel. Conviction i'd like to
Speaker 1: thank our production Team Connor, Hall Jeff, cliburn And Kevin,
Speaker 1: artist with research By Lyla. Robinson the music in this
Speaker 1: production was supplied by three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay.
Speaker 1: Ralph be sure to follow us On instagram At Wrongful,
Speaker 1: conviction On facebook At Wrongful conviction, podcast and On twitter
Speaker 1: at Wrong, conviction as well as At lava For. Good
Speaker 1: on all three. Platforms you can also follow me on
Speaker 1: both TikTok And instagram At It's Jason. Flam Wrongful conviction
Speaker 1: is the production Of lava For good podcast and association
Speaker 1: With Signal Company number one