Speaker 1: You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Girl. Welcome
Speaker 1: back to I Choose Me. We talk about the choices
Speaker 1: we make in life and where they lead us. I'm
Speaker 1: so incredibly excited about today's conversation. My guest is an
Speaker 1: actress you have loved and cried with for years, probably
Speaker 1: especially on one of the most culturally dominant shows of
Speaker 1: our time. But what you might not know is that
Speaker 1: she's also a director, a producer, a pastor's daughter, and
Speaker 1: someone who makes profound choices every single day to live
Speaker 1: a life aligned with her purpose. Please welcome the brilliant, wonderful,
Speaker 1: and deeply real Sarah Drew. I have so much to
Speaker 1: talk to you about. You've been so brave in your
Speaker 1: career and all the choices you've made. You work NonStop,
Speaker 1: so many credits, I couldn't keep scrolling through them all.
Speaker 2: It's been what.
Speaker 3: I feel, so lucky and so blessed, and I you know,
Speaker 3: I don't. I just I love where I love to work,
Speaker 3: and I love that there have been opportunities to keep working,
Speaker 3: and and then I started writing, so then I started
Speaker 3: making my own work and I love them. It's it's yeah,
Speaker 3: it's a lot but it's and it's a lot to
Speaker 3: juggle with kids and everything.
Speaker 1: It really is it? Really speaking of kids, something you
Speaker 1: said really resonated with me. I think you said before
Speaker 1: you had your kids that you were terrified of becoming
Speaker 1: a mom, because that's it. I mean, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: the one of the biggest I choose me moments. You
Speaker 1: can make that choice to become a mother. What what
Speaker 1: were you so terrified of? And now that you have
Speaker 1: what a tween and a teen? Yeah, are you so
Speaker 1: terrified or are you more terrified?
Speaker 3: It's it's it's gosh, it's just all of the ever thing, right.
Speaker 3: I think I was really afraid of failing like a
Speaker 3: as a mom. Just I knew that becoming a mother
Speaker 3: would require a lot of sacrifice, and I was really
Speaker 3: content to be pretty self absorbed. Actually, wait, and I
Speaker 3: think that there was a real fear that I would
Speaker 3: not be able to rise to the occasion. And I
Speaker 3: remember writing to my dad. My dad's a pastor, retired pastor,
Speaker 3: but he is like just a founta of wisdom always
Speaker 3: for me and I when I was pregnant, it's like
Speaker 3: I'm not sleeping it. Also, it also took me a
Speaker 3: while to feel ready to even start the process of
Speaker 3: trying to get pregnant, like a bunch of my friends
Speaker 3: had had babies before me. I remember hiding it, like
Speaker 3: with an anxiety attack in a side room at a
Speaker 3: baby shower, just because there's so much joy happening in
Speaker 3: the room, and I'm like, I'm just not ready for this.
Speaker 3: I don't. I want. I want all these things in life,
Speaker 3: and I want everything to be all set up. I
Speaker 3: want the table set, you know, before I embark on
Speaker 3: this thing that feels so huge. And the reality is
Speaker 3: that the table is never set in life. You are
Speaker 3: constantly clearing dishes and resetting the table. That's a good
Speaker 3: add it just it's if you're waiting for the table
Speaker 3: to be set for anything, you will never move forward.
Speaker 1: So true, right, like universal.
Speaker 3: Yes, absolutely, And I think that knowing that I had
Speaker 3: to get comfortable in the surrender of it all, in
Speaker 3: the reality of like, yeah, I'm totally going to fail
Speaker 3: at times. As long as I can get comfortable with
Speaker 3: messing up and repairing and taking responsibility and learning from
Speaker 3: those mistakes, then the sky is the limits in terms
Speaker 3: of how you can grow and how you can parent
Speaker 3: and how you can be a partner and you know
Speaker 3: how you can be an artist the world. You just
Speaker 3: have to keep throwing shit at the wall.
Speaker 1: I mean for sure.
Speaker 3: No, it's it's like that fear.
Speaker 1: Though of the unknown. It can stop so many of
Speaker 1: us from taking action.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely, it was very I remember my dad when
Speaker 3: I emailed him just to be like, I'm not sleeping
Speaker 3: at night. I'm so scared of this child coming and
Speaker 3: then me just like ruining their life or just not
Speaker 3: enjoying anything any part of it. Like everything about it
Speaker 3: is so scary. He gave me a bunch of like
Speaker 3: lovely Bible verses to meditate on, and then one of
Speaker 3: the things that really sustayed with me was he said,
Speaker 3: I want you to start habit of aggressive gratitude. I
Speaker 3: was like, what he said, when you are in a practice,
Speaker 3: and he called it aggressive because it's like you got
Speaker 3: to work at it. You got to be on the gratitude.
Speaker 1: You got to keep choosing. You had to.
Speaker 3: Keep choosing it over and over and over again. Because
Speaker 3: it doesn't us fly at your face. I mean it
Speaker 3: does in like heightened moments of bliss and whatever, but
Speaker 3: in real life, it's more it's easier to find the
Speaker 3: faults and of course imperfections, yes, of course. So like, fine,
Speaker 3: look deciding I'm waking up in the morning and I'm
Speaker 3: choosing to be grateful for this and this and this,
Speaker 3: And he said, it's going to feel weird at first,
Speaker 3: but once you get going with it, you'll start to
Speaker 3: see things in your world that just make you go, oh,
Speaker 3: I was looking for it because I was already in
Speaker 3: gratitude this morning, and there's something else to be grateful for,
Speaker 3: something else. And he said, you can't just tell yourself
Speaker 3: to stop fearing. You have to replace it with something else.
Speaker 3: So replacing it with this active, aggressive gratitude, it ends
Speaker 3: up kind of dispelling that stuff that usually never comes
Speaker 3: to pass, because that's what fear is, you know, it's
Speaker 3: not substantive, it's not real, it's it's just a thought.
Speaker 3: It's thoughts, and ninety eight percent of the things we
Speaker 3: freak ourselves out about don't come to pass, right, So yeah,
Speaker 3: So I started a practice of doing that, and it really, yeah,
Speaker 3: it really transformed like just my heart and my heart
Speaker 3: space and just sort of preparing the way for this
Speaker 3: child to come and change my life.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. And that's what happens when you become
Speaker 1: a mother. What would you say now to your younger
Speaker 1: self who was so scared in that moment, or if
Speaker 1: somebody's listening now that maybe's having their first baby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, I would just say, first of all, you
Speaker 3: got to want to be a mom a parent, Like,
Speaker 3: don't just fly into it because everybody else says that
Speaker 3: this is a thing you should do. I think the
Speaker 3: desire needs to be there, and I think maybe a
Speaker 3: lot of people walk into it kind of going because
Speaker 3: this is what we're supposed to do, right, We're just
Speaker 3: supposed to have babies.
Speaker 1: In the I'm a mom and I take care of family.
Speaker 3: It's exactly like, I think there needs to be a
Speaker 3: real desire there. But if that desire is there, the
Speaker 3: leap is terrifying. But the adventure is so beyond your
Speaker 3: wildest dreams. And I don't mean that it's full of
Speaker 3: bliss all the time. It is hard, and it is
Speaker 3: oh so painful at times hilariously funny. You know, when
Speaker 3: they get to the age where they start cracking jokes
Speaker 3: and they start becoming company instead of work. It's like
Speaker 3: this magical transformation where you're like, you are funny and
Speaker 3: I'm enjoying you.
Speaker 1: What is it like with the tweeney and the teeny?
Speaker 1: How is it in your house right now?
Speaker 3: It's really fun and really vibrant. Homework has gotten harder,
Speaker 3: and so there are many tears involved with homework.
Speaker 1: What is this thing with homework?
Speaker 3: The homework load is really intense, The managing schedules is
Speaker 3: really intense. The relational drama has like picked up, and
Speaker 3: so there's real things that are happening in the kids'
Speaker 3: hearts and stuff. But also my kids are like musical
Speaker 3: theater kids, and there's a lot of singing in our house.
Speaker 3: They're like belting at the top of our lungs. Like
Speaker 3: my daughter will start singing a song from Dear Evan Hanson.
Speaker 3: Then my son will pick it up in his room,
Speaker 3: and then they'll just be singing across the house in harmonies.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's so interesting.
Speaker 3: So you live in a musical. I live in a musical. Yeah.
Speaker 3: There are times when my husband and are like and
Speaker 3: I are like, if we could just turn the volume down,
Speaker 3: just like a tiny bit, it would feel better on
Speaker 3: our nervous systems. But of course, no, don't ever say that.
Speaker 1: Oh, let them sing, No, let them sing Yeah, is
Speaker 1: so true, because there will be a day in their development.
Speaker 1: Hopefully it'll be quick when they'll Yeah, I don't want
Speaker 1: them to be quiet. Maybe you won't, maybe they won't
Speaker 1: ever be quiet.
Speaker 3: But I don't no, I will say all of the
Speaker 3: really deep conversations, like when they really need to talk
Speaker 3: about something, begin at ten fifteen at night.
Speaker 1: That kind of passed my prime.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm already asleep. My face mask is on my head,
Speaker 3: ready to be shoved over my eyeballs. Oh my god, mommy,
Speaker 3: I need to tell you about something.
Speaker 1: It's the worst.
Speaker 3: You're like, okay, yep, here we go, Here we go
Speaker 3: another hour.
Speaker 1: God bless the fact that they're coming and talking to you.
Speaker 3: I would not trade it for anything. And my son
Speaker 3: right now is doing a production of a Christmas Carol
Speaker 3: and it's like it's a noise within which is a
Speaker 3: professional theater in East Pasadena. So he's got eight shows
Speaker 3: a week. He's just had a student matinee today. You know,
Speaker 3: he is working, working, and also applying for high schools,
Speaker 3: and so we've been immersed in just time management, which
Speaker 3: is those conversations are so agonizingly unfun. Not fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a lot to juggle. I feel like
Speaker 1: I always said, like I would take back the diaper
Speaker 1: years in a heartbeat. Those were so much more easy, so.
Speaker 3: Much easier, so much easy, so much more, so much
Speaker 3: less emotional weight was there. Yeah, it was just about
Speaker 3: taking care of something, keeping it a lot, just keep
Speaker 3: it alive, just keep it, just both.
Speaker 1: Called it it.
Speaker 3: You know it, it's crying. What does it need? There
Speaker 3: are four things it could need?
Speaker 1: So okay, I want to talk about the cultural giant
Speaker 1: that was your home for nine seasons. So for those
Speaker 1: of you listening that don't know, maybe you lived under
Speaker 1: a rock. You played April Kepner on The Great Gray's Anatomy.
Speaker 1: What an honor. It really shaped your career?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely transformed my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really really, I want to know how. But I
Speaker 1: also think, like you know, when you're a part of
Speaker 1: a big crew like that, it's very easy to kind
Speaker 1: of find your rhythm and your and things and you
Speaker 1: kind of your purpose. You know, when you step away,
Speaker 1: things change. Oh yeah, it's a big transition. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about that in a second. But how to being a
Speaker 1: part of that world shape who you are as a
Speaker 1: person on a personal level? I mean in so many ways.
Speaker 3: I think one of the biggest ways for me was
Speaker 3: actually learning how to use my voice on a set
Speaker 3: in an environment where that was welcome and encouraged. I
Speaker 3: Sandra oh Is I just love her so much. I
Speaker 3: have so much respect for her, and she's so talented, incredible,
Speaker 3: She's so incredible. But what I got to witness with
Speaker 3: the way that she engaged with the writers, it was
Speaker 3: such a beautiful thing to see. She would advocate so
Speaker 3: passionately for her character and her character's storylines, and the
Speaker 3: writers loved it because it was it was done with
Speaker 3: such respect and such collaboration, and it was like they
Speaker 3: were on this journey together. And I was like, oh, man,
Speaker 3: if Sandra oh can do that, is she can use
Speaker 3: her voice and advocate for because you sign on to
Speaker 3: a show and you have no idea where the writers
Speaker 3: are going to take you, right, and it's so it's
Speaker 3: every every week is a new episode going, oh, I
Speaker 3: guess that's who I am? Is that who I am?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Okay? You very much like.
Speaker 3: Life, very much like life exactly. You're adjusting and recalibrating
Speaker 3: and and but then as you get to know your
Speaker 3: character and you start to inhabit your character for a
Speaker 3: long time, then things start to feel like, well, I'm
Speaker 3: not sure she would actually go down that road, or
Speaker 3: maybe she would go down that road in this kind
Speaker 3: of a different way. And now that I've been living
Speaker 3: in her skin for a couple of years, like, I,
Speaker 3: what about if we do it like this?
Speaker 1: Had you been in environments previously where you didn't have
Speaker 1: a voice, I didn't.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that I was allowed to have a voice.
Speaker 3: I think I think in my previous like, I've always
Speaker 3: been vocal in terms of like blocking, you know, when
Speaker 3: we're on set, in terms of oh, oh, is that
Speaker 3: how the scene is going to go? Oh? Because I
Speaker 3: was thinking about it from this perspective, but oh, let's
Speaker 3: try it this way, you know, in that kind of collaboration.
Speaker 3: But in terms of getting the script and then going
Speaker 3: is that the trajectory of my character? I don't know.
Speaker 3: But what about what we did in the scene two
Speaker 3: episodes ago and when she said this thing? How is
Speaker 3: that connecting to this? Help me understand? Or is there
Speaker 3: another way that we can say this that feels more
Speaker 3: in line with who she was two episodes ago? You know,
Speaker 3: I just had never I had never known that I
Speaker 3: could speak into that piece of the collaborative process.
Speaker 1: Do you think that affected you in your personal life
Speaker 1: as well? Did that kind of spill into you finding
Speaker 1: a new sort of.
Speaker 3: I think it's more that I've always expressed my opinion
Speaker 3: in life, but I didn't bring it to my work.
Speaker 3: So it was more about allowing more of like who
Speaker 3: Sarah is to come into play in the work environment.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm an actor but also a people pleaser
Speaker 3: by nature and an achiever by nature. And so I
Speaker 3: think I spent a lot of my life just wanting
Speaker 3: to keep everybody happy, you know. And even if I
Speaker 3: was like, I'm not sure about that, I'm often will
Speaker 3: I would often take responsibility for something I didn't I
Speaker 3: didn't have responsibility for just to avoid the conflict, just
Speaker 3: to make everybody okay, you know. And so I think
Speaker 3: in allowing myself to speak but also learn how to
Speaker 3: navigate in the relationships so that I wasn't stepping on
Speaker 3: toes and nobody was getting a And it was really
Speaker 3: about let's craft something gorgeous together, and look at what
Speaker 3: you're bringing to the table, and look at what I'm
Speaker 3: also bringing to the table, and how can we find
Speaker 3: the best idea together. You know, it's kind of hard.
Speaker 1: To shift from you know, your those years where you're
Speaker 1: creating the autonomy and figuring yourself out and then finding
Speaker 1: your stride, and then you meet somebody and you're in
Speaker 1: a relationship. Yeah, and then that's like screech, tire screech.
Speaker 3: The funny thing is I've been with my husband for
Speaker 3: like twenty six years. So we met, I know, we
Speaker 3: met when I was so, so, so young. And what's
Speaker 3: very interesting about that is, I feel like you change
Speaker 3: and grow so much in your twenties and thirties, it's bananas.
Speaker 3: I feel like we met, we've reacquainted each other with
Speaker 3: a new version of ourselves every seven months.
Speaker 1: How old were you.
Speaker 2: When you met him?
Speaker 3: Eighteen?
Speaker 1: Wow? Okay, yeah, it's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we were babies and we got married. I
Speaker 3: was twenty one. I was like a month out of college,
Speaker 3: and so I think I was finding myself while I
Speaker 3: was already in a relationship. And I'm so grateful that
Speaker 3: I met him as young as I did. It didn't
Speaker 3: come without its challenges, for sure, but he's not in
Speaker 3: the industry, and he is he and he knew me
Speaker 3: before I had I had found any kind of success.
Speaker 3: I was a college kid, you know, nothing had happened
Speaker 3: in micro I was just Sarah, and so we got
Speaker 3: to kind of take this journey of discovery together. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I love that. Yeah, because it can be a lonely journey,
Speaker 1: especially for a woman.
Speaker 3: Yes, I imagine it is. I mean, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't I was just thinking about
Speaker 3: it today because I mean, so much stuff with with
Speaker 3: what our kids are going through and my son entering
Speaker 3: into high school at Applying Price, there's a lot that we're
Speaker 3: sort of spinning around in our heads and a lot
Speaker 3: of things we're thinking about. And my husband is so
Speaker 3: grounded and so level headed, and he he thinks about
Speaker 3: things from nineteen thousand different perspectives and does research on
Speaker 3: every single possible thing. Oh, I'm much more so helpful.
Speaker 3: I'm much more impulsive, much more like, this is my gut,
Speaker 3: let's just do this, you know. And it's and I'm
Speaker 3: so grateful to him because he has been I've been
Speaker 3: in and out of town so much so he's really
Speaker 3: been the grounded force in our family life. And I
Speaker 3: was just I was just driving in my car, going
Speaker 3: thank God that I have Peter. Thank God that I
Speaker 3: met him when I did, Thank God that he is
Speaker 3: the father of my children and my partner in life.
Speaker 1: Like it was just there's that aggressive gratitude.
Speaker 3: Yes, you can keep practicing, Just keep practicing.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. So. Your character went through quite a lot on
Speaker 1: grays Havy.
Speaker 3: I so much trauma, Yeah.
Speaker 1: So much trauma, drama, all the things, emotions. I know
Speaker 1: from experience how that can kind of put you in
Speaker 1: a certain head space, especially when you're at work doing
Speaker 1: really I mean, your character was saving lives or not, yeah,
Speaker 1: and dealing with all of that. How did you turn
Speaker 1: that off? As your kids were younger? You would go
Speaker 1: to work I'm assuming twelve hours a day at least
Speaker 1: at least yeah, and then you would come home and
Speaker 1: switch gears to being a mom and have to shed
Speaker 1: all of what you just were.
Speaker 3: I mean not always successfully, right. I had a really
Speaker 3: I mean a couple crazy stories, one of which is
Speaker 3: I played this really traumatic pregnancy storyline while I was
Speaker 3: pregnant with my daughter. Yeah, I was eight months pregnant
Speaker 3: with her when when I played this horrible labor delivery
Speaker 3: and death scene where the baby dies in my arms
Speaker 3: and I'm Okay, actually that's pregnant. Yeah, And I got
Speaker 3: home and ten hours later went into premature labor. And
Speaker 3: she came a month early and was in the nick
Speaker 3: you for two weeks, like.
Speaker 1: That's not gonna happen to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she was like, I'm getting out of here. You
Speaker 3: started it apparently on set, pretending. So here we go.
Speaker 3: We're in labor now, you know. So, because your body,
Speaker 3: when you're going through trauma, you're and you're really entering
Speaker 3: into the imaginary space in that way of the character
Speaker 3: of the character, you don't your body doesn't know the difference.
Speaker 3: Your body's like, oh, yeah, we're adrenaline spiking now, and
Speaker 3: our cortisol levels are through the roof and you're panicking now,
Speaker 3: and you're hyperventilating now, and so our heart is racing,
Speaker 3: and so we don't we don't know that this isn't real.
Speaker 3: There's a lion that's really chasing us, you know. And
Speaker 3: so coming out of that was really hard. I do
Speaker 3: remember when my character was going through a divorce. It
Speaker 3: was such a dark, sad storyline. And it was so
Speaker 3: sad too because my friend Jesse Williams, who played my
Speaker 3: main acting partner on the show. We both loved working
Speaker 3: together and loved being in this in this on Green relationship.
Speaker 3: It was so we had we told so many beautiful stories.
Speaker 3: We had such a fun, delightful friendship, and we were
Speaker 3: both sad then they were just like splashing pieces, you know,
Speaker 3: And and I would come home and be like so
Speaker 3: sad about just how sad April and Jackson were. And
Speaker 3: I remember my husband being like, you have two living
Speaker 3: children and you are in a happy marriage. Can I
Speaker 3: talk to Sarah and not April now, Like, can you
Speaker 3: let the trauma from your fake life? Just like relax
Speaker 3: in the corner.
Speaker 1: Very helpful to like it here.
Speaker 3: Let's just say I just need to come back to
Speaker 3: meet Sarah, Like you're too much in April's pain, Because
Speaker 3: she was in pain every day. I would have to
Speaker 3: go for like twelve hours and just be in agony.
Speaker 1: That sounds like so much fun.
Speaker 3: I mean, weirdly, I'm a bit of a glutton for
Speaker 3: punishment when it comes to any kind of big emotion.
Speaker 3: I mean, otherwise why would I.
Speaker 2: Be an actor?
Speaker 1: You know, I think emotions are so underrated. Yeah, people
Speaker 1: just try to hide them. People tell you they're bad,
Speaker 1: You're too emotional.
Speaker 3: No, you let a fly. I say this to my
Speaker 3: son all the time because he he cries, and from
Speaker 3: the earliest years of his life, I'm like, apps, get
Speaker 3: that cry out, you express it. Don't ever think this
Speaker 3: is a weakness. Crying is so good. It feels so good.
Speaker 3: And whenever he has like a big cry about something,
Speaker 3: I'm like, yes, yes, let's exercise all of this, get
Speaker 3: it all out of your systems. Feel so good.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 3: That's a good mom right there, that's a good mom.
Speaker 3: So Shonda Rhimes, who created the show, famously has.
Speaker 1: A no jerks policy. Did you ever feel as a
Speaker 1: female actress, or even just an actor, did you ever
Speaker 1: feel pitted against other actors or actresses for more?
Speaker 3: Never?
Speaker 1: Nothing, Oh my gosh, never.
Speaker 3: No. I felt so supported and so cared for. And
Speaker 3: I even remember after my daughter Hannah was born, I
Speaker 3: had started I'd had some postpartum that I was struggling with,
Speaker 3: and I was I was finding that whenever I would
Speaker 3: work second half of Fridays, it always turned into friturday
Speaker 3: and then I'd get home at four in the morning
Speaker 3: and my baby would be up at six and I
Speaker 3: didn't have childcare on the weekends. And then I just
Speaker 3: couldn't catch up on sleep and I went to her
Speaker 3: after a couple weeks of doing this, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of falling apart, like I can't remember my lines,
Speaker 3: and I just I need some support. I need some help.
Speaker 3: If there's any way that I can just like be
Speaker 3: off of the rotation for second half of Fridays. I
Speaker 3: could do any other day knowing that I have support
Speaker 3: coming and helping, and I could sleep, you know, but
Speaker 3: on Friday nights and She's like done, this is a matriarchy.
Speaker 3: For the rest of the season, You're never working se
Speaker 3: have a Friday's Like it was so easy to just
Speaker 3: she was so supportive, and everybody that comes onto a
Speaker 3: Shonda show was like, if you want to have babies,
Speaker 3: do it now to show and do it now because
Speaker 3: it's like the sweetest environment. Everybody would go on the
Speaker 3: shows and just have the babies.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's a fertile ground.
Speaker 3: It's fertile ground.
Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my gosh. You lived inside April Kaepner for
Speaker 1: a very long time, and she went so through so
Speaker 1: many ups and downs. Such a very relatable character because
Speaker 1: we all go through those highs and those lows. What
Speaker 1: part of her still is in you today? Oh, that's
Speaker 1: great question, because playing a character for that long, Oh,
Speaker 1: she's like always.
Speaker 3: Going to be a part of me. I mean there
Speaker 3: were pieces of me that kind of led into her
Speaker 3: and became her, as well as pieces of her that
Speaker 3: that all take with me forever. What I what I
Speaker 3: take from April A couple things. It's really so sweet.
Speaker 3: Whenever I meet fans who just love April, often there
Speaker 3: are like shaking in tears. And it's almost always not
Speaker 3: because they're like, oh it's Sarah Drew. It's because April
Speaker 3: has gone. April has been on their iPad or on
Speaker 3: their phone or in their living room or whatever for
Speaker 3: years and years and years. They've watched the seasons many
Speaker 3: many times, and they have witnessed this young woman who
Speaker 3: was mocked and ridiculed when she came on to the show,
Speaker 3: and the audience hated her too. I mean, it was injured.
Speaker 3: Wasn't just the other characters made fun of the audience. Oh,
Speaker 3: she was kind of grating and a bit annoying and
Speaker 3: a little insecure, and like there just was like she
Speaker 3: I was only supposed to be there for two episodes. Lately,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, and then they brought me back and it
Speaker 3: was this yeah, it's crazy. She then became this other.
Speaker 3: She blossomed into this whole other, you know, nine years
Speaker 3: later a person. But what I think so many people
Speaker 3: connect to is that April felt really lonely. She was
Speaker 3: really lonely, and then she found her tribe in this hospital.
Speaker 3: She kind of came into her own. She has this
Speaker 3: whole episode where she's like her sisters called her an
Speaker 3: ugly duckling forever, but she's like, I'm not an ugly
Speaker 3: duckling anymore. I'm a swan. And not just because she
Speaker 3: had a glow up and looks pretty or whatever, but
Speaker 3: because she she came into her own in terms of confidence.
Speaker 1: She works her butt off.
Speaker 3: To be excellent, an excellent surgeon. She has empathy for
Speaker 3: her for her patients. That and she has this faith
Speaker 3: that she has like lived by and is sort of
Speaker 3: the true north of her life. That I mean. She
Speaker 3: gets divorced, she loses a baby, she almost dies on
Speaker 3: the table having another baby, She goes she gets fired
Speaker 3: twice on the show. You know there. She goes through
Speaker 3: so much and she has this massive crisis where she
Speaker 3: loses her faith and goes into this dark space in
Speaker 3: my final year on the show, and then relentlessly comes
Speaker 3: back into joy and comes back into life and.
Speaker 1: Won't give up.
Speaker 3: She doesn't give up on herself, she doesn't give up
Speaker 3: on the people that matter to her. She's just relentlessly
Speaker 3: in pursuit of goodness and joy and hope. And I
Speaker 3: think so many people who feel lonely or who have
Speaker 3: been beat up by life a bit, they watch April
Speaker 3: and they go, if April can do it, I can't
Speaker 3: do If she can make it through losing a child,
Speaker 3: then maybe I can get through the miscarriage I just had,
Speaker 3: you know. If she can get through the pain of
Speaker 3: losing the love of her life and then come out
Speaker 3: the other side and go through this twisty turny journey
Speaker 3: to then find her happiness and her purpose, maybe I
Speaker 3: can too, you know.
Speaker 1: So I.
Speaker 3: That's what I will always take from her. Oh she's
Speaker 3: such a fighter. She's a warrior, you know, but like
Speaker 3: an emotional warrior who's relentlessly trying her best to be good,
Speaker 3: you know, Like not there are warriors that are just like, ah,
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna win, you know what I mean. But
Speaker 3: she just is like no, I just want to do
Speaker 3: the right thing, you know, I don't know. I just
Speaker 3: I love and respect her.
Speaker 1: So that is so so good. So leaving a show
Speaker 1: like that, yeah, can be a big emotional and personal shift.
Speaker 3: Oh big time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that like for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a very big grief because I didn't
Speaker 3: see it. I didn't know it was coming. It wasn't
Speaker 3: my decision, and so it was a very big, like wow,
Speaker 3: shock to the system for sure. I had no idea,
Speaker 3: and I it was a really interesting journey. And I've
Speaker 3: spoken to so many of my friends who've gone through
Speaker 3: losing jobs. There's a weird grief that comes from a
Speaker 3: job loss that you almost feel embarrassed that you grieve
Speaker 3: something like a job so deeply. It's like it's not
Speaker 3: a person, it's not you haven't lost like nobody's lost
Speaker 3: my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but you.
Speaker 3: But there's so many aspects of being in a community,
Speaker 3: in a work community, doing your life's work with this
Speaker 3: specific group of people who know you, know your name,
Speaker 3: you know them, you know you've been on this road
Speaker 3: for almost a decade and having that and not to
Speaker 3: mention the identity stuff that goes with it, Like I
Speaker 3: remember in those early days, right after being written off,
Speaker 3: I was just like, I've been that girl that's on
Speaker 3: that show.
Speaker 1: For so long?
Speaker 3: Right, who am if I'm not that girl that's on
Speaker 3: that show? You know, Like Gray's put me into a
Speaker 3: household name. It gave me notoriety that I had never
Speaker 3: previously had, and then all of a sudden, I'm not
Speaker 3: there and they're continuing on without me. You know it
Speaker 3: is it's a big thief. Yeah, it's a big grief,
Speaker 3: and I had to kind of give my self permission
Speaker 3: to feel all the feelings that are associated with it.
Speaker 3: And sometimes I would, you know, I would, I would
Speaker 3: say something in an interview, and then somebody would grab
Speaker 3: a I think somebody grabbed Sarah Likin's getting written off
Speaker 3: the show to attending her own funeral, which is of course.
Speaker 3: I was saying it in the context of when you
Speaker 3: leave something that nobody was expecting you to leave, the
Speaker 3: love that pours out is so epic. It's like you're
Speaker 3: listening to yourself being eulogized. It's just just but I
Speaker 3: know exactly well, and then of course everybody mocks oh yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: it was like a funeral, like get over yourself. It's
Speaker 3: so stupid, Sarah. But for me, it's just like in
Speaker 3: our lives, we don't often tell people how much we
Speaker 3: love them and why we love them just on a
Speaker 3: random Wednesday. You know. It usually takes something big for
Speaker 3: someone to express all of those things, And so the
Speaker 3: bigness of the moment of being written off ended up
Speaker 3: bringing all these lovely thoughts and words from people to
Speaker 3: the surface. So it was so tender and beautiful and
Speaker 3: gorgeous and like something I never would have experienced if
Speaker 3: I had just left of my own accord, or if
Speaker 3: I you know.
Speaker 1: So it's it took me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it took me a minute. I've totally lost my
Speaker 3: train of thought, just went of fun.
Speaker 1: It was about just getting settling into the fact that
Speaker 1: you're no longer yes that girl from that show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it took me. It took me a minute.
Speaker 3: I it was hard to keep watching the show just
Speaker 3: because I said, oh, that's my family going on. That's
Speaker 3: a set I haven't.
Speaker 1: What was the time between like the end of that
Speaker 1: role and your next role? Do you did it was
Speaker 1: a lady? Yeah quick?
Speaker 3: Or it was pretty quick.
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 3: I went. I did a Christmas movie for Lifetime, I
Speaker 3: think a couple months later. So yeah, I was oh,
Speaker 3: actually no, there there was an immediate thing because I
Speaker 3: was told that I wasn't going to be on the
Speaker 3: show anymore on a Tuesday, and then my team, you know,
Speaker 3: reached duiler. Are there any pilots that are still casting?
Speaker 3: Back when we had a pilot season, are there any
Speaker 3: pilots that are still casting? And so I wound up
Speaker 3: testing and getting cast as a lead in a pilot
Speaker 3: for Cagney and Lacey. So I actually was shooting it
Speaker 3: literally day one of shooting that pilot was exactly the
Speaker 3: next Tuesday, like one week later. There's some medicine for
Speaker 3: your grief. Yeah it was. That was a a lovely
Speaker 3: little god hug. For sure, it didn't get picked up,
Speaker 3: but it didn't matter. It was a very sweet moment
Speaker 3: of feeling like, oh, I'm gonna be okay, Okay.
Speaker 1: People still want me, like, oh my gosh, it's so true.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, okay you grew up a pastor's daughter. Yes,
Speaker 1: that can have you know, you're very proud of it,
Speaker 1: which is wonderful. That can have a rep you know,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's got a stigma. My best friend when
Speaker 1: I was a teenager, was a pastor's daughter, and we
Speaker 1: got into some trouble. Let me tell you. When I
Speaker 1: was hanging out for Rohnda Ronda if your little Mironda
Speaker 1: Ronda and Rex, her brother, we we got in trouble
Speaker 1: and the pastor would always catch us.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so funny.
Speaker 1: Did you ever get into trouble as a past.
Speaker 3: I was such a goody two shoe I have my
Speaker 3: I just wanted to do the right thing all the time. So, oh, hi,
Speaker 3: April Kepner, she is April Keptainer. Yeah and April are
Speaker 3: so similar. I maybe I wish I'd gotten into a
Speaker 3: little bit more trouble.
Speaker 1: Be fun.
Speaker 3: It would have been fun, but I didn't want to.
Speaker 3: I was also so driven and so focused. So, like
Speaker 3: you know, I was acting, and acting was the greatest
Speaker 3: love of my life, and so and I wasn't I
Speaker 3: wasn't allowed to do the shows unless I was keeping
Speaker 3: up with my work, and I didn't have time to
Speaker 3: get into trouble. If I'm being perfectly honest. My high
Speaker 3: school was so rigorous that I had to use every
Speaker 3: twenty minutes. I had to get my homework done so
Speaker 3: that I could then go to required sports and then
Speaker 3: scarf some food down my mouth and then go to
Speaker 3: rehearsal for three hours every night. You know, so I
Speaker 3: didn't Yeah, I didn't have time to get into trouble.
Speaker 1: Do you see that repeating with your own kids like
Speaker 1: that drive? Yes, what do you like? Do you think
Speaker 1: that's a good thing? Or would you now knowing because
Speaker 1: you went through it and now and you've come all
Speaker 1: the way on to the other side of it, Like
Speaker 1: do you want that for them? Or do you want them?
Speaker 3: I don't want the stress and anxiety that I remember feeling,
Speaker 3: and my son is feeling it right now and I
Speaker 3: and I it's and it's challenging. And also he's like,
Speaker 3: it's all worth it because I want to do this
Speaker 3: show so badly. The show is like bring is bringing
Speaker 3: me so much joy. I feel so alive. I feel
Speaker 3: like this is what I'm supposed to be doing, and
Speaker 3: I know I have to get my work done, so
Speaker 3: this is just what we have to do. We just
Speaker 3: have to do it.
Speaker 1: The apple did not find I know what.
Speaker 3: I just what I don't want what. I want my
Speaker 3: children to not get caught up in which I think
Speaker 3: I spent a long time in my life untangling from
Speaker 3: is if you're not excellent at everything, you're somehow failing.
Speaker 3: So you know, for instance, math is challenging from my
Speaker 3: son right now. And he is so brilliant and so
Speaker 3: special and so incredible, but just his his math is
Speaker 3: is harder.
Speaker 1: It's just harder.
Speaker 3: It's harder for both my kids. In fact, that's where
Speaker 3: all of the drama from school lies. It's all math
Speaker 3: for both of them. And oh and he's been practicing
Speaker 3: for this this this test that is for one of
Speaker 3: the schools he's applying to for high school. You're require
Speaker 3: to do this test. And it's been so discouraging and
Speaker 3: so frustrating, and everything in me just wants to scream
Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter, you know. And I
Speaker 3: could shout it till I'm blue in the face. And
Speaker 3: he is still deciding that he's failing, you know. And
Speaker 3: I do that. I do that to my I did
Speaker 3: that to myself growing up to My parents never demanded
Speaker 3: that excellent, that excellence from me. They never did, but
Speaker 3: I did it to myself. And I can see him
Speaker 3: do that to himself, and my daughter does it to herself,
Speaker 3: and we don't. We do not demand that they get
Speaker 3: all a's or anything like that. We just ask that
Speaker 3: they do their best. That's the only thing that we ask.
Speaker 3: But I yeah, I can. I can already feel that
Speaker 3: perfectionism creeping in. I'm not quite sure how to combat
Speaker 3: it because I'm still trying to figure it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you said you've been unraveling that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's been with me. I know. I
Speaker 3: know this that you're going to ask me the question
Speaker 3: about what did I do? What have I done for
Speaker 3: my That's just me choosing me and this relates to
Speaker 3: what my answer for that is going to be. But
Speaker 3: it's very, very very difficult for me to do anything
Speaker 3: in life that isn't achieving something in some way.
Speaker 1: Okay, so break it down.
Speaker 3: No, I love this vulnerability. This is very real.
Speaker 1: People can relate. I can relate.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's so hard. Even if I'm enjoying time with
Speaker 3: my friends, I'm like, this is so good because we
Speaker 3: are forming community that matters and lasts, you.
Speaker 1: Know what I mean.
Speaker 3: There's something productive about being in relationship. You know, I
Speaker 3: can't like cooking release I hate well, you have to eat,
Speaker 3: it's not fun.
Speaker 1: Are you perfect at it? Are you perfectionist?
Speaker 3: When it comes to like, no, I'm not a perfectionist
Speaker 3: at that. My husband mostly cooks and I do the
Speaker 3: cleanup usually, But I don't have to be perfect at everything,
Speaker 3: although I do demand very high quality for my work
Speaker 3: and stuff, for sure. But my issue is that I've
Speaker 3: like people have asked me if I have a hobby.
Speaker 3: I don't have a hobby. I've never had a hobby
Speaker 3: in my life. My hobby when I was growing up
Speaker 3: was acting, and then it became my career, and then
Speaker 3: I remember for many years having seasons of like deep boredom,
Speaker 3: like waiting for the phone to ring, of when am
Speaker 3: I going to get the next audition or get the
Speaker 3: next job or whatever. Now, with my life very full,
Speaker 3: with both work and children and everything, I don't really
Speaker 3: have very much time to breathe most of the time.
Speaker 3: But even if I did, it's very hard for me
Speaker 3: to do something that isn't even reading a book. Even
Speaker 3: reading a book is like, Okay, what am I going
Speaker 3: to learn? How will I expand if I read this book?
Speaker 3: How will I grow? An empathy? And so growing an
Speaker 3: empathy is purposeful, so like there's no just just do
Speaker 3: it because it's fun.
Speaker 1: M h Okay, I'm going to need you to come
Speaker 1: back after the kids leave the nest. Yes, and you're
Speaker 1: in a different phase.
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you about all my hobbies. Oh,
Speaker 3: I'm going to learn how to basket.
Speaker 2: We please, Okay.
Speaker 1: Being a pastor's daughter, I do want to know, though,
Speaker 1: do you think that shaped you? You said your parents
Speaker 1: didn't demand that anything from you. They just wanted you
Speaker 1: to do you and do your best, just like you're
Speaker 1: parenting your kids. But do you think being a pastor's
Speaker 1: daughter it defined you or shaped you in other people's
Speaker 1: eyes or in your own.
Speaker 3: I think what I'm eternally there's two sides of a coin.
Speaker 3: I'm eternally grateful for the faith that they gave me
Speaker 3: I have. I have a true north that doesn't shake it.
Speaker 3: I mean it shakes at times, but it isn't. There's
Speaker 3: never a moment when I don't, like know, beyond a
Speaker 3: shadow of a doubt, that I am beloved by the
Speaker 3: creator of the universe, and that my life is purposeful,
Speaker 3: and that i'm you know, I'm here for a reason
Speaker 3: and everything. When something that's hard happens, it becomes what
Speaker 3: is the what is the lesson? Here? And where? How
Speaker 3: do I move forward and where do I find the
Speaker 3: gold in this like that was given to me one
Speaker 3: by my parents' faith and the way that they live
Speaker 3: their lives and the way they parented me. There is
Speaker 3: also on the other side of it, there is a
Speaker 3: I think, a perfectionism that I that I put on
Speaker 3: myself in a way my brother didn't, And I think
Speaker 3: that might be a female versus male thing maybe, But
Speaker 3: I I took some of the lessons of my faith
Speaker 3: and they became I'm I'm only lovable. I am loved,
Speaker 3: but I'm only lovable because I'm really working my ass
Speaker 3: off to be acceptable to God. My brother didn't get this. Again,
Speaker 3: it's not it wasn't just that wasn't what was spoken
Speaker 3: in the household. It's just the way that I received
Speaker 3: and metabolized what the what I was taught. And so
Speaker 3: I think for me, that understanding of being loved because
Speaker 3: you're loved because you're loved, period and full stop, was
Speaker 3: something I learned in probably my thirties, and I mostly
Speaker 3: learned it because of walking through a dark season with
Speaker 3: my husband where we needed to go to counseling and
Speaker 3: we had to figure some stuff out, and one of
Speaker 3: the biggest lessons I learned in that was that I
Speaker 3: felt kind of like I remember sitting in one of
Speaker 3: my our therapy sessions and saying, I feel like an
Speaker 3: invalid wife, and the therapist is like, what do you
Speaker 3: mean by that? I said, well, I feel like Peter
Speaker 3: didn't know what he was getting himself into when he
Speaker 3: married me, and now that he really knows me, like
Speaker 3: really knows me, really sees me, he's so disappointed, but
Speaker 3: he's too good of Amana walk away. And my husband
Speaker 3: was like, I don't understand why she thinks this. I
Speaker 3: don't believe that. I don't feel this way. I love
Speaker 3: her so much like I And the therapist was like, Sarah,
Speaker 3: you got a liar living in you. It was just
Speaker 3: trying to steal your joy at every single turn, trying
Speaker 3: to tell you you don't deserve love, trying to tell
Speaker 3: you that God doesn't love you, trying to tell you
Speaker 3: that your husband doesn't love you, that nobody out in
Speaker 3: the world loves you unless you're achieving this, this, this,
Speaker 3: and this. You got to tell the liar to shut
Speaker 3: the fuck up.
Speaker 1: Yes, And that was.
Speaker 3: One of the biggest, most explosive moments of release in
Speaker 3: my life being able to name that it wasn't actually
Speaker 3: me that was creating It was just not a voice
Speaker 3: in my head, but it was. It was, well, the
Speaker 3: voice I don't know, the voice of culture. Yes it was.
Speaker 3: It was a voice that I gave way too much
Speaker 3: credence to and couldn't imagine a world where that voice
Speaker 3: wasn't true.
Speaker 1: That voice can be so strong and so loud, and
Speaker 1: so many of us are minds. I know, I've had
Speaker 1: that same struggle, and it's very very hard to sort
Speaker 1: of take the bull by the horns when it comes
Speaker 1: to that voice, because if it's inside your head and
Speaker 1: it's very loud, it's constant, it's very dependable messages. You're like, well,
Speaker 1: then I should it's true, it must be true. Yeah.
Speaker 1: It keeps saying the same thing, and that.
Speaker 3: Voice in some way enables you to have some kind
Speaker 3: of control because if you're if the voice is saying
Speaker 3: you'll be loved if you do this, this and this,
Speaker 3: then you can go, okay, I'll just do that, that
Speaker 3: and that right, and then I'll be loved as long
Speaker 3: as I'm doing that, that and that, you know, and
Speaker 3: when you release that and go, I don't need you
Speaker 3: to give me control of what I really need to
Speaker 3: do is just surrender to the reality that I I
Speaker 3: am just I am a loved being. I am a
Speaker 3: created being, and I am loved full stop. It's but
Speaker 3: then you go, but why, why what did I do?
Speaker 1: When you say, I felt like, well what now?
Speaker 3: I know?
Speaker 1: Well what do I do? I what do I think? Exactly?
Speaker 3: It was for me. It was a few days after that.
Speaker 3: I remember that session so clearly, and I reached out
Speaker 3: to my community of like faith sisters and my parents
Speaker 3: and whatever, and I was like, can you guys just
Speaker 3: pray for me because I don't know how to shut
Speaker 3: up a liar in my head, Like I don't know
Speaker 3: how to stop this joy stealing from joy stealer from
Speaker 3: stealing my joy. I don't know how to do it,
Speaker 3: and I need help. And I do believe there was
Speaker 3: some kind of supernatural intervention because I remember a couple
Speaker 3: days later, I'm sitting at the table and my husband
Speaker 3: walks into the room and he just looks at me.
Speaker 3: It's the morning. He's like, I love you, honey, and
Speaker 3: I swear to you. I felt like chills from my toe.
Speaker 3: It was all the way up my It was like
Speaker 3: heat all the way up my whole body, off the
Speaker 3: top of my head, chills everywhere. And I just looked
Speaker 3: at him and I was like, I believe you. I
Speaker 3: have never fully believed you when you have said that
Speaker 3: to me, And for the first time in my life,
Speaker 3: I believe you. I'm somebody's favorite person. I'm your favorite
Speaker 3: person and that's real and that's true and that just
Speaker 3: is period. And I just burst into tears and there
Speaker 3: was something that just broke and released and let me
Speaker 3: go in that moment, and it, yeah, it transformed. That's
Speaker 3: so much.
Speaker 1: That's so good, almost crying because I feel like that,
Speaker 1: I feel that moment for you, Like how profound that
Speaker 1: must have been. What a breakthrough just in this internal
Speaker 1: like prison that you were in, you know. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: what after that happened? How did you stay the course?
Speaker 1: Because that joy sucker didn't leave forever.
Speaker 3: No, and it does crop back up now and again,
Speaker 3: But I swear to you, from that moment it had,
Speaker 3: it did not have a choke hold on me anymore.
Speaker 3: You were able to say I couldn't see what it was.
Speaker 3: I could say, I don't believe you. You're lying, you're
Speaker 3: a liar, You're a liar. You're not being honest. I'm sorry,
Speaker 3: but you're not. My husband is always his wife was like,
Speaker 3: he's just so wonderful. But I remember early in our
Speaker 3: relationship I wanted him. My parents would always express their
Speaker 3: love through verbal affirmation. In many they express their love
Speaker 3: in lots of different ways, but my parents would always
Speaker 3: be like, I love you because of this, because of this,
Speaker 3: because I look, you did this, and we're so proud
Speaker 3: of you. Because because because right and with my husband,
Speaker 3: he wouldn't give me the laundry list ever, I mean ever,
Speaker 3: he just was always just I just love you. I
Speaker 3: just love being with you, I just love being around you.
Speaker 3: I just I think you're so awesome. I just love you.
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're like.
Speaker 1: But why why, I know? Tell me? Can you just
Speaker 1: tell me why? What is it that you look about me?
Speaker 3: Tell me why? And I remember asking him once, why
Speaker 3: don't you tell me why you love me? And he said,
Speaker 3: because I don't want you to ever feel that my
Speaker 3: love is going to ever go away if for some
Speaker 3: reason you stop being able to do one of those
Speaker 3: things or one of those things that I say, this
Speaker 3: is why I love you. And then what happens if
Speaker 3: I say I love you because I love dancing with you,
Speaker 3: and then you know, you break a leg or you
Speaker 3: can't dance anymore, your hip goes out or whatever, like
Speaker 3: I don't want you to ever have in the back
Speaker 3: of your head. There was a condition to this, and
Speaker 3: it was because he's like, I just want you to
Speaker 3: always know that I love you, so period.
Speaker 1: What that's that's a really I'm so happy for you
Speaker 1: because that I can know. I know how tortures that
Speaker 1: negative liar brain can mind can can control.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, it's still there, but it is not.
Speaker 3: It does not it does not have the choke hold, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I feel I used to feel like, oh God
Speaker 3: loves me, but you know he had his son had
Speaker 3: to die because I suck so bad. It's like kind
Speaker 3: of correct. Yeah, you know that doesn't exist. That thought
Speaker 3: doesn't exist in my head anymore. That used to be
Speaker 3: the thought that I had both prior to so interesting.
Speaker 1: Because I was going to ask you like your faith
Speaker 1: as a younger girl and what you learn from your
Speaker 1: parents and then becoming your own person, your own adult
Speaker 1: which you've said didn't have until your thirties, where you
Speaker 1: actually chose to believe what you chose to believe instead
Speaker 1: of what they chose for you. Even though it was
Speaker 1: similar or yes, maybe even the same.
Speaker 3: It's not it's not exactly the same. I mean, I
Speaker 3: I feel like the biggest transformation for me. I think
Speaker 3: I was in a bit of a really protective bubble,
Speaker 3: and so everything in the world felt pretty black and white,
Speaker 3: like this is correct, and this is incorrect, and and
Speaker 3: I because I just and I was surrounded by people
Speaker 3: of faith all growing up, so I didn't really have
Speaker 3: exposure to other perspectives. And then I enter into Hollywood
Speaker 3: and my whole world of angels into color. I don't
Speaker 3: know why they call it the angels.
Speaker 1: I really don't. Well, they're circling, for sure, circling.
Speaker 3: But they're circling. They're working hard, They're working very hard
Speaker 3: over time. But I do I think that for me
Speaker 3: engaging with a communities of people from every different background,
Speaker 3: every different belief system. I definitely walked into Hollywood feeling
Speaker 3: like I'm here to teach everybody about Jesus. You know,
Speaker 3: that was that was what I thought I was supposed
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 1: And they lined up around the corner.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they really wanted to hear What was amazing
Speaker 3: is that, like right off the bat in my first
Speaker 3: couple of jobs, I was just very clearly sat down,
Speaker 3: not by anyone, because I usually had some semblance attacked,
Speaker 3: but I was sat down emotionally by witnessing. I have
Speaker 3: this one really lovely encounter. I was doing a play
Speaker 3: and I was having an anxiety attack, and I was
Speaker 3: feeling really overwhelmed in this woman who had a very
Speaker 3: different background, had very different like partying habits and things
Speaker 3: like that that I would have, you know, found totally
Speaker 3: scandalous at the time. And I'm like, oh, yes, she
Speaker 3: needs to be saved, you know. She she sat me down.
Speaker 3: She's like, all right, darling, I'm just going to take
Speaker 3: you through a little meditation right now, and I want
Speaker 3: you to close your eyes and I want you to
Speaker 3: breathe deeply. And she walked me through this beautiful meditation
Speaker 3: that involved getting in a boat. They're no oars, you
Speaker 3: put your hands in the boat, you breathe in. You
Speaker 3: know that the river is going to take you where
Speaker 3: the river needs to go. And it's like she was
Speaker 3: speaking truth, God's truth to me in a different language language.
Speaker 3: And I had this It was a total revelatory moment
Speaker 3: where I was like, Oh, I'm here to sit down
Speaker 3: and learn and listen. I'm not here to stand up
Speaker 3: and preach on a box. This is what life is.
Speaker 3: This is the expression of my faith is sitting and
Speaker 3: engaging with a community and learning and seeing God in
Speaker 3: every person's face. That's what I'm supposed to be. It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I want to ask you. There's a couple
Speaker 1: of things I want to ask you. You and your
Speaker 1: husband have adopted or established a no sarcasm rule. Oh yes,
Speaker 1: in your house, and you choose not to speak unkindly
Speaker 1: to one another, so it's a no meanness rule. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but sarcasm as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's funny because now my son and
Speaker 3: I are pretty sarcastic with its fun. It's fun. It
Speaker 3: was a It was kind of one of these little
Speaker 3: nugget like gift nuggets from my husband's mentor who just
Speaker 3: said one of the one of the things that can,
Speaker 3: especially in a long term relationship, that can start to
Speaker 3: dig with It starts as fun and then it can
Speaker 3: start to get more cutting because the the kind of
Speaker 3: humor it is is a little bit cutting to begin with,
Speaker 3: and then as like resentments build that sarcasm. I keep
Speaker 3: thinking about the movie, the about the emotions.
Speaker 1: Oh, inside out, inside out.
Speaker 3: Too, they show sarcasm. It's just this giant crater with
Speaker 3: one person on this side and one person on this side,
Speaker 3: and someone tries to say something and then it turns
Speaker 3: into something else by the time it reaches the other person.
Speaker 3: This is such a great image for how sarcasm can
Speaker 3: kind of get in there and create a giant divide.
Speaker 3: And so we just we were goofy and silly. That's
Speaker 3: how we express our humor with each other in the household.
Speaker 3: But just we don't my husband, I don't use sarcasm
Speaker 3: with one another. We just we were like, that's a
Speaker 3: great idea. I think we'll I think we'll go by that.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about another one of your great choices,
Speaker 1: and that is doing your back on Hallmark for a
Speaker 1: very fun, cozy, but twisty, mysterious Mistletoe Murders. I have
Speaker 1: to talk about this because I want to know what
Speaker 1: made you choose to play Emily Lane.
Speaker 3: It's such a fun show.
Speaker 1: I've heard, yes, I haven't seen it yet.
Speaker 3: Oh, it's so fun. You're going into season we just
Speaker 3: we just aired season two. We're waiting to see if
Speaker 3: we get a pickup for season three. Okay, knocking on all.
Speaker 1: The does it only play around the holidays like it came.
Speaker 3: Out on Hallmark Plus last year the first season did,
Speaker 3: and then they aired season one and season two back
Speaker 3: to back this year on the main home.
Speaker 1: Jill so good.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a really fun I've never done a murder mystery.
Speaker 3: I've never played a sleuth before, so that was really cool.
Speaker 3: The script was really amazing when it came across my desk.
Speaker 3: Was really really, really fantastically crafted mystery. But the thing
Speaker 3: that really made me want to do this is that
Speaker 3: Emily has the secret past life and so she there's
Speaker 3: this duality to her where she's we don't know if
Speaker 3: she's hiding from someone or running from something, or we
Speaker 3: don't know if she was good, we don't know if
Speaker 3: she was missed it. That's the thing. So you have
Speaker 3: every two episodes, there's one murder mystery that gets solved,
Speaker 3: and then there's a really delicious romance with her and it.
Speaker 1: Was always a handsome detective Okay, yes.
Speaker 3: And then the greater overarching mystery over the course of
Speaker 3: both seasons so far has been who is Emily Lane?
Speaker 3: What her backstory? So we play in these flashbacks and
Speaker 3: we get to, especially in season two, kind of tease
Speaker 3: out more of her as a high schooler. And then
Speaker 3: I got to play I got to do like the
Speaker 3: twenty five year old version of Emily.
Speaker 1: That's so fun.
Speaker 3: So it's like it has some alias vibes and soon
Speaker 3: Kamaras vibes. It's really Oh what a really fun like
Speaker 3: fe role like fetal, yeah, strong woman.
Speaker 1: I love that. Does the audience get to kind of
Speaker 1: try to figure out who Emily is? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, who Emily is? And also who the killer is
Speaker 3: for the episode? My kids love the show. They're completely
Speaker 3: obsessed with it. Yeah, and they'll like the whole way
Speaker 3: through they'll be like, I think it's him. Oh no,
Speaker 3: I think it's her. Wow, Actually, hang on, what is
Speaker 3: she doing here?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: It's really fun.
Speaker 1: I know our listeners love to hear like the inside
Speaker 1: tips of the biz. When you step into a new
Speaker 1: role and you have the handsome detective relationship that you
Speaker 1: have to now create this connection and tension and like
Speaker 1: the chemistry has to be right.
Speaker 3: How do you?
Speaker 1: How do you do that? Just such a great question,
Speaker 1: because I for a while I've said I can have
Speaker 1: chemistry with a doorknob. Yeah, if I want to, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you feel the same way.
Speaker 3: I feel exactly the same. Good I really do feel
Speaker 3: exactly the same way. No, I think what I I
Speaker 3: am always on the hunt for loveliness. That is just
Speaker 3: kind of who I am in the world. And if
Speaker 3: I have to create chemistry really quickly with somebody, I
Speaker 3: kind of have this like, like what is lovely and
Speaker 3: delightful about you? So even if they're difficult, or if
Speaker 3: they're not whatever, even if they're things that aren't delightful
Speaker 3: across the board, I can in that moment put the
Speaker 3: blinders on and just focus. I remember, I have a
Speaker 3: very this is a good kind of story about chemistry.
Speaker 3: My first professional show was playing Juliette and Romeo and
Speaker 3: Juliette at this theater outside of New York, Macarter Theater,
Speaker 3: and I remember going into New York to do the callback.
Speaker 3: So I read like balcony scenes with the two different
Speaker 3: Romeos that they had, and I remember getting on the
Speaker 3: subway and I was so kind of high on the
Speaker 3: romance of the scene of like just the heightens the
Speaker 3: ultimate romance ultimate romantic scene right that I got on
Speaker 3: the train and I saw this like old probably seventy
Speaker 3: five year old bearded guy across the way, and I
Speaker 3: was like, if I had to, I could fall in
Speaker 3: love with that guy right now. Like I could do it.
Speaker 3: I could do it because when you when you allow
Speaker 3: your imagination to go fully into this is my real
Speaker 3: set of circumstances, and I truly really am in love
Speaker 3: with this person. When you let your imagination take you there,
Speaker 3: you could You could have chemistry with a trash can.
Speaker 1: You really could you? Just because it's just.
Speaker 3: It's just it's an imagine, it's an imagination exercise, right,
Speaker 3: and then some coasters are just delightfully easy to play with,
Speaker 3: and then others take a little more tiding.
Speaker 1: Yes, we both dealt with that, I'm sure well. Before
Speaker 1: I let you go, Sarah Drew, what was your last
Speaker 1: I Choose me moment?
Speaker 3: Last year, I burned myself out a little bit with
Speaker 3: work writing, producing while also starring on a show, and
Speaker 3: I was so exhausted that by the time November hit,
Speaker 3: I decided to start reading Romanticy.
Speaker 1: What I did not see this Kiming.
Speaker 3: Yes, I got so into Romanticy I basically was supposed
Speaker 3: to be writing all spring all winter and did not.
Speaker 3: I read forty six books. I had to give it
Speaker 3: up for lent, Like I was like, I just need
Speaker 3: to pause because this has taken over my life. But
Speaker 3: I will say I was saying earlier, it's very difficult
Speaker 3: for me to do something that is just just brings
Speaker 3: me joy and delight, that is not accomplishing anything. And
Speaker 3: reading fantasy and romanticy is like such a delightful traps
Speaker 3: into another world. I'm not trying to option anything, turn
Speaker 3: anything into a movie. I'm not trying to grow and
Speaker 3: expand I'm just trying to find delight. And I I
Speaker 3: would say that that was a nice moment of choosing me.
Speaker 3: I love that perfect Thank you so much for being
Speaker 3: with us.
Speaker 1: I love Debbie here